Woj:San Antonio's Tim Duncan exercises player option [Archive] - Page 2

Chinook

06-29-2016, 01:19 AM

Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) - so let's assume a few things:

1. Tim either plays or retires but gets paid and not stretched (so his money counts this year against cap only is what I'm saying)

2. Boris (or anyone not traded)

3. Spurs simply waive Simmons and renounce all others that they can cap holds (the entire list)

Where does that leave the Spurs salary wise including roster charges?

My math has that at about 82M total salaries/roster charges? That would give SA 12M in cap space (roughly) and the following players:

LMA
Kawhi
Danny
Tim
TP
Boris
Kyle
Mills

But no: Simmons, Boban, Bonner, Manu, Miller, West, Martin, LJC, Milu or Murray.

Obviously doesn't seem likely, but sound accurate? If they can trade Boris, that gets them to about 19M in cap space still, but still having to replace all the players they renounced. Which we know they have talked about bringing in Bertans, keeping Boban, obviously brining back Manu, etc..

Seems like no cap space is the route.

Yeah, you're right that the team would have $11,752,957 before trying to move Diaw. Obviously you keep Simmons in that case, as his salary is more useful as a trade piece and as cap space. But anyway, there are a lot of holes to fill going that route. Don't forget that being able to use the room exception would save some more money. In the very least, it would save Bertans' salary from counting against the cap.

Kawhitstorm

06-29-2016, 01:20 AM

Come on dude, why we fightin? I din't expect anything. Just pointing out that the series was actually pretty close even with the Spurs playing like crap and the Thunder playing out of their skins.

The Spurs matchup w/ OKC b/c of Kawhi/Danny which was why I was saying I rather have the Spurs play OKC than the Cripples but that was under the assumption Tim wasn't shot & Pop didn't play the Turd Towers.:lol

The Spurs were the better team with a healthy Tim just like the Duds were the better team w/ a healthy Curry, the issue now is that Tim's knee is shot while Curry can just rehab & regain his form.

raybies

06-29-2016, 01:21 AM

I guess I should also note that the Spurs can use use cap space this summer, especially if they commit to using the room exception on Manu if he returns. They'll have $10,534,634 at least in space going into the summer. That's enough to sign a decent piece (and then to make further trades with cap space), but it's also enough to match Boban, sign Bertans and still have $3-6 Million to use on someone else -- while keeping Manu's old contract slot open. Obviously, you'd like to know about Manu ASAP, because the Spurs could get even more cap space if they push Boban over to the room exception (about $9 Million), enough to bring in a decent free agent even with the cap rising.

Let's look at one scenario:

Tim is retiring and intends to keep at least some of the money on his option. Manu has also decided that he's not coming back. The team intends to bring over LJC and keep Murray in the States. (Note: They tendered Boban here, but they aren't going to use his QO unless he signs it, so I'm leaving him out for this first bit.)

The Spurs' rotation looks like this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson,
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Duncan (contract), roster charge

They have $10,534,634 in space plus the room exception.

They also intend to sign Bertans on a three-year deal conveniently totaling $4,947,359. That give the Spurs exactly $9.5 Million to offer to Gasol. Then you sign Boban to the room exception to get this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic

(Don't worry about Arcidiacono right now. I would assume the team will ink him after all this is done.)

So they have Duncan's contract and potentially Diaw's and Patty's waiting in the wings. The obvious goal here is to pursue a two-guard with that contract. The exact amount of Tim's option is still up for debate. I have been considering it $5,643,750, which would mean the Spurs could take back up to $8,565,625 in return salary. That would be enough to get Lou Williams, Jodie Meeks, Jeremy Lamb or an Eric Gordon S&T. Combine him with Mills, and you get into Monta Ellis and Brandon Knight territory (up to $13,934,047). Let's just say Gordon because I've been saying him. Then you round out the roster with one or two min players. I'm going to say Lorbek here (since he's probably the most balanced option), but it could obviously be a guy like Cady or a ring-chaser like Scola.

So that leaves this roster minus camp contracts:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Gordon, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic, Lorbek

I like it. I don't think the defense would be particularly close to as good as it was this year. But the offense should be steadier. I don't love the bench, as it would rely on Anderson being the primary play-maker from the worse position in the game to run an offense. I'd like it a lot more with a faster center and more shooting from the front court. But I think it's pretty good for a transitional year. No one can say it's too small, but I'd like more from the guards still. Shooting wouldn't be an issue anymore. Adding Mills and getting Knight would be more ideal, so long as the team could get a steady PG for the min from somewhere (Europe?). Anderson moving to the four would also help if Diaw can be moved for something.

My prediction is that Duncan retires and Manu plays one more year.

RuffnReadyOzStyle

06-29-2016, 01:22 AM

None of this makes any sense at all to justify Carter-Williams.

Also, Plumlee sucks. Period. Sucks. Sucks so bad that he could barely get run with a shit team in Milwaukee.

He's a white Jeff Ayres.

What about my MCW comments doesn't make sense? That he's long and athletic and still young enough to improve? That he's cheap enough for us to trade for without giving up much? Or don't you think the Spurs' development culture can improve young players?

I don't really care about Plumlee - he's just filler until 2017. But at least he can pnr and dunk the ball.

Kawhitstorm

06-29-2016, 01:23 AM

...after Waiters shoved Manu who had stepped inbounds... :lmao

Waiters shoved Manu AFTER Kawhi grabbed WestBrick to prevent him from getting the inbound pass almost causing a 5 second violation.

Chinook

06-29-2016, 01:28 AM

My prediction is that Duncan retires and Manu plays one more year.

I think they're both back at this point. Duncan just doesn't seem like the type of person who will take millions to not play. If they are both back, then that second step in my post is much easier. You just keep Duncan, let Boban walk and re-sign Manu with the room exception. After that, you don't need to worry about a getting another two-guard until 2017, so there's no trade. Roster would look like this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Manu, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Duncan (or flipped; I don't care), Lorbek (though Cady makes a lot more sense than before with the center rotation being older)

Kawhitstorm

06-29-2016, 01:29 AM

Ya - this move with Tim/Boris is certainly a sign that SA does not believe they can get KD this year (maybe they think he won't leave until next year no matter what) or at all.

It makes no sense for Durant to leave OKC this summer since every team has uncertainties:

-Duds: Curry's injury / dumping rotations players / Enemy #1

-Spurs: No bench / worst starting PG on a contender / geriatric center

.......the rest of the suitors would be significantly worse than OKC

Chinook

06-29-2016, 01:30 AM

What about my MCW comments doesn't make sense? That he's long and athletic and still young enough to improve? That he's cheap enough for us to trade for without giving up much? Or don't you think the Spurs' development culture can improve young players?

I don't really care about Plumlee - he's just filler until 2017. But at least he can pnr and dunk the ball.

A Mills and Simmons for MCW and Plumlee trade could work salary-wise. But I think the bench would struggle to score.

T Park

06-29-2016, 01:31 AM

What about my MCW comments doesn't make sense? That he's long and athletic and still young enough to improve? That he's cheap enough for us to trade for without giving up much? Or don't you think the Spurs' development culture can improve young players?

I don't really care about Plumlee - he's just filler until 2017. But at least he can pnr and dunk the ball.

If you want to Don Quioxte over a JAG. Whatever, but don't tell me he's the next Shawn Livingston.

T Park

06-29-2016, 01:32 AM

A Mills and Simmons for MCW and Plumlee trade could work salary-wise. But I think the bench would struggle to score.

If RC did that trade I'd personally go to the Spurs offices to give RC a BAT.

Joseph Kony

06-29-2016, 01:32 AM

I guess I should also note that the Spurs can use use cap space this summer, especially if they commit to using the room exception on Manu if he returns. They'll have $10,534,634 at least in space going into the summer. That's enough to sign a decent piece (and then to make further trades with cap space), but it's also enough to match Boban, sign Bertans and still have $3-6 Million to use on someone else -- while keeping Manu's old contract slot open. Obviously, you'd like to know about Manu ASAP, because the Spurs could get even more cap space if they push Boban over to the room exception (about $9 Million), enough to bring in a decent free agent even with the cap rising.

Let's look at one scenario:

Tim is retiring and intends to keep at least some of the money on his option. Manu has also decided that he's not coming back. The team intends to bring over LJC and keep Murray in the States. (Note: They tendered Boban here, but they aren't going to use his QO unless he signs it, so I'm leaving him out for this first bit.)

The Spurs' rotation looks like this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson,
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Duncan (contract), roster charge

They have $10,534,634 in space plus the room exception.

They also intend to sign Bertans on a three-year deal conveniently totaling $4,947,359. That give the Spurs exactly $9.5 Million to offer to Gasol. Then you sign Boban to the room exception to get this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic

(Don't worry about Arcidiacono right now. I would assume the team will ink him after all this is done.)

So they have Duncan's contract and potentially Diaw's and Patty's waiting in the wings. The obvious goal here is to pursue a two-guard with that contract. The exact amount of Tim's option is still up for debate. I have been considering it $5,643,750, which would mean the Spurs could take back up to $8,565,625 in return salary. That would be enough to get Lou Williams, Jodie Meeks, Jeremy Lamb or an Eric Gordon S&T. Combine him with Mills, and you get into Monta Ellis and Brandon Knight territory (up to $13,934,047). Let's just say Gordon because I've been saying him. Then you round out the roster with one or two min players. I'm going to say Lorbek here (since he's probably the most balanced option), but it could obviously be a guy like Cady or a ring-chaser like Scola.

So that leaves this roster minus camp contracts:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Gordon, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic, Lorbek

I like it. I don't think the defense would be particularly close to as good as it was this year. But the offense should be steadier. I don't love the bench, as it would rely on Anderson being the primary play-maker from the worse position in the game to run an offense. I'd like it a lot more with a faster center and more shooting from the front court. But I think it's pretty good for a transitional year. No one can say it's too small, but I'd like more from the guards still. Shooting wouldn't be an issue anymore. Adding Mills and getting Knight would be more ideal, so long as the team could get a steady PG for the min from somewhere (Europe?). Anderson moving to the four would also help if Diaw can be moved for something.

:tu

Nice write up but it only makes me hope even more that Manu and Tim come back for another year. Green/Gordon/Simmons at SG and basically only Gasol/Boban at C are worrisome

T Park

06-29-2016, 01:32 AM

Waiters shoved Manu AFTER Kawhi grabbed WestBrick to prevent him from getting the inbound pass almost causing a 5 second violation.

He didn't but hey, keep huffing that DuPont buddy

RuffnReadyOzStyle

06-29-2016, 01:32 AM

A Mills and Simmons for MCW and Plumlee trade could work salary-wise. But I think the bench would struggle to score.

I checked the trade machine - Mills for MCW and Plumlee works.

You may be right. I'm just fascinated to see what the Spurs could make out of MCW given what they did with TP's jumper, Danny's game, Kawhi, etc.

Joseph Kony

06-29-2016, 01:34 AM

Sucks though, it makes you think, if the Spurs miss on any real solid FAs, they will be relying heavily on Leonard improving again, Green finding his stroke again, Anderson stepping up, and 3 rookies providing solid minutes off the bench :depressed

Chinook

06-29-2016, 01:35 AM

I checked the trade machine - Mills for MCW and Plumlee works.

You may be right. I'm just fascinated to see what the Spurs could make out of MCW given what they did with TP's jumper, Danny's game, Kawhi, etc.

Those are last year's salaries. Plumlee is a free agent, and you have to factor in a decent raise for him.

Kawhitstorm

06-29-2016, 01:45 AM

He didn't but hey, keep huffing that DuPont buddy

Video evidence says otherwise::lol

tFiQeDJreq0

Kawhi is tugging on WestBrick's jersey in the backcourt at the start of the clip & he's hanging on for dear life in front of the ref as Waiters elbows Manu but the ref somehow missed BOTH plays.:lol

spurs10

06-29-2016, 01:49 AM

Yeah, Matt Bonner will be our big free agent signing. :pop: He is well rested!

BG_Spurs_Fan

06-29-2016, 01:53 AM

Really hope this means Duncan is actually playing next season, which would likely sway Manu's decision too. The Spurs will have some cap room to be creative in trades and would be able to bring back Boban and every stashed player they'd like. If they bring back Boban and Simmons and sign 3 rookies in Bertans, Murray and LJC there will be plenty of development talent to work with, especially if they leave the 15th spot open this time for another potention project. A lot of work for the coaches there.

They can then totally avoid the FA madness that's incoming and look to trade for a solid vet on an expiring, pay Manu and look forward to 2017. Obviously the meeting with Durant will be about next summer, not this one. They'd be a semi- contender, would still likely win 50 or so games and we'll get to watch Tim and Manu's last seasons, Kawhi's continued improvement and a lot of new players developing, with the eyes set on potentially a big splash next summer. I'm totally on board with this.

SAGirl

06-29-2016, 01:55 AM

Tim is out there recruiting & I doubt he opts-in just to for the retirement money.:lol

I feel like PATFO are setting up for 2017 thus don't want any long term contracts on the book which means asking players to pick up their options & guaranteeing contracts for next season. Boban is the only player I could see walking since there is some dumb GM that's going to offer him 4yr/40 million.:lol (Roy Hibbert::wow)
I hope you are right! I would much rather have Tim than not have him, specifically with the amount of rookies the Spurs will have. I hope we do pick up Milutinov so he can learn from Timmy and relieve him through the season so he can keep those knees healthy.

Like someone said above, I also don't see the Spurs treading Diaw or Mills. Again too many rookies and new players and Pop will be ever so reluctant with rookies. They will get ready this season to be the depth we will need in 2017.

SAGirl

06-29-2016, 01:56 AM

The league is going small kiddo.
D west cannot guard a single perimeter player.

SAGirl

06-29-2016, 02:03 AM

The point is that David West isn't nearly as bad as many people here make him out to be. He's still a solid big, especially on a minimum deal.

The problem is that pairing him with Diaw and expecting him to play center isn't a good strategy. But endlessly criticizing West for the Spurs putting him in that situation seems strange. And besides, like TPark said, West was solid all season long. He was shitty against OKC, but so was 3/4 of the team. Just seems weird to me how critical some people here are of West.
Endlessly criticizing Spurs seems to be the focus on this board, but anyways, D west opted out. I don't think he will take another minimum deal to play back up center. It wasn't an ideal situation for neither player nor team. We already have PF covered with LMA/Diaw/LJC. So if he comes back there is no doubt he would be center again and not in a minimum deal. I will pass on that.

RuffnReadyOzStyle

06-29-2016, 02:36 AM

Those are last year's salaries. Plumlee is a free agent, and you have to factor in a decent raise for him.

Ah, of course. Thanks. :tu

Mel_13

06-29-2016, 02:41 AM

I guess I should also note that the Spurs can use use cap space this summer, especially if they commit to using the room exception on Manu if he returns. They'll have $10,534,634 at least in space going into the summer. That's enough to sign a decent piece (and then to make further trades with cap space), but it's also enough to match Boban, sign Bertans and still have $3-6 Million to use on someone else -- while keeping Manu's old contract slot open. Obviously, you'd like to know about Manu ASAP, because the Spurs could get even more cap space if they push Boban over to the room exception (about $9 Million), enough to bring in a decent free agent even with the cap rising.

Let's look at one scenario:

Tim is retiring and intends to keep at least some of the money on his option. Manu has also decided that he's not coming back. The team intends to bring over LJC and keep Murray in the States. (Note: They tendered Boban here, but they aren't going to use his QO unless he signs it, so I'm leaving him out for this first bit.)

The Spurs' rotation looks like this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson,
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Duncan (contract), roster charge

They have $10,534,634 in space plus the room exception.

They also intend to sign Bertans on a three-year deal conveniently totaling $4,947,359. That give the Spurs exactly $9.5 Million to offer to Gasol. Then you sign Boban to the room exception to get this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic

(Don't worry about Arcidiacono right now. I would assume the team will ink him after all this is done.)

So they have Duncan's contract and potentially Diaw's and Patty's waiting in the wings. The obvious goal here is to pursue a two-guard with that contract. The exact amount of Tim's option is still up for debate. I have been considering it $5,643,750, which would mean the Spurs could take back up to $8,565,625 in return salary. That would be enough to get Lou Williams, Jodie Meeks, Jeremy Lamb or an Eric Gordon S&T. Combine him with Mills, and you get into Monta Ellis and Brandon Knight territory (up to $13,934,047). Let's just say Gordon because I've been saying him. Then you round out the roster with one or two min players. I'm going to say Lorbek here (since he's probably the most balanced option), but it could obviously be a guy like Cady or a ring-chaser like Scola.

So that leaves this roster minus camp contracts:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Gordon, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic, Lorbek

I like it. I don't think the defense would be particularly close to as good as it was this year. But the offense should be steadier. I don't love the bench, as it would rely on Anderson being the primary play-maker from the worse position in the game to run an offense. I'd like it a lot more with a faster center and more shooting from the front court. But I think it's pretty good for a transitional year. No one can say it's too small, but I'd like more from the guards still. Shooting wouldn't be an issue anymore. Adding Mills and getting Knight would be more ideal, so long as the team could get a steady PG for the min from somewhere (Europe?). Anderson moving to the four would also help if Diaw can be moved for something.

:tu

Thanks for the detailed post and the plausible scenarios.

The only point I see as a problem is the notion that the room exception will be enough to retain Boban. The economics this summer make it very likely that he'll get considerably more than that. If the Spurs do sign a Gasol-level FA this summer, I don't believe they'll be able to keep Boban.

SAGirl

06-29-2016, 02:52 AM

I just wonder how Kawhi/LMA feel about this if indeed SA doesn't improve and brings back the same squad but with several rookies?

I think if healthy (big if with TP/Manu/TD) SA is still a damn good team with the LMA/KL/DG core anchoring, but I can see that core being upset at the thought of wasting another year knowing they might not be good enough? Could create some problems.

SA front office in a weird spot right now with the old guard and doing right by them and the future. Luckily SA was damn good last year so people may think just some minor improvements (a young bench guy having a breakout year, KL getting better, Danny bouncing back, etc..) get SA to the top.
Any improvement has to come from the youngest players. Ppl trolled my thread but Kawhi and Kyle were our most improved players and were 24 and 22 yrs old. Our upside resides there. Guys that age are not done getting better, specially guys who Pop has been bringing along into roles slowly, putting more into their plate each year.

After that you look at Simmons and Boban. They can both score. The issue is can they defend? Time to find that out. Finally, Bertans can shoot the lights out. If we need more offense these are the guys you have to look at.

Veterans have to be ready to give way to the younger guys who get better if they earn it and hopefully they do, or some of them do at least.

Chinook

06-29-2016, 03:04 AM

:tu

Thanks for the detailed post and the plausible scenarios.

The only point I see as a problem is the notion that the room exception will be enough to retain Boban. The economics this summer make it very likely that he'll get considerably more than that. If the Spurs do sign a Gasol-level FA this summer, I don't believe they'll be able to keep Boban.

I don't think the Spurs will sit back and let other teams dictate Boban's salary. They can and should offer him a deal early on so that the pressure is on him to have something in places prior to the international games. I know he opted out, but his quotes make it seem like he's going to cave to the criticism. I think offering him a one-plus-one deal at the room exception and a solid rotation spot will get him to sign without testing free agency.

Mel_13

06-29-2016, 03:11 AM

I don't think the Spurs will sit back and let other teams dictate Boban's salary. They can and should offer him a deal early on so that the pressure is on him to have something in places prior to the international games. I know he opted out, but his quotes make it seem like he's going to cave to the criticism. I think offering him a one-plus-one deal at the room exception and a solid rotation spot will get him to sign without testing free agency.

That is how the Spurs operate, but we'll have to agree to disagree on the amount it will take to retain Boban's services.

Chinook

06-29-2016, 03:16 AM

That is how the Spurs operate, but we'll have to agree to disagree on the amount it will take to retain Boban's services.

I've heard Asik-like offers from fans of other teams ($40M/3). Would be crazy. I don't think the Spurs would do more than the full MLE.

Mel_13

06-29-2016, 03:19 AM

I've heard Asik-like offers from fans of other teams. Would be crazy.

It would be crazy, but there's so much money chasing so little talent. We're going to be updating the list of worst contracts ever over and over again this summer.

jiggy_55

06-29-2016, 03:25 AM

I keep seeing random mention of Duncan's option as $6.4 million, while all along it is understood to be around $5.6 million. Most articles state the 5.6M figure but there are also quite a few mentions on this 6.4M figure (especially through some senior NBA reporters on Twitter). Weird that more than one writer/reporter would make such a mistake...

SAGirl

06-29-2016, 03:33 AM

My prediction is that Duncan retires and Manu plays one more year.
I'll bring on the hate train on myself bc you can't say anything without some guys flying off the handle saying I am hating on legends I admire, but we need Tim more than Manu.

objective

06-29-2016, 03:55 AM

Ditty

06-29-2016, 03:56 AM

At little off topic, but this is turning into the offseason thread a little bit. I hate the freaking Warriors, but I think the Spurs should build their team/bench one quality player at a time like the Warriors, especially be luckily set at three starting positions for the next three seasons (Aldridge,Leonard,Green) if they don't land Durant or Horford. I'm not getting into the salaries, but of course getting rid of Diaw and Mills would free us over $10 million if we take back nothing. I think this is the perfect offseason to go after a backup, and small ball four for years to come and also transition Kyle Anderson to the backup point guard and see if that's somewhere that's more comfortable for him and could play that at the NBA level.This roster I would be happy with to role with next season, and addresses some of our needs. Another component big (Gasol), or another year of Boban or bring over Milutinov. Another shooter (Bertans), and Slashers/Shooters (Marvin Williams/Batum/Deng) or Bazemore who could be a small ball three and has shown the ability to create for his teammates and himself.

Gasol/Duncan/(Boban or Milutinov)
Aldridge/West/(Jean-Charles or Milutinov)
Leonard/(One of Marvin Williams/Batum/Deng/Bazemore)/Bertans
Green/Ginobili/Simmons
Parker/Anderson/Murray

SAGirl

06-29-2016, 04:00 AM

jiggy_55

06-29-2016, 04:15 AM

I think there were performance bonuses attached that he's owed, like number of games won.
So if the actual figure could be 6.4M, why are most just reporting the basic figure of 5.6M?

r0drig0lac

06-29-2016, 06:23 AM

many hypotheses, but Duncan and PATFO are always working together and certainly have a plan with him opting in, even if the plan is that he play another year (lmao Duncan unsure)

kaji157

06-29-2016, 08:14 AM

bigfan

06-29-2016, 08:56 AM

Duncan, Manu and Parker can be Spurs until they want out, they earned it.

Seventyniner

06-29-2016, 10:04 AM

It would be crazy, but there's so much money chasing so little talent. We're going to be updating the list of worst contracts ever over and over again this summer.

That or we need to rethink what a bad contract actually is. It was pretty hard to give out a bad one last summer given the cap spikes this and next year.

SpursforSix

06-29-2016, 10:08 AM

D west cannot guard a single perimeter player.

He could probably guard Bonner.

Chinook

06-29-2016, 10:08 AM

That or we need to rethink what a bad contract actually is. It was pretty hard to give out a bad one last summer given the cap spikes this and next year.

Look at what Charlotte did. They gave Lamb a new contract and then eight months later offered a first-rounder for someone to take it off their ledger. And I bet that NO REALLY wishes Asik were on another team right now. What I think is hard is for good players to be on bad contracts. But bad players will still be able to sign bad contracts.

TheGreatYacht

06-29-2016, 10:12 AM

Tim Duncan can do whatever he wants at this point, he and Ginobili have been playing at a discount rate for years now.
It is clear that he feels that another discount is not needed from him while "head of the snake" is sitting on 30 million bucks when he should have also been on a discount rate.
This makes me think that is very unlikely that Manu returns to play for the minimum.
Manure was making Tony Parker money in 2013 when 8 turnovers happened.

Quit acting like he's earned <5M for his career lmao

:cry "he sacrificed, he can do whatever he wants" :cry

spurraider21

06-29-2016, 10:16 AM

He could probably guard Bonner.
Or Parker

TheGoldStandard

06-29-2016, 10:24 AM

Or Parker

a big enough folding chair could guard parker.. just imagine him trying to probe around a beach chair..

SpursforSix

06-29-2016, 10:25 AM

a big enough folding chair could guard parker.. just imagine him trying to probe around a beach chair..

I'd rather have a waffle guard Tony. It'd be cheaper and easier to transport.

TheGoldStandard

06-29-2016, 10:30 AM

I'd rather have a waffle guard Tony. It'd be cheaper and easier to transport.

He'd eat it 4 seconds into the shot clock.. which leaves him 20 seconds to dribble..

spurs10

06-29-2016, 10:36 AM

I'm sure Tim and the team have a plan and we will soon know what it is. Part of that plan is for him to get paid some money. I think both Tim and Manu return and their sights are on Gasol.

ceperez

06-29-2016, 10:38 AM

D west cannot guard a single perimeter player.

Exactly! I liked his efficiency in offense but honestly, he players know they can drive past him!

SpursforSix

06-29-2016, 10:57 AM

He'd eat it 4 seconds into the shot clock.. which leaves him 20 seconds to dribble..

LOL. I was thinking that the waffle would move around so he'd have to keep chasing it. But I guess a robot waffle is unrealistic.

cd021

06-29-2016, 11:07 AM

Endlessly criticizing Spurs seems to be the focus on this board, but anyways, D west opted out. I don't think he will take another minimum deal to play back up center. It wasn't an ideal situation for neither player nor team. We already have PF covered with LMA/Diaw/LJC. So if he comes back there is no doubt he would be center again and not in a minimum deal. I will pass on that.

tend to agree but he was excellent last regular season. Based on Net Rtg, win share per 48, and P.E.R he was the 3rd best Spur last season (4th including Boban) I would like him back but Spurs should. I would hate to see him go.

DPG21920

06-29-2016, 11:13 AM

It would be crazy, but there's so much money chasing so little talent. We're going to be updating the list of worst contracts ever over and over again this summer.

First off: good to see you again :tu

Secondly: I agree. I'm done making assumptions. I'm not one for semantics usually and I'm all about making educated guesses but we are in uncharted waters and as we learned with all the stuff that doesn't seem logical (yet) things are going on that we are just missing. That plus the market has not been set yet. We literally have no baseline now and old baselines are rendered mostly useless.

DPG21920

06-29-2016, 11:17 AM

Does Milutinov count towards the cap at his rookie number until they cosign a letter that he'll stay overseas? I think that's the ticket.

What I'm wondering is if the Spurs decide to operate as an above the cap team, not renouncing exceptions & such, does that mean they can still sign Milutinov to a rookie deal without having to dip into an exception? Does he just equal a first round pick like any over the cap team that might have two firsts (just subbing in Milutinov and Murray for this scenario)?

It's really a formality with regards to his cap hold unless he tries to force his way over. But the waiting for the letter part is true but should not be an obstacle with the moratorium period.

To your 2nd part, that is correct from my understanding.

timtonymanu

06-29-2016, 11:20 AM

Chinook

06-29-2016, 11:30 AM

Does Milutinov count towards the cap at his rookie number until they cosign a letter that he'll stay overseas? I think that's the ticket.

Forgot to answer this. He doesn't. Apparently that hold is gone as long as the player is under contract with another team. Now, I don't know how the league views a player securing a late buyout so his NBA team can use cap space and THEN get his exception. But that's how it work in general.

JuneJive

06-29-2016, 11:41 AM

It's all a guessing game right now.

But as it stands, it's pretty clear PATFO has some insight into Durant's decision.

Tim wouldn't "get in the way" if they thought Durant might be coming over.

Seventyniner

06-29-2016, 12:34 PM

Look at what Charlotte did. They gave Lamb a new contract and then eight months later offered a first-rounder for someone to take it off their ledger. And I bet that NO REALLY wishes Asik were on another team right now. What I think is hard is for good players to be on bad contracts. But bad players will still be able to sign bad contracts.

Fair enough. The rising cap masks some of the pain, I guess. But we're going to have a league chock full of capped-out teams with terrible contracts again in one or two years, just like old times.

-21-

06-29-2016, 12:55 PM

I'm so confused right now. I guess at this point my hope is that he comes back.

Sean Cagney

06-29-2016, 01:02 PM

It's all a guessing game right now.

But as it stands, it's pretty clear PATFO has some insight into Durant's decision.

Tim wouldn't "get in the way" if they thought Durant might be coming over.

^^^^ This, plus saying they will retain Diaw in all probability. That shows me right there he is not coming, as if most of us didn't know already. I see him back in OKC.

DPG21920

06-29-2016, 02:43 PM

I think they're both back at this point. Duncan just doesn't seem like the type of person who will take millions to not play. If they are both back, then that second step in my post is much easier. You just keep Duncan, let Boban walk and re-sign Manu with the room exception. After that, you don't need to worry about a getting another two-guard until 2017, so there's no trade. Roster would look like this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Manu, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Duncan (or flipped; I don't care), Lorbek (though Cady makes a lot more sense than before with the center rotation being older)

So now you think he stays? I thought originally you thought a 1+1 and him exercising the option meant he was gone. If he's playing how on Earth does it make sense to opt in?

TheGoldStandard

06-29-2016, 02:44 PM

So now you think he stays? I thought originally you thought a 1+1 and him exercising the option meant he was gone. If he's playing how on Earth does it make sense to opt in?

He's tired of Danny, Boris and Patty and thought this was the passive aggressive way to get rid of them?

r0drig0lac

06-29-2016, 03:01 PM

He's tired of Danny, Boris and Patty and thought this was the passive aggressive way to get rid of them?

fair

lefty

06-29-2016, 03:03 PM

For fuck sake, just retire already

NASpurs

06-29-2016, 03:04 PM

748244364963393536

cjw

06-29-2016, 03:10 PM

748244364963393536

I guess if he had opted out, he still would have gotten that bonus and the $750k would have been dead money?

Chinook

06-29-2016, 03:10 PM

So now you think he stays? I thought originally you thought a 1+1 and him exercising the option meant he was gone. If he's playing how on Earth does it make sense to opt in?

I think he's going to change his mind. It's one thing to intend to retire in a year. It's another thing to actually do it. As the off-season goes on, I think the open invitation he has from his contract will get to him. Retirement is forever.

Chinook

06-29-2016, 03:11 PM

I guess if he had opted out, he still would have gotten that bonus and the $750k would have been dead money?

Nah. He got $750k extra last season, too. His cap number was $6 Million.

SASdynasty!

06-29-2016, 03:24 PM

Tim Duncan can do whatever he wants at this point, he and Ginobili have been playing at a discount rate for years now.
It is clear that he feels that another discount is not needed from him while "head of the snake" is sitting on 30 million bucks when he should have also been on a discount rate.
This makes me think that is very unlikely that Manu returns to play for the minimum.
When Parker's production drops to Tim/Manu level, he can take a paycut.

SupremeGuy

06-29-2016, 03:56 PM

One more year :cry

DPG21920

06-29-2016, 04:01 PM

I think he's going to change his mind. It's one thing to intend to retire in a year. It's another thing to actually do it. As the off-season goes on, I think the open invitation he has from his contract will get to him. Retirement is forever.

You can retire and come back :)

But man, if he plays don't you think he's going to regret opting in vs giving the team an easier path to flexibility and losing out on some money (if he signed another 1+1, then retired next year)?

Budkin

06-29-2016, 04:01 PM

So he's a white, better version of Malik Rose?

Damn, hating on Malik? He did the dirty work for us for years. Was pretty big during our 2003 run especially.

Chinook

06-29-2016, 04:03 PM

You can retire and come back :)

But man, if he plays don't you think he's going to regret opting in vs giving the team an easier path to flexibility and losing out on some money (if he signed another 1+1, then retired next year)?

I don't think he will. What he might regret is losing a teammate because the team needs the money. If provided they stay within their means and Durant chooses someone besides SA for non-cap reasons, I don't think he'd care.

DPG21920

06-29-2016, 04:09 PM

I don't think he will. What he might regret is losing a teammate because the team needs the money. If provided they stay within their means and Durant chooses someone besides SA for non-cap reasons, I don't think he'd care.

Perhaps you are correct - but man, it just seems like opting in was the worst decision if he's playing (that does not make it a terrible decision, just the worst of the options IMO).

TheGoldStandard

06-29-2016, 04:16 PM

Perhaps you are correct - but man, it just seems like opting in was the worst decision if he's playing (that does not make it a terrible decision, just the worst of the options IMO).

Maybe, just maybe the FO isn't that smart

DPG21920

06-29-2016, 04:26 PM

Maybe, just maybe the FO isn't that smart

Was not the FO choice. I think Tim is truly waffling and the only way to get his money in the event he does retire was to opt in.

I think he knew that if he ended up playing the decision was questionable but that was an acceptable risk with him truly undecided.

I think after seeing RC's comments, no one really actually knows what Tim is doing.

TheGoldStandard

06-29-2016, 04:32 PM

Was not the FO choice. I think Tim is truly waffling and the only way to get his money in the event he does retire was to opt in.

I think he knew that if he ended up playing the decision was questionable but that was an acceptable risk with him truly undecided.

I think after seeing RC's comments, no one really actually knows what Tim is doing.

Perhaps but it's not like the Front Office wouldn't assure Tim that he would get compensated regardless.. As you've outlined in some of your posts there were ways that the Spurs could have compensated him regardless if he chose to play or not after they locked up potential FA to improve the roster.

I know a lot of people are okay with striking out this offseason and gearing up for next year but that influx of cap money will make next years deals even worse and expectations for questionable talent still getting paid a huge amount. With some flexibility this offseason the Spurs could have at the very least addressed some bench issues with better than next seasons salary expectations.

Chinook

06-29-2016, 04:33 PM

Perhaps you are correct - but man, it just seems like opting in was the worst decision if he's playing (that does not make it a terrible decision, just the worst of the options IMO).

He and Manu are in the same position, faced with the same choice and picked opposite roads. Yet neither knows where they will end up. I think Tim is following through with the plan, but I don't think he'll be able to finish it. Manu, I think, wants a pay raise if he comes back.

DPG21920

06-29-2016, 04:43 PM

Perhaps but it's not like the Front Office wouldn't assure Tim that he would get compensated regardless.. As you've outlined in some of your posts there were ways that the Spurs could have compensated him regardless if he chose to play or not after they locked up potential FA to improve the roster.

I know a lot of people are okay with striking out this offseason and gearing up for next year but that influx of cap money will make next years deals even worse and expectations for questionable talent still getting paid a huge amount. With some flexibility this offseason the Spurs could have at the very least addressed some bench issues with better than next seasons salary expectations.

The only difference is paying Tim outside of his actual contract is circumvention (him opting out, retiring, then getting paid 5M to "coach"). I can see Tim/SA having a problem with that even if NBA could not do much.

BillMc

06-29-2016, 05:08 PM

I think after seeing RC's comments, no one really actually knows what Tim is doing.

What were RC's comments? I didn't see it in the thread. Were they posted?

TD 21

06-29-2016, 05:19 PM

Interesting. As expected, he appears to be torn between desperately wanting to play and the reality that he just might not be able to physically do it anymore, at least not at a level that's satisfactory to him.

I don't think this really changes anything roster wise though. When it's all said and done, I still think it'll be as follows . . .

Aldridge/Diaw/Jean-Charles
Leonard/Anderson/Bertans
Duncan or Gasol/Marjanovic/Lorbek?
Green/Ginobili/Simmons
Parker/Mills/Murray

Significant change is far more likely next season. Whether Duncan returns or not, it'll almost certainly be his and Ginobili's last, while Diaw and Mills will be up and they'll have had another year to determine where the younger players fit in.

DPG21920

06-29-2016, 05:26 PM

What were RC's comments? I didn't see it in the thread. Were they posted?

I don't think they were posted - just read a snippet from Jeff McDonald's article:

http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-prepared-to-again-swing-for-free-agency-8332553.php?t=c30d61550a927fc3fb&cmpid=twitter-premium

The Spurs still need clarity on whether Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili or David West intend to play next season.

Ginobili, 38, and West, 35, opted out of their contracts for next season in order to weigh options.

The 40-year-old Duncan exercised an option for $5.64 million Wednesday, but is still considering retirement.

“I don’t know we can dictate next year’s roster until we have clarity on our previous roster,” Buford said.

NikosChelsea7

06-29-2016, 05:32 PM

What were RC's comments? I didn't see it in the thread. Were they posted?

http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/teams/spurs/2016/06/24/1466743408553-rc-draft-night.mp4-613024

4:55 and 7:17

Kindergarten Cop

06-29-2016, 05:49 PM

I apologize if this is a dumb question, but a few had suggested that there is a slim possibility that the FO could trade Duncan's contract if he chooses to retire. Could he state that he is retiring (or "hold off" on the decision) and not file the paperwork with the league office and still have his contract - possibly combined with another player(s) - used as a trade chip near the trade deadline of this upcoming season?

SAGirl

06-29-2016, 06:10 PM

bklynspursfan

06-29-2016, 07:24 PM

Let's just say he's not uncertain about what he wants. To me he seemed inclined to retire and those were the anonymous rumors coming out earlier in the month from the FO. This scenario still supports that inclination but his teammates, coach and fans are hoping he changes his mind. That's different from waffling.

It was just a rumor, so there's no telling what was really going down. Only TD knows and maybe Pop, but that's not something they would leak.

They could have assumed that cause he hadn't made a quicker decision, but I think it's more about his body and how he feels and like Woj said his desire to play again.

I trust Woj's report far more than any rumors that came out before.

SAGirl

06-29-2016, 07:25 PM

It was just a rumor, so there's no telling what was really going down. Only TD knows and maybe Pop, but that's not something they would leak.

They could have assumed that cause he hadn't made a quicker decision, but I think it's more about his body and how he feels and like Woj said his desire to play again.

I trust Woj's report far more than any rumors that came out before.
I didn't see the Woj's reports, but I am inclined to believe he knows what he wants. I don't think he's undecided, per se.. will have to look up woj

bklynspursfan

06-29-2016, 07:52 PM

I didn't see the Woj's reports, but I am inclined to believe he knows what he wants. I don't think he's undecided, per se.. will have to look up woj

It's not much, he just said he's still deciding. This was the quote

Duncan, 40, is still seriously contemplating his desire to continue playing, as well as judging how his body feels, league sources said.

He's always said he'll play till the wheels fall off and till it's not fun anymore. It seems this year he's genuinely undecided. I know none of us truly know, but it feels like he really isn't sure yet

SAGirl

06-29-2016, 08:14 PM

It's not much, he just said he's still deciding. This was the quote

He's always said he'll play till the wheels fall off and till it's not fun anymore. It seems this year he's genuinely undecided. I know none of us truly know, but it feels like he really isn't sure yet
I see, thanks for sharing that. That sounds like a hopeful state of indecision... the context at least seems more positive that he's considering a return than the previous rumors. He could be waffling then, and was seriously contemplating retiring earlier. :tu

I hope that he does return. About 50 posts ago I remarked that I personally believed the Durant thing to be a long shot anyways, meantime Tim can help our youngest players improve which is the gift that keeps on giving, bc I believe we won't get over the hump until our youngsters are able to help us get there anyways.

skulls138

06-29-2016, 09:03 PM

Might as well play. Im looking for the new version of the big 3 and this year there doesnt seem to be someone to fill that other than KD. Plus I would be willing to bet that last year was supposed to be a transition year. There were too many new parts to figure out to think that it was championship or bust. Having said that I think the plan consisted of the current big 3 to have a little more than what they had.

RuffnReadyOzStyle

06-29-2016, 09:29 PM

BillMc

06-30-2016, 12:04 AM

I don't think they were posted - just read a snippet from Jeff McDonald's article:

http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-prepared-to-again-swing-for-free-agency-8332553.php?t=c30d61550a927fc3fb&cmpid=twitter-premium

Cheers. :bobo

BillMc

06-30-2016, 12:05 AM

http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/teams/spurs/2016/06/24/1466743408553-rc-draft-night.mp4-613024

4:55 and 7:17

Thanks. :bobo

DMC

06-30-2016, 12:16 AM

kaji157

06-30-2016, 12:41 AM

Manure was making Tony Parker money in 2013 when 8 turnovers happened.

Quit acting like he's earned <5M for his career lmao

:cry "he sacrificed, he can do whatever he wants" :cry

He has declined earlier than ginobili, by any advanced stat.

Not the point, he has been the most expensive of the big 3 by production alone and that, we can all agree, is not right as the one to be better payed should be Tim Duncan, Ginobili is rightfully below him, Parker is unrightfully over.

kaji157

06-30-2016, 12:43 AM

When Parker's production drops to Tim/Manu level, he can take a paycut.

Already, Manu took the first paycut averaging what Tony did for the playoffs this and last year in 2014, making 7 millions.
Plus, is not that Tony has been payed LESS than Manu whatsoever, he has been payed more, even without the shitty contract he has now, playing only one more season.

bklynspursfan

06-30-2016, 08:38 AM

I call bullshit. He's not undecided. He already knows. He just hasn't told us but you can bet Pop knows.

I wouldn't doubt if Pop knows more than anyone. I also don't usually doubt Woj.

CaptainLate

06-30-2016, 08:54 AM

Get your money, Tim. You owe this franchise nothing.

Spurs aren't getting Durant and he's the only FA that Tim should take the minimum for... Aren't the Spurs meeting with KD going to be Pop and Tim? Tim could have opted out and explained to KD at the meeting that he'd be willing to take the minimum if KD signs with the Spurs. Can the Spurs offer a one-year deal to KD then more when the new TV money kicks in after next year?

TheGoldStandard

06-30-2016, 09:32 AM

I don't think the Spurs have anything that will really entice Durant to make the move to SA.. You have Kawhi Leonard and LMA and that's pretty much it.. Danny doesn't move the needle, Tony doesn't either.. Dinosaur Duncan and Manu for 1 season? nah..

Had Duncan officially walked away without eating up money and manu decided to walk away the Spurs could legitimately say lets rebuild around you and Kawhi but it's just trying to stop gap until the old guys get enough or the FO grows a pair.

venitian navigator

06-30-2016, 09:51 AM

the point is that if Tim retires, Manu won't come back either and the "old big three era" will definitevely end...and probably here ends any chance to have kd. that's why I don't understand Tim's choice to opt in in case he still wants to play.
The ideal solution would have been to sell to kd the one year transition period of the old big three (plus Green) with the new big three...and, then, a more than exciting opportunity to became, just because of his signing, the main force in the league since the first year.

Brazil

06-30-2016, 10:15 AM

After 19 years of selfless leadership, Tim is highly unlikely to be behaving selfishly around this decision. He will have consulted Pop and RC and they'll all know exactly what they're doing.

There is a plan here, we just don't know what it is - and may not like it when we do! :lol

pretty much this

at this point what we know for certain imo:

- There is nothing that Tim and Manu are doing without consultion FO and be aligned with them
- Tim & Manu won't play for another team

From there anything is quite possible

mbass

06-30-2016, 11:52 AM

pretty much this

at this point what we know for certain imo:

- There is nothing that Tim and Manu are doing without consultion FO and be aligned with them
- Tim & Manu won't play for another team

From there anything is quite possible

Yes - Manu and Tim are the true leaders of the team - 2 great players, smart, with great character. Love them both.:toast

BillMc

06-30-2016, 12:20 PM

DMC

06-30-2016, 02:13 PM

Since when is collecting on your contracted amount "selfish"?

Chinook

06-30-2016, 02:16 PM

Since when is collecting on your contracted amount "selfish"?

Indeed. Moreover, Tim taking the money and running (if it does happen) was ALWAYS the plan. People acting like the Spurs have some secret way of handling this are overthinking it. Teams have to deal with dead money all the time. Tim taking the balance of the contract is just the team keeping up their end of the bargain. You just have to suck it up and deal when that happens.

GSH

06-30-2016, 02:27 PM

Chinook

06-30-2016, 02:29 PM

Just saw that the Spurs lost another $750K of cap space. Duncan got that as a bonus for a 62+ win season. I didn't wade through a zillion posts to see if it's been mentioned before, but it was the first I had heard of it.

It doesn't matter, but it's a bit more complicated than that. The cap hit came from the fact that the league now believes Duncan will get that money again this season. They had already assumed he'd get it last season.

GSH

06-30-2016, 02:35 PM

It doesn't matter, but it's a bit more complicated than that. The cap hit came from the fact that the league now believes Duncan will get that money again this season. They had already assumed he'd get it last season.

Damn, you're on top of the numbers. Actually, it sounded like it must be for both years. His option was for something like $5.6M, but he's hitting the cap for over $7M?

I guess it is what it is. But if Duncan is counting that much against the cap, it's just that much harder to sign a top FA, and still have money for role players.

Chinook

06-30-2016, 02:49 PM

Damn, you're on top of the numbers. Actually, it sounded like it must be for both years. His option was for something like $5.6M, but he's hitting the cap for over $7M?

Nah. The way it worked is that we were wrong this whole time about Duncan's 2015-2016 cap number. It was an even $6 Million, but we thought it was $5.25 Million. Duncan had that bonus for the team winning 62 or more games. At the time, that was considered unlikely to be earned. Those don't count against the cap ... except for the first season. So Tim's official hits at the time of inking the deal were 6/5.6.

But the Spurs DID meet the requirement. That had no effect on Duncan's 2015-2016 number, since that was already accounted for. But since the Spurs won more than 62 games last year, the league will change the nature of Duncan's incentive to likely to be earned during the moratorium. That will increase Duncan's cap hit by $750k, as that hadn't previously been slated to count. Hence the $6.4-Million cap hit now.

However, it's interesting to note that if the team misses that incentive mark this season, that $750k should be added onto the cap for 2017.

dabom

06-30-2016, 02:53 PM

tend to agree but he was excellent last regular season. Based on Net Rtg, win share per 48, and P.E.R he was the 3rd best Spur last season (4th including Boban) I would like him back but Spurs should. I would hate to see him go.

Dworst is shit. Did you see the fucking playofffs? Not the regular season. And even in the regular season he shit the bed vs all the good teams. Dude is a bum who cant rebound over a point guard.

Chinook

06-30-2016, 03:00 PM

The really fascinating thing is that Duncan's contract had any incentives at all. Like why not just give him the full $6 Million off the bat? I used to think it was a cap trick, but the CBA FAQ said that loophole was closed. So it really just didn't make sense.

GSH

06-30-2016, 03:01 PM

Nah. The way it worked is that we were wrong this whole time about Duncan's 2015-2016 cap number. It was an even $6 Million, but we thought it was $5.25 Million. Duncan had that bonus for the team winning 62 or more games. At the time, that was considered unlikely to be earned. Those don't count against the cap ... except for the first season. So Tim's official hits at the time of inking the deal were 6/5.6.

But the Spurs DID meet the requirement. That had no effect on Duncan's 2015-2016 number, since that was already accounted for. But since the Spurs won more than 62 games last year, the league will change the nature of Duncan's incentive to likely to be earned during the moratorium. That will increase Duncan's cap hit by $750k, as that hadn't previously been slated to count. Hence the $6.4-Million cap hit now.

However, it's interesting to note that if the team misses that incentive mark this season, that $750k should be added onto the cap for 2017.

Thanks. There are some sportswriters who should fact-check through you.

Okay - it had no effect on 15-16, since that was already accounted for. But I bet the league still remembered to send the Spurs a bill for the extra $1.1M in tax for last year?

cd021

06-30-2016, 03:53 PM

Dworst is shit. Did you see the fucking playofffs? Not the regular season. And even in the regular season he shit the bed vs all the good teams. Dude is a bum who cant rebound over a point guard.

:lol except for the OKC home game in the RS where he came up big time late in the forth quarter.

Based on advanced metrics he was clearly the 3rd best Spur last season (4th including Boban) in the PS his metrics were average in the PS, it was not like he was disaster. West and Diaw shouldn't have been pared together against an near historic rebounding team.

first you acted as though trading Mills was more unthinkable than trading 03' Duncan now you claim that West is trash. Your next hot take will probably be that Kawhi is the worst defensive player in the NBA.

TheCerebral1

06-30-2016, 05:22 PM

Well I doubt he'd exercise it if he wasn't coming back. So that's a good thing. He played amazingly well outside of against OKC. He's still valuable.

dabom

06-30-2016, 05:45 PM

:lol except for the OKC home game in the RS where he came up big time late in the forth quarter.

Based on advanced metrics he was clearly the 3rd best Spur last season (4th including Boban) in the PS his metrics were average in the PS, it was not like he was disaster. West and Diaw shouldn't have been pared together against an near historic rebounding team.

first you acted as though trading Mills was more unthinkable than trading 03' Duncan now you claim that West is trash. Your next hot take will probably be that Kawhi is the worst defensive player in the NBA.

Everyone thinks Dworst is shit including all the fans and FO since they really don't want him back. :lmao

Only you are making that case here. Literally just you. But keep thinking its just me saying it. :lol

dabom

06-30-2016, 05:47 PM

O i forgot. chinook also wants him as our starting center. :lol

dabom

06-30-2016, 05:53 PM

Can anyone else make a case for Dwest starting or even being the 3rd big off the bench? Anyone please. So I can laugh. :lol

GSH

06-30-2016, 06:10 PM

Can anyone else make a case for Dwest starting or even being the 3rd big off the bench? Anyone please. So I can laugh. :lol

Well since West spent his whole career as a PF, right up till the Spurs dumped him into the C slot, I don't think anyone would expect that to be a good idea. Especially not David West. That's like asking if Kawhi should be the backup PG. Sorry... bad example. I should know that many of the knob-gobbling Kawhi fanboys think Kawhi could play the 3 and the 1 at the same time. How about putting Kyle Anderson in as backup C?

Why do some of you not understand that the Spurs were desperate, and threw West into a situation he didn't belong in? They paid the vet min for a backup C who is really a PF, and you're upset at West for how it worked? :deadhorse

dabom

06-30-2016, 06:12 PM

Well since West spent his whole career as a PF, right up till the Spurs dumped him into the C slot, I don't think anyone would expect that to be a good idea. Especially not David West. That's like asking if Kawhi should be the backup PG. Sorry... bad example. I should know that many of the knob-gobbling Kawhi fanboys think Kawhi could play the 3 and the 1 at the same time. How about putting Kyle Anderson in as backup C?

Why do some of you not understand that the Spurs were desperate, and threw West into a situation he didn't belong in? They paid the vet min for a backup C who is really a PF, and you're upset at West for how it worked? :deadhorse

Love your sig dude. Always chuckle/small laugh when I see it. :lol

T_L_P

06-30-2016, 06:42 PM

Damn, you're on top of the numbers. Actually, it sounded like it must be for both years. His option was for something like $5.6M, but he's hitting the cap for over $7M?

I guess it is what it is. But if Duncan is counting that much against the cap, it's just that much harder to sign a top FA, and still have money for role players.

What top FA do you honestly think we'd sign anyway?

GSH

06-30-2016, 07:49 PM

What top FA do you honestly think we'd sign anyway?

Can't tell if you're asking a question, or just trying to be a dick. Probably the latter.

If I had meant max player, I would have said max player. The consensus seems to be that Bazemore will be drawing around $18M, or even more. And that doesn't seem to be out of the ordinary for what we're going to see this offseason. Have you looked at the Spurs' cap numbers, or what happens if they sign one guy for even that much?

People on ST just love to be dicks - even about things they don't understand. It doesn't add anything to any discussion, but it seems to be a hobby for some people. I've never seen any of your other 270 posts, but consider not being one of those guys.

cd021

06-30-2016, 10:14 PM

O i forgot. chinook also wants him as our starting center. :lol

The West/Alridges pairings net rtg was +4.2 per 100 possessions. The spacing was significantly better with the two of them sharing the floor, teams couldn't leave West to double LMA because West is an excellent shooter. I would prefer Diaw in the starting lineup with West paired with Boban off the bench, however.

cd021

06-30-2016, 10:26 PM

Everyone thinks Dworst is shit including all the fans and FO since they really don't want him back. :lmao

Only you are making that case here. Literally just you. But keep thinking its just me saying it. :lol

Actually I have seen several other posters share the same opinions.

Keep in mind ST were burying Manu after 2013, how did that work out?

ST called Cojo a D leaguer even up until his 4th season, how did that work out?

West had an excellent regular season and a mediocre PS, its just that simple.

Kindergarten Cop

06-30-2016, 10:29 PM

Actually I have seen several other posters share the same opinions.

Keep in mind ST were burying Manu after 2013, how did that work out?

ST called Cojo a D leaguer even up until his 4th season, how did that work out?

West had an excellent regular season and a mediocre PS, its just that simple.

I'm in this camp.

dabom

06-30-2016, 10:32 PM

The West/Alridges pairings net rtg was +4.2 per 100 possessions. The spacing was significantly better with the two of them sharing the floor, teams couldn't leave West to double LMA because West is an excellent shooter. I would prefer Diaw in the starting lineup with West paired with Boban off the bench, however.

Vs OKC he was a choke job. End of story. How many times do I got to tell you faggots. :lmao

dabom

06-30-2016, 10:34 PM

dabom

06-30-2016, 10:52 PM

Dwest has been a PROVEN chocker everywhere he goes. Let's give him more minutes... :lmao

Thomas82

07-01-2016, 12:14 AM

Mugen

07-01-2016, 12:19 AM

Even more proof that Timmy is hanging them up soon. Gonna miss the Big Fun tbh.....

Ron Swanson

07-01-2016, 12:27 AM

Yeah, I think Timmy's calling it a career. Go enjoy the rest of your life with your kids. You've done so much for this team and deserve it.

Kindergarten Cop

07-01-2016, 12:32 AM

Yeah, I think Timmy's calling it a career. Go enjoy the rest of your life with your kids. You've done so much for this team and deserve it.

Well said. :toast

SAGirl

07-01-2016, 04:48 AM

Kind of sad. I have been saying he's retiring for a whole long while and I had made my peace after his farewell game 6, but you guys keep talking me into believing that is not true. When all is said and done I am going to miss him as much as anybody. Me saying he was retiring was just based on seeing him struggle more than usual even for his age since he had been magnificent just a season before. He really didn't look right and that was painful to see and it must have been worse for him to not be able to do perform the way he wanted to, or even be pain free--that's got to be the worst. He was enjoyable to watch and of his late series I prefer to remember him in the Clippers 2015 series. He was epic.

As far as I am concerned he can do whatever he wants. I found myself wishing he had decided to do another season after all, but he doesn't even like farewell tours and he's not going to come back if he can't play like he wants to play.

BillMc

07-01-2016, 06:22 AM

So LaMarcus Aldridge is going in Tim Duncan's place to the meeting with KD?

Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account
‏@WojVerticalNBA

Spurs meeting with Kevin Durant in the Hamptons will include Gregg Popovich, RC Buford and LaMarcus Aldridge, sources tell @TheVertical.

Damn. I think this really is the end for Timmy D. :depressedI know others are at peace with it, and I'll get there, but for now I'm seriously sad.

bklynspursfan

07-01-2016, 07:07 AM

748748313483055106

Andthentherewas21

07-01-2016, 07:17 AM

Makes more sense for Aldridge to go than Duncan. Even if Duncan comes back, its for this season and maybe next. Aldridge and Leonard are the ones that would have to sell Durant on the long-term. I think Duncan knows how diminished his role is at this point and given the way his body has started breaking down, he probably wants to come back but isn't sure if he really can handle another 90+ games (assuming they have a deep playoff run)

Thomas82

07-01-2016, 07:22 AM

Damn. I think this really is the end for Timmy D. :depressedI know others are at peace with it, and I'll get there, but for now I'm seriously sad.

I'm still holding out a sliver of hope.

cd021

07-01-2016, 08:46 AM

He's not gonna be a spur next year. Why is that faggot? :lmao

Let me tell pop we need him. :lol

Its 50/50, Duncan retirement could mean that he will be back. Can't figure you out, his advanced numbers were off the charts, only behind Bobans numbers and you acting like he's Jeff Ayers 2.0. He was probably the second best big on the team last season behind LMA.

:lol ST scrubs theses days....

any other hot takes?

Mr. Body

07-01-2016, 09:32 AM

Duncan's gone. There was a short period where he, and the team,math ought the FA market could provide help, but everyone is too expensive. It's not worth dragging along with the same team as last year. Let them find their own way.

DPG21920

07-01-2016, 09:34 AM

Spurs, I'm assuming, are operating like Tim''s money is on the books regardless if he's playing or not. I don't think the FO knows and while planning for his money is clear enough, him playing or not can impact FA and team needs (having him actually play for his 6M or needing to replace him as well).

cjw

07-01-2016, 10:18 AM

I he does in fact retire, can his contract be traded to bring back salary? Seems like they're going to operate over the cap and hope they can slot someone useful into the MLE. Tim plus maybe Diaw's contracts can bring back a lot of salary.

And on him not visiting Durant, maybe we shouldn't read too much into it. Feeling may be that there's a snowball's chance in hell at him signing this season, so plant the seeds and go after him if he does sign 1+1.

DPG21920

07-01-2016, 10:48 AM

MaNu4Tres

07-01-2016, 10:54 AM

If Tim retires (and files paperwork) before the trade, then no. I do not believe he can be traded. However, Spurs would not technically have to pay him either, but with him opting in it seems like they have already agreed to pay him if he does retire or else it makes no sense.

They will be able to waive & spread him though if he retires. The 6.4 will be spread over 3 years IIRC. So instead of 6.4, 2.13 mil will count on cap.

DPG21920

07-01-2016, 11:11 AM

They will be able to waive & spread him though if he retires. The 6.4 will be spread over 3 years IIRC. So instead of 6.4, 2.13 mil will count on cap.

I think that is correct - I would have to double check. I am not sure SA would do that though TBH...while the cap is jumping again, if there isn't any need to spread him to land a FA, I think they just eat it this year and have no dead money from him beyond IMO.

But the possilbity if they need to is there.

BillMc

07-01-2016, 12:07 PM

I'm still holding out a sliver of hope.

:toastMe too man, but it doesn't look good.

lcroock

07-01-2016, 02:26 PM

Can someone confirm that even if Tim retires his salary counts against the cap? If this is the case and we don't renounce Manu or Boban how much cap space is left? $6M?

Chillen

07-01-2016, 03:20 PM

I think a player like Duncan will walk away from this game when it's just not fun anymore to do it. It's not that he can't play another season, it's just that he had some knee issues and sitting on the bench unless your Matt Bonner is dull. Duncan seems like the kind of player that plays this game because he can at a high level and it's fun, but when the body tells him no you can't, it's over. He wants his game to be at or close to a certain level and if it's off, he probably doesn't want to play the NBA game that way.

So it's up to Timmy, I like the idea of signing Gasol, and Duncan coming off the bench, I think he could last all of next season fairly easily with that scenario.

Lots of things will factor into Tim's decision to retire if he does, but I do believe the #1 reason is not being able to play at or near that high level the NBA requires.

BillMc

07-01-2016, 03:32 PM