Woj:San Antonio's Tim Duncan exercises player option

[NASpurs]

747963325598810113

[GooberNuts]

:flag::flag::flag:

[AFBlue]

I don't understand this move. Doesn't this make it harder for the Spurs to lure a max free agent like KD?

[SpursFan86]

Seems strange that he'd exercise the player option if he's not even sure he's returning. Doesn't that just tie up cap space for the time being?

[spurs10]

Great to hear! Tim will be important as a mentor to any new pieces we acquire and will likely help mold his inevitable successor.

[AFBlue]

:flag::flag::flag:

This doesn't necessarily mean he's coming back.

[TheGreatYacht]

Don't ruin your career stats playing for a pretender, Tim. :depressed

[AFBlue]

The Woj convo from earlier proved to be prophetic. I just don't get it though...seems like it hurts the Spurs in their free agency recruitment process.

[Mugen]

Get your money, Tim. You owe this franchise nothing.

Spurs aren't getting Durant and he's the only FA that Tim should take the minimum for...

[HankChinaski]

Who cares about career stats. The man is the Spurs GOAT. He can do what he wants. He decides to retire that is his severance package.

[poeticism707]

747963325598810113

:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:

Hope that means you're staying another year TD!!!!!!!!

[Ron Swanson]

Tim can do whatever he wants.

[AFBlue]

Get your money, Tim. You owe this franchise nothing.

Spurs aren't getting Durant and he's the only FA that Tim should take the minimum for...

He's going on the pitch for Durant, so he clearly thinks there's some chance. It just seems like an odd move if he's still unsure about coming back.

Btw, I don't begrudge him taking the money...it's his, he has more than earned it. Just saying I don't see what the play is from the bigger picture if there is one.

[Spur|n|Austin]

I don't understand this move. Doesn't this make it harder for the Spurs to lure a max free agent like KD?

Yes.. But it's TFD

[Joseph Kony]

He's coming back

[TheGreatYacht]

Who cares about career stats. The man is the Spurs GOAT. He can do what he wants. He decides to retire that is his severance package.
Casuals do. 20 years from now millennials will look back at his stats and see 17/16ppg.

If he comes back, I hope he just rests up for the playoffs. Won't happen though.

[Mugen]

He's going on the pitch for Durant, so he clearly thinks there's some chance. It just seems like an odd move if he's still unsure about coming back.

Btw, I don't begrudge him taking the money...it's his, he has more than earned it. Just saying I don't see what the play is from the bigger picture if there is one.

That "pitch" like many NBA talking heads have alluded to is to lay the foundation for the summer of 2017 when Durant is more likely to leave. He's doing a 1+1 to remain with OKC this year.

He's not coming this year thus making Duncan's contract irrelevant in the grand scheme of this offseason.....

[TheGreatYacht]

Chinook does this mean RC is going to have to move either Danny or TP to make room for a max player? IIRC Mills and Diaw would've been enough before, right?

[Cloud786]

No way to afford KD now unless TP is traded for Doritos.

[Mugen]

No way to afford KD now unless TP is traded for Doritos.

TP probably signs off on that trade if he gets to keep the Doritos.

[RD2191]

No way to afford KD now unless TP is traded for Doritos.

Cool ranch or nacho cheese?

[SpursFan86]

I don't blame him at all for taking the money. Even ignoring all he's done for this franchise, he's still easily worth $5.6 million in terms of what he gives you on the court.

It just seems weird that he'd opt in if he truly isn't sure about coming back.

[siraulo23]

Glad hes coming back :tu

hopefully his "good" knee actually heals for next season

what does this mean for the durant hunt tho?

[AFBlue]

That "pitch" like many NBA talking heads have alluded to is to lay the foundation for the summer of 2017 when Durant is more likely to leave. He's doing a 1+1 to remain with OKC this year.

He's not coming this year thus making Duncan's contract irrelevant in the grand scheme of this offseason.....

Interesting how you make complete bullshit conjecture appear like fact. Even if you linked to said "talking heads", neither they nor you would be able to say for sure what the pitch is going to be.

[DPG21920]

747963325598810113


Man, Woj talking about Tim opting in has me nervous :lol. I mean, he's pretty tied into things and maybe he was just saying what he thinks? I don't think it makes sense for Tim, but who knows. If he's retiring he may not care about the team so much and want to get his money.

Good thing we will know no later than tomorrow if he opts in or out.

I mean, I know the deadline is tomorrow but why would Tim need to wait to announce it when both Manu/West announced a day or more early (I think)?

Welp, there it is. No one should begrudge Tim at all for this - he's done so much for the franchise beyond taking the pay cuts.

I really didn't think it made sense for him to opt in and put the teams cap space in jeopardy, so I am surprised.

Now we really don't know anything and this puts a damper on SA's free agency chances. Like I said in the above post, maybe he's done caring about the franchise needs and is looking out for only himself (which is no big deal).

Just really interesting since SA could have paid him even more if he opted out and came back.

[DPG21920]

If he retires, he doesn't get his money. So him optin in does nothing except tie up cap space if he retires. If he stays, then it guarantees him the money, but SA likely could have paid him more if he opted out.

[Russ]

:toast

[Mugen]

Interesting how you make complete bullshit conjecture appear like fact. Even if you linked to said "talking heads", neither they nor you would be able to say for sure what the pitch is going to be.

:lol Not sure what I can do for you if you think the Spurs have a realistic shot of bringing in KD THIS summer...

[Emperor]

If he retires, he doesn't get his money. So him optin in does nothing except tie up cap space if he retires. If he stays, then it guarantees him the money, but SA likely could have paid him more if he opted out.

So basically he's coming back and doing us a solid by taking another paycut?

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/742453347030966273/EXg2EWvP_bigger.jpg Bobby Marks Verified account ‏@BobbyMarks42 (https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42)

San Antonio Spurs cap situation http://yhoo.it/291CQlF (https://t.co/ijAwe56n2v)

[SpursFan86]

If he retires, he doesn't get his money. So him optin in does nothing except tie up cap space if he retires. If he stays, then it guarantees him the money, but SA likely could have paid him more if he opted out.

Exactly. Seems like it would've made more sense for him to opt out either way. It wouldn't count against the team's cap for the time being. If he decided he wanted to come back, Spurs could've offered him a 1-year deal for a similar amount, possibly more if/when they strike out on big name FAs.

[HI-FI]

Get your money, Tim. You owe this franchise nothing.

Spurs aren't getting Durant and he's the only FA that Tim should take the minimum for...
Cosigned.

Hope this means TD is coming back.

[NASpurs]

Seems like the Danny is the odd man out if they really want Durant... unless they can get rid of Parker. (Yeah KD and trading Parker are long shots)

[Mugen]

If he retires, he doesn't get his money. So him optin in does nothing except tie up cap space if he retires. If he stays, then it guarantees him the money, but SA likely could have paid him more if he opted out.

Can't the team still pay him this year's salary if he retires? Why wouldn't the Spurs pay him if it was part of the deal last season when Timmy took a below market value contract....

[RD2191]

I'll ride with Timmy. Fuck a ring. I just wanna see some Spurs basketball.

[DPG21920]

So basically he's coming back and doing us a solid by taking another paycut?

Not at all. He's not doing the Spurs any favors and we don't know if he's coming back. He may be worth more on the open market if he returns, but I don't know. If he retires, then he definitely hurt the Spurs (but again, it's all good).

[Juan]

Maybe he's letting the Spurs use him and his contract in a trade before he calls it quits lol

[DPG21920]

Can't the team still pay him this year's salary if he retires? Why wouldn't the Spurs pay him if it was part of the deal last season when Timmy took a below market value contract....

I'm not sure actually. I would imagine SA might be able to pay him, but if he retires I don't think teams usually pay players for nothing.

To me, it's the same thing (circumventing the rules to an extent) as telling Tim that if he opts out SA will pay him 6M to be a "big man coach" or something.

[NASpurs]

Maybe he's letting the Spurs use him and his contract in a trade before he calls it quits lol

Hmmm interesting point

[Mr. Body]

Maybe he's letting the Spurs use him and his contract in a trade before he calls it quits lol

Like Bowen, right? Maybe we're getting Rich Jefferson back.

[tmtcsc]

I know this sounds ludicrous but is it possible that he opted in so that the Spurs could trade the value of his contract and then he retires? They would be able to send him and Boris' 7 mill somewhere and get a 12.5 Million player in return, if not more. That's what they did with Bruce Bowen.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Lil dpg needs to explain this betta

[Spur|n|Austin]

If TD decides to play another season, this really does show the Durant courting in the coming days is for the 2017 season. As always with SA FO - chess not checkers.


I know this sounds ludicrous but is it possible that he opted in so that the Spurs could trade the value of his contract and then he retires? They would be able to send him and Boris' 7 mill somewhere and get a 12.5 Million player in return, if not more. That's what they did with Bruce Bowen.

Interesting thought.

[DPG21920]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/742453347030966273/EXg2EWvP_bigger.jpg Bobby Marks Verified account ‏@BobbyMarks42 (https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42)

San Antonio Spurs cap situation http://yhoo.it/291CQlF (https://t.co/ijAwe56n2v)

Chinook - is it me or does this seem way different than what we discussed?

[tonight...you]

Tim can do whatever he wants.
At this point. Yes. He brought what S.A. was never, ever ever, everevereverevereverevereverever gonna get without him.
And he brought it over and over again.

Trophies.

Tim can suck up all the cap space for the entire year and he would deserve it ten times over.

Do what you want, big guy. I'm bringing my hot rod to your shop no matter what.

[DPG21920]

Lil dpg needs to explain this betta

What you talking bout Willis?

[Ron Swanson]

Like Bowen, right? Maybe we're getting Rich Jefferson back.

https://media.giphy.com/media/tjwzClJM6fyEw/giphy.gif

[TheGoldStandard]

Tim taking matters into his own hands and screwing the Spurs before Pop gets a chance..

Actually, hope he does come back..

[HankChinaski]

Casuals do. 20 years from now millennials will look back at his stats and see 17/16ppg.

Casual Fans. Who gives a shit about casual fans. Anytime I talk to a casual fan about sports I may as well water board myself. Much like a large quantity of posters here. I just don't bother commenting to their takes they are emotionally anger responses of no lifers that live too much through other people

[SuperCam]

Pretty clear Timmy is retiring, tbh. Taking the 5 mill and calling it a career. :toast

PAFTO need to ink Gasol ASAP

[Mugen]

I'm not sure actually. I would imagine SA might be able to pay him, but if he retires I don't think teams usually pay players for nothing.

To me, it's the same thing (circumventing the rules to an extent) as telling Tim that if he opts out SA will pay him 6M to be a "big man coach" or something.

I'm not exactly clear either even after a Google search.

I think the Spurs can still choose to pay him for "Nothing" if he retired and it would count against this year's cap.

If that happens, then you can say it's Timmy screwing the team over but what if it was an under the table agreement last year that Timmy would retire this offseason and the Spurs would still pay him. It would have come out to around 10-11mil salary for Duncan last year which is more than fair considering he's the franchise and still one of the best defensive bigs in the league...

[tonight...you]

I'll ride with Timmy. Fuck a ring. I just wanna see some Spurs basketball.
And yet you bitch about every player that even sniffs joining the team.
You're so bullshit and I love you for it, big dog.

[HankChinaski]

he is sucking up 5 or 6 million in cap space. WOW. compared to other unnamed nba players that held albatrosses on other teams I am sure the front office is more than happy to write that check.

[Mugen]

Considering his personality and how much Timmy has sacrificed for the Spurs, the only scenario where this move makes sense is Duncan calling it quits tbh....

[NASpurs]

Considering his personality and how much Timmy has sacrificed for the Spurs, the only scenario where this move makes sense is Duncan calling it quits tbh....

and his contract gets traded before he announces his retirment

[Ditty]

None of this makes sense tbh especially if we are going after Durant. I think something is brewing...

I don't think Spurs were going to gut the roster for Durant anyways, sounds like Spurs are confident they can get rid of Green or Parker if Durant comes.

[NASpurs]

Can you imagine? "The Spurs have traded Tim Duncan to the Philadelphia 76ers for..." :lol

[DPG21920]

I'm not exactly clear either even after a Google search.

I think the Spurs can still choose to pay him for "Nothing" if he retired and it would count against this year's cap.

If that happens, then you can say it's Timmy screwing the team over but what if it was an under the table agreement last year that Timmy would retire this offseason and the Spurs would still pay him. It would have come out to around 10-11mil salary for Duncan last year which is more than fair considering he's the franchise and still one of the best defensive bigs in the league...

I don't really think it's about screwing the franchise over - there has to be something I am missing (and others) about the benefit of excercising the option. I just don't see any upside for Tim let alone SA (unless they trade him like other say).

I am tweeting Larry Coon to see if he can answer the CBA rules on retiring.

[spurraider21]

Cool ranch or nacho cheese?
Salsa Verde GOAT

[TheGreatYacht]

he is sucking up 5 or 6 million in cap space. WOW. compared to other unnamed nba players that held albatrosses on other teams I am sure the front office is more than happy to write that check.
Your motto is "Get Paycheck, Get Drunk"

:pop: is that you?

[tonight...you]

I don't really think it's about screwing the franchise over - there has to be something I am missing (and others) about the benefit of excercising the option. I just don't see any upside for Tim let alone SA (unless they trade him like other say).

I am tweeting Larry Coon to see if he can answer the CBA rules on retiring.
Maybe he simply is done and wants what's coming to him...
We'll know more in the next couple of days, for sure.

[pgardn]

https://media.giphy.com/media/tjwzClJM6fyEw/giphy.gif

I wanna do this but I'm not sure why.

[SuperCam]

Two bad knees tbh... looked geriatric against Adams and Kanter in the playoffs. Don't blame him.


Look forward to Poop getting exposed as the coattail rider he is :wakeup

[DPG21920]

I'm not exactly clear either even after a Google search.

I think the Spurs can still choose to pay him for "Nothing" if he retired and it would count against this year's cap.

If that happens, then you can say it's Timmy screwing the team over but what if it was an under the table agreement last year that Timmy would retire this offseason and the Spurs would still pay him. It would have come out to around 10-11mil salary for Duncan last year which is more than fair considering he's the franchise and still one of the best defensive bigs in the league...

I checked Larry's CBA FAQ and it definitely appears you get your money if you retire. I can see Tim wanting his money if he retires and perhaps he's really just unsure. If he was going to play, I guess he opts out. But if he's truly unsure and a deadline was forced the only way for him to get his money would be to opt in.

It means the team has less chance to improve if he comes back, but I guess that is worth the risk if he's really weighing his options.

[HankChinaski]

Your motto is "Get Paycheck, Get Drunk"

:pop: is that you?

More of a Bukowski thing than anything else.

[loveforthegame]

Surprising.

Not blaming him. Dude deserves every penny and then some. He's left more on the table than most would.

Like others, it makes me wonder how the Spurs attack this off season now.

[SAGirl]

I don't understand this move. Doesn't this make it harder for the Spurs to lure a max free agent like KD?

I don't know what to tell you at this stage. I have gone through a lot of ideas here, and he seemed to me more likely to retire than Manu, but Manu at least made it clear at this stage it is an individual decision.

I have since the very beginning been under the impression the major FA rumors were pipedreams, anyways so I am not disappointed that the clearing of cap space seems unlikely now. (Maybe the meeting with Durant is for next season assuming he does the 1&1 year deal with OKC)

Here you have the following:

1. Boris staying Spurs wish to keep him.
2. Timmy opts in.
3. Boban gets his QO, meaning Spurs intend to match offers for him within reason.
4. Bertans rumors of 2 years at 4 mill. He's paid higher than the minimum in Europe and has a $650k buyout. He's not coming here for the minimum.
5. All our first round stashes are likely coming over (LJC for sure, Milutinov declined to play for his national team in the Olympics!!! That is not peanuts Milutinov is leaving out there in terms of opportunities for personal growth and fun playing basketball in the olympic games, to show up for our summer league team. I tend to think Milutinov is at least at 50% or more probability to be picked up for next season, depending on the quality of his play. If Timmy is on the roster for next season, Milutinov is a potential minutes eater to spare Tim's body)
6. No moves to clear capspace during draft night despite rumors the Spurs were looking to move up in the draft aggressively, and all the rumors surrounding Danny Green.

Bottom line: We are rebuilding depth the old fashioned way, draft and develop. It seems next season is when we can add a significant FA.

Even the rumors about Pau don't make sense to me at this point.

[DPG21920]

Maybe he simply is done and wants what's coming to him...
We'll know more in the next couple of days, for sure.

For sure - now that I'm 99% sure players can get paid if they retire (in most scenarios - which is crazy to me) that does make sense. However, you would think SA could give him a "job" that pays him the same while giving the team cap space if retirement was known.

Seems likely he's really torn

[Mugen]

I checked Larry's CBA FAQ and it definitely appears you get your money if you retire. I can see Tim wanting his money if he retires and perhaps he's really just unsure. If he was going to play, I guess he opts out. But if he's truly unsure and a deadline was forced the only way for him to get his money would be to opt in.

It means the team has less chance to improve if he comes back, but I guess that is worth the risk if he's really weighing his options.

Maybe. But I don't know if I buy the unsure part. He's a smart guy and I'd imagine pretty in tune with the realistic options for who the Spurs can nab in Free Agency. He's also had a month+ to decide....

I think him opting in signals that Timmy will be retiring within the next day or two.

If he opted out, it would have been a sure fire sign that he was coming back for one more season.

[Russ]

Maybe he simply is done and wants what's coming to him...
We'll know more in the next couple of days, for sure.

Why would he be meeting with Durant on Friday if he's retiring?

[Chinook]

I don't really think it's about screwing the franchise over - there has to be something I am missing (and others) about the benefit of excercising the option. I just don't see any upside for Tim let alone SA (unless they trade him like other say).

I am tweeting Larry Coon to see if he can answer the CBA rules on retiring.

Think McDyess. Yes, the team can still pay him.

[spurraider21]

He's coming back.

Not that I expect Durant to choose the spurs, but would they really send Duncan to the pitch meeting where he's gna tell KD that he's retiring and eating cap on his way out?

[LakerHater]

747976012328140804
747973587345170432

[SAGirl]

Great to hear! Tim will be important as a mentor to any new pieces we acquire and will likely help mold his inevitable successor.
I hope they bring Milutinov over so he can learn a thing or two from Timmy.

[Mr. Body]

Why would he be meeting with Durant on Friday if he's retiring?

Move into an elder statesman role. Doesn't seem too weird.

[SpurPadre]

What I want to know now is why didn't Manu do the same thing, given most indications that he would follow suit with whatever TD would do?

[DPG21920]

747972970220421120

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747975559414591488

[Cloud786]

If Duncan retires (and gets paid), does that 6 million still count against the cap?

[tonight...you]

Why would he be meeting with Durant on Friday if he's retiring?
Is that for sure, or just a rumor?
Maybe he, for sure, wants in for just one more year and locked the team into it.

I don't claim to know anything, myself. This is one deal that can go any way when it comes to conjecture and postulating.

[Splits]

Obviously this means one thing and one thing only: Timmy is playing another year

:lobt2:

[tonight...you]

If Duncan retires (and gets paid), does that 6 million still count against the cap?
Yessir. This will not be free money.

[RD2191]

And yet you bitch about every player that even sniffs joining the team.
You're so bullshit and I love you for it, big dog.

Muh nigga. :hat

[DPG21920]

Think McDyess. Yes, the team can still pay him.

I know the team can still pay him (now), but do you think that is likely that SA would pay him for not working? What if they need that cap space?

I forgot what happened with McDyess.

[daslicer]

Not too thrilled about Tim coming back since he looked washed up during the playoffs but the positive of this is that he won't be going into the hall of fame at the same time as Kobe.

[lefty20]

I'm still not entirely sure what impact this has on our cap situation. What was his cap hold(if there was one) before he opted in?

[RD2191]

I'm pretty sure Tim is gone. He knows he's done and I doubt he'll pull a Kobe and drag the Spurs down with him.

[DPG21920]

747976012328140804
747973587345170432

Why are their numbers so different from what we have? Is the 6.3M because of the Over 36 rule? In our cap scenarios Tim opting out gave the Spurs cap space, didn't restrict with 9M cap hold (unless we were assuming they renounce Tim and he takes the min).

[DPG21920]

Move into an elder statesman role. Doesn't seem too weird.

Ya - teams bring in retired stars all the time to recruit. Hakeem, Magic, etc...it's definitely a normal part of recruiting process for most teams.

[Chinook]

I know the team can still pay him (now), but do you think that is likely that SA would pay him for not working? What if they need that cap space?

I forgot what happened with McDyess.

I mentioned before that this was the likeliest result of a one-plus-one deal. My guess is that the team planned for this. Of he retires, he'll be stretched if they need space. But it was always very likely that Tim and Manu were going to be paid to go retire.

[coachmac87]

Well this officially confirms Duncan will be on the plan to see KD...

Just the tip of the ice burg

[tonight...you]

Why are their numbers so different from what we have? Is the 6.3M because of the Over 36 rule? In our cap scenarios Tim opting out gave the Spurs cap space, didn't restrict with 9M cap hold (unless we were assuming they renounce Tim and he takes the min).
Sounds like we are all in a giant cluster eff over here...
I certainly hope RC and the FO aren't running around like headless chickens like we are.

I'm willing to bet conversations were made. Decisions happened and plans are in effect, as well as they can be made effective.

Shit... maybe I'm wrong and RC is half-naked, drunk in his front yard screaming at his wife to turn on the sprinklers full blast.
IT'S HOT AS HELL OVER HERE WOMAN!!!

[TheGoldStandard]

Why are their numbers so different from what we have? Is the 6.3M because of the Over 36 rule? In our cap scenarios Tim opting out gave the Spurs cap space, didn't restrict with 9M cap hold (unless we were assuming they renounce Tim and he takes the min).

They would have had to renounce both manu and tim to get those figures correct. those cap holds weren';t going anywhere

[DPG21920]

If Duncan retires (and gets paid), does that 6 million still count against the cap?

Yes.

[TheGoldStandard]

Sounds like we are all in a giant cluster eff over here...
I certainly hope RC and the FO aren't running around like headless chickens like we are.

I'm willing to bet conversations were made. Decisions happened and plans are in effect, as well as they can be made effective.

Shit... maybe I'm wrong and RC is half-naked, drunk in his front yard screaming at his wife to turn on the sprinklers full blast.
IT'S HOT AS HELL OVER HERE WOMAN!!!

It's quite possible.. RC tried calling Pop but he's already in bed and doesn't answer the phone after 9.

[look_at_g_shred]

Sounds like we are all in a giant cluster eff over here...
I certainly hope RC and the FO aren't running around like headless chickens like we are.

I'm willing to bet conversations were made. Decisions happened and plans are in effect, as well as they can be made effective.

Shit... maybe I'm wrong and RC is half-naked, drunk in his front yard screaming at his wife to turn on the sprinklers full blast.
IT'S HOT AS HELL OVER HERE WOMAN!!!
Lol wtf

[SAGirl]

I checked Larry's CBA FAQ and it definitely appears you get your money if you retire. I can see Tim wanting his money if he retires and perhaps he's really just unsure. If he was going to play, I guess he opts out. But if he's truly unsure and a deadline was forced the only way for him to get his money would be to opt in.

It means the team has less chance to improve if he comes back, but I guess that is worth the risk if he's really weighing his options.
How does him retiring make sense with the Durant meeting?
I think Timmy is coming back.

[RD2191]

Timmy might just be pitching KD for next season.

[DPG21920]

I mentioned before that this was the likeliest result of a one-plus-one deal. My guess is that the team planned for this. Of he retires, he'll be stretched if they need space. But it was always very likely that Tim and Manu were going to be paid to go retire.

I don't remember seeing your post on it being likely. I didn't think it was likely at all unless the logic was no way Tim was willing to chance playing for the minimum. That is the only scenario I can think of that made sense to exercise the option is if Tim was not willing to play for the min under any circumstance.

However, now learning that he can be stretched (did not know that, although I should have - retiring doesn't change that rule) it makes more sense as it's a small hit to the cap moving forward.

[coachmac87]

How does him retiring make sense with the Durant meeting?
I think Timmy is coming back.

People are just completely ignoring that Duncan is supposed to be part of KD meeting...unless it's not true. Just haven't heard anybody dispute it. Him opting in kind of supports him being at the meeting

[DPG21920]

I mentioned before that this was the likeliest result of a one-plus-one deal. My guess is that the team planned for this. Of he retires, he'll be stretched if they need space. But it was always very likely that Tim and Manu were going to be paid to go retire.

Then why would Manu opt out? What if Tim does not retire, does the decision then not make any sense to you?

[HankChinaski]

Spurs are not going to gut roster before getting a commitment from Durant. If the spurs can sign Durant, moving pieces to create space is something they probably have a plan for.

[Chinook]

Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) does this mean RC is going to have to move either Danny or TP to make room for a max player? IIRC Mills and Diaw would've been enough before, right?

Yes. Team can get $14,891,164 if they renounce their holds and stretch Diaw. But if both players are on the roster and unstretched, the Spurs are functionally over the cap.

[Chinook]

Then why would Manu opt out? What if Tim does not retire, does the decision then not make any sense to you?

I can try looking for my original post on the matter, but I had suggested that the option would essentially mean the opposite of what people thought it would. Opting in was committing to the retirement package. Opting out was because you weren't going retire and wanted to re-sign using Bird rights.

[DPG21920]

How does him retiring make sense with the Durant meeting?
I think Timmy is coming back.

I think retired players are a part of these meetings all the time. It might be something where Tim, the franchise player, is there to tell him what it was like and how him leaving means it's KD/LMA/Kawhi team now.

I don't think the meeting has anything to do with his decision IMO.

I think he retires - otherwise doesn't make a ton of sense. Tim has shown that if he's playing, he wants to win. If SA fell short last year he knows they need money to add to the team. Him opting in means they have less chance to build a team if he does not retire.

If he opted out (assuming he was coming back), he could have gotten paid more than his opt-in if SA whiffed on FA and if they had to renounce Tim's cap hold to get the cap space and he had to play for the min, I don't think it would have mattered to him.

We will see - a lot of this is confusing to me.

[TheGoldStandard]

It could be that the Spurs plan to pay Manu something like 5 or 6 million for one final season.

[Chinook]

I don't remember seeing your post on it being likely. I didn't think it was likely at all unless the logic was no way Tim was willing to chance playing for the minimum. That is the only scenario I can think of that made sense to exercise the option is if Tim was not willing to play for the min under any circumstance.

However, now learning that he can be stretched (did not know that, although I should have - retiring doesn't change that rule) it makes more sense as it's a small hit to the cap moving forward.

I'd rather them not stretch him. That money is more useful next off-season and in 2018 than it is this year. The Spurs are over the cap as of now and have zero flexibility outside of a trade. Duncan being stretched doesn't really prevent that.

[baseline bum]

Oh man I hope this means Tim is back. I can't imagine this team without him.

[DPG21920]

I can try looking for my original post on the matter, but I had suggested that the option would essentially mean the opposite of what people thought it would. Opting in was committing to the retirement package. Opting out was because you weren't going retire and wanted to re-sign using Bird rights.

It's all good - was not an accusation :lol just saying I didn't remember seeing your logic on it. But now knowing that he can be stretched and it really won't hurt the team cap wise makes perfect sense.

It won't make sense if he plays however.

[NASpurs]

I can try looking for my original post on the matter, but I had suggested that the option would essentially mean the opposite of what people thought it would. Opting in was committing to the retirement package. Opting out was because you weren't going retire and wanted to re-sign using Bird rights.

:depressed the man, the legend

[SAGirl]

747976012328140804
747973587345170432
:toast
Thanks for sharing.

[DPG21920]

I'd rather them not stretch him. That money is more useful next off-season and in 2018 than it is this year. The Spurs are over the cap as of now and have zero flexibility outside of a trade. Duncan being stretched doesn't really prevent that.

Well if SA needs/wants cap space this year, then stretching Tim vs him opting out doesn't really change that plan much at all, no?

[Splits]

It could be that the Spurs plan to pay Manu something like 5 or 6 million for one final season.

:lmao

You forgot the "1." before your numbers.

[SAGirl]

What I want to know now is why didn't Manu do the same thing, given most indications that he would follow suit with whatever TD would do?
He actually said in his last article in "La Nacion" that this was an individual decision, that he wanted to know what the team was doing and that he was going to talk to his teammates as usual, but that his decision wasn't tied to anyone else's.

[Chinook]

Well if SA needs/wants cap space this year, then stretching Tim vs him opting out doesn't really change that plan much at all, no?

Yes. They'd be much better off trading Diaw and/or Mills to make their improvements. It also likely closes the door on West returning unless he just really loves minimum deals.

[DPG21920]

Makes more sense now. I'm on the Tim is retiring side now with all things considered.

Him coming back makes it too perplexing of an action with how he limits the team's ability to improve with his choice (which is against what he's been doing) and the fact that he's not really securing himself any more money either.

[BillMc]

I think this means he's retiring. That payment was really part of last year's salary. He took the reduction to get LMA. Now, he's taking the money and going. The Durant meeting might be as an elder statesman and because KD respects Duncan. Possibly, Duncan will agree to come back if KD comes, but both that scenario (and KD coming) are very unlikely.

He may allow them to trade his contract before he retires, which might be TD's last helpful move for the team. (Remember he still has a no-trade clause, I think). As others have said TD plus Diaw brings back 12 million contract. Can Philly sigh and trade Noel to us for that?

[objective]

Sooo... LLE / BAE for Bertans, and MLE has to be kept to match on Boban, right?

[DPG21920]

I can try looking for my original post on the matter, but I had suggested that the option would essentially mean the opposite of what people thought it would. Opting in was committing to the retirement package. Opting out was because you weren't going retire and wanted to re-sign using Bird rights.

Circling back to your last sentence. If Tim opted out & Spurs renounced him to get his cap hold off the books, he no longer can be signed with Bird Rights, correct? I thought that if you trade a player and/or you renounce them, you lose their rights?

If that's the case, then if he opted out & SA renounced him to remove the cap hold, then SA could only sign him with cap space and/or min deal/exceptions which might not have been OK with Tim playing for min (or am I off).

[BatManu20]

Get your money, Tim. You owe this franchise nothing.

Spurs aren't getting Durant and he's the only FA that Tim should take the minimum for...

[Mr. Body]

I think this means he's retiring. That payment was really part of last year's salary. He took the reduction to get LMA. Now, he's taking the money and going. The Durant meeting might be as an elder statesman and because KD respects Duncan. Possibly, Duncan will agree to come back if KD comes, but both that scenario (and KD coming) are very unlikely.

He may allow them to trade his contract before he retires, which might be TD's last helpful move for the team. (Remember he still has a no-trade clause, I think). As others have said TD plus Diaw brings back 12 million contract. Can Philly sigh and trade Noel to us for that?

Well, Noel's contract is still rookie cheap. And I don't see Philly as needing cap space.

[Sean Cagney]

Casuals do. 20 years from now millennials will look back at his stats and see 17/16ppg.

If he comes back, I hope he just rests up for the playoffs. Won't happen though.

Eh, it will dip to 18.5 ppg and about 10 some odd boards a game, still not shabby for a career. I agree casuals look at stats though and think it defines the player, which is sad. I like the 20 and 11 more myself but he can do what he wants pretty much. He has proved it all already.

[Chinook]

Makes more sense now. I'm on the Tim is retiring side now with all things considered.

Him coming back makes it too perplexing of an action with how he limits the team's ability to improve with his choice (which is against what he's been doing) and the fact that he's not really securing himself any more money either.

Well, this is what I mentioned back in January:


Couple of things. First, the 1+1 deals imply that the two guys are at least considering retiring and pocketing the money. The only benefit of having a player option is so a player can extend his contract against his team's wishes. This is usually in the case of injury. If the Greybreads weren't planning on getting paid not to play, they'd've just signed straight one-year deals. Now you may be wondering why they didn't just sign a two-year deal if they planned on taking the 2016-2017 money even if they retire. But that's actually further proof of their plan. They want the option over a straight two-year deal SPECIFICALLY so they could opt out for a bigger deal if they want to continue their careers. And that's perfectly fine for the Spurs, as they will have Bird rights for both guys and will most likely not have any cap space anyway. If the Spurs NEED the space, maybe they could work with Tim and Manu to get some of that money back, but they don't seem likely to get out of those contracts for free in any event -- and I think they don't intend to.

Second is that even if Tim and Manu intend on retiring without taking any salary, they may opt in and agree to forego their guarantee just to give the Spurs a chance to use the cap space or trade exceptions on a piece for the next era. In fact, it makes them even more attractive if they go that route. They become dust chips. This isn't the best market to trade dust-chip guys in (too much cap space), but maybe the Spurs can make something work. Like Duncan, Manu, Diaw, money to cover Diaw's buyout and a couple of first-rounders for Horford. It would take some luck to get that to make a max contract to offer him, but no question in my mind that Atlanta would take that offer if Al decides to leave them.

Actually, that was the premise of the entire thread: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256702

[coachmac87]

Duncan could be the ultimate pitch. Duncan is going to the meeting to tell Durant personally before he leaks it to the press's he's retiring. And the great Tim Duncan is choosing you to take over his franchise. The "carry the torch" would keep the media off his back if he went to the super team (Spurs). I wonder how it'd strike Durant in the meeting if it actually happened.

[Chinook]

Circling back to your last sentence. If Tim opted out & Spurs renounced him to get his cap hold off the books, he no longer can be signed with Bird Rights, correct? I thought that if you trade a player and/or you renounce them, you lose their rights?

If that's the case, then if he opted out & SA renounced him to remove the cap hold, then SA could only sign him with cap space and/or min deal/exceptions which might not have been OK with Tim playing for min (or am I off).

Yes. Though they could not renounce him and just sign him to a new deal like they did last year.

[Keepin' it real]

Thank you for the :lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2: Timmy D.!!!!!

[FvckMavs]

Duncan could be the ultimate pitch. Duncan is going to the meeting to tell Durant personally before he leans it to the press's he's retiring. And the great Tim Duncan is choosing you to take over his franchise. The "carry the torch" would keep the media off his back if he went to the super team (Spurs). I wonder how it'd strike Durant in the meeting if it actually happened.

It could also be they've already known KD is not coming anyway.

[NASpurs]

I think this means he's retiring. That payment was really part of last year's salary. He took the reduction to get LMA. Now, he's taking the money and going. The Durant meeting might be as an elder statesman and because KD respects Duncan. Possibly, Duncan will agree to come back if KD comes, but both that scenario (and KD coming) are very unlikely.

He may allow them to trade his contract before he retires, which might be TD's last helpful move for the team. (Remember he still has a no-trade clause, I think). As others have said TD plus Diaw brings back 12 million contract. Can Philly sigh and trade Noel to us for that?

Tim and Bobo for Brandon Knight

[SAGirl]

I think retired players are a part of these meetings all the time. It might be something where Tim, the franchise player, is there to tell him what it was like and how him leaving means it's KD/LMA/Kawhi team now.

I don't think the meeting has anything to do with his decision IMO.

I think he retires - otherwise doesn't make a ton of sense. Tim has shown that if he's playing, he wants to win. If SA fell short last year he knows they need money to add to the team. Him opting in means they have less chance to build a team if he does not retire.

If he opted out (assuming he was coming back), he could have gotten paid more than his opt-in if SA whiffed on FA and if they had to renounce Tim's cap hold to get the cap space and he had to play for the min, I don't think it would have mattered to him.

We will see - a lot of this is confusing to me.

Got it, thanks for answering DPG! :toast

[SpurPadre]

He actually said in his last article in "La Nacion" that this was an individual decision, that he wanted to know what the team was doing and that he was going to talk to his teammates as usual, but that his decision wasn't tied to anyone else's.

Thanks.

[TheGreatYacht]

It could be that the Spurs plan to pay Manu something like 5 or 6 million for one final season.
:lmao

what a waste of money

[coachmac87]

It could also be they've already known KD is not coming anyway.

Then the meeting should be canceled..but it's not.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Very strange move by Tim, but the FO don't mess up the basics, so I trust everyone knows what they are doing.

Maybe he gets traded elsewhere to clear space then retires? :lol

Edit: just read Chinook's post, so that's actually a possibility. :lmao

[Spur|n|Austin]

I'm pretty sure Tim is gone. He knows he's done and I doubt he'll pull a Kobe and drag the Spurs down with him.

When has Tim been a player that would pull a Kobe and overshoot while overshadowing his team? It hasn't been his team for the past few years and he's known that...

[tonight...you]

It's quite possible.. RC tried calling Pop but he's already in bed and doesn't answer the phone after 9.
Good wine does that.
So does shitty Scotch, but whatever,,,

[Spur|n|Austin]

Funny part about this time of year, almost everybody's theories are wrong and Spurs go and surprise us all.

[RD2191]

Funny part about this time of year, almost everybody's theories are wrong and Spurs go and surprise us all.

Yeah, Matt Bonner will be our big free agent signing.

[TheGoldStandard]

Funny part about this time of year, almost everybody's theories are wrong and Spurs go and surprise us all.

Spurs sign jack, re up manu and do it again.. mostly likely scenario.. fast forward to May... "Fuck, we got out rebounded.. and weren't athletic enough"

[TheGoldStandard]

Yeah, Matt Bonner will be our big free agent signing.


:pop: He's the straw that stirs the drink

[007nites]

Sign and trade I'm assuming and then he retires

[Spur|n|Austin]

Yeah, Matt Bonner will be our big free agent signing.

That's not surprising doe

[DPG21920]

Well, this is what I mentioned back in January:



Actually, that was the premise of the entire thread: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256702

:tu

[Spur|n|Austin]

Spurs sign jack, re up manu and do it again.. mostly likely scenario.. fast forward to May... "Fuck, we got out rebounded.. and weren't athletic enough"

LaMarcus.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Spurs sign jack, re up manu and do it again.. mostly likely scenario.. fast forward to May... "Fuck, we got out rebounded.. and weren't athletic enough"

Tbh there's not a whole lot we can do but call 2016 a development year - don't have capspace or assets to make a significant move, and given the state of the off-season it's better to mostly sit out FA period.

Bring in some youngsters and see how it plays out. We were only a couple of plays away from winning semis in 5. Anything can happen in the NBA.

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah, Matt Bonner will be our big free agent signing.

3/30 deal coming soon.

[T Park]

Why would he be meeting with Durant on Friday if he's retiring?



Possible that Durant's hang up is Duncan being there, Duncan there to assure him he's retiring and to "take his mantle"

[RD2191]

:pop: He's the straw that stirs the drink


That's not surprising doe


3/30 deal coming soon.

:lol

[Spurtacular]

I hope he comes back the year after that, too. Play one more year than TOSB.

[ElNono]

Hope it means he's coming back for one more ride...

[T Park]

Well, Noel's contract is still rookie cheap. And I don't see Philly as needing cap space.



I can see Colangelo as wanting Diaw and doing the Spurs a solid by taking Duncan's salary.

[SAGirl]

^ That's what I am hoping too, (what ElNono said) that since he opted in, he's decided to come back for next season. We also have a lot of young big men that could learn from just seeing him play. Seeing him interact with Boban last season, one could tell he was teaching.

But it takes a lot to keep in tip top shape to play and our team last season had a ceiling, and the only way to raise that ceiling now is through youngster development (which takes time he doesn't have) and a FA (which seems unlikely we can add this season with our cap situation).

I really wish to see him one last season but I can't fault Tim if he takes his money and retires.

Still this is all speculation.

[Mr. Body]

I can see Colangelo as wanting Diaw and doing the Spurs a solid by taking Duncan's salary.

Huh? Mwah? Take on a vet with suspicious motivation on a young team with rocky chemistry? No. And trade one of their potential center pieces for the right, plus take on salary?

[Kawhitstorm]

Don't ruin your career stats playing for a pretender, Tim. :depressed

Tim is giving Pop the middle finger & retiring w/ his money instead of taking a paycut when Porker is collecting 30 mills.:lol

[DMC]

Tim gets 6 or 7 million vs Tim gets nothing but Spurs get something.

Sounds like a no brainer for Tim.

[TheGoldStandard]

Tim is giving Pop the middle finger & retiring w/ his money instead of taking a paycut when Porker is collecting 30 mills.:lol

Only way to take out of the head of the snake. Kill the body and the head will die.

[DMC]

I hope he comes back the year after that, too. Play one more year than TOSB.
I hope he plays until the Spurs beg him to leave, until you can't tell the difference between him and Bill Russell.

[NASpurs]

748004712528613376
748005175013548036

[DPG21920]

Tim gets 6 or 7 million vs Tim gets nothing but Spurs get something.

Sounds like a no brainer for Tim.

Him opting out was not that. If he was going to play, him opting out gives the Spurs more flexibility to add to the team for another run (which is for Tim too) & he could have gotten paid just as much (or more). There was a chance he could have gotten paid less as well, but that was only in a scenario where Tim knowingly opted out to pursue free agents to improve his chances of winning.

Tim opting in, only guarantees that he gets at least that 5+M and no more or no less (unless he retires and SA says they do not want to pay him for retirement - then it's moot).

[T Park]

Huh? Mwah? Take on a vet with suspicious motivation on a young team with rocky chemistry? No. And trade one of their potential center pieces for the right, plus take on salary?



Bring on a veteran that improved their team. He's stated the "process" is over. He traded for him in Phoenix and absolutely can see him wanting him.

[Kawhitstorm]

If he retires, he doesn't get his money. So him optin in does nothing except tie up cap space if he retires. If he stays, then it guarantees him the money, but SA likely could have paid him more if he opted out.

He probably wasn't going to play for less than his current salary so in that case it was better that he opted in rather than having his cap hold eat up more cap room than his actually salary which would have been the case had he opted out & not gotten renounced.

As of right now, I could see them just going after Pau w/ the MLE otherwise just giving Manu/D-Worst a raise & offering Boban the MLE. The new additions are going to be a bunch of minimum salary scrubs.:bang

PATFO won't strike until 2017 after the whole spending bonanza levels out, CIA Pop is doing a covert operation for next Summer.

[Nathan89]

I'm pretty sure Tim is gone. He knows he's done and I doubt he'll pull a Kobe and drag the Spurs down with him.

He's still worth his contract. It's nothing like Kobe.

[DMC]

Him opting out was not that. If he was going to play, him opting out gives the Spurs more flexibility to add to the team for another run (which is for Tim too) & he could have gotten paid just as much (or more). There was a chance he could have gotten paid less as well, but that was only in a scenario where Tim knowingly opted out to pursue free agents to improve his chances of winning.

Tim opting in, only guarantees that he gets at least that 5+M and no more or no less (unless he retires and SA says they do not want to pay him for retirement - then it's moot).

They could offer him nothing.

[SpursFan86]

So, what will the Spurs do if Tim does retire? We'll have no cap space and still need a starting center. Even if we do manage to keep Boban, I have a hard time seeing them planning on going into the season with him as the starter. Guess our options would be to either a) try to get a starting center on a minimum deal (not too promising), or b) move Diaw and/or Mills to make room for someone like Pau.

[DPG21920]

He probably wasn't going to play for less than his current salary so in that case it was better that he opted in rather than having his cap hold eat up more cap room than his actually salary which would have been the case had he opted out & not gotten renounced.

As of right now, I could see them just going after Pau w/ the MLE otherwise just giving Manu/D-Worst a raise & offering Boban the MLE. The new additions are going to be a bunch of minimum salary scrubs.:bang

PATFO won't strike until 2017 after the whole spending bonanza levels out, CIA Pop is doing a covert operation for next Summer.

I just can't imagine Tim caring about money all of the sudden if he was going to play. Like that 4M pay cut by opting out (worst case) is really that much to him (might be)? He could even make it up by doing another 1+1 and retiring next year.

The only scenario where Tim plays for less salary is if he opted out & SA used all that cap space to sign player(s) to improve the team. Then even then, he still could sign a 1+1 and not go backwards at all really.

[DMC]

He's still worth his contract. It's nothing like Kobe.
No he's not. It's all sentimental right now, and confirmation bias. He'll have a double digit game here and there and people will act like they were right but he's been done for a couple years. Sure you can grab some nobody with a similar salary and compare the effects they have on their respective teams but that's not how you should grade it. You should grade it by whether or not the Spurs need 40 year old Tim Duncan to win. They don't. They need someone who can defend, pass and shoot like Tim could and that person isn't out there. So instead they need to move on but they won't. That will be up to Tim as well it should.

Tim doesn't have the top of the key shot any longer.

Tim doesn't shoot the bank shot much, and doesn't hit often when he does.

Tim has a hard time making fucking layups

Tim doesn't shoot FTs well

Tim's knees are getting any better and they sucked this year

The fans will run him into the ground to get anything they can from him and pretend it was worth it, just like Kobe fans did Kobe. Kobe helped but he was done 4 years ago. Can't blame Tim or the business of basketball but Tim vs no Tim won't make any difference in the playoffs.

[DPG21920]

They could offer him nothing.

I mean, could SA turncoat and do that? Is it likely enough to really be taken into consideration? I personally don't think so, but it is technically possible.

[SAGirl]

He probably wasn't going to play for less than his current salary so in that case it was better that he opted in rather than having his cap hold eat up more cap room than his actually salary which would have been the case had he opted out & not gotten renounced.

As of right now, I could see them just going after Pau w/ the MLE otherwise just giving Manu/D-Worst a raise & offering Boban the MLE. The new additions are going to be a bunch of minimum salary scrubs.:bang

PATFO won't strike until 2017 after the whole spending bonanza levels out, CIA Pop is doing a covert operation for next Summer.
/sigh with Dworst.
I know its irrational. He wasn't played optimally, in an ideal position and situation for him, but /sigh. Dworst doesn't make sense if they have Boban and Diaw though and we have younger bigs coming in taking spots. I almost feel like if Tim does retire we'll be getting Dworst.

[T Park]

Duncan showed in game 6, when the knee feels close to decent he can still play.

To say his talents have diminished a bunch is wrong. It's all health

[T Park]

I mean, could SA turncoat and do that? Is it likely enough to really be taken into consideration? I personally don't think so, but it is technically possible.


Not how this front office works, nor would I want them to either.

[RD2191]

He's still worth his contract. It's nothing like Kobe.

I'm saying Tim will make the best choice for the team. If he feels he can contribute and have an impact on the game he will come back. If he feels he can't carry the load of being a starter anymore and is dragging the team down then he'll retire.

[DPG21920]

So, what will the Spurs do if Tim does retire? We'll have no cap space and still need a starting center. Even if we do manage to keep Boban, I have a hard time seeing them planning on going into the season with him as the starter. Guess our options would be to either a) try to get a starting center on a minimum deal (not too promising), or b) move Diaw and/or Mills to make room for someone like Pau.

SA would have to trade and as it's going now it seems like the most likely way to add players since Tim opting in and Boris having his deal guaranteed means they can't just waive guys for cap space now.

SA will have the MLE to work with along with trades with these developments. They could still stretch Tim's salary if he retires but that seems extra pointless now with Boris not being able to be waived to save 4M(unless they can dump Boris fully guaranteed deal in a trade for no money back which seems less likely now).

[SAGirl]

So, what will the Spurs do if Tim does retire? We'll have no cap space and still need a starting center. Even if we do manage to keep Boban, I have a hard time seeing them planning on going into the season with him as the starter. Guess our options would be to either a) try to get a starting center on a minimum deal (not too promising), or b) move Diaw and/or Mills to make room for someone like Pau.
Pau, that's the answer.
Behind him as the 5th big when Pau sits to rest, he's old enough too that I assume he'll get the occasional rest game, Milutinov.

[T Park]

/sigh with Dworst.
I know its irrational. He wasn't played optimally, in an ideal position and situation for him, but /sigh. Dworst doesn't make sense if they have Boban and Diaw though and we have younger bigs coming in taking spots. I almost feel like if Tim does retire we'll be getting Dworst.



Guy was a damn solid big all year and still thought of that way.

Message boarder though thinks he/she is cute with the DWorst stupidity.

[DMC]

I mean, could SA turncoat and do that? Is it likely enough to really be taken into consideration? I personally don't think so, but it is technically possible.
I wasn't commenting on the likelihood of it, just saying they could, so my original comment was accurate enough. Tim gets millions vs Tim gets nothing is a real scenario. Maybe Tim doesn't want to leave that up to Peter Holt's wife.

[Kawhitstorm]

Him opting out was not that. If he was going to play, him opting out gives the Spurs more flexibility to add to the team for another run (which is for Tim too) & he could have gotten paid just as much (or more). There was a chance he could have gotten paid less as well, but that was only in a scenario where Tim knowingly opted out to pursue free agents to improve his chances of winning.


There was no way Tim could have gotten paid more & given the Spurs flexibility by opting out b/c his cap hold is actually larger than his salary. If he got renounced then the Spurs would lose his Bird Right thus they can't go over the cap to re-sign him.

The only way it Tim could have given the Spurs flexibility was by getting renounced & basically playing for the room exception or vet min. PATFO are basically bringing back the old crew b/c they aren't ready to strike in 2016.

[Nathan89]

No he's not. It's all sentimental right now, and confirmation bias. He'll have a double digit game here and there and people will act like they were right but he's been done for a couple years. Sure you can grab some nobody with a similar salary and compare the effects they have on their respective teams but that's not how you should grade it. You should grade it by whether or not the Spurs need 40 year old Tim Duncan to win. They don't. They need someone who can defend, pass and shoot like Tim could and that person isn't out there. So instead they need to move on but they won't. That will be up to Tim as well it should.

I disagree. He's still well worth 6 million in this league. The biggest problem is the offense produces no easy baskets because there is no ball penetration. LMA and Danny are complete non dribblers. Parker can't do anything either. Just look at how valuable Bogut is to GSW. Bogut gets significantly more than him and can't shoot, post-up, or defend mobile guards.

[tbdog]

If Spurs get Gasol and retain Bobon, we have 3 guys that can only play center and have no way in hell to play together. They would be picked n rolled to death.

[SAGirl]

Guy was a damn solid big all year and still thought of that way.

Message boarder though thinks he/she is cute with the DWorst stupidity.
whatever dude. I know what I saw. He is a fine player in certain situations but he was played as a center and he's obviously not, unless you disagree with that. In which case you are the cutie pie one.

[Nathan89]

I'm saying Tim will make the best choice for the team. If he feels he can contribute and have an impact on the game he will come back. If he feels he can't carry the load of being a starter anymore and is dragging the team down then he'll retire.

He's not even are worse starter so he should feel fine making what he does.

[SpursFan86]

SA would have to trade and as it's going now it seems like the most likely way to add players since Tim opting in and Boris having his deal guaranteed means they can't just waive guys for cap space now.

SA will have the MLE to work with along with trades with these developments. They could still stretch Tim's salary if he retires but that seems extra pointless now with Boris not being able to be waived to save 4M(unless they can dump Boris fully guaranteed deal in a trade for no money back which seems less likely now).

Maybe I'm off-base with my speculation, but I really don't see the Spurs trading Diaw/Mills to be honest. Stein's tweet about the Spurs wanting to keep Diaw seems to back that up as well.

Would they be re-signing Boban with Bird Rights? Or would they potentially have to use the MLE on him?

[Emperor]

If Spurs get Gasol and retain Bobon, we have 3 guys that can only play center and have no way in hell to play together. They would be picked n rolled to death.

Correct. They still need someone who mobile enough for that kind of situation.

[T Park]

whatever dude. I know what I saw. He is a fine player in certain situations but he was played as a center and he's obviously not, unless you disagree with that. In which case you are the cutie pie one.



The league is going small kiddo.

[Kawhitstorm]

/sigh with Dworst.
I know its irrational. He wasn't played optimally, in an ideal position and situation for him, but /sigh. Dworst doesn't make sense if they have Boban and Diaw though and we have younger bigs coming in taking spots. I almost feel like if Tim does retire we'll be getting Dworst.

Tim is out there recruiting & I doubt he opts-in just to for the retirement money.:lol

I feel like PATFO are setting up for 2017 thus don't want any long term contracts on the book which means asking players to pick up their options & guaranteeing contracts for next season. Boban is the only player I could see walking since there is some dumb GM that's going to offer him 4yr/40 million.:lol (Roy Hibbert::wow)

[T Park]

Maybe I'm off-base with my speculation, but I really don't see the Spurs trading Diaw/Mills to be honest. Stein's tweet about the Spurs wanting to keep Diaw seems to back that up as well.

Would they be re-signing Boban with Bird Rights? Or would they potentially have to use the MLE on him?



No bird rights on him, believe they'd have to eat into the MLE, to which I'd say, adios.

[dabom]

Guy was a damn solid big all year and still thought of that way.

Message boarder though thinks he/she is cute with the DWorst stupidity.
Poster not very bright. Still funny and true. :lol

[Nathan89]

Tim returning will make watching Tony a little more palatable.

[SpursFan86]

whatever dude. I know what I saw. He is a fine player in certain situations but he was played as a center and he's obviously not, unless you disagree with that. In which case you are the cutie pie one.

The point is that David West isn't nearly as bad as many people here make him out to be. He's still a solid big, especially on a minimum deal.

The problem is that pairing him with Diaw and expecting him to play center isn't a good strategy. But endlessly criticizing West for the Spurs putting him in that situation seems strange. And besides, like TPark said, West was solid all season long. He was shitty against OKC, but so was 3/4 of the team. Just seems weird to me how critical some people here are of West.

[T Park]

Poster not very bright. Still funny and true. :lol



Mind your place kiddo. To the back of the room.

[T Park]

The point is that David West isn't nearly as bad as many people here make him out to be. He's still a solid big, especially on a minimum deal.

The problem is that pairing him with Diaw and expecting him to play center isn't a good strategy. But endlessly criticizing West for the Spurs putting him in that situation seems strange. And besides, like TPark said, West was solid all season long. He was shitty against OKC, but so was 3/4 of the team. Just seems weird to me how critical some people here are of West.

He was shitty because he didn't have a good PNR defending center next to him. That's it.

A bad matchup. Yet these band of half wit pocket protector wearing morons act like he's Jack fucking Haley

[DPG21920]

I wasn't commenting on the likelihood of it, just saying they could, so my original comment was accurate enough. Tim gets millions vs Tim gets nothing is a real scenario. Maybe Tim doesn't want to leave that up to Peter Holt's wife.

I didn't say it was inaccurate - said it was unlikely. But I digress..

[Chinook]

SA would have to trade and as it's going now it seems like the most likely way to add players since Tim opting in and Boris having his deal guaranteed means they can't just waive guys for cap space now.

SA will have the MLE to work with along with trades with these developments. They could still stretch Tim's salary if he retires but that seems extra pointless now with Boris not being able to be waived to save 4M(unless they can dump Boris fully guaranteed deal in a trade for no money back which seems less likely now).

Remember that the MLE is essentially tagged for Boban already. The moment they use any of it on something else, they lose the full right of first refusal. Until they come to a deal, that MLE is going nowhere.

[DMC]

Maybe I'm off-base with my speculation, but I really don't see the Spurs trading Diaw/Mills to be honest. Stein's tweet about the Spurs wanting to keep Diaw seems to back that up as well.

Would they be re-signing Boban with Bird Rights? Or would they potentially have to use the MLE on him?
Think "stand pat".

[Kawhitstorm]

I just can't imagine Tim caring about money all of the sudden if he was going to play. Like that 4M pay cut by opting out (worst case) is really that much to him (might be)? He could even make it up by doing another 1+1 and retiring next year.

PATFO most likely encouraged him to pick it up b/c they don't want to ask him to play for the minimum. If they are holding off until 2017 then might as well pay Tim & give Manu/D-Worst a pay raise.

[DPG21920]

Remember that the MLE is essentially tagged for Boban already. The moment they use any of it on something else, they lose the full right of first refusal. Until they come to a deal, that MLE is going nowhere.

For sure, but I was assuming that SA wanted the option for Boban in case things didn't work out with other top FA targets. With Tim's news along with Boris, trade & MLE are the only tools to improve. If they really want Pau, they may have to use MLE on him and that means by to Boban.

I know for now that money is Boban's but I think SA might choose Pau over Boban.

[tbdog]

For the purpose of discussion about West, here is my issue. I was fine with West coming back IF we get a mobile center. There is no point pairing him with P.Gasol. So if we can't get a mobile center, then try and get a mobile pf instead of West. Man, having P.Gasol, TD, and Bobon would be awful on switching and hard hedging.

[Kawhitstorm]

Exactly. Seems like it would've made more sense for him to opt out either way. It wouldn't count against the team's cap for the time being. If he decided he wanted to come back, Spurs could've offered him a 1-year deal for a similar amount, possibly more if/when they strike out on big name FAs.

Even if he opt-ed out his cap hold would still count against the cap, he would have to be renounced which means losing his Bird Right.

[Kawhitstorm]

I know for now that money is Boban's but I think SA might choose Pau over Boban.

Pau isn't choosing the Spurs unless Tim is going to be a player/coach like KG.:lol

[DPG21920]

There was no way Tim could have gotten paid more & given the Spurs flexibility by opting out b/c his cap hold is actually larger than his salary. If he got renounced then the Spurs would lose his Bird Right thus they can't go over the cap to re-sign him.

The only way it Tim could have given the Spurs flexibility was by getting renounced & basically playing for the room exception or vet min. PATFO are basically bringing back the old crew b/c they aren't ready to strike in 2016.

Disagree. Tim opting out & SA making the other moves (waiving non-guarantees and renouncing cap holds) gave the Spurs 20+M. They could have signed a 12-15M player, then given Tim the other 5M but in 2 year/10M (because he's renounced they would use the actual 5M in cap space they have). He would not only be making the same this year, but getting 5M next year (so 10M for this year essentially).

Even if they used all the cap space on FA's by renouncing Tim & he got the Room Exception that 2 year deal is still worth the same as his 1 year deal today so it's really not going backwards.

Then if SA whiffed on FA's and had the cap space, they just give Tim/Manu/West massive 1 year raises which solves that problem too.

There were plenty of ways Tim could have been no worse off or even much better off IMO.

The only concern is if he thought there was any chance that SA would not pay him if he opted out which seems really unlikely. Or - he knows he's going to retire which then he gets the 5M which seems likely to me.

[raybies]

For sure, but I was assuming that SA wanted the option for Boban in case things didn't work out with other top FA targets. With Tim's news along with Boris, trade & MLE are the only tools to improve. If they really want Pau, they may have to use MLE on him and that means by to Boban.

I know for now that money is Boban's but I think SA might choose Pau over Boban.

To me that would be a no-brainer. Interested in hearing others thoughts on this. Although I doubt Pau settles for that much less, when the market is so ripe with cash and he already has the rings so chasing a title might not be that high on his list. He would have to really want to be here, which apparently the signs point to yes. I just think the plan was to come here if the Spurs could free up cash and Duncan retired. He already respects the organization. I mean if the Spurs and GS both strike out on Durant and Pau has to decide between the Spurs and Warriors for the same money who do you choose? Golden State has a more diverse market and Pau already chose a bigger market before, although it was for a bigger deal. We'll see.

[DPG21920]

To me that would be a no-brainer. Interested in hearing others thoughts on this. Although I doubt Pau settles for that much less, when the market is so ripe with cash and he already has the rings so chasing a title might not be that high on his list. He would have to really want to be here, which apparently the signs point to yes. I just think the plan was to come here if the Spurs could free up cash and Duncan retired. He already respects the organization. I mean if the Spurs and GS both strike out on Durant and Pau has to decide between the Spurs and Warriors for the same money who do you choose? Golden State has a more diverse market and Pau already chose a bigger market before, although it was for a bigger deal. We'll see.

I agree overall - was just saying that in what I wrote (and what Chinook pointed out about Boban) I didn't think it was a lock Boban got the money if SA was really going to find success in luring someone like Pau (even if it's not likely)

[DPG21920]

We will see what Tim ends up doing; Woj nailed the Tim picking up his option thing subtly so him mentioning Tim might drag his decision into Free Agency is something to expect at this point (which sucks some for SA the team).

If he retires which I think is likely, SA is in a weird spot and we will see if they can even make any trades that make sense. I don't know how they would replace Tim and pay him his money without cap space and Boris being guaranteed. For that reason and others, I really hope Tim plays since that money is now spoken for anyways.

Seems like the band is getting back together (whether Tim plays or not) with minor tweaks like brining some of the younger stashes over to replace the older end of bench players.

I really hope SA doesn't stand pat beyond this year though - that would be really wasteful of LMA considering his age and could cause problems with him since he came to win titles.

[TheGoldStandard]

We will see what Tim ends up doing; Woj nailed the Tim picking up his option thing subtly so him mentioning Tim might drag his decision into Free Agency is something to expect at this point (which sucks some for SA the team).

If he retires which I think is likely, SA is in a weird spot and we will see if they can even make any trades that make sense. I don't know how they would replace Tim and pay him his money without cap space and Boris being guaranteed. For that reason and others, I really hope Tim plays since that money is now spoken for anyways.

Seems like the band is getting back together (whether Tim plays or not) with minor tweaks like brining some of the younger stashes over to replace the older end of bench players.

I really hope SA doesn't stand pat beyond this year though - that would be really wasteful of LMA considering his age and could cause problems with him since he came to win titles.

It also hurts there free agent pursuits because they will look back at how they handled the situation by not trying to improve roster to generate success..

[Chinook]

There was no way Tim could have gotten paid more & given the Spurs flexibility by opting out b/c his cap hold is actually larger than his salary. If he got renounced then the Spurs would lose his Bird Right thus they can't go over the cap to re-sign him.

The only way it Tim could have given the Spurs flexibility was by getting renounced & basically playing for the room exception or vet min. PATFO are basically bringing back the old crew b/c they aren't ready to strike in 2016.

Flexibility doesn't mean cap space. It means the ability to get cap space. Duncan's hold was almost completely irrelevant. With the moratorium, teams have plenty of time to work out details before they have to worry about the cap. With Duncan's contract locked into place, the team loses the ability to pitch a max slot with keeping the rest of their core intact. Maybe it was asking too much of Tim to opt out. But it definitely wasn't a good thing for the team's salary that he did.

Though we should have seen this coming with Manu. He's not playing for the min either if he comes back. The Spurs being over the cap means they really don't have to worry about his next contract. My guess is that the team is working with the tax as the hard cap this year. So they'll give Manu whatever is left after everything else happens.

[DPG21920]

Ya - this move with Tim/Boris is certainly a sign that SA does not believe they can get KD this year (maybe they think he won't leave until next year no matter what) or at all.

It's much harder to clear a path now for any big player that would say yes that the Spurs pursue.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

We will see what Tim ends up doing; Woj nailed the Tim picking up his option thing subtly so him mentioning Tim might drag his decision into Free Agency is something to expect at this point (which sucks some for SA the team).

If he retires which I think is likely, SA is in a weird spot and we will see if they can even make any trades that make sense. I don't know how they would replace Tim and pay him his money without cap space and Boris being guaranteed. For that reason and others, I really hope Tim plays since that money is now spoken for anyways.

Seems like the band is getting back together (whether Tim plays or not) with minor tweaks like brining some of the younger stashes over to replace the older end of bench players.

I really hope SA doesn't stand pat beyond this year though - that would be really wasteful of LMA considering his age and could cause problems with him since he came to win titles.

Why would he do this? I can't believe that Tim and the FO haven't extensively talked through what he's doing and what it means for the team - makes no sense at all given that they've all worked together for 19 years.

Looks like Spurs are running it back with much the same squad plus a few youngsters, which I don't mind given the lack of capspace, 2016 FA money-orgy, and extremely small chance that Durant would come to SA. Put a year of development into Murray and whichever Euro/s come over (looking like LJC and Bertans?), and make a splash in 2017.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Ya - this move with Tim/Boris is certainly a sign that SA does not believe they can get KD this year (maybe they think he won't leave until next year no matter what) or at all.

It's much harder to clear a path now for any big player that would say yes that the Spurs pursue.

KD is not leaving OKC this year. Makes no sense for him to do so, as you know. They were so close that he'll give them one more chance then think it through again next year when he can max out his salary. But you know this - don't overthink it! ;)

[DPG21920]

Why would he do this? I can't believe that Tim and the FO haven't extensively talked through what he's doing and what it means for the team - makes no sense at all given that they've all worked together for 19 years.

Looks like Spurs are running it back with much the same squad plus a few youngsters, which I don't mind given the lack of capspace, 2016 FA money-orgy, and extremely small chance that Durant would come to SA. Put a year of development into Murray and whichever Euro/s come over (looking like LJC and Bertans?), and make a splash in 2017.

Well, while I think that makes logical sense, I think Tim is really torn (like Woj mentioned). If he's leaning towards retirement then opting in makes sense so he can get paid his 5+M to retire (as was probably the agreement when he took the 1+1 deal last year).

I think Tim really is undecided on what he wants to do and opting in because of his deadline was the only thing he could do while he decides if he thinks retirement is a real possibility. He knows that it might limit SA's ability to build a better team this season if he ends up playing, but at some point he has to look out for himself as well. And it also seemed likely that SA wasn't going to land a big FA as well, so the flexibility to add players became less important too.

[DPG21920]

I just wonder how Kawhi/LMA feel about this if indeed SA doesn't improve and brings back the same squad but with several rookies?

I think if healthy (big if with TP/Manu/TD) SA is still a damn good team with the LMA/KL/DG core anchoring, but I can see that core being upset at the thought of wasting another year knowing they might not be good enough? Could create some problems.

SA front office in a weird spot right now with the old guard and doing right by them and the future. Luckily SA was damn good last year so people may think just some minor improvements (a young bench guy having a breakout year, KL getting better, Danny bouncing back, etc..) get SA to the top.

[Robz4000]

As long as Tim is back I'm good. Unless they got KD the team wouldn't be good enough to win without some lucky breaks, so lets see what happens. Maybe Kawhi finally becomes MJ 2.0?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Well, while I think that makes logical sense, I think Tim is really torn (like Woj mentioned). If he's leaning towards retirement then opting in makes sense so he can get paid his 5+M to retire (as was probably the agreement when he took the 1+1 deal last year).

I think Tim really is undecided on what he wants to do and opting in because of his deadline was the only thing he could do while he decides if he thinks retirement is a real possibility. He knows that it might limit SA's ability to build a better team this season if he ends up playing, but at some point he has to look out for himself as well. And it also seemed likely that SA wasn't going to land a big FA as well, so the flexibility to add players became less important too.

Over 5mil that the franchise would give him to do nothing as an "executive" in the FO if he asked? I don't see it. I think opting in means he wants to play.


I just wonder how Kawhi/LMA feel about this if indeed SA doesn't improve and brings back the same squad but with several rookies?

I think if healthy (big if with TP/Manu/TD) SA is still a damn good team with the LMA/KL/DG core anchoring, but I can see that core being upset at the thought of wasting another year knowing they might not be good enough? Could create some problems.

SA front office in a weird spot right now with the old guard and doing right by them and the future. Luckily SA was damn good last year so people may think just some minor improvements (a young bench guy having a breakout year, KL getting better, Danny bouncing back, etc..) get SA to the top.

Funny that we count it "wasting a year" if they don't make a splash. Even without any earth-shattering moves (which they aren't in a position to make anyway), this team will still be good for mid-50s+ wins and dark horse contention.

I'm sure the FO has discussed the situation with Kawhi, LMA, Timmy, TP and Manu and has a plan going forward.

History tells us they have a plan and know exactly what they're doing.

[DPG21920]

Over 5mil that the franchise would give him to do nothing as an "executive" in the FO if he asked? I don't see it. I think opting in means he wants to play.



Funny that we count it "wasting a year" if they don't make a splash. Even without any earth-shattering moves (which they aren't in a position to make anyway), this team will still be good for mid-50s+ wins and dark horse contention.

I'm sure the FO has discussed the situation with Kawhi, LMA, Timmy, TP and Manu and has a plan going forward.

History tells us they have a plan and know exactly what they're doing.

I agree overall and I have been one of the most vocal on here about SA being close (which many disagree). Just offering players possible perspective.

Losing how they did, with TP/Tim hobbled and Manu not contributing in the playoffs, I can see how LMA might view that as wasting a year since his goal is to win a title. I can see how he and Kawhi (and fans, even if I don't personally agree) can see it as a waste if they think they didn't improve their chances.

[TheGoldStandard]

I just wonder how Kawhi/LMA feel about this if indeed SA doesn't improve and brings back the same squad but with several rookies?

I think if healthy (big if with TP/Manu/TD) SA is still a damn good team with the LMA/KL/DG core anchoring, but I can see that core being upset at the thought of wasting another year knowing they might not be good enough? Could create some problems.

SA front office in a weird spot right now with the old guard and doing right by them and the future. Luckily SA was damn good last year so people may think just some minor improvements (a young bench guy having a breakout year, KL getting better, Danny bouncing back, etc..) get SA to the top.

I just don't see KD going through this hoopla another season.. If he stays with OKC he's going to take a deal that will make sure that he gets paid but he's committing for a long haul. Which means cap space or not there isn't a whole lot of 2017 FA's that move the needle either especially with other teams having crazy cap space too..

I don't see what a difference a year could make to a potential pitch for a real game changer on the team.. just the fact that there money obligations won't be tied up.

[SpursFan86]

Luckily SA was damn good last year so people may think just some minor improvements (a young bench guy having a breakout year, KL getting better, Danny bouncing back, etc..) get SA to the top.

I wish I could get behind this, but it's pretty wishful thinking IMO. Even if Duncan/Manu both come back, they'll be another year older and likely worse than they were last year. If Duncan doesn't come back, we're going to be struggling to land a starting caliber center. Parker and Diaw both aren't young and will be 34 next season - it wouldn't be shocking if they suffered a bit of a decline.

Even if those things you mentioned do happen (Kawhi improves even more, DG bounces back, etc.), I think it's pretty unlikely that this team is good enough to win a title next year if the plan is to just bring the same team back but with some new end-of-the-bench guys. It would require a lot of things going right with the bench (KA becomes a legitimately solid rotation player, Bertans proves to be a capable NBA player and contributes, Boban steps forward and becomes a legitimate full-time backup C).

Guess we'll wait and see what happens this offseason though. Maybe they manage to land a solid ringchaser on a vet minimum deal or something.

[DPG21920]

I really, really hope this doesn't lead to Danny Green being traded or something if SA is pursuing players (either dumping him for cap space or getting players back).

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I agree overall and I have been one of the most vocal on here about SA being close (which many disagree). Just offering players possible perspective.

Losing how they did, with TP/Tim hobbled and Manu not contributing in the playoffs, I can see how LMA might view that as wasting a year since his goal is to win a title. I can see how he and Kawhi (and fans, even if I don't personally agree) can see it as a waste if they think they didn't improve their chances.

I see what you're saying, but these guys (Kawhi, LMA, etc) are adults, and I'm sure they see the limitations of this off-season. I'm sure the FO would have laid out its plan for them so they understand. Better to make a big splash in 2017 than an ineffective ripple in 2016.

As for LMA, if he's unhappy I'd be more than fine with trading him. I don't like his game much anyway, and we could get a lot for him.

[Kawhitstorm]

Disagree. Tim opting out & SA making the other moves (waiving non-guarantees and renouncing cap holds) gave the Spurs 20+M. They could have signed a 12-15M player, then given Tim the other 5M but in 2 year/10M (because he's renounced they would use the actual 5M in cap space they have).

How in the hell is that different than Tim opting in?:lol It doesn't matter when Tim signs or in what order the other FAs sign if he's going to sign for basically the same amount after he's renounced.:lol

PATFO can basically still free up 12-15m by making other move, Tim opting-in has no impact on it since his Bird Right is useless.


The only concern is if he thought there was any chance that SA would not pay him if he opted out which seems really unlikely. Or - he knows he's going to retire which then he gets the 5M which seems likely to me.

That would be the ultimate slap in the face to LMA who's going to be reduced to playing alongside a vet min center.:lol

[TheGoldStandard]

I wish I could get behind this, but it's pretty wishful thinking IMO. Even if Duncan/Manu both come back, they'll be another year older and likely worse than they were last year. If Duncan doesn't come back, we're going to be struggling to land a starting caliber center. Parker and Diaw both aren't young and will be 34 next season - it wouldn't be shocking if they suffered a bit of a decline.

Even if those things you mentioned do happen (Kawhi improves even more, DG bounces back, etc.), I think it's pretty unlikely that this team is good enough to win a title next year if the plan is to just bring the same team back but with some new end-of-the-bench guys. It would require a lot of things going right with the bench (KA becomes a legitimately solid rotation player, Bertans proves to be a capable NBA player and contributes, Boban steps forward and becomes a legitimate full-time backup C).

Guess we'll wait and see what happens this offseason though. Maybe they manage to land a solid ringchaser on a vet minimum deal or something.

Get ready for Olapido torching Tony and what else can the Spurs do? throw patty Mills at him? lol..

[raybies]

At this point, my line-up that i would like to see all things considered, and that's with the likely scenario that Durant is not coming:

Parker/Mills/Murray
Green/Ginobili/Simmons
Leonard/Anderson/Bertans
Aldridge/Diaw/LJC
Pau/Duncan/Milutinov

If we sign Durant though:
Parker/Arcidiacono or Forbes/Murray
Leonard/Manu/Simmons
Durant/Anderson/Bertans
Aldridge/West/LJC
Duncan/Milutinov/LaLanne or Ndoye

I'll start from the PG and work my way down. First off, I chose Arcidiacono cause he is a four year player that just lead his team to a championship. There won't be too many mistakes from him and he'll be cheap. Granted I got to see him play summer league first but if he just plays solid and hits a majority of his open looks then that will be enough for his slot. You let him and Murray battle for the back up slot. Durant can play with the ball in his hands if he continues his shift that he had with OKC here, so you really just need a shooter like Arcidiacono or even Forbes if he surprises. Imo it's Ryan that will take the spot in this scenario.

SG- I think if we sign Durant, then Manu coming back on a minimum salary would be too good an opportunity to pass up but if he should retire a good alternative would be Jarret Jack. We'll be needing more playmakers and coming off an injury, he should be cheap. I'm not sure about Simmons. I would like to have another shooter like Forbes in a Gary Neal role but we'll see how he does in Summer League. I don't want to see him as an MVP but just as a role player doing things he would do with the varsity squad. Looking for leadership as others have stated, sound decision making, improved defensive techniques, and consistency knocking down the three. If he can be an energy boost off the bench as a third-stringer, I think he could make a career. Too low expectations?

SF - The question here is if we can afford Bertans. I doubt he takes the minimum when he makes more in Europe but his shooting would be greatly appealing and should prove very useful. He would definitely space the floor and if he could play in lineups like this in small ball, Arcidiacono or Forbes, Durant, Bertans, Leonard, and Aldridge, it should be a lineup of death.

PF - As i said with Manu, how can West pass up an opportunity like this. One more year with the guys, with the organization he admires, and another shot to win it all. He would have to accept the minimum but he would be in a great position. Maybe the Spurs offer a role in the FO if he plays one more year. Then you have LJC which most are really low on, but I think he's gonna have a positive career if he can just knock down the mid-range j. He already had a NBA trait in defense and rebounding so if he can clean up around the rim, block a few shots, and hit the occasional j he should prove quite serviceable.

C - Although I would like to see a more mobile center starting, Duncan almost assuredly comes back in this scenario. Having a guy like Milutinov off the bench who is mobile and roll after setting a screen would be a very versatile option. But our depth would be weak. Really weak. Here I listed, Lalanne and Ndoye as options but any have a minimum guy that is more versed in the league that could fill in here. Cady doesn't have the size I would like but he has a nice skill-set. As for Ndoye, he seems a year away from getting a shot. He's still pretty raw. If we are gonna go the really raw route and looking for size, I wouldn't mind giving Ibeh a shot. I know, Ibeh, but I haven't given up on him completely. I think he could be something special. He has elite physical tools. I have him a Ben Wallace ceiling. Ben wasn't drafted either but the difference is probably gonna be the motor and work ethic. Either way I just want to have Spurs name associated with him just to see the due diligence and know that they scouted him. Heck, the probably seen enough of him when he was at Texas, either way still got hope for him.

[Dex]

Tim Duncan can do whatever the hell Tim Duncan wants to do.

I hope he comes back...not ready for this ride to be over yet.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I wish I could get behind this, but it's pretty wishful thinking IMO. Even if Duncan/Manu both come back, they'll be another year older and likely worse than they were last year. If Duncan doesn't come back, we're going to be struggling to land a starting caliber center. Parker and Diaw both aren't young and will be 34 next season - it wouldn't be shocking if they suffered a bit of a decline.

Even if those things you mentioned do happen (Kawhi improves even more, DG bounces back, etc.), I think it's pretty unlikely that this team is good enough to win a title next year if the plan is to just bring the same team back but with some new end-of-the-bench guys. It would require a lot of things going right with the bench (KA becomes a legitimately solid rotation player, Bertans proves to be a capable NBA player and contributes, Boban steps forward and becomes a legitimate full-time backup C).

Guess we'll wait and see what happens this offseason though. Maybe they manage to land a solid ringchaser on a vet minimum deal or something.

What you say is fair, but if the ball bounces differently in a few plays at the end of games 2 and 5 we win that series 4-1 and face a banged up Dubs in the WCFs. We were literally a couple of bad luck plays away from winning that series. It won't take a whole lot to get back there.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I really, really hope this doesn't lead to Danny Green being traded or something if SA is pursuing players (either dumping him for cap space or getting players back).

Me too. He had a down year, but he's super-valuable on that reasonable contract, and I think he'll bounce back this year.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

At this point, my line-up that i would like to see all things considered, and that's with the likely scenario that Durant is not coming:

Parker/Mills/Murray
Green/Ginobili/Simmons
Leonard/Anderson/Bertans
Aldridge/Diaw/LJC
Pau/Duncan/Milutinov



Forget Durant. This looks like what the rost is shaping up to be, although probably Boban rather than Pau who we have no money to pay.

[SpursFan86]

What you say is fair, but if the ball bounces differently in a few plays at the end of games 2 and 5 we win that series 4-1 and face a banged up Dubs in the WCFs. We were literally a couple of bad luck plays away from winning that series. It won't take a whole lot to get back there.

That's true. But like I said, considering the age of so many key guys (Duncan, Manu, Parker, Diaw...that's half of the rotation potentially facing a decline), I don't think we'll be as good as we were last year if we just bring everyone back.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not steaming mad at the idea of PATFO standing pat and keeping everyone together. And I'm not saying they'd have no chance at all of winning a title. I just think it'd be a pretty big longshot. I certainly wouldn't feel too confident in our title chances.

I'd really like us to at least address one of the key issues from last year's team. The 3 biggest ones IMO were 1) lack of a playmaker/penetrator outside of Parker/Manu, both of whom are inconsistent, 2) lack of volume 3-point shooting, and 3) all of our bigs were immobile and struggled to guard the PnR.

[TheGoldStandard]

That's true. But like I said, considering the age of so many key guys (Duncan, Manu, Parker, Diaw...that's half of the rotation potentially facing a decline), I don't think we'll be as good as we were last year if we just bring everyone back.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not steaming mad at the idea of PATFO standing pat and keeping everyone together. And I'm not saying they'd have no chance at all of winning a title. I just think it'd be a pretty big longshot. I certainly wouldn't feel too confident in our title chances.

I'd really like us to at least address one of the key issues from last year's team. The 3 biggest ones IMO were 1) lack of a playmaker/penetrator outside of Parker/Manu, both of whom are inconsistent, 2) lack of volume 3-point shooting, and 3) all of our bigs were immobile and struggled to guard the PnR.

:pop: 1. Kyle Anderson, 2. Kyle Anderson and Maybe Bertans and 3. Kyle Anderson

[DPG21920]

Chinook - so let's assume a few things:

1. Tim either plays or retires but gets paid and not stretched (so his money counts this year against cap only is what I'm saying)

2. Boris (or anyone not traded)

3. Spurs simply waive Simmons and renounce all others that they can cap holds (the entire list)

Where does that leave the Spurs salary wise including roster charges?

My math has that at about 82M total salaries/roster charges? That would give SA 12M in cap space (roughly) and the following players:

LMA
Kawhi
Danny
Tim
TP
Boris
Kyle
Mills

But no: Simmons, Boban, Bonner, Manu, Miller, West, Martin, LJC, Milu or Murray.

Obviously doesn't seem likely, but sound accurate? If they can trade Boris, that gets them to about 19M in cap space still, but still having to replace all the players they renounced. Which we know they have talked about bringing in Bertans, keeping Boban, obviously brining back Manu, etc..

Seems like no cap space is the route.

[Kawhitstorm]

Guess we'll wait and see what happens this offseason though. Maybe they manage to land a solid ringchaser on a vet minimum deal or something.

The only "solid" ring chaser vet is Deng but dude is going to get max offers this summer. Nene is a guy that could sign for the vet min but dude is D-Worst status on the boards.:lol

[TheGoldStandard]

Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) - so let's assume a few things:

1. Tim either plays or retires but gets paid and not stretched (so his money counts this year against cap only is what I'm saying)

2. Boris (or anyone not traded)

3. Spurs simply waive Simmons and renounce all others that they can cap holds (the entire list)

Where does that leave the Spurs salary wise including roster charges?

My math has that at about 82M total salaries/roster charges? That would give SA 12M in cap space (roughly) and the following players:

LMA
Kawhi
Danny
Tim
TP
Boris
Kyle
Mills

But no: Simmons, Boban, Bonner, Manu, Miller, West, Martin, LJC, Milu or Murray.

Obviously doesn't seem likely, but sound accurate? If they can trade Boris, that gets them to about 19M in cap space still, but still having to replace all the players they renounced. Which we know they have talked about bringing in Bertans, keeping Boban, obviously brining back Manu, etc..

Seems like no cap space is the route.

:pop: Matty drove a pontiac for a long time.. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[DPG21920]

How in the hell is that different than Tim opting in?:lol It doesn't matter when Tim signs or in what order the other FAs sign if he's going to sign for basically the same amount after he's renounced.:lol

PATFO can basically still free up 12-15m by making other move, Tim opting-in has no impact on it since his Bird Right is useless.

You didn't say this last part in your first response - you seem to be changing gears now. What do you mean how is it different? Tim opting in this year gets Tim 5+M. Tim doing what I said gets him 10M - do you not see the difference. If Tim is playing like you think, then opting in cost him 5M in my scenario. But it's not just about that number. He could have taken less than he's getting this year (say 3M) but got 2 years at 3M per for 6M total and came out ahead. So even if worst case he had to take the Room Exception, he would be breaking even while having a way better shot at a title because of the flexibility afforded by him opting out.

I see what you are saying with regards to him opting in at 5M vs signing 5M doesn't hurt the would be flexibility unless he was willing to take less. The point was either way, opting in cost him money most likely and hurt chances to improve the team.

Tim opting in absolutely impacts the cap space and flexibility. Sure, SA can still create cap space, it just means trading players now which depletes talent and makes it harder.





That would be the ultimate slap in the face to LMA who's going to be reduced to playing alongside a vet min center.:lol

Well, we will see.

[Kawhitstorm]

What you say is fair, but if the ball bounces differently in a few plays at the end of games 2 and 5 we win that series 4-1 and face a banged up Dubs in the WCFs. We were literally a couple of bad luck plays away from winning that series. It won't take a whole lot to get back there.

If you want to ignore the dumb play by OKC at the end of Gm 2 & the bone headed turnovers in the last 2 minutes of Gm 3 then I guess you're right.:lol They weren't beating OKC w/ a broken down Tim as they had no answer for the Kanter/Adams duo.:rolleyes

[T Park]

Get ready for Olapido torching Tony and what else can the Spurs do? throw patty Mills at him? lol..



Torch him how? Making a shot outside 15 feet? That would be a first. They'd give him the Roberson treatment

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

That's true. But like I said, considering the age of so many key guys (Duncan, Manu, Parker, Diaw...that's half of the rotation potentially facing a decline), I don't think we'll be as good as we were last year if we just bring everyone back.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not steaming mad at the idea of PATFO standing pat and keeping everyone together. And I'm not saying they'd have no chance at all of winning a title. I just think it'd be a pretty big longshot. I certainly wouldn't feel too confident in our title chances.

I'd really like us to at least address one of the key issues from last year's team. The 3 biggest ones IMO were 1) lack of a playmaker/penetrator outside of Parker/Manu, both of whom are inconsistent, 2) lack of volume 3-point shooting, and 3) all of our bigs were immobile and struggled to guard the PnR.

Totally agree, but not much FO can do this summer given the cap and players available.

I'd still really like to see us trade Mills for MCW and Plumlee, which kinda plugs two holes (backup PG and mobile C) at once: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

It'd give Chip a year to see what he can do to rehab MCW's shot, and Plumlee is a decent pnr big. Not a bad stopgap until the team is properly rebuilt in 2017.

[TheGoldStandard]

Torch him how? Making a shot outside 15 feet? That would be a first. They'd give him the Roberson treatment

Honestly I think Oladipo can penetrate either off the ball or in the PnR.. Much different scenario than he was playing with in Orlando. OKC could have 3 legit ball handlers on the court at any given time and Vic is a much better player than Waiters.

[Kawhitstorm]

What do you mean how is it different? Tim opting in this year gets Tim 5+M. Tim doing what I said gets him 10M - do you not see the difference. If Tim is playing like you think, then opting in cost him 5M in my scenario. But it's not just about that number. He could have taken less than he's getting this year (say 3M) but got 2 years at 3M per for 6M total and came out ahead. So even if worst case he had to take the Room Exception, he would be breaking even while having a way better shot at a title because of the flexibility afforded by him opting out.

Basically, PATFO are planning on staying pat this summer but want to clear cap space for 2017 thus giving Tim a 1+1 would get in the way. It's just better to pay everyone this summer, let them enjoy their retirement tour (which won't include a champions) then reload next summer when Diaw/Patty/Tim/Manu will be off the books & PATFO won't have to worry about player options or dumping salaries.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

If you want to ignore the dumb play by OKC at the end of Gm 2 & the bone headed turnovers in the last 2 minutes of Gm 3 then I guess you're right.:lol They weren't beating OKC w/ a broken down Tim as they had no answer for the Kanter/Adams duo.:rolleyes

Dude, I watched every game twice, I know what happened. I was simply making the point that even with a broken Tim and a bench that didn't show up the series was very close. I don't think it's great that we have to bring back much the same team, but that's where we are and it'll still win 55 games.

Game 5 we should never have lost - LMA missed 2 bunnies, TP played hero-ball rather than going to Kawhi. And if we win that it's going 7 and we're a coin-flip to win it.

[T Park]

If you want to ignore the dumb play by OKC at the end of Gm 2 & the bone headed turnovers in the last 2 minutes of Gm 3 then I guess you're right.:lol They weren't beating OKC w/ a broken down Tim as they had no answer for the Kanter/Adams duo.:rolleyes



There's a difference between dumb plays and a bounce of the ball.....

[Kawhitstorm]

Game 5 we should never have lost - LMA missed 2 bunnies, TP played hero-ball rather than going to Kawhi. And if we win that it's going 7 and we're a coin-flip to win it.

Expecting Softridge to show up in GM 7 & Porker not to hero ball like he did in Gm 7 against the Cripples.:lmao

[T Park]

Honestly I think Oladipo can penetrate either off the ball or in the PnR.. Much different scenario than he was playing with in Orlando. OKC could have 3 legit ball handlers on the court at any given time and Vic is a much better player than Waiters.



So Russ shoots the outside shot or Roberson. Sounds good

[T Park]

Totally agree, but not much FO can do this summer given the cap and players available.

I'd still really like to see us trade Mills for MCW and Plumlee, which kinda plugs two holes (backup PG and mobile C) at once: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

It'd give Chip a year to see what he can do to rehab MCW's shot, and Plumlee is a decent pnr big. Not a bad stopgap until the team is properly rebuilt in 2017.



I do not understand this site's fascination with Carter-Williams and Plumlee.

They're complete stiffs

[TheGoldStandard]

Expecting Softridge to show up in GM 7 & Porker not to hero ball like he did in Gm 7 against the Cripples.:lmao

1/11 in his final french national game.. lol.. that's what we have to look forward to.

[Kawhitstorm]

There's a difference between dumb plays and a bounce of the ball.....

The ball did "bounce" of Durant's hands after Kawhi grabbed WestBrook's jersey to prevent him from catching the inbound.:lol

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Expecting Softridge to show up in GM 7 & Porker not to hero ball like he did in Gm 7 against the Cripples.:lmao

Come on dude, why we fightin? I din't expect anything. Just pointing out that the series was actually pretty close even with the Spurs playing like crap and the Thunder playing out of their skins.

[raybies]

1/11 in his final french national game.. lol.. that's what we have to look forward to.

oh my gosh :lol I didn't even see the box score. Has he had any decent games?

[Chinook]

I guess I should also note that the Spurs can use use cap space this summer, especially if they commit to using the room exception on Manu if he returns. They'll have $10,534,634 at least in space going into the summer. That's enough to sign a decent piece (and then to make further trades with cap space), but it's also enough to match Boban, sign Bertans and still have $3-6 Million to use on someone else -- while keeping Manu's old contract slot open. Obviously, you'd like to know about Manu ASAP, because the Spurs could get even more cap space if they push Boban over to the room exception (about $9 Million), enough to bring in a decent free agent even with the cap rising.

Let's look at one scenario:

Tim is retiring and intends to keep at least some of the money on his option. Manu has also decided that he's not coming back. The team intends to bring over LJC and keep Murray in the States. (Note: They tendered Boban here, but they aren't going to use his QO unless he signs it, so I'm leaving him out for this first bit.)

The Spurs' rotation looks like this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson,
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Duncan (contract), roster charge

They have $10,534,634 in space plus the room exception.


They also intend to sign Bertans on a three-year deal conveniently totaling $4,947,359. That give the Spurs exactly $9.5 Million to offer to Gasol. Then you sign Boban to the room exception to get this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic

(Don't worry about Arcidiacono right now. I would assume the team will ink him after all this is done.)

So they have Duncan's contract and potentially Diaw's and Patty's waiting in the wings. The obvious goal here is to pursue a two-guard with that contract. The exact amount of Tim's option is still up for debate. I have been considering it $5,643,750, which would mean the Spurs could take back up to $8,565,625 in return salary. That would be enough to get Lou Williams, Jodie Meeks, Jeremy Lamb or an Eric Gordon S&T. Combine him with Mills, and you get into Monta Ellis and Brandon Knight territory (up to $13,934,047). Let's just say Gordon because I've been saying him. Then you round out the roster with one or two min players. I'm going to say Lorbek here (since he's probably the most balanced option), but it could obviously be a guy like Cady or a ring-chaser like Scola.

So that leaves this roster minus camp contracts:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Gordon, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic, Lorbek

I like it. I don't think the defense would be particularly close to as good as it was this year. But the offense should be steadier. I don't love the bench, as it would rely on Anderson being the primary play-maker from the worse position in the game to run an offense. I'd like it a lot more with a faster center and more shooting from the front court. But I think it's pretty good for a transitional year. No one can say it's too small, but I'd like more from the guards still. Shooting wouldn't be an issue anymore. Adding Mills and getting Knight would be more ideal, so long as the team could get a steady PG for the min from somewhere (Europe?). Anderson moving to the four would also help if Diaw can be moved for something.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I do not understand this site's fascination with Carter-Williams and Plumlee.

They're complete stiffs

No-one was talking about MCW until I brought him up, so blame me! :lol

MCW's still young, long, athletic, pretty good defender and rebounder, can dish, can't shoot for shit - but he's a low risk to become a high reward if he takes to the system and works hard with the development staff. Diamond in the rough IMHO, and I think Spurs could turn him into Sean Livingston+. Worth a gamble when all we lose is a streaky backup PG who seems to have lost his mojo somewhat.

Plumlee would be a stop-gap for one year.

And we get two guys for one.

[TheGoldStandard]

oh my gosh :lol I didn't even see the box score. Has he had any decent games?

The apologists will state that he did have 6 assists.. lol.. He had some decent ones back in 2013

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

The ball did "bounce" of Durant's hands after Kawhi grabbed WestBrook's jersey to prevent him from catching the inbound.:lol

...after Waiters shoved Manu who had stepped inbounds... :lmao

[SD126]

No-one was talking about MCW until I brought him up, so blame me! :lol

MCW's still young, long, athletic, pretty good defender and rebounder, can dish, can't shoot for shit - but he's a low risk to become a high reward if he takes to the system and works hard with the development staff. Diamond in the rough IMHO, and I think Spurs could turn him into Sean Livingston+. Worth a gamble when all we lose is a streaky backup PG who seems to have lost his mojo somewhat.

Plumlee would be a stop-gap for one year.

And we get two guys for one.

Drafting Murray makes going after MCW moot. But it's not like PATFO has interest to begin with.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I guess I should also note that the Spurs can use use cap space this summer, especially if they commit to using the room exception on Manu if he returns. They'll have $10,534,634 at least in space going into the summer. That's enough to sign a decent piece (and then to make further trades with cap space), but it's also enough to match Boban, sign Bertans and still have $3-6 Million to use on someone else -- while keeping Manu's old contract slot open. Obviously, you'd like to know about Manu ASAP, because the Spurs could get even more cap space if they push Boban over to the room exception (about $9 Million), enough to bring in a decent free agent even with the cap rising.

Let's look at one scenario:

Tim is retiring and intends to keep at least some of the money on his option. Manu has also decided that he's not coming back. The team intends to bring over LJC and keep Murray in the States. (Note: They tendered Boban here, but they aren't going to use his QO unless he signs it, so I'm leaving him out for this first bit.)

The Spurs' rotation looks like this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson,
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Duncan (contract), roster charge

They have $10,534,634 in space plus the room exception.


They also intend to sign Bertans on a three-year deal conveniently totaling $4,947,359. That give the Spurs exactly $9.5 Million to offer to Gasol. Then you sign Boban to the room exception to get this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic

(Don't worry about Arcidiacono right now. I would assume the team will ink him after all this is done.)

So they have Duncan's contract and potentially Diaw's and Patty's waiting in the wings. The obvious goal here is to pursue a two-guard with that contract. The exact amount of Tim's option is still up for debate. I have been considering it $5,643,750, which would mean the Spurs could take back up to $8,565,625 in return salary. That would be enough to get Lou Williams, Jodie Meeks, Jeremy Lamb or an Eric Gordon S&T. Combine him with Mills, and you get into Monta Ellis and Brandon Knight territory (up to $13,934,047). Let's just say Gordon because I've been saying him. Then you round out the roster with one or two min players. I'm going to say Lorbek here (since he's probably the most balanced option), but it could obviously be a guy like Cady or a ring-chaser like Scola.

So that leaves this roster minus camp contracts:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Gordon, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic, Lorbek

I like it. I don't think the defense would be particularly close to as good as it was this year. But the offense should be steadier. I don't love the bench, as it would rely on Anderson being the primary play-maker from the worse position in the game to run an offense. I'd like it a lot more with a faster center and more shooting from the front court. But I think it's pretty good for a transitional year. No one can say it's too small, but I'd like more from the guards still. Shooting wouldn't be an issue anymore. Adding Mills and getting Knight would be more ideal, so long as the team could get a steady PG for the min from somewhere (Europe?). Anderson moving to the four would also help if Diaw can be moved for something.

Interesting rundown, thanks. :tu

You should go for an assistant GM position. :)

[T Park]

No-one was talking about MCW until I brought him up, so blame me! :lol

MCW's still young, long, athletic, pretty good defender and rebounder, can dish, can't shoot for shit - but he's a low risk to become a high reward if he takes to the system and works hard with the development staff. Diamond in the rough IMHO, and I think Spurs could turn him into Sean Livingston+. Worth a gamble when all we lose is a streaky backup PG who seems to have lost his mojo somewhat.

Plumlee would be a stop-gap for one year.

And we get two guys for one.


None of this makes any sense at all to justify Carter-Williams.

Also, Plumlee sucks. Period. Sucks. Sucks so bad that he could barely get run with a shit team in Milwaukee.


He's a white Jeff Ayres.

[raybies]

The apologists will state that he did have 6 assists.. lol.. He had some decent ones back in 2013

Wow, so the sticks are already starting to fall. I'm not sure I want to make this bold prediction yet, but i've said previously that how ironic it would be for Murray to take Parker's spot, like Parker took Daniels' spot in '01. Both rookies, about the same age. We'll see. Next step is Murray playing Summer League and showing some improvement.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Drafting Murray makes going after MCW moot. But it's not like PATFO has interest to begin with.

Not this year it doesn't. Murray won't be contributing much for a while.

And if MCW does improve, would't you love to have 2 long PG/combos in 2017 and beyond?