Happy 4th tbh

[Thebesteva]

Anyone have any special plans? Im just going to get drunk as usual and light some fireworks while everyone asks me why I'm not married yet tbh

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Can we ship you guys Parker & Rolando McClain for a box of fireworks?

[Thebesteva]

Can we ship you guys Parker & Rolando McClain for a box of fireworks?

Only if you take Russell and Jimbo off our hands

[DMC]

Anyone have any special plans? Im just going to get drunk as usual and light some fireworks while everyone asks me why I'm not married yet tbh
Don't forget the bed pans.

[Splits]

It's gotta be the stupidest holiday ever.

Q: What are you celebrating?

A: Muh indapendance!

Q: From whom?

A: The British!

Q: You mean your closest ally?

A: Hurrr durrr.... Who? Durrrr lemme drink this budweiser

Nationalism is the worst of all 'isms

[midnightpulp]

It's gotta be the stupidest holiday ever.

Q: What are you celebrating?

A: Muh indapendance!

Q: From whom?

A: The British!

Q: You mean your closest ally?

A: Who? Duhhhhhh lemme drink this budweiser

Nationalism is the worst of all 'isms

A "against all forms of imperialism" person like yourself should actually celebrate this holiday more than most, since taking the colonies from the British was the first domino to fall that eventually led to the dissolution of their empire. Just imagine if we sat on our hands? The British would've eventually conquered all of North America, and them controlling this land, with all its natural resources and perfect geopolitical location (meaning sharing no borders with a France or Germany, basically making the land uninvadeable), in addition to controlling India and British Hong Kong (which gave them a strategic position should they ever want to take over China wholesale), would basically give them control of the entire world.

Complain about US foreign policy all you want, but we come nowhere close to ruling with the iron fist the British Empire did.

[DeadlyDynasty]

It's gotta be the stupidest holiday ever.

Q: What are you celebrating?

A: Muh indapendance!

Q: From whom?

A: The British!

Q: You mean your closest ally?

A: Hurrr durrr.... Who? Durrrr lemme drink this budweiser

Nationalism is the worst of all 'isms
For a guy whose circle of friends and coworkers is only currybreaths, you should be celebrating any holiday that denigrates the British.

[midnightpulp]

For a guy whose circle of friends and coworkers is only currybreaths, you should be celebrating any holiday that denigrates the British.

Splits is my dude, but I just don't get his fervent anti-Americanism?

He's correct that Nationalism is the worst of all -isms, but we're talking about patriotism here, which is a totally different thing.

I know he'll talk about our foreign policy as the reason for his positions, but when you compare us to every other Empire/Superpower in human history, we're relative angels. This isn't an excuse for some of our geopolitical fuckups, but the US isn't unique nor are the "enlightened, tolerant, progressive" nations of Europe blameless. In fact, trace the cause of all these hotbed geopolitical situations around the world, and you can all trace the source of the poverty, violence, civil wars, etc, etc to European meddling.

We were also perfectly content to remain isolationist with our burgers and baseball, but the "progressive, enlightened, tolerant, and peace-loving" Europeans kept drawing us into their shit.

So we had to assume the throne, because when Europe ran things in the 20th century, it was a multi-million genocide of a people seemingly every decade. Why do you think the first huge wave of immigrants were Europeans? Such a progressive place to live :tu

[DeadlyDynasty]

Splits is my dude, but I just don't get his fervent anti-Americanism?

He's correct that Nationalism is the worst of all -isms, but we're talking about patriotism here, which is a totally different thing.

I know he'll talk about our foreign policy as the reason for his positions, but when you compare us to every other Empire/Superpower in human history, we're relative angels. This isn't excuse for some of our geopolitical fuckups, but the US isn't unique nor are the "enlightened, tolerant, progressive" nations of Europe blameless. In fact, trace the cause of all these hotbed geopolitical situations around the world, and you can all trace the source of the poverty, violence, civil wars, etc, etc to European meddling.

We were also perfectly content to remain isolationist with our burgers and baseball, but the "progressive, enlightened, tolerant, and peace-loving" Europeans kept drawing us into their shit.

So we had to assume the throne, because when Europe ran things in the 20th century, it was a multi-million genocide of a people seemingly every decade. Why do you think the first huge wave of immigrants were Europeans? Such a progressive place to live :tu
History has shown us that Communism has killed exponentially more people than Nationalism

[midnightpulp]

History has shown us that Communism has killed exponentially more people than Nationalism

I would say that Soviet Communism and Maoism were underpinned by a frothing-at-the-mouth nationalism.

I define nationalism as a blind love of country that deludes a person into believing whatever their country does is always morally right.

Patriotism I would define as a "tough love" of country. You're aware of your country's faults and you want to know what you can do to help fix them.

That said, a lot issues aren't simple black-and-white affairs.

[Clipper Nation]

Splits is my dude, but I just don't get his fervent anti-Americanism?
He's a fully cucked leftist, and America isn't socialist enough for him.

[Clipper Nation]

He's correct that Nationalism is the worst of all -isms, but we're talking about patriotism here, which is a totally different thing.
No he isn't. Nationalism in moderation is a good thing, as long as you don't go full Nazi. Globalism has been a dumpster fire. And patriotism is just nationalism on an individual scale.

[baseline bum]

Anyone have any special plans? Im just going to get drunk as usual and light some fireworks while everyone asks me why I'm not married yet tbh

What's the problem? The Supreme Court gave you the right to marry a few months ago.

[midnightpulp]

No he isn't. Nationalism in moderation is a good thing, as long as you don't go full Nazi. Globalism has been a dumpster fire. And patriotism is just nationalism on an individual scale.

I think Splits was talking about the Nazi form of Nationalism, as was I. The idea that your country is superior to all and you have the given right to expand into and subjugate other lands.

I take it you're talking about Civic Nationalism?

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Only if you take Russell and Jimbo off our hands

Throw us Jared Goff & Aaron Donald then

[Splits]

I define nationalism as a blind love of country that deludes a person into believing whatever their country does is always morally right.

i.e. today's America

[Splits]

I think Splits was talking about the Nazi form of Nationalism, as was I. The idea that your country is superior to all and you have the given right to expand into and subjugate other lands.

I take it you're talking about Civic Nationalism?

Acting like CN has any idea what you're talking about :lol

He's Donald Jr. Has the intellectual depth of puddle.

[Thread]

Acting like CN has any idea what you're talking about :lol

He's Donald Jr. Has the intellectual depth of puddle.

Mornin', Shits.

[Splits]

Mornin', Shits.

It's afternoon, fuckstick.

[Thread]

It's afternoon, fuckstick.

Not here, sweetheart. It's morning and Durant ain't comin' to San Antonio.

How do you like that, Shits?

[whitemamba]

History has shown us that Communism has killed exponentially more people than Nationalism

The US has more blood on its hands than any other government. You guys need to wake the fuck up.

[Splits]

Not here, sweetheart. It's morning and Durant ain't comin' to San Antonio.

How do you like that, Shits?

Just because you were lucky to wake up one last time does not make it morning. Hopefully it was one of your last.

And I love your Los Angeles Worriers, means we only have 1 team to beat.

[midnightpulp]

The US has more blood on its hands than any other government. You guys need to wake the fuck up.

Let me know when the US kills 50 million of its own people in purges.

You need to the wake the fuck up and quit buying into moonbat propaganda, as I've told you before.

Feel free to provide evidence, though, that the US government has killed more people than the English Government, German Governments, Russian Governments, Maoist Government, North Korean Government, etc.

[Thread]

Just because you were lucky to wake up one last time does not make it morning. Hopefully it was one of your last.

And I love your Los Angeles Worriers, means we only have 1 team to beat.

Go on, angel, make that silk purse outta that sow's ear.

tee, hee.

[Splits]

Let me know when the US kills 50 million of its own people in purges.

You need to the wake the fuck up and quit buying into moonbat propaganda, as I've told you before.

Feel free to provide evidence, though, that the US government has killed more people than the English Government, German Governments, Russian Governments, Maoist Government, North Korean Government, etc.

In the last 15 years?

:lol nationalist gonna Nationalist

[Splits]

Go on, angel, make that silk purse outta that sow's ear.

tee, hee.

You going with the authentic Curry jersey or going to buy the fake Chinese Durant gear?

[Thread]

You going with the authentic Curry jersey or going to buy the fake Chinese Durant gear?

I don't do shit.

It's my religion.

[Splits]

I don't do shit.

It's my religion.

Religion is for pussies who can't think for themselves.

[Thread]

Religion is for pussies who can't think for themselves.

:rolleyes

[midnightpulp]

In the last 15 years?

:lol nationalist gonna Nationalist

He didn't specify a timeline.

Moonbat gonna moonbat.

:cry "US is the ebilest country evar. Dey dropped bum on innocent Japan" :cry

(the fun fact left out here is the Japs killing nearly 10 million Chinese. But we're the bad guys).

[Thread]

He didn't specify a timeline.

Moonbat gonna moonbat.

:cry "US is the ebilest country evar. Dey dropped bum on innocent Japan" :cry

(the fun fact left out here is the Japs killing nearly 10 million Chinese. But we're the bad guys).

You ain't so cute this morning, Midst.

First the D'Backs lose to the Giants, now Durant comes to San Francisco.

Look at me, Midst, I'm dancin'!!!

[midnightpulp]

You ain't so cute this morning, Midst.

First the D'Backs lose to the Giants, now Durant comes to San Francisco.

Look at me, Midst, I'm dancin'!!!

I get irritated when people spout unfactual bullshit. Whitemamba did such, and it thus irritated me. For supposedly being an "enlightened" individual who is above us deluded sheep, he sure has a shit knowledge of history.

I'm sure he'll spin now and make the timeline "the last 15 years," but he was referring to DD's post that mentioned "in history," so he was obviously talking about over the United States' history.

[whitemamba]

Let me know when the US kills 50 million of its own people in purges.

You need to the wake the fuck up and quit buying into moonbat propaganda, as I've told you before.

Feel free to provide evidence, though, that the US government has killed more people than the English Government, German Governments, Russian Governments, Maoist Government, North Korean Government, etc.

Every fucking time the US Army leaves the these borders to go "promote democracy," they kill scores of people. From all the way back from WW1 till today. Every death in the middle east is on the US. Every black kid and non white person that is killed by police and has been ( only reason people know now is because of techonology and social meda) on the us. Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Proxy Wars in South America, The list goes on and on. So you need to wake the fuck up and stop living in these fanatsy situation where we do no wrong. Drone strikes, forcing people out of their homes. Hoax after hoax. I just laught at people like you at this point.

[Thread]

I get irritated when people spout unfactual bullshit. Whitemamba did such, and it thus irritated me. For supposedly being an "enlightened" individual who is above us deluded sheep, he sure has a shit knowledge of history.

I'm sure he'll spin now and make the timeline "the last 15 years," but he was referring to DD's post that mentioned "in history," so he was obviously talking about over the United States' history.

Horseshit! I'm callin' ass. It's a smokescreen to hide the Durant signing/Duncan retirement disappointment you're suffering.

GD you, Midst.

Just suffer, in public, like I've taught you.

[midnightpulp]

Every fucking time the US Army leaves the these borders to go "promote democracy," they kill scores of people. From all the way back from WW1 till today. Every death in the middle east is on the US. Every black kid and non white person that is killed by police and has been ( only reason people know now is because of techonology and social meda) on the us. Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Proxy Wars in South America, The list goes on and on. So you need to wake the fuck up and stop living in these fanatsy situation where we do no wrong. Drone strikes, forcing people out of their homes. Hoax after hoax. I just laught at people like you at this point.

Prove it with fuckin' numbers then. All you're doing is speculating and mentioning situations that EVERY COUNTRY HAS BEEN GUILTY OF THROUGHOUT HISTORY.

And since World War 1. Fucking seriously? We were late to that war, in addition to largely being war fought in trenches away from civilian soft target areas, but somehow we were the fuckin' bad guys in a war Europe started. Somehow we were the fuckin' bad guys when the Germans introduced the whole world to chemical weapons.

Here's some statistics for you:

World War 1 casualties:

Allied casualties: 6 million, most at the hands of the Germans.

World War 2 civilian casualties:

China: 7-8 million (at the hands of the Japanese)

Korea: 500,000 (Japanese)

Soviet Union: 10 million (at the hands of the Germans)

France: 390,000 (Germans)

Poland: 6 million (Germans)

And these totals don't even account for war related famine and disease, which puts many millions more on the death toll.

Oh, you want to talk about institutional racism against minorities?

http://www.ibtimes.com/bengal-famine-1943-man-made-holocaust-1100525

3 million dead.

And :lol every death is on the US in the Middle East when we've only been meddling in the region for about 60 years. Again, go pick up a fucking book or two or three and read about the Middle East/Europe conflict that goes back over 800 years.

"But every death is on us."

Seriously, where do you get your shit? Your opinions are like those of uninformed rebellious child who thinks he's some tolerant crusader of justice because he saw a Michael Moore movie once.

You really don't know shit.

[Splits]

Prove it with fuckin' numbers then. All you're doing is speculating and mentioning situations that EVERY COUNTRY HAS BEEN GUILTY OF THROUGHOUT HISTORY.

And since World War 1. Fucking seriously? We were late to that war, in addition to largely being war fought in trenches away from civilian soft target areas, but somehow we were the fuckin' bad guys in a war Europe started. Somehow we were the fuckin' bad guys when the Germans introduced the whole world to chemical weapons.

Here's some statistics for you:

World War 1 casualties:

Allied casualties: 6 million, most at the hands of the Germans.

World War 2 civilian casualties:

China: 7-8 million (at the hands of the Japanese)

Korea: 500,000 (Japanese)

Soviet Union: 10 million (at the hands of the Germans)

France: 390,000 (Germans)

Poland: 6 million (Germans)

And these totals don't even account for war related famine and disease, which puts many millions more on the death toll.

Oh, you want to talk about institutional racism against minorities?

http://www.ibtimes.com/bengal-famine-1943-man-made-holocaust-1100525

3 million dead.

And :lol every death is on the US in the Middle East when we've only been meddling in the region for about 60 years. Again, go pick up a fucking book or two or three and read about the Middle East/Europe conflict that goes back over 800 years.

"But every death is on us."

Seriously, where do you get your shit? Your opinions are like those of uninformed rebellious child who thinks he's some tolerant crusader of justice because he saw a Michael Moore movie once.

You really don't know shit.

Your framing is your problem. You want to compare numbers/atrocities in a vacuum and be the "but other people are worse" guy, which is morally repugnant.

Chomsky:

My own concern is primarily the terror and violence carried out by my own state, for two reasons. For one thing, because it happens to be the larger component of international violence. But also for a much more important reason than that; namely, I can do something about it. So even if the U.S. was responsible for 2 percent of the violence in the world instead of the majority of it, it would be that 2 percent I would be primarily responsible for. And that is a simple ethical judgment. That is, the ethical value of one’s actions depends on their anticipated and predictable consequences.

It is very easy to denounce the atrocities of someone else. That has about as much ethical value as denouncing atrocities that took place in the 18th century.
The point is that the useful and significant political actions are those that have consequences for human beings. And those are overwhelmingly the actions which you have some way of influencing and controlling, which mean for me, American actions.

Orwell:

All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts. A British Tory will defend self-determination in Europe and oppose it in India with no feeling of inconsistency. Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage — torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians — which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by ‘our’ side. . . . The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.

Meanwhile, your candidate is openly opining for waterboarding and "much worse" forms of torture.

Good luck with that.

[midnightpulp]

Your framing is the problem. You want to compare numbers/atrocities in a vacuum and be the "but other people are worse" guy, which is morally repugnant.

Chomsky:


Orwell:

No, bro. I am debunking his claim that US holds the highest body count of any country in human history, a claim which any rational person knows is completely false.

I've already made my opinions known on our foreign policy: Non-interventionist. A true national defense over a national offense. Close down bases in countries that don't want us there. End foreign aid to Israel.

But when someone makes the retarded claim that the United States is the source of all death in the world since World War 1 (a claim I find laughable, since we were but a small part of that war, not to mention the fact we fought on the right side), I'm going to set that person straight.

As much as you don't like blind nationalism, I don't like blind anti-Americanism.

[midnightpulp]

Your framing is your problem. You want to compare numbers/atrocities in a vacuum and be the "but other people are worse" guy, which is morally repugnant.

Chomsky:


Orwell:


Meanwhile, your candidate is openly opining for waterboarding and "much worse" forms of torture.

Good luck with that.

I missed you adding this. Here we go again with this bullshit.

"He's not a fervent anti-American, so he must be a rightwing redneck Trump supporter."

We might as well just leave this thread and celebrate the Gasol acquisition rather than talk politics, since you jump to that same kneejerk conclusion every time. The world isn't neatly divided into a simplistic right/left dichotomy.

[whitemamba]

Prove it with fuckin' numbers then. All you're doing is speculating and mentioning situations that EVERY COUNTRY HAS BEEN GUILTY OF THROUGHOUT HISTORY.

And since World War 1. Fucking seriously? We were late to that war, in addition to largely being war fought in trenches away from civilian soft target areas, but somehow we were the fuckin' bad guys in a war Europe started. Somehow we were the fuckin' bad guys when the Germans introduced the whole world to chemical weapons.

Here's some statistics for you:

World War 1 casualties:

Allied casualties: 6 million, most at the hands of the Germans.

World War 2 civilian casualties:

China: 7-8 million (at the hands of the Japanese)

Korea: 500,000 (Japanese)

Soviet Union: 10 million (at the hands of the Germans)

France: 390,000 (Germans)

Poland: 6 million (Germans)

And these totals don't even account for war related famine and disease, which puts many millions more on the death toll.

Oh, you want to talk about institutional racism against minorities?

http://www.ibtimes.com/bengal-famine-1943-man-made-holocaust-1100525

3 million dead.

And :lol every death is on the US in the Middle East when we've only been meddling in the region for about 60 years. Again, go pick up a fucking book or two or three and read about the Middle East/Europe conflict that goes back over 800 years.

"But every death is on us."

Seriously, where do you get your shit? Your opinions are like those of uninformed rebellious child who thinks he's some tolerant crusader of justice because he saw a Michael Moore movie once.

You really don't know shit.

WW2, we were involved dumbass dont forget that, 58% of the deaths were the allied forces(total estimated 50- 80 million (O yeah, the US didnt notice an entire fucking aerial fleet coming to its base:lol). Yes the middle east conflict goes back further than 800 years, but in the last "60" we managed to be responsible for millions.

Iraq - Just from 2003-2007 1.3 million est. and counting.
Syria 2011-today over half a million est. and counting.
Afghanistan 150,000 (non service men included) have died during their war. and counting.
Libya 25K and counting.
Vietnam estimated 1.3 million total deaths.
Iran vs Iraq war estimated 500K dead. (US supported you know who)
Cops killing americans on average of 85 a month according to the guardian , thats been going on for a long time.
9/11 Dont even get me started. So much god damn evidence, going agianst the US government its sick. But no no no, American can do no wrong, we are a model country. Fucking dumbass living in the past.
You need to get your brainwashed head out the shitter,

[Splits]

No, bro. I am debunking his claim that US holds the highest body count of any country in human history, a claim which any rational person knows is completely false.

I've already made my opinions known on our foreign policy: Non-interventionist. A true national defense over a national offense. Close down bases in countries that don't want us there. End foreign aid to Israel.

But when someone makes the retarded claim that the United States is the source of all death in the world since World War 1 (a claim I find laughable, since we were but a small part of that war, not to mention the fact we fought on the right side), I'm going to set that person straight.

As much as you don't like blind nationalism, I don't like blind anti-Americanism.

You spend WAY more time defending US foreign policy and excusing the mass death it causes by trying to shift focus on "others", hence minimizing what is done in your name. You know what? You have no control over what other governments, current or historical, do or did. You do have a voice in what your government does and continues to do. But you choose to focus on why "we're not that bad" instead of how we could be better.

[Splits]

I missed you adding this. Here we go again with this bullshit.

"He's not a fervent anti-American, so he must be a rightwing redneck Trump supporter."

We might as well just leave this thread and celebrate the Gasol acquisition rather than talk politics, since you jump to that same kneejerk conclusion every time. The world isn't neatly divided into a simplistic right/left dichotomy.

So you're not in the "Japan waterboarded too!" camp? Good to know.

[midnightpulp]

You spend WAY more time defending US foreign policy and excusing the mass death it causes by trying to shift focus on "others", hence minimizing what is done in your name. You know what? You have no control over what other governments, current or historical, do or did. You do have a voice in what your government does and continues to do. But you choose to focus on why "we're not that bad" instead of how we could be better.

I've never defended US foreign policy. I just straight told you in that reply I'm non-interventionist.

00: Voted for Gore
04: Kerry
08: Ron Paul (I knew about "O'Bomba's" foreign policy)
12: non-Vote. Both candidates are dipshits.
16: Hillary, to keep Trump out of office.

[whitemamba]

You spend WAY more time defending US foreign policy and excusing the mass death it causes by trying to shift focus on "others", hence minimizing what is done in your name. You know what? You have no control over what other governments, current or historical, do or did. You do have a voice in what your government does and continues to do. But you choose to focus on why "we're not that bad" instead of how we could be better.

:tu
Thinking they have done no wrong, or admitting to the mistakes made is huge. Multiple news polls were done about the most hated countries in the world 2015.. You guessed it..

USA
Israel

http://www.abcnewspoint.com/top-10-list-of-most-hated-countries-in-the-world-2015/

I wonder why? Is it because we do nothing? Everything we do is great .

[Splits]

WW2, we were involved dumbass dont forget that, 58% of the deaths were the allied forces(total estimated 50- 80 million (O yeah, the US didnt notice an entire fucking aerial fleet coming to its base:lol). Yes the middle east conflict goes back further than 800 years, but in the last "60" we managed to be responsible for millions.

Iraq - Just from 2003-2007 1.3 million est. and counting.
Syria 2011-today over half a million est. and counting.
Afghanistan 150,000 (non service men included) have died during their war. and counting.
Libya 25K and counting.
Vietnam estimated 1.3 million total deaths.
Iran vs Iraq war estimated 500K dead. (US supported you know who)
Cops killing americans on average of 85 a month according to the guardian , thats been going on for a long time.
9/11 Dont even get me started. So much god damn evidence, going agianst the US government its sick. But no no no, American can do no wrong, we are a model country. Fucking dumbass living in the past.
You need to get your brainwashed head out the shitter,

You forgot Yemen.

[whitemamba]

You forgot Yemen.

:toast

Theres plenty of little wars I didnt mention, South America, some in Asia.

[Splits]

I've never defended US foreign policy.

You constantly defend it. Every time this debate pops up, you change the conversation to about how BAD other countries are. Guess what, you have zero influence over those shitheads. You can't march on Pyongyang or Moscow or Tehran. You can march on DC.


My own concern is primarily the terror and violence carried out by my own state, for two reasons. For one thing, because it happens to be the larger component of international violence. But also for a much more important reason than that; namely, I can do something about it. So even if the U.S. was responsible for 2 percent of the violence in the world instead of the majority of it, it would be that 2 percent I would be primarily responsible for. And that is a simple ethical judgment. That is, the ethical value of one’s actions depends on their anticipated and predictable consequences.

It is very easy to denounce the atrocities of someone else. That has about as much ethical value as denouncing atrocities that took place in the 18th century.
The point is that the useful and significant political actions are those that have consequences for human beings. And those are overwhelmingly the actions which you have some way of influencing and controlling, which mean for me, American actions.

[midnightpulp]

WW2, we were involved dumbass dont forget that, 58% of the deaths were the allied forces(total estimated 50- 80 million (O yeah, the US didnt notice an entire fucking aerial fleet coming to its base:lol). Yes the middle east conflict goes back further than 800 years, but in the last "60" we managed to be responsible for millions.

Iraq - Just from 2003-2007 1.3 million est. and counting.
Syria 2011-today over half a million est. and counting.
Afghanistan 150,000 (non service men included) have died during their war. and counting.
Libya 25K and counting.
Vietnam estimated 1.3 million total deaths.
Iran vs Iraq war estimated 500K dead. (US supported you know who)
Cops killing americans on average of 85 a month according to the guardian , thats been going on for a long time.
9/11 Dont even get me started. So much god damn evidence, going agianst the US government its sick. But no no no, American can do no wrong, we are a model country. Fucking dumbass living in the past.
You need to get your brainwashed head out the shitter,

You are a massively stupid, stupid person. That number is the TOTAL number of casualties. So, please, tell me how we're responsible for 80 million deaths resulting from a war we didn't start, and a war in which we entered 2 years after its official start?

I'll already told you I'm against US foreign policy, dumbass. This debate centered around your massively stupid claim that the US has more blood on their hands than any country in history, which even a retard knows is false.

You want to walk back that claim, or are you going to continue being a dipshit?

[midnightpulp]

You constantly defend it. Every time this debate pops up, you change the conversation to about how BAD other countries are. Guess what, you have zero influence over those shitheads. You can't march on Pyongyang or Moscow or Tehran. You can march on DC.

Post a quote of me saying I defended the Iraq War and War on Terror?

Don't you clearly remember me saying that I believed the War on Terror should've been fought like the FBI fought the mafia?

I did defend our actions in South Korea (they were invaded by an aggressive, Stalin backed North Korean force. So in that instance, to standby and do nothing would've been the moral wrong).

And Ho Chin was a wannabe Uncle Joe who wanted to unite Vietnam under his totalitarian communist vision. He was not the good guy. And the great irony is that Vietnam's economy collapsed in the following decades, only to be brought back by economic reform that went to a market based economy. Ho set his country back decades, as South Vietnam had a growing economy until he decided to invade.

[Splits]

Post a quote of me saying I defended the Iraq War and War on Terror?

Don't you clearly remember me saying that I believed the War on Terror should've been fought like the FBI fought the mafia?

I did defend our actions in South Korea (they were invaded by an aggressive, Stalin backed North Korean force. So in that instance, to standby and do nothing would've been the moral wrong).

And Ho Chin was a wannabe Uncle Joe who wanted to unite Vietnam under his totalitarian communist vision. He was not the good guy. And the great irony is that Vietnam's economy collapsed in the following decades, only to be brought back by economic reform that went to a market based economy. Ho set his country back decades, as South Vietnam had a growing economy until he decided to invade.


Every time this debate pops up, you change the conversation to about how BAD other countries are. Guess what, you have zero influence over those shitheads. You can't march on Pyongyang or Moscow or Tehran. You can march on DC.

Nationalist gonna nationalist

[whitemamba]

You are a massively stupid, stupid person. That number is the TOTAL number of casualties. So, please, tell me how we're responsible for 80 million deaths resulting from a war we didn't start, and a war in which we entered 2 years after its official start?

I'll already told you I'm against US foreign policy, dumbass. This debate centered around your massively stupid claim that the US has more blood on their hands than any country in history, which even a retard knows is false.


You want to walk back that claim, or are you going to continue being a dipshit?

We didnt need to be in World War 2, but we made a reason, that puts us partially to blame for the deaths in WW2. You can debate hitler was going to take over the world sure, and the US needed to join, so we let a bunch of innocent americans die for us to get in.Fuck we should of just said, we cant stand for this, we are going to support the British, but we didnt do that did we? As for the other ones, WE ARE 100% Responsible, If we worry about us , and just us, most of these wars and deaths dont exist. We have to support Israel? why? what do they do for us? We have to overthrow governments in the middle east, and start a domino effect. We have to Support the arabs vs the Soviets, and basically create Al Qaeda Jihadi Movement? Look where that got us now. So stop being so fucking stupid, and admit that if we tried to do good instead of flexing our military millions of lived could of been saved. Do you know what its like for a child to grow up with no parents? Or Parents who lose their children , and its totally out of their control? Yes the US is responsible for many deaths. As for my statement that sparked your ass hurt? We have more blood, because your too stupid to realize its not going to end , and its getting worse. Anytime we stick our nose somewhere else, its on us.

[midnightpulp]

We didnt need to be in World War 2, but we made a reason, that puts us partially to blame for the deaths in WW2. You can debate hitler was going to take over the world sure, and the US needed to join, so we let a bunch of innocent americans die for us to get in.Fuck we should of just said, we cant stand for this, we are going to support the British, but we didnt do that did we? As for the other ones, WE ARE 100% Responsible, If we worry about us , and just us, most of these wars and deaths dont exist. We have to support Israel? why? what do they do for us? We have to overthrow governments in the middle east, and start a domino effect. We have to Support the arabs vs the Soviets, and basically create Al Qaeda Jihadi Movement? Look where that got us now. So stop being so fucking stupid, and admit that if we tried to do good instead of flexing our military millions of lived could of been saved. Do you know what its like for a child to grow up with no parents? Or Parents who lose their children , and its totally out of their control? Yes the US is responsible for many deaths. As for my statement that sparked your ass hurt? We have more blood, because your too stupid to realize its not going to end , and its getting worse. Anytime we stick our nose somewhere else, its on us.

There's no solid evidence that we let Pearl Harbor happen. None. That is a conspiracy theory. Not surprised you believe it, though, since you're a 9-11 truther.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9/11_Truth (leftist site, by the way).

So now that you can't provide statistical evidence that the US has more blood on its hands out of any country in human history, you shift to speculating about what is going to happen in the future?

Here's a fun fact for you.


“In a century that began with 9/11, Iraq, and Darfur, the claim that we are living in an unusually peaceful time may strike you as somewhere between hallucinatory and obscene.” Pinker points out, wars make headlines, but there are fewer conflicts today, and wars don’t kill as many people as they did in the Middle Ages, for instance. Also, global rates of violent crime have plummeted in the last few decades. Pinker notes that the reason for these advances are complex but certainly the rise of education, and a growing willingness to put ourselves in the shoes of others has played its part.

Just be intellectually honest and walkback your claim that no historian, social critic (Chomsky and Zinn, included), or anthropologist would agree with.

As for our foreign policy over the past 50 years, did me telling you in the last debate that I'm non-interventionist not stick in your brain?

[midnightpulp]

Nationalist gonna nationalist

So you can't find a quote and resort to smarm?

Thought so.

Moonbat gonna moonbat.

[Splits]

So you can't find a quote and resort to smarm?

Thought so.

Moonbat gonna moonbat.

No need to find a quote of you defending American violence. Your focus on how "bad" other countries are is an implicit thumbs-up for your country exporting mass violence to the world without a single condemnation.

What you should be asking is for your quote of renouncing American imperialism in the 21st century. But we all know, that doesn't exist.

[midnightpulp]

No need to find a quote of you defending American violence. Your focus on how "bad" other countries are is an implicit thumbs-up for your country exporting mass violence to the world without a single condemnation.

What you should be asking is for your quote of renouncing American imperialism in the 21st century. But we all know, that doesn't exist.

What does me saying, "I want the US to be non-interventionist, close all bases around the world, and end aid to Israel" mean to you?

What you want me to do is act like a flag burning anti-American. I won't because I stopped being a teenager nearly 20 years ago.

But if you want a direct quote, I'm not too prideful to admit I renounce the foreign policy of the 21st century American government right here and now. I didn't vote nor support any of it. So I don't see the issue you have here?

[Splits]

What does me saying, "I want the US to be non-interventionist, close all bases around the world, and end aid to Israel" mean to you?

What you want me to do is act like a flag burning anti-American. I won't because I stopped being a teenager nearly 20 years ago.

But if you want a direct quote, I'm not too prideful to admit I renounce the foreign policy of the 21st century American government right here and now. I didn't vote nor support any of it. So I don't see the issue you have here?

The issue I have is that you only say/post those things when pressed. Your primary focus is on how evil "other" governments behave/have behaved whenever this argument arises. You have 0 sway over those other nations. You're abdicating the value of your citizenship by spending all of your time defending the murder and torture of your own government.

And the proof is in your own posts, which means whomever you're having these same conversations with IRL is going the same way. Hence, your support of nationalism is more than just 1 guy on a message board. You have influence, yet you choose to use it to promote American nationalism instead of pushing back on the World's only superpower using mass violence against the downtrodden and defenseless.

[whitemamba]

There's no solid evidence that we let Pearl Harbor happen. None. That is a conspiracy theory. Not surprised you believe it, though, since you're a 9-11 truther.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9/11_Truth (leftist site, by the way).

So now that you can't provide statistical evidence that the US has more blood on its hands out of any country in human history, you shift to speculating about what is going to happen in the future?

Here's a fun fact for you.



Just be intellectually honest and walkback your claim that no historian, social critic (Chomsky and Zinn, included), or anthropologist would agree with.

As for our foreign policy over the past 50 years, did me telling you in the last debate that I'm non-interventionist not stick in your brain?

Your telling me the most sophisticated military at the time, didn't have the intelligence to know there was 6 Carriers and 408 and airplanes on their way to blow up one of our military bases and it went unnoticed? Only a full retard would believe that. Media took care of that as always. As for my statement I should of said since World War 2. I have provided plenty of numbers to support that so don't start the back pedal by trying and hanging on to the one thing i said. Classic losing an argument rhetoric. I understand you don't agree with foreign policy thats a start, but your old ass needs to understand that the reason the world is a shit hole today, is because of US. As for 9/11 , if the fucking families of the victims don't believe the story, and they want a new investigation into the 9/11 C:lolmmissi:loln , its warranted!The fact the media calls anyone crazy or stupid because they bring it up, is suppressing their opinion which is wrong. You dont value life, maybe you have not had loss ever. And your a lucky guy if thats the case, think of how much good we could of done. Instead we let assholes run the country for personal and monetary gain. This debate had nothing to do with your thoughts on foreign policiy. For someone whos not interventionist, you cant seem to admit that we intervened and fucked a lot of places up. If you saying your non-interventionist and that helps you sleep at night so be it, but you preach a different message. And lol at comparing middle ages to today, good job society, it took you thousands of years to realize we dont have to be barbarians.

[midnightpulp]

The issue I have is that you only say/post those things when pressed. Your primary focus is on how evil "other" governments behave/have behaved whenever this argument arises. You have 0 sway over those other nations. You're abdicating the value of your citizenship by spending all of your time defending the murder and torture of your own government.

Follow the debate in this thread and the other thread. When I focus on what other countries have done, it's in response to claims that the US "has the most blood on its hands in human history" or the US was main supplier of Saddam. I'm merely debunking unfactual claims in this case, not discussing US foreign policy in the 21st century, because that's what the debate wasn't initially about.

Now if whitemamba, who triggered the debate in both instances would've said, "I disagree with post-9/11 US foreign policy and think it causes more harm than good," then I would be there agreeing with him. But he veers off into conspiracy theory territory and blind anti-Americanism all too often, spouting literal bullshit that even Chomsky and Zinn would shake their heads at.

[midnightpulp]

Your telling me the most sophisticated military at the time, didn't have the intelligence to know there was 6 Carriers and 408 and airplanes on their way to blow up one of our military bases and it went unnoticed? Only a full retard would believe that. Media took care of that as always. As for my statement I should of said since World War 2. I have provided plenty of numbers to support that so don't start the back pedal by trying and hanging on to the one thing i said. Classic losing an argument rhetoric. I understand you don't agree with foreign policy thats a start, but your old ass needs to understand that the reason the world is a shit hole today, is because of US. As for 9/11 , if the fucking families of the victims don't believe the story, and they want a new investigation into the 9/11 C:lolmmissi:loln , its warranted!The fact the media calls anyone crazy or stupid because they bring it up, is suppressing their opinion which is wrong. You dont value life, maybe you have not had loss ever. And your a lucky guy if thats the case, think of how much good we could of done. Instead we let assholes run the country for personal and monetary gain. This debate had nothing to do with your thoughts on foreign policiy. For someone whos not interventionist, you cant seem to admit that we intervened and fucked a lot of places up. If you saying your non-interventionist and that helps you sleep at night so be it, but you preach a different message. And lol at comparing middle ages to today, good job society, it took you thousands of years to realize we dont have to be barbarians.

I see you're being massively retarded again.

We didn't have the most sophisticated military at the time, you drooling dunce. Once again, you display a profound lack of historical knowledge. The Nazis obviously had the most advanced military at the time, which is why it took basically the whole world to stop them.

I won't buy your conspiracy theory until you cite a peer reviewed paper that proves the government had prior knowledge of the attack and "let it happen." But yeah, they're "all in on it," aren't they? From the media all the way down to university professors :lol

Would also like a peer reviewed study on your 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Sure I can admit we fucked places up. I disagreed with the Iraq War and methodology of the War on Terror, and those regions are worse off.

But when you spout conspiracy theories and make hyperbolic claims, I'm going to tell you you're wrong.

[whitemamba]

I see you're being massively retarded again.

We didn't have the most sophisticated military at the time, you drooling dunce. Once again, you display a profound lack of historical knowledge. The Nazis obviously had the most advanced military at the time, which is why it took basically the whole world to stop them.

I won't buy your conspiracy theory until you cite a peer reviewed paper that proves the government had prior knowledge of the attack and "let it happen." But yeah, they're "all in on it," aren't they? From the media all the way down to university professors :lol

Would also like a peer reviewed study on your 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Sure I can admit we fucked places up. I disagreed with the Iraq War and methodology of the War on Terror, and those regions are worse off.

But when you spout conspiracy theories and make hyperbolic claims, I'm going to tell you you're wrong.

Calling me retarded, isnt ging to make you right, in fact it only makes me seem more correct.

In September 1944, John T. Flynn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_T._Flynn),[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-kkppav-3) a co-founder of the non-interventionist America First Committee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee),[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-4) launched Pearl Harbor revisionism when he published a forty-six page booklet entitled The Truth about Pearl Harbor.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-kkppav-3)
Several writers, including journalist Robert Stinnett (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Stinnett),[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-5) retired U.S. Navy Rear Admiral Robert A Theobald (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Alfred_Theobald),[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-6)and Harry Elmer Barnes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Elmer_Barnes)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-7) have argued various parties high in the U.S. and British (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) governments knew of the attack in advance and may even have let it happen or encouraged it in order to force America into theEuropean theatre of World War II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_theatre_of_World_War_II) via a Japanese–American war started at "the back door".[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-8)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-9) Evidence supporting this view is taken from quotations and source documents from the time[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-10) and the release of newer materials. However, the Pearl Harbor advance-knowledge conspiracy is considered to be a fringe theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fringe_theory) and is rejected by most mainstream historians.

Rejected by most mainstream historians. What is the keyword in that sentence. Figure it out. Here is a picture of a newspaper posting 1 week prior to pearl harbor.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/30-11-1941_japanmaystrike.JPG
and another
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/pearlharborwarning.jpg

Here is more ...


Although FDR desired to directly involve the United States in the Second World War, his intentions sharply contradicted his public pronouncements. A pre-war Gallup poll showed 88 percent of Americans opposed U.S. involvement in the European war. Citizens realized that U.S. participation in World War I had not made a better world, and in a 1940 (election-year) speech, Roosevelt typically stated: "I have said this before, but I shall say it again and again and again: Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars."
But privately, the president planned the opposite. Roosevelt dispatched his closest advisor, Harry Hopkins, to meet British Prime Minister Winston Churchill in January 1941. Hopkins told Churchill: "The President is determined that we [the United States and England] shall win the war together. Make no mistake about it. He has sent me here to tell you that at all costs and by all means he will carry you through, no matter what happens to him — there is nothing he will not do so far as he has human power." William Stevenson noted in A Man Called Intrepid that American-British military staff talks began that same month under "utmost secrecy," which, he clarified, "meant preventing disclosure to the American public." Even Robert Sherwood, the president's friendly biographer, said: "If the isolationists had known the full extent of the secret alliance between the United States and Britain, their demands for impeachment would have rumbled like thunder throughout the land."

Want me to move on to 9/11 ?

[midnightpulp]

Calling me retarded, isnt ging to make you right, in fact it only makes me seem more correct.

In September 1944, John T. Flynn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_T._Flynn),[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-kkppav-3) a co-founder of the non-interventionist America First Committee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee),[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-4) launched Pearl Harbor revisionism when he published a forty-six page booklet entitled The Truth about Pearl Harbor.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-kkppav-3)
Several writers, including journalist Robert Stinnett (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Stinnett),[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-5) retired U.S. Navy Rear Admiral Robert A Theobald (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Alfred_Theobald),[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-6)and Harry Elmer Barnes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Elmer_Barnes)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-7) have argued various parties high in the U.S. and British (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) governments knew of the attack in advance and may even have let it happen or encouraged it in order to force America into theEuropean theatre of World War II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_theatre_of_World_War_II) via a Japanese–American war started at "the back door".[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-8)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-9) Evidence supporting this view is taken from quotations and source documents from the time[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-10) and the release of newer materials. However, the Pearl Harbor advance-knowledge conspiracy is considered to be a fringe theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fringe_theory) and is rejected by most mainstream historians.

Rejected by most mainstream historians. What is the keyword in that sentence. Figure it out. Here is a picture of a newspaper posting 1 week prior to pearl harbor.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/30-11-1941_japanmaystrike.JPG
and another
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/pearlharborwarning.jpg

Here is more ...


Although FDR desired to directly involve the United States in the Second World War, his intentions sharply contradicted his public pronouncements. A pre-war Gallup poll showed 88 percent of Americans opposed U.S. involvement in the European war. Citizens realized that U.S. participation in World War I had not made a better world, and in a 1940 (election-year) speech, Roosevelt typically stated: "I have said this before, but I shall say it again and again and again: Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars."
But privately, the president planned the opposite. Roosevelt dispatched his closest advisor, Harry Hopkins, to meet British Prime Minister Winston Churchill in January 1941. Hopkins told Churchill: "The President is determined that we [the United States and England] shall win the war together. Make no mistake about it. He has sent me here to tell you that at all costs and by all means he will carry you through, no matter what happens to him — there is nothing he will not do so far as he has human power." William Stevenson noted in A Man Called Intrepid that American-British military staff talks began that same month under "utmost secrecy," which, he clarified, "meant preventing disclosure to the American public." Even Robert Sherwood, the president's friendly biographer, said: "If the isolationists had known the full extent of the secret alliance between the United States and Britain, their demands for impeachment would have rumbled like thunder throughout the land."

Want me to move on to 9/11 ?

:lol You really think I haven't seen those newspapers before?

So yeah, no peer reviewed source backed by credible historians.


However, the Pearl Harbor advance-knowledge conspiracy is considered to be a fringe theory and is rejected by most mainstream historians.


The conspiracy theory originated during WWII among members of the America First Committee, something of an alliance of mostly far-left pacifists and far-right isolationists. The first work to posit the theory was a 1944 pamphlet by John T. Flynn, a paleoconservative journalist and head of the New York Chapter of America First.[5] A surprising number of reputable writers, including historian John Toland[6] and novelist Gore Vidal, have endorsed the theories, but they've never gained acceptance among mainstream historians. It has seen a revival in recent years by Truthers attempting to use the "FDR knew!" canard as precedent for 9/11 being a false flag operation.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_conspiracy_theory

"They're all in on it, doe."

And please move onto 9/11. I need a good laugh today other than laughing at the Lakers.

[whitemamba]

:lol You really think I haven't seen those newspapers before?

So yeah, no peer reviewed source backed by credible historians.





http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_conspiracy_theory

"They're all in on it, doe."

And please move onto 9/11. I need a good laugh today other than laughing at the Lakers.

Change the channel from Fox news sometimes. Its good for you.

[midnightpulp]

Change the channel from Fox news sometimes. Its good for you.

Sick burn, especially since I'm linking progressive sources :lol

Go read Rationalwiki's aboutus.

Here's more:

Skeptical inquirer. Left-leaning, pro-science/anti-religious nut:

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/pearl_harbor_winds_message

New York times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/us/07pearl.html?_r=0

Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pearl-harbor-conspiracy-is-bunk-1173728.html

Telegraph:


But Mr Shirley said: "Based on all my research, I believe that neither Roosevelt nor anybody in his government, the Navy or the War Department knew that the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbour. There was no conspiracy.

"This memo is further evidence that they believed the Japanese were contemplating a military action of some sort, but they were kind of in denial because they didn't think anybody would be as audacious to move an army thousands of miles across the Pacific, stop to refuel, then move on to Hawaii to make a strike like this."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8932197/Pearl-Harbour-memo-shows-US-warned-of-Japanese-attack.html

And here's where your stupid logic breaks down. Say we did know the attack was coming? What happens? JAPAN STILL ATTACKS AND WE STILL GO TO WAR. It doesn't matter if they got to Pearl Harbor or if we intercepted them in the Pacific. They still performed an act of war and we would've declared war no matter what.

Let that sink in. Relax. And when you come back, try to be less retarded.

[whitemamba]

Sick burn, especially since I'm linking progressive sources :lol

Go read Rationalwiki's aboutus.

Here's more:

Skeptical inquirer. Left-leaning, pro-science/anti-religious nut:

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/pearl_harbor_winds_message

New York times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/us/07pearl.html?_r=0

Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pearl-harbor-conspiracy-is-bunk-1173728.html

Telegraph:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8932197/Pearl-Harbour-memo-shows-US-warned-of-Japanese-attack.html

And here's where your stupid logic breaks down. Say we did know the attack was coming? What happens? JAPAN STILL ATTACKS AND WE STILL GO TO WAR. It doesn't matter if they got to Pearl Harbor or if we intercepted them in the Pacific. They still performed an act of war and we would've declared war no matter what.

Let that sink in. Relax. And when you come back, try to be less retarded.

Smooth pointoing out a bunch of mainstream sources that would never dare say anything otherwise. :lol honestly.

Back to the attack, by you saying its still an act of war and an act of aggression, well no shit sherlock. Could we have saved a few thousand american lives, yes!! Thats what its about you stupid old fuck.Protecting lives in America.If we at least try to prepare for it, maybe we have less casualties, and yes we still go to war and fuck japan up. But you dont care about life, your so goddamn selfish and living in a protective bubble somewhere in California to realize what its like to struggle, or to have loss. Your logic is so god damn funny, that a little piss came out. If its not validated by a reputable historian its not true! its impossible! that is just hilarious. When all those wiki leaks came out, did historians go and validate those?

[midnightpulp]

Smooth pointoing out a bunch of mainstream sources that would never dare say anything otherwise. :lol honestly.

Back to the attack, by you saying its still an act of war and an act of aggression, well no shit sherlock. Could we have saved a few thousand american lives, yes!! Thats what its about you stupid old fuck.Protecting lives in America.If we at least try to prepare for it, maybe we have less casualties, and yes we still go to war and fuck japan up. But you dont care about life, your so goddamn selfish and living in a protective bubble somewhere in California to realize what its like to struggle, or to have loss. Your logic is so god damn funny, that a little piss came out. If its not validated by a reputable historian its not true! its impossible! that is just hilarious. When all those wiki leaks came out, did historians go and validate those?

Do you know why the Japanese attack was so devastating? Because they used Kamikaze tactics, which were really never seen before in modern warfare. We were "prepared." Pearl Harbor was thought to be an impenetrable line of defense. If we did get warning, the commanders would've likely said, "Yeah. Let them try."


The Americans saw Pearl Harbor as impenetrable.

No one anticipated the Japanese turning their planes into missiles.

And if we would've sent out ships and a squadron into the Pacific to intercept the Japanese (which would've been nearly impossible given how crude radar was at the time. Not to mention it would've left Pearl Harbor defenseless), same result. Japanese dive bombing into those ships killing thousands.

Think things through more carefully before you buy into conspiracy theories.

[whitemamba]

Do you know why the Japanese attack was so devastating? Because they used Kamikaze tactics, which were really never seen before in modern warfare. We were "prepared." Pearl Harbor was thought to be an impenetrable line of defense. If we did get warning, the commanders would've likely said, "Yeah. Let them try."



No one anticipated the Japanese turning their planes into missiles.

And if we would've sent out ships and a squadron into the Pacific to intercept the Japanese (which would've been nearly impossible given how crude radar was at the time. Not to mention it would've left Pearl Harbor defenseless), same result. Japanese dive bombing into those ships killing thousands.

Think things through more carefully before you buy into conspiracy theories.
:lmao holy shit, so your telling me if the US military as prepared, they wouldn't be able to shoot down a plane?lives are machinery what's more important ?

[midnightpulp]

:lmao holy shit, so your telling me if the US military as prepared, they wouldn't be able to shoot down a plane?lives are machinery what's more important ?

You just won't listen to reason. You're beyond having a rational debate.

Quit watching Hollywood movies about Pearl Harbor. It's not like they were sitting around getting a sun tan and then the Japanese just came out of nowhere. That was the first line of defense we had in the Pacific, and it would've been on alert at all times.

And double :lol at you thinking it's easy to shoot a squadron of fuckin' Zeroes out of the air with 1941 era AA guns. And when a plane is COMING RIGHT FUCKING AT YOU, hitting it isn't going to just magically blow it up like you're playing Call of Duty. It's going to crash into the ship and explode.

Serious question. Have you graduated high school yet?

[whitemamba]

You just won't listen to reason. You're beyond having a rational debate.

Quit watching Hollywood movies about Pearl Harbor. It's not like they were sitting around getting a sun tan and then the Japanese just came out of nowhere. That was the first line of defense we had in the Pacific, and it would've been on alert at all times.

And double :lol at you thinking it's easy to shoot a squadron of fuckin' Zeroes out of the air with 1941 era AA guns. And when a plane is COMING RIGHT FUCKING AT YOU, hitting it isn't going to just magically blow it up like you're playing Call of Duty. It's going to crash into the ship and explode.

Serious question. Have you graduated high school yet?

:lol at thinking you are a military strategist.. Fact is it's better to be prepared than not. End of discussion.

[Will Hunting]

Can someone summarize this argument for me? tl;dr the whole thing.

[Will Hunting]

whitemamba (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=26808) midnightpulp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=5430) :corn:

[Will Hunting]

Oh and I'm vehemently against US imperialism but regarding who has killed "the most people", Mao put in some fucking work:

http://www.realclearworld.com/blog/dictators.jpg

[midnightpulp]

:lol at thinking you are a military strategist.. Fact is it's better to be prepared than not. End of discussion.

Having a first line of defense thought to be impenetrable isn't being "prepared?"

It was the Kamikaze that fucked us up, and they wouldn't have been prepared for that.

To end this on a positive note, you're still a bro, and I respect your passion to know the truth, but sometimes the "mainstream" truth is the actual truth. Just because it's an "alt" opinion doesn't mean it's automatically a fact.

[Thread]

Can someone summarize this argument for me? tl;dr the whole thing.

Durant went to California instead of Texas, and Midst couldn't stand the gaffe.

[whitemamba]

Having a first line of defense thought to be impenetrable isn't being "prepared?"

It was the Kamikaze that fucked us up, and they wouldn't have been prepared for that.

To end this on a positive note, you're still a bro, and I respect your passion to know the truth, but sometimes the "mainstream" truth is the actual truth. Just because it's an "alt" opinion doesn't mean it's automatically a fact.

We dont need to argue over what you say is a conspiracy, and what I say needs more investigation, truth will come out eventually one way or another, it always does. I could be wrong , you could be wrong, it goes both ways, but my passion is not necessarily for the truth, but its to make society live at peace with each other, and focus on bettering what we have, and what we are going to have. Not spend trillions and trillions of dollars trying to kill each other. I don't have any negative feelings towards you Mid, Im just letting you know how I see it, from what I have read, and noticed.

[midnightpulp]

Durant went to California instead of Texas, and Midst couldn't stand the gaffe.

Why do you bring everything back to basketball?

[Thread]

Why do you bring everything back to basketball?

Because you don't start a political debate/conversation on the same morning that Durant chooses State over the Spurs. It's a gd outrage.

You know that though. You fucking pussy, you.

[midnightpulp]

We dont need to argue over what you say is a conspiracy, and what I say needs more investigation, truth will come out eventually one way or another, it always does. I could be wrong , you could be wrong, it goes both ways, but my passion is not necessarily for the truth, but its to make society live at peace with each other, and focus on bettering what we have, and what we are going to have. Not spend trillions and trillions of dollars trying to kill each other. I don't have any negative feelings towards you Mid, Im just letting you know how I see it, from what I have read, and noticed.

I once believed that Churchill knew about the attack and didn't warn FDR, but the evidence led me away from that opinion. New truths can certainly emerge, but right now, it looks like the "official" version is right.

I want peace, too. I just take issue when people say the US has been the source of all the world's problems since the beginning of time. That's all.

[midnightpulp]

Because you don't start a political debate/conversation on the same morning that Durant chooses State over the Spurs. It's a gd outrage.

You know that though. You fucking pussy, you.

I was talking politics in this thread before the news broke.

Check the time stamps. And then I want YOU to relent.

[Clipper Nation]

Your framing is your problem. You want to compare numbers/atrocities in a vacuum and be the "but other people are worse" guy, which is morally repugnant.

Chomsky:


Orwell:


Meanwhile, your candidate is openly opining for waterboarding and "much worse" forms of torture.

Good luck with that.
You do realize that Chomsky is the ultimate "but other people are worse" guy, right? He always blames America for Communist regimes' violence and repression.

[Thread]

I was talking politics in this thread before the news broke.

Check the time stamps. And then I want YOU to relent.

Doesn't matter. When the news broke the NBA story takes precedent. If he'd a chosen to come to San Antonio 50 million dead people would just have to wait. Instead you doubled down on this news nonsense so you didn't have to face the Durant music.

[whitemamba]

I once believed that Churchill knew about the attack and didn't warn FDR, but the evidence led me away from that opinion. New truths can certainly emerge, but right now, it looks like the "official" version is right.

I want peace, too. I just take issue when people say the US has been the source of all the world's problems since the beginning of time. That's all.

Not all , but a lot unfortunately, and its not us, its a few in the government.I don't want the U.S. to be in known for that, I would rather them be known for helping society progress in positive ways. Starting on our soil first. Happy 4th.

[K...]

Not all , but a lot unfortunately, and its not us, its a few in the government.I don't want the U.S. to be in known for that, I would rather them be known for helping society progress in positive ways. Starting on our soil first. Happy 4th.

Why are you so ashamed that the world's best military since 1945 is so good at killing people?

The real question is why haven't we killed more?


Do you realize that peace in Europe is why the U.S. Fights everywhere? Because we can't let Europe have guns or else they get pissy.

I will take killing non American citizens over killing Americans any day of the week. Russians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Syria, etc are all countries who shat on themselves. America hasn't shat itself since the civil war. God bless America for that! ! ,

[whitemamba]

Why are you so ashamed that the world's best military since 1945 is so good at killing people?

The real question is why haven't we killed more?


Do you realize that peace in Europe is why the U.S. Fights everywhere? Because we can't let Europe have guns or else they get pissy.

I will take killing non American citizens over killing Americans any day of the week. Russians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Syria, etc are all countries who shat on themselves. America hasn't shat itself since the civil war. God bless America for that! ! ,

o my goodness...

[Koolaid_Man]

Religion is for pussies who can't think for themselves.


No........religion is what you choose to believe ....organised religion is a different thing ok sweetie...:lol

[K...]

No........religion is what you choose to believe ....organised religion is a different thing ok sweetie...:lol

if you think for yourself you get humanism or nihlism nothing else is possible without delusion, so which ya got?

[UNT Eagles 2016]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nIN6Ciw1Ws