How do you match up against Golden State now?

[Big Empty]

Gasol signing wouldn't help us beat them now. There would be a huge match up problem.

[Nathan89]

We have to wait till next summer and try to get Westbrook or CP3. Until then we won't matchup.

[bklynspursfan]

Do what OKC almost did. They were effective playing 2 bigs

[Obstructed_View]

Gasol signing wouldn't help us beat them now. There would be a huge match up problem.

Bull shit. Going big is exactly what you do. Lamarcus to Gasol would be one of the best high-low games ever.

[Budkin]

You can't. Have to hope for chemistry issues.

[jermaine]

Maaaan everyone dubbed the Heat unstoppable from jump an they got beat by a bunch of no names on the Mavs...

[Kikoluna]

You cant. They are unbeatable. Even if they lose bigs, that offense can score 150 per game. We had to go all in on Durant. Freaking offer under the table deal, something more we didn't and we lost. It's over.

[Mugen]

You hope that Durant or Curry tears an ACL, otherwise good luck to the rest of the league tbh :lol

[peacemaker885]

Spurs probably can't.

[Kikoluna]

Maaaan everyone dubbed the Heat unstoppable from jump an they got beat by a bunch of no names on the Mavs...
This is a better team than that heat. Top many shooters. I acknowledge the heat big 3 were better players individually but gsw just shoots 3. They have no inside game at all (pathetic actually) but those 3's.

[benefactor]

You don't. You play for second and be happy with that next season.

[Obstructed_View]

Not sure how many of you guys have ever played basketball against someone that's several inches taller and 50 pounds heavier. Now imagine doing it 82 times before the playoffs start. Bogut was a big, mobile body who cleared out a LOT of fucking space. The Dubs' offense will be amazing to watch at times, but it's even less built for the playoffs now than it was the last two years.

[Bartleby]

You crowd the 3 pt. line on D and work the ball inside on offense.

[Chinook]

So this is why Pop kept Diaw. The GS death lineup isn't going to be the same with Durant at the four. That offense should be sick, but their D is going to suffer. From Durant's perspective, I sort of like it. He's going what James did but with only half the time. I imagine the deal is a 1-plus-1, which means he's probably going to try to go back to OKC next season. It's bitch-made for sure, but we'll see.

[Chinook]

Not sure how many of you guys have ever played basketball against someone that's several inches taller and 50 pounds heavier. Now imagine doing it 82 times before the playoffs start. Bogut was a big, mobile body who cleared out a LOT of fucking space. The Dubs' offense will be amazing to watch at times, but it's even less built for the playoffs now than it was the last two years.

Yeah, especially considering that he was allowed to keep moving on all those screens. If it is Bogut for Durant, they have a MAJOR size disadvantage. OKC knows damned well how exploitable KD at the four is. That's why they've made a concerted effort to get big men.

[RD2191]

Bull shit. Going big is exactly what you do. Lamarcus to Gasol would be one of the best high-low games ever.

I have to agree with this. Going big is our only chance, especially if the lose bogut/festus.

[midnightpulp]

:lol you can't beat them, realistically, without injuries..

This isn't anything like Miami, this is a much more natural fit..

We need a thread, bro.

I want to read Harlem going HAM on that Beta Bitch faggot.

[jermaine]

Not sure how many of you guys have ever played basketball against someone that's several inches taller and 50 pounds heavier. Now imagine doing it 82 times before the playoffs start. Bogut was a big, mobile body who cleared out a LOT of fucking space. The Dubs' offense will be amazing to watch at times, but it's even less built for the playoffs now than it was the last two years.

Truths!!!

[GSH]

Wouldn't it be ironic if Westbrook takes Durant and the Dubs out of the playoffs this season? Just saying.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Right now? no one matches up well with he Warriors...

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, especially considering that he was allowed to keep moving on all those screens. If it is Bogut for Durant, they have a MAJOR size disadvantage. OKC knows damned well how exploitable KD at the four is. That's why they've made a concerted effort to get big men.

And I think we're going to see a return to bigger basketball as a result. Golden State just cornered the fucking market on smallball, so teams would be insane to try to match that style.

[spurs1990]

Just need Mills/Green to go off from the 3pt line that we know they can.
Diaw needs to reclaim his pre-2016 form.

Leonard and Aldridge need to produce at high all-star levels.
The old 3 just need to be stable and not a net-negative.

And finally need to see improvement in Anderson, Simmons, and Boban.

All (or maybe most) of the above comes to fruition, the Spurs can beat GS in May 2017.

[Hoops Czar]

Bull shit. Going big is exactly what you do. Lamarcus to Gasol would be one of the best high-low games ever.

LMA doesn't play in the post and Gasol is going to be nothing more than another ISO player backing down defenders and taking turnaround jumpers in the Spurs system. They have zero creators/penetrators so everyone will just be standing around waiting for their one on one opportunity. It's going to be like the running of the bulls when they play GS. The Spurs would have to scream halfcourt vs the Warriors or they'll get blown off the court. They'd also have to shoot an incredibly high % to offset the Warriors high octane offense because last time I checked, 3-point shots were more productive than two point shots.

Bertans, Anderson, Simmons, Boban, LJC as rotation players? RIP Spurs.

[Obstructed_View]

Just need Mills/Green to go off from the 3pt line that we know they can.
Diaw needs to reclaim his pre-2016 form.

Leonard and Aldridge need to produce at high all-star levels.
The old 3 just need to be stable and not a net-negative.

And finally need to see improvement in Anderson, Simmons, and Boban.

All (or maybe most) of the above comes to fruition, the Spurs can beat GS in May 2017.

:pop: just make more baskets

[Mouth is Bleeding]

Maaaan everyone dubbed the Heat unstoppable from jump an they got beat by a bunch of no names on the Mavs...

I don't think this is comparable at all unfortunately.

The shooting here is on a whole other level and will be impossible to guard.

Could a Pau even be on the floor against these guys???

[objective]

Obviously no Parker.

Just hope that Simmons, Bertans, and SloJoke are all better defensively, run then out there with Kawhi, Green, and Manu and Aldridge and Diaw in constant contact rotation.

Cross fingers.

[cd98]

My guess is you counter big. If you have Gasol, pound the ball to him or LMA and make Durant guard on the block. Basically, don't let him play the 4.

[Chinook]

And I think we're going to see a return to bigger basketball as a result. Golden State just cornered the fucking market on smallball, so teams would be insane to try to match that style.

Honestly, the strategy to beat them hasn't changed at all. It'll just be harder to pull that off now that instead of Barnes being the safety value, you have KD. You pound them inside an just hope to survive on the other end. If the Spurs can add Gasol to Duncan, Diaw and Aldridge, I think they're doing well for themselves. Getting a defensive PG would be nice but that probably won't happen at this point.

[Raven]

Gasol signing wouldn't help us beat them now. There would be a huge match up problem.

yeah, for them

[Raven]

Honestly, the strategy to beat them hasn't changed at all. It'll just be harder to pull that off now that instead of Barnes being the safety value, you have KD. You pound them inside an just hope to survive on the other end. If the Spurs can add Gasol to Duncan, Diaw and Aldridge, I think they're doing well for themselves. Getting a defensive PG would be nice but that probably won't happen at this point.

considering they are bound to lose bogut and ezeli, they will be severly lacking in rebounding and pick and roll D, so the matchup is pretty straightforward.

[Obstructed_View]

LMA doesn't play in the post and Gasol is going to be nothing more than another ISO player backing down defenders and taking turnaround jumpers in the Spurs system. They have zero creators/penetrators so everyone will just be standing around waiting for their one on one opportunity. It's going to be like the running of the bulls when they play GS. The Spurs would have to scream halfcourt vs the Warriors or they'll get blown off the court. They'd also have to shoot an incredibly high % to offset the Warriors high octane offense because last time I checked, 3-point shots were more productive than two point shots.

Bertans, Anderson, Simmons, Boban, LJC as rotation players? RIP Spurs.

Well, you lost all credibility at "LMA doesn't play in the post", but let me just throw one stat at you: NBA average points per FGA is ~1.7. Layups and dunks beat three pointers every time. The only way to beat them is to exploit their weakness.

[G-Dawgg]

You don't, it's over.

[Hoops Czar]

Well, you lost all credibility at "LMA doesn't play in the post", but let me just throw one stat at you: NBA average points per FGA is ~1.7. Layups and dunks beat three pointers every time. The only way to beat them is to exploit their weakness.

LMA doesn't play in the post. Her's a PF that shoots midrange jump shots. Care to watch some games next season? What does the NBA average have to do with a Warriors (young) vs Spurs (old) match up? The Warriors aren't an average NBA team and the Spurs don't have a single penetrator that can breakdown the Warriors defense and get to the rim for easy layups and slam dunks. Even their best player would rather take a couple of dribbles, do a shimmy shakes or two and pull up for 10-15 ft. jumper rather than take it to the basket.

What you say is easy to talk about but not so easy to execute when the personnel and resources aren't there. Every NBA team knew the Warriors weakness last year yet, so few teams including the Spurs were able to exploit it. The Warriors were a game away from a championship last season and if it weren't for a herculean effort from Lebron James and a timely three from Irving, they'd be the two time champs.

[Drom John]

Only nine players had more post touches/game than LaMarcus Aldridge:
Dwight Howard
Hassan Whiteside
Jonas Valanciunas
Al Jefferson
Mason Plumlee
Myles Turner
Steven Adams
Amir Johnson
Ian Mahimni

[hsxvvd]

James Johnson.

Start him for the jump ball. Instead of jumping, he does a round house kick to Curry and Durant's throat.

[Spurtacular]

Wanna try and say Spurs can do this or that; but KD signing with GS and not SAS was a big pendulum swing.

[Spurtacular]

considering they are bound to lose bogut and ezeli, they will be severly lacking in rebounding and pick and roll D, so the matchup is pretty straightforward.

Yea, mouth breather isn't a center despite what he thinks.

[daslicer]

They are a super offensive team with Durant but they are worse defensively without Bogut,Ezeli. I don't think they can play small ball for a full 48 minutes and get away with it.

[HarlemHeat37]

In theory, I agree that they're vulnerable inside, but how exactly are the Spurs going to exploit this? They don't have any great rebounding bigs and only 1 post scorer, along with no reliable perimeter penetrators..

[hsxvvd]

They'll sign ring chasing bigs.

Nene for example. Probably land Gasol for a vet min now too.

[SASdynasty!]

Change the game plan. Put the ball back in Parker's hands. In the last 4 years, we're undefeated in the playoffs when Parker leads the team in scoring. And practically the opposite is true when the ball is in someone else's hands.

[GSH]

Change the game plan. Put the ball back in Parker's hands. In the last 4 years, we're undefeated in the playoffs when Parker leads the team in scoring. And practically the opposite is true when the ball is in someone else's hands.

http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/chris-rock-huh-face.gif

[dbestpro]

Leonard has Durant. Green has Thompson. If the Spurs get Gasol, then he or LMA will match up with Warrior Green, but the Warriors have no one to match up with the other. Parker on Curry goes to Warriors, Gasol against whoever is the center for GSt goes Spurs, and the bench for the Dubs will be decimated. They have no role players and no one to do the dirty work that is always underestimated. In the end we have one less team to over come, OKC, and Bogut is no longer beating people up in the middle. One year from now we are going to be talking about how this was the best thing that could happen to the Spurs.

[Kikoluna]

Change the game plan. Put the ball back in Parker's hands. In the last 4 years, we're undefeated in the playoffs when Parker leads the team in scoring. And practically the opposite is true when the ball is in someone else's hands.

Wow, did you just say that

[Kikoluna]

http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/chris-rock-huh-face.gif

Lol that was my face

[Tully365]

Their only (relative) weakness is inside now. They're unquestionably a great team, but the shot sharing could potentially become an issue, and having Durant on the floor for more minutes cuts into Iggy's mpg, which makes them a bit less versatile on defense... but, yeah, these are all pretty subtle things....

The funny thing to me is some people criticizing Durant for joining the Warriors, and then saying they are unbeatable... how is making the smartest basketball decision available to him a bad move?

[coachmac87]

Leonard has Durant. Green has Thompson. If the Spurs get Gasol, then he or LMA will match up with Warrior Green, but the Warriors have no one to match up with the other. Parker on Curry goes to Warriors, Gasol against whoever is the center for GSt goes Spurs, and the bench for the Dubs will be decimated. They have no role players and no one to do the dirty work that is always underestimated. In the end we have one less team to over come, OKC, and Bogut is no longer beating people up in the middle. One year from now we are going to be talking about how this was the best thing that could happen to the Spurs.


Iggy and Livingston isn't a bad start for their bench tbh...

[Kikoluna]

You cannot beat that starting five , even if they don't have a bench. I hate to admit it. We have 3 good starters, they have 5.

[Mouth is Bleeding]

Positive is that it looks like there is now only one team in the West to really really worry about.

I will not miss OKC and all the problems that they gave us.

The very bad is that even with an injury to KD or Curry, GS could still be the best team in the west which is unbelievable.

[Tully365]

I think Bogut is really undervalued by most fans... he sacrificed the big numbers he used to put up in Milwaukee to do all the tough inside work for the Warriors while never needing shots... that helps on a team with talented shooters. But ultimately, Jerry West did the smart thing-- getting a 27 year old star who plays 35 mpg makes an already great team greater... it's on a bigger scale, but this reminds me of the 90s Rockets trading for Clyde Drexler after winning a championship... also the early 70s Knicks, getting Earl Monroe to put alongside Walt Frazier, his biggest rival in the league up until then... both moves resulted in championships.

[gambit1990]

Change the game plan. Put the ball back in Parker's hands. In the last 4 years, we're undefeated in the playoffs when Parker leads the team in scoring. And practically the opposite is true when the ball is in someone else's hands.
:lmao

damn, i'm starting to be convinced that SASdynasty! is tony parker.

[Tully365]

Iggy and Livingston isn't a bad start for their bench tbh...

Yeah, it's hard to find fault with those two... they are probably a bit better than the Spurs' starting PG/SG combo.

[024]

You don't. Punt this season and hope Westbrook or Chris Paul comes over in 2017. Otherwise, punt again for 2018.

Or keep reloading with old veterans like Gasol and hope the Warriors suffer one (probably need two) injuries.

[Dro210]

They'll never win. They'll never stay healthy.

Beta Durant went to appease some fag rapper and his blasphemous fake god, fake curse bullshit. That ain't gonna work.

Book it.

[r0drig0lac]

James Johnson.

Start him for the jump ball. Instead of jumping, he does a round house kick to Curry and Durant's throat.

[DAF86]

We need to get at least one more athletic, talented wing.

[sexinthatsx]

Bull shit. Going big is exactly what you do. Lamarcus to Gasol would be one of the best high-low games ever.

Agree. Everybody thinks they have to sign players and adjust to the small ball lineup, when in actuality you have to do just the opposite: get the next Shaq type player and just have him dominate the boards and dunk on everybody. Hopefully Boban can expand his role this season and be able to be force off the bench.

[ViceCity86]

Durant had Jones fracture and Curry has history of foot problems.There's your hope.

[TheGreatYacht]

Stay big like the Thunder did. Golden State's defense will be trash, and with Pau replacing Tim, that's a liability less on the offensive end.

Green on Curry
Parker on Thompson
Leonard on Durant
Aldridge on Iggy
Gasol on Green

We just gotta hope our bench is productive like the old days. Warriors just lost a lot of depth

[SupremeGuy]

:lmao

damn, i'm starting to be convinced that SASdynasty! is tony parker.OMFG :rollin

[spurtech09]

Bull shit. Going big is exactly what you do. Lamarcus to Gasol would be one of the best high-low games ever.Warriors are small so yes the Power Game.....Spurs need some better shooting though....3pt shooting

[Spurs9]

Its almost more shocking to me than the lebron heat team. Warriors were already blowing everyone out last season and now they add durrant? :wow Curry wasnt fully healthy after the knee injury and if he was they would likely have won the title. I dont see any current team constructed to challange them all the way. Warriors will probably pick up some ringer chasers at the min on top like a allen.

[lefty20]

Durant had Jones fracture and Curry has history of foot problems.There's your hope.

so ur saying that we bring back Bowen?

[Mr. Body]

Honestly, the strategy to beat them hasn't changed at all. It'll just be harder to pull that off now that instead of Barnes being the safety value, you have KD. You pound them inside an just hope to survive on the other end. If the Spurs can add Gasol to Duncan, Diaw and Aldridge, I think they're doing well for themselves. Getting a defensive PG would be nice but that probably won't happen at this point.

They traded their front court players for more of what they're really good at. They're incredible at range now, but are more lopsided than before. I'm not sure any teams exist that can exploit this (imagine them trying to deal with Shaq), but there's a clear vulnerability.

And the defensive PG is Murray, but he's not ready yet.

[SD126]

Just added Zaza.

[Slippy]

Do what OKC almost did. They were effective playing 2 bigs

Yap 2 bigs. One of them has to clean up rebounds on offense. Pretty much like what Steven Adams & Triston thompson did to the Warriors

[Slippy]

Oh & the bigs have to be good enough defending out on the perimeter

[james evans]

Stay big like the Thunder did. Golden State's defense will be trash, and with Pau replacing Tim, that's a liability less on the offensive end.

Green on Curry
Parker on Thompson
Leonard on Durant
Aldridge on Iggy
Gasol on Green

We just gotta hope our bench is productive like the old days. Warriors just lost a lot of depth
parker on thompson?? mf are you crazy??? Do you know this man is capable of 25-30 point quarters with ease?

[james evans]

In theory, I agree that they're vulnerable inside, but how exactly are the Spurs going to exploit this? They don't have any great rebounding bigs and only 1 post scorer, along with no reliable perimeter penetrators..
We CAN exploit it, but this depends on popovich. If he wants to continue to try and look like a genius with his resting bullshit thru the season only to get us fucked up on the playoffs with his tony parker and bullshit lineup experiments, we're donw

[daslicer]

Spurs need to try to win the regular season games against the Warriors instead of doing what they did last year. Even if they lose all the regular season meetings against the Warriors they will gain some knowledge how to play against this team.

[Keepin' it real]

They traded their front court players for more of what they're really good at. They're incredible at range now, but are more lopsided than before. I'm not sure any teams exist that can exploit this (imagine them trying to deal with Shaq), but there's a clear vulnerability.

And the defensive PG is Murray, but he's not ready yet.

Murray is more than ready to go up against the ultra-finesse GSW backcourt. His length ain't getting any longer in a couple of years. Put him out there this season.

[Mr. Body]

Murray is more than ready to go up against the ultra-finesse GSW backcourt. His length ain't getting any longer in a couple of years. Put him out there this season.

I agree, but he'll be a bit dodgy.

[Kikoluna]

Stay big like the Thunder did. Golden State's defense will be trash, and with Pau replacing Tim, that's a liability less on the offensive end.

Green on Curry
Parker on Thompson
Leonard on Durant
Aldridge on Iggy
Gasol on Green

We just gotta hope our bench is productive like the old days. Warriors just lost a lot of depth
Your plan won't work because Klay will rape Tony

[dbestpro]

My take is every team should go against the Warriors physically hard during the regular season. Make the officials call 40 fouls if you have to. Eventually they will stop calling the fouls to try and keep the game from becoming a joke. This is how the Piston bad boys took a mediocre team and became a champion.

[SouthernFried]

This reminds me when Houston loaded up their team with Superstars way back when.

Then they discovered... there's only one ball. This has that same potential to backfire.

[james evans]

This reminds me when Houston loaded up their team with Superstars way back when.

Then they discovered... there's only one ball. This has that same potential to backfire.
Houston was old. The better example would be the Trailblazers with Steve Smith, Stoudamire, Wallace, a borderline washed up Sabonis, and older Pippen, and a Jermaine O'neal wasting away on the bench. There's only 1 ball. You need workers on a team. U don't need a team with 2 bosses. The question is, who's gonna defer

[Mr. Body]

This reminds me when Houston loaded up their team with Superstars way back when.

Then they discovered... there's only one ball. This has that same potential to backfire.

I agree that there's potential for problems. They were already a spectacular shooting team. So they add spectacular shooting to spectacular shooting. One guy will have to take more of a backseat, and that guy is Klay Thompson. Plus they've lost important front line guys. Result: Klay Thompson will not be there in a couple years. All they've done is swap out the two players in the long term, hurting front court depth, in the (admittedly good) chances they can outshoot anyone dominantly until then.

[Russ]

This reminds me when Houston loaded up their team with Superstars way back when.

Then they discovered... there's only one ball. This has that same potential to backfire.

Never underestimate unintended consequences.

How could you pass up KD?

But is really what he used to be before his foot injury?

Is the (perhaps) frail Curry chronically injured?

That's why we watch, right?

[myhc]

Try to pound them inside like everyone has said. And try to make the 3 point differential not a total annihilation.

[tmtcsc]

Bull shit. Going big is exactly what you do. Lamarcus to Gasol would be one of the best high-low games ever.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-eM1_8Xu6SD8/U5e-6SAPXXI/AAAAAAAAHZE/RpNn6vBRE3k/s1600/KawhiLeonard+.gif

[james evans]

Spurs need to try to win the regular season games against the Warriors instead of doing what they did last year. Even if they lose all the regular season meetings against the Warriors they will gain some knowledge how to play against this team.
yeah that throwing games bullshit to look like a genius isn't gonna fly anymore. Especially when you have no Plan B. Go out there, kick their asses and when they come with a plan B, you come with a plan B as well.

[Obstructed_View]

yeah that throwing games bullshit to look like a genius isn't gonna fly anymore. Especially when you have no Plan B. Go out there, kick their asses and when they come with a plan B, you come with a plan B as well.

To be fair, the Spurs exposed the Warriors in that one game. It's the blueprint everyone else used to beat them for the rest of the season. Winning or losing the other ones wouldn't have made a difference.

[Obstructed_View]

Your plan won't work because Klay will rape Tony

I think they'll suspend him for that.

[GSH]

I think they'll suspend him for that.


More likely they'll call it inadvertent penetration and just fine him.

[Obstructed_View]

More likely they'll call it inadvertent penetration and just fine him.

Well, if it was Green, yes.

[PublicOption]

Its time to go back to 4 down and just make them stop it.

[marinoman]

well mr. moving screen andrew bogut is gone and while green and others will still do some, its now manageable, so there's that

[99 Problems]

The GSW lockeroom has the potential to go off, we've seen examples this season. Plus Walton's gone with everything he carried to the table. Bogut's 10-15 minutes a game wasn't much but it was quality and allowed Kerr to mix it up and that's gone.

[Obstructed_View]

The GSW lockeroom has the potential to go off, we've seen examples this season. Plus Walton's gone with everything he carried to the table. Bogut's 10-15 minutes a game wasn't much but it was quality and allowed Kerr to mix it up and that's gone.

Bogut averaged 22 minutes a game the last two years in Oakland. Now he's gone and his backup is gone.

Wonder where Kendrick Perkins is. I'm sure he's gonna try to go to Oakland to plow the road for them.

[el contusione]

Dubs are too good offensively. Everyone is saying that you pound them inside but a 3 is always more than a 2. So if they are making their 3s say good night. It will be tough to beat them in the regular season and if you have to play them in a 7 game series I just don't see it happening.

[Mr. Body]

Dubs are too good offensively. Everyone is saying that you pound them inside but a 3 is always more than a 2. So if they are making their 3s say good night. It will be tough to beat them in the regular season and if you have to play them in a 7 game series I just don't see it happening.

Yet they coughed up lots of games this playoffs and nearly lost two series in a row. Is there that big of a difference between Thompson shooting a three and now Durant shooting it? Now you have to get three guys into a rhythm.

[el contusione]

You cannot beat that starting five , even if they don't have a bench. I hate to admit it. We have 3 good starters, they have 5.
This..
Obviously Kerr will try to juggle the mins of the starters where at least 1 or 2 starters are playing with the bench. Spurs bench isn't vastly great either. Spurs bench was terrible in the playoffs.

[el contusione]

Yet they coughed up lots of games this playoffs and nearly lost two series in a row. Is there that big of a difference between Thompson shooting a three and now Durant shooting it? Now you have to get three guys into a rhythm.
The difference was Curry's injury and Barnes playing terrible. Now you replace Barnes with Durant. Barnes was still getting his shots it was just he wasn't making them.

[024]

Yet they coughed up lots of games this playoffs and nearly lost two series in a row. Is there that big of a difference between Thompson shooting a three and now Durant shooting it? Now you have to get three guys into a rhythm.
No but there is a huge difference between Durant shooting a 3 and Barnes shooting one.

:lol Why are you comparing Durant to Thompson? Durant is replacing Barnes and Barnes got his wide open shots in the finals and missed almost everything. The Spurs didn't match up well against the Warriors to begin with. The Spurs tried hiding Parker on Barnes and it worked in the earlier years but we all saw that plan slowly cracking. Now replace Barnes with Kevin Durant and the Spurs are in a terrible spot.

[Mr. Body]

No but there is a huge difference between Durant shooting a 3 and Barnes shooting one.

:lol Why are you comparing Durant to Thompson? Durant is replacing Barnes and Barnes got his wide open shots in the finals and missed almost everything. The Spurs didn't match up well against the Warriors to begin with. The Spurs tried hiding Parker on Barnes and it worked in the earlier years but we all saw that plan slowly cracking. Now replace Barnes with Kevin Durant and the Spurs are in a terrible spot.

You aren't replacing Barnes with Durant. Durant needs way too many shots for that. Thompson goes into the standing in the corner role. That's why I keep saying Thompson will be traded before long, maybe next summer. He's too expensive to be a role player and that's what he'll be. You can only get so many guys major touches. I guess maybe he can come off the bench but then he's really expensive for a bench player, while they will need to start replacing Bogut and the other role players they'll start losing. Essentially they're getting Durant for a year at the expense of size, then will need to jettison Klay to fill out the roster. Overall an improvement but not as long-term as everyone says. There's still a lot of work to be done, meanwhile Curry and Durant look injury prone.

No, the Spurs will still match up badly, but they've done nothing to address matching up with LeBron.

[Tully365]

It's kind of mind-boggling to think a 73 win team would even consider getting rid of two starters in the first place. That by itself is historic.

They signed Zaza Pachulia on a shockingly cheap contract, so that's about 75% of Bogut's role covered... word is lots of bench guys are calling to play for the min, so if they lock up a Dedmon/Reed type they're good. The latest rumors on Hoopshype.com now say that FA David Lee is interested in returning. Damn!

I'm a Spurs fan first, but as a basketball fan you've got to admire all the work that went into building a super team: conversations from Iguodala that made a lasting impression, texts from Curry, & The Phone Call from The Logo, Jerry West...

[Obstructed_View]

David West will end up on either Cleveland or Golden State.

[Obstructed_View]

No, the Spurs will still match up badly, but they've done nothing to address matching up with LeBron.

As for the first part, I disagree. I think the Spurs match up better than ever with the Warriors. The only chance anyone's going to have to beat them is to wear them down. As for the second part, are you referring to the Warriors matching up with Lebron? If so, I agree. There's absolutely nobody to even slow him down on that roster now.

[Chinook]

I feel like Willie Reed is being overrated as hell right now.

[Keepin' it real]

how do you match up against Golden State?

Play to your strengths. Go big, defend like hell, and let God sort 'em out.

[Mr. Body]

As for the first part, I disagree. I think the Spurs match up better than ever with the Warriors. The only chance anyone's going to have to beat them is to wear them down. As for the second part, are you referring to the Warriors matching up with Lebron? If so, I agree. There's absolutely nobody to even slow him down on that roster now.

Yeah. If it's the Cavs again in the Finals, James is going to utterly destroy the Warriors, I don't care how many deep bombs Curry and Durant throw.

[Man In Black]

Exactly OV. Big Ball those fools. Slow the game down and limit their shooting pace.

[Tully365]

I feel like Willie Reed is being overrated as hell right now.

If you're talking about him starting or being 6th -11th man, sure. But in the role of 12th/13th man? He'd be the Jason Caffey of the Warriors... Durant would get more minutes at C than he would.

[james evans]

David West will end up on either Cleveland or Golden State.
I hope he ends up in golden state. Their interior defense is already bad. Adding west makes it the worst

[SpursforSix]

I hope he ends up in golden state. Their interior defense is already bad. Adding west makes it the worst

LOL. Doofus.

[TheMulletMan3000]

This is how you match up against GSW: You tank for the next 6 years and do not even try to compete...

[Budkin]

This is how you match up against GSW: You tank for the next 6 years.

Fuck that shit. We have at least a one year window to account for the inevitable chemistry issues. It's happened to every super team so far.

[TheMulletMan3000]

Fuck that shit. We have at least a one year window to account for the inevitable chemistry issues. It's happened to every super team so far.

They got Zaza. Game over.

Honestly, I'm not giving up on the Spurs, but this is getting ridiculous.

[dbreiden83080]

You don't. Durant punked out and made this a piece of cake to win a title.

[dbreiden83080]

Not sure how many of you guys have ever played basketball against someone that's several inches taller and 50 pounds heavier. Now imagine doing it 82 times before the playoffs start. Bogut was a big, mobile body who cleared out a LOT of fucking space. The Dubs' offense will be amazing to watch at times, but it's even less built for the playoffs now than it was the last two years.

With the 4 they will have on the court at the same time, there is no stopping them whatsoever. None.

[lilbthebasedgod]

Well at least we'll get to see if Boban is any good.

[Chomag]

I'm actually leaning to the side of going old school and running 2 bigs out there. I know today's nba is all about small ball but no matter what we are not matching gsw with small ball. No matter what small line up we pit out there gsw are going to be much better without it.

[james evans]

With the 4 they will have on the court at the same time, there is no stopping them whatsoever. None.
there is only 1 ball. How long have you guys been watching basketball? It's not as simple as, "add player here and add his shots". If KD is willing to decrease his shots and iso moments, it can work, but I don't see it. That means Thompson is bumped to a 3rd option. They're gonna be dangerous, but I'd be more concerned if GS had gotten Whiteside. That is what I was most concerned about. Adding KD did not solve their interiour defense, which sucked without Bogut last year. Defense still wins championships. Curry, Thompson, and Barnes were all locked down in game 7. I'm really not concerned about KD going to the warriors. The only thing I'm concerened with is if Popovich will allow Parker to run crazy on offense fucking us us in the 4th. We've got to stop them from scoring and they've got to stop us as well.

[Taking it to the Hole]

Adding Durant doesn't make the Dubs unbeatable. Some posters are commenting on this thread acting like there is no way to possibly defeat them now that they have Durant. You still have to play the game. The problem the Spurs had offensively last year against them is no motion on offense and not stopping them in transition. If the Spurs maybe learn how to pick and roll again plus compete on defense and gang rebound, you have as good a chance to beat them as anyone does. The Warriors got exposed this playoffs for the weaknesses in their system. If anything, now every team is going to be more prepared for them and they have a much larger bulls-eye on them then even the defending champions. The Spurs should focus on being a complete team rather than just a team that shoots threes in transition. Get high percentage shots. Pop may have to learn to abandon his reluctance to offensive rebound. Rebounding killed us last year and if we miss a shot, I would much rather us give up a fast break as a result of trying to get an offensive rebound. Our team needs to go back to fundamentals. That is who we are. That is why we have been successful for as long as we have been. Make sure you do the little things to win games and not make mental mistakes.

[Taking it to the Hole]

there is only 1 ball. How long have you guys been watching basketball? It's not as simple as, "add player here and add his shots". If KD is willing to decrease his shots and iso moments, it can work, but I don't see it. That means Thompson is bumped to a 3rd option. They're gonna be dangerous, but I'd be more concerned if GS had gotten Whiteside. That is what I was most concerned about. Adding KD did not solve their interiour defense, which sucked without Bogut last year. Defense still wins championships. Curry, Thompson, and Barnes were all locked down in game 7. I'm really not concerned about KD going to the warriors. The only thing I'm concerened with is if Popovich will allow Parker to run crazy on offense fucking us us in the 4th. We've got to stop them from scoring and they've got to stop us as well.

^^^THIS.

Exactly. Only one more player can have the ball at any given time. If you play great team defense you can negate one player with the ball.Adding Durant now makes it interesting to see how the shot selection is going to pan out. The Spurs need to reclaim their identity. They looked fearful of the Warriors last year and played with hesitation. They need to just go out and compete and let the chips fall where they may.

[SpurPadre]

The "there's only one ball" shit is so played out as an argument with superteams, especially this one, which is the greatest NBA superteam on paper of all time. Yes, of course there's only one fucking ball but that goes for every team in the league. At any given moment, the Dubs will have a player with the ball that will know what to do with it while there will be moments we'll have unproven guys like Bertans and Murray with that one ball. I'd much favor the Dubs chances in that "one ball" theory.

[Obstructed_View]

With the 4 they will have on the court at the same time, there is no stopping them whatsoever. None.

So you've stated your opinion. Now what part of the text that you quoted do you think is wrong?

[Obstructed_View]

The "there's only one ball" shit is so played out as an argument with superteams, especially this one, which is the greatest NBA superteam on paper of all time. Yes, of course there's only one fucking ball but that goes for every team in the league. At any given moment, the Dubs will have a player with the ball that will know what to do with it while there will be moments we'll have unproven guys like Bertans and Murray with that one ball. I'd much favor the Dubs chances in that "one ball" theory.

The one ball argument works with certain teams. The last time I recall using it was when Iverson was traded to Denver. When you had two guys whose egos are tied into how many shot attempts they get, it's not going to work. They suddenly aren't going to become "share-the-ball" guys. Durant has been through all this bullshit with Westbrook, so you know he doesn't care about his own shots at this point. The Warriors are all share-the-ball guys that just want to win. Given the way they've performed in big games, they might like having Durant around to bail them out if it gets tight.

[Russ]

I don't think that any jump shooting team is unbeatable.

[cjw]

I feel like Willie Reed is being overrated as hell right now.

This feels like people confusing him with Willis Reed (just as the Knicks FO probably confused Renaldo Balkman with Rolando Blackman.

[james evans]

The "there's only one ball" shit is so played out as an argument with superteams, especially this one, which is the greatest NBA superteam on paper of all time. Yes, of course there's only one fucking ball but that goes for every team in the league. At any given moment, the Dubs will have a player with the ball that will know what to do with it while there will be moments we'll have unproven guys like Bertans and Murray with that one ball. I'd much favor the Dubs chances in that "one ball" theory.
do you remember the 2000 trailblazers? the 2011 heat? the 2004 Lakers. Once again, you can't just add a player in and say, "here are all of his points, just add it to the team and there you have it". It doesn't work that way. If that's the case, Adding West and Aldridge would have been an extra 34ppg for us last season.

btw, I just read GS added west :lol

[Obstructed_View]

David West will end up on either Cleveland or Golden State.

Don't usually quote myself, but :lol. The Spurs' front line should be drooling over this matchup now.

[james evans]

Don't usually quote myself, but :lol. The Spurs' front line should be drooling over this matchup now.
I know that I am.

[callo1]

Hopefully that Lasik surgery Danny had gets his three ball to go in.

[callo1]

Too much to be made of Durant going to GS IMO. He would have helped a team looking in at the playoffs a lot more than a team that won 73 last season.

You beat them with execution and ball movement.

[DMC]

No one matched up against them last season.

They just doubled down. If they don't win this season they are going to get roasted to hell. That means pressure all season because of what they did this season.

Then you have Durant on a player option, one foot in and one foot out. He's not committed or at least on paper he's not. So you have a team that plays fluid basketball because they know each other, then you insert a major piece that needs to gel with the team. There's only one ball, and we know who needs to have it most often. Fortunately for Durant there aren't really any ball hogs on the team, just shooters and they like to shoot. If they get going, it's over before Christmas.

[itzsoweezee]

Parker simply cannot play against GSW's starters. Spurs are going to have to start Ginobili. Hopefully his body can handle it.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Then you have Durant on a player option, one foot in and one foot out. He's not committed or at least on paper he's not. So you have a team that plays fluid basketball because they know each other, then you insert a major piece that needs to gel with the team. There's only one ball, and we know who needs to have it most often. Fortunately for Durant there aren't really any ball hogs on the team, just shooters and they like to shoot. If they get going, it's over before Christmas.

The Warriors have been recruiting him for a long time already, and he's already made up his mind during the free agency period. Durant only signed that 2-year contract with player option for the second year because they can keep paying him more as the salary cap continues to expand. He's not going anywhere else.

[Arcadian]

They won't average 150 ppg as some people think. But they have 3 of the best scorers and the best triple-double guy in the league. That's gonna be a problem.

[cutewizard]

we are all humans, to err is human

so no team is unbeatable.....i think even Boston can easily beat GS now, just an opinion of course, haha

i dont fear the Warriors now, their bench is gutted....

[YGWHI]

Even their best player would rather take a couple of dribbles, do a shimmy shakes or two and pull up for 10-15 ft. jumper rather than take it to the basket.

Their best player was attacking the rim later in the season and looked really good doing it.

Hopefully, Pop gives him the opportunity to continue improving this area of his game, but who knows, it's likely he thinks Parker or Manu are still able to drive and finish strong and give them the ball again


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLF60X8NFt4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSZJhke7FEc
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[Sean Cagney]

The one ball argument works with certain teams. The last time I recall using it was when Iverson was traded to Denver. When you had two guys whose egos are tied into how many shot attempts they get, it's not going to work. They suddenly aren't going to become "share-the-ball" guys. Durant has been through all this bullshit with Westbrook, so you know he doesn't care about his own shots at this point. The Warriors are all share-the-ball guys that just want to win. Given the way they've performed in big games, they might like having Durant around to bail them out if it gets tight.
To be fair Durant has not faired well either when it gets tight at the end of games in the playoffs, just saying........ I agree though with the post above.
we are all humans, to err is human

so no team is unbeatable.....i think even Boston can easily beat GS now, just an opinion of course, haha

i dont fear the Warriors now, their bench is gutted....I disagree on the last two things you said but the top one I agree on.

[Russo21]

DWADE seems pretty pissed off in Miami. Wish there was a way we could grab him. Imagine

Pau
LMA
Kawhi
Green
Wade

Bench
Tim
Manu
Tony
The other scrubs

Yeah the money doesn't work but whatever :)

[AFMadison]

DWADE seems pretty pissed off in Miami. Wish there was a way we could grab him. Imagine

Pau
LMA
Kawhi
Green
Wade

Bench
Tim
Manu
Tony
The other scrubs

Yeah the money doesn't work but whatever :)
I thought about that too, DWade running point would be sick but no way in hell even if we had half of what he's asking

[Chinook]

The Warriors have been recruiting him for a long time already, and he's already made up his mind during the free agency period. Durant only signed that 2-year contract with player option for the second year because they can keep paying him more as the salary cap continues to expand. He's not going anywhere else.

I think it's hard to say something like that with any conviction. KD is already broken. He no longer has enough integrity to where you assume he's going to stay. I don't mean that pejoratively. It's just true. If GS disappoints or if things don't look good, I think he'll consider bolting. That's even more true considering that GS is looking at long-term money and fit issues that the Heatles didn't have to worry about as much. Come next summer, any semblance of depth the team has will be gone, and you can't simply fill those spots with cast-offs every season. Even Miami had role-players on long-term contracts on whom they could rely to grow within the system. And with a strong possibility of a lockout next summer (and the rule changes that may leave), you just never know.

[objective]

Come next summer, any semblance of depth the team has will be gone, and you can't simply fill those spots with cast-offs every season. Even Miami had role-players on long-term contracts on whom they could rely to grow within the system. And with a strong possibility of a lockout next summer (and the rule changes that may leave), you just never know.

I think that's not a fair assessment. Warriors have all their draft picks and have been fine drafting and developing. Miami dumped a bunch of firsts to get the big three and didn't take the draft or player development seriously, Riley was all about vets.

Heck, the Warriors paid the big money to buy the pick that became McCaw. They didn't even have to give up any picks to dump Bogut. Their depth will only get better with each season. Guys will have plenty of time to play in the 60+ blowouts the Warriors will win. The scoring margin will be absurd.

[Chinook]

I think that's not a fair assessment. Warriors have all their draft picks and have been fine drafting and developing. Miami dumped a bunch of firsts to get the big three and didn't take the draft or player development seriously, Riley was all about vets.

The Warriors don't even own their pick for next season. And they a fine at drafting and all that, but those players cost money if they're first-rounders, whereas vets usually don't (aren't using the MLE on rookies). You're right that there is a difference in organizational philosophy, but that doesn't line up the realities of keeping guys together.


Heck, the Warriors paid the big money to buy the pick that became McCaw. They didn't even have to give up any picks to dump Bogut. Their depth will only get better with each season. Guys will have plenty of time to play in the 60+ blowouts the Warriors will win. The scoring margin will be absurd.

No. Their depth is going to get worse, because Iggy and Livingston are going to go away. To suggest that the guys they're developing (which is only Looney and McCaw at this point) are going to not just take over those spots but do it in a way that improves the depth, is off-base. The Heatles never had to worry about having to find cap space to re-sign their stars. The Warriors have to do that next year, and the cap between what Steph and KD make now versus what they'll make in a year is much greater than the gap between the cap now and the cap next summer. Of course, Durant opting in fixes that issue. But if that were something he was considering, he wouldn't have signed a one-plus-one to begin with.

[YGWHI]

To be fair, the Spurs exposed the Warriors in that one game. It's the blueprint everyone else used to beat them for the rest of the season.
Agree.

At the same time, that game helped to build their confidence against us.

Sure, "several sources"...but who knows.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmjeewXVUAAI_1R.jpg

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Agree.

At the same time, that game helped to build their confidence against us.

Sure, "several sources"...but who knows.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmjeewXVUAAI_1R.jpg

I hope the players see that, that got me fired up:ihit

[popdagreat]

need to light a fire under pops ass tho.

[r0drig0lac]

we are all humans, to err is human

so no team is unbeatable.....i think even Boston can easily beat GS now, just an opinion of course, haha

i dont fear the Warriors now, their bench is gutted....

jesus

[Obstructed_View]

Agree.

At the same time, that game helped to build their confidence against us.

Sure, "several sources"...but who knows.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmjeewXVUAAI_1R.jpg

Herein lies the genius of Pop the psychology major. The defensive strategy was so successful that Pop hardly used it in the subsequent matchups with the Warriors. Since it only happened once, they could write it off as a fluke and continue. Portland and OKC and Cleveland all beat them using the defensive blueprint from that game, and they simply couldn't adjust by that point because it was too late. When Bogut got injured, they were fucked.

[objective]

The Warriors don't even own their pick for next season. And they a fine at drafting and all that, but those players cost money if they're first-rounders, whereas vets usually don't (aren't using the MLE on rookies). You're right that there is a difference in organizational philosophy, but that doesn't line up the realities of keeping guys together.

So what if they players cost what firsts do? It's going to be the 30th pick every year. Barely more than any roster charge. They won't be pursuing free agents under caproom anymore. They aren't some cheap team, especially not after they get their new stadium and of course all this Durant revenue.


No. Their depth is going to get worse, because Iggy and Livingston are going to go away. To suggest that the guys they're developing (which is only Looney and McCaw at this point) are going to not just take over those spots but do it in a way that improves the depth, is off-base. The Heatles never had to worry about having to find cap space to re-sign their stars. The Warriors have to do that next year, and the cap between what Steph and KD make now versus what they'll make in a year is much greater than the gap between the cap now and the cap next summer. Of course, Durant opting in fixes that issue. But if that were something he was considering, he wouldn't have signed a one-plus-one to begin with.

I don't see any problems with the Warriors cap next year at all with it going up to nearly 108 by last report I saw. Other than maybe downgrading Iguodala, who will be getting older, they'll be fine even with the cap holds for Durant and Curry. Renounce Zaza, have the usual rookie scale guys, and roster charges, re-sign vets to minimums and room exception for Zaza or some other ring chaser. Then after those two re-up, it's smooth sailing of taxpayer MLEs and the like.

I think Durant did the opt out because after next year because he'll be at the 10+ year mark and can get a bigger percentile of the cap as his max. If he was a 10 year player this year instead of 9, he would have started at 30.9 million instead of 26.54

[playbonner15]

DWADE seems pretty pissed off in Miami. Wish there was a way we could grab him. Imagine

Pau
LMA
Kawhi
Green
Wade

Bench
Tim
Manu
Tony
The other scrubs

Yeah the money doesn't work but whatever :)

This team aint a retirement home

[Tully365]

The Warriors don't even own their pick for next season. And they a fine at drafting and all that, but those players cost money if they're first-rounders, whereas vets usually don't (aren't using the MLE on rookies). You're right that there is a difference in organizational philosophy, but that doesn't line up the realities of keeping guys together.



No. Their depth is going to get worse, because Iggy and Livingston are going to go away. To suggest that the guys they're developing (which is only Looney and McCaw at this point) are going to not just take over those spots but do it in a way that improves the depth, is off-base. The Heatles never had to worry about having to find cap space to re-sign their stars. The Warriors have to do that next year, and the cap between what Steph and KD make now versus what they'll make in a year is much greater than the gap between the cap now and the cap next summer. Of course, Durant opting in fixes that issue. But if that were something he was considering, he wouldn't have signed a one-plus-one to begin with.

I think if they win a championship, it's completely plausible Steph & Durant consider each taking a little bit less to keep Iggy and/or Livingston. They'll understand that with the astronomical rise in the Cap, they'll be making more than anyone dreamed of making just three or four years ago. They were there to witness LeBron, Wade, and Bosh take small cuts and get to the finals four straight years, and it seems pretty likely that a sit down with Jerry West would result in a similar small financial sacrifice.

[tbdog]

So what if they players cost what firsts do? It's going to be the 30th pick every year. Barely more than any roster charge. They won't be pursuing free agents under caproom anymore. They aren't some cheap team, especially not after they get their new stadium and of course all this Durant revenue.

I don't see any problems with the Warriors cap next year at all with it going up to nearly 108 by last report I saw. Other than maybe downgrading Iguodala, who will be getting older, they'll be fine even with the cap holds for Durant and Curry. Renounce Zaza, have the usual rookie scale guys, and roster charges, re-sign vets to minimums and room exception for Zaza or some other ring chaser. Then after those two re-up, it's smooth sailing of taxpayer MLEs and the like.

I think Durant did the opt out because after next year because he'll be at the 10+ year mark and can get a bigger percentile of the cap as his max. If he was a 10 year player this year instead of 9, he would have started at 30.9 million instead of 26.54

No, their cap room will hurt, a lot.

Klay 17.8m
Green 16.4m
Curry 30m?
Durant 30m?

That is roughly 94m. That is a lot of dough to give up on 4 guys. And with only 14m to round out your roster, and 14m isn't much when guys like Solomon Hill is getting 13 mil a pop. Livingston can easily net 10mil, same as Iggy, and I suspect them to request that. They will have to get sneaky and get lucky with contributing draft picks and ring chasing vets. And ring chasing vets are going to need to drop a lot of coin compared to last season. Heck Gasol just took a pay cut to join us and we are playing him 15m for he year. With yearly wage rises and penalties for breaching the salary in consecutive years, it puts more and more pressure for teams to keep the payroll. For example, Heat gave up M.Miller for nothing just to lower the salary.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

No, their cap room will hurt, a lot.

Klay 17.8m
Green 16.4m
Curry 30m?
Durant 30m?

That is roughly 94m. That is a lot of dough to give up on 4 guys. And with only 14m to round out your roster, and 14m isn't much when guys like Solomon Hill is getting 13 mil a pop. Livingston can easily net 10mil, same as Iggy, and I suspect them to request that. They will have to get sneaky and get lucky with contributing draft picks and ring chasing vets. And ring chasing vets are going to need to drop a lot of coin compared to last season. Heck Gasol just took a pay cut to join us and we are playing him 15m for he year. With yearly wage rises and penalties for breaching the salary in consecutive years, it puts more and more pressure for teams to keep the payroll. For example, Heat gave up M.Miller for nothing just to lower the salary.

Not really. Curry's cap hold is much lower than his actual salary will be so they'll have some money to spend and take care of him last.

[Chinook]

So what if they players cost what firsts do? It's going to be the 30th pick every year. Barely more than any roster charge. They won't be pursuing free agents under caproom anymore. They aren't some cheap team, especially not after they get their new stadium and of course all this Durant revenue.

That means less than nothing. I'm talking about actual cap space.


I don't see any problems with the Warriors cap next year at all with it going up to nearly 108 by last report I saw. Other than maybe downgrading Iguodala, who will be getting older, they'll be fine even with the cap holds for Durant and Curry. Renounce Zaza, have the usual rookie scale guys, and roster charges, re-sign vets to minimums and room exception for Zaza or some other ring chaser. Then after those two re-up, it's smooth sailing of taxpayer MLEs and the like.

I don't get why you're being obtuse about this. I don't mean to sound offensive, but it doesn't make sense. The Warriors are at $35 Million in salaries next year and $4 Million in roster charges (assuming they keep the holds for Curry and KD). So they would have $69 Million in cap space. Durant's max is $35.6 Million, so that pushes them down to $33.4 Million. Curry's max is $30.5 Million. So that leaves $2.9 Million in cap space. To put that into perspective, they couldn't even give Zaza an option, because he and McCaw would have put them over. Hell, I doubt if West was even able to get an option this time around.

To say that a team who has four players, one prospect and only two $3 Millionish contracts to offer in a landscape where mediocre guys are getting $20 Million a year has nothing to worry about in terms of depth is absurd. We're talking about the same summer where three superstars and about a dozen other high-level guys will be available. We could easily see another "superteam" or two forming, including one in San Antonio. The Warriors aren't going to have such an obvious pick of ring-chasers next season if they fail to win it all this year.

(EDIT: I will say that I forgot about Curry's cap hold for some reason. That gives them a bit more money (provided the CBA doesn't change [which it may if the owners are seriously that concerned about what the Warriors are doing]) that gives them $10-15 Million in space. That's more manageable, but it's still not that great.)


I think Durant did the opt out because after next year because he'll be at the 10+ year mark and can get a bigger percentile of the cap as his max. If he was a 10 year player this year instead of 9, he would have started at 30.9 million instead of 26.54

Indeed, that's the reasoning, but it has no bearing on the reality.

[Chinook]

I think if they win a championship, it's completely plausible Steph & Durant consider each taking a little bit less to keep Iggy and/or Livingston. They'll understand that with the astronomical rise in the Cap, they'll be making more than anyone dreamed of making just three or four years ago. They were there to witness LeBron, Wade, and Bosh take small cuts and get to the finals four straight years, and it seems pretty likely that a sit down with Jerry West would result in a similar small financial sacrifice.

They'd have to take more than small cuts to make it worth it. They only have $3 Million in cap space right now. If Durant wants to help GS, he can really only do that by opting in. If he opts out, I think the Warriors' chance to losing him is a lot higher than people are assuming. There will be teams who are better able to put rosters around him.

[Chinook]

Not really. Curry's cap hold is much lower than his actual salary will be so they'll have some money to spend and take care of him last.

It might not be. It'll be between $18-23 Million. And sure, that's less than $30 Million, but it's not all that much less in this environment. That'll get them closer to $10-15 Million to replace Iggy and Livingston. Much more possible, but also not overwhelming considering the max slots that SA and Boston will have. That said, with OKC's collapse and LAC's impeding breakup, the league is going to be about as weak as it's ever been.

[r0drig0lac]

Durant is not coming out of GSW after 1 year, and he and Curry will have discounts to keep the strongest possible team, it is clear

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It might not be. It'll be between $18-23 Million. And sure, that's less than $30 Million, but it's not all that much less in this environment. That'll get them closer to $10-15 Million to replace Iggy and Livingston. Much more possible, but also not overwhelming considering the max slots that SA and Boston will have. That said, with OKC's collapse and LAC's impeding breakup, the league is going to be about as weak as it's ever been.

BasketballInsiders have it at $18,168,539. Their info is usually reliable, so if it's true they'll have a little room to operate.

Wonder if teams would be wary to deal with them the way they've been with the Spurs in the past. Once you get a reputation of a great FO that complicates matters when dealing with others.

[objective]

That means less than nothing. I'm talking about actual cap space.



I don't get why you're being obtuse about this. I don't mean to sound offensive, but it doesn't make sense. The Warriors are at $35 Million in salaries next year and $4 Million in roster charges (assuming they keep the holds for Curry and KD). So they would have $69 Million in cap space. Durant's max is $35.6 Million, so that pushes them down to $33.4 Million. Curry's max is $30.5 Million. So that leaves $2.9 Million in cap space. To put that into perspective, they couldn't even give Zaza an option, because he and McCaw would have put them over. Hell, I doubt if West was even able to get an option this time around.

To say that a team who has four players, one prospect and only two $3 Millionish contracts to offer in a landscape where mediocre guys are getting $20 Million a year has nothing to worry about in terms of depth is absurd. We're talking about the same summer where three superstars and about a dozen other high-level guys will be available. We could easily see another "superteam" or two forming, including one in San Antonio. The Warriors aren't going to have such an obvious pick of ring-chasers next season if they fail to win it all this year.

(EDIT: I will say that I forgot about Curry's cap hold for some reason. That gives them a bit more money (provided the CBA doesn't change [which it may if the owners are seriously that concerned about what the Warriors are doing]) that gives them $10-15 Million in space. That's more manageable, but it's still not that great.)



Indeed, that's the reasoning, but it has no bearing on the reality.

nothing obtuse. And I don't mean to sound offensive, but I think you're in denial.

Curry's cap hold is going to be under 19 million. The cap will be 108. No one is being chased away other than maybe fading players like Iguodala, who could still sign cheaper. They're too vain to make the same mistakes Miami did of letting the tax cost them good role players with cutting a Mike Miller.

They're going to be loaded, period.

Just 48 hours ago or so I posted about how GS would be fine getting bodies as ring chasing bigs, and you responded that it didn't make sense. Well, they got bodies in a starter from a playoff team with an above average PER in Zaza and a significant rotation big from a playoff team in West without any caproom and they're not finished yet. There will always be ringchasers, and they will be okay with young players. The core 4 of Curry, Durant, Thompson and Green are all under 30 with many years of prime left.

Does that make sense now?

[edit - I typed this all out then cut and pasted into a reply with a quote before I saw your curry cap hold edit)

[MaNu4Tres]

I just hate how Spurs gave Gasol the 2nd year as a player option. It's going to ruin Spurs' flexibility next off-season.

Odds are Gasol doesn't have a better year than last year and he opts in.

He's going on 37 years old, and he won't see nearly as many touches as he did in Chicago. Only way I could see him increase his value is if he went to a situation like Chicago where his touches were maximized, in SA, playing with Aldridge and Kawhi, his touches will be very limited and he'll put up 11 and 8 with okay defense -- not enough to warrant opting out and expecting a bigger pay day -- especially considering he's 36 going on 37 years old.

If they were going to tie up money for next year too, the better play in the long run for Kawhi/Aldridge/Green's next 3-4 years was to go after Biyombo instead of Gasol -- even at the expense of 1 yr rental in Patty/ Diaw. IMO

[Chinook]

nothing obtuse. And I don't mean to sound offensive, but I think you're in denial.

Curry's cap hold is going to be under 19 million. The cap will be 108. No one is being chased away other than maybe fading players like Iguodala, who could still sign cheaper. They're too vain to make the same mistakes Miami did of letting the tax cost them good role players with cutting a Mike Miller.

I don't think it's warranted at all for GS to act like they are above the Heatles. Four straight Finals and two rings may well be better than what the Triple Triplets and their ball-kicking sidekick will do. You're missing my point about cap space, though. The Heat focusing on vets allowed them to ignore the cap (for years anyway). The guys they signed were mostly exceptions after Miller and Haslem.

The Warriors really won't have that type of leeway and may not until 2018. They have to hope they develop the right guys, and before you assume they will, remember that OKC drafted three superstars and another top player before having a long stretch of mediocre to bust picks. Right now, the Warriors have Looney, that big from Vandy and McCaw in their pipeline. We have no reason to assume any of those guys are going to be role-players on championship teams. None of them are as good as Chalmers or Norris Cole yet. I'm not inclined to say the Warriors are going to have great homegrown depth right now.


Just 48 hours ago or so I posted about how GS would be fine getting bodies as ring chasing bigs, and you responded that it didn't make sense.

And it still doesn't. In no way does signing Zaza and West mean they are prepared to handle the Spurs' bigs. Bogut graded out as the best defender in the NBA last season. That doesn't get replaced by ring-chasers very often. And please don't try to dress up Zaza. He's a huge step down from Bogut, though he'll help them a lot in rebounding.


There will always be ringchasers

Yes, there will be. But with the way OKC broke up, we may see a lot more competition for them. Sure, that foursome is great, but what about Paul/Leonard/LMA/Gasol or Thomas/Harden (assuming Houston wises up and trades him)/Ibaka/Horford, or Westbrook/Hayward/Griffin or really any combination of those guys or more? You think this is going to end with GS and everyone else for years? Of course not. There will be other superteams joining up to challenge them unless the CBA negotiations prevent it. Don't pull a Lacob; it's not going to take long at all for the league to catch up to the Warriors.

[NameLess Scrub]

You don't, it's over.

[NameLess Scrub]

In no way does signing Zaza and West mean they are prepared to handle the Spurs' bigs. Bogut graded out as the best defender in the NBA last season. That doesn't get replaced by ring-chasers very often. And please don't try to dress up Zaza. He's a huge step down from Bogut, though he'll help them a lot in rebounding.



Yes, there will be. But with the way OKC broke up, we may see a lot more competition for them. Sure, that foursome is great, but what about Paul/Leonard/LMA/Gasol or Thomas/Harden (assuming Houston wises up and trades him)/Ibaka/Horford, or Westbrook/Hayward/Griffin or really any combination of those guys or more? You think this is going to end with GS and everyone else for years? Of course not. There will be other superteams joining up to challenge them unless the CBA negotiations prevent it. Don't pull a Lacob; it's not going to take long at all for the league to catch up to the Warriors.

Well, Zaza should be enough to execute illegal screens and occasionally try to injure opponents :lol
Maybe the system will allow him rank better as a defender.

I don't think the league will completely catch up to them. Apparently Lebron will try to bring Wade to the Cavs, but even that wouldn't be enough IMO.

The reason I think this, is because of the Warriors unique position of advantage, since they rarely lost last season, didn't win the title on arguably a fluke, and Curry doesn't make max money. I think it is possible that once Curry gets paid and somehow the team is finally constrained by money, GS will go back down to a level in which other teams will be able to beat them after their moves.

Barring injuries, I expect to dominate the league this year, even if they lose the rebounding or points in the paint match ups.

[objective]

And it still doesn't. In no way does signing Zaza and West mean they are prepared to handle the Spurs' bigs. Bogut graded out as the best defender in the NBA last season. That doesn't get replaced by ring-chasers very often. And please don't try to dress up Zaza. He's a huge step down from Bogut, though he'll help them a lot in rebounding.

Don't dress up Zaza? The Mavs don't make the playoffs with Zaza. Zaza isn't as good as Bogut, no. But the jump from Zaza to Bogut is a lot smaller than the jump from Barnes to Durant. In a big way. Zaza's defense will look a lot better with GS when he isn't having to deal with the Mavs crap defenders making his life harder.

And when it comes to the games, I like the Warriors chances of handling Pau and Aldridge on both sides of the ball than Parker or Mills against anyone on Golden State.


Yes, there will be. But with the way OKC broke up, we may see a lot more competition for them. Sure, that foursome is great, but what about Paul/Leonard/LMA/Gasol or Thomas/Harden (assuming Houston wises up and trades him)/Ibaka/Horford, or Westbrook/Hayward/Griffin or really any combination of those guys or more? You think this is going to end with GS and everyone else for years? Of course not. There will be other superteams joining up to challenge them unless the CBA negotiations prevent it. Don't pull a Lacob; it's not going to take long at all for the league to catch up to the Warriors.

It took a rare confluence of events to get this superteam off the ground. Having Durant come up at just the same time that the cap had it's huge explosion, Curry's cheap deal because of his prior ankle troubles ... the quality of the players vs dollar ratio is almost impossible to match with any other Superteam. Durant and Curry are two, what, top 5 players? No one else in your examples come close. And that's just the quality of the players. Can any other team possibly free up the room? Would the fit be as good?

This isn't Miami, where 2 ball dominant poor-shooting wings and an all-star big got together and had to work at figuring it out. Hell, Miami added Miller that summer too. All that was left of the prior Miami was, Wade and Haslem? Maybe a couple of other tiny pieces? That team getting chemistry together was a big deal, because nobody had any chemistry! No one had played together. And the games didn't fit perfectly. This is so much bigger than Miami. There was debate over whether Miami would get 73. Golden State just did it WITHOUT Durant.

The Warriors already have that chemistry. They have the established team. 3 of their big 4 have GREAT chemistry together, 4 of 5 if you want to count Iguodala. All they have to do is work in Durant, who will fit perfectly as a shooter who doesn't have to dominate the ball, and let the dumb bigs do bigs work. It's absurd to think of the looks they'll get. The numbers are staggering. David Locke annoyed me today with his Diaw gloating but his other shows have been pretty stark in laying out how devastating it will be. The guys on the Dunc'd On podcast, who though Warrior homers are usually very even handed and stat based, literally giggled over how unstoppable the Warriors will be. Giggled like a schoolgirl, not even joking.

When you have what many would consider 4 of the top 15 players in the league, whose skillsets fit like a glove, all together, the other Superteams will be like the Garnett Nets. No threat.

It is the 5 stages of grief with fans all over the NBA. Denial over what bigs they can get, bargaining over maybe someday their luck will run out with ringchasers and spots 5-8 in the rotation, anger over the league and against Durant. Depression and acceptance will come.

[r0drig0lac]

When you have what many would consider 4 of the top 15 players in the league, whose skillsets fit like a glove, all together, the other Superteams will be like the Garnett Nets. No threat.

It is the 5 stages of grief with fans all over the NBA. Denial over what bigs they can get, bargaining over maybe someday their luck will run out with ringchasers and spots 5-8 in the rotation, anger over the league and against Durant. Depression and acceptance will come.

word, fans of other good teams are in denial, it's just a ridiculously perfect wedding

[r0drig0lac]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/07/bulpett_inside_the_dealings_that_delivered_kevin_d urant_to_the_warriors?utm_campaign=bostonherald_tr ending_stories&utm_source=bostonherald&utm_medium=trending_stories

[Texas_Ranger]

someone just needs to break Curry's legs and the Spurs will match up just fine.

[objective]

And I concede that I believed that Miami would steamroll the league. Their actual results showed the importance of chemistry and fit.

But the funny thing is, they nearly did steamroll the league. Despite the wonky fits and chemistry and coach bumping and Miller-cutting, they knocked down 4 straight finals appearances. And if Lebron had stayed and Bosh not had his health issues, no doubt in my mind that it would currently be at 6 in a row.

Despite the difficulties of figuring out who got the ball when, or Bosh having to adjust to a drastically different role than he had in Toronto, or the cheap owner using the amnesty, and all that jazz, they were an incredible team that was guaranteed a finals spot every year they were together. Sure, the east, but still.

The Warriors were better. But now they're adding Durant.

Spurs fans can hope and pray. Hope for injuries, however distasteful that may seem. Pray for suspensions, God knows they'll deserve some. Hope for something incredible happening with Pau, or Bertans, or Murray, or Ginobili ... Pray that Duncan's cartilage to heal, Pray for Parker turn back time. Hope that Green's shot is back. Hope Pop coaches up to his reputation. Pray Warrior egos somehow cause disruption.

Fingers crossed.

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs don't have to hope for injuries, they don't have to pray for failure of the other team. They just have to build their team and take their chances, just like every other team. It's sports. Nothing is guaranteed. Bigger favorites have lost, and bigger underdogs have won.

[Chinook]

Don't dress up Zaza? The Mavs don't make the playoffs with Zaza. Zaza isn't as good as Bogut, no. But the jump from Zaza to Bogut is a lot smaller than the jump from Barnes to Durant. In a big way. Zaza's defense will look a lot better with GS when he isn't having to deal with the Mavs crap defenders making his life harder.

And when it comes to the games, I like the Warriors chances of handling Pau and Aldridge on both sides of the ball than Parker or Mills against anyone on Golden State.

I think you underestimate the extent to which the Warriors' loss of bigs is going to affect them. They replaced Bogut, Ezeli and Speights with Zaza and West. They lost a great deal of size and defense. They're definitely going to struggle with size, just as they will struggle with their minute load. Smart teams will be able to ram that weakness down their throats. As far as the other end goes, it's not really a huge deal. People can talk about the upgrade from Barnes to Durant as much as they like, but the effect is the same. You defend them the exact same way you always did. People are overthinking this massively. This isn't fantasy basketball here.


When you have what many would consider 4 of the top 15 players in the league, whose skillsets fit like a glove, all together, the other Superteams will be like the Garnett Nets. No threat.

That's just silly. The Mavs took down a superteam with just one star, and the Spurs did with none (and should have done so twice). I understand that people think GS is like the Heatles on steroids, but the reason why both of those things happened is the same reason why GS is vulnerable. It doesn't matter how many stars you have, or how hard it is to guard them. You only get so many shots a game. If the Warriors lose the rebounding battle to the extent that the other team gets significantly more possessions, then the efficiency gap (which is just assumed, mind you), will not be as big of a deal. And for all the talk about how open everyone will be, the Spurs can absolutely lock down two of the Warriors' guys and force someone like Klay to beat them four times. Good luck with that.


It is the 5 stages of grief with fans all over the NBA. Denial over what bigs they can get, bargaining over maybe someday their luck will run out with ringchasers and spots 5-8 in the rotation, anger over the league and against Durant. Depression and acceptance will come.

I can simply shake my head at this. The Warriors just lost after being up 3-1. They'll NEVER be more favored for a title than they were then. To act like they can't be beaten is silly. Now, obviously they're favorites. But I would not be surprised at all if they lose this season.

[Chinook]

The Spurs don't have to hope for injuries, they don't have to pray for failure of the other team. They just have to build their team and take their chances, just like every other team. It's sports. Nothing is guaranteed. Bigger favorites have lost, and bigger underdogs have won.

There's a clearer path to beating them this season than there was last season. I think the margin for error is narrower, but they have an exploitable weakness. I think the 2014 Spurs would have had a great chance in a series against them, like great than 35 percent.

[DMC]

The Warriors have been recruiting him for a long time already, and he's already made up his mind during the free agency period. Durant only signed that 2-year contract with player option for the second year because they can keep paying him more as the salary cap continues to expand. He's not going anywhere else.
That's what "on paper" means.

[MaNu4Tres]

I think you underestimate the extent to which the Warriors' loss of bigs is going to affect them. They replaced Bogut, Ezeli and Speights with Zaza and West. They lost a great deal of size and defense. They're definitely going to struggle with size, just as they will struggle with their minute load. Smart teams will be able to ram that weakness down their throats. As far as the other end goes, it's not really a huge deal. People can talk about the upgrade from Barnes to Durant as much as they like, but the effect is the same. You defend them the exact same way you always did. People are overthinking this massively. This isn't fantasy basketball here.



That's just silly. The Mavs took down a superteam with just one star, and the Spurs did with none (and should have done so twice). I understand that people think GS is like the Heatles on steroids, but the reason why both of those things happened is the same reason why GS is vulnerable. It doesn't matter how many stars you have, or how hard it is to guard them. You only get so many shots a game. If the Warriors lose the rebounding battle to the extent that the other team gets significantly more possessions, then the efficiency gap (which is just assumed, mind you), will not be as big of a deal. .

I couldn't agree more with what you just said.

The general public LOVES offense and LOVES points points points and underrates defense. Warriors are losing elite interior D and replacing it with terrible interior D. That will be a problem for them.

As for the offense, Warriors were historically efficient last year maximizing touches for MVP Curry. There's no way he'll be able to manufacturer the same amount of production/effectiveness sharing touches with volume Durant next to him. As you said, you only get so many shots per game. I for one, am hoping West plays a significant role because not having a role man in the offense will hurt their open looks from the weakside and teams will take all that away and give up the pick n pop two from West.

[DMC]

The Spurs don't have to hope for injuries, they don't have to pray for failure of the other team. They just have to build their team and take their chances, just like every other team. It's sports. Nothing is guaranteed. Bigger favorites have lost, and bigger underdogs have won.
Spurs didn't even meet the Warriors in the playoffs this season yet a lot of forum yap was dedicated to the fear of that matchup. We got beat down by OKC instead. Now the guy who beat us down joined the guys who we spent the entire season fearing the most. That's a hard pill to swallow and pretending it's just another day in the city is gas lighting. We're fucked from a ring standpoint, but will do OK in the RS.

Injuries are all we have left going for us.

[r0drig0lac]

If the Warriors lose the rebounding battle to the extent that the other team gets significantly more possessions, then the efficiency gap (which is just assumed, mind you), will not be as big of a deal.

this is a good point, though Kevin is an elite rebounder.

And yes, lose Bogut will make a difference (illegal screens, defense, QI), at least for a season

[Chinook]

I couldn't agree more with what you just said.

This just feels weird, don't you think?


The general public LOVES offense and LOVES points points points and underrates defense. Warriors are losing elite interior D and replacing it with terrible interior D. That will be a problem for them.

And it will. Their talent to make up for it most of the time, but it will be an issue. Like if Boban comes back, GS literally has no one who can guard him. The same would be true for Bourousis. And that's just talking man-to-man. Kawhi and Parker will have much easier times scoring when the help is coming from inferior defenders. GS' system will help a lot, but I think after another year of game-planning for it, teams will be ready to deal with it, just as they were with Miami's PnR D.


As for the offense, Warriors were historically efficient last year maximizing touches for MVP Curry. There's no way he'll be able to manufacturer the same amount of production/effectiveness sharing touches with volume Durant next to him. As you said, you only get so many shots per game. I for one, am hoping West plays a significant role because not having a role man in the offense will hurt their open looks from the weakside and teams will take all that away and give up the pick n pop two from West.

It's just a really big deal. People are blowing off the phrase "There is only one ball" as if it's just about sharing. It's not. It's about buckets. GS will be better at making them, but only marginally. And they'll be worse at stopping people from making them and at stopping people from stealing more opportunities to due so.

[objective]

I think you underestimate the extent to which the Warriors' loss of bigs is going to affect them. They replaced Bogut, Ezeli and Speights with Zaza and West. They lost a great deal of size and defense. They're definitely going to struggle with size, just as they will struggle with their minute load. Smart teams will be able to ram that weakness down their throats. As far as the other end goes, it's not really a huge deal. People can talk about the upgrade from Barnes to Durant as much as they like, but the effect is the same. You defend them the exact same way you always did. People are overthinking this massively. This isn't fantasy basketball here.

They can still add Speights as far as I know. I don't know if he's signed anywhere else. It'd be the minimum, but they can get him. And let's see who else they finally end up adding to the roster. If it's No-Name Player, then there might be a bigger risk. I don't think it will be.

And people defending Durant and Barnes the same ... Barnes did get some open looks he bricked hard. I like Durant's chances to improve on the results, quite a bit.


That's just silly. The Mavs took down a superteam with just one star, and the Spurs did with none (and should have done so twice). I understand that people think GS is like the Heatles on steroids, but the reason why both of those things happened is the same reason why GS is vulnerable. It doesn't matter how many stars you have, or how hard it is to guard them. You only get so many shots a game. If the Warriors lose the rebounding battle to the extent that the other team gets significantly more possessions, then the efficiency gap (which is just assumed, mind you), will not be as big of a deal. And for all the talk about how open everyone will be, the Spurs can absolutely lock down two of the Warriors' guys and force someone like Klay to beat them four times. Good luck with that.

The Warriors efficiency gap will be tremendous. The amount of open 3 pointers attempted per game by Curry and Klay last year was surprising, all due to their spacing. Even Durant shot a lot of open threes. Now altogether, it's a nightmare. Their Locke Offensive Ratings as a team, which measures how well a player uses an individual possession compared to average, was historic this past season. With Durant it could be an extinction level event. The efficiencies are no joke. They aren't a team that's only reputation or hype. It's real. They won a title, and if not for suspension and injury was moments from making it two in a row. They won 73 games (even with ref help, but still, 73 games). Better than Miami.

Yes, the Spurs have two defenders that could/should greatly impact Durant and Curry. What about Parker? They had two guys against OKC's big two, that didn't turn out so great.


I can simply shake my head at this. The Warriors just lost after being up 3-1. They'll NEVER be more favored for a title than they were then. To act like they can't be beaten is silly. Now, obviously they're favorites. But I would not be surprised at all if they lose this season.

You're not going to pretend that nothing at all changed for the Warriors after they were up 3-1, are you? Are you convinced that they still lose the series that went down to the final minutes if Green is never suspended and Bogut never hurt? Injuries are part of the game, sure, and if they are similarly injured (such as our mighty Zaza) or have a suspension (with Draymond), then yeah, the Spurs & the rest of the league have increased chances. But let's not forget ... they just added Durant instead of Barnes.

They might be the biggest favorites in NBA history by the time the season starts.

Where is the dispute?

I will concede, if there are injuries in their rotation, they are more gettable. Durant has broken a foot before. Iguodala had some issues. Curry's legs could be a problem.

Otherwise the Spurs will be major, major, major underdogs barring some sort of Bertans/Murray/x-factor revelation. I would bet on Bertans if I wasn't so suspicious of Pop and how he treats rookies.

[objective]

Parker will have much easier times scoring when the help is coming from inferior defenders. GS' system will help a lot, but I think after another year of game-planning for it, teams will be ready to deal with it, just as they were with Miami's PnR D.

I have no faith anymore that Parker could score even if the Warriors were playing Ayres and West for 35 minutes on the interior.

There was more to Golden State's defense than Bogut, just like there was more to San Antonio than Duncan.

[Killakobe81]

:lol you can't beat them, realistically, without injuries..

This isn't anything like Miami, this is a much more natural fit..

This.
they will need time to adjust.
I bet they overpass and force feed durant early on ...

But their 3 best scorers are all catch and shoot guys.
Green and Iggy are playmaking pass first forwards.

It took the heat longer because Wade and Lebron are both wired to playmake and are less system reliant because of their insane athleticism.
That state system is much more conducive to integrating durant.

[Chinook]

And people defending Durant and Barnes the same ... Barnes did get some open looks he bricked hard. I like Durant's chances to improve on the results, quite a bit.

It won't be quite a bit. Barnes was a good shooter for them. Durant would be too. KD is a really good shooter, but he's not legendary. If he's spotting up, it's just a token increase. That's not where he's supposed to make his money with the team.


The amount of open 3 pointers attempted per game by Curry and Klay last year was surprising, all due to their spacing. Even Durant shot a lot of open threes. Now altogether, it's a nightmare. Their Locke Offensive Ratings as a team, which measures how well a player uses an individual possession compared to average, was historic this past season. With Durant it could be an extinction level event.

This plays exactly into what I was talking about. It doesn't make sense. You don't get to add efficiencies together like that. You certainly don't get to bump them all up. They are playing together, sharing one ball against one defensive scheme. They have two MVPs on their team, and neither player has ever shied away from tough shots. They're not going to stop now. Think Durant is going to come in and dominate as a spot-up guy is hilarious almost. They could have saved a ton of money and just signed Morrow if that's what they wanted.


Yes, the Spurs have two defenders that could/should greatly impact Durant and Curry. What about Parker? They had two guys against OKC's big two, that didn't turn out so great.

The Spurs didn't lose the OKC because of perimeter defense. They more than did that part. They couldn't score to save their lives for the most part. And now that's fixed, and hopefully it gets more than fixed if Parker can figure out how to contribute. And Tony on Thompson is more than fine. If GS goes away from the spot-up shooting you fear so much to post up guards, that's completely fine with me.


They might be the biggest favorites in NBA history by the time the season starts.

...

Otherwise the Spurs will be major, major, major underdogs barring some sort of Bertans/Murray/x-factor revelation. I would bet on Bertans if I wasn't so suspicious of Pop and how he treats rookies.

This is whatever. I don't have an issue with it. But teams aren't in denial for not giving up. Even Vegas is giving the Warriors about a 30-percent chance to win it all. How on Earth is taking the field irrational?

[RD2191]

Wasn't Timmy like 37 when the Spurs beat the Heat? Spurs should be fine.

[peacemaker885]

How can you motivate a team knowing you will loose? Hard to be a coach.

[ceperez]

Despite how big a mismatch it appears on paper, you still have to play the game.

Look, the Spurs without a star beat the super team Heat. In fact, they could have done it twice!

Cavs were down 3-1 against the Dubs and still won. In fact, Cavs took the Dubs to game 6 on just James as the star.

The silver lining in all this is that the Spurs really need to worry about just one team in the West. Every other team isn't competitive.

[Keepin' it real]

Parker simply cannot play against GSW's starters. Spurs are going to have to start Ginobili. Hopefully his body can handle it.

So you're saying you want Parker on Livingston?

[Keepin' it real]

The Warriors will not make the NBA finals next season. Book it.

[objective]

This plays exactly into what I was talking about. It doesn't make sense. You don't get to add efficiencies together like that. You certainly don't get to bump them all up. They are playing together, sharing one ball against one defensive scheme. They have two MVPs on their team, and neither player has ever shied away from tough shots. They're not going to stop now. Think Durant is going to come in and dominate as a spot-up guy is hilarious almost. They could have saved a ton of money and just signed Morrow if that's what they wanted.

I'll address the rest later. But even if you ignore everything else Durant brings to the table (he was only an mvp) ...

You DO get to add up efficiency like that! You add up possessions, that's what a game consists of. Have you seen the Locke Offensive Rating? Do you understand what it conveys with possession usage and points produced? It's not the ultimate advanced stat, after all it's only offense, but it starkly reveals how players and teams use possessions. It is remarkably illustrative and predictive even. It demonstrates early on in the season the why of Golden State's hot start: the individual players and the number of possessions that added up to a game, the Warriors produced so much more than other teams using the same number of possessions. Now they are adding a player who greatly outpaces the outgoing player, and his likely additional possessions will fall under his greater efficiency also.

And I only address Durant as taking the Barnes shots to take the obvious to absurdity in making a point. Even if that was ALL Durant would do, they are a better team for it. Because it's so easy to dismiss Durant seemingly as just another guy who has touch the single ball, I boil it down to that base level and the Warriors still come out on top

[Chinook]

You DO get to add up efficiency like that! You add up possessions, that's what a game consists of. Have you seen the Locke Offensive Rating? Do you understand what it conveys with possession usage and points produced? It's not the ultimate advanced stat, after all it's only offense, but it starkly reveals how players and teams use possessions. It is remarkably illustrative and predictive even. It demonstrates early on in the season the why of Golden State's hot start: the individual players and the number of possessions that added up to a game, the Warriors produced so much more than other teams using the same number of possessions. Now they are adding a player who greatly outpaces the outgoing player, and his likely additional possessions will fall under his greater efficiency also.

The reason why you can't add up possessions like that is because they aren't IID variables. Humans are not coins. Yes, those guys individually have high ratings, but together is a different story. How will a passive Durant score? Or how will a Curry that has to be mindful of Durant score? How will Thompson who's the third or fourth option stay in rhythm? It's like you're on two different extremes right. On one hand, you are talking about it in the most superficial way possible (How can you stop all those players?) On the other hand, you're reducing them to data.

It's neither of those things. It's not about players, and it's not about sterilized stats. It's about buckets. It's about how to get as many buckets as you can and how to keep your opponent from getting them. OKC adding Durant helps them get buckets, but again only marginally. Because Durant isn't just taking Barnes' touches. He's taking Steph's and Klay's, too. And those were already efficient, so they don't count. What he's doing is dumping a 38-percent shooter's percentage up by one. Even if it's up by five, that still makes very little difference in the context of a game.

To get that marginal increase, they've sacrificed their best rim-protectors and rebounders. So opponent efficiency should increase as well. And they're second-chance points should as well. Which one is really bigger? I guess we're disagreeing there. But that is just general talk. The Spurs should be much better at getting buckets this year with a superior offensive player at the five and an improved 5-10. So they could see an even bigger increase in efficiency than the average team. And if they force the Warriors into becoming the KD Show, they have plenty of experience with that.


And I only address Durant as taking the Barnes shots to take the obvious to absurdity in making a point.

Nah. You're addressing it this way because that's how your data addresses it. The more credit you give to Durant, the more he affects the other Warriors. And not all of those effects are going to be positive for their production or efficiency, especially in the first season.

[NameLess Scrub]

Nice discussion going on here.

[objective]

The reason why you can't add up possessions like that is because they aren't IID variables. Humans are not coins. Yes, those guys individually have high ratings, but together is a different story. How will a passive Durant score? Or how will a Curry that has to be mindful of Durant score? How will Thompson who's the third or fourth option stay in rhythm? It's like you're on two different extremes right. On one hand, you are talking about it in the most superficial way possible (How can you stop all those players?) On the other hand, you're reducing them to data.

It's neither of those things. It's not about players, and it's not about sterilized stats. It's about buckets. It's about how to get as many buckets as you can and how to keep your opponent from getting them. OKC adding Durant helps them get buckets, but again only marginally. Because Durant isn't just taking Barnes' touches. He's taking Steph's and Klay's, too. And those were already efficient, so they don't count. What he's doing is dumping a 38-percent shooter's percentage up by one. Even if it's up by five, that still makes very little difference in the context of a game.

To get that marginal increase, they've sacrificed their best rim-protectors and rebounders. So opponent efficiency should increase as well. And they're second-chance points should as well. Which one is really bigger? I guess we're disagreeing there. But that is just general talk. The Spurs should be much better at getting buckets this year with a superior offensive player at the five and an improved 5-10. So they could see an even bigger increase in efficiency than the average team. And if they force the Warriors into becoming the KD Show, they have plenty of experience with that.



Nah. You're addressing it this way because that's how your data addresses it. The more credit you give to Durant, the more he affects the other Warriors. And not all of those effects are going to be positive for their production or efficiency, especially in the first season.

First, I apologize for confusing Locke's Offensive Rating with Locke's POINTS ABOVE AVERAGE CREATED aka PAAC. It measures the use of possessions. I was tired and messed up, my mistake.

Read about it here: http://weareutahjazz.com/lockedonjazz/2015/03/03/stat-check-an-introduction-of-paac/

And for further illumination there's a bunch of podcasts to try. That link, while old and about the 14-15 season, gives the basics.

I believe Kawhi ended the year as number three in the league, fwiw. The point is, the possessions taken by Durant will improve upon the points created previously by those possessions.

[MaNu4Tres]

The reason why you can't add up possessions like that is because they aren't IID variables. Humans are not coins. Yes, those guys individually have high ratings, but together is a different story. How will a passive Durant score? Or how will a Curry that has to be mindful of Durant score? How will Thompson who's the third or fourth option stay in rhythm? It's like you're on two different extremes right. On one hand, you are talking about it in the most superficial way possible (How can you stop all those players?) On the other hand, you're reducing them to data.

It's neither of those things. It's not about players, and it's not about sterilized stats. It's about buckets. It's about how to get as many buckets as you can and how to keep your opponent from getting them. OKC adding Durant helps them get buckets, but again only marginally. Because Durant isn't just taking Barnes' touches. He's taking Steph's and Klay's, too. And those were already efficient, so they don't count. What he's doing is dumping a 38-percent shooter's percentage up by one. Even if it's up by five, that still makes very little difference in the context of a game.

To get that marginal increase, they've sacrificed their best rim-protectors and rebounders. So opponent efficiency should increase as well. And they're second-chance points should as well. Which one is really bigger? I guess we're disagreeing there. But that is just general talk. The Spurs should be much better at getting buckets this year with a superior offensive player at the five and an improved 5-10. So they could see an even bigger increase in efficiency than the average team. And if they force the Warriors into becoming the KD Show, they have plenty of experience with that.



Nah. You're addressing it this way because that's how your data addresses it. The more credit you give to Durant, the more he affects the other Warriors. And not all of those effects are going to be positive for their production or efficiency, especially in the first season.

Awesome, awesome post.

I agree with all of this. It's sad that less than 10% of "experts" on NBA Twitter, ESPN ect.. are unable to think about the game this way.

Chinook, I apologize for my half way trolling debates & rude comments. Please accept my apology.

[Mr. Body]

The reason why you can't add up possessions like that is because they aren't IID variables. Humans are not coins. Yes, those guys individually have high ratings, but together is a different story. How will a passive Durant score? Or how will a Curry that has to be mindful of Durant score? How will Thompson who's the third or fourth option stay in rhythm? It's like you're on two different extremes right. On one hand, you are talking about it in the most superficial way possible (How can you stop all those players?) On the other hand, you're reducing them to data.

It's neither of those things. It's not about players, and it's not about sterilized stats. It's about buckets. It's about how to get as many buckets as you can and how to keep your opponent from getting them. OKC adding Durant helps them get buckets, but again only marginally. Because Durant isn't just taking Barnes' touches. He's taking Steph's and Klay's, too. And those were already efficient, so they don't count. What he's doing is dumping a 38-percent shooter's percentage up by one. Even if it's up by five, that still makes very little difference in the context of a game.

To get that marginal increase, they've sacrificed their best rim-protectors and rebounders. So opponent efficiency should increase as well. And they're second-chance points should as well. Which one is really bigger? I guess we're disagreeing there. But that is just general talk. The Spurs should be much better at getting buckets this year with a superior offensive player at the five and an improved 5-10. So they could see an even bigger increase in efficiency than the average team. And if they force the Warriors into becoming the KD Show, they have plenty of experience with that.



Nah. You're addressing it this way because that's how your data addresses it. The more credit you give to Durant, the more he affects the other Warriors. And not all of those effects are going to be positive for their production or efficiency, especially in the first season.

I personally agree and see everything above. Durant is spectacular, but he's spectacular at what the Warriors are already spectacular at. Obviously the right move was to pick him up, but both Curry and Thompson will suffer due to his presence, if the team itself does not (or does). I don't think Curry will be impacted much; he'll still have the ball most of the time and will get to jack any shot he wants. The guy who will be squeezed out is Klay Thompson.

Everyone's saying he will simply replace Barnes and those shots Barnes failed to make he will. Fine. But not forever. Because he'll be a very, very expensive spot up shooter. (Note, they probably weren't going to sign Barnes to a max, regardless of whether they got Durant.) The odd man out will be Thompson, because he won't be worth it. Instead they'll trade him for parts that make better sense -- a cheaper defensive wing, size, etc. Hell, someone who can actually guard LeBron.

This won't happen this year. They'll probably ring this year, but whatever -- next summer they'll recognize they don't want most of their cap to get sucked up by Curry-Durant-Thompson when they are no longer getting the right kind of value out of one of them.

The question is when Thompson realizes this. He's a bright guy. At some point it will dawn on him.

[BillMc]

I personally agree and see everything above. Durant is spectacular, but he's spectacular at what the Warriors are already spectacular at. Obviously the right move was to pick him up, but both Curry and Thompson will suffer due to his presence, if the team itself does not (or does). I don't think Curry will be impacted much; he'll still have the ball most of the time and will get to jack any shot he wants. The guy who will be squeezed out is Klay Thompson.

Everyone's saying he will simply replace Barnes and those shots Barnes failed to make he will. Fine. But not forever. Because he'll be a very, very expensive spot up shooter. (Note, they probably weren't going to sign Barnes to a max, regardless of whether they got Durant.) The odd man out will be Thompson, because he won't be worth it. Instead they'll trade him for parts that make better sense -- a cheaper defensive wing, size, etc. Hell, someone who can actually guard LeBron.

This won't happen this year. They'll probably ring this year, but whatever -- next summer they'll recognize they don't want most of their cap to get sucked up by Curry-Durant-Thompson when they are no longer getting the right kind of value out of one of them.

The question is when Thompson realizes this. He's a bright guy. At some point it will dawn on him.

Good post.

Every Big 3 in recent memory (Heatles / Cavs) had someone whose attempts get reduced. (Bosh, Love in these examples). It's one of the reasons back in their primes Manu played more and more with the bench until he became a bench player. Because Timmy and Tony were going to take a lot of the shots. Someone is always out, though few have the character that Manu did by going to the bench for the good of the team when he was an All-Star type talent.

As you say Klay will be the one who likely suffers. If they eventually get rid of Iggy after next season, Klay may stay but his "time" will also likely be when one of Durant and Curry are off the court.

What the acquistion of Durant does do is give them a 3rd elite scorer which is one more than they had and helpful if there are any injuries to Klay or Curry. Durant also can put the ball on the floor much better than I recall Barnes doing.

So I agree Iggy or Klay will have to go, but I think it will be Iggy (the older player) and Klay will likely stay in a changed role.

[TD 21]

Some good points, but . . .

Rebounding - This only matters in two match-ups: Whichever of the Spurs/Clippers they get in the WCF and the Cavaliers, in the Finals, since those are the only teams good enough to potentially give them somewhat of a series.

Since the Spurs depth has been decimated and they'll be top heavy, the Warriors will likely lean as heavily on small ball as possible, in an attempt to get the Spurs to split up Aldridge-Gasol and limit Gasol's minutes period. Once Pop inevitably kowtows to this, the whole "destroy them in the post and on the glass" notion is out the window.

Offense - Sure, theirs can't get much more efficient, but until the perfect storm hit in the Finals, there was only 1 team capable of beating them in a series (Thunder) and obviously they're no longer capable.

The Spurs figure to be top heavy and 3 of the top 6 will be another year older and coming off of playing in the Olympics; any year could be the year they fall off a cliff. Given the likelihood of a lack of known quantities, no one can say with any certainty that the bench will be improved.

"The KD show" was a part of the Thuner beating the Spurs twice and the one series they lost, arguably the biggest Spurs terrorist in the league missed the first two games.

[Mr. Body]

Good post.

Every Big 3 in recent memory (Heatles / Cavs) had someone whose attempts get reduced. (Bosh, Love in these examples). It's one of the reasons back in their primes Manu played more and more with the bench until he became a bench player. Because Timmy and Tony were going to take a lot of the shots. Someone is always out, though few have the character that Manu did by going to the bench for the good of the team when he was an All-Star type talent.

As you say Klay will be the one who likely suffers. If they eventually get rid of Iggy after next season, Klay may stay but his "time" will also likely be when one of Durant and Curry are off the court.

What the acquistion of Durant does do is give them a 3rd elite scorer which is one more than they had and helpful if there are any injuries to Klay or Curry. Durant also can put the ball on the floor much better than I recall Barnes doing.

So I agree Iggy or Klay will have to go, but I think it will be Iggy (the older player) and Klay will likely stay in a changed role.

Iggy will go because he's old, but the difference between Thompson and Manu is that Ginobili always took below market for his value. At least he never commanded max, as Thompson does and will. Does it make sense to pay essentially a back up/role player/bench guy max money? I hope they think so, but believe they'll be smart enough to ship him in a year or so.

[Mr. Body]

Some good points, but . . .

Rebounding - This only matters in two match-ups: Whichever of the Spurs/Clippers they get in the WCF and the Cavaliers, in the Finals, since those are the only teams good enough to potentially give them somewhat of a series.

Since the Spurs depth has been decimated and they'll be top heavy, the Warriors will likely lean as heavily on small ball as possible, in an attempt to get the Spurs to split up Aldridge-Gasol and limit Gasol's minutes period. Once Pop inevitably kowtows to this, the whole "destroy them in the post and on the glass" notion is out the window.

Offense - Sure, theirs can't get much more efficient, but until the perfect storm hit in the Finals, there was only 1 team capable of beating them in a series (Thunder) and obviously they're no longer capable.

The Spurs figure to be top heavy and 3 of the top 6 will be another year older and coming off of playing in the Olympics; any year could be the year they fall off a cliff. Given the likelihood of a lack of known quantities, no one can say with any certainty that the bench will be improved.

"The KD show" was a part of the Thuner beating the Spurs twice and the one series they lost, arguably the biggest Spurs terrorist in the league missed the first two games.

I don't see the Finals as a perfect storm. It was LeBron James figuring them out. The Warriors remain just as vulnerable to him as they were then. Real question is whether the Dubs win in 2015 if all the Cavs are healthy and the King doesn't run out of gas.

[TD 21]

I don't see the Finals as a perfect storm. It was LeBron James figuring them out. The Warriors remain just as vulnerable to him as they were then. Real question is whether the Dubs win in 2015 if all the Cavs are healthy and the King doesn't run out of gas.

It was partially James playing out of his mind, but it was also Curry clearly not being 100%; Bogut being injured and not playing in the Final three games; Green being suspended for game 5; and Iguodala hurting his back and not being 100% in the last game and a half.

I think the Thunder win in '15 had injuries not derailed them.

[Nathan89]

Cavs are the only team with a chance this year but that's only if they trade Love for some roster upgrades. Spurs might have a chance next year if they get a star pg like Cp3.

That being said big men often end up switching on Barnes who can't do anything. I expect different results from Durant. Switching just became that much more difficult.

[objective]

Fortunately we'll get to see if Durant is a non-factor replacement player who won't matter because there's only one ball. Or if his arrival makes the Warriors unbeatable.

We'll be able to measure the results.

I was of the school of thought before free agency that the Spurs were incredibly close as contenders, hurt by poor performances by most and very, very poor coaching. But very fixable. Durant to GS however changed the landscape.

Pau most likely is a big improvement on Duncan's scoring, but not any better at switching on defense or around the rim. There's already the problem, huge problem, of Parker on defense. Utah is a lot better equipped to defend GS than San Antonio even without a Kawhi. A big who is an elite at the rim and everywhere else. Big guards with length who can switch. Spurs don't have that and have overcome a lot while hoping Pop decides to give heavy minutes to the best players, and doesn't Splitter players who can help.

Big time underdogs.

[DPG21920]

To me the argument for KD to GS is margin for error. They have such a gigantic gulf compared to other teams. While in a bubble, Chinook makes good points about the overarching theme of how KD fits, to me? It's about margin for error.

It's not about taking touches from Curry or Klay. It's about WHEN he takes touches from them. In games where Klay wasn't shooting well, GS might rely on Curry to score 40 or Green to score 20. Now? If Klay is cold? He simply gives way to a hotter Durant.

Game-to-game, GS now has margin for error that no one in the league comes close to.

[objective]

Go here and listen to Episode 36 with Kevin Pelton:

https://audioboom.com/channel/lockedonnba

You can skip to 13:30 if you want, skipping a little Zaza and a lot of Portland talk. That will also skip a badly edited clothing commercial.

Basically, the math makes the dismissing people look like climate change deniers, maybe even like flat earthers.

Pelton's conservative projections last year had the Warriors at 60 wins. The projections are always more conservative, I don't remember anyone having the Spurs so high as they did.

This year? With Zaza, and without West included, just replacement player numbers?

69 wins projected.

Pelton speculated that adding West in the formula might crack 70.

Just give it a listen and maybe pick up something about possession use.

[Dex]

To me the argument for KD to GS is margin for error. They have such a gigantic gulf compared to other teams. While in a bubble, Chinook makes good points about the overarching theme of how KD fits, to me? It's about margin for error.

It's not about taking touches from Curry or Klay. It's about WHEN he takes touches from them. In games where Klay wasn't shooting well, GS might rely on Curry to score 40 or Green to score 20. Now? If Klay is cold? He simply gives way to a hotter Durant.

Game-to-game, GS now has margin for error that no one in the league comes close to.

Well put.

Back in the days of our Big 3...we usually only needed one or two of them to be hot to win most games, at least in the regular season. It was okay if Tim was having an off game, because Tony and Manu usually would pick up the slack. Interject the names as you see fit.

Warriors now have the same benefit on steroids. To have an easy game against them, you have to hope for 2-3 of Curry, Durant, Thompson, AND/OR Green to have an off-night. Otherwise, you are in for a dogfight or a blowout. More often than not though...AT LEAST two of those guys will be clicking.

Gonna be an interesting season.

[objective]

Even Vegas is giving the Warriors about a 30-percent chance to win it all. How on Earth is taking the field irrational?

Uh, the odds I found are 4/5 to win the title. Isn't that 55.5% probability? Field doesn't look so good in that case.

[Kikoluna]

They will win 74

[spurs10]

The Warriors will not make the NBA finals next season. Book it. That would be absolute poetic justice! It's definitely what I'm pulling for!!

[Chinook]

Basically, the math makes the dismissing people look like climate change deniers, maybe even like flat earthers.

This is arrogant as much it's absurd. There is no "math" to this. Not in the sense that is there is math about the Earth or the climate. Those are talking about how the Earth is, not how it will be given the changes. Stats don't have predictive power; that's one of the fundamental truths of statistics. Predictive probability is always a load of bullshit. The Warriors are favorites. I understand and accept that. But there is no math that can offer proof as to why Durant makes them unbeatable. Anyone who tells you so is lying or doesn't actually understand what the math they do says.


Pelton's conservative projections last year had the Warriors at 60 wins. The projections are always more conservative, I don't remember anyone having the Spurs so high as they did.

:lol this is ridiculous. If Pelton predicted the Warriors would win 60 games, and they won 73, then his model is shit. That's a 22-percent error. There isn't a viable model on Earth that will survive being that off. And of course, you can talk about all the unexpected things that happened that increased the win total. But a model doesn't get that benefit. If the weather models predict a bright sunny day, and we get a heatwave, no one over there is going to be patting themselves on the back.

I'll give you this, though: It certainly makes me feel better about the Murray selection to read that Pelton's models are that poor. Shit, I'm predicting the Spurs are going to win one game this year. Pretty sure I'll be proven a genius.

[objective]

If they're healthy we'll see how dominant they are.

Vegas has them at greater than 50% probability. I like those odds.

[Chinook]

If they're healthy we'll see how dominant they are.

Vegas has them at greater than 50% probability. I like those odds.

It'll only matter in the post-season. The Spurs have to do their parts to get to the WCF, as will Cleveland to get to the Finals. I have no doubt GS will be a regular-season juggernaut.

[Mr. Body]

It was partially James playing out of his mind, but it was also Curry clearly not being 100%; Bogut being injured and not playing in the Final three games; Green being suspended for game 5; and Iguodala hurting his back and not being 100% in the last game and a half.

I think the Thunder win in '15 had injuries not derailed them.

Curry was healthy, just not as good as usual. He drops off during big series in general. The rest is a wash.

[Obstructed_View]

Curry was healthy, just not as good as usual. He drops off during big series in general. The rest is a wash.

Yep. In addition, jump shooting teams usually don't dominate in the playoffs.

[ceperez]

It'll only matter in the post-season. The Spurs have to do their parts to get to the WCF, as will Cleveland to get to the Finals. I have no doubt GS will be a regular-season juggernaut.

I'm not too sure if they will have a better regular season than last year. That's because they have a depleted bench, requiring their starters to log more minutes.

Spurs had a 67 win regular season and it was because of their deep bench.

[Seventyniner]

I'm not too sure if they will have a better regular season than last year. That's because they have a depleted bench, requiring their starters to log more minutes.

Spurs had a 67 win regular season and it was because of their deep bench.

Yes, the Spurs are more top-heavy this season than last. 67 wins is also very hard to top. But 58 wins likely is good enough for 2nd in the West.

[TD 21]

Curry was healthy, just not as good as usual. He drops off during big series in general. The rest is a wash.

He clearly wasn't and the rest isn't "a wash": It took the stars aligning for them to pull it off.

[Mr. Body]

He clearly wasn't and the rest isn't "a wash": It took the stars aligning for them to pull it off.

Curry's production in the Finals was in line with his playoff production generally. The rest was a wash because once LeBron figured them out it didn't matter which role players they were missing. If they started that series right now, same rosters, Warriors might win one or two games. Warriors were fortunate to even be in it at the end.

[emanueldavidginobili]

So who are the Dubs going to have for the bench besides Livingston, they already lost Barbosa, Rush and Festus is probably going to go too.

[tonight...you]

So who are the Dubs going to have for the bench besides Livingston, they already lost Barbosa, Rush and Festus is probably going to go too.
David effing West baby. KaBOOM!

[Stabula]

David effing West baby. KaBOOM!

Hand banana no!

[tonight...you]

Hand banana no!
I'ma call you Spaghetti, now rape him!
Yeah, I'm not really into him, but you... you.

[spurtech09]

I'ma call you Spaghetti, now rape him!
Yeah, I'm not really into him, but you... you.
ooooooook?:(

[tonight...you]

ooooooook?:(
Hey uhh.... I couldn't help, but notice you basting a turkey there...

Lol... it's from a show, bud.

[DPG21920]

GS Starters: Curry / Klay / Durant / Draymond / Zaza

GS Bench: Livingston / Iggy / David West / Looney / Patrick McCaw / Damian Jones

I'm really interested to see how McCaw does. Not expecting a ton this year, but I liked him.

[SpursBig3s]

in for later

[Tully365]

Good discussion...

[ezau]

To me the argument for KD to GS is margin for error. They have such a gigantic gulf compared to other teams. While in a bubble, Chinook makes good points about the overarching theme of how KD fits, to me? It's about margin for error.

It's not about taking touches from Curry or Klay. It's about WHEN he takes touches from them. In games where Klay wasn't shooting well, GS might rely on Curry to score 40 or Green to score 20. Now? If Klay is cold? He simply gives way to a hotter Durant.

Game-to-game, GS now has margin for error that no one in the league comes close to.

TBH

[TheGreatYacht]

Gained: Kevin Durdelta & David Worst

Lost: Andrew Bogut, Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli, Leandro Barbosa, Marreese Speights

[Tully365]

I think some people are trying to pigeonhole Durant as merely a scorer, which simply isn't true. The guy averaged more rebounds, assists, and blocks per game than Kawhi did last year. He's not one dimensional by any stretch of the imagination. Still, the "only-one-ball" theory does carry weight for me. Since his sophomore year in the league, Durant has never scored fewer than 25 ppg-- there will a period of adjustment, no doubt. But I think he'll surprise some skeptics with really buying into the team concept and putting winning ahead of shots or stats. He's played the nice diplomat all these years dealing with Westbrook, and I think he'll finally feel completely at ease having better teammates.

[spursreport]

I think some people are trying to pigeonhole Durant as merely a scorer, which simply isn't true. The guy averaged more rebounds, assists, and blocks per game than Kawhi did last year. He's not one dimensional by any stretch of the imagination. Still, the "only-one-ball" theory does carry weight for me. Since his sophomore year in the league, Durant has never scored fewer than 25 ppg-- there will a period of adjustment, no doubt. But I think he'll surprise some skeptics with really buying into the team concept and putting winning ahead of shots or stats. He's played the nice diplomat all these years dealing with Westbrook, and I think he'll finally feel completely at ease having better teammates.

He is the Peyton Manning of the NBA. He will choke when it matters. He is soft when it matters. He implodes when it matters. Same with Curry. Same with Thompson. The Warriors title was won by beating backups. They already had a Peyton Manning on their team. Now they just added another Manning. 2 players who win mvps, who put up nice stats, who will put all this false hope out there, but will fold when the chips are down. Iggy/Green ain't going to be carrying them to a title this time coupled in with a Kyrie injury. They won't get to rely on a defense either like Peyton Manning did both times. These Peyton Manning's actually have to overcome actual high pressure situations themselves which is something NEITHER have yet to prove. The Warriors will win lots of games, score lots of points and break all sorts of records and win an mvp, and a dumbfuck faggot like yourself will be eating their jizz right up like people did with those Colts/Broncos, but will look stupid as fuck when they fail in the postseason.

[Tully365]

He is the Peyton Manning of the NBA. He will choke when it matters. He is soft when it matters. He implodes when it matters. Same with Curry. Same with Thompson. The Warriors title was won by beating backups. They already had a Peyton Manning on their team. Now they just added another Manning. 2 players who win mvps, who put up nice stats, who will put all this false hope out there, but will fold when the chips are down. Iggy/Green ain't going to be carrying them to a title this time coupled in with a Kyrie injury. They won't get to rely on a defense either like Peyton Manning did both times. These Peyton Manning's actually have to overcome actual high pressure situations themselves which is something NEITHER have yet to prove. The Warriors will win lots of games, score lots of points and break all sorts of records and win an mvp, and a dumbfuck faggot like yourself will be eating their jizz right up like people did with those Colts/Broncos, but will look stupid as fuck when they fail in the postseason.

You make some excellent points. You should show your post to your mommy to show how smart and mature you are.

[SAGirl]

Probably the thing that will hold the team back is precisely something that they needed to do anyways. The team was forced to get a lot younger. They needed to do that anyways, but it happened all at once and some of these youngsters are very, very young. They are now going to have to rely on a much younger group and until they "come of age" in their games maybe they can't dismantle a juggernaut like GSW. Realistically one or two of the younger guys added to the rotation will have to make a difference.

[50Bestspurever]

ha ha, two years ago the Dubs lucked into a ship. last year they wouldn't have been there unless a complete a choke job by the thunder. the jump shot bullshit doesn't work. if it did it would have been copied years ago. i would've been more scared of the Dubs if they would've landed Gasol. thank god we got him. Cant wait for next year. its gonna be so satisfying.

[cutewizard]

Trade Parker for Westbrook now,

do it FO

[james evans]

I hope he ends up in golden state. Their interior defense is already bad. Adding west makes it the worst


there is only 1 ball. How long have you guys been watching basketball? It's not as simple as, "add player here and add his shots". If KD is willing to decrease his shots and iso moments, it can work, but I don't see it. That means Thompson is bumped to a 3rd option. They're gonna be dangerous, but I'd be more concerned if GS had gotten Whiteside. That is what I was most concerned about. Adding KD did not solve their interiour defense, which sucked without Bogut last year. Defense still wins championships. Curry, Thompson, and Barnes were all locked down in game 7. I'm really not concerned about KD going to the warriors. The only thing I'm concerened with is if Popovich will allow Parker to run crazy on offense fucking us us in the 4th. We've got to stop them from scoring and they've got to stop us as well.


The "there's only one ball" shit is so played out as an argument with superteams, especially this one, which is the greatest NBA superteam on paper of all time. Yes, of course there's only one fucking ball but that goes for every team in the league. At any given moment, the Dubs will have a player with the ball that will know what to do with it while there will be moments we'll have unproven guys like Bertans and Murray with that one ball. I'd much favor the Dubs chances in that "one ball" theory.

[Spurs9]

Any shots that get taken away from Klay and Curry is a good thing

[r0drig0lac]

starting Kyle as SG /green

[james evans]

Klay was pissed last night. He went about 2 minutes or so without even touching the ball and no one looking for him. So when he would get the ball, he'd shoot that thing immediately haha. Plus he was having to guard Kawhi. He can't be happy over that shit. He just can't be

[SAGirl]

james evans on fire.

[SAGirl]

Klay was pissed last night. He went about 2 minutes or so without even touching the ball and no one looking for him. So when he would get the ball, he'd shoot that thing immediately haha. Plus he was having to guard Kawhi. He can't be happy over that shit. He just can't beGood points. You are on fire today man.
:toast
http://orig02.deviantart.net/38ee/f/2008/219/2/f/fire_hand_by_sakuaharioto.jpg

[james evans]

james evans (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=19594) on fire.
Nah, these fake ass fans here just basically handed GS the championship when they signed KD. No one thought about anything. No one considered that they got rid of 6 role players willing to do the dirty work and added KD, Zaza and David West's sorry ass. Everyone here just feels life is like a video game and you can just add 1 player and he can score all the points.

[Mr. Body]

Klay was pissed last night. He went about 2 minutes or so without even touching the ball and no one looking for him. So when he would get the ball, he'd shoot that thing immediately haha. Plus he was having to guard Kawhi. He can't be happy over that shit. He just can't be

I said that it would slowly dawn on Thompson how he would eventually be shown the door (cost/benefit reasons) and that Durant would be getting all his touches and this would damage the locker room. Maybe it's already starting to happen.

[xellos88330]

GSW has been exposed. I am talking their nudes were just leaked on the internet and everyone is laughing because they all have clit dicks.

[james evans]

bump

[TampaDude]

Dubs got exposed again.

[gambit1990]

Change the game plan. Put the ball back in Parker's hands. In the last 4 years, we're undefeated in the playoffs when Parker leads the team in scoring. And practically the opposite is true when the ball is in someone else's hands.

:lmao

damn, i'm starting to be convinced that SASdynasty! is tony parker.
:lol

[Splits]

GSW has been exposed. I am talking their nudes were just leaked on the internet and everyone is laughing because they all have clit dicks.

:lol

[objective]

interesting discussion.

[Big Empty]

Yep. The team we have can beat anyone in the league. This team will win 60 games again next year too if we can keep them together. But Gasol and Aldridge are almost useless against the Warriors. Pau more so than Aldridge. I know people think they are unbeatable in a 7 game series but i dont believe that if u put together a team that can match up better. Obviously with little cap room that wont be possible unless we can unload both Gasol and Aldridge via trade. If you were to put kawhi on the Rockets, the Rockets would beat the Warriors or atleast take them to 7 games. We need shooters. 3 point shooters to beat the Warriors. Simmons and Greens D are almost useless when the Warriors are still scoring 125 a game. If you can keep it close with ur own 3 point threat the Warriors will fold. Just like the Rockets did. We need our own death squad of 3 point shooters.Warriors are gonna have this core together the next 3-4 years. Thats who we need to be built to beat

[cd98]

Warriors have 2 of the top 6 players in the league in their primes. That's tough to beat.

[$pursDynasty]

Warriors have 2 of the top 6 players in the league in their primes. That's tough to beat.

So did the Thunder. The Spurs need someone to assume the primary scorer position, allowing the KingSlayer to be the secondary scorer and primary defender, LMA would be ok as the third option. However it would take a LBJ, CP3, or more realistically a Boogie level player to be the primary scorer on a team with Kiwi on the roster.

[ace3g]

Kawhi - check
Keep Zaza away from Kawhi...
PF-C that can post up and pass

That's it

[HarlemHeat37]

Nah, these fake ass fans here just basically handed GS the championship when they signed KD. No one thought about anything. No one considered that they got rid of 6 role players willing to do the dirty work and added KD, Zaza and David West's sorry ass. Everyone here just feels life is like a video game and you can just add 1 player and he can score all the points.

:lol OMG..

We handed them the title because it's common sense..a 73-win team adds a top 20 player of all-time in his prime and doesn't lose a single relevant player:lol Tyronn Lue just called them the best team he's ever seen, and that nigga played for the 15-1 Lakers..there's a reason many people want to change the rules, right now, it's unfair..

[TD 21]

All true, but I do think the way their competition has fawned over them, particularly before and during series', has been disgusting. This from a league where it's usually blasphemous to even admit someone played good defense, yet they all sound defeatist and act like they're the best team they've ever seen.

This is where I miss not only Duncan, but even Garnett and Bryant, because they'd have never pulled that shit.

[HarlemHeat37]

All true, but I do think the way their competition has fawned over them, particularly before and during series', has been disgusting. This from a league where it's usually blasphemous to even admit someone played good defense, yet they all sound defeatist and act like they're the best team they've ever seen.

This is where I miss not only Duncan, but even Garnett and Bryant, because they'd have never pulled that shit.

Pop has done the same thing, tbh, I agree..I don't remember if he did the same with the Lakers, but nothing makes him happier nowadays than praising the Warriors:lol

LeBron went at it differently, at least..he was asked if they were the best team he's ever went against, and he named all the other great teams that opposed him, rather than just giving it to GS..

[cd98]

So did the Thunder. The Spurs need someone to assume the primary scorer position, allowing the KingSlayer to be the secondary scorer and primary defender, LMA would be ok as the third option. However it would take a LBJ, CP3, or more realistically a Boogie level player to be the primary scorer on a team with Kiwi on the roster.

Yes and the Thunder beat us. Tough to beat. And the Thunder only had two offensive threats. You have to guard all 5 Warriors on the court. Tough to do.

[HarlemHeat37]

Yes and the Thunder beat us. Tough to beat. And the Thunder only had two offensive threats. You have to guard all 5 Warriors on the court. Tough to do.

Not to mention Westbrook can often beat himself, while Curry is a historically unique matchup problem (even if he isn't shooting well, he draws off-ball attention at a rate that has never been seen)..

[dabom]

:lol OMG..

We handed them the title because it's common sense..a 73-win team adds a top 20 player of all-time in his prime and doesn't lose a single relevant player:lol Tyronn Lue just called them the best team he's ever seen, and that nigga played for the 15-1 Lakers..there's a reason many people want to change the rules, right now, it's unfair..

Spurs didn't lose to the warriors on talent. We actually were owning them. :lol

[cd98]

Spurs didn't lose to the warriors on talent. We actually were owning them. :lol

Warriors were shaking off rust. They would've beat the Spurs, just not in a sweep. How many times did the Spurs lose game 1 to an inferior team only to come back and take care of business? Plenty. I still think we played them the best with Kawhi, but they had over a week of rust to shake and Curry was heating up in the 2nd half of Game 1.

[dabom]

Warriors were shaking off rust. They would've beat the Spurs, just not in a sweep. How many times did the Spurs lose game 1 to an inferior team only to come back and take care of business? Plenty. I still think we played them the best with Kawhi, but they had over a week of rust to shake and Curry was heating up in the 2nd half of Game 1.

That wasn't rust faggot. Thats a truth of life. They were well rested and they got their shit pushed. Stop being a cuck sucking faggot. :lmao