What does the team look like?

[kxs783kms]

Can anybody tell me what our team looks like right now because I'm lost with everything that's been going on. Is Duncan and Boban still part of the team as of right now? How about Bertans, is he definitely on the squad this coming season? And also, I thought I read somewhere that Livio will be signing with us but not hearing much about him and don't see him on the Toro's in the summer league. Also how much money are we sitting at right now with everything that's going on?

[Luxic]

Duncan is on the books for $6.4M, but in spite of that, he's most likely not coming back (still not 100% official, but like 99%). Boban is a restricted free agent (meaning we have the ability to match any offer he may get, as long as we have enough cap space or a large enough exception), so while there's mutual interest in re-signing, if he were to get a too big of an offer by someone else, we might have no choice but let him go. Bertans and LJC are still not official, but they're both rumored to be signing.

As for our salary cap situation, I'll spare you much of the maths and technical details: after the Diaw trade we'll be sitting at about $83.4M (~$74.7M salaries + cap holds for Manu, Boban, LJC and Murray), which means ~$10.7M under the cap.

So, first we'll re-sign Manu to a minimum contract (~$1M against the cap, down from his $5.4M cap hold), freeing a further $4.4M in cap space. Those ~$15.1M in cap space will all be used to sign Pau Gasol. After Pau, we'll probably sign LJC and Murray through Rookie Exceptions, sign Bertans through the Room Mid-Level Exception (~$2,9M max), and possibly re-sign Boban through a Non-Bird Exception ($1.5M max). The rest are bound to be minimum contracts (we're a talking about three to five more players, in this scenario).

[kxs783kms]

Thanks so much, you broke that down perfectly. So so far we're looking at....

On roster under contract:

C - Pau (*sign on 7th*)
PF - Aldridge
SF - Kawhi, Anderson, Bertans
SG - Green, Simmons
PG - Parker, Mills

More likely to sign/resign:

C - Boban
PF - LJC
SG - Manu
PG - Murray

More likely not to return:

PF - Duncan, Bonner

[turkish spurs fan]

good thread

[BillMc]

Duncan is on the books for $6.4M, but in spite of that, he's most likely not coming back (still not 100% official, but like 99%). Boban is a restricted free agent (meaning we have the ability to match any offer he may get, as long as we have enough cap space or a large enough exception), so while there's mutual interest in re-signing, if he were to get a too big of an offer by someone else, we might have no choice but let him go. Bertans and LJC are still not official, but they're both rumored to be signing.

As for our salary cap situation, I'll spare you much of the maths and technical details: after the Diaw trade we'll be sitting at about $83.4M (~$74.7M salaries + cap holds for Manu, Boban, LJC and Murray), which means ~$10.7M under the cap.

So, first we'll re-sign Manu to a minimum contract (~$1M against the cap, down from his $5.4M cap hold), freeing a further $4.4M in cap space. Those ~$15.1M in cap space will all be used to sign Pau Gasol. After Pau, we'll probably sign LJC and Murray through Rookie Exceptions, sign Bertans through the Room Mid-Level Exception (~$2,9M max), and possibly re-sign Boban through a Non-Bird Exception ($1.5M max). The rest are bound to be minimum contracts (we're a talking about three to five more players, in this scenario).

Nice summary. Many thanks. :toast

Not sure Manu is going to take the min, tbh.

[kxs783kms]

good thread

Just trying to figure out if we'll be able to go after other free agents. Or if we'll have the space for that matter.

[ceperez]

Just trying to figure out if we'll be able to go after other free agents. Or if we'll have the space for that matter.

There might be a couple of end of career vets that might be interested in signing for a western conference finals bound team.

[ElNono]

This site has a few different figures for cap holds:
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/cap/

Apparently, Manu's cap hold is $4.4M.. also Ryan Arcidiacono apparently was signed to a minimum deal?

[BSfromTX]

Nice summary. Many thanks. :toast

Not sure Manu is going to take the min, tbh.

This. I think for the right amount of money he will leave.

[spurtech09]

Who knows but Spurs bench is really weak right about now.....

[ceperez]

Who knows but Spurs bench is really weak right about now.....

Boban, Anderson, Bertans/Simmons, Ginobili, Mills ?

[keithington1]

We just need a big black athletic shot blocker who don't give a fuk about shit

[kxs783kms]

We just need a big black athletic shot blocker who don't give a fuk about shit

Sounds like Dedmon

[Duncan2177]

We just need a big black athletic shot blocker who don't give a fuk about shit

http://sports-kings.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/perk.jpg

[Luxic]

This site has a few different figures for cap holds:
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/cap/


Apparently, Manu's cap hold is $4.4M.. also Ryan Arcidiacono apparently was signed to a minimum deal?


As a Bird free agent, his cap hold is 190% of the previous salary: $2.8M x 190% = $5.4M. Pincus's numbers are usually more reliable than Spotrac's, and he confirms my calculations: http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/. Not that it would really matter anyway, cause we need it off the books to fit Pau's contract.


Arcidiacono might have a verbal agreement, but before July 7th both written and verbal agreements are considered negotiations and don't count agains the cap (think about the DeAndre Jordan affair from last year, when he had commited to the Mavs during the moratorium period, but then had second thoughts and went up to re-sign with the Clips).



Not sure Manu is going to take the min, tbh.

Well, the minimum for Manu is actually $1.55M (even though it would count only $980k against the cap if it were to be a one-year contract), which is $1.3M less than his previous contract, but not totally unrealistic.

We may as well sign him for $2M or so, but that would mean $1M less for Pau (and since reports talk about 2yr/$30M, we would need at least $14.6M in cap space to fit it). Another option would be to give Manu the Room Exception, for up to $2.9M, but then we wouldn't be able to bring Bertans in.

[EIC]

Good thread. Thanks for all the info, guys.

That's not a horrible roster. Definitely top 5 and likely top 3 in the league behind GSW and the Cavs.


Thanks so much, you broke that down perfectly. So so far we're looking at....

On roster under contract:

C - Pau (*sign on 7th*)
PF - Aldridge
SF - Kawhi, Anderson,
SG - Green, Simmons
PG - Parker, Mills

More likely to sign/resign:

C - Boban
SF - Bertans, LJC
SG - Manu
PG - Murray

More likely not to return:

PF - Duncan, Bonner

[cutewizard]

We just need a big black athletic shot blocker who don't give a fuk about shit


------------------------------------------------

that would be the Greek center

[spurs1990]

2016 vs 2017 side by side, with age difference in ()

Parker -> Parker
Green -> Green
Leonard -> Leonard
Duncan -> Gasol (-4.2 yrs)
Aldridge -> Aldridge

Mills -> Mills
Ginobili -> Ginobili
Anderson -> Anderson
Diaw -> Bertans (-10.5 yrs)
West -> LJC (-13.2 yrs)

Miller -> Murray (-20.5 yrs)
Simmons -> Simmons
Marjanovich -> Marjanovich

Bonner -> TBD
Martin -> TBD

With the four new (projected) additions Spurs get ~48.5 years younger, lowering the overall 13 man roster by 3.7 years.

[Spurs9]

Why would Boban only take 1.5million? I'm sure some teams would offer 4x that for him, like the Mavs.

[ceperez]

2016 vs 2017 side by side, with age difference in ()

Parker -> Parker
Green -> Green
Leonard -> Leonard
Duncan -> Gasol (-4.2 yrs)
Aldridge -> Aldridge

Mills -> Mills
Ginobili -> Ginobili
Anderson -> Anderson
Diaw -> Bertans (-10.5 yrs)
West -> LJC (-13.2 yrs)

Miller -> Murray (-20.5 yrs)
Simmons -> Simmons
Marjanovich -> Marjanovich

Bonner -> TBD
Martin -> TBD

With the four new (projected) additions Spurs get ~48.5 years younger, lowering the overall 13 man roster by 3.7 years.

Everyone staying is one year older than last year.

[wildbill2u]

We just need a big black athletic shot blocker who don't give a fuk about shit

Sounds like NDoye to me. Does anyone know if he will be on the Vegas SL? I really thought he should be in the SL this year when our big man situation is in flux. He's 7' and 250 and was really doing well after Dec. in the D League. Here are some highlight vids: http://dleague.nba.com/player/youssou-ndoye/

[SpursforSix]

We just need a big black athletic shot blocker who don't give a fuk about shit

Like Michael Brown?

sorry

[kxs783kms]

Like Michael Brown?

sorry

You just reduced yourself and your opinion to trash.

[ElNono]

As a Bird free agent, his cap hold is 190% of the previous salary: $2.8M x 190% = $5.4M. Pincus's numbers are usually more reliable than Spotrac's, and he confirms my calculations: http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/. Not that it would really matter anyway, cause we need it off the books to fit Pau's contract.


Arcidiacono might have a verbal agreement, but before July 7th both written and verbal agreements are considered negotiations and don't count agains the cap (think about the DeAndre Jordan affair from last year, when he had commited to the Mavs during the moratorium period, but then had second thoughts and went up to re-sign with the Clips).

Well, the minimum for Manu is actually $1.55M (even though it would count only $980k against the cap if it were to be a one-year contract), which is $1.3M less than his previous contract, but not totally unrealistic.

We may as well sign him for $2M or so, but that would mean $1M less for Pau (and since reports talk about 2yr/$30M, we would need at least $14.6M in cap space to fit it). Another option would be to give Manu the Room Exception, for up to $2.9M, but then we wouldn't be able to bring Bertans in.

I'll take your word for it. I think Manu will likely get the room exception (again). Don't know why we couldn't sign Bertrans for the min. Also, it would be interesting to see how is Pau's deal structured.

[Luxic]

I'll take your word for it. I think Manu will likely get the room exception (again). Don't know why we couldn't sign Bertrans for the min. Also, it would be interesting to see how is Pau's deal structured.

As details keep coming, I actually think we might re-sign Manu through cap space. Without Boban's cap hold and renouncing Manu's one as well, we have about $17.47M cap space. If Pau's deal is structured as Pincus reports ($14.13M in year one), we have up to $3.34M to re-sign Manu and sign Bertans (cause I don't see him coming over for the $547k rookie minimum). The Room Exception is probably going to go to Dedmon (he's reported to be signing for 2yr/$6M, which fits perfectly).

[Kawhi 5-0]

looks like a big Tylenol

[tmtcsc]

How many roster spots are up for grabs now? By my count, these 4 guys are competing for 3 spots - Is this accurate?



13. ** Bryn Forbes
14. ** Livio Jean Charles
15. ** Adam Hanga
16. ** Matt Bonner



1.Kawhi Leonard
2. LaMarcus Aldridge
3. Pau Gasol
4. Danny Green
5. Tony Parker

6. Manu Ginobili
7. Patty Mills
8. Kyle Anderson
9. Jonathan Simmons
10. Dewayne Dedmon

11. Dejounte Murray
12. Davis Bertans

[mo7888]

How many roster spots are up for grabs now? By my count, these 4 guys are competing for 3 spots - Is this accurate?



13. ** Bryn Forbes
14. ** Livio Jean Charles
15. ** Adam Hanga
16. ** Matt Bonner



1.Kawhi Leonard
2. LaMarcus Aldridge
3. Pau Gasol
4. Danny Green
5. Tony Parker

6. Manu Ginobili
7. Patty Mills
8. Kyle Anderson
9. Jonathan Simmons
10. Dewayne Dedmon

11. Dejounte Murray
12. Davis Bertans

I think that's pretty accurate for the time being. In this coming week there will be plenty of trades across the league since the main guys have been signed and there's more eyes left to spend. So the only thing that may change those positions you put up would be used participating in one of those trades...

[ElNono]

As details keep coming, I actually think we might re-sign Manu through cap space. Without Boban's cap hold and renouncing Manu's one as well, we have about $17.47M cap space. If Pau's deal is structured as Pincus reports ($14.13M in year one), we have up to $3.34M to re-sign Manu and sign Bertans (cause I don't see him coming over for the $547k rookie minimum). The Room Exception is probably going to go to Dedmon (he's reported to be signing for 2yr/$6M, which fits perfectly).

Looks like Dedmon will take the RE, and Manu will just be signed with Bird rights for whatever amount after we're over the cap. Apparently this is in case TD retires and gets stretched, otherwise, I suppose they'll move Patty to make room?
We'll have a clearer picture soon, I suppose.

[raybies]

How many roster spots are up for grabs now? By my count, these 4 guys are competing for 3 spots - Is this accurate?



13. ** Bryn Forbes
14. ** Livio Jean Charles
** Hanga is not coming over this year **
** Spurs have likely moved past Matt Bonner **



1.Kawhi Leonard
2. LaMarcus Aldridge
3. Pau Gasol
4. Danny Green
5. Tony Parker

6. Manu Ginobili
7. Patty Mills
8. Kyle Anderson
9. Jonathan Simmons
10. Dewayne Dedmon

11. Dejounte Murray
12. Davis Bertans

We need another center for sure, preferably with size and some experience. More like a c/pf, so someone with some size yet can defend smaller players and maybe another pf if Livio doesn't work out.

I'm not sure Livio makes the team. I dunno. I think it depends on if he performs well in Vegas. Otherwise he would have already signed his contract, which there are no reports that he has. It was said he was coming over this year but if he is, if I'm the Spurs, I'm looking for two things with him for right now and that's defense and rebounding. He has to show that he can defend at an elite level, both in the post and on the perimeter. I wouldn't be surprised if they put him on the best player whether that's in the post or on the wing. Whatever he brings offensively is a plus. If he can get his garbage cleanup buckets and hit his open mid-range j then he should be fine and will have a spot imo.

I think if Forbes can continue to knock down the three at a high rate then he's a lock. Can't let that shooting get away for nothing. He becomes an asset. He had an off night vs Boston and still had 9 points so he can score in other ways besides the three and I think teams are taking notice to him especially in this era of the three.

My lineup I want as of now is as follows:
Parker/ Mills/ Murray
Green/ Manu/ Forbes
Leonard/ Simmons/ Bertans
Aldridge/ Anderson/ Jean-Charles
Pau/ Dedmon/ Borrousis


There are really few options for a center at the vet minimum.
Willie Reed
Kendrick Perkins(eww)
Anderson Varejao

Options for PF at the vet minimum:
Christian Wood (?)
Jarnell Stokes
Kevin Seraphin
Luis Scola
Quincy Acy
Tyler Hansbrough
Terrence Jones
Thomas Robinson
Brandon Bass
Kris Humphries

But personally, I think we got a deal with Borrousis if Duncan retires. I think all the PF's we've been looking at are if Livio can't play, but we'll see.

[tmtcsc]

I think the Spurs need another experienced point guard and another PF/C for vet minimums. A pg who can bring the ball up and feed the post. Patty is not that player and I think it hurt his game.

[cutewizard]

I have a strange idea.......

Why not start Manu and Mills......so Gasol, LMA, Kawhi, Manu and Mills......Manu will orchestrate the offense, and Mills provides space with his three point shooting

then Parker, Murray and Green will be the warriors of the bench.....Green spells Kawhi as lockdown defender....

just a thought, i wonder.....

[kxs783kms]

I have a strange idea.......

Why not start Manu and Mills......so Gasol, LMA, Kawhi, Manu and Mills......Manu will orchestrate the offense, and Mills provides space with his three point shooting

then Parker, Murray and Green will be the warriors of the bench.....Green spells Kawhi as lockdown defender....

just a thought, i wonder.....

I don't like it. All of your shot creators are on the first unit and I wouldn't trust Parker to pass it to any of them on the second unit lol. Murray is too young to try to run a second unit and create things for himself and others.

[Keepin' it real]

good thread


looks like a big Tylenol

Now it is.:rollin

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/35/95/3c/35953c7ee848d5f4f093d51a74bba1e0.jpg

[turkish spurs fan]

we need to use alridge as a 3pts threat.

[SAGirl]

How many roster spots are up for grabs now? By my count, these 4 guys are competing for 3 spots - Is this accurate?



13. ** Bryn Forbes
14. ** Livio Jean Charles
15. ** Adam Hanga
16. ** Matt Bonner



1.Kawhi Leonard
2. LaMarcus Aldridge
3. Pau Gasol
4. Danny Green
5. Tony Parker

6. Manu Ginobili
7. Patty Mills
8. Kyle Anderson
9. Jonathan Simmons
10. Dewayne Dedmon

11. Dejounte Murray
12. Davis Bertans
I saw a tweet that LJC is going to sign a contract. He's definitely in.
That leaves 2 spots.

I see the following guys competing: Forbes and Arci bc they were reportedly signed to a guaranteed min for the first year (don't know details exactly but I saw it somewhere), Ndoye, Cady, Hanga... and yes Matt Bonner.

[PublicOption]

SILVER AND BLACK as usual.

[Taking it to the Hole]

I saw a tweet that LJC is going to sign a contract. He's definitely in.
That leaves 2 spots.

I see the following guys competing: Forbes and Arci bc they were reportedly signed to a guaranteed min for the first year (don't know details exactly but I saw it somewhere), Ndoye, Cady, Hanga... and yes Matt Bonner.

I hope that Bonner doesn't come back because he is just using up a roster space and is not going to play any significant minutes next season. I don't know why he would want to stick around now especially if Duncan retires. His days as team cheerleader would not be needed anymore. I really think that Forbes and Hanga would be solid contributors if they could even sniff a few minutes. I just can't see a need that Bonner fills on our team now. Bertans will replace the shooting and we have LJC now to provide some frontcourt depth. I hope that PATFO just let him go. I would know they are truly serious about reloading a new youthful team if they did that.

[cd021]

No to Matt Bonner, roster spots are at a premium this year. Spurs need players that can contribute or can improve (prospects)

[Kawhi 5-0]

[QUOTE=Keepin' it real;8665437]Now it is.:rollin

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/35/95/3c/35953c7ee848d5f4f093d51a74bba1e0.jpg[/QU
MOTE]

Haha :) awesome! I was too digitally illiterate to navigate the picture-posting process. Glad for your help! And glad someone got the joke!! --Paul

[ceperez]

How many roster spots are up for grabs now? By my count, these 4 guys are competing for 3 spots - Is this accurate?



13. ** Bryn Forbes
14. ** Livio Jean Charles
15. ** Adam Hanga
16. ** Matt Bonner



1.Kawhi Leonard
2. LaMarcus Aldridge
3. Pau Gasol
4. Danny Green
5. Tony Parker

6. Manu Ginobili
7. Patty Mills
8. Kyle Anderson
9. Jonathan Simmons
10. Dewayne Dedmon

11. Dejounte Murray
12. Davis Bertans

I don't think there's any rumor out there on Hanga.

13. Livio Jean Charles (No information of a signed contract)
14. Forbes - Some unverified news that he was signed for a year guaranteed.
15. Arcidiacono - Mostly unguaranteed.
16. Bonner - some statement by R.C. Bufford

Spurs will likely go to training camp with 3 slots open for competition, there probably all sorts of vets going to compete for those slots.

[sasaint]

I don't think there's any rumor out there on Hanga.

13. Livio Jean Charles (No information of a signed contract)
14. Forbes - Some unverified news that he was signed for a year guaranteed.
15. Arcidiacono - Mostly unguaranteed.
16. Bonner - some statement by R.C. Bufford

Spurs will likely go to training camp with 3 slots open for competition, there probably all sorts of vets going to compete for those slots.

Shaping up. I hope you are right and Chinook is mistaken in his analysis of the whole LJC "issue".

[GSH]

Shaping up. I hope you are right and Chinook is mistaken in his analysis of the whole LJC "issue".

I don't think Chinook is wrong. I'm just hoping that there's another way they can work it out. If he's not ready for the NBA, he's not ready. If there's a reasonably good alternative contract back in Europe, maybe they can convince him to go that route.

I guess at this point, having him at the end of the bench doesn't hurt much, since they don't have any impact player waiting to take the 15th spot. But I wouldn't mind seeing one of these young prospects sticking around for a better look. But that's all the Spurs would be doing with that roster spot.

[Chinook]

I don't think there's any way to sell the idea that LJC going back to Europe would be for his development. If anything he and Bertans are strong evidence against stashing any player who isn't selected with a throwaway pick.

[sasaint]

I don't think Chinook is wrong. I'm just hoping that there's another way they can work it out. If he's not ready for the NBA, he's not ready. If there's a reasonably good alternative contract back in Europe, maybe they can convince him to go that route.

I guess at this point, having him at the end of the bench doesn't hurt much, since they don't have any impact player waiting to take the 15th spot. But I wouldn't mind seeing one of these young prospects sticking around for a better look. But that's all the Spurs would be doing with that roster spot.

The issue is compounded if PATFO is intent on keeping both LJC and Bonner.

[GSH]

I don't think there's any way to sell the idea that LJC going back to Europe would be for his development. If anything he and Bertans are strong evidence against stashing any player who isn't selected with a throwaway pick.


Yeah, deep down I've known you're right, and the fact that he came here and agreed to play SL says he's almost a lock to be on the team. I keep thinking that the fact that nothing has been signed yet means... well, something. If he and/or his agent is playing hardball over the 120%, they're out of line with where he is as a player. And I guess I'm thinking the Spurs are using that to maybe discourage him. But usually what's going on behind the scenes isn't anything like what we speculate.

From his perspective, I'm sure taking a crack at the NBA is a big deal. I wonder if the Spurs have brought up the possibility of him playing D-League, and that's a sticking point? I know they have an obligation to pay his contract, but that doesn't give him the right to dictate everything he will and won't do. If he couldn't live with some time in the D-League, I don't see why they couldn't wash their hands of him.

[SAGirl]

I think the biggest reason LJC has a case to stay, aside of all the contractual obligations that Chinook and Nono debated, is that we are very thin on bigs as it is, so then you wonder, dishonor his agreement for who??? If it's for Bonner, now way! It's not like there are other bigs out there. Spurs apparently didn't even go after some min vet FA out there, or they haven't so far. It's possible we see someone like Rasual Butler last season, some vet who tries out for the team after not getting good offers anywhere else (though Spurs cutting Butler not a good enticement).

Of the non LJC bigs I guess the only one who I can see in training camp is Cady.