DUNC'D ON PODCAST: West nearly better than Pau; Spurs maybe disrespected West?

[objective]

Part two of the July 5 podcast, about 35 minutes in has the live reaction to the West news. I think these guys are very sharp and put the work into watch and research, but even someone like me who was not thrilled about Pau can't be on board with this.

For those who don't know, the Dunc'd On Podcast is the new hotness in the media, with two writers who are usually pretty good and fair, but are slight Warriors homers. They've been down on Pau quite harshly for his defense and defensive rebounding and down on him helping the Spurs. But I found the West reaction interesting enough to share:


"Maybe he felt disrespected by the Spurs because they kinda had space and they went with Pau Gasol.
I actually think that David West, ehhh, no, I don't know if I want to go that far as saying he's better than Pau Gasol, but in some ways he's a little bit better of a fit."


They know about Duncan's likely retirement and still think West is a better fit for the Spurs ... ouch. Funny stuff.

They also expect Boban's qo to be rescinded, so we'll see how sharp they are.

[BillMc]

West and Pau both have skills.

Pau will always be 7 feet though and therefore have more value even as his skills decline.

Pau is a better fit for the Spurs.

[Dex]

West and Pau both have skills.

Pau will always be 7 feet though and therefore have more value even as his skills decline.

Pau is a better fit for the Spurs.

Bingo.

West fits the Spurs in the Malik Rose category.

Pau fits the Spurs in the Tim Duncan category.

I'll give you one guess as to which is the better choice.

[HarlemHeat37]

West was actually really, really good during the RS, tbh..

The post-season is a tougher read, though..he only played 30 minutes or so vs. OKC, he became unplayable, but was that strictly due to matchup? Or exacerbated by elevating his role with Duncan struggling and Diaw being a non-factor?

He'll thrive in GS..they won't ask for much out of him, he'll be a superior version of Speights..

As for the Spurs, while I'm not a huge fan of Gasol, he's unquestionably a better shot-creator than David West..the lack of creating outside of Kawhi/Aldridge and the occasional flashes from Parker was very evident vs. OKC..

[GSH]

Except for the part about West being a PF, and not tall enough to play C, and the part about him not being able to post up guys who are legitimate C's? Yeah, I'd say that West was "almost better" than Pau.

I like DWest, but what the hell kind of comment is that?

West is a fiery guy - a competitor. It's one of the things I like about him. I wouldn't be surprised if he feels like he could have made a difference, if he had gotten more floor time (whether it's true or not). So, yeah, maybe he was too twisted to come back. But it was 100% clear that he gave up money to chase a ring, and he didn't get one. Now he's gone where he's most likely to get one. That's not personal, it's just what he wants at this point in his career. Dissecting all the sticky bits is just a waste of time.

[Spur|n|Austin]

These guys are the "new hotness" in the media huh?

[testies]

Are you fucking serious? Didn't he watch West single handedly eliminate us from the playoffs?

Please, tell me this guys' name

[eDizzle20]

Gasol's length is much needed. The Diaw/West combo was atrocious vs OKC's bigs. Not to mention Gasol is still a go to guy on the offensive end.

[Vic Petro]

These guys are the "new hotness" in the media huh?

:lol

[coachmac87]

My podcast is the only one worth a damn tbh

Stay tuned :lol

[objective]

These guys are the "new hotness" in the media huh?

Oh yeah. They're so hot right now.

-insert Zoolander Mugatu pic-

[RD2191]

My podcast is the only one worth a damn tbh

Stay tuned :lol

I want a guest spot one day.

[dabom]

I want a guest spot one day.

I'd listen to it tbh...

[tonight...you]

I want a guest spot one day.
I'll do it after four Baby A's purple margarita's.
Must see podcast...

[RD2191]

:lol I'll give u niggas a shout

[coachmac87]

I'd listen to it tbh...

You promised me you'd spread the word bro. Should I bring on RD?

[BillMc]

My podcast is the only one worth a damn tbh

Stay tuned :lol

Send us the link my friend. :flag:

[tonight...you]

You promised me you'd spread the word bro. Should I bring on RD?
Shoot me a link. I'll listen. I'll do guest spots. I have a sexy voice too. Bonus!

[dabom]

You promised me you'd spread the word bro. Should I bring on RD?

You'd have a thriving podcast bro. :hat

[coachmac87]

Send us the link my friend. :flag:

Waiting on Duncan announcement.

[Mouth is Bleeding]

They don't like West normally so I was also surprised by this.

They're really down on Gasol though but have held back some when it comes to Gasol specifically on the Spurs.

[coachmac87]

West was actually really, really good during the RS, tbh..

The post-season is a tougher read, though..he only played 30 minutes or so vs. OKC, he became unplayable, but was that strictly due to matchup? Or exacerbated by elevating his role with Duncan struggling and Diaw being a non-factor?

He'll thrive in GS..they won't ask for much out of him, he'll be a superior version of Speights..

As for the Spurs, while I'm not a huge fan of Gasol, he's unquestionably a better shot-creator than David West..the lack of creating outside of Kawhi/Aldridge and the occasional flashes from Parker was very evident vs. OKC..


Pau Gasol is 10x the player West is and can actually play center and grab a rebound to save his life

[MaNu4Tres]

Part two of the July 5 podcast, about 35 minutes in has the live reaction to the West news. I think these guys are very sharp and put the work into watch and research, but even someone like me who was not thrilled about Pau can't be on board with this.

For those who don't know, the Dunc'd On Podcast is the new hotness in the media, with two writers who are usually pretty good and fair, but are slight Warriors homers. They've been down on Pau quite harshly for his defense and defensive rebounding and down on him helping the Spurs. But I found the West reaction interesting enough to share:



They know about Duncan's likely retirement and still think West is a better fit for the Spurs ... ouch. Funny stuff.

They also expect Boban's qo to be rescinded, so we'll see how sharp they are.

Those guys are very sharp, but they cover so much ground to where inefficiencies are inevitable (regarding their analysis from team to team).

West fell off a cliff after the All-star break and got roasted in the playoffs when it mattered.

To say West is better than Pau or even the slight thought of it couldn't be more wrong.

[sasaint]

Except for the part about West being a PF, and not tall enough to play C, and the part about him not being able to post up guys who are legitimate C's? Yeah, I'd say that West was "almost better" than Pau.

I like DWest, but what the hell kind of comment is that?

West is a fiery guy - a competitor. It's one of the things I like about him. I wouldn't be surprised if he feels like he could have made a difference, if he had gotten more floor time (whether it's true or not). So, yeah, maybe he was too twisted to come back. But it was 100% clear that he gave up money to chase a ring, and he didn't get one. Now he's gone where he's most likely to get one. That's not personal, it's just what he wants at this point in his career. Dissecting all the sticky bits is just a waste of time.

To flog a dead horse: it might have made a difference the entire season and post-season if Pop had played West at his natural position. I wonder if he had a firm idea how Pop planned to use him when he signed with us... Splitting Tim and LMA and DWest and Boris would have optimized all their talents and optimized the Spurs chances to win. Burying Boban on the bench against OKC when we were getting killed and Boban had murdered the OKC bigs in their regular season matchup was the final nail in the Spurs' coffin.

West might have had a chance at making the difference if he had not just gotten more floor time, but floor time in the right pairing of bigs.

[dabom]

I dont even think west had one good game vs the elite team in the RS. :lol

That's why you can't base a player on impact stats all the time.

[tonight...you]

Pau Gasol is 10x the player West is and can actually play center and grab a rebound to save his life
Seriously. Anybody that watched the two players last year could easily see it.
Pau can still carry a team from time to time. West? Uh... yeah, umm.... He's carrying coattails, not teams.

And Pau is what this team needs to replace Tim, not bringing back West. That's just stupid and begging Aldridge to play the very position he loathes.
The hugest thing is Pau is going to be synergistic with the team very quickly. He has such a high B-ball IQ, such a feel for the game (like Manu) that he's going to surprise the team with how well he does with them as quickly as he will.

[Mouth is Bleeding]

Pau Gasol is 10x the player West is and can actually play center and grab a rebound to save his life

One myth that needs to die is that Spurs in general lacked defensive rebounding. For much of the season we had the best defensive rebound rate in the league and we ended up in top 3.

A lot of that is Timmy and it doesn't get much better when it comes to defensive rebounding than him, LMA and Kawhi on the floor together.

Yes, then it all went to hell against OKC in the playoffs for a variety of reasons, partly of course Timmy not being on the floor for various reasons.

But we should absolutely expect a drop in defensive rebounding with Gasol instead of Timmy. We just have to hope that the overall defense won't drop too much either and the perimeter, system and Gasol himself can somehow hold the fort.

[Spur|n|Austin]

I'll do it after four Baby A's purple margarita's.
Must see podcast...

Too bad they cut you off after, two - sometimes three if you're cool with the waiter.

[tonight...you]

Too bad they cut you off after, two - sometimes three if you're cool with the waiter.
That's when you have someone take you to the other Baby A's... or be friends with the standing manager.
I gots these things worked out, my man!

[coachmac87]

One myth that needs to die is that Spurs in general lacked defensive rebounding. For much of the season we had the best defensive rebound rate in the league and we ended up in top 3.

A lot of that is Timmy and it doesn't get much better when it comes to defensive rebounding than him, LMA and Kawhi on the floor together.


Spurs rebounding hurt on both ends tbh. It's been a major weakness for awhile tho..Spurs are really becoming super late long on the front court especially if we get Boban. If Spurs can really improve their offensive rebounding..our offense would REALLY improve

Yes, then it all went to hell against OKC in the playoffs for a variety of reasons, partly of course Timmy not being on the floor for various reasons.

But we should absolutely expect a drop in defensive rebounding with Gasol instead of Timmy. We just have to hope that the overall defense won't drop too much either and the perimeter, system and Gasol himself can somehow hold the fort.



Spurs are becoming really long on the front court. Getting rebounding has been a weakness for awhile..especially offensive boards. If we improve that our offense will be a lot better

[Atl Spur]

West hasn't ever been good as Pau Gasol even in his prime........are you guys on dope?!?! Pau just gave a team 46pts and 18rbs last year.............. who on our frontline could do that outside of LMA???? I'll wait for a rational reply.......

[HarlemHeat37]

Pau Gasol is 10x the player West is and can actually play center and grab a rebound to save his life

Of course he's better than West, didn't say anything to the contrary..

[Kawhitstorm]

West was actually really, really good during the RS, tbh..

He was good when he was feasting on backups & teams that weren't scheming against him. Even Blair was effective as a STARTER in the regular season during his first 3 seasons.:lol

The only team that really schemed against him in the regular season were the Duds who absolutely raped him in the paint when he was playing center (he barley played in the game the Spurs won). Kanter also ate his lunch in the season opener & also the final meeting of the season where Boban had to rescue him from getting mauled.:lol

His advanced metric don't pass the eye-test, his DRPM was rated 4th & none other than Amare is 7th.:lmao


The post-season is a tougher read, though..he only played 30 minutes or so vs. OKC, he became unplayable, but was that strictly due to matchup? Or exacerbated by elevating his role with Duncan struggling and Diaw being a non-factor?

He was getting outplayed by Scola/Lavoy Allen last season.:lol

These were the results when he played heavy minutes (aka had a LARGE sample size) before he fell off:

Lowest shot Contest Rates Among Frontcourt players, 2013-14



David West: 23.4 percent
Mike Scott: 23.9 percent
Josh McRoberts: 25.1 percent
Blake Griffin: 25.3 percent
Jeremy Evans: 25.6 percent



He'll thrive in GS..they won't ask for much out of him, he'll be a superior version of Speights

I don't think they need help on offense after they swapped Barnes for Dominos.:lol They need guys who can rebound & protect the rim, D-Worst isn't the guy for that job. He also has brick feet so he's a liability on the perimeter & doesn't take charges or dive for loose balls aka he's isn't a garbage man. He's a very good team defender (he can anticipate plays & communicates well) but he has to play w/ a rim protector at all times (i.e. Hibbert).

Sideshow Bob was playing over Speight b/c they needed a dude that would do the dirty work instead of spread the floor.


As for the Spurs, while I'm not a huge fan of Gasol, he's unquestionably a better shot-creator than David West..the lack of creating outside of Kawhi/Aldridge and the occasional flashes from Parker was very evident vs. OKC..
If you swapped Diaw/D-Worst/Tim w/ Pau, the Spurs would have beaten OKC.:wakeup

[DMC]

Better doesn't matter. Better fit matters.

[UZER]

I don't defend West, but it's not his fault he had to keep playing next to Diaw, even in the playoffs.

[Atl Spur]

DMC are you serious or are you joking? This isn't really an argument/debate of who is the better fit.......

[Atl Spur]

we need scoring, rebounding, length, and lastly someone that can get us buckets in the half court sets! Posting these little teams up truly helps slow down the game......

[SuperCam]

isn't this the podcast full of warrior dick suckers? of course they're gonna pump up West since their favorite faggot team picked him up..

[coachmac87]

isn't this the podcast full of warrior dick suckers? of course they're gonna pump up West since their favorite faggot team picked him up..

Exactly. Reason being their podcast is crap

[Kawhitstorm]

West hasn't ever been good as Pau Gasol even in his prime.

I remember David West at his PEAK getting manhandled by Kenyon Martin whose knees were Amare status at that point of his career. Dude is one of those dogs whose bark is the loudest but can't even bite into Styrofoam.

[Solid D]

No comparison between Pau Gasol and David West. The interior defense will improve with Pau and the offense should flow even better than it did with the 67 win Spurs.

[Kawhitstorm]

I don't defend West, but it's not his fault he had to keep playing next to Diaw, even in the playoffs.

Remember when D-Worst started at center against the Warriors & had a train ran on him.:rolleyes

Diaw got the start in the 2nd meeting & the Spurs shut 'em down. (D-Worst didn't even play until garbage time::lol)

[Kawhitstorm]

For those who don't know, the Dunc'd On Podcast is the new hotness in the media, with two writers who are usually pretty good and fair, but are slight Warriors homers. They've been down on Pau quite harshly for his defense and defensive rebounding and down on him helping the Spurs.

We're talking about the same muphuckas that said Aldridge would be a disaster on defense compared to TiaGoat.:lol

They also said Mozgov should play over Love when the Cavs went down 3-1.:lol

[EIC]

Gasol averaged a double-double and commanded what would have been regarded as a max or near-max deal prior to this free-agent season. What did West do?

[Mikeanaro]

We're talking about the same muphuckas that said Aldridge would be a disaster on defense compared to TiaGoat.:lol

They also said Mozgov should play over Love when the Cavs went down 3-1.:lol
Love was a total loser... until he trapped Curry on that last play lol he made him choke like a pro, now KLove is worth every penny.

[aal04]

I saw it early in the OKC series. West was pissed off. And so was I.

Pop completely misused him. Pop chit the bed most out of all the spurs in the okc series.

From the final whistle he stormed out immediately and i knew he wasnt coming back. I dont blame him because we should have beaten okc. critically acclaimed team USA coach and Pop was just playing far too many ISO plays and poor lineups. Pop was outcoached by a rookie. he was lazy

But having said that, there is no way West is in the same league as Pau. Pau i know can often play with Dirk impact whereas I pictured West as a constant consistent force.

I still think Pau can still be All-nba material in the right situation. Im just sitting on the fence in respect to the way Pop will play him.

[SAGirl]

Part two of the July 5 podcast, about 35 minutes in has the live reaction to the West news. I think these guys are very sharp and put the work into watch and research, but even someone like me who was not thrilled about Pau can't be on board with this.

For those who don't know, the Dunc'd On Podcast is the new hotness in the media, with two writers who are usually pretty good and fair, but are slight Warriors homers. They've been down on Pau quite harshly for his defense and defensive rebounding and down on him helping the Spurs. But I found the West reaction interesting enough to share:



They know about Duncan's likely retirement and still think West is a better fit for the Spurs ... ouch. Funny stuff.

They also expect Boban's qo to be rescinded, so we'll see how sharp they are.
Wait until they see Dwest defense and rebounding TBH. Thanks for sharing. :tu

[Chinook]

My guess is he wanted money, and the Spurs weren't into that. They needed a bench center. As I've said many times, I don't think he would have been a bad starter. But he can't play the five anymore. So if the team can only afford one bench big, it wasn't going to be West. And getting a bona fide offensive player like Gasol should help then quite a bit more than a role-player like West. I wanted a guard, but in the market they had, that was dicey.

[SAGirl]

I saw it early in the OKC series. West was pissed off. And so was I.

Pop completely misused him. Pop chit the bed most out of all the spurs in the okc series.

From the final whistle he stormed out immediately and i knew he wasnt coming back. I dont blame him because we should have beaten okc. critically acclaimed team USA coach and Pop was just playing far too many ISO plays and poor lineups. Pop was outcoached by a rookie. he was lazy

But having said that, there is no way West is in the same league as Pau. Pau i know can often play with Dirk impact whereas I pictured West as a constant consistent force.

I still think Pau can still be All-nba material in the right situation. Im just sitting on the fence in respect to the way Pop will play him.
Pop will have a lot to answer this season. I was in the camp that gave him a pass this summer in dat thread from ElNono, about Pop going senile...
but the reason is that Timmy really fell off a cliff latter part of the season and it felt like he was in fumes giving all he had but he didn't look right. Can't blame Pop when he had relied so much on Timmy and Boban wasn't ready. The reason Boban wasn't ready? Pop precisely having loyalty to Dwest and not playing Boban at Center. DWest practically made Diaw irrelevant if you played Boban.. and Diaw well, he had reason to be coasting at that rate if he didn't play and the man already had a tendency to coast if you left him irrelevant.

But the point I really wanted to make was that there were issues last season, mainly TD's lack of health that were too much for Pop to cover for. This season Pop will have to coach for real. Youngsters even and he can't afford to misuse these youngsters for several reasons: chief among them the youngest ones are in the formative stages of their games. Whatever he has in store for them needs to be unleashed. He needs to maximize what he has now... maybe that includes not featuring Manu as much.

[SAGirl]

My guess is he wanted money, and the Spurs weren't into that. They needed a bench center. As I've said many times, I don't think he would have been a bad starter. But he can't play the five anymore. So if the team can only afford one bench big, it wasn't going to be West. And getting a bona fide offensive player like Gasol should help then quite a bit more than a role-player like West. I wanted a guard, but in the market they had, that was dicey.
Good reasonable post. If we had to pay market or near market price for a big it had to be 7 ft bc the loss of Duncan was really what did us in. A TD from 2015 playoffs shows up and we are telling a different story.

[Sean Cagney]

isn't this the podcast full of warrior dick suckers? of course they're gonna pump up West since their favorite faggot team picked him up..

Your damn right! Media and their darling teams, fuck em.

[therealtruth]

The Spurs always get the players when they're over the hill. Finley, Van Excel, Dice. Hopefully he still has a lot left.

[KenziE]

Pop will have a lot to answer this season. I was in the camp that gave him a pass this summer in dat thread from ElNono (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8054), about Pop going senile...
but the reason is that Timmy really fell off a cliff latter part of the season and it felt like he was in fumes giving all he had but he didn't look right. Can't blame Pop when he had relied so much on Timmy and Boban wasn't ready. The reason Boban wasn't ready? Pop precisely having loyalty to Dwest and not playing Boban at Center. DWest practically made Diaw irrelevant if you played Boban.. and Diaw well, he had reason to be coasting at that rate if he didn't play and the man already had a tendency to coast if you left him irrelevant.

But the point I really wanted to make was that there were issues last season, mainly TD's lack of health that were too much for Pop to cover for. This season Pop will have to coach for real. Youngsters even and he can't afford to misuse these youngsters for several reasons: chief among them the youngest ones are in the formative stages of their games. Whatever he has in store for them needs to be unleashed. He needs to maximize what he has now... maybe that includes not featuring Manu as much.

man SAG with the goods ... Appreciate your posts as always, top 5 poster of the year tbh ..

[DrSteffo]

My guess is he wanted money, and the Spurs weren't into that. They needed a bench center. As I've said many times, I don't think he would have been a bad starter. But he can't play the five anymore. So if the team can only afford one bench big, it wasn't going to be West. And getting a bona fide offensive player like Gasol should help then quite a bit more than a role-player like West. I wanted a guard, but in the market they had, that was dicey.

So, you were wrong and we were right about West.

[SAGirl]

man SAG with the goods ... Appreciate your posts as always, top 5 poster of the year tbh ..
Thanks. A lot of posters I like. A few very noisy trolls just ugly it up. :toast

[DeRozan m8]

Pau and West aren't even in the same league.

And West as C was complete garbage.

He looked like a lost rookie out there

[Chinook]

So, you were wrong and we were right about West.

No. I think Aldridge is a five. But with Anderson set to be the backup four, there'd be no question West would be the bench five. You should have gotten that from the post I made.

[DeRozan m8]

man SAG with the goods ... Appreciate your posts as always, top 5 poster of the year tbh ..

She's good when she's not talking about Kyle.

But it makes for tough reading sometimes, just waiting to get to the Kyle part and start raging haha

All good

[hsxvvd]

Great podcast to listen to, but they are massive Golden State homers. If they signed Bonner they'd say he was better than Pau.

[Seventyniner]

No. I think Aldridge is a five. But with Anderson set to be the backup four, there'd be no question West would be the bench five. You should have gotten that from the post I made.

Did you expect Anderson to be a 4 or has that just become apparent from his bulking up and the FO's moves so far?

If West had been willing to take the minimum from the Spurs again he would have been worth having, but not if the FO really wants Anderson to be the backup 4.

[Mouth is Bleeding]

Kyle can never ever guard anyone below 4s because he is so slow.

Getting bigger and stronger the only answer if he wants to have an NBA career beyond his rookie contract.

His future is clearly as a 4.

Learning how to shoot from range would also help! That's simply a must for a non-athletic 4 in today's NBA.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

No comparison between Pau Gasol and David West. The interior defense will improve with Pau and the offense should flow even better than it did with the 67 win Spurs.

:tu


My brother Solid needs his own podcast.

[tholdren]

She's good when she's not talking about Kyle.

But it makes for tough reading sometimes, just waiting to get to the Kyle part and start raging haha

All good
SA tranny is as good as KA in the playoffs.

[MultiTroll]

:lol Blaming West for the way Retardedovich misused him.

[SpursFan86]

I think it's really dumb how critical some people here are of West. Dude was extremely solid in the regular season and a fairly large part of why we were able to win 67 games even with our starting bigs playing limited minutes. Yeah he shat the bed against OKC, but 1) it was a bad matchup for him, especially with Pop trying to play him at center, and 2) damn near the entire team shat the bed against OKC :lol Blaming West for losing that series seems insane to me.

I mean obviously I'd rather have Pau, just think the whole "D-worst" stuff is stupid. Dude took a giant paycut to come here and gave it his all. People act like he was the worst player on the team or something. He wasn't a great fit with our bench, but it seems a bit dumb to fault him for that when it was Pop and the FO who put him in that situation. I'd love to have him back now that we have Dedmon as our backup C.

[Chinook]

Did you expect Anderson to be a 4 or has that just become apparent from his bulking up and the FO's moves so far?

If West had been willing to take the minimum from the Spurs again he would have been worth having, but not if the FO really wants Anderson to be the backup 4.

I think he will be asked to play the four a lot more. But even if it's not him, it looks like it will be him, Bertans and LJC splitting time there.

[Kawhitstorm]

I think it's really dumb how critical some people here are of West. Dude was extremely solid in the regular season and a fairly large part of why we were able to win 67 games even with our starting bigs playing limited minutes. Yeah he shat the bed against OKC, but 1) it was a bad matchup for him, especially with Pop trying to play him at center, and 2) damn near the entire team shat the bed against OKC :lol Blaming West for losing that series seems insane to me.

I mean obviously I'd rather have Pau, just think the whole "D-worst" stuff is stupid. Dude took a giant paycut to come here and gave it his all. People act like he was the worst player on the team or something. He wasn't a great fit with our bench, but it seems a bit dumb to fault him for that when it was Pop and the FO who put him in that situation. I'd love to have him back now that we have Dedmon as our backup C.

Not sure why folks defend D-Worst as if he wasn't getting outplayed by the corpse of Luis Scola last season.:lol

[SpursFan86]

Not sure why folks defend D-Worst as if he wasn't getting outplayed by the corpse of Luis Scola last season.:lol

Since I saw you use VORP in another topic to compare Parker/Ellis, I'll assume you think it's a fairly useful stat (otherwise, I don't know why you'd bring it up).

West last year: 1.9 VORP
Scola last year: 0.3 VORP

In fact, pretty much any metric you can find out there points to West being an above-average player last season. He was 10th among all PFs in RPM. He was 5th on the Spurs in PER, 4th in WS/48, 5th in BPM, and 5th in VORP. The team played just as well with West on the court compared to off the court.

I'm not saying he's necessarily as good as those metrics might suggest, but the dude was our 4th big playing for the fucking minimum :lol The amount of criticism he gets from some people here is beyond stupid. It'd be one thing if we signed West to a big contract and he was playing like shit for 30 mpg, but that's not the case at all.

[CGD]

They're usually balanced and do a decent job hiding their Warrior homerism, but they were still understandably giddy after getting Durant

[Kawhitstorm]

Since I saw you use VORP in another topic to compare Parker/Ellis, I'll assume you think it's a fairly useful stat (otherwise, I don't know why you'd bring it up).

West last year: 1.9 VORP
Scola last year: 0.3 VORP



Monta Ellis played on mediocre teams compared to Porker, lets compare West/Scola's RPM when they were playing the SAME system::lol

He was getting benched for Scola at the end of the 2014-15 season::lol http://www.indycornrows.com/2015/2/16/8046543/there-is-value-in-david-west-being-there-for-the-pacers


0.41: West's Real Plus Minus (RPM) defined by ESPN.com as a "player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors" is ranked lower than both Lavoy Allen's (2.77) and Luis Scola's (1.23).

(http://www.indycornrows.com/2015/2/16/8046543/there-is-value-in-david-west-being-there-for-the-pacers)
Given this caveat, what has perhaps been more disconcerting than the slide in his on-court impact have been the cracks in the professionalism of his on-court demeanor. At times,West has appeared somewhat disinterested in as well as disgruntled with the process. The very same player who once would have unleashed the wrath of his signature scowl at Paul George for making a cavalier behind the back pass in traffic has been guilty of developing his own brand of lack of mental focus this season (http://www.indycornrows.com/2015/2/16/8046543/there-is-value-in-david-west-being-there-for-the-pacers)



In fact, pretty much any metric you can find out there points to West being an above-average player last season. He was 10th among all PFs in RPM. He was 5th on the Spurs in PER, 4th in WS/48, 5th in BPM, and 5th in VORP. The team played just as well with West on the court compared to off the court.

Patty has similar deceptive advanced metrics but eye test says it's a fluke.:wakeup


I'm not saying he's necessarily as good as those metrics might suggest, but the dude was our 4th big playing for the fucking minimum :lol The amount of criticism he gets from some people here is beyond stupid. It'd be one thing if we signed West to a big contract and he was playing like shit for 30 mpg, but that's not the case at all.

Washed up Scola looks like prime Karl Malone compared to D-Worst when they are together on the same court::lol

QMN5f4VztL8

[SpursFan86]

So now we're judging how West played last year with the Spurs based off how he played in a much larger role the year before on a different team? :lol That seems pretty stupid. I really don't care about Scola - the main point of my argument is that West wasn't bad at all for the role he played last year with the Spurs (4th big on a minimum contract). Again, the guy wasn't even playing 20 mpg and was on a minimum deal. If you weren't happy with his production/performance given that role, then your standards for a 4th big are far too high. Compare West's production to other team's 4th bigs from around the league and let me know what you find.

And please, are we really resorting to YouTube highlights to back up our arguments now? Should I link highlights from that game where Parker dropped 31 and start arguing that Parker was actually really solid last year? :lol

[Solid D]

:tu


My brother Solid needs his own podcast.

Haha, no thanks, Chopper. Trying to finish grad school.

[SAGirl]

Did you expect Anderson to be a 4 or has that just become apparent from his bulking up and the FO's moves so far?

If West had been willing to take the minimum from the Spurs again he would have been worth having, but not if the FO really wants Anderson to be the backup 4.

I wonder about that. Maybe the hushed aspect that no one mentions is that Pop really likes Anderson and cleared vets to open up playing time for him. It happens all the time.

For D west, the Spurs were a tough choice to come back to. He wasn't tied to Pop and the culture the same way and he could have cared less long term what the Spurs were doing and probably didn't even like the idea that youngster Anderson could come in balling out of the gates and his playing time dwindle. He probably considered Bertans another stretch forward coming in, that was going to get time to develop as well. So it was clear to D west his playing time wasn't guaranteed as a PF. He was going to in effect be subject to youngsters competing for a spot. Yeah he might have started out better than the others, but he wasn't mobile enough to keep up with some forwards (even Diaw wasn't the forward of choice for Pop to defend on the 3 guys like Ryan Anderson). If D west came back as a PF he was likely a deep reserve. Considering that, he might just just preferred to retire (something that was a real consideration) or ring chase elsewhere.

[Kawhitstorm]

So now we're judging how West played last year with the Spurs based off how he played in a much larger role the year before on a different team? :lol That seems pretty stupid. I really don't care about Scola - the main point of my argument is that West wasn't bad at all for the role he played last year with the Spurs (4th big on a minimum contract). Again, the guy wasn't even playing 20 mpg and was on a minimum deal. If you weren't happy with his production/performance given that role, then your standards for a 4th big are far too high. Compare West's production to other team's 4th bigs from around the league and let me know what you find.

My point is why are folks fighting tooth and nails for a 4th big that basically unplayable against contenders ala Blair?:lol(The Bonner Crew has jumped on the D-Worst bandwagon)
Give some guy like Jarnell Stokes a shot & develop some young players b/c D-Worst isn't moving the needle.:wakeup