Which team was supposedly ready to throw 18-19 millions at Manu?

[spursistan]

:lmao

I actually don't think it is a bluff..my guess: Nuggets..

[emanueldavidginobili]

Toronto.

[DeRozan m8]

Yeah Nuggets

[Chinook]

Denver.

[houston spurs fan]

Raptors, would have been a good move for them.

[spursistan]

Yeah Nuggets
probably a late push after they lost out in the Wade sweepstakes..they just desperately want to sell tickets with "a name", any name (Denver has lowest attendance rate in league)..

[TheGreatYacht]

He's worth a 10-day contract. He's bluffing.

[Drom John]

Heat as Poke at Wade.

[hooperflash]

:lol the thought of Manu playing for Denver... he would still be booed, tbh.

[tonight...you]

Heat as Poke at Wade.
Now that would be pretty funny, if that came out.

[Mel_13]

Sixers. They have the money and Rudoy has known the Colangelos for decades.

[objective]

My guess is Boston. They had all that extra time to void contacts and make room, plus they lost their second unit creator with Turner.

[r0drig0lac]

Denver..no doubt

[Ditty]

I bet it was Houston, Morey has always been a huge fan of Gino.

[dabom]

Can anyone show a link? I just keep finding "very serious big offer".

[ThaBigFundamental21]

:lol the thought of Manu playing for Denver... he would still be booed, tbh.

They absolutely hate Manu in these parts, I love it. I run my mouth to Nuggets fans constantly about the 05 playoffs.

[cd98]

Who's got space to sign him? Hard to think Boston or another good team would drop players to open cap space for a 39-year old that can probably only give you 15 minutes a game on average.

[jhfenton]

Sixers. They have the money and Rudoy has known the Colangelos for decades.

That would have been my guess. Brett Brown. Lots of money that they *have* to spend. And Manu could be a coach on the bench and floor for that collection of baby basketball players.

[tholdren]

Mavs

[Canyonero]

Who wouldn't pay Manu $18M?

[sasaint]

That would have been my guess. Brett Brown. Lots of money that they *have* to spend. And Manu could be a coach on the bench and floor for that collection of baby basketball players.

:tu

[ducks]

Who wouldn't pay Manu $18M?

Any smart owner

[Seventyniner]

I always thought Philly would offer 1 year, $20M to Kobe and that he'd take it.

[Spur-Addict]

Stop the bullshit. Anyone giving him anywhere near that is a joke. I could see someone doing 13 Mill. Which is still OVERPAYING for a name that died years ago.

[Canyonero]

Any smart owner

Parker fanboy smh

[slick'81]

Stop the bullshit. Anyone giving him anywhere near that is a joke. I could see someone doing 13 Mill. Which is still OVERPAYING for a name that died years ago.


Whats wrng with paying him millions for 20 min a night and being injured half the season

[tonight...you]

Whats wrng with paying him millions for 20 min a night and being injured half the season
That's the American Dream, for God's sakes!

[cd98]

If it's Philly...damn are they desperate to sign a veteran. I guess they figure he can count his money while enduring another miserable losing season.

[tonight...you]

If it's Philly...damn are they desperate to sign a veteran. I guess they figure he can count his money while enduring another miserable losing season.
I honestly believe it was a team with young prospects, like Philly, or LA and wanted him to not only play a bit, but also mentor. I mean, Ginobili would have every young guy's full attention if he was on their team.
And he would probably do a damn good job of leaving a winning impression on said kids.

I'm glad he never got the chance.

[SPURt]

Who wouldn't pay Manu $18M?
Apparently the Spurs, as his pimp likes to point out.

[james evans]

that's what I want to now too. I know these contracts recently have been bad, but I don't even think Philly is that stupid to offer him that. It's 100% bullshit

[Mel_13]

that's what I want to now too. I know these contracts recently have been bad, but I don't even think Philly is that stupid to offer him that. It's 100% bullshit

Not at all. Look up the rules concerning the salary cap floor and then look at Philly's current payroll. Signing Manu for 18M wouldn't change the team's net salary expenditures for 2016-17.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

They absolutely hate Manu in these parts, I love it. I run my mouth to Nuggets fans constantly about the 05 playoffs.
And then the spinning acrobatic layup + charge combo at the end of that one game in Denver in the 2011 season... we didn't win the ship that year, but we had the #1 record in the west and that was a good time

[Sean Cagney]

Mavs

My GUESS, Cubes to troll the Spurs.....

[GSH]

My GUESS, Cubes to troll the Spurs.....


Seriously, though, that's too much money for a troll job, even for Cuban. I think it's probably true, but what I can't understand is why? Not that Manu isn't still a contributor, but there's only two reasons I can think of for a team to bring in anyone on a 1-year contract.

1. It's a really good player who wants to get more out of free agency the next year, and you think they could put you over the top this year.
2. You need a fill-in, but you aren't willing to risk offering the guy a long-term contract.

Manu is still a good sixth man, but Denver can't possibly think that adding him will put them over the top this year. (Same with Philly.)
And $18 Million is a hell of a lot to give to a fill-in, and still have to field a mediocre team.

So what's the payoff? Did someone really think he would help sell that many more tickets? Or do teams just have a shitload of money left, and since he's one of the best players unaccounted for, they might as well offer him a great big chunk of it?

If you could just disregard salary cap, the teams that could benefit from Manu the most would be those that made it deep into the playoffs. Cleveland would really benefit, because he would help them stay on top another year. Golden State is stacked, and fuck them anyway. But Toronto... yeah. But Denver and Philly? Seems to me they would still be shit teams, but with a better-led second unit. BFD. But not an $18M BFD. So I'm not even questioning whether he is worth it at this point. Just who is he really worth it to?

I think someone really gave him that offer. But it was stupid.

[Sean Cagney]

Seriously, though, that's too much money for a troll job, even for Cuban. I think it's probably true, but what I can't understand is why? Not that Manu isn't still a contributor, but there's only two reasons I can think of for a team to bring in anyone on a 1-year contract.

1. It's a really good player who wants to get more out of free agency the next year, and you think they could put you over the top this year.
2. You need a fill-in, but you aren't willing to risk offering the guy a long-term player.

Manu is still a good sixth man, but Denver can't possibly think that adding him will put them over the top this year. (Same with Philly.)
And $18 Million is a hell of a lot to give to a fill-in, and still have a mediocre team.

So what's the payoff? Did someone really think he would help sell that many more tickets? Or do teams just have a shitload of money left, and since he's one of the best players unaccounted for, they might as well offer him a great big chunk of it?

If you could just disregard salary cap, the teams that could benefit from Manu the most would be those that made it deep into the playoffs. Cleveland would really benefit, because he would help them stay on top another year. Golden State is stacked, and fuck them anyway. But Toronto... yeah. But Denver and Philly? Seems to me they would still be shit teams, but with a better-led second unit. BFD. But not an $18M BFD. So I'm not even questioning whether he is worth it at this point. Just who is he really worth it to?

I think someone really gave him that offer. But it was stupid.At his age and his production level now it was very stupid to offer that contract even though the cap did go up! I agree with you 100%. That is insane.

[T Park]

Stop the bullshit. Anyone giving him anywhere near that is a joke. I could see someone doing 13 Mill. Which is still OVERPAYING for a name that died years ago.



Believe what you want the sources on that are solid.

[Emperor]

I love Manu as much as anyone, but to give the guy $18 mil would be insane and i would not have blamed him for taking it.

[cutewizard]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/agent-manu-ginobili-turned-down-big-offer-to-return-to-spurs/

[TheGreatYacht]

Stop the bullshit. Anyone giving him anywhere near that is a joke. I could see someone doing 2 Mill. Which is still OVERPAYING for a name that died years ago.

[ElNono]

Crazy is a guy like Wade, who's been broken down for a while now, getting 2/$47m and star treatment, or even Joe Johnson getting 2/$22m... And sure, they're younger and play more, but they should really be bench guys at this point, taking what's been Manu's role for a long time now. In that context, it makes complete sense a team like the Sixers which has money to burn to throw around offers like that.

Gino will give the Spurs a discount (again), because being a Spur for life is more important for him, which should be something to appreciate, tbh... but the Spurs should also help themselves and Gino and do some bench revamping (which they're apparently doing with Dedmon, Bertrans, etc).

People need to adjust to these new cap realities, where no-name free agents like Allen Crabbe get 4/$75m offers, or a guy like Conley suddenly is the best paid player in the NBA...

[GSH]

The point is, the Sixers need to be developing the young guys they have. I know, I know... Manu would have been a "mentor to the young guys". But that's not usually done with a 1-year rental. And it's not usually done by paying a guy $18M. Even under the old cap that's what, $13.5M? You don't pay a guy $13.5M to be a mentor for one year. Hell, you give him $25M for three years, and tell him that the last two seasons he's going to be more of a coach/mentor on the bench most of the time, and you'll give him some DNP's to go spend time with his family. That way you have some continuity in your program, and you don't fuck up your cap space (and everyone else's). And as a bonus, you get a fiery bench guy who still has enough left in the tank to help in shorter minutes.

It's not about Manu, or what he can contribute. It's about teams just flailing around and tossing money like confetti. Just more proof that many, if not most teams, suffer from piss-poor management.

[Drom John]

538 Carmelos: 2016-2017

Manu worth $10.4M

Wade worth $10.5M

Johnson worth $1.4M

[SAGirl]

The point is, the Sixers need to be developing the young guys they have. I know, I know... Manu would have been a "mentor to the young guys". But that's not usually done with a 1-year rental. And it's not usually done by paying a guy $18M. Even under the old cap that's what, $13.5M? You don't pay a guy $13.5M to be a mentor for one year. Hell, you give him $25M for three years, and tell him that the last two seasons he's going to be more of a coach/mentor on the bench most of the time, and you'll give him some DNP's to go spend time with his family. That way you have some continuity in your program, and you don't fuck up your cap space (and everyone else's). And as a bonus, you get a fiery bench guy who still has enough left in the tank to help in shorter minutes.

It's not about Manu, or what he can contribute. It's about teams just flailing around and tossing money like confetti. Just more proof that many, if not most teams, suffer from piss-poor management.
Good points. It doesn't make sense. I can only think that the fact he's so loyal to the Spurs meant that to pry him away they had to throw stoopid money at him otherwise that wouldn't even consider it. I am sure a guy like Nowitzki was placed in a similar spot.

And a team like the 76ers needs to spend on somebody anyways, plus show the league they are legitimately trying to get better at this point. Manu most definitely have value for a team like that. They might have even offered him more years. It was Manu who probably was noncommittal over the one year.

Frankly I kind of think Manu anywhere else at this point would just retire after the one year. If he's in a losing team with a bunch of kids making mistakes all the time the joy to play is probably not the same. He's said it himself, that he would have retired already if he didn't enjoy the Spurs locker room camaraderie and on court chemistry so much.

[TD 21]

Crazy is a guy like Wade, who's been broken down for a while now, getting 2/$47m and star treatment, or even Joe Johnson getting 2/$22m... And sure, they're younger and play more, but they should really be bench guys at this point, taking what's been Manu's role for a long time now. In that context, it makes complete sense a team like the Sixers which has money to burn to throw around offers like that.

Gino will give the Spurs a discount (again), because being a Spur for life is more important for him, which should be something to appreciate, tbh... but the Spurs should also help themselves and Gino and do some bench revamping (which they're apparently doing with Dedmon, Bertrans, etc).

People need to adjust to these new cap realities, where no-name free agents like Allen Crabbe get 4/$75m offers, or a guy like Conley suddenly is the best paid player in the NBA...

Johnson should and will come off the bench, but :lmao at thinking Wade should. He proved in the playoffs that, at his best, he's still the second best shooting guard in the league.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

And then the spinning acrobatic layup + charge combo at the end of that one game in Denver in the 2011 season... we didn't win the ship that year, but we had the #1 record in the west and that was a good time

I'm pretty sure I was at the game. Wasn't Tim hurt and the Spurs narrowly lost that game?

[Seventyniner]

Not at all. Look up the rules concerning the salary cap floor and then look at Philly's current payroll. Signing Manu for 18M wouldn't change the team's net salary expenditures for 2016-17.

But that money would have been divided amongst the rest of the roster, so signing Manu for that amount would take money directly out of the pockets of the rest of the roster. Philly's management doesn't seem to care about the players' feelings anyway, but that contract would have been a giant middle finger on top of the turd sundae. It's not like Manu would do any appreciable good to the franchise in just one season.

[slick'81]

Exactly just because a team can doesnt mean they should

[ElNono]

$13m is a perfectly sane and reasonable amount for him, tbh...

[Mel_13]

But that money would have been divided amongst the rest of the roster, so signing Manu for that amount would take money directly out of the pockets of the rest of the roster. Philly's management doesn't seem to care about the players' feelings anyway, but that contract would have been a giant middle finger on top of the turd sundae. It's not like Manu would do any appreciable good to the franchise in just one season.

Hi, Seventyniner. Long time, no talk.

Refer back to the title and OP of this thread. The purpose of this little thought exercise, as I understand it, is to assume that timvp's report of an 18M offer is true and to guess which NBA team made the offer. Of the NBA teams with sufficient remaining cap space to even make such an offer, I find that the case for Philly is the most persuasive for the reasons already stated. Objections as strong, or stronger, than the ones you stated, can be lodged against of the other guesses submitted to this point.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

I'm pretty sure I was at the game. Wasn't Tim hurt and the Spurs narrowly lost that game?

Spurs won that game by 1 point. Carmelo bulldozed into Manu at the buzzer for a driving layup but the call was an offensive foul against Melo (Manu drew the charge)... game over.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Spurs won that game by 1 point. Carmelo bulldozed into Manu at the buzzer for a driving layup but the call was an offensive foul against Melo (Manu drew the charge)... game over.

Ah, I remember that game. All the controversy. I wasn't at that one. Great game though! Everyone was pissed because refs never call fouls that late in a game. Everyone was crying to let them play.

[Seventyniner]

Hi, Seventyniner. Long time, no talk.

Refer back to the title and OP of this thread. The purpose of this little thought exercise, as I understand it, is to assume that timvp's report of an 18M offer is true and to guess which NBA team made the offer. Of the NBA teams with sufficient remaining cap space to even make such an offer, I find that the case for Philly is the most persuasive for the reasons already stated. Objections as strong, or stronger, than the ones you stated, can be lodged against of the other guesses submitted to this point.

Good to see you back here Mel. :toast

I see your point. Philly doesn't make a world of sense, but other teams make even less sense. I hadn't looked at the big picture.

An offer like that is definitely not out of the Hinkie playbook, but with him gone anything is possible.

[Mel_13]

Good to see you back here Mel. :toast

I see your point. Philly doesn't make a world of sense, but other teams make even less sense. I hadn't looked at the big picture.

An offer like that is definitely not out of the Hinkie playbook, but with him gone anything is possible.

:bobo

[ElNono]

Spurs won that game by 1 point. Carmelo bulldozed into Manu at the buzzer for a driving layup but the call was an offensive foul against Melo (Manu drew the charge)... game over.

Manu also made the previous basket to put us up by 1, some wicked layup...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_aMVGjfxgU

Here's a shitty quality recap of that game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydM9p6GSZww

[GSH]

Over the last 5 seasons, Manu has averaged about 22 minutes per game, and 58 games per season.
Last year, Manu averaged 19.6 minutes per game, and he played 58 games.
So Manu plays about 50% as much as a player who gets 31 minutes, and plays 74 games.
So an $18M contract for Manu would have been the equivalent of $36M for a starter.
Kevin Durant just signed for $27M per year - only 50% more than Manu allegedly got offered.
Durant played 2.3X as many minutes as Manu last year, but scored right at 4X as many points, brought down 4X as many rebounds, and had over 4X as many FTA's.

Manu's numbers still look pretty good, as long as he's playing 20 minutes a night, and 58 games a season. Try and play him 31 minutes a night, like a typical starter, and his production would go to shit in those later minutes because he'd be worn out. And he wouldn't last more than 40 games.

Manu is a half-time player at this point. It would take two if him to equal the minutes and production of one starter. So an $18M salary for Manu is the equivalent of $36M per year for a good starter - but not a starter of Durant's caliber, because he had WAY more than twice Manu's numbers.

So, no... an $18M salary for Manu is not perfectly reasonable. Even though Manu is still a very capable player in limited minutes, that would have been the single most idiotic contract of this whole crazy off-season. I know it got printed in newspapers, and it's probably true that he got that offer. But if you want to figure out who it was from, the easiest way is probably to try and figure out who has the absolute stupidest FO. That may be another argument in favor of Philly.

[Mel_13]

76ers force Spurs to pay for Manu Ginobili

https://sports.yahoo.com/video/76ers-force-spurs-pay-manu-222719167.html

[DPG21920]

Mel still got it

[Mel_13]

:hat

[DPG21920]

The power of deductive reasoning

[Seventyniner]

Shows how dumb the Philly management is imo. If they end up under the salary floor, which is likely, the money they would have given Manu goes to the rest of the roster. Would they really take money away from the rest of their players just to give it to Manu for one year? That would be a giant fuck you to their players.

[ElNono]

Mel knows things n' stuff :tu

[Blackjack]

Mel_13

The Tim Duncan of this board.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Shows how dumb the Philly management is imo. If they end up under the salary floor, which is likely, the money they would have given Manu goes to the rest of the roster. Would they really take money away from the rest of their players just to give it to Manu for one year? That would be a giant fuck you to their players.

Didn't stop Blazers from trading for Varejao at the trade deadline. Then waiving and stretching him, having a cap hit all the way to 2021.

Can't imagine the NBA, the other owners and the agents being happy with teams who purposely stay way below the salary floor and it will probably be addressed in the next CBA.

[Mnky]

All these professional couch GMs. :lol

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Manu also made the previous basket to put us up by 1, some wicked layup...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_aMVGjfxgU

Here's a shitty quality recap of that game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydM9p6GSZww
McDyess was such a bum for us that season. Not quite DWorst status, but still...

[tholdren]

but pop played him religiously