Tim Duncan co-wrote a research paper about Kobe at Wake Forest

[Clipper Nation]

752542912697761792

[Thread]

They were selling your shit.

[Killakobe81]

752542912697761792

That is actually pretty cool ...
It's probably part of why he was such a great team-mate and leader

[Thread]

That is actually pretty cool ...
It's probably part of why he was such a great team-mate and leader

Yeah, he hid his true self and attendant weaknesses, his fandom (down & upstairs), Media (to this fucking day) chronologically refuse to indict him on these truths and weaknesses. They only want to pinpoint his strengths. In their estimation Tim Duncan cannot withstand the truth of his life.

That's where a fellow like me steps in and badgers the countryside. It's what I did here in this city and what I do here on this ground.

I have to. I know nary other way.

- Dale

[ambchang]

Yeah, he hid his true self and attendant weaknesses, his fandom (down & upstairs), Media (to this fucking day) chronologically refuse to indict him on these truths and weaknesses. They only want to pinpoint his strengths. In their estimation Tim Duncan cannot withstand the truth of his life.

That's where a fellow like me steps in and badgers the countryside. It's what I did here in this city and what I do here on this ground.

I have to. I know nary other way.

- Dale

But they sold Spurs gear!!!!!!!!!

[Killakobe81]

Yeah, he hid his true self and attendant weaknesses, his fandom (down & upstairs), Media (to this fucking day) chronologically refuse to indict him on these truths and weaknesses. They only want to pinpoint his strengths. In their estimation Tim Duncan cannot withstand the truth of his life.

That's where a fellow like me steps in and badgers the countryside. It's what I did here in this city and what I do here on this ground.

I have to. I know nary other way.

- Dale

I do think there is some inherent media bias in the Kobe vs. duncan debates in the media
That being said:

1. Kobe brought that on himself by being an asshole
2. the metric lovers almost all favor Duncan
3. yet Kobe is insanely more popular with the general fan her and abroad despite having wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more haters.

Of course duncan has flaws so did jordan but when you play nice with the media they will gloss over them.
either way he is a great player ... but this notion that duncan is head and shoulders better is bullshit.
He may be better but it's close.
And even though some Laker fans wont admit it he has a case over Kobe ...

[Thread]

I do think there is some inherent media bias in the Kobe vs. duncan debates in the media
That being said:

1. Kobe brought that on himself by being an asshole
2. the metric lovers almost all favor Duncan
3. yet Kobe is insanely more popular with the general fan her and abroad despite having wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more haters.

Of course duncan has flaws so did jordan but when you play nice with the media they will gloss over them.
either way he is a great player ... but this notion that duncan is head and shoulders better is bullshit.
He may be better but it's close.
And even though some Laker fans wont admit it he has a case over Kobe ...

They'll be no peace until Duncan's marriage & divorce & '13 are put up in the public arena. I want his ass dragged thru the fleet.

He can stand the gaffe.

[ambchang]

I do think there is some inherent media bias in the Kobe vs. duncan debates in the media
That being said:

1. Kobe brought that on himself by being an asshole
2. the metric lovers almost all favor Duncan
3. yet Kobe is insanely more popular with the general fan her and abroad despite having wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more haters.

Of course duncan has flaws so did jordan but when you play nice with the media they will gloss over them.
either way he is a great player ... but this notion that duncan is head and shoulders better is bullshit.
He may be better but it's close.
And even though some Laker fans wont admit it he has a case over Kobe ...

Depends how you define heads and shoulders.

Duncan is above Moses, Hakeem and Shaq, likely in the Magic Bird tier. Kareem and Jordan are a tier above. Lebron has a case for either being in the Magic/Bird/Duncan tier, or in the Shaq/Hakeem/Moses tier.

Kobe has a case with the Hakeem, Shaq and Moses, but more appropriate along with the West, Oscar, Dirk, Robinson group.

[Killakobe81]

Depends how you define heads and shoulders.

Duncan is above Moses, Hakeem and Shaq, likely in the Magic Bird tier. Kareem and Jordan are a tier above. Lebron has a case for either being in the Magic/Bird/Duncan tier, or in the Shaq/Hakeem/Moses tier.

Kobe has a case with the Hakeem, Shaq and Moses, but more appropriate along with the West, Oscar, Dirk, Robinson group.

Wont do that today, Amb.
But what you are saying is not crazy.
Just like me saying he is on a similar tier with duncan.
all of this is subjective anyway and even if you metrics you cant find any consistency on who the greatest truly is.

Duncan is in my all time top 5 but Kobe is not because of jordan.
so even in my personal rankings duncan is above Kobe ...
But duncan is probably at the bottom of my 5 while Kobe is at the top of my second 5

1. MJ (SG)
2. Kareem (C)
3. Magic (PG)
4. Duncan (PF
5. LeBron (SF)

2nd team

1. Kobe (SG)
2. Shaq (C)
3. Bird (SF)
4. Isiah (PG)
5. Dirk (PF)

Dirk was my toughest call ...considered KG, Chuck, Malone. but yes rings do matter and his game aged better than the rest ...

IF steph can have afew more elite seasons he may bump off Isiah

[Killakobe81]

and if Lebron gets to 4 he jumps magic heck he might already be over Magic which is tough for me to swallow because he is my all time favorite but a case can be made for both Lebron and Duncan at #3 so I left Magic there for now. Maybe Lebron makes it all moot.

[Stalin]

Damn son, you grossly overrate Kobe, the guy as alpha missed the playoffs in his prime, got carried by Shaq Daddy to three titles, and needed one of greatest frontlines in NBA history just to counter his chucking for his last two where he was co-alpha at BEST...:lmao:lmao

[Koolaid_Man]

752542912697761792


Interesting he started off with the word blow hard...what a complete faggot :lol

[DPG21920]

I do think there is some inherent media bias in the Kobe vs. duncan debates in the media
That being said:

1. Kobe brought that on himself by being an asshole
2. the metric lovers almost all favor Duncan
3. yet Kobe is insanely more popular with the general fan her and abroad despite having wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more haters.

Of course duncan has flaws so did jordan but when you play nice with the media they will gloss over them.
either way he is a great player ... but this notion that duncan is head and shoulders better is bullshit.
He may be better but it's close.
And even though some Laker fans wont admit it he has a case over Kobe ...

:lmao has a case. Man, I thought you were better than that.

The reason the "metric lovers" (aka the educated) like Tim over Kobe is because it's obvious. Just because Kobe was one of the greatest marketers in all of sports does not change the on-court stuff.

It's not close. There is no argument. Tim was better than Kobe. That doesn't mean Kobe sucked either. Kobe is a top 15 player (I'd say 10-12).

[Koolaid_Man]

That faggot couldn't even dribble a ball up court without getting ripped....by default he can't be better than Kobe :lol real talk .....Tammy had it easy out there tbh

[Donkeybong]

http://atlantadailyworld.com/2014/10/04/tim-duncan-is-gay-says-estranged-wife/ (http://atlantadailyworld.com/2014/10/04/tim-duncan-is-gay-says-estranged-wife/)

"Well, did you hear there's a natural order? That those most deserving will end up with the most? That the cream cannot help but rise up to the top? Well, I say, 'Shit floats.' If you thought things had changed, friend, you'd better think again. Bluntly put, in the fewest of words: C*nts are still running the world. C*nts are still running the world..."


Danny Green, in an interview with New York based radio station 105.1, said “Timmy is Tim. I’m not going to look at him any differently. He’s my teammate regardless of his sexual preferences.”

[140]

That faggot couldn't even dribble a ball up court without getting ripped....by default he can't be better than Kobe :lol real talk .....Tammy had it easy out there tbh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_o5YIXzF1c

:wakeup

[Koolaid_Man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_o5YIXzF1c

:wakeup

Anyone can find a whole in the defense...point is by default he can't handle the rock...he can't orchestrate an offense like Kobe can....all he can do is park that gay ass in the paint...

[Bynumite]

Co-wrote?

More like stood to the side while someone else wrote the paper. Much like the same dynamic he had with Amy while she was riding her be@ner personal trainer.

[DPG21920]

Man, Laker fans sure are homophobic. Really odd considering Magic is one of the best players of all time and Kobe has a bunch of rumors (more than Tim IIRC - I think Kobe has a gay sex tape).

Really odd. You would think Laker fans would be the most understanding and not care about that stuff especially since it doesn't matter and has no impact on the court.

[Killakobe81]

:lmao has a case. Man, I thought you were better than that.

The reason the "metric lovers" (aka the educated) like Tim over Kobe is because it's obvious. Just because Kobe was one of the greatest marketers in all of sports does not change the on-court stuff.

It's not close. There is no argument. Tim was better than Kobe. That doesn't mean Kobe sucked either. Kobe is a top 15 player (I'd say 10-12).

I never said I was making that case anymore.
I said a case can be made.
A case can be made for Lebron over jordan (CN made it right after the finals) but it would be a flimsy one at this point ...

BTW I wasnt arguing against the data ... that is part of why I conceded the argument to Amb last year. t
That, plus 5 plus the Achilles pretty much ended it for me.
Only thing I argue is that it's closer tha y'all will admit.

you disagree? that is shocking. :wakeup

[DPG21920]

I do disagree it was "closer than people admit". That is a way for Kobe fans (IMO) to try and keep Kobe close to Duncan. I mean, in the big scheme of things if you want to say a top 5-7 player is close to a top 10-12 player, OK, but when you actually look at things, I don't think there is really an argument to be made.

Like I said, that does not mean that Kobe was bad or anything - still a phenomenal player. There is just no sound argument to be made other than marketing that Kobe was better than Tim so I don't think it makes sense to call it close when it's a pretty clear cut winner.

[Killakobe81]

I do disagree it was "closer than people admit". That is a way for Kobe fans (IMO) to try and keep Kobe close to Duncan. I mean, in the big scheme of things if you want to say a top 5-7 player is close to a top 10-12 player, OK, but when you actually look at things, I don't think there is really an argument to be made.

Like I said, that does not mean that Kobe was bad or anything - still a phenomenal player. There is just no sound argument to be made other than marketing that Kobe was better than Tim so I don't think it makes sense to call it close when it's a pretty clear cut winner.

I have no interest in this today but you guys keep sucking me back in.
This is not something you can convince me on.
Upstairs was just bitching about how Wilbon (uggh I hate that guy) made the argument and gave Kobe the edge.
this is Duncan's day.
I think they are closer than you do but both are in my top 10.
Somewhere between 5-7

Just enjoy a great career of the GOAT PF ...

[Killakobe81]

I do disagree it was "closer than people admit". That is a way for Kobe fans (IMO) to try and keep Kobe close to Duncan. I mean, in the big scheme of things if you want to say a top 5-7 player is close to a top 10-12 player, OK, but when you actually look at things, I don't think there is really an argument to be made.

Like I said, that does not mean that Kobe was bad or anything - still a phenomenal player. There is just no sound argument to be made other than marketing that Kobe was better than Tim so I don't think it makes sense to call it close when it's a pretty clear cut winner.

Oh and Laker fans dont want to "keep it close" go to LG most say it's clearly Kobe with excuses/reasons being the FO, duncan always had Pop we lost Phil and Jerry west etc.

So glad I am not in that "camp" anymore.

[Benoit]

duncan cant even get a farewell tour because no one would miss him anyway lmao

[Benoit]

Why Duncan is the most influential player of his timehttp://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16989399/why-tim-duncan-most-influential-player?sf30742876=1

what the fuck is this shit LMAO. I aint ever seen another big man shoot bank shots for a living

[Benoit]

whose more influential: the guy who inspired durant, paul george, lillard or the guy who drew record low ratings for the finals??

[HarlemHeat37]

whose more influential: the guy who inspired durant, paul george, lillard or the guy who drew record low ratings for the finals??

:lol

[timtonymanu]

whose more influential: the guy who inspired durant, paul george, lillard or the guy who drew record low ratings for the finals??

Bruh, I'm no troll expert. But man your material is pretty stale any time I read it.

[Clipper Nation]

Why Duncan is the most influential player of his time

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16989399/why-tim-duncan-most-influential-player?sf30742876=1

what the fuck is this shit LMAO. I aint ever seen another big man shoot bank shots for a living
Blake has been banking it in from the right baseline for years, tbh. Believe it or not, there are other shots in basketball besides playground circus threes that only go in against injured teams and regular-season defenses.

[Phillip]

Why Duncan is the most influential player of his time

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16989399/why-tim-duncan-most-influential-player?sf30742876=1

what the fuck is this shit LMAO. I aint ever seen another big man shoot bank shots for a living

I'm as big of a Timmy fan as anyone, but this is stupid. Honestly, he isn't even the most influential player at his position. Dirk had a far bigger influence on the game than Timmy ever did. Most accomplished? Sure. Most respected? Absolutely. But certainly not most influential.

[Koolaid_Man]

I'm as big of a Timmy fan as anyone, but this is stupid. Honestly, he isn't even the most influential player at his position. Dirk had a far bigger influence on the game than Timmy ever did. Most accomplished? Sure. Most respected? Absolutely. But certainly not most influential.


I'm pretty sure Tammy liked that bank shot for some gay ass reason....he loved shots off the ass...I meant glass :lol

[ambchang]

Wont do that today, Amb.
But what you are saying is not crazy.
Just like me saying he is on a similar tier with duncan.
all of this is subjective anyway and even if you metrics you cant find any consistency on who the greatest truly is.

Duncan is in my all time top 5 but Kobe is not because of jordan.
so even in my personal rankings duncan is above Kobe ...
But duncan is probably at the bottom of my 5 while Kobe is at the top of my second 5

1. MJ (SG)
2. Kareem (C)
3. Magic (PG)
4. Duncan (PF
5. LeBron (SF)

2nd team

1. Kobe (SG)
2. Shaq (C)
3. Bird (SF)
4. Isiah (PG)
5. Dirk (PF)

Dirk was my toughest call ...considered KG, Chuck, Malone. but yes rings do matter and his game aged better than the rest ...

IF steph can have afew more elite seasons he may bump off Isiah

But a lot of guys are left out because of positions. Hakeem, Moses, didn't make it purely because shaq and Kareem were also centres. Then there are the old timers like Russell, wilt, big o who deserves at least a mention.

[Koolaid_Man]

Just found out Russell Westbrook had a higher GPA than Tammy while in college. 3.9 > 3.8

Go Russ :lol

[lefty]

Just found out Russell Westbrook had a higher GPA than Tammy while in college. 3.9 > 3.8

Go Russ :lol

What was Kobe's GPA in college?


Can't find it tbh

[Thread]

What was Kobe's GPA in college?


Can't find it tbh

Thank Christ. Never give it away. Not one fucking day.

[Killakobe81]

I'm as big of a Timmy fan as anyone, but this is stupid. Honestly, he isn't even the most influential player at his position. Dirk had a far bigger influence on the game than Timmy ever did. Most accomplished? Sure. Most respected? Absolutely. But certainly not most influential.

That's a good point.
I do buy duncan as the star of teh Spurs has helped lead a shift to a focus on team culture.
But when you talk about on the court, dirk as the best stretch 4 and small ball center is probably the pioneer for Draymond and even when the Cavs have used Lebron at PF or OKC using durant there too. heck Durant and Kobe (even Lebron) have implemented the one legged fade.
That is part of why I chose Dirk over KG as my all time 2nd best PF ...the modern NBA is a product of Nellie -ball ...and he nurtured Dirk ...which led to suns SSOL ...which led to Spurs pace and space ...which led to State's Lineup of death.

[Killakobe81]

But a lot of guys are left out because of positions. Hakeem, Moses, didn't make it purely because shaq and Kareem were also centres. Then there are the old timers like Russell, wilt, big o who deserves at least a mention.

But that is what makes my list unique.

1. I dont rate guys I never saw ...
2. there is only one spot at each position. Sure this means it leaves out someone but we are talking the best of the best.
3. even using my way honestly who is gonna be moved off that top? Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Lebron and Duncan all have solid cases as top 5 players.
Maybe I could put shaq over duncan or Bird over LeBron or cheat and move Lebron to PF so I can keep Bird and lose duncan ...but I chose the 5 best at each position.

[Koolaid_Man]

But that is what makes my list unique.

1. I dont rate guys I never saw ...
2. there is only one spot at each position. Sure this means it leaves out someone but we are talking the best of the best.
3. even using my way honestly who is gonna be moved off that top? Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Lebron and Duncan all have solid cases as top 5 players.
Maybe I could put shaq over duncan or Bird over LeBron or cheat and move Lebron to PF so I can keep Bird and lose duncan ...but I chose the 5 best at each position.

I would take KG over Duncan any day...KG was a better player though not on the best teams....besides he fucking bitch slapped that phaggot upside his head like he was a little hoe...only pussies and phagits allow themselves to be treated in such a way....and then he turns around and loses his white bitch to a fucking illegal Mexican

[Killakobe81]

I would take KG over Duncan any day...KG was a better player though not on the best teams....besides he fucking bitch slapped that phaggot upside his head like he was a little hoe...only pussies and phagits allow themselves to be treated in such a way....and then he turns around and loses his white bitch to a fucking illegal Mexican

shit happens.
David west punked dirk, tapped his face ..
Dirk got punked but in the end he has a ring and west is still chasing one.
I do like my bigs to be more aggressive like Zo, KG shaq ...but tough to argue KG over duncan tbh ...

[Koolaid_Man]

shit happens.
David west punked dirk, tapped his face ..
Dirk got punked but in the end he has a ring and west is still chasing one.
I do like my bigs to be more aggressive like Zo, KG shaq ...but tough to argue KG over duncan tbh ...

Why because of rings? You're also the same guy that foolishly argues Tammy over Kobe :lol when Kobe didn't win a ring on a shortened season and he went back to back multiple times; 3 peated... and was the first to 5 rings..and played hands down the hardest most atheletic and physically challenging position in all of basketball....was asked to defend the opposing teams best player, orchestrate the offense and score...are you insane? Not only has 2 gold medals but also didnt quit on his country....and somehow you think Duncan based on pure basketball is a fundamentally more sound and better player because he plays closer to the basket.. Again I ask the question.. Are you insane...is there something not computing in your head ? :lol

[Killakobe81]

Why because of rings? You're also the same guy that foolishly argues Tammy over Kobe :lol when Kobe didn't win a ring on a shortened season and he went back to back multiple times; 3 peated... and was the first to 5 rings..and played hands down the hardest most atheletic and physically challenging position in all of basketball....was asked to defend the opposing teams best player, orchestrate the offense and score...are you insane? Not only has 2 gold medals but also didnt quit on his country....and somehow you think Duncan based on pure basketball is a fundamentally more sound and better player because he plays closer to the basket.. Again I ask the question.. Are you insane...is there something not computing in your head ? :lol

No I aint arguing all-around skill or anything like that.
At the peak of both I would take Kobe.
But let's be honest Kool ...

We have the 2004 finals ...
We have the 2008 Finals ...
Have the game 7 vs. Phoenix ...

Not that Tim doesnt have blemishes like the Olympics or "8" on his resume ...
But I thought it was close with Kobe ahead until the achilles happened.
Then we have advanced metrics and of course "5"or the 2nd 5th ...

You know me and you know my history how many times did I argue this shit with Amb, Cry, Deeps and all the randoms?
I said I would revisit it someday and maybe right now because the 2nd 5th happened post Achilles maybe recent bias is messing with me.

but for now I have duncan with a slight edge on Kobe.
We will see if that changes down the road.

[ambchang]

But that is what makes my list unique.

1. I dont rate guys I never saw ...
2. there is only one spot at each position. Sure this means it leaves out someone but we are talking the best of the best.
3. even using my way honestly who is gonna be moved off that top? Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Lebron and Duncan all have solid cases as top 5 players.
Maybe I could put shaq over duncan or Bird over LeBron or cheat and move Lebron to PF so I can keep Bird and lose duncan ...but I chose the 5 best at each position.

My list is pretty consistent through the years

Jordan
Kareem
Magic/Bird/Duncan (I moved Duncan up from previous years, more I look up his numbers, the more impressive they were)
Lebron (moved up with the 2016 run, can make a case for Magic/Bird/Duncan, and probably should be there)
Shaq/Hakeem/Moses
Kobe/Isiah/Dr J
Dirk/Garnett (Dirk can be in the Isiah/Kobe/Dr J class as well)
Robinson/Stockton/Barkley/McHale/Pierce (Pierce is really underrated, and by me previously)
Pedo/Pippen/Drexler/MVPau

The old timers, if you want to count them:
Wilt/Russell will be in the Lebron slot
West/Big O will be int he Kobe/Isiah/Dr J slot

[ambchang]

shit happens.
David west punked dirk, tapped his face ..
Dirk got punked but in the end he has a ring and west is still chasing one.
I do like my bigs to be more aggressive like Zo, KG shaq ...but tough to argue KG over duncan tbh ...

Surprised you forgot the ending of that slap. Duncan turned around, stared down KG, and KG backed off like a pup. Sure you find that video on youtube, but it was likely done by guys like CaprisunMan to cut off the ending.

As for KG being on worse teams, he was the reason for that. He can't carry an offense of a title team. KG isn't even Robinson level and he only got what he got because he played in the era of mobile bigs (later on in his career). He was ranked higher than Robinson on my list only because of circumstances. Put them in the same era and either Robinson move way up the list, or Garnett moves down.

[ambchang]

Why because of rings? You're also the same guy that foolishly argues Tammy over Kobe :lol when Kobe didn't win a ring on a shortened season and he went back to back multiple times; 3 peated... and was the first to 5 rings..and played hands down the hardest most atheletic and physically challenging position in all of basketball....was asked to defend the opposing teams best player, orchestrate the offense and score...are you insane? Not only has 2 gold medals but also didnt quit on his country....and somehow you think Duncan based on pure basketball is a fundamentally more sound and better player because he plays closer to the basket.. Again I ask the question.. Are you insane...is there something not computing in your head ? :lol

That explains why there were so many great SG in the all-time list. There's Jordan ... wait, who's next? Is it Kobe or West? One is a career 2nd fiddle and the other one a career loser. :rofl, the SG position has always sucked in basketball. Kobe had to go up again greats like :cry Carter, Iverson, Pierce, TMac :cry, got punked by Pierce in the finals and had to get MVPau to save his butt. The only SG Kobe outplayed in the finals was ..... Hedo! Couldn't even take Tayshaun Prince, Austin Croshere or Kerry Kittles, :lol

Top 20 player Kobe played directly against in his career: Jordan
Top 20 player Duncan played directly against in his career: Shaq, KG, Dirk, Pedo, way past his prime Hakeem, way past his prime Barkley

[ambchang]

No I aint arguing all-around skill or anything like that.
At the peak of both I would take Kobe.
But let's be honest Kool ...

We have the 2004 finals ...
We have the 2008 Finals ...
Have the game 7 vs. Phoenix ...

Not that Tim doesnt have blemishes like the Olympics or "8" on his resume ...
But I thought it was close with Kobe ahead until the achilles happened.
Then we have advanced metrics and of course "5"or the 2nd 5th ...

You know me and you know my history how many times did I argue this shit with Amb, Cry, Deeps and all the randoms?
I said I would revisit it someday and maybe right now because the 2nd 5th happened post Achilles maybe recent bias is messing with me.

but for now I have duncan with a slight edge on Kobe.
We will see if that changes down the road.

What was Kobe's peak? Was it 2008? 2005? 2002? Bring it on, let's compare that to Duncan's prime.

[Killakobe81]

What was Kobe's peak? Was it 2008? 2005? 2002? Bring it on, let's compare that to Duncan's prime.

Nope.
I dont want to argue.
I already have Duncan with the clear but slighter than most edge.
Argue with Kool if you want.
I dont want to discuss your favorite player with you it's a disrespect to tim right now.

[ambchang]

Nope.
I dont want to argue.
I already have Duncan with the clear but slighter than most edge.
Argue with Kool if you want.
I dont want to discuss your favorite player with you it's a disrespect to tim right now.

Duncan's not my favourite, I actually like Robinson, Elliott and Manu more than Duncan. he was the greatest who played for my favourite sports team though.

[Killakobe81]

Duncan's not my favourite, I actually like Robinson, Elliott and Manu more than Duncan. he was the greatest who played for my favourite sports team though.

I was talking about Kobe (sarcastically) ..dont be obtuse. :lol

[ambchang]

I was talking about Kobe (sarcastically) ..dont be obtuse. :lol

I actually thought you meant Duncan.

Kobe is the one I talk about most because there is just so much misinformation out there.

I can see me doing the same against Lebron (when he would be somehow GOAT over Jordan and Kareem), or Curry (when people put him in the top 10).

[Splits]

What was Kobe's peak? Was it 2008? 2005? 2002? Bring it on, let's compare that to Duncan's prime.


Nope.
I dont want to argue.
I already have Duncan with the clear but slighter than most edge.
Argue with Kool if you want.
I dont want to discuss your favorite player with you it's a disrespect to tim right now.

Oh really?



Killakobe81
Star Player
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 1080




http://forums.lakersground.net/templates/uberSTYLE/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?p=6910992#6910992)Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:00 am Post subject:








yinoma2001 wrote:




venturalakersfan wrote:


Two great players, we were lucky to have watched them play.




I think you and I were probably two of the more "open" Duncan "fans" here. I have nothing but respect for the guy. One of my fave players all time, and I always dreamed we'd find a way to get him here. http://forums.lakersground.net/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif




No offense to Shaq lovers but back in 99 ...
I argued for a trade of Shaq for Tim straight up.
I knew he had better posy game and would age better.
He would have been nuts in the triangle too when he had that bank shot.
I think you can make a case for both guys ...i think Kobe at his peak was greater but Duncan was more consistent.

Its close but maybe Duncan desetves the edge .. it doesnt take anything away from either guy. Same if you prefer Kobe.

[ambchang]

Oh really?



Killakobe81
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Posts: 1080




http://forums.lakersground.net/templates/uberSTYLE/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?p=6910992#6910992)Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:00 am Post subject:








yinoma2001 wrote:




venturalakersfan wrote:


Two great players, we were lucky to have watched them play.




I think you and I were probably two of the more "open" Duncan "fans" here. I have nothing but respect for the guy. One of my fave players all time, and I always dreamed we'd find a way to get him here. http://forums.lakersground.net/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif




No offense to Shaq lovers but back in 99 ...
I argued for a trade of Shaq for Tim straight up.
I knew he had better posy game and would age better.
He would have been nuts in the triangle too when he had that bank shot.
I think you can make a case for both guys ...i think Kobe at his peak was greater but Duncan was more consistent.

Its close but maybe Duncan desetves the edge .. it doesnt take anything away from either guy. Same if you prefer Kobe.






Saying Kobe had a higher peak is straight out retarded. None of the stats or even team accomplishments speak to that. Kobes peak led to missed playoffs and his highest ws, vorp, or bpm can't even compare to Duncan's.

[Splits]

Saying Kobe had a higher peak is straight out retarded. None of the stats or even team accomplishments speak to that. Kobes peak led to missed playoffs and his highest ws, vorp, or bpm can't even compare to Duncan's.

Agree. But even worse is the hypocrisy of saying one thing on LG and another on ST.

[offset formation]

Just found out Russell Westbrook had a higher GPA than Tammy while in college. 3.9 > 3.8

Go Russ :lol

Just found out Timmy ranged 5 times. Westbrook...0

[DAF86]

Co-wrote?

More like stood to the side while someone else wrote the paper. Much like the same dynamic he had with Amy while she was riding her be@ner personal trainer.

Sounds like someone I know, tbh. :lol

[Thread]

Just found out Timmy ranged 5 times. Westbrook...0

He rang 6 times. Just has the 2nd 5th to show for it.

[DAF86]

I'm as big of a Timmy fan as anyone, but this is stupid. Honestly, he isn't even the most influential player at his position. Dirk had a far bigger influence on the game than Timmy ever did. Most accomplished? Sure. Most respected? Absolutely. But certainly not most influential.

In which way was Dirk more influential?

All this new trend we are seeing now about stars resigning money to play in competitive teams started with Tim Duncan and the Spurs. What has Dirk done to influence the NBA more than that?

[Kawhitstorm]

Dirk was my toughest call ...considered KG, Chuck, Malone. but yes rings do matter and his game aged better than the rest ...

KG's 2003-04 season is the best of the decade for a PF & KG was also the best player in the 2008 postseason where he was better than 2011 Dirk by basically every metric that account for overall performance.

[Kawhitstorm]

shit happens.
David west punked dirk, tapped his face ..
Dirk got punked but in the end he has a ring and west is still chasing one.
I do like my bigs to be more aggressive like Zo, KG shaq ...but tough to argue KG over duncan tbh ...

KG was better than Tim in the REGULAR SEASON just like how Admiral was better than Hakeem in the regular season but the postseason is a different animal.:lol

[Killakobe81]

Oh really?



Killakobe81
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http://forums.lakersground.net/templates/uberSTYLE/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?p=6910992#6910992)Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:00 am Post subject:








yinoma2001 wrote:




venturalakersfan wrote:


Two great players, we were lucky to have watched them play.




I think you and I were probably two of the more "open" Duncan "fans" here. I have nothing but respect for the guy. One of my fave players all time, and I always dreamed we'd find a way to get him here. http://forums.lakersground.net/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif




No offense to Shaq lovers but back in 99 ...
I argued for a trade of Shaq for Tim straight up.
I knew he had better posy game and would age better.
He would have been nuts in the triangle too when he had that bank shot.
I think you can make a case for both guys ...i think Kobe at his peak was greater but Duncan was more consistent.

Its close but maybe Duncan desetves the edge .. it doesnt take anything away from either guy. Same if you prefer Kobe.






What does that prove?
I gave Duncan the edge in both places career wise ...
If you keep reading on to the quote from LG you posted ...it ends with me on a Lakers site saying that Duncan should get the edge over Kobe? How does that make a hypocrite dumbass?

Nicca trying to act like he caught me in a lie when many on LG would call me a traitor for dat shit ...

[Kawhitstorm]

In which way was Dirk more influential?

He's probably talking about "Stretch 4s" but I've yet to see another Dirk since he came into the league other than Dominos shooting one legged fadeaways.:lol (Cliff Robinson/Horry were more influential than Dirk as far as hybrid forwards who can stretch the floor)

[Killakobe81]

Agree. But even worse is the hypocrisy of saying one thing on LG and another on ST.

Where is the difference?
I didnt say anything different dumbass
Peak is a different argument ...or can you not read?

[Killakobe81]

Saying Kobe had a higher peak is straight out retarded. None of the stats or even team accomplishments speak to that. Kobes peak led to missed playoffs and his highest ws, vorp, or bpm can't even compare to Duncan's.

Wasnt about metrics that is just my opinion same as me picking peak shaq or Hakeem over Duncan

[DAF86]

He's probably talking about "Stretch 4s" but I've yet to see another Dirk since he came into the league other than Dominos shooting one legged fadeaways.:lol (Cliff Robinson/Horry were more influential than Dirk as far as hybrid forwards who can stretch the floor)

Yeah, I was waiting for that answer to shit on it.

[Kawhitstorm]

A case can be made for Lebron over jordan (CN made it right after the finals) but it would be a flimsy one at this point ...


Jordan still has he highest career WS/48 in postseason history by a decent margin despite sitting out two of his PRIME seasons.

[Thread]

Jordan still has he highest career WS/48 in postseason history by a decent margin despite sitting out two of his PRIME seasons.

You're much too kind. Jordan was run off by the NBA. He was thrown out of the NBA.

[Splits]

What does that prove?
I gave Duncan the edge in both places career wise ...
If you keep reading on to the quote from LG you posted ...it ends with me on a Lakers site saying that Duncan should get the edge over Kobe? How does that make a hypocrite dumbass?

Nicca trying to act like he caught me in a lie when many on LG would call me a traitor for dat shit ...

Amb asked you to debate Kobe v. Duncan peak. You declined, saying (on ST) it was Duncan. You trot over to LG and claim "i think Kobe at his peak was greater but Duncan was more consistent". Which is it? Your LG persona or your ST persona?


What was Kobe's peak? Was it 2008? 2005? 2002? Bring it on, let's compare that to Duncan's prime.


Nope.
I dont want to argue.
I already have Duncan with the clear but slighter than most edge.
Argue with Kool if you want.
I dont want to discuss your favorite player with you it's a disrespect to tim right now.

[Killakobe81]

See below. Amb asked you to debate Kobe v. Duncan peak. You declined, saying (on ST) it was Duncan. You trot over to LG and claim "i think Kobe at his peak was greater but Duncan was more consistent"

No i never said Duncan was better at his peak than Kobe. That is what you get for trying to jump in to a argument betweem me and Amb
I said i wouldnt argue with amb because i already said after the title in 2014 as an all time rank i now have Duncan with the edge.
I still think Kobe at his peak was the greater player that has never changed ...and amb knows that.
You saw me on LG had to try and prove a point but you still are wrong. Show me where i said peak duncan was better than kobe? The edge referrenced is the long standing debate me and Amb had. I was telling him i wouldnt revisit it that day (like i said i would) out of respect for Tim's retirement.

Why didnt you just ask if you did not understand the context instead of stalking me on LG?:lol

[DMC]

Yeah, he hid his true self and attendant weaknesses, his fandom (down & upstairs), Media (to this fucking day) chronologically refuse to indict him on these truths and weaknesses. They only want to pinpoint his strengths. In their estimation Tim Duncan cannot withstand the truth of his life.

That's where a fellow like me steps in and badgers the countryside. It's what I did here in this city and what I do here on this ground.

I have to. I know nary other way.

- Dale
And here you are going on 10 years still sniffing his farts on Spurstalk.

[Thread]

And here you are going on 10 years still sniffing his farts on Spurstalk.

lmcontrollinao!!!

[DMC]

You probably have brown lung by now.

[ambchang]

Wasnt about metrics that is just my opinion same as me picking peak shaq or Hakeem over Duncan

I can see arguments of peak Shaq or Hakeem over Duncan. Kobe isn't even in the same category. The only reason Kobe ranked so high on most people on the all-time list was his longevity. If he had a peak higher than Duncan and his longevity is comparable to Duncan's, I can't see how you can reasonably rank Duncan over Kobe overall.

[Splits]

No i never said Duncan was better at his peak than Kobe. That is what you get for trying to jump in to a argument betweem me and Amb
I said i wouldnt argue with amb because i already said after the title in 2014 as an all time rank i now have Duncan with the edge.
I still think Kobe at his peak was the greater player that has never changed ...and amb knows that.
You saw me on LG had to try and prove a point but you still are wrong. Show me where i said peak duncan was better than kobe? The edge referrenced is the long standing debate me and Amb had. I was telling him i wouldnt revisit it that day (like i said i would) out of respect for Tim's retirement.

Why didnt you just ask if you did not understand the context instead of stalking me on LG?:lol

:lol stalking you

A thread about Duncan on LG, yeah, I'm going to read it. Your post was on the first page.

[Killakobe81]

I can see arguments of peak Shaq or Hakeem over Duncan. Kobe isn't even in the same category. The only reason Kobe ranked so high on most people on the all-time list was his longevity. If he had a peak higher than Duncan and his longevity is comparable to Duncan's, I can't see how you can reasonably rank Duncan over Kobe overall.

That is why it's an opinion.
To me arguing who had the better career was worthwhile.
Watching both players. I lean Kobe for peak duncan for career. Both are close.
Obviously I am biased, as are you.
Again, career wise to me it's Timmy but it's close.
If that is not enough for you I don't have anymore to give.
I talked about re-opening the debate once they both retired but really nothing is gonna change unless I go back to placing Kobe over duncan.
Im at peace with my rankings. Feel free to debate Cobbler or Kool

[Killakobe81]

:lol stalking you

A thread about Duncan on LG, yeah, I'm going to read it. Your post was on the first page.

Why bother to post what I said on LG if you are not gonna read it?:lol

It clearly states in the post you copied nd pasted here that Career wise that "maybe duncan should get the edge"

You still havent explained how that makes me a hypocrite :wakeup

I was on LG and on here on tim's retirement day saying Duncan had the better career .. but instead of going after the posters who are arguing Kobe did, you came after me ... And failed.

Like Timmy said, reading is FUn-DA-MENTAL

[Killakobe81]

Oh really?



Killakobe81
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 1080




http://forums.lakersground.net/templates/uberSTYLE/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?p=6910992#6910992)Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:00 am Post subject:








yinoma2001 wrote:




venturalakersfan wrote:


Two great players, we were lucky to have watched them play.




I think you and I were probably two of the more "open" Duncan "fans" here. I have nothing but respect for the guy. One of my fave players all time, and I always dreamed we'd find a way to get him here. http://forums.lakersground.net/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif




No offense to Shaq lovers but back in 99 ...
I argued for a trade of Shaq for Tim straight up.
I knew he had better posy game and would age better.
He would have been nuts in the triangle too when he had that bank shot.
I think you can make a case for both guys ...i think Kobe at his peak was greater but Duncan was more consistent.

Its close but maybe Duncan deserves the edge .. it doesnt take anything away from either guy. Same if YOU prefer Kobe.






Highlighted the part Splits keeps missing ...

[Splits]

Why bother to post what I said on LG if you are not gonna read it?:lol

It clearly states in the post you copied nd pasted here that Career wise that "maybe duncan should get the edge"

You still havent explained how that makes me a hypocrite :wakeup

I was on LG and on here on tim's retirement day saying Duncan had the better career .. but instead of going after the posters who are arguing Kobe did, you came after me ... And failed.

Like Timmy said, reading is FUn-DA-MENTAL

lol meltdown

I didn't misread your LG post, scra. Amb asked you to debate Kobe's peak. In your response, you said no and then said "I already have Duncan with the clear but slighter than most edge. " That is what I "misread", that you were referring to peak not career.

[Killakobe81]

lol meltdown

I didn't misread your LG post, scra. Amb asked you to debate Kobe's peak. In your response, you said no and then said "I already have Duncan with the clear but slighter than most edge. " That is what I "misread", that you were referring to peak not career.

no meltdown calling you out for being wrong.
just like I was once wrong about Kobe's draft position, it happens.
To be fair I could have worded it better but it was meant for Amb, not you ...
And IF i wasnt punding out something on cell I would have worded (the LG post) it, I think Kobe at his peak was greater but Duncan has been more consistently great ... maybe less less highs but definitely less lows too.

I just find it funny in the LG post you pasted here it CLEARLY says "It's close but maybe duncan deserves the edge" ...how is that different then what I said down here or upstairs?
Wouldnt i be a hypocrite (maybe you dont understand the word) IF I went on LG and said Kobe was better but on here something different?

But if being called out for not reading shit you posted is a meltdown then call me queso.

[Splits]

no meltdown calling you out for being wrong.
just like I was once wrong about Kobe's draft position, it happens.
To be fair I could have worded it better but it was meant for Amb, not you ...
And IF i wasnt punding out something on cell I would have worded (the LG post) it, I think Kobe at his peak was greater but Duncan has been more consistently great ... maybe less less highs but definitely less lows too.

I just find it funny in the LG post you pasted here it CLEARLY says "It's close but maybe duncan deserves the edge" ...how is that different then what I said down here or upstairs?
Wouldnt i be a hypocrite (maybe you dont understand the word) IF I went on LG and said Kobe was better but on here something different?

But if being called out for not reading shit you posted is a meltdown then call me queso.

How is one supposed to interpret "It's close but maybe duncan deserves the edge"? What is "it" after you just said Kobe had a better peak?

[Killakobe81]

How is one supposed to interpret "It's close but maybe duncan deserves the edge"? What is "it" after you just said Kobe had a better peak?

Again I had plenty of posts on here ... that said exactly what I thought.
the one on LG clearly says at the end, what I said here plenty of times.
I will own wording it poorly but you should own running with the assumption I would say one thing here and one thing there.

You like that chick that thought you had caught me cheating ... realized I was not but still trying to pick a fight and not admitting you assumed wrong ...
It's cool, Let's move on ...

[ambchang]

That is why it's an opinion.
To me arguing who had the better career was worthwhile.
Watching both players. I lean Kobe for peak duncan for career. Both are close.
Obviously I am biased, as are you.
Again, career wise to me it's Timmy but it's close.
If that is not enough for you I don't have anymore to give.
I talked about re-opening the debate once they both retired but really nothing is gonna change unless I go back to placing Kobe over duncan.
Im at peace with my rankings. Feel free to debate Cobbler or Kool

I am not saying you have to see it my way, but I am just failing to understand your logic. Which year(s) was/were Kobe's peak? I can stack any years with Duncan from 2001 to 2004, and Duncan wins by a relatively wide margin in any of them.

Other than usage rate, Kobe never led the league in ANY advanced stats, and that is just embarrassing. None of the other players in the conversation for top 10 all time did not lead the league in advanced stats in any years, and often in multiple categories over multiple years. He only led the league in playoff WS in 2001, and it's only because he played more minutes than Shaq.

Jordan - WS, DWS, VORP, OBPM, BPM, basically you name it, he has it. Same for Lebron
Magic - BPM, VORP, WS/48, OWS, AST%
Bird - OWS, DWS, WS, WS/48, BPM, VORP, PER
Duncan - Drtg, OWS, DWS, WS, BPM, VORP
Hakeem - Drtg, BLK%, DREB%, DBPM
Moses - All kinds of rebounding metrics, OWS, WS, WS/48
Shaq - PER, OWS, DWS, WS, WS48, BPM, VORP
Kareem - Pretty much everything other than DBPM
Dirk - OWS, WS, WS48
Garnett - WS, DRTG, WS48, BPM, VORP, PER
Big O - WS, OWS, AST% (didn't have a lot of the metrics back then)
Wilt - PER, WS, OWS, DWS, WS48 (didn't have a lot of the metrics back then)
Russell - DWS (didn't have a lot of the metrics back then)
West - OWS, WS, WS48(didn't have a lot of the metrics back then)
Dr. J - WS, WS48, BPM, VORP (and I ignored his ABA ones)
Admiral - WS, WS48, DWS, OWS, BLK%, PER, OBPM, DBPM, BPM, VORP (pretty much everything)
Sir Charles - TS%, ORB%, OBPM, BPM
Pedo - OWS, WS, OBPM, BPM, VORP


The only player who never led the league in anything, but is in the top 20 ever conversation was Isiah Thomas.

The ONLY players in the top 20 in career WS in NBA and ABA combined league history who didn't lead the league in any significant advanced stat were Reggie Miller and Kobe, and even Miller led the league in TS%, ORTG!

Kobe had unquestionably the worst peak of anyone in the top 10 conversation, possibly in the top 15 or even top 20 conversation.

[Killakobe81]

I am not saying you have to see it my way, but I am just failing to understand your logic. Which year(s) was/were Kobe's peak? I can stack any years with Duncan from 2001 to 2004, and Duncan wins by a relatively wide margin in any of them.

Other than usage rate, Kobe never led the league in ANY advanced stats, and that is just embarrassing. None of the other players in the conversation for top 10 all time did not lead the league in advanced stats in any years, and often in multiple categories over multiple years. He only led the league in playoff WS in 2001, and it's only because he played more minutes than Shaq.

Jordan - WS, DWS, VORP, OBPM, BPM, basically you name it, he has it. Same for Lebron
Magic - BPM, VORP, WS/48, OWS, AST%
Bird - OWS, DWS, WS, WS/48, BPM, VORP, PER
Duncan - Drtg, OWS, DWS, WS, BPM, VORP
Hakeem - Drtg, BLK%, DREB%, DBPM
Moses - All kinds of rebounding metrics, OWS, WS, WS/48
Shaq - PER, OWS, DWS, WS, WS48, BPM, VORP
Kareem - Pretty much everything other than DBPM
Dirk - OWS, WS, WS48
Garnett - WS, DRTG, WS48, BPM, VORP, PER
Big O - WS, OWS, AST% (didn't have a lot of the metrics back then)
Wilt - PER, WS, OWS, DWS, WS48 (didn't have a lot of the metrics back then)
Russell - DWS (didn't have a lot of the metrics back then)
West - OWS, WS, WS48(didn't have a lot of the metrics back then)
Dr. J - WS, WS48, BPM, VORP (and I ignored his ABA ones)
Admiral - WS, WS48, DWS, OWS, BLK%, PER, OBPM, DBPM, BPM, VORP (pretty much everything)
Sir Charles - TS%, ORB%, OBPM, BPM
Pedo - OWS, WS, OBPM, BPM, VORP


The only player who never led the league in anything, but is in the top 20 ever conversation was Isiah Thomas.

The ONLY players in the top 20 in career WS in NBA and ABA combined league history who didn't lead the league in any significant advanced stat were Reggie Miller and Kobe, and even Miller led the league in TS%, ORTG!

Kobe had unquestionably the worst peak of anyone in the top 10 conversation, possibly in the top 15 or even top 20 conversation.

again this was not based on metrics ...but interesting data ...

[ambchang]

again this was not based on metrics ...but interesting data ...

Oh yeah, the "I see it with my eyes" metric, too bad nothing objective ever backs you up.

It's like saying that, "To me, my wife is the hottest woman on earth and my kids are the most beautiful creatures" Sure, no one is going to argue with you on that one, because that is unarguable. Problem is that Kobe is neither your wife nor your kids, and you are treating him as such.

[Killakobe81]

Oh yeah, the "I see it with my eyes" metric, too bad nothing objective ever backs you up.

It's like saying that, "To me, my wife is the hottest woman on earth and my kids are the most beautiful creatures" Sure, no one is going to argue with you on that one, because that is unarguable. Problem is that Kobe is neither your wife nor your kids, and you are treating him as such.

WTF?

I already said I was not being objective. Neither are you.
Hoops will never be all about numbers but I never said anything about the eye test in my post.
The data you provide supports your argument so you feel that means you are not biased?
I could use raw stats to make a case for Kobe to support my logic but I will not because again, it was never about that. And tbh at this point I dont even care that much ...

Again, feel free to argue this with those that care ...

[Phillip]

In which way was Dirk more influential?

All this new trend we are seeing now about stars resigning money to play in competitive teams started with Tim Duncan and the Spurs. What has Dirk done to influence the NBA more than that?


He's probably talking about "Stretch 4s" but I've yet to see another Dirk since he came into the league other than Dominos shooting one legged fadeaways.:lol (Cliff Robinson/Horry were more influential than Dirk as far as hybrid forwards who can stretch the floor)


Yeah, I was waiting for that answer to shit on it.

:lmao daf still bitter over backlash from manu > dirk
:lmao obsessed
:lmao smelly be@ner

Being the first of your kind, doesn't mean you were the most influential. MJ wasn't the first of his kind, he just was far and away better than anyone the league had ever seen, doing what he did. That's why he was the most influential wing player ever.

If it's all about being the first player to ever sacrifice money for the team, well then that pretty much shoots your own argument down, because Timmy isn't the first athlete ever to take less money in order to help promote a winning cause.

Just because Dirk wasn't the first big guy to shoot longer range jumpers, doesn't mean he wasn't more influential. He was the first guy to be incredibly proficient at it, to the point that having 4s/5s on your team that can shoot from deep is pretty much a necessity, or you will have trouble matching up against half the teams in the league. That didn't truly start in the NBA until Dirk came around. You seriously think that 20 years from now, the league will be looking at Robert Horry as the reason why stretch 4's/5's became so popular? Please. Not only that, but Glenn Robinson and Horry were 6'7 and 6'9. Dirk is a full 7 footer. There have been plenty of guys who were 6'7 and 6'9 that could shoot from deep well before either of those guys. Lol Larry Bird?

One legged fades had nothing to do with what I was initially talking about, although even that shot has gotten far more popular thanks to Dirk, with guys such as Kobe, Durant, Lebron, Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins, and plenty of others imitating it and adding it to their skillsets. It's to the point that it's not even really looked at as a particularly unusual shot.

[ambchang]

WTF?

I already said I was not being objective. Neither are you.
Hoops will never be all about numbers but I never said anything about the eye test in my post.
The data you provide supports your argument so you feel that means you are not biased?
I could use raw stats to make a case for Kobe to support my logic but I will not because again, it was never about that. And tbh at this point I dont even care that much ...

Again, feel free to argue this with those that care ...

Go on, put up the raw stats, when you put everything together there is no way you can argue peak Kobe > peak Duncan. In fact, you'd have a hard time arguing peak Kobe > peak Garnett or peak Dirk.

[DAF86]

:lmao daf still bitter over backlash from manu > dirk
:lmao obsessed
:lmao smelly be@ner

Being the first of your kind, doesn't mean you were the most influential. MJ wasn't the first of his kind, he just was far and away better than anyone the league had ever seen, doing what he did. That's why he was the most influential wing player ever.

If it's all about being the first player to ever sacrifice money for the team, well then that pretty much shoots your own argument down, because Timmy isn't the first athlete ever to take less money in order to help promote a winning cause.

Just because Dirk wasn't the first big guy to shoot longer range jumpers, doesn't mean he wasn't more influential. He was the first guy to be incredibly proficient at it, to the point that having 4s/5s on your team that can shoot from deep is pretty much a necessity, or you will have trouble matching up against half the teams in the league. That didn't truly start in the NBA until Dirk came around. You seriously think that 20 years from now, the league will be looking at Robert Horry as the reason why stretch 4's/5's became so popular? Please. Not only that, but Glenn Robinson and Horry were 6'7 and 6'9. Dirk is a full 7 footer. There have been plenty of guys who were 6'7 and 6'9 that could shoot from deep well before either of those guys. Lol Larry Bird?

One legged fades had nothing to do with what I was initially talking about, although even that shot has gotten far more popular thanks to Dirk, with guys such as Kobe, Durant, Lebron, Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins, and plenty of others imitating it and adding it to their skillsets. It's to the point that it's not even really looked at as a particularly unusual shot.

Dirk being more influential than Tim Duncan :lol

Today's game is played the way it is because of the rule changes, not because of Dirk.

Heck, Manu has been a hell of a lot more influential than Dirk: the eurostep, the flopping, the tendency to only either attack the basket or shoot threes while avoiding mid range jumpers.

[DAF86]

Dirk is more "unique" than "influential", tbh.

[Kawhitstorm]

Just because Dirk wasn't the first big guy to shoot longer range jumpers, doesn't mean he wasn't more influential. He was the first guy to be incredibly proficient at it, to the point that having 4s/5s on your team that can shoot from deep is pretty much a necessity, or you will have trouble matching up against half the teams in the league. That didn't truly start in the NBA until Dirk came around.

Dummy, Sam Perkins was the first stretch 4/5 but he played in an era where team shot less than double digit 3s.:lol

Don Nelson is the one that changed the league w/ his gimmick lineups BEFORE Dirk even came into the league just like D'Antoni is credited w/ the 5 seconds or less offense rather than Nash.


You seriously think that 20 years from now, the league will be looking at Robert Horry as the reason why stretch 4's/5's became so popular? Please. Not only that, but Glenn Robinson and Horry were 6'7 and 6'9. Dirk is a full 7 footer. There have been plenty of guys who were 6'7 and 6'9 that could shoot from deep well before either of those guys. Lol Larry Bird?

Who the hell did Bird influence? Parsons/Hayward?:lmao

Horry/Cliff Robinson (NOT :lolGlenn "Big Dog" Robinson:lol) were the first full-time hybrid forwards whose job was to guard multiple position & stretch the floor on the other end all the way to the 3 point line. Draymond, Millsap, Marvin Williams, Aminu, Crowder, Deng...etc are basically the current crop of stretch 4s who fit that mold.

As far as stretch 5, even Porzingis is more like Ralph Sampson than Dirk.:lol


One legged fades had nothing to do with what I was initially talking about, although even that shot has gotten far more popular thanks to Dirk, with guys such as Kobe, Durant, Lebron, Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins, and plenty of others imitating it and adding it to their skillsets. It's to the point that it's not even really looked at as a particularly unusual shot.

You didn't even mention the closest thing to Dirk: Softridge but he doesn't even shoot 3s.:lol (The rest of the guy you mentioned are nothing like Dirk beside them trying out the one legged fadeaway)

[Phillip]

Dummy, Sam Perkins was the first stretch 4/5 but he played in an era where team shot less than double digit 3s.:lol

Don Nelson is the one that changed the league w/ his gimmick lineups BEFORE Dirk even came into the league just like D'Antoni is credited w/ the 5 seconds or less offense rather than Nash.



Who the hell did Bird influence? Parsons/Hayward?:lmao

Horry/Cliff Robinson (NOT :lolGlenn "Big Dog" Robinson:lol) were the first full-time hybrid forwards whose job was to guard multiple position & stretch the floor on the other end all the way to the 3 point line. Draymond, Millsap, Marvin Williams, Aminu, Crowder, Deng...etc are basically the current crop of stretch 4s who fit that mold.

As far as stretch 5, even Porzingis is more like Ralph Sampson than Dirk.:lol



You didn't even mention the closest thing to Dirk: Softridge but he doesn't even shoot 3s.:lol (The rest of the guy you mentioned are nothing like Dirk beside them trying out the one legged fadeaway)

Nice post, telling me that nearly no one is quite like Dirk. :tu Except I never claimed a bunch of people are like Dirk. :td

My claim was that Dirk had a large influence in how the style of the game has changed. Prior to Dirk, there were very few players 6'10 and taller that could shoot proficiently from longer than 18 feet, and were generally looked down upon. After Dirk got popular (after being clearly recognized as far and away the best shooting big man the game had ever seen), using a shooter at the PF/C position quickly went from being a novelty, to a trend, and now it's practically a must-have.

[Kawhitstorm]

Nice post, telling me that nearly no one is quite like Dirk. :tu Except I never claimed a bunch of people are like Dirk. :td

My claim was that Dirk had a large influence in how the style of the game has changed. Prior to Dirk, there were very few players 6'10 and taller that could shoot proficiently from longer than 18 feet, and were generally looked down upon.
The last one-way stretch 4 on a team that made it to the Finals was Rashard Lewis other than that everyone has been a TWO-WAY variety.:wakeup


After Dirk got popular (after being clearly recognized as far and away the best shooting big man the game had ever seen), using a shooter at the PF/C position quickly went from being a novelty, to a trend, and now it's practically a must-have.

Cavs just beat the Duds w/ a PF/C who can even shoot FTs & the Spurs destroyed the Heatles w/ past prime Tim.:lol

Kevin Love basically can't play starters minutes against any team w/ an elite PG which is actually what has NOW become a must-have for any contender. Draymond is a DEFENDER who developed a respectable outside shot, if he played defense like Dirk/Love he wouldn't be in the league.:lol

[Phillip]

The last one-way stretch 4 on a team that made it to the Finals was Rashard Lewis other than that everyone has been a TWO-WAY variety.:wakeup



Cavs just beat the Duds w/ a PF/C who can even shoot FTs & the Spurs destroyed the Heatles w/ past prime Tim.:lol

Kevin Love basically can't play starters minutes against any team w/ an elite PG which is actually what has NOW become a must-have for any contender. Draymond is a DEFENDER who developed a respectable outside shot, if he played defense like Dirk/Love he wouldn't be in the league.:lol

You are completely missing the point, and appear to be more focused on knocking Dirk, than actually making sense. Typical gnsf :toast at least you guys are consistent rofl rofl rofl

[Kawhitstorm]

You are completely missing the point, and appear to be more focused on knocking Dirk, than actually making sense. Typical gnsf :toast at least you guys are consistent rofl rofl rofl

You didn't have a point.:wakeup

[Phillip]

You didn't have a point.:wakeup

cool reply, tbh :tu