Tim Duncan was never really impressed by Michael Jordan

[daslicer]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/tim-duncan-true-feelings-michael-jordan-article-1.2712196

Interesting interview Duncan did with Dan Patrick in 1998.

[HarlemHeat37]

Another reason why he's my favorite player of all-time, tbh..

I have respect for anybody that wasn't brainwashed by the media's false portrayal of Dad Killer..

[spurraider21]

players usually are horrible talent evaluators tbh :lol

[phxspurfan]

Obviously he hasn't seen the Come Fly with Me video. Or Space Jam

[Spurtacular]

MJ is a construct of the association and the media. The idea that he is an undisputed GOAT is laughable.

[Kool Bob Love]

MJ is a construct of the association and the media. The idea that he is an undisputed GOAT is laughable.
Men lie women lie numbers don't.

[TrainOfThought5]

players usually are horrible talent evaluators tbh :lol

[cutewizard]

Statistically, WILT IS THE GOAT!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwvdsi6gLl8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STXbuXGPdoY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAyN1LZNXfw

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Statistically and physiologically, WILT CHAMBERLAIN is the greatest sportsman the Solar System has ever produced.

[cutewizard]

What the fuck?????????

WILT IS WILT!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmBc8NX_oL8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDMCh5HrcG0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PcEqa2l5eE

[james evans]

Men lie women lie numbers don't.
What has Jordan accomplished that Kareem hasn't? Are you telling me that if you had a team like the 76ers this past season and you could draft any player in NBA history, you'd pick Jordan over Kareem, Wilt, or Magic?

[Chillen]

Jordan is the GOAT, Duncan said this in 1998, I bet Duncan's view on MJ has changed since than as he has matured over the years and realized how difficult it is to win NBA titles in the NBA.

[Chillen]

MJ is a construct of the association and the media. The idea that he is an undisputed GOAT is laughable.

LOL, the Bulls were like the Beatles for the NBA, as for marketing and branding they are doing the same with Curry, LeBron now, NBA just wants to sell it's product and the players are part of that.

[cutewizard]

the whole of human society is simply branding......

the branding of Those Who Want Power exerting control over Those Who Are Asleep.....

[Obstructed_View]

players usually are horrible talent evaluators tbh :lol

Not sure how he got any of that wrong. Michael Jordan was a dick, Stef Marbury was fucking amazing to watch, and KG and Kobe both became incredible players.

[Obstructed_View]

MJ is a construct of the association and the media. The idea that he is an undisputed GOAT is laughable.

Clearly nothing is undisputed these days, but he's the greatest player of the modern era, and it's not really close. Even then, he was massively overrated by the same bandwaggoners that are rushing out to get Warriors jerseys right now.

[DeRozan m8]

Clear undisputed GOAT tbh

[Capt Bringdown]

That Chamberlain at 50 video is impressive. What a bod.

[poop]

Jordan is the undisputed GOAT.

I used to think like some people here...'was he ACTUALLY better than kobe? Was he really that much better than hakeem/duncan etc...'

And then i undertook a massive comprehensive evaluation of their numbers...careers...individual seasons, playoffs, playoff series, Finals peformances, accolades, DEFENSE, etc..

And it was clear jordan is by far better than anyone ever. If i was starting a franchise and could draft any player to build a team around, he would be number one without question.

As for Wilt...we will never know really. It is simply too hard to compare guys from the early 60' s league to the modern era. His numbers were comically ridiculous. Does anyone really believe he would average 50 and 25 in tbe modern era? What numbers would 2000-era Shaq put up in the 60s nba? Just now way to tell.

So yes, in the modern era and probably all time, JORDAN IS NUMBER ONE AND ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE.

[lefty]

In his first game vs the Bulls, in Chicago, Tim blocked MJ twice (both times jump shots)

[cutewizard]

Jordan is the undisputed GOAT.

I used to think like some people here...'was he ACTUALLY better than kobe? Was he really that much better than hakeem/duncan etc...'

And then i undertook a massive comprehensive evaluation of their numbers...careers...individual seasons, playoffs, playoff series, Finals peformances, accolades, DEFENSE, etc..

And it was clear jordan is by far better than anyone ever. If i was starting a franchise and could draft any player to build a team around, he would be number one without question.

As for Wilt...we will never know really. It is simply too hard to compare guys from the early 60' s league to the modern era. His numbers were comically ridiculous. Does anyone really believe he would average 50 and 25 in tbe modern era? What numbers would 2000-era Shaq put up in the 60s nba? Just now way to tell.

So yes, in the modern era and probably all time, JORDAN IS NUMBER ONE AND ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

can you say that with absolute certainty?

statistically, WILT IS BEYOND JORDAN! everyone knows this, even newborn humans, lol

[cutewizard]

MJ is not the best of all time

the best statement is: JORDAN IS ARGUABLY THE GREATEST OFF GUARD IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. Period.

But, look......let's be objective.....

Super Point Center Sabonis is a far better passer than Jordan, even if Jordan will train again....

Olajuwon has more talent than Jordan

Even this person, had he lived long enough, was predicted to eclipse Jordan:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4u4MdSGSDo

[cutewizard]

Len Bias has insane athleticism, the true precursor to Westbrook, too bad.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSLLpiWoiz4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDQnsK6bpPM

[DMC]

http://i.imgur.com/nzYVdW4.jpg

This was during MJ's HOF speech. Note the look of disgust on Pop and Tim's faces.

[poop]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

can you say that with absolute certainty?

statistically, WILT IS BEYOND JORDAN! everyone knows this, even newborn humans, lol

Its impossible to compare/assess properly because Wilt played in a much slower, flat footed league against mostly 6-9 white centers lmao.
Jordan kills him in mvps, titles, finals mvps, dpoy, etc...

No way wilts numbers look that impressive in thd modern era.

[rmt]

In his most recent interview, Duncan does mention how awed he was his first time on court with MJ - shot an air ball before the nerves settled down.

[rmt]

http://i.imgur.com/nzYVdW4.jpg

This was during MJ's HOF speech. Note the look of disgust on Pop and Tim's faces.

What a difference between MJ's speech (so egotistical) and those of DRob, Stockton and Sloan (sincere, substantive, humble).

[Emperor]

MJ is not the best of all time

the best statement is: JORDAN IS ARGUABLY THE GREATEST OFF GUARD IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. Period.

But, look......let's be objective.....

Super Point Center Sabonis is a far better passer than Jordan, even if Jordan will train again....

Olajuwon has more talent than Jordan

Even this person, had he lived long enough, was predicted to eclipse Jordan:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4u4MdSGSDo

You had me at Sabonis.

[Spurtacular]

Men lie women lie numbers don't.

Numbers lie a lot, actually. And many of the people that created Jordan's facade laughed all the way to the bank.

[Spurtacular]

LOL, the Bulls were like the Beatles for the NBA, as for marketing and branding they are doing the same with Curry, LeBron now, NBA just wants to sell it's product and the players are part of that.

Yup. Nothing changes. NBA about as corrupt as its ever been.

[Spurtacular]

Clearly nothing is undisputed these days, but he's the greatest player of the modern era, and it's not really close. Even then, he was massively overrated by the same bandwaggoners that are rushing out to get Warriors jerseys right now.

No. Prime Bird could do it all. He owned the fuck out of Jordan too. Even when he was a cripple, he played him even.

[Mikeanaro]

Statistically, WILT IS THE GOAT!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwvdsi6gLl8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STXbuXGPdoY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAyN1LZNXfw

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Statistically and physiologically, WILT CHAMBERLAIN is the greatest sportsman the Solar System has ever produced.

Wilt was insane, thats it.

[Obstructed_View]

No. Prime Bird could do it all. He owned the fuck out of Jordan too. Even when he was a cripple, he played him even.

I won't say anything bad about Larry Bird. It's a testament to his greatness that he could hold his own with almost anyone, even when his back was causing him so much pain that he could barely move. He was fucking amazing. Jordan was better. Swap teammates and Jordan's the one with all the wins.

[Dro210]

I won't say anything bad about Larry Bird. It's a testament to his greatness that he could hold his own with almost anyone, even when his back was causing him so much pain that he could barely move. He was fucking amazing. Jordan was better. Swap teammates and Jordan's the one with all the wins.

Timmy, MJ, and Bird are my Top 3. I think you can list them in any order and be right about it.

I don't rate the Wilt's and Russell's of the world cause I never saw them play full games, and lets be real, the players and the league were both much smaller then.

A lot of people say I'm underrating KAJ, but I never got to see him in his prime... Also, FTL

[T Park]

I won't say anything bad about Larry Bird. It's a testament to his greatness that he could hold his own with almost anyone, even when his back was causing him so much pain that he could barely move. He was fucking amazing. Jordan was better. Swap teammates and Jordan's the one with all the wins.

That playoff game vs Indiana where he was literally laying on the floor because it was so bad, and played like that is still amazing to this day.

[dbreiden83080]

Statistically, WILT IS THE GOAT!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwvdsi6gLl8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STXbuXGPdoY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAyN1LZNXfw

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Statistically and physiologically, WILT CHAMBERLAIN is the greatest sportsman the Solar System has ever produced.

And bedded down 20,000 women without every marrying.. Now that's a stat..

[HarlemHeat37]

Dad Killer is definitely the greatest of all-time, no doubt about it, unfortunately..

However, it doesn't change the fact that he's one of the worst human beings to ever play professional basketball..not only for being one of the worst teammates imaginable, but also for playing a prominent role in the deaths of thousands of Black youths, yet continuing to show no remorse or take any form of action..

There's a reason he's detested by the greats from the civil rights era, tbh..if he had played in today's era, where secrets don't exist anymore, there's absolutely no way you would have Space Jam or "I wanna be like Mike" or anything family-oriented, obviously:lol..played in the perfect era to push their marketing machine..

Also, it's refreshing to see players like Magic, Duncan and Lebron lead teams to multiple championships and build teams that are perennial contenders..it dismisses the stupid notion that you "need to be an asshole" to be a great winner:lol..just a ludicrous belief that you hear from too many people..

[Killakobe81]

Dad Killer is definitely the greatest of all-time, no doubt about it, unfortunately..

However, it doesn't change the fact that he's one of the worst human beings to ever play professional basketball..not only for being one of the worst teammates imaginable, but also for playing a prominent role in the deaths of thousands of Black youths, yet continuing to show no remorse or take any form of action..

There's a reason he's detested by the greats from the civil rights era, tbh..if he had played in today's era, where secrets don't exist anymore, there's absolutely no way you would have Space Jam or "I wanna be like Mike" or anything family-oriented, obviously:lol..played in the perfect era to push their marketing machine..

Also, it's refreshing to see players like Magic, Duncan and Lebron lead teams to multiple championships and build teams that are perennial contenders..it dismisses the stupid notion that you "need to be an asshole" to be a great winner:lol..just a ludicrous belief that you hear from too many people..

I love the value he saw in KG and Kobe.
The fact he wasnt impressed with jordan because everyone else was ... and ...

"I would feel incomplete without one"

That is the difference between Duncan and Malone and Barkley.
Rings matter the GOAT PF and top 5 guy said so himself.

[Spurtacular]

I won't say anything bad about Larry Bird. It's a testament to his greatness that he could hold his own with almost anyone, even when his back was causing him so much pain that he could barely move. He was fucking amazing. Jordan was better. Swap teammates and Jordan's the one with all the wins.

I don't have a problem with your opinion. What I'd notes is that both have cases for GOAT, and that my point was the media shamelessly anointed MJ as GOAT even though Bird beat him 14X times and discarded him from the playoffs both times en route to finals. Money talks though. It wasn't in the media's interest to jump on Bird's broken back. Sadly, ignorant fans are in their wake though.

[AZK619]

MJ remains the modern day GOAT. :king Making mountains out of molehills with some old article and some screen cap, tbh :lol

[lilbthebasedgod]

Kareem > Jordan > Wilt

[barbacoataco]

I think Duncan in the interview is talking more about Jordan as a person and an idol. He doesn't say anything bad about MJ's game.

Jordan was the best period. Nobody else combined personal achievements and huge stats with winning championships as well as he did. From his game winning NCAA championship shot and throughout his career he hit a ton of big shots. Plus he was super consistent with no injuries ever and always playing big minutes as a 2 way player. I think his durability is a huge factor. Jordan was just always big every time.

Who cares what kind of human being he is? He got along with his teammates and coach well enough that they stayed together for many years. Dennis Rodman played his best during his time with the Bulls. Really I think Jordan, Rodman, Pippen and Phil Jackson are all annoying. But they were a great team and very consistent.

I do believe that Jordan's reputation is tarnished by the gambling and the suspension/early retirement conspiracy. But we don't know exactly what happened.

[tonight...you]

I think Duncan in the interview is talking more about Jordan as a person and an idol. He doesn't say anything bad about MJ's game.

Jordan was the best period. Nobody else combined personal achievements and huge stats with winning championships as well as he did. From his game winning NCAA championship shot and throughout his career he hit a ton of big shots. Plus he was super consistent with no injuries ever and always playing big minutes as a 2 way player. I think his durability is a huge factor. Jordan was just always big every time.

Who cares what kind of human being he is? He got along with his teammates and coach well enough that they stayed together for many years. Dennis Rodman played his best during his time with the Bulls. Really I think Jordan, Rodman, Pippen and Phil Jackson are all annoying. But they were a great team and very consistent.

I do believe that Jordan's reputation is tarnished by the gambling and the suspension/early retirement conspiracy. But we don't know exactly what happened.
I thought it was clear. Agreed.

[kxs783kms]

Timmy's opinion is he's opinion but I sure wouldn't pick a Marbury over Jordan that's for sure. And I'll pay to watch MJ play over Marbury all day, everyday! Sounds like he was just turned off by all of the attention Jordan got vs the actual basketball player.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Timmy's opinion is he's opinion but I sure wouldn't pick a Marbury over Jordan that's for sure. And I'll pay to watch MJ play over Marbury all day, everyday! Sounds like he was just turned off by all of the attention Jordan got vs the actual basketball player.

He didn't actually say he's pick Marbury over Jordan. But he was impressed with the former. And who wouldn't? Marbury routinely destroyed Parker in their head-to-head matchups.

[kxs783kms]

He didn't actually say he's pick Marbury over Jordan. But he was impressed with the former. And who wouldn't? Marbury routinely destroyed Parker in their head-to-head matchups.

I understand that. But Jordan destroyed way more opponents consistently than Marbury every did. How can you not be impressed with a guy who led his team to two 3peat championships? While hitting clutch shot, after clutch shot throughout his career. I'm sorry but I still don't understand this statement from Tim, other than he just didn't like the attention Jordan got.

[HarlemHeat37]

I think Duncan in the interview is talking more about Jordan as a person and an idol. He doesn't say anything bad about MJ's game.

Jordan was the best period. Nobody else combined personal achievements and huge stats with winning championships as well as he did. From his game winning NCAA championship shot and throughout his career he hit a ton of big shots. Plus he was super consistent with no injuries ever and always playing big minutes as a 2 way player. I think his durability is a huge factor. Jordan was just always big every time.

Who cares what kind of human being he is? He got along with his teammates and coach well enough that they stayed together for many years. Dennis Rodman played his best during his time with the Bulls. Really I think Jordan, Rodman, Pippen and Phil Jackson are all annoying. But they were a great team and very consistent.

I do believe that Jordan's reputation is tarnished by the gambling and the suspension/early retirement conspiracy. But we don't know exactly what happened.

The thousands of mothers that have been forced to bury their children because of him and his sneakers..

[Clipper Nation]

Another reason why he's my favorite player of all-time, tbh..

I have respect for anybody that wasn't brainwashed by the media's false portrayal of Dad Killer..

[Clipper Nation]

LeBron, Duncan and Kareem are so much better than DK, it's not even funny. DK was nothing but a product of Stern, Media, and MVPippen.

[lefty]

Dad Killer is definitely the greatest of all-time, no doubt about it, unfortunately..

However, it doesn't change the fact that he's one of the worst human beings to ever play professional basketball..not only for being one of the worst teammates imaginable, but also for playing a prominent role in the deaths of thousands of Black youths, yet continuing to show no remorse or take any form of action..

There's a reason he's detested by the greats from the civil rights era, tbh..if he had played in today's era, where secrets don't exist anymore, there's absolutely no way you would have Space Jam or "I wanna be like Mike" or anything family-oriented, obviously:lol..played in the perfect era to push their marketing machine..

Also, it's refreshing to see players like Magic, Duncan and Lebron lead teams to multiple championships and build teams that are perennial contenders..it dismisses the stupid notion that you "need to be an asshole" to be a great winner:lol..just a ludicrous belief that you hear from too many people..
Lol Magic is a top of the line asshole

[Vic Petro]

I don't understand how anyone who watched Michael Jordan's career could make an argument they've seen a better basketball player.

He's a dick but he was the best.

[DMC]

Wilt was insane, thats it.

lol goal tending being a blocked shot, rebounding against scrubs... D'Andre Jordan would be about the same if you could put him in that era.

[Mikeanaro]

lol goal tending being a blocked shot, rebounding against scrubs... D'Andre Jordan would be about the same if you could put him in that era.
No, D´Andre is a retard with no shots pass or D and I want to see him perfectly healthy and in full shape at age 50.
Wilt could do the FT line dunk taking just a few steps, and also dunk on a 13 foot rim, on the other hand D´Andre is a glorified role player in a soft era.

[Sean Cagney]

MJ is not the best of all time

the best statement is: JORDAN IS ARGUABLY THE GREATEST OFF GUARD IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. Period.

But, look......let's be objective.....

Super Point Center Sabonis is a far better passer than Jordan, even if Jordan will train again....

Olajuwon has more talent than Jordan

Even this person, had he lived long enough, was predicted to eclipse Jordan:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4u4MdSGSDoHe is not arguably the best off guard ever, he is and it's not close... The rest ehhhhhh Sabonis?

[Vic Petro]

MJ is not the best of all time

the best statement is: JORDAN IS ARGUABLY THE GREATEST OFF GUARD IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. Period.

But, look......let's be objective.....

Super Point Center Sabonis is a far better passer than Jordan, even if Jordan will train again....

Olajuwon has more talent than Jordan

Even this person, had he lived long enough, was predicted to eclipse Jordan:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4u4MdSGSDo

You seem like a nice guy but this is horseshit.

[cutewizard]

He is not arguably the best off guard ever, he is and it's not close... The rest ehhhhhh Sabonis?


----------------------------------------------

Kobe says "hello!"......im not a fan of Kobe, but he is in the conversation, too....

[cutewizard]

No. Prime Bird could do it all. He owned the fuck out of Jordan too. Even when he was a cripple, he played him even.


----------------------------------------------

Sir Spurtacular, how would you assess Bird vis-a-vis Lebron? im interested in your views on who is the best small forward of all time?

[Kikoluna]

And bedded down 20,000 women without every marrying.. Now that's a stat..

Wow that is amazing. For reals.

[K...]

http://i.imgur.com/nzYVdW4.jpg

This was during MJ's HOF speech. Note the look of disgust on Pop and Tim's faces.

RC stoned out of his mind as usual, tbh

[Clipper Nation]

I don't understand how anyone who watched Michael Jordan's career could make an argument they've seen a better basketball player.

He's a dick but he was the best.
DK lucked up by facing a bunch of choke artists and/or washed-up players in his Finals series. Not to mention expansion watering down the league, and all the great '80s teams that used to own his ass getting old and declining. His two toughest competitors in the East in his prime were led by Reggie Miller and Patrick Ewing... need I say more? :lol

Hakeem would have handed DK back-to-back L's if DK didn't get suspended for gambling, and that would be the end of this phony narrative.

[Vic Petro]

DK lucked up by facing a bunch of choke artists and/or washed-up players in his Finals series. Not to mention expansion watering down the league, and all the great '80s teams that used to own his ass getting old and declining. His two toughest competitors in the East in his prime were led by Reggie Miller and Patrick Ewing... need I say more? :lol

Hakeem would have handed DK back-to-back L's if DK didn't get suspended for gambling, and that would be the end of this phony narrative.

Please. Jordan wins 8 in a row had he never retired.

[Clipper Nation]

Please. Jordan wins 8 in a row had he never retired.
No chance in hell. Those Rockets teams were loaded, and the Bulls had no answer for Hakeem. There's a reason the Bulls went 1-5 against Houston during their first threepeat years, and that was before the Rockets even made the leap to championship contention.

If the Bulls had LeBron instead of Jordan, they'd have swept the whole decade. But they didn't.

[GSH]

LMAO. There's a reason why baseball pitchers are always such terrible hitters. They have to believe that a good pitcher can dominate any batter. That it's possible to throw a pitch that's impossible to hit.

What Tim said was: "I'm just somebody that isn't that impressed by him. There really isn't anybody in the world I'm impressed with."

For Tim Duncan to be Tim Duncan, and believe that he could dominate the game on both ends, that's EXACTLY the mentality he had to have. Yeah, he had to have a shitload of talent, and it helped that he was really tall. But what made Duncan who he was, was his mental game.

[SpurPadre]

Dad Killer is definitely the greatest of all-time, no doubt about it, unfortunately..

However, it doesn't change the fact that he's one of the worst human beings to ever play professional basketball..not only for being one of the worst teammates imaginable, but also for playing a prominent role in the deaths of thousands of Black youths, yet continuing to show no remorse or take any form of action..

There's a reason he's detested by the greats from the civil rights era, tbh..if he had played in today's era, where secrets don't exist anymore, there's absolutely no way you would have Space Jam or "I wanna be like Mike" or anything family-oriented, obviously:lol..played in the perfect era to push their marketing machine..

Also, it's refreshing to see players like Magic, Duncan and Lebron lead teams to multiple championships and build teams that are perennial contenders..it dismisses the stupid notion that you "need to be an asshole" to be a great winner:lol..just a ludicrous belief that you hear from too many people..

LMAO at "Lebron" and "build" in the same sentence...

[Sean Cagney]

No chance in hell. Those Rockets teams were loaded, and the Bulls had no answer for Hakeem. There's a reason the Bulls went 1-5 against Houston during their first threepeat years, and that was before the Rockets even made the leap to championship contention.

If the Bulls had LeBron instead of Jordan, they'd have swept the whole decade. But they didn't.Spurs went 5-1 vs. Houston in 95 if I am correct, how did that work out in the WCF? Regular season... Finals and playoffs whole different ball game. I would not say no chance in hell because with the Bulls and Mikes will to win he found a way to get it done and I would not count them out, never. I disagree on swept the decade too, that is a little much.
LMAO. There's a reason why baseball pitchers are always such terrible hitters. They have to believe that a good pitcher can dominate any batter. That it's possible to throw a pitch that's impossible to hit.

What Tim said was: "I'm just somebody that isn't that impressed by him. There really isn't anybody in the world I'm impressed with."

For Tim Duncan to be Tim Duncan, and believe that he could dominate the game on both ends, that's EXACTLY the mentality he had to have. Yeah, he had to have a shitload of talent, and it helped that he was really tall. But what made Duncan who he was, was his mental game.

Tim always had that mental aspect and drive few have had... Only a select few have that.

[Spurtacular]

----------------------------------------------

Sir Spurtacular, how would you assess Bird vis-a-vis Lebron? im interested in your views on who is the best small forward of all time?

Sh** Just type up a load that failed on transmission. Maybe a more abbreviated version.

Something to consider would be are we talking about a fair plane or the reality of the NBA plane. Because on the WWE Basketball plane, Lebron benefits greatly from two things. 1. Being allowed to roid/HGH up; and 2. The whistles.

Regarding the latter, first. I won't go into all that; but just one important thing is all the added phony whistles. They allow a player like Lebron to catch his breath and "get his legs". This is very key; and the league knows it. This change in structure can be traced back to MJ (and was later utilized on players like Kobe and Lebron's behalves). I can't stress how HUGE an effect it has. It's why you'd see Lebron deferring much more against munchkins in international play for instance. With the roids, just look at how Lebron came back two years ago with about thirty pounds less muscle. Some significant higher-up had probably threatened testing. He called it the juice diet (ironically), which had led to the 'leaner' LBJ. Suddenly, he was not so huge and able to bully his way into the paint on every possession. He was still a very good wing player; but the Magic comparisons instead of the MJ comparisons were more apropos. (Jordan was a big time doper, too though). Even look at last season when LBJ was more pedestrian for much of it. He was much stronger and dominant by the finals; and that was not merely a product of 'pacing himself.' But the effect of the doping is obvious. It takes him from top three to seven player status and puts him at the summit by himself like it did for Barry Bonds. It takes him from facilitator Magic to a MJ/K Malone/C Barkley plus one hybrid.

One thing though, Lebron is a sh** shooter. Pop knew this when he had players sagging off him in the 2013 Finals; though to make a long story short, Pop did overplay his hand, and he made the adjustments in 2014. But the reality was you could clog the lane and let Lebron get some numbers; but he wasn't otherwise gonna dominate without putting the ball through the hoop from distance. To me, this is a huge discrepancy between Lebron and The Master Of The Half Inch (Bird). Bird constantly had players off balance because he was just playing with them like a cat with mouse, batting them around. When Diaw was at his most dominant with the Spurs, it was when he had the right elbow jab and fade shot working ala Bird. That's sort of a side note though. Bird was skilled in all areas of the game. And at his best, he was a flat out assassin, and that's why I'd even take him over juiced/the league is cheating Lebron. Though, it'd be a much more admittedly close call.

But I do have players like Bird, LBJ, Magic, Duncan, Kareem, Russell, Stockton, Malone, D-Rob, Curry in a high place for one simple reason; They win. Their teams perennially win 50 plus b/c they either bring the intangibles or dominate or make their teammates that much better. And from that perspective, I think the who's better angle can just be a bit over-hyped and over-played. I really only get into it when it comes to Bird b/c to my mind he is GOAT. Though, I honestly think a player like Duncan has a case as well. I have him as a close #2. The whole greatest PF sh** is just an excuse to not talk about him in the running. He gets disrespected even when people are heaping such "high praise."

[barbacoataco]

Sh** Just type up a load that failed on transmission. Maybe a more abbreviated version.

Something to consider would be are we talking about a fair plane or the reality of the NBA plane. Because on the WWE Basketball plane, Lebron benefits greatly from two things. 1. Being allowed to roid/HGH up; and 2. The whistles.

Regarding the latter, first. I won't go into all that; but just one important thing is all the added phony whistles. They allow a player like Lebron to catch his breath and "get his legs". This is very key; and the league knows it. This change in structure can be traced back to MJ (and was later utilized on players like Kobe and Lebron's behalves). I can't stress how HUGE an effect it has. It's why you'd see Lebron deferring much more against munchkins in international play for instance. With the roids, just look at how Lebron came back two years ago with about thirty pounds less muscle. Some significant higher-up had probably threatened testing. He called it the juice diet (ironically), which had led to the 'leaner' LBJ. Suddenly, he was not so huge and able to bully his way into the paint on every possession. He was still a very good wing player; but the Magic comparisons instead of the MJ comparisons were more apropos. (Jordan was a big time doper, too though). Even look at last season when LBJ was more pedestrian for much of it. He was much stronger and dominant by the finals; and that was not merely a product of 'pacing himself.' But the effect of the doping is obvious. It takes him from top three to seven player status and puts him at the summit by himself like it did for Barry Bonds. It takes him from facilitator Magic to a MJ/K Malone/C Barkley plus one hybrid.

One thing though, Lebron is a sh** shooter. Pop knew this when he had players sagging off him in the 2013 Finals; though to make a long story short, Pop did overplay his hand, and he made the adjustments in 2014. But the reality was you could clog the lane and let Lebron get some numbers; but he wasn't otherwise gonna dominate without putting the ball through the hoop from distance. To me, this is a huge discrepancy between Lebron and The Master Of The Half Inch (Bird). Bird constantly had players off balance because he was just playing with them like a cat with mouse, batting them around. When Diaw was at his most dominant with the Spurs, it was when he had the right elbow jab and fade shot working ala Bird. That's sort of a side note though. Bird was skilled in all areas of the game. And at his best, he was a flat out assassin, and that's why I'd even take him over juiced/the league is cheating Lebron. Though, it'd be a much more admittedly close call.

But I do have players like Bird, LBJ, Magic, Duncan, Kareem, Russell, Stockton, Malone, D-Rob, Curry in a high place for one simple reason; They win. Their teams perennially win 50 plus b/c they either bring the intangibles or dominate or make their teammates that much better. And from that perspective, I think the who's better angle can just be a bit over-hyped and over-played. I really only get into it when it comes to Bird b/c to my mind he is GOAT. Though, I honestly think a player like Duncan has a case as well. I have him as a close #2. The whole greatest PF sh** is just an excuse to not talk about him in the running. He gets disrespected even when people are heaping such "high praise."
Great post and you hit the nail on the head. Is Lebron going to get away with doping forever if eventually go down in flames like Barry Bonds? The thing a couple years ago where he lost 30 pounds and looked like a different person after being away from Miami for a couple months, and then instantly bulked back up when he needed to because his game was suffering, was just too obvious. Only in the USA do we ban players like Bonds and Clemens, of UFC roiders who everyone know are juicing, and the pretend that Lebron is clean.

I really think practically everyone in the NBA is juiced to the gills with HGH, steroids, EPO for endurance and other drugs we don't know of. They have never had a high profile star go down, which means they aren't serious about testing. Do people even care? I don't know. But if Bonds and Clemens aren't in the HOF we are pretending to care.

[sasaint]

Len Bias has insane athleticism, the true precursor to Westbrook, too bad.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSLLpiWoiz4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDQnsK6bpPM

The death of Len Bias was the reason the Celtics dynasty ended. Despite the "bought" championship with Ray-Ray, KG and Pierce, the trajectory of the franchise has never recovered from the death of Bias. As a long-time ACC observer, Bias was MJ and David Thompson rolled into one - truly a generational talent.

[bic50]

http://i.imgur.com/nzYVdW4.jpg

This was during MJ's HOF speech. Note the look of disgust on Pop and Tim's faces.

The woman behind tim looks even more disgusted.

[Sean Cagney]

The death of Len Bias was the reason the Celtics dynasty ended. Despite the "bought" championship with Ray-Ray, KG and Pierce, the trajectory of the franchise has never recovered from the death of Bias. As a long-time ACC observer, Bias was MJ and David Thompson rolled into one - truly a generational talent.

The NBA was robbed of an all time great the night that guy died.... What could have been. The Celts went and whiffed on Tim later on too, double whammy to them. Must have sold their souls for all the titles in the 60's and 80's..... Damn.
The woman behind tim looks even more disgusted.

One NBA exec said after words MJ is widely considered the GOAT by man and even then in his HOF speech he is out there still trying to settle scores.. My bet is this was Isiah who said it and he is right.