Keith Smith (@KeithSmithNBA): Spurs Eye Starting DeWayne Dedmon; Gasol Off Bench [Archive]

Chinook

07-17-2016, 12:58 AM

1) The Report:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1465870

(Basically a recap of chatter from front-office guys during the summer league. Posting the entire Spurs section, but the last point is the most important.)

Las Vegas Summer League Notes (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1465870#p48743034) ...

San Antonio

1. They had to bring Manu Ginobili back, but Philadelphia, and maybe Brooklyn, did force them to overpay.

2. They are in love with Ryan Arcidiacono and Bryn Forbes. They think both guys can be NBA players because of their skills. - Note: They signed both yesterday.

3. They think Jonathon Simmons can play a big role this year because of his energy and ability to get to the hoop.

4. They are a little worried about their defense without Tim Duncan, but have big plans for DeWayne Dedmon. Expect Dedmon to start with Pau Gasol as the primary big off the bench.

2) Credibility

Keith Smith is a basketball writer who is a Celtics mod on RealGM (Smitth731). He's basically all of the things you guys like about me and none of the things you guys don't like about me. He's the author of what is easily the most comprehensive spreadsheet out there for NBA salaries:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T2Eg_zvqNqQD_5TpE4Ns6xhElatXdLpYG1roZtRLyvE/edit#gid=1562502222 Like Mark Deeks, he's not the quickest with the news, but he's the most accurate at least when it comes to salaries.

He freely admits he's not a reporter, and if you know of him at all, it's possible that you do because he sort of "broke" a Griffin-to-Boston trade that hasn't happened yet. So right now, he's not on the tier right Woj in terms of dropping bombs. Still, this is Spurstalk, not a court of law.

3) Veracity

I believe Smith did hear the chatter. He has a good track record and does too much other good work for it to make sense for him to damage his credibility about a team/fanbase he probably don't care much about at all. But that's only part of the equation. Who was his source? The big possibility would be RC, since he was there and easily available and would obviously know what the team was thinking. But there were other Spurs' people there, including some FO guys probably and definitely the SL coaching staff. The latter group doesn't really seem to have much credibility, except for maybe Becky. Then there could be their players, but I consider that completely unlikely. Regardless of who said it, I have a hard time believing it. They didn't even know they were going to get Dedmon (although by the time whoever talked to Smith, they did, obviously), I don't think they'd be crazy enough to plan on starting Willie Reed, and he was the runner up.

4) Implications

Like OMG. It's strange to think Pau would be okay with this. But if it were something the Spurs would say during the SL, then you'd have to think they talked to him about it prior to signing him. Whether it works out that Pau comes off the bench or not, it sure does suggest that he's not obsessed with starting. But it does make sense. Off the bench, the Spurs are looking to play one-in-four-out, so he'd probably get a sh'ton of low-post touches he wouldn't necessarily be able to have with the starters. I'd probably be hurt defensively, however, playing without at least one of Green or Kawhi a lot of the time.

For the bench, it would change my projection of their offense. I'd actually expect it to be closer to how the starters roll, with Anderson playing the Kawhi role on offense and Pau playing the LMA role. I don't know how much I would like that. Manu would just sort of be there, like Parker is with the starters. Mills should be fine. And Bertans/Simmons would probably get touches. But I don't think there's a consistent plan of attack with that unit. Just seems like a lot of iso's and jump-shooting. Should help stave off worry about the bench not having talent or go-to offense, though.

For the starters, it sort of allows them to keep their offense from last year. Dedmon doesn't have Tim's upside offensively, but if he can board and finish, he should be able to be more effective than Tim was at the end. Parker gets another PnR partner, which might help him drive more easily. Green gets a dump-off man on his ill-fated drives. For the folks wanting that big roll-man/finisher, you'd be getting your wish. Defensively, the idea of funneling to Dedmon seems interesting. Dude's a talented shot-blocker, and you'd hope Danny and Kawhi would put him in easy-help positions. He can show on the PnR and recover, so that's an improvement over Duncan. But he's also a foul-machine, at least for a potential starter. Tim's best defensive attribute was that he contested so well without fouling. Would be an adjustment.

For Dedmon, I think this would hurt him. The SL won't have the spacing the bench was projected to. I think he's getting third-big minutes no matter where he is in the rotation, so instead of being a pillar of offensive ball-movement as he would be off the bench, he would be the fifth option that'd really only get touches if the third option can't find a way to score. He'd have to live as a garbage man, which is cool, but not as glamorous. Could still end up closing out games if he plays his role well enough, though.

Chinook

07-17-2016, 01:01 AM

tl;dr: Keith Smith is credible, but I'm not sure his source is correct. Would be interesting if they were, though. Pau solves bench scoring issue but probably takes away flow in order to get his touches. Dedmon starting clears a bit of the "only one ball" murkiness of the projected SL, but he probably will have to depend on Parker to get non-garbage buckets. May hurt spacing but should be better defensively than it would have been with Pau if Dewayne can avoid fouling.

ElNono

07-17-2016, 01:10 AM

Thanks for sharing, interesting stuff... hopefully Dedmon lives up to expectations (which shouldn't be to replace Duncan defensively, but do provide some help defending the rim).

Ditty

07-17-2016, 01:15 AM

ElNono

07-17-2016, 01:18 AM

I could see it. Dedmon is going to do all the dirty work, and make it extremely tough to score in the paint against us. Making everything much easier for Aldridge.

That Gasol and Manu pick n roll, and pick n pops off the bench though :wow

Yeah, I'm thinking they want basically an athletic Thiago... low-key, blue-collar guy that complements LMA's weaknesses defensively, while gets out of the way offensively.

Although, I gotta say, I'm not sure if Pau wouldn't start, as suggested, but I can see Pop doing this thing where Pau starts and plays for 5 mins, then plays the bulk of time with the bench + maybe closing out games.

People that aren't excited about all this stuff next season, need to wake up, IMO.

Kawhitstorm

07-17-2016, 01:21 AM

Pau will turn into Diaw 1.0 if he gets benched.:wakeup

Chinook

07-17-2016, 01:22 AM

Yeah, I'm thinking they want basically an athletic Thiago... low-key, blue-collar guy that complements LMA's weaknesses defensively, while gets out of the way offensively.

Although, I gotta say, I'm not sure if Pau wouldn't start, as suggested, but I can see Pop doing this thing where Pau starts and plays for 5 mins, then plays the bulk of time with the bench + maybe closing out games.

People that aren't excited about all this stuff next season, need to wake up, IMO.

Was sort of thinking about something like how Manu used to be where someone else would "start" but not really get the bulk of the playing time. If Pau is okay with not starting, I do like him coming in and providing that extra burst of offense while Dedmon just sort of helps Parker get warmed up. It really comes down to how good Dedmon's man defense is. If he can guard opposing bigs well, I think it'd be best for the team if he started so that LMA could focus on scoring. But if he's just an energy big, then coming off the bench with that pace-and-space second unit seems like the solution.

Chinook

07-17-2016, 01:24 AM

Pau will turn into Diaw 1.0 if he gets benched.:wakeup

That's the fear I have, hence why I'm disinclined to agree with Smith's source. But it being considered the plan so early in the off-season suggests to me that Gasol is at least aware of this plan and has agreed to try it. Colors his signing differently for sure.

Ditty

07-17-2016, 01:24 AM

Yeah, I'm thinking they want basically an athletic Thiago... low-key, blue-collar guy that complements LMA's weaknesses defensively, while gets out of the way offensively.

Although, I gotta say, I'm not sure if Pau wouldn't start, as suggested, but I can see Pop doing this thing where Pau starts and plays for 5 mins, then plays the bulk of time with the bench + maybe closing out games.

People that aren't excited about all this stuff next season, need to wake up, IMO.

Yeah the only reason I can't see Pau not starting is if Aldridge starts off a little rough again which I doubt this year, because I think spacing will be even better with the starting lineup.

I'm super excited! Spurs could throw a nice 8-9 man rotation in the playoffs out there with a ton of potential that can hang with anyone in the league, even the Warriors. Would be nice to see two of our handful of rookies that may be on this team show some great promise also.

gambit1990

07-17-2016, 02:09 AM

i prefer dedmon starting, from a few days ago:

don't see gasol coming off the bench...

but i like this rotation:
lma/robinson
dedmon/gasol

so we'd have have an offensive big & and a young, athletic, rebounder on the court.

Robz4000

07-17-2016, 02:14 AM

I like it a lot tbh. Would speak well of Pau and help kind of set him up as a leader similar to Tim (sacrificing for the greater good). More interested in the Arci/Forbes news, though.

LakerHater

07-17-2016, 02:54 AM

Nah, I dont see it.
Dedmon might get more mins but i dont see him startin over Pau!

jesterbobman

07-17-2016, 02:56 AM

The start, play a short stint then act as a C on the bench seems like the ideal use. Gasol will want (deserve) a larger slice of the offensive pie than Tim, and that either comes at the expense of the other starters (TP could shoot a smudge less, though I don't think Danny should and Kawhi / LMA will continue to get fed).

Gasol at backup C feels like the best use of his strengths and weaknesses, as he can be an ISO / post up big against weaker bigs in second units, and his lack of foot speed shouldn't be as exposed against backup PGs. I'd think similar in usage to Al Jefferson in Charlotte / an ideal use of Vucevic in beating up on backup Centres. It's just hard to get up towards 30 minutes if he comes off the bench - Takes out 5 minutes of rest in the middle(and, Fat Boris concerns)

Start, play ~ 5 minutes, on the bench for the next 5, back on at 2, play until 8 left in second, rest, come with 4 minutes left gives 15 minutes per half, and means his sole big stint should be mostly against backup PGs).

phxspurfan

07-17-2016, 03:07 AM

I dont see it happening but if it does, it would be an interesting exeperiment to save Pau from RS wear and tear. Like how we started one of Bonner or Blair for a time. Pau would likely get bigger minutes come playoff time.

Btw why not start Mills or Manu and have TP run the bench with Murray at backup SG. Its not like the defense would take a huge hit without TP amd against their bench TP could go back to scoring 15 per game

tbdog

07-17-2016, 03:29 AM

SAGirl

07-17-2016, 03:40 AM

Thanks for sharing the scoop!!!!

Taking it with a grain of salt and then some, bc I don't think even the Spurs know yet how they are really going to play. At least the players asked about it didn't know. In one interview Simmons said coaches told him he'd be doing about the same in the RS, but obviously a lot less of it bc of the players that the team has. In another, Anderson was asked how he could translate his success as a first option in SL into the RS and he said he couldn't answer that question well bc he didn't know what role he would be asked to play. It gives perspective to the fact that the players were there working on stuff that were probably weak areas (3 pts shooting for Anderson, playing as a big exclusively, while for Simms, ball handling, decision-making, midrange shooting, defense without fouling etc) but the rest is really up in the air.

I really don't know Dewayne that much. Highlights are not what I consider know some guy, but if he's a better option defensively than this version of Gasol we are getting, I could see Pop doing it to alleviate the burden on LMA since for Pop defense is first and foremost. It might not be above Pop to challenge Gasol's pride to sacrifice for the team in true Spurs fashion, but it's a bit shocking since there was so much press over Gasol forcing Noah to the bench as it was. And really if we are talking about the Spurs signing a dominant big to score in the post for the bench, let's bring out the elephant in the room: they could have signed Boban to that role quite honestly... so it's ??? It doesn't add up.

I also thought a bench that would have a lot of young players none of whom is a defensive presence would be well served by having a defensive big to cover up for the other big likely being Anderson or Bertans.

For the starters, the Spurs offense involved Tim on hi-lo with LMA and Tim made many passes to cutters that Pau is capable of. But taking Pau out of the equation is maybe a way to force LMA and Kawhi into a 2 man game and chemistry that they never developed. Neither guy strikes me as a gifted passer but it might be a way to really force the action between them and have them create for others. It's exciting to see further developments for them as well as for the bench, yet at the same time I am not convinced.

All Mighty Janitor

07-17-2016, 03:43 AM

I never thought of this, because I didn't think Dedmon was that good. If this is true I can get behind it; I trust Pop. This would fix all the potential issues I was thinking the team could have. The starters would be able to play faster and Gasol would stabilize the bench. It allows us to play the same as last year (and into the future), but maybe without the sexy high-low action. Some good wing defenders in front could help Dedmon cut down on fouling so much as well. The more I think about this the more I like it. Hopefully he can learn the offense quickly enough so he doesn't stop things up too much.

slick'81

07-17-2016, 03:51 AM

This isnt about how good dedmon is but you might as well start him.if hes playing well ride him if not then oh well go to gasol.whoever plays the first 4-5 minutes isnt going to matter much

Dont think dedmon will be much use off the pine

SAGirl

07-17-2016, 04:07 AM

The bit about JSimms playing a big role, as a bench scorer? Could he be a guy to start and have Danny reinforce the bench? I am not sure.

All Mighty Janitor

07-17-2016, 04:12 AM

The bit about JSimms playing a big role, as a bench scorer? Could he be a guy to start and have Danny reinforce the bench? I am not sure.
You afraid Simmons is gonna take Kyle's shots? :lol

Ice009

07-17-2016, 04:15 AM

If the Spurs do that, you think Dedmon would only be starting and Pau finishing games? If that is the case, I think Pau might be OK with it if he gets to finish games.

Anyone think Dedmon could become good enough to finish games? I really don't even remember seeing him play last season. Did he get many minutes when Orlando played the Spurs?

SAGirl

07-17-2016, 04:19 AM

You afraid Simmons is gonna take Kyle's shots :lol
No I was considering the possibility for real of Pau in the bench and how maybe Danny can help the bench defense. The bit about JSimms increased role could be about him starting.... you are assuming stuff I didn't type.

It's rather the concern about Pau/ANderson or Pau/Bertans defensively. Kyle was very good defensively last season, but that was as a wing, as a big it's another matter and Bertans it's even more if a question mark. I think they will be alright but it's fine to wonder about that without regard for Anderson shooting, which by the way he was already a lower usage player than Simmons last season. Simmons wasn't a good defender though so I am not sure.

Mnky

07-17-2016, 04:37 AM

No I was considering the possibility for real of Pau in the bench and how maybe Danny can help the bench defense. The bit about JSimms increased role could be about him starting.... you are assuming stuff I didn't type.

It's rather the concern about Pau/ANderson or Pau/Bertans defensively. Kyle was very good defensively last season, but that was as a wing, as a big it's another matter and Bertans it's even more if a question mark. I think they will be alright but it's fine to wonder about that without regard for Anderson shooting, which by the way he was already a lower usage player than Simmons last season. Simmons wasn't a good defender though so I am not sure.

To be fair, the majority of Simmons minutes came against legitimate competition whereas Anderson's bulk came against blown out end of bench guys. If Diaw could play bigs, Kyle should be able. He looked bigger and is a much better rebounder than diaw. I'm looking forward to seeing if Kyle can keep the weight on and be a true 3/4 tweener. He would be a legitimate stretch 4 if he could. I honestly can't wait to see the young guys getting playing time. They need it desperately. That's where players develop the most. Even if they struggle all year, that's fine, by playoff time they will have learned some much needed aspects by simply logging time against NBA players.

I could see a change in rotation to beef the bench, Simmons would fit better with his ability but not sure I trust him enough for legitimate minutes. Only one way to find out if he can tho I guess.

Bertans has always been a wing. He moves like a wing too. Have the spurs given any intention to play him at the 4? I missed something, as most of spurstalk seems to have him pegged as a 4 when he's always been a 3.

slick'81

07-17-2016, 04:41 AM

If the Spurs do that, you think Dedmon would only be starting and Pau finishing games? If that is the case, I think Pau might be OK with it if he gets to finish games.Anyone think Dedmon could become good enough to finish games? I really don't even remember seeing him play last season. Did he get many minutes when Orlando played the Spurs?

hes only averaged 13 min a game in his career

SAGirl

07-17-2016, 04:45 AM

To be fair, the majority of Simmons minutes came against legitimate competition whereas Anderson's bulk came against blown out end of bench guys..
I don't know how you can be legit in stating that when Kyle started games for both Tim and Kawhj and was a regular rotation player which Simmons was not. If anything a great majority of Simmons time was against benches and garbage time games. It was precisely defensive deficiencies and fouling that got him on the deep end of the bench.

Edit: not meant as an attack to Simms it's just the statement was way off. He did go against Curry, Paul, and Irving one game each respctively, but that's far from 900 minutes he averaged for the season. The rest of your post I can get behind but this was inaccurate.

On another note ppl did remark about Simms chemistry with Kawhi and that also made me wonder. ...

spurraider21

07-17-2016, 04:48 AM

i can see why it would make sense, but i have my doubts that dedmon can play starters minutes at this stage... too foul prone

Mnky

07-17-2016, 04:53 AM

I don't know how you can be legit in stating that when Kyle started games for both Tim and Kawhj and was a regular rotation player which Simmons was not. If anything a great majority of Simmons time was against benches and garbage time games. It was precisely defensive deficiencies and fouling that got him on the deep end of the bench.

Pop routinely sent Simmons after the best offensive player on defense to spell Danny and Kawhi. Anderson was routinely the garbage minute star. He constantly closed out games. Your fan goggles Are on a little tight if you don't remember that.

SAGirl

07-17-2016, 05:03 AM

Bertans has always been a wing. He moves like a wing too. Have the spurs given any intention to play him at the 4? I missed something, as most of spurstalk seems to have him pegged as a 4 when he's always been a 3.
He was played as a 4 in SL. I tend to think, based on players interviews that I cited above and observations, that a lot of the stuff seen in SL is a practice, players working on deficiencies and some really experimental stuff that may or may not materialize and in some cases would take years to materialize as players would need to earn roles in the team and are subservient to what the team needs or others ahead of them in a rotation. What that means for Bertans is that Pop will play him where they need him and not where he's best at. It sucks sometimes. He does play like a wing. Pop playing him as a 4 might have been experimental but it's at least something they are considering if they had him play that spot.

SAGirl

07-17-2016, 05:10 AM

Pop routinely sent Simmons after the best offensive player on defense to spell Danny and Kawhi. Anderson was routinely the garbage minute star. He constantly closed out games. Your fan goggles Are on a little tight if you don't remember that.
Here you are not being honest. Simmons was getting trained for his alleged defensive potential so he was assigned difficult matches to learn. He couldn't handle them so he was benched often. But so was Anderson getting trained, who leveraged his length quick hands and savvy and proved a better defender than Simmons on any guy who was not a tiny guard. He actually switched often. Anderson and guarded all sorts of wings from Durant, Wiggins, Stephenson, many others. If Simmons was better he would have been in the playoffs that is simple. I think you are the one who are really being dishonest here, I just don't feel like digging stuff up or stat to argue this.

cutewizard

07-17-2016, 05:15 AM

Yeah, I'm thinking they want basically an athletic Thiago... low-key, blue-collar guy that complements LMA's weaknesses defensively, while gets out of the way offensively.

Although, I gotta say, I'm not sure if Pau wouldn't start, as suggested, but I can see Pop doing this thing where Pau starts and plays for 5 mins, then plays the bulk of time with the bench + maybe closing out games.

People that aren't excited about all this stuff next season, need to wake up, IMO.

-----------------------------------

Perhaps this is the most feasible.

Pau Gasol starts, helps sets the tone with his passing and high basketball IQ, gets an early rest, then comes in with the majority of the bench while Aldridge rests.

So that, in essence, both Gasol and Aldridge are present in the game at all times? For the needed scoring punch.

Just a thought.

Anyway, while waiting for the real games to begin, let's enjoy some nice music once in while fellas.

(WE HAVE EXHAUSTED ALL TOPICS, hahahahahahahaha)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raRaxt_KM9Q

cutewizard

07-17-2016, 05:17 AM

Reviewing Dedmon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-eg2CvZ54M

slick'81

07-17-2016, 05:22 AM

Im rooting for dedmon.undrafted ,bounced around the nba and d-league maybe hell get some steady run here

cutewizard

07-17-2016, 05:26 AM

Strictly speaking we need another big. Who is the back up for Lamarcus?

Bertans is a shooting forward, Kyle is a point forward, we need another big who can rebound and defend.....

BillMc

07-17-2016, 05:57 AM

Old School 44

07-17-2016, 06:05 AM

I hope Dedmon does not become this years Mahinmi.

ceperez

07-17-2016, 06:25 AM

Reviewing Dedmon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-eg2CvZ54M

He doesn't seem to be 7'0" as advertised.

ceperez

07-17-2016, 06:28 AM

Problem with Dedmon starting is that, Spurs will lack passing. That was the problem also last season, but replacing Duncan with Dedmon just makes it worse.

Honestly, Spurs offense has sucked ever since Messina got on board. It has been crap for 2 years in a row. I don't know what happened, it was like Spurs perfected the offense in 2014 and then all of a sudden GSW steals it.

r0drig0lac

07-17-2016, 06:44 AM

Dedmon remember Whiteside, I hope it works

SAGirl

07-17-2016, 07:06 AM

For what it is worth, Pau didn't like coming off the bench at all for the Lakers when Mike D'Antoni couldn't figure out how to use Howard and Pau at the same time. Now granted that was 3 or 4 years ago (can't remember) and in an already terrible situation. Pau may have matured and a selfless team like the Spurs surely is a more conducive environment for sacrifice than Kobe-me land. Still, Pau's history shows benching did not sit well with him.
He forced Noah to the bench in Chicago when Noahs best asset is defense usually a big a coach would like to start. It was said that Noah covering up for Paul wore him down but that might be gossip. A fast paced tempo inn the bench is not ideal for Gasol and as I pointed out if Pop was looking for a bench post scorer they already had Boban.
The truth might be somewhere in the middle: some time with the starters and some with the bench. But the more I consider it. It might be gossip from someone from the coaching staff, maybe even a video guy. When players gave interviews saying they didn't know what roles they would be playing in training camp, that stuff is really up in the air.

SAGirl

07-17-2016, 07:08 AM

SPURt

07-17-2016, 07:09 AM

CGD

07-17-2016, 07:14 AM

It feels like this is where the Spurs are going anyway once they sign Dedmon. The starters need the garbage man a la Splitter. Since LMA is an awesome midrange players in less concerned about spacing than when it was the Splitter/Duncan.

Raven

07-17-2016, 07:28 AM

lol

Raven

07-17-2016, 07:30 AM

exstatic

07-17-2016, 07:37 AM

beirmeistr

07-17-2016, 07:37 AM

I would be shocked if Pau agreed to this setup before he signed. I was lookinf forward to the new Big Three this upcoming season. But whatever the case, Pop is the man with the plan.

Raven

07-17-2016, 07:38 AM

Dedmon remember Whiteside, I hope it works

whiteside has a 7-7 wingspan, dedmon just a 7-4 wingspan though

sasaint

07-17-2016, 07:45 AM

you couldn't miss it if you tried tbh, they went from a 3point shooting team to a mid range jumper shooting team.

Even worse - they became an Iso-centric team.

Ocotillo

07-17-2016, 07:47 AM

Pop wants to win the opening tips........

DJR210

07-17-2016, 07:50 AM

:lmao 30 million on two bench players

From Downtown

07-17-2016, 07:56 AM

:lmao 30 million on two bench pla4yers
One member of the Big 3 has been a bench player for most of his NBA career

r0drig0lac

07-17-2016, 08:03 AM

whiteside has a 7-7 wingspan, dedmon just a 7-4 wingspan though

I agree, it's a big difference, but their style of play seems strangely similar

ceperez

07-17-2016, 08:05 AM

:lmao 30 million on two bench players

For the regular season with weak competition, I would not be surprised if Gasol takes it easy most of the season.

Gasol is likely going to be like Robert Horry. Remember, Horry retired when he was around Gasol's age, so expect Horry treatment from Pop.

Keepin' it real

07-17-2016, 08:06 AM

2. They are in love with Ryan Arcidiacono and Bryn Forbes. They think both guys can be NBA players because of their skills.

That would be HUGE if two undrafted rookies became valuable contributors. Would even further bolster PATFO's rep.

SpursFan86

07-17-2016, 08:34 AM

Like some others have said, I don't hate the idea. Think it could be a viable strategy. Just not sure I believe it however...don't see them bringing in Pau so he can come off the bench, and I'm not sure he'd be fine with that idea.

cd021

07-17-2016, 08:42 AM

I think Dedmon cold play the Blair role of 18-20 mpg while Gasol takes the bulk of the remaining center minutes with maybe LMA sliding over to 5 in certain closeout situation.

The Mills-Manu-Simmons-Anderson four man unit intrigues me though a lot depends on Simmons and Anderson being consistent 3pt shooters to maximize the floor spacing.

Think Bertans and Simmons will be competing for minutes at the 3 but Simmons has the leg up. Like KA as a 4 assuming he can hit corner 3's, and be able to knock down mid range jumpers (he seems to be good at hitting contested pull up J's). He seems to be a better rebounder than Diaw was , and I like the idea of him grabbing a board and pushing it in transition where his man, the opposing PF is put in the position of having to stop ball.

cd021

07-17-2016, 08:44 AM

whiteside has a 7-7 wingspan, dedmon just a 7-4 wingspan though

Arms are still 6 inches longer than his height, that's still pretty impressive

Mikeanaro

07-17-2016, 09:01 AM

Pau will turn into Diaw 1.0 if he gets benched.:wakeup
Doubt it, I find Boris more likeable than Pau as a human being but hell Boris was such a lazy bum, Pau is here to contribute.

SAGirl

07-17-2016, 09:03 AM

:lmao 30 million on two bench players
:lmao
:troll Neither of which might be the best bench players TBH.
:pop: I need my aging vets no matter what! Where's Tony? Where's Bonner? Boban too young.

Spurs9

07-17-2016, 09:04 AM

The question is, if he does well this season can we afford him next season? He has a player option, what if some other team wants to grossly overpay him for what he did this season?

Chinook

07-17-2016, 09:06 AM

The question is, if he does well this season can we afford him next season? He has a player option, what if some other team wants to grossly overpay him for what he did this season?

By itself, that's not a problem. The Spurs will have plenty of cap with comparatively fewer holes than they had this season. But if the team wants to get in on the CP3/Westbrook action, they'll have a much harder time of it if Dedmon opts out (and is worth keeping).

r0drig0lac

07-17-2016, 09:14 AM

Arms are still 6 inches longer than his height, that's still pretty impressive

yes, he's like Jon Jones

All Mighty Janitor

07-17-2016, 10:06 AM

tmtcsc

07-17-2016, 10:55 AM

The Spurs could really use a dynamic 2 guard with handles and an outside shot.

elemento

07-17-2016, 11:06 AM

Keith is a really nice guy and one of the nicest mods on realgm. Said that, I doubt Pau comes off the bench, unless it's a 5 minute start to set the tone defensively and Pau plays 30+ minutes for the rest of the game.

peacemaker885

07-17-2016, 11:58 AM

Meh possible but only because of Manu also coming off the bench IMO. Spurs probably have the most expensive bench next year.

kaji157

07-17-2016, 12:10 PM

It would make sense as Ginobili and the second unit suffered a lot the lack of a good pick and roll man and rim protector. Gasol is Both.

GSH

07-17-2016, 12:21 PM

Dedmon doesn't have Tim's upside offensively

Tim's best defensive attribute was that he contested so well without fouling. Would be an adjustment.

Dedmon doesn't have Tim's upside on offense, but the reality of Tim's offense last season was just not very good. So if we're comparing to last year, Dedmon could actually be a plus on offense. Tim just couldn't finish at the rim last year. So Dedmon would bring a lot to the offense, just by making the easy ones.

Yeah, my first thought was whether Dedmon can stay in the game, as a starter playing against other starters. Hopefully he'll get a starter's respect, but that's not a given. In the paint area, especially, a lot of the fouls are caused by getting there too late and reaching (or trying to jump in front of someone too late). One of the reasons Tim was able to defend without fouling was that he always knew where to be on the floor.

Gasol should be a freaking beast off the bench, and he has the potential to make some of the other bench players better. Manu has developed some great chemistry with other bench bigs, but most of them were pretend-bigs. Manu and Pau could really be something special.

To me, the whole experiment would hinge on how well Dedmon can run the PnR, set screens in general, and understand the defensive rotations. It's sort of cliché, but "all the little things" - like Chinook said at the beginning, the un-glamorous things. The bench definitely gets more dynamic with Gasol. The rest of the starters have what it takes to put up points, but need a legit big helping them get space to operate.

Rumors are worth what you pay for them, and even if this guy didn't make it up, the person who told him could have. The good news is, if they try this and it doesn't work, they can always switch them, and put Gasol in the starter's spot.

Chinook

07-17-2016, 12:31 PM

Keith is a really nice guy and once of the nicest mods on realgm. Said that, I doubt Pau comes off the bench, unless it's a 5 minute start to set the tone defensively and Pau plays 30+ minutes for the rest of the game.

I don't think it would be 30-plus, but I do expect to see him get the bulk of the minutes. I'm thinking like 32 for LMA, 30 for Gasol, 20 for Dedmon and 14 for Anderson at PF (and more at SF). Hopefully, Dewayne is good enough to get more toward 24 minutes (like Green got in 2012 once he became a starter). That would make it easier for the Spurs to deal with any problems Anderson at the four or Simmons at the anything might cause.

You can definitely see why they aren't falling all over themselves promising minutes to free agents. On an average night, they really won't have a lot.

SAGirl

07-17-2016, 01:04 PM

It was a joke.
Lol sorry I missed the sarcasm, I wasn't clear in the statement prior that led to your joke. Room for misunderstanding was a possibility. :tu

SAGirl

07-17-2016, 01:06 PM

The Spurs could really use a dynamic 2 guard with handles and an outside shot.
This is probably Simmons. Might be the opinion of the "leak" source that he will be able to provide what they need thus the statement that they expect him to have a big role this season. I could see it bc he had the occasional scoring explosion when he was able to push the pace in transition and drew fouls, or got to the rim against bad defensive teams that don't get back in transition. That's an element in the bench that only he can provide and that may be the single most significant role that he can fill for them. Everything else would depend on Manu resting or deferring.

wildbill2u

07-17-2016, 03:22 PM

Pau will turn into Diaw 1.0 if he gets benched.:wakeup

That would be a risk for sure unless Pop explored this with him before the signing. Hard for a guy with so many seasons as a starter to see his role start to fade when he's taking less money to come here. I hope he is a high character guy who can put the team first if this is true and a surprise.

objective

07-17-2016, 04:06 PM

He doesn't seem to be 7'0" as advertised.

It's true. 6-10 barefoot, but to be honest, he looks smaller than that. After watching him in some highlights I would have guessed, oh, 6-10 in shoes. Looks smaller than Ayres.

elemento

07-17-2016, 04:20 PM

?
I don't think it would be 30-plus, but I do expect to see him get the bulk of the minutes. I'm thinking like 32 for LMA, 30 for Gasol, 20 for Dedmon and 14 for Anderson at PF (and more at SF). Hopefully, Dewayne is good enough to get more toward 24 minutes (like Green got in 2012 once he became a starter). That would make it easier for the Spurs to deal with any problems Anderson at the four or Simmons at the anything might cause.

You can definitely see why they aren't falling all over themselves promising minutes to free agents. On an average night, they really won't have a lot.

I'm actually glad about it. I'd rather go with the young blood on the team instead of giving key minutes to scrub vets. That's why I was happy about Bass joining the Clippers instead of the Spurs.

ducks

07-17-2016, 04:26 PM

With gasol off the bench Lma and him would not be in each other way
Duncan and Lma were a few times per game

TD 21

07-17-2016, 05:06 PM

It's true. 6-10 barefoot, but to be honest, he looks smaller than that. After watching him in some highlights I would have guessed, oh, 6-10 in shoes. Looks smaller than Ayres.

Barefoot is irrelevant, since they play in shoes, so he's more like 6'11''. Throw in his 7'4'' wingspan and bounce and his size isn't an issue. His strength or lack thereof might be in certain match-ups though.

There's very few 7 footers, even in shoes. Gasol is the rare barefoot one.

?

I'm actually glad about it. I'd rather go with the young blood on the team instead of giving key minutes to scrub vets. That's why I was happy about Bass joining the Clippers instead of the Spurs.

They still need depth. The vast majority focus on the rotation, as if only 9 or 10 players play throughout a season, especially on this team.

Even if they're not necessarily in the rotation full time, they desperately need a power forward that's good enough to be, for a myriad of reasons. 1) If Aldridge/Gasol are injured or give a game off. 2) If the match-ups don't allow for Anderson to get by playing power forward. 3) If Simmons/Bertans aren't good enough to be in the rotation.

For all the obvious reasons, I'll believe this report when I see it.

024

07-17-2016, 05:09 PM

It makes sense since Aldridge and Gasol basically play the same position. Although I'm surprised Gasol would be okay with that.

The Spurs will probably just run isos through LMA and Leonard in the starting unit. Then Gasol can takeover the Diaw playmaking role off the bench along with Manu. At least this way the Spurs don't need to find a true back up PG and can risk it with Murray for a few minutes. Gasol also bolsters a weak Spurs bench that will be made up of a bunch of rookies.

Anderson looked great in SL but that was against scrubs. Hope he proves me wrong and becomes a legitimate rotation player.

elemento

07-17-2016, 05:17 PM

Barefoot is irrelevant, since they play in shoes, so he's more like 6'11''. Throw in his 7'4'' wingspan and bounce and his size isn't an issue. His strength or lack thereof might be in certain match-ups though.

There's very few 7 footers, even in shoes. Gasol is the rare barefoot one.

They still need depth. The vast majority focus on the rotation, as if only 9 or 10 players play throughout a season, especially on this team.

Even if they're not necessarily in the rotation full time, they desperately need a power forward that's good enough to be, for a myriad of reasons. 1) If Aldridge/Gasol are injured or give a game off. 2) If the match-ups don't allow for Anderson to get by playing power forward. 3) If Simmons/Bertans aren't good enough to be in the rotation.

For all the obvious reasons, I'll believe this report when I see it.

Yeah they do need depth and I wouldn't rule out the Spurs going after some vets in bad situations after they get waived, like Landry for example.

SAGirl

07-17-2016, 05:18 PM

They still need depth. The vast majority focus on the rotation, as if only 9 or 10 players play throughout a season, especially on this team.

Even if they're not necessarily in the rotation full time, they desperately need a power forward that's good enough to be, for a myriad of reasons. 1) If Aldridge/Gasol are injured or give a game off. 2) If the match-ups don't allow for Anderson to get by playing power forward. 3) If Simmons/Bertans aren't good enough to be in the rotation.

For all the obvious reasons, I'll believe this report when I see it.
I think the issue is finding a vet min player that is willing to accept that role. Last season for example Rasual played early but as Anderson and Simmons started to get chances and Pop build some trust, Rasual was pushed way back in the rotation even though he could still play, and actually did play better than Simmons after the RR. Spurs have to find a vet in this mold, someone who can still play and yet whose ego won't get in the way if Anderson/Simmons/Bertans come swinging out of the gate and end up eating a lot of minutes for Pop... or be ready to come in and play in case they don't. I think Boris was important for Pop in that role, not only as a vet who could still play at a high level, but one who didn't mind mentoring and had no ego issues with Anderson getting minutes.

There were comments in another thread though that there are likely to be guys waived after team's training camps and such, so it's not out of the possibility that they leave a spot open to pick up someone off the waiver wire for this role.

TD 21

07-17-2016, 05:29 PM

I think the issue is finding a vet min player that is willing to accept that role. Last season for example Rasual played early but as Anderson and Simmons started to get chances and Pop build some trust, Rasual was pushed way back in the rotation even though he could still play, and actually did play better than Simmons after the RR. Spurs have to find a vet in this mold, someone who can still play and yet whose ego won't get in the way if Anderson/Simmons/Bertans come swinging out of the gate and end up eating a lot of minutes for Pop... or be ready to come in and play in case they don't. I think Boris was important for Pop in that role, not only as a vet who could still play at a high level, but one who didn't mind mentoring and had no ego issues with Anderson getting minutes.

There were comments in another thread though that there are likely to be guys waived after team's training camps and such, so it's not out of the possibility that they leave a spot open to pick up someone off the waiver wire for this role.

Yeah, I suspect this is precisely the type of power forward they're after; someone good enough to still be a rotation player, but willing to accept not necessarily being one. This is why it's probably highly unlikely they'd sign one of the former big names (Stoudemire, Boozer, Lee, Smith).

MaNu4Tres

07-17-2016, 06:01 PM

Yeah, I suspect this is precisely the type of power forward they're after; someone good enough to still be a rotation player, but willing to accept not necessarily being one. This is why it's probably highly unlikely they'd sign one of the former big names (Stoudemire, Boozer, Lee, Smith).

I really was disappointed the Spurs couldn't get Acy or Bass -- I preferred Acy. I'm hoping they stay away from an older veteran. Best hope now is Thomas Robinson.. sigh.

TD 21

07-17-2016, 06:10 PM

I really was disappointed the Spurs couldn't get Acy or Bass -- I preferred Acy. I'm hoping they stay away from an older veteran. Best hope now is Thomas Robinson.. sigh.

The whole front court bench can't be littered with moderately - unproven NBA players. This isn't a re-building team or the D-League.

Robinson only made sense before Dedmon. After Dedmon, Acy or Bennett made more sense.

MaNu4Tres

07-17-2016, 06:13 PM

The whole front court bench can't be littered with moderately - unproven NBA players. This isn't a re-building team or the D-League.

Robinson only made sense before Dedmon. After Dedmon, Acy or Bennett made more sense.

No I agree. Spurs have to get better depth in the front-court for the bench. Can't go into the season with Anderson and LJC as the only PFs after Alridge. Who do you prefer they go after now at PF? Lee? Jason Thompson? JJ Hickson? Ryan Kelly? Boozer? Stoudamire? Bonner?

DJR210

07-17-2016, 06:20 PM

One member of the Big 3 has been a bench player for most of his NBA career

:lol c'mon guy we all knew Manu only came off the bench to better the team

Proxy

07-17-2016, 06:26 PM

With gasol off the bench Lma and him would not be in each other way
Duncan and Lma were a few times per game

regardless, I'm sure Pau and LMA will be the regular closing unit

TD 21

07-17-2016, 06:34 PM

No I agree. Spurs have to get better depth in the front-court for the bench. Can't go into the season with Anderson and LJC as the only PFs after Alridge. Who do you prefer they go after now at PF? Lee? Jason Thompson? JJ Hickson? Ryan Kelly? Boozer? Stoudamire? Bonner?

I'd probably wait out the Hawks, 76ers and Timberwolves situations first, to see who shakes loose.

Hickson is an older Robinson: A center (offensively), in a power forwards body.

I really don't want to have to resort to one of the former big names, for all the obvious reasons. If worse comes to worst, I might go with Thompson. Doesn't stand out in any area, but isn't a complete and total non shooter like Robinson/Hickson and was never a credible enough name to think he's above being a fringe - non rotation player.

MaNu4Tres

07-17-2016, 06:45 PM

I'd probably wait out the Hawks, 76ers and Timberwolves situations first, to see who shakes loose.

Hickson is an older Robinson: A center (offensively), in a power forwards body.

I really don't want to have to resort to one of the former big names, for all the obvious reasons. If worse comes to worst, I might go with Thompson. Doesn't stand out in any area, but isn't a complete and total non shooter like Robinson/Hickson and was never a credible enough name to think he's above being a fringe - non rotation player.

I think they have to sign someone though, I agree about Thompson. I'd try to cut ties w/ LJC and leave a roster spot open until after the Hawks, 76ers, T-wolves situation pans out.

ceperez

07-17-2016, 07:07 PM

I think they have to sign someone though, I agree about Thompson. I'd try to cut ties w/ LJC and leave a roster spot open until after the Hawks, 76ers, T-wolves situation pans out.

Spurs aren't going to get any player that's in the prime of his career. Nobody is going to take a vet. min. salary knowing he's going to play behind 3 other bigs.

Spurs are in a real bind here.

YGWHI

07-17-2016, 07:14 PM

I can't see Pau accepting it. Anyway, I wonder when the Spurs will learn from their mistakes.

Killing spacing in the starting lineup, again?

Also, despite who will start, the Spurs will play a guy out of position to defend and rebound in the paint, again.

Last year, D-West, now Kyle.

SAGirl

07-17-2016, 07:58 PM

754446257452642304

YGWHI

07-17-2016, 08:25 PM

With Ginobili? Oh...Manu will start too

FkLA

07-17-2016, 09:09 PM

How is this 4 pages? MVPau isn't coming off the bench. There's other ways to get him minutes with the bench unit. Kawhi and LMA play the majority of 1st/3rd Qtrs. Sub MVPau after the first 6 mins or so then bring him back in when Kawhi and LMA are on the bench. Seems so much simpler than risking damaging MVPau's psyche. I think Pop is smart enough to realize that tbh.

Mnky

07-17-2016, 09:36 PM

He was played as a 4 in SL. I tend to think, based on players interviews that I cited above and observations, that a lot of the stuff seen in SL is a practice, players working on deficiencies and some really experimental stuff that may or may not materialize and in some cases would take years to materialize as players would need to earn roles in the team and are subservient to what the team needs or others ahead of them in a rotation. What that means for Bertans is that Pop will play him where they need him and not where he's best at. It sucks sometimes. He does play like a wing. Pop playing him as a 4 might have been experimental but it's at least something they are considering if they had him play that spot.

Well if Durant's skinny butt can do it, I guess it's worth giving Bertan's a try. Today's small ball might not makeit much of a deal though.

Sean Cagney

07-17-2016, 10:18 PM

He signed to start, no doubt he will start (Pau). Tim retiring opened up that slot.

slick'81

07-17-2016, 10:21 PM

He signed to start, no doubt he will start (Pau). Tim retiring opened up that slot.

bb but dedmon is the next tiago dont you know?lol

Sean Cagney

07-17-2016, 10:28 PM

bb but dedmon is the next tiago dont you know?lol

He is the next Elson in all probability :lol. I can see our fans hyping him up though some already, I expect little out of him tbh.

ElNono

07-17-2016, 10:29 PM

He signed to start, no doubt he will start (Pau). Tim retiring opened up that slot.

I think so too, tbh... I just hope neither him or LMA start pouting about touches, tbh... especially now that Tim isn't there to set the tone.

GSH

07-18-2016, 12:14 AM

Barefoot is irrelevant, since they play in shoes

Barefoot is anything but irrelevant. It's the only way to compare apples to apples. Guys who were worried about being too short have shown up for measurements in ridiculously high shoes that nobody could actually play in. Barefoot is the ONLY true measurement of how tall a player is. Yeah, they all pay in shoes. But putting on 6-inch soled shoes won't turn a 6'6" guy into a 7-footer (who can actually run the court). If that worked, the 7-foot guys would wear them, and become 7'6" monsters.

Measure 'em barefoot, for comparison, and then they can wear whatever shoe they think lets them be most competitive.

TD 21

07-18-2016, 12:42 AM

Barefoot is anything but irrelevant. It's the only way to compare apples to apples. Guys who were worried about being too short have shown up for measurements in ridiculously high shoes that nobody could actually play in. Barefoot is the ONLY true measurement of how tall a player is. Yeah, they all pay in shoes. But putting on 6-inch soled shoes won't turn a 6'6" guy into a 7-footer (who can actually run the court). If that worked, the 7-foot guys would wear them, and become 7'6" monsters.

Measure 'em barefoot, for comparison, and then they can wear whatever shoe they think lets them be most competitive.

The point remains: If he's 6'10'' barefoot, then he plays at roughly 6'11'' - 6'11'' and 1/2 depending on the shoe.

GSH

07-18-2016, 12:56 AM

He is the next Elson in all probability :lol. I can see our fans hyping him up though some already, I expect little out of him tbh.

Elson always seemed under-motivated to me. If the article is real, and the Spurs are considering this, they must think Dedmon could be up to it, and that Pau would be okay with it. If Dedmon isn't up to it, or Pau won't stand for coming off the bench, then the original source for the article is full of shit, and it's not worth discussing.

I don't have any way of knowing which is which. I'm pretty sure Pau could/would kick some serious ass as part of a second unit. Dedmon is the big question mark.

I will say this - Dedmon started 20 games last year. In those 20 starts, he had 3 BLK's on four occasions, and 2 BLK's once. That's not too shabby on the rim-protection front. He also picked up at least one steal 18 times, which is also not too bad for a guy playing only 58 games, and averaging just over 12 minutes. So, yeah, he has shown some good defensive skills.

His offensive numbers aren't impressive, but surprisingly his per-36 points and rebounds were higher than Tim's last year. He even got to the FT line more often (per 36 minutes) than Tim did last year. (I know it sounds crazy, but you can look it up.) What we don't know from that, is whether Dedmon could stand up to a big increase in minutes, and if his production would hold.

One big thing about Dedmon that I haven't see mentioned, is that he hasn't been very good at passing out of the post. He seldom has even one AST in a game, and he only had more than one AST twice. (Both times 2 assists.) He averaged .7 AST/36 last year, compared to Duncan's 3.8 AST/36. Even though Tim's performance was off in a lot of areas last season, his passing ability (and AST numbers) were undiminished. That's a difference that is going to be felt, while Dedmon is on the floor. That's part of the reason I said that he's going to come out and set good screens to help other guys get space to operate - because he's probably not going to do much to help them get open shots with his passing.

GSH

07-18-2016, 01:11 AM

The point remains: If he's 6'10'' barefoot, then he plays at roughly 6'11'' - 6'11'' and 1/2 depending on the shoe.

Look, I'm not going to get baited into any ridiculous arguments tonight. Putting on taller shoes works for team photos. It doesn't make you a bigger player on the court. If you're going to add shoe height to a 6'10" guy, then you have to add shoe height to the 7' guys too - so the only way to compare players legitimately is barefoot.

If you won't/can't see that, it's not worth arguing about.

lilbthebasedgod

07-18-2016, 01:39 AM

Make's me have more hope we can get to around 55 wins.

bklynspursfan

07-18-2016, 07:31 AM

754363837873217540

Chinook

07-18-2016, 07:37 AM

754363837873217540

It's not going to be very fun with them not playing together.

Killakobe81

07-18-2016, 07:46 AM

1) The Report:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1465870

(Basically a recap of chatter from front-office guys during the summer league. Posting the entire Spurs section, but the last point is the most important.)

2) Credibility

Keith Smith is a basketball writer who is a Celtics mod on RealGM (Smitth731). He's basically all of the things you guys like about me and none of the things you guys don't like about me. He's the author of what is easily the most comprehensive spreadsheet out there for NBA salaries:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T2Eg_zvqNqQD_5TpE4Ns6xhElatXdLpYG1roZtRLyvE/edit#gid=1562502222 Like Mark Deeks, he's not the quickest with the news, but he's the most accurate at least when it comes to salaries.

He freely admits he's not a reporter, and if you know of him at all, it's possible that you do because he sort of "broke" a Griffin-to-Boston trade that hasn't happened yet. So right now, he's not on the tier right Woj in terms of dropping bombs. Still, this is Spurstalk, not a court of law.

3) Veracity

I believe Smith did hear the chatter. He has a good track record and does too much other good work for it to make sense for him to damage his credibility about a team/fanbase he probably don't care much about at all. But that's only part of the equation. Who was his source? The big possibility would be RC, since he was there and easily available and would obviously know what the team was thinking. But there were other Spurs' people there, including some FO guys probably and definitely the SL coaching staff. The latter group doesn't really seem to have much credibility, except for maybe Becky. Then there could be their players, but I consider that completely unlikely. Regardless of who said it, I have a hard time believing it. They didn't even know they were going to get Dedmon (although by the time whoever talked to Smith, they did, obviously), I don't think they'd be crazy enough to plan on starting Willie Reed, and he was the runner up.

4) Implications

Like OMG. It's strange to think Pau would be okay with this. But if it were something the Spurs would say during the SL, then you'd have to think they talked to him about it prior to signing him. Whether it works out that Pau comes off the bench or not, it sure does suggest that he's not obsessed with starting. But it does make sense. Off the bench, the Spurs are looking to play one-in-four-out, so he'd probably get a sh'ton of low-post touches he wouldn't necessarily be able to have with the starters. I'd probably be hurt defensively, however, playing without at least one of Green or Kawhi a lot of the time.

For the bench, it would change my projection of their offense. I'd actually expect it to be closer to how the starters roll, with Anderson playing the Kawhi role on offense and Pau playing the LMA role. I don't know how much I would like that. Manu would just sort of be there, like Parker is with the starters. Mills should be fine. And Bertans/Simmons would probably get touches. But I don't think there's a consistent plan of attack with that unit. Just seems like a lot of iso's and jump-shooting. Should help stave off worry about the bench not having talent or go-to offense, though.

For the starters, it sort of allows them to keep their offense from last year. Dedmon doesn't have Tim's upside offensively, but if he can board and finish, he should be able to be more effective than Tim was at the end. Parker gets another PnR partner, which might help him drive more easily. Green gets a dump-off man on his ill-fated drives. For the folks wanting that big roll-man/finisher, you'd be getting your wish. Defensively, the idea of funneling to Dedmon seems interesting. Dude's a talented shot-blocker, and you'd hope Danny and Kawhi would put him in easy-help positions. He can show on the PnR and recover, so that's an improvement over Duncan. But he's also a foul-machine, at least for a potential starter. Tim's best defensive attribute was that he contested so well without fouling. Would be an adjustment.

For Dedmon, I think this would hurt him. The SL won't have the spacing the bench was projected to. I think he's getting third-big minutes no matter where he is in the rotation, so instead of being a pillar of offensive ball-movement as he would be off the bench, he would be the fifth option that'd really only get touches if the third option can't find a way to score. He'd have to live as a garbage man, which is cool, but not as glamorous. Could still end up closing out games if he plays his role well enough, though.

I always thought larry coon was the best salary/cap guy isnt that who DPG (and guys on LG) use for those questions?

Chinook

07-18-2016, 07:49 AM

I always thought larry coon was the best salary/cap guy isnt that who DPG (and guys on LG) use for those questions?

Coon is the best CBA guy. But if you click the link to Smith's spreadsheet, you'd see just how jam-packed it is with info.

MaNu4Tres

07-18-2016, 08:04 AM

I can see Dedmon subbing in at the 6 minute mark for Gasol and playing with both the starters and bench in both halfs, much like Manu has done most of his career.

That scenario will allow Gasol to do the same.

look_at_g_shred

07-18-2016, 08:40 AM

Don't see this happening at all.

SAGirl

07-18-2016, 09:56 AM

Kind of think at this point some ppl are expecting too much of Dedmon. I question his fit with the starters unless LMA makes some quantum leap development as a passer bc neither big generates assists.

If anything that burdens Tony more to be the one moving the ball, perhaps Kawhi who is also not a special player passing the ball. Maybe Kawhi makes a leap in that category this season.

I really think we are bound to play more small ball and not Twin Towers the entire game. LMA will play as a 5 on occasion and so will Pau.

littlecoyotecoin

07-18-2016, 10:47 AM

You may want to look in the mirror just a LITTLE.

SAGirl

07-18-2016, 10:57 AM

You may want to look in the mirror just a LITTLE.
:lol maybe.

Ed Helicopter Jones

07-18-2016, 11:17 AM

Dedmon starting???

It's going to be a long season.

playbonner15

07-18-2016, 11:30 AM

Just means more BonBon time if Gasoft goes down :hungry:

DAF86

07-18-2016, 01:05 PM

Pau doesn't strike me as the guy that would be cool with that.

BillMc

07-18-2016, 01:09 PM

754363837873217540

By the time Murray is ready, Manu and likely Patty will be gone. Also, don't see Pop abandoning Kyle unless he plays awful.

San Antonio Slayer

07-18-2016, 02:57 PM

Also, don't see Pop abandoning Kyle unless he plays awful.
his running in SL was even more awful than last season that's for sure))) looks like he gained some weight but all came into his butt.

poeticism707

07-18-2016, 03:15 PM

1) The Report:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1465870

(Basically a recap of chatter from front-office guys during the summer league. Posting the entire Spurs section, but the last point is the most important.)

2) Credibility

Keith Smith is a basketball writer who is a Celtics mod on RealGM (Smitth731). He's basically all of the things you guys like about me and none of the things you guys don't like about me. He's the author of what is easily the most comprehensive spreadsheet out there for NBA salaries:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T2Eg_zvqNqQD_5TpE4Ns6xhElatXdLpYG1roZtRLyvE/edit#gid=1562502222 Like Mark Deeks, he's not the quickest with the news, but he's the most accurate at least when it comes to salaries.

He freely admits he's not a reporter, and if you know of him at all, it's possible that you do because he sort of "broke" a Griffin-to-Boston trade that hasn't happened yet. So right now, he's not on the tier right Woj in terms of dropping bombs. Still, this is Spurstalk, not a court of law.

3) Veracity

I believe Smith did hear the chatter. He has a good track record and does too much other good work for it to make sense for him to damage his credibility about a team/fanbase he probably don't care much about at all. But that's only part of the equation. Who was his source? The big possibility would be RC, since he was there and easily available and would obviously know what the team was thinking. But there were other Spurs' people there, including some FO guys probably and definitely the SL coaching staff. The latter group doesn't really seem to have much credibility, except for maybe Becky. Then there could be their players, but I consider that completely unlikely. Regardless of who said it, I have a hard time believing it. They didn't even know they were going to get Dedmon (although by the time whoever talked to Smith, they did, obviously), I don't think they'd be crazy enough to plan on starting Willie Reed, and he was the runner up.

4) Implications

Like OMG. It's strange to think Pau would be okay with this. But if it were something the Spurs would say during the SL, then you'd have to think they talked to him about it prior to signing him. Whether it works out that Pau comes off the bench or not, it sure does suggest that he's not obsessed with starting. But it does make sense. Off the bench, the Spurs are looking to play one-in-four-out, so he'd probably get a sh'ton of low-post touches he wouldn't necessarily be able to have with the starters. I'd probably be hurt defensively, however, playing without at least one of Green or Kawhi a lot of the time.

For the bench, it would change my projection of their offense. I'd actually expect it to be closer to how the starters roll, with Anderson playing the Kawhi role on offense and Pau playing the LMA role. I don't know how much I would like that. Manu would just sort of be there, like Parker is with the starters. Mills should be fine. And Bertans/Simmons would probably get touches. But I don't think there's a consistent plan of attack with that unit. Just seems like a lot of iso's and jump-shooting. Should help stave off worry about the bench not having talent or go-to offense, though.

For the starters, it sort of allows them to keep their offense from last year. Dedmon doesn't have Tim's upside offensively, but if he can board and finish, he should be able to be more effective than Tim was at the end. Parker gets another PnR partner, which might help him drive more easily. Green gets a dump-off man on his ill-fated drives. For the folks wanting that big roll-man/finisher, you'd be getting your wish. Defensively, the idea of funneling to Dedmon seems interesting. Dude's a talented shot-blocker, and you'd hope Danny and Kawhi would put him in easy-help positions. He can show on the PnR and recover, so that's an improvement over Duncan. But he's also a foul-machine, at least for a potential starter. Tim's best defensive attribute was that he contested so well without fouling. Would be an adjustment.

For Dedmon, I think this would hurt him. The SL won't have the spacing the bench was projected to. I think he's getting third-big minutes no matter where he is in the rotation, so instead of being a pillar of offensive ball-movement as he would be off the bench, he would be the fifth option that'd really only get touches if the third option can't find a way to score. He'd have to live as a garbage man, which is cool, but not as glamorous. Could still end up closing out games if he plays his role well enough, though.

I could easily see this happening.

I think Dedmon has the potential to be a a great overall

contributor, because of PnR, in the same vein as

Deandre Jordan. But first, he must prove

he ain't a fouling machine...

TD 21

07-18-2016, 04:02 PM

Look, I'm not going to get baited into any ridiculous arguments tonight. Putting on taller shoes works for team photos. It doesn't make you a bigger player on the court. If you're going to add shoe height to a 6'10" guy, then you have to add shoe height to the 7' guys too - so the only way to compare players legitimately is barefoot.

If you won't/can't see that, it's not worth arguing about.

Seems to me that's precisely what you've attempted to initiate, you grumpy old fuck. Obviously, you have to add shoe height to a player of any size and as I alluded to, basketball shoes typically add 1 - 1 and 1/2 inches.

tonight...you

07-18-2016, 04:45 PM

By the time Murray is ready, Manu and likely Patty will be gone. Also, don't see Pop abandoning Kyle unless he plays awful.
Rock climbing, Bill. Rock climbing.
http://images.fandango.com/r101.0/ImageRenderer/300/0/redesign/static/img/noxsquare.jpg/118369/images/masterrepository/fandango/193694/mothra_250x375_r2.jpg

Must see!

GSH

07-18-2016, 05:12 PM

Seems to me that's precisely what you've attempted to initiate, you grumpy old fuck. Obviously, you have to add shoe height to a player of any size and as I alluded to, basketball shoes typically add 1 - 1 and 1/2 inches.

LOL... I understand why you don't get this. Under-sized players want to list their height wearing shoes for the same reason you stuff that sock in your underwear. :lol

TimDunkem

07-18-2016, 05:39 PM

GSH is talking from experience.

tonight...you

07-18-2016, 05:52 PM

LOL... I understand why you don't get this. Under-sized players want to list their height wearing shoes for the same reason you stuff that sock in your underwear. :lol
I laughed. I laughed hard.

cjw

07-18-2016, 05:53 PM

He only played 13 min a season in a organization with very little identity. I wonder what the Spurs see that others teams don't? Hopefully he can pass but since he's been surrounded by non shooters in Orlando and played in such limited minutes it's hard to see. The sample size is just so small.

Steven Adams is 5 years younger and only saw a season with 15 min or less his rookie season, but for what it's worth (very little), their per 36 numbers are very similar.

I think the Warriors also expressed some interest in Dedmon, for what it's worth.

He'll be 27 when the season starts and has only played 1,940 minutes in his career (for comparison, Lebron has logged almost 1,700 the past two postseasons alone). Per 36 minutes are solid, should get looks at the rim (65% finisher from close) and isn't a total liability from the FT line. He's not a floor stretcher by any means, but can hit from 10ish feet, so isn't a clog for floor spacing.

I think the most telling point is he's been a net positive in his time with Orlando - 111 oRTG and 103 dRTG. That's for a team that's been about 103 oRTG and 107 dRTG over the course of his time there. So 8 points better offensively and 4 better defensively (+12), though not a huge bar to clear playing with such a poor team - not to mention competition is likely almost exclusively benches.

TD 21

07-18-2016, 06:40 PM

LOL... I understand why you don't get this. Under-sized players want to list their height wearing shoes for the same reason you stuff that sock in your underwear. :lol

I get it, genius. I'm just saying, to use Dedmon as an example, I'd rather say he's 6-11-ish than his barefoot and (in his case, at least) in shoes listing, since neither is an accurate measure of what he plays at.

BillMc

07-18-2016, 09:15 PM

Rock climbing, Bill. Rock climbing.
http://images.fandango.com/r101.0/ImageRenderer/300/0/redesign/static/img/noxsquare.jpg/118369/images/masterrepository/fandango/193694/mothra_250x375_r2.jpg

Must see!

:toast:toast:toast

Man, I'd love to see that in a theater. But doubt I'll be able to in Eastern Europe.

dabom

09-28-2016, 05:46 PM

:lol

Chinook

09-28-2016, 05:47 PM

I see the forum's soggy biscuit is begging for another round.

dabom

09-28-2016, 05:48 PM

Low IQ vanilla mainstream (realgm) fans. :lol

dabom

09-28-2016, 05:49 PM

People actually pay attention when I post. :lol

Chinook

09-28-2016, 05:54 PM

^Literally not seeing any of this.

TD 21

09-28-2016, 05:55 PM

K...

09-28-2016, 05:55 PM

People actually pay attention when I post. :lol

Ok can you explain why Chinook's original analysis is so bad, or can you summarize his points? I feel like your kind of out of your depth here.

dabom

09-28-2016, 05:57 PM

Ok can you explain why Chinook's original analysis is so bad, or can you summarize his points? I feel like your kind of out of your depth here.

Read title*. Dude isn't gonna start. Fin. :lol

dabom

09-28-2016, 05:58 PM

Be careful, lest you be ignored for disagreeing with him. I know how much that upsets him. :cry

:lmao At this arrogant, hateful, condescending, overly sensitive, overly serious, unaware, long winded know it all, that doesn't even have the testicular fortitude to admit wrong on a message board.

The guy has been consistently wrong on tons of shit. Flipping a coin on some of these discussions could probably do better. :lol

Chinook

09-28-2016, 06:03 PM

Ok can you explain why Chinook's original analysis is so bad, or can you summarize his points? I feel like your kind of out of your depth here.

I mean, the OP literally says I don't believe Dedmon would be the starter but that it would be cool. And my next two posts reiterate that.

apalisoc_9

09-28-2016, 06:06 PM

SAGirl

09-28-2016, 06:07 PM

way to make this about Leonard lol

Chinook

09-28-2016, 06:07 PM

Chinook really never admits mistake tbh. :lol

How many times I have told him he was wrong about Leonard...how many times he continues to keep up with the same mentality and reasoning about leonard.

Really stubborn.

Which time about Leonard? Remember, you're the dude who made a thread dedicated to Kawhi's physical attractiveness, so there's a lot of things you say that I sort of tune out.

Chinook

09-28-2016, 06:08 PM

way to make this about Leonard lol

Didn't you forget to mention Kyle in that post?

By the way, Danny Green.

dabom

09-28-2016, 06:08 PM

Chinook really never admits mistake tbh. :lol

How many times I have told him he was wrong about Leonard...how many times he continues to keep up with the same mentality and reasoning about leonard.

Really stubborn.

Dude wanted Dworst(redcoat) as our fucking starting center. :lmao

monkeypunk

09-28-2016, 06:10 PM

The guy has been consistently wrong on tons of shit. Flipping a coin on some of these discussions could probably do better. :lol

At least Chinook has takes that he can back up with analysis.

He may not always be right but you and your alts / boyfriends just spout Cubby level shite constantly.

Just shut the fuck up already, tbh...

dabom

09-28-2016, 06:11 PM

At least Chinook has takes that he can back up with analysis.

You and your alts / boyfriends just spout Cubby level shite constantly. Just shut the fuck up already, tbh...

What analysis? :lmao

dabom

09-28-2016, 06:12 PM

I don't see how people say" well he does suck at posting, but he backs up his shit posting with "analysis"". :lmao

monkeypunk

09-28-2016, 06:13 PM

What analysis? :lmao

Seriously, fathead = they were selling your shit = shut the fuck up already

dabom

09-28-2016, 06:16 PM

Seriously, fathead = they were selling your shit = shut the fuck up already

You're the equivalent of a faggot white knight. :lmao

dabom

09-28-2016, 06:21 PM

MTFR is a mod of the think thank. Of course no one goes there. :lol

TD 21

09-28-2016, 06:22 PM

Dude wanted Dworst(redcoat) as our fucking starting center. :lmao

:lmao I'm paraphrasing, but he also claimed that Sullinger could do it all . . . only to admit that he'd never actually seen him play and was basing this off of YouTube highlights.

What an insufferable, miserable fool.

ceperez

09-28-2016, 06:23 PM

dabom

09-28-2016, 06:25 PM

:lmao I'm paraphrasing, but he also claimed that Sullinger could do it all . . . only to admit that he'd never actually seen him play and was basing this off of YouTube highlights.

What an insufferable, miserable fool.

:lmao

Dude also wanted players to bite on the 3 point line. :lmao

Chinook

09-28-2016, 06:25 PM

I wouldn't disagree with Pau coming of the bench.

The bench doesn't seem to have enough fire power.... mills, manu, anderson, lee and dedmon would be a problem. Who's the go to guy? Let's hope it's not Manu!

Yes, this is why I thought it would be a good move, in addition to not taking shots from LMA and Kawhi, providing mobile defense for the starters and bringing back the PnR game.

dabom

09-28-2016, 06:25 PM

I think my nig gambit can give you a couple more. :lol

dabom

09-28-2016, 06:29 PM

I'm done picking on the guy. If he showed any credibility by admitting error, I wouldn't really care.

SAGirl

09-28-2016, 06:36 PM

Didn't you forget to mention Kyle in that post?

By the way, Danny Green.
:lol
You are on fire still lol

SAGirl

09-28-2016, 06:46 PM

I wouldn't disagree with Pau coming of the bench.

The bench doesn't seem to have enough fire power.... mills, manu, anderson, lee and dedmon would be a problem. Who's the go to guy? Let's hope it's not Manu!
It made sense, but Pau's ego would not allow it to happen. I suppose in the playoffs if dudes are struggling Pop will do whatever it takes to win and so would the guys. That includes starting or benching dudes as he sess fit. He has also split dudes up to win games and the players know it. It's almost a different ballgame.

For the Regular Season, he will be stubborn and stick with his lineups, specially starting lineups. It makes sense in the way that these guys have to get chemistry playing together and sometimes it requires a lot of repetition and time. In the bench I think he will push guys and allow them some leeway to develop chemistry as well, maybe making more adjustments between a perimeter lineup that plays 4 out and 1 center, and a more traditional lineup with two traditional bigs. Whatever works best. I get a sense he doesn't know yet and may have two styles cooking up for different situations. I am hoping the burden is not on Manu too.

sasaint

09-28-2016, 07:02 PM

It made sense, but Pau's ego would not allow it to happen. I suppose in the playoffs if dudes are struggling Pop will do whatever it takes to win and so would the guys. That includes starting or benching dudes as he sess fit. He has also split dudes up to win games and the players know it. It's almost a different ballgame.

For the Regular Season, he will be stubborn and stick with his lineups, specially starting lineups. It makes sense in the way that these guys have to get chemistry playing together and sometimes it requires a lot of repetition and time. In the bench I think he will push guys and allow them some leeway to develop chemistry as well, maybe making more adjustments between a perimeter lineup that plays 4 out and 1 center, and a more traditional lineup with two traditional bigs. Whatever works best. I get a sense he doesn't know yet and may have two styles cooking up for different situations. I am hoping the burden is not on Manu too.

I firmly expect the go-to guy for the bench to be Kyle unless he falls on his face. Then the Spurs will be in trouble, and it will be Maanu to the rescue. However, as last season progressed we already saw Manu transitioning to more of a spot-up 3-point shooter. I expect him to fill that role more and more, which is obviously much less wear and tear on his old body. Kyle will be the primary playmaker.

ceperez

09-28-2016, 07:09 PM

I firmly expect the go-to guy for the bench to be Kyle unless he falls on his face. Then the Spurs will be in trouble, and it will be Maanu to the rescue. However, as last season progressed we already saw Manu transitioning to more of a spot-up 3-point shooter. I expect him to fill that role more and more, which is obviously much less wear and tear on his old body. Kyle will be the primary playmaker.

Kyle would have to make a massive improvement from last season to become the go to guy. I think he'll be serviceable, but not a focal point of offense.

Lee and Dedmon together is problematic since both can't spread the floor.

Unless the plan is for small ball 2nd unit: Mills, Manu, Bertans, Anderson, Dedmon . A little better offense, but no where near elite.

BTW.... this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRZdDdvw_yA is crazy enough a player to stick with the Spurs.

sasaint

09-28-2016, 07:22 PM

Kyle would have to make a massive improvement from last season to become the go to guy. I think he'll be serviceable, but not a focal point of offense.

Lee and Dedmon together is problematic since both can't spread the floor.

Unless the plan is for small ball 2nd unit: Mills, Manu, Bertans, Anderson, Dedmon . A little better offense, but no where near elite.

BTW.... this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRZdDdvw_yA is crazy enough a player to stick with the Spurs.

I think Simmons will be pressed by several of the Spurs' summer signees. Laprovittola has a good shot to stick - possibly at Simmons' expense.

ElNono

09-28-2016, 08:00 PM

hsxvvd

09-29-2016, 05:06 AM

SAGirl

09-29-2016, 06:20 AM

The reason we missed out on Pau the first time was we refused to guarantee a starting spot, Chicago did, got him, and were stuck committed to that promise when other line ups would have served them better. I can only presume we've made no such promises this time and he'll play wherever Pop says he will. Pau in that Boris roll with Manu and Patty could be fun to watch.
He is starting Pop spelled it out loud and clear.
Bench is going to rely on J.Simms and Anderson now (aside from Mills and Manu and others like Lee), but Pop has spelled it out: J.Simms and Anderson.

SpursBig3s

09-29-2016, 01:51 PM

Yes, this is why I thought it would be a good move, in addition to not taking shots from LMA and Kawhi, providing mobile defense for the starters and bringing back the PnR game.

yeah but wouldn't that really compromise our playmaking even further for the SL? Parker is not an elite playmaker at the PG position, so I would think taking out Gasol, who is an elite passer and playmaker for a big, our of the SL would take an already very average playmaking SL to even worse with Dedmon.

Although I won't disagree with the fact that our bench might lack some offensive punch with Dedmon instead of Gasol in the 2nd unit (if Mills is off).

Chinook

09-29-2016, 01:55 PM

yeah but wouldn't that really compromise our playmaking even further for the SL? Parker is not an elite playmaker at the PG position, so I would think taking out Gasol, who is an elite passer and playmaker for a big, our of the SL would take an already very average playmaking SL to even worse with Dedmon.

Although I won't disagree with the fact that our bench might lack some offensive punch with Dedmon instead of Gasol in the 2nd unit (if Mills is off).

I don't think it makes a ton of sense for the offense to depend on Gasol facilitating everyone. Sure, there'd be moments where it looked cool, but the ball should be in Kawhi's and LMA's hands. For Parker, however, he'd be a much better play-maker with a roll-man who can finish well enough to allow him to drive. Much easier to force the movement needed to get others good looks with an athletic big diving.

SpursBig3s

09-29-2016, 03:32 PM

I don't think it makes a ton of sense for the offense to depend on Gasol facilitating everyone. Sure, there'd be moments where it looked cool, but the ball should be in Kawhi's and LMA's hands. For Parker, however, he'd be a much better play-maker with a roll-man who can finish well enough to allow him to drive. Much easier to force the movement needed to get others good looks with an athletic big diving.

I didn't say depend on Gasol, I meant him as a secondary playmaker to Parker (who isn't an elite playmaker/passer). If the ball in in Kawhi and LMA's hands, were gonna see more of what we saw last year in that both are not great playmakers. Maybe Kawhi can develop that aspect of his game, but I think it's safe to say that LMA will not (even though for this team we need him to be an offensive force, not a playmaker necessarily).

I do agree with you in that having Gasol on the bench gives our questionable bench a little more juice. But I'd still lean towards wanting a proven, very good player in the SL instead of an athletic, yet raw and relatively inexperienced player in the SL.

Prose

09-29-2016, 09:04 PM

i would love this

Chinook

10-12-2016, 11:07 AM

BTB, Keith is still at this:

http://www.todaysfastbreak.com/nba-west/thinking-outside-box-western-conference/

Thinking outside the box – Western Conference

Every year NBA teams do something surprising. It can be lineups, roster decisions, playing time, etc. Often it is something that no one saw coming. This article presents some outside the box ideas that each Western Conference team (you can see the Eastern Conference here) should consider. Some of them are big swings, and others are tiny tweaks, but each represents a new way of thinking that could improve a team and give them an advantage they lack now.

...

SAN ANTONIO SPURS

The Idea: Start Dewayne Dedmon and bring Pau Gasol off the bench

The Reasoning: The Spurs will start the season without one of the league’s best defensive players of all time for the first time in two decades after Tim Duncan retired. Dewayne Dedmon can’t replace Duncan, but he can do a decent job of filling the hole. The Spurs already have a lot of players in the starting five who need offensive touches to be successful. Adding Pau Gasol to that mix makes it even tougher to keep everyone involved. Dedmon can handle the dirty work with screens and garbage points on offense, and he’s a good rebounder and shot blocker on the other end. Gregg Popovich can manage minutes for Gasol off the bench, and he’d be a tough cover for most backup big men. The Spurs will probably spot guys all over the place and manage minutes anyway, but this would give them a consistent rotation that could pay off in a big way by the postseason.

MaNu4Tres

10-12-2016, 11:25 AM

BTB, Keith is still at this:

http://www.todaysfastbreak.com/nba-west/thinking-outside-box-western-conference/

He apparently hasn't been watching any preseason games.

I know it's just preseason, but he's been very disappointing to watch. It looks like he did absolutely nothing this off-season. His feet are slow, his core strength seems very weak as he's out of position inside constantly and has to resort to grabbing, pulling, pushing or fouling on attempts in the interior. In his limited minutes thus far, you can find him grabbing his knees on most dead balls.

His play so far has reminds me of a young Mahimni ( rookie Mahimni), when he didn't have the core strength needed for the position and looked like a newborn deer -- where his legs were imbalanced and a step behind.

cd021

10-12-2016, 12:04 PM

I firmly expect the go-to guy for the bench to be Kyle unless he falls on his face. Then the Spurs will be in trouble, and it will be Maanu to the rescue. However, as last season progressed we already saw Manu transitioning to more of a spot-up 3-point shooter. I expect him to fill that role more and more, which is obviously much less wear and tear on his old body. Kyle will be the primary playmaker.

I did see a quote where Pop said that Anderson will probably play some 1, I took that to mean that he'll have the ball in his hands more often with Mills and Manu along side him. I would be curious to see Manu's spot up vs. pull up 3pt % like most players the spot up shot is usually much higher in percentage but Manu hasn't always had the luxury of being able to spot up.

cd021

10-12-2016, 12:39 PM

yeah but wouldn't that really compromise our playmaking even further for the SL? Parker is not an elite playmaker at the PG position, so I would think taking out Gasol, who is an elite passer and playmaker for a big, our of the SL would take an already very average playmaking SL to even worse with Dedmon.

Although I won't disagree with the fact that our bench might lack some offensive punch with Dedmon instead of Gasol in the 2nd unit (if Mills is off).

I think Parker has shown flashes of being a well above average passing PG, when he wants to be. He is no Steve Nash but during MVParker years 11-12, 12-13, he was able to use his speed, aggressiveness, and craftiness to get easy baskets for the likes of Duncan, Leonard and Green.

SAGirl

10-12-2016, 12:54 PM

Hmmm I am starting to think Keith's notes from Summer League were more his own personal wish list. His two biggest predictions were off.
Gasol off the bench--- hah!! Not happening. Psyche! Not only that Dedmon is not a starting caliber center. He would need to improve his awareness, correct his fouling, increase his screening without moving (avoid those OFouls due to moving screens). Etc. I am hoping he's better through the season in general, but right now, no, no way.

The second: Simmons is an X factor: Psyche! Part Deux. :lmao

sasaint

10-12-2016, 01:05 PM

I did see a quote where Pop said that Anderson will probably play some 1, I took that to mean that he'll have the ball in his hands more often with Mills and Manu along side him. I would be curious to see Manu's spot up vs. pull up 3pt % like most players the spot up shot is usually much higher in percentage but Manu hasn't always had the luxury of being able to spot up.

Unfortunately, I am not one to pull up charts and such. I usually rely on other posters here who are much better at mining data. But, yeah, I would like to see that, as well as a historical chart of some kind showing the percentage of Manu's pull-up 3s vs. his spot-up 3s. My own impression is that he was more of a spot-up 3-point shooter last year than he ever has been - especially late in the season. I think he is transitioning in that direction...

SAGirl

10-12-2016, 01:09 PM

Unfortunately, I am not one to pull up charts and such. I usually rely on other posters here who are much better at mining data. But, yeah, I would like to see that, as well as a historical chart of some kind showing the percentage of Manu's pull-up 3s vs. his spot-up 3s. My own impression is that he was more of a spot-up 3-point shooter last year than he ever has been - especially late in the season. I think he is transitioning in that direction...
I agree with this. My eye test told me as well that Manu was off the ball more frequently. Last season they used the playmaking from both bigs in the bench. I think we were all surprised West turned out such a good passer, and Boris made plays from the post a lot. Mills handled the ball more than I had ever seen him, and even had some end of quarter possessions. This season, they seem to be trending to others too. His 3 pt shot improved to be better than expected. He also played off post players a lot, sometimes off Kawhi, sometimes LMA.

cd021

10-12-2016, 06:36 PM

I agree with this. My eye test told me as well that Manu was off the ball more frequently. Last season they used the playmaking from both bigs in the bench. I think we were all surprised West turned out such a good passer, and Boris made plays from the post a lot. Mills handled the ball more than I had ever seen him, and even had some end of quarter possessions. This season, they seem to be trending to others too. His 3 pt shot improved to be better than expected. He also played off post players a lot, sometimes off Kawhi, sometimes LMA.

West is known for his passing tbh, I read an article after he joined the team about how the Pacers depended on his play making ability to survive.

I continue to expect Manu to trend towards playing off ball with players such as Mills, Anderson, and possibly even Simmons getting cracks at the play making responsibility. I am not sure how well that will work with the spacing issues with the backup front court (Anderson, Lee, Dedmon). I would prefer a Mills-Manu-Bertans-Anderson-Dedmon unit

SAGirl

10-12-2016, 07:28 PM

West is known for his passing tbh, I read an article after he joined the team about how the Pacers depended on his play making ability to survive.

I continue to expect Manu to trend towards playing off ball with players such as Mills, Anderson, and possibly even Simmons getting cracks at the play making responsibility. I am not sure how well that will work with the spacing issues with the backup front court (Anderson, Lee, Dedmon). I would prefer a Mills-Manu-Bertans-Anderson-Dedmon unit

Me too, though to be fair to myself about West, I didn't watch Indy at all.. I personally didn't know he was such a good passer.

I like the second unit you suggest, I have been watching Bertans a lot, but they just need Lee bc Dedmon is so inadequate on the PnR and doing all the other little things, finishing easy shots in the paint, even rebounding. He doesn't have a good feel for the game, could be he started playing too late in life, I don't know.

Some of Pop's experiments are probably going to last past the preseason (specially with Bertans and Murray, they could be improving players through the season.)

tonight...you

10-12-2016, 07:31 PM

Me too, though to be fair to myself about West, I didn't watch Indy at all.. I personally didn't know he was such a good passer.

I like the second unit you suggest, I have been watching Bertans a lot, but they just need Lee bc Dedmon is so inadequate on the PnR and doing all the other little things, finishing easy shots in the paint, even rebounding. He doesn't have a good feel for the game, could be he started playing too late in life, I don't know.

Some of Pop's experiments are probably going to last past the preseason (specially with Bertans and Murray, they could be improving players through the season.)
Disappointmon, tbh.

spurraider21

02-09-2017, 03:19 AM

dedmon now one of ST's favorites...

:wakeup

Robz4000

02-09-2017, 03:27 AM

Hope he stays starting tbh.

james evans

02-09-2017, 04:32 AM

Hope he stays starting tbh.
cmon now, you know once Gasol gets healthy, Popovich gonna bring that matador defense back to the starting lineup.

Robz4000

02-09-2017, 04:39 AM

cmon now, you know once Gasol gets healthy, Popovich gonna bring that matador defense back to the starting lineup.

Yop, but I can hope.

timtonymanu

02-26-2017, 07:38 PM

Took 50+ games but finally became a reality.

Spurs da champs

02-26-2017, 07:52 PM

Gasol's injury was a blessing.

Horse

02-26-2017, 07:54 PM

Damn right and gasol can put up better numbers with the bench

CGD

02-26-2017, 08:02 PM

Except you can tell Gasol and Lee haven't really played together, and need to get into rhythm

-21-

02-26-2017, 08:03 PM

Uh, did I miss something? I thought Pop was just easing Pau back after the injury and was eventually gonna insert him back in the starting lineup. (I'm all in for Dedmon starting btw)

GSH

02-26-2017, 08:11 PM

At the beginning of the season, I didn't think there was any way it could happen. I'm still a little concerned about his lack of offense. This was just his sixth game with more than 10 points. With both him and Danny in at the same time, the other three are really pressured to put up points. Shut one of them down, and they have to play some hellacious defense to hold their own.

But there's no doubt that Dedmon's quicker feet and athleticism are a plus on the defensive end, and Pau could really bring some added consistency to the bench. It's hard for me to imagine that the Spurs wouldn't have the most potent bench in the league with Pau anchoring the middle. If Pau goes for it and keeps a good attitude (and I think he would) it could go a long way to force opponent lineups.

I'm still not convinced Pop is heading that direction.

szkorhetz

02-26-2017, 08:15 PM

I actually loved the Gasol-Dedmon pairing against LAC, TBH.

sasaint

02-26-2017, 08:26 PM