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RandomGuy
07-19-2016, 05:04 PM
Trump is the greatest businessman in the world. Just ask him.

Of course, every used car salesman will tell you that "this car is the greatest".

Let's look a bit deeper.

Lie #1: "I have $8 billion dollars."

Forbes thinks he is exaggerating his wealth by about 100%
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erincarlyle/2015/06/16/trump-exaggerating-his-net-worth-by-100-in-presidential-bid/#34a4586c1a24


Interesting that he values his "brand" at about $3bn.

Think about that for a second. His own estimation of the value of his name is $3,000,000,000.

Now ask yourself:

How motivated would he be to pump up the value of his own name?

If you answer anything other than “ a lot” I have a sweet 15 year old car for you.


Lie #2: Trump is self-made

It is important to note that Trump didn’t start with “nothing”. He started with tens of millions of dollars. The exact amount is hard to pin down, given the time involved.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/dec/09/occupy-democrats/occupy-democrats-say-simple-investment-trumps-fath/

As an aside:
Personally, I think his lying about his net worth is one of the main factors about why he won’t release his tax return. ONE of them. The other being he has done something very likely illegal, and knows that whatever it is, the added scrutiny of his finances by everybody and their brother will out that faster than any overworked IRS auditors ever could. That illegality will probably prevent him from ever releasing them, giving Hillary her own pre-packaged scandal to harp on that will eclipse the “email” narrative.


Lie #3: “I don’t settle lawsuits — very rare — because once you settle lawsuits, everybody sues you,”


Of course that hasn’t stopped him from actively suing and being sued plenty, close to 3500 times:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/01/donald-trump-lawsuits-legal-battles/84995854/


As he campaigns, Trump often touts his skills as a negotiator. The analysis shows that lawsuits are one of his primary negotiating tools. He turns to litigation to distance himself from failing projects that relied on the Trump brand to secure investments. As USA TODAY previously reported, he also uses the legal system to haggle over his property tax bills. His companies have been involved in more than 100 tax disputes, and the New York State Department of Finance has obtained liens on Trump properties for unpaid tax bills at least three dozen times.

Speaking of negotiations:

Lie #4: Trump is a great negotiator:

This takes a hit, when you actually talk to professional negotiators:
https://hbr.org/2016/04/what-donald-trump-doesnt-understand-about-negotiation

Shocker: being a blowhard is a horrible strategy, especially when it isn't money, but military on the table. That is how wars start.

Trump claims his awesomeness at negotiating got him great deals from his creditors. The creditors say otherwise.


Donald Trump, who often says he only likes winners, tells one grand tale of loss: In 1990, he nearly went bankrupt and was forced to ask dozens of banks to whom he owed money to change the terms on their loans and forgive some of his debts.

It was, the real estate developer admits in his 1997 book The Art of the Comeback, the darkest period of his professional life. In his telling, it’s a story of redemption, of resilience, and proof of his exceptional negotiating skills and shrewd thinking.

Six people who participated in the loan workout negotiations have a different recollection, raising questions about a key part of the personal narrative that many of Trump’s supporters have found compelling as he campaigns to be the next president of the United States on Nov. 8. On the campaign trail he has portrayed himself as a survivor and a master negotiator.

Trump says his comeback began when he recognized a downturn in the real estate market and quickly asked banks to renegotiate his loans. “That decision was perhaps the smartest thing I did,” he wrote.

The six bankers and lawyers involved in the talks say the bailout wasn’t based on any overture Trump initiated with the banks – and the terms of the deal were dictated by what was best for the banks, not Trump.

Three of the participants say Trump didn’t acknowledge he had a problem until his lenders reviewed his books, realized he was on the brink of collapse, and summoned him for debt restructuring talks.

The last thing though, if you want to really measure his judgment is to see how his "capture the media by saying stupid shit" strategy is doing to his brand.

It is a litany of canceled deals.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/buzzfeed-calls-off-ad-deal-with-rnc-over-donald-trump-1465233461
http://fortune.com/2015/12/17/donald-trump-deals-lost/

His hotels and other developments, that once commanded premiums over competitors, have seen that premium slide into statistical insignificance.

Trump-Branded Condos No Longer Exhibit the Price Premium They Had Last Year, According to Redfin
https://www.redfin.com/blog/2016/07/have-trump-condos-lost-their-luster-this-election-year.html


The four bankruptcies point out the cost of buying into Trumps brand. He sold his creditors on his brand, and it cost them billions.

Lie, after lie, after lie. Not just little ones, either. At a certain point, one has a pretty definite pattern.

Now, he is asking us to buy into his brand.

How much will that cost us?

boutons_deux
07-19-2016, 05:15 PM
"he has done something very likely illegal"

I bet Trash got caught with $10Ms or more in Switzerland or other criminal tax evasion haven, just like Bishop Gekko, who also wouldn't release his tax returns, which probably would have showed him ponying up in IRS amnesty program.

RandomGuy
07-19-2016, 05:17 PM
While we are on the subject of lies:

‘I Feel a Deep Sense of Remorse,’ Donald Trump’s Ghostwriter Says


Mr. Schwartz, a former magazine writer who said he worked on the book because he needed the money, told the writer Jane Mayer that he painted Mr. Trump in the most positive light that he could, thinking that a sympathetic character would be better for the book’s sales than a story about a cruel tycoon. If he could do it over again, however, Mr. Schwartz said the book would be titled “The Sociopath.”

“I feel a deep sense of remorse that I contributed to presenting Trump in a way that brought him wider attention and made him more appealing than he is,” Mr. Schwartz said. “I genuinely believe that if Trump wins and gets the nuclear codes, there is an excellent possibility it will lead to the end of civilization.”

...
“He’s a living black hole!” Mr. Schwartz said he used to tell his wife after long days with Mr. Trump. He described Mr. Trump as a painful interview subject who could not handle questions that required any depth to answer and who had little recollection of his youth. When pressed, Mr. Schwartz said, Mr. Trump would grow fidgety, angry and sometimes quit despite the fact that they were ostensibly working together on the book. He had no attention span, Mr. Schwartz said.

“If he had to be briefed on a crisis in the Situation Room, it’s impossible to imagine him paying attention over a long period of time,” Mr. Schwartz said of Mr. Trump’s inability to focus.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/19/us/politics/trump-book-tony-schwartz.html

SnakeBoy
07-19-2016, 10:29 PM
“I genuinely believe that if Trump wins and gets the nuclear codes, there is an excellent possibility it will lead to the end of civilization.”

lol

pgardn
07-19-2016, 10:42 PM
lol

So are the Mexicans going to build Us a wall?

Im thinking a gold wall would be cool.
Peeps could just knock off little pieces and run back to their side, problem solved.

SnakeBoy
07-20-2016, 01:18 AM
So are the Mexicans going to build Us a wall?

Im thinking a gold wall would be cool.
Peeps could just knock off little pieces and run back to their side, problem solved.

What the fuck does that have to do with this dude thinking Trump winning will be the end of civilization?

spurraider21
07-20-2016, 02:14 AM
oh we needed a new thread to bash trump?

k

Aztecfan03
07-20-2016, 02:18 AM
Just a few of the reasons i didnt vote for him in the primaries and why i'm voting third party in November.

RandomGuy
07-20-2016, 08:39 AM
lol

Not sure I would lol about such a thing.

The quote was from the guy who wrote "Art of the Deal" for him, and spent no small amount of time with Trump.

Would you want someone mentally unstable to have the ability to use nuclear weapons?

hater
07-20-2016, 08:40 AM
And yet he will be pur next 2 term president. Just bite the pillow and it'll be over in 8 years :lol

tlongII
07-20-2016, 09:22 AM
Not sure I would lol about such a thing.

The quote was from the guy who wrote "Art of the Deal" for him, and spent no small amount of time with Trump.

Would you want someone mentally unstable to have the ability to use nuclear weapons?

Well you want Hillary so...

RandomGuy
07-20-2016, 09:23 AM
oh we needed a new thread to bash trump?

k

Sure.

If people want to vote for someone because of X, and X happens to be a rather large lie.

Do you think people should vote for someone based on a lie?

RandomGuy
07-20-2016, 09:25 AM
Well you want Hillary so...

Feel free to provide whatever evidence you have that would support the assertion that Hillary Clinton has an unstable personality.

I will guess you will be about as successful at that as you are at supporting the other things you tend to believe in. At some point, I would think you might ask yourself why you continue to believe things that don't have any evidence to support them.

I want NotTrump, and will happily vote for NotTrump in November.

RandomGuy
07-20-2016, 09:31 AM
And yet he will be pur next 2 term president. Just bite the pillow and it'll be over in 8 years :lol

:sleep

You are as predictable as boutons, and way more boring.

RandomGuy
07-20-2016, 09:32 AM
Just a few of the reasons i didnt vote for him in the primaries and why i'm voting third party in November.

The Libertarian candidate is actually fairly decent this year. I am somewhat tempted.

boutons_deux
07-20-2016, 09:36 AM
Would you want someone mentally unstable to have the ability to use nuclear weapons?

no worries

OBAMA PLANS TO TAKE NUCLEAR LAUNCH CODES WITH HIM WHEN HE LEAVES OFFICE

WASHINGTON — President Obama is planning to take the nation’s nuclear launch codes with him when he leaves office, in January of 2017, the President announced in a nationally televised address on Thursday.

The President was quick to acknowledge that his decision to hold on to the launch codes was unorthodox, but said that he was doing it “to reassure the American people.”

“In recent weeks, there has been a rising level of alarm about who might have access to these codes going forward,” Obama said. “As a result, it occurred to me that the safest thing would be if I just held on to them for the foreseeable future.”

The President stressed, however, that he would follow through on his plan to keep custody of the launch codes “only if it is necessary.”

“We’re just going to have to see how everything plays out,” he said.

At the conclusion of his address, Obama held up the nuclear “football,” the briefcase containing the nation’s nuclear codes, to display it for the national television audience.

“You can all sleep well at night,” he said. “I got this.”

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/obama-plans-to-take-nuclear-launch-codes-with-him-when-he-leaves-office (http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/obama-plans-to-take-nuclear-launch-codes-with-him-when-he-leaves-office)

RandomGuy
07-20-2016, 09:45 AM
What the fuck does that have to do with this dude thinking Trump winning will be the end of civilization?

It is quite relevant.


Given the fact that it would cost tens of billions of dollars, at a minimum, and there is "no fucking way", per the Mexican president, that Mexico would actually pay for it, we know the wall is a Very Stupid Idea.

But Trump won't back away from this Very Stupid Idea.

Either:
Trump knows the wall is a stupid idea, and is actively lying about it.

or

Trump thinks it is doable.

If Trump thinks its doable, then he doesn't have the mental filter to be able to detect Very Stupid Ideas, something VERY, VERY dangerous when it comes to nuclear weapons.

If Trump is actively lying about it, continually, then you have to ask yourself what kind of person would so actively brazenly lie to you about a Very Stupid Idea. Do a little reading on narcissism, and ask yourself if that kind of personality should have nuclear weapons.

Which do you prefer, then not stable enough to know when they see a Very Stupid Idea, or a semi-stable narcissist?

101A
07-20-2016, 09:57 AM
Feel free to provide whatever evidence you have that would support the assertion that Hillary Clinton has an unstable personality.



I'll see you're Ghost Writer with a former Secret Service Agent.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2016/06/secret-service-agent-says-hillary-is-unstable-and-violent/

The bottom line is we have two very crappy, with much to be desired candidates for president. It is far easier to explain why the OTHER one CANNOT be allowed to ascend to the chair than it is to make a compelling case that either OUGHT to. Anyone who takes part in this narrative, that buys into selling one side or the other is a sell out, or a fool. Pick the (in whatever view you have) lesser of the evils, and by all means vote against the other, but don't pretend either of these candidates deserves the presidency, or ought to be president. Trump is here because he appealed to a minority of a minority group's base sensibilities, while the rest of the party greedily divided up most of the votes. Clinton, literally, has been hand-picked since 2008, and no one dared run against her, except a 70-some-year-old socialist, who ended up giving her all she could handle. If any reasonable candidate had thrown their hat into the ring, she would have lost.

He's hiding something, and not releasing his taxes proves it, she has taken part in numerous questionable practices, and ethically/morally questionable actions, and her controlling all of her emails (those pesky FOIA requests), both official and not, while Secretary of State, proves it.

This fucking sucks.

clambake
07-20-2016, 10:30 AM
i guess its gone full circle now.

8 years ago obama was the anti-christ

now trump is martin sheen in the dead zone.

boutons_deux
07-20-2016, 10:44 AM
This fucking sucks.

I don't care about the type of gonads, but Trash is mentally disordered, seriously disordered, emotionally arrested in mid-teens.

Hillary ethics, morals are no different than any top politician, but her neocon policies and being owned by BigFinance are my biggest objections.

As long as Repugs dominate 2/3 of the states and enough of Congress to execute strict obstructionism, America is fucked and unfuckable.

spurraider21
07-20-2016, 10:58 AM
Sure.

If people want to vote for someone because of X, and X happens to be a rather large lie.

Do you think people should vote for someone based on a lie?
irrelevant to my post

this subject has been discussed at length in one of the other trump threads

Blake
07-20-2016, 11:49 AM
Well you want Hillary so...

Our selections for president all suck

baseline bum
07-20-2016, 11:57 AM
Well you want Hillary so...

Only to keep the retarded house from getting everything they want passed

TeyshaBlue
07-20-2016, 12:57 PM
irrelevant to my post

this subject has been discussed at length in one of the other trump threads

The echo chamber has birthed echo threads. No surprise here.

pgardn
07-20-2016, 01:13 PM
......

pgardn
07-20-2016, 01:15 PM
What the fuck does that have to do with this dude thinking Trump winning will be the end of civilization?


Nothing dumb fuck.

This statement you are laughing at is EVERY BIT as ludicrous as getting Mexico to pay for a wall.

RandomGuy
07-20-2016, 01:40 PM
I'll see you're Ghost Writer with a former Secret Service Agent.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2016/06/secret-service-agent-says-hillary-is-unstable-and-violent/

The bottom line is we have two very crappy, with much to be desired candidates for president. It is far easier to explain why the OTHER one CANNOT be allowed to ascend to the chair than it is to make a compelling case that either OUGHT to. Anyone who takes part in this narrative, that buys into selling one side or the other is a sell out, or a fool. Pick the (in whatever view you have) lesser of the evils, and by all means vote against the other, but don't pretend either of these candidates deserves the presidency, or ought to be president. Trump is here because he appealed to a minority of a minority group's base sensibilities, while the rest of the party greedily divided up most of the votes. Clinton, literally, has been hand-picked since 2008, and no one dared run against her, except a 70-some-year-old socialist, who ended up giving her all she could handle. If any reasonable candidate had thrown their hat into the ring, she would have lost.

He's hiding something, and not releasing his taxes proves it, she has taken part in numerous questionable practices, and ethically/morally questionable actions, and her controlling all of her emails (those pesky FOIA requests), both official and not, while Secretary of State, proves it.

This fucking sucks.

okaaay. Do you have accounts of someone who isn't trying to make money selling his book?

I would note Trump's biographer has no money in the offing for saying what he is saying, dude made his money already.

RandomGuy
07-20-2016, 01:41 PM
Only to keep the retarded house from getting everything they want passed

There is that small detail.

101A
07-20-2016, 02:07 PM
okaaay. Do you have accounts of someone who isn't trying to make money selling his book?

I would note Trump's biographer has no money in the offing for saying what he is saying, dude made his money already.

Did my post make you think I would defend Trump?

If so, I failed.

RandomGuy
07-20-2016, 03:49 PM
Did my post make you think I would defend Trump?

If so, I failed.

I was merely pointing out that the two sources are not quite equal. I would though, be more than willing to accede that Hillary's time in the white house may have been a *wee* bit stressful for her. I would be more surprised if she didn't come off a bit crazy during that time period.

FuzzyLumpkins
07-20-2016, 04:22 PM
nm

SnakeBoy
07-20-2016, 04:22 PM
If Trump is actively lying about it, continually, then you have to ask yourself what kind of person would so actively brazenly lie to you about a Very Stupid Idea. Do a little reading on narcissism, and ask yourself if that kind of personality should have nuclear weapons.


So Trump is a threat to civilization because he may be lying about something for political gain says the guy who wants Hillary to be POTUS



If Trump thinks its doable, then he doesn't have the mental filter to be able to detect Very Stupid Ideas, something VERY, VERY dangerous when it comes to nuclear weapons.


Again this coming from the guy who wants Hillary to be POTUS. Was it a very stupid idea to remove Gaddafi and then just hope that a wonderful government sprung up to replace him? Is it a very stupid idea to want to repeat the same thing in Syria? Did Hillary detect that invading Iraq was a very stupid idea?

Those a rhetorical questions btw, but you can write an essay responding if you like. I know you possess one of the great intellects on the internet (because you constantly remind us) so I am curious why you choose to support the "end of civilization/nuclear armageddon" argument against Trump given the vast amount of material Trump has provided to attack him on. Do you actually believe the end of civilization is really going to happen if Trump is elected? Or did you just deduce that it would be a good way to influence the voting decisions of ST Political forum posters?

SnakeBoy
07-20-2016, 04:44 PM
So are the Mexicans going to build Us a wall?


Get your shit straight, Mexico is paying for the wall not building it. Trump will build it, he's a great builder and it will be done under budget and ahead of schedule and it will be beautiful. Have you not been paying attention?