21 reasons why Kevin McHale was better than Tim Duncan

[AlexJones]

http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/7/23/12262038/twenty-one-reasons-why-kevin-mchale-was-better-than-tim-duncan

Wonder how lefty will react to this, tbh. Gotta choose between TD or :lol white american players from the 80's :lmao

[midnightpulp]

McHale was legit, and decimated Hakeem in the '86 Finals, but no, not comparable to Duncan. The writer can talk about Kevin's PPG all he wants, but 80's basketball didn't employ many double teams. Furthermore, 80's ball was played at a faster pace.

If McHale played today, he'd be maybe a half-tier above a prime Pau Gasol. Top 20-30 player in the league.

Duncan also easily bests McHale in PP100 stats, the only stat that should be used when comparing players of different eras.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mchalke01.html

And McHale isn't in the same universe per Advanced metrics.

[140]

:lol This is almost as ridiculous a claim as saying prince fielder is faster than C. Ronaldo, tbh...

[midnightpulp]

:lol This is almost as ridiculous a claim as saying prince fielder is faster than C. Ronaldo, tbh...

6.8 60 yard vs. 4.7 40 :tu

Ronaldo is a shit athlete, slower than American fatties.

[Thread]

McHale always took it personal, too personal and was easily baited into the shit.

Duncan gave very little away. Just that time he trolled Howard & that time he slammed the floor during the Spur's 1st 5th.

[Splits]

:lol This is almost as ridiculous a claim as saying prince fielder is faster than C. Ronaldo, tbh...

:lmao

[midnightpulp]

:lmao

6.8 ve 3.61 :hat

Why is Ronaldo so slow, brother?

[Splits]

McHale always took it personal, too personal and was easily baited into the shit.

Duncan gave very little away. Just that time he trolled Howard & that time he slammed the floor during the Spur's 1st 5th.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.sbnation.com/assets/2540973/howarddealwithit.gif

[Splits]

6.8 ve 3.61 :hat

Why is Ronaldo so slow, brother?

Because you just make shit up and post "evidence" from blogs nobody has ever heard of? Ronaldo has been clocked at 20.9mph. Mike Trout 20.8mph. Dee Gordon 21.1. Lee Hamilton 21.2.

Yawn.

[midnightpulp]

Because you just make shit up and post "evidence" from blogs nobody has ever heard of? Ronaldo has been clocked at 20.9mph. Mike Trout 20.8mph. Dee Gordon 21.1. Lee Hamilton 21.2.

Yawn.

Quit making shit up, bro.

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/73955164/v260048283/2015-asg-statcast-tracks-trouts-basestealing-speed

Trout's top speed ever recorded is 21.15mph.

But see, I won't take you task for your oversight because you got Trout's top speed from a quick google search, much like I got my 6'1", 190lb figure.

I also don't get why you don't trust a running blog to give a ball park estimate of Ronaldo's 40 yard dash time (split acceleration isn't some voodoo science)? If you don't like the figure, do your own calculations. However, given Ronaldo's top sprint mark of 20.9mph, I would say a 4.64-4.7 40 time is a fair estimate.

I find 20.9 mph unimpressive because I watch feats like this every night in baseball:

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/73955164/v947327183/ladwsh-turner-reaches-227-mph-to-leg-out-triple

22.7mph while making a sweep turn :wow

How does it feel that a "fatball" player is faster than every floptrot player in existence (Valencia and his "record" 21.8mph sprint speed :lmao)?

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Yesterday's NBA

[Splits]

Splitting hairs

and :lol "feats"

How about these "feats" (or are they feasts)?

:lol drinking beer during games
:lol eating fried chicken and biscuits during games
:lol going to the clubhouse to fill your gatorade cup with beer, then returning to the dugout
:lol any "sport" which you can play drunk
:lol all-stars chimney smoking during games
:lol 6'1" 223lb average "athlete" because they drink and eat fried foods during games
:lol anyone under the age of 60 that takes this "sport" seriously

[midnightpulp]

Because you just make shit up and post "evidence" from blogs nobody has ever heard of? Ronaldo has been clocked at 20.9mph. Mike Trout 20.8mph. Dee Gordon 21.1. Billy Hamilton 21.2.

Yawn.

Oh, and this more "making shit up."

Billy Hamilton's top speed is 23.3mph :spless: overall

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/73955164/v865289483/chccin-hamilton-hits-233-mph-on-steal-of-second/?query=billy%2Bhamilton

Again, Valencia and his 21.8mph :lmao

He even had more field to use:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byf4NYWQ9dM

[midnightpulp]

Splitting hairs

and :lol "feats"

How about these "feats" (or are they feasts)?

:lol drinking beer during games
:lol eating fried chicken and biscuits during games
:lol going to the clubhouse to fill your gatorade cup with beer, then returning to the dugout
:lol any "sport" which you can play drunk
:lol all-stars chimney smoking during games
:lol 6'1" 223lb average "athlete" because they drink and eat fried foods during games
:lol anyone under the age of 60 that takes this "sport" seriously

And they're still faster and more athletic than floptrot players :lmao

Is that what you "got" living over in Europe about the game, how shit those "athletes" actually are?

[midnightpulp]

Splits, how does it FEEL that a 6'5" 250lb beast of pure American muscle is faster than your hero Cristiano Ronaldo?

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/73955164/v933890683/miastl-stanton-runs-over-20-mph-on-two-diving-grabs

Over 21mph.

20.9 mph top speed at 6'1" 180lb :lmao

[Splits]

I do like how you've cherry picked sprint times as a measure of athleticism when sprinting has completely different purposes for each game. If your objective is to run 100 yards (home to 3rd) as fast as you can in order to dive into the dirt, of course your top speed is going to be your max. Especially after standing around all day doing nothing but scratching your balls, spitting and chewing tobacco. If you've been running around a pitch for an hour, and your objective is to chase down a ball at max speed for 20-40 yards, then have to stop/slow, collect said ball, and then do something skillful, such as pass or score as opposed to just diving into the dirt, you're obviously not going to hit your max speed potential.

But keep on lying and making fallacious comparisons.

[midnightpulp]

I do like how you've cherry picked sprint times as a measure of athleticism when sprinting has completely different purposes for each game. If your objective is to run 100 yards (home to 3rd) as fast as you can in order to dive into the dirt, of course your top speed is going to be your max. Especially after standing around all day doing nothing but scratching your balls, spitting and chewing tobacco. If you've been running around a pitch for an hour, and your objective is to chase down a ball at max speed for 20-40 yards, then have to stop/slow, collect said ball, and then do something skillful, such as pass or score as opposed to just diving into the dirt, you're obviously not going to hit your max speed potential.

But keep on lying and making fallacious comparisons.

:lmao this spin

You should know watching that gay fuckin sport that players are often sprinting in STRAIGHT lines full bore while doing nothing skillful, just like a baseball player sprints for a base. Furthermore, many outfielders reach top speeds of over 20 mph while having to track a small object flying 10 stories or more in the air from distances of over 300 feet. Yeah, that's pretty skillful.

What "fallacious comparisons?" You and the soccer crew unequivocally claim that baseball is an unathletic sport filled with 90% fatties. I come in and show you numerous examples (I can show hundreds) of baseball players outperforming floptrot players in key athletic traits like sprinting, vertical leap, etc, and then the back-tracking begins.

Being a former baseball fan, you should know it's not an unathletic sport filled with fatties (imagine Rickey Henderson vs. Fagnaldo in a decathlon :lol It would be a bloodbath), but I get you're in your Europhilia phase (isn't that usually a college aged thing) that doesn't allow you to praise anything American, aside from Tim Duncan I guess, who is actually a pretty terrible athlete :lol

[Splits]

sport

Thank you.

Now go waste the next 4 hours watching a bunch of guys drink beer, eat fried chicken, smoke, and play a game which does not classify as a sport.

Darts and Bowling are more interesting and take less time to complete.

[midnightpulp]

Thank you.

Now go waste the next 4 hours watching a bunch of guys drink beer, eat fried chicken, smoke, and play a game which does not classify as a sport.

And beat the shit out of floptrot players in speed, strength, leaping ability.

"Stamina."

Even 102 year old run 10ks in 90 minutes :lmao

I'll take the one word reply as your concession.

I'll leave you with one of your floptrot players trying to play the great American sport of baseball:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WliM1w1MWDk

And here's a baseball player easily doing some soccer tricks dicking around on instagram:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3mGuCYz98A

And det 66" box jump.

Got any footage of Fagnaldo doing that?

[poeticism707]

:lmao the spin

:rollin :rollin :rollin

[chunticakes]

I love how every thread nowadays turns into fatb:lol ll vs p:lol verty ball.

[DMC]

I don't even know who these fuckers are.

[chunticakes]

I don't even know who these fuckers are.

Yeah no shit dude.

And to make matters worse these full grown men fervently defend them. :lol

[UZER]

I love how every thread nowadays turns into fatb:lol ll vs p:lol verty ball.

:lol Today's NBA forum

[BD24]

Although baseball is boring as fucking shit to say these guys aren't phenomenal athletes is ridiculous. There probably isn't a single guy on this forum who can hit a 94 mph fastball. Not to mention baseball has fantastic athletes like Billy Hamilton, Griffey Jr, and Ricky Henderson.

[Killakobe81]

Although baseball is boring as fucking shit to say these guys aren't phenomenal athletes is ridiculous. There probably isn't a single guy on this forum who can hit a 94 mph fastball. Not to mention baseball has fantastic athletes like Billy Hamilton, Griffey Jr, and Ricky Henderson.

I wouldnt say boring bit its slow.
That is why Vin Scully is so amazing ...his storytelling and wit without trying to hard helps make a 2-1 game feel epic.
I also enjoy sovcer hated ut as a kid ...except plsying ...but the nuance and skill it takes should be appreciated same as with baseball i dont nornally watch fullgames matches etc of any sport except hoops and american football though but soccer is probably third ...on amount of time i spend watching over nhl and mlb


Oh forgot bixing ill watch all 12 rounds of a good fight too

[djohn2oo8]

Although baseball is boring as fucking shit to say these guys aren't phenomenal athletes is ridiculous. There probably isn't a single guy on this forum who can hit a 94 mph fastball. Not to mention baseball has fantastic athletes like Billy Hamilton, Griffey Jr, and Ricky Henderson.

There are assholes on this forum who couldnt hit an 80 mph fastball. It's all about hand eye coordination and bat speed. And fielding the baseball isnt easy.

[Kidd K]

Not gonna lie, went into that article thinking okay . . .I'm sure there are some arguments because McHale did have aspects of his game that were better. But he's just doing a lot of cherry picking (while omitting tons of Duncan stuff) and throwing in lots of random bashes for no reason. It's like a big forum post lol. Lies too, claims less rebounds were available to get in the 80's as opposed to Duncan's teams. . .when Duncan typically played on a low pace team of maybe 90 which means less misses since less shots, meanwhile Celtics pace was 100+. . .so more shots, more misses, more rebounds.

Duncan TRB%: 18.4%, McHale: 13.2%. DRB%: 26.5% vs 16.9% lol. "Less rebounds to get". . .:lol.

"I conservatively estimate that McHale's Celtics would have won no less than 8 NBA championships and been to the Finals 10 times in 13 years in today's NBA~" :lmao

Terrible homer article imo. Bad use of stats and tries to twist facts with lies and opinion.

[Kidd K]

And beat the shit out of floptrot players in speed, strength, leaping ability.

"Stamina."

Even 102 year old run 10ks in 90 minutes :lmao

I'll take the one word reply as your concession.

I'll leave you with one of your floptrot players trying to play the great American sport of baseball:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WliM1w1MWDk

And here's a baseball player easily doing some soccer tricks dicking around on instagram:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3mGuCYz98A

And det 66" box jump.

Got any footage of Fagnaldo doing that?

Holy fuck that box jump! wow

[poeticism707]

Not gonna lie, went into that article thinking okay . . .I'm sure there are some arguments because McHale did have aspects of his game that were better. But he's just doing a lot of cherry picking (while omitting tons of Duncan stuff) and throwing in lots of random bashes for no reason. It's like a big forum post lol. Lies too, claims less rebounds were available to get in the 80's as opposed to Duncan's teams. . .when Duncan typically played on a low pace team of maybe 90 which means less misses since less shots, meanwhile Celtics pace was 100+. . .so more shots, more misses, more rebounds.

Duncan TRB%: 18.4%, McHale: 13.2%. DRB%: 26.5% vs 16.9% lol. "Less rebounds to get". . .:lol.

"I conservatively estimate that McHale's Celtics would have won no less than 8 NBA championships and been to the Finals 10 times in 13 years in today's NBA~" :lmao

Terrible homer article imo. Bad use of stats and tries to twist facts with lies and opinion.

This.

Homer be Homerin'...

[InRareForm]

So clever having '21' reasons

[Obstructed_View]

Duncan being on that team from 1981 to 1999 changes a lot of basketball history, tbh.

[spurraider21]

Quit making shit up, bro.

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/73955164/v260048283/2015-asg-statcast-tracks-trouts-basestealing-speed

Trout's top speed ever recorded is 21.15mph.

But see, I won't take you task for your oversight because you got Trout's top speed from a quick google search, much like I got my 6'1", 190lb figure.

I also don't get why you don't trust a running blog to give a ball park estimate of Ronaldo's 40 yard dash time (split acceleration isn't some voodoo science)? If you don't like the figure, do your own calculations. However, given Ronaldo's top sprint mark of 20.9mph, I would say a 4.64-4.7 40 time is a fair estimate.

I find 20.9 mph unimpressive because I watch feats like this every night in baseball:

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/73955164/v947327183/ladwsh-turner-reaches-227-mph-to-leg-out-triple

22.7mph while making a sweep turn :wow

How does it feel that a "fatball" player is faster than every floptrot player in existence (Valencia and his "record" 21.8mph sprint speed :lmao)?
their "calculations" for ronaldos time included bringing in usian bolt's time into their formula... its flat retarded

[Kawhitstorm]

Oh, and this more "making shit up."

Billy Hamilton's top speed is 23.3mph :spless: overall

Hamilton isn't making the all-star team any time soon b/c he doesn't have skills to go along with his speed.:lol

Dee Gordon was caught for being on the Ben Johnson regimen::lol


On April 29, 2016, Major League Baseball (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball) suspended Gordon for 80 games due to performance-enhancing drugs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance-enhancing_drugs) use. He tested positive for exogenous testosterone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone) and clostebol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostebol).[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Gordon#cite_note-2)

GOAT Besibol player:

http://67.media.tumblr.com/d504372c153360b217ddb0c3758a7470/tumblr_mfisg8savs1r1a5mio1_500.jpg

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

McHale was legit, and decimated Hakeem in the '86 Finals, but no, not comparable to Duncan. The writer can talk about Kevin's PPG all he wants, but 80's basketball didn't employ many double teams. Furthermore, 80's ball was played at a faster pace.

Zone defense was illegal pre-2004 so teams couldn't double post players before they catch the ball which is why the most dominant seasons by post players was pre-2004.

[midnightpulp]

their "calculations" for ronaldos time included bringing in usian bolt's time into their formula... its flat retarded

Come up with your own then.

Why are you so skeptical that Ronaldo's projected 40 time is in that range? It looks good to me.

Another example. Billy Hamilton holds the in game record for the fastest time from home to first at 3.3 seconds. As you know, that distance is 90 feet. Ronaldo ran the 25m (82 feet) sprint in 3.61 seconds.

Hamilton was never a football player, but he estimates he could run the 40 in around 4.3.

All we can do is estimate, but by all accounts, the 4.64-4.7 projection for Ronaldo looks reasonable.

[midnightpulp]

Hamilton isn't making the all-star team any time soon b/c he doesn't have skills to go along with his speed.:lol

Dee Gordon was caught for being on the Ben Johnson regimen::lol



GOAT Besibol player:

http://67.media.tumblr.com/d504372c153360b217ddb0c3758a7470/tumblr_mfisg8savs1r1a5mio1_500.jpg

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

We're talking about athleticism not skills. And Hamilton would scorch every floptrot player in the world in a foot race.

And he might not even be the fastest MLB player.

:lol Referencing players from the 20's before integration.

You can do better.

Willie Mays is the GOAT, though.

http://www.achievement.org/achievers/may0/large/may0-051.jpg

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/517264954-muscular-willie-mays-talks-to-reporters-here-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXnQMVT5y714XCtUZeDDMArySk9ah 0w6%2FebC8ZDKIbte7pp6cfL6u7a%2BkGRvWXO1v7g%3D%3D

[spurraider21]

Come up with your own then.

Why are you so skeptical that Ronaldo's projected 40 time is in that range? It looks good to me.

Another example. Billy Hamilton holds the in game record for the fastest time from home to first at 3.3 seconds. As you know, that distance is 90 feet. Ronaldo ran the 25m (82 feet) sprint in 3.61 seconds.

Hamilton was never a football player, but he estimates he could run the 40 in around 4.3.

All we can do is estimate, but by all accounts, the 4.64-4.7 projection for Ronaldo looks reasonable.
if course it looks good to you. it feeds into confirmation bias

[Thread]

We're talking about athleticism not skills. And Hamilton would scorch every floptrot player in the world in a foot race.

And he might not even be the fastest MLB player.

:lol Referencing players from the 20's before integration.

You can do better.

Willie Mays is the GOAT, though.

http://www.achievement.org/achievers/may0/large/may0-051.jpg

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/517264954-muscular-willie-mays-talks-to-reporters-here-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXnQMVT5y714XCtUZeDDMArySk9ah 0w6%2FebC8ZDKIbte7pp6cfL6u7a%2BkGRvWXO1v7g%3D%3D

Though difficult to forget him wandering around in center field for the Mets. Lord.

[midnightpulp]

if course it looks good to you. it feeds into confirmation bias

Then prove otherwise, Philo.

Try and logically argue that Fagnaldo would have a faster 40 time than that?

Here's how split times in the 40 yard typically go for sprinters in the NFL:

Athlete 1

10 yd - 1.59
10-20 - 1.06
20-40 -- 1.94
40 yd - 4.59

Athlete 2

10 yd - 1.70
10-20 - 1.05
20-40 -- 1.95
40 yd - 4.70

http://www.strengthcoach.com/public/1744.cfm

Let's give Fagnaldo the 20 yard split time in the first example of 1.94 (.97 seconds per ten yard split). Adding that ten yard split to his 25m (27 yard) time of 3.61 seconds, we get 4.58 seconds. And there's still 3 yards to go. 3 yards is 30% of 10 yards, .97 x .30 = .291 seconds. 4.58 + .291 = 4.871 seconds.

LOOKS FUCKING GOOD. If anything, the blog I initially listed was probably being kind.

I await some Philo'ing. Be better if you just dealt with the fact that your soccer hero isn't really all that fast.

[Spurtacular]

McHale was legit, and decimated Hakeem in the '86 Finals, but no, not comparable to Duncan.

That fact alone would make him comparable.

There used to be an awesome McHale vs. Olajuwon 86 Finals vid on YT. I don't know what happened to it; but it was awesome.

[spurraider21]

Then prove otherwise, Philo.

Try and logically argue that Fagnaldo would have a faster 40 time than that?

Here's how split times in the 40 yard typically go for sprinters in the NFL:

Athlete 1

10 yd - 1.59
10-20 - 1.06
20-40 -- 1.94
40 yd - 4.59

Athlete 2

10 yd - 1.70
10-20 - 1.05
20-40 -- 1.95
40 yd - 4.70

http://www.strengthcoach.com/public/1744.cfm

Let's give Fagnaldo the 20 yard split time in the first example of 1.94 (.97 seconds per ten yard split). Adding that ten yard split to his 25m (27 yard) time of 3.61 seconds, we get 4.58 seconds. And there's still 3 yards to go. 3 yards is 30% of 10 yards, .97 x .30 = .291 seconds. 4.58 + .291 = 4.871 seconds.

LOOKS FUCKING GOOD. If anything, the blog I initially listed was probably being kind.

I await some Philo'ing. Be better if you just dealt with the fact that your soccer hero isn't really all that fast.
im not a povertyball fan at all :lol... equally boring to watch as beisbol. i'm just not buying that prince fielder runs faster than ronaldo

[midnightpulp]

Ah, killshot time. Finally found a breakdown of 10 meter splits.

http://speedendurance.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/100-meter-splits.jpg

40 yards = 36.6 meters.

Let's give Fagnaldo Bolt's 30-40m split time of .87 seconds (something I find ridiculous) to estimate how fast Ronaldo would run 25m to 35m.

3.61 + .87 = a 4.48 35m time. Still have 1.6 meters to go. .87 x .16 = .1392 seconds. 4.48 + .1392 = 4.61

So Fagnaldo would have to accelerate like Usain Bolt (:lmao) to post a 4.61 second 40 time, which would be a slow 40 time for a position player at the NFL combine.

Yeah, he's not accelerating like Bolt. :lol I don't know why the floptrot crew (Philo is now an honorary member) continues to come at me.

[DMC]

lol faggots here thinking washboard stomach and being ripped = being athletic and skilled. More interested in fapping to a player's body than what the player can bring to the game.

:lol Like anyone here ever played anything outside of HS ball and ever saw any playing time if they did.

[Kawhitstorm]

We're talking about athleticism not skills. And Hamilton would scorch every floptrot player in the world in a foot race.

And he might not even be the fastest MLB player.

Dumbass, the fastest 200m sprinter in the history Great Britain was a futbol player in the lower divisions. If there was such a thing as field running in futbol then he would have been playing for Real Madrid.:lol

ULFp_cIhMR8



:lol Referencing players from the 20's before integration.

A sport which prides itself as being America's PAST-time while referring to the dark ages b/c the current state of the league is worse than segregation.:lol

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/e6/44/32/e644322dbefb0371e63f48275234e288.jpg

[midnightpulp]

im not a povertyball fan at all :lol... equally boring to watch as beisbol. i'm just not buying that prince fielder runs faster than ronaldo

Currently? Of course not.

When Prince was younger? Easily. See my latest post that illustrates that Ronaldo would have to accelerate like Usain Bolt to post a 4.6 40 yard dash time. The NFL combine is filled with 275lb-300lb fatass linemen who run the 40 in that range, so I don't get why you think it's a stretch that Prince, in high school, could run a 4.6-4.7ish 40?

We also have top speed data, as well. Ronaldo's top speed is 20.9 mph. Last year Prince topped out at 18.2 mph in the worst shape of his life.

Shredded, lean, and athletic looking doesn't = fast.

[midnightpulp]

Dumbass, the fastest 200m sprinter in the history Great Britain was a futbol player in the lower divisions. If there was such a thing as field running in futbol then he would have been playing for Real Madrid.:lol

ULFp_cIhMR8




A sport which prides itself as being America's PAST-time while referring to the dark ages b/c the current state of the league is worse than segregation.:lol

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/e6/44/32/e644322dbefb0371e63f48275234e288.jpg

:lol Hasn't played soccer since 2011 and has been a fulltime sprinter ever since.
:lol "He's a soccer player, guys."

21 second 200m time as a teenager and he's not even the fastest guy on his own team :lmao

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulo_Orlando

[Kawhitstorm]

Let's give Fagnaldo Bolt's 30-40m split time of .87 seconds (something I find ridiculous) to estimate how fast Ronaldo would run 25m to 35m.

3.61 + .87 = a 4.48 35m time. Still have 1.6 meters to go. .87 x .16 = .1392 seconds. 4.48 + .1392 = 4.61

So Fagnaldo would have to accelerate like Usain Bolt (:lmao) to post a 4.61 second 40 time, which would be a slow 40 time for a position player at the NFL combine.

Dumbass, there are people who train for speed & there are those that train for speed-ENDURANCE. In Futbol you need BOTH speed & endurance to be a world class winger like Ronaldo. If you know anything about sprinting you would realize that Bolt would struggle to break 10 seconds consistently if he just trained for the 200m. Michael Johnson has the second fastest 100m split EVER but NEVER broke 10 second in a 100m dash so according to you he isn't a world class sprinter.

6FEh7hDpGp0

[Kawhitstorm]

:lol Hasn't played soccer since 2011 and has been a fulltime sprinter ever since.
:lol "He's a soccer player, guys."

:cryWhy don't they have base runners in Futbol:cry


21 second 200m time as a teenager and he's not even the fastest guy on his own team :lmao

That will tell you all you need about how much speed training futbol players focus on when a guy who couldn't break 21 seconds breaks the record after 6 months training.:lol

[midnightpulp]

Dumbass, there are people who train for speed & there are those that train for speed-ENDURANCE. In Futbol you need BOTH speed & endurance to be a world class winger like Ronaldo. If you know anything about sprinting you would realize that Bolt would struggle to break 10 seconds consistently if he just trained for the 200m. Michael Johnson has the second fastest 100m split EVER but NEVER broke 10 second in a 100m dash so according to you he isn't a world class sprinter.

6FEh7hDpGp0

:cry T-They train for it differently :cry

I would bet you the moon that soccer players train up sprinting more than baseball players, especially considering the MLB season is 162 games with little time in between to workout intensively. Hell, baseball players devote time to vision training. http://www.si.com/edge/2015/04/21/seeing-the-benefit-mlb-vision-training-tampa-bay-rays


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYoEMi8LzRI

Look at all that sprinting!

And he's still faster than Fagnaldo. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

:cryWhy don't they have base runners in Futbol:cry



That will tell you all you need about how much speed training futbol players focus on when a guy who couldn't break 21 seconds breaks the record after 6 months training.:lol

You're kidding, right? Gemili was a junior sprinter. It's not like he was floptrot player languishing around and then suddenly decided to take up sprinting.


At the National Junior Athletic League Finals Gemili won the 200 metres in 20.98, which was the fastest time by a European junior in 2011.[17]

Like I said, about the same as Orlando's junior time, and Orlando isn't even the fastest guy on his team :lol

End of the day, fastest in game recorded speed for floptrot: 21.8mph

Fastest in game recorded speed in the MLB: 23.3mph.

:downspin:

[Kawhitstorm]

And here's a baseball player easily doing some soccer tricks dicking around on instagram:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3mGuCYz98A


Bruh, there was a dude in college that use to think he was the shyt b/c he could do similar moves on an empty field but was a bum in an actual game. Being able to control the ball w/ the back of your neck is as transferable as And-1 players dribbling w/ their elbows.:lol

[midnightpulp]

Bruh, there was a dude in college that use to think he was the shyt b/c he could do similar moves on an empty field but was a bum in an actual game. Being able to control the ball w/ the back of your neck is as transferable as And-1 players dribbling w/ their elbows.:lol

You miss the essential point of this debate. I'm going to shitpost with numerous examples of baseball players doing impressive athletic feats (many of which exceed those of the most athletic soccer players) when the soccer crew shitposts about baseball players being fat and unathletic.

You could see how I already got your crew scrambling. First, it was "They're all fat and slow!" I come in, and now it's "The training is different!" "13.8 body fat isn't really that good!" "Soccer is a stamina game!"

So you guys can just the L and admit error, or we can keep going.

[Kawhitstorm]

I would bet you the moon that soccer players train up sprinting more than baseball players, especially considering the MLB season is 162 games with little time in between to workout intensively. Hell, baseball players devote time to vision training. http://www.si.com/edge/2015/04/21/seeing-the-benefit-mlb-vision-training-tampa-bay-rays


You dumb ****, futbol players spend most of their off days in the trainer rooms b/c they actually have to use their muscles. They pick up numerous lower extremity injuries which means they have to sit out games let alone training sessions. If you aren't fit then you can't play futbol unlike Besibol were you can just make 'em a DH even if they can't walk.:lol

Futbol players get their aerobic workouts by ACTUALLY playing 90 minute games, meanwhile beisbol players have to be put on a weight loss program.:lol It's only the bench warmer that are required to put in extra work during training session in futbol.

[Kawhitstorm]

You miss the essential point of this debate. I'm going to shitpost with numerous examples of baseball players doing impressive athletic feats (many of which exceed those of the most athletic soccer players) when the soccer crew shitposts about baseball players being fat and unathletic.


Better than Ronaldo::wow

afgBscNoESE

[Kawhitstorm]

I'll leave you with one of your floptrot players trying to play the great American sport of baseball:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WliM1w1MWDk


A besibol superstar trying out female sport:

gm9iZnqGMvY

[Kawhitstorm]

You're kidding, right? Gemili was a junior sprinter. It's not like he was floptrot player languishing around and then suddenly decided to take up sprinting.

Go to the 2 minute mark & you will CLEARLY hear your narrative getting debunked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULFp_cIhMR8&feature=youtu.be&t=117

[midnightpulp]

You dumb ****, futbol players spend most of their off days in the trainer rooms b/c they actually have to use their muscles. They pick up numerous lower extremity injuries which means they have to sit out games let alone training sessions. If you aren't fit then you can't play futbol unlike Besibol were you can just make 'em a DH even if they can't walk.:lol

Futbol players get their aerobic workouts by ACTUALLY playing 90 minute games, meanwhile beisbol players have to be put on a weight loss program.:lol It's only the bench warmer that are required to put in extra work during training session in futbol.

So much spin, it's getting comical.

And you prove my point. Soccer players play a running game, in which they get their workout during the game while continuing to train throughout the week until the next game. Baseball players play a game nearly everyday, supposedly eat like pigs, have to be put on a weight loss program, and ARE STILL ON AVERAGE FASTER THAN SOCCER PLAYERS :lmao

That's how pathetically athletic soccer players are.

"Uh, it's an aerobic/stamina game."

Fuckin' wow. Guess what, "dumbass," 102 year olds can run 10Ks (about the same distance a soccer player covers) in 90 minutes. Spin all you want about the 102 year old not having to sprint, laterally move, and such, but the point is, running is so fuckin' easy that 102 year olds can post decent 10k times.

Here's another example. Here's Robben, supposedly one of soccer's fastest sprinters:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwOxRz6vE2A

(Ignore the 37km. That wasn't his actual speed). He's dead sprinting in a straight line for the ball, and reached a top speed of


However, Robben's speed has now been amended to 31km/h - and the Dutchman is not in the least bit surprised, joking that he never felt like he was in the same category as 100 metres world record holder Usain Bolt.

"I'd already thought [37km/h] was excessive," he told Algemeen Dagblad. "I am fast, but that would have made me almost as fast as Usain Bolt!"

http://www.goal.com/en-sg/news/5456/international-football/2014/06/29/4921698/robben-i-knew-i-wasnt-as-fast-as-usain-bolt

That's about 19.26mph.

Here's Clayton Kershaw, a FUCKING PITCHER, who supposedly has to be put on a weight loss program running just as fast:

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/178752504/mike-trout-throws-out-clayton-kershaw/

And :lol at baseball players not having to use their muscles. Yeah, try generating the 2300watts of core power (about 2.5-3.0 times what the average joe can produce) required to hit a baseball with a decent exit velocity without using muscles. Or try throwing 98mph without using your muscles.

[midnightpulp]

Go to the 2 minute mark & you will CLEARLY hear your narrative getting debunked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULFp_cIhMR8&feature=youtu.be&t=117

What fuckin' "narrative?" He has logged times as a junior sprinter in competition. Again, he was already an elite sprinter BEFORE he decided to dedicate himself full-time to it. It's not like he was primarily a soccer player and then said, "Hey. I think I'm going to try out sprinting!"

Baseball wins again. This guy WASN'T a junior sprinter and is actually a complete neophyte to the world of sprinting after his baseball career flamed out:


“At 21 years of age, I felt depressed knowing that my future as a baseball player was over,” said Martinez. “I moved to Santo Domingo for athletics. I trained there during the week and played baseball at home in San Cristobal on the weekends.

http://www.iaaf.org/news/feature/yancarlos-martinez-dominican-republic-100m-20

Converted at 21 years of age and is posting sub-20.30 200m times :wow

Your boy was an elite junior sprinter at 17 years old. This guy never even saw a track until 21 :lol

[Kawhitstorm]

What fuckin' "narrative?" He has logged times as a junior sprinter in competition. Again, he was already an elite sprinter BEFORE he decided to dedicate himself full-time to it. It's not like he was primarily a soccer player and then said, "Hey. I think I'm going to try out sprinting!"

Dumbass, he didn't know how to use a starting block a month before he ever competed & that competition was an international event where he finished 2nd.:lol


Your boy was an elite junior sprinter at 17 years old. This guy never even saw a track until 21 :lol

A 24 yr old running SIGNIFICANTLY slower than a junior after the same amount of training.:lmao

[midnightpulp]

Dumbass, he didn't know how to use a starting block a month before he ever competed & that competition was an international event where he finished 2nd.:lol



A 24 yr old running slower than a junior after the same amount of training.:lmao

Your boy has 6 years of sprinting experience.

The Dominican guy has only 2 and a half years of experience.

Still doesn't matter. Gemili is NOT a professional soccer player. Hasn't played for 4 years.

Show me a soccer player running faster than 23mph in game. I'll wait.

[Kawhitstorm]

"Uh, it's an aerobic/stamina game."

Fuckin' wow. Guess what, "dumbass," 102 year olds can run 10Ks (about the same distance a soccer player covers) in 90 minutes. Spin all you want about the 102 year old not having to sprint, laterally move, and such, but the point is, running is so fuckin' easy that 102 year olds can post decent 10k times.

Yeah, SPEED endurance is the same thing as ENDURANCE.:sleep

Stick to eating pretzels & stuffing your mouth w/ wieners while you snooze through a besibol game.

[Kawhitstorm]

Your boy has 6 years of sprinting experience.

Gemili after 3 years of training: (Age 20)

-100m: 10.06
-200m: 19.98

Martinez after 3 year of training: (Age 24)

-100m: 10.15
-200m: 20.19

Now, run-tel-dat:wakeup

[midnightpulp]

Yeah, SPEED endurance is the same thing as ENDURANCE.:sleep

Stick to eating pretzels & stuffing your mouth w/ wieners while you snooze through a besibol game.

I actually don't snooze through baseball games because they actually score :lmao


In 85,694 games — dangerously close to half the total — at least one of the teams forgot to score at all. That led Curley to an answer for one of his questions: “Soccer is a bit dull,” he told me.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

Here's another example. Here's Robben, supposedly one of soccer's fastest sprinters:



The Premier League's 10 fastest players

With Olympic speedster Usain Bolt yearning for a tryout with Man United, the Sun has released an article about the fastest players in the Premier League and the winner is….(drum roll) Arsenal winger Theo Walcott. According to the research, Bolt managed to hit a maximum speed of 24.04 miles per hour during his World Championship runs in Berlin, and Walcott can reach a speed of 22.72 mph. Apparently Bolt slowed down a little at this summer’s Olympics where he won golds in the 100 and 200 meter races.

What may surprise a lot of people is that former Gunner, Spurs, and Newcastle star Sol Campbell came in second at 22.50 mph. I’m not exactly sure how the speeds were calculated, but Castrol supposedly used information and data that they gathered over two Premier League seasons. Ex and current Chelsea stars Didier Drogba and Fernando Torres ranked third at 22.27 mph each. United's Wayne Rooney came in eighth at 21.82 mph.

The stats say that Walcott can run 10.1 meters per second and if he could keep that pace up he could run the 100 meters in 9.9 seconds. Bolt’s world record was set in Berlin when he ran the 100 meters in 9.58 seconds. Campbell’s speed would see him run it in 10.1secs.
According to Castrol, these are/were the 10 fastest players in the Premier League over the time of their study. Theo Walcott at 22.72 mph, Sol Campbell-22.50 mph, Didier Drogba and Fernando Torres-22.27 mph, Nicolas Anelka 22.05 mph, Cesc Fabregas 22.05 mph, Ashley Cole 22.05 mph, Gael Clichy-21.82 mph, Wayne Rooney 21.82 mph, Steven Gerrard-21.60 mph, and Robinho at 21.60 mph.

Of course it’d be interesting to see how fast these players can run while also controlling the ball:

fvWzYILzqWs

[Kawhitstorm]

I actually don't snooze through baseball games because they actually score :lmao

http://boobnewb.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/baseball-players-sleeping.gif

[midnightpulp]

Gemili after 3 years of training: (Age 20)

-100m: 10.06
-200m: 19.98

Martinez after 3 year of training: (Age 24)

-100m: 10.15
-200m: 20.19

Now, run-tel-dat:wakeup

What Premier league team does Gemili play for?

Or does he play in La Liga? Bundesliga?

This was one of your worst counterarguments ever, tbh.

"I know. I'll search google and find the one guy that converted from minor league soccer to full-time sprinter and use his time to show soccer players are faster than baseball players!"

All I want is one example of a soccer player running faster than 23.3 mph in game.

Can you do that?

[midnightpulp]

The Premier League's 10 fastest players

With Olympic speedster Usain Bolt yearning for a tryout with Man United, the Sun has released an article about the fastest players in the Premier League and the winner is….(drum roll) Arsenal winger Theo Walcott. According to the research, Bolt managed to hit a maximum speed of 24.04 miles per hour during his World Championship runs in Berlin, and Walcott can reach a speed of 22.72 mph. Apparently Bolt slowed down a little at this summer’s Olympics where he won golds in the 100 and 200 meter races.

What may surprise a lot of people is that former Gunner, Spurs, and Newcastle star Sol Campbell came in second at 22.50 mph. I’m not exactly sure how the speeds were calculated, but Castrol supposedly used information and data that they gathered over two Premier League seasons. Ex and current Chelsea stars Didier Drogba and Fernando Torres ranked third at 22.27 mph each. United's Wayne Rooney came in eighth at 21.82 mph.

The stats say that Walcott can run 10.1 meters per second and if he could keep that pace up he could run the 100 meters in 9.9 seconds. Bolt’s world record was set in Berlin when he ran the 100 meters in 9.58 seconds. Campbell’s speed would see him run it in 10.1secs.
According to Castrol, these are/were the 10 fastest players in the Premier League over the time of their study. Theo Walcott at 22.72 mph, Sol Campbell-22.50 mph, Didier Drogba and Fernando Torres-22.27 mph, Nicolas Anelka 22.05 mph, Cesc Fabregas 22.05 mph, Ashley Cole 22.05 mph, Gael Clichy-21.82 mph, Wayne Rooney 21.82 mph, Steven Gerrard-21.60 mph, and Robinho at 21.60 mph.

Of course it’d be interesting to see how fast these players can run while also controlling the ball:

fvWzYILzqWs

Source looks kind of shitty. Sorry, bro.

I trust FIFA's data (they actually have sensor timing gates set up 40m apart):

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/fifa-reveals-the-fastest-footballer-in-the-world-202540390.html

[Kawhitstorm]

What Premier league team does Gemili play for?

Or does he play in La Liga? Bundesliga?

This was one of your worst counterarguments ever, tbh.

"I know. I'll search google and find the one guy that converted from minor league soccer to full-time sprinter and use his time to show soccer players are faster than baseball players!"

Big Dummy, you got ethered for claiming all you need is speed/endurance to play futbol when the a world class sprinter who trained since he was a kid couldn't make it.

As far as your but Martinez "almost made it" narrative, Theo Walcott is the fastest player in the PL & youngest player in history to score a hat-trick for England.

[Kawhitstorm]

Source looks kind of shitty. Sorry, bro.

I trust FIFA's data (they actually have sensor timing gates set up 40m apart):

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/fifa-reveals-the-fastest-footballer-in-the-world-202540390.html

So you think white dudes are the fastest futbol players::lol


Walcott is well known for his blistering pace,with former Barcelona (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Barcelona) manager Pep Guardiola (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pep_Guardiola) declaring that "you would need a pistol to stop him."He has been likened by Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars%C3%A8ne_Wenger) to the club's all-time leading scorer, Thierry Henry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Henry).FIFA World Player of the Year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Player_of_the_Year) winner Lionel Messi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi) has described Walcott as "one of the most dangerous players I have ever played against."In addition to his speed, Walcott also possesses good balance, movement and technique.

[midnightpulp]

Big Dummy, you got ethered for claiming all you need is speed/endurance to play futbol when the a world class sprinter couldn't make it.

As far as your but Martinez "almost made it" narrative, Theo Walcott is the fastest player in the PL & youngest player in history to score a hat-trick for England.

I have never claimed that. I believe soccer is a skill game first, athletic game second (the slowest player in a non-keeper position in the EPL is about as fast as David Ortiz. 16mph top sprint speed). I think the game takes more skill to play than something like American football for instance, where you can convert world class athletes into a great NFL player.

This entire argument is centered on athleticism, you know, strength, speed, agility, stamina, leaping ability. Your crew constantly claims baseball players aren't athletic because a few players at specialist positions are fat. I obliterate that stupid fuckin' argument, and the spinning and googling begins.

Yeah, I'm a bit salty and have spent too much time on this bullshit, because I hate stupid fuckin' arguments.

[midnightpulp]

So you think white dudes are the fastest futbol players::lol

You're right. Finally confirmed by FIFA


With a maximum speed of 22.2 mph Walcott from Arsenal is ahead of Antonio Valencia from Manchester United FC with 21.9 mph and ahead of the 100 million euro man Gareth Bale who recorded 21.6 mph.

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2013/09/23/theo-walcott-is-the-fastest-football-player-ahead-of-valencia-an/

Still slower than Billy, Trea, Trayce, Cespedes, and a few others in baseball :lmao

And if you want to use "white boy" logic, then you would have to admit that a quick brother like Billy Hamilton or Terrence Gore would probably be a better sprinter than half white/Arab Gemili if they converted. Like I said, Orlando was about as fast as a junior sprinter as Gemili, and he gets torched by Gore on his own team.

Still, Gemili isn't a soccer player, so this point is moot.

[LkrFan]

McHale was legit, and decimated Hakeem in the '86 Finals, but no, not comparable to Duncan. The writer can talk about Kevin's PPG all he wants, but 80's basketball didn't employ many double teams. Furthermore, 80's ball was played at a faster pace.

If McHale played today, he'd be maybe a half-tier above a prime Pau Gasol. Top 20-30 player in the league.

Duncan also easily bests McHale in PP100 stats, the only stat that should be used when comparing players of different eras.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mchalke01.html

And McHale isn't in the same universe per Advanced metrics.

Prime McHale would destroy Prime Jim. This, from a Laker Fan.

[midnightpulp]

All the baseball players (that I know of) that would hold Walcott's record:

Yoenis Cespedes: 23.6 mph
Billy Hamilton: 23.3 mph
Trea Turner: 22.7 mph
Delino DeShields Jr.: 22.6 mph
Terrance Gore: 22.4 mph
Trayce Thompson: 22.3 mph

:toast

[midnightpulp]

Prime McHale would destroy Prime Jim. This, from a Laker Fan.

Shaq really couldn't, and you think the 215lb McHale could :lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

Still slower than Billy, Trea, Trayce, Cespedes, and a few others in baseball :lmao

Billy has a .300 OBP :lol


And if you want to use "white boy" logic, then you would have to admit that a quick brother like Billy Hamilton or Terrence Gore would probably be a better sprinter than half white/Arab Gemili if they converted. Like I said, Orlando was about as fast as a junior sprinter as Gemili, and he gets torched by Gore on his own team.

Gemili is the 3rd fastest 200m teenage sprinter in HISTORY, not just among white sprinters. :lol

[LkrFan]

Shaq really couldn't, and you think the 215lb McHale could :lmao

Yes, I do. It would be like 1994 (Admiral vs Dream). McHale had just as many low post moves IMO.

And :lol at you forgetting Pop hiding Jim on Medvedenko for the 1st 3.5 quarters to keep Jim from fouling out in 8 minutes. Even Dick Jefferson could guard Shaq in the last 6 minutes of the game. That's how 21 year old Kobe became our closer.

Matter of fact, the last time he was healthy in the playoffs, he closed Jim out...just like that! :toast

[midnightpulp]

Billy out there batting .240 :lol



Gemili is the 3rd fastest 200m teenage sprinter in HISTORY, not just among white sprinters & he did it after 3 years of training. :lol

Who cares? He's a not a soccer player.

Some more data:

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/02753/Speed_a_1500x1300_2753229a.jpg

Fastest EPL speeds this year. Still don't touch what we've seen in the MLB this season :toast

Why bring up Billy's batting average? We're talking about athleticism here.

Swallow det pride and just admit you were wrong about baseball players being unathletic? I mean, if they're unathletic, what does that make floptrot players who can't even beat these "fatties" in a race :lol

Check this out, bro. That's 6'5" 250lb running 21.2 mph :wow

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/73955164/v933890683/miastl-stanton-runs-over-20-mph-on-two-diving-grabs/?query=stanton%2Bstatcast

Faster than Ronaldo's fastest ever recorded top speed.

"Fatball" yeah, okay :lol

[midnightpulp]

Yes, I do. It would be like 1994 (Admiral vs Dream). McHale had just as many low post moves IMO.

And :lol at you forgetting Pop hiding Jim on Medvedenko for the 1st 3.5 quarters to keep Jim from fouling out in 8 minutes. Even Dick Jefferson could guard Shaq in the last 6 minutes of the game. That's how 21 year old Kobe became our closer.

Matter of fact, the last time he was healthy in the playoffs, he closed Jim out...just like that! :toast

We've already slapped down that myth in another thread.

Ahem...


I decided to go over the 01, 02, 03 Lakers/Spurs playoffs series to see who was primarily guarding Shaq and how effective they were in guarding him. I didn't go over every possession, but I decided to look at every FGA and turnovers forced that Shaq had in those games. I didn't get every game from that 01-03 span because youtube didn't have all of them, but I did get a majority of the games.

vs. Duncan: 21-49 (.429), 8 TOV (5 of them charges/offensive fouls drawn)

vs. Robinson: 31-63 (.492), 5 TOV (1 offensive foul)

vs. Rose: 15-27 (.556), 2 TOV (2 offensive fouls)

vs. Other big men (Bryant, Willis, Walker): 6-12, 1 TOV (1 offensive foul)

vs. Guards: 0-3

vs. open shots with no one guarding Shaq: 11-13

I also kept track of double teams both before the shot and double teams during the shot (sometimes both happened). I didn't count double teams that had no effect on the shot or soft double teams.

vs. Duncan: 11 before shot, 14 after shot, 20 total double teams (35.1% double team%)

vs. Robinson: 10 before shot, 15 after shot, 23 total double teams (33.8% double team%)

vs. Rose: 4 before shot, 5 after shot (33.3% double team%)

vs. other big men: 2 before shot, 3 after shot, 3 total double teams (23.1 double team%)

In 2003, The Spurs made a concerted effort not to double Shaq. They even mentioned it in one of the broadcasts where Popovich told them that they didn't want anyone else to beat them. In the other years, Shaq got a decent amount of double teams and very few triple teams. Most of the double teams I saw were soft and had no effect. Shaq was making his move by the time the double came.


Now here are the stats for who was guarding Shaq in the games Duncan/Robinson played (Robinson missed 1 of the games). This is why I started the project. I wanted to see if Robinson was the sole Shaq defender or if the Spurs took turns defending him.

Duncan 31.0%
Robinson 46.9%
Rose 19.3%
Willis 2.1%
Walker 0.7%

I didn't include any wide open shots or times when guards defended him. Usually, Robinson started off the game vs. Shaq. Then Rose would come in and guard Shaq and take turns with Duncan. Usually in the middle of the game, Duncan and Robinson took turns guarding Shaq even in clutch situations.

Here are Shaq's numbers from 01-03 including regular season and playoffs vs. Spurs.


Per 36 numbers:
vs. Rest of league: 57.4 FG%, .583 TS%, 26.6 PPG, 11.2 Reb, 3.10 AST, 2.71 TOV
vs. With Robinson on Court: 51.7 FG%, .545 TS%, 22.9 PPG, 12.1 Reb, 3.08 AST, 2.75 TOV
Difference: -5.7 FG%, -3.8 TS%, -3.7 PPG, +0.9 Reb, -0.02 AST, +0.04 TOV

Per 36 numbers:
vs. David Robinson: 51.7 FG%, .545 TS%, 22.9 PPG, 12.1 Reb, 3.08 AST, 2.75 TOV
vs. Robinson off the court: 49.5 FG%, .528 TS%, 21.5 PPG, 11.1 Reb, 1.99 AST, 2.68 TOV
Difference: -2.2 FG%, -1.7 TS%, -1.4 PPG, -1.0 Reb, -1.09 AST, -0.07 TOV

Duncan looked slightly better vs. Shaq and the numbers back it up. There were plenty of instances where Shaq couldn't back down Duncan. But Shaq did dunk on him quite a bit. Shaq dunked on everyone from the Spurs.

I expect you to :downspin: as much as the floptrot crew has been.

[LkrFan]

We've already slapped down that myth in another thread.

Ahem...



I expect you to :downspin: as much as the floptrot crew has been.

Great strategy by Pop. In the end, it's still 4-2, Kobe. Forever. :toast

[midnightpulp]

Great strategy by Pop. In the end, it's still 4-2, Kobe. Forever. :toast

Just like it's 2-1 Nash and 1-0 Dirk :lmao

[LkrFan]

Just like it's 2-1 Nash and 1-0 Dirk :lmao

Not exactly, but OK. :)

[midnightpulp]

Not exactly, but OK. :)

Exactly the same thing. Kirby is 1-3 vs. Nash and Dirk.

Or maybe don't be an idiot and use head-to-head matchups as proof of anything?

Until basketball becomes a 1-on-1 game, head-to-head is meaningless in player comparison.

How about this?

8>12 :toast

[Kawhitstorm]

Faster than Ronaldo's fastest ever recorded top speed.



Yeah, David Ortiz can't outrun my grandmother & he's an MVP candidate.:lol

This is the equivalent of the original Ronaldo still being a world-class player since he still has his skills intact despite losing his raw athleticism.:lol

All the world class footballers have BOTH athleticism & skills not one or the other.:wakeup

The GOAT besibol player:

http://s3-media3.ak.yelpcdn.com/ephoto/pa9BdBx_a40hZdTUxpJBZw/l.jpg

[midnightpulp]

Yeah, David Ortiz can't outrun my grandmother & he's an MVP candidate.:lol

This is the equivalent of the original Ronaldo still being a world-class player since he still has his skills intact despite losing his raw athleticism.:lol

Ortiz cranked it up to 16.4mph here.

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/73955164/v593179383/torbos-ortiz-runs-16-mph-to-steal-second-base

Top speeds reached in a soccer match:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/13/article-2558428-1B74C21600000578-939_634x635.jpg

Ortiz isn't slow. Again, shredded=/=fast.

[BD24]

I wouldnt say boring bit its slow.
That is why Vin Scully is so amazing ...his storytelling and wit without trying to hard helps make a 2-1 game feel epic.
I also enjoy sovcer hated ut as a kid ...except plsying ...but the nuance and skill it takes should be appreciated same as with baseball i dont nornally watch fullgames matches etc of any sport except hoops and american football though but soccer is probably third ...on amount of time i spend watching over nhl and mlb


Oh forgot bixing ill watch all 12 rounds of a good fight too
Those are pretty rare these days my man.

[midnightpulp]

Yeah, David Ortiz can't outrun my grandmother & he's an MVP candidate.:lol

This is the equivalent of the original Ronaldo still being a world-class player since he still has his skills intact despite losing his raw athleticism.:lol

All the world class footballers have BOTH athleticism & skills not one or the other.:wakeup

The GOAT besibol player:

http://s3-media3.ak.yelpcdn.com/ephoto/pa9BdBx_a40hZdTUxpJBZw/l.jpg

Missed your edit.

What the fuck do you think strength is, dumbass?

Ortiz an MVP candidate :lmao

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/sort/WARBR/league/al/year/2016/seasontype/2

Duncan is a terrible all around athlete in his current form. Hasn't jumped higher than 10" in 3 seasons. Can't run worth a shit. And yet, he was still a top 12 player per RPM last season, and still showed he could play well offensively on a bad knee when he scored 19 points in the Game 6 closeout game. So by your logic, basketball players aren't athlete because a 40 year old with bad knees can be one of the better players in the league :wakeup

Quit spinning and just admit your error, and we end this debate and move on.

[Kawhitstorm]

Ortiz cranked it up to 16.4mph here.

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/73955164/v593179383/torbos-ortiz-runs-16-mph-to-steal-second-base

Top speeds reached in a soccer match:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/13/article-2558428-1B74C21600000578-939_634x635.jpg

Ortiz isn't slow. Again, shredded=/=fast.

Mertesacker is faster than Ortiz but listen to what fans have to say about him::lol

13ClDQfCk_I

[midnightpulp]

Mertesacker is faster than Ortiz but listen to what fans have to say about him::lol

13ClDQfCk_I

I don't care. Mertwhatever is a slow soccer player and Ortiz is a slow baseball player, and they're both in the same speed range. The average MLB speed per MPH on the basepaths according to statcast is 19.5mph.

Quit fuckin' spinning and just take the L.

[midnightpulp]

And still posting Ruth :lol

"I'll post a fat baseball player from 90 years ago. That'll show 'em!"

That said, the GOAT soccer player is a literal (not figurative) midget.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01656/maradona_1656809c.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/AciysRoCMAANiaO.jpg

And he didn't play 90 years ago in a weak era :lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

Ortiz an MVP candidate :lmao

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/sort/WARBR/league/al/year/2016/seasontype/2
(http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/sort/WARBR/league/al/year/2016/seasontype/2)


Odds as of July 13 at Bovada (http://www.oddsshark.com/sites/all/links/bovada.php)



Mike Trout (LAA) +350
Josh Donaldson (TOR) +375
Jose Altuve (HOU) +500
Manny Machado (BAL) +550
Robinson Cano (SEA) +600
David Ortiz (BOS) +600
Mookie Betts (BOS) +1200
Xander Bogaerts (BOS) +1600
Miguel Cabrera (DET) +2500
Jackie Bradley Jr. (BOS) +2500
Nelson Cruz (SEA) +2500



:wakeup



Duncan is a terrible all around athlete in his current form. Hasn't jumped higher than 10" in 3 seasons. Can't run worth a shit. And yet, he was still a top 12 player per RPM last season, and still showed he could play well offensively on a bad knee when he scored 19 points in the Game 6 closeout game. So by your logic, basketball players aren't athlete because a 40 year old with bad knees can be one of the better players in the league

Tim plays a position where HEIGHT matters A LOT & he's in the top 1% as far as height goes. Besides, he used to beat centers down the floor as recently as last season. Meanwhile, Ortiz is HEALTHY & has ALWAYS been a below average athlete.

Ortiz is putting up RAW numbers on par w/ his PEAK, Tim was averaging 8 pts.:wakeup

[Kawhitstorm]

I don't care. Mertwhatever is a slow soccer player and Ortiz is a slow baseball player, and they're both in the same speed range. The average MLB speed per MPH on the basepaths according to statcast is 19.5mph.

Quit fuckin' spinning and just take the L.

Who the hell cares what the pinch runner's foot-speed is if he's a scrub at the plate.:sleep

You need BOTH athleticism & skill to be a world-class footballer like Ronaldo/Messi/Bale which isn't the case in Besibol.:lol

[midnightpulp]

Who the hell cares what the pinch runner's foot-speed is if he's a scrub at the plate.:lol

You need BOTH athleticism & skill to be a world-class footballer like Ronaldo/Messi/Bale unlike besibol.

Billy Hamilton isn't a "scrub" at the plate. He's an average player with starter metrics. Try again.

Again, when does strength not count as an athletic trait, dumbass?

Yeah, the kind of strength Ortiz has to be able to hit balls 450 feet just grows on trees :lol

[midnightpulp]

:wakeup




Tim plays a position where HEIGHT matters A LOT & he's in the top 1% as far as height goes. Besides, he used to beat centers down the floor as recently as last season. Meanwhile, Ortiz is HEALTHY & has ALWAYS been a below average athlete.

Ortiz is putting up RAW numbers on par w/ his PEAK, Tim was averaging 8 pts.:wakeup

Nope. Because strength is one of the most important athletic traits you can have in many sports, and Ortiz has FAR ABOVE AVERAGE strength relative to the general population. Again, dumbshit, when does fat=/=unathletic? You've sidestepped that question for a month now.

And Ortiz still geared it up to 16.4 mph at fuckin' 40. Slow by baseball standards, but fast by general population standards and ON PAR with the speeds the slowest soccer players run. Try again.

And :lmao at Vegas odds. No baseball writer is going to consider a DH who is 12th in WAR for the MVP.

I know I've got you spinning when you're referencing Tim's PPG. You of all people, an advanced metrics guy, resorting to raw stats because you just can't stop spinning. Duncan had the 12th best floor impact of all starters last season. He was, by all accounts, a star level player and an ELITE defender. Just like Ortiz is an ELITE hitter.

Suck up your pride, admit error, and we can finally move on.

[midnightpulp]

This skinny fat beanpole's top recorded speed is 15.9 mph:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/18/11/2265D57100000578-0-image-a-105_1463567499133.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/09/15/1410772576334_wps_2_image001_png.jpg


Perhaps the major problem with Januzaj and Dortmund is the fact that the pair were never a good match in the first place. Januzaj can be scintillating on the ball, but his work off the ball leaves a lot to be desired. The winger’s slight frame means it’s easy for opposition defenders to muscle him off the ball. Additionally, Januzaj is not one to track back and is often slow in closing down.

Slower than Ortiz. :lol

So since he doesn't have any speed nor strength, what athletic traits does this guy possess? By all accounts, he seems to be a FAR BELOW AVERAGE athlete. At least Ortiz excels in strength. This guy excels in nothing.

"You need athleticism and skills to be a world class soccer player." lmao

Here's where Kawhitstorm tells me making it to the Premier League isn't world class, especially considering the billion deep talent pool.

[Kawhitstorm]

And still posting Ruth :lol

"I'll post a fat baseball player from 90 years ago. That'll show 'em!"

That said, the GOAT soccer player is a literal (not figurative) midget.

And he didn't play 90 years ago in a weak era :lmao

What the hell does him being 5'3" has to do with his athleticism?:downspin:

He had everything you need from a playmaker: one top of being supremely skilled, he was quick, agile, strong & had a non-stop motor ala Chris Paul except he wasn't a choker.:lol


A classic number 10 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playmaker), Maradona was renowned for his dribbling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dribbling) ability, vision, close ball control, passing and creativity, and is considered one of the most skillful players ever.[78] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Maradona#cite_note-number_10-79)[85] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Maradona#cite_note-86)[86] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Maradona#cite_note-87) He had a compact physique, and with his strong legs and low center of gravity he could withstand physical pressure well while running with the ball.[87] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Maradona#cite_note-88) Dutch legend Johan Cruyff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Cruyff) saw similarities between Maradona and Lionel Messi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi) with the ball seemingly attached to their body when dribbling.[88] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Maradona#cite_note-89) His physical strengths were illustrated by his two goals against Belgium in the 1986 World Cup. He was a strategist and a team player, as well as highly technical with the ball. He could manage himself effectively in limited spaces, and would attract defenders only to quickly dash out of the melee (as in the second 1986-goal against England),[89] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Maradona#cite_note-90) or give an assist to a free teammate. Being short, but strong, he could hold the ball long enough with a defender on his back to wait for a teammate making a run or to find a gap for a quick shot.

A guy that had a speed-endurance translatable to the football pitch is none other than 2000m/5k/10k/X-country world-record holder Kenenisa Bekele, all 5'4" of him:

---LOIB8idE

[midnightpulp]

What the hell does him being 5'3" has to do with his athleticism?:downspin:

He had everything you need from a playmaker: one top of being supremely skilled, he was quick, agile, strong & had a non-stop motor ala Chris Paul except he wasn't a choker.:lol





You're finally getting it. FINALLY. Physique doesn't define athleticism.

Even your favorite player Pablo Sandoval recorded a higher top speed than this "shredded" soccer player:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/09/15/1410772576334_wps_2_image001_png.jpg

https://s1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/tY4lOKG7QdUPacw63Ma8Jg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9Mzc3O2lsPXBsYW 5lO3B4b2ZmPTUwO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTY3MA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2015-06-11/7d688e00-108f-11e5-9efd-09673335581f_50a1ee7cf72e021c37659434aeb25f274f2b9 c87.jpg

https://twitter.com/statcast/status/521652161176825856

I don't care about African marathon runners. Irrelevant to this debate.

Gonna keep spinning, or will you finally admit baseball players aren't unathletic?

[Kawhitstorm]

Nope. Because strength is one of the most important athletic traits you can have in many sports, and Ortiz has FAR ABOVE AVERAGE strength relative to the general population. Again, dumbshit, when does fat=/=unathletic? You've sidestepped that question for a month now.

Dumbass, Original Ronaldo was strong & skilled when he was past his prime.:lol


And Ortiz still geared it up to 16.4 mph at fuckin' 40. MVP status by baseball standards, but scrub status by futbol standards

FIFY


And :lmao at Vegas odds. No baseball writer is going to consider a DH who is 12th in WAR for the MVP.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/24/sports/baseball/david-ortiz-red-sox-is-hitting-like-an-mvp.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2653402-could-david-ortiz-cap-historic-farewell-season-with-al-mvp

:wakeup


I know I've got you spinning when you're referencing Tim's PPG. You of all people, an advanced metrics guy, resorting to raw stats because you just can't stop spinning. Duncan had the 12th best floor impact of all starters last season. He was, by all accounts, a star level player and an ELITE defender. Just like Ortiz is an ELITE hitter.

Tim was an elite defender who played ZERO meaningful minutes against the Duds.:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

This skinny fat beanpole's top recorded speed is 15.9 mph:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/18/11/2265D57100000578-0-image-a-105_1463567499133.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/09/15/1410772576334_wps_2_image001_png.jpg

Slower than Ortiz. :lol

Extrapolated from a sample size of 8 minutes. LMAO at the GK (de Gea) even being tracked for speed.:lmao


So since he doesn't have any speed nor strength, what athletic traits does this guy possess? By all accounts, he seems to be a FAR BELOW AVERAGE athlete. At least Ortiz excels in strength. This guy excels in nothing.

There is a reason why the guy is an end of the bench scrub & not world-class.:wakeup


Here's where Kawhitstorm tells me making it to the Premier League isn't world class, especially considering the billion deep talent pool.

Here is where I tell you a bench warmer is supposed to be a scrub.:sleep

[midnightpulp]

Dumbass, Original Ronaldo was strong & skilled when he was past his prime.:lol

A 180lb soccer player being stronger than a 260lb 6'3" baseball player :lmao

Quit fuckin' deflecting you stupid piece of shit. Is strength an important athletic trait or not? Does David Ortiz have ELITE strength by professional athlete standards or not?


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/24/sports/baseball/david-ortiz-red-sox-is-hitting-like-an-mvp.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2653402-could-david-ortiz-cap-historic-farewell-season-with-al-mvp

:lmao Bleacher Report articles.

I'm talking about BBWA certified writers. Not bloggers (the writer of the NYTimes piece blogs about such subjects as the Gabor Sisters and Ducks :lol)

Tim was an elite defender. +5.43 DRPM, and none of your dumbshit spinning will change that fact.

[midnightpulp]

Extrapolated from a sample size of 8 minutes. LMAO at the GK (de Gea) even being tracked for speed.:lmao



There is a reason why the guy is an end of the bench scrub & not world-class.:wakeup



Here is where I tell you a bench warmer is supposed to be a scrub.:sleep

:lol Trying to spin it as if making it to top 1 or 2 league in the World out of a talent pool of BILLIONS isn't a world class feat.

This weird looking thing is known for being slow as shit. I wish we had sprint speed data on him, but we don't. Doesn't look at all strong and probably can't jump worth a shit:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/18/article-2280311-17A3A0D6000005DC-444_634x534.jpg

He was a top 30 goal scorer during the 2014/15 season.

A top 30 goal scorer in a top 2 league in the World that billions of people are trying to make it into from birth.

"That's not world class."

:lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

You're finally getting it. FINALLY. Physique doesn't define athleticism.

Yeah, being fat has nothing to do with athleticism which is why Shaq's athleticism didn't decline in a matter of 2 seasons ('00 to '02) when he put on weight.:rolleyes

[Kawhitstorm]

A 180lb soccer player being stronger than a 260lb 6'3" baseball player :lmao

Quit fuckin' deflecting you stupid piece of shit. Is strength an important athletic trait or not? Does David Ortiz have ELITE strength by professional athlete standards or not?

I guess he could have still carved out a HOF career if he was on a wheelchair as long as he's taking his PEDs. :lmao

http://sportsunbiased.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/david-ortiz-essay-peds-lance-armstrong-meme.jpg


I'm talking about BBWA certified writers.
Show me an article by "BBWA certified writers" that talks about the AL MVP race.:wakeup


Tim was an elite defender. +5.43 DRPM, and none of your dumbshit spinning will change that fact.

Yeah, Tim was an elite defender except against the team that was built to expose him on defense. There is a reason he came off the bench to play garbage minutes for the first time in his career against the Duds.:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

A top 30 goal scorer in a top 2 league in the World that billions of people are trying to make it into from birth.

"That's not world class."

:lmao

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Miami+Heat+v+San+Antonio+Spurs+Vmzsu8FNkyrx.jpg

This guy led the NBA in three-point field goal percentage for a season in the BEST league in the World by a mile that hundreds of millions of people are trying to make it into from birth but only 446 roster spots are available.

"That's not world class."

:lmao

[midnightpulp]

Yeah, being fat has nothing to do with athleticism which is why Shaq's athleticism didn't decline in a matter of 2 seasons ('00 to '02) when he put on weight.:rolleyes

"Basketball is the only athletic game out there."

Can you be any more retarded?

Rugby players:

http://images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/69/590x/382460_1.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/10/article-2047574-0E50C87A00000578-934_224x423.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47243000/jpg/_47243921_jacobsen282.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-z8jvMjdVOqs/VNkHfjYzHlI/AAAAAAAACYo/uoNEwGufo7Y/s1600/henry-tuilagi.jpg

NFL players (laugh all you want, but these guys are posting 5.0 40 times at 350lb and are strong as all shit):

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/385751/andre-smith_medium.jpg

http://www.setcelebs.com/images/cortez-kennedy-04.jpg

Boxers:

http://video.skysports.com/Npa2E1MzE6-Lr7xW4RiymMLRjXkCM9RQ/DLOokYc8UKM-fB9H4xMDoxOjBzMTt2bJ

http://theboxingtribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/james-toney-fat.jpg

http://static0.therichestimages.com/cdn/568/408/90/cw/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/george-foreman.jpg

MMA:

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-637a6cc1eec6d1934fa171391af92962-c?convert_to_webp=true

http://www.ufcbetting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mark_hunt_8925_right30.png

Wrestling:

http://www.wyohistory.org/sites/default/files/images/gardner1.jpg

But if you want to keep fuckin' spinning because it pains you to admit baseball players are athletic, then I'll just use your logic and say that, "yeah, being a midget has nothing to do with athleticism, which is why you don't see midgets become GOATs in any ball sport aside from soccer. There's no GOAT level 5'3" tennis players, basketball players, baseball players, rugby players, volleyball players, ice hockey players, field hockey players, Aussie Rules players, Rugby League players, etc, etc, etc.

So does physique define athleticism or not?

[Kawhitstorm]

"Basketball is the only athletic game out there."

Can you be any more retarded?

Rugby players:

http://images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/69/590x/382460_1.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/10/article-2047574-0E50C87A00000578-934_224x423.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47243000/jpg/_47243921_jacobsen282.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-z8jvMjdVOqs/VNkHfjYzHlI/AAAAAAAACYo/uoNEwGufo7Y/s1600/henry-tuilagi.jpg

NFL players (laugh all you want, but these guys are posting 5.0 40 times at 350lb and are strong as all shit):

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/385751/andre-smith_medium.jpg

http://www.setcelebs.com/images/cortez-kennedy-04.jpg

Boxers:

http://video.skysports.com/Npa2E1MzE6-Lr7xW4RiymMLRjXkCM9RQ/DLOokYc8UKM-fB9H4xMDoxOjBzMTt2bJ

http://theboxingtribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/james-toney-fat.jpg

http://static0.therichestimages.com/cdn/568/408/90/cw/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/george-foreman.jpg

MMA:

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-637a6cc1eec6d1934fa171391af92962-c?convert_to_webp=true

http://www.ufcbetting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mark_hunt_8925_right30.png

Wrestling:

http://www.wyohistory.org/sites/default/files/images/gardner1.jpg



All play a sport where BRUTE strength is the MAIN pre-req & skill is secondary.:lol

Mayweather is the best at his sport despite his MAIN weakness being his strength.

Speed/skills > strength

[midnightpulp]

I guess he could have still carved out a HOF career if he was on a wheelchair as long as he's taking his PEDs. :lmao

http://sportsunbiased.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/david-ortiz-essay-peds-lance-armstrong-meme.jpg


Show me an article by "BBWA certified writers" that talks about the AL MVP race.:wakeup



Yeah, Tim was an elite defender except against the team that was built to expose him on defense. There is a reason he came off the bench to play garbage minutes for the first time in his career against the Duds.:lol

Now we're spinning by talking about PEDS :lmao

Holy shit you're pathetic. Worse than DSF. You just can't admit the obvious.

I don't need to show you shit. At no point over the past 5 years and maybe further back has the MVP being awarded to a player who didn't at least rank top 5 in WAR. Ortiz is fuckin' 12th. He's not in any "race."

Tim was an elite defender. A bad matchup vs. one team doesn't change that. And we still don't know how Tim would've actually performed against them if he got minutes. He played 20 minutes and his +/- was better than Kawhi's :lmao

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201604070GSW.html

Just. Stop. Spinning.

[Kawhitstorm]

Besibol player can't stop abusing PEDS :lmao

FIFY


I don't need to show you shit. At no point over the past 5 years and maybe further back has the MVP being awarded to a player who didn't at least rank top 5 in WAR. Ortiz is fuckin' 12th. He's not in any "race."

So, you're a "BBWA certified writers"?:wakeup


And we still don't know how Tim would've actually performed against them if he got minutes. He played 20 minutes and his +/- was better than Kawhi's :lmao

Oh, Tim w/ the Bonner garbage time +/- gem :wow

[midnightpulp]

All play a sport where BRUTE strength is the MAIN pre-req & skill is secondary.:lol

Mayweather is the best at his sport despite his MAIN weakness being his strength.

Speed/skills > strength

Since when IS STRENGTH NOT AN ATHLETIC TRAIT?

And :lmao at Greco-Roman Wrestling and MMA not taking a shit load of skill. Yeah, go put a Power Lifter in a wrestling match and see him get decimated in 30 seconds. Wow. You're spinning more than when a soccer player spins to the ground after flopping. Jesus Christ.

Whatever. You're too prideful to admit baseball players are athletic because of the few fatties, so now I'm sticking with the idea that soccer players aren't athletic because a fuckin' midget is the best player of all-time. And another midget is the current top 1 or 2 player in the world.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao Midgetball

http://media.minutemediacdn.com/process?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsportority-prod-ugc.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpost_image%2Fimage%2F149684 1%2Ffile.jpg&filters%5Bresize%5D%5Bw%5D=912&filters%5Bresize%5D%5Bh%5D=516&filters%5Bresize%5D%5Bgravity%5D=Center&filters%5Bquality%5D%5Btarget%5D=80&type=.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hih77Ppvz60/maxresdefault.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CgUfTfzTcmE/maxresdefault.jpg

http://static.sportskeeda.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/rui-gil-soares-de-barros_10-1844638.jpg

[midnightpulp]

FIFY



So, you're a "BBWA certified writers"?:wakeup



Oh, Tim w/ the Bonner garbage time +/- gem :wow

You wanna do a sig bet that Ortiz doesn't win the MVP?

[Kawhitstorm]

Since when IS STRENGTH NOT AN ATHLETIC TRAIT?

Speed/skills > strength, work on your reading comprehension.


And :lmao at Greco-Roman Wrestling and MMA not taking a shit load of skill.

Brute strength & skill are two different things which is my point.:wakeup


Yeah, go put a Power Lifter in a wrestling match and see him get decimated in 30 seconds. Wow. You're spinning more than when a soccer player spins to the ground after flopping. Jesus Christ.

EXACTLY! Just like Maradona would run circles around Ortiz. I knew you would finally come around.:toast

[Kawhitstorm]

You wanna do a sig bet that Ortiz doesn't win the MVP?

Ortiz winning & being an MVP candidate are TWO different things.

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/55726077.jpg

[midnightpulp]

Speed/skills > strength, work on your reading comprehension.

I missed your edit. And lol at including skills when we are talking about ATHLETICISM. Skills have nothing to do with that.

Which athletic trait is more important depends on the sport, you dipshit. Yeah, a wrestler needs to make sure he can run a 4.5 40 and worry about his strength training later :lol

A rugby prop needs to have blazing speed before he needs to have 275lb of bulk.

A shotputter needs to have superior lateral quickness over massive strength.

Strength=speed as a core athletic trait. What is more important depends on the sport, something you don't seem to get.



Brute strength & skill are two different things which is my point.:wakeup


Skill is irrelevant. Again, we're talking about athleticism. You wake-the-fuck-up and stay on topic.



EXACTLY! Just like Maradona would run circles around Ortiz. I knew you would finally come around.:toast

And Ortiz would lift circles around him. What's your point?

[midnightpulp]

Ortiz winning & being an MVP candidate are TWO different things.

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/55726077.jpg

I'll take that as your concession of knowing in your heart (but too proud to admit) that there's no hope in hell of a player who ranks 12th in the definitive advanced metric winning the MVP. That's like Paul Milsap winning the MVP last season. :lol

Do you want to admit error in this case or are you going to keep spinning and citing bloggers?

[Kawhitstorm]

Which athletic trait is more important depends on the sport, you dipshit.

Except in futbol you need to have it all to be world-class without abusing PEDs.


A rugby prop needs to have blazing speed before he needs to have 275lb of bulk.

Except a rugby props are at the bottom of the totem pole & tend to be the least skilled players.


A shotputter needs to have superior lateral quickness over massive strength.

Ashton Eaton struggles at the events that require brute strength such as shot putting but the guy is the Greatest Athlete in the World & it's not even close.


Strength=speed as a core athletic trait. What is more important depends on the sport, something you don't seem to get.

Seems like he works out w/ Ronaldo:

http://www.letsrun.com/photos/2012/olympictrials2/images/Eaton_AshtonWR-OlyTr12.JPg



And Ortiz would lift circles around him. What's your point?

Ortiz would have to catch Maradona first......:wakeup

[Kawhitstorm]

I'll take that as your concession of knowing in your heart (but too proud to admit) that there's no hope in hell of a player who ranks 12th in the definitive advanced metric winning the MVP. That's like Paul Milsap winning the MVP last season. :lol

Do you want to admit error in this case or are you going to keep spinning and citing bloggers?

I'll take this as a concession that you can't find an article by "BBWA certified writers" refuting Ortiz's MVP worthiness.:toast

[midnightpulp]

Except in futbol you need to have it all to be world-class without abusing PEDs.

Doesn't look like it to me. (:lmao any of these skinny fats on the same level of strength as a baseball player):

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z231/Hekko_photo/FranckRibery.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/06/28/article-1290232-0A3A8CAE000005DC-846_224x480.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/26/article-2589501-09E96F09000005DC-911_306x631.jpg

Oh, but "world class" is your personal definition of it.



Except a rugby props are at the bottom of the totem pole & tend to be the least skilled players.

:bang

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT SKILL YOU IDIOT. Fuck. Rugby props are strong as fuck, therefore athletic.


Ashton Eaton struggles at the events that require brute strength such as shot putting but the guy is the Greatest Athlete in the World & it's not even close.

Except he doesn't?

He's a top 10 shotputter (out of 30 entrants). Top 11 discus thrower. And a top 4 Javelin thrower (here's where you spin javelin throwing, when in fact, the two Indians who won that Million Dollar Arm competition were Javelin throwers :lol. Javelin throwing is all about brute arm strength first and then learning technique second). His worst event is the high jump.


Baseball players are athletic. As proven by the average MLB vertical of 28" (2" shy as Ronaldo's, the supposed highest leaper in soccer). The 6 or so MLB players who have ran faster than Walcott. The average 19.5 mph sprint speed. The arm strength that can throw a ball from 90-105mph. The core strength that can drive a baseball 500 feet. And oh yeah, most of these players are 6'2" 225lb on average.

No amount of spinning will change those facts.

http://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/icvah2glzkuki.gif?w=1000

Find me an example of Fagnaldo doing a standing 60" box jump? Oh, that's right, you can't.

Keep :downspin:

[midnightpulp]

I'll take this as a concession that you can't find an article by "BBWA certified writers" refuting Ortiz's MVP worthiness.:toast

There doesn't need to be one since no writer worth his salt would consider a 12th WAR player an MVP candidate.

Yeah, a bunch of "writers" were also pimping Kirby as a potential MVP candidate in 2012/13:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1560411-the-argument-for-kobe-bryant-as-the-nbas-2012-13-mvp

Don't have RPM going back that far, but Kirby ranked 10th in PER. He had zero chance of winning it in 2013. We were already a good 3 or 4 years into the first wave of the advanced stats era by then.

Ortiz has zero chance of winning it this year. And I don't consider a zero chance a "candidate."

[Arcadian]

What a piece of shit article. Fuck the OP for posting it.

He kept using "Duncan was the #1 option" as an argument against him :lol... Yes, he was the #1 option because he was the #1 player in the world for 6-8 years. If Duncan played with Bird, he wouldn't have been "overshadowed" by Bird. Prime Duncan was better than Prime Bird and Prime McHale. He's the greatest forward of all time.

[midnightpulp]

And the killshot:




With that revelation, Marra decided to incorporate baseball techniques into the daily training sessions of his prized pupils of Aston Eaton as they began preparation for the 2015 outdoor track and field season.

Baseball was actually Eaton’s first sport.

Growing up in La Pine – a small town in Central Oregon about 30 miles south of Bend – he played on multiple teams each summer, including travelling all-star squads until he was 14 years old. Eaton was a shortstop, batted lead-off and his forte was stealing bases.

“(Ashton) was just as dominant then as he is now,” Stiles said. “We put him at lead-off, and if he made contact, he was on first. Usually, two pitches later, he was on third after stealing both bags. He would then either steal home or score on a wild pitch. If he got on base, it was like a sure run.”

http://gotracktownusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/ttusa-ashton-brianne-12152014-1684-2-1025x394.jpg

http://gotracktownusa.com/inside_track/2015/01/team-eaton-takes-swing-new-training-concepts/

Just know that the greatest athlete in the world was a baseball player in his formative years and incorporates baseball techniques into his workout. No wonder he smashes all those Euro athletes raised on floptrot :lol

:lmao "He works out with Ronaldo." Yeah, google ain't bringing up nothing, sport.

I think we're done here.

[Kawhitstorm]

Doesn't look like it to me. (:lmao any of these skinny fats on the same level of strength as a baseball player):

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z231/Hekko_photo/FranckRibery.jpg



Looks more buff than this guy:

http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/nate-diaz.jpg



WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT SKILL YOU IDIOT. Fuck. Rugby props are strong as fuck, therefore athletic.

There is no position is futbol where it requires you to be in a scrum so no need for roided up meat heads.:sleep


He's a top 10 shotputter (out of 30 entrants). Top 11 discus thrower.

Which is REALLY BAD compared to his best events. :sleep


And a top 4 Javelin thrower (here's where you spin javelin throwing, when in fact, the two Indians who won that Million Dollar Arm competition were Javelin throwers :lol. Javelin throwing is all about brute arm strength first and then learning technique second).


His weakest events are the throws, and that’s where he has room to blow up his score. His best javelin mark last year was 203 feet in London.


His worst event is the high jump.

It's not his worst event but in any case his struggle in the HJ has nothing to do w/ his athletcism.:lol His technique is mediocre just like LeBron's shooting form.

Look at how he broke the world record despite losing a rediculous 171 pts on the javine throw::lol




Roman Sebrle


Ashton Eaton





Performance
Score
Running Total
Performance
Score
Running Total


100m
10.64
942
942
10.21
1044
1044


LJ
8.11m
1089
2031
8.23m
1120
2164


Shot

15.33m

810
2841
14.20m

741

2905



HJ

2.12m

915
3756
2.05m

850
3755


400m
47.79
919
4675
46.70
973
4728


100mH
13.92
985
5660
13.70
1014
5742


Discus

47.92

827
6487
42.81m

722
6464


PV
4.80m
849
7336
5.30m
1004
7468


Javelin

70.16m

892
8228
58.87m

721
8189


1500m
4:21.98
789
9026
4:14.48
850
9039





Baseball players are athletic. As proven by the average MLB vertical of 28" (2" shy as Ronaldo's, the supposed highest leaper in soccer). The 6 or so MLB players who have ran faster than Walcott. The average 19.5 mph sprint speed. The arm strength that can throw a ball from 90-105mph. The core strength that can drive a baseball 500 feet. And oh yeah, most of these players are 6'2" 225lb on average.

There is no place in futbol's big leagues for meat heads & speed burners if that's their best asset. Just ask Adam Gemili.:toast


http://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/icvah2glzkuki.gif?w=1000

[/QUOTE]

Oh, those good ole draft combine bio metrics that don't translate in an actualy game.:lol

Let's look at the 2011 NBA draft combine results:

-Bench press:


Five Worst

Jereme Richmond (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jereme-Richmond-5208/) 0
Tyler Honeycutt (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tyler-Honeycutt-5247/) 0
E'Twaun Moore 0 (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/E-Twaun-Moore-5289/stats/)
Demetri McCamey (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Demetri-McCamey-5306/) 0
Kawhi Leonard (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kawhi-Leonard-5821/) 3


Lane Agility:


Norris Cole (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Norris-Cole-6234/) 10.07
Andrew Goudelock (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Andrew-Goudelock-6340/) 10.33
Jimmer Fredette (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jimmer-Fredette-5810/) 10.42
Scotty Hopson (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Scotty-Hopson-1323/) 10.47
Isaiah Thomas (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Isaiah-Thomas-5678/) 10.49
Brandon Knight (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brandon-Knight-5140/) 10.74
Marshon Brooks (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marshon-Brooks-6347/) 10.74
Cory Joseph (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Cory-Joseph-5664/) 10.75
David Lighty (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/David-Lighty-1177/) 10.81
Jon Leuer (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jon-Leuer-5854/) 10.82
Kemba Walker (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kemba-Walker-5152/) 10.87

Modified Lane Agility:


Norris Cole (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Norris-Cole-6234/) 5.05
Jimmer Fredette (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jimmer-Fredette-5810/) 5.11
Andrew Goudelock (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Andrew-Goudelock-6340/) 5.13
Brandon Knight (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brandon-Knight-5140/) 5.27
Cory Joseph (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Cory-Joseph-5664/) 5.27
Jon Leuer (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jon-Leuer-5854/) 5.34
Scotty Hopson (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Scotty-Hopson-1323/) 5.34
David Lighty (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/David-Lighty-1177/) 5.35
Marshon Brooks (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marshon-Brooks-6347/) 5.37
Tristan Thompson (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tristan-Thompson-5226/) 5.40

Vertical:
-Dimmer: 33.0
-Kawhi: 32.0

Conclusion: Dimmer is a better athlete than Kawhi.:sleep

[Kawhitstorm]

There doesn't need to be one since no writer worth his salt would consider a 12th WAR player an MVP candidate.

Yeah, a bunch of "writers" were also pimping Kirby as a potential MVP candidate in 2012/13:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1560411-the-argument-for-kobe-bryant-as-the-nbas-2012-13-mvp

Don't have RPM going back that far, but Kirby ranked 10th in PER. He had zero chance of winning it in 2013. We were already a good 3 or 4 years into the first wave of the advanced stats era by then.

Ortiz has zero chance of winning it this year. And I don't consider a zero chance a "candidate."

http://i.makeagif.com/media/8-19-2015/D8sxR1.gif

[Kawhitstorm]

Just know that the greatest athlete in the world was a baseball player in his formative years and incorporates baseball techniques into his workout. No wonder he smashes all those Euro athletes raised on floptrot :lol


That explains his weak arm.:toast

[midnightpulp]

Looks more buff than this guy:

http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/nate-diaz.jpg

:lol No.

http://i.imgur.com/K3WAfTF.png



There is no position is futbol where it requires you to be in a scrum so no need for roided up meat heads.:sleep

Yes, because they're difference sports. And like you need stamina in soccer, you need strength in rugby, and both are as legitimate of athletic traits as one another.


Which is REALLY BAD compared to his best events. :sleep

:lol Quotes. And cherry picks.

He finished top 4 in Javelin (really bad :lmao) and top 10 in shot and top 11 in discus, in the upper third of those two events.



Conclusion: Dimmer is a better athlete than Kawhi.:sleep

Kawhi is not a great athlete. Slow ass first step. Poor vertical. Poor acceleration. And I guess a top 5 worst bench press (he's obviously worked on his core strength, though). Jimmer was a touted as a below average athlete, as well.

Guess why he's a good offensive player now? Because he developed a skill set. A good outside shot thanks to Chip. And a good post game. But Kawhi isn't really torching the lane like Westbrook or Lebron. And on the defensive side, he has the advantage of that freakish wingspan, large hands, and is an intelligent defender on top of that.

Don't know what this proves or your point? What that combine metrics don't translate to being a good basketball player, soccer player, baseball player, etc? Of course they don't, because in most sports, you need a skillset and "IQ" to accompany athleticism. But we're not talking about skills or bballIQ. We're talking about athleticism, and you can save yourself a lot of googling if you just admit baseball players are great athletes. Not that hard.

[midnightpulp]

That explains his weak arm.:toast

The Javelin is the only pure throwing event and he finished 4th in the last World Championships. (My good friend was a shotputter in HS, and I used to try it out for giggles, and if you try to throw it, you're wrecking your elbow. You almost have to "push" it with your body. And the Discus is more about core and hips than arm strength).

Keep spinning.

(Now it seems you're implying baseball players have weak arms :lmao. My God. Just when I thought you couldn't spin any lower, you do.)

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/73955164/v606604783/oaknyy-hicks-unleashes-1055mph-throw-home-for-out

Anyhow, killshot is delivered. Greatest athlete in the world ain't looking to floptrot for inspiration on how to improve, he's looking toward baseball and was a baseball player for the first half of his life :toast

[140]

http://i.makeagif.com/media/8-19-2015/D8sxR1.gif
:lmao mid spinnin so hard

[midnightpulp]

:lmao mid spinnin so hard

Kawhitstorm is doing the spinning, like Dirk trying to hit a baseball :toast

http://giant.gfycat.com/AssuredBronzeAbyssiniangroundhornbill.gif

[ambchang]

Clearly a click bait article written by a Tom Heinsohn level homer, but still, gotta argue this.

Let me be clear that I think McHale is one of the top 5 PF in NBA history. He is in the Dirk/KG/Barkley group, and is in my top five because of this, but on the other hand, he was the only career 2nd banana in the group, and he is not close to Duncan in terms of being the GOAT PF.

There are arguments that Duncan > Bird, and Bird was the alpha on those Celtics teams.

General comments: The author prefaced the article by saying that we can't compare stats directly because of different eras, but then proceeded to list a bunch of stats for some PF as some sort of proof that they are greats. Choose a lane, can you or can't you compare stats across different eras?

Point 1: First and foremost, McHale simply had far more post moves and a better shooting touch
McHale, to me, is the most polished low post scorer in NBA history, but to say that Hakeem was a distant second? I disagree with that. Hakeem is about as good as McHale in terms of low post moves, and was quicker. Duncan is probably third given the variety he had, but I agree that McHale > Duncan in terms of post moves. But so what? Rony Seikaly had more post moves than Shaq, doesn't make Seikaly better than Shaq.

Point 2: Kevin was better in the clutch
Huh? He listed a whole bunch of stats, and listed the year Duncan played on two twisted ankles guarded by the Wallace brothers as proof. In 2003, Duncan put up one of the finest finals ever. Duncan also played a majority of his prime in a grind it out era where scores were routinely in the 70s and 80s, while McHale played in an era where 100 to 110 points were the norm. Duncan simply had better stats in playoffs and finals, traditional or advanced, than McHale. If he wants to go that route, he doesn't even have a case.

Point 3: McHale excelled in an era featuring a plethora of great big men

Hold on, the people he listed that McHale played against:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Bob Lanier
Artis Gilmore
Elvin Hayes
Wes Unseld
Bill Walton
Dan Issel
Patrick Ewing
Moses Malone
Jack Sikma
Alvan Adams
Brad Daugherty
Larry Nance
Bill Laimbeer
Jeff Ruland
Tom Chambers
Buck Williams
Rick Mahorn
Dennis Rodman

It's a clear case where the author thought more = better, but actually ended up hurting his case. Jeff Ruland? Laimbeer? Adams? Sikma? Mahorn? Good players, but ones that you present as evidence that McHale played against an era of great big men? No. It's like listing Bogut, Sanders, Ratliff, Brian Grant, Jefferson, Jermaine O'Neal, and PJ Brown as some sort of proof that Duncan played against some great big men.

And what's with Duncan's list of Garnett, Shaq, Dirk, Gasol and Howard? Then somehow dismissing Howard and Pau? Those two are better than Issel, Lanier, Gilmore, Hayes, Sikma, Adams, Daugherty, Nance, Laimbeer, Ruland, Chambers, Williams, Mahorn and Rodman. if you are listing Lanier, Gilmore, Unseld, Walton, and Issel (way over the hill by the time they played against Duncan's prime), you better list Malone, Hakeem, Ewing for Duncan. What about Webber, Rasheed, Yao? BTW, Shaq was better than anyone McHale faced, other than Hakeem (Jabbar was past his prime by the time they faced off), and speaking of which, why did he not list Hakeem for McHale?

4: McHale was a far better foul shooter and shooter in general
Bill Wennington was a better foul shooter and shooter in general than Wilt Chamberlain, doesn't make Bill better.

5: Kevin was overshadowed on his own team by the greatness of Bird
And it could be argued Duncan > Bird

6: The NBA of the 1980s and early 1990s was much better than the expansion-diluted era Duncan dominated.
The game evolved and got more sophisticated, especially defense, in most of Duncan's prime. Also, foreign players added to the talent pool I believe the league went from 23 to 27 teams during McHale's career. 29 to 30 during Duncan's career. Dilution is much less of a problem in Duncan's time simply because teams can adjust accordingly with much fewer teams added.

7:Duncan's biggest statistical advantage over Kevin is in rebounding
The main points are:
1) Duncan's era got more rebounds - pure bull crap, as Duncan's got way better rebounding percentages or rebounds per 100 possessions than McHale's time. In Duncan's absolute prime (2003), an average team gets 3469 rebounds for the season, in McHale's absolute prime (1986) a team gets 3572 rebounds on average.
2) People box out some times and get no statistical credit - well, I guess McHale is the only one who does this, and Duncan never does.
3) McHale played with other big time rebounders while Duncan didn't - Robinson was a great rebounder, and some very good rebounding wings (like Manu, Kawhi) Besides, he didn't have those other great rebounders boxing out for him so that he can get easy rebounds like McHale could (see point 2). can't have your cake and eat it too

8: McHale was a much more versatile defender
Guess he never saw Duncan defending players from Mark Jackson (PG) to Shaq (C)

9: McHale peak was higher
26.1/9.9/2.6/1.4 and 60% from the field, and buzz for MVP

Duncan in 2003 - 25.5/12.7/3.7/2.5 and 51% from the field, and actually got the MVP.

I didn't even go into advanced stats like /48 and per 100, because Duncan would look even better. I mean, when you have to straight out lie to prove your point, you know you don't even have a point to begin with

10: Kevin was incredibly efficient
So was James Donaldson, Reggie Miller and Tyson Chandler, too bad it doesn't make them the greatest anything

11: Duncan was the focus of the Spur offense for much of his career/Duncan was fortunate to avoid major injury throughout a long career

And Duncan led his team to 5 titles, including 4 as the clear focus of the offense. McHale got 3 as the 2nd banana.

Then he somehow forgot Duncan had a major injury in 2000 that took him out of the playoffs and robbed him with much of his athleticism, or how he had to wear these heavy knee braces for much of his career and had to change the way he ran.

Again, that lie thing.

12: When Duncan faced the few good big men of his time like Kevin Garnett or Shaq, he usually was stymied or outplayed
What? Duncan outscored, outrebounded, out assisted and out blocked Shaq in their h2hs. Duncan had pretty much the same stats as Garnett and had a better record in their H2H. What the hell.

13: People also tend to overrate Duncan slightly because he came across as a nice, quiet guy in a league too often filled with look at me, prima donna superstars
So McHale was an asshole .. oh, but wait, he went on and talked about how he was a great guy and endeared the media. So shouldn't Mchale be even MORE overrated because he was the nicer guy?

14: Duncan also hung around for several seasons well past his peak or even All-Star form

That actually pulls DOWN his average.

15: In 1987, McHale played the entire playoffs on a broken foot and a sprained ankle
Duncan played on two severed sprained ankles in 2005 and won the Finals MVP that year. Thank you very much.

16:McHale was more athletic than the robotic Duncan.
Stromile Swift was more athletic than both of them combined. So?
And so far, we know McHale was more athletic, had better low post skills, and was a better shooter than Duncan, and yet he won less championships as a 2nd banana as Duncan did as the alpha, put up worse stats, traditional or advanced, AND got far less accolades and career achievements than Duncan. Man, McHale is such an underachiever.

17) Duncan did not deserve the 2005 NBA Finals award (Manu did)
Too bad he still won it, was the center of the Spurs offense and defense, and put up great numbers in the series. And even if Duncan did NOT win the 05 Finals MVP, and McHale did win the 86 Finals MVP, it's still 2:1, Duncan. McHale can't even win with a handicap, that tells you how far apart they are.

And were one finals series more pressure packed then the other? Will McHale's family be murdered if he lost? People bring their D games against the Spurs or something? I don't get it.

And Duncan got time off, well, didn't you say earlier Duncan packed more games past his prime to stat pad? Guess what taking time off does to your totals?

18) Kevin's excellent stats were lessened even more by spending half of his career as a sixth man
So he wasn't even good enough to start on his team. Great.

19) Yes, Duncan did win consecutive season MVPS in 2002 and 2003. But if one accepts my argument that the NBA of the 1980s was far, far tougher than the expansion-diluted version of the kate 1990s and early 2000s, then these MVPs aren't as meaningful

A) I don't accept that argument
B) That's still 2 more then McHale got

20) McHale was a superstar on arguably the greatest team in NBA history
If he didn't play for that team, he wouldn't have to fight against those other rebounders (point 7), he can't be as efficient because the defense will be on him all the time (almost every point), and he wouldn't have been the 6th man (point 18). This guy just kept arguing against himself.

21) Injuries and age forced Kevin to retire in 1993, but he still showed how great he could be in his last playoffs far more than Duncan did.
:lol, so we are comparing last games now? I guess Kobe is the best of all time then.

[Kawhitstorm]

:lol No.

http://i.imgur.com/K3WAfTF.png




Looked real ripped when he was bashing in Conor who called him Mr. Skinny-Fat::lol

http://media.ufc.tv/196/GettyImages-513787730.jpg


Yes, because they're difference sports. And like you need stamina in soccer, you need strength in rugby, and both are as legitimate of athletic traits as one another.

Except Ortiz would get his face bashed in by the props & run circles around by footballers.:lol


Kawhi is not a great athlete. Slow ass first step. Poor vertical. Poor acceleration. And I guess a top 5 worst bench press (he's obviously worked on his core strength, though). Jimmer was a touted as a below average athlete, as well.

Mr. Below-average-athlete Dimmer tested out to be more agile than CoJo who was drafted in large part because of his athleticism. So, I guess you mean to tell me the stupid draft combine biometrics aren't exactly the best indicators of one's athletic abilities.:lol

Kawhi struggling to drive early in his career had to do w/ him playing PF in college & lacking ball handling skills but dude was somehow rated the weakest wing player in the draft despite not having trouble against college PFs.:lol



Ranking
Prospect


1
Isaiah Thomas (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Isaiah-Thomas-5678/)


2
Iman Shumpert (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Iman-Shumpert-5156/)


3
Andrew Goudelock:lol (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Andrew-Goudelock-6340/)


4
Norris Cole (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Norris-Cole-6234/)


5
Brandon Knight (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brandon-Knight-5140/)


6
Marshon Brooks (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marshon-Brooks-6347/)


7
Travis Leslie (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Travis-Leslie-5836/)


8
Jimmy Butler (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jimmy-Butler-6315/)


9
Scotty Hopson (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Scotty-Hopson-1323/)


10
Shelvin Mack (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shelvin-Mack-5858/)


11
Tobias Harris:lol (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tobias-Harris-5740/)


12
Jimmer Fredette:lol (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jimmer-Fredette-5810/)


13
Kemba Walker (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kemba-Walker-5152/)


14
JaJuan Johnson (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/JaJuan-Johnson-5307/)


15
Chris Singleton (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Chris-Singleton-1342/)


16
Malcolm Lee (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Malcolm-Lee-1355/)


17
Derrick Williams (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Derrick-Williams-5811/)





40
Kyle Singler:lol (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kyle-Singler-1071/)


41
Kawhi Leonard:rolleyes (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kawhi-Leonard-5821/)



So according to the draft combines Andrew Goudelock was the 3rd best athlete in the draft but dude is out of the league despite being a knockdown shooter b/c he can't handle NBA athletes ala Dimmer.:lol

79Fh57XWUcs


Don't know what this proves or your point? What that combine metrics don't translate to being a good basketball player, soccer player, baseball player, etc? Of course they don't, because in most sports, you need a skillset and "IQ" to accompany athleticism. But we're not talking about skills or bballIQ. We're talking about athleticism, and you can save yourself a lot of googling if you just admit baseball players are great athletes. Not that hard.

Derrick Williams got drafted #2 b/c of his athleticim which has NOTHING to do w/ bball IQ but based on the combine results Dimmer was rated a better athlete.:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

The Javelin is the only pure throwing event and he finished 4th in the last World Championships.

Ashton's PR: 66m

Female equivalent:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/20150527_Huihui_Lu_5288.jpg/681px-20150527_Huihui_Lu_5288.jpg

Dat Beisbol training::wow

[midnightpulp]

Looked real ripped when he was bashing in Conor who called him Mr. Skinny-Fat::lol

Getting it now. Physique doesn't translate into athleticism, skill, etc.


Except Ortiz would get his face bashed in by the props & run circles around by footballers.:lol

It doesn't do an MLB power hitter any good to be built like a prop (Prince Fielder is still probably undersized for a prop position) or built like a 160lb soccer player. Ortiz has a good size/weight/strength for what his position demands.

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/david-ortiz-of-the-boston-red-sox-arrives-for-a-team-workout-on-22-picture-id511698162



snip

Why are you talking about combine metrics anyhow? The examples I post of the athleticism from baseball and soccer players are usually in game metrics.

And combine metrics are still a good indicator of athletic potential, despite the exceptions. Cherry picking a few examples of poorly rated athletes at the combine who turned out to be good in game athletes doesn't change that fact. One of your weaker spins.

Just admit baseball players are athletic, some of the most athletic people in all of team sports actually (size, speed, strength, leaping ability, arm strength, core strength, etc) and we can move on.

[midnightpulp]

Ashton's PR: 66m

Female equivalent:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/20150527_Huihui_Lu_5288.jpg/681px-20150527_Huihui_Lu_5288.jpg

Dat Beisbol training::wow

:lol Another one of your weaker spins.

Are you really going to compare a specialist to a decathlete?

If so, female better in the 1500 by 24 seconds:

http://i.azcentral.com/i/4/a/4/L169_CIFR630454b060b9e904d9d0599ce9b564a4.jpg

Why don't you use a comparison that makes sense?

Female equivalent:

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/jessicaennis-364996.jpg

PB Javelin: 48.33m

Det baseball training paying off. Ashton is by far the best athlete in the world :toast

[LkrFan]

Exactly the same thing. Kirby is 1-3 vs. Nash and Dirk.

Or maybe don't be an idiot and use head-to-head matchups as proof of anything?

Until basketball becomes a 1-on-1 game, head-to-head is meaningless in player comparison.

How about this?

8>12 :toast

"When both teams played each other in the playoffs, and both players played, Kobe: 4, Jim: 2."

-- LkrFan :toast

"Team sports" matters when it's 4>3, or 4=4, or 5>4, or 5=5, but not H2H? Got it. :tu

[Kawhitstorm]

Why don't you use a comparison that makes sense?

Female equivalent:

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/jessicaennis-364996.jpg

PB Javelin: 48.33m



Women's WR: 72m
Jessica's PR: 48m
Difference: 24m

Men's WR: 98m
Aston's PR: 66m
Difference: 32m

Dat Beisbol arm:lmao

[140]

Women's WR: 72m
Jessica's PR: 48m
Difference: 24m

Men's WR: 98m
Aston's PR: 66m
Difference: 32m

Dat Beisbol arm:lmao
:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

Getting it now. Physique doesn't translate into athleticism, skill, etc.

Those fat gain programs are churning out elite athletes.:toast



http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/david-ortiz-of-the-boston-red-sox-arrives-for-a-team-workout-on-22-picture-id511698162



Getting called out by a pitcher who stood his ground::lmao

bTpAD2oIli0

[midnightpulp]

Women's WR: 72m
Jessica's PR: 48m
Difference: 24m

Men's WR: 98m
Aston's PR: 66m
Difference: 32m

Dat Beisbol arm:lmao

Ashton's PB in the 1500: 4:14
World Record 1500: 3:26

=36% difference

Asthon's PB in the Jav: 66m
World Record in the Jav: 98m

=31% difference

So Ashton's baseball training has gotten him closer to the Jav WR than his "soccer style stamina" training has gotten him closer to the 1500m WR :lmao

Baseball wins again :toast

And don't bring up sprinting. Asthon was a leadoff hitter and terror on the basepaths, stealing bases and turning doubles into triples, so he learned his sprinting acumen playing baseball :hat

:lol You just can't keep losing to me.

[Kawhitstorm]

Ashton's PB in the 1500: 4:14
World Record 1500: 3:26

=36% difference

Asthon's PB in the Jav: 66m
World Record in the Jav: 98m

=31% difference

So Ashton's baseball training has gotten him closer to the Jav WR than his "soccer style stamina" training has gotten him closer to the 1500m WR :lmao


Dumbass, it's physiologically impossible to be the best sprinter among decathletes & be any where close to the 1500 WR. Meanwhile, sprinters do a LOT of weight training thus he should have a strong arm but alas......he grew up playing besibol.:cry (Must have been a pinch runner)

[midnightpulp]

Dumbass, it's physiologically impossible to be the best sprinter among decathletes & be any where close to the 1500 WR. Meanwhile, sprinters do a LOT of weight training thus he should have a strong arm but alas......he grew up playing besibol.:cry (Must have been a pinch runner)

:downspin:

Take the L, bro.

[Kawhitstorm]

I'll take L, bro.

FIFY

[midnightpulp]

FIFY

You're dumb. Some people don't have naturally strong arms. And no amount of weight training can turn a 75mph natural thrower into a 95mph.

Weak-armed baseball players in the MLB are usually 2nd basemen, 1st basemen, and sometimes shortstops.

[Kawhitstorm]

I'm MAD:bang

FIFY


Some people don't have naturally strong arms. And no amount of weight training can turn a 75mph natural thrower into a 95mph.

But....but..but..he grew up training like a besibol player, it helped him tremendously to develop his arm strength.:cry

[midnightpulp]

FIFY



But....but..but..he grew up training like a besibol player, it helped him tremendously to develop his arm strength.:cry

It no doubt helped.

Imagine what his arm strength would look like if he grew up only playing floppytrot. Probably like Carl Lewis's, the GOAT 20th Century Olympian :lol

http://i.imgur.com/gUcKeOf.gif

Anyhow, I think you're mad, bro.

I got Ashton. I got Jordan, Steph. I got the best sprint speeds, verts. Got MLB players dunking like men and you got Ronaldo dunking on an 8 foot goal.

This shit is ova.

[Kawhitstorm]

I got the best sprint speeds
:lmao

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/ronaldo-and-bolt.jpg


Forbes' list of world's highest-paid athletes



Rank
Name
Sport


1
Cristiano Ronaldo
Football


2
Lionel Messi
Football


3
LeBron James
Basketball


4
Roger Federer
Tennis


:bobo

[midnightpulp]

:lmao

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/ronaldo-and-bolt.jpg


Forbes' list of world's highest-paid athletes



Rank
Name
Sport


1
Cristiano Ronaldo
Football


2
Lionel Messi
Football


3
LeBron James
Basketball


4
Roger Federer
Tennis


:bobo

Vs. soccer players?

Indeed I do.

Deflecting to highest paid athletes now because baseball players are proven to be more athletic :lol


Hamilton has less distance to accelerate and reaches a much higher speed. He reaches 23.3 mph, which is more than 34 feet per second

:wow and that's over about 70 feet wearing a clunky helmet.

You don't reach top until about 60 meters.

Indeed :toast

[Kawhitstorm]

:wow and that's over about 70 feet wearing a clunky helmet.

Scrub doing scrub activities for scrub salaries.:sleep

[midnightpulp]

Scrub doing scrub activities for scrub salaries.:sleep

He's a starter quality batter and a solid defender with an above average DWAR.