Is fatball aka baseball the least strategically and tactically demanding sport ever?

[apalisoc_9]

Can't think of any other sport that just inovles being fat and having strong arms.

Why do they even need coaches?

[midnightpulp]

Nope.

/thread

[Robz4000]

Does that mean I can be a soccer star by having decent acting skills and an ability to kick a ball?

[TheGreatYacht]

757389884214476800


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf9P_BC-ntg&feature=share

[Splits]

There's tons of strategy and coaching

:lol pinch-running for the fat guys
:lol sacrifice bunting
:lol pinch sacrifice bunting
:lol the righty-lefty switch to gain minuscule advantage
:lol relief pitchers facing 1 batter every few nights, gets paid a million $
:lol "setup" relief pitchers facing 3 batters every few nights, gets paid multi-million $s
:lol base coaches to tell a player to stop or go, wrong 1/2 the time
:lol base coaches wearing helmets
:lol should allow base coach at 2nd since these cretins can't figure out to run or stop
:lol managers wearing the outfit
:lol strategy: budweiser or miller lite?
:lol strategy: drumstick or thigh?
:lol strategy: marlboro or camel?

[Clipper Nation]

Spoken like someone who's never watched baseball. There's strategy involved in defensive positioning, pitch selection, pitching changes, and baserunning. Because the NL doesn't have the designated hitter, managers in that league also have to strategize around the pitcher in the lineup (for instance, the double switch).

[Splits]

:lol pitch counts
:lol starting pitchers can only play 6 times in an entire month
:lol no complete games anymore
:lol today's MLB

[offset formation]

I bet you could not touch the ball with a bat in 1000 tries off a major league pitcher, hell, you couldn't touch the ball I threw. Let alone make meaningful contact. You are trying to troll and I know that, but I just want you to know that your troll attempt only highlights how gd stupid you are. Please perform seppuku.

[djohn2oo8]

I bet you could not touch the ball with a bat in 1000 tries off a major league pitcher, hell, you couldn't touch the ball I threw. Let alone make meaningful contact. You are trying to troll and I know that, but I just want you to know that your troll attempt only highlights how gd stupid you are. Please perform seppuku.
This.

[djohn2oo8]

Baseball has more strategy than soccer...That's for damn sure.

[djohn2oo8]

Clipper Nation I don't think OP has ever picked up a bat.

[offset formation]

There's tons of strategy and coaching

:lol pinch-running for the fat guys
:lol sacrifice bunting
:lol pinch sacrifice bunting
:lol the righty-lefty switch to gain minuscule advantage
:lol relief pitchers facing 1 batter every few nights, gets paid a million $
:lol "setup" relief pitchers facing 3 batters every few nights, gets paid multi-million $s
:lol base coaches to tell a player to stop or go, wrong 1/2 the time
:lol base coaches wearing helmets
:lol should allow base coach at 2nd since these cretins can't figure out to run or stop
:lol managers wearing the outfit
:lol strategy: budweiser or miller lite?
:lol strategy: drumstick or thigh?
:lol strategy: marlboro or camel?

Yeah, occasionally a bench coach dies because a line drive cracks their skull. So, a helmet is mandated.

No active players smoke anymore.

Coaches tell players to stop or go because humans haven't developed eyes in the back of their heads. Decisions have to be made in a split second.

The ability to hit a major league fastball was rated as the hardest thing to do in all of professional sports.

[Splits]

I bet you could not touch the ball with a bat in 1000 tries off a major league pitcher, hell, you couldn't touch the ball I threw. Let alone make meaningful contact. You are trying to troll and I know that, but I just want you to know that your troll attempt only highlights how gd stupid you are. Please perform seppuku.

I bet you could not score 1-1 in 1000 tries against any professional basketball player
I bet you could not stop a penalty kick in 1000 tries against any professional football player
I bet you could not catch an in-game slant in 1000 tries thrown by any professional quarterback

[djohn2oo8]

I bet you could not score 1-1 in 1000 tries against any professional basketball player
I bet you could not stop a penalty kick in 1000 tries against any professional football player
I bet you could not catch an in-game slant in 1000 tries thrown by any professional quarterback





Home (http://www.efastball.com/) › Grips (http://www.efastball.com/baseball/pitching/grips/) › Average Reaction Time for Different Baseball Pitches by Age Group and Mound Distance



Reaction Time (in seconds) for Baseball Pitches by Speed and Distance


Related

Equivalent Baseball Pitch Speeds (http://www.efastball.com/baseball/pitching/equivalent-baseball-pitch-speeds-conversion-chart/)

Updates

8/14/2008 account for speed reduction from mound to plate


Hitters have roughly 0.40 seconds reaction time (typically) to:

determine the type of pitch
determine if it's a strike or a ball
determine the speed of the pitched ball
finish the stride and get their foot down
get the bat to the ball






Nothing tops that

[Splits]

Yeah, occasionally a bench coach dies because a line drive cracks their skull. So, a helmet is mandated.
Link to any base coach that has died? Why doesn't the pitcher wear one, they get hit more often than base coaches?



No active players smoke anymore.

688579760834752512




Coaches tell players to stop or go because humans haven't developed eyes in the back of their heads. Decisions have to be made in a split second.

So I guess basketball should allow coaches under the rim so they can instruct players what's behind them



The ability to hit a major league fastball was rated as the hardest thing to do in all of professional sports.

I'll grant you this at the pro level. Though at 12 years old I was hitting out of the 80mph cages.

[Silver&Black]

I bet you could not score 1-1 in 1000 tries against any professional basketball player
I bet you could not stop a penalty kick in 1000 tries against any professional football player
I bet you could not catch an in-game slant in 1000 tries thrown by any professional quarterback

I could stop a penalty kick in 1000 tries, tbh.

:lol I get 1,000 times to guess left or right
:lol I'll eventually guess right

Even if I guess wrong all 1,000 times....there is still a good chance he'll miss one on his own :lmao


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M2vTBVGnjY

[ElNono]

I could stop a penalty kick in 1000 tries, tbh.

:lol I get 1,000 times to guess left or right
:lol I'll eventually guess right

Even if I guess wrong all 1,000 times....there is still a good chance he'll miss one on his own :lmao


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M2vTBVGnjY

Missi is an outlier tho... he missis a lot of them, tbh :lol

[140]

Missi is an outlier tho... he missis a lot of them, tbh :lol
:lol

[poeticism707]

There's tons of strategy and coaching

:lol pinch-running for the fat guys
:lol sacrifice bunting
:lol pinch sacrifice bunting
:lol the righty-lefty switch to gain minuscule advantage
:lol relief pitchers facing 1 batter every few nights, gets paid a million $
:lol "setup" relief pitchers facing 3 batters every few nights, gets paid multi-million $s
:lol base coaches to tell a player to stop or go, wrong 1/2 the time
:lol base coaches wearing helmets
:lol should allow base coach at 2nd since these cretins can't figure out to run or stop
:lol managers wearing the outfit
:lol strategy: budweiser or miller lite?
:lol strategy: drumstick or thigh?
:lol strategy: marlboro or camel?

:rollin :rollin :rollin

[Kawhitstorm]

Nope.

/thread

I agree, it takes a lot of creativity to keep themselves entertained for 162 games when they are starting idle for 3.5 hours.:toast

[Splits]

Home (http://www.efastball.com/) › Grips (http://www.efastball.com/baseball/pitching/grips/) › Average Reaction Time for Different Baseball Pitches by Age Group and Mound Distance



Reaction Time (in seconds) for Baseball Pitches by Speed and Distance


Related

Equivalent Baseball Pitch Speeds (http://www.efastball.com/baseball/pitching/equivalent-baseball-pitch-speeds-conversion-chart/)

Updates

8/14/2008 account for speed reduction from mound to plate


Hitters have roughly 0.40 seconds reaction time (typically) to:

determine the type of pitch
determine if it's a strike or a ball
determine the speed of the pitched ball
finish the stride and get their foot down
get the bat to the ball






Nothing tops that

Yeah, so difficult an 11yr old can do it.

[140]

There's tons of strategy and coaching

:lol pinch-running for the fat guys
:lol sacrifice bunting
:lol pinch sacrifice bunting
:lol the righty-lefty switch to gain minuscule advantage
:lol relief pitchers facing 1 batter every few nights, gets paid a million $
:lol "setup" relief pitchers facing 3 batters every few nights, gets paid multi-million $s
:lol base coaches to tell a player to stop or go, wrong 1/2 the time
:lol base coaches wearing helmets
:lol should allow base coach at 2nd since these cretins can't figure out to run or stop
:lol managers wearing the outfit
:lol strategy: budweiser or miller lite?
:lol strategy: drumstick or thigh?
:lol strategy: marlboro or camel?
:lmao:lmao:lmao

[midnightpulp]

This could actually be an interesting thread that spurs discussion about the strategic and tactical differences between each sport.

To start off, I know far more than the soccer crew about basketball, football, and baseball collectively, most of whom are foreigners and came into basketball probably during the Jordan or when a Euro from their country was drafted to an NBA team. I played all 3 sports at the high school level, and am obviously a sports nerd about this shit. I won't attempt to dissect soccer, because I don't talk out of my ass about things I don't really know about unlike the soccer crew who thinks they can actually analyze baseball when they never even threw a ball.

First, let's start off by defining the differences between tactics and strategy:

Strategy: A long term plan designed to achieve an overall goal.

What falls under strategy for sports is roster building, gameplanning in advance for specific teams, gameplanning for the season.

Tactics: Small actions performed as a part of the strategic whole.

Ex. Spurs want to employ a low-post strategy against a team, the "tactic" in to feed the ball to Duncan in the post.

That said, here's how I rate them (warning, going to be a long, nerdy write).

Strategy:

1. American Football

600 page playbooks that have to be known inside and out by personnel. Roster building is a challenge since you have to build 4 effective individual units (Offensive, Defense, Special Teams Offense, Special Teams Defense) that comprise 55 players. And given the high injury rate in the game, you best have a serviceable backup at every position. NFL coaches and players will spend anywhere from 30 to 80 hours (in the case of coaches) per week in the film room and then try to figure out what the opposing coach and team might be studying about them and then develop a comprehensive gameplan. The "chess match" begins before teams even take the field.

2. Baseball

Arguably the most complex roster building challenge of any major sport. The draft is pretty much meaningless as a way to acquire top tier talent. You can't just tank for Lebron or Peyton, sign him, and enjoy a decade of success. After you draft a player, you need a legion of scouts and coaches throughout the 4 minor league levels before the MLB to develop talent into legitimate prospects. You have to balance your roster with left and right handed batting and left and right handed pitching (no other sport requires a balance of this kind). And just like the NFL, the injury rate, especially for pitchers, is sky high, so you best have backups and a line of prospects to fill those slots if a player gets injured or slumps. And since every ball park is unique, you have to build your team in a way that it can best excel at home. The Kansas City Royals pulled this off brilliantly.

Gameday and season long strategy requires pitchers and batters to constantly study each other, requiring a great deal of film study. Batters will sometimes go back years to recall what a particular pitcher threw them during an 1-1 count in the 4th inning:


Cabrera, who can remember pitch patterns from at-bats a half-decade ago, says he studies video only to understand certain tendencies—what pitchers throw when they get two strikes on a hitter, what their favorite first pitch is, what they throw with a man on first, or when they are ahead in the count.

That allows him to recognize a pitch as soon as it leaves a pitcher's hand. McClendon said

(No, soccer crew, it isn't one guy throwing hard and another guy swinging hard).

And pitchers are doing the same study of hitters and tailoring their strategy based on that information. A pitcher/batter confrontation is very much a like a mini-chess match. Sure, like in all sports, you can win matchups through athleticism, but there's a shitload of study that goes into this.

And all this is backed by the most advanced statistical analyses in modern sports that inform when to shift, where to shift, when to hit-and-run, when to intentional walk, when to waste a pitch, etc, etc.

http://lovelace-media.imgix.net/uploads/685/5532acb0-93a8-0132-442a-0ebc4eccb42f.png?


3. Basketball :lmao

I love basketball, but roster building is simplistic video game shit. Sign elite star=make playoffs. That's basically the entire formula if you want to build a playoff team. Sure, roster building becomes more complex if you want to build a title contending team, but the essential NBA formula remains the same: Teams with the best player in the league have an enviable foundation to work with that gives them a great chance of building a contender. Meanwhile, the best player in baseball is on the worst team in the league. And in the NFL, a QB can't play both sides of the ball. It logically makes sense. There's only 5 guys on the court for your team at any given time, so the game will naturally be controlled by great individual players. Yeah, we get some additional "complexity" with having to build a great bench or fill out the core with compatible role players, but it's a much easier task than what you have to do in the other two sports. Advanced basketball stats, as much as we love them here, are in the stone age compared to the Library of Congress level depth of stats that exist in baseball. NFL is admittedly behind the curve in this regard, though.

Gameplanning. Basketball has a very overrated "gameplanning" dynamic. Sure, there's a lot of plays you can run, but basketball is a sport where skill, execution and athleticism often win out over strategy. We saw the Spurs win 4 titles with a very predictable offensive scheme: 4 down. The other team knew it was coming every time down and they couldn't stop it, because Duncan was just that good. 3 peat Lakers won on the back of forcefeeding Shaq and using Kobe as buffer player to protect Shaq from doubles. The so-called "complex" Triangle wasn't even used all that much on those teams, especially with Kobe's desire to forego the Triangle and free-lance. Every team knew it was coming, and they couldn't stop it. Golden State basically uses the pick-and-roll and not much else. Teams know it's coming, but they can't stop it. And if teams try to congest the pick-and-roll by collapsing or over playing passing lanes, GS has shooters as the "buffer" option.

Even Pop admitted how overrated strategy is. "I don't even watch film of other teams. We know what they're going to do. They know what we're going to do. I'm worried about doing what we do the best (i.e. execution)."

5 and 5 basketball has a very binary strategic dynamic. Take away the lane or take away the jumpshot? And teams have to figure out how to best balance one and the other. Again, the fact basketball is only 5 on 5 can give it only so much strategic "depth." It's a sport where players impose their will through skill and athleticism.

Have to go now, feel free to comment, and when I get back, I'll talk about the tactics of each sport.

[Leetonidas]

There's tons of strategy and coaching

:lol pinch-running for the fat guys
:lol sacrifice bunting
:lol pinch sacrifice bunting
:lol the righty-lefty switch to gain minuscule advantage
:lol relief pitchers facing 1 batter every few nights, gets paid a million $
:lol "setup" relief pitchers facing 3 batters every few nights, gets paid multi-million $s
:lol base coaches to tell a player to stop or go, wrong 1/2 the time
:lol base coaches wearing helmets
:lol should allow base coach at 2nd since these cretins can't figure out to run or stop
:lol managers wearing the outfit
:lol strategy: budweiser or miller lite?
:lol strategy: drumstick or thigh?
:lol strategy: marlboro or camel?

:lmao

[Arcadian]

This again? Guys, what the fuck? I know it's the offseason, but the NBA forum has become the "shit on other sports" forum apparently...

[Stalin]

There's tons of strategy and coaching

:lol pinch-running for the fat guys
:lol sacrifice bunting
:lol pinch sacrifice bunting
:lol the righty-lefty switch to gain minuscule advantage
:lol relief pitchers facing 1 batter every few nights, gets paid a million $
:lol "setup" relief pitchers facing 3 batters every few nights, gets paid multi-million $s
:lol base coaches to tell a player to stop or go, wrong 1/2 the time
:lol base coaches wearing helmets
:lol should allow base coach at 2nd since these cretins can't figure out to run or stop
:lol managers wearing the outfit
:lol strategy: budweiser or miller lite?
:lol strategy: drumstick or thigh?
:lol strategy: marlboro or camel?



:lmao:lmao

[apalisoc_9]

Baseball has more strategy than soccer...That's for damn sure.

Yeah you're full of shit.

Soccer is the most diverse sport in terms of tactics and strategy.

[DAF86]

I bet you could not touch the ball with a bat in 1000 tries off a major league pitcher, hell, you couldn't touch the ball I threw. Let alone make meaningful contact. You are trying to troll and I know that, but I just want you to know that your troll attempt only highlights how gd stupid you are. Please perform seppuku.

The fuck does any of that have to do with baseball involving kindergarten level strategy?

P/S: I could probably get on base a couple times without even swinging, tbh.

[midnightpulp]

Yeah you're full of shit.

Soccer is the most diverse sport in terms of tactics and strategy.

That can be easily quantified with relative roster sizes. A simple formula is that the more players involved on your team, the more strategic demands there are. Baseball rosters are 25 deep, just like in the EPL, but in soccer, you can only use 11 men at a time and only 3 subs, meaning a max of 14 players. In baseball, you sometimes have to use 20 players in the actual game (not in something like a shootout).

Also, does a soccer roster need a balance between left and right handed players? (you'll say no, but say they need to be different sizes and speeds. Same applies to baseball). Does a soccer team have to consider the relative difference of field dimensions in their division and league? What's the injury in rate in soccer? Any baseball team that wants to make a run will have about 10-15 prospects ready to be called up if there's an injury to key player. Prospects they need to keep a close eye on all throughout the season to ensure they're developing and can contribute at the moment they're called up.

Also more game played=equals more strategic demands. Baseball played 162 games plus playoffs. What is soccer's advanced stats library like?

I never get when soccer fans talk up the strategy of soccer when they constantly accuse American football or something of being "too strategic and controlled by coaches" versus soccer which is "improvisational" and "creative."

An improvised move can't be a strategy by definition, since strategies are "pre-planned." I see soccer a lot like I see basketball. Coaches lay out a general gameplan and strategy that will be effective against a specific team (i.e. a brute force attack scheme against a grind-it-out Bus parking team), practice the tactics in question (i.e. a lot of side-to-side passing to spread out the Bus parking defense to create gaps for fast breaking players to maybe get into position for a cross) and then leave it to the players to execute.

I think soccer fans overrate the strategy in soccer because it's the only sport they're really familiar with and then they might get into something like basketball (which is the most popular American sport worldwide), see it's shallow depth and then think all American sports are like that or something.

[DAF86]

Baseball has more strategy than soccer...That's for damn sure.

:lmao

[midnightpulp]

The fuck does any of that have to do with baseball involving kindergarten level strategy?

P/S: I could probably get on base a couple times without even swinging, tbh.

You're so fuckin' stupid. Congrats. You baited me. But try not to talk shit about something you only have a "I watched baseball on ESPN for 5 minutes, so I know it all" understanding of.

:lmao I could get on base a couple of times without swinging

The soccer crew actually believes this.

[DAF86]

That can be easily quantified with relative roster sizes. A simple formula is that the more players involved on your team, the more strategic demands there are. Baseball rosters are 25 deep, just like in the EPL, but in soccer, you can only use 11 men at a time and only 3 subs, meaning a max of 14 players. In baseball, you sometimes have to use 20 players in the actual game (not in something like a shootout).

Also, does a soccer roster need a balance between left and right handed players? (you'll say no, but say they need to be different sizes and speeds. Same applies to baseball). Does a soccer team have to consider the relative difference of field dimensions in their division and league? What's the injury in rate in soccer? Any baseball team that wants to make a run will have about 10-15 prospects ready to be called up if there's an injury to key player. Prospects they need to keep a close eye on all throughout the season to ensure they're developing and can contribute at the moment they're called up.

Also more game played=equals more strategic demands. Baseball played 162 games plus playoffs. What is soccer's advanced stats library like?

I never get when soccer fans talk up the strategy of soccer when they constantly accuse American football or something of being "too strategic and controlled by coaches" versus soccer which is "improvisational" and "creative."

An improvised move can't be a strategy by definition, since strategies are "pre-planned." I see soccer a lot like I see basketball. Coaches lay out a general gameplan and strategy that will be effective against a specific team (i.e. a brute force attack scheme against a grind-it-out Bus parking team), practice the tactics in question (i.e. a lot of side-to-side passing to spread out the Bus parking defense to create gaps for fast breaking players to maybe get into position for a cross) and then leave it to the players to execute.

I think soccer fans overrate the strategy in soccer because it's the only sport they're really familiar with and then they might get into something like basketball (which is the most popular American sport worldwide), see it's shallow depth and then think all American sports are like that or something.

Of course you need a balance between righties and lefties in soccer son. See? This is why nobody pays attention to your soccer posts. You trully have no idea whatsoever about the sport and it shows.

Didn't even mind reading beyond that part. I had to answer that first. I might have to come back at this post after finishing reading it, tbh.

[midnightpulp]

Of course you need a balance between righties and lefties in soccer son. See? This is why nobody pays attention to your soccer posts. You trully have no idea whatsoever about the sport.

Didn't even mind reading beyond that part. I had to answer that first. I might have to come back at this poat after finishing reading it, tbh.

Show me a breakdown of soccer rosters illustrating this balance? Show me an in depth analysis of how to best balance these right and left-handed players on the roster and how they can potentially matchup with other squads? Show me the statistical break down of how a left handed soccer player does against a right handed goalie, defender, midfielder, etc? Or vice versa?

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/teams-ongoing-quest-to-gain-platoon-advantage-takes-a-left-turn/#31ifQ2TecI44dA2g.97

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/judging-the-royals/article317931/The-difference-between-right-and-left-handed-hitters.html

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/reasons-why-right-handed-power-has-become-rare-120314

http://www.hardballtimes.com/images/uploads/herrera_cutters_both.jpg

https://fastballs.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/herrera_avg_pitch_trajectories_both_boxes.jpg

Show me similar breakdowns in kickball of how the dynamics change when a left footer kicks the ball or attacks compared to a right footer? Show me the breakdown of how having a certain balance of left/right translates into wins?

:lmao Even trying to compare kickball in this instance to baseball.

Soccer crew never fails to amaze.

Just stick to calling baseball boring (you can't even use the fatball description anymore, since I blew that shit up). Your lot doesn't know jack shit about the game beyond Bartolo Colon memes.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/627796/Untitled-1_medium.jpg

[DAF86]

You're so fuckin' stupid. Congrats. You baited me. But try not to talk shit about something you only have a "I watched baseball on ESPN for 5 minutes, so I know it all" understanding of.

:lmao I could get on base a couple of times without swinging

The soccer crew actually believes this.

A guy that pitches in the best argie baseball league (amateur level but still) once said that many times pitchers can't throw strikes to save their lives and that in those cases an entire lineup of batters wouldn't swing, a third of that lineup would still get on base.

[BD24]

A guy that pitches in the best argie baseball league (amateur level but still) once said that many times pitchers can't throw strikes to save their lives and that in those cases an entire lineup of batters wouldn't swing, a third of that lineup would still get on base.
And that is some shitbag playing in an Argie league dumb ass. Not an MLB player.
I think baseball and soccer are both boring as shit tbh. But you soccer fans take dumb assery to another level.

[DAF86]

Show me a breakdown of soccer rosters illustrating this balance? Show me an in depth analysis of how to best balance these right and left-handed players on the roster and how they can potentially matchup with other squads? Show me the statistical break down of how a left handed soccer player does against a right handed goalie, defender, midfielder, etc? Or vice versa?

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/teams-ongoing-quest-to-gain-platoon-advantage-takes-a-left-turn/#31ifQ2TecI44dA2g.97

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/judging-the-royals/article317931/The-difference-between-right-and-left-handed-hitters.html

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/reasons-why-right-handed-power-has-become-rare-120314

http://www.hardballtimes.com/images/uploads/herrera_cutters_both.jpg

https://fastballs.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/herrera_avg_pitch_trajectories_both_boxes.jpg

Show me similar breakdowns in kickball of how the dynamics change when a left footer kicks the ball or attacks compared to a right footer? Show me the breakdown of how having a certain balance of left/right translates into wins?

:lmao Even trying to compare kickball in this instance to baseball.

Soccer crew never fails to amaze.

Just stick to calling baseball boring (you can't use the fatball description anymore, since I blew that shit up). Your lot doesn't know jack shit about the game beyond Bartolo Colon memes.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/627796/Untitled-1_medium.jpg

Don't feel like searching but there's tons of these kind of shits on soccer son. Do you really think these kind of breakdowns are exclusive for a sport as limited as baseball? :lol

But it's not as complicated to realize why soccer needs to have a R/L balance. You have right backs and left backs. right center back and left center back. Left winger and right winger. Left midfielder and right midfielder. Do you think is the same if either a righty or a lefty plays any of those positions? Do you think a rigthy sending a cross from the left would be as effective as a lefty?

[DAF86]

And that is some shitbag playing in an Argie league dumb ass. Not an MLB player.
I think baseball and soccer are both boring as shit tbh. But you soccer fans take dumb assery to another level.

Same shit happens on all levels. How many times have you seen guys out of control walking batters left and right in the MLB?

[midnightpulp]

A guy that pitches in the best argie baseball league (amateur level but still) once said that many times pitchers can't throw strikes to save their lives and that in those cases an entire lineup of batters wouldn't swing, a third of that lineup would still get on base.

:lmao

That also proves how hard baseball is. The fact that the best Argies can't throw strikes consistently.

But MLB pitchers can pretty much throw a strike every time down at 90mph. The only reason there is balls at times is because it would suicide to just throw 90mph fastballs straight down the middle to a major league hitter. You're not a major league hitter, and a 75 mph lob would be enough to strike you out. Also, another misconception the soccer crew has is that you can track pitchers all the way to the plate. Nope. The eye/brain can't track the last 10 or so feet of a 90+mph fastball, and factoring reaction times, you have to judge the pitch and its trajectory at about 20 feet away.

http://axonpotential.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Science-of-the-Swing.jpg

See this pitch? From the batter's perspective, it will look like it's coming right at your chest at that crucial midway point, so the batter lays off, thinking a ball, and then the ball breaks in. You're at home thinking, "Why didn't he swing? I would've swung!"

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WelloffGreedyAkitainu-size_restricted.gif

And this is where the chess game begins? Do I lay off? Is he throwing a fast ball in the zone or a slider? Example:

http://www-thescore.s3.amazonaws.com/images/128568/original.gif?1374084088

To you, it looks like a "ball that shouldn't have been swung at," and you're there at home thinking I would've never swung at it. But again, the pitcher will have set up this pitch with a fastball in the zone delivered from the same arm angle, and if it's a pitcher's count, the batter will be forced into protection mode and have to fight off pitches. If the pitcher hits his spot, that slider (a wild looking pitch to you) will look exactly like a fastball to the batter as he readies to swing. Then he swings and whiff. Nothing there.

And this is where the intensive video analysis and scouting reports come in. Batters will be studying a pitcher's delivery looking for tells, variations in arm angle, studying pitch patterns in certain situation, all to be able to better predict what the pitcher will throw and where he'll throw it.

It's not "guy throws hard, guys swings, durrrrr,"

(you'll always be my bro, apologize for calling you stupid, but this shit annoys me. Did you see in my first post ITT that I didn't even attempt to break down soccer, because I only have a casual understanding of it? Yet the soccer crew thinks they can go into depth on baseball because they saw Bartolo Colon being made fun of on twitter),

[apalisoc_9]

Did midnightpul just tried to pass a throw as a strategy? :lmao

That's like a sweet banana kick vs Goalkeeper breakdown...that's so low :lmao

[DAF86]

Yeah, I'm not reading all that. Much less knowing that its goal is to try to sell me the idea that baseball is, somehow, a tactically complex sport. :lol

[midnightpulp]

Did midnightpul just tried to pass a throw as a strategy? :lmao

That's like a sweet banana kick vs Goalkeeper breakdown...that's so low :lmao

Yeah, except the flop trot player has 200 square feet to work with compare to 3 sq feet. Try again, Poke Master.

[midnightpulp]

Yeah, I'm not reading all that. Much less knowing that its goal is to try to sell me the idea that baseball is, somehow, a tactically complex sport. :lol

Of course you won't.

I don't expect povertyball fans to understand things with depth.

It's why that "sport" is the 3rd world's favorite game, because anyone can understand it :lol

Socccer. So deep.


‘The bus’ is the fad at the moment. Though I salute the genius who came up with it, it is hoped that somebody finds a way to conquer it once and for all, simply because the game will lose fans if teams become successful by playing so negatively.

Soccer is so "tactically complex" and that a low-rent form of a sagging NFL prevent defense or NBA zone is an "unconquerable" tactic :lmao

And don't even try to argue against it. The fact that 50% of the games end in 1-0 and 30% of the games end in ties illustrates how effective that simple tactic is.

"Deep" :lmao

I guess when soccer is the only game you know, shit like that seems "deep."

Oh yeah, check out the demos for baseball fans:

http://oi64.tinypic.com/16k2vte.jpg

:hat Post-graduates make up the majority of baseball fans.

And the least are adults who make under 35K per year household income :lmao

[apalisoc_9]

Yeah, except the flop trot player has 200 square feet to work with compare to 3 sq feet. Try again, Poke Master.

200 ft vs 3 ft? Lmao...try another more creative spinning bro

[apalisoc_9]

But Europe is also third world :cry

American logic : Everything is third world...look at them, they're not fat enough to be rich..you cant expect me to believe that's a thriving nation when no one is rich enough to stuff their bellies with enough bacon and ham to achieve maximum strenghth and fatness

[apalisoc_9]

A good analogy to Baseball tactical complexity is like planning on taking a shit and positioning your ass and butthole at a specific angle so as to avoid getting your ass wet and to insure shit goes to water instead of staining the toilet.

Its the same shit.

[Arcadian]

http://axonpotential.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Science-of-the-Swing.jpg



That's an interesting figure. Baseball is definitely not easy. I thought it was hard as shit in little league! :lol Then I said "fuck this" and switched to basketball.

[midnightpulp]

200 ft vs 3 ft? Lmao...try another more creative spinning bro

Floptrot fans and baseball haters demonstrate their lack of intelligence (per par, given the fact that baseball fans are post-grads).

SQUARE feet.

Dimensions of soccer goal: 8 x 24=192 square feet.

Dimensions of strike-zone (give or take): 1.5 x 1.5=2.25 square feet

[apalisoc_9]

Floptrot fans and baseball haters demonstrate their lack of intelligence (per par, given the fact that baseball fans are post-grads).

SQUARE feet.

Dimensions of soccer goal: 8 x 24=192 square feet.

Dimensions of strike-zone (give or take): 1.5 x 1.5=2.25 square feet

Except those dynamics change as the dribbler closes in..You see unlike fatball, There's actually movement involved in soccer.

[Clipper Nation]

Yeah you're full of shit.

Soccer is the most diverse sport in terms of tactics and strategy.

Floptrot strategies:

1. Jog around and don't trip over the ball.
2. Park the bus when a miracle happens and you actually score a point.
3. Pray that the elites of your country/region paid the refs more than the elites of the other team's country/region.

:lol "Diverse"
:lol "Tactics"
:lol "Strategy"
:lol Floptrot

[midnightpulp]

That's an interesting figure. Baseball is definitely not easy. I thought it was hard as shit in little league! :lol Then I said "fuck this" and switched to basketball.

Hardest action (that is relative to the core game) to do in sports.

My eyesight went to below average, and that's all she wrote for my baseball career. No Lasik back then.

I so badly want to get Apa and DAF in a 100mph cage.

We'll start off by seeing if they can even catch a 100mph fast. And unlike this guy, I ain't giving them catcher's gear.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-4xZkja634

Sadly, I'll be posting on ST about the deaths of our fine friend Apa the Pokemaster and DAF :lol

"Let's get you on the pitch. Bet you'll have a heart attack!"

I run 10K twice a week. Let's go.

[midnightpulp]

Except those dynamics change as the dribbler closes in..You see unlike fatball, There's actually movement involved in soccer.

The dynamics change for EVERY pitch. And there's 300 pitches total per game in baseball.

In floptrot, we're lucky if we see 2 shots on goal per team or 5 drives into shooting range. Yeah, so "tactically" demanding. :lol

"The super deep "tactic" we're going to use to stop this player when he closes in is, to, um, defend him by congesting shooting lanes and crowd the dribbler, hopefully we'll force a dispossesion or force a rushed shot into a defender!"

Nothing deep about soccer. It's fuckin' basketball played with the feet on a 100 yard field with 11 men per side.

And just stop. You don't know anything about baseball.

[apalisoc_9]

Ah..I wouldnt be able to shutput or throw a javelin..
Does that make those sports any more complex? Nope.

Try again bro...

[apalisoc_9]

The dynamics change for EVERY pitch. And there's 300 pitches total per game in baseball.

In floptrot, we're lucky if we see 2 shots on goal per team or 5 drives into shooting range. Yeah, so "tactically" demanding. :lol

"The super deep "tactic" we're going to use to stop this player when he closes in is, to, um, defend him by congesting shooting lanes and crowd the dribbler, hopefully we'll force a dispossesion or force a rushed shot into a defender!"

Nothing deep about soccer. It's fuckin' basketball played with the feet on a 100 yard field with 11 men per side.

And just stop. You don't know anything about baseball.

Dynamics change every pitch? As if that doesnt apply to every kick :lmao

Its pretty clear, there isnt a whole lot going on in the game of baseball if the lifeblood of its game can be comparable to single soccer kick. :lol

[lefty20]

Does that mean I can be a soccer star by having decent acting skills and an ability to kick a ball?


EDIT- I gotta l2read, tbh.:bang

[midnightpulp]

Ah..I wouldnt be able to shutput or throw a javelin..
Does that make those sports any more complex? Nope.

Try again bro...

How do you define "complexity?"

[Tully365]

This again? Guys, what the fuck? I know it's the offseason, but the NBA forum has become the "shit on other sports" forum apparently...

This, again? My thoughts exactly.

The great irony here is that the OP's style of repetitively posting the same opinions over and over in new threads out-baseballs baseball.

[midnightpulp]

Dynamics change every pitch? As if that doesnt apply to every kick :lmao

Its pretty clear, there isnt a whole lot going on in the game of baseball if the lifeblood of its game can be comparable to single soccer kick. :lol

Sure they do :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy91G4N5evo

Look at all those on the fly adjustments after each "kick."

Oh, a player kicks the ball out of bounds?

Wow! What a dynamically influential event beyond all comprehension!

You really don't understand my point. Each pitch can dictate a completely different approach for the next pitch. A 0-1 vs. 1-0 count are totally different situations.

In soccer, a team isn't going to completely rework their tactical plan because a ball is passed from one guy to another. Chelsea remains committed to their parking the bus strategy no matter (you'll say otherwise, but I have google, and can post Chelsea's stats in this regard).

And if you want to use "the ball in play forces a dynamic change no matter what" idea then I guess basketball is the deepest sport ever, since a basketball game has more passes per game than a soccer game.

But yea, so much depth. Even Mouriho or whatever praises other teams for parking the bus (a piss easy and shallow tactic proven to be high effective):

http://www.espnfc.us/chelsea/story/2485427/jose-mourinho-says-credit-go-to-the-bus-drivers

And work it does. It's why 50% of soccer games end 1-0 :lmao

"Deep."

[lefty]

There's tons of strategy and coaching

:lol pinch-running for the fat guys
:lol sacrifice bunting
:lol pinch sacrifice bunting
:lol the righty-lefty switch to gain minuscule advantage
:lol relief pitchers facing 1 batter every few nights, gets paid a million $
:lol "setup" relief pitchers facing 3 batters every few nights, gets paid multi-million $s
:lol base coaches to tell a player to stop or go, wrong 1/2 the time
:lol base coaches wearing helmets
:lol should allow base coach at 2nd since these cretins can't figure out to run or stop
:lol managers wearing the outfit
:lol strategy: budweiser or miller lite?
:lol strategy: drumstick or thigh?
:lol strategy: marlboro or camel?


:lol pitch counts
:lol starting pitchers can only play 6 times in an entire month
:lol no complete games anymore
:lol today's MLB
:lol

[chunticakes]

:lol today's NBA forum :lol

[midnightpulp]

Soccer's most effective tactic:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4c1jitQpP1qcsboko1_500.jpg

:lmao Basically a prevent football defense or a pack-the-paint NBA-style zone defense that congests passing, driving, and in soccer's case, shooting lanes, which pushes the attacking team out wide and forces more low percentage crosses that can be intercepted for a counterattack up the middle.

I'm on record as saying basketball is the shallowest sport tactically, but I really think soccer takes the prize. Basketball has more counters at its disposal for cheap tactical offensive schemes like zones and traps, mainly the fact you can shoot from outside the zone and score at a high percentage, forcing the defending team into a more honest scheme.

:lol in soccer it's a miracle when a team breaks down the Bus.

:madrun "Y-Y-You don't know what you're talking about! Parking the bus rarely works!" :madrun

So if cheap defensive tactics aren't highly effective, why do 50% of the games end in 1-0?

[Caltex2]

I bet you could not score 1-1 in 1000 tries against any professional basketball player
I bet you could not stop a penalty kick in 1000 tries against any professional football player
I bet you could not catch an in-game slant in 1000 tries thrown by any professional quarterback

LOL, ALL of those can be done, especially the penalty kick one. Half the battle is guessing which direction the ball is going to and the other half is guessing how high the ball is going. The ball won't be going 75 MPH, so it's not as if you'll break your hand trying to stop the ball. You'll break a finger if you're very unlucky.

An average guy beat LeBron in a game of 1-on-1, so spare me, even some of us message boarders can beat NBA players 1-on-1. Maybe not for an entire game or series but we could score, especially if they gamble and get beat to the hole.

An in-game slant would be the hardest by far but not impossible. I'd be more concerned with getting my clock cleaned after making the catch and may drop it in anticipation.

[resistanze]

There's tons of strategy and coaching

:lol pinch-running for the fat guys
:lol sacrifice bunting
:lol pinch sacrifice bunting
:lol the righty-lefty switch to gain minuscule advantage
:lol relief pitchers facing 1 batter every few nights, gets paid a million $
:lol "setup" relief pitchers facing 3 batters every few nights, gets paid multi-million $s
:lol base coaches to tell a player to stop or go, wrong 1/2 the time
:lol base coaches wearing helmets
:lol should allow base coach at 2nd since these cretins can't figure out to run or stop
:lol managers wearing the outfit
:lol strategy: budweiser or miller lite?
:lol strategy: drumstick or thigh?
:lol strategy: marlboro or camel?

:lol

[resistanze]

An average guy beat LeBron in a game of 1-on-1, so spare me, even some of us message boarders can beat NBA players 1-on-1. Maybe not for an entire game or series but we could score, especially if they gamble and get beat to the hole.


:lol When the fuck did this happen? You're insane if you think you'd score a point against LeBron 1-1, are you on bath salts?

[midnightpulp]

:lol When the fuck did this happen? You're insane if you think you'd score a point against LeBron 1-1, are you on bath salts?

That might be true, but Splits said any pro basketball player, and I know for a fact I'll score at least 1 point in a 1000 tries against the 5'8" Isaiah Thomas.

I could probably beat Marcelo Huertas off the dribble as well :lol

Meanwhile, no one here is touching any major league pitcher beyond foul tips unless you played baseball at least a college level or were perhaps a hot shot HS school player.

http://i.imgur.com/VmUAO0l.gif

[apalisoc_9]

That might be true, but Splits said any pro basketball player, and I know for a fact I'll score at least 1 point in a 1000 tries against the 5'8" Isaiah Thomas.

I could probably beat Marcelo Huertas off the dribble as well :lol

Meanwhile, no one here is touching any major league pitcher beyond foul tips unless you played baseball at least a college level or were perhaps a hot shot HS school player.

http://i.imgur.com/VmUAO0l.gif

And no one here would be able to beat a dart 501 player in darts.

Whats your point?

Come to think of it, baseball=Darts.

[resistanze]

That might be true, but Splits said any pro basketball player, and I know for a fact I'll score at least 1 point in a 1000 tries against the 5'8" Isaiah Thomas.

I could probably beat Marcelo Huertas off the dribble as well :lol

Meanwhile, no one here is touching any major league pitcher beyond foul tips unless you played baseball at least a college level or were perhaps a hot shot HS school player.

http://i.imgur.com/VmUAO0l.gif

The difference is really negligible. Your starting point has to to be the same in both cases - if you play basketball as a hobby/recreationally, we must assume you've done the same for baseball.

If you haven't played basketball at any level, you're not going to score on Isiah Thomas. So I can only assume in the example for baseball, it's someone who's at least hit up batting cages regularly. In that case...you're probably getting a hit off an MLB pitcher in 1000 pitches, serendipitously or not.

[midnightpulp]

And no one here would be able to beat a dart 501 player in darts.

Whats your point?

Come to think of it, baseball=Darts.

That would make sense if you could find me videos of dart players running over 23 mph, which exceeds any speed a floptrot player has run in history.

Quit trying to spin it that baseball is an unathletic game. I'll throw your soccer playing ass out on the field, and your "stamina," which seems to be the only athletic trait you value won't help you do shit like this:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--INsFeikE--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/ksegymbpryyfmhcxczd3.gif

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images//visual/whatshot/Manny-Machado-Orioles-Yankees-cannon2.gif

"They're just jumping and throwing!"

Pillar's feat is WAY harder to pull off than an in game dunk in the NBA. He has to track a small ball 100 feet high while sprinting, judge the probable landing trajectory, and time his (35-40") jump perfectly to rob that homerun. Pillar, a great leaper, would have a better chance of doing a NBA dunk than Carmelo would have of robbing that home run.

And the the 3rd base throw is just sick. Reminder that is from a distance of about 140 feet away, 1.5 times the length of an NBA court, and he was off balance while making it.

[midnightpulp]

The difference is really negligible. Your starting point has to to be the same in both cases - if you play basketball as a hobby/recreationally, we must assume you've done the same for baseball.

If you haven't played basketball at any level, you're not going to score on Isiah Thomas. So I can only assume in the example for baseball, it's someone who's at least hit up batting cages regularly. In that case...you're probably getting a hit off an MLB pitcher in 1000 pitches, serendipitously or not.

Possibly, but you would have to hit up the cages daily and hit up cages that feature 90-100mph speeds (not all do). Cages also don't throw you 4-seamers, 2-seamers, sinkers, change ups, sliders, cutters, etc.

And are we talking a "hit," as in beating the defense or just making fair territory contact?

[Caltex2]

:lol When the fuck did this happen? You're insane if you think you'd score a point against LeBron 1-1, are you on bath salts?

I remember a few years back he got beat by some cat from Cleveland, though I can't find the source. Anyways, I could score on LeBron (I'm extremely quick and know how to angle and fake) but I'd stand no chance in Hell in actually beating him in a game. I'd say on my best day, LeBron beats me 15-4 in a game to 15. But if I get the first possesion, I could certainly get out to a lead, though it'd end as soon as he caught his first wind and made adjustments to my style, let alone how he'd overpower me.

[resistanze]

Possibly, but you would have to hit up the cages daily and hit up cages that feature 90-100mph speeds (not all do). Cages also don't throw you 4-seamers, 2-seamers, sinkers, change ups, sliders, cutters, etc.

And are we talking a "hit," as in beating the defense or just making fair territory contact?

Oh its much different getting a hit (as in a ground ball that could at least challenge for a base hit) off a MLB pitcher vs batting cage. But I'd say the same as playing basketball at the Y vs facing Isiah Thomas one on one if he's locked in to guard you. I mean, I'm pretty sure if you give me 1000 swings against R.A Dickey, I'm gonna hit one of his inevitable fat pitches he will throw (that I've witnessed too many times this year) :lol

The difference is just negligible to me and like I said before I follow both sports. The threads are good entertainment though tbh.

[resistanze]

I'd say on my best day, LeBron beats me 15-4 in a game to 15. But if I get the first possesion, I could certainly get out to a lead, though it'd end as soon as he caught his first wind and made adjustments to my style, let alone how he'd overpower me.

http://i.giphy.com/5YF9dwGZ29rVe.gif

Lebron would snatch the soul outta your body on the first possession, you are living in a fantasy world. You might actually die on the court...15-4? :lmao

There was no average Joe beating LeBron 1 on 1, thats just ficiton. There was the video of Jordan Crawford (who played in NBA) 'dunking on' LeBron in a scrimmage team game.

[midnightpulp]

Oh its much different getting a hit (as in a ground ball that could at least challenge for a base hit) off a MLB pitcher vs batting cage. But I'd say the same as playing basketball at the Y vs facing Isiah Thomas one on one if he's locked in to guard you. I mean, I'm pretty sure if you give me 1000 swings against R.A Dickey, I'm gonna hit one of his inevitable fat pitches he will throw (that I've witnessed too many times this year) :lol

The difference is just negligible to me and like I said before I follow both sports. The threads are good entertainment though tbh.

:lol Forgot about Dickey. If the knuckler isn't working, it's a 75mph grapefruit.

[midnightpulp]

Oh its much different getting a hit (as in a ground ball that could at least challenge for a base hit) off a MLB pitcher vs batting cage. But I'd say the same as playing basketball at the Y vs facing Isiah Thomas one on one if he's locked in to guard you. I mean, I'm pretty sure if you give me 1000 swings against R.A Dickey, I'm gonna hit one of his inevitable fat pitches he will throw (that I've witnessed too many times this year) :lol

The difference is just negligible to me and like I said before I follow both sports. The threads are good entertainment though tbh.

Oh, and how about the reverse of this?

Could you strikeout someone like Daniel Murphy or Mike Trout if you had a thousand pitches?

(You might be able to get them out, though. They could very well belt a hard liner right to an infielder. Batting practice pitches are about 60 mph and we see in the HR derby that they can be popped up and such).

[Mikeanaro]

Anwer to OP, yes it is.
Whats with all that chewing tobacco shit?

[Caltex2]

http://i.giphy.com/5YF9dwGZ29rVe.gif

Lebron would snatch the soul outta your body on the first possession, you are living in a fantasy world. You might actually die on the court...15-4? :lmao

There was no average Joe beating LeBron 1 on 1, thats just ficiton. There was the video of Jordan Crawford (who played in NBA) 'dunking on' LeBron in a scrimmage team game.

It's 1-on-1, if you gamble or guess wrong, you get beat to the hoop unlike a multiplayer game where you have a big man to back you up at the rack. If someone shoots over you and you don't block it, then it has a chance of going in. The fact that LeBron would have no enforcer behind him or that I can launch a shot after the check ball means I stand a chance of scoring on him. There are ways to mitigate or neutralize his size in some scenarios, there are ways to use you body to shield him off and keep some space.

And as it stands LeBron probably scores 50 straight points on me. But don't make it out like he's a god. In a 1-on-1 scenario, he's just one man, albeit THE man at the current moment. This isn't like an MLB pitcher throwing a fastball or something with some English on it or me trying to hold onto the ball while getting rocked by a linebacker in mid-flight. I'd actually stand a worse chance of beating Steph Curry since he can hit 3's like layups and could keep up with me and my quickness+agility better than LeBron.

[DAF86]

Why does midnightpulp keep bringing up the "parking the bus strategy" (as if that was an strategy on itself)? Does he even know that the teams that use that strategy (either by choice or because they have no other option) lose most of the time?

[midnightpulp]

Why does midnightpulp keep bringing up the "parking the bus strategy" (as if that was an strategy on itself)? Does he even know that the teams that use that strategy (either by choice or because they have no other option) lose most of the time?

Chelsea is a two-time EPL champ over the last decade.

Sorry, sport. I know you want to talk up floppytrot like it's the most complex sport ever devised by man, but it isn't. No sports are particularly "deep," and often come down to simply which team executes better, imposes their style more, and out skills the other.

In fact, floppytrot is the most luck based of all sports:


But if the rest of the world took our helpful advice, would soccer really be any fairer? Not necessarily, say the economists and statisticians who have been analyzing the balance between skill and luck in sports and in the rest of life.

Because of fluke goals, low scores and the many matches that end in ties, soccer is less predictable than other major sports, as Chris Anderson and David Sally explain in their soccer book, “The Numbers Game.”

The authors, who are professors at Cornell and Dartmouth, as well as consultants to soccer teams, found that the team favored by bettors won just half the time in soccer, whereas the favorite won three-fifths of the time in baseball and two-thirds of the time in football and in basketball. After surveying the research literature, they concluded that a soccer match’s outcome was about half skill and half luck.

But just because an individual soccer game can be decided by a lucky bounce doesn’t mean that the game is less fair than other sports.

:lmao

It's literally the blackjack of sports :lol

"Deep."

[DAF86]

Chelsea is a two-time EPL champ over the last decade.

The fuck does that have to do with anything? :lol


Sorry, sport. I know you want to talk up floppytrot like it's the most complex sport ever devised by man, but it isn't. No sports are particularly "deep," and often come down to simply which team executes better, imposes their style more, and out skills the other.

In fact, floppytrot is the most luck based of all sports:



:lmao

It's literally the blackjack of sports :lol

"Deep."

No, I don't want to talk up soccer as the most complex game ever. I'm just pointing out the pretty obvious fact that is way more complex and dynamic than baseball, tbh.

Soccer being more unpredictable than other sports doesn't mean it isn't complex, tbh. When was the last time the favoured team won the NFL 'ship? Does that mean that the NFL isn't strategic?

In baseball is pretty normal to see teams that win it all one year suck complete ass the next one, or visceversa. If that isn't the ultimate "unpredictable" sport ocurrance it's pretty damn near the top, tbh. Is that for a lack of complexity too?

[midnightpulp]

The fuck does that have to do with anything? :lol



No, I don't want to talk up soccer as the most complex game ever. I'm just pointing out the pretty obvious fact that is way more complex and dynamic than baseball, tbh.

Soccer being more unpredictable than other sports doesn't mean it isn't complex, tbh. When was the last time the favoured team won the NFL 'ship? Does that mean that the NFL isn't strategic?

In baseball is pretty normal to see teams that win it all one year suck complete ass the next one, or visceversa. If that isn't the ultimate "unpredictable" sport ocurrance it's pretty damn near the top, tbh. Is that for a lack of complexity too?

Because you don't know anything about baseball. Nothing. You have zero clue whatsoever about the sport. Take me to task all you want for not knowing anything about soccer, but I at least have a casual understanding of the game, watched over 100 hours of it, used to play FIFA and other soccer video games that can teach you a cursory understanding of the tactics involved.

You don't even have a casual understanding about baseball, but yet proceed to think you know about it. I actually wrote out a detailed post and you replied, "I'm not reading all that." It's obvious you're biased. And that's what irritates me.

Again, demonstrating a lack of knowledge. When that happens, it's usually the result of key players getting hurt or players who were free agents going to other teams. Yeah, it's not like the Yankees were a bloop single away from 4-peating or anything, something no other American professional sports team has come close to doing.

And if you bothered to read anything I write, the reason bad teams can become good the next season is because baseball has this thing called a Farm system, where loads of prospects are being developed. Unlike in the NBA and NFL, there's no drafting a number 1 pick, throwing a jersey on him, and he comes in and improves the team by a few wins. If a team has its scouting and development on point, they can often turn 20th fuckin' round draft picks into great players. It literally makes NBA roster building look like a farce.

And baseball roster building is probably the most complex in all of sports. You don't just need to build your main MLB roster, but also the 5-10 farm teams below the main team and your International feeder teams.

:cry "It's not complex because they don't run plays" :cry

There's different kinds of complexity. Like I said, Ivy league nerds head up MLB Front offices for a reason.

[313]

There's tons of strategy and coaching

:lol pinch-running for the fat guys
:lol sacrifice bunting
:lol pinch sacrifice bunting
:lol the righty-lefty switch to gain minuscule advantage
:lol relief pitchers facing 1 batter every few nights, gets paid a million $
:lol "setup" relief pitchers facing 3 batters every few nights, gets paid multi-million $s
:lol base coaches to tell a player to stop or go, wrong 1/2 the time
:lol base coaches wearing helmets
:lol should allow base coach at 2nd since these cretins can't figure out to run or stop
:lol managers wearing the outfit
:lol strategy: budweiser or miller lite?
:lol strategy: drumstick or thigh?
:lol strategy: marlboro or camel?
:lol stretch breaks for the crowd after the sixth inning

[AlexJones]

Baseball strategy is overrated. So many managers overdo everything. Shifts are fine, but the red light/green lights, sending the runner on certain counts and outs, etc. are all a bunch of insignificant shit that do not matter in the long run.

[midnightpulp]

Baseball strategy is overrated. So many managers overdo everything. Shifts are fine, but the red light/green lights, sending the runner on certain counts and outs, etc. are all a bunch of insignificant shit that do not matter in the long run.

Not true.


The hit-and-run is far from the worst play in baseball. For a small-ball tactic, it has been quite successful over the past nine seasons, increasing scoring by .06 runs per attempt on average. The value of the hole in the infield defense is real, adding about 27 points to the batting average of the hitter. The double plays avoided by executing the hit-and-run offset the runners caught stealing on the play, and the extra bases gained by the runner when the ball is put in play are enough to move the play into the plus column overall.

However, there are some situations where the hit-and-run attempt made less sense and was a barely positive or even a net negative play—with the fourth and fifth hitters in the lineup up, with one out, or in the popular ball-strike count of 2-1.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15713

So sending the runner on certain counts and out situations depending on who is at the plate does have a different effect, and armed with this data, managers know that executing a hit-and-run play in certain situations is a net positive and a net negative in other situations. In this case, you're producing another 3 "outs" for yourself as if you were playing poker (6%). And we'd all like to have 3 additional outs when drawing.

[midnightpulp]

Link to any base coach that has died?

http://espn.go.com/minorlbb/news/story?id=2945798

[resistanze]

And as it stands LeBron probably scores 50 straight points on me. But don't make it out like he's a god. In a 1-on-1 scenario, he's just one man, albeit THE man at the current moment. This isn't like an MLB pitcher throwing a fastball or something with some English on it or me trying to hold onto the ball while getting rocked by a linebacker in mid-flight. I'd actually stand a worse chance of beating Steph Curry since he can hit 3's like layups and could keep up with me and my quickness+agility better than LeBron.
Keep up with your agile + quickness? LMAO. I'd bet my salary this year LeBron is quicker and more agile than you :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY8IEI0IVeE

Why in God's name do you think 1-on-1 gives you a better chance than an actual team game? Or think he'd ever need to gamble against you? I don't know if you've seen LeBron or any top athlete play in real time man. LeBron would blow by you with every first step and would score 100 straight dunks, he wouldn't even bother shooting. You can't be serious.

[apalisoc_9]

The only way some random dide would sxore on Lebron is if it was losers out. Otherwise, he'd bulldozer his way to a 15-0 victory..98% of the time.

Americans are truly delusional

[DAF86]

Because you don't know anything about baseball. Nothing. You have zero clue whatsoever about the sport. Take me to task all you want for not knowing anything about soccer, but I at least have a casual understanding of the game, watched over 100 hours of it, used to play FIFA and other soccer video games that can teach you a cursory understanding of the tactics involved.

You don't even have a casual understanding about baseball, but yet proceed to think you know about it. I actually wrote out a detailed post and you replied, "I'm not reading all that." It's obvious you're biased. And that's what irritates me.

Again, demonstrating a lack of knowledge. When that happens, it's usually the result of key players getting hurt or players who were free agents going to other teams. Yeah, it's not like the Yankees were a bloop single away from 4-peating or anything, something no other American professional sports team has come close to doing.

And if you bothered to read anything I write, the reason bad teams can become good the next season is because baseball has this thing called a Farm system, where loads of prospects are being developed. Unlike in the NBA and NFL, there's no drafting a number 1 pick, throwing a jersey on him, and he comes in and improves the team by a few wins. If a team has its scouting and development on point, they can often turn 20th fuckin' round draft picks into great players. It literally makes NBA roster building look like a farce.

And baseball roster building is probably the most complex in all of sports. You don't just need to build your main MLB roster, but also the 5-10 farm teams below the main team and your International feeder teams.

:cry "It's not complex because they don't run plays" :cry

There's different kinds of complexity. Like I said, Ivy league nerds head up MLB Front offices for a reason.

When you say something as retarded as "soccer doesn't need a balance between righties and lefties" your "casual knowledge" doesn't show at all, tbh.

And it's funny you bring this up son, 'cause I also believe to have an understanding of baseball, tbh. I used to watch it, I even played it, and my favourite videogames are baseball ones. So I know all about that shit you are ranting about son. That's why I don't come up with retarded exposing comments such as "baseball doesn't need a balance between righties and lefties", tbh.

[140]

When you say something as retarded as "soccer doesn't need a balance between righties and lefties" your "casual knowledge" doesn't show at all, tbh.

This, tbh :lol smh..

Also:

And since every ball park is unique, you have to build your team in a way that it can best excel at home.
:lmao trying to spin the fact that fatbol fails to even have something as basic as standard sized fields in its top league into something positive :lmao

[FkLA]

:lmao

That also proves how hard baseball is. The fact that the best Argies can't throw strikes consistently.

But MLB pitchers can pretty much throw a strike every time down at 90mph. The only reason there is balls at times is because it would suicide to just throw 90mph fastballs straight down the middle to a major league hitter. You're not a major league hitter, and a 75 mph lob would be enough to strike you out. Also, another misconception the soccer crew has is that you can track pitchers all the way to the plate. Nope. The eye/brain can't track the last 10 or so feet of a 90+mph fastball, and factoring reaction times, you have to judge the pitch and its trajectory at about 20 feet away.

http://axonpotential.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Science-of-the-Swing.jpg

See this pitch? From the batter's perspective, it will look like it's coming right at your chest at that crucial midway point, so the batter lays off, thinking a ball, and then the ball breaks in. You're at home thinking, "Why didn't he swing? I would've swung!"

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WelloffGreedyAkitainu-size_restricted.gif

And this is where the chess game begins? Do I lay off? Is he throwing a fast ball in the zone or a slider? Example:

http://www-thescore.s3.amazonaws.com/images/128568/original.gif?1374084088

To you, it looks like a "ball that shouldn't have been swung at," and you're there at home thinking I would've never swung at it. But again, the pitcher will have set up this pitch with a fastball in the zone delivered from the same arm angle, and if it's a pitcher's count, the batter will be forced into protection mode and have to fight off pitches. If the pitcher hits his spot, that slider (a wild looking pitch to you) will look exactly like a fastball to the batter as he readies to swing. Then he swings and whiff. Nothing there.

And this is where the intensive video analysis and scouting reports come in. Batters will be studying a pitcher's delivery looking for tells, variations in arm angle, studying pitch patterns in certain situation, all to be able to better predict what the pitcher will throw and where he'll throw it.

It's not "guy throws hard, guys swings, durrrrr,"

(you'll always be my bro, apologize for calling you stupid, but this shit annoys me. Did you see in my first post ITT that I didn't even attempt to break down soccer, because I only have a casual understanding of it? Yet the soccer crew thinks they can go into depth on baseball because they saw Bartolo Colon being made fun of on twitter),

:lol At trying to paint the simplest things as complicated. Hitting is a guessing game not a 'chess game'. It's why the change-up pitch exists. Reaction times and hand-eye coordination play their role but no amount of that will help you if you guess wrong and are done with your swing because you guessed fastball and got a change-up. If it was more skill than guess, then guys who only get hits in 3 out of 10 tries wouldn't be considered great hitters.

[Kawhitstorm]

Girlball > Fatball

_de3HJvO-N8

[Splits]

Girlball > Fatball

_de3HJvO-N8

:wow

[Kawhitstorm]

:wow

http://i.imgur.com/w5ST2e4.gif

[lefty]

And no one here would be able to beat a dart 501 player in darts.

Whats your point?

Come to think of it, baseball=Darts.
:lol

[lefty]

:lol stretch breaks for the crowd after the sixth inning

:lmao

[lefty]

:lmao trying to spin the fact that fatbol fails to even have something as basic as standard sized fields in its top league into something positive :lmao

:cry but don't you remember the mythic xxxxField corner that fooled that catcher in that famous 10 hour game from 1944 ?

[Splits]

:lol stretch breaks for the crowd after the sixth inning

:lol take me out to the fatbol game
:lol take me out to the snoring crowd
:lol buy me some beer and fried chicken
:lol players can "perform" drunk no problem
:lol we will smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke like a chimney
:lol just can't do it in the dugout anymore
:lol for it's 1, 2, 3 beers an inning
:lol while the crowd drools in boredom!

[140]

:lol stretch breaks for the crowd after the sixth inning
:lmao

[midnightpulp]

When you say something as retarded as "soccer doesn't need a balance between righties and lefties" your "casual knowledge" doesn't show at all, tbh.

And it's funny you bring this up son, 'cause I also believe to have an understanding of baseball, tbh. I used to watch it, I even played it, and my favourite videogames are baseball ones. So I know all about that shit you are ranting about son. That's why I don't come up with retarded exposing comments such as "baseball doesn't need a balance between righties and lefties", tbh.

No you don't. :lol

And I never said soccer "doesn't need a balance between lefties and righties." I asked YOU that question and also asked you to show me how a lefty/righty balance translates into success for clubs, which would demonstrate its importance.




Also, does a soccer roster need a balance between left and right handed players?

Show me something. A roster lineup that will illustrate 15 right footed players to 10 left footed players or something like that. Show me advanced statistical breakdowns that illustrate what the best theoretical balance is?

Here's the Pepsi Challenge to see if you know about baseball. Kindergarden Level tactics you say? Okay.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25sNn_p9nJA

From watching this video, tell me:

- What's the most effective way to pitch to Trout?

- What kind of hitters will you put in front and behind Trout in the lineup to protect him?

No googling. "Kindergarden level" things don't need research to be understood.

[midnightpulp]

:lol At trying to paint the simplest things as complicated. Hitting is a guessing game not a 'chess game'. It's why the change-up pitch exists. Reaction times and hand-eye coordination play their role but no amount of that will help you if you guess wrong and are done with your swing because you guessed fastball and got a change-up. If it was more skill than guess, then guys who only get hits in 3 out of 10 tries wouldn't be considered great hitters.

The sport often compared to "chess" (American football) is primarily based on guessing games (most strategy games actually are). And the way great coaches and players maximize their chances of "guessing right" is by studying hours and hours of film looking for patterns, tendencies, etc. See Malcolm Butler's interception in the Superbowl for example.

Think of a fastball as the "passing game" and off-speed as the "running game."

And just like you can have multiple variations of passing and running plays, you can multiple variations of fastballs and off-speed pitches.

[midnightpulp]

Soccer balance between lefties and righties (guess I'll have to do it myself, per par):

The EPL Champs Leicester:

Defense:

Luis Hernandez: R
Y. BENALOUANE: L
R. DE LAET: B
C. FUCHS: L
R. HUTH: R
L. MOORE: R
W. MORGAN: R
D. SIMPSON: R
M. WASILEWSKI: R

Midfield:

M. ALBRIGHTON: R
D. DRINKWATER: R
D. GRAY: Both
G. İNLER: Both
M. JAMES: R
A. KING: R
N. KANTE: R
T. LAWRENCE: R
N. MENDY: R
A. OLUKANMI: L

Attackers:

R. MAHREZ: L
J. VARDY: R
L. ULLOA: R
J. SCHLUPP: Both
S. OKAZAKI: R
A. MUSA: Both

So 2 out of the starting 10 are left-footed?

20%. 10% of the general pop are left handed.

Now for baseball:

http://oi63.tinypic.com/25k3955.jpg

(asterisk denotes left hander; # is a switch hitter)

62% of the starting batting order are lefties or switch.

Pitching staff:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/LAD/2016.shtml#team_pitching::14

9 out of the 25 pitchers are lefties or 36%.

[apalisoc_9]

Equating the balance of left and right through what foot they use. :lol

What an ignorant post. :lol

Ph but hes a left hander and that guy is a right hander...strategy :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Equating the balance of left and right through what foot they use. :lol

What an ignorant post. :lol

Ph but hes a left hander and that guy is a right hander...strategy :lmao

You're dumb.

I know soccer players have to "develop" a left or right foot, much like a basketball player has to develop an off hand.

You can't just "develop" your off arm to throw 95mph with elite accuracy. Physiologically impossible. And if you're not ambidextrous from birth, you can't just "develop" into a switch hitter.

Take the Pepsi Challenge, PokeMaster.

Tell me how to pitch to Trout and what kind of players you build around him in the lineup? Tell me where to shift on Trout, or if a shift should be used at all. No googling.

[apalisoc_9]

You're dumb.

I know soccer players have to "develop" a left or right foot, much like a basketball player has to develop an off hand.

You can't just "develop" your off arm to throw 95mph with elite accuracy. Physiologically impossible. And if you're not ambidextrous from birth, you can't just "develop" into a switch hitter.

Take the Pepsi Challenge, PokeMaster.

Tell me how to pitch to Trout and what kind of players you build around him in the lineup? Tell me where to shift on Trout, or if a shift should be used at all. No googling.

This thread is about tactic and strategy. Left and right strategy in soccer is all about left and right positioning..when you're trying to sell whatever dominant part of the body is, then thats proff how there is zero strategy inovoled in badeball.

[140]

lol so fatbol players only know how to use one hand to play?

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[apalisoc_9]

lol so fatbol players only know how to use one hand to play?

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Irs tactics bro..:lol

[140]

Irs tactics bro..:lol
Basketball version of fatbol players:

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mblnjt8zLR1rgrfiko3_250.gif

:rollin

[midnightpulp]

This thread is about tactic and strategy. Left and right strategy in soccer is all about left and right positioning..when you're trying to sell whatever dominant part of the body is, then thats proff how there is zero strategy inovoled in badeball.

Indeed.

If there's no tactics and strategy in baseball, you should have no problem telling me from that simple video clip of Trout what tactical approach to take vs. him.

No googling.

[FkLA]

The sport often compared to "chess" (American football) is primarily based on guessing games (most strategy games actually are). And the way great coaches and players maximize their chances of "guessing right" is by studying hours and hours of film looking for patterns, tendencies, etc. See Malcolm Butler's interception in the Superbowl for example.

Think of a fastball as the "passing game" and off-speed as the "running game."

And just like you can have multiple variations of passing and running plays, you can multiple variations of fastballs and off-speed pitches.

:lol Just no. No way did you just try to compare the guessing element in beisbol to that of football. There is no guessing involved in making an open field tackle, running stride for stride with a receiver, reading a defense, making a throw, running a good route, a RBs vision on a run, etc, etc. Football is for the most part about physical ability/skill/making good decisions.

I know there are other elements to baseball, like defense, that don't involve guessing. Hitting though, which is a huge part of the game does. I'm not saying it's easy just don't make it sound like it's super complex. It's not. It's a guessing game. You don't see soccer fans glorifying a penalty kick save by a goalie. We realize it's mostly a matter of luck since human reflexes aren't fast enough to react to a well hit penalty. Same with a pitch that has some heat behind it.

[offset formation]

I bet you could not score 1-1 in 1000 tries against any professional basketball player
I bet you could not stop a penalty kick in 1000 tries against any professional football player
I bet you could not catch an in-game slant in 1000 tries thrown by any professional quarterback

I played three sports all the way through school. Quarterback. Pitcher/shortstop. And SF

And I played soccer until 10th. Wing and goalie

You'd be wrong about your guess of my athletic abilities.

I threw 90.
I routinely was my team's best shooter...we had a challenge everyday at the end of practice
I could throw a ball 68 yards in the air.

Baseball is the most skillful sport.

[midnightpulp]

lol so fatbol players only know how to use one hand to play?

:lmao:lmao:lmao

:lmao Comparing trying to hit a 98mph fastest and 90mph sliders to dribbling a basketball or kickball.


If hitting a baseball is, indeed, the hardest skill in sports, then why double it by switch-hitting? Red Sox manager Terry Francona, a left-handed hitter, was asked if he ever tried switch-hitting. "No way!'' he said. "I had enough trouble hitting from one side. Why try two?''


Maybe the lesson here is that it's not so great to be a switch-hitter. It may help you make a club, it helps your versatility and it looks good on your résumé, but maybe it doesn't make you a much better hitter. But, for most switch-hitters, it's too late to give it up, as Snow did. Orioles catcher Matt Wieters has been switch-hitting since he was 5 years old. "And now,'' he said, "I have no interest in seeing the slider coming right at me.''

Floppytrot crew just can't stop being retarded :lol

[FkLA]

I played three sports all the way through school. Quarterback. Pitcher/shortstop. And SF

And I played soccer until 10th. Wing and goalie

You'd be wrong about your guess of my athletic abilities.

I threw 90.
I routinely was my team's best shooter...we had a challenge everyday at the end of practice
I could throw a ball 68 yards in the air.

Baseball is the most skillful sport.

Sup, mid?

[offset formation]

Sup, mid?

Nope. Imma be me.

We just happen to agree on this. Probably has something to do with us being educated, smarter than the dumbfucks like apo and the others.

[140]

:lmao Comparing trying to hit a 98mph fastest and 90mph sliders to dribbling a basketball or kickball.





Floppytrot crew just can't stop being retarded :lol
Says who? Wait, let me guess...a fatbol analyst! Sounds like a completely unbiased opinion.

Yeah, that'll show us :lol

[140]

Sup, mid?
:lmao

[midnightpulp]

:lol Just no. No way did you just try to compare the guessing element in beisbol to that of football. There is no guessing involved in making an open field tackle, running stride for stride with a receiver, reading a defense, making a throw, running a good route, a RBs vision on a run, etc, etc. Football is for the most part about physical ability/skill/making good decisions.

I know there are other elements to baseball, like defense, that doesn't involve guessing. Hitting though, which is a huge part of the game does. I'm not saying it's easy just don't make it sound like it's super complex. It's not. It's a guessing game. You don't see soccer fans glorifying a penalty kick save by a goalie. We realize it's mostly a matter of luck since human reflexes aren't fast enough to react to a well hit penalty. Same with a pitch that has some heat behind it.

Don't bring in open field tackles and the like into it. I'm talking about pre-snap events, and they are totally a guessing game.

Reading a defense (pre snap) is totally a guessing game, because defenses camouflage schemes in order to bait the offense into doing something disadvantageous. From film study, the QB might know that the when the defense is an a certain formation and position, 60% of the time they're coming with the blitz, 20% of the time they fall into a cover 2 zone, and 20% of the time they fall into a cover 2 zone but send the right CB on a blitz.

The same dynamic applies in the pitcher vs. batter matchup.

"Okay. 0-1 count. I know this pitcher throws an inside cutter in the bottom of the zone 30% of the time vs. right handed hitters. 40% of the time he throws a 4 seam fastball in the upper right part of the zone. 30% of the time he throws a slider that breaks out of the zone. But he also knows that I'm a weak hitter on balls in the upper part of the zone, so I think he's going to challenge me there."

And then pitcher, knowing what the batter knows, might "audible" and throw a fastball to the hitter's hot zone because he figured the hitter might be expecting a 4 seamer in the upper part of the zone.

You really need to study at bats more carefully, research batter and pitcher tendencies, and you'll see this "tactical battle" unfold. But I understand baseball doesn't have cute looking diagrams like this and formations, so thus it's not "tactical."

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/131/942/genoint3_original.png?1381968747

And there's no guessing game in making good throws in baseball, making good catches, being a good base runner, knowing when to hit and run, bunt, and having solid swing and pitching mechanics.

[midnightpulp]

Nope. Imma be me.

We just happen to agree on this. Probably has something to do with us being educated, smarter than the dumbfucks like apo and the others.

FKLA is my bro, but he once claimed he could easily throw out MLB runners from the short stop position :lmao

This was before the smartphone era, but luckily everyone has them now, and we can challenge people to prove their claims.

So if you still want to claim that, FKLA. Fire up the smartphone video, if you have a big yard, great. Map out a distance of 110 feet, setup a target (your first baseman) like a trash can and hit that target at a .950 rate (let's give you 100 throws).

Oh yeah, the ball has to get there in under a second.

Apa, 140, and Kawhitstorm can try this challenge, as well.

"I-I'm not in shape or practiced enough to do that!"

But I thought baseball was for fatties and easy for anyone to do?

Pick a lane.

[FkLA]

Don't bring in open field tackles and the like into it. I'm talking about pre-snap events, and they are totally a guessing game.

Reading a defense (pre snap) is totally a guessing game, because defenses camouflage schemes in order to bait the offense into doing something disadvantageous. From film study, the QB might know that the when the defense is an a certain formation and position, 60% of the time they're coming with the blitz, 20% of the time they fall into a cover 2 zone, and 20% of the time they fall into a cover 2 zone but send the right CB on a blitz.

The same dynamic applies in the pitcher vs. batter matchup.

"Okay. 0-1 count. I know this pitcher throws an inside cutter in the bottom of the zone 30% of the time vs. right handed hitters. 40% of the time he throws a 4 seam fastball in the upper right part of the zone. 30% of the time he throws a slider that breaks out of the zone. But he also knows that I'm a weak hitter on balls in the upper part of the zone, so I think he's going to challenge me there."

And then pitcher, knowing what the batter knows, might "audible" and throw a fastball to the hitter's hot zone because he figured the hitter might be expecting a 4 seamer in the upper part of the zone.

You really need to study at bats more carefully, research batter and pitcher tendencies, and you'll see this "tactical battle" unfold. But I understand baseball doesn't have cute looking diagrams like this and formations, so thus it's not "tactical."

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/131/942/genoint3_original.png?1381968747

And there's no guessing game in making good throws in baseball, making good catches, being a good base runner, knowing when to hit and run, bunt, and having solid swing and pitching mechanics.

Nah you're mistaking anticipation/preparation with guessing. QBs don't typically make throws based on their pre-snap read. They can adjust if defenses fall back into something other than what they read pre-snap. Hitters in baseball don't have that option. A goalie during a penalty kick is much more comparable. Both penalty kick saves and hits are largely based on luck.

[midnightpulp]

Nah you're mistaking anticipation/preparation with guessing. QBs don't typically make throws based on their pre-snap read. They can adjust if defenses fall back into something other than what they read pre-snap. Hitters in baseball don't have that option. A goalie during a penalty kick is much more comparable. It's based on luck.

That's exactly what hitters do :lmao


They can adjust

Again, proving you know jack shit.

Comparing the reaction time demands between soccer goalies and baseball players is retarded. A penalty kick distance is 36 fuckin' feet. Penalty shots are often in the 75-80mph range. It's been proven that human reaction times aren't fast enough to cover the entire goal. And you can't even do preparation in this case, because all a penalty kicker needs to do is a flip a coin prior to decide for him where to kick.

In baseball, you do have enough time to judge the pitch and make a conscious decision. It's on the bleeding edge of human ability, but it's there.

The "adjustment" in this case is picking up spin and arm angles. Maybe the hitter was expecting a slider, but the spin tells him it's a 2 seam fastball. And pitchers can often tip pitches by certain physical tells, the most telling being arm angle delivery which is why pitchers work constantly to deliver a fastball and their off-speed pitches from the exact same arm angle every time.

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/Pitches033015.jpg

They can see that ^^^

You think it's down to "luck," because you once went to the batting cages and everything looked the same and you just swung randomly. These guys have trained their entire lives to be hitters, have 20/10 vision on average, and well above average reaction times. I could never do it, as much as I wanted to, and moved on to a much easier sport like basketball.

https://sciencenonfiction.org/2016/05/23/hitting-a-fastball-requires-more-than-just-quick-reactions/

"Luck." :lol

[offset formation]

Link to any base coach that has died? Why doesn't the pitcher wear one, they get hit more often than base coaches?


688579760834752512




So I guess basketball should allow coaches under the rim so they can instruct players what's behind them



I'll grant you this at the pro level. Though at 12 years old I was hitting out of the 80mph cages.

Hell even a ball off the bat of a LL player can do it. Some people are saying it will only happen after a pitcher dies.

I can tell you as a former pitcher, you get hit occasionally. And it's scary as shit, but you have so little time to react. I shattered a finger trying to catch one comibg back up the middle. A friend of mine got hit in the head and immediately fell to the ground like a lump of clay, and startedconvulsing.

http://espn.go.com/minorlbb/news/story?id=2945798

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/league-coach-dies-hit-ball-practice-article-1.1947748

[FkLA]

That's exactly what hitters do :lmao



Again, proving you know jack shit.

Comparing the reaction time demands between soccer goalies and baseball players is retarded. A penalty kick distance is 36 fuckin' feet. Penalty shots are often in the 75-80mph range. It's been proven that human reaction times aren't fast enough to cover the entire goal. And you can't even do preparation in this case, because all a penalty kicker needs to do is a flip a coin prior to decide for him where to kick.

In baseball, you do have enough time to judge the pitch and make a conscious decision. It's on the bleeding edge of human ability, but it's there.

The "adjustment" in this case is picking up spin and arm angles. Maybe the hitter was expecting a slider, but the spin tells him it's a 2 seam fastball. And pitchers can often tip pitches by certain physical tells, the most telling being arm angle delivery which is why pitchers work constantly to deliver a fastball and their off-speed pitches from the exact same arm angle every time.

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/Pitches033015.jpg

They can see that ^^^

You think it's down to "luck," because you once went to the batting cages and everything looked the same and you just swung randomly. These guys have trained their entire lives to be hitters, have 20/10 vision on average, and well above average reaction times. I could never do it, as much as I wanted to, and moved on to a much easier sport like basketball.

https://sciencenonfiction.org/2016/05/23/hitting-a-fastball-requires-more-than-just-quick-reactions/

"Luck." :lol

You can try to make it as complex as you want. It's really not. It's not comparable to reading defenses in football at all. QBs can adjust because they have time to see the play develop and notice that their pre-snap read was off. Beisbol doesn't have that. Studying the spin and arm angle can make it a better guess but it's a guess nonetheless. A 30% success rate is considered exceptional. There's countless examples of hitters being way in front of pitches because they guessed wrong.

Again, I'm not trying to knock how hard it is to hit a baseball. Just don't go all sports science bc at the end of the day a lot of it just comes down to guessing correctly.

[FkLA]

FKLA is my bro, but he once claimed he could easily throw out MLB runners from the short stop position :lmao

This was before the smartphone era, but luckily everyone has them now, and we can challenge people to prove their claims.

So if you still want to claim that, FKLA. Fire up the smartphone video, if you have a big yard, great. Map out a distance of 110 feet, setup a target (your first baseman) like a trash can and hit that target at a .950 rate (let's give you 100 throws).

Oh yeah, the ball has to get there in under a second.

Apa, 140, and Kawhitstorm can try this challenge, as well.

"I-I'm not in shape or practiced enough to do that!"

But I thought baseball was for fatties and easy for anyone to do?

Pick a lane.

You have a noodle arm or something? Throwing a baseball hard isn't difficult. As far as accuracy, the average first baseman is over 6 ft tall with a pretty large wingspan so it's not like I'd be throwing into a small pocket. I'm obviously not saying I could field anywhere near as well as an MLB shortstop....but as far as just the throw itself goes I'd easily hit a .950 rate tbh.

[Splits]

You have a noodle arm or something? Throwing a baseball hard isn't difficult. As far as accuracy, the average first baseman is over 6 ft tall with a pretty large wingspan so it's not like I'd be throwing into a small pocket. I'm obviously not saying I could field anywhere near as well as an MLB shortstop....but as far as just the throw itself goes I'd easily hit a .950 rate tbh.

Considering the average fatballer is 6'1" 223, I'd imagine one of the fattest positions averages 6'0" 275 or so. HUGE target. Just gotta make sure he's ready for the ball and not picking fried chicken wings out of his pocket.

[midnightpulp]

You have a noodle arm or something? Throwing a baseball hard isn't difficult. As far as accuracy, the average first baseman is over 6 ft tall with a pretty large wingspan so it's not like I'd be throwing into a small pocket. I'm obviously not saying I could field anywhere near as well as an MLB shortstop....but as far as just the throw itself goes I'd easily hit a .950 rate tbh.

Fire up the smartphone.

[midnightpulp]

You can try to make it as complex as you want. It's really not. It's not comparable to reading defenses in football at all. QBs can adjust because they have time to see the play develop and notice that their pre-snap read was off. Beisbol doesn't have that. Studying the spin and arm angle can make it a better guess but it's a guess nonetheless. A 30% success rate is considered exceptional. There's countless examples of hitters being way in front of pitches because they guessed wrong.

Again, I'm not trying to knock how hard it is to hit a baseball. Just don't go all sports science bc at the end of the day a lot of it just comes down to guessing correctly.

No it doesn't but keep thinking that. I've actually proven my case here while you make handwavey arguments with nothing behind them.

[midnightpulp]

Considering the average fatballer is 6'1" 223, I'd imagine one of the fattest positions averages 6'0" 275 or so. HUGE target. Just gotta make sure he's ready for the ball and not picking fried chicken wings out of his pocket.

That diet helps baseball players run faster and jump higher than povertyball players.

Ronaldo dunking on an 8 foot goal :lmao

Your soccer heroes are shit athletes.

[FkLA]

Considering the average fatballer is 6'1" 223, I'd imagine one of the fattest positions averages 6'0" 275 or so. HUGE target. Just gotta make sure he's ready for the ball and not picking fried chicken wings out of his pocket.

:lol


Fire up the smartphone.

I probably will sometime. Won't do 100 throws but I'll do 10/10 which should be enough to prove my point tbh.


No it doesn't but keep thinking that. I've actually proven my case here while you make handwavey arguments with nothing behind them.

You've proven that hitters study arm angles and the spin of the ball to make better guesses. Nothing else.

You've also talked about the fact that fatball players have only a split second to read a pitch in a positive light then turned around and ridiculously tried to compare it to QBs reading defenses. QBs have multiple second to make reads. I think it's safe to say they are making much more conscious decisions than fatball players.

[midnightpulp]

:lol



I probably will sometime. Won't do 100 throws but I'll do 10/10 which should be enough to prove my point tbh.



You've proven that hitters study arm angles and the spin of the ball to make better guesses. Nothing else.

You've also talked about the fact that fatball players have only a split second to read a pitch in a positive light then turned around and ridiculously tried to compare it to QBs reading defenses. QBs have multiple second to make reads. I think it's safe to say they are making much more conscious decisions than fatball players.

So? You retardedly claimed that hitters don't have time to make "adjustments" to alter a pre-pitch read. I proved that wrong, and now you're moving the goal posts. "Uh, well, um, yeah, but they're still guessing!"

There's an element of guessing, sure, like in every sport, and it's why hitters get fooled (they also get fooled because they read the pitch wrong).

Quit reaching because you want to make baseball look tactically shallow when it's not and because you dislike baseball because there's not enough aimless running around.

.950 is only part of the challenge. You're going to need to be throwing in the 80-90mph range to beat MLB baserunners.

You can't throw 80mph with .950 accuracy from 110 feet.

We can bet on this, too. Entry level radar gun is 60.00. I'll paypal you the money to buy it. If you throw an accurate ball harder than 80, I'll give you 100.00. You don't. You pay me the cost of the gun and give me an addition 40.00.

If you're up for it, we do (privately) have to figure out a way to verify your identity, so you don' find a ringer. Maybe if you can PM me your facebook so I see a picture of you (if you're not up for it, I understand not wanting to share personal info.

We will also have to setup a timeline so you can't work on it for 6 months.

[ElNono]

A 30% success rate is considered exceptional.

This is an underrated point, tbh... you're basically watching a sport where 70% of the time, or more, the "exciting" part doesn't happen. And this is every game on long ass games.

A poorball team that only makes 30% of the passes right, has 30% of the possession in a game, or shoots under 30% on goal is probably an absolutely terrible team, and a shit sandwich to watch.

You do get boring games in poorball too though, here or there, especially teams that dominate possession a lot like Barca, Spain or even Argentina when playing shitty teams, but on average, you just get a lot more action for your 90 mins.

With that said, I have no problem with beisbol fans, tbh, they enjoy the sport, they like to get into it and watch it, that's fine with me.

[Caltex2]

Keep up with your agile + quickness? LMAO. I'd bet my salary this year LeBron is quicker and more agile than you :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY8IEI0IVeE

Why in God's name do you think 1-on-1 gives you a better chance than an actual team game? Or think he'd ever need to gamble against you? I don't know if you've seen LeBron or any top athlete play in real time man. LeBron would blow by you with every first step and would score 100 straight dunks, he wouldn't even bother shooting. You can't be serious.

That's not a safe bet (you betting your salary). I'm not the fastest person in the world but I'm quick, agile and I know how to lull defenders to sleep, which has led to many easy layups because people lost focus while I quietly and quickly broke to the hoop while they were looking the other way. I say I'd have a better shot of scoring (not beating) LeBron in 1-on-1 because he'd have no backup if I somehow got by him. The only way I'd beat LeBron in a game is with other teammates playing.

That said, LeBron would eat my lunch at 1-1 and probably to the tune of 15-0 (or whatever number we would go to under 22 or so). But could I score on him in 1,000 tries? Hell yeah, I have the athleticism, agility and intelligence to make myself a factor enough to score a point. I'd be virtually helpless on defense, even with all of the intelligent tactics I employ. He's just too big, too quick, too strong and too crafty. But LeBron wouldn't be the first player that was clearly superior to me that I scored on, though he'd be by far the best.

I'd have far more problems with Steph Curry. Curry would better neutralize many of the things about me that would give me any chance against LeBron, though I could actually post him up and maybe quickly move by him if he fell asleep. I'd have to respect his shot and if I fell for a fake, that's an easy layup or dunk as he blows by me.

[midnightpulp]

This is an underrated point, tbh... you're basically watching a sport where 70% of the time, or more, the "exciting" part doesn't happen. And this is every game on long ass games.

A poorball team that only makes 30% of the passes right, has 30% of the possession in a game, or shoots under 30% on goal is probably an absolutely terrible team, and a shit sandwich to watch.

You do get boring games in poorball too though, here or there, especially teams that dominate possession a lot like Barca, Spain or even Argentina when playing shitty teams, but on average, you just get a lot more action for your 90 mins.

With that said, I have no problem with beisbol fans, tbh, they enjoy the sport, they like to get into it and watch it, that's fine with me.

A batter who hits .300 doesn't strike out the other .70 percent of the time.

Plays like this wind up as outs and count against the batter's average:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18uwjw9egvr8ogif/ku-xlarge.gif

https://glovepop.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/alomar1.gif

https://glovepop.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/franco1.gif

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/3xgqeyz-imgur.gif?w=1000

Baseball teams also average about 5 runs per game each, so 10 runs per game total. The average goals scored per team in the EPL is 1.25, and 30% of the games wind up in ties.

Since you're the first sincere person in this debate, where is this "action" soccer fans talk about?

I consider "action events" that produce a likelihood of scoring (or a defense of an attempted score. Blocks/steals in basketball, tackles in football, outs in baseball). In basketball, for example, I don't consider Tony Parker dribbling the ball from the backcourt to the front court undefended "action," even though the ball is in play.

Soccer's action seems to be limited to:

- Shot attempts (EPL average: 30 per game [not per team]. And only 30% are on target)
- Corners (EPL average: 10 per game)
- Saves (6 per game)
- Tackles/Interceptions within 30 yards of the goal (and unless it's a tackle/interception in the box, these aren't very exciting. Interceptions aren't game changing events every time they happen like in the NFL, for example).

Looking at the stats, it seems play happens in the mid-field 50% of the time, and when I watch soccer, mid-field play usually goes like this: pass, pass, lost ball to other team, pass, pass, lost ball to other team, pass, pass, over pass, out of bounds, rinse/repeat until something breaks down. And I suppose this is what keeps soccer fans engaged, waiting for the "breakdown" to happen (just like I wait for the pitcher to "breakdown" and leave something fat).

I just don't get the "our sport is filled with action, action, action!" idea I hear from soccer fans. Compared to other goal sports like basketball and ice hockey, soccer is stuck in molasses. Even soccer fans admit it's boring and they're waiting, like addicts, for that one moment of brilliance that might not come today, tomorrow, next week, but it will come sometime (when I watched the Euro, I didn't see any brilliant moments, so waiting forever for it to happen makes sense).


So why do soccer fans do this? Assuming we follow sports for something like entertainment, what do we get out of a game for which the potential for tedium is so high that some of its most famous inspirational quotes are simply about not being dull?3

I keep thinking about this question lately, maybe because I’ve been finding myself drawn to more and more boring games.

But I think there’s more to the relationship of fans and boredom than just magic moments. I want you to like soccer if you don’t already, so I probably shouldn’t admit this. But the game gets in your head. Following soccer is like being in love with someone who’s (a) gorgeous, (b) fascinating, (c) possibly quite evil, and (d) only occasionally aware of your existence.5 There’s a continuous low-grade suffering that becomes a sort of addiction in its own right.6 You spend all your time hoping they’ll notice you

http://grantland.com/features/brian-phillips-soccer-boredom/

And no doubt the continuous nature of the game helps that doesn't involve commercials. I think if soccer were broken up into 4 22 minutes quarters, with coaches being allowed to call timeouts, the sport would be completely unwatchable.

[Caltex2]

I've said it a million times, relax offsides or eliminate it altogether.

[ElNono]

A batter who hits .300 doesn't strike out the other .70 percent of the time.

Plays like this wind up as outs and count against the batter's average:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18uwjw9egvr8ogif/ku-xlarge.gif

https://glovepop.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/alomar1.gif

https://glovepop.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/franco1.gif

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/3xgqeyz-imgur.gif?w=1000

Baseball teams also average about 5 runs per game each, so 10 runs per game total. The average goals scored per team in the EPL is 1.25, and 30% of the games wind up in ties.

Since you're the first sincere person in this debate, where is this "action" soccer fans talk about?

I consider "action events" that produce a likelihood of scoring (or a defense of an attempted score. Blocks/steals in basketball, tackles in football, outs in baseball). In basketball, for example, I don't consider Tony Parker dribbling the ball from the backcourt to the front court undefended "action," even though the ball is in play.

Soccer's action seems to be limited to:

- Shot attempts (EPL average: 30 per game [not per team]. And only 30% are on target)
- Corners (EPL average: 10 per game)
- Saves (6 per game)
- Tackles/Interceptions within 30 yards of the goal (and unless it's a tackle/interception in the box, these aren't very exciting. Interceptions aren't game changing events every time they happen like in the NFL, for example).

Looking at the stats, it seems play happens in the mid-field 50% of the time, and when I watch soccer, mid-field play usually goes like this: pass, pass, lost ball to other team, pass, pass, lost ball to other team, pass, pass, over pass, out of bounds, rinse/repeat until something breaks down. And I suppose this is what keeps soccer fans engaged, waiting for the "breakdown" to happen (just like I wait for the pitcher to "breakdown" and leave something fat).

I just don't get the "our sport is filled with action, action, action!" idea I hear from soccer fans. Compared to other goal sports like basketball and ice hockey, soccer is stuck in molasses. Even soccer fans admit it's boring and they're waiting, like addicts, for that one moment of brilliance that might not come today, tomorrow, next week, but it will come sometime (when I watched the Euro, I didn't see any brilliant moments, so waiting forever for it to happen makes sense).



http://grantland.com/features/brian-phillips-soccer-boredom/

And no doubt the continuous nature of the game helps that doesn't involve commercials. I think if soccer were broken up into 4 22 minutes quarters, with coaches being allowed to call timeouts, the sport would be completely unwatchable.

Not hating at all, tbh... and I'm not even claiming the game is filled with "action, action, action"... comparatively with basketball, for example, I can completely see the argument that it can be an snorefest.

Which teams you're watching also go a long way in soccer. Top teams are closer to 50% ratio on shots vs shots on goal (at least in La Liga, which is probably the top league in the world at the moment). And then, within those teams, you can have snoorefests too because sometimes they're so dominant and possessive with the ball. It turns into a monologue, which can be completely boring.

But overall the sport, in it's purest form, I feel, when you watch leagues from all over, lends itself generally to substantially more action than baseball. Corner kicks, through balls, even what counts as shots not on target could be a header 10 feet from goal, and that in itself is exciting until you get depressed with the result. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the "ceiling" for the sport is much higher action-wise, even though, due to defensive tactical shenanigans, can be a chore sometimes to watch (something that's closer to recent times, and why FIFA has been changing rules). We're talking game design, and possibly challenge-level. I actually think what probably goes against baseball the most is that it's extremely challenging, at least the batting part. That's why what you would consider low percentages in anything else are indeed stellar. I'm not going to use that to knock baseball, but it undoubtedly plays a role in the argument I was making.

Lastly, and this is not a knock on you or your argument, but the EPL is the WNBA of soccer, tbh... you can actually read my posts over the last few years on the Soccer forum, and you'll see this is not some new opinion from me. Their league and national team truly are an embarrassment to soccer. Like I said, not your fault, and they're a soccer league after all, so it's not a knock on you or your argument, but frankly, it's certainly a black eye on soccer, IMO.

[Killakobe81]

http://i.giphy.com/5YF9dwGZ29rVe.gif

Lebron would snatch the soul outta your body on the first possession, you are living in a fantasy world. You might actually die on the court...15-4? :lmao

There was no average Joe beating LeBron 1 on 1, thats just ficiton. There was the video of Jordan Crawford (who played in NBA) 'dunking on' LeBron in a scrimmage team game.

Lebron is destroying pretty much anyone on spurstalk. And every college player drafted this year.
Be Simmons has size and speed in the ballpark of JAmes and he might beat him 15-4.
I dont think anyone here could score more than a couple fluke baskets on Lebron.
When he wants to defend he is lockdown ...

And on offense he would put everyone on this forum in the hospital or dominate even the small school college ballplayers that post here.

[Killakobe81]

i think sean higgins used to post here. He was one of the better HS players I ever saw live (talent not production) and he has no shot at James 1 on 1.

Dude was like 6 foot 8 with range.

LeBron would ether him.

[midnightpulp]

Not hating at all, tbh... and I'm not even claiming the game is filled with "action, action, action"... comparatively with basketball, for example, I can completely see the argument that it can be an snorefest.

Which teams you're watching also go a long way in soccer. Top teams are closer to 50% ratio on shots vs shots on goal (at least in La Liga, which is probably the top league in the world at the moment). And then, within those teams, you can have snoorefests too because sometimes they're so dominant and possessive with the ball. It turns into a monologue, which can be completely boring.

But overall the sport, in it's purest form, I feel, when you watch leagues from all over, lends itself generally to substantially more action than baseball. Corner kicks, through balls, even what counts as shots not on target could be a header 10 feet from goal, and that in itself is exciting until you get depressed with the result. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the "ceiling" for the sport is much higher action-wise, even though, due to defensive tactical shenanigans, can be a chore sometimes to watch (something that's closer to recent times, and why FIFA has been changing rules). We're talking game design, and possibly challenge-level. I actually think what probably goes against baseball the most is that it's extremely challenging, at least the batting part. That's why what you would consider low percentages in anything else are indeed stellar. I'm not going to use that to knock baseball, but it undoubtedly plays a role in the argument I was making.

Lastly, and this is not a knock on you or your argument, but the EPL is the WNBA of soccer, tbh... you can actually read my posts over the last few years on the Soccer forum, and you'll see this is not some new opinion from me. Their league and national team truly are an embarrassment to soccer. Like I said, not your fault, and they're a soccer league after all, so it's not a knock on you or your argument, but frankly, it's certainly a black eye on soccer, IMO.

Thanks for the thought reply. :tu

And I agree that goal sports played on a field or court have a greater "action/per minute" ratio than bat-and-ball sports like baseball and cricket, especially action that consists of players "doing stuff" like running, jumping, dribbling, etc.

But I don't watch baseball for that kind of action, even though incredible athletic feats do happen every game (a home run is just as impressive an athletic feat as a dunk, for example). I have basketball and sometimes football and hockey for that. I watch it for the tension.

And yes, other sports have tension, but baseball, imo, takes the cake here. In other sports, teams can only do so much damage when they have possession. Most a basketball team can score is 4 points (made 3 + foul), NFL team 8 points, hockey/soccer one goal.

A baseball inning is unpredictable, and it's mathematically possible to score an infinite amount of runs in an inning because there's no clock (this is not obviously going to happen, but it demonstrates the scoring variation possible), so every inning, feels kind of like "crunch time," because a team can score a deluge of runs in one inning to "seemingly" put the game away and/or come back from huge deficits, at any time.

All clock based sports have a point where it's mathematically "impossible" to win. Baseball doesn't, which is unique and why it sits well next to "fast sports" like basketball, hockey, and even soccer.

[apalisoc_9]

To be fair to baseball, Id rather watch it over handegg...never ending commercials. How do americans even enjoy that shit.? :lmao

[midnightpulp]

To be fair to baseball, Id rather watch it over handegg...never ending commercials. How do americans even enjoy that shit.? :lmao

It's gotten sickening to the point where it's made me more of a casual NFL fan these days when I use to be a hardcore fan. Not to mention all the penalties in a single game.

And I'm not going to "buy" Redzone to deal with that problem.

[Arcadian]

Lebron is destroying pretty much anyone on spurstalk. And every college player drafted this year.
Be Simmons has size and speed in the ballpark of JAmes and he might beat him 15-4.
I dont think anyone here could score more than a couple fluke baskets on Lebron.
When he wants to defend he is lockdown ...

And on offense he would put everyone on this forum in the hospital or dominate even the small school college ballplayers that post here.

The thing is, if Lebron played 1v1 against any non-NBA player, he obviously wouldn't go at 100% intensity. Somebody might be able to score a point or two because he would let them. He wouldn't want to be a complete dick. But if he actually played at max NBA Finals level (which would be hilarious), any challenger would be left mangled and crying on the ground. :lol

[Arcadian]

All clock based sports have a point where it's mathematically "impossible" to win. Baseball doesn't, which is unique and why it sits well next to "fast sports" like basketball, hockey, and even soccer.

How common are comebacks from large deficits in MLB? (Like the equivalent of an NBA team coming back from 20 down or something.)

Of course it's technically never impossible to come back from any deficit in a clockless sport, but how often does it actually happen?

[midnightpulp]

How common are comebacks from large deficits in MLB? (Like the equivalent of an NBA team coming back from 20 down or something.)

Of course it's technically never impossible to come back from any deficit in a clockless sport, but how often does it actually happen?

It's hard to relate baseball scoring to basketball scoring because win probabilities change depending on who is pitching and who's due up to bat. As a team attempts to comeback in the NBA, the team's best players will be on the court 100% of the time.

In baseball, the team's best hitter might not even get a chance to bat. I would say a one run deficit in the 9th with the bottom of the order coming up against a shut-down closer is equivalent to a 15 point 4th quarter lead with like 10 minutes to play.

In a vacuum, though, A 4 run lead is probably like a 20 point lead.

See here. A first inning 4 run lead for the visiting team has about a 83% of holding up.

http://gregstoll.dyndns.org/~gregstoll/baseball/stats.html#V.-3.1.0.1

A first quarter 19 point lead holds up a similar amount of the time.

http://stats.inpredictable.com/nba/wpCalc.php

How often? Unsure. They seem to happen at least a few times every post season and a lot throughout the regular season.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoM_k83fAoo

Astros has a 97% win probability (in a vacuum, of course).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhNoQDIqDlU

The calculator tells me a win prob of 100% ^^^:lol

But I've seen rallies like that a few times, once against my Dodgers where they blew a 9 run 9th inning lead.

[ElNono]

Thanks for the thought reply. :tu

And I agree that goal sports played on a field or court have a greater "action/per minute" ratio than bat-and-ball sports like baseball and cricket, especially action that consists of players "doing stuff" like running, jumping, dribbling, etc.

But I don't watch baseball for that kind of action, even though incredible athletic feats do happen every game (a home run is just as impressive an athletic feat as a dunk, for example). I have basketball and sometimes football and hockey for that. I watch it for the tension.

And yes, other sports have tension, but baseball, imo, takes the cake here. In other sports, teams can only do so much damage when they have possession. Most a basketball team can score is 4 points (made 3 + foul), NFL team 8 points, hockey/soccer one goal.

A baseball inning is unpredictable, and it's mathematically possible to score an infinite amount of runs in an inning because there's no clock (this is not obviously going to happen, but it demonstrates the scoring variation possible), so every inning, feels kind of like "crunch time," because a team can score a deluge of runs in one inning to "seemingly" put the game away and/or come back from huge deficits, at any time.

All clock based sports have a point where it's mathematically "impossible" to win. Baseball doesn't, which is unique and why it sits well next to "fast sports" like basketball, hockey, and even soccer.

I tried to get into baseball back in the day when I set foot here into the US, and would've been easy to bandwagon, since the Yankees were winning everything all the time, and I'm here in NJ... just couldn't get into it. Same thing with eggball... although eggball I can enjoy here or there (if I can skip the commercials). Fandom has a lot to do with this stuff too, tbh...

[resistanze]

:lol Forgot about Dickey. If the knuckler isn't working, it's a 75mph grapefruit.

Off topic, but what's your take on Bonds tbh? Honestly that was one of the funniest eras in baseball for me personally, before the hindsight, retroactive sanctimony that people apparently didn't have at the time. He was arguably the greatest player of his generation before the alleged used even began.

[midnightpulp]

Off topic, but what's your take on Bonds tbh? Honestly that was one of the funniest eras in baseball for me personally, before the hindsight, retroactive sanctimony that people apparently didn't have at the time. He was arguably the greatest player of his generation before the alleged used even began.

Can't stand him, since he's a Giant, but he's the greatest hitter maybe ever. He was a great hitter before the roids and the best hitter in the roid era in which much of his competition were on roids too, so I can't discount his accomplishments.

He was a force of nature. You literally could not pitch to him.

[midnightpulp]

I tried to get into baseball back in the day when I set foot here into the US, and would've been easy to bandwagon, since the Yankees were winning everything all the time, and I'm here in NJ... just couldn't get into it. Same thing with eggball... although eggball I can enjoy here or there (if I can skip the commercials). Fandom has a lot to do with this stuff too, tbh...

Yeah. Baseball is a tough sell to sports fans who like motion and teamwork (there's "passing" in baseball, but a fielder "passing" the ball to another fielder to get a runner out isn't as visually exciting as a string of soccer passes or basketball passes that thread the needle. I do think a moonshot homer is the most aesthetically pleasing singular event in sports, though. Crack of the bat, ball soaring 100 feet high against a night sky).

But as much fun as these debates are, baseball shouldn't even be compared to a goal sport. Two dramatically different game designs.

[Splits]

Tension!

http://m.mlb.com/video/v978697183/arimil-lucroy-cant-stop-tapping-his-shoulder

[Thread]

Yeah. Baseball is a tough sell to sports fans who like motion and teamwork (there's "passing" in baseball, but a fielder "passing" the ball to another fielder to get a runner out isn't as visually exciting as a string of soccer passes or basketball passes that thread the needle. I do think a moonshot homer is the most aesthetically pleasing singular event in sports, though. Crack of the bat, ball soaring 100 feet high against a night sky).

But as much fun as these debates are, baseball shouldn't even be compared to a goal sport. Two dramatically different game designs.

Yep, those homers by Jackson in the '77 WS against that nite sky remain.

---

Seager hit one about a month ago one nite in Atlanta. The place was a like a tomb when he connected so you got the full worth of the impact. Just a savage rip, and the crowd responded with an audible gasp that was impressive.

[140]

Tension!

http://m.mlb.com/video/v978697183/arimil-lucroy-cant-stop-tapping-his-shoulder
:lmao

[DAF86]

Tension!

http://m.mlb.com/video/v978697183/arimil-lucroy-cant-stop-tapping-his-shoulder

That a baseball broadcast has the time to, and the need of, do/ing this on a game to keep the audience engaged says a lot, tbh.

[Splits]

The place was a like a tomb

Good analogy. Attending a fatbol game is about as eventful as visiting a cemetery.

[Splits]

That a baseball broadcast has the time to, and the need of, do/ing this on a game to keep the audience engaged says a lot, tbh.

1min 8sec to watch a ball and a foul tip :lmao That's 3 possessions in a b-ball game

TENSION!

[midnightpulp]

Tension!

http://m.mlb.com/video/v978697183/arimil-lucroy-cant-stop-tapping-his-shoulder

Literally SNORED during a game, with the "exciting" Cristiano Ronaldo playing. :lmao


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wJ7gNUAAKQ

"Soccer has a set approximate end time. I like that."

Yeah. Who wants to endure torture for any longer than you have to?

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/69752902.jpg

[Caltex2]

Lebron is destroying pretty much anyone on spurstalk. And every college player drafted this year.
Be Simmons has size and speed in the ballpark of JAmes and he might beat him 15-4.
I dont think anyone here could score more than a couple fluke baskets on Lebron.
When he wants to defend he is lockdown ...

And on offense he would put everyone on this forum in the hospital or dominate even the small school college ballplayers that post here.

The argument was that no one could score on Lebron given 1,000 tries. That's hogwash, I could score on him every now and again. Could I beat him in a game above 1 or maybe 2-0? Hell no.

[DMC]

Can't think of any other sport that just inovles being fat and having strong arms.

Why do they even need coaches?
A sport where Dwight Howard and D'Andre Jordan can make 100 million dollars each while neither can hit a free throw that a 5th grader could hit, that's the least demanding. just be born tall and dumb.

[Splits]

I'm on the football side vs. fatbol, but this is funny.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Conk0aZVUAAPO6L.jpg

[lefty]

Tension!

http://m.mlb.com/video/v978697183/arimil-lucroy-cant-stop-tapping-his-shoulder

:rollin

[lefty]

To be fair to baseball, Id rather watch it over handegg...never ending commercials. How do americans even enjoy that shit.? :lmao
:lol NFL
:lol 6 minutes of actual plays
:lol 3 hour broadcasts

:lol commercials with football breaks

[140]

:lol NFL
:lol 6 minutes of actual plays
:lol 3 hour broadcasts

:lol commercials with football breaks
:lmao

[poeticism707]

:lol NFL
:lol 6 minutes of actual plays
:lol 3 hour broadcasts

:lol commercials with football breaks

:rollin :rollin :rollin

[Ball Buster]

:lol NFL
:lol 6 minutes of actual plays
:lol 3 hour broadcasts

:lol commercials with football breaks
:lol Still beats greased naked Algerian boy wrestling

[DMC]

:lol NFL
:lol 6 minutes of actual plays
:lol 3 hour broadcasts

:lol commercials with football breaks

Best thing about their championship game is the commercials.

[Brazil]

Best thing about their championship game is the commercials.

:lol and the half time show

[DMC]

:lol and the half time show
Or basically anything but the actual game.

[lefty]

And most of those commercials have to feature cameos of NFL players :or be football related :lol

[Caltex2]

I haven't seen a single goal in a men's game of synchronized kickball hockey yet today. Not one...and freaking Brazil is playing at home.

[Splits]

^ there have been 2 matches played.

Honduras beat lefty 's 3-2

[Caltex2]

I didn't see the Honduras game.

I saw Brasil/RSoAf and Iraq versus the Danish. So far 30 minutes in, give or take, 0 goals between Portugal and Argentina.

[140]

I didn't see the Honduras game.

I saw Brasil/RSoAf and Iraq versus the Danish. So far 30 minutes in, give or take, 0 goals between Portugal and Argentina.
this faggot managed to watch the only two scoreless games in a day that featured two 8+ goal games, three 4+ goal games and a 2-0 :lmao

[midnightpulp]

this faggot managed to watch the only two scoreless games in a day that featured two 8+ goal games, three 4+ goal games and a 2-0 :lmao

That's 2 too many, and on top of that, there were 4 ties out the 8 games played today :lmao

Par for the course for floppytrot. Scoreless games and ties :tu

But it's cheap to play and they run around or something.

[Splits]

In a list of the best places (http://philly.curbed.com/maps/pokemon-go-philly-where-to-play) in Philadelphia to find Pokemon in Pokemon Go -- you know, the second most popular game this summer after Shirseymon Go (http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2016/07/13/189446878/shirseymon-go-was-the-hottest-game-at-asg) -- Citizens Bank Park was conspicuously absent. So, during the Phillies' 2-1 loss (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2016_07_19_miamlb_phimlb_1#game=2016 _07_19_miamlb_phimlb_1,game_state=Wrapup) to the Marlins on Tuesday, the Phanatic set out to prove that CBP is just as filled with those desirable pocket monsters as Independence Hall.

Only the Phanatic … well, he isn't so great at this Pokemon Go thing:

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2/3/6/190536236/071916_phi_phanatic_pikachu_med_79p2osr5.gif

He had a giant Pikachu right in front of him, taunting him, and the Phanatic couldn't gather his wits to snag him inside a Pokeball. Instead, he walked straight into an umpire.

Well, he's definitely playing Pokemon Go (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/15/pokemon-go-players-rescued-after-getting-lost-in-wiltshire-caves).

http://mlb.mlb.com/assets/images/5/7/2/190576572/cuts/Pikachu_435sh9wn_94ly8cks.jpg

[DMC]

I was near Camden Yards a couple weeks ago having lunch with a customer and when she said "baseball" I said "fatball" and she said "huh?"

You fuckers.

[Splits]

I was near Camden Yards a couple weeks ago having lunch with a customer and when she said "baseball" I said "fatball" and she said "huh?"

You fuckers.

Their relief pitcher Vance Worley is 6'2" 250 and their fatass DH Pedro Alvarez is 6'3" 250.

So yeah, the Fatlimore Orioles.

[Kidd K]

Yeah, I'm not reading all that. Much less knowing that its goal is to try to sell me the idea that baseball is, somehow, a tactically complex sport. :lol

You did read it. Don't front. At the very least you started reading it then got intimidated by the logic and facts and shut your brain off.

You simply have no legitimate reply so you're playing the gay "loldidntread" card. . .which means nothing more than you admitting you have no argument.

Midnightpulp shit on you guys here tbh.

[Kidd K]

You have a noodle arm or something? Throwing a baseball hard isn't difficult. As far as accuracy, the average first baseman is over 6 ft tall with a pretty large wingspan so it's not like I'd be throwing into a small pocket. I'm obviously not saying I could field anywhere near as well as an MLB shortstop....but as far as just the throw itself goes I'd easily hit a .950 rate tbh.

Yeah, throwing nobody out ever due to taking your time to make sure you never risked throwing the ball away after fielding like shit?

If you're just standing there and casually throwing to the base it's not hard. . .but if you're playing SS and have to rush to your right to field a ground ball and only have a tiny window to fire off an accurate hard throw on target. . .95%? Bullshit. Only if all your throws don't get there in time because you took too long to get the throw off to make sure it's accurate.

In which case you have failed before the ball even left your hand.

Throwing a ball: Not hard. Just like shooting a basketball or throwing a football isn't hard. Making a proper throw or shot in a pro game with everything going on? Yeah that is hard.

[140]

That's 2 too many
for an ADD-ridden brain, maybe :lol


and on top of that, there were 4 ties out the 8 games played today :lmao
I've never seen someone struggle this hard with the concept of a tie, tbh...I guess a game having three possible outcomes instead of two is just too much for fatball fans simpleton minds to fathom :lol

[Caltex2]

Who can't understand it's boring to watch a scoreless tie? Even when football games tie, 9/10 they don't tie without some scoring. And instead of settling it on a field goal kicking contest, they just let it tie. At the lower levels they still play real football until there's a winner.

[DAF86]

You did read it. Don't front. At the very least you started reading it then got intimidated by the logic and facts and shut your brain off.

You simply have no legitimate reply so you're playing the gay "loldidntread" card. . .which means nothing more than you admitting you have no argument.

Midnightpulp shit on you guys here tbh.

I started reading it and after seeing that it was the same bullshit that I have already shit on many times I got bored. Baseball is just a matchup between a guy pitching and a guy trying to get lucky by getting a hit 1 out of 3 times to be considered "elite". This game is just too limited and static to have any kind of important level of complexity. There's just not enough variables to be had.

[Caltex2]

Playing baseball or soccer is fun but both are boring to watch, as is golf. Tennis is okay when the level of play is high but not with average players.

[FkLA]

Yeah, throwing nobody out ever due to taking your time to make sure you never risked throwing the ball away after fielding like shit?

If you're just standing there and casually throwing to the base it's not hard. . .but if you're playing SS and have to rush to your right to field a ground ball and only have a tiny window to fire off an accurate hard throw on target. . .95%? Bullshit. Only if all your throws don't get there in time because you took too long to get the throw off to make sure it's accurate.

In which case you have failed before the ball even left your hand.

Throwing a ball: Not hard. Just like shooting a basketball or throwing a football isn't hard. Making a proper throw or shot in a pro game with everything going on? Yeah that is hard.

According to mid it is hard though. Apparently there's some complex beauty behind the simple act of throwing a baseball that prevents the average joe like me from making those throws. Another example of him trying to overcomplicate an otherwise slow, boring game imo.

Btw Im nowhere close to fielding as well as a MLF shortstop but I could probably field some routine ground balls. So could a lot of average people who aren't uncoordinated tbh.

[Splits]

According to mid it is hard though. Apparently there's some complex beauty behind the simple act of throwing a baseball that prevents the average joe like me from making those throws. Another example of him trying to overcomplicate an otherwise slow, boring game imo.

Btw Im nowhere close to fielding as well as a MLF shortstop but I could probably field some routine ground balls. So could a lot of average people who aren't uncoordinated tbh.

:lol

[FkLA]

I started reading it and after seeing that it was the same bullshit that I have already shit on many times I got bored. Baseball is just a matchup between a guy pitching and a guy trying to get lucky by getting a hit 1 out of 3 times to be considered "elite". This game is just too limited and static to have any kind of important level of complexity. There's just not enough variables to be had.

but but

:cry the double switch :cry
:cry shifting 'defenses' a couple of feet (the most exercise most of them get all game) :cry
:cry the laces on the ball :cry
:cry the angle of the pitcher's arm :cry
:cry the art of chewing sunflower seeds while sitting in the dugout :cry
:cry the art of the rally hat :cry

[lefty]

but but

:cry the double switch :cry
:cry shifting 'defenses' a couple of feet (the most exercise most of them get all game) :cry
:cry the laces on the ball :cry
:cry the angle of the pitcher's arm :cry
:cry the art of chewing sunflower seeds while sitting in the dugout :cry
:cry the art of the rally hat :cry

:lmao

[AlexJones]

:cry the art of the rally hat :cry
The fanboy moron Pelicans78 probably believes in this tbh

[chunticakes]

555228216336850944

What midnightpulp thinks they look like :lol

[spurraider21]

just went back and read that mid called a QB reading defense a guessing game? :lol... is that why the same qb's are successful over decades because they're masterful at reading defenses?

thats like saying poker is all luck even though you see the same faces on final tables year after year

[spurraider21]

:lmao crowd getting thrilled at nothing happening


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9EiIbUg0pI

[midnightpulp]

for an ADD-ridden brain, maybe :lol


I've never seen someone struggle this hard with the concept of a tie, tbh...I guess a game having three possible outcomes instead of two is just too much for fatball fans simpleton minds to fathom :lol

:lol It's funny you criticize me for being ADD when I'm the one defending baseball.

My problem with floppytrot isn't necessarily non-scoring. It's with its outdated design, high luck factor, and Mario Party.

"But they run around so it's good!"

And the point of sports is to declare to winner. Ties are against competitive spirit.

[midnightpulp]

just went back and read that mid called a QB reading defense a guessing game? :lol... is that why the same qb's are successful over decades because they're masterful at reading defenses?

thats like saying poker is all luck even though you see the same faces on final tables year after year

Yeah, QBs never guess, that is why they never get sacked, throw interceptions, throw the ball away, or are otherwise baited into doing something stupid.

Pre-Snap reads are guessing games (i.e. "We know from film the defense blitzes 70% of the time here..."). For a supposed foooobaw junkie, you don't really know much about the sport.

Can they adjust post snap? Sure. But it's much harder to do if your initial pre-snap read was dead wrong and if your offensive line doesn't give you and the offense enough time to adjust. Many times, "scrambling plays" are plays the defense locked up (by "guessing" correctly), but the QB/O-Line created enough time for the receivers to beat their defenders (any great receiver will eventually get open).

[lefty]

:lmao crowd getting thrilled at nothing happening


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9EiIbUg0pI

:rollin

[midnightpulp]

According to mid it is hard though. Apparently there's some complex beauty behind the simple act of throwing a baseball that prevents the average joe like me from making those throws. Another example of him trying to overcomplicate an otherwise slow, boring game imo.

Btw Im nowhere close to fielding as well as a MLF shortstop but I could probably field some routine ground balls. So could a lot of average people who aren't uncoordinated tbh.

It is hard.

Sure, making the throw is "easy" if all you have to do is lob it over to the 1st baseman at 40-60mph. But once you start cranking up the velocity, your accuracy will tank. Maintaining a .950 fielding percentage will require many throws to be in the 80-90mph range. You can't throw that hard with accuracy from 110 feet.

Russell Wilson threw out a first pitch not too long ago. And he was "try hard" in his effort. Speed? 75mph.

Baseball isn't overly complicated. No sports really are, even football. Sports are firstly about athleticism and skill.

I'm just arguing against the idea that baseball has no strategy and tactics (terms the soccer crew has trouble understanding, as well). Baseball is very long on strategy, much deeper than basketball in fact.

Tactically, it's less diverse than a goal sport with regard to improvising into secondary, tertiary, etc choices, but the execution of said tactics have to be performed with a much greater attention to detail and precision than many other team ball sports because chances are limited (A basketball star going 0-4 will get 15-25 more "chances" to produce. A baseball hitter is typically done after 4 offensive chances. Miss a tackle? Not usually that big of a deal. NFL teams miss about 8 tackles per game on average (not to mention blown coverages and the like). A baseball team committing 8 errors per game would be toast. Basketball star shooting 50%? Great. NFL QB completing 65% of his passes? Great. Pitchers need to have about a 70%/30% ratio of getting batters out-to-allowing baserunners to be considered "good.")

Really, what the baseball hater's argument boils down to is that it's not like a goal sport, with a bunch "moving around." Fair enough. Everyone has their own aesthetic preferences, but the other arguments ITT are just laughably stupid.

[midnightpulp]

:lmao crowd getting thrilled at nothing happening


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9EiIbUg0pI

Clutch.

And WAYYYY harder to do than running through a truck wide hole the fatasses on the line created for you.

[midnightpulp]

I started reading it and after seeing that it was the same bullshit that I have already shit on many times I got bored. Baseball is just a matchup between a guy pitching and a guy trying to get lucky by getting a hit 1 out of 3 times to be considered "elite". This game is just too limited and static to have any kind of important level of complexity. There's just not enough variables to be had.

Basketball is shallower than baseball. Strategically, baseball makes basketball look like a joke. And tactically, you can get away with more one note tactics in basketball than you can in baseball.

"They move around and there's plays and stuff, so it must be 'complex.' "

Just stick to your goal sports, you're out of your element here.

[midnightpulp]

555228216336850944

What midnightpulp thinks they look like :lol

The girls are right.

http://starcasm.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Paige-Brendl-and-Brett-Lawrie.jpg

[Pelicans78]

The fanboy moron Pelicans78 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=15164) probably believes in this tbh

Wow I'm still living rent-free in your head. You can't go one day without mentioning me. If I blow you a kiss, will you feel better?

[spurraider21]

Yeah, QBs never guess, that is why they never get sacked, throw interceptions, throw the ball away, or are otherwise baited into doing something stupid.

Pre-Snap reads are guessing games (i.e. "We know from film the defense blitzes 70% of the time here..."). For a supposed foooobaw junkie, you don't really know much about the sport.

Can they adjust post snap? Sure. But it's much harder to do if your initial pre-snap read was dead wrong and if your offensive line doesn't give you and the offense enough time to adjust. Many times, "scrambling plays" are plays the defense locked up (by "guessing" correctly), but the QB/O-Line created enough time for the receivers to beat their defenders (any great receiver will eventually get open).
thats retarded

then just call what batters at the plate do "guessing" too. i mean they can study the pitchers tendencies and then guess

[DAF86]

Basketball is shallower than baseball. Strategically, baseball makes basketball look like a joke. And tactically, you can get away with more one note tactics in basketball than you can in baseball.

"They move around and there's plays and stuff, so it must be 'complex.' "

Just stick to your goal sports, you're out of your element here.

You can repeat that shit as many times as you want but it won't make it right son. :lol

[midnightpulp]

You can repeat that shit as many times as you want but it won't make it right son. :lol

You can repeat your lazy handwaving all you want but it doesn't give you a convincing counterargument.

Spurs won 4 titles with one play built around one player with a roster build that was practically the same every year.

"It's deep, guys. They run plays and there's match ups and stuff!" :lol

[Thread]

You can repeat your lazy handwaving all you want but it doesn't give you a convincing counterargument.

Spurs won 4 titles with one play built around one player with a roster build that was practically the same every year.

"It's deep, guys. They run plays and there's match ups and stuff!" :lol

You could never repeat though, Midst. You were on the precipice of a triple deep into the corner, but, Tim & Amy---Amy & Tim couldn't hold that marriage together. She took a Louisville Slugger to him in the Midst of the '13 Finals and alas The Duncans, they could not do what the Bryants did:::grab a load of jacks, timbers,,,then shoulder-to-shoulder start on back down.

- Pap

[midnightpulp]

thats retarded

then just call what batters at the plate do "guessing" too. i mean they can study the pitchers tendencies and then guess

Any sport or game in which information can be kept "hidden" from your opponent (they call these games of imperfect information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_information) will naturally have a guessing game dynamic to gameplay.

This dynamic exists in Baseball and Football the most since there are static pauses between action (pre-pitch/pre-snap). "Guessing" does not imply luck based. The best coaches and players in each sport maximize their probabilities of guessing right through intensive scouting, film study, and player analysis. They also maximize their chances of always "guessing right" by working on their weaknesses (i.e. a QB will work on the quickness of his release to deal with instances of surprise blitzes).

This is also why I think Baseball and Football are deeper strategically than "flow" sports like Basketball and Soccer. Intimate knowledge of specific situations is a lot more important to have in Baseball and Football than other sports, because there's not enough time to "improvise" from wrong guesses into something that works (NFL teams want the QB dropback-to-pass time to be under 3 seconds, and elite QBs typically get rid of the ball in under 2 seconds a good majority of the time. And runs plays, when the defense guesses right, are often stuffed more often than not. Basketball gives an offense a full 24 seconds to execute, and soccer is unlimited).

What's that translate into? Knowing your opponent inside and out. And film study and scouting are the strategic side of sports (the soccer crew still confuses strategy and tactics).


Pop: One of the assistants will tell me something. I believe whatever they tell me. So if they say, ‘We’re going to do this on the pick-and-roll.’ And I say, ‘Okay.’ Or, ‘I dunno if I want to do that.’ And then, you go play. I mean, have you seen a secret play lately? Or a new pick-and-roll defense? Or some new amazing continuity offense that nobody can guard? It’s the same stuff every day. Whoever executes the best, whoever is the most competitive, and does both on a consistent basis for more of the 48, that’s the team that wins.

That fact is true in every sport, but I think in the "flow" sports execution is more important than being strategically sophisticated. Teams couldn't stop 4 down, even when they knew it was coming and what was coming after the double-teams, and they still couldn't stop it because of how crisply executed it all was.

And I'm not arguing against simplicity. It often works better than overly complicating things.

[midnightpulp]

You could never repeat though, Midst. You were on the precipice of a triple deep into the corner, but, Tim & Amy---Amy & Tim couldn't hold that marriage together. She took a Louisville Slugger to him in the Midst of the '13 Finals and alas The Duncans, they could not do what the Bryants did:::grab a load of jacks, timbers,,,then shoulder-to-shoulder start on back down.

- Pap

Repeats are without merit. You don't get your ring size measured for 'em, thus I don't do 'em.

The count. That is all.

Duncan: 5

Kirby: 5

[Thread]

Repeats are without merit. You don't get your ring size measured for 'em, thus I don't do 'em.

The count. That is all.

Duncan: 5

Kirby: 5

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 2nd 5th

[illusioNtEk]

688579760834752512



http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/walkingdead/images/a/a1/Shane_Walsh_(TV)_8.png/revision/latest?cb=20111222151450

[FkLA]

It is hard.

Sure, making the throw is "easy" if all you have to do is lob it over to the 1st baseman at 40-60mph. But once you start cranking up the velocity, your accuracy will tank. Maintaining a .950 fielding percentage will require many throws to be in the 80-90mph range. You can't throw that hard with accuracy from 110 feet.

Russell Wilson threw out a first pitch not too long ago. And he was "try hard" in his effort. Speed? 75mph.

First off, let's eliminate this notion that you have to throw super hard to get all MLF players out. Or even the majority of them. We both know a lot of them are overweight and not exactly speedsters. We also both know fatball players are notorious for not running hard to first during routine ground balls. Yet another over exaggeration on your part to try to paint fatball in a positive light imo.

On to your other point. Are you saying I can't hit 80 mph? I honestly don't know. I know I was clocked in the mid 60s at a Missions game booth when I was like 13 or so. I'm not sure how much stronger my arm has gotten now that I'm a grown ass nigga. If I can hit 80 I can make those throws though. It's really not a small pocket. First baseman are huge and it's not rare to see them stretch out on a throw or scoop a ball off a bounce. Again, you're over exaggerating the difficulty of it.


Baseball isn't overly complicated. No sports really are, even football. Sports are firstly about athleticism and skill.

Fatball is less dependent on athleticism than any other major sport, In no other sport will you ever see 40 year old, obese men be above average players like you do in fatball:

http://yawkeywayreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/david-ortiz-1.jpg https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKkXaXvRDt8AkX-2VKbPzlxYpRCBWl7TBXKZJOiwtSrqs_LzF7


I'm just arguing against the idea that baseball has no strategy and tactics (terms the soccer crew has trouble understanding, as well). Baseball is very long on strategy, much deeper than basketball in fact.

Tactically, it's less diverse than a goal sport with regard to improvising into secondary, tertiary, etc choices, but the execution of said tactics have to be performed with a much greater attention to detail and precision than many other team ball sports because chances are limited (A basketball star going 0-4 will get 15-25 more "chances" to produce. A baseball hitter is typically done after 4 offensive chances. Miss a tackle? Not usually that big of a deal. NFL teams miss about 8 tackles per game on average (not to mention blown coverages and the like). A baseball team committing 8 errors per game would be toast. Basketball star shooting 50%? Great. NFL QB completing 65% of his passes? Great. Pitchers need to have about a 70%/30% ratio of getting batters out-to-allowing baserunners to be considered "good.")

Really, what the baseball hater's argument boils down to is that it's not like a goal sport, with a bunch "moving around." Fair enough. Everyone has their own aesthetic preferences, but the other arguments ITT are just laughably stupid.

I don't think simple acts like hitting, tackling, or shooting are considered tactics. That'd be like considering the simple act of shooting a gun a military tactic. The double switch, pitcher/batter match-ups, shifting a defense are more related to tactics imo. All of which are ridiculously simple and made even easier by the fact that fatball is such a static sport btw.

My main issue with fatball is that the game itself is not physically demanding at all. That should be a requirement to be called a sport imo. It's the same reason why I have a problem with people calling golf, where fat asses roam as well, a sport. I know there's some great athletes in MLF but how often do they use those physical gifts? On average, they get 4 at bats and field maybe what 4-5 plays a game? Then even if you manage to get on base, there's no stamina involved in baserunning given the fact that it's such a static sport. The rest of the time they're sitting in the dugout eating sunflower seeds or standing around on defense. And don't even get me started on the DH position where the extent of those fat fucks' exercise during an actual game is to walk from the dugout to home plate a couple of times. :lol

In futbol, even during a 0-0 tie, you can see a player's elite speed, dribbling, touch, defense, etc all the time. The same goes for any other real sport.

[midnightpulp]

First off, let's eliminate this notion that you have to throw super hard to get all MLF players out. Or even the majority of them. We both know a lot of them are overweight and not exactly speedsters. We also both know fatball players are notorious for not running hard to first during routine ground balls. Yet another over exaggeration on your part to try to paint fatball in a positive light imo.

To maintain a .950 fielding percentage, you bet your ass you're going to have make hard throws regularly. Not just occasionally.


On to your other point. Are you saying I can't hit 80 mph? I honestly don't know. I know I was clocked in the mid 60s at a Missions game booth when I was like 13 or so. I'm not sure how much stronger my arm has gotten now that I'm a grown ass nigga. If I can hit 80 I can make those throws though. It's really not a small pocket. First baseman are huge and it's not rare to see them stretch out on a throw or scoop a ball off a bounce. Again, you're over exaggerating the difficulty of it.


60 mph at 13 :lmao

Kids with good arms can throw 60 at 10 and 11 years old. I was throwing 55mph at 10. And my arm is just average-to-below average.

No. You ain't throwing 80mph straight off the couch. You're underestimating the difficulty of it because you never played beyond maybe T-ball and at a recess.


Fatball is less dependent on athleticism than any other major sport, In no other sport will you ever see 40 year old, obese men be above average players like you do in fatball:

Yeah, those specialist positions that you and the soccer crew keep referencing as if they're an example of the average baseball player. That's like me posting a bunch of pictures of centers and offensive guards from the NFL and saying, "See. Football isn't really that athletically demanding since MORBIDLY obese non-athletes (centers and o-guards aren't "athletic fatties" like defensive lineman) and slow, skinnyfat 40 year olds with bad knees and backs can be MVP candidates (Peyton Manning).

Fact: Average vertical leap of MLB player - 28" (same as the average NBA vertical).

Fact: Average 60 yard dash of MLB player - 6.8" (which translates into a 4.6 40 using strict math. Factor in acceleration from 40 yards to 60 yards, and it's a safe estimate that the average 40 time for an MLB player is in the 4.7-4.8 range). Even those "fatties" you keep referencing like Ortiz and Colon can gear up to 16mph over 90 feet. Fat=/=unathletic, which you should realize being a fan of the fattest sport in the world: Fooobaw.


I don't think simple acts like hitting, tackling, or shooting are considered tactics. That'd be like considering the simple act of shooting a gun a military tactic. The double switch, pitcher/batter match-ups, shifting a defense are more related to tactics imo. All of which are ridiculously simple and made even easier by the fact that fatball is such a static sport btw.

The tactical battles don't play out on the field as much as they do between the pitcher and batter. If it's so simple, Pepsi Challenge. Tell me how you to pitch to Trout from that clip. Tell me what complementary players you surround him with in the lineup? Tell me if you should shift on him? If so. Tell me where you should shift on him?

"What's that prove?"

It proves strategy/tactics in baseball aren't obviously simple like you claim, and in order to figure out Trout and other players, a great deal of study and research about them needs to be done. They just are figuring out Trout's weaknesses after 4 years.


My main issue with fatball is that the game itself is not physically demanding at all. That should be a requirement to be called a sport imo. It's the same reason why I have a problem with people calling golf, where fat asses roam as well, a sport. I know there's some great athletes in MLF but how often do they use those physical gifts? On average, they get 4 at bats and field maybe what 4-5 plays a game? The rest of the time they're sitting in the dugout eating sunflower seeds or standing around on defense. In futbol, even during a 0-0 tie, you can see a player's elite speed, dribbling, touch, defense, etc all the time. The same goes for any other real sport.

Because you never played, so of course you would think that. Baseball players also have the greatest core strength out of any ball sport athlete, generating 2300+ watts of power on average during a swing (2.5x of the average male). A pitcher's arm joint?


"Shoulder rotation in baseball pitching is the fastest motion of any joint in any athlete," Fleisig says; moving faster than hip joints in sprinters or shoulders in elite tennis players.

Average vert? We know it's 28".

Average sprint speed per statcast? 19.5mph, a faster speed than Robben ran during his famous World Cup sprint.

Yeah, training those athletic traits up isn't demanding at all :lol

"But the fatties :cry"

An NFL roster is half morbidly obese. Your point? The fatty/shredded ratio in baseball is probably 15%/85%. More baseball players look like Bryce Harper than Prince Fielder. And they always have.

And why do you need constant "running and jumping" to be engaged? Aren't there enough sports to give you that fix? Never mind the fact you get to see 300 world class athletic events just from the pitchers alone when they're throwing a baseball over 95 mph spinning at 2000-2800 rpms and nasty junk like 90 mph sliders and curves with 3 foot breaks. "They're not dunking, doe :cry." Yeah, I get it. Not ESPN highlight friendly and thus "boring" and not "athletically demanding."

You also mention that players only get a few chances to shine during a game. Well, that's one of the sport's intrigues. We already have enough sports in which players get a dozen or more chances to produce. QB will throw 30-40 passes per game. RB gets 20 rushing attempts. Wide Receiver gets 10 to 15 throws his way. O line gets a 100 snaps, so a missed block or hold isn't necessarily killer. Soccer might see limited shot chances, but players will get 50-100 touches per game, so there's still a lot of opportunity to perform in a non-scoring fashion (controlling possession, clearances, etc). Pitcher aside, in Baseball you just get your 4 or 5 chances at the plate and sometimes only 1 or 2 chances to make a play, so you better make those chances fuckin' count. There's no, "He's 0-5 right now, he'll heat up eventually. Just needs to see a shot go in or see a pass be completed."

More facts to consider for the shortstop challenge:


Scouts grade arms visually; in general, radar guns are not used to measure arm strength in the infield or outfield. But if you do not have a radar gun, average-grade velocities throwing from shortstop to first usually around 85 mph and higher.

Average home-to-first times:

http://m.mlb.com/assets/images/8/7/8/165149878/cuts/statcast_hometofirst_positionranks_2016_updated_at l_mu3if2a2_z4p1ejso.jpg

So let's put the average on the high side at 4.50 seconds. The slowest player in the league averages under 5 seconds. Ball will take about 1.50 seconds to reach you at shortstop on average, average transfer time (moving ball from glove to throwing hand) is about .70 seconds. To set, aim and throw takes about 1.00 second. So we have a total time of 3.2 seconds before the ball leaves your hand. A ball thrown 75 mph moves at 110 feet per second. 4.2 seconds for the total play. The best home-to-first runners get there in under 4 seconds.

Can you throw out some of the slower baserunners with 65mph ducks? Sure. (I doubt that you could, without a couple of months of daily practice, throw 65mph reasonably accurate from 110 feet, though). But, as you said, "I could make those throws," means you have to consistently make the many different kinds of throws MLB shortstops are required to make, from side arm 65 mph ducks to throw out jogging baserunners to 85-90mph bullets to throw out the speedsters (and despite your fatball and Bartolo Colon memes, an average lineup these days has guys that can all move).

Whenever you're ready to fire up the smartphone. And it has to be 100 throws, filmed continuously, no edits. Not trying to rig the challenge, but anyone can get lucky over 10 chances. I hit 7/10 threes yesterday during a streak, but my overall average out of 100 is 41%.

100 throws should only take about 10 minutes, maybe less. And it shouldn't tire or wear you out, since baseball is not athletically demanding :)

Note: I'll do 10 throws tomorrow or the next, filmed, to show you how hard to do it without hours of practice actually is. Take me on the honor system. I'll try my best and won't sandbag just to prove "hurr, see baseball is hard."

[midnightpulp]

An NFL QB, best of his generation who was a good baseball player drafted by the Expos, can't even make a 60 foot throw accurately.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PdXmkc44xU

:lol "I could make 10 out of 10 accurate throws from 110 feet tomorrow if I wanted!"

[Caltex2]

FkLA

In a 0-0 tie we see nothing but a few shots on goal, flops and lots of turnovers. For God's sake, relax the offsides rule. What would be the problem with more 7-6 games and a few players acting like poachers? Better than spending 90-120 minutes not seeing any scoring.

[midnightpulp]

FkLA

In a 0-0 tie we see nothing but a few shots on goal, flops and lots of turnovers. For God's sake, relax the offsides rule. What would be the problem with more 7-6 games and a few players acting like poachers? Better than spending 90-120 minutes not seeing any scoring.

We also hardly see anything athletically impressive in a soccer match as well. Ronaldo has the highest in game recorded vert at 32" :lmao. Soccer top sprint speeds are less than those of even "fatball" players. You see no impressive displays of upper body strength (no stiff arms, dunking over players, 500 foot bombs and 105 mph lasers). You see some nice lateral quickness, but nothing astonishing after watching someone like Barry Sanders or Russell Westbrook. They can kick a ball hard, but so can NFL kickers and Rugby players, sports with actual scoring.

Like I always say, it's whole gimmick is based around "stamina," a trait 102 year olds can master. :lol

[apalisoc_9]

We also hardly see anything athletically impressive in a soccer match as well. Ronaldo has the highest in game recorded vert at 32" :lmao. Soccer top sprint speeds are less than those of even "fatball" players. You see no impressive displays of upper body strength (no stiff arms, dunking over players, 500 foot bombs and 105 mph lasers). You see some nice lateral quickness, but nothing astonishing after watching someone like Barry Sanders or Russell Westbrook. They can kick a ball hard, but so can NFL kickers and Rugby players, sports with actual scoring.

Like I always say, it's whole gimmick is based around "stamina," a trait 102 year olds can master. :lol

Bro, you're rrying too hard.

Outside of GK, soccer players decline the fastest

[midnightpulp]

Bro, you're rrying too hard.

Outside of GK, soccer players decline the fastest

Then why aren't all the young guns lighting up the athletic metrics?

I'm not being biased, but after years of watching basketball, football, and yes, baseball, soccer players don't impress me with their core athleticism. If I do watch it, it's usually to appreciate some skills (nutmegs, bicycle kicks, jukes, through passes, cross passes) and atmosphere, which foreign sports fans are much better at creating than American sport fans.

It's a skill and stamina (easiest athletic trait to train for) game first and foremost.

I just find soccer redundant when we have hockey and basketball here, which are better goal sports, imo.

[Caltex2]

We also hardly see anything athletically impressive in a soccer match as well. Ronaldo has the highest in game recorded vert at 32" :lmao. Soccer top sprint speeds are less than those of even "fatball" players. You see no impressive displays of upper body strength (no stiff arms, dunking over players, 500 foot bombs and 105 mph lasers). You see some nice lateral quickness, but nothing astonishing after watching someone like Barry Sanders or Russell Westbrook. They can kick a ball hard, but so can NFL kickers and Rugby players, sports with actual scoring.

Like I always say, it's whole gimmick is based around "stamina," a trait 102 year olds can master. :lol

It's the only sport you can win without scoring in regulation or overtime. Well, aside from regular season hockey and some obscure sport(s) I'm neglecting.

[midnightpulp]

It's the only sport you can win without scoring in regulation or overtime. Well, aside from regular season hockey and some obscure sport(s) I'm neglecting.

I had a phase with it in the 90's. Don't hate it. Appreciate the skills involved, just like I appreciate great post-play, pitching, or quarterbacking, but as much as the soccer crew needs their players to "move around" to be entertained, I need my punch-counterpunch. Soccer is usually one big punch and you're out (and proven by the fact the average amount of goals scored in a soccer game is 2.25 TOTAL, not per team. 1 goal is enough to win a majority of the time.).

"But soccer is about the missed chances! The breakaway and shot that just sails a foot wide of the goal. The miracle save. The punch and counterpunches happen in a different way! It's not all about scoring."

All sports have that, too. The near misses. Gamewinning shots rattling out. Game saving blocked shots. Dropped passes that would've kept a drive alive. Game sealing interceptions. Inning ending double plays with the bases loaded, runners thrown out at the plate, robbed homeruns, etc. And on top of that, they have actual scoring and no Mario Party.

Cute little game, but outdated in terms of design.

[Caltex2]

Given it's a goal sport, it should have roughly the same amount of scoring as hockey or LAX, perhaps in between. 5-6 goals total per game or 5-6 per team per game.

Relax the offsides rule, there's basically no fastbreak in futbol.

[Kawhitstorm]

Can't stand him, since he's a Giant, but he's the greatest hitter maybe ever. He was a great hitter before the roids and the best hitter in the roid era in which much of his competition were on roids too, so I can't discount his accomplishments.

He was a force of nature. You literally could not pitch to him.

Pre-roid Bonds was just as much of a postseason choker as A-Roid.:lol

[midnightpulp]

Pre-roid Bonds was just as much of a postseason choker as A-Roid.:lol

indeed. Griffey was much more clutch in his limited post-season appearances. He singlehandedly destroyed the Yankees in '95. He had a rough '97 post-season in his MVP year, though.

[Kawhitstorm]

indeed. Griffey was much more clutch in his limited post-season appearances. He singlehandedly destroyed the Yankees in '95. He had a rough '97 post-season in his MVP year, though.

Chipper is the best of the 90s MVPs as far as being consistent in the postseason.

[Thread]

The beauty of MLB:::I'm just now watching the Dodgers/Red Sox game on the cable. Bottom of the 4th inning and this kid from the minors Segedin is batting with the bags juiced. Second at bat in the majors. His wife, 8 months pregnant is seated in the stands. He blasts one into center field and I'm sitting there and tears are streaming down my face. Why? I'll tell you why:::Sox CF Bradley on the Segedin screaming line drive immediately turns his back on home plate and is in full flight to make that play.

M L B

[Splits]

The beauty of MLB:::I'm just now watching the Dodgers/Red Sox game on the cable. Bottom of the 4th inning and this kid from the minors Segedin is batting with the bags juiced. Second at bat in the majors. His wife, 8 months pregnant is seated in the stands. He blasts one into center field and I'm sitting there and tears are streaming down my face. Why? I'll tell you why:::Sox CF Bradley on the Segedin screaming line drive immediately turns his back on home plate and is in full flight to make that play.

M L B

:lmao crying over 1 out of 27 out of 162

You lead a pathetic life.

[Thread]

:lmao crying over 1 out of 27 out of 162

You lead a pathetic life.

If ignorance were bliss you'd be a saint.

[midnightpulp]

Time for a video: Me vs. baseball in the backyard. Baseball crew, Robz4000 , ClipperNation , AlexJones , get in here and watch me throw some heat).

This is not the shortstop challenge, just a pitching challenge. 60.6" feet away, and trying to throw strikes with maximum velocity. Before anyone laughs, here's how silly throwing a pitch has made some world class athletes look:

Carl Lewis:

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/carllewis.gif?w=1000

John Wall:

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/john-wall-first-pitch.gif?w=1000

Jermichael Finley:

http://cdn.rsvlts.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Jermichael-Finley.gif

Tom Brady

http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/tom-brady-boston-red-sox-first-pitch-041315

Nolan Ryan (clocked at 108mph once upon a time, and has probably thrown a baseball more than anyone in history. Yeah, he's old, but he can't even lob a pitch in for a strike).

http://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/040114_nolan_ryan_5m8k56sl.gif?w=1000

Now me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0J0wcarrbw&feature=youtu.be

(Left trash can is the strikezone after I add the second can). I threw maybe one strike (at 3:30). 11 pitches total over about 20 minutes. I took a break at 5 pitches since my arm felt like a rag just after 5 pitches. I would've kept going but my arm was burning.

FWIW, just got back into playing basketball about 3 days ago. 10 times easier. 41/100 on 23 footers so far, and it doesn't feel like my arm or any other part of my body is going to disintegrate when I practice.

"There's no running :cry"

I would rather run for 10 minutes than throw 10 minutes of pitches right now without breaks.

Here's an example of the force pitching at your full velocity puts on the elbow (where I feel the most pain right now):

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8557/8711262969_32e09f62d9_o.gif

Yeah, after a few months of solid practice, I can build my arm up to deal with it for longer stretches, just like anything else, but my point here is that it's much easier to hop off the couch and shoot some jumpshots and do some layup drills or jog around the local park with some Mexicans kicking a ball around than it is to dive into throwing a baseball accurately with any kind of velocity.

I honestly recommend FkLA doesn't mess with any kind of 100 throw challenge. It honestly isn't safe until you've had a few months of conditioning and learned to throw with proper mechanics (which I never did. Just imitated the greats on TV).


So this tiny ligament in a pitcher’s elbow has to withstand 55 newton meters. When we try to test the UCL in cadavers, it breaks at 32 newton meters. So in a way, that’s saying that on every single pitch, your ligament should break.

In the history of humans and anatomy, we weren’t born to pitch 100 full-effort pitches every fifth day.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/tommy-john-epidemic-elbow-surgery-glenn-fleisig-yu-darvish/

[Robz4000]

Mid ran out of bubble gum tbh.

[midnightpulp]

Mid ran out of bubble gum tbh.

I can just chew my arm since that what it feels like. :lol

[Caltex2]

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/carllewis.gif?w=1000

That makes his national anthem look and sound like a masterpiece. "Uhhooohhhh!!!!!!!!" No longer do I consider it his darkest pre-game hour.

[Clipper Nation]

Mid just humiliating the poverty krew :lol

They're going to have to spam a ton of Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder pictures to distract people from this shiiiiiiiit!

[chunticakes]

The beauty of MLB:::I'm just now watching the Dodgers/Red Sox game on the cable. Bottom of the 4th inning and this kid from the minors Segedin is batting with the bags juiced. Second at bat in the majors. His wife, 8 months pregnant is seated in the stands. He blasts one into center field and I'm sitting there and tears are streaming down my face. Why? I'll tell you why:::Sox CF Bradley on the Segedin screaming line drive immediately turns his back on home plate and is in full flight to make that play.

M L F

[SpursforSix]

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/carllewis.gif?w=1000

That makes his national anthem look and sound like a masterpiece. "Uhhooohhhh!!!!!!!!" No longer do I consider it his darkest pre-game hour.

:lol How does a grown man...an athlete...not know how to throw a ball!??!

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Povertyball is much much simpler

[FkLA]

Jesus christ. Stop it, mid. You cherry picked some bad throws by athletes so you can be "see the simple act of throwing is super hard". Not to mention the fact that it's simply ceremonial and very few people take it that seriously. It's embarrassingly desperate considering the fact that there are literally millions of non-pro athletes who can make much better first pitches. I'm sure if I wanted to I could find plenty of good first pitches from average joes to counter your gifs.

edit:

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/i6469/imgs/2/4/24833f5e.gif

http://www.csnbayarea.com/sites/csnbayarea/files/kap_first_pitch.gif

http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/RussellWilsonFirstPitch.gif

http://i.makeagif.com/media/10-13-2015/VPTreS.gif
(this kid is literally blind)


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/4673042/cirque-du-soleil-first-pitch-o.gif

[FkLA]

Time for a video: Me vs. baseball in the backyard. Baseball crew, Robz4000 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=26403) , ClipperNation (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=50270) , AlexJones (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43137) , get in here and watch me throw some heat).

This is not the shortstop challenge, just a pitching challenge. 60.6" feet away, and trying to throw strikes with maximum velocity. Before anyone laughs, here's how silly throwing a pitch has made some world class athletes look:

Now me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0J0wcarrbw&feature=youtu.be

(Left trash can is the strikezone after I add the second can). I threw maybe one strike (at 3:30). 11 pitches total over about 20 minutes. I took a break at 5 pitches since my arm felt like a rag just after 5 pitches. I would've kept going but my arm was burning.

FWIW, just got back into playing basketball about 3 days ago. 10 times easier. 41/100 on 23 footers so far, and it doesn't feel like my arm or any other part of my body is going to disintegrate when I practice.

"There's no running :cry"

I would rather run for 10 minutes than throw 10 minutes of pitches right now without breaks.

Here's an example of the force pitching at your full velocity puts on the elbow (where I feel the most pain right now):

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8557/8711262969_32e09f62d9_o.gif

Yeah, after a few months of solid practice, I can build my arm up to deal with it for longer stretches, just like anything else, but my point here is that it's much easier to hop off the couch and shoot some jumpshots and do some layup drills or jog around the local park with some Mexicans kicking a ball around than it is to dive into throwing a baseball accurately with any kind of velocity.

I honestly recommend FkLA (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17213) doesn't mess with any kind of 100 throw challenge. It honestly isn't safe until you've had a few months of conditioning and learned to throw with proper mechanics (which I never did. Just imitated the greats on TV).



http://grantland.com/the-triangle/tommy-john-epidemic-elbow-surgery-glenn-fleisig-yu-darvish/

You're my bro but either you are trolling or you just aren't very good. Unfortunately I don't own any fatballs or else I'd do that same challenge right now. I wouldn't hit the trash can 10/10 but I'd definitely hit it more than once. I'd bet on that. I also wouldn't act like my arm is dying after a couple of throws. Not saying it isn't stressful on the elbow but a handful of throws isn't a big deal imho.

[lefty]

:lol FkLA ethering Mid and CN

[Thread]

Povertyball is much much simpler

Yeah, drop the kids off---go to the beer joint.

[Kidd K]

I started reading it and after seeing that it was the same bullshit that I have already shit on many times I got bored. Baseball is just a matchup between a guy pitching and a guy trying to get lucky by getting a hit 1 out of 3 times to be considered "elite". This game is just too limited and static to have any kind of important level of complexity. There's just not enough variables to be had.

Completely wrong. Making contact with the ball is not a "hit". Almost no players in the history of baseball (in fact I believe there aren't any) have actually struck out in even 1/3rd of their plate appearances, much less 7/10.

When you put the ball in play you have 9 players defending it and trying to stop you from reaching base. So it's 1 vs 9, not 1 vs 1. That's why .300 is impressive. Also, you're only looking at one stat too. That's merely a player's hits to at bats ratio. It's not their "times on base per plate appearance". Every player in the sport has a higher on base% than their batting average due to walks and hit by pitches. So in actuality, the "best players" are getting on base over 40% of the time, not just 30. Some even mid 40%s.

You talk about it being too static to be complex. . .then why are football and basketball so piss easy for -anyone- to pick up and play whereas baseball isn't? You only bemoan the sport because you don't bother putting any appreciation into it. It's cool if it's not your thing, but don't act like it has no strategy or a that 30% hit rate isn't good because it's a lot harder than shooting a basketball at a high % (NBA scrubs do that). Or are you gonna pretend that shooting 31% is more impressive than hitting .300? lol. "lower number = less impressive" logic. :lmao



According to mid it is hard though. Apparently there's some complex beauty behind the simple act of throwing a baseball that prevents the average joe like me from making those throws. Another example of him trying to overcomplicate an otherwise slow, boring game imo.

Btw Im nowhere close to fielding as well as a MLF shortstop but I could probably field some routine ground balls. So could a lot of average people who aren't uncoordinated tbh.

Oh okay, some "routine ground balls". Well then I'm sure a lot of average people who are uncoordinated could kick a ball down a field routinely with nothing else happening or nothing else required of them too. Likewise anyone can dribble a ball down a court or throw or catch a football easily with no game shit going on.

Do you really want to compare how hard it is to do the activities in each sport in basically non game situations or the easiest in-game ones like you just did? Catching a pass while wide open isn't hard. Shooting a ball or making a layup while wide open isn't hard.

Any more pointless comments tbh? Or should we continue with the shitposting that adds no value to the conversation?

[midnightpulp]

Jesus christ. Stop it, mid. You cherry picked some bad throws by athletes so you can be "see the simple act of throwing is super hard". Not to mention the fact that it's simply ceremonial and very few people take it that seriously. It's embarrassingly desperate considering the fact that there are literally millions of non-pro athletes who can make much better first pitches. I'm sure if I wanted to I could find plenty of good first pitches from average joes to counter your gifs.

edit:

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/i6469/imgs/2/4/24833f5e.gif

http://www.csnbayarea.com/sites/csnbayarea/files/kap_first_pitch.gif

http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/RussellWilsonFirstPitch.gif

http://i.makeagif.com/media/10-13-2015/VPTreS.gif
(this kid is literally blind)


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/4673042/cirque-du-soleil-first-pitch-o.gif

Are you serious? Wilson and Colin were elite hs baseball players. And the average Joes you posted were just lobbing throws in. Yeah, I could throw 10/10 strikes too just lobbing, but I was going for max velocity in my video.

The fact you "countered" with lobs from the blind kid, bush, who was a very good college baseball player, and such proves you can't evaluate what a real baseball throw actually is.

[apalisoc_9]

Are you serious? Wilson and Colin were elite hs baseball players. And the average Joes you posted were just lobbing throws in. Yeah, I could throw 10/10 strikes too just lobbing, but I was going for max velocity in my video.

The fact you "countered" with lobs from the blind kid, bush and such proves you can't evaluate what a real baseball throw actually is.

Oh so a non baseball player cant throw a good of a throw as pro...

What a surprise..thanks for letting us now.

[midnightpulp]

Oh so a non baseball player cant throw a good of a throw as pro...

What a surprise..thanks for letting us now.

What I'm saying is that routine baseball actions are harder to do and take more practice to do well than routine actions in many other sports. I haven't shot a basketball in years. Hopped off the couch last week and shooting 41 percent from 3. Decent practice score (pros will usually hit 75 percent in practice, and curry went as hugh as 94). And my missed shots will be on target.

In my pitching attempt, I maybe threw one strike. And I won't even try to attempt 100 full velocity pitches since it literally is not safe. I can shoot 3s all night.

[FkLA]

Are you serious? Wilson and Colin were elite hs baseball players. And the average Joes you posted were just lobbing throws in. Yeah, I could throw 10/10 strikes too just lobbing, but I was going for max velocity in my video.

The fact you "countered" with lobs from the blind kid, bush, who was a very good college baseball player, and such proves you can't evaluate what a real baseball throw actually is.

:lol But wait you posted attempted lobs from Wall, Ryan, and Lewis to show how hard it is. Even Finley's throw wasn't his max velocity I'm sure. Why can't I post lobs to counter yours? First pitches are ceremonial and rarely serious. I realize that and said as much in my other post. I posted the gifs as a counter to yours--that's it. I would never use them to try to prove that being an MLF pitcher is easy.

The average joe doesn't have the velocity or accuracy of an MLF pitcher, but those gifs you posted also aren't a fair representation of how well any coordinated person who has even some slight background in fatball can throw.

[FkLA]

What I'm saying is that routine baseball actions are harder to do and take more practice to do well than routine actions in many other sports. I haven't shot a basketball in years. Hopped off the couch last week and shooting 41 percent from 3. Decent practice score (pros will usually hit 75 percent in practice, and curry went as hugh as 94). And my missed shots will be on target.

In my pitching attempt, I maybe threw one strike. And I won't even try to attempt 100 full velocity pitches since it literally is not safe. I can shoot 3s all night.

Pitching isn't really routine. Most MLF fielders can't even pitch, so I'm sure the percentage of average joes who can pitch well is relatively small.

Catching some fly balls, fielding routine ground balls, making routine throws. Those aren't any harder than shooting a basketball alone in a gym.

[midnightpulp]

Average Joes (and some more athletes. All pitches that would've missed a trash can size target):

http://www.manolith.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/denard-robinson-first-pitch-fail.gif

https://66.media.tumblr.com/fcbfc2ab7ad9badc0801a7e940fecd1d/tumblr_n8ioltWD8z1tbqzkbo1_500.gif

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/dan-marino-throws-out-the-first-pitch-for-marlins-on-opening-day.gif

http://i.imgur.com/osTKoGd.gif

You can tell this Joe played a bit. Decent mechanics, and still missed by 4 feet.

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/bob-costas-first-pitch-at-stl-game.gif?w=1000

http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/chris-pratt-first-pitch-cubs-game.gif

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/4/8/6/171223486/040816_clecws_chance_the_rapper_med_banbbtsm.gif

http://i1.wp.com/gifsection.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Bruce-Pearls-opening-pitch-before-the-Auburn-Missouri-game-was-just-a-bit-outside.gif?resize=600%2C338

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/5/14/17/anigif_enhanced-buzz-31827-1368568646-1.gif

http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/42/75/0e327d4422c988c5d9773859376d7344-adam-carolla-awful-first-pitch.gif

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http://mlb.mlb.com/images/5/3/4/129616534/060915_snoop_first_pitch_med_wsmxc3x5.gif

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Fkla thinks I'm cherry picking. No. 80% of first pitches are just like the above. The only people who make decent ones are former baseball players and people lobbing super slowly to make sure they are somewhat on target.

[FkLA]

Oh okay, some "routine ground balls". Well then I'm sure a lot of average people who are uncoordinated could kick a ball down a field routinely with nothing else happening or nothing else required of them too. Likewise anyone can dribble a ball down a court or throw or catch a football easily with no game shit going on.

Do you really want to compare how hard it is to do the activities in each sport in basically non game situations or the easiest in-game ones like you just did? Catching a pass while wide open isn't hard. Shooting a ball or making a layup while wide open isn't hard.

Any more pointless comments tbh? Or should we continue with the shitposting that adds no value to the conversation?

Again, you have to talk to mid about that. I'm not bragging about being able to make routine throws to a big ass target, I'm simply disagreeing with him when he says I (or most normal people) can't do it.

And sure the average person can kick a ball blindly. Probably couldn't place it in an upper corner, put curve on it, or make an accurate cross though. Much harder to control the accuracy of a soccer ball than a fatball, for obvious reasons, tbh.

[FkLA]

Fkla thinks I'm cherry picking. No. 80% of first pitches are just like the above. The only people who make decent ones are former baseball players and people lobbing super slowly to make sure they are somewhat on target.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lVFVqHzkqc


I'll throw 10, 15, or 20 pitches. Willing to bet none of my throws will be lobs or anywhere near as bad as any of those gifs--and I'm no former fatball player.

[Spur-Addict]

Baseball is fucking trash, just give it up.

[Thread]

Baseball is fucking trash, just give it up.

You're nuts.

[midnightpulp]

Pitching isn't really routine. Most MLF fielders can't even pitch, so I'm sure the percentage of average joes who can pitch well is relatively small.

Catching some fly balls, fielding routine ground balls, making routine throws. Those aren't any harder than shooting a basketball alone in a gym.

:lol Yes they can. They are not ELITE pitchers, but they can throw on target consistently at their max velocity (the average MLB position player probably has an arm in the 80-90mph range).

Not everyone is blessed with an arm that can throw 95mph. The strongest armed players will start focusing on pitching in high school/college/minor leagues, while weaker armed players will move to other positions. It's not uncommon for a high school star to be elite at a position (OF, 3rd, SS, etc), be an elite hitter, and be an elite pitcher. Coaches/Scouts will size him up and then push him toward a certain position. Kap was a solid pitcher, hitter, and fielder. http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/colin-kaepernick/dOQ1zPTlEeKZ5AAmVebBJg/gendersport/baseball-stats.htm

If he stuck with baseball his position would've probably been shortstop because of his athleticism, arm strength, and range. Even though he was a shutdown pitcher in HS, he probably wouldn't have a chance a the MLB level to be a pitcher since his average fastball speed was 87. Elite HS pitching prospects are throwing 95 already. But his high 80's arm strength is perfect for the SS combined with his athleticism.

Routine throws from 2nd are no harder than shooting. But routine throws from SS and 3rd base are way harder (I'll drop down the velocity requirement to 70mph. You ain't throwing 70 accurately from 100 or more feet). 70 seems "slow" because MLB pitchers are throwing into the 100s, but for the average Joe, that is fast speed to hit. See Russell Wilson again. He was gunning and only hit 75mph on the gun). Another indication you've never played. A SS to 1B throw doesn't look very far on TV because of the camera depth-of-field, but once you see it in person, it's 20 percent longer than a full court basketball court.

Stay tuned. Gonna go to the field next door and show you how hard it is to hit a target from 110 feet. And yes, I'll give myself a 1b sized target (A 1B can cover about about 100sq feet, about the size of a garage door).

Pitching is also a routine action since it's the game's most prominent action. And again, all players can do it, they just can't do it at an elite level. Dribbling is a routine basketball action, as well. But you don't see Tim Duncan running point. Same thing.

[midnightpulp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lVFVqHzkqc


I'll throw 10, 15, or 20 pitches. Willing to bet none of my throws will be lobs or anywhere near as bad as any of those gifs--and I'm no former fatball player.

High school baseball player.


Mizanin, 33, is a 1999 graduate of Normandy High School where he was [B]captain of the varsity baseball team

Like I said, only former baseball players and maybe QBs can make good pitches without lobbing.

[Spur-Addict]

You're nuts.

Takes one to know one

[midnightpulp]

Again, you have to talk to mid about that. I'm not bragging about being able to make routine throws to a big ass target, I'm simply disagreeing with him when he says I (or most normal people) can't do it.

And sure the average person can kick a ball blindly. Probably couldn't place it in an upper corner, put curve on it, or make an accurate cross though. Much harder to control the accuracy of a soccer ball than a fatball, for obvious reasons, tbh.

If the person has zero experience throwing a ball, no, a normal person can't do it. Not even once.

If you played some baseball in elementary and middle school, but haven't thrown in years, you might be able to make 20-30% of routine throws from the SS distance. You claimed you could do it at a .950 rate straight off the couch. I call bullshit on that. Like I said, unless you're throwing at least in the high 70's, you'll fail to get a lot baserunners out.

Precise soccer shots on goal and curves aren't routine soccer actions. A routine soccer action would be dribbling and simple passing like this:

http://i.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/TjruSw.gif

That said, I'm staying away from comparing baseball's learning curve to soccer's learning curve since I have as much as experience with soccer as you and the soccer crew do with baseball, and I don't talk out of my ass about a sport I haven't played at an organized level like the soccer crew does.

But baseball's respective learning curve vs. basketball and football is much, much higher. Football was by far the easiest since positions are super specialized, meaning you usually only need to do one or two things well, and those couple of things aren't really mechanically sophisticated (like throwing/hitting a baseball, shooting a jumper, etc). I was a running back and then an undersized starting nose tackle (150lb vs. 225lb linemen. Fun). The skills to becoming an average player at that level were simple to learn in both cases.

Keep in mind I like all sports about equally (I do dislike the modern NFL, though), but this is just a fact. Baseball actions, on average, require more precise muscles movements and mechanical synchronization than average actions in those other two sports.

[midnightpulp]

Baseball is fucking trash, just give it up.

:lol Follows a sport in which 51% of viewers prefer to watch commercials over the game

[FkLA]

If the person has zero experience throwing a ball, no, a normal person can't do it. Not even once.

If you played some baseball in elementary and middle school, but haven't thrown in years, you might be able to make 20-30% of routine throws from the SS distance. You claimed you could do it at a .950 rate straight off the couch. I call bullshit on that. Like I said, unless you're throwing at least in the high 70's, you'll fail to get a lot baserunners out.

Precise soccer shots on goal and curves aren't routine soccer actions. A routine soccer action would be dribbling and simple passing like this:

http://i.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/TjruSw.gif

That said, I'm staying away from comparing baseball's learning curve to soccer's learning curve since I have as much as experience with soccer as you and the soccer crew do with baseball, and I don't talk out of my ass about a sport I haven't played at an organized level like the soccer crew does.

You brought up the .950 number. Initially, you simply claimed I couldn't throw an MLF player out. Then you moved the goalposts to .950 accuracy and 80-90 mph. How often do MLF shortstops make accurate throws, anyway? I'm guessing mid to high 90s.

With that said I think I could make that throw at that clip at my max velocity, whatever that may be (don't know for sure if I can hit 80 mph).


But baseball's respective learning curve vs. basketball and football is much, much higher. Football was by far the easiest since positions are super specialized, meaning you usually only need to do one or two things well, and those couple of things aren't really mechanically sophisticated (like throwing/hitting a baseball, shooting a jumper, etc). I was a running back and then an undersized starting nose tackle (150lb vs. 225lb linemen. Fun). The skills to becoming an average player at that level were simple to learn in both cases.

Keep in mind I like all sports about equally (I do dislike the modern NFL, though), but this is just a fact. Baseball actions, on average, require more precise muscles movements and mechanical synchronization than average actions in those other two sports.

You're right that positions are super specialized, so I agree about football.

Couldn't disagree more about basketball though. Shooting by yourself is easy, so is dribbling in a straight line with your strong hand. That's far from what it takes to be an average player even at a local rec center though. You have to become competent with your off hand. Learn different variations of lay-ups. You have to learn how to get your shot off in multiple ways (fadeaways, stepback, pull-up). Different dribbling techniques, etc. I would consider myself average at best if I walked into a rec center and it took me my entire childhood and some of my young adult life to develop my game tbh.

[Silver&Black]

:lol Follows a sport in which 51% of viewers prefer to watch commercials over the game

I'd rather watch the commercials than baseball or soccer, tbh. :wakeup

[midnightpulp]

You brought up the .950 number. Initially, you simply claimed I couldn't throw an MLF player out. Then you moved the goalposts to .950 accuracy and 80-90 mph. How often do MLF shortstops make accurate throws, anyway? I'm guessing mid to high 90s.

With that said I think I could make that throw at that clip at my max velocity, whatever that may be (don't know for sure if I can hit 80 mph).



You're right that positions are super specialized, so I agree about football.

Couldn't disagree more about basketball though. Shooting by yourself is easy, so is dribbling in a straight line with your strong hand. That's far from what it takes to be an average player even at a local rec center though. You have to become competent with your off hand. Learn different variations of lay-ups. You have to learn how to get your shot off in multiple ways (fadeaways, stepback, pull-up). Different dribbling techniques, etc. I would consider myself average at best if I walked into a rec center and it took me my entire childhood and some of my young adult life to develop my game tbh.

Basketball was my "main sport" after baseball humbled me, and after a year, I could do pretty much anything at an average level (not claiming I was a star or a hotshot). We played everyday, for hours, after school. Two of the guys in these pickup games played AAU Slam 'n Jam here in SoCal, which was a rather "elite." Those two guys would be above average at a local rec league at 15. One of the guys played YMCA Rec in the 15-17 year old age group and average 30 points per game.

About Slam ' n Jam:


The Slam-N-Jam Development League will hold its Carson Grand Finale on Wednesday through Saturday with a 16-team tournament at Carson High featuring some of the top high school teams in the area. Wednesday's opening-round games are Muir vs. Dominguez at 11 a.m., Santa Clara vs. Oceanside at 12:20, Vista vs. Morningside at 1:40, Cleveland vs. Hawthorne at 3, Lynwood vs. Marina at 4:20, Ocean View vs. Lakewood at 5:40, Carson vs. Rolling Hills at 7 and Long Beach Poly vs. Palos Verdes at 8:20.

http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/slam-n-jam-league

Had little problem keeping up with guys playing their whole lives.

Learning to hit a baseball consistently is much harder to do than any basketball skill that isn't related to pure athleticism/height (i.e. most people can't dunk because they lack the skills, they can't dunk because they're not tall enough or can't jump high enough). Baseball is similar to soccer in that you have to start very young (there's a couple of exceptions of late bloomers, though, like Lorenzo Cain). Basketball has numerous stories of guys starting in their teens and in high school. Duncan never saw a basketball until 15 and became an all-time great. Dikembe until 17. Nash didn't start until 13.

And if you're tall and decently athletic, the skill requirement goes way down. Aron Baynes has a below average skillset, even by rec league standards, and he's an NBA player because he's big, tall, strong, and pretty athletic for his size. Dwight Howard's skillset is practically nonexistent, and he was a 3 time DPOY.

As for me moving the goal posts, I though your original claim was, "I could make those throws?" Which implies you could do it consistently.

Now for a vid. Me and the SS challenge (and yes, my arm feels like fuckin' shit again). I short threw a lot these because every throw was like a fuckin' needle into my elbow. And my arm felt good beforehand, but it's obviously not healed from yesterday. I partly blame myself for not warming up on both occasions, but my premise for the challenge was "straight off the couch," since baseball haters think there's nothing physically demanding about the game and you can just jump in and play like you're going bowling or playing darts. But even if I did warm up, I doubt the results would be much different. It's a biological fact that throwing a baseball hard strains your UCL to its max for every throw. Like I said, would need months of daily training to deal with this drill for more than 10-20 minutes.

And this is a routine practice drill, just like shooting jumpers in an empty gym.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=317oasjkrkM&feature=youtu.be

None of my throws I would consider good, and they would need the first baseman to make a play, when I should be making the play.

[resistanze]

Oh, and how about the reverse of this?

Could you strikeout someone like Daniel Murphy or Mike Trout if you had a thousand pitches?

(You might be able to get them out, though. They could very well belt a hard liner right to an infielder. Batting practice pitches are about 60 mph and we see in the HR derby that they can be popped up and such).

Didn't see this till now. Strikeout? Unlikely, and I would sure as hell go with the worst hitter in the MLB for my test. I would get an out eventually if we include all forms of outs.

[spurraider21]

Now me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0J0wcarrbw&feature=youtu.be
more exciting than MLB games on tv tbh

[spurraider21]

:lol Follows a sport in which 51% of viewers prefer to watch commercials over the game
during the superbowl which is skewed by a ridiculous amount of casual fans who dont watch football any other day of the year