Spurs sign David Lee per Woj

[SAGirl]

Imo Dedmon must come through for the Spurs next season for us to be serious contenders. I believe he is the true X-factor. Consequently, I would rather have kept Bonner than signed Lee. Bonner would work much better WITH Dedmon.
I really thought they were going with Bonner but if anything, them going with Lee means they have gone all in with Kyle/Bertans as bench 4s. Lee to me is an undersized small ball center, thus he's Dedmon insurance. LJC technically could play that role, but we all know he can't right now. He's just not ready.

[koriwhat]

No Andrew Bogut in games 6 or 7 for the Warriors.

From what i remember of the 2015 finals... it wasnt bogut getting it done anyways.

[SAGirl]

I don't know why people are trying to push this idea that minimum contracts don't affect the cap, but it's coming from a place of ignorance. They do affect the cap, and for a guy like Lee, they affect if more than normal. Lee has the ninth-highest salary on the team, and if he is horrible or gets hurt of whatever, he'll likely have the 10th- or 11th-highest next year. For a team considering using cap space, it's a big deal. It's a REALLY big deal. Between that and Tim, the Spurs have $3 Million in cap space committed next summer to guys who might give the Spurs nothing (might not even be on the team depending on how things go). That's enough to fit in Anderson, Bertans, Simmons AND whichever UDFA makes the team -- combined.
I think the second season is akin to Tim's. He was probably looking at offers of more $ elsewhere and besides selling Lee on a role of some kind, they had to offer him more money in some way.

[montgod]

I think the second season is akin to Tim's. He was probably looking at offers of more $ elsewhere and besides selling Lee on a role of some kind, they had to offer him more money in some way.

Anyone know if it's a player or team option for 2nd year? I would think player, but just guessing.

[SAGirl]

I am not certain that Lee or Pop expects him to be a 14th or 15th man. If so, frankly, I would prefer Bonner.
Yea, I doubt highly he's that low. That is probably LJC and one of the rookie guards... might be Murray if he's as raw as we saw in SL.

[SAGirl]

Anyone know if it's a player or team option for 2nd year? I would think player, but just guessing.
It's player.

[montgod]

It's player.

Either way, I think he will be motivated enough to get a higher deal and reject after this year especially with the current state of NBA contracts.

[Chinook]

I think the second season is akin to Tim's. He was probably looking at offers of more $ elsewhere and besides selling Lee on a role of some kind, they had to offer him more money in some way.

That's fine. That Lee might opt out is fine. But his contract isn't negligible, which seems to be what some people were trying to argue. The Spurs are probably done with roster improvements for a couple of seasons.

[Keepin' it real]

Wow! This signing even got the Spurs on PTI today. Well, kind of ... Wilbon and Rachel Nichols (subbing for Kornheiser) said "David Lee signs with the Spurs" ... then proceeded to talk about Lebron, Kobe, the Warriors, Cavs and Thunder, and spent about 10 seconds on David Lee. Nichols laughed at the signing because David Lee was never a star; Wilbon said good pickup for the Spurs to give depth behind Gasol.

[TD 21]

Really, Lee is similar to West (as an aside, Lee is actually a better fit for the Warriors than West, who's as poor a fit with them as he was last season's Spurs; but who'd have been a much better fit with this season's Spurs.), in that even though there doesn't appear to be a clear fit in the rotation, through a variety of situations, he's going to end up soaking up a lot of regular season minutes.

Outside of Anderson, who's probably close to a lock, the remaining bench front court minutes could easily be an ongoing competition throughout the season. Dedmon/Lee for backup center and Simmons/Bertans for backup forward.

[DPG21920]

That's fine. That Lee might opt out is fine. But his contract isn't negligible, which seems to be what some people were trying to argue. The Spurs are probably done with roster improvements for a couple of seasons.

Huh? How on Earth can you assume SA is done with roster improvements for a couple of years based on their signings? Even if everyone opt in, all on only 2 year deals.

[RD2191]

Is Chinook the new chumpdumper Tbh?

[Chinook]

Huh? How on Earth can you assume SA is done with roster improvements for a couple of years based on their signings? Even if everyone opt in, all on only 2 year deals.

So doesn't that play into what I just said? What does "a couple" mean to you?

[Chinook]

Is Chinook the new chumpdumper Tbh?

Wondering when you went blue, man.

[T Park]

Westbrook?

Hes coming here to LA. Its pretty much well known by now. They practically have his locker all set up at Staples.

[DPG21920]

So doesn't that play into what I just said? What does "a couple" mean to you?

Well if you are counting this year of their contract, ok, but that does not make sense to me since the added a lot to the roster this year.

If the guys all opt in it would harm the Spurs only 1 year (the next after this one). So not a couple to me, but 1 year perhaps.

[SpursFan86]

Perfectly fine with this signing as long as Pop doesn't overplay him (which is admittedly a concern). I agree with the idea of Lee being more of the 3rd center as opposed to the 2nd PF...and in that role, I don't think you could ask for much better for the price + lack of people left on the market.

Kawhi/Simmons/Bertans
Aldridge/Anderson/Bertans
Pau/Dedmon/Lee

Looks solid to me :tu

[dabom]

Is Chinook the new chumpdumper Tbh?

RC is the king of NBA budgeting. I think he looks past this year in his dealings. :lol

[DPG21920]

Lee should be fine - I don't love him, but he's talented. Just not sure I like what his talent is :lol.

But there was really no one better once Terrence Jones got snatched up for that money.

[Hoops Czar]

Perfectly fine with this signing as long as Pop doesn't overplay him (which is admittedly a concern). I agree with the idea of Lee being more of the 3rd center as opposed to the 2nd PF...and in that role, I don't think you could ask for much better for the price + lack of people left on the market.

Kawhi/Simmons/Bertans
Aldridge/Anderson/Bertans
Pau/Dedmon/Lee

Looks solid to me :tu

:depressed Fuck me!

[Chinook]

Well if you are counting this year of their contract, ok, but that does not make sense to me since the added a lot to the roster this year.

If the guys all opt in it would harm the Spurs only 1 year (the next after this one). So not a couple to me, but 1 year perhaps.

Yeah, but people were talking Paul and Westbrook next summer. I think it's more likely now that the biggest contract is Mills or Dedmon getting a raise.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, but people were talking Paul and Westbrook next summer. I think it's more likely now that the biggest contract is Mills or Dedmon getting a raise.

For sure - the potential for SA to have no shot at truly adding to the roster next year is definitely there, but that is just one year.

I do think that it's pretty unlikely that all the guys opt in but the most important one is Pau. Have to see how he fits and SA may want to keep him. Plus, for 2 years in a row now, SA has traded someone to help free up space.

If Pau opts in (and he's healthy and fit well) SA could still free up his money by moving TP or Danny and be in the same as if he opted out (or close). It's definitely a tougher path that will cost players if all of them opt in, but there are ways as you know.

I mean, the guys like Dedmon hopefully do opt in because having cheap role players is great, but that probably only happens if they play bad which means SA might not want them :lol

[sasaint]

Yea, I doubt highly he's that low. That is probably LJC and one of the rookie guards... might be Murray if he's as raw as we saw in SL.

That's the problem. If he is not the 14th or 15th guy, then one or more of our young guys will not get the playing time they need to develop. You, yourself, have preached that at some point you have to throw them in the river and kind of sink or swim with them. You can't just keep yanking the young guys out of games and sitting them at the end of the bench for extended periods because they make a turnover or miss a defensive rotation. You gotta coach 'em up and deny the instinct to rush to an old veteran.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cog6jh7UIAAauSn.jpg

[bklynspursfan]

He doesn't Pop. He's a roller and so is Dedmon. He's an undersized center.

Lee has a decent mid range shot for sure. He is capable of it. He's more of a roller, but he can hit definitely knock down the mid range shot. I watched him often being here in NY, he can knock it down.

http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/1038/david-lee/shotchart/

Smaller sample size, but considering he'll get decent looks in our offense, he should capitalize

[bdictjames]

I can see a lot of Manu and David Lee pick and rolls happening. Might even be the next Tiago Splitter for us.

[SAGirl]

Yeah, but people were talking Paul and Westbrook next summer. I think it's more likely now that the biggest contract is Mills or Dedmon getting a raise.
Looks like it.

[SAGirl]

That's the problem. If he is not the 14th or 15th guy, then one or more of our young guys will not get the playing time they need to develop. You, yourself, have preached that at some point you have to throw them in the river and kind of sink or swim with them. You can't just keep yanking the young guys out of games and sitting them at the end of the bench for extended periods because they make a turnover or miss a defensive rotation. You gotta coach 'em up and deny the instinct to rush to an old veteran.

I have been a staunch advocate of putting more in the shoulders of younger guys who have shown to be above dleague and summer league level. If a guy is not ready and he can benefit from the dleague, by all means dleague is ideal to have a safe environment to make mistakes and correct them without raising Pop's ire, but for guys who had already dominated dleague and summer league more of the same is of little help. Those guys need a real challenge. They need to be thrown into the ocean to swim with sharks bc they have already seen enough of goldfishes. Chinook will love the fish reference :toast Anyways, it's a fine line if Pop doesn't want to let a guy get eaten by sharks too early, but he at least needs to wrestle with some fishes in between the goldfish and the shark to grow you know? lol fishes are not my best reference but came to mind.:lol

Anyways, I guess raybies (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42684) already conditioned me to expect the same ol from Pop, so that I am not disappointed this season when we see more of it. As for Dejounte, I am in his camp, but he's very young and it's hard to say how he fits with all this. So long as Tony and Manu have the ball in their hands, he won't develop much and he does have a lot he can work on in the dleague right this second. But it's really hard to say, he can show off in training camp so much potential that Pop incorporates him somehow.

As for Lee, I think the team needed a vet anyways. If Pop brought him in to leave all the youngsters benched, even those who have shown they can play in the NBA then that does the team a disservice... so I am choosing to believe the truth is somewhere in between. I don't think he's guaranteed a super spot, but he for sure won't be Bonner. But if we look at Butler he wasn't Bonner either. He started ahead of the youngsters early in the season and as they improved and surpassed him, he then took a back seat. When one of them regressed, Butler was ready to step back up.

[SAGirl]

Lee has a decent mid range shot for sure. He is capable of it. He's more of a roller, but he can hit definitely knock down the mid range shot. I watched him often being here in NY, he can knock it down.

http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/1038/david-lee/shotchart/

Smaller sample size, but considering he'll get decent looks in our offense, he should capitalize
Maybe he will show that is still in his arsenal. His NY days are a long time ago.

[sasaint]

I have been a staunch advocate of putting more in the shoulders of younger guys who have shown to be above dleague and summer league level. If a guy is not ready and he can benefit from the dleague, by all means dleague is ideal to have a safe environment to make mistakes and correct them without raising Pop's ire, but for guys who had already dominated dleague and summer league more of the same is of little help. Those guys need a real challenge. They need to be thrown into the ocean to swim with sharks bc they have already seen enough of goldfishes. Chinook will love the fish reference :toast Anyways, it's a fine line if Pop doesn't want to let a guy get eaten by sharks too early, but he at least needs to wrestle with some fishes in between the goldfish and the shark to grow you know? lol fishes are not my best reference but came to mind.:lol

Anyways, I guess raybies (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42684) already conditioned me to expect the same ol from Pop, so that I am not disappointed this season when we see more of it. As for Dejounte, I am in his camp, but he's very young and it's hard to say how he fits with all this. So long as Tony and Manu have the ball in their hands, he won't develop much and he does have a lot he can work on in the dleague right this second. But it's really hard to say, he can show off in training camp so much potential that Pop incorporates him somehow.

As for Lee, I think the team needed a vet anyways. If Pop brought him in to leave all the youngsters benched, even those who have shown they can play in the NBA then that does the team a disservice... so I am choosing to believe the truth is somewhere in between. I don't think he's guaranteed a super spot, but he for sure won't be Bonner. But if we look at Butler he wasn't Bonner either. He started ahead of the youngsters early in the season and as they improved and surpassed him, he then took a back seat. When one of them regressed, Butler was ready to step back up.

Count me with raybies. Pop is not likely to change his spots at this late stage. He coached so poorly last season, I am pretty depressed about what to expect this season. I just hope he doesn't make good on his threat to stay until the end of LMA's current contract. If we are lucky, he and Manu will ride off into the sunset together next off season and the new regime will move Tony, so that the Spurs can finally move forward into the future. I am also praying that Dedmon develops so well that Lee becomes a "forgotten man".

[Kidd K]

Well. . .replacing Duncan with Pau Gasol and David Lee is interesting and probably as much as we could have realistically gotten. . .so I'm both pleasantly surprised and happy with the outcome.

:tu

[SAGirl]

Count me with raybies (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42684). Pop is not likely to change his spots at this late stage. He coached so poorly last season, I am pretty depressed about what to expect this season. I just hope he doesn't make good on his threat to stay until the end of LMA's current contract. If we are lucky, he and Manu will ride off into the sunset together next off season and the new regime will move Tony, so that the Spurs can finally move forward into the future. I am also praying that Dedmon develops so well that Lee becomes a "forgotten man".
I was depressed about that too last week. It was preventing me from being happy to have Manu back. The problem is not getting 39 yr old Manu back... the problem is Pop relying on Manu to still be the engine and not developing others and he's now headed that way with Lee too.

Sometimes ppl talk about guys like CJ McCollum and how they broke into the scene all of a sudden. Well aside from a few injuries, the guy was buried behind Wes Mathews and Batum. Even Crabbe wasn't getting playing time of a sufficient magnitude to improve. They also had Will Barton who kind of broke out for Denver. Sometimes guys are ready and just need the coach's trust and playing time. I'd like to see Bertans and Dejounte too. I don't have any problem with Pop picking up vets, the problem is Pop relying on these vets to the detriment and coaching of younger players who have talent. :depressedThen we get to the playoffs and these guys are not ready. We get sunk early and fingers are pointed at Kawhi and LMA, maybe someone else this season... not at Pop and all the old TOSB he still lives and dies by. It's not fair to Kawhi IMO.

Edit: but I am choosing to not be this pessimistic and rather think the the reliance on Manu and Lee or whomever will be moderate and that Pop will give opportunities to the younger players.

[Mnky]

Pop coached a record breaking season. The starters outplayed the Okc starters series wise, the bench played horrible. There only so much you can do when your second unit is constantly a negative and clearly not a match-up talent wise. It's an uphill battle that doesn't get easier as a series goes on.

Lee I believe is a great pickup. He's a big who can attack the dribble, and rebound. He's a very active player who's annoying habits help as much as anything he does. He's also a competitor. He plays big against good teams. He's very versatile and his defense won't be worse than what we had on a top 5 defense, but he brings more offensive intangibles. Good signing. Look forward to seeing how he's used.

[dabom]

Addition of fathead and Dwest was just bad. That's the only major difference from other years.

[bklynspursfan]

Count me with raybies. Pop is not likely to change his spots at this late stage. He coached so poorly last season, I am pretty depressed about what to expect this season. I just hope he doesn't make good on his threat to stay until the end of LMA's current contract. If we are lucky, he and Manu will ride off into the sunset together next off season and the new regime will move Tony, so that the Spurs can finally move forward into the future. I am also praying that Dedmon develops so well that Lee becomes a "forgotten man".

If we are lucky? That's gonna suck when Pop/Manu and Parker retire. (Parker is retiring a Spur BTW)

There's no need to go full blown youth movement. We have older guys who can play. How often do young teams win it all anyway? We lost TD, and to lose Pop/Manu/Parker the next season at once would suck. I mean Pop is irreplaceable, its not like Bud is still here who would've been ideal to take over.

If the young guys play well enough, they'll get time. Pop has shown that already.

[SAGirl]

Pop coached a record breaking season. The starters outplayed the Okc starters series wise, the bench played horrible. There only so much you can do when your second unit is constantly a negative and clearly not a match-up talent wise. It's an uphill battle that doesn't get easier as a series goes on.

Lee I believe is a great pickup. He's a big who can attack the dribble, and rebound. He's a very active player who's annoying habits help as much as anything he does. He's also a competitor. He plays big against good teams. He's very versatile and his defense won't be worse than what we had on a top 5 defense, but he brings more offensive intangibles. Good signing. Look forward to seeing how he's used.
67 win season is worthless if the team underachieves in my book. Manu's usage went from almost 24% in the RS to about 15% in the playoffs. If he's not going to be able to be the man in the playoffs (and he shouldn't be expected to do that at 39 yrs old), then Pop needs to steer the team a different direction, whatever it may be. If we are going to see more of Manu being the man in the RS, expect an early round exit again. You heard it here first.

[bklynspursfan]

Manu is not ideal for some matchups. OKC happened to be one, but he is far from the reason we lost.

Heck the refs screwed us in 2 games, I'm still not sold we should have even lost to OKC. But the bigger problem was Diaw/West and a hobbled Duncan were outmatched by their front court.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I don't know why people are trying to push this idea that minimum contracts don't affect the cap, but it's coming from a place of ignorance. They do affect the cap, and for a guy like Lee, they affect if more than normal. Lee has the ninth-highest salary on the team, and if he is horrible or gets hurt of whatever, he'll likely have the 10th- or 11th-highest next year. For a team considering using cap space, it's a big deal. It's a REALLY big deal. Between that and Tim, the Spurs have $3 Million in cap space committed next summer to guys who might give the Spurs nothing (might not even be on the team depending on how things go). That's enough to fit in Anderson, Bertans, Simmons AND whichever UDFA makes the team -- combined.

Honestly, this post comes out of a place of respect and the questions that I pose are those out of true curiosity.

I realize that this quote is directed at me - and I will admit that I have less than 1% of the knowledge regarding the CBA when compared to you, but I think that you are being completely unfair with some of your assumptions and your choice of lumping in other players' contracts with Lee's to help strengthen your point. Lee will be making ~$1.6M next year (if he opts in) which is around 1.5% of the cap. Lee's contract is the proverbial straw that broke the Spurs' back when it comes to a chance to bring in a marquee free agent next year? I understand that every penny counts and how frugal FOs have to be, but the Spurs have proven multiple times recently that they are willing to trade away/shed contracts to acquire key pieces. Why would that be any different next year just because of David Lee's signing?

His contract numbers have nothing to do with Duncan's, so I don't know why combining them was even brought into the picture. If you're just doing it under the assumption that "he gets hurt, or gives us nothing", couldn't you do that with ANY player with a contract that goes into next year (i.e. If Tony gets hurt or gives us nothing next year, the Spurs will have $17M committed next year for players who aren't helping the team?) I personally believe that there is a much higher chance of him contributing "some" (or seeing an opportunity to prove himself elsewhere) and opting out for a bigger paycheck next year than your scenario of getting injured or falling off of the face of the Earth and opting in, but only time will tell. Not only that, but wouldn't his contract be easy to add to a trade next offseason - even if it was to only make the numbers work?

I also realize that Lee doesn't have the possible upside of a player like Dedmon or Bertans, but if you were going to play out the Chicken Little sky-is-falling routine wouldn't you prefer it on a player with a vet minimum deal (although it is higher than a UDFA min deal) instead of a player like Dedmon (whose player option is nearly double that of Lee) or, God forbid, a player like Gasol?

Again, I admit that my knowledge in regards to these things are limited - but I personally think that this "David Lee is the worst Spurs' signing in the history of the franchise" argument is one of the biggest jokes that I've ever read on this forum.

[dylankerouac]

Welcome!

[Leetonidas]

Manu is not ideal for some matchups. OKC happened to be one, but he is far from the reason we lost.

Heck the refs screwed us in 2 games, I'm still not sold we should have even lost to OKC. But the bigger problem was Diaw/West and a hobbled Duncan were outmatched by their front court.
Agree, way too many doom and gloom fans on here imo. Looking at how GS played, Spurs definitely had a shot against them and they were basically robbed 2 games against OKC and should have been up 3-0. Spurs bigs got murdered against OKC and Spurs addressed it big time. No one could have never known what Tim was gonna do and thats out of anyones control but his but to turn D-worst/fat diaw/boban/bonner into Gasol/Dedmon/Lee/Bertans/LJC is a hell of an improvement imo.

[Chinook]

I realize that this quote is directed at me - and I will admit that I have less than 1% of the knowledge regarding the CBA when compared to you, but I think that you are being completely unfair with some of your assumptions and your choice of lumping in other players' contracts with Lee's to help strengthen your point. Lee will be making ~$1.6M next year (if he opts in) which is around 1.5% of the cap. Lee's contract is the proverbial straw that broke the Spurs' back when it comes to a chance to bring in a marquee free agent next year? I understand that every penny counts and how frugal FOs have to be, but the Spurs have proven multiple times recently that they are willing to trade away/shed contracts to acquire key pieces. Why would that be any different next year just because of David Lee's signing?

Honestly, my quote wasn't solely directed at you. You aren't the only person in this thread to make that argument. Anyway, I don't think trying to take percentages of the cap is the appropriate way of looking at this. The cap has never been about numbers in the NBA. It's always been about opportunity cost. That's the reason why someone like Tyson Chandler will not be traded whereas the Hornets were willing to give up a pick to get rid of Lamb or Hawes. There's no universal standard to determine what's a good contract for a team, and that's why all these deals this summer are going to look at lot worse than the "percentage of cap" people are projecting.

The Spurs' ability to use cap space next summer was strongly tied to their ability to get out of this summer without taking on long-term salary commitments. The first major way they missed out on that was by Tim opting in. By choosing to use cap space beyond their means to sign Gasol, they traded Diaw, alienated West and had to let Boban walk. I don't necessarily think that was a bad move, but they also had to stretch Tim in order to give Manu his huge contract. That took them out of realistic shape to offer a max deal without moving yet another rotation player. Thus, the questions about trading for Westbrook or getting Paul to take a discount cropped up. But now they have even more salary commitments, making that nearly impossible. So if Parker continues his decline, it's too bad. There's little enough cap space that Pop may well just re-sign everyone, so good luck on seeing Murray with a clear path to get minutes next year.


His contract numbers have nothing to do with Duncan's, so I don't know why combining them was even brought into the picture. If you're just doing it under the assumption that "he gets hurt, or gives us nothing", couldn't you do that with ANY player with a contract that goes into next year (i.e. If Tony gets hurt or gives us nothing next year, the Spurs will have $17M committed next year for players who aren't helping the team?) I personally believe that there is a much higher chance of him contributing "some" (or seeing an opportunity to prove himself elsewhere) and opting out for a bigger paycheck next year than your scenario of getting injured or falling off of the face of the Earth and opting in, but only time will tell. Not only that, but wouldn't his contract be easy to add to a trade next offseason - even if it was to only make the numbers work?

That's not a very good example. Parker and most of the returning rotation players are not on option years. Lee, Dedmon and Gasol are. So the upside of their deals is a lot lower than the upside of guys like Parker, Leonard, LMA and Green. Those guys bounce back or step up, they still have their deals locked in. If the new bigs step up, they're potentially gone next year, because the Spurs have no Bird rights or RFA status. Now as I said, they should have the money to re-sign some of them, but that's only if those are the biggest holes the team has to fill. As we have seen for two summers in a row, the Spurs haven't been able to keep everyone they want, even with cap space.


I also realize that Lee doesn't have the possible upside of a player like Dedmon or Bertans, but if you were going to play out the Chicken Little sky-is-falling routine wouldn't you prefer it on a player with a vet minimum deal (although it is higher than a UDFA min deal) instead of a player like Dedmon (whose player option is nearly double that of Lee) or, God forbid, a player like Gasol?

You haven't read anything else I've posted in this thread, have you? I have no issue with the Lee signing. I don't even have an issue with the player option. I do have issue with the idea that the player option doesn't matter because it's for the min. The Spurs definitely sacrificed some flexibility to bring him in. It can be, and hopefully will end up being, worth it, just as it was with West. But yes, it matters. In fact, it matters to the point that it the option being significantly bigger -- like say $5 Million -- would barely make a difference to the opportunity cost.


Again, I admit that my knowledge in regards to these things are limited - but I personally think that this "David Lee is the worst Spurs' signing in the history of the franchise" argument is one of the biggest jokes that I've ever read on this forum.

Of course it's stupid. As far as I know, only one poster has even proposed that argument, and it wasn't me.

[raybies]

Count me with raybies. Pop is not likely to change his spots at this late stage. He coached so poorly last season, I am pretty depressed about what to expect this season. I just hope he doesn't make good on his threat to stay until the end of LMA's current contract. If we are lucky, he and Manu will ride off into the sunset together next off season and the new regime will move Tony, so that the Spurs can finally move forward into the future. I am also praying that Dedmon develops so well that Lee becomes a "forgotten man".

I think pop will be here for the foreseeable future. He has commitments with team USA and while i doubt he stays longer than four years that lines up with Tony's timeline. I think we have four years left with Pop and he'll retire all at once but remain in the front office for a few years. As for the coaching, it has become frustrating but at least he's been consistent. He sticks to his guns and morals which can be applauded. It's definitely old school. Some coaches I would love to have would be Jay Wright and Shaka Smart. Entire Messina is meh. If coach bud was available you do that. No one knows spurs ball and culture like him. But yeah Pop has shown amazing sometimes unbearably loyalty to the big three. I have to hope Parker and Ginobili play at a high level this year cause it could get ugly. Pop loves to reward players that have paid their dues and TP and Manu have done so in spades. This is where my belief comes that he'll ride them out wins or losses. Look at the Clippers series. Parker should have sat. And against OKC this year we lost a crucial game cause Parker wanted to play hero at the end when it was clearly Leonard's or LMA's responsibility. And you know pop wouldn't tell him know his role. He wants Tony to be aggressive cause imo if he's not he knows he's unplayable. Hopefully Pau and Tony have great chemistry cause as a fandom we have to continue to hope that Tony can stave off his regression or even have a bounce back year. It only increases or odds.

[SAGirl]

I think pop will be here for the foreseeable future. He has commitments with team USA and while i doubt he stays longer than four years that lines up with Tony's timeline. I think we have four years left with Pop and he'll retire all at once but remain in the front office for a few years. As for the coaching, it has become frustrating but at least he's been consistent. He sticks to his guns and morals which can be applauded. It's definitely old school. Some coaches I would love to have would be Jay Wright and Shaka Smart. Entire Messina is meh. If coach bud was available you do that. No one knows spurs ball and culture like him. But yeah Pop has shown amazing sometimes unbearably loyalty to the big three. I have to hope Parker and Ginobili play at a high level this year cause it could get ugly. Pop loves to reward players that have paid their dues and TP and Manu have done so in spades. This is where my belief comes that he'll ride them out wins or losses. Look at the Clippers series. Parker should have sat. And against OKC this year we lost a crucial game cause Parker wanted to play hero at the end when it was clearly Leonard's or LMA's responsibility. And you know pop wouldn't tell him know his role. He wants Tony to be aggressive cause imo if he's not he knows he's unplayable. Hopefully Pau and Tony have great chemistry cause as a fandom we have to continue to hope that Tony can stave off his regression or even have a bounce back year. It only increases or odds.
OmG truth Bomb!!!
one can only hope. Tony should have sat against Clippers that's is so right!!! This is where I get on Pop for not playing his younger guys. Look at Cojo!!! Got to the ECF and he was huge for Raptors moving on from their Choketor ways!!! OmG he was so underutilized in Spurs his last season here. POP instead moving on with Mills and Marco too who with all their shooting were also giving up layups to Austin Rivers.

Some still say if Tony doesn't get injured in game 6 against OKC in 2014 and Cojo subs for him the s second half we don't make a come back and ultimately win that game. POP even gave props to Tony for his terrible first half that he did play bc he was injured. He shouldn't have played in that state. And I am not a Tony hater. But it's true, the ironic troll thread is true, if Tony is not aggressive looking to score, what does he do? Ugh. If I was a strict Kiwi fan it would make me crazy which is why those guys are angry at Pop too (Apalisoc at least, more ignorant guys just hate on Tony).

You hit the nail on the head. I am optimistic about the season but I was honest and said I would be less so if Pop is not developing the younger guys after making such a fuss about the team needing to get younger and address deficiencies in the bench. Adding Tony on to that just complicates it more. Ppl will say we won't ring again without TD, but we have to pay more attention to Pop right now and his schemes.

[Mnky]

Agree, way too many doom and gloom fans on here imo. Looking at how GS played, Spurs definitely had a shot against them and they were basically robbed 2 games against OKC and should have been up 3-0. Spurs bigs got murdered against OKC and Spurs addressed it big time. No one could have never known what Tim was gonna do and thats out of anyones control but his but to turn D-worst/fat diaw/boban/bonner into Gasol/Dedmon/Lee/Bertans/LJC is a hell of an improvement imo.

Well said.

[ceperez]

Agree, way too many doom and gloom fans on here imo. Looking at how GS played, Spurs definitely had a shot against them and they were basically robbed 2 games against OKC and should have been up 3-0. Spurs bigs got murdered against OKC and Spurs addressed it big time. No one could have never known what Tim was gonna do and thats out of anyones control but his but to turn D-worst/fat diaw/boban/bonner into Gasol/Dedmon/Lee/Bertans/LJC is a hell of an improvement imo.

Spurs and GSW had a lot of problems against GSW. However, I just don't think that Pop made enough adjustments.

Looking at the current team roster and assuming no decline in our players. The is at least as good as last years team and should be able to reach the WCF. All you need is a shot and the Spurs have at least have a shot.

I like this signing because we really need an additional vet in the frontline. Spurs with Duncan have alway been able to get away with being smarter and craftier than the bigs of the other team. Pau, Aldridge and Lee all have been all-star players so they know what it takes.

[tholdren]

Pop coached a record breaking season. The starters outplayed the Okc starters series wise, the bench played horrible. There only so much you can do when your second unit is constantly a negative and clearly not a match-up talent wise. It's an uphill battle that doesn't get easier as a series goes on.

Lee I believe is a great pickup. He's a big who can attack the dribble, and rebound. He's a very active player who's annoying habits help as much as anything he does. He's also a competitor. He plays big against good teams. He's very versatile and his defense won't be worse than what we had on a top 5 defense, but he brings more offensive intangibles. Good signing. Look forward to seeing how he's used.
It's the competition thing. Something that fat, lazy west was supposed to bring. He didn't. West bothered me because he's a fake tough type. Lee isn't a talker, but he will attack the boards and make others pay attention when a shot goes up. Huge upgrade over the West and Boris spurs had last year.

[bklynspursfan]

I'm just curious, when has Pop and the Spurs coaching staff not helped with the development of the younger guys? We only see what goes down on the court, not behind the scenes. But even a guy like Kawhi, who granted was a higher draft pick started out on the bench. But he worked his ass off, addressing many of the initial concerns people had of him.

If you work hard, and play within the system, you'll get time.

[bklynspursfan]

Agree, way too many doom and gloom fans on here imo. Looking at how GS played, Spurs definitely had a shot against them and they were basically robbed 2 games against OKC and should have been up 3-0. Spurs bigs got murdered against OKC and Spurs addressed it big time. No one could have never known what Tim was gonna do and thats out of anyones control but his but to turn D-worst/fat diaw/boban/bonner into Gasol/Dedmon/Lee/Bertans/LJC is a hell of an improvement imo.

Exactly. I think ultimately GS vs OKC was more appealing to the league, its a business after all .

We addressed our biggest issue against them. And as it turns out, we don't have to prepare for them with Durant gone lol. But it gives up more lineup flexibility

[SAGirl]

I'm just curious, when has Pop and the Spurs coaching staff not helped with the development of the younger guys? We only see what goes down on the court, not behind the scenes. But even a guy like Kawhi, who granted was a higher draft pick started out on the bench. But he worked his ass off, addressing many of the initial concerns people had of him.

If you work hard, and play within the system, you'll get time.
Once this season is played out I will answer. I will watch him this season. Pop took a long ass time to feature Kawhi too. He was ready at least a season before he started to get plays called for him, and this is once Pop had given him all the praise in the world and had said he was the future. It took Tony literally physically breaking down in the middle of playoff series for Pop to ask Kawhi to be aggressive. I don't think Pop is as perfect as you make him seem. He has had Tim a transcendental HoF level talent most of his own career to bail him out. Even he has said he owes his career to Tim.

There are reports that Tim and Pop quarrelled and went through stages within the course of a season that they wanted to "divorce". They always made up because they appreciated each other so much, but it's not like Pop is right in everything. I remember seeing an interview two seasons ago where the media was asking Kawhi why he wasn't averaging more PPG in comparison to elite talent and questioned whether he was at that level (or something of that nature) and he said that he didn't play enough minutes. That if he was playing 5 or 6 more minutes like those other guys in the league, he would average a higher number of PPG, RB etc. I could detect that Kawhi was annoyed by the question. He didn't throw sand on anybody's eye, but it wasn't on him really.

And there are guys that need the ball in the team, which requires taking it out from his beloved. The most recent is Dejounte. In the bench there is at least Kyle. Kawhi took a long time to get plays for himself. Lamarcus was in deferential mode for half a season and didn't step it up until Tim got injured. Pop has had the luxury of having a lot of vets to go to. Didn't the man want Jason Kidd to "mentor" Tony? In reality that would have stunted Tony's growth, taken the ball out of his hands when he was young and possibly pushed him out in FA, or so I read in an article.

But like I said, I will watch Pop this season and then tell you. If it's more of the same ol, we will have an early exit from the playoffs, ppl will cut Pop slack, blame a player here or there and move on.

[sasaint]

I think pop will be here for the foreseeable future. He has commitments with team USA and while i doubt he stays longer than four years that lines up with Tony's timeline. I think we have four years left with Pop and he'll retire all at once but remain in the front office for a few years. As for the coaching, it has become frustrating but at least he's been consistent. He sticks to his guns and morals which can be applauded. It's definitely old school. Some coaches I would love to have would be Jay Wright and Shaka Smart. Entire Messina is meh. If coach bud was available you do that. No one knows spurs ball and culture like him. But yeah Pop has shown amazing sometimes unbearably loyalty to the big three. I have to hope Parker and Ginobili play at a high level this year cause it could get ugly. Pop loves to reward players that have paid their dues and TP and Manu have done so in spades. This is where my belief comes that he'll ride them out wins or losses. Look at the Clippers series. Parker should have sat. And against OKC this year we lost a crucial game cause Parker wanted to play hero at the end when it was clearly Leonard's or LMA's responsibility. And you know pop wouldn't tell him know his role. He wants Tony to be aggressive cause imo if he's not he knows he's unplayable. Hopefully Pau and Tony have great chemistry cause as a fandom we have to continue to hope that Tony can stave off his regression or even have a bounce back year. It only increases or odds.

I like Smart well enough and Jay Wright, too. My dream scenario is for Bud to return. I even wonder about Becky... Anyway, you are right that we must hope Tony has a rebound season. But I am placing my hopes on Dijon's developing much faster than anybody (including Pop) can imagine and simply forcing his way into some big minutes. I also hope Bertans becomes a mobile sharpshooter who can provide some serious firepower in case Danny or Patty sputters again. But I am hoping and praying that by some miracle Dedmon blossoms into our Hassan Whiteside. Aldridge, Gasol, Lee and Anderson do not have the mix of skills on offense or defense that we need. And age and injury are both potential issues that make me cross my fingers for our front court rotation. I believe Dedmon adds the missing ingredient of athleticism that is essential to our success this season. He is my X-factor. I believe he has to come through for the Spurs to be more than fool's gold.

[sasaint]

OmG truth Bomb!!!
one can only hope. Tony should have sat against Clippers that's is so right!!! This is where I get on Pop for not playing his younger guys. Look at Cojo!!! Got to the ECF and he was huge for Raptors moving on from their Choketor ways!!! OmG he was so underutilized in Spurs his last season here. POP instead moving on with Mills and Marco too who with all their shooting were also giving up layups to Austin Rivers.

Some still say if Tony doesn't get injured in game 6 against OKC in 2014 and Cojo subs for him the s second half we don't make a come back and ultimately win that game. POP even gave props to Tony for his terrible first half that he did play bc he was injured. He shouldn't have played in that state. And I am not a Tony hater. But it's true, the ironic troll thread is true, if Tony is not aggressive looking to score, what does he do? Ugh. If I was a strict Kiwi fan it would make me crazy which is why those guys are angry at Pop too (Apalisoc at least, more ignorant guys just hate on Tony).

You hit the nail on the head. I am optimistic about the season but I was honest and said I would be less so if Pop is not developing the younger guys after making such a fuss about the team needing to get younger and address deficiencies in the bench. Adding Tony on to that just complicates it more. Ppl will say we won't ring again without TD, but we have to pay more attention to Pop right now and his schemes.

I agree for the most part, but I believe the issue with Tony is primarily his defense. That's where he kills us.

Many posters fail to acknowledge that Tony has a fine mid-range game and has become a good (not great) 3-point shooter. In that vein he would be would be fine for 20-25 minutes a game - especially on the second unit.

Unfortunately, we do not have a slasher to replace him just yet. Without that slasher, we have nobody to collapse the opponents' defense for open, kick-out 3s. Mills, Dijon and Simmons all have their own issues and question marks at this point. Patty (who I pray bounces back more than TP!) is just not cut out to be a PG. Simmons has similar problems with his unreliable handles, although he has better slashing ability. And Dijon is the big question mark. Can he shore up his handles quickly enough to augment/press/supplant Tony in any meaningful way before season's end? Further, what kind of court vision does he really have? If Dijon fast-tracks we can be deadly. Unfortunately I am rooting for him to be fast-tracked on a team coached by Pop and headed by a PG who is one of Pop's pets. Hence, pessimism.

[Brazil]

:lol FkLA (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17213)

I hope he is fine tbh... Losing Boris for lee... Tough offseason

[Russo21]

Gasol/Dedmon
LMA/Lee/Anderson
kawhi/Bertans/Jean-Charles
Green/Manu/Simmons
Parker/Murray/Mills

Forbes/Arcidiacono/Boner I have no idea what will happen with those 3.

Is that what they are rolling with? Did I miss anyone?

Frontline looks great with Gasol, LMA, Dedmon, Lee
Small forward is set with Kawhi and the newbies Bertans and Jean-Charles
Shooting Guard is set with Green, Manu, Simmons
Point Guard is set with Parker, Murray and Mills.

Odd man out is Anderson though he'll probably just be a backup pf, backup sf, backup pg when the other reserves aren't dong their jobs. And Patty Mills will have to keep an eye on Murray stealing his spot. By the deadline if Murray is balling the front office may look to trade Mills for a position of weakness if possible.

Did I miss anyone? Is that the roster? What do you see as the deficiencies of this team?

[Obstructed_View]

I hope he is fine tbh... Losing Boris for lee... Tough offseason

Lee might not be as good as Boris 2.0, but he's a hell of a lot better than fat uninterested Boris.

[ElNono]

I hope he is fine tbh... Losing Boris for lee... Tough offseason

That and Bernie getting shafted, tough summer for him, tbh... hopefully getting his citizenship makes it all better...

[GSH]

Lee has a decent mid range shot for sure. He is capable of it. He's more of a roller, but he can hit definitely knock down the mid range shot. I watched him often being here in NY, he can knock it down.

http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/1038/david-lee/shotchart/

Smaller sample size, but considering he'll get decent looks in our offense, he should capitalize

For Lee's entire career, his average shot distance is 6.5 feet. And that's only because of his time in Golden State. For the rest of his career (non-GSW), his average shot distance is under 5 feet. And it's worth noting that when he went to GS, and started shooting more mid-range shots, his FG% from outside 5 feet went to shit. (Not that it was ever very good.) His first year with GSW, he shot .342 from 3-10 feet, and .366 the next year. That's worse than Andre Fucking Drummond. That will lose you a roster spot - and lose the team a lot of games.

Have another look at that shot chart you posted. Notice how many green dots are clustered around the basket? There are so many, you don't notice that he hardly ever shot from mid-range. Click on "Shot Zones", and notice how really, really few shots came from outside about 5-6 feet. Yeah, David Lee "can" make some mid-range jumpers - just like every other player in the league "can" make some mid-range jumpers. But night in and night out, he's made a piss-poor percentage from anywhere outside about 5-6 feet, and that's true for his entire career. To be more specific - for his ENTIRE CAREER, he has shot under .400 from 3-10 feet, once again about the same as Andre Fucking Drummond who everyone knows can only shoot from around the basket. And even that is misleading, because the range (3-10 feet) doesn't tell the whole story. Most of his makes in that range are from 3-6 feet, and most of his misses are from 6-10 feet.

Just for comparison, David West's average shot distance (career) is 10.0 feet, and his FG% from 3-10 feet is .450. Not only that, but West has shot about 30% of his shots (career) from outside 16 feet, and averaged .474. Lee has shot about 15% of his shots from outside 16 feet, and averaged .416. What the stats don't show is that West's mid-range was a major part of his teams' offense, and he got contested a LOT. Most of Lee's mid-range makes come when the defense forgets about him, and he's largely uncontested.

Lots of people remember the made shots, and not the misses. David Lee is an absolutely shitty shooter from outside about 5-6 feet, and if he's shooting mid-range shots, the team is fucked. And because of that, he clogs the middle most of the time. But, hey, he's a Spur now, so rah rah. It will be a different story around her by mid-season, if he gets any minutes to speak of.

[BackHome]

Who know maybe Pop having all these young kids in the team will get him excited to coach and develop them.

[ceperez]

For Lee's entire career, his average shot distance is 6.5 feet. And that's only because of his time in Golden State. For the rest of his career (non-GSW), his average shot distance is under 5 feet. And it's worth noting that when he went to GS, and started shooting more mid-range shots, his FG% from outside 5 feet went to shit. (Not that it was ever very good.) His first year with GSW, he shot .342 from 3-10 feet, and .366 the next year. That's worse than Andre Fucking Drummond. That will lose you a roster spot - and lose the team a lot of games.

Have another look at that shot chart you posted. Notice how many green dots are clustered around the basket? There are so many, you don't notice that he hardly ever shot from mid-range. Click on "Shot Zones", and notice how really, really few shots came from outside about 5-6 feet. Yeah, David Lee "can" make some mid-range jumpers - just like every other player in the league "can" make some mid-range jumpers. But night in and night out, he's made a piss-poor percentage from anywhere outside about 5-6 feet, and that's true for his entire career. To be more specific - for his ENTIRE CAREER, he has shot under .400 from 3-10 feet, once again about the same as Andre Fucking Drummond who everyone knows can only shoot from around the basket. And even that is misleading, because the range (3-10 feet) doesn't tell the whole story. Most of his makes in that range are from 3-6 feet, and most of his misses are from 6-10 feet.

Just for comparison, David West's average shot distance (career) is 10.0 feet, and his FG% from 3-10 feet is .450. Not only that, but West has shot about 30% of his shots (career) from outside 16 feet, and averaged .474. Lee has shot about 15% of his shots from outside 16 feet, and averaged .416. What the stats don't show is that West's mid-range was a major part of his teams' offense, and he got contested a LOT. Most of Lee's mid-range makes come when the defense forgets about him, and he's largely uncontested.

Lots of people remember the made shots, and not the misses. David Lee is an absolutely shitty shooter from outside about 5-6 feet, and if he's shooting mid-range shots, the team is fucked. And because of that, he clogs the middle most of the time. But, hey, he's a Spur now, so rah rah. It will be a different story around her by mid-season, if he gets any minutes to speak of.

Thanks for the reality check!

[tholdren]

For Lee's entire career, his average shot distance is 6.5 feet. And that's only because of his time in Golden State. For the rest of his career (non-GSW), his average shot distance is under 5 feet. And it's worth noting that when he went to GS, and started shooting more mid-range shots, his FG% from outside 5 feet went to shit. (Not that it was ever very good.) His first year with GSW, he shot .342 from 3-10 feet, and .366 the next year. That's worse than Andre Fucking Drummond. That will lose you a roster spot - and lose the team a lot of games.

Have another look at that shot chart you posted. Notice how many green dots are clustered around the basket? There are so many, you don't notice that he hardly ever shot from mid-range. Click on "Shot Zones", and notice how really, really few shots came from outside about 5-6 feet. Yeah, David Lee "can" make some mid-range jumpers - just like every other player in the league "can" make some mid-range jumpers. But night in and night out, he's made a piss-poor percentage from anywhere outside about 5-6 feet, and that's true for his entire career. To be more specific - for his ENTIRE CAREER, he has shot under .400 from 3-10 feet, once again about the same as Andre Fucking Drummond who everyone knows can only shoot from around the basket. And even that is misleading, because the range (3-10 feet) doesn't tell the whole story. Most of his makes in that range are from 3-6 feet, and most of his misses are from 6-10 feet.

Just for comparison, David West's average shot distance (career) is 10.0 feet, and his FG% from 3-10 feet is .450. Not only that, but West has shot about 30% of his shots (career) from outside 16 feet, and averaged .474. Lee has shot about 15% of his shots from outside 16 feet, and averaged .416. What the stats don't show is that West's mid-range was a major part of his teams' offense, and he got contested a LOT. Most of Lee's mid-range makes come when the defense forgets about him, and he's largely uncontested.

Lots of people remember the made shots, and not the misses. David Lee is an absolutely shitty shooter from outside about 5-6 feet, and if he's shooting mid-range shots, the team is fucked. And because of that, he clogs the middle most of the time. But, hey, he's a Spur now, so rah rah. It will be a different story around her by mid-season, if he gets any minutes to speak of.


The things you bring up are exactly what the spurs don't need. I big man jump shooter. Spurs need someone who isn't afraid to get contact down low and put back missed shots. David West was notorious for being a pussy the last few years. Dont want the enforcer to be shooting an elbow jumper when he should be bullying down low. Clogging the middle talk is irrelevant because it doesn't happen.

[TD 21]

Perfectly fine with this signing as long as Pop doesn't overplay him (which is admittedly a concern). I agree with the idea of Lee being more of the 3rd center as opposed to the 2nd PF...and in that role, I don't think you could ask for much better for the price + lack of people left on the market.

Kawhi/Simmons/Bertans
Aldridge/Anderson/Bertans
Pau/Dedmon/Lee

Looks solid to me :tu

How is that solid? Anderson, Simmons and Bertans, haven't solidified themselves as NBA players, let alone rotation ones. Dedmon has solidified himself as the former, but not the latter.

If any other team had those players slated to play the roles they are, the consensus would be that they lack depth, but because the vast majority have been consumed with the Spurs getting younger for years, the consensus is they're fine.

All this talk about "Pop overplaying the veterans" is nonsense. Look at the young player total minutes in recent seasons and consider that they were mostly non rotation players, on teams deeper in proven veterans than this one.



Yeah, but people were talking Paul and Westbrook next summer. I think it's more likely now that the biggest contract is Mills or Dedmon getting a raise.

I'm sure they'll attempt to pursue Paul and Westbrook, but they're obviously both long shots. Then it becomes a question of, is someone like Holiday, who's had significant injuries in recent years and is good but not great, enough of an upgrade to justify what they'd have to pay him?

This is likely dependent on whether Parker is back in '15 form and Murray looks a ways away from being a rotation player (his path is through Ginobili retiring, which is probably happening in a year) or they get the impression that he's not going to become a starter down the line.

[Sean Cagney]

The things you bring up are exactly what the spurs don't need. I big man jump shooter. Spurs need someone who isn't afraid to get contact down low and put back missed shots. David West was notorious for being a pussy the last few years. Dont want the enforcer to be shooting an elbow jumper when he should be bullying down low. Clogging the middle talk is irrelevant because it doesn't happen.
Truth..

[SpursFan86]

How is that solid? Anderson, Simmons and Bertans, haven't solidified themselves as NBA players, let alone rotation ones. Dedmon has solidified himself as the former, but not the latter.

If any other team had those players slated to play the roles they are, the consensus would be that they lack depth, but because the vast majority have been consumed with the Spurs getting younger for years, the consensus is they're fine.

Well first off, having Kawhi/Aldridge/Pau as the starting frontcourt is fantastic. It would take a very, very shitty bench for the frontcourt not to be considered solid. I certainly agree there are some question marks about the bench guys, but I'd be very surprised if they turn out to be that much of a disaster.

I think KA has proven himself as an NBA player, and given his age and likely improvement, I expect him to prove himself as a legitimate rotation player this year. I'm also pretty high on Dedmon and am not too worried about him getting ~15 mpg and being a capable backup C.

Backup wings is the most legitimate concern, but 1) KA can play backup 3 if necessary, 2) Green fill in at the 3 when Kawhi goes out, and 3) Kawhi is at the age where it should be no problem for him to play 35+ mpg...especially come playoff time. So I don't think having a proven backup SF is a huge concern. Would I prefer us to have someone more proven? Obviously. But given the strength at the 4/5 positions + how great Kawhi is as the starting 3, I still think our frontcourt is in great shape.

I'm far, far more worried about our backcourt situation rather than our frontcourt situation.

[dabom]

Fathead is anything but proven in the playoffs. WTF ya smoking. :lmao

[dabom]

Last year the bench sucked ass with the addition of fathead and Dwest. Let that sink in.

[SpursFan86]

KA has proven himself as an NBA-caliber player. Whether you think he's capable of being a rotation player for a contender is up for debate and I understand if someone thinks he isn't, but acting like he hasn't solidified himself as at least an NBA-caliber player is ridiculous (and that is what TD21 was talking about) IMO.

I mean, look at the 10th-15th guys for most NBA teams. You're seriously saying KA hasn't proven himself to be as good as those sort of players? I think that's pretty absurd.

[dabom]

And I'm talking about the playoffs for the people that don't get that. :lol

[dabom]

And I'm talking about the playoffs for the people that don't get that. :lol


KA has proven himself as an NBA-caliber player. Whether you think he's capable of being a rotation player for a contender is up for debate and I understand if someone thinks he isn't, but acting like he hasn't solidified himself as at least an NBA-caliber player is ridiculous (and that is what TD21 was talking about) IMO.

I mean, look at the 10th-15th guys for most NBA teams. You're seriously saying KA hasn't proven himself to be as good as those sort of players? I think that's pretty absurd.



Knew someone was gonna miss the point. :lmao

[SpursFan86]

Knew someone was gonna miss the point. :lmao

Are you retarded? I was responding to TD 21. He said that Anderson hasn't solidified himself as an NBA player. I was disagreeing with that. Then you come in with a stupid remark talking about how KA hasn't proven himself to be a guy you can trust in the playoffs, when nothing in my post ever said that I believed he's already proven himself as a capable playoff rotation guy.

[dabom]

Are you retarded? I was responding to TD 21. He said that Anderson hasn't solidified himself as an NBA player. I was disagreeing with that. Then you come in with a stupid remark talking about how KA hasn't proven himself to be a guy you can trust in the playoffs, when nothing in my post ever said that I believed he's already proven himself as a capable playoff rotation guy.

Which is why I thought your reply was weird. You're right here. I admit a mistake.

[SpursFan86]

Which is why I thought your reply was weird. You're right here. I admit a mistake.

Fair enough. I agree he hasn't done anything so far to prove he's capable of playing important playoff minutes. Last year he really just proved he could do well against the average NBA bench. Hopefully he'll change that this upcoming season, because we'll definitely need him to be a rotation guy in the playoffs this year.

[dabom]

Fair enough. I agree he hasn't done anything so far to prove he's capable of playing important playoff minutes. Last year he really just proved he could do well against the average NBA bench. Hopefully he'll change that this upcoming season, because we'll definitely need him to be a rotation guy in the playoffs this year.

Which is funny because only way to prove you are good enough for the playoffs is by playing in them. Please no. :lol

[cd021]

Gasol/Dedmon
LMA/Lee/Anderson
kawhi/Bertans/Jean-Charles
Green/Manu/Simmons
Parker/Murray/Mills

Forbes/Arcidiacono/Boner I have no idea what will happen with those 3.

Is that what they are rolling with? Did I miss anyone?

Frontline looks great with Gasol, LMA, Dedmon, Lee
Small forward is set with Kawhi and the newbies Bertans and Jean-Charles
Shooting Guard is set with Green, Manu, Simmons
Point Guard is set with Parker, Murray and Mills.

Odd man out is Anderson though he'll probably just be a backup pf, backup sf, backup pg when the other reserves aren't dong their jobs. And Patty Mills will have to keep an eye on Murray stealing his spot. By the deadline if Murray is balling the front office may look to trade Mills for a position of weakness if possible.

Did I miss anyone? Is that the roster? What do you see as the deficiencies of this team?

Anderson is definitely the backup 3 and will probably combo forward in the PS if the spurs play the Warriors.

Signing Lee probably means that both Bertans and Simmons aren't going to have a impact this season, they will still get opportunities but Anderson playing at the 3 means that Simmons won't have steady minutes at SF and will be a 3rd stringer.

See no reason why Murray is ahead of Mills. Mills is clearly still ahead of Murray, Parker and Mills essentially split the PG minutes 27.5/20.5 last season and with Parker coming off the Olympics It is more than likely that split look something like 27/21. Murray doesn't look anywhere near ready to step in and play 21 mpg. He might be asked to do so after next season when the Spurs may have to let Mills walk but not now.


Parker/Mills/Murray
Green/Manu/Simmons
KL/Anderson/Bertans
LMA/Lee/LJC
Gasol/Dedmon

[TD 21]

Well first off, having Kawhi/Aldridge/Pau as the starting frontcourt is fantastic. It would take a very, very shitty bench for the frontcourt not to be considered solid. I certainly agree there are some question marks about the bench guys, but I'd be very surprised if they turn out to be that much of a disaster.

I think KA has proven himself as an NBA player, and given his age and likely improvement, I expect him to prove himself as a legitimate rotation player this year. I'm also pretty high on Dedmon and am not too worried about him getting ~15 mpg and being a capable backup C.

Backup wings is the most legitimate concern, but 1) KA can play backup 3 if necessary, 2) Green fill in at the 3 when Kawhi goes out, and 3) Kawhi is at the age where it should be no problem for him to play 35+ mpg...especially come playoff time. So I don't think having a proven backup SF is a huge concern. Would I prefer us to have someone more proven? Obviously. But given the strength at the 4/5 positions + how great Kawhi is as the starting 3, I still think our frontcourt is in great shape.

I'm far, far more worried about our backcourt situation rather than our frontcourt situation.

What you said and I responded to, had nothing to do with the starters or the front court compared to the back court. They might well be the best starting front court in the league, or maybe this is the season Gasol falls off a cliff. People act like he's 32 or something, when in reality he's 36, with mileage that makes him closer to 40.

Debatable as to whether Anderson (he can only play small forward next to a stretch power forward; a Anderson-Lee-Dedmon front court isn't tenable in '16) has proven himself an NBA player, but he damn sure hasn't proven himself a rotation player. I'm not saying he won't and I'm relatively high on Dedmon too, but this is about at this writing; not predictions.



KA has proven himself as an NBA-caliber player. Whether you think he's capable of being a rotation player for a contender is up for debate and I understand if someone thinks he isn't, but acting like he hasn't solidified himself as at least an NBA-caliber player is ridiculous (and that is what TD21 was talking about) IMO.

I mean, look at the 10th-15th guys for most NBA teams. You're seriously saying KA hasn't proven himself to be as good as those sort of players? I think that's pretty absurd.

That's just it: Many third unit players are in fact fringe players, especially with teams trending more towards "developmental" players for those spots.

[BillMc]

Who know maybe Pop having all these young kids in the team will get him excited to coach and develop them.

Your words to Pop's ears. :toast

[SAGirl]

Well first off, having Kawhi/Aldridge/Pau as the starting frontcourt is fantastic. It would take a very, very shitty bench for the frontcourt not to be considered solid. I certainly agree there are some question marks about the bench guys, but I'd be very surprised if they turn out to be that much of a disaster.

I think KA has proven himself as an NBA player, and given his age and likely improvement, I expect him to prove himself as a legitimate rotation player this year. I'm also pretty high on Dedmon and am not too worried about him getting ~15 mpg and being a capable backup C.

Backup wings is the most legitimate concern, but 1) KA can play backup 3 if necessary, 2) Green fill in at the 3 when Kawhi goes out, and 3) Kawhi is at the age where it should be no problem for him to play 35+ mpg...especially come playoff time. So I don't think having a proven backup SF is a huge concern. Would I prefer us to have someone more proven? Obviously. But given the strength at the 4/5 positions + how great Kawhi is as the starting 3, I still think our frontcourt is in great shape.

I'm far, far more worried about our backcourt situation rather than our frontcourt situation.
I agree. :tu
Kyle has indeed proven to be an NBA player. He already played a lot of minutes for Pop outside of garbage time and earned the coaches trust in real games. He's still a very young player and so versatile that it's realistic to expect him to have an NBA career at this point.

[SAGirl]

That's just it: Many third unit players are in fact fringe players, especially with teams trending more towards "developmental" players for those spots.
He was not an exclusive third unit player at all. He played a lot of third unit minutes to develop because so many games reached garbage time early... but depending how you define "third unit" Boris was that very often.

[SAGirl]

Anderson is definitely the backup 3 and will probably combo forward in the PS if the spurs play the Warriors.

Signing Lee probably means that both Bertans and Simmons aren't going to have a impact this season, they will still get opportunities but Anderson playing at the 3 means that Simmons won't have steady minutes at SF and will be a 3rd stringer.

See no reason why Murray is ahead of Mills. Mills is clearly still ahead of Murray, Parker and Mills essentially split the PG minutes 27.5/20.5 last season and with Parker coming off the Olympics It is more than likely that split look something like 27/21. Murray doesn't look anywhere near ready to step in and play 21 mpg. He might be asked to do so after next season when the Spurs may have to let Mills walk but not now.


Parker/Mills/Murray
Green/Manu/Simmons
KL/Anderson/Bertans
LMA/Lee/LJC
Gasol/Dedmon
I agree with this being the depth chart in all likelihood. I expect the team will be better with Bertans or Anderson at the 4 eventually instead of Lee, but it's impossible to predict that right now with us not knowing if Bertans will be good enough his rookie season at anything else other than shooting a 3, such that Pop will play him. That's just how Pop is. I do hope like others that he makes it.

[TD 21]

He was not an exclusive third unit player at all. He played a lot of third unit minutes to develop because so many games reached garbage time early... but depending how you define "third unit" Boris was that very often.

I never said he was. He was a third unit caliber player though.

This is all more or less semantics anyway. Whether he's proven himself an NBA player or not, he hasn't proven himself a rotation player. I don't care how Pop utilized him. Back in '09, Mason and Bonner were starting, but that didn't make them starters.


Bertans will probably be the 12th man. His minutes probably come down to how much/well Anderson and especially Simmons shoot the 3. If they provide enough to get by, he has no chance at cracking the rotation.

[SAGirl]

I never said he was. He was a third unit caliber player though.

This is all more or less semantics anyway. Whether he's proven himself an NBA player or not, he hasn't proven himself a rotation player. I don't care how Pop utilized him. Back in '09, Mason and Bonner were starting, but that didn't make them starters.


Bertans will probably be the 12th man. His minutes probably come down to how much/well Anderson and especially Simmons shoot the 3. If they provide enough to get by, he has no chance at cracking the rotation.
Well a lot of it is subjective for your standards though and yes semantics. If at some point a guy started, he was a starter. If a guy was in the second unit rotation, he was at that time a rotation player and considering his age, this is how many players in good teams start in the league.

There are some who start the opposite, come in young to a lottery team that feels compelled to play them, they prove to be not worth it and fall off the face of the earth. If they persevere maybe after a few years they emerge as a roleplayer somewhere. Considering he started the opposite, earning his playing time the hard way, it's not like one would expect him at his age to stall or regress. He has made small improvements gradually, not a flash in a pan like Simmons to fizzle out either. He obviously doesn't or didn't have a complete game. He didn't come into the league as a shooter and he needed to shoot the NBA 3 badly, but it looks like he's making progress there. Considering he rebounds, and defends at a better than average player, I don't know how you can say he's not an NBA player.

Edit: I had to edit bc I missed the Simmons comment. I do think if Simmons is not shooting the 3 he's reduced to playing the SG spot when Manu is resting or someone is injured and even in that case, he might face competition from Dejounte who Pop may want to see in those games too. He passed up a lot of shots in SL, and he was doing that in the RS too. He shot at an acceptable % but still passed way too many shots when he was open, and with bad results TO the ball. I expect him to be motivated to play well enough bc it's a contract year for him, but he's unpredictable.

[TD 21]

Well a lot of it is subjective for your standards though and yes semantics. If at some point a guy started, he was a starter. If a guy was in the second unit rotation, he was at that time a rotation player and considering his age, this is how many players in good teams start in the league.

There are some who start the opposite, come in young to a lottery team that feels compelled to play them, they prove to be not worth it and fall off the face of the earth. If they persevere maybe after a few years they emerge as a roleplayer somewhere. Considering he started the opposite, earning his playing time the hard way, it's not like one would expect him at his age to stall or regress. He has made small improvements gradually, not a flash in a pan like Simmons to fizzle out either. He obviously doesn't or didn't have a complete game. He didn't come into the league as a shooter and he needed to shoot the NBA 3 badly, but it looks like he's making progress there. Considering he rebounds, and defends at a better than average player, I don't know how you can say he's not an NBA player.

Of course it's subjective, but a lot of times it's common sense. I already conceded that it was debatable in his case as to whether he's proven he's an NBA player, but predictably you and others have gotten hung up on that.

The point is, generally speaking, I don't see how anyone could say, at this writing, that the backup front court is "solid". If you predict it will be, fine; that's subjective obviously. But right now, it's a bunch of question marks and he's one of them.

[SAGirl]

Of course it's subjective, but a lot of times it's common sense. I already conceded that it was debatable in his case as to whether he's proven he's an NBA player, but predictably you and others have gotten hung up on that.

The point is, generally speaking, I don't see how anyone could say, at this writing, that the backup front court is "solid". If you predict it will be, fine; that's subjective obviously. But right now, it's a bunch of question marks and he's one of them.
Fair enough. I got your point. :tu

[kaji157]

I think one of Anderson/Simmons will not stay on the team, and may be traded alone (for a pick) or together (for one player) to set the roster.

So far Anderson is reliable in some situations but unplayable in others, seems like a player that would thrive in an offense around him, but he might never get that in the NBA.
Was very good when he had to decide, but the reality is that Spurs need players to perform at certain roles, and Anderson performs well at a role not needed now, but not so well at what the team needs from him.

[skulls138]

If by "unplayable" you mean the OKC series, I think he deserves a shot at redemption. We all got the case of the over confidence bug and frankly they surprised the whole team.

As for what the Spurs need? Sure having cookie cutter type players to plug in here or there are great for a coach but I think the Spurs know who KA is and will probably give him a legitimate shot at what his strengths are because it would be a complete waste to go half way with him.

[dabom]

If by "unplayable" you mean the OKC series, I think he deserves a shot at redemption. We all got the case of the over confidence bug and frankly they surprised the whole team.

As for what the Spurs need? Sure having cookie cutter type players to plug in here or there are great for a coach but I think the Spurs know who KA is and will probably give him a legitimate shot at what his strengths are because it would be a complete waste to go half way with him.

What are his strengths?

[Brazil]

That and Bernie getting shafted, tough summer for him, tbh... hopefully getting his citizenship makes it all better...

:lol

[cutewizard]

Gasol/Dedmon
LMA/Lee/Anderson
kawhi/Bertans/Jean-Charles
Green/Manu/Simmons
Parker/Murray/Mills


Forbes/Arcidiacono/Boner I have no idea what will happen with those 3.

Is that what they are rolling with? Did I miss anyone?

Frontline looks great with Gasol, LMA, Dedmon, Lee
Small forward is set with Kawhi and the newbies Bertans and Jean-Charles
Shooting Guard is set with Green, Manu, Simmons
Point Guard is set with Parker, Murray and Mills.

Odd man out is Anderson though he'll probably just be a backup pf, backup sf, backup pg when the other reserves aren't dong their jobs. And Patty Mills will have to keep an eye on Murray stealing his spot. By the deadline if Murray is balling the front office may look to trade Mills for a position of weakness if possible.

Did I miss anyone? Is that the roster? What do you see as the deficiencies of this team?

---------------------------------------------------------

Garino says "Hi!"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We_HKXNk5Gw

[Kawhitstorm]

Lots of people remember the made shots, and not the misses. David Lee is an absolutely shitty shooter from outside about 5-6 feet, and if he's shooting mid-range shots, the team is fucked. And because of that, he clogs the middle most of the time. But, hey, he's a Spur now, so rah rah. It will be a different story around her by mid-season, if he gets any minutes to speak of.

Lee is going to be used on offense in a similar manner to Tiago aka as a roll man (Lee's shooting chart in Dallas was basically the same as Tiago's career shooting chart). I actually feel like the best combination is Dedmon/LMA & Pau/Lee since LMA doesn't want to play center while Pau prefers to camp in the paint on defense. Dedmon's stone hands also won't be an issue if he plays w/ LMA/Porker since he won't be getting many passes.:lol

Lee would be fine w/ Pau on offense since Pau is an excellent mid-range shooter & can play high-low if Lee has a mismatch in the post against backup 4s.

[skulls138]

What are his strengths?Passing....having the ball in his hand

[cd021]

Well a lot of it is subjective for your standards though and yes semantics. If at some point a guy started, he was a starter. If a guy was in the second unit rotation, he was at that time a rotation player and considering his age, this is how many players in good teams start in the league.

There are some who start the opposite, come in young to a lottery team that feels compelled to play them, they prove to be not worth it and fall off the face of the earth. If they persevere maybe after a few years they emerge as a roleplayer somewhere. Considering he started the opposite, earning his playing time the hard way, it's not like one would expect him at his age to stall or regress. He has made small improvements gradually, not a flash in a pan like Simmons to fizzle out either. He obviously doesn't or didn't have a complete game. He didn't come into the league as a shooter and he needed to shoot the NBA 3 badly, but it looks like he's making progress there. Considering he rebounds, and defends at a better than average player, I don't know how you can say he's not an NBA player.

Edit: I had to edit bc I missed the Simmons comment. I do think if Simmons is not shooting the 3 he's reduced to playing the SG spot when Manu is resting or someone is injured and even in that case, he might face competition from Dejounte who Pop may want to see in those games too. He passed up a lot of shots in SL, and he was doing that in the RS too. He shot at an acceptable % but still passed way too many shots when he was open, and with bad results TO the ball. I expect him to be motivated to play well enough bc it's a contract year for him, but he's unpredictable.

I am rally intrigued what Simmons looks like with a consistent 3pt shot, he shot the ball at a high percentage last year but that was at a low volume (less than 20% of his shots came from 3pt). He seems to have a knack to be able to attack closeouts and get to and finish at the rim which is rare for a Spurs perimeter player not named Parker, Manu, or Leonard. If he can be more of a threat then that could open up his drive game, I think the same can be said for KA.

The Lee signing means that he likely won't see nearly as much floor time as he would have had KA played the backup for and Simmons was the backup 3. He's the 3rd SG, like you said but I don't see Pop giving minutes to Murray at the 2 guard over Simmons in the event of injury/rest. Simmons contract situation is similar to Bobans in the sense that he is an Arenas FA. His minutes being cut helps aid the Spurs in keeping him but also makes the possibility of him emerging as a rotation player unlikely this season

[cd021]

I think one of Anderson/Simmons will not stay on the team, and may be traded alone (for a pick) or together (for one player) to set the roster.

So far Anderson is reliable in some situations but unplayable in others, seems like a player that would thrive in an offense around him, but he might never get that in the NBA.
Was very good when he had to decide, but the reality is that Spurs need players to perform at certain roles, and Anderson performs well at a role not needed now, but not so well at what the team needs from him.

I think both factor into the Spurs future plans. Simmons and KA only combine to make $ 2 million this season and Simmons is has a QA of $1.2 million after next season, if the Spurs really like him and think that he can be the answer at backup SG in the short term post Manu then they have an opportunity to lock him on a reasonable contract and expect him to outperform his new deal.

I don't think Simmons would net more than a second rounder and KA may net a future first, if a team really likes his game but I think that they are more valuable to the Spurs. Spurs aren't necessarily hurting in terms of picks and young prospects either so move Simmons for a second doesn't make much since when they have all of their picks going forward (except for a 2022 second rounder)

[ceperez]

I think both factor into the Spurs future plans. Simmons and KA only combine to make $ 2 million this season and Simmons is has a QA of $1.2 million after next season, if the Spurs really like him and think that he can be the answer at backup SG in the short term post Manu then they have an opportunity to lock him on a reasonable contract and expect him to outperform his new deal.

I don't think Simmons would net more than a second rounder and KA may net a future first, if a team really likes his game but I think that they are more valuable to the Spurs. Spurs aren't necessarily hurting in terms of picks and young prospects either so move Simmons for a second doesn't make much since when they have all of their picks going forward (except for a 2022 second rounder)

I don't get why some commentators are so quick to want to trade these two players when they earn so little money. What the hell do they think they can get from them? Another 2nd round draft pick that needs to go to Austin to be serviceable? Young serviceable players go for a lot of money these days!!

[ceperez]

Lee is going to be used on offense in a similar manner to Tiago aka as a roll man (Lee's shooting chart in Dallas was basically the same as Tiago's career shooting chart). I actually feel like the best combination is Dedmon/LMA & Pau/Lee since LMA doesn't want to play center while Pau prefers to camp in the paint on defense. Dedmon's stone hands also won't be an issue if he plays w/ LMA/Porker since he won't be getting many passes.:lol

Lee would be fine w/ Pau on offense since Pau is an excellent mid-range shooter & can play high-low if Lee has a mismatch in the post against backup 4s.

Dude is a good roll man. Aldridge is not used much as a roll man and actually doesn't even finish as well as Tiago.

[kaji157]

I think both factor into the Spurs future plans. Simmons and KA only combine to make $ 2 million this season and Simmons is has a QA of $1.2 million after next season, if the Spurs really like him and think that he can be the answer at backup SG in the short term post Manu then they have an opportunity to lock him on a reasonable contract and expect him to outperform his new deal.

I don't think Simmons would net more than a second rounder and KA may net a future first, if a team really likes his game but I think that they are more valuable to the Spurs. Spurs aren't necessarily hurting in terms of picks and young prospects either so move Simmons for a second doesn't make much since when they have all of their picks going forward (except for a 2022 second rounder)


I don't get why some commentators are so quick to want to trade these two players when they earn so little money. What the hell do they think they can get from them? Another 2nd round draft pick that needs to go to Austin to be serviceable? Young serviceable players go for a lot of money these days!!

Nothing against them, but if you look at better prospects that have been here, George Hill was here and was trade, Joseph and Blair were let go. I think if the Spurs FO feels these guys are good but don´t cut it maybe they´ll try a trade to get something for them.

For example, imagine Arccidiacono is cut now but gets a toros contract, and KA and Simmons have trouble staying in the rotation, then you can package both with Mills and go after a 5 million player before the deadline. Not bad for me.

I don´t think the FO will repeat what happened with Cory and DeJuan.

[spurraider21]

For sure - the potential for SA to have no shot at truly adding to the roster next year is definitely there, but that is just one year.

I do think that it's pretty unlikely that all the guys opt in but the most important one is Pau. Have to see how he fits and SA may want to keep him. Plus, for 2 years in a row now, SA has traded someone to help free up space.

If Pau opts in (and he's healthy and fit well) SA could still free up his money by moving TP or Danny and be in the same as if he opted out (or close). It's definitely a tougher path that will cost players if all of them opt in, but there are ways as you know.

I mean, the guys like Dedmon hopefully do opt in because having cheap role players is great, but that probably only happens if they play bad which means SA might not want them :lol
can we stop bringing this point up? the spurs will be reluctant to move him because of "loyalty" and nobody wants him anyway

[DPG21920]

can we stop bringing this point up? the spurs will be reluctant to move him because of "loyalty" and nobody wants him anyway

Mostly agree on the first point, highly disagree on the 2nd point. But if it comes down to SA getting Westbrook I can Absoultely see SA having that trade on the table (even if it's unlikely).

[cd021]

Nothing against them, but if you look at better prospects that have been here, George Hill was here and was trade, Joseph and Blair were let go. I think if the Spurs FO feels these guys are good but don´t cut it maybe they´ll try a trade to get something for them.

For example, imagine Arccidiacono is cut now but gets a toros contract, and KA and Simmons have trouble staying in the rotation, then you can package both with Mills and go after a 5 million player before the deadline. Not bad for me.

I don´t think the FO will repeat what happened with Cory and DeJuan.

Blair had an excellent rookie season but continued to decline until his fourth year he was out of the rotation, after Splitter rolled his ankle and Diaw had surgey he had a good couple of games in the 2013 playoffs but he was largely done as a rotation player by the end of his time here, the Spurs let him walk in FA.

Spurs wanted to keep Cojo but had to renounce him for the LMA signning
when you compare Cojo's first two years to KA's first two seasons, KA had a significantly better start to his career and looks more of a polished product when compared to Cojo who showed flashes of game but was inconsistent.

If the Spurs were to package all three players they would be able to get a player(s) making about $8.5 million back but would certainly lose depth. Mills averaged about 21 mpg last season, essentially splitting the PG 27/21 with Parker, unless Murray is way ahead of schedule or the Spurs want Manu to play backup PG that is highly unlikely to happen. KA is the backup 3 and may wind up playing backup 3 and 4 in a series against the Warriors. Simmons at this point is a depth guy behind Green and Manu. I don't think there is an impact player worth shorting the Spurs depth for $8.5 million.

[kobyz]

Spurs need to stop signing washed up Davids...

[ceperez]

Nothing against them, but if you look at better prospects that have been here, George Hill was here and was trade, Joseph and Blair were let go. I think if the Spurs FO feels these guys are good but don´t cut it maybe they´ll try a trade to get something for them.

For example, imagine Arccidiacono is cut now but gets a toros contract, and KA and Simmons have trouble staying in the rotation, then you can package both with Mills and go after a 5 million player before the deadline. Not bad for me.

I don´t think the FO will repeat what happened with Cory and DeJuan.

What do you mean repeat what happened to Cory and DeJuan. Spurs maximized their potential on cheap contracts. I'm not sure how you can trade an expiring rookie scale contract and parlay that into a better player. At best you go the George Hill for Leonard route. However, I doubt many teams were lining up to trade their first round picks for either Cory or DeJuan.

[turb0time]

President of my company is from SF and has been a Warriors fan since the 70s. He gave me his 2 cents on the signing:

"Good team guy and was really part of the original resurgence of the Warriors along with Steph. He was very popular in the Bay Area. He’s been an All-Star a handful of times and was a 20 – 10 guy for the Knicks before he was traded to the Dubs. Not much of a defender but pretty good scorer, rebounder and passer. Dubs didn’t have much room for him because he couldn’t defend. I think he’ll be a great part of Pop’s culture in SA."

[Killakobe81]

Raven is a fucking idiot.

:lol
Wouldnt go THAT far but his posts almost always lean negative.
The Spurs get a proven rebounder and scorer for the minimum.
but argues Kmart and his empty stats is a better player?

[Kawhitstorm]

President of my company is from SF and has been a Warriors fan since the 70s. He gave me his 2 cents on the signing:

"Good team guy and was really part of the original resurgence of the Warriors along with Steph. He was very popular in the Bay Area. He’s been an All-Star a handful of times and was a 20 – 10 guy for the Knicks before he was traded to the Dubs. Not much of a defender but pretty good scorer, rebounder and passer. Dubs didn’t have much room for him because he couldn’t defend. I think he’ll be a great part of Pop’s culture in SA."

Last time Lee was healthy & a legit rotation player on a playoff team in 2013-14 he had a positive on/off rating both in the regular season & postseason: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02/on-off/2014/)

He also had a positive on/off in the 2015 postseason when he was being used in spot minutes like Bonner.:lol

[RD2191]

President of my company is from SF and has been a Warriors fan since the 70s. He gave me his 2 cents on the signing:

"Good team guy and was really part of the original resurgence of the Warriors along with Steph. He was very popular in the Bay Area. He’s been an All-Star a handful of times and was a 20 – 10 guy for the Knicks before he was traded to the Dubs. Not much of a defender but pretty good scorer, rebounder and passer. Dubs didn’t have much room for him because he couldn’t defend. I think he’ll be a great part of Pop’s culture in SA."

Great insight, he should work for ESPN. :rolleyes

[Chris]

Only three players have totaled 10,000 points, 6,000 rebounds and 1,500 assists in the last 10 years: Tim Duncan Paul Gasol and our newest addition: DAVID LEE

[tholdren]

Only three players have totaled 10,000 points, 6,000 rebounds and 1,500 assists in the last 10 years: Tim Duncan Paul Gasol and our newest addition: DAVID LEE
Cool stat. Although Im sure the KL fanbase will tell you something better.

[Kawhitstorm]

Only three players have totaled 10,000 points, 6,000 rebounds and 1,500 assists in the last 10 years: Tim Duncan Paul Gasol and our newest addition: DAVID LEE

:wow:lobt2::wow

[cutewizard]

:claw

[Spur|n|Austin]

Cool stat. Although Im sure the KL fanbase will tell you something better.

The fuck do you mean the KL fanbase? Who's not a fan of Kawhi?

[monkeypunk]

Cool stat. Although Im sure the KL fanbase will tell you something better.


The fuck do you mean the KL fanbase? Who's not a fan of Kawhi?

Not enough room in the Mormon heart for Jimmer and an actual talent.

Also, who knew there were Mormons in China, :huh...

[tholdren]

me like read

[tholdren]

i think he means the dumbass kl fans who always post about kl being goat with meaningless stats- see the one about ts%

[dabom]

The fuck do you mean the KL fanbase? Who's not a fan of Kawhi?

Best player on the Spurs. Must have an agenda to like him. :lmao

[Calispursfan11]

David Lee not looking too good here where RJ dunks on him and rides him like a donkey lol.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxTQa5dALtU

[Sean Cagney]

Best player on the Spurs. Must have an agenda to like him. :lmao

Whoever is a Spurs fan and does not like Kawhi is just not really a team fan, he is our best player and he was 2nd in MVP voting so dude is the future. I like the whole team (Except Bonner of course) but he is my current Fave Spurs player now that Timmay hung em up.

[tholdren]

Best player on the Spurs. Must have an agenda to like him. :lmao
no - but to make threads about him being the best spur or player ever is as dumb as the Kyle Anderson threads.

For instance - KL won Finals MVP - best spur of all time? It's typical ignorant, out of context garbage by the new era fans.

[dabom]

no - but to make threads about him being the best spur or player ever is as dumb as the Kyle Anderson threads.

For instance - KL won Finals MVP - best spur of all time? It's typical ignorant, out of context garbage by the new era fans.

Who the fuck has ever said that? Not me. So fucking post atleast 2 links to it you stupid fuck or else you're just fucking lying. :lmao

[tholdren]

Who the fuck has ever said that? Not me. So fucking post atleast 2 links to it you stupid fuck or else you're just fucking lying. :lmao
you always chime in on this garbage. change avatar or it did happen

[dabom]

you always chime in on this garbage. change avatar or it did happen

:lol


I'm done. :lol

[spursistan]

Anyone who thought Lee would be this good is lying through his teeth :lol..what sneaky good pickup..

14/11/3 in 36 fuckin' minutes :wow

[spursistan]

Imagine having Fat ass Diaw instead :lmao..

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't like having white American players in 2017, but he's been great in his role:tu

Would get killed on defense as a starter(like we saw tonight) in the playoffs, though..

[100%duncan]

This guy is good

[Mnky]

Pop coached a record breaking season. The starters outplayed the Okc starters series wise, the bench played horrible. There only so much you can do when your second unit is constantly a negative and clearly not a match-up talent wise. It's an uphill battle that doesn't get easier as a series goes on.

Lee I believe is a great pickup. He's a big who can attack the dribble, and rebound. He's a very active player who's annoying habits help as much as anything he does. He's also a competitor. He plays big against good teams. He's very versatile and his defense won't be worse than what we had on a top 5 defense, but he brings more offensive intangibles. Good signing. Look forward to seeing how he's used.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

^ Do you want a fucking cookie? A pat on the back? Jesus fucking christ

[HarlemHeat37]

^ Do you want a fucking cookie? A pat on the back? Jesus fucking christ

:lol

[LoneStarState'sPride]

I was excited to get him. He's one of those guys who you just always thought would make a good Spur.

Didn't think he'd be this great of a fit, though.

[bic50]

Really like David lee. Way better then west. Hopefully Spurs keep him.

[Kawhitstorm]

Anyone who thought Lee would be this good is lying through his teeth :lol..what sneaky good pickup..

**Clears throat***: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262633&page=5&p=8874091

[Mnky]

^ Do you want a fucking cookie? A pat on the back? Jesus fucking christ

:lol

It was a response homie, Read the thread and save that cookie for your upset ego.

[cutewizard]

Really like David lee. Way better then west. Hopefully Spurs keep him.


:bobo

[cutewizard]

This guy is good


:bobo

:lobt2:

[r0drig0lac]

^ Do you want a fucking cookie? A pat on the back? Jesus fucking christ

sounds like the standard spurstalk poster

[Dverde]

I'd rather keep Lee/Dedmon than Gasol. But Gasol is going to opt in.

[tholdren]

I don't like having white American players in 2017, but he's been great in his role:tu

Would get killed on defense as a starter(like we saw tonight) in the playoffs, though..
But he started, and was arguably the best player on the court. Easily the most efficient.

[daledondale]

What a nice surprise this guy.

[picnroll]

Spurs loading up on cancers I see. PATFO :lol

Worst take on the thread.

[CGD]

I really liked him as a roll guys last night. Complemented LMA in the starting line up well.

[AFMadison]

I don't like having white American players in 2017, but he's been great in his role:tu

Would get killed on defense as a starter(like we saw tonight) in the playoffs, though..
Idiot

[HarlemHeat37]

But he started, and was arguably the best player on the court. Easily the most efficient.

He got destroyed on defense and didn't provide any help or deterrence, whatsoever..

He's fine in his role, though..

[bklynspursfan]

Worst take on the thread.

There were lots in this thread, but yea. Lee was never a cancer smh

[bklynspursfan]

826481680135442432

[Chinook]

He's been a terrific C for the Spurs.

[Joseph Kony]

minus his lack of defense...i swear this dude does not know what "rotate" or "help defense" means :lol

[GSH]

He's been a terrific C for the Spurs.


Well he's sure as hell an upgrade on Diaw and West. I still wish he was about 3 inches taller, and I still like him better with a full-sized big man on the floor with him. But I'm glad he signed with the Spurs, and I'd put his effort/toughness up against anyone on the team.

[Phenomanul]

Well he's sure as hell an upgrade on Diaw and West. I still wish he was about 3 inches taller, and I still like him better with a full-sized big man on the floor with him. But I'm glad he signed with the Spurs, and I'd put his effort/toughness up against anyone on the team.

Plus he has a bone to pick with GSW... if ever that matchup comes to fruition. That can only be a good thing.

[BillMc]

He's been a terrific C for the Spurs.

Chinook you're the resident cap expert. If Lee opts out, will we still have his full bird rights (after only 1 year?). And, if so, can they do what they did with Manu. Have a verbal agreement and basically sign him to anything they want once all the cap space is used up. His cap hold right now should be pretty low, right? So holding onto him won't be too much an impediment for other signings. Or does opting out clear the cap hold?

Thanks.

[BillMc]

Plus he has a bone to pick with GSW... if ever that matchup comes to fruition. That can only be a good thing.


Go back and watch their 2015 championship. Lee's box score isn't much but he really changed the flow of the Finals off the bench. He's a playmaker. Hope he can do the same for us.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Plus he has a bone to pick with GSW... if ever that matchup comes to fruition. That can only be a good thing.

I'd love to see him play with a big chip on his shoulder in that potential series!

[DPG21920]

Chinook you're the resident cap expert. If Lee opts out, will we still have his full bird rights (after only 1 year?). And, if so, can they do what they did with Manu. Have a verbal agreement and basically sign him to anything they want once all the cap space is used up. His cap hold right now should be pretty low, right? So holding onto him won't be too much an impediment for other signings. Or does opting out clear the cap hold?

Thanks.

Spurs have Lee's non-bird rights I believe. If he opts out his cap hold is 120% of his previous salary. They can sign other free agents with his cap hold in place (which is pretty low) then re-sign Lee to a salary starting at up to 120% of his salary in the previous season(not over the maximum salary, of course), 120% of the minimum salary, or the amount needed to tender a qualifying offer, whichever is greater. Raises are limited to 4.5% of the salary in the first year of the contract, and contracts are limited to four seasons when this exception is used.

Chinook can confirm but I think this is where SA is at with Lee.

[BillMc]

Spurs have Lee's non-bird rights I believe. If he opts out his cap hold is 120% of his previous salary. They can sign other free agents with his cap hold in place (which is pretty low) then re-sign Lee to a salary starting at up to 120% of his salary in the previous season(not over the maximum salary, of course), 120% of the minimum salary, or the amount needed to tender a qualifying offer, whichever is greater. Raises are limited to 4.5% of the salary in the first year of the contract, and contracts are limited to four seasons when this exception is used.

Chinook can confirm but I think this is where SA is at with Lee.

Many thanks. :toast Seems basically we can keep Lee if he wants to be here.

[Chinook]

Chinook you're the resident cap expert. If Lee opts out, will we still have his full bird rights (after only 1 year?). And, if so, can they do what they did with Manu. Have a verbal agreement and basically sign him to anything they want once all the cap space is used up. His cap hold right now should be pretty low, right? So holding onto him won't be too much an impediment for other signings. Or does opting out clear the cap hold?

Thanks.

It's as DPG said. The Spurs really don't have any rights on Lee. They'd have to sign him with an exception like the MLE. Best bet is that he's willing to come back for the room exception ala Manu in 2015.

[BillMc]

It's as DPG said. The Spurs really don't have any rights on Lee. They'd have to sign him with an exception like the MLE. Best bet is that he's willing to come back for the room exception ala Manu in 2015.

Did the new CBA increase the exception significantly? I might have been wrong in the previous post. Maybe they're unlikely to retain him...Still, Spurs seldom lose players they want to keep.

[Chinook]

Did the new CBA increase the exception significantly? I might have been wrong in the previous post. Maybe they're unlikely to retain him...Still, Spurs seldom lose players they want to keep.

The CBA sets into motion steps to increase it significantly. But those move slowly. This summer, I'm pretty sure it'll only be slightly larger than it was this past off-season.

[BillMc]

The CBA sets into motion steps to increase it significantly. But those move slowly. This summer, I'm pretty sure it'll only be slightly larger than it was this past off-season.
Thanks for the clarification.

[spursistan]

It is not a good reflection on your team when 1st year 34-year-old David Lee proves to be the second most consistent season performer after Kawhi all while playing above- expectations..

[bklynspursfan]

“I like to think I have a decent basketball I.Q. but the rest of it, I think, is just off of effort and trying to make plays,” said Lee. He downplays his efficiency but, in truth, he’s shooting at nearly a career-high 59.7 percent. Gasol was expected to provide continuity while filling the sizeable hole left by Duncan’s exit. When he was hurt in mid-January, it was up to Lee and Dedmon to help maintain the Spurs’ winning pace. In the past 15 games without Gasol, San Antonio has gone 11-4.


Lee offered a little more insight on what he brings, saying “I think it’s kind of knowing your place when you’re on the floor. When I’m in there with the second unit, I try to be a little more aggressive scoring the ball. When I’m in there with guys like LaMarcus [Aldridge] and Kawhi, it’s more about the positioning, trying to give them space as well as be a threat if my man decides to help onto them. That’s something that Coach Popovich is very strict in what he wants spacing-wise and it’s something that I just want to be really good at.”


http://fansided.com/2017/02/21/david-lee-spurs-warriors-home/

[BillMc]

http://fansided.com/2017/02/21/david-lee-spurs-warriors-home/

Thanks for the post. Good find. Lee's attitude is perfect. :toast

[CGD]

Hell of a signing

[PopTheGOAT]

Get my nigga his hardware TBH

[spursistan]

Just a terrific addition..He has played with the energy of 25 yo fighting for his place in the league and not an accomplished 34yo vet who's already won a ring and made so much money that he could care less..

[CGD]

Hell of a signing

[cutewizard]

David Lee >>>>>> West

[cd98]

Yep. He revitalized his career. Probably means we only have him for this year.

[spursistan]

Just a terrific addition..He has played with the energy of 25 yo fighting for his place in the league and not an accomplished 34yo vet who's already won a ring and made so much money that he could care less..Also, i have to add how great teammate he's been..you could see it on the sidelines..

[Fireball]

After the first half I thought "wow, Lee really suffered since Gasol came back" ... but then he played some ball in the second half!!

[Play Boban]

MVLee. :wow

[NameLess Scrub]

Yep. He revitalized his career. Probably means we only have him for this year.

Well so far I hope not. Dude is such a good finisher. Goes for the great dunk frequently.
Reverse Splitter.

[Seventyniner]

Lee has been fantastic, but so was West in the regular season last year. Hopefully Lee doesn't fall off a cliff and face a bad matchup too.

[Canyonero]

And he's dating Caroline Wozniacki. MVLee in every aspect tbh.

[TheGreatYacht]

And he's dating Caroline Wozniacki. MVLee in every aspect tbh.
You mean we're* dating Caroline Wozniacki - HOTS

[SpursFan86]

I thought Lee was a good pickup for the vet minimum, but I would've never expected him to play this well...he's been fantastic :tu

[Dex]

Lee has been fantastic, but so was West in the regular season last year. Hopefully Lee doesn't fall off a cliff and face a bad matchup too.

Eh, West's mid-range jumper was on during the regular season, but he still couldn't defend the P&R, picked up a lot of silly fouls, and got beat consistently on the boards.

Once the playoffs came though, his J went dry, and then he became absolutely and completely useless.

[Canyonero]

You mean we're* dating Caroline Wozniacki - HOTS

No woman can resist a guy with his own food truck.

[tholdren]

Eh, West's mid-range jumper was on during the regular season, but he still couldn't defend the P&R, picked up a lot of silly fouls, and got beat consistently on the boards.

Once the playoffs came though, his J went dry, and then he became absolutely and completely useless.

west is a fake tough guy who could only try to use intimidation to get rebounds or 5050 balls. lee actually hustles. lee 100 times better passer

[SpursIndonesia]

Lee is a much, much better player on the PnR compared to West, he is like a mini Splitter but with strong dunking finish instinct. And rebounding wise, while he might get overwhelmed by the better rebounders of the league, but against average NBA bigs especially off the bench, he is quite effective. And those smart positioning in defense masks his deficiency a lot within the Spurs defensive scheme.

[alpha_HaZE]

Lee is a brilliant offensive player near the basket both in scoring and grabbing rebounds which he turns into baskets at an extremely high rate. The guy can do it all, he can pass, or shoot, or take it to the basket, and he usually get's the ball near the basket, he has been a wonderful player for us.

[ceperez]

Lee is a brilliant offensive player near the basket both in scoring and grabbing rebounds which he turns into baskets at an extremely high rate. The guy can do it all, he can pass, or shoot, or take it to the basket, and he usually get's the ball near the basket, he has been a wonderful player for us.

Do it all? He can't shoot.

[alpha_HaZE]

Do it all? He can't shoot.

near the basket was the key word. Lee has a pretty reliable mid-range shot.

[Seventyniner]

near the basket was the key word. Lee has a pretty reliable mid-range shot.

Lee had a decent midrange shot in his early and middle career, then his shot abandoned him and he started hopping teams. This year he's been better at funky 6-10 foot hook shots that look terrible going up but go in anyway.

Edit: just checked the stats on bkref. Lee is shooting 44.6% on shots from 3-10 feet (39.8% career average) and 53.8% from 10-16 feet (42.7% career).

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Do it all? He can't shoot.

With everything else Lee brings to the table he'd be All NBA 3rd team caliber if he had a jumper. He's currently a $10M+/year caliber player being paid $2M/year.

[TimDunkem]

Lol His shot abandoned him? Nice myth. He just stopped shooting it. The Knicks asked him to shot that shot more often than other teams later in his career.

[alpha_HaZE]

Edit: just checked the stats on bkref. Lee is shooting 44.6% on shots from 3-10 feet (39.8% career average) and 53.8% from 10-16 feet (42.7% career).



Cheers to that, he is doing a wonderful job for us this year :)

[ace3g]

841427182501134340

[palangi]

It's good to see the WHITE American stick it to harlem and his racist thought process.

[DPG21920]

Do it all? He can't shoot.

That is what has escaped him as he has aged. He was never an ace, but he used to be servicable enough.

[SAGirl]

That is what has escaped him as he has aged. He was never an ace, but he used to be servicable enough.
I wonder if it was the legs. He was injury prone his last season in GSW then went to Boston and he looked like his career was over. He says he wasn't keeping in good shape in the summer and that he didn't come to cMp in shape in Boston. He then realized at this point of his career he has to stay in shape over the summer. He plays less minutes bNd off the bench. Its possible in the last few seasons the decline in his game/injury pron problems were related to starting level minutes, fatigue, aging, etc. Which things like coming of the bench, better care of himself and minutes management help with. He doesn't shoot a lot, even in his good %. He's very selective with his jumpshots lately which also helps with a good %

[DPG21920]

I wonder if it was the legs. He was injury prone his last season in GSW then went to Boston and he looked like his career was over. He says he wasn't keeping in good shape in the summer and that he didn't come to cMp in shape in Boston. He then realized at this point of his career he has to stay in shape over the summer. He plays less minutes bNd off the bench. Its possible in the last few seasons the decline in his game/injury pron problems were related to starting level minutes, fatigue, aging, etc. Which things like coming of the bench, better care of himself and minutes management help with. He doesn't shoot a lot, even in his good %. He's very selective with his jumpshots lately which also helps with a good %

I think this all definitely plays into it. As you age, you definitely have to work harder to stay in shape and healthy and if you don't I think you see things like shots suffer. But he's been great this year.

[Spur|n|Austin]

841427182501134340

:wow

[benfti]

What will he cost to keep?

[spursistan]

849252829994921984

[HarlemHeat37]

Looking like David West all over again, tbh:lol looked great in meaningless RS games, celebrated by fans, but getting exposed in the playoffs..

[Robz4000]

Eh, still like him a hundred times more than DWorst. Pop's been putting him in horrible situations and we all knew what he was about on _efense.

[HarlemHeat37]

Eh, still like him a hundred times more than DWorst. Pop's been putting him in horrible situations and we all knew what he was about on _efense.

That isn't any different than David West(Pop playing him in horrible situations, including the Diaw/West frontcourt), tbh, yet everybody still killed him in last year's playoffs..

[timtonymanu]

Wouldn't have to be in this position (same as West) if the so called most talented big on the team could show up

[Robz4000]

That isn't any different than David West(Pop playing him in horrible situations, including the Diaw/West frontcourt), tbh, yet everybody still killed him in last year's playoffs..

He actually had a role in helping the Spurs win Games 5 and 6 against Memphis though with his passing/rolling/hustle. All DWorst did was chuck up long twos and scowl and grit his teeth after giving up putback dunks.

[BackHome]

DUDE I WOULD TAKE LEE ANY DAY EVERY DAY OVER DWORST.