The misconception about David Lee's defense

[Kawhitstorm]

I've been scrutinizing his defensive metrics & they just do seem to indicate that he's a "horrible" defender.

The metric I like the best to compare TEAMMATES is DBPM:


BPM relies on a player's box score information and the team's overall performance to estimate a player's performance relative to league average. BPM is a per-100-possession stat, the same scale as Adjusted Plus/Minus: 0.0 is league average, +5 means the player is 5 points better than an average player over 100 possessions (which is about All-NBA level), -2 is replacement level, and -5 is really bad.

BPM does not take into account playing time – it is purely a rate stat.

Lee has been on a playoff team since 2012-13 & he hasn't had a negative DBPM for a single season.

'12-'13: +1.5 (Better than Barnes)
-Injured in the playoffs

'13-'14: +0.8 (Basically same as Barnes)
-Playoffs: +2.7 (Better than Barnes)

'14-'15: +2.0 (Not enough sample size)
-Playoffs: +0.5 (Not enough sample size)

'15-'16: +1.7 (Not enough sample size)
-Playoffs: +1.9 (Not enough sample size)

He was basically rated no worse than his fellow forward Barnes during his GSW tenure (Speight was dead last::lol)

If you want to use on/off metric then he was a positive when he played significant minutes b/w 2012-2014 on a playoff team including +11 & +12 in the '13-'14 regular/postseason respectively: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02/on-off/2014/

He was also a positive in his limited role during the 2015 postseason on a championship squad: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02/on-off/2015/#on-off-post::none

Something I noticed was that he's actually a better post defender than Diaw & moves his feet better than West but he just plain sucks at protecting the rim which is why it's a terrible idea to play him at center. I would compare him to a stronger but step-slower version of Diaw.

Look at him shutting down Softridge::lol

M5Dw0VM1qkg

Shutting down Bosh & abusing him on the other end:

OxQkvPqpSRE

He's actually ready to play when called upon unlike Diaw 1.0:

cIbD0Cm9pEs

Hopefully, Pop uses the big man rotation just like when Tiago/Tim were starting together & Diaw/Baynes were coming off the bench where he would have Tiago sub out early so he could anchor the second unit.

-Lee: Diaw
-Dedmon: Baynes

LMA has shown he's capable of defending on the perimeter better than Pau & Pau is a better rim protector so: Lee/Pau & Dedmon/LMA.

Kyle is the elephant in the room but it seems to me like he's best suited for a Boban role where he could dominate 3rd stringers.:toast

[ceperez]

Lee likely has enough foot speed to be better than DWest defending the perimeter. Give though his height, he probably is as good as Diaw defending the paint.

Spurs may have lucked out again and found a much cheaper player than Diaw that can pass in the post.

[Kawhitstorm]

Lee likely has enough foot speed to be better than DWest defending the perimeter. Give though his height, he probably is as good as Diaw defending the paint.

West had long ass arms which allowed him to get steals & deflection, he also had better defensive awareness.

[dabom]

West had long ass arms which allowed him to get steals & deflection, he also had better defensive awareness.

West also can't get rebounds and can't defend the pick and roll. I could say more but the dude was a dud. I'm sure Lee is already better defensively.

[tholdren]

I've been scrutinizing his defensive metrics & they just do seem to indicate that he's a "horrible" defender.

The metric I like the best to compare TEAMMATES is DBPM:

bpm....

Lee has been on a playoff team since 2012-13 & he hasn't had a negative DBPM for a single season.

'12-'13: +1.5 (Better than Barnes)
-Injured in the playoffs

'13-'14: +0.8 (Basically same as Barnes)
-Playoffs: +2.7 (Better than Barnes)

'14-'15: +2.0 (Not enough sample size)
-Playoffs: +0.5 (Not enough sample size)

'15-'16: +1.7 (Not enough sample size)
-Playoffs: +1.9 (Not enough sample size)

He was basically rated no worse than his fellow forward Barnes during his GSW tenure (Speight was dead last::lol)

If you want to use on/off metric then he was a positive when he played significant minutes b/w 2012-2014 on a playoff team including +11 & +12 in the '13-'14 regular/postseason respectively: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02/on-off/2014/

He was also a positive in his limited role during the 2015 postseason on a championship squad: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02/on-off/2015/#on-off-post::none

Something I noticed was that he's actually a better post defender than Diaw & moves his feet better than West but he just plain sucks at protecting the rim which is why it's a terrible idea to play him at center. I would compare him to a stronger but step-slower version of Diaw.

Look at him shutting down Softridge::lol

M5Dw0VM1qkg

Shutting down Bosh & abusing him on the other end:

OxQkvPqpSRE

He's actually ready to play when called upon unlike Diaw 1.0:

cIbD0Cm9pEs

Hopefully, Pop uses the big man rotation just like when Tiago/Tim were starting together & Diaw/Baynes were coming off the bench where he would have Tiago sub out early so he could anchor the second unit.

-Lee: Diaw
-Dedmon: Baynes

LMA has shown he's capable of defending on the perimeter better than Pau & Pau is a better rim protector so: Lee/Pau & Dedmon/LMA.

Kyle is the elephant in the room but it seems to me like he's best suited for a Boban role where he could dominate 3rd stringers.:toast

[ginobilized]

This is a very dynamic big man rotation. With some luck as far as health, it could be very effective. I think Lee brings high energy in a way that Dejuan Blair did, but, with some actual basketball skills like passing and shooting.
The 2nd unit already is looking intriguing on paper. Mills/Ginobili/Anderson/Lee/&Dedmon or Bertans could be fun to watch.

[SAGirl]

Hopefully he proves to be a good addition, but I am wary of him. His videos in GSW he was wide open with absolutely no one guarding him as caught the ball and drove relatively easily. The result of the gravity in GSW is not easily replicated. In Dallas he was playing next to Dirk Nowitzky and the floor was wide open for him. They were playing him as the undersized center in a 4 out style.

In Boston without other floor stretchers he didn't do so well and despite his stats shooting, he hasn't been a net positive the past couple of seasons. It could be his injuries, but it also could be other issues. So no, not that excited about him, but he is a Spur now so there is no point in getting up a case against him.

[Kawhitstorm]

Hopefully he proves to be a good addition, but I am wary of him. His videos in GSW he was wide open with absolutely no one guarding him as caught the ball and drove relatively easily. The result of the gravity in GSW is not easily replicated. In Dallas he was playing next to Dirk Nowitzky and the floor was wide open for him. They were playing him as the undersized center in a 4 out style.

In Boston without other floor stretchers he didn't do so well and despite his stats shooting, he hasn't been a net positive the past couple of seasons. It could be his injuries, but it also could be other issues. So no, not that excited about him, but he is a Spur now so there is no point in getting up a case against him.

Lee is a versatile big although he doesn't have range he can either postup or play PnR so he's a hybrid of Boris/Tiago. In New York he was more of a postup player but w/ the Duds he was running PnRs w/ Curry.

In Boston, they were trying to run PnRs with shitty shooters on the floor which was what caused the hiccup.:lol

[SAGirl]

Hopefully he has a good season and works out for the team. :tu
:flag:

Contrary to you though, I don't think Kyle will be restricted to third string, but he's likely to continue to play both forward spots. Hopefully his improved shooting helps out no matter where he's played.

[ElNono]

if it's for the minimum, why not?

[gospursgojas]

The Savior

[Kawhitstorm]

Contrary to you though, I don't think Kyle will be restricted to third string, but he's likely to continue to play both forward spots. Hopefully his improved shooting helps out no matter where he's played.

Fat Head can keep the opposition at bay & pad his stats while the rotation players rest. It's a win-win for both parties as we saw w/ Boban.:toast

[Kawhitstorm]

if it's for the minimum, why not?

If Speight can be a rotation player on a 73 win team then Lee should be serviceable.:wakeup

[SAGirl]

Fat Head can keep the opposition at bay & pad his stats while the rotation players rest. It's a win-win for both parties as we saw w/ Boban.:toast
Well if you want him benched I think you will be disappointed, unless you want him to pad stats for a possible trade but that won't raise his value unless he's a rotation player. I think you are trolling.

[jiggy_55]

Just thinking offensively, the guy did average 8.5ppg and 7.0rpg with Dallas in 25 games playing 17 minutes a night, while shooting 63.6%. He's going to be an excellent teammate, rebounder, and scorer in the paint for the bench team. He's a smooth finisher and will finish many pick and rolls with a smart inside score or making the right pass.

As many have said, defensively he can move his feet well and may be a great fit playing with Pau.

Also, 3 years younger than West. A welcome addition to the Spurs family as we are short on big men.

[DMC]

Funny how all these NBA players have misconceptions about their games until they join the Spurs. Then it becomes crystal clear it was all just a misconception.. move along.

[SAGirl]

This is the best article I have read to succinctly explain Lee:
http://www.poundingtherock.com/2016/8/3/12367962/spurs-maximize-david-lee
He takes maneuvering to work around his deficiencies but is workable with and around certain guys.

[alpha_HaZE]

Defense has always been about team effort and that's something that depends more about the particular team culture and not the individual player. Warriors were an elite great defensive team under Marc Jackson, Lee can't be that bad. He had an off year last season, wouldn't you? He lost his role with the team that just won a ring and was traded as a result of it. It took him forever to get in b-ball shape and eventually found some success the Dallas. I fully expect him to have a much better season with the Spurs.

[Raven]

he's about as bad as they come. Anyone thinking he will be anything short of awful, has to be laughed at.

[Kawhitstorm]

Funny how all these NBA players have misconceptions about their games until they join the Spurs. Then it becomes crystal clear it was all just a misconception.. move along.

You mean like how there was a misconception about LMA being an "awful" defender who couldn't hold Shitters' jock straps?:lol

[Tully365]

You mean like how there was a misconception about LMA being an "awful" defender who couldn't hold Shitters' jock straps?:lol

:toastExactly.

[SAGirl]

Defense is a team concept but the same system doesn't work the same with all the same guys. Change Danny for Marco and see how your system doesn't work the same.

[cd021]

You mean like how there was a misconception about LMA being an "awful" defender who couldn't hold Shitters' jock straps?:lol

I don't think it was a misconception but people had wildly different opinions of his D. El Hausen from ESPN called him an awful defender while Zach Lowe compared him to Splitter who he regarded as an excellent defender.

LMA's rim protection and post stats both suggested that he was a good defender and the D Rtg of the last Portland team he was on suggested that he could be have a big role on a very good defensive team. Swapping out Lopez for Duncan, and Mathews and Batum for Wingstop (all three of which are significantly better than his old teammates made LMA a much more effective defender for the Spurs. He is a good defender but it was overlooked because of his offensive game. I don't think that he could necessarily anchor a defense but with a solid C beside him he can be well above average on that end.

[Kawhitstorm]

LMA's rim protection and post stats both suggested that he was a good defender and the D Rtg of the last Portland team he was on suggested that he could be have a big role on a very good defensive team. Swapping out Lopez for Duncan, and Mathews and Batum for Wingstop (all three of which are significantly better than his old teammates made LMA a much more effective defender for the Spurs. He is a good defender but it was overlooked because of his offensive game. I don't think that he could necessarily anchor a defense but with a solid C beside him he can be well above average on that end.

Love was the one that got the championship clinching defensive stop on Curry & folks are claiming Lee is unplayable against backups.:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

Defense is a team concept but the same system doesn't work the same with all the same guys. Change Danny for Marco and see how your system doesn't work the same.
Marco was rated as an "awful" defender by every metric despite being a career backup who played for Thibs/Pop.:wakeup

[tonight...you]

Marco was rated as an "awful" defender by every metric despite being a career backup who played for Thibs/Pop.:wakeup
Okay... so what are you saying towards her point? That Marco did well in their defensive systems? Clarify please.

[SAGirl]

Marco was rated as an "awful" defender by every metric despite being a career backup who played for Thibs/Pop.:wakeup
The point still stand that defensive systems are only as good as the players in them and sometimes that includes hiding players like Tony does with someone to compensate for him. Lee was hidden with Bogut and Iggy covering rim and perimeter.

[SAGirl]

Okay... so what are you saying towards her point? That Marco did well in their defensive systems? Clarify please.
Yeah don't know what he's barking up there.

[Kawhitstorm]

Okay... so what are you saying towards her point? That Marco did well in their defensive systems? Clarify please.

Dummy, Marco COULDN'T even be hidden by Pop/Thibs against backups while Lee was a starter on a top 5 defense.:sleep

[tonight...you]

Dummy, Marco COULDN'T even be hidden by Pop/Thibs against backups while Lee was a starter on a top 5 defense.:sleep

Didn't even remotely answer the question.

[cd021]

Okay... so what are you saying towards her point? That Marco did well in their defensive systems? Clarify please.

Definetly would say no but his offense for the Spurs far outweighed his drag on the defense. People attribute him as replacing Neal but he really replaced Captain and looked like a 4K TV compared to Captain by that point.

[tonight...you]

Definetly would say no but his offense for the Spurs far outweighed his drag on the defense. People attribute him as replacing Neal but he really replaced Captain and looked like a 4K TV compared to Captain by that point.
Okay. I can get behind that. Good call bud. Yeah... That makes sense.

[FkLA]

Oh god. When this faggot does this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMCbMmg1hz8

Or this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsiKQh53LSU

Then you can compare him to the great Boris Diaw.

[GSH]

if it's for the minimum, why not?

That's the single best argument in favor of Lee. That, plus the fact that he does at least have NBA experience, and some playoff experience. That's a huge factor for Pop. The trade-off is the possibility of getting a young, hungry guy with some upside, who might over-achieve and be around for several years.




I don't think it was a misconception but people had wildly different opinions of his D. El Hausen from ESPN called him an awful defender while Zach Lowe compared him to Splitter who he regarded as an excellent defender.

I didn't read the article where Lowe compared Lee's defense to Tiago Splitter's, but I believe it. Lowe is the darling of the media circle-jerk, because he's ambidextrous. So he doesn't get beaten up for saying stupid shit like that. He writes a lot of long-winded, detail-laden shit that looks great except for the fact that it's often meaningless - and wrong more often than right. Like when he wrote that dumbshit, brain-bleed article about where LeBron might go, "if" he decided to leave Miami - and none of the teams he considered was Cleveland. (Anyone with a brain knew that Cleveland was probably a 90% lock.) And I especially enjoy his scathing articles on the uniforms around the league. Good times.

The only similarity between David Lee's defense and Tiago's is that they both take place on the same end of the floor. Highlight reel videos don't tell you much about how a guy plays day in and day out. Lee has never been a good defender, and I think that's pretty well understood around the league. He'll do find against second-team opponents - except the teams that have good backup bigs who are legitimately big. As usual, a bunch of people will fall in love with him and crow about the good plays he has (and he will have some), and ignore the fact that he's a fucking matador on defense.

Here's an article that got a lot of attention, and when the author presented his paper at Sloan. David Lee argued that it wasn't true. Some of the Warrior homers said it wasn't true, but most serious analysts agree that Lee is a shit defender. The analysts at Sloan that year just laughed their asses off about how bad Lee's defense is. I guess we'll see this season, and I'll admit it if he plays good defense. But don't hold your breath.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/courtvision-david-lees-interior-defense-a-k-a-the-golden-gate/

[GSH]

if it's for the minimum, why not?


while Lee was a starter on a top 5 defense.:sleep


He was a starter on a very good team that got its ass kicked out in the first round of the playoffs. And Lee's defense was one of the biggest things that got blamed for it. The next season he got kicked to the bench (okay, he started 4 games vs 67 the year before.) And THAT was the year that GS became a good defensive team and won a Championship. It's pretty well understood that they couldn't have become such a good defensive team with him starting. He may be good enough to help the Spurs off the bench, but trying to make a case that he's a good defender is just senseless.

The next year, GS dumped him for two players they didn't really need or want. Boston waived him. Dallas didn't even try to bring him back on a min contract. Nobody... nobody along the way considered keeping him for his defense. Only Zach Lowe and people who never really watched him play could think he's going to be a defensive asset.

[SpursFan86]

The metric I like the best to compare TEAMMATES is DBPM

Fathead and D-Worst the 2nd and 3rd best defenders on the team :wow

[spurraider21]

:lol what a disgusting homer thread

if the spurs traded for shaq... this is the thread


The misconception about Shaq's free throws


I've been scrutinizing his free throw metrics for years & they do seem to indicate that he's a "horrible" free throw shooter, but he's actually underrated.


Shitting on the nets


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT9-DckWq8Q



In the clutch


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6qZHwWo82I

[Kawhitstorm]

Fathead and D-Worst the 2nd and 3rd best defenders on the team :wow

Fat Head didn't play enough minutes to qualify & D-Worst was a solid defender against every BACKUP big not named Kanter.:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

Then you can compare him to the great Boris Diaw.

Ever heard of Boris 1.0, look him up.:sleep

[Kawhitstorm]

He was a starter on a very good team that got its ass kicked out in the first round of the playoffs. And Lee's defense was one of the biggest things that got blamed for it.

You do realize BOTH Bogut/Ezeli were out for the ENTIRE postseason in 2014 & Blake was murking everyone in that series including Draymond.:lol

TzYX5mVxXRY

Lee didn't get murked any worse than Boris did in 2015 & Blake was actually an MVP candidate in 2014.

[Kawhitstorm]

:lol what a disgusting homer thread

if the spurs traded for shaq... this is the thread

Shaq has made more clutch FTs than Evita/Enrique.:lol

[Spurtacular]

I'm not buying past prime D Lee as some defensive force. But it's not hard to see him being an upgrade on D West.

[Spurtacular]

Shaq has made more clutch FTs than Evita/Enrique.:lol

Are we counting the ones that he was allowed to shoot from 13 feet?

[SAGirl]

Fat Head didn't play enough minutes to qualify & D-Worst was a solid defender against every BACKUP big not named Kanter.:lol
Kyle played almost as many minutes total for the RS as any other bench player except Mills. His value was mostly defensively since he wasn't scoring for a good portion of the 3 first months of the season... you are just trolling at this point.
You know what? I don't even know why you are coming this hard on David Lee. The dude was not even on your radar of interest until he was picked up by the Spurs.

[wut]

I like Lee as a replacement for West...but yeh pales in comparison to the versatility of Diaw. West was hard to have on the floor because he made bad decisions on both ends of the court.

I think Lee will be more of a crowd favorite and due to his tenacity. Lee will be more like Malik Rose.

[John B]

Lee is a high motor and gives you extra possesions with his nose on the ball. He is as good at PNR like Tiago, better than West. I think he's an easy 8/9 a game and more. And about 3 or 4 off rebs. The best thing is he is hungry, he will prove he still has it. I like this guy a lot. I will miss Diaw and his playmaking which creates mismatches, but Anderson is starting to bring the same skills minus the weight. I'm excited.

[cd021]

That's the single best argument in favor of Lee. That, plus the fact that he does at least have NBA experience, and some playoff experience. That's a huge factor for Pop. The trade-off is the possibility of getting a young, hungry guy with some upside, who might over-achieve and be around for several years.





I didn't read the article where Lowe compared Lee's defense to Tiago Splitter's, but I believe it. Lowe is the darling of the media circle-jerk, because he's ambidextrous. So he doesn't get beaten up for saying stupid shit like that. He writes a lot of long-winded, detail-laden shit that looks great except for the fact that it's often meaningless - and wrong more often than right. Like when he wrote that dumbshit, brain-bleed article about where LeBron might go, "if" he decided to leave Miami - and none of the teams he considered was Cleveland. (Anyone with a brain knew that Cleveland was probably a 90% lock.) And I especially enjoy his scathing articles on the uniforms around the league. Good times.

The only similarity between David Lee's defense and Tiago's is that they both take place on the same end of the floor. Highlight reel videos don't tell you much about how a guy plays day in and day out. Lee has never been a good defender, and I think that's pretty well understood around the league. He'll do find against second-team opponents - except the teams that have good backup bigs who are legitimately big. As usual, a bunch of people will fall in love with him and crow about the good plays he has (and he will have some), and ignore the fact that he's a fucking matador on defense.

Here's an article that got a lot of attention, and when the author presented his paper at Sloan. David Lee argued that it wasn't true. Some of the Warrior homers said it wasn't true, but most serious analysts agree that Lee is a shit defender. The analysts at Sloan that year just laughed their asses off about how bad Lee's defense is. I guess we'll see this season, and I'll admit it if he plays good defense. But don't hold your breath.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/courtvision-david-lees-interior-defense-a-k-a-the-golden-gate/

:lol I meant LMA to Tiago not David Lee.

Lowe is great btw

[cd021]

I like Lee as a replacement for West...but yeh pales in comparison to the versatility of Diaw. West was hard to have on the floor because he made bad decisions on both ends of the court.

I think Lee will be more of a crowd favorite and due to his tenacity. Lee will be more like Malik Rose.

West could make bone headed fouls, then complain about them but he was excellent on offense. Looking back at highlights on the season, he was excellent at finding the open man and set good screens, some of his passes were Diaw level in terms of bigs finding the open man.

Diaw's time was up and while I loved Diaw, he really wasn't unreplaceable anymore. He struggled to stay in shape and his game began to suffer and he was a stretch 4 who really didn't actually stretch the floor (he was a below average mid range shooter his last four years in S.A and a low volume 3pt threat).

I'm fine with Lee but would have liked to see what KA could do as an actual stretch four, maybe the Spurs are trying to give him another year to fill out.

[DPG21920]

People expecting Lee to be good on defense or even better than West was last year in the regular season will be disappointed.

[cd021]

I'm not buying past prime D Lee as some defensive force. But it's not hard to see him being an upgrade on D West.

:lol people really underrating how good West was last year. There are at least three metrics (P.E.R, Win Shares per 48 and Net Rtg) that say that he was the third best rotation player on the Spurs last year.

A vet min. playing 1400 minutes and having a Net Rtg of +16 is silly good. If Lee is anywhere near as good then its a no-brainer.

[SpursFan86]

:lol people really underrating how good West was last year. There are at least three metrics (P.E.R, Win Shares per 48 and Net Rtg) that say that he was the third best rotation player on the Spurs last year.

It's legitimately amusing at this point. Looking at the rotation guys (Kawhi/LMA/Green/Parker/Duncan/Mills/West/Diaw/Anderson/Ginobili), here's where West ranked last year:

PER: 4th
WS/48: 3rd
BPM: 4th
VORP: 5th
RPM: 5th

Keep in mind, he was on a vet minimum contract and playing less than 20 mpg. It's not like he was getting paid 8 figures and running the team into the ground playing 30+ minutes a night. West was our 4th big. How much better do people expect out of a 4th big playing for the minimum? Look at the 4th bigs on teams around the league and try telling me West isn't far better than the vast majority of them.

The hate for West on here is seriously one of the most perplexing things I've seen in my 3+ years of visiting this forum. Yeah, he was awful in the OKC series. But 1) so was pretty much the entire team, 2) blame Popovich for insisting on playing West/Diaw against Kanter/Adams, and 3) having a bad series against a bad matchup doesn't mean he wasn't a solid player all season long.

I mean seriously, it seems like West is the 2nd most hated on player of last year's Spurs team outside of Parker :lol I would've loved to have West back for the vet minimum again this year. West/Dedmon is a 10x better pairing than West/Diaw. Dedmon would allow West to actually play PF and not be thrown into an undersized center role.

[sexinthatsx]

DWest was primarily a scorer than a rebounder and a hustle guy. David Lee seems more like a hustle guy to me, and has a history of being a way better rebounder than David West.

Additionally, David Lee knows he needs to work hard to compete and stay in the NBA since nobody even sniffed him during free agency. David West on the other hand still thinks he's worth his weight in gold because he decided to take a pay cut and doing the team a favor by signing for the minimum. Some people take signing for less money as humility, but the fact remains that it doesn't matter how much money you sign for, it's the personality and David West didn't get over himself, even after the pay cut.

[dabom]

People expecting Lee to be good on defense or even better than West was last year in the regular season will be disappointed.

I don't think anyone cares about the RS tbfh. :lol

[Kawhitstorm]

I mean seriously, it seems like West is the 2nd most hated on player of last year's Spurs team outside of Parker :lol I would've loved to have West back for the vet minimum again this year. West/Dedmon is a 10x better pairing than West/Diaw. Dedmon would allow West to actually play PF and not be thrown into an undersized center role.

West was an overkill like Boban, he was a net negative against the two western conference contenders (Duds/OKC) but feasted on backups during the regular season which helped him pad his advanced metric. He was redundant w/ Diaw/LMA so when there was a bad matchup for either one, playing him was adding gasoline to fire.

Lee at least can roll to the rim which adds a new dimension to the offense & will provide Manu a dance partner.


West/Dedmon is a 10x better pairing than West/Diaw. Dedmon would allow West to actually play PF and not be thrown into an undersized center role.

Scola outplayed him during his last season w/ the Pacers even when he was playing w/ Hibbert.:lol He was horrible playing PF when he started against the Duds which was why he basically got a DNP for the 2nd matchup.:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

I don't think anyone cares about the RS tbfh. :lol

IKR, Bonner was pretty solid during the '08-'09 regular season.:lol

[dabom]

IKR, Bonner was pretty solid during the '08-'09 regular season.:lol

Fucking plebs always talking about the RS. I remember the Spurs were called Paper Warriors before winning it in 2014 because no one gives a fuck about the RS tbfh. :lol

[SAGirl]

West ended up being the second best big after all and that was not an ideal situation for the team. Tim's knee gave out and his inefficiency on open layups right at the basket got him benched in the playoffs, and Diaw wasn't stretching any floor as others pointed out above.

He's indeed much maligned (and I am not a fan TBH), but at this point, he's gone. It's good riddance. He's now a nemesis, so I don't feel sympathy for the man.

I am however not eating the cheetos on Lee, just bc he was picked up by the Spurs. The team will be much better off if Dedmon pans out, let's just put it that way. But Lee is nice to have just in case. Just in case Dedmon doesn't, just in case there are injuries, just in case Bertans in his rookie season is struggling as a bench 4, just in case Pop wants Anderson playing in the perimeter, because Simmons turns out to be unplayable. Bottom line Lee is a contingency plan to me and that is fine.

It's fine to have him as he's a veteran and good insurance in case someone else doesn't pull through, but let's not act like his fit with Dedmon is seamless or like he's some all world defender because he's not. There is a reason he's been picked up for the veteran minimum, same as K.Martin, same as even D.West was. He's on the downturn of his career. He's been injured, he's been a net negative for his teams, etc. If the Spurs are relying on this dude for a lot, it will not end up better than it ended up with DWest, who was a better player last season.

[Kawhitstorm]

He's been injured, he's been a net negative for his teams, etc. If the Spurs are relying on this dude for a lot, it will not end up better than it ended up with DWest, who was a better player last season.

Not sure where you got the "net negative" thing b/c he was a NET positive by a SIGNIFICANT margin in '13-'14 when he played significant minutes BOTH in the regular/postseason on a quality playoff team: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02/on-off/2014/

The past two seasons, he was injured or playing on mediocre teams that don't fit his game otherwise he had a positive on/off numbers in limited minutes during the 2015 postseason on a championship squad:

Last season, D-Worst basically had NEUTRAL on/off numbers during the regular season & was a negative in the postseason: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westda01/on-off/2016/

When he was a starter on '14-'15, D-Worst had NEGATIVE on/off numbers on a lotto team: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westda01/on-off/2015/

Lee CHOSE to sign for the minimum, he could have gotten the MLE on a team like the Raptors.

[SAGirl]

Not sure where you got the "net negative" thing b/c he was a NET positive by a SIGNIFICANT margin in '13-'14 when he played significant minutes BOTH in the regular/postseason on a quality playoff team: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02/on-off/2014/

The past two seasons, he was injured or playing on mediocre teams that don't fit his game otherwise he had a positive on/off numbers in limited minutes during the 2015 postseason on a championship squad:

Last season, D-Worst basically had NEUTRAL on/off numbers during the regular season & was a negative in the postseason: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westda01/on-off/2016/

When he was a starter on '14-'15, D-Worst had NEGATIVE on/off numbers on a lotto team: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westda01/on-off/2015/

Lee CHOSE to sign for the minimum, he could have gotten the MLE on a team like the Raptors.

Several advanced stats posed him as a negative last season. I don't care for 2 or 3 seasons ago bc two seasons ago is too long in a basketball career. 2 seasons ago B.Diaw was helping the Spurs win a championship and France earn the eurocup, Kyle was a 20 yr old coming in to the draft, 3 seasons ago he was in college, Bertans injured, Kawhi not yet what he is, Tony was still an all NBA player, a previous MVP candidate, and yea, Lee was in a warriors team that got him open and had a lot of guys to cover for him as well as him possibly still in the tail end of his prime as a player. 2-3 years ago is a long time in basketball years. He also didn't make it out of the second round as a main guy. bla bla, you are trolling at this point Kstorm and don't know why you are doubling down on this dude honestly.

[Kawhitstorm]

Lee was in a warriors team that got him open and had a lot of guys to cover for him .

Lee had a POSITIVE on/off WITHOUT Bogut/Ezeli covering for his ass during the 2014 postseason against the Clips.

For comparison, Diaw was a -8.5 when Tiago was injured & he had to guard Blake: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/diawbo01/on-off/2015/

In the 2015 Finals, Lee had a comparable impact as CoJo did in the 2014 WCF when he turned around the series in limited minutes.

Lee is also not washed up since he doesn't have a ton of mileage for a 33 year old & is pretty spry although he has always had stiff hips.

Folks were saying Pau was washed up when he struggled with injuries at the same point of his career as Lee.

[SAGirl]

Lee had a POSITIVE on/off WITHOUT Bogut/Lee covering for his ass during the 2014 postseason against the Clips.

For comparison, Diaw was a -8.5 when Tiago was injured & he had to guard Blake: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/diawbo01/on-off/2015/

In the 2015 Finals, Lee had a comparable impact as CoJo did in the 2014 WCF when he turned around the series in limited minutes.

Lee is also not washed up since he doesn't have a ton of mileage for a 33 year old & is pretty spry although he has always had stiff hips.

Folks were saying Pau was washed up when he struggled with injuries at the same point of his career as Lee.

He has been on good teams at all times the past few years... it's not like he was in Pau's situation in a lottery team in a disgruntled situation.

At this point will just leave it at that, you have clearly bought in and I have not, nor will I. But bc he's in the team it's a waste of my time. I don't care to be right about this bc it's not best for the team anyways. I don't expect much of him but support and rest for the other guys in the frontcourt and the occasional bailout of younger forwards than him. If he gives more than that and helps the team win I have no complaints.

[Kawhitstorm]

At this point will just leave it at that, you have clearly bought in and I have not, nor will I. But bc he's in the team it's a waste of my time. I don't care to be right about this bc it's not best for the team anyways. I don't expect much of him but support and rest for the other guys in the frontcourt and the occasional bailout of younger forwards than him. If he gives more than that and helps the team win I have no complaints.

You're acting like I claimed he's going to be the savior when my MAIN point was that he wasn't an "awful" defender outside of rim protection but BOTH D-Worst/Diaw 1.0 sucked at it so they won't be missed.:lol

This past season, Lee was as better '14-'15 Baynes despite playing out of position on two mediocre teams: http://bkref.com/tiny/m7knG

In 2014-15, he wasn't any worse than Boris despite not being close to 100%: http://bkref.com/tiny/VNvoE

[alpha_HaZE]

That's the single best argument in favor of Lee. That, plus the fact that he does at least have NBA experience, and some playoff experience. That's a huge factor for Pop. The trade-off is the possibility of getting a young, hungry guy with some upside, who might over-achieve and be around for several years.





I didn't read the article where Lowe compared Lee's defense to Tiago Splitter's, but I believe it. Lowe is the darling of the media circle-jerk, because he's ambidextrous. So he doesn't get beaten up for saying stupid shit like that. He writes a lot of long-winded, detail-laden shit that looks great except for the fact that it's often meaningless - and wrong more often than right. Like when he wrote that dumbshit, brain-bleed article about where LeBron might go, "if" he decided to leave Miami - and none of the teams he considered was Cleveland. (Anyone with a brain knew that Cleveland was probably a 90% lock.) And I especially enjoy his scathing articles on the uniforms around the league. Good times.

The only similarity between David Lee's defense and Tiago's is that they both take place on the same end of the floor. Highlight reel videos don't tell you much about how a guy plays day in and day out. Lee has never been a good defender, and I think that's pretty well understood around the league. He'll do find against second-team opponents - except the teams that have good backup bigs who are legitimately big. As usual, a bunch of people will fall in love with him and crow about the good plays he has (and he will have some), and ignore the fact that he's a fucking matador on defense.

Here's an article that got a lot of attention, and when the author presented his paper at Sloan. David Lee argued that it wasn't true. Some of the Warrior homers said it wasn't true, but most serious analysts agree that Lee is a shit defender. The analysts at Sloan that year just laughed their asses off about how bad Lee's defense is. I guess we'll see this season, and I'll admit it if he plays good defense. But don't hold your breath.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/courtvision-david-lees-interior-defense-a-k-a-the-golden-gate/

Excellent assessment on Lowe, I just hope Lee proves you wrong.

[SAGirl]

You're acting like I claimed he's going to be the savior when my MAIN point was that he wasn't an "awful" defender outside of rim protection but BOTH D-Worst/Diaw 1.0 sucked at it so they won't be missed.:lol

This past season, Lee was as better '14-'15 Baynes despite playing out of position on two mediocre teams: http://bkref.com/tiny/m7knG

In 2014-15, he wasn't any worse than Boris despite not being close to 100%: http://bkref.com/tiny/VNvoE

Rim protection is not the issue if the team has Dedmon in the bench. It is whether Lee and Dedmon can fit together, or get in each other's way and whether Lee will have to be paired on his own with say Bertans in a new turd towers lineup of Lee/Bertans for example. The issue is whether Pop needs to play Lee with LMA or Pau, who are also not defensive minded bigs and are used to being paired with a defensive big to help out.

There are issues of fit, same as Dwest had his, but at this point we are going in circles. If he does prove better than West we should all be grateful. I also don't see him as the 3rd big at all (which Dwest ended up being and in the playoffs was the 2nd some games), but I could be wrong. The less I expect of him the better it will be if he surprises me, but like I said it doesn't matter at this point. He's a Spur.

[rudwick]

The misconception about his defense is that it exists.

[Manufan909]

The misconception about his defense is that it exists.

/thread

[cd021]

Rim protection is not the issue if the team has Dedmon in the bench. It is whether Lee and Dedmon can fit together, or get in each other's way and whether Lee will have to be paired on his own with say Bertans in a new turd towers lineup of Lee/Bertans for example. The issue is whether Pop needs to play Lee with LMA or Pau, who are also not defensive minded bigs and are used to being paired with a defensive big to help out.

There are issues of fit, same as Dwest had his, but at this point we are going in circles. If he does prove better than West we should all be grateful. I also don't see him as the 3rd big at all (which Dwest ended up being and in the playoffs was the 2nd some games), but I could be wrong. The less I expect of him the better it will be if he surprises me, but like I said it doesn't matter at this point. He's a Spur.

I really don't get why people keep bringing up Bertans as a 4, he is 6'10 that doesn't automatically make him one. He looks much more like a 3 and Anderson is much more of a four.

Aldridge is a good defender but point taken on him not being "defensive minded" he shouldn't have to co star on offense and anchor the defense. I think that Dedmon is the better fit beside him and Gasol off the bench with Lee. The bench unit doesn't need to clamp down on other teams so much as they just need to outscore them which is something the bench has been great at the past few seasons.

Lee can't really shoot outside of the paint and pairing him with Gasol gives the Spurs a floor spacing big (Gasol's midrange numbers over the past two seasons has been outrageously good). Paring Lee and Gasol with Mills, Manu, and Anderson gives the Spurs two perimeter threats, a roll threat, a post threat/ pick and pop threat and Anderson as kind of blend of all three (seldom takes 3's but is an excellent mid range shooter, and can post).

I think that come playoff time, against GSW (assuming we make it that far) Anderson would play both backup forward spots with Lee being the odd man out. I think that Mills could be out of the rotation for that series as well, depending on how Simmons and or Bertans play. The Spurs could wind up having a bench unit that has; Manu-Simmons/ Bertans- Green/ Leonard- Anderson-Gasol

[SAGirl]

I really don't get why people keep bringing up Bertans as a 4, he is 6'10 that doesn't automatically make him one. He looks much more like a 3 and Anderson is much more of a four.

Aldridge is a good defender but point taken on him not being "defensive minded" he shouldn't have to co star on offense and anchor the defense. I think that Dedmon is the better fit beside him and Gasol off the bench with Lee. The bench unit doesn't need to clamp down on other teams so much as they just need to outscore them which is something the bench has been great at the past few seasons.

Lee can't really shoot outside of the paint and pairing him with Gasol gives the Spurs a floor spacing big (Gasol's midrange numbers over the past two seasons has been outrageously good). Paring Lee and Gasol with Mills, Manu, and Anderson gives the Spurs two perimeter threats, a roll threat, a post threat/ pick and pop threat and Anderson as kind of blend of all three (seldom takes 3's but is an excellent mid range shooter, and can post).

I think that come playoff time, against GSW (assuming we make it that far) Anderson would play both backup forward spots with Lee being the odd man out. I think that Mills could be out of the rotation for that series as well, depending on how Simmons and or Bertans play. The Spurs could wind up having a bench unit that has; Manu-Simmons/ Bertans- Green/ Leonard- Anderson-Gasol
Ppl bring up Bertans as a 4 (or at least I do) bc he's specifically said that is what Spurs told him he would play and its all he played in SL. It seems for now Pop intends to play him there. Whether that changes is another matter. He has taken Bonner's role in the Spurs. I know he's a more versatile shooter than Bonner but for now that is all he said.

I agree with you on Lee. I am sure Pop will experiment a lot with bench lineups but he also must have in mind more or less what they want to do. I think Lee was signed for depth in case younger guys don't pull through personally, but if they do, he might be the odd man out like Butler. That's how I see it. I might be wrong of course but he doesn't make sense in the middle of a youth movement unless he's in that role.

[dabom]

I really don't get why people keep bringing up Bertans as a 4, he is 6'10 that doesn't automatically make him one. He looks much more like a 3 and Anderson is much more of a four.

Aldridge is a good defender but point taken on him not being "defensive minded" he shouldn't have to co star on offense and anchor the defense. I think that Dedmon is the better fit beside him and Gasol off the bench with Lee. The bench unit doesn't need to clamp down on other teams so much as they just need to outscore them which is something the bench has been great at the past few seasons.

Lee can't really shoot outside of the paint and pairing him with Gasol gives the Spurs a floor spacing big (Gasol's midrange numbers over the past two seasons has been outrageously good). Paring Lee and Gasol with Mills, Manu, and Anderson gives the Spurs two perimeter threats, a roll threat, a post threat/ pick and pop threat and Anderson as kind of blend of all three (seldom takes 3's but is an excellent mid range shooter, and can post).

I think that come playoff time, against GSW (assuming we make it that far) Anderson would play both backup forward spots with Lee being the odd man out. I think that Mills could be out of the rotation for that series as well, depending on how Simmons and or Bertans play. The Spurs could wind up having a bench unit that has; Manu-Simmons/ Bertans- Green/ Leonard- Anderson-Gasol

You lost all credibility when you said Patty fucking Mills would be out of rotation. I don't think you understand basketball.

[Kawhitstorm]

Aldridge is a good defender but point taken on him not being "defensive minded" he shouldn't have to co star on offense and anchor the defense. I think that Dedmon is the better fit beside him and Gasol off the bench with Lee. The bench unit doesn't need to clamp down on other teams so much as they just need to outscore them which is something the bench has been great at the past few seasons.

Pau shouldn't play the 4 by all means necessary & LMA sucks as a rim protector thus the best tandem is starting Pau/LMA then rotating Dedmon/LMA then Pau/Lee.

[Kawhitstorm]

Out of the 1648 players with a sufficient sample size that played in the NBA from 1991 to 2014, David Lee ranks 1382nd in defensive RAPM:lol.

Can you list me his defensive RAPM when he ACTUALLY played w/ a rim protector on a playoff team?:wakeup

Let's not act like K-Love wasn't the one that got the title clinching stop on none other than the so called best offensive player in the league.

[Brian Windhorst]

My guess is PATFO expect KA to be ready at the backup 4 spot from day 1 and just signed Lee for short stints and insurance. Much like D West, he'll be fine playing 24 minutes on nights when guys rest during the regular season.

I think going from Mills, Ginobili, Anderson, Diaw, West to Mills, Ginobili, Simmons, Anderson, Dedmon will actually be a more significant upgrade on both ends than people expect. Then you have Bertans, Lee, Murray, and LJC waiting in the wings as opposed to Miller, Bonner, Martin, & Boban.

The only real problem is that this roster is currently razor thin at "true" center and PG while being really bloated at the forward spots. If Pau and Tony suddenly miss a few weeks together, we'll be relying on Murray and Dewayne Dedmon to give us 20+ MPG.

[GSH]

I've been scrutinizing his defensive metrics & they just do seem to indicate that he's a "horrible" defender.

The metric I like the best to compare TEAMMATES is DBPM:



The biggest misconception about Lee's defense EVER is your stupid fucking post. That's what happens when an ignorant fucking person gets his hands on an ignorant fucking stat.

How about this? Enes Kanter HAS had a negative DBPM... every single season of his career. He absolutely kicked the shit out of the Spurs defensively. David Lee has never kicked the shit out of anyone defensively. That alone would make a normal person think maybe there is something wrong with the stat.

But wait! You're about to say that you claim to like the stat to "compare TEAMMATES", and that I just don't get it. So Kanter's -3.1 DBPM last season (the worst of his career) makes him the worst defender on that Thunder team, other than Anthony Morrow (-3.2). Way, way worse than Dion Waiters, who had a -1.5 DBPM. I'm convinced. DBPM must be a great way to compare teammates' defensively.

David Lee is a fucking defensive liability. Always has been. People who actually watch him play agree on that overwhelmingly.

[dabom]

The biggest misconception about Lee's defense EVER is your stupid fucking post. That's what happens when an ignorant fucking person gets his hands on an ignorant fucking stat.

How about this? Enes Kanter HAS had a negative DBPM... every single season of his career. He absolutely kicked the shit out of the Spurs defensively. David Lee has never kicked the shit out of anyone defensively. That alone would make a normal person think maybe there is something wrong with the stat.

But wait! You're about to say that you claim to like the stat to "compare TEAMMATES", and that I just don't get it. So Kanter's -3.1 DBPM last season (the worst of his career) makes him the worst defender on that Thunder team, other than Anthony Morrow (-3.2). Way, way worse than Dion Waiters, who had a -1.5 DBPM. I'm convinced. DBPM must be a great way to compare teammates' defensively.

David Lee is a fucking defensive liability. Always has been. People who actually watch him play agree on that overwhelmingly.

Not much but Kanter was Playing against a Dwest and sometimes Diaw lineup. :lmao

[TD 21]

Pau shouldn't play the 4 by all means necessary & LMA sucks as a rim protector thus the best tandem is starting Pau/LMA then rotating Dedmon/LMA then Pau/Lee.

That's only somewhat practical in the 1st half or in blowouts though.



The only real problem is that this roster is currently razor thin at "true" center and PG while being really bloated at the forward spots. If Pau and Tony suddenly miss a few weeks together, we'll be relying on Murray and Dewayne Dedmon to give us 20+ MPG.

Aldridge (defensively) and Lee (offensively) can essentially play center in tandem.

The same goes for Ginobili (offensively) and Simmons (defensively), at point guard.

[Kawhitstorm]

But wait! You're about to say that you claim to like the stat to "compare TEAMMATES", and that I just don't get it. So Kanter's -3.1 DBPM last season (the worst of his career) makes him the worst defender on that Thunder team, other than Anthony Morrow (-3.2). Way, way worse than Dion Waiters, who had a -1.5 DBPM. I'm convinced. DBPM must be a great way to compare teammates' defensively.

WTF is your point besides making an ass out of yourself?:downspin:

Your dumb ass just proved me RIGHT. Kanter is a shitty defender & is rated APPROPRIATELY as the worst defender on OKC by DBPM.:sleep

[Kawhitstorm]

That's only somewhat practical in the 1st half or in blowouts though.

Pau/LMA are most likely going to be closing games so Dedmon/Lee would be getting a good chunk of their minutes in the first 3 quarters of the game which is fine as long as Pop doesn't roll out the LMA/Lee frontline.:lol

[cd021]

You lost all credibility when you said Patty fucking Mills would be out of rotation. I don't think you understand basketball.

Reading comprehension:rolleyes, I said against GSW. He really only has two players that he can conceivably guard, one is Curry and the other is 6'7 PG who posts up opposing guards. Cutting Lee and Mills out of the rotation might be something the Spurs have to do.

[dabom]

As much as you think we can go with this big lineup, it rarely works. You never see Pop do this because it messes up all assignments for both pg and sg. It rarely happens and you expect a whole series? Come on guy. You can do better.

[Kawhitstorm]

Reading comprehension:rolleyes, I said against GSW. He really only has two players that he can conceivably guard, one is Curry and the other is 6'7 PG who posts up opposing guards. Cutting Lee and Mills out of the rotation might be something the Spurs have to do.

Lee can play when Curry is off the floor b/c Livingston doesn't run PnRs & their backup bigs suck:

6YC1vgp9H-Y

[cd021]

As much as you think we can go with this big lineup, it rarely works. You never see Pop do this because it messes up all assignments for both pg and sg. It rarely happens and you expect a whole series? Come on guy. You can do better.

Now there is an actual real take in this post, the issue with having Manu playing the backup 1 is that it creates about 20 minutes that has to be filled.

If Manu were to play the final four minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarter, and 1st four minutes of the 2nd and 4th quarter, along with the final four minutes of the each half that is still only 24 minutes with 8 of them at 2 guard (playing alongside Parker, instead of backing him up)

Ginobili normally plays in the 24-28 minute range in the playoffs at SG so that would leave 16-20 minutes unfilled. One way would be to tie Greens minutes to Curry's (if Curry plays 37 mpg then Green does too) since Green will be guarding him pretty much every second he is on the floor anyway with KL on Durant. Not a fan of this because if Green is cold from the floor (especially on the road) then his only positive on offense is spacing (teams aren't going to sag off him regardless of whether he is hitting from 3 or not)

To fill the remaining 12 minutes the Spurs could play either Simmons (for defense and his ability to attack the rim) or Bertans (shooting to help replace the 3pt spacing Mills gave).

It would be easier from a rotation stand point to simply play Mills but he has struggled against bigger guards in the past and Livingston is one of the taller PGs in the NBA with a tendency to post other guards. Spurs will probably have to play him anyways.

[cd021]

Lee can play when Curry is off the floor b/c Livingston doesn't run PnRs & their backup bigs suck:

6YC1vgp9H-Y

I consider Lee as the 10th big, which he seems to be good for that role but I think the Spurs would be better suited going with Anderson at the four ,especially if he takes a step forward in his offense, particularly hitting 3's. Spurs are eventually going to have to go small in that series and I think that pairing Anderson with Gasol would be a better against their second unit.

I think that their bigs are fine but there isn't much depth there. I am curious to see how Kerr handles the bench rotation, I think he might go Livingston, Thompson, Iggy, Dray, and West or West and Varejao either way I think Anderson makes more sense against that rotation.

[Kawhitstorm]

I consider Lee as the 10th big, which he seems to be good for that role but I think the Spurs would be better suited going with Anderson at the four ,especially if he takes a step forward in his offense, particularly hitting 3's. Spurs are eventually going to have to go small in that series and I think that pairing Anderson with Gasol would be a better against their second unit.

Fat Head would be useful against Draymond if Pau/LMA are getting torched on PnRs.

[TD 21]

Pau/LMA are most likely going to be closing games so Dedmon/Lee would be getting a good chunk of their minutes in the first 3 quarters of the game which is fine as long as Pop doesn't roll out the LMA/Lee frontline.:lol

Still, it leads to an awkward rotation, which was probably somewhat responsible for him refusing to go away from the Diaw/West front line, even against the best rebounding team in the league.

Unfortunately, we'll probably see a Lee/Dedmon front line, but eventually, even if it takes until the playoffs, expect only one to be in the rotation.

Pop will definitely play an Aldridge/Lee front line. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Lee is the first big off the bench.

[SAGirl]

Still, it leads to an awkward rotation, which was probably somewhat responsible for him refusing to go away from the Diaw/West front line, even against the best rebounding team in the league.

Unfortunately, we'll probably see a Lee/Dedmon front line, but eventually, even if it takes until the playoffs, expect only one to be in the rotation.

Pop will definitely play an Aldridge/Lee front line. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Lee is the first big off the bench.
It would be terrible if that's the case.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Sean Lee is the best defender on our team, what are you talking about?


Just needs to stay healthy this year.

[cd021]

Pau shouldn't play the 4 by all means necessary & LMA sucks as a rim protector thus the best tandem is starting Pau/LMA then rotating Dedmon/LMA then Pau/Lee.

two seasons ago LMA was actually 7th, i believe, in rim protection for the Blazers at about 46% FG% allowed at the rim. He was actually ranked higher than Duncan and M. Gasol. He isn't going to be an achor but he is a solid defender at the rim, in the post and is mobile enough to defend a bit on the perimeter. Gasol is apparently a solid rim protector as well and based on everything that I've heard and read about Dedmon, he is definitely an above average rim protector too and may be able to be a good p&r defender on top of that.

I think LMA/Gasol would be a great paring offensively in the SL but the LMA/ Dedmon pairing could be equally as good together on defense in the SL.

Dedmon and Lee together create spacing issues that are worse than Duncan and Splitter toward the end. Anderson doesn't hardly shoot 3's but is an elite mid range shooter that would mean that the front court really only has one guy who could consistently shoot from outside the paint. Mills is streaky and Manu is hot and cold from 3 so I don't love that unit. Pairing Lee and Gasol is a better fit because Lee can be the roll man, Gasol can pick and pop or post the spacing would be less of an issue on a team that really doesn't have much shooting among its actual rotation.

[bklynspursfan]

Still, it leads to an awkward rotation, which was probably somewhat responsible for him refusing to go away from the Diaw/West front line, even against the best rebounding team in the league.

Unfortunately, we'll probably see a Lee/Dedmon front line, but eventually, even if it takes until the playoffs, expect only one to be in the rotation.

Pop will definitely play an Aldridge/Lee front line. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Lee is the first big off the bench.

It wouldn't surprised me either. It might not even be the worst thing, just need to see how it all pans out. I like the idea of Pau off the bench and Dedmon starting w/LMA but that won't be the case from the jump. I think Lee adds a little of what Boris did, a guy who can handle the ball, rebounds well, and a solid passer.

[SAGirl]

two seasons ago LMA was actually 7th, i believe, in rim protection for the Blazers at about 46% FG% allowed at the rim. He was actually ranked higher than Duncan and M. Gasol. He isn't going to be an achor but he is a solid defender at the rim, in the post and is mobile enough to defend a bit on the perimeter. Gasol is apparently a solid rim protector as well and based on everything that I've heard and read about Dedmon, he is definitely an above average rim protector too and may be able to be a good p&r defender on top of that.

I think LMA/Gasol would be a great paring offensively in the SL but the LMA/ Dedmon pairing could be equally as good together on defense in the SL.

Dedmon and Lee together create spacing issues that are worse than Duncan and Splitter toward the end. Anderson doesn't hardly shoot 3's but is an elite mid range shooter that would mean that the front court really only has one guy who could consistently shoot from outside the paint. Mills is streaky and Manu is hot and cold from 3 so I don't love that unit. Pairing Lee and Gasol is a better fit because Lee can be the roll man, Gasol can pick and pop or post the spacing would be less of an issue on a team that really doesn't have much shooting among its actual rotation.

No. 1: I expect Kyle to be shooting and spotting up at the 3 point line same as Boris did and possibly shooting more frequently than Boris, since Boris was passing up shots and had not hit even a single one for like 6 weeks prior to the playoffs. He was that bad last season passing up the 3.
No. 2: Bertans is an elite sniper.
No. 3: comparing TD/Splitter to Lee/Dedmon is not the same thing. Neither is that good of a passer as the guys you are comparing them to. In the playoffs they still had to be split up too.
No. 4: Mills will continue to be streaky, but Manu overall had a very good 3 pt shooting season. The old man can't be taken for granted though so Bertans joining the team is a plus.
No. 5: The team still can pick up Forbes for Manu rest days/Mills possible injuries. Dude is an elite 3 pt shooter. Shooting is not going to be an issue for the Spurs like it was last season in the bench at least (Danny is on his own with his chemistry issues and Tony is not a volume 3 pt shooter).
No. 6: Concerning point No. 3, If Pop is foreseeing the possibility in the playoffs the paint clogging duo of Lee/Dedmon can't be paired up, he can just bench Lee entirely, but if he wants the stretch forwards to play, they need to play in the RS. They are too young and need the playing time to develop. This is not a Bonner situation where you can dust off the old vet without him having played regularly that spot through the season. The Spurs need to develop their young players if they expect to count on them in the playoffs and I think Spurs want to push the young players along.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

If Speight can be a rotation player on a 73 win team then Lee should be serviceable.:wakeup

Speights is a better player than Lee, tbh..

[TrainOfThought5]

You lost all credibility when you said Patty fucking Mills would be out of rotation. I don't think you understand basketball.

Powerful take from a powerful poster

[dabom]

Powerful take from a powerful poster
Salute

[Kawhitstorm]

Still, it leads to an awkward rotation, which was probably somewhat responsible for him refusing to go away from the Diaw/West front line, even against the best rebounding team in the league.

If Pop went the Diaw/D-Worst route then it would be Lee/Dedmon playing the majority of their minutes together which won't be as horrific considering Lee can set screens & be a facilitator from the high post like Bogut while Dedmon rim runs or cleans up the offensive board. Patty would have to be the main catalyst just like on the Boomers when he played w/ Bogut/Baynes while Manu plays the Delly role.

Bertans would have to be the wing w/ that lineup b/c Fat Head would screw up the spacing.:lol (Kyle might have to be promoted to a Boban role)

[SAGirl]

If Pop went the Diaw/D-Worst route then it would be Lee/Dedmon playing the majority of their minutes together which won't be as horrific considering Lee can set screens & be a facilitator from the high post like Bogut while Dedmon rim runs or cleans up the offensive board. Patty would have to be the main catalyst just like on the Boomers when he played w/ Bogut/Baynes while Manu plays the Delly role.

Bertans would have to be the wing w/ that lineup b/c Fat Head would screw up the spacing.:lol (Kyle might have to be promoted to a Boban role)

If Lee is Diaw, he's not going to be faring any better than the real Diaw, who was benched in the last game of the season and traded thereafter for an upgrade.

[Kawhitstorm]

If Lee is Diaw, he's not going to be faring any better than the real Diaw, who was benched in the last game of the season and traded thereafter for an upgrade.

8FiVVRVWJfo

...as long he isn't playing center, Lee is an upgrade over Diaw 1.0:wakeup

[SAGirl]

8FiVVRVWJfo

...as long he isn't playing center, Lee is an upgrade over Diaw 1.0:wakeup

Center is what he will play in a small lineup. I am going to let this one fall on your lap.

[bklynspursfan]

If Lee is Diaw, he's not going to be faring any better than the real Diaw, who was benched in the last game of the season and traded thereafter for an upgrade.

Diaw would go through stretches of seeming to play bored/lazy. It was frustrating... Lee could be a guy trying to make a name for himself again and be a bit more motivated, so we'll see. Heck when Diaw got here, he was cut by the worst team in the league and not getting any real burn, and turned out to be a different player when he signed.

All we can do is just hope Lee performs well. We will need as much depth and firepower as possible

[TD 21]

It wouldn't surprised me either. It might not even be the worst thing, just need to see how it all pans out. I like the idea of Pau off the bench and Dedmon starting w/LMA but that won't be the case from the jump. I think Lee adds a little of what Boris did, a guy who can handle the ball, rebounds well, and a solid passer.

Gasol off the bench won't be the case period and Diaw is a pathetic rebounder.

I'm not concerned with who the first big off the bench is, so much as how the rotation works. Does he play Lee and Dedmon together? Is he open to not having Lee in the rotation? If so, is Lee aware of and okay with this?



If Pop went the Diaw/D-Worst route then it would be Lee/Dedmon playing the majority of their minutes together which won't be as horrific considering Lee can set screens & be a facilitator from the high post like Bogut while Dedmon rim runs or cleans up the offensive board. Patty would have to be the main catalyst just like on the Boomers when he played w/ Bogut/Baynes while Manu plays the Delly role.

Bertans would have to be the wing w/ that lineup b/c Fat Head would screw up the spacing.:lol (Kyle might have to be promoted to a Boban role)

Unfortunately, an Anderson-Lee-Dedmon front line is probably the plan, at least going in.

Whether worthy or not, Anderson will probably not only be handed a rotation spot throughout, but battle Mills for the most total minutes off the bench.

If only West would have re-signed, this could have been mostly cleared up. He'd have been a much better fit next season than last and then he'll be on the Warriors. Incidentally, Lee would have been a much better fit for them.

[Seventyniner]

Unfortunately, an Anderson-Lee-Dedmon front line is probably the plan, at least going in.

Whether worthy or not, Anderson will probably not only be handed a rotation spot throughout, but battle Mills for the most total minutes off the bench.

If only West would have re-signed, this could have been mostly cleared up. He'd have been a much better fit next season than last and then he'll be on the Warriors. Incidentally, Lee would have been a much better fit for them.

Diaw/West was bad because neither was a center. Lee/Dedmon will be bad because neither is a PF.

I agree that having West instead of Lee would be ideal. West/Dedmon would have been pretty good, especially with Manu to hit Dedmon on the PnR to open up even more space for West's shooting.

If the Spurs really do plan to use Anderson (and even Bertans) as a 4, though, West would just inhibit their growth. I hope that Lee ends up being the 5th big.

[SAGirl]

The entire thread was spawned out of Kawhitstorm hate on Kyle Anderson. He keeps devising all these plans and lineups to keep Anderson glued to the deep bench... In fact suggesting Anderson remain a strict deep bench player padding stats in garbage time like Boban at the beginning of this thread. It's obviously an agenda motivated thread and very ridiculous bc Anderson was already a rotation player last season. Given his youth and shooting improvements he is in fact poised to trend up, not down, and the Spurs are likely expecting him to be able to play more minutes than he did last season.

The subject of how Lee can contribute to the team is in itself an interesting discussion, but it's been tainted by KStorm's agenda.

At this point, I agree with Seventyniner who said:

"Diaw/West was bad because neither was a center. Lee/Dedmon will be bad because neither is a PF."

I am sure Pop will play with lineups regardless and find minutes for everyone through the season, because he did that for all his players last season and everyone had opportunities to fill in roles.

As for TD 21, I always find your posts insightful and spot on, even though I may have a different view. I like that your posts are not agenda driven and you usually tells it like it is. :toast

bklynspursfan I know you are a team fan and so am I. Though my favorite is Anderson, I still want what is best for the team and stated that already. Lee is a gimmicky player though, needing specific guys to both cover for him and space the floor for him. He's not easily fit in with anybody and I expect Pop to push the young forwards anyways bc the team needs to rebuild the depth they have hemorrhaged the past couple of seasons with younger players. I expect Lee to provide support minutes when LMA/Pau/Dedmon face foul trouble, rest or injuries, and maybe times when Bertans and/or Anderson are benched to get a tongue lashing from Pop, but ultimately it is in the team's interest to push the last two along to develop and do well and they will get chances to do that.

[TD 21]

Diaw/West was bad because neither was a center. Lee/Dedmon will be bad because neither is a PF.

I agree that having West instead of Lee would be ideal. West/Dedmon would have been pretty good, especially with Manu to hit Dedmon on the PnR to open up even more space for West's shooting.

If the Spurs really do plan to use Anderson (and even Bertans) as a 4, though, West would just inhibit their growth. I hope that Lee ends up being the 5th big.

Lee is more of a center offensively, but he's a power forward defensively. As poor a fit as Dedmon and him would be together offensively, they'd be as perfect a fit defensively.

Dedmon would have been the most impacted had West re-signed. Instead of having a chance at being the third big, he'd have been on the fringe of the rotation.


As for TD 21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781), I always find your posts insightful and spot on, even though I may have a different view. I like that your posts are not agenda driven and you usually tells it like it is. :toast

:toast

But :lmao for repeatedly allowing yourself (the same applies to anyone who does) to get trolled on the same subject.

[SAGirl]

Lee is more of a center offensively, but he's a power forward defensively. As poor a fit as Dedmon and him would be together offensively, they'd be as perfect a fit defensively.

Dedmon would have been the most impacted had West re-signed. Instead of having a chance at being the third big, he'd have been on the fringe of the rotation.



:toast

But :lmao for repeatedly allowing yourself (the same applies to anyone who does) to get trolled on the same subject.
Yea, I do allow myself to get trolled lol

[Seventyniner]

Lee is more of a center offensively, but he's a power forward defensively. As poor a fit as Dedmon and him would be together offensively, they'd be as perfect a fit defensively.

I think I'd go the other way here, that Dedmon would have an easier time keeping up with PFs on defense. However I would need to watch both Dedmon and Lee more to see which of them has better lateral quickness, I've just been assuming that it's Dedmon (he is definitely more athletic and younger).

But I thought the point of this thread was to talk about Lee's defense. I don't think it's bottom-of-the-barrel, but he could very well be the only net minus on defense in the big man rotation. That, coupled with his lack of range on offense, could very well relegate him to being the 5th big and regular season minutes sponge.

[cutewizard]

Rebounding === desire..................:toast

[SAGirl]

Rebounding === desire..................:toast

I have heard he really doesn't contest shots and is already getting in position for the rebound... something that was at times said of K.Love. There are definite rebound chasers that don't help defensively, don't contest shots and just get in position for the miss (if there is a miss).

[TD 21]

I think I'd go the other way here, that Dedmon would have an easier time keeping up with PFs on defense. However I would need to watch both Dedmon and Lee more to see which of them has better lateral quickness, I've just been assuming that it's Dedmon (he is definitely more athletic and younger).

But I thought the point of this thread was to talk about Lee's defense. I don't think it's bottom-of-the-barrel, but he could very well be the only net minus on defense in the big man rotation. That, coupled with his lack of range on offense, could very well relegate him to being the 5th big and regular season minutes sponge.

That would leave Lee to protect the rim though. They might consider that against Curry and Lillard, but with how much small ball those teams play, I can't imagine both Lee and Dedmon being in the rotation against them.

Unfortunately, because Lee is a more proven player, he'll probably have a slight leg up on Dedmon going in.

[Kawhitstorm]

:wakeup

[Chinook]

I'm hoping that we get to a point where someone can bump the Pau thread.


For good reasons of course.

[spursistan]

Bump.

dem blocks doe :wow..OP looking good thus far..

[timtonymanu]

Been really pleased with Lee. I just hope he doesn't crumble like West did after he himself looked good for the Spurs last season

[bklynspursfan]

He's been everything lots of people thought he wouldn't be. It's great to see. He came in pretty confident and it continues to show. :tu

[Chinook]

Looks great playing center. Pretty sure some people are too quick to jump the gun.

[bklynspursfan]

Looks great playing center. Pretty sure some people are too quick to jump the gun.

I think the guy came in and shocked many people with his play. It just goes to show like you said, people are quick to jump the gun with predictions and what not.

the whole 4/5 thing doesn't seem to matter either, I mean he's played with Pau, LMA, & Dedmon and has seemed to have a positive impact regardless. He's like the big man version of Patty Mills with the energy he brings

[Chinook]

I think the guy came in and shocked many people with his play. It just goes to show like you said, people are quick to jump the gun with predictions and what not.

the whole 4/5 thing doesn't seem to matter either, I mean he's played with Pau, LMA, & Dedmon and has seemed to have a positive impact regardless. He's like the big man version of Patty Mills with the energy he brings

I'm really liking him so far. I hope he stays for a reasonable deal if he can keep this up. He's even shooting better from outside.

And jumping the gun is fine. Making threads disparaging other people's takes after like two games is what strikes me as silly. This is a long season, and more twists and turns are on the horizon.

[dabom]

Hopefully he proves to be a good addition, but I am wary of him. His videos in GSW he was wide open with absolutely no one guarding him as caught the ball and drove relatively easily. The result of the gravity in GSW is not easily replicated. In Dallas he was playing next to Dirk Nowitzky and the floor was wide open for him. They were playing him as the undersized center in a 4 out style.

In Boston without other floor stretchers he didn't do so well and despite his stats shooting, he hasn't been a net positive the past couple of seasons. It could be his injuries, but it also could be other issues. So no, not that excited about him, but he is a Spur now so there is no point in getting up a case against him.


Hopefully he has a good season and works out for the team. :tu
:flag:

Contrary to you though, I don't think Kyle will be restricted to third string, but he's likely to continue to play both forward spots. Hopefully his improved shooting helps out no matter where he's played.

Are you always wrong? :lol

[sasaint]

I'm really liking him so far. I hope he stays for a reasonable deal if he can keep this up. He's even shooting better from outside.

And jumping the gun is fine. Making threads disparaging other people's takes after like two games is what strikes me as silly. This is a long season, and more twists and turns are on the horizon.

To say that I am pleasantly surprised by Lee's play would be a gross understatement. I really liked him in his days as a Knick. But he has been pretty "meh" since then. So far this season his hustle and athleticism have far exceeded what I thought he had left in the tank. :wow

[spursistan]

Effort and dedication are half of the defensive battle; and I think Lee has really put it in his short stint with us despite his inherent flaws on that end..Dude's sneaky anticipation has him flying for the boards compared to lazy ground-boundedness of the Turd Towers last season...

Let's hope he keeps it up, old veterans tend to fizzle as the season wears on..

[bklynspursfan]

I'm really liking him so far. I hope he stays for a reasonable deal if he can keep this up. He's even shooting better from outside.

And jumping the gun is fine. Making threads disparaging other people's takes after like two games is what strikes me as silly. This is a long season, and more twists and turns are on the horizon.

Agreed..Just childish stuff.

I was also glad to see him knocking down that mid-range shot. It's something he was always capable of. And we all know how Chip has helped guys in the past. What is great about him, is he always seems to bring it energy and hustle wise. He will have off games like everyone, but it's good to have a guy his size be a hustle player and someone who is OK doing lots of dirty work.

Not to mention his ball handling/play making ability as well.

[Texas_Ranger]

i am impressed with him so far... Was't the biggest fan of him when the Spurs signed him, but he is playing really well. just keep it up Lee.

[GSH]

Agreed..Just childish stuff.

I was also glad to see him knocking down that mid-range shot. It's something he was always capable of. And we all know how Chip has helped guys in the past. What is great about him, is he always seems to bring it energy and hustle wise. He will have off games like everyone, but it's good to have a guy his size be a hustle player and someone who is OK doing lots of dirty work.

Not to mention his ball handling/play making ability as well.


I am really pleased with the way Lee is playing. As long as Pop doesn't resort to using him as a center, the way he did with West, I think he is a great addition to the team.

But about that mid-range shot? I know he's made some. But you understand that for most of his career he's sub-.400 for everything over 3 feet? Would it surprise you that he's shooting .353 this year on shots from 3-10 feet? It's a small sample, but that works both ways. Making a few from mid-range doesn't mean that he's suddenly going to be knocking those down at a high rate. I hope he does, but he has a whole career that says otherwise. Maybe Chip can help him improve, but it's way too soon to declare it fixed. And since we're jumping on people in this thread for making up their minds too quickly, I'd slow down on that one.

But that being said, I've said from the beginning that he's a finishing sonofabitch around the rim. He's actually missed some of those bunnies that I normally expect him to make, but that doesn't change anything. He has always been a great finisher. He's also got really good handles for a big man, and I don't mind seeing him bring the ball up the floor at all - which is a real luxury - and he runs the floor well. Great fit for a bench that plays at a faster pace than the starting unit.

[bklynspursfan]

I am really pleased with the way Lee is playing. As long as Pop doesn't resort to using him as a center, the way he did with West, I think he is a great addition to the team.

But about that mid-range shot? I know he's made some. But you understand that for most of his career he's sub-.400 for everything over 3 feet? Would it surprise you that he's shooting .353 this year on shots from 3-10 feet? It's a small sample, but that works both ways. Making a few from mid-range doesn't mean that he's suddenly going to be knocking those down at a high rate. I hope he does, but he has a whole career that says otherwise. Maybe Chip can help him improve, but it's way too soon to declare it fixed. And since we're jumping on people in this thread for making up their minds too quickly, I'd slow down on that one.

But that being said, I've said from the beginning that he's a finishing sonofabitch around the rim. He's actually missed some of those bunnies that I normally expect him to make, but that doesn't change anything. He has always been a great finisher. He's also got really good handles for a big man, and I don't mind seeing him bring the ball up the floor at all - which is a real luxury - and he runs the floor well. Great fit for a bench that plays at a faster pace than the starting unit.

Huh? All I said was he has always been capable, and mentioned Chip has helped guys before. (Insinuating he can further help Lee improve) I never said it was fixed or he was great at it. I realize the %, and he's not LMA or Dirk out there, but he is capable and not like Splitter out there. In a hunch, he will take the shot. That's a good thing.

I agree about him finishing around the basket. He finishes strong too which is great. Not only with dunks, but he's just aggressive when he's around the rim

[GSH]

BTW - Lee is just under 6'8". People can say he looks good playing the C all they want to, as long as he's playing against a small lineup, or against another center who is under-sized, or just not very good. If he had been in the game against last year's OKC team, for instance, with those monsters they had, he would have struggled just like West did.

Lots of under-sized players get put at the 5 when both teams are playing small ball. That doesn't make them centers. Lee is going to be good for small ball, and I think he'll be a great complement to Dedmon.

[GSH]

Huh? All I said was he has always been capable, and mentioned Chip has helped guys before. (Insinuating he can further help Lee improve) I never said it was fixed or he was great at it. I realize the %, and he's not LMA or Dirk out there, but he is capable and not like Splitter out there. In a hunch, he will take the shot. That's a good thing.

I agree about him finishing around the basket. He finishes strong too which is great. Not only with dunks, but he's just aggressive when he's around the rim


Sorry. I promise I wasn't trying to jump on you. I've just watched Lee play quite a bit over the years, and he's been consistently not-great from anything outside about 6 feet.

The comment about not judging too quickly was aimed at all the people who've decided that Lee is something different than he's ever been, based on a few games here. They're bashing people for making up their minds too quickly, based on a few games. Sort of ironic.

All I know is that over a fairly long career, they haven't gone in very consistently - for whatever reason. A lot of the standard shot-percentage tables show shots from 0-3 feet, and from 3-10 feet. Lee's FG% from 0-3 has been exceptional. From 3-10, not so much. But I've watch him enough to be pretty confident saying that he's still pretty good out to about 6 feet. Which means he's always been pretty shitty from 6-10 feet. But I agree - I would rather have a guy who will take the shot with confidence in a pinch. Better that than a bad pass and not getting any shot up that possession.

[DPG21920]

Sorry. I promise I wasn't trying to jump on you. I've just watched Lee play quite a bit over the years, and he's been consistently not-great from anything outside about 6 feet.

The comment about not judging too quickly was aimed at all the people who've decided that Lee is something different than he's ever been, based on a few games here. They're bashing people for making up their minds too quickly, based on a few games. Sort of ironic.

All I know is that over a fairly long career, they haven't gone in very consistently - for whatever reason. A lot of the standard shot-percentage tables show shots from 0-3 feet, and from 3-10 feet. Lee's FG% from 0-3 has been exceptional. From 3-10, not so much. But I've watch him enough to be pretty confident saying that he's still pretty good out to about 6 feet. Which means he's always been pretty shitty from 6-10 feet. But I agree - I would rather have a guy who will take the shot with confidence in a pinch. Better that than a bad pass and not getting any shot up that possession.

Lee's value from 10+feet has never been his shooting (although he's willing) but his ability to actually dribble a basketball and make good passes.

It's something that he used to do regularly and with success.

[TD 21]

:lmao Claiming people are "jumping the gun", while doing just that (small sample size) and neglecting to mention that the defense and rebounding have fallen off significantly in that stretch.



BTW - Lee is just under 6'8".

They don't play barefoot. Lee plays at roughly 6'8.75'', hence the 6'9'' listing.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I'm loving Lee's competence at both ends, but most of all his edge - he always played hard, but he's definitely been instructed to be the hard-fouling attitudinal mofo for this team and it fits him. Under-rated get for the front office of a guy who I thought might be on his way to China.

[Play Boban]

MVLee. :bobo

[Seventyniner]

It's nice to have a rich man's version of a hustle big; Lee is more talented than most who play that role.

[skulls138]

I'm loving Lee's competence at both ends, but most of all his edge - he always played hard, but he's definitely been instructed to be the hard-fouling attitudinal mofo for this team and it fits him. Under-rated get for the front office of a guy who I thought might be on his way to China.His attitude reminds me somewhat of Laimbeer, just wanting to start shit.

[Kawhitstorm]

He's actually ready to play when called upon unlike Diaw 1.0:

cIbD0Cm9pEs

Hopefully, Pop uses the big man rotation just like when Tiago/Tim were starting together & Diaw/Baynes were coming off the bench where he would have Tiago sub out early so he could anchor the second unit.

-Lee: Diaw
-Dedmon: Baynes

[dabom]

People expecting Lee to be good on defense or even better than West was last year in the regular season will be disappointed.

:lmao

[dabom]

Why is it the same posters in the wrong side of everything? :lol

[tmtcsc]

David Lee may not be a great defender but the dude is competitive, plays with passion and hustles. I don't mind seeing him on the court at all.

[TimDunkem]

:lmao
:lmao

[YGWHI]

David Lee may not be a great defender but the dude is competitive, plays with passion and hustles. I don't mind seeing him on the court at all.

Also, his passing is very underrated.

[tholdren]

Also, his passing is very underrated.

Lee was awesome

[DPG21920]

:lmao

I don't get the bump here? Lee has been great but not on defense. Certainly not better on defense than West in the regular season last year.

[cd021]

David Lee may not be a great defender but the dude is competitive, plays with passion and hustles. I don't mind seeing him on the court at all.

Love watching him play; rolls hard, runs the floor with purpose, can finish with either hand and is an excellent passer and solid on the glass. his chemistry with Aldridge seems to be better than Pau and LMA's.

[cd021]

It's nice to have a rich man's version of a hustle big; Lee is more talented than most who play that role.

I've said this before but for the way he hustles, he is more skilled than most other big's play that role

[dabom]

:lmao

You said "good on defense" or "better than west defense" well he surely has been good on defense so far. :lmao

Please go move the goalpost faggot. :lol

How many times do i got to prove you wrong before I get MOD privileges. ? :lol

[DPG21920]

He has not been good on defense though. It's not like he's been a net negative or anything but he has not been good on defense.

[dabom]

He has not been good on defense though. It's not like he's been a net negative or anything but he has not been good on defense.

:lmao

[GSH]

He has not been good on defense though. It's not like he's been a net negative or anything but he has not been good on defense.


Yep. Last night, with 13.4 seconds left in regulation, and the game tied, Pop substituted Simmons and Kyle for Lee and Mills - for defense.

I know there are a half dozen or so people here who know everything better than everybody. But when Pop needed a stop, he replaced Lee with Simmons.

[GSH]

Yep. Last night, with 13.4 seconds left in regulation, and the game tied, Pop substituted Simmons and Kyle for Lee and Mills - for defense.

I know there are a half dozen or so people here who know everything better than everybody. But when Pop needed a stop, he replaced Lee with Simmons.



:lmao

There, I did it for you. Not that you're predictable or anything.

[dabom]

Yep. Last night, with 13.4 seconds left in regulation, and the game tied, Pop substituted Simmons and Kyle for Lee and Mills - for defense.

I know there are a half dozen or so people here who know everything better than everybody. But when Pop needed a stop, he replaced Lee with Simmons.

Being good on defense doesn't mean they are better than their other teammates, faggot. Theory debunked. :lmao

Lee is a tremendous rebounder. Already making him a good defender. I can keep going, but I don't debate with faggots. :lmao

[DPG21920]

You've gone full dummy. It's reached pity levels now

[GSH]

Lee is a tremendous rebounder. Already making him a good defender.


Even for you, that's dumb. You little over-achiever you.


If you can't defend... if you can't force missed shots... there aren't any rebounds to pull down. So, no, Shortbus - being a good rebounder is not the same thing as being a good defender.




You've gone full dummy. It's reached pity levels now

What he said.

[dabom]

Even for you, that's dumb. You little over-achiever you.


If you can't defend... if you can't force missed shots... there aren't any rebounds to pull down. So, no, Shortbus - being a good rebounder is not the same thing as being a good defender.


What he said.

Getting rebounds is part of defense you stupid fucks. :lmao


I'm done. :lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

He has not been good on defense though. It's not like he's been a net negative or anything but he has not been good on defense.

My point was that he isn't as terrible a defender as folks make it seem, he is basically what Diaw 1.0 was last season on defense aside from rebounding.

[Seventyniner]

Yep. Last night, with 13.4 seconds left in regulation, and the game tied, Pop substituted Simmons and Kyle for Lee and Mills - for defense.

I know there are a half dozen or so people here who know everything better than everybody. But when Pop needed a stop, he replaced Lee with Simmons.

That was a special situation, obv; Lee and Simmons don't play the same position. But Pop did the same with Duncan at the end of game 6 in 2013. It's more about being able to switch everything on the perimeter so lateral mobility is king.

[look_at_g_shred]

misconception or misperception ?

[GSH]

Getting rebounds is part of defense you stupid fucks. :lmao


I'm done. :lmao


Gasol pulls down a lot of boards. So you're saying Gasol is a good defender? Nice.

You were done a long time ago.

[dabom]

Gasol pulls down a lot of boards. So you're saying Gasol is a good defender? Nice.

You were done a long time ago.

I don't think you know what defense is faggot. :lmao

[unleashbaynes]

I don't think you know what defense is faggot. :lmao

Jesus christ, how old are you? The million lmao emojis and calling everyone stupid faggot has been a dead horse for quite some time now. It's neither funny nor clever.

[GSH]

Jesus christ, how old are you? The million lmao emojis and calling everyone stupid faggot has been a dead horse for quite some time now. It's neither funny nor clever.


It's what you have to do when you don't have anything else to say. See my sig:

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol

OP needs to comeback and deliver more of these goods, tbh

[cd98]

I think it's a misconception to think David Lee could guard Z-Bo. We got lucky in the first two games, but it was just a matter of time before he started feasting.

[SAGirl]

Per ESPN Stats & Info, the Grizzlies were 5-5 shooting with two and-ones when guarded by David Lee.

It's possible if Lee doesn't play the deep bench might have actually been able to make a better run. They had no trouble scoring, but they could not stop Grizz... Lee was a big reason for it.

[Proxy]

Only Spur I've seen guard playoff-mode ZBo 1on1 was TD

[Joseph Kony]

Lee has been absolute fucking garbage this series. dude needs to be benched for Bertans from here on out, Z-Bo is shitting all over him, dude cant rotate, and gives up retarded fouls constantly. this just isnt his series tbh.

[cd98]

Only Spur I've seen guard playoff-mode ZBo 1on1 was TD

Splitter did too.

[Leetonidas]

Splitter did too.

Don't forget Bonner tbh

[TheGreatYacht]

Splitter didn't really guard ZBo 1 on 1. Kawhi was always the double guy coming over to help.

Spurs should do that... but with TP and let Selden kill you instead of ZBo.

[cd98]

Don't forget Bonner tbh

I think Bonner just stood in the vicinity. He didn't actually defend him.

[Slippy]

Lee is becoming the matt bonner of the spurs on defense. The goto guy opposition teams target when trying to score on.

[spurraider21]

:lmao ban OP

[DAF86]

Lee is unplayable against the Rockets, tbh.

[HarlemHeat37]

But he's better than David West:lol

[apalisoc_9]

Meanwhile Dedman is a DNP...While these two outspoken White and Culutred players with the average age of 35 is playing :lmao

[Ice009]

Lee can't guard out on the perimeter and he also can't shoot from the perimeter. What was Pop thinking by starting him??????????? I like Lee guarding someone like Z-bo that doesn't have range out to the three point line, but not against a perimeter shooting team like the Rockets.

Even though Dewayne is a big, he can guard out on the perimeter, and he also has the height to contest those Houston three point shots. I love David Lee, but what was Pop thinking starting him? What was he expecting him to do?

[spursistan]

Bump

2017 D-Worst, not even funny :lol..

[Floyd Pacquiao]

How did this man ever make an all star team? Diaw>Lee