Damn, Stephen Jackson just aired out Porker's dirty laundry on THTV

[Mikeanaro]

i prefer months.

I prefer David Lee to play PG ASAP.

[John Petrucci]

I prefer David Lee to play PG ASAP.

:lmao

[gambit1990]

I prefer David Lee to play PG ASAP.
right, because david lee was drafted as a point guard.

[RD2191]

http://dc688.4shared.com/img/OfKMil4Ace/s24/15012be8fd0/Bermuda_Porker?async&rand=0.3213826156981767
:lmao

[timtonymanu]

Why don't you supplement your post with some facts instead of just using words like "heroballing" and "slurping"? Good content though. Revelatory stuff.

Game 6: 6/23 26%, Game 7: 3/12 25%, in the 2013 NBA Finals. I just gave you your favorite kind of stats. Now go back to slurping Parker more.

[james evans]

The thing with this thread is that most of us already knew this and have been saying it for years, now someone who actually played with parker isn't afraid to speak about it says WHAT WE'VE FUCKING SEEN, he's a "hater".. :lol

[rogcl1]

Or you could argue he has no filter or ability to control himself or his emotions and has never learned anything or grown as a human being. He is insane. Same behavior over and over again expecting a different result.

S jax's biggest lifetime detriment to stephen jackson is stephen jackson. In short, he might be retarded.

This.

[J_Paco]

I just hope Murray will be ready to take over in the next few years.

I wish you idiots would get it in your heads that he isn't a PG. The Spurs haven't found Tony's successor.

It is funny that Tony is accused of selfish play and "heroballing," yet that is all Jackson ever did (minus 2003 and end of 2012 with Spurs) through his time in the NBA. As much as I liked him, he was the epitome of a player that was selfish, has a poor BBIQ and thought he was better than he really was.

That attitude helped him make the NBA and having a pretty successful career, but it also led to him getting thrown out on his ass every place he played.

Let's compare statistics to see who was more efficient, unselfish and smart.

Career statistics () = postseason

FG%:

Tony Parker: .494 (.460)
Stephen Jackson - .414 (.404)

Career Assist %:

TP - 32.5 (27.8)
SJax - 16.4 (14.4)

USG%:

TP - 25.4 (27.4)
SJax - 24.2 (21.9)

TO%:

TP: 13.9 (13.3)
SJax: 14.6 (17.0)

[SASdynasty!]

Game 6: 6/23 26%, Game 7: 3/12 25%, in the 2013 NBA Finals. I just gave you your favorite kind of stats. Now go back to slurping Parker more.
Game 6: 19/8/3 (including 2 of the clutchest shots in Finals history)

[SupremeGuy]

http://dc688.4shared.com/img/OfKMil4Ace/s24/15012be8fd0/Bermuda_Porker?async&rand=0.3213826156981767:rollin

[hooperflash]

"The Bulls want me." :lol

[Kawhitstorm]

I wish you idiots would get it in your heads that he isn't a PG. The Spurs haven't found Tony's successor.

It is funny that Tony is accused of selfish play and "heroballing," yet that is all Jackson ever did (minus 2003 and end of 2012 with Spurs) through his time in the NBA. As much as I liked him, he was the epitome of a player that was selfish, has a poor BBIQ and thought he was better than he really was.

That attitude helped him make the NBA and having a pretty successful career, but it also led to him getting thrown out on his ass every place he played.

Let's compare statistics to see who was more efficient, unselfish and smart.

Dumbass, you're comparing player who have TOTALLY different roles.

In any case, Stephen Jackson OUTPLAYED MVP Dirk in '07 meanwhile Porker couldn't outplay ROOKIE Devin Harris in '06.:lol

If you go back to 2003 when they were BOTH starter on the same team, Jack had a higher value-over replacement than Porker who was rated as a replacement level player in the postseason.:lol (Makes sense b/c Speedy outplayed him)

Porker had a team WORST -17 on/off number during the '03 postseason, meaning they were 17 points worse w/ him on the floor.:lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

Game 6: 6/23 26%, Game 7: 3/12 25%, in the 2013 NBA Finals. I just gave you your favorite kind of stats. Now go back to slurping Parker more.

What's worse is that he got outplayed by Mario "scrub" Chalmers in Gm 2 BEFORE he even re-aggravated his hamstring.:lol

Chris Paul meanwhile was taking a shyt on Porker playing on one leg.:wakeup

[rastaspur]

.

Your mom's hair is slightly greasy

My mother is currently bald from chemo treatments for cancer. Doubt she makes it through her third round of treatments.

Good comeback for a 10 year old though. You are clearly a highly intelligent person. These witty your mom comments are very impressive. Your repertoire is very diverse.

[SASdynasty!]

Dumbass, you're comparing player who have TOTALLY different roles.

In any case, Stephen Jackson OUTPLAYED MVP Dirk in '07 meanwhile Porker couldn't outplay ROOKIE Devin Harris in '06.:lol

If you go back to 2003 when they were BOTH starter on the same team, Jack had a higher value-over replacement than Porker who was rated as a replacement level player in the postseason.:lol (Makes sense b/c Speedy outplayed him)

Porker had a team WORST -17 on/off number during the '03 postseason, meaning they were 17 points worse w/ him on the floor.:lmao
Wait, did you honestly just champion Stephen Jackson's '07 run and leave out the fact that Parker won FMVP that year? Lol, wow.

Oh and by the way, why don't you ever post stats to back your claims? Oh, here's why:

Spurs/Mavs 2006:

Tony Parker: 20/4/3
Devin Harris: 13/3/2

2003 NBA Finals:

Tony Parker: 14/4/3
Speedy Claxton: 6/2/1

If you want to start claiming that guys with less than half of the other player's production "outplayed" them based on certain advanced stats, then please be consistent and say that Boban was our best player in the playoffs.

[SASdynasty!]

What's worse is that he got outplayed by Mario "scrub" Chalmers in Gm 2 BEFORE he even re-aggravated his hamstring.:lol

Chris Paul meanwhile was taking a shyt on Porker playing on one leg.:wakeup
2013 NBA Finals:

Tony Parker: 16/6 on 41%
Mario Chalmers: 11/3 on 39%

2014 NBA Finals:

Tony Parker: 18/5 on 48%
Mario Chalmers: 4/3 on 33%

So shut up about Mario Chalmers outplaying Parker in the Finals. It didn't happen. If you want to pick one or two games, apply that standard to every other player in the league and you'll find that everyone gets outplayed in individual games. If you're not smart enough to understand that, I'm sorry. Really sorry.

If you really want to compare Chalmers, then use Ginobili...the production is a lot closer.

Oh and as for Chris Paul, how about the 2012 playoffs (both in their prime) where Parker swept Paul while laughing on the bench when the Spurs were down 20+ because he knew we'd be fine when he came back in.

Tony Parker: 17/8/3 (on less minutes)
Chris Paul: 13/9/4

Unlike you cherry-picking individual games, I'll use entire series for my arguments.

[SupremeGuy]

Honest question fagdynasty: where do you rank porker all time on the Spurs?

[Mikeanaro]

Honest question fagdynasty: where do you rank porker all time on the Spurs?
He is losing it.

[Kawhitstorm]

2013 NBA Finals:

Tony Parker: 16/6 on 41%
Mario Chalmers: 11/3 on 39%

Name me a point guard that has been outplayed by Mario "scrub" Chalmers in 3 postseason games?:wakeup

Porker got outplayed in Gm 2/6/7, Chalmers wetting the bed when Danny/Neal are going off is irrelevant b/c he could have dropped 30 & it wouldn't have mattered.

[SASdynasty!]

Honest question fagdynasty: where do you rank porker all time on the Spurs?
Duncan
Robinson
Parker
Ginobili
Leonard
Gervin
Silas
Elliott
Bowen
Kenan
Robertson
Gilmore
Horry
AJ

*as Spurs, min 5 seasons

[TheGreatYacht]

Duncan
Robinson
Parker
Ginobili
Leonard
Gervin
Silas
Elliott
Bowen
Kenan
Robertson
Gilmore
Horry
AJ

*as Spurs, min 5 seasons
Pretty good list tbh. Would rank Gervin 4th and Bowen 6th

[apalisoc_9]

Porker over Manu :lmao

[BillMc]

DuncanRobinsonParkerGinobiliLeonardGervinSilasElli ottBowenKenanRobertsonGilmoreHorryAJ*as Spurs, min 5 seasonsGood list. I'd keep it exactly as is but move Gervin up to 3.

[dbestpro]

If it were a draft and each player were available as a rookie it would go Duncan, Robinson, Gervin, and Gilmore.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

You saw the stats dumbass, easily the best Spur on the team and it ain't close. By the way the refs robbed the Spurs in Game 6, but you probably weren't a fan then :sleep

Parker outplayed Westbrick. Kiwi got benched by Stephen Jackson and got out scored by 20ppg!!!!!!! against Durant. 20. Twenty. Two-Zero.

Not even Jordan could carry a system player like that past OKC :lol

I'm having fun at your huge meltdown

[dabom]

Manu is easily third.

[SASdynasty!]

Good list. I'd keep it exactly as is but move Gervin up to 3.
Yah, I couldn't argue against that. Gervin was a scoring machine. I tend to weigh titles heavily, probably to a fault.

[SASdynasty!]

Name me a point guard that has been outplayed by Mario "scrub" Chalmers in 3 postseason games?:wakeup

Porker got outplayed in Gm 2/6/7, Chalmers wetting the bed when Danny/Neal are going off is irrelevant b/c he could have dropped 30 & it wouldn't have mattered.
Like I said, everyone gets outplayed in individual games. By your definition, Kawhi got outplayed by Rashard Lewis in 2014.

[K...]

Manu is easily third.

Third best overall but not franchise. The difference is team rank includes usage (favors Parker) and didn't include Olympics (massively favors ginobilli)

If you were drafting on need for this team you (well not you, but a reasonable person) would take Parker over ginobili. If you were starting with a new team then gino is third.

[J_Paco]

Dumbass, you're comparing player who have TOTALLY different roles.

In any case, Stephen Jackson OUTPLAYED MVP Dirk in '07 meanwhile Porker couldn't outplay ROOKIE Devin Harris in '06.:lol

If you go back to 2003 when they were BOTH starter on the same team, Jack had a higher value-over replacement than Porker who was rated as a replacement level player in the postseason.:lol (Makes sense b/c Speedy outplayed him)

Porker had a team WORST -17 on/off number during the '03 postseason, meaning they were 17 points worse w/ him on the floor.:lmao

Who is comparing "roles," idiot?

I'm giving statistical proof that shows that Parker is more efficient, is better at taking care of the ball and is less "selfish." Jackson in his prime was a high usage, inefficient, ball stopping, head case that was unceremoniously ousted from every team he played on. He was way more selfish and "about himself" (left a championship team for more money) than Tony ever was, yet idiots are going to use his useless quotes/hot takes to shit on Parker.

The epitome of hypocrisy, TBH. Tony might be a shitty person (probably is) or whatever, but i don't see how that completely matters since no one has ever said that he's an asshole on the court. Except this hypocrite (that I like as a player) that needs to keep himself relevant. Even Brent Barry, who would have all the reason in the world to crap on Parker the basketball player, who took swipes at both Manu and Bruce Bowen when he originally left the team and went to Houston hasn't to my knowledge taken swipes (about his on-court play).

Just Jackson and the band of retards on here that imagine everyone on the roster "hates" Tony. The infatuation with him on here is unreal. I imagine there is some other underlying reason for all the hatred.......

The 5 greatest Spurs ranking goes......

1.Duncan





2. Robinson.
3. Gervin
4. Tony ( better career numbers than Manu)
5. Manu

After Timmy and David it is a bit of a toss up (or Manu, Tony & George are interchangeable), but George gets the nod (IMO) for carrying the team in the early years and being the original "franchise" player. No George Gervin then no modern Spurs in SA......

[FkLA]

Just lol at Enrique fans resorting to comparing his stats to Jackson's. As if that's supposed to prove that Rique isn't a selfish piece of shit. Why don't y'all compare his stats to Barry too? That'll prove that Barry, and not yalls beloved Enrique, was the asshole in that whole fiasco!!

[Joseph Kony]

you guys and your little player fan shticks have taken over the role of lamest feud in ST history from sbm/xmas1997 and chump/blake :lmao

[J_Paco]

Just lol at Enrique fans resorting to comparing his stats to Jackson's. As if that's supposed to prove that Rique isn't a selfish piece of shit. Why don't y'all compare his stats to Barry too? That'll prove that Barry, and not yalls beloved Enrique, was the asshole in that whole fiasco!!

Not a "Tony Parker fan," numb nuts. Just an actually Spurs fan that sees bullshit and calls it.

My point in comparing career statistics is that they prove Jackson was never a "team player." He was always a "me first," ball stopper that was highly, highly inefficient and turnover prone. You know, all the bulshit y'all say Tony is/was while Jackson's hypcorite ass actually is.

Or didn't him wanting more minutes than Manu, Danny and Kawhi while being far worse than all three and being a big distraction in the locker room - so much so that Pop waived him on the last week of the playoffs and he couldn't be signed by any other PO teams - show your dumbass that? Yes, that is the guy who can speak to other player's character on-court.

[Spurtacular]

4. Tony ( better career numbers than Manu)
5. Manu



Manu was a two-way player; Parker wasn't. Manu made his teammates better; Parker didn't. Manu sacrificed; Tony didn't.

[Spurtacular]

Duncan
Robinson
Parker
Ginobili
Leonard
Gervin
Silas
Elliott
Bowen
Kenan
Robertson
Gilmore
Horry
AJ

*as Spurs, min 5 seasons

1. Duncan
2. Manu
3. D-Rob
4. Kawhi
5. Bowen
6. Parker
7. Gervin

[J_Paco]

Manu was a two-way player; Parker wasn't. Manu made his teammates better; Parker didn't. Manu sacrificed; Tony didn't.

Parker will have better career statistics, more all-star appearances and a Finals MVP to his resume. Manu is the better player based on sentimenality and "advanced statistics," but Tony has him beat in nearly every raw statistical category. You are truly grasping for straws if you think Manu made anyone better. It was Tim Duncan's immense presence and Pop's system that made players "better" not Manu or Tony.

Like I said, they were both equally as important and great. The argument can easily be made why either one was better than the other. That doesn't matter in the long run because both are HOF bound and are champions, except in the minds of "fans" that like to have dick measuring contests.

[SASdynasty!]

1. Duncan
2. Manu
3. D-Rob
4. Kawhi
5. Bowen
6. Parker
7. Gervin
Manu over DRob?
Bowen over Parker & Gervin?

[Spurtacular]

Manu over DRob?
Bowen over Parker & Gervin?

Manu had more impact, imo. I don't have a problem with anyone having D-Rob higher though. To me, they were both top 5 players at their peaks.

Bowen dominated at the defensive end of the court. Parker had some good offensive years; but Bowen it could be argued is the best perimeter defender in NBA history. Parker ringed consistently whereas Gervin was stat stuffing.

[Spurtacular]

Parker will have better career statistics, more all-star appearances and a Finals MVP to his resume. Manu is the better player based on sentimenality and "advanced statistics," but Tony has him beat in nearly every raw statistical category. You are truly grasping for straws if you think Manu made anyone better. It was Tim Duncan's immense presence and Pop's system that made players "better" not Manu or Tony.

Like I said, they were both equally as important and great. The argument can easily be made why either one was better than the other. That doesn't matter in the long run because both are HOF bound and are champions, except in the minds of "fans" that like to have dick measuring contests.

Manu was left off of plenty of all-star teams he deserved to be on when he was sacrificing minutes. It's not like today where the analysis is more comprehensive. There were superficial benchmarks to be hit. Manu make players better b/c they know he'll reward the effort. Tony is an ISO player. And if you need any concrete evidence on who was more impactful, you need look no further than the 03 and 05 Finals. Manu was head and shoulders better than Parker.

[FkLA]

Not a "Tony Parker fan," numb nuts. Just an actually Spurs fan that sees bullshit and calls it.

My point in comparing career statistics is that they prove Jackson was never a "team player." He was always a "me first," ball stopper that was highly, highly inefficient and turnover prone. You know, all the bulshit y'all say Tony is/was while Jackson's hypcorite ass actually is.

Or didn't him wanting more minutes than Manu, Danny and Kawhi while being far worse than all three and being a big distraction in the locker room - so much so that Pop waived him on the last week of the playoffs and he couldn't be signed by any other PO teams - show your dumbass that? Yes, that is the guy who can speak to other player's character on-court.

"Jackson is the ultimate teammate." -Timothy Theodore Duncan

Ill take his word over your 'analysis', Rique fan.

[FkLA]

Parker will have better career statistics, more all-star appearances and a Finals MVP to his resume. Manu is the better player based on sentimenality and "advanced statistics," but Tony has him beat in nearly every raw statistical category. You are truly grasping for straws if you think Manu made anyone better. It was Tim Duncan's immense presence and Pop's system that made players "better" not Manu or Tony.

Like I said, they were both equally as important and great. The argument can easily be made why either one was better than the other. That doesn't matter in the long run because both are HOF bound and are champions, except in the minds of "fans" that like to have dick measuring contests.

Youre a complete moron if you don't think Manus elite playmaking/vision coupled with his unselfishness Nd willingness to almost always make the right basketball play helped him make teammates better.

[Brazil]

That's the same dude who said he was better than green and fucked up the team during his last year with the Spurs ?

[dbestpro]

If you saw James Silas play you most likely would say he was better than Parker. Alvin Robertson was far and away the best defensive PG we ever had, but is always overlooked in these discussions because of his legal troubles.

[FkLA]

That's the same dude who said he was better than green and fucked up the team during his last year with the Spurs ?

The same dude that Timothy Theodore Duncan called the ultimate teammates.

Its hilarious how SJax was one of the most beloved Spurs and everyone has turned against him bc he put their hero Enrique. :lol

[J_Paco]

Youre a complete moron if you don't think Manus elite playmaking/vision coupled with his unselfishness Nd willingness to almost always make the right basketball play helped him make teammates better.

No, just no. Being a great passer and teammate doesn't automatically help you make teammates better. Like I said, Duncan and Popovich's system made role players/journeymen better not Ginobili or Parker. This isn't his national team, the team was never built around his strengths and only bonafide fanboy would make such a silly claim.


"Jackson is the ultimate teammate." -Timothy Theodore Duncan

Ill take his word over your 'analysis', Rique fan.

Sure, let one person's opinion get in the way of facts and actual statistics. Makes sense that you side with Jackson and ride with his "opinion."

Sure, because you know so much about my following of the Spurs and the players to say who I like and don't like. :rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes

Really repping Tony hard with my Tim Duncan avatar and Kawhi Leonard signature.....

[J_Paco]

The same dude that Timothy Theodore Duncan called the ultimate teammates.

Its hilarious how SJax was one of the most beloved Spurs and everyone has turned against him bc he put their hero Enrique. :lol

No, he was once beloved but turned his back on the team in '13 by complaining about playing time, being a distraction and claiming he was better than at least two of Manu, Danny or Kawhi.

He has also shitted on Manu and Tony after his ouster here and mocked the team after losing the Finals to the Heat. He lost a lot good will after how things ended and being a role player on one championship team won't change that.

Not much different than his behavior in Milwaukee, Golden State, New Jersey, Charlotte, etc.

Green, Parker and Ginobili went through a lot more of the "wars" than SJax, so they deserve a lot more of the benefit of the doubt.

Can't wait until he starts speaking sideways about another former teammate and see your reaction.

[daslicer]

The same dude that Timothy Theodore Duncan called the ultimate teammates.

Its hilarious how SJax was one of the most beloved Spurs and everyone has turned against him bc he put their hero Enrique. :lol

Going by your logic we also need to take Jax seriously when he said in an interview with Bill Simmons that Duncan was not better than Kobe but on the same level. To me that was a pretty asinine comment by Jax to say. Also way to go by taking a statement that Duncan said way back in '03 when the Spurs were championship bound and Jax was on his best behavior. I doubt he feels like that today about Jax after what happened in '13.

[J_Paco]

Manu was left off of plenty of all-star teams he deserved to be on when he was sacrificing minutes. It's not like today where the analysis is more comprehensive. There were superficial benchmarks to be hit. Manu make players better b/c they know he'll reward the effort. Tony is an ISO player. And if you need any concrete evidence on who was more impactful, you need look no further than the 03 and 05 Finals. Manu was head and shoulders better than Parker.

Tony has a higher career APG and assist percentage, so that refutes your idea that "Tony doesn't pass." Manu is a creative passer, has better timing (most times although you knew that ill adviced one was coming) and such but that doesn't mean Tony was a black hole. That is only a narrative on these boards.

Manu was 25 and 27 in comparison to Tony who was just 20 and 22. Manu was in his physical and near mental prime during the early title runs, but we'll ignore that to go with your narrative.

And I'm pretty sure that Tony outplayed Manu in the '03 Finals, but I'm too lazy to look up the statistics.

[ElNono]

No, just no. Being a great passer and teammate doesn't automatically help you make teammates better. Like I said, Duncan and Popovich's system made role players/journeymen better not Ginobili or Parker. This isn't his national team, the team was never built around his strengths and bonafide fanboy would make such a silly claim.

Where were Duncan and Pop system when he led Argentina to an historical gold medal? oh wait, they were on one of the teams he beat. When he was an Euroleague champ and MVP? Watching from TV. He always has been a leader, and made his teammates better, and he did it by being humble, not making it about himself, which is absolutely the ultimate compliment. That Argentina team will always be lauded by their teamwork, it was never "built around his strengths", another terrible cop-out. Quoting Kobe on this:"He took on a huge responsibility, and elevated everything there".

Heck, even off the bench with the Spurs, he made absolutely flawed players look good (too long a list: Oberto, RMJ, Blair, Ayres, Neal, Beli, Bonner, Thiago, Patty to an extent...) and he didn't do it going heroball, but actually getting everybody involved and making them feel important. That's the epitome of making teammates better. A lot of those guys left the Spurs and never been anywhere near the same.

He's too old now to be the kind of guy that commands the attention he used to. But he didn't used to use that attention to shower himself with stats, but to actually win, no matter who ended up putting the ball in the basket.

EDIT: This has nothing to do with Tony, who I think also made some of his teammates better. Obviously, he has played with Timmy a lot more minutes, so it's difficult to really appreciate. If anything the argument that it was Tim, not Manu/Tony that made players better, probably affects Tony way more than Manu (not because it's necessarily true, but because he shared a lot more starters minutes with Tim).

[J_Paco]

Going by your logic we also need to take Jax seriously when he said in an interview with Bill Simmons that Duncan was not better than Kobe but on the same level. To me that was a pretty asinine comment by Jax to say. Also way to go by taking a statement that Duncan said way back in '03 when the Spurs were championship bound and Jax was on his best behavior. I doubt he feels like that today about Jax after what happened in '13.

See unlike SJax, Tim is a loyal guy and I don't think he would change his opinion about a former teammate (that he really liked) even today. Probably wouldn't take him over the guys he sweat, cried and bleed with the most (D-Rob, Manu, Tony and Bruce) but after them he's probably still high on the list.

[J_Paco]

Where were Duncan and Pop system when he led Argentina to an historical gold medal? oh wait, they were on one of the teams he beat. When he was an Euroleague champ and MVP? Watching from TV. He always has been a leader, and made his teammates better, and he did it by being humble, not making it about himself, which is absolutely the ultimate compliment. That Argentina team will always be lauded by their teamwork, it was never "built around his strengths", another terrible cop-out. Quoting Kobe on this:"He took on a huge responsibility, and elevated everything there".

Heck, even off the bench with the Spurs, he made absolutely flawed players look good (too long a list: Oberto, RMJ, Blair, Ayres, Neal, Beli, Bonner, Tiago, Patty to an extent...) and he didn't do it going heroball, but actually getting everybody involved and making them feel important. That's the epitome of making teammates better. A lot of those guys left the Spurs and never been anywhere near the same.

He's too old now to be the kind of guy that commands the attention he used to. But he didn't used to use that attention to shower himself with stats, but to actually win, no matter who ended up putting the ball in the basket.

EDIT: This has nothing to do with Tony, who I think also made some of his teammates better. Obviously, he has played with Timmy a lot more minutes, so it's difficult to really appreciate. If anything the argument that it was Tim, not Manu/Tony that made players better, probably affects Tony way more than Manu (not because it's necessarily true, but because he shared a lot more starters minutes with Tim).

I knew a Ginobili fanboy was going to run with the national team stuff. His play for Argentina has no real bearing on his NBA career since his role, status and playing time were entirely different. And then there is the obvious fact that one is a international tournament and the other is his "club" team. Or did winning a gold medal help the Spurs win a regular season game, advance in the playoffs or (not) win the title?

It helped that a lot of those players were either good passers or good shooters, IMO. Those are the qualities that best aided them in fitting with Ginobili and the second unit. You and I have much different ideas of "making teammates better" I believe. I'm speaking in the sense of being the focal point, most dominant/best player and leader of the team while you mean it a sense of culture and intangibles.

I could see how Duncan's presence effected, changed and won games while that stuff Ginobili did was chemistry and locker room stuff, IMO. And claiming he made Ayres "better" is laughable at best when he sucked to begin with. Blair, Fabricio, Tiago, Roger Mason Jr. and Bonner saw just as much (individual) success (if not more) playing along side Duncan and Parker in the starting line up.

Like I said (once again), the team and philosophy were never fully built around the strengths of Parker or Ginobili. They were never a consistent threat like Duncan was - demanding a near constant double team - in the post and he made them and the role players better.

It would be foolish to claim that Chris Bosh, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant (early Laker years) or Klay Thompson makes anyone better, but here we are with Manu Ginobili fans making that claim for him.

Prime Ginobili (and Parker) had everything much easier with Duncan being around and the center of attention.

[ElNono]

I knew a Ginobili fanboy was going to run with the national team stuff. His play for Argentina has no real bearing on his NBA career since his role, status and playing time were entirely different. And then there is the obvious fact that one is a international tournament and the other is his "club" team. Or did winning a gold medal help the Spurs win a regular season game, advance in the playoffs or (not) win the title?

Like I said (once again), the team and philosophy were never fully built around the strengths of Parker or Ginobili. They were never a consistent threat like Duncan was - demanding a near constant double team - in the post and he made them and the role players better.

It would be foolish to claim that Chris Bosh, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant (early Laker years) or Klay Thompson makes anyone better, but here we are with Manu Ginobili fans making that claim for him.

Prime Ginobili (and Parker) had everything much easier with Duncan being around and the center of attention.

I guess, Pop, RC Bufford, multiple Spurs coaches, Duncan, Kobe, Bowen, even Tony himself, etc that has said exactly this stuff are all Manu fanboys too? I mean, that's who you're arguing against... not me. You can go look at that piece by Lowe not a week ago (a lot of which is not necessarily new), find plenty of examples of how he brought plays to make even Tony better (that "Weak fly" play that apparently nobody else can pull off, including the French NT, by Tony's own admission). The part where RC mentions Manu probably has as much to do with the Spurs family philosophy as Tim will probably sting the most to you, but it's ok, just take it all in, and hopefully we won't be reading ridiculous claims here anymore.

You're just going to gloss over and not even discuss the fact that he made a lot of those players I listed literally look like NBA players? I mean, that's convenient. By Pop, Duncan and Tony's own admission, they shifted burdens from Tim to Manu to Tony as time went on. That doesn't diminish Tim, who was rightfully at the top of the hierarchy, but that fact shouldn't also diminish the fact that RC himself said Pop, Tim, Manu and Tony, all 4 of them, basically got together and discussed every team's move, including having final say in a lot of that. Mere role players don't have that kind of power (and that goes both for Manu and Tony).

[J_Paco]

I guess, Pop, RC Bufford, multiple Spurs coaches, Duncan, Kobe, Bowen, even Tony himself, etc that has said exactly this stuff are all Manu fanboys too? I mean, that's who you're arguing against... not me. You can go look at that piece by Lowe not a week ago (a lot of which is not necessarily new), find plenty of examples of how he brought plays to make even Tony better (that "Weak fly" play that apparently nobody else can pull off, including the French NT, by Tony's own admission). The part where RC mentions Manu probably has as much to do with the Spurs family philosophy as Tim will probably sting the most to you, but it's ok, just take it all in, and hopefully we won't be reading ridiculous claims here anymore.

You're just going to gloss over and not even discuss the fact that he made a lot of those players I listed literally look like NBA players? I mean, that's convenient. By Pop, Duncan and Tony's own admission, they shifted burdens from Tim to Manu to Tony as time went on. That doesn't diminish Tim, who was rightfully at the top of the hierarchy, but that fact shouldn't also diminish the fact that RC himself said Pop, Tim, Manu and Tony, all 4 of them, basically got together and discussed every team's move, including having final say in a lot of that. Mere role players don't have that kind of power (and that goes both for Manu and Tony).

I read the piece and was quite well written, but you are really, really heaping too much praise on Parker and Ginobili if you truly believe they were as important or "made teammates better" like Timmy. Ginobili's craftiness and competive spirit are undeniable, but his NBA career (and importance/impact) has not been nearly at the level you believe. And the absolute same goes for Tony Parker as well.

A lot of those things they and you mention are the intangibles and culture of the team. Not the guy that wins
games with his offense, defense and sheer presence on the floor. You know, the stuff that Tim Duncan actually did.

I love Parker and Ginobili and there importance to the team and culture is immeasurable, but neither one made players better over Duncan and "the system," IMO.

[ElNono]

I read the piece and was quite well written, but you are really, really heaping too much praise on Parker and Ginobili if you truly believe they were as important or "made teammates better" like Timmy. Ginobili's craftiness and competive spirit are undeniable, but his NBA career (and importance/impact) has not been nearly at the level you believe. And the absolute same goes for Tony Parker as well.

A lot of those things they and you mention are the intangibles and culture of the team. Not the guy that wins
games with his offense, defense and sheer presence on the floor. You know, the stuff that Tim Duncan actually did.

I love Parker and Ginobili and there importance to the team and culture is immeasurable, but neither one made players better over Duncan and "the system," IMO.

Your claim was that he didn't make teammates better, not that "he made teammates better than Timmy". That's what I took exception with, despite the fact that he's done so in and out of the Spurs (so has Tony, BTW), and when it comes to the Spurs you can find plenty of actual quotes from within the organization and outside of it on how that claim is simply false.

You can certainly build an imaginary scale of "how much better" player X made his teammates, but that's a completely arbitrary scale and different goalpost. Even when it comes to Tim, that has varied wildly over his career, from the constant 4-down, everything flows from Tim offense to what ended up being called the beautiful game.

I'm actually one of the (few, I suppose) people that has a generally pessimistic view of the post-Tim, post-Manu era in San Antonio. I don't think people really understand what those two brought to the table in all sorts of ways, culturally, professionally, matchup-wise, smarts-wise, the whole "making teammates better" aspect, etc. HoFs don't grow on trees.

[dabom]

Your claim was that he didn't make teammates better, not that "he made teammates better than Timmy". That's what I took exception with, despite the fact that he's done so in and out of the Spurs (so has Tony, BTW), and when it comes to the Spurs you can find plenty of actual quotes from within the organization and outside of it on how that claim is simply false.

You can certainly build an imaginary scale of "how much better" player X made his teammates, but that's a completely arbitrary scale and different goalpost. Even when it comes to Tim, that has varied wildly over his career, from the constant 4-down, everything flows from Tim offense to what ended up being called the beautiful game.

I'm actually one of the (few, I suppose) people that has a generally pessimistic view of the post-Tim, post-Manu era in San Antonio. I don't think people really understand what those two brought to the table in all sorts of ways, culturally, professionally, matchup-wise, smarts-wise, the whole "making teammates better" aspect, etc. HoFs don't grow on trees.

I totally agree Manu made players great in his prime, but he is a role player now. Losing him won't be a drop off nowadays. This team goes as far as Pop plays his best players. That's not Tony either. He's dog shit. Another player we could lose and have little to no dropoff.

[ElNono]

I totally agree Manu made players great in his prime, but he is a role player now. Losing him won't be a drop off nowadays. This team goes as far as Pop plays his best players. That's not Tony either. He's dog shit. Another player we could lose and have little to no dropoff.

He's more of a mentor/spiritual leader than even a role player at this point. His $14m deal is a thank you contract, nothing more and nothing less, that doesn't tie up the Spurs financially any other season.

I'm still pessimistic past the post-Tim, post-Manu era, tbh, not that I don't like Kawhi or anything like that, I root for all my Spurs, but there's a lot to be said about chemistry, team culture, etc. The Spurs could get away with not hiring knuckleheads, etc, even if they were talented, because they could always fall back into their HoFs... when that safety-net is not there, and you're not winning, pressure will always mount.

[dabom]

He's more of a mentor/spiritual leader than even a role player at this point. His $14m deal is a thank you contract, nothing more and nothing less, that doesn't tie up the Spurs financially any other season.

I'm still pessimistic past the post-Tim, post-Manu era, tbh, not that I don't like Kawhi or anything like that, I root for all my Spurs, but there's a lot to be said about chemistry, team culture, etc. The Spurs could get away with not hiring knuckleheads, etc, even if they were talented, because they could always fall back into their HoFs... when that safety-net is not there, and you're not winning, pressure will always mount.

We didn't win the past 2 years either. Tony Parker being dog shit never helps. I just expect the Spurs to decrease his role/dependence. We'll actually get further. I hope Porker doesn't waste Manu's twilight year too.

[lilbthebasedgod]

Manu was left off of plenty of all-star teams he deserved to be on when he was sacrificing minutes. It's not like today where the analysis is more comprehensive. There were superficial benchmarks to be hit. Manu make players better b/c they know he'll reward the effort. Tony is an ISO player. And if you need any concrete evidence on who was more impactful, you need look no further than the 03 and 05 Finals. Manu was head and shoulders better than Parker.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I like how this post talks about how contemporary analysis shows how ginobili is better without using any analysis and also its one example of how he was more impactful is a horrible use of statistics (using single points for evidence on a career).

[dabom]

Speaking of Porker playing dog shit in the playoffs. What happens if he does it a turd year in a row? :lol

I mean. Pop always 2 years late with their adjustments tbh..

[HarlemHeat37]

Parker generally seems unlikable, based on most of the shit we have heard about him, but in this case, the messenger is a clown, tbh:lol..

Stephen Jackson has been extremely desperate for attention the past few years..he went from firing shots at ESPN to begging them for a job..not only is he one of the most overrated players on this forum, but he's an attention-starving liar, too..his argument, in this case, doesn't even make sense, as his "facts" don't add up..

[J_Paco]

Your claim was that he didn't make teammates better, not that "he made teammates better than Timmy". That's what I took exception with, despite the fact that he's done so in and out of the Spurs (so has Tony, BTW), and when it comes to the Spurs you can find plenty of actual quotes from within the organization and outside of it on how that claim is simply false.

You can certainly build an imaginary scale of "how much better" player X made his teammates, but that's a completely arbitrary scale and different goalpost. Even when it comes to Tim, that has varied wildly over his career, from the constant 4-down, everything flows from Tim offense to what ended up being called the beautiful game.

I'm actually one of the (few, I suppose) people that has a generally pessimistic view of the post-Tim, post-Manu era in San Antonio. I don't think people really understand what those two brought to the table in all sorts of ways, culturally, professionally, matchup-wise, smarts-wise, the whole "making teammates better" aspect, etc. HoFs don't grow on trees.

Whatever, ElNono. We'll agree to disagree but my line of thinking is more along the lines of how Charles Barkley sees that aspect of the game.

It isn't a "scale" or anything measurable but something only top tier all-time greats accomplished. The Duncans, Jordans, Birds, Johnsons of the NBA not their "sidekicks" so to speak. It isn't meant as a slight on Tony or Manu, but just how I see things.

[dabom]

Whatever, ElNono. We'll agree to disagree but my line of thinking is more along the lines of how Charles Barkley sees that aspect of the game.

It isn't a "scale" or anything measurable but something only top tier all-time greats accomplished. The Duncans, Jordans, Birds, Johnsons of the NBA not their "sidekicks" so to speak. It isn't meant as a slight on Tony or Manu, but just how I see things.

You do know you moved the pole right? You first talked about Manu not making players better then switched to " o well he doesn't do it better than Duncan". like that's when you lost. Stop dude. :lol

[J_Paco]

You do know you moved the pole right? You first talked about Manu not making players better then switched to " o well he doesn't do it better than Duncan". like that's when you lost. Stop dude. :lol

No, my point is that he doesn't because only the elite can. ElNoNo is arguing that his leadership and impact on the culture does help players improve. I disagree, but of course your too stupid to have noticed that.

He is arguing for the intangibles that most great players possess while I'm talking about presence on the floor and dominance.

Timmy was the dominant force control the outcome of games, Manu, David and Tony (plus the role players) succeeeded because all the attention, effort and execution he put out. Not the other way around.

[dabom]

No, my point is that he doesn't do because only the elite can. ElNoNo is arguing that his leadership and impact on the culture does help players improve. I disagree, but of course your too stupid to have noticed that....

Nah bro. 2 people can read what you fucking posted just in this page. Like you're the dumbass here. :lol

[FkLA]

So there aren't different levels when it comes to making teammates better? Either you make them better at the exact same clip as someone who's elite, like Timmy, or you don't make them better at all? :lmao

[dabom]

So there aren't different levels when it comes to making teammates better? Either you make them better at the exact same clip as someone who's elite, like Timmy, or you don't make them better at all? :lmao

It's like the guy is a total dumbass tbh. He said a statement. Then changed his POINT entirely. :lol

[J_Paco]

So there aren't different levels when it comes to making teammates better? Either you make them better at the exact same clip as someone who's elite, like Timmy, or you don't make them better at all? :lmao


Nah bro. 2 people can read what you fucking posted just in this page. Like you're the dumbass here. :lol


You Kiwitards are dense, man. This is the same exact opinion that Charles Barkley holds and has said for the last 15+ years on television.

Of course all players have an effect on the game, but it is a turn of phrase used to assess something that elite do. The very best players not the Scottie Pippen, Manu Ginobili and James Worthy type of HOF'ers.

[dabom]

You Kiwitards are dense, man. This is the same exact opinion that Charles Barkley holds and has said for the last 15+ years on television.

Of course all players have an effect on the game, but it is a turn of phrase used to assess something that elite do. The very best players not the Scottie Pippen, Manu Ginobili and James Worthy type of HOF'ers.
Take the :lma.


No one is taking you serious. Your only reference is Fucking Charles Barkley who people dislike for being a fucking slob and no fucking leader.

The guy who won jack-SHIT. :lmao

[SASdynasty!]

Manu was left off of plenty of all-star teams he deserved to be on when he was sacrificing minutes. It's not like today where the analysis is more comprehensive. There were superficial benchmarks to be hit. Manu make players better b/c they know he'll reward the effort. Tony is an ISO player. And if you need any concrete evidence on who was more impactful, you need look no further than the 03 and 05 Finals. Manu was head and shoulders better than Parker.
I'll give you 2005, but that's it.

2003 NBA Finals:

Parker: 14/4/3 on 39%
Ginobili: 9/5/2 on 35%

2005 NBA Finals:

Parker: 14/3/2 on 46%
Ginobili: 19/6/4 on 49%

2007 NBA Finals:

Parker: 25/5/3 on 57%
Ginobili: 17/6/3 on 37%

2013 NBA Finals:

Parker: 16/6/2 on 41%
Ginobili: 12/4/2 on 43%

2014 NBA Finals:

Parker: 18/5/0 on 48%
Ginobili: 14/4/3 on 50%

4/5 advantage Parker.

[FkLA]

You Kiwitards are dense, man. This is the same exact opinion that Charles Barkley holds and has said for the last 15+ years on television.

Of course all players have an effect on the game, but it is a turn of phrase used to assess something that elite do. The very best players not the Scottie Pippen, Manu Ginobili and James Worthy type of HOF'ers.

WTF does that have to with comparing Rique's impact to Manu's? Why even bring it up if that's what you're referring to? If you want to say neither is on the level of the great Timothy Duncan, then that's fine. That doesn't by any means make Manu's impact negligible. It also doesn't mean that Manu's impact was at the same level as Enrique's--the eyeball test and the metrics show him with a considerable edge.

[RD2191]

J Paco might actually make me vote for Trump Tbh

[DMC]

lol a 15 year nationalism battle between the Parkerstans and the Ginobilians.

my countryman

no, mine

no, mine..

Then some St Croix homey comes in ... "no... mine".

crickets....

[Spurtacular]

Tony has a higher career APG and assist percentage, so that refutes your idea that "Tony doesn't pass." Manu is a creative passer, has better timing (most times although you knew that ill adviced one was coming) and such but that doesn't mean Tony was a black hole. That is only a narrative on these boards.

Manu was 25 and 27 in comparison to Tony who was just 20 and 22. Manu was in his physical and near mental prime during the early title runs, but we'll ignore that to go with your narrative.

And I'm pretty sure that Tony outplayed Manu in the '03 Finals, but I'm too lazy to look up the statistics.

Dribble... dribble... dribble... A few bailout baskets by teammates don't make him a better passer/play maker.

[ElNono]

No, my point is that he doesn't because only the elite can. ElNoNo is arguing that his leadership and impact on the culture does help players improve. I disagree, but of course your too stupid to have noticed that.

He is arguing for the intangibles that most great players possess while I'm talking about presence on the floor and dominance.

Timmy was the dominant force control the outcome of games, Manu, David and Tony (plus the role players) succeeeded because all the attention, effort and execution he put out. Not the other way around.

FWIW, I did argue about making actual players on the court much better, gave examples too, but you completely skipped over the point with zero counter arguments to that. I have to assume you really think turning a bunch of league nobodies into the best bench in the NBA year-in and year-out it's all Pop's system or Duncan influence's gazing from the bench. You probably think the fact that Manu got old and at the same time the bench went to shit is probably entirely coincidental too. :rolleyes

But yeah, I'm fine to disagree on this, tbh

[ElNono]

:lol And Charles Barkley is a great entertainer but knows absolutely zero about the game. He's called the Spurs done for years on end, and continually makes absolutely terrible predictions based on the fact that he even admitted he only watches the games he telecasts. Now Kenny, maybe even Magic Johnson, those guys actually do know what they're talking about.

[Joseph Kony]

You Kiwitards are dense, man. This is the same exact opinion that Charles Barkley holds and has said for the last 15+ years on television.

Of course all players have an effect on the game, but it is a turn of phrase used to assess something that elite do. The very best players not the Scottie Pippen, Manu Ginobili and James Worthy type of HOF'ers.

Not commenting on your actual stance here just pointing out that this is a terrible point to make :lol

[Kawhitstorm]

4. Tony ( better career numbers than Manu)
5. Manu


Dumbass, having better RAW number doesn't mean shyt otherwise you can argue Jason Terry is better than Jason Kidd: http://bkref.com/tiny/RH12T :rolleyes

Manu has a HIGHER postseason win-share than Porker despite Porker playing almost 2K LESS minutes::lol http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=parketo01&y1=2016&y2=2016&p2=ginobma01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=#playoffs_advanced::21

Manu is only 5 REGULAR season win-shares behind Porker despite playing 10K LESS minutes::wow http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=parketo01&y1=2016&y2=2016&p2=ginobma01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=#advanced::21

Manu has BETTER per 36 numbers too: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=parketo01&y1=2016&y2=2016&p2=ginobma01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=#per_minute::none

Basically, Manu blows Porker away in EVERY advanced metric including true-shooting percentage (Porker's claim to fame is shooting 50% on high percentage shots::lol) so unless you're living in the 1980s Manu is the superior.:toast

[Play Boban]

Leave it to Tony creepers to turn this into a Manu thread.

[Kawhitstorm]

Going by your logic we also need to take Jax seriously when he said in an interview with Bill Simmons that Duncan was not better than Kobe but on the same level.

That's a SUBJECTIVE opinion; airing out dirty laundry is just reporting.

[J_Paco]

Not commenting on your actual stance here just pointing out that this is a terrible point to make :lol

Hey, he is a HOF'er and has a lot more credibility than anyone on this board. Not saying that the opinion or argument doesn't have flaws, but that only the truly historically great players can "make players better" like Timmy, Michael, Ervin, Larry and LeBron.

Not second fiddle guys that played great because a lot less pressure was on them. No one really blames Manu for all the games he lost (IMHO), but Timmy has definitely felt the burden of losing in '01, '02, '04, 06 and '13.. He was the catalyst for all the winning and greatness throughout that time period not anyone else.

Doesn't mean that Ginobili was irrelevant, but that he never, ever effected the outcome of a game or elevated the play of his teammates like Tim Duncan (IMHO). Basically, he never elevated his teammates play with his sheet presence and all around greatness.

Duncan did that 5 times last time checked.......

[J_Paco]

You do know you moved the pole right? You first talked about Manu not making players better then switched to " o well he doesn't do it better than Duncan". like that's when you lost. Stop dude. :lol


So there aren't different levels when it comes to making teammates better? Either you make them better at the exact same clip as someone who's elite, like Timmy, or you don't make them better at all? :lmao


WTF does that have to with comparing Rique's impact to Manu's? Why even bring it up if that's what you're referring to? If you want to say neither is on the level of the great Timothy Duncan, then that's fine. That doesn't by any means make Manu's impact negligible. It also doesn't mean that Manu's impact was at the same level as Enrique's--the eyeball test and the metrics show him with a considerable edge.


Dribble... dribble... dribble... A few bailout baskets by teammates don't make him a better passer/play maker.

Three imbeciles whose opinions I value least.

1. Never "moved the goals posts." My opinion is that Duncan, who is an all-time top 5 great, made every player around him much better than they were. The players also benefited from a coach that was willing to make changes when needed and was never worried about player's egos.

In the long run though, Duncan was the catalyst and his mere presence made things easy for everyone else. Which in turn made it easier for lesser players to play at their very best. Not Ginobili, Manu or Robinson.....

2. Yep, the offense and defense were definitely geared toward Manu and his strengths......

He sure did win all those Finals MVP's, league MVP's, all-star appearances and All-NBA accolades throughout his career. He sure carried the Spurs for 15 years with his great two-way and elite level play.


3. Neither player's "impact" is really worth arguing since they are both a by product of Timmy and his greatness. Tony has his good/great moments and so did Manu, but wouldn't have happened without Timmy being an absolute beast. He carried them and the team through the good and bad moments. He was the catalyst and made everyone around him much, much better players. Not Ginobili, not Parker, not Robinson or anyone.....


FWIW, I did argue about making actual players on the court much better, gave examples too, but you completely skipped over the point with zero counter arguments to that. I have to assume you really think turning a bunch of league nobodies into the best bench in the NBA year-in and year-out it's all Pop's system or Duncan influence's gazing from the bench.

I clearly stated that those players (Bonner, Splitter, Mason Jr., Blair, etc.) played well (if not better) in the starting line up with Duncan and Parker. The difference wasn't fucking Manu Ginobili, but that Pop was able to hide their wealnesses. Many of them were exposed once the playoffs came (including Belinelli) and they had to give more in output. Or do you really want to argue that these level of players had a long shelf or Manu could carry them to great heights alone.

LMAO

I let you idiots get back to your regularly scheduled stupidity. "Porker sucks and needs to die!"

"Kawhi is the greatest SF ever and better than LeBron, Scottie and Larry."

"Manu is the best. He never fucked up in his career, is way better than Porker and he is as important as TOSB Duncan."

"Fuck Pop, he don't give the ball to Kawhi and Manu enough. Too much Porker, Softridge and TOSB Duncan, man."

"Duh......."

Did I miss anything?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

And to my main point before this thread was derailed by the Manu apologists, Parker maybe a shitty person but Stephen Jackson should never be the voice for your argument. He was more selfish, arrogant and mediocre throughout his carrer than Tony ever was.

He burned bridges, shit on former teammates (Manu, Tony and Metta) and was eventually a cancer in every city he played in.

I loved him in his short time in San Antonio, yet that doesn't change anything about him as a player.

[Sean Cagney]

Going by your logic we also need to take Jax seriously when he said in an interview with Bill Simmons that Duncan was not better than Kobe but on the same level. To me that was a pretty asinine comment by Jax to say. Also way to go by taking a statement that Duncan said way back in '03 when the Spurs were championship bound and Jax was on his best behavior. I doubt he feels like that today about Jax after what happened in '13.

I actually think they are still friends today if I am correct? They talk, I know that much.

[John Petrucci]

Manu has BETTER per 36 numbers too: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=parketo01&y1=2016&y2=2016&p2=ginobma01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=#per_minute::none



Funny those per 36 numbers kinda debunk the myth of who the more willing passer was throughout their careers. Obviously we knew Parker was a more efficient passer, so the AST isn't too surprising. 1.2 assists ahead of Manu with and still less turnovers. Impressive :wow

[Snaq O'Meal]

Dumbass, having better RAW number doesn't mean shyt otherwise you can argue Jason Terry is better than Jason Kidd: http://bkref.com/tiny/RH12T :rolleyes

Manu has a HIGHER postseason win-share than Porker despite Porker playing almost 2K LESS minutes::lol http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=parketo01&y1=2016&y2=2016&p2=ginobma01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=#playoffs_advanced::21

Manu is only 5 REGULAR season win-shares behind Porker despite playing 10K LESS minutes::wow http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=parketo01&y1=2016&y2=2016&p2=ginobma01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=#advanced::21

Manu has BETTER per 36 numbers too: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=parketo01&y1=2016&y2=2016&p2=ginobma01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=#per_minute::none

Basically, Manu blows Porker away in EVERY advanced metric including true-shooting percentage (Porker's claim to fame is shooting 50% on high percentage shots::lol) so unless you're living in the 1980s Manu is the superior.:toast

Those BPM numbers... yikes!!

[Brazil]

The same dude that Timothy Theodore Duncan called the ultimate teammates.

Its hilarious how SJax was one of the most beloved Spurs and everyone has turned against him bc he put their hero Enrique. :lol


:lol yeah he said that it was in 2003. Since then Jax who call Parker a hero baller spent rest of his career being a loser hero balling worst than Kobe, signed a deal with the Spurs, said he was better than Manu and Green and put the mess in the team with Pop being obliged to kick his ass out.... One of the most beloved Spurs... hilarious... if you are a team fan you say fuck him for what he has done during his last tenure with the Spurs

but you are familiar to suck any dick who say something bad about Parker... not that surprising

[SASdynasty!]

Funny those per 36 numbers kinda debunk the myth of who the more willing passer was throughout their careers. Obviously we knew Parker was a more efficient passer, so the AST isn't too surprising. 1.2 assists ahead of Manu with and still less turnovers. Impressive :wow
Exactly...even on a per-minute basis Parker was a better passer than Manu, especially in the playoffs.

Casual fans still conflating the flashy, turnover-prone passing of Manu to the efficient, scoring passing of Parker. Smh.

[Play Boban]

Funny those per 36 numbers kinda debunk the myth of who the more willing passer was throughout their careers. Obviously we knew Parker was a more efficient passer, so the AST isn't too surprising. 1.2 assists ahead of Manu with and still less turnovers. Impressive :wow

Parker is a point guard. Of course he has more assists given that he has the ball in his hands more.

[Joseph Kony]

Enrique aside, its weird how this forum romanticizes the history of Stephen Jackson on the Spurs :lol dude had a good year in our 2003 title run and immediately dipped because of his ego, spent years doing jack shit, came back for a season and did solid in the postseason (although no one points out he was essentially invisible after the first half in Game 6) and the next year he was bitching and moaning and Pop kicked his ass out. he's essentially a more successful Gary Neal spurs-wise yet people act like he's some legendary Spur :lol

Enrique is a selfish fatass and shitty teammate and Stephen Jackson is a butthurt faggot trying to stay relevant. IMO

[Brazil]

Parker generally seems unlikable, based on most of the shit we have heard about him, but in this case, the messenger is a clown, tbh:lol..

Stephen Jackson has been extremely desperate for attention the past few years..he went from firing shots at ESPN to begging them for a job..not only is he one of the most overrated players on this forum, but he's an attention-starving liar, too..his argument, in this case, doesn't even make sense, as his "facts" don't add up..

Strangely enough (not) nobody sucked Jax dick saying he is telling the truth when he said Kobe was as good as Duncan if not better. His hero ball talk is hilarious knowing he has been during prime years one of most inefficient hero ballers of the league, same goes with the ego talk... only Spurs player who because of his ego could not go along with the team and pop.

I agree Jax is a freaking clown

[Brazil]

and the Manu / Parker never ending ping pong is getting tiresome even for ST standard tbh...

[From Downtown]

Exactly...even on a per-minute basis Parker was a better passer than Manu, especially in the playoffs.

Casual fans still conflating the flashy, turnover-prone passing of Manu to the efficient, scoring passing of Parker. Smh.

He's a PG?
Manu has better vision, he's more flashy and is a great floor general, the only downside to his passing game is that he attempts a pass even when there's a 1% chance it's not gonna be a turnover (and that's how his amazing passes happen)
Parker plays more within the system, his p'n'r with Timmy used to be great as well as his drive-and-kick game, and that's not a knock on him in any way, he clearly was the best fit for the Spurs starting unit, he's been our starting PG since 2001 for a reason

[Kawhitstorm]

:lol yeah he said that it was in 2003. Since then Jax who call Parker a hero baller spent rest of his career being a loser hero balling worst than Kobe, signed a deal with the Spurs, said he was better than Manu and Green and put the mess in the team with Pop being obliged to kick his ass out.... One of the most beloved Spurs... hilarious... if you are a team fan you say fuck him for what he has done during his last tenure with the Spurs


Tim wouldn't have beaten the Phil Jackson's Shaq/Kirby Lakers without Jack as proven in 2001, 2002, 2004.:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

Funny those per 36 numbers kinda debunk the myth of who the more willing passer was throughout their careers. Obviously we knew Parker was a more efficient passer, so the AST isn't too surprising. 1.2 assists ahead of Manu with and still less turnovers. Impressive :wow

Dumbass, Manu was asked to SCORE with the 2nd unit b/c he didn't have Tim on the floor. :rolleyes

Porker got 50% of his CAREER assists playing PnR w/ Tim.:wakeup

[Brazil]

Porker got 50% of his CAREER assists playing PnR w/ Tim.:wakeup

:lol is that a bad thing tbh ? feeding as fuck a top 5 all time great as much as possible ?

[Kawhitstorm]

:lol is that a bad thing tbh ? feeding as fuck a top 5 all time great as much as possible ?

Avery Johnson had a better assist-per-game average than Porker feeding Admrial.:lol

[Phenomanul]

:lol is that a bad thing tbh ? feeding as fuck a top 5 all time great as much as possible ?

No... it's not a bad thing.... it does show where the alleged difference in "willingness to pass" stems from. It's all about context.

[keeferob25]

Dumbass, Manu was asked to SCORE with the 2nd unit b/c he didn't have Tim on the floor. :rolleyes

Porker got 50% of his CAREER assists playing PnR w/ Tim.:wakeup

You're being far too generous to parker lol. That fucker's sorry vision didn't extend one millimeter beyond Duncan lol. People bitching about Duncan still having had too many useless ill-advised possessions the last 3 years had no one to blame but Parker keeping up with pure habit and unable to adjust until slightly this past year.

[Brazil]

Avery Johnson had a better assist-per-game average than Porker feeding Admrial.:lol

:lol what's AJ and DR have to do with that discussion ? Avery Johnson > Tony Parker ?

[Brazil]

You're being far too generous to parker lol. That fucker's sorry vision didn't extend one millimeter beyond Duncan lol. People bitching about Duncan still having had too many useless ill-advised possessions the last 3 years had no one to blame but Parker keeping up with pure habit and unable to adjust until slightly this past year.

oh a new troll account... cute

[keeferob25]

oh a new troll account... cute

ouch...my feelings

[Sean Cagney]

Avery Johnson had a better assist-per-game average than Porker feeding Admrial.:lol
Avery Johnson was pretty bad IMO man :lol I still wonder how he was a starting PG on a title team? Then again with Admiral and Tim on the team in their primes it's not hard to pass them the ball and hit a wiiidddee open J at times.

[Kawhitstorm]

:lol what's AJ and DR have to do with that discussion ? Avery Johnson > Tony Parker ?

Based on your logic Avery is a better point guard than Porker.:lol

[From Downtown]

Avery Johnson was pretty bad IMO man :lol I still wonder how he was a starting PG on a title team? Then again with Admiral and Tim on the team in their primes it's not hard to pass them the ball and hit a wiiidddee open J at times.
In that "Championship revealed" Dvd Tony said that when he came over Pop wanted him to be like AJ, and in his head he was thinking "I don't wanna be Avery Johnson, I wanna be better than that" :lol

[Sean Cagney]

In that "Championship revealed" Dvd Tony said that when he came over Pop wanted him to be like AJ, and in his head he was thinking "I don't wanna be Avery Johnson, I wanna be better than that" :lol

I would hope so tbh :lol. Avery was a journeyman and stuck in SA, any PG would have won with that team tbh. I remember Stoudamire saying one time they won't win a title with Avery at PG, well they did and the team was pretty much the reason around him. He did hit his open shots for that playoff run though I will give him that, did his job of pass and hit wide open 12-15 footers well.

[cd98]

Damn this has been a long summer. Almost have to avoid this site until October.

[Kawhitstorm]

Avery Johnson was pretty bad IMO man :lol I still wonder how he was a starting PG on a title team? Then again with Admiral and Tim on the team in their primes it's not hard to pass them the ball and hit a wiiidddee open J at times.

Avery isn't as bad as folks make him out to be, he was basically a steady version of Speedy Claxton. He stepped up in the postseason unlike Porker.:rolleyes

He outplayed Kidd in '98 during Tim's first postseason series: http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-western-conference-first-round-spurs-vs-suns.html

He also neutralized Stockton in the 2nd Rd: http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-western-conference-semifinals-spurs-vs-jazz.html
....too bad Admiral choked against Greg Foster.:wakeup

Avery also destroyed Kenny Smith in '95, too bad Hakeem shook MVP Admiral: http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1995-nba-western-conference-finals-rockets-vs-spurs.html

[J_Paco]

Tim wouldn't have beaten the Phil Jackson's Shaq/Kirby Lakers without Jack as proven in 2001, 2002, 2004.:lol

You truly are stupid, man. Jackson sure didn't win anything without Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker and Greg Popovich.

Jackson was a bit player nothing more, nothing less....

Or did you forget about the 3 championships they won after he left?

And if he was so concerned with winning more championships, he would have stayed BOTH TIMES in SA and done exactly that. Instead, he looked out for himself (nothing wrong with getting paid, TBH), then came back had a solid playoff while the next season he again burned bridges and was dumped by Pop.


You're being far too generous to parker lol. That fucker's sorry vision didn't extend one millimeter beyond Duncan lol. People bitching about Duncan still having had too many useless ill-advised possessions the last 3 years had no one to blame but Parker keeping up with pure habit and unable to adjust until slightly this past year.

Do you really think a 15 year starting PG would be able to play as long as Tony has with a "sorry ass court vision?"

I agree that Manu had the better vision and creativity, but you are really underselling Parker's ability to see the floor.

He isn't on Patty Mills' level which is far worse, IMO.

[Brazil]

Based on your logic Avery is a better point guard than Porker.:lol

:lol what logic? I simply commented your post about P&R Duncan / Parker that you presented as a bad thing... Idaf at the whole argument about per 36 with Manu and Parker fans going at it... as I said I am growing tired of that endless ping pong... I won't convince you that Parker is not a piece of trash and you won't convince he is... pointless

[Brazil]

ouch...my feelings

:cry

[Kawhitstorm]

You truly are stupid, man. Jackson sure didn't win anything without Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker and Greg Popovich.

Jackson was a bit player nothing more, nothing less....

Or did you forget about the 3 championships they won after he left?

You mean AFTER the Phil/Kirby/Snack Lakers broke up?:wakeup


And if he was so concerned with winning more championships, he would have stayed BOTH TIMES in SA and done exactly that. Instead, he looked out for himself (nothing wrong with getting paid, TBH), then came back had a solid playoff while the next season he again burned bridges and was dumped by Pop.

Why in the hell would he want to play w/ a an ass-hole point guard when he's getting paid peanuts? All he asked was to be compensated instead of getting low-balled & let's just say RC dropped the ball by choosing to sign Hedo.:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

:lol what logic? I simply commented your post about P&R Duncan / Parker that you presented as a bad thing... Idaf at the whole argument about per 36 with Manu and Parker fans going at it... as I said I am growing tired of that endless ping pong... I won't convince you that Parker is not a piece of trash and you won't convince he is... pointless

Nobody said Porker in his PRIME was trash but the FACT is that Manu is a BETTER player.

[dabom]

Manu is clearly superior. No shame in that.

[apalisoc_9]

Manu is clearly superior. No shame in that.

[SASdynasty!]

You're being far too generous to parker lol. That fucker's sorry vision didn't extend one millimeter beyond Duncan lol. People bitching about Duncan still having had too many useless ill-advised possessions the last 3 years had no one to blame but Parker keeping up with pure habit and unable to adjust until slightly this past year.
Lol, Parker still had the best court vision on the Spurs. Who else could have made the kick-out pass to LMA for a 3 at the end of the game against OKC this year? No one, not even Manu.

[J_Paco]

You mean AFTER the Phil/Kirby/Snack Lakers broke up?:wakeup



Why in the hell would he want to play w/ a an ass-hole point guard when he's getting paid peanuts? All he asked was to be compensated instead of getting low-balled & let's just say RC dropped the ball by choosing to sign Hedo.:lol

Who gives a fuck about just the LAL, the remaining (better) players stayed and won championships. They even dropped him after losing to OKC and went on to back-to-back Finals appearances.

Getting millions of dollars to start and win championships is getting "paid peanuts?" Man, you're dumb as fuck. He chose to bail on the defending champion for selfish reasons, got paid and never saw the same level of success.

Yet, now he shits on modern players for "chasing the money," being "selfish" and playing for themselves. That is practically all he did throughout most of his NBA career, dumb ass!

Ironic that you're a supposed Kawhi fan, yet you are here defending a guy that is his complete antithesis.

[Clipper Nation]

J Paco might actually make me vote for Trump Tbh
Don't forget, he's going to deport LkrFan too. I'm sure Trump has your vote on lock now. :downspin:

[LkrFan]

Don't forget, he's going to deport LkrFan too. I'm sure Trump has your vote on lock now. :downspin:

:lol

[Play Boban]

Enrique aside, its weird how this forum romanticizes the history of Stephen Jackson on the Spurs :lol dude had a good year in our 2003 title run and immediately dipped because of his ego, spent years doing jack shit, came back for a season and did solid in the postseason (although no one points out he was essentially invisible after the first half in Game 6) and the next year he was bitching and moaning and Pop kicked his ass out. he's essentially a more successful Gary Neal spurs-wise yet people act like he's some legendary Spur :lol

Enrique is a selfish fatass and shitty teammate and Stephen Jackson is a butthurt faggot trying to stay relevant. IMO

Truth bombs...

[Play Boban]

Manu is clearly superior. No shame in that.

Parker couldn't even hold Avery Johnson's water. Hell, he couldn't hold Speedy Claxton's!!!

[SASdynasty!]

Parker couldn't even hold Avery Johnson's water. Hell, he couldn't hold Speedy Claxton's!!!
Haha Avery Johnson...you mean the journeyman that played for like 10 teams and averaged 8 PPG for his career? Hahaha. Parker will probably average more than that in his 20th season.

Or Speedy Claxton, the journeyman that somehow played for 6 teams in 7 illustrious seasons in the NBA and averaged 9 PPG?

If you combine those 2 guys, you get Parker's career average at 17 PPG. Cool.

[Kawhitstorm]

Who gives a fuck about just the LAL, the remaining (better) players stayed and won championships.

You know who the Spurs could have used in '04 when Hedo was choking & in '06 when Dirk was torching Finely/Bowen? Action Jackson.:lol Spurs would have 3-peated ('05-'07) if Jack was on the roster & the Fisher 0.4 shyt would have never happened.


They even dropped him after losing to OKC and went on to back-to-back Finals appearances.

Jack was washed up & an expiring contract in 2013 so that's irrelevant.


Getting millions of dollars to start and win championships is getting "paid peanuts?" Man, you're dumb as fuck. He chose to bail on the defending champion for selfish reasons, got paid and never saw the same level of success.

Yet, now he shits on modern players for "chasing the money," being "selfish" and playing for themselves. That is practically all he did throughout most of his NBA career, dumb ass!

Dumbass, do you know what they offered him? 3yr/10 mill when Malik Rose got 6yr/42 mill the previous summer.:lmao

Jack gambled on himself & eventually got PAID what he DESERVED!

[J_Paco]

You know who the Spurs could have used in '04 when Hedo was choking & in '06 when Dirk was torching Finely/Bowen? Action Jackson.:lol Spurs would have 3-peated ('05-'07) if Jack was on the roster & the Fisher 0.4 shyt would have never happened.



Jack was washed up & an expiring contract in 2013 so that's irrelevant.



Dumbass, do you know what they offered him? 3yr/10 mill when Malik Rose got 6yr/42 mill the previous summer.:lmao

Jack gambled on himself & eventually got PAID what he DESERVED!

1. Hypothetical horseshit. Keep living in the world of "what if's" while I'll enjoy the three titles the Big 3 won together for the Spurs. Fuck Jackson's greedy ass and his bank account.

If Fisher hadn' made that shot, if Manu hadn't fouled Dirk, if Kawhi/Manu makes their free throws, if Ray Allen misses his three point attempt......

Anyone can play the "if" game, dumbass...

2. It isn't "irrelevant." He was big for them in '13 but came back in poor shape (really showing he's dedicated to the team) for the following season. He played poorly, complained about his role and was a distraction for the team. So, right before the playoffs start Pop canned him to and the team was BETTER WITHOUT HIM.

3. For the last time, I had no problem with him getting paid. But, he iis a huge HYPOCRITE because he has bashed modern players for chasing money over winning. He did the exact same thing during his playing career.

Who gives a fuck how much the Spurs offered him. Is it your fucking bank account or something? He wss offered what they could afford under the CBA. And he was an unproven commodity that needed to go put up "good" numbers on a shitty team. The Spurs were smart to offer him a lower deal and he was smart to refuse while moving on.

Here stupid (reposted): http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-self-aware-stephen-jackson-rips-players-who-choose-money-over-winning-173851517.html


“There’s a lot of guys in the NBA right now that are making money but they really don’t care if they win or lose as long as they are getting the paycheck and I’ve never been like that.

“That’s the sad part of the NBA right now, that there are some players that are making a lot of money but they don’t really care about winning games and bringing the championship or a winning season to the organization, and that’s what the fans are complaining about. And that’s why a lot of fans want me back in the game. Because they know I appreciate the game, I’m not just there to get a paycheck.”

Complete lies and bullshit...

What he did himself:

In 2002-03 Stephen Jackson played for the San Antonio Spurs. He started 58 games during the regular season and all 24 of its playoff games ahead of rookie Manu Ginobili (still nursing an ankle injury from the World Championships the summer before), averaging 12.8 points per game in the postseason. He was absolutely key in the team’s eventual run to the title, notching 17 points in the team’s deciding Game 6 Finals win over the New Jersey Nets.
In the offseason, he signed a two-year deal with a player option for the second year with the Atlanta Hawks, a team that missed the playoffs the year before and fired its coach (Lon Kruger) 37 games into the season.

and sign a major deal the next summer, after the Hawks won just 28 games and fielded 23 total players in 2003-04, but ramp up his value as a major scoring threat on a terrible team. With the plan successfully executed, prior to 2004-05 Jackson signed a six-year, $40 million deal with the Atlanta Hawks and was immediately shipped to the Indiana Pacers. The Spurs went on to win the title that year.

Jackson used his short time with Atlanta to load up his resume in ways that went beyond “championship role player.” He finished second on the team with 18.1 points per game, and parlayed that into a hefty contract (for its time). It’s true the Spurs were looking to clear cap space in the summer of 2003, but Jackson certainly could have stuck in San Antonio (the defending champs) for what he ended up making during his lone, shot-happy season in Atlanta (the minimum of $1 million).
Instead, he chose to leave a champion to go to a terrible team in order to loft enough shots to secure a big pay day. Good for him, we’d say, if he weren’t out here 13 years later criticizing unnamed players for doing the same thing.

H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E = Stephen Jackson

This lying ass nigga is y'all character witness, though.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

3. For the last time, I had no problem with him getting paid. But, he iis a huge HYPOCRITE because he has bashed modern players for chasing money over winning. He did the exact same thing during his playing career

Yeah, he should play for 3 mill when bums like Malik Rose & Biedrins are making 40-50 mill.:lmao

Did anybody call out Ariza when he left the Lakers in '08 b/c "he wanted to expand his role"?:lol


Who gives a fuck how much the Spurs offered him. Is it your fucking bank account or something? He wss offered what they could afford under the CBA. And he was an unproven commodity that needed to go put up "good" numbers on a shitty team. The Spurs were smart to offer him a lower deal and he was smart to refuse while moving on

You do understand RC gave Rose/Dick Jefferson 40 mill contracts & had to give up 1st rd picks to get ride of 'em but couldn't even offer Jack a 20 mill contract. Those two 1st rd picks ended up being David Lee/Ezeli.:rolleyes

[Sean Cagney]

Avery isn't as bad as folks make him out to be, he was basically a steady version of Speedy Claxton. He stepped up in the postseason unlike Porker.:rolleyes

He outplayed Kidd in '98 during Tim's first postseason series: http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-western-conference-first-round-spurs-vs-suns.html

He also neutralized Stockton in the 2nd Rd: http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-western-conference-semifinals-spurs-vs-jazz.html
....too bad Admiral choked against Greg Foster.:wakeup

Avery also destroyed Kenny Smith in '95, too bad Hakeem shook MVP Admiral: http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1995-nba-western-conference-finals-rockets-vs-spurs.htmlAvery had a decent post season in 99 I will give him that, infact his jumpers he was getting mid range he hit at a high clip. Parker had a good playoff run before as well but I will save that for another day, he has had his bad ones as well.

Avery did better than I thought though in those series you mentioned! Utah used to always get us man, for years on end they would knock the Spurs out of the playoffs. I see Avery was a little better than I thought though some series, then again I can put up a few series where Parker destroyed some folks as well through the years, at 19 he played head on GP in the Sonics series and held his own (Gary's dad even clowned him on it to motivate him). Parker would always head up with Nash too, most of the time got the better of him in those series but we know Nash plays no D so...... Billups, Kidd and a few others whipped Parker when he played them head on, he was young as hell in the 03 finals so I expected it though.

Parker couldn't even hold Avery Johnson's water.

Said nobody ever being serious...... Ask any coach, player or fan who they take 10 times out of ten, you know.......

Avery still was an average player with his body of work, not as bad as I remembered obviously but I remember my friend calling him a bum all the time to me during the 99 run because dude hated him lol. I will take Tony any day over him, times ten. I know you would not :lol

[J_Paco]

Yeah, he should play for 3 mill when bums like Malik Rose & Biedrins are making 40-50 mill.:lmao

Did anybody call out Ariza when he left the Lakers in '08 b/c "he wanted to expand his role"?:lol



You do understand RC gave Rose/Dick Jefferson 40 mill contracts & had to give up 1st rd picks to get ride of 'em but couldn't even offer Jack a 20 mill contract. Those two 1st rd picks ended up being David Lee/Ezeli.:rolleyes


Good Lord, there is so much stupidity and faulty logic in your post that I don't want to even address it all.


1. Needless to say, has Ariza made himself look like a complete hypocrite/liar by bashing players for going after the money over winning? The short answer is no.

Nice job trying to deflect, though.


The market is going to dictate how much they earn, stupid ass. He wasn't offered anything above the Spurs offer because he hadn't done shit of value. He had to go play on an absolutely terrible team to help increase his value. Good for him. He never won anything or did anything of merit except an upset win with 07 Warriors.

He soon fucked that situation up just like every where else, although I'm not surprised.

2. What the fuck does any of that have to do with Jackson's situation in San Antonio in '03? Absolutely nothing at all.

R.C. has given goo value contracts and bad contracts just like every GM in every professional league. He offered Jackson what he believed his market value was and Jackson didn't accept. Instead, choosing to play on a bad team and go after a huge payday over winning championships. Which are two things he claims he never did.

See stupid, you are trying in vein to rationalize his false narrative with what actually happened. Maybe in your land "what if's" and make believe that'll fly, but I'm going to call bullshit when I see it.

Good try though.....

[SASdynasty!]

If a player like Jackson wants to "get paid," there is "nothing wrong with it" outside of it showing you value money over winning. It's an indictment on his lack of loyalty and his greediness and for some (like him) it ends up coming back to bite them. With Jackson we may have won more chips and may have won less. He might have shot us out of G5 or G7 against Detroit, who knows? It's all hypothetical at this point. But what we do know is that he was a player with the potential to get hot. That is a great fit as a role-player for a team that has heavy lifters like the big 3. That's why I always wanted to keep him, because he was an ideal fit for the system. But apparently he caused too much damage in the locker room for it to be worth it for Pop. But, yah, there was no way Jackson's streaky shooting was going to lead a team to a legitimate playoff run.

[Kawhitstorm]

The market is going to dictate how much they earn, stupid ass. He wasn't offered anything above the Spurs offer because he hadn't done shit of value. He had to go play on an absolutely terrible team to help increase his value. Good for him. He never won anything or did anything of merit except an upset win with 07 Warriors.

:lmao

Dumbass, his agent fucked up putting his eggs in one basket & not talking to other teams while he was negotiation w/ cheap ass RC.:lol By the time he turned down the Spurs offer teams that needed a starting wing had used up their cap space. (Spurs had his Bird rights so they could have gone over the cap & offered him as much as they WANTED)


R.C. has given goo value contracts and bad contracts just like every GM in every professional league. He offered Jackson what he believed his market value was and Jackson didn't accept. Instead, choosing to play on a bad team and go after a huge payday over winning championships. Which are two things he claims he never did.

Dumbass, you're acting like he turned down a 70 million contract like Harrison Barnes. Dude got offered 1/4 of what Malik Rose got as a backup PF.:lol


See stupid, you are trying in vein to rationalize his false narrative with what actually happened. Maybe in your land "what if's" and make believe that'll fly, but I'm going to call bullshit when I see it.


No need of "what if's", he helped the Spurs in 2007 by knocking out their nemesis: Dirk & the Mavs.:toast

[TD 21]

LMAO

I let you idiots get back to your regularly scheduled stupidity. "Porker sucks and needs to die!"

"Kawhi is the greatest SF ever and better than LeBron, Scottie and Larry."

"Manu is the best. He never fucked up in his career, is way better than Porker and he is as important as TOSB Duncan."

"Fuck Pop, he don't give the ball to Kawhi and Manu enough. Too much Porker, Softridge and TOSB Duncan, man."

"Duh......."

Did I miss anything?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

And to my main point before this thread was derailed by the Manu apologists, Parker maybe a shitty person but Stephen Jackson should never be the voice for your argument. He was more selfish, arrogant and mediocre throughout his carrer than Tony ever was.

He burned bridges, shit on former teammates (Manu, Tony and Metta) and was eventually a cancer in every city he played in.

:lol :tu

[gambit1990]

more from jackson:
https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmnba/former-spurs-gf-stephen-jackson-didnt-like-tony-parkers-mindset-during-the-2012-west-finals

[Sean Cagney]

more from jackson:
https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmnba/former-spurs-gf-stephen-jackson-didnt-like-tony-parkers-mindset-during-the-2012-west-finals

I came in here to find just this, thank you.....

[J_Paco]

more from jackson:
https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmnba/former-spurs-gf-stephen-jackson-didnt-like-tony-parkers-mindset-during-the-2012-west-finals

He said nothing new, but just reiterated his point that Tony was "selfish" and Pop wouldn't "listen" to him.

Haven't watched that game in years, but bringing it up in 2016 is pretty pointless. The Thunder won and the Spurs lost, so placing blame so many years later isn't going to change the facts of the matter.

Plus, Tony actually played well that game so I don't see how he was even the reason they lost.

I know that certain people need this as evidence that Tony is a "selfish prick" and has cost the team countless victories. He also, apparently, has an agenda against his own teammates since he may or may not have fucked one of their wives (in the past).

[SASdynasty!]

Parker had 29/12 that game. Jackson & Duncan also played well. Manu & Kawhi had bad games, but everyone does. It's not every game that the refs are that bad though.

[140]

He said nothing new, but just reiterated his point that Tony was "selfish" and Pop wouldn't "listen" to him.

Haven't watched that game in years, but bringing it up in 2016 is pretty pointless. The Thunder won and the Spurs lost, so placing blame so many years later isn't going to change the facts of the matter.

Plus, Tony actually played well that game so I don't see how he was even the reason they lost.

I know that certain people need this as evidence that Tony is a "selfish prick" and has cost the team countless victories. He also, apparently, has an agenda against his own teammates since he may or may not have fucked one of their wives (in the past).
:lol

[Mouth is Bleeding]

TONY PARKER SLEPT WITH HIS TEAMMATE'S WIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A highly respected teammate. He destroyed his teammate's marriage.

In the recent high-profile Manu articles and podcasts it is described how Manu and Barry were really good friends.

Barry even visited Manu in Argentina.

Especially Tim as the supreme leader took it upon him to move on, lead the team and maintain working relationships for the greater good of the team.

Manu kept being Manu with his humility, kindness and unselfishness.

But make no mistake about it, they and many others, really do not like Tony.

Forget the bad play, the stupid play and selfishness on court.

OFF THE COURT (where no one is spending time with Tony ever, not even Diaw) Tony Parker committed the greatest sin possible as a team player. He destroyed the marriage of his teammate. He couldn't stay away from a teammate's wife. This is worst locker room sin in existence.

Spurs winning culture is so strong that they managed to moved on, on the surface, but there is no way this will have been forgotten and one day, maybe years from now, careers over, everyone worthy in the Hall of Fame, things will come out and more respected voices than that of Jackson, will tell the truth about Tony. How they really feel about him and all his flaws. How strong they had to be when he kept showing weaknesses and threatened Spurs culture like no one ever since.

No one is perfect of course and I don't even necessarily agree with stone-age team rules about teammates, wifes etc etc but this is the one thing that is completely unacceptable within a team. It is the smelliest dirtiest part of the Porker laundry and of course one day it will surface and likely it will show that Tony isn't loved. He isn't liked and only respected for his best periods on the court.

[K...]

TONY PARKER SLEPT WITH HIS TEAMMATE'S WIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A highly respected teammate.

In the recent high-profile Manu articles and podcasts it is described how Manu and Barry were really good friends.

Barry even visited Manu in Argentina.

Especially Tim as the supreme leader took it upon him to move on, lead the team and maintain working relationships for the greater good of the team.

Manu kept being Manu with his humility, kindness and unselfishness.

But make no mistake about it, they and many others, really do not like Tony.

Forget the bad play, the stupid play and selfishness on court.

OFF THE COURT (where no one is spending time with Tony ever, not even Diaw) Tony Parker committed the greatest sin possible as a team player. He destroyed the marriage of his teammate. He couldn't stay away from a teammate's wife. This is greatest locker room sin in existence.

Spurs winning culture is so strong that they managed to moved on, on the surface, but there is no way this will have been forgotten and one day, maybe years from now, careers over, everyone worthy in the Hall of Fame, things will come out and more respected voices than that of Jackson, will tell the truth about Tony. How they really feel about him and all his flaws. How strong they had to be when he kept showing weaknesses and threatened Spurs culture like no one ever since.

No one is perfect of course and I don't even necessarily agree with stone-age team rules about teammates, wifes etc etc but this is the one thing that is completely unacceptable within a team. It is the smelliest dirtiest part of the Porker laundry and of course one day it will surface and likely it will show that Tony isn't loved. He isn't liked and only respected for his best periods on the court.

THEY WERE ALL ADULTS

[Mouth is Bleeding]

THEY WERE ALL ADULTS

Yes and she is an independent woman who is free and can do what she want.

But whether we agree with these things or not (there is no doubt that this is sexist in its roots), it doesn't change the realities when it comes to what Tony did and how it's the worst thing you can do as a teammate against your teammate.

[Leetonidas]

Like any one of you wouldn't fuck Erin Barry if she said “give me your baguette”

[Mouth is Bleeding]

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.454337.1314604475!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/alg-eva-twitpix-jpg.jpg

[Mouth is Bleeding]

Like any one of you wouldn't fuck Erin Barry if she said “give me your baguette”

Yup, but part of being a teammate is not doing EXACTLY this. Only a select few scumbag teammates would ever do this. Have ever done this.

Who else does this? Tony did it! It's part of his SELFISH character and obviously even dirtier laundry than the on court stuff.

Maybe if they were actually in love or some shit. Started a relationship or whatever. Instead it's just pure selfishness, just like on the court at times, for short term own satisfaction for his hairy french hero-balls at the expense of everyone else.

Well, not just anyone else, his own wife, his teammate.

This speaks to his character.

We can only hope that it has improved. A good sign would be pure unselfishness coming from him this season. He owes it to everyone, more than anyone.

[K...]

As much as I agree that adultery is bad, the presentation of the idea Tony cheated was never proven. It's just a smoke fire thing. Also it happened five years ago. We should move on. I.n those five years this team was consistently successful, more so than any other team not known as the Miami heat. Anyone still complainant about Tony and Erin is misrepresented the facts and beating a dead horse.

[gambit1990]

disgraceful what tony did. worst thing a teammate could do tbh.

[gambit1990]

and people in this thread are talking shit about jackson's character :lol

[Mouth is Bleeding]

As much as I agree that adultery is bad, the presentation of the idea Tony cheated was never proven. It's just a smoke fire thing. Also it happened five years ago. We should move on. I.n those five years this team was consistently successful, more so than any other team not known as the Miami heat. Anyone still complainant about Tony and Erin is misrepresented the facts and beating a dead horse.

adultery is what it is and has been a sacred part of french culture. Every French gentleman worth anything must have a mistress on the side but in the TEAM locker-room this is something much worse.

Thankfully the Spurs were very strong and overcame this but this is about Tony's character and what it means on the court. I think there is a direct link to this his greatest sin as a teammate off the court to his selfishness on the court. He is just a bad teammate period which is exactly the dirty laundry, that Duncan proclaimed great teammate Jackson wants to expose, whatever his motivations and desperation.

[RD2191]

You know you're a loser when you cheat on Eva Longoria.

[itzsoweezee]

TONY PARKER SLEPT WITH HIS TEAMMATE'S WIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A highly respected teammate. He destroyed his teammate's marriage.

In the recent high-profile Manu articles and podcasts it is described how Manu and Barry were really good friends.

Barry even visited Manu in Argentina.

Especially Tim as the supreme leader took it upon him to move on, lead the team and maintain working relationships for the greater good of the team.

Manu kept being Manu with his humility, kindness and unselfishness.

But make no mistake about it, they and many others, really do not like Tony.

Forget the bad play, the stupid play and selfishness on court.

OFF THE COURT (where no one is spending time with Tony ever, not even Diaw) Tony Parker committed the greatest sin possible as a team player. He destroyed the marriage of his teammate. He couldn't stay away from a teammate's wife. This is worst locker room sin in existence.

Spurs winning culture is so strong that they managed to moved on, on the surface, but there is no way this will have been forgotten and one day, maybe years from now, careers over, everyone worthy in the Hall of Fame, things will come out and more respected voices than that of Jackson, will tell the truth about Tony. How they really feel about him and all his flaws. How strong they had to be when he kept showing weaknesses and threatened Spurs culture like no one ever since.

No one is perfect of course and I don't even necessarily agree with stone-age team rules about teammates, wifes etc etc but this is the one thing that is completely unacceptable within a team. It is the smelliest dirtiest part of the Porker laundry and of course one day it will surface and likely it will show that Tony isn't loved. He isn't liked and only respected for his best periods on the court.

Nothing more really needs to be said. Parker's basically a selfish asshole whose deteriorating level of play no longer justifies putting up with his shitiness.

[sasaint]

TONY PARKER SLEPT WITH HIS TEAMMATE'S WIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A highly respected teammate. He destroyed his teammate's marriage.

In the recent high-profile Manu articles and podcasts it is described how Manu and Barry were really good friends.

Barry even visited Manu in Argentina.

Especially Tim as the supreme leader took it upon him to move on, lead the team and maintain working relationships for the greater good of the team.

Manu kept being Manu with his humility, kindness and unselfishness.

But make no mistake about it, they and many others, really do not like Tony.

Forget the bad play, the stupid play and selfishness on court.

OFF THE COURT (where no one is spending time with Tony ever, not even Diaw) Tony Parker committed the greatest sin possible as a team player. He destroyed the marriage of his teammate. He couldn't stay away from a teammate's wife. This is worst locker room sin in existence.

Spurs winning culture is so strong that they managed to moved on, on the surface, but there is no way this will have been forgotten and one day, maybe years from now, careers over, everyone worthy in the Hall of Fame, things will come out and more respected voices than that of Jackson, will tell the truth about Tony. How they really feel about him and all his flaws. How strong they had to be when he kept showing weaknesses and threatened Spurs culture like no one ever since.

No one is perfect of course and I don't even necessarily agree with stone-age team rules about teammates, wifes etc etc but this is the one thing that is completely unacceptable within a team. It is the smelliest dirtiest part of the Porker laundry and of course one day it will surface and likely it will show that Tony isn't loved. He isn't liked and only respected for his best periods on the court.

Disclaimer: I was a fan of Brent. I kind of thought of him as Manu-light. I really loved the ball movement when those two were on the floor together.

Questions: After that alleged episode, why did PATFO ship out Brent rather than Tony? If all you state is true, then why has Pop made Tony more and more a "permanent" member of the Spurs in the years since?

[140]

Disclaimer: I was a fan of Brent. I kind of thought of him as Manu-light. I really loved the ball movement when those two were on the floor together.

Questions: After that alleged episode, why did PATFO ship out Brent rather than Tony? If all you state is true, then why has Pop made Tony more and more a "permanent" member of the Spurs in the years since?
CIA poop tbh

[J_Paco]

You know you're a loser when you cheat on Eva Longoria.

You realize Eva original marriage ended because she allegedly - there is that word that is never applied to Tony's situation - cheated on her first husband with Mario Lopez?

She wasn't a saint and should have realized that a young, attractive dude might have a wandering eye. No one knows what else led to the a dissolution of those two relationships, but I know it is easiest to just blame one person out of 4.

Tony could be/was a shit person, but that doesn't automatically mean he was a "selfish" player. Especially when in the last 15 seasons no one else has ever said things like this about his on-court character.

But hey, let's take the word of an actual selfish, egotistical athlete that burned every bridge during his career.

[RD2191]

You realize Eva original marriage ended because he allegedly - there is that word that is never applied to Tony's situation - cheated on her first husband with Mario Lopez?

She wasn't a saint and should have realized that a young, attractive dude might have a wandering eye. No one knows what else led to the a dissolution of those two relationships, but I know it is easiest to just blame one person out of 4.

Tony could be/was a shit person, but that doesn't automatically mean he was a "selfish" player. Especially when in the last 15 seasons no one else has ever said things like this about his on-court character.

But hey, let's take the word of an actual selfish, egotistical athlete that burned every bridge during his career.
No one ever said anything because they have too much class. Sjax said fuck class and put TP on blast.

[daslicer]

No one ever said anything because they have too much class. Sjax said fuck class and put TP on blast.

:lol Of course this man has a history of doing that ala '04 brawl,being a cancer in the Warriors and Bobcats locker room.

[spurs10]

Yup, but part of being a teammate is not doing EXACTLY this. Only a select few scumbag teammates would ever do this. Have ever done this.

Who else does this? Tony did it! It's part of his SELFISH character and obviously even dirtier laundry than the on court stuff.

Maybe if they were actually in love or some shit. Started a relationship or whatever. Instead it's just pure selfishness, just like on the court at times, for short term own satisfaction for his hairy french hero-balls at the expense of everyone else.

Well, not just anyone else, his own wife, his teammate.

This speaks to his character.

We can only hope that it has improved. A good sign would be pure unselfishness coming from him this season. He owes it to everyone, more than anyone. Erin Berry is a class act and even though she didn't want to stoop so low as to defend herself, she decided to come forward and adamantly state she never had an affair with anyone, loves her kids, and TP had nothing to do with her divorce. Ever consider Brent was fucking around with someone? I'm afraid that is very possible and the reason for their divorce.

[dbreiden83080]

You know you're a loser when you cheat on Eva Longoria.

Cheating on her who cares? Marrying her.. I have no clue why he did that?

[dbreiden83080]

Erin Berry is a class act and even though she didn't want to stoop so low as to defend herself, she decided to come forward and adamantly state she never had an affair with anyone, loves her kids, and TP had nothing to do with her divorce. Ever consider Brent was fucking around with someone? I'm afraid that is very possible and the reason for their divorce.

It's a story basically for no other reason other than she is an attractive woman, and somebody started the rumor.

[SD126]

Not sure Stephen Jacka** has any room to speak given he checked out for about 90% of his second stint here tbh.

[rastaspur]

Yup, but part of being a teammate is not doing EXACTLY this. Only a select few scumbag teammates would ever do this. Have ever done this.

Who else does this? Tony did it! It's part of his SELFISH character and obviously even dirtier laundry than the on court stuff.

Maybe if they were actually in love or some shit. Started a relationship or whatever. Instead it's just pure selfishness, just like on the court at times, for short term own satisfaction for his hairy french hero-balls at the expense of everyone else.

Well, not just anyone else, his own wife, his teammate.

This speaks to his character.

We can only hope that it has improved. A good sign would be pure unselfishness coming from him this season. He owes it to everyone, more than anyone.

Didnt paul george bang hibbert's wife. Delinte west banged lebron's mom. Shit happens. Nba players will be nba players and whores will be whores.

[DJR210]

You know you're a loser when you cheat on Eva Longoria.

She's really not anything special if you've seen her in public man.. I swear her ass was barely there in her velour pants, they were all droopy and shit :lol

[dabom]

She's really not anything special if you've seen her in public man.. I swear her ass was barely there in her velour pants, they were all droopy and shit :lol

Repub. :lol

[spurs10]

It's a story basically for no other reason other than she is an attractive woman, and somebody started the rumor. Yeah exactly! Erin seems like a great woman from what I've seen and heard.

[dabom]

Erin Berry is a class act and even though she didn't want to stoop so low as to defend herself, she decided to come forward and adamantly state she never had an affair with anyone, loves her kids, and TP had nothing to do with her divorce. Ever consider Brent was fucking around with someone? I'm afraid that is very possible and the reason for their divorce.

Why did Eva separate from Tony then?

[dabom]

Bill Simmons was even talking about how there should have been a 30 for 30 episode on how Pop handled the situation.

The basketball insiders already know what happened.

[spurs10]

Why did Eva separate from Tony then?Who knows? My guess is they had problems and Eva got her publicist to spin it in a way sympathetic to her. I believe she accused Tony of texting Erin who has going through a divorce at the time from Brent. Erin's denial is of having an inappropriate relationship with Tony Parker is pretty compelling. When relationships are always in the #&ing press people have a tendency of playing for the cameras.

[DJR210]

Repub. :lol

Why are you tryna engage me over politics? :lol like i give a shit we're fucked either way

[dabom]

Who knows? My guess is they had problems and Eva got her publicist to spin it in a way sympathetic to her. I believe she accused Tony of texting Erin who has going through a divorce at the time from Brent. Erin's denial is of having an inappropriate relationship with Tony Parker is pretty compelling. When relationships are always in the #&ing press people have a tendency of playing for the cameras.

She has 4 kids. When they grow up, they're gonna read this stuff. Does she want her kids thinking she's a cheating whore?

[spurs10]

Bill Simmons was even talking about how there should have been a 30 for 30 episode on how Pop handled the situation.

The basketball insiders already know what happened.
I think they do know. Brent was messing around and got caught. Eva tried to use Erin in her Hollywood gossip bullshit and created a mess. I'm just saying Erin Berry has been blunt and well spoken on the subject. She didn't appreciate the accusation and called everybody out.

[spurs10]

She has 4 kids. When they grow up, they're gonna read this stuff. Does she want her kids thinking she's a cheating whore? That's why she went public. She said for her kid's sake alone she would never do anything like that.

[dabom]

That's why she went public. She said for her kid's sake alone she would never do anything like that.

But what if she did cheat. It's still in her best interest to go out and deny cheating.

[dabom]

I think they do know. Brent was messing around and got caught. Eva tried to use Erin in her Hollywood gossip bullshit and created a mess. I'm just saying Erin Berry has been blunt and well spoken on the subject. She didn't appreciate the accusation and called everybody out.

You don't make a 30 for 30 because Brent was cheating on Erin. That's not how that works my friend. :lol

[dabom]

You a top 10 poster. Imma have to agree on here wit ya. :toast

[spurs10]

You don't make a 30 for 30 because Brent was cheating on Erin. That's not how that works my friend. :lol Yeah you are right that no one would have said a word about Brent cheating on Erin- if that's the story. It became Hollywood news because Eva Longoria decided to air her dirty laundry in the press. It made a lot bigger programs than 30 for 30- which I don't think it ever did- like Oprah. Erin came out of that looking well. Eva not so much.

I don't give a hoot about any of these peoples private lives and thought it should have never been on Access Hollywood.:lol

Of the four, Erin Berry seemed to be the one that didn't have anything to hide. Maybe Tony was banging everything in site who knows? :lol

[spurs10]

You a top 10 poster. Imma have to agree on here wit ya. :toast Back at ya!:lol

[gambit1990]

the people here who are talking the most shit about jackson weren't fans in 03.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO4caOwS6jI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeI1qzX9-zc

and since the people talking shit about him are mostly parker defenders... can you tell me where tony is at in those clips?

[K...]

the people here who are talking the most shit about jackson weren't fans in 03.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO4caOwS6jI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeI1qzX9-zc

and since the people talking shit about him are mostly parker defenders... can you tell me where tony is at in those clips?

Stop this. It's quite possible to appreciate the man from port Arthur and also admit he was a dumb ass for leaving, palace malice, and getting waived. It's also quite possible that Tony didn't relate to a street creature like Jackson.

Also, Tony being a jerk is not a basketball stat. If he was as big as a jerk add you suggest we wouldn't have traded George hill, cojo, and others.


Also, do you think Tim Duncan could have swayed Jackson to stay, sway Tony to go? Kind of obvious who Tim likes.

[gambit1990]

Also, Tony being a jerk is not a basketball stat. If he was as big as a jerk add you suggest we wouldn't have traded George hill, cojo, and others.
:lmao i posted two clips of spurs basketball, did not say anything about tony being a jerk.


Stop this.
:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:c ry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry :cry:cry:cry

says someone who can't stop replying to my posts :lol

[K...]

:lmao i posted two clips of spurs basketball, did not say anything about tony being a jerk.


:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:c ry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry :cry:cry:cry

says someone who can't stop replying to my posts :lol

It's quite possible to appreciate the man from port Arthur.......

[SAGirl]

Dude was straight up hilarious back in the day... he still got it.
752266716009340928

[JohnnyMax]

1187845775985987584

[daslicer]

Jax is like a hurt woman with his constant gossip about Parker and the Spurs.

[J_Paco]

Jax is like a hurt woman with his constant gossip about Parker and the Spurs.

Gossiping like a child, TBH.

Do y'all really think Tony would have stayed around for 17 years if truly did that foul shit?

And he knows TP won't respond, so he continues with the petty nonsense.

Old news and needs to be let go.

[gambit1990]

1187845775985987584
:lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

mein nigga jax dropping truth nukes nothing to see here

[Budkin]

TP living rent free in Jax’s head for all eternity.

[KobesAchilles]

Stephen Jackson looks like the type a nicca who doesn’t wash his sheets.

[ElNono]

Jax has no reason to lie about anything. Not surprising he’s extremely complimentary of Tim and Manu, for example. And he was in that lockeroom unlike the Porker ball washers here, tbh...

[lefty]

Jax has no reason to lie about anything. Not surprising he’s extremely complimentary of Tim and Manu, for example. And he was in that lockeroom unlike the Porker ball washers here, tbh...

[J_Paco]

Jax has no reason to lie about anything. Not surprising he’s extremely complimentary of Tim and Manu, for example. And he was in that lockeroom unlike the Porker ball washers here, tbh...

He wasn't in San Antonio when the alleged "affair" took place, dipshit.

I know this will forever be your trolling schtick, but Parker is headed to the HOF while SJax toils in the Big 3 and talks shit from afar.

[daslicer]

Jax has no reason to lie about anything. Not surprising he’s extremely complimentary of Tim and Manu, for example. And he was in that lockeroom unlike the Porker ball washers here, tbh...

:lol Yes he was very complimentary of Manu when he said Manu does not have the guts to stand up to #2 in the lockerroom. Which was an obvious shot at Manu's manhood. He was also complimentary of Tim when he said Kobe was better than him. You are one of the stupidest trolls in here. Dumbass manutard.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

After being kicked out of the team Jack's sounded more butthurt than some ST posters.

[testies]

Honestly I am still in awe of how we have 5 rings with such toxic people in the locker room. Starting with Porker, the gossiper Jax and others.

Also, led by the worst coach of team USA history. its really historically bad look for the rest of the NBA who was even more incompetent

[Ginobilly]

Jax has no reason to lie about anything. Not surprising he’s extremely complimentary of Tim and Manu, for example. And he was in that lockeroom unlike the Porker ball washers here, tbh...


It's common knowledge in the NBA that tp fucked bones wife. Just like everyone knows about delonte and Mrs James and jokes about it. Who cares

[BWS-1994]

Honestly I am still in awe of how we have 5 rings with such toxic people in the locker room. Starting with Porker, the gossiper Jax and others.

Also, led by the worst coach of team USA history. its really historically bad look for the rest of the NBA who was even more incompetent

Tim Duncan.

[TimmyBuckets]

TP living rent free in Jax’s head for all eternity.

[Ginobilly]

Can u really blame Erin? Parker is a Chad compared to bbarry. Finals mvp, all star, better looking, bigger Chile, french, more money.

[Dverde]

Plus TP was waking up to this...

https://www.hawtcelebs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/eva-longoria-with-no-makeup-at-a-nail-salon-in-los-angeles-06-20-2019-0.jpg

[ElNono]

Honestly I am still in awe of how we have 5 rings with such toxic people in the locker room. Starting with Porker, the gossiper Jax and others.

Also, led by the worst coach of team USA history. its really historically bad look for the rest of the NBA who was even more incompetent