Reddit Posters hints at few NBA 2k Spurs ratings...

[apalisoc_9]

Apperently, dude is reputable.

Kawhi - 92/93
Aldirdge - 88
Pau - 84
Green - 77

If you play 2k, Spurs is deadly thanks to Pau Gasol...

Discuss all spurs related 2k stuff here.

[From Downtown]

Hopefully Manu and Bertans are not too low

[apalisoc_9]

Hopefully Manu and Bertans are not too low

I just need Manu to have a good three pointer :lol

Hopefully Porker maintains his three ball from 2k16 too..Hes areally good at the three ball in 2k16 for some reason..

Also, If anderson can also get a boost with his three point shooting...this team would be Gold.

[Brian Windhorst]

:lol Aldridge under 90

Down the stretch of the season he was one of the best two-way bigs in the league. There were maybe 5 traditional PF/C's that were better than him last year. I'm sure guys like Kevin Love, Dirk, and Marc Gasol will be rated higher. SMH

[Dex]

:lol Aldridge under 90

Down the stretch of the season he was one of the best two-way bigs in the league. There were maybe 5 traditional PF/C's that were better than him last year.

Chalk it up the sacrifice he made to be part of the Spurs system. He could be putting up 25 and 10 on some cellar dweller team like he was in Portland, but he was willing to give up shots and minutes for a shot at a championship. Unfortunately, things like 2K look at his raw stats and assume he has declined.

That's why I am so glad LMA made it to the All-Star game last year. Hopefully it provided some much needed validation that he can still be a big name in the league even if he isn't putting up huge numbers...winning goes a long way to the people who matter.

[apalisoc_9]

:lol Aldridge under 90

Down the stretch of the season he was one of the best two-way bigs in the league. There were maybe 5 traditional PF/C's that were better than him last year. I'm sure guys like Kevin Love, Dirk, and Marc Gasol will be rated higher. SMH

Westbrook was a first teamer in 2015 and he got an 89 in 2016.

90's are usually reserved for superstars and First team All NBA-Players.

I suspect George would be the lowest rated 90..He'd be an 89, but he's the cover athlete so that's not going to happen.

I suspect the top 6 rated players.

Lebron 96
Curry 95
Durant 92/93
Kawhi 92/93
Westbrook 92/93
George 90

Their last dynamic ratings in 2k16 will be strongly considered. I think kawhi's Season End Rating in 2k16 is a 94.

[apalisoc_9]

Chalk it up the sacrifice he made to be part of the Spurs system. He could be putting up 25 and 10 on some cellar dweller team like he was in Portland, but he was willing to give up shots and minutes for a shot at a championship. Unfortunately, things like 2K look at his raw stats and assume he has declined.

That's why I am so glad LMA made it to the All-Star game last year. Hopefully it provided some much needed validation that he can still be a big name in the league even if he isn't putting up huge numbers...winning goes a long way to the people who matter.

You have to be delusional to think Aldridge is part of the 90's tier. :lmao

Westbrook got an 89 last year as a first teamer and a lot of hype.

[jermaine]

Only team I will play with....Bertans just needs high rated 3pt shot. An Mills too.

[apalisoc_9]

Only team I will play with....Bertans just needs high rated 3pt shot. An Mills too.

Yup. Also hoping David Lee is decent enough of a midrange shooter so that when hes out there with deadmon, i can have pop..

[apalisoc_9]

And I imagine Pops would be much preferbale for guys that dont play the game at an elite level...Just because they're adding a layup meter..

Concerning because I already miss a ton of layups in 2k16..

[spurraider21]

surprised you find enough time after work and pokemon go

[lefty20]

Spurs were already deadly af from the mid range last year. Kawhi and LMA were just flat out OP with that elbow J. It's gotta be even better this year with the addition of LMA & Lee.

Just hope that they get rid of that bull shit Spike Lee joint. Shit was flat out annoying.

[Play Boban]

Parker gets a 52 rating.

[hooperflash]

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14066452_10207073824543719_8365817612040503580_o.j pg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/751147278807605248/QIxS0MZI_bigger.jpg Dewayne Dedmon Verified account ‏@d_dedmon3 (https://twitter.com/d_dedmon3)

It's bout that time again @NBA2K (https://twitter.com/NBA2K) @Ronnie2K (https://twitter.com/Ronnie2K)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqrMPkHWYAAfdHx.jpg

[hooperflash]

apalisoc_9 duuude I bought a new controller the other day and it solved all my speed issues in 2K! Apparently the guy I bought the ps4 from threw in a controller with a sorry R2 bumper.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/Ronnie2K

Verified 2K guy, releasing ratings

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQKDcMxTAfw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cunKB_QIqA4

[Mister Sinister]

Tbh I just hope the career mode isn't the same as 16.

[hooperflash]

Former Spur and NBA TV analyst Brent Barry has been added to NBA2K17's broadcast commentary.

Barry appears to have replaced Clark Kellogg.

[DJR210]

For those complaining about the initial ratings, who gives a shit because it changes every week anyway almost

[DJR210]

surprised you find enough time after work and pokemon go

After work and chilling with other people's kids at parks

[From Downtown]

Tbh I just hope the career mode isn't the same as 16.
Same
I'm white ffs, why should I be a black kid from Harlem? :lol

[siraulo23]

Same
I'm white ffs, why should I be a black kid from Harlem? :lol

agreed, myplayer was trash, was much better after spike lee's trash finished

[140]

Great to hear about the Kellogg/Bones swap if true, Kellogg has always been insufferable...Apparently there's a video with Doris Burke doing the play-by-play though :lol

[Mister Sinister]

Same
I'm white ffs, why should I be a black kid from Harlem? :lol

:lol It wasn't even so much that as it was that a lot of the writing felt super cringey and that the voice acting was meh at best.

[Dex]

You have to be delusional to think Aldridge is part of the 90's tier. :lmao

Westbrook got an 89 last year as a first teamer and a lot of hype.

Wow...guess I've been out of the 2K loop too long. I haven't really played since 2K13.

They must be more critical with their ratings than they used to be...who is the highest rated player now?

[NameLess Scrub]

:lol It wasn't even so much that as it was that a lot of the writing felt super cringey and that the voice acting was meh at best.

I haven't played that game since 2k11. Do they still ignore the created player when showing league leaders during the game, or half time highlights?

[lefty]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CopgWzEVUAA1Kkh.jpg

[Mister Sinister]

I haven't played that game since 2k11. Do they still ignore the created player when showing league leaders during the game, or half time highlights?
I don't /think/ so, but I could be wrong, it's been a bit and then some since I played 2k16. I'm more certain that they don't ignore your player for highlights, less so on league stats shown in game.

[sananspursfan21]

Regardless of actual success, the Spurs have always sucked in 2k. I usually play as the worst teams because they have the least skill players and most athleticism. For whatever reason, athleticism and sucky shooting seems to trump actual skill when playing head to head unless you play the CPU. I'll tend to smoke someone by 20+ if I'm the Pelicans as opposed to winning by 2 or 3 with the Spurs....or losing :(

[apalisoc_9]

Wow...guess I've been out of the 2K loop too long. I haven't really played since 2K13.

They must be more critical with their ratings than they used to be...who is the highest rated player now?


Curry. I do think lebron would be the highest rated player this year though. Kawhi ended the season as the third highest.

[Spur|n|Austin]

768628643815841792

[apalisoc_9]

Deadmon 74

[Arcadian]

Regardless of actual success, the Spurs have always sucked in 2k. I usually play as the worst teams because they have the least skill players and most athleticism. For whatever reason, athleticism and sucky shooting seems to trump actual skill when playing head to head unless you play the CPU. I'll tend to smoke someone by 20+ if I'm the Pelicans as opposed to winning by 2 or 3 with the Spurs....or losing :(

Maybe in recent years, but I used to dominate with the Spurs in 2K4-2K7, back when Duncan had a 98-99 player rating. He was unstoppable in the game, just like in real life.

[Seventyniner]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CopgWzEVUAA1Kkh.jpg

:lol wtf

[philldafunk]

I finally got it going with LMA online! Pick and pop all day sometimes I'll back down and do fadeaways, I put up like 24 a game :)


Still won't play against the Warriors, still struggle against the Cavs.

I wish I could get my guys back quicker after a basket, they're so slow...

Danny Green is useless on O

Don't even get me started on TD

[apalisoc_9]

Danny Green is not useless. His three is respectable and he runs in transition. I get around 7-15 points from him.

Key here is to use Parker...Using Parker in horns and fist 91 can rrally open things op for Green and Kawhi...When I get my 45+ points from kawhi, it's usually when I play Porker 22-27 minutes with a decent usage.

[philldafunk]

[QUOTE=apalisoc_9;8712399]Danny Green is not useless. His three is respectable and he runs in transition. I get around 7


I might can get one 3 pointer from Green, even when he's open I can't hit anything. If he scores it's on the break

[apalisoc_9]

[QUOTE=apalisoc_9;8712399]Danny Green is not useless. His three is respectable and he runs in transition. I get around 7


I might can get one 3 pointer from Green, even when he's open I can't hit anything. If he scores it's on the break

Practice your release. Practice Kawhi and Parker playes...thats where danny gets his points.

[TimDunkem]

These games are always a more polished NBA Jam out of the box. Don't take any of the ratings seriously.

[TD 21]

Overall ratings are generally not a measure of where players rank, but how well rounded they are. That's why players like Nowitzki and Parker, in their prime, never had ratings commensurate with the general consensus of where they ranked in real life.

[apalisoc_9]

Overall ratings are generally not a measure of where players rank, but how well rounded they are. That's why players like Nowitzki and Parker, in their prime, never had ratings commensurate with the general consensus of where they ranked in real life.

Not true. 2k in the last couple of years have used the overall ratings as a means to gauge Players ranks. The Dynamic rating is even better now as the best players seperate themselves from the pack as the season ends. Lebron, Curry, Kawhi, Durant and Westbrook for example ended at 94-96 iirc...with the next highest rated player at 90 iirc. So there's clear seperation.

Curry being rated higher than Lebron is the biggest indication.

[apalisoc_9]

I'm just hoping kawhi can be as deadly as NBA 2k16 kawhi...Easily the best player in the game, imo. Deadly shooter from every part of the floor, He makes every darn dunk and contact layup :lol, Against average players or Pro and under AI..Have him guard the PG and watch him score 20 points in transition :lol

It's all about shooting, imo. Lebron should be rated like a 97 but thats not going to happen..

[apalisoc_9]

Regardless of actual success, the Spurs have always sucked in 2k. I usually play as the worst teams because they have the least skill players and most athleticism. For whatever reason, athleticism and sucky shooting seems to trump actual skill when playing head to head unless you play the CPU. I'll tend to smoke someone by 20+ if I'm the Pelicans as opposed to winning by 2 or 3 with the Spurs....or losing :(

You dont know how to play.

Utilizing Parker is key for San Antonio. You start running everything for kawhi and he gets doubled early. Just sprinkle the offense properly ad everyone becomes super deadly. Porker is a really good three pointer. I still end up shooting around 22-27 times with kawhi be he hardly ever gets doubled both by AI and human player...

Mills is really the only shitty player because he can barely make a layup..Anderson is surprisingly good even with a low rating. Being a capable three pointer does that.

[Chris]

Interested to see what LMAlpha's 3pt rating is. A lot of ratings are inflated because of dunks (standing dunks;moving dunks;contact dunks) so not surprised LMA is low.

[apalisoc_9]

Interested to see what LMAlpha's 3pt rating is. A lot of ratings are inflated because of dunks (standing dunks;moving dunks;contact dunks) so not surprised LMA is low.

Considering he barely attempted threes, it's going to be super low.

[TheGreatYacht]

I haven't bought 2k since we drafted fathead. My xbox don't got enough gigabytes to download that cranium

[TrainOfThought5]

I haven't bought 2k since we drafted fathead. My xbox don't got enough gigabytes to download that cranium

Im ashamed to say i laughed

[NicolasBatum]

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1472242629-image.jpeg

[philldafunk]

I was 1 win away from advancing to Hall of Fame, and I lost to the Bucks by 1 point... I suck

[apalisoc_9]

I was 1 win away from advancing to Hall of Fame, and I lost to the Bucks by 1 point... I suck

I got relegated two weeks ago. :lol

[philldafunk]

I got relegated two weeks ago. :lol

Whoever giannis antetokounmpo is, he lit my ass up.

[rastaspur]

Priorities dictated that i quit playing video games 15 years ago. I wish i had the time but i dont. Work and family dominates 90% of my time when im not sleeping.

[DMC]

Must be TSpence

[hooperflash]

I was 1 win away from advancing to Hall of Fame, and I lost to the Bucks by 1 point... I suck

It's ok, the Warriors also lost to the Bucks.

[TrainOfThought5]

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/34/1472242629-image.jpeg

If hes that good in real life he might replace Parker next year.

[Sean Cagney]

Westbrook was a first teamer in 2015 and he got an 89 in 2016.


Westbrook was insane in 2015 when Durant was out, those triple doubles he put up were monster stat lines. I would have had him over a 90.

[cjw]

And I imagine Pops would be much preferbale for guys that dont play the game at an elite level...Just because they're adding a layup meter..

Concerning because I already miss a ton of layups in 2k16..

How hard is it going to be to hit layups with Danny? That meter could make it next to impossible. I haven't played since 2k14 (generally I cycle in just one sports game a year between FIFA, Madden and 2K out of principle) so not sure how it's changed since then.




Don't even get me started on TD

It was a struggle to get to double figures with him even when trying because he'd be sucking wind playing only 30% of the game without having your finger perpetually on turbo. Travesty.

[apalisoc_9]

How hard is it going to be to hit layups with Danny? That meter could make it next to impossible. I haven't played since 2k14 (generally I cycle in just one sports game a year between FIFA, Madden and 2K out of principle) so not sure how it's changed since then.





It was a struggle to get to double figures with him even when trying because he'd be sucking wind playing only 30% of the game without having your finger perpetually on turbo. Travesty.

Danny Green is surprisingly a decent layup and dunk guy on 2k :lol Provided you dont try to go up against their defensive Big..Plus, Iyou never try to layup when you can dunk...Layups are by far the worst shot in 2k15 and 16..So easy to block and a slight contest will result in a miss if you're notrated 90+ with layups...its crazy.

I dont do layups anymore but this will be disastrous if you use Parker because in 2016, Parker was a master with layups and drops...and really if you want to play the best basketball, you need to use Parker.

[apalisoc_9]

For guys playing 2k16...There's a new custom roster out with All-time teams. :lol...

Funny as hell. Starting lineup Parker-Gervin-Leonard-Duncan-Robinson...relevant sub Ginobili and ******.

Gervin sucks in this game. He cant shoot to save his life but he's a great transition and D guy..I start Manu.

Robinson os by far the deadliest player though..His Pick and Pop is automatic. :lol

[philldafunk]

It was a struggle to get to double figures with him even when trying because he'd be sucking wind playing only 30% of the game without having your finger perpetually on turbo. Travesty.

I normally make a group substitution at the 2:30 mark after the first, and everyone will be in the low 90's for fatigue and Duncan is like at 72 lmao. Poor guy.

There will be times when he COMPLETELY blows his assignment, misses bunnies right under the basket etc.

Side note, I hope 2K does something about off-ball defense. Playing against guys who just stay on the Center and switch whenever the ball gets passed to the post -_-

[jermaine]

I normally make a group substitution at the 2:30 mark after the first, and everyone will be in the low 90's for fatigue and Duncan is like at 72 lmao. Poor guy.

There will be times when he COMPLETELY blows his assignment, misses bunnies right under the basket etc.

Side note, I hope 2K does something about off-ball defense. Playing against guys who just stay on the Center and switch whenever the ball gets passed to the post -_-

I swear I thought that was just me.... I'm like Duncan is waaaaaay better than that. I lost so many games of him missing bunnies.... An that offball.. Hate that suit with a passion. Dudes use to have pride in tryna shut a person down with onball defense. Now they just try to play the lane on with the center. An when the ball enters the post, they click off an try swiping with a guard for the steal. But I kinda blame 2k for the dumbass AI on defense. Late putting their hands up, stupid zip passes through the whole defense, an dudes leaving their assignmentsfor no reason.

[jermaine]

I've had Madden for 5days outta Redbox... If I don't like it after tomorrow, I'm not buying it. Imma so the say with NBA 2k17. I'm tired of paying for bullshit them it needs a update on release date. That's retarded.

[philldafunk]

I've had Madden for 5days outta Redbox... If I don't like it after tomorrow, I'm not buying it. Imma so the say with NBA 2k17. I'm tired of paying for bullshit them it needs a update on release date. That's retarded.



I returned Madden 16 all the circus catches it was crazy. To date 2k5 will be the best NFL game, EA needs to give up the license.

I can complain all day about 2k basketball lmao.

No matter what I do my Spurs are slow getting back on D.

You can never score on a fast break dunk/layup with a defender trailing they will always get the chase down block.

Bad passes.

Dribbling the ball off your foot

Boban doing a reverse layup under the basket (and missing) instead of dunking

Poor CPU defensive AI, can't tell you how many times I scream "who's man is that?"

[Chinook]

My top three all-time NFL games are NFL Street 2, NFL Head Coach 09 and Madden 02.

Getting to the point where I can't stand 2K. Tired of all the animations. I'm not playing it to watch a telecast. I just want to play the god damned game. And the fact that any time you get near the rim, you do some animation instead of just going for a regular shot is annoying. As far as I can tell, there isn't even a good way to pick which animation you have. My guys are pointlessly stopping on the break looking for contact instead of just running to the rim when they are ahead of the field.

[J_Paco]

Kyle Anderson is stuck with the same shitty cyberface (face model) for the third year in a row.

:bang:bang:bang

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrDBwWcWcAAazk0.jpg

I'm surprised he's only 2 points "better" than Murray, but I'll take a 74 overall (or better/worse when switched to PF) if they did a better job replicating his unique game. That face is still shit, though...

Yes, the "canimations" have been an annoying and tiresome aspect of the game. Unfortunately, it seems they haven't figured out how to create realistic contact animations without using "pre-set" animations. The day they can get away from that and more towards the "organic" contact of Madden, FIFA/PES & NHL will be a blessing.

The AI also left a ton to be desired last year, but overall I thought last year was a solid title. They were really ambitious with a lot of the AI, controller and franchise/GM mode changes they made, so issues being around isn't from a lack of effort. It just comes with the territory of trying to replicate the most complex major sport into a video game. Hopefully, they knock this season out the park. I hate a the secrecy and lack of information so close to the games launch, though.

[TheGreatYacht]

Fathead's rating is 74 too high

[J_Paco]

Fathead's rating is 74 too high

I think all three Spur players (Dedmon = 74, Anderson = 74 & Murray = 70) that have been revealed are pretty generous, TBH. How Murray can be considered a raw prospect, but rated as well as some established veterans is perplexing?

I'm really interested in seeing how Tony, Manu, Danny and Boban are rated this season. Boban should have one of the most unique cyberfaces in sports video game history....

[apalisoc_9]

I think all three Spur players (Dedmon = 74, Anderson = 74 & Murray = 72) that have been revealed are pretty generous, TBH. How Murray can be considered a raw prospect, but rated as well as some established veterans is perplexing?

I'm really interested in seeing how Tony, Manu, Danny and Boban are rated this season. Boban should have one of the most unique cyberfaces in sports video game history....

Murray is a 70.

Anderson overall seems a bit too low, imo...but it doesnt matter. So long as he can hit the occasional three, that's everything i need from him.

San Antonio is going to revolve around pick and Pops anyway..should be a fun game, but the extra animations in layups, plus the layup is meter makes the layup the worst shot shot ever.

They need to fix this. I really feel like layups or for bigs close shots or throw convert 30% of the time...It 's stupid silly...But not a whole lot of people complain because everyone is speed chasing, three point cheesing etc.

Need more balance 2k!

[DeRozan m8]

I returned Madden 16 all the circus catches it was crazy. To date 2k5 will be the best NFL game, EA needs to give up the license.

I can complain all day about 2k basketball lmao.

No matter what I do my Spurs are slow getting back on D.

You can never score on a fast break dunk/layup with a defender trailing they will always get the chase down block.

Bad passes.

Dribbling the ball off your foot

Boban doing a reverse layup under the basket (and missing) instead of dunking

Poor CPU defensive AI, can't tell you how many times I scream "who's man is that?"

Mate, what on earth are you doing to make all these problems happen?

Also, will Pop finally be bearded up in 2k17?

If not, its pathetic tbh

Though i'd rather Pop just lost the beard so we could ring easier tbh

[LaMarcus Bryant]

People still play 2k hoops? :lol

[TheRemix]

Apa you seem pretty smart about 2k, whats your strategy against players who use GS? Ran into this guy earlier who was just abusing stephs cross overs and making shots from half court at an efficient rate. I always stick danny on steph and never play parker against gs he gets abused on D. I win most of the time against GS users but I want to know how you play them. What defensive strategies do you use?

My record with the spurs is 418-170ish, can't recall. I got all the trophies too

[apalisoc_9]

Apa you seem pretty smart about 2k, whats your strategy against players who use GS? Ran into this guy earlier who was just abusing stephs cross overs and making shots from half court at an efficient rate. I always stick danny on steph and never play parker against gs he gets abused on D. I win most of the time against GS users but I want to know how you play them. What defensive strategies do you use?

My record with the spurs is 418-170ish, can't recall. I got all the trophies too

If your record is 418-170, then i wouldbt be able to help you since you are a better player. My record with the spurs is 298-101.

I usually use Tony and Danny on Steph. Tony is fast enough to defend steph and if you go hard nose on curry, players are forced to drive..In which case I rely on my bigs to help out. I find that most GSW players panic when they have to drive with steph.

I switch with tony and danny all the time though. It confuses some players. I play Tony a decent amount because he's argubly the second most important offensive player in my team behind Kawhi. He's got a great three pointer, Great layup.

I usually go shoot at will, Limit transition, Play physical defense, crash defensive boards.

I find that 95% of the time I lose to GSW..its either because of Green or thompson.
Mostly Green going 4-8 something on three.

For defense

[TheRemix]

If your record is 418-170, then i wouldbt be able to help you since you are a better player. My record with the spurs is 298-101.

I usually use Tony and Danny on Steph. Tony is fast enough to defend steph and if you go hard nose on curry, players are forced to drive..In which case I rely on my bigs to help out. I find that most GSW players panic when they have to drive with steph.

I switch with tony and danny all the time though. It confuses some players. I play Tony a decent amount because he's argubly the second most important offensive player in my team behind Kawhi. He's got a great three pointer, Great layup.

I usually go shoot at will, Limit transition, Play physical defense, crash defensive boards.

I find that 95% of the time I lose to GSW..its either because of Green or thompson.
Mostly Green going 4-8 something on three.

For defense

Not bad thats a pretty decent record,

Thats a good tactic mixing it up by throwing tony and danny on steph it's just that curry's dribble moves shake tony every damn time and that's all it takes for curry to get enough space to knock down a 3. It's frustrating because this is all happening at half court.

I usually have manu at point just because he's got more length on the defensive side and he won't get beat that easy when I have him on iggy/barnes. I run a lot of plays for Aldridge/kawhi. Some pick and pops with aldridge and post ups. Some kawhisos here and there as well. Fist 91 horns with parker works sometimes for danny and kawhi but thats only if the opponet doesn't have it set to deny off ball on them.

Some other plays that are money are fist 42, swing fist, zipper fist, zipper 23, high fist, quick hawk 2. I got all the plays memorized and I usually have to get creative with them. It all depends on what the other guy is doing.

GS is the team I have the most trouble with. I can beat the 95-96 bulls easily as well as the cavs and thunder and any other team. Its fun to beat low iq players and make them rage quit.

[apalisoc_9]

Not bad thats a pretty decent record,

Thats a good tactic mixing it up by throwing tony and danny on steph it's just that curry's dribble moves shake tony every damn time and that's all it takes for curry to get enough space to knock down a 3. It's frustrating because this is all happening at half court.

I usually have manu at point just because he's got more length on the defensive side and he won't get beat that easy when I have him on iggy/barnes. I run a lot of plays for Aldridge/kawhi. Some pick and pops with aldridge and post ups. Some kawhisos here and there as well. Fist 91 horns with parker works sometimes for danny and kawhi but thats only if the opponet doesn't have it set to deny off ball on them.

Some other plays that are money are fist 42, swing fist, zipper fist, zipper 23, high fist, quick hawk 2. I got all the plays memorized and I usually have to get creative with them. It all depends on what the other guy is doing.

GS is the team I have the most trouble with. I can beat the 95-96 bulls easily as well as the cavs and thunder and any other team. Its fun to beat low iq players and make them rage quit.

I find Isolation plays a lot more reliable in crunch time since smart players tend to adjust to sets after a couple of sets. Every now and then I test out a few other playbooks. The Hawks playbook is King btw. You should try it out and watch Aldridge-Kawhi wreck havoc. Timmy is unplayable with the Hawks playbook though and Tony isnt as effective but it super maximises Kawhi-Aldridge-Green...

I can only imagine how devastating the hawks playbook is when Pau is part of the offense..

[DJR210]

Kyle Anderson is stuck with the same shitty cyberface (face model) for the third year in a row.

PC version has cyberface mods bro, it's a godsend w/ this game.. Hopefully his play warrants a modder to go in and hook him up :tu


Fathead's rating is 74 too high

They'll chop that down to a respectable 66 after the first update

[loveforthegame]

770811973936287744

770814689743867904

[apalisoc_9]

770811973936287744

770814689743867904

Ridiculous that Klay is a 90 and grouped with more well rounded players like AD, George etc....

[apalisoc_9]

The dude can barely dribble, super overrated defender and isnt even a top 5 shooter in %...Wtf is this bullshit?

If Harden isnt rated as the best SG despite his flaws...:lol

[jermaine]

It looks like Ginobili rating is around 78 to 79... I seen the 1st four people in the team an his was halfway seen. Im glad to see they have Murray an Bertans on the roster an we dont have to wait for a updated to get them.

[jermaine]

But I noticed Bertans 3pt grade is D... How is that??? 2k never do the Spurs grades correct. I just hope Mills can hit consistently.

[Chinook]

If your record is 418-170, then i wouldbt be able to help you since you are a better player. My record with the spurs is 298-101.

His winning percentage is 71 while yours is 75. You've been the more successful player for sure.

[jermaine]

I think imma like 2k17. Imma practice for 1vweek before I play my 1st online game

[philldafunk]

If your record is 418-170, then i wouldbt be able to help you since you are a better player. My record with the spurs is 298-101.

I usually use Tony and Danny on Steph. Tony is fast enough to defend steph and if you go hard nose on curry, players are forced to drive..In which case I rely on my bigs to help out. I find that most GSW players panic when they have to drive with steph.

I switch with tony and danny all the time though. It confuses some players. I play Tony a decent amount because he's argubly the second most important offensive player in my team behind Kawhi. He's got a great three pointer, Great layup.

I usually go shoot at will, Limit transition, Play physical defense, crash defensive boards.

I find that 95% of the time I lose to GSW..its either because of Green or thompson.
Mostly Green going 4-8 something on three.

For defense



I'm not sure if you're trolling about TP, this isn't the first time I've read you saying something like that. If you are in fact being serious about his scoring potential and have PS4, I'd love to shareplay and watch how exactly you score so much with TP.

That goes for anyone else too, I'll shareplay and watch you guys play too see how you use TP, and Green because I can't get it going with either.

PSN=philldafunk

[SpursforSix]

[QUOTE=philldafunk;8715897

I'll shareplay and watch you guys play too see how you use TP, and Green because I can't get it going with either.
[/QUOTE]

:pop: Same here. What channel is shareplay on?

[J_Paco]

People still play 2k hoops? :lol

:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes

Yeah, like 4 million people or more.

As the kids say, you late as fuck..

[apalisoc_9]

I'm not sure if you're trolling about TP, this isn't the first time I've read you saying something like that. If you are in fact being serious about his scoring potential and have PS4, I'd love to shareplay and watch how exactly you score so much with TP.

That goes for anyone else too, I'll shareplay and watch you guys play too see how you use TP, and Green because I can't get it going with either.

PSN=philldafunk

I didnt mean scoring wise...I Just run a lot of Pick and Pop with Tony and once human player starts paying a lot of attention to the poper, i either score with him or run around for an open man. I rarely pick and roll since its more vurneable to turnovers.

My top 3 scorers are usually Kawhi-LA-Manu/Green..But tony makes everything possible, imo. He's a great player to use..His three point and Midrange and surprisingly elite..Not sure if its because Im used to his meter, but if I get enough space, he almost always makes it.

If you want, we can play 2k16 sometime..I use to play with @flahzo here but he rage quit one time and didnt want to play anymore. :lol

[apalisoc_9]

Green can get it going if you use Tony heavily, imo. Doesnt mean they will score more than kawhi, because my wings in general benefit heavily from Tony.

[SpursforSix]

because my wings in general benefit heavily from Tony.

:pop: Mine don't.

[140]

:pop: Same here. What channel is shareplay on?


:pop: Mine don't.
:lol

[apalisoc_9]

If anyone is up for a game tonight on PS4, send me your psn..

[hooperflash]

If anyone is up for a game tonight on PS4, send me your psn..

ME, with the new controller tbh.

[tbdog]

Klay is a 90, ffs.

[jermaine]

Draymon Green is also a low 90's rating. But with the way I'm hearing you have to use your bench in 2k17, the Dubs might not be all that.

[apalisoc_9]

ME, with the new controller tbh.
Ill pm you later

[apalisoc_9]

Draymon Green is also a low 90's rating. But with the way I'm hearing you have to use your bench in 2k17, the Dubs might not be all that.

You only need 2 subs tbh. Everything is managable. Plus timeouts are key rest moments

[jermaine]

Went to game stop to buy Madden 17 an seen signs saying NBA 2k17 saying 9/16 if you get it early.... of course my dumbass bout it an Madden 17.

[hooperflash]

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14141606_10207137620338574_6625030204034779064_n.j pg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=81f91706305784d2f3c77aa470dd2bc4&oe=584773E2

[BillMc]

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14141606_10207137620338574_6625030204034779064_n.j pg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=81f91706305784d2f3c77aa470dd2bc4&oe=584773E2

I like this mainly because it looks like the Cavs' sword is murdering LeBron. :lol

[BD24]

I always love Apa coming on here and pretending he is some kind of godsend on 2k, cracks me up. 2k has been shit since 2k13 tbh, last good one was 2k12. Maybe this year will be better, but if the last few versions are any indication that is doubtful.

[tbdog]

I always love Apa coming on here and pretending he is some kind of godsend on 2k, cracks me up. 2k has been shit since 2k13 tbh, last good one was 2k12. Maybe this year will be better, but if the last few versions are any indication that is doubtful.

This is completely wrong, although in the new decade it has been a little down, the last two additions have been rock solid. If I remember correctly, 2k12 was the worst. There was a known problem where the computer would never ever ever ever double team another player. You could have Shaq on the blocking backing down Boykins, and the computer would never ever send another player. The game was broken because of it. 2k13 made big changes but the game had no interior shot blocking. 2k14 was the new console generation and the game had two versions. The last gen console was nearly identical to the previous year but fixed the interior defense, where as the current gen had no features. 2k15 and 2k16 have made great additions to the game. The sim is pretty much there.

[BD24]

This is completely wrong, although in the new decade it has been a little down, the last two additions have been rock solid. If I remember correctly, 2k12 was the worst. There was a known problem where the computer would never ever ever ever double team another player. You could have Shaq on the blocking backing down Boykins, and the computer would never ever send another player. The game was broken because of it. 2k13 made big changes but the game had no interior shot blocking. 2k14 was the new console generation and the game had two versions. The last gen console was nearly identical to the previous year but fixed the interior defense, where as the current gen had no features. 2k15 and 2k16 have made great additions to the game. The sim is pretty much there.
After 2k12 there was no emphasis put on defense. The glitch you are thinking of is totally made up btw. 2k13 was absolute ass, the most recent two were better than it, but thats not saying a hell of alot. The franchise mode has been pretty decent, but as far as being a legitimate competitive game 2k is a joke at this point. 2K11 was probably the best 2K i have played though tbh.

[tbdog]

After 2k12 there was no emphasis put on defense. The glitch you are thinking of is totally made up btw. 2k13 was absolute ass, the most recent two were better than it, but thats not saying a hell of alot. The franchise mode has been pretty decent, but as far as being a legitimate competitive game 2k is a joke at this point. 2K11 was probably the best 2K i have played though tbh.

What you mean? You can change sliders so much. Put 100 for on ball d and you will struggle to drive. You can crank the D up if you want. The challenge is finding the balance.

[apalisoc_9]

Guys who barely or never played 2k16 complain about 2k16...Classic :lmao

[BD24]

What you mean? You can change sliders so much. Put 100 for on ball d and you will struggle to drive. You can crank the D up if you want. The challenge is finding the balance.
Can't turn sliders on online. I mean in custom games sure, but otherwise no.

I actually played 2k16 fairly extensively, I just don't mess with playing it online much as competitively it's a joke. Good call though auntfucker

[tbdog]

Can't turn sliders on online. I mean in custom games sure, but otherwise no.

I actually played 2k16 fairly extensively, I just don't mess with playing it online much as competitively it's a joke. Good call though auntfucker

Oh yeh I never ever play online. Online in a lot of sports games sucks.

[philldafunk]

Kyle Anderson is really growing on me for online play. Just had a game against OKC, and kid came thru for me led the team in scoring!

I swear there are tines when I leave the bench on the court longer than the starters.

[SAGirl]

Kyle Anderson is really growing on me for online play. Just had a game against OKC, and kid came thru for me led the team in scoring!

I swear there are tines when I leave the bench on the court longer than the starters.
:lol :toast. This was funny. Hopefully dude shows up for real life,play too.

[BD24]

Kyle Anderson is really growing on me for online play. Just had a game against OKC, and kid came thru for me led the team in scoring!

I swear there are tines when I leave the bench on the court longer than the starters.
I was a big fan of Kyle in 2k16. You could get mismatches with him pretty easy and back the little guys down. He had a pretty nice mid range game as well. In franchise mode I would send him to shooting camp, once that 3 rating went up he was super solid.

[apalisoc_9]

Kyle Anderson is really growing on me for online play. Just had a game against OKC, and kid came thru for me led the team in scoring!

I swear there are tines when I leave the bench on the court longer than the starters.

Probably thensecond best bench player behind Manu. Mills is atrocious, imo.

Plus in 2k16, i swaer he always hits hist first couple of threes. :lol

[Mister Sinister]

Somewhat OT, but has anyone found an objectively "best" or "most ideal" starting build for the career mode? I'm planning on dicking around with the Prelude and I'm curious what this year's ideal build is going to be.

[jermaine]

I was a big fan of Kyle in 2k16. You could get mismatches with him pretty easy and back the little guys down. He had a pretty nice mid range game as well. In franchise mode I would send him to shooting camp, once that 3 rating went up he was super solid.

I would put him at pg with the 2nd unit! Got tired of Livingston from GS bullying Mills.

[TheGreatYacht]

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14141606_10207137620338574_6625030204034779064_n.j pg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=81f91706305784d2f3c77aa470dd2bc4&oe=584773E2
Why tf isn't Lamarcus in the pic? He's clearly the best player smh

[hooperflash]

Why tf isn't Lamarcus in the pic? He's clearly the best player smh

He might be the Spurs player on the screen if they select the Spurs for the away team.

[YGWHI]

Just for the people who struggle with maths...

Kawhi rated 93

LMA 88

Kawhi>>>>>>>LMA on 2K

[philldafunk]

2K be cheating!

Up by 3 against the Cavs, a little less than a minute left in the 4th.
I got caught w/ one of those bs back court violations (when the defender bumps you, and you get that lame animation)
Opponent scores, I'm still up by one
I get doubled, so I call timeout
He has a defender in front of my inbouner, and picks the pass off.
I feel like I can still make the stop
Love misses the mid range jumper, but he gets the offensive rebound
Lebron with the windmill dunk for the win
.5 seconds left, kawhii hits the buzzer beater 3, but the game doesn't count it. No replay or anything

Definitely the most painful loss to date for me

[DJR210]

:wow @ Kawhi's 93

Shit will be 89 after the 1st week though

[hooperflash]

Did we just get new "AT&T Center" logos? http://www.attcenter.com/

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14364653_1386555318026031_1383739073939808820_n.jp g?oh=d7cd41a00ec4ffe9ffe13f97cdaf9508&oe=58866067
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14344973_1386555348026028_7003412590583556645_n.jp g?oh=9daf0d8b53c4f4100aeeb67fa4c9de1e&oe=5875EB76

[TheRemix]

2k17 drops tonight ya'll, can't wait to use the team online with gasol/murray and go up against all the GS bandwagoners. Gonna be a satisfying night to get them all to rage quit

[SAGirl]

2k17 drops tonight ya'll, can't wait to use the team online with gasol/murray and go up against all the GS bandwagoners. Gonna be a satisfying night to get them all to rage quit

you go for it remix! post a screenshot! (I don't play, but I find this thread lighthearted)

[Chinook]

I initially hated 2K17, but now I think it's going to be a game I play for years (probably not going to buy game in this series. It just seems to have so much gameplay in it. I don't care too much for the story in the story mode, since it's a sports game. But I do like the mode. My biggest complaint so far is that you can't turn of after-basket cutaways in some modes. I've always found them incredibly distracting as well as all the other little things they put in to make the game feel more realistic.

Also, the AI seems really stupid in franchise mode. Ingram fell to fifth-overall in my draft, and all the teams above me started offering my the guys they just drafted plus more for my pick.

[apalisoc_9]

You know one thing about this game is that smaller guards now feelnat least somewhat useful. The layup meter really worked on their favour...in 2k16 they always missed every layup with a slight contest.

[Darius Bieber]

Spurs in-depth roster stats on 2K17:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzUD5HWBo8k

[jermaine]

I'm 12- 2 in 2k17. One loss was the internet failed in a tie game 30 to 30... An my 2nd loss was to golden state by 3. I play with everyone on the team.

[jermaine]

I suck at layups though!

[jermaine]

Make that 13- 2.... JermaineWebb on ps4 if anyone wanna piece. I only play with the Spurs.

[Chinook]

I got PC

[jermaine]

I'm 16- 2 now! Most everyone wanna play with Cavs or Golden state..... But someone pulled the Clippers out on me.

[TrainOfThought5]

Make that 13- 2.... JermaineWebb on ps4 if anyone wanna piece. I only play with the Spurs.

Yo, did you go to law school in DC?

[DeRozan m8]

17 is sick... I thought last year was a good step up but they've done it again.
I think next year again there'll be even more focus on players skills and moves, but I really rate that part this year.

Career much better too, less story bullshit.

Spurs rebounding is noticeably better in the game, loving it.

Wish it would put Kyle at the bottom of the line up so I don't have to always change it.

[Arcadian]

17 > 16. I like the new menu interface. Reminds me of last decade. Simple, streamlined. The 2KU is a good way of doing a tutorial, by playing an actual game. I just wish they would add another classic Spurs team, like one with Prime Duncan (they just have rookie Duncan in the game). But I know people will create him and upload rosters anyway.

[8FOR!3]

How do you guys run your offense against the computer? Call plays manually/automatically, or do you just use pick and rolls and move the ball?

[Chinook]

How do you guys run your offense against the computer? Call plays manually/automatically, or do you just use pick and rolls and move the ball?

I think it's still way too easy to win by just shooting threes in that game. You don't even need to be particularly open to do it. In previous installments, I found running plays to be too tedious. I'm still in the testing phase (just playing every mode a little bit to see what the game is like), but normally, I like working out of the post. Most decent bigs can make a large number of post fadeaways, so that's a pretty good foundation for me.

[apalisoc_9]

How do you guys run your offense against the computer? Call plays manually/automatically, or do you just use pick and rolls and move the ball?

One of my bigger complains about plays in video game is how slow the set options transpire. If you run Horns for example, you only have time to go through 2 option at most...

I dont have 2k17 yet but I'm hoping the pace is fast enough to go through the whole thing...

But a normal pick and roll or Pop still yeilds like a million options...a lot better and AI take longer to adjust..at least that was the case with 2k16.

[Chinook]

But a normal pick and roll or Pop still yeilds like a million options...a lot better and AI take longer to adjust..at least that was the case with 2k16.

That reminds me: I really wish players who can't shoot didn't spot up behind the arc. That's especially true for bigs. I wish the game took into account a player's skills when determining their AI. If I'm running a 1/4 PnR from the wing, I want the 5 on the opposite block, not the corner.

[apalisoc_9]

That reminds me: I really wish players who can't shoot didn't spot up behind the arc. That's especially true for bigs. I wish the game took into account a player's skills when determining their AI. If I'm running a 1/4 PnR from the wing, I want the 5 on the opposite block, not the corner.

What do you mean? I find that most centers roll to the rim soon as the 4 receives the pass for the pop. But I agree, I've seen way too many occasions when you run a roll or Pop and the center is in the corner three..I think every player is designed to move that way because it's alot easier to program and structure the AI that way.

It's not a problem most player encounter because almost everyone is playing with a strerch four for extended periods..but this was def a problem with the spurs.

Maybe Spursfans should point this out in the 2kcommunity..I dont know how many times Ive been stuck with Aldridge on the xorner three...yuck.

[TD 21]

The three-point shooting of a lot of players should be altered. They always overreact to one year, on both ends of the spectrum, as well as overrate low volume shooters.

Aside from that, the ratings aren't bad, but as always, there's a lot of either incorrect or outdated information. Every year, before I start playing, I go through and alter a bunch of things.

[szkorhetz]

Gasol is a monster in the game.

[8FOR!3]

One of my bigger complains about plays in video game is how slow the set options transpire. If you run Horns for example, you only have time to go through 2 option at most...

I dont have 2k17 yet but I'm hoping the pace is fast enough to go through the whole thing...

But a normal pick and roll or Pop still yeilds like a million options...a lot better and AI take longer to adjust..at least that was the case with 2k16.

Parker has a play where you run the pick and the guy rolls out for a wide open shot. Allows you to drive to the basket, pass for the open shot, or if his shot isn't open you can try and hit someone for a 3. At least involves moving the ball some.

[apalisoc_9]

The three-point shooting of a lot of players should be altered. They always overreact to one year, on both ends of the spectrum, as well as overrate low volume shooters.

Aside from that, the ratings aren't bad, but as always, there's a lot of either incorrect or outdated information. Every year, before I start playing, I go through and alter a bunch of things.

What did you change? I only bothered with Kawhi..I took off some points and increased some.

[tonight...you]

I got PC
Yeah, me too. Otherwise I would jam out. Too busy busting it up on Overwatch right now to be concerned with 2K17 anyways. I'll wait for a sale on that one.

[apalisoc_9]

The game is not on shelves right now..I'd probably buy the game in october..but who knows. I usually dont even bother with 2k in the first month or two of the season..

And then I get bored with the NBA and start playing :lol

[jermaine]

17 is sick... I thought last year was a good step up but they've done it again.
I think next year again there'll be even more focus on players skills and moves, but I really rate that part this year.

Career much better too, less story bullshit.

Spurs rebounding is noticeably better in the game, loving it.

Wish it would put Kyle at the bottom of the line up so I don't have to always change it.

Kyle is actually pretty nice on here. Great spot up shooter! Green sucks for me. His defense can take a upgrade if you ask me.

[jermaine]

That reminds me: I really wish players who can't shoot didn't spot up behind the arc. That's especially true for bigs. I wish the game took into account a player's skills when determining their AI. If I'm running a 1/4 PnR from the wing, I want the 5 on the opposite block, not the corner.

Dedmon stays out at the 3pt line. I be like nicca why are you even out there.

[DeRozan m8]

Kyle is actually pretty nice on here. Great spot up shooter! Green sucks for me. His defense can take a upgrade if you ask me.

Maybe i'll give him a shot.

Whats some tips on using him?

Danny draining 3s this year....well, until the season starts at least.

[apalisoc_9]

Green is bad on D in 2017? Damn..

He was really good in 2016.

[TheRemix]

Plays take forevor to develop in 17. It takes half the shot clock just to get everyone in position just to run zipper fist..I'm loving gasol, hes like tim but with a better mid jumper. Dedmon is actually pretty good too tbh I had a block party with him a couple of games. So far 8-3 haven't played much after day 1.

I actually had a lot of mirror matches. Everybody's jumping on the spurs bandwagon.

Oh and its pretty fucking stupid how when I make a sub in a timeout it doesn't come into effect until the next dead ball

[apalisoc_9]

Plays take forevor to develop in 17. It takes half the shot clock just to get everyone in position just to run zipper fist..I'm loving gasol, hes like tim but with a better mid jumper. Dedmon is actually pretty good too tbh I had a block party with him a couple of games. So far 8-3 haven't played much after day 1.

I actually had a lot of mirror matches. Everybody's jumping on the spurs bandwagon.

Oh and its pretty fucking stupid how when I make a sub in a timeout it doesn't come into effect until the next dead ball

It's always been that way :lol

The sets and plays take forever. That's why its never a good idea to run them in crunch time..you'd just turn the ball over or end taking a bad shot :lol

The problem with sets and plays in 2k is that the AI seems to have a pre-determined place in the court before they start any actions in a set or play. Like if you run the spurs loop for Parker, the AI wont trigger the movement of parker unless you passed it to the wing player when he is completely behind the three point line..so sometimes you have to pass it back to parker and pass it back again just to trigger a parker run.

Another cringeworth example is if you run a quick Hawk 3 for Green..Green won't start moving unless every player, including players in the weak side who have nothing to do with the play are positioned in their respective position.

2k needs to improve on this and program the AI to have a better understanding of how plays transpire, when to make smart adjustments etc..

Easier said the done though. It might take a while before AI in video games become that much smarter..probably 5 years more..earliest

[TheRemix]

Yeah it really ruins the flow and pace of the game. I always try to emulate what the offense does in real life and it's annoying to see it not executing just because a player wasn't in a certain spot.

Last year was bad of course, but this year with all the new bumping animations, it takes like 3-5 seconds longer to start the play

[Chinook]

Gasol is a monster in the game.

Papagiannis is my favorite player in that game, I think. Dude's just huge with great hands, and he runs the floor extremely well. I live in transition and on him diving on the PnR. He's a great rebounder, too.

[Chinook]

Yeah it really ruins the flow and pace of the game. I always try to emulate what the offense does in real life and it's annoying to see it not executing just because a player wasn't in a certain spot.

Last year was bad of course, but this year with all the new bumping animations, it takes like 3-5 seconds longer to start the play

Yeah, I miss the old days where things weren't so slow. I have no idea why games are moving toward a bunch of pace-breaking animations, but 2K is by far the worst at those as well as animations that make you miss shots because your guy will try to pull a move when all he had to do was shoot.

[philldafunk]

I still haven't picked it up yet, I normally wait for the price drop.

[TheRemix]

Yeah, I miss the old days where things weren't so slow. I have no idea why games are moving toward a bunch of pace-breaking animations, but 2K is by far the worst at those as well as animations that make you miss shots because your guy will try to pull a move when all he had to do was shoot.

I see this a lot in MyCareer, sometimes when I pass the ball to an open man they'll do a step back and by the time the animation is done the defense is right in their face.

[apalisoc_9]

So had the opportunity to play it a friends place today...

Dissapointing how the AI is still super dumb on defense. Helping when you clearly dont need help, allowing a shitty run on a full court press etc.

Was really hoping AI would be much smarter this time around but no. Run a pick and roll and 50% chance player from weekside is going to help even if you dont need to...

Smdh.

Really dissapointing.

[apalisoc_9]

Anyone know why kawhi and Parker ratings are different in matchups and rating menu? Kawhi is a 94 and Parker an 81 ingame but are 93 and 80 in roster.

[spursistan]

854367191944142849

Kawhi is a 96 along with Russ/Harden but higher than KD/Curry (95)..LeBron is a (97)..

[apalisoc_9]

854367191944142849

Kawhi is a 96 along with Russ/Harden but higher than KD/Curry (95)..LeBron is a (97)..

Russ and Harden should be nowhere near a 96. :lol

Heck Westbrook is a gpod defender according to 2k. :lmao

Realisticly, Lebron with improved shooting should be an all time high of 99.

[DAF86]

854367191944142849

Kawhi is a 96 along with Russ/Harden but higher than KD/Curry (95)..LeBron is a (97)..

Those are some awful ratings.

If the bar is Lebron at 97, Kawhi and Durant should come at 95, Curry at 94 and Harden and Westbrook at 93.