Report: Spurs attempting to sign Argentine guard Nicolas Laprovitolla

[Uriel]

769145480408293376769146358544470020

[LittleCriminal]

Another Point Guard?? Interesting.

[TheGreatYacht]

Him and Garino won't make the roster :lol

[MB20]

Him and Garino won't make the roster :lol

Probably.

But happy for both of them, having a chance to test themselves at the highest level of basketball. Great experience.

[SPURt]

Who do they cut to make room for him?

[GSH]

Him and Garino won't make the roster :lol


He's not going to make the jump without some kind of guarantee, IMO. The Spurs have never guaranteed minutes that I am aware of, but he will at least have to make the roster. If the Spurs don't want to do that, no big deal. He just won't come.

[TheGreatYacht]

Probably.

But happy for both of them, having a chance to test themselves at the highest level of basketball. Great experience.
Would've rather they gave Campazzo the shot, tbh.

[r0drig0lac]

I had already commented here, but watched Laprovittola in Flamengo for 2 years, and he can play in the nba (Campazzo is too small)

[BillMc]

Hope he comes. More competition is always a good thing. What's the general book on him?

"Laprovittola" that's a lot of letters for the back of the uniform.

[TheGreatYacht]

He's not going to make the jump without some kind of guarantee, IMO. The Spurs have never guaranteed minutes that I am aware of, but he will at least have to make the roster. If the Spurs don't want to do that, no big deal. He just won't come.

[ElNono]

Manu just getting ready to be the next Spurs GM, tbh

[TheGreatYacht]

If he takes Murray's already limited minutes.... Stay the fuck over there :td

[ElNono]

if this is really happening it would point towards two things, IMO:
- They don't think they'll be able to retain Patty when his current deal is done
- They don't think Murray will be ready in the next 2-3 years, or just insurance in the case he doesn't pan out

[ElNono]

This might also all be a ploy by Pop to fuck with play-by-play announcers, tbh

[buttsR4rebounding]

if this is really happening it would point towards two things, IMO:
- They don't think they'll be able to retain Patty when his current deal is done
- They don't think Murray will be ready in the next 2-3 years, or just insurance in the case he doesn't pan out

I think you are right on here. I believe they are planning for Patty's replacement. Truth is he plays more of a shooting guard. I think Forbes is another possibility to replace what he brings to the table. Patty is likely to get 10 million plus in this environment and I don't think the Spurs will pay that.

[benefactor]

Hometown: Moron, Argentina

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nicolas-Laprovittola-48386/stats/

:lol

[GSH]

if this is really happening it would point towards two things, IMO:
- They don't think they'll be able to retain Patty when his current deal is done
- They don't think Murray will be ready in the next 2-3 years, or just insurance in the case he doesn't pan out


Pop is a huge believer in experience when it comes to the playoffs. There have been a couple of times he might have played a young guy more in the postseason, but for the most part it's hard to argue with his reliance on experience in the crunch . Laprovitolla has been playing professionally since he was about 17. He's also a scrappy guy who won't fall apart when the other team starts playing physical. Murray doesn't have the experience, and Patty hasn't always done so well against physical play - but he's still likely to get paid a shitload of money next time. So, yeah, I think that's right on both counts.

Laprovittola is a lot bigger and stronger than either Parker or Patty. That's a big advantage against physical teams. He's a good distributor, but he also scores enough to force teams to defend his shot as well. I would seriously LOVE to see the Spurs pull this off and get him to come here. You never know how a guy will do in a different league, but I think he's got a better shot than most for doing what the Spurs need.

[loveforthegame]

769155076246167552

769166594484408320


Nicolas Laprovittola has already a deal in place with the San Antonio Spurs, a source told Sportando. Argentinian point-guard finished last season in ACB with Estudiantes and now he's heading to San Antonio to join his compatriots Manu Ginobili and Patricio Garino. Terms of the deal are still not clear but the first year Laprovittola will likely make around $500.000.

Laprovittola will fight for the last spot in the roster with his friend Patrico Garino, who signed a partially guaranteed deal with the Spurs during the off-season.

[lefty]

Better than Porker tbh....

[Maddog]

Hometown: Moron, Argentina

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nicolas-Laprovittola-48386/stats/

:lol

Must know a lot of our posters...

[140]

Better than Porker tbh....

[BatManu20]

:lobt2:

[Obiwonginobili]

Laprovittola is a lot bigger and stronger than either Parker or Patty. That's a big advantage against physical teams. He's a good distributor, but he also scores enough to force teams to defend his shot as well. I would seriously LOVE to see the Spurs pull this off and get him to come here. You never know how a guy will do in a different league, but I think he's got a better shot than most for doing what the Spurs need.
^^^THIS

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs just ahead of the game. Already thinking about next off- season when Mills likely signs elsewhere.

They obviously intend to plant seeds in Austin with Forbes, Arci and now Lapro for the year.

One of those three will likely fill the 3rd PG spot for pennies in 17'/18'.

[r0drig0lac]

Argentina Spurs

[Mikeanaro]

I would rather have Campazzo, tbh.

[BackHome]

I would search under every stone for good players. The only players I would not touch would be LMA and Kawhi. Everyone else earn your spot or get traded/released .

[kaji157]

Campazzo seems like a more NBA ready prospect. I am not sure if Laprovittola can play at the speed the NBA is played right now. Surely in the Olympics had a lot of trouble from time to time.
Anyways, i am not sure this report is right, i don´t see the Spurs bringing in Laprovittola to compete with Murray (Guaranteed), Mills (Guaranteed) and Tony (Guaranteed). I´d say he will come only if one of those players is traded for a pick, or combined with another player (Simmons, Anderson) for one player.

[cutewizard]

Trade looming????

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UUYj2XoJDU

[cutewizard]

There is a sense of purpose in this offseason for our beloved Spurs!

Im happy for all of us Spurs fans, our beloved team is making an effort to be ultra-competitive in the post-Duncan era.

Intelligence. Purpose. Determination.

[Dex]

well okie dokie then. Gonna be an interesting camp and preseason....lots of fringe players fighting for limited spots.

czAQt8pF7_Q

[cutewizard]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicol%C3%A1s_Laprov%C3%ADttola


http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/q/Nicolas%20Laprovittola/pid//_//players.html


http://projectspurs.com/2016-articles/report-spurs-trying-to-bring-in-argentinean-guard-nicolas-laprovittola.html


http://www.sportando.com/en/usa/nba/210477/spurs-have-a-deal-in-place-with-nicolas-laprovittola.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttNH7VA-n2A

[cutewizard]

Strange release on his shot, unusual form.....hmmmm

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvFz2ukdFLs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEFnKxaIGiw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czAQt8pF7_Q

[mookie2001]

Nono what's the circumcision rate in his birthplace

[cd98]

Do you think this is part of Manu's contract extension or do you think the Spurs are just letting these guys go to camp to make Manu's last year a little more homely? Clearly neither are the best options, but maybe Manu has something on Pop. How are they going t get "Laprovitolla" on the back of a jersey? Abbreviate?

[cutewizard]

Do you think this is part of Manu's contract extension or do you think the Spurs are just letting these guys go to camp to make Manu's last year a little more homely? Clearly neither are the best options, but maybe Manu has something on Pop. How are they going t get "Laprovitolla" on the back of a jersey? Abbreviate?


-------------------------------------------

Haha! Check out the "Metta World Peace" jersey man.......lol!

[TheGreatYacht]

Hometown: Moron, Argentina

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nicolas-Laprovittola-48386/stats/

:lol
I can't believe this guy was born in Moron

613501010305269760

[Keepin' it real]

I watched several of the Argentina games during the olympics. Don't recall hearing that name once. Were the announcers mispronouncing it? I don't even remember anything close to "Laprovitolla". They just kept hooting and hollering about the feisty little guy.

[Keepin' it real]

if this is really happening it would point towards two things, IMO:
- They don't think they'll be able to retain Patty when his current deal is done
- They don't think Murray will be ready in the next 2-3 years, or just insurance in the case he doesn't pan out

Nope, the Spurs know they have a star in Murray. He should be getting significant minutes by the RRT or soon thereafter.

[sasaint]

Strange release on his shot, unusual form.....hmmmm

Thanks for sharing all the Lapro videos. It is hard to tell whether he has the quickness or defensive chops to make it in the NBA. And "best of" videos always emphasize scoring, making Lapro seem more like a combo guard... Again, it is hard to tell what kind of playmaker he might be in the big league.

We are accumulating plenty of prospects for the backcourt. I would hate to see the Spurs repeat the Jamychal Green experience - bringing a good rotation player into the league only to see him go to another team and get nothing in return. Perhaps this signing means that the Spurs are considering trading Patty while his contract is a bargain and his value is very high after an outstanding performance in Rio. I, for one, would hate to see the Spurs part company with him, however, they do need to upgrade certain aspects of the backcourt. Maybe Simmons can be traded...

[8FOR!3]

Don't think this has much of anything to do with Patty, he's basically a two guard while he's on the floor. Maybe we're considering starting the season with Murray in Austin to get him some real minutes.

[ElNono]

Nono what's the circumcision rate in his birthplace

Multiple sources report near zero, tbh

[ElNono]

He's more of a floor general kind of PG, tbh... might actually work out as a late-Manu replacement, in the backup PG role... obviously, he has a lot to prove at this level, he's not a lock to anything.

[Canyonero]

He's like a white Magic Johnson tbh.

[Spur-Addict]

He had a really good showing at the Olympics, rather him over Garino despite the roster implications. Although Murray will need to see minutes, it's a given he will be in Austin a bit already, and immediately Murray will be most impactful scoring the ball. So I have no problem with this.

[cd98]

He's more of a floor general kind of PG, tbh... might actually work out as a late-Manu replacement, in the backup PG role... obviously, he has a lot to prove at this level, he's not a lock to anything.

This is much too conservative of a review for a prospect on Spurstalk.

[spurs10]

He's not going to make the jump without some kind of guarantee, IMO. The Spurs have never guaranteed minutes that I am aware of, but he will at least have to make the roster. If the Spurs don't want to do that, no big deal. He just won't come. I understand there is just one place on the roster for him, Garino, Archie, and Forbes to compete over. I think Simmons, Bertans, Murray, and LJC all have guaranteed spots at 11 through 15. So a guaranteed spot on the roster is not a given.

I'm just wondering if they can just put all or several of these guys on the Austin team?

[Mouth is Bleeding]

Murray will have to learn how to play actual basketball before he can do anything relevant.

I'm all for this move.

[Hoops Czar]

Assuming he makes the team, who exactly are the Spurs going to cut that allows them to sign Nicolas Laprovitolla? Last I checked, the roster stood at 16 and they aren't cutting LJC.

[Mouth is Bleeding]

don't have a lot of belief in LJC at this point but hoping for the best and some kind of comfortable role where he can make good contributions.

but I fear he has little future here

[SnakeBoy]

Dude looks really slow. Can't wait to see him and Kyle on the break.

[sasaint]

don't have a lot of belief in LJC at this point but hoping for the best and some kind of comfortable role where he can make good contributions.

but I fear he has little future here

His future here is to take up a spot on the roster that would otherwise go to a real basketball prospect that might actually develop. But, the Spurs will keep LJC and gift another team a Forbes or Garino or Lapro or Simmons and get nothing in return, ultimately to dump LJC for nothing either.

[SpursforSix]

Who do they cut to make room for him?

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/tony-parker-missed-t-b.gif

[SAGirl]

if this is really happening it would point towards two things, IMO:
- They don't think they'll be able to retain Patty when his current deal is done
- They don't think Murray will be ready in the next 2-3 years, or just insurance in the case he doesn't pan out
I think both are possible.

1.) I suspect they will try to retain Patty but at the same time, it's foreseeable that they won't be able to and it may not even be in either part's best interest. For the Spurs bc they may want to look at other FA (and Gasol and Dedmon have PO to begin with, so even to retain some of their current guys will be $) and for Patty bc he needs to look out for himself. I could see it going either way, but Patty is not 100% a lock to come back so it makes sense to plan for that eventuality.

2.) They already don't project Murray to be able to help any sooner than his second season at least and RC publicly stated as much, bc he needs help improving his efficiency at the rim and his shooting to start with. But perhaps the concern is not that they need to wait until his 2nd or 3rd year, but that he's not really a PG prospect. It's really uncertain what he is, he might be a combo guard, and really his ballhandling level would need to improve for him to be a PG. All of these uncertainties with Murray require the FO to be proactive planning for eventualities.

[mo7888]

Trade looming????

It sure feels like it..

[gambit1990]

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/tony-parker-missed-t-b.gif
:lol

[140]

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/tony-parker-missed-t-b.gif
:rollin

[SAGirl]

I think you are right on here. I believe they are planning for Patty's replacement. Truth is he plays more of a shooting guard. I think Forbes is another possibility to replace what he brings to the table. Patty is likely to get 10 million plus in this environment and I don't think the Spurs will pay that.
I think Pop values Patty the person a lot, as well as his experience, but there is a real possibility he will be priced out of their range for what he gives and they know that. It's relatively easy to find other guys who can shoot the 3 and are 6'0" tall. They won't have Patty's championship experience and continuity in the system, but the skills per se are not irreplaceable. The bench system has been centered around Manu anyways. Once Manu retires they could be going a different direction and that is the guy they will need to pay well. It would be a huge mistake to make Patty the "centerpiece" of the bench, particularly when in the not too distant future, they can already foresee Tony being moved to play in the bench anyways. They could always trade Patty at that point, but the opportunity cost of other guys they might have passed on the next offseason to re-sign Patty is gone.

I still think Spurs will try to retain Patty, but it really may not be realistic in the end above a certain price.

[stxspurs]

Done deal!

[sasaint]

It sure feels like it..

You are more optimistic than I. Where the Spurs are concerned it NEVER feels like a trade is looming - especially a prima facia "good" trade.

[gambit1990]

trade parker...

[Diego20]

:cry Us Argies :cry

[SAGirl]

Thanks for sharing all the Lapro videos. It is hard to tell whether he has the quickness or defensive chops to make it in the NBA. And "best of" videos always emphasize scoring, making Lapro seem more like a combo guard... Again, it is hard to tell what kind of playmaker he might be in the big league.

We are accumulating plenty of prospects for the backcourt. I would hate to see the Spurs repeat the Jamychal Green experience - bringing a good rotation player into the league only to see him go to another team and get nothing in return. Perhaps this signing means that the Spurs are considering trading Patty while his contract is a bargain and his value is very high after an outstanding performance in Rio. I, for one, would hate to see the Spurs part company with him, however, they do need to upgrade certain aspects of the backcourt. Maybe Simmons can be traded...
It wasn't just Jamychal Green they let go and got nothing in return for him after helping the young man develop into a real NBA player for a couple of seasons. They also lost CoJo, Baynes, Boban to FA. All guys they developed and were unable to re-sign. (Diaw had to be traded to sign Gasol, so I am not putting him there, and Tiago was traded to sign LMA and really was unhealthy in both Spurs and ATL, so in a sense, they were traded for "returns"=capspace to sign someone they really wanted). But all those other guys were really let go for nothing. Patty and Simmons might figure to be in that group of FA they could lose this next Summer for nothing. I just didn't think they would be proactive trading guys bc it hasn't been a way the Spurs have operated lately but at the same time they can't continue to hemorrhage talent at the rate they have been without any assets or players to show for it. It's unsustainable.

[SAGirl]

Assuming he makes the team, who exactly are the Spurs going to cut that allows them to sign Nicolas Laprovitolla? Last I checked, the roster stood at 16 and they aren't cutting LJC.
They had 14 guys guaranteed and Arci, Forbes and Garino competing for the 15th. Basically something like this (I mean you can slot Simmons, Anderson, Bertans, and Lee in alternate spots, there is debate and probably competition for spots. Even Murray may be more of a SG at this point than a PG... but just for purposes of counting spots):

Tony/Patty/Murray
Danny/Manu/Simmons
Kawhi/Anderson/
LMA/Bertans/LJC
GAsol/Dedmon/Lee

It would appear the 3rd string backup SF spot is available but since Simmons and Bertans can probably play it, it's not a lock the spot goes to GArino. It can be argued the position of most need is the 3rd string backup PG, if you consider Murray more of a SG/combo guard.

[sasaint]

It wasn't just Jamychal Green they let go and got nothing in return for him after helping the young man develop into a real NBA player for a couple of seasons. They also lost CoJo, Baynes, Boban to FA. All guys they developed and were unable to re-sign. (Diaw had to be traded to sign Gasol, so I am not putting him there, and Tiago was traded to sign LMA and really was unhealthy in both Spurs and ATL, so in a sense, they were traded for "returns"=capspace to sign someone they really wanted). But all those other guys were really let go for nothing. Patty and Simmons might figure to be in that group of FA they could lose this next Summer for nothing. I just didn't think they would be proactive trading guys bc it hasn't been a way the Spurs have operated lately but at the same time they can't continue to hemorrhage talent at the rate they have been without any assets or players to show for it. It's unsustainable.

Yeah, I'm with you. I just used Jamychal as an example because I didn't want to go through the whole list. I just get tired of our refusal to make some prima facia "good trades". :toast

[GSH]

He's more of a floor general kind of PG, tbh... might actually work out as a late-Manu replacement, in the backup PG role... obviously, he has a lot to prove at this level, he's not a lock to anything.


I didn't want to say it earlier, because this place goes ape-shit crazy over stuff, but he is an Avery Johnson style point. I'm not saying he IS Avery Johnson, or that he will be as good as AJ. Just that their styles are similar. If you go back and look at some old video of AJ and compare them to the above, I think it will show.

Parker has always had a tendency to over-penetrate. Patty, too, to some extent. I guess because they are both looking to score first? AJ was always looking to get to a spot on the floor where he had an angle to make a good pass to a teammate. Parker and Patty both destroy their angles, and have to make their passes wide of the target to try and keep from getting picked off. It gives defenders time to close on the shooters, because they have to gather the ball and then get their feet under them. Laprovitolla runs the point much more like AJ did.

The biggest thing is that he's strong enough not to get the ball taken away from a lot, as he brings it over the mid-court line. Last year I got totally sick of watching Tony and Patty struggle when the defense got physical. (Like they do in fourth quarters.) Don't know if he can do it at this level, but I'd rather take a chance on him than a lot of the bums and skeletons that have been getting floated as possible PG insurance.

[Dex]

don't have a lot of belief in LJC at this point but hoping for the best and some kind of comfortable role where he can make good contributions.

but I fear he has little future here


Assuming he makes the team, who exactly are the Spurs going to cut that allows them to sign Nicolas Laprovitolla? Last I checked, the roster stood at 16 and they aren't cutting LJC.

I still don't understand why everyone is automatically pencilling LJC in for a roster spot. What has this guy done exactly to stand out? He's been underwhelming in overseas competition, has already had a serious knee surgery that sidelined him for half a year, and only put up 4/4/1 in 17 minutes against Summer League scrubs. Not exactly eye-popping numbers there.

If it weren't for Parker saying that he was definitely coming over, I don't think anyone would really expect him to be on the roster come training camp. He's gonna have to really prove something to make me believe he deserves a spot over Murray, Garino, or even Laprovitolla.

[GSH]

I still don't understand why everyone is automatically pencilling LJC in for a roster spot.


Watch it. Chinook will go absolutely fucking crazy over talk like that.

Even if he's right, and the Spurs owe him something, I would have paid him and then waived him before I let him clog a roster spot. Apparently that's a bad thing, and I'm a bad person for thinking it. Don't follow my wicked example.

[spurs10]

I still don't understand why everyone is automatically pencilling LJC in for a roster spot. What has this guy done exactly to stand out? He's been underwhelming in overseas competition, has already had a serious knee surgery that sidelined him for half a year, and only put up 4/4/1 in 17 minutes against Summer League scrubs. Not exactly eye-popping numbers there.

If it weren't for Parker saying that he was definitely coming over, I don't think anyone would really expect him to be on the roster come training camp. He's gonna have to really prove something to make me believe he deserves a spot over Murray, Garino, or even Laprovitolla. I believe because he was a first round pick he has a guaranteed spot on the roster.

[sasaint]

Watch it. Chinook will go absolutely fucking crazy over talk like that.

Even if he's right, and the Spurs owe him something, I would have paid him and then waived him before I let him clog a roster spot. Apparently that's a bad thing, and I'm a bad person for thinking it. Don't follow my wicked example.

:lol If that take is wicked, then there is a lot of wickedness on ST beyond your singular example. :toast

[Hoops Czar]

I still don't understand why everyone is automatically pencilling LJC in for a roster spot. What has this guy done exactly to stand out? He's been underwhelming in overseas competition, has already had a serious knee surgery that sidelined him for half a year, and only put up 4/4/1 in 17 minutes against Summer League scrubs. Not exactly eye-popping numbers there.

If it weren't for Parker saying that he was definitely coming over, I don't think anyone would really expect him to be on the roster come training camp. He's gonna have to really prove something to make me believe he deserves a spot over Murray, Garino, or even Laprovitolla.

Why don't you just come out and say it, he's terrible. However, the Spurs are loyal to a fault so I expect them to give LJC a chance to prove himself. I don't expect him to play much at all for the big league Spurs this year but, he should get plenty of burn in Austin. It's not an ideal situation because he's not very good and he doesn't have a high ceiling. At his best, he's a fringe NBA talent but from what I saw of him during summer league, even that may be a stretch. However, if memory serves me correct, he'll still tie up a roster spot playing for Austin so unless the Spurs cut him outright (extremely unlikely given that he was a Spurs 1st round draft pick), he'll be on the roster next year.

Feel free to bump this post when he becomes the next Moses Malone :lol

[SAGirl]

I didn't want to say it earlier, because this place goes ape-shit crazy over stuff, but he is an Avery Johnson style point. I'm not saying he IS Avery Johnson, or that he will be as good as AJ. Just that their styles are similar. If you go back and look at some old video of AJ and compare them to the above, I think it will show.

Parker has always had a tendency to over-penetrate. Patty, too, to some extent. I guess because they are both looking to score first? AJ was always looking to get to a spot on the floor where he had an angle to make a good pass to a teammate. Parker and Patty both destroy their angles, and have to make their passes wide of the target to try and keep from getting picked off. It gives defenders time to close on the shooters, because they have to gather the ball and then get their feet under them. Laprovitolla runs the point much more like AJ did.

The biggest thing is that he's strong enough not to get the ball taken away from a lot, as he brings it over the mid-court line. Last year I got totally sick of watching Tony and Patty struggle when the defense got physical. (Like they do in fourth quarters.) Don't know if he can do it at this level, but I'd rather take a chance on him than a lot of the bums and skeletons that have been getting floated as possible PG insurance.
It's telling that one of the guys Pop praised the most at the end of last season was Andre Miller. He loved him he said, and wished he was 30 years old. It's also telling out of all the candidates for that 15th spot two are PG in that mold. Arci is younger, but he's also a passer and a good shooter. He was for sure playing in SL a style that prioritized setting other ppl up and moving the ball to the scorer or open teammate than looking for his own shots. He might have been criticized by others (TGY, but I mean who doesn't that guy roast? really), but one has to think we were watching what the Spurs coaching staff was asking him to do. Vitolla is a more experienced version of what they liked in Arci apparently from what you are saying. Both guys can shoot a 3 too, something the Spurs system (featuring the post up player so much) requires too.

[TheGreatYacht]

This guy fucking sucks and he's inefficient as fuck playing against a bunch brazilians :lol

[TD 21]

if this is really happening it would point towards two things, IMO:
- They don't think they'll be able to retain Patty when his current deal is done
- They don't think Murray will be ready in the next 2-3 years, or just insurance in the case he doesn't pan out

They can easily retain Mills, if they so choose.

A lot can change in a year, but to say right now that some camp invite is a future replacement for a sixth man, is ridiculous. All camp invites are long shots to be NBA players period, let alone rotation ones. If one of them is on the team in '17-'18, they'll have done well.

Also, having an entire bench of fringe young players, is a good way to piss off Aldridge and to a lesser extent Gasol. Doing so will only make it more difficult to lure the next significant free agent.

[gambit1990]

training camp/preseason games should be interesting...

[urunobili]

He's definitively not Campazzo TBH

[SAGirl]

They can easily retain Mills, if they so choose.

A lot can change in a year, but to say right now that some camp invite is a future replacement for a sixth man, is ridiculous. All camp invites are long shots to be NBA players period, let alone rotation ones. If one of them is on the team in '17-'18, they'll have done well.

Also, having an entire bench of fringe young players, is a good way to piss off Aldridge and to a lesser extent Gasol. Doing so will only make it more difficult to lure the next significant free agent.
I agree that they can retain Mills if the want, but I am not sure they will prioritize him over other guys, or that they should. I am ambivalent on Mills myself. I really don't care. I think he fits in the future if they want to retain him, but also, he really is not irreplaceable. He has one of the most replaceable skills of anybody in the "core" bc he's a small no defense bench SG whose best skill is shooting and tends to be streaky. If he's having a streaky shooting night then you are fried. He doesn't get inside or draw fouls and he won't be great setting others up or finding other ways to put points on the board. He's definitely not a guy to build a bench around.

[MaNu4Tres]

They can easily retain Mills, if they so choose.

A lot can change in a year, but to say right now that some camp invite is a future replacement for a sixth man, is ridiculous. All camp invites are long shots to be NBA players period, let alone rotation ones. If one of them is on the team in '17-'18, they'll have done well.

Also, having an entire bench of fringe young players, is a good way to piss off Aldridge and to a lesser extent Gasol. Doing so will only make it more difficult to lure the next significant free agent.

I highly doubt they'll choose to retain Mills. It just doesn't make much sense to me. Plus, I do know the coaches haven't been thrilled with his progression since 14' in other areas of the game outside of shooting.

Agree with how crazy it is for some to say Larpo is a future six man replacement or saying he has value because of how strong he is and how he can protect the ball well (may as well go the nearest fitness expo and teach the strongest guy how to dribble the ball up the court then).

Agree all camp invites like Forbes, Arci, Larpo and Garino are long shots to be NBA players -- especially rotation ones. It's hilarious to see some people try to compare these undrafted guys to proven NBA starters and role players. And then thinking these undrafted players will be able to carve out a role sooner than Murray. Its mind boggling how some posters think so highly of these undrafted players. They are like the new girls in school -- all fives in the objective eyes but they look like 8 or 9's to some guys only because they are new.

[SAGirl]

I highly doubt they'll choose to retain Mills. It just doesn't make much sense to me. Plus, I do know the coaches haven't been thrilled with his progression since 14' in other areas of the game outside of shooting.

Agree with how crazy it is for some to say Larpo is a future six man replacement or saying he has value because of how strong he is and how he can protect the ball well (may as well go the nearest fitness expo and teach the strongest guy how to dribble the ball up the court then).

Agree all camp invites like Forbes, Arci, Larpo and Garino are long shots to be NBA players -- especially rotation ones. It's hilarious to see some people try to compare these undrafted guys to proven NBA starters and role players. And then thinking these undrafted players will be able to carve out a role sooner than Murray. Its mind boggling how some posters think so highly of these undrafted players. They are like the new girls in school -- all fives in the objective eyes but they look like 8 or 9's to some guys only because they are new.
I don't find it so hilarious bc Mills himself was barely an NBA prospect. He was drafted 55 and was out of the league. He was basically a rescue pet project by the Spurs and as Pop said: "a little fat ass" Credit to himself for whipping himself into shape, but all these guys are about the same possibly as the Mills when he was 22 years old.

[ElNono]

They can easily retain Mills, if they so choose.

A lot can change in a year, but to say right now that some camp invite is a future replacement for a sixth man, is ridiculous. All camp invites are long shots to be NBA players period, let alone rotation ones. If one of them is on the team in '17-'18, they'll have done well.

Also, having an entire bench of fringe young players, is a good way to piss off Aldridge and to a lesser extent Gasol. Doing so will only make it more difficult to lure the next significant free agent.

None of these guys are a lock for anything at this point, but it's also silly to think they just pick random guys, IMO. I'm fairly sure there's a plan somewhere for each one of these guys that might pan out or not. Especially when you're talking about guys that are not your average d-leaguers looking for a shot, but guys that have played in different leagues professionally already (which the Spurs seem to prefer).

Time will tell, obviously.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't find it so hilarious bc Mills himself was barely an NBA prospect. He was drafted 55 and was out of the league. He was basically a rescue pet project by the Spurs and as Pop said: "a little fat ass" Credit to himself for whipping himself into shape, but all these guys are about the same possibly as the Mills when he was 22 years old.

I was talking about short term. Some expect these guys to be relevant this year and next by suggesting they're probably doing this because they don't see Murray being ready in the next 2-3 years. That rationale is just silly. Sure there's a plan, but that plan has nothing to do with this year. It's about planting seeds for the future by developing most of these guys in Austin for a year or two and then maybe, just maybe one might be able to carve out a spot on the roster and a small role.

[BillMc]

Watch it. Chinook will go absolutely fucking crazy over talk like that.

Even if he's right, and the Spurs owe him something, I would have paid him and then waived him before I let him clog a roster spot. Apparently that's a bad thing, and I'm a bad person for thinking it. Don't follow my wicked example.

Sorry man I'm following your wicked example.:toast Anyone that knows me knows I root for ALL Spurs players. That said I've seen nothing from LJC that makes me think he's deserves a spot on the team. I know Chinook's reasons (ethical and otherwise) why he should make the squad and Chinook does some fine work on this site, but I just can't shake the feeling that we're going to be forced to cut a better player to keep LJC.

[MaNu4Tres]

LJC was a first round pick. His deal is guaranteed. He won't be waived or cut. Spurs have 14 spots locked up.

[Canyonero]

:cry Us Argies :cry

:cry now sign Scola and Acuña so we can have a starting team :cry

[spurs10]

I believe because he was a first round pick he has a guaranteed spot on the roster.


LJC was a first round pick. His deal is guaranteed. He won't be waived or cut. Spurs have 14 spots locked up. This

[tmtcsc]

Dude looks really slow. Can't wait to see him and Kyle on the break.

Apparently you are going to have to.

[SAGirl]

LJC was a first round pick. His deal is guaranteed. He won't be waived or cut. Spurs have 14 spots locked up.
Yea that is why i didn't comment on it, and a lot has been said elsewhere by chinook, nono and others, about the contract, the Spurs honoring the deal, etc.

Other than that he's an athlete who is 6'9". As we saw in SL the crop of bigs who is not under some team's control is awful. The SL team was playing as bigs some guys who were 6'6" or 6'7" and the guys who were 7" were clearly very unskilled. Bottom line, Livio was an NBA prospect when he was drafted, but RC can't have a 100% record on drafting NBA players at the end of the first round, and it is looking like LJC is going to be one of those who don't pan out. In reality though I don't expect him to be under pressure until next season. They have to give him the same chance they have given others bc it's a contract. He's a 1st round pick and that is that. Maybe they could have not stashed him and developed him themselves, but since they didn't this is what they have to work with.

[ElNono]

I was talking about short term. Some expect these guys to be relevant this year and next by suggesting they're probably doing this because they don't see Murray being ready in the next 2-3 years. That rationale is just silly. Sure there's a plan, but that plan has nothing to do with this year. It's about planting seeds for the future by developing most of these guys in Austin for a year or two and then maybe, just maybe one might be able to carve out a spot on the roster and a small role.

I'm pretty sure the FO expects Murray to pan out, but there's absolutely zero wrong with both having insurance and giving him some competition.

[TD 21]

I agree that they can retain Mills if the want, but I am not sure they will prioritize him over other guys, or that they should. I am ambivalent on Mills myself. I really don't care. I think he fits in the future if they want to retain him, but also, he really is not irreplaceable. He has one of the most replaceable skills of anybody in the "core" bc he's a small no defense bench SG whose best skill is shooting and tends to be streaky. If he's having a streaky shooting night then you are fried. He doesn't get inside or draw fouls and he won't be great setting others up or finding other ways to put points on the board. He's definitely not a guy to build a bench around.

What "other guys"?

If you consider Mills a core player, then yeah, he's the most replaceable; but every team needs a guard of his ilk off the bench. If they let him go and promote Forbes, they'll have gotten worse and for what?

All this talk of flexibility sounds great, but Paul is the only game changing guard up soon and there's no reason to think he won't re-sign with the Clippers.

Also, if something significant comes up and they have to clear salary, if Mills is as valuable to other teams as many seem to think he'll be, they should have no trouble dumping him.



I highly doubt they'll choose to retain Mills. It just doesn't make much sense to me. Plus, I do know the coaches haven't been thrilled with his progression since 14' in other areas of the game outside of shooting.

Agree with how crazy it is for some to say Larpo is a future six man replacement or saying he has value because of how strong he is and how he can protect the ball well (may as well go the nearest fitness expo and teach the strongest guy how to dribble the ball up the court then).

Agree all camp invites like Forbes, Arci, Larpo and Garino are long shots to be NBA players -- especially rotation ones. It's hilarious to see some people try to compare these undrafted guys to proven NBA starters and role players. And then thinking these undrafted players will be able to carve out a role sooner than Murray. Its mind boggling how some posters think so highly of these undrafted players. They are like the new girls in school -- all fives in the objective eyes but they look like 8 or 9's to some guys only because they are new.

The front office's track record suggests they usually keep people as well liked as Mills, at least until they're finished.

If the alternative is going with all unproven guards behind Parker and Green, then why even sign Aldridge and Gasol?

They signed them because they wanted to continue to attempt to contend. That's not happening with an entire bench comprised of young, unproven players, who aren't exactly considered world beaters as prospects.



None of these guys are a lock for anything at this point, but it's also silly to think they just pick random guys, IMO. I'm fairly sure there's a plan somewhere for each one of these guys that might pan out or not. Especially when you're talking about guys that are not your average d-leaguers looking for a shot, but guys that have played in different leagues professionally already (which the Spurs seem to prefer).

Time will tell, obviously.

Of course not. Teams obviously pick players they like and hope to develop into NBA players, but I doubt Laprovitolla has anything to do with Mills' future.

[SAGirl]

What "other guys"?

The other guys I am talking about are Pau (who has a player option and can opt out of his contract for more $) and Dedmon (who has another player option and is more likely to opt out of his own contract bc he accepted a very small deal). They both have more rare skills and difficult to acquire talents than Mills. I would prioritize re-signing them than Mills all things considered. As I said, he really is not that irrepleaceable and in the absence of Manu next season they may even prefer to go with a guard who has more playmaking ability than Mills has for their bench. In addition to that there is the possibility they want to just move Tony to the bench and sign someone else to start. There are any number of ways they can spin things next summer that really do not include prioritizing Mills and his $ demands. I think they have in their minds a figure they are willing to pay him (considering other guys they want to sign, Pau/Dedmon, cap etc) as well as taking into account wage increases for guys they want to retain in a couple of seasons (at least one of Anderson or Bertans) and Mills may command a figure that exceeds what they project to afford. It's really very easy to see why he could be gone in the summer.

Edit: But I will backpedal a bit bc the whole thread is about Laprovitolla. I am not saying he makes Mills expendable. The whole paragraph above ^ is about the offseason and takes into account a lot of other scenarios and players, not Laprovitolla specifically. With him, it seems the Spurs are looking at a 3rd string PG at this point, bc they maybe want to give Murray time in the dleague to learn and don't want to keep him in the deep bench (thus not playing unlesss it's garbage time, but also not getting better). They could afford to do that for Anderson (let him gobble up as many minutes as he could in the dleague his first season) bc Marco was in the team and it helped Kyle a ton bc his improvement from season 1 to 2 was noticeable in all categories. They likely want to do the same for Murray, not bc they think he sucks or anything, but rather bc they see a lot of potential in him and want to get him as many minutes as possible so he can work on his game and weak areas, and he won't get to do that as a deep bench reserve, where he will likely play off the ball and off other ppl, when they want him to develop his ballhandling, decision making, give him a green light to shoot within the offense, etc.

Although I like Garino for that 15th spot, it may really come down to one of the 3 guards depending what they see in them, and Laprovitolla has the experience they may want in case there is rest, or injuries and they need someone. Last season they were disappointed in Ray Mac and I bet they don't want to put Murray under the same pressure to produce in a single season since he's that much younger, Ray Mac at least had 2 seasons in the league, Murray does not.

[sasaint]

Campazzo seems like a more NBA ready prospect. I am not sure if Laprovittola can play at the speed the NBA is played right now. Surely in the Olympics had a lot of trouble from time to time.
Anyways, i am not sure this report is right, i don´t see the Spurs bringing in Laprovittola to compete with Murray (Guaranteed), Mills (Guaranteed) and Tony (Guaranteed). I´d say he will come only if one of those players is traded for a pick, or combined with another player (Simmons, Anderson) for one player.

How did Lapro perform in the Olympics? I failed to turn up his stats. I did notice that he shot .456 and .457 from 3 in the Brazilian league the last two seasons.

[gambit1990]

who's gonna sign campazzo?

[ElNono]

According to some Argie media, it's not just the Spurs that are after him, but also the Bucks and Wolves. Apparently he'll be flying to Texas in a couple of days though, to meet with the Spurs...

[99 Problems]

:lobt2:




:lobt2: VI

[Chinook]

People begging PATFO to cut LJC for UDFAs...

It's one of the strangest developments on ST this summer. Dude is locked up under team control for two to nine years. Plenty of time to see what he has, and instead people are worried about low-ceiling guys. Livio may never amount to anything, but he's definitely a better play than the runner-up of this competition between the 15th-18th guys in camp.

It's like people are so used to "Spurs players" that they are struggling with the idea of the team actually developing a prospect.

[spurs10]

People begging PATFO to cut LJC for UDFAs...

It's one of the strangest developments on ST this summer. Dude is locked up under team control for two to nine years. Plenty of time to see what he has, and instead people are worried about low-ceiling guys. Livio may never amount to anything, but he's definitely a better play than the runner-up of this competition between the 15th-18th guys in camp.

It's like people are so used to "Spurs players" that they are struggling with the idea of the team actually developing a prospect. It will be interesting how they develop LJC and Bertans. Are they both more natural at the 4? I heard Bertans say PATFO wanted him at the 4.

[Mnky]

I don't find it so hilarious bc Mills himself was barely an NBA prospect. He was drafted 55 and was out of the league. He was basically a rescue pet project by the Spurs and as Pop said: "a little fat ass" Credit to himself for whipping himself into shape, but all these guys are about the same possibly as the Mills when he was 22 years old.

This.

Everyone starts somewhere. Not all good players come from the first round. International players are the likeliest to surprise as they don't have much evidence either way.

[GSH]

People begging PATFO to cut LJC for UDFAs...

It's one of the strangest developments on ST this summer. Dude is locked up under team control for two to nine years. Plenty of time to see what he has, and instead people are worried about low-ceiling guys. Livio may never amount to anything, but he's definitely a better play than the runner-up of this competition between the 15th-18th guys in camp.

It's like people are so used to "Spurs players" that they are struggling with the idea of the team actually developing a prospect.


Perfect! That's just about how long it took Mahinmi to become a legit NBA player. Of course, Mahanmi has a pretty serious size and strength advantage over LJC, but NBA bigs don't necessarily have to be big. Let's meet back here in 2026, and you can tell us all, "I told you so."

Personally, I look at Dedmon as a legit "prospect" that the Spurs are going to be assessing and developing. Maybe LJC, six years out? Except that he also has NBA size and strength that LJC does not. Dedmon hasn't done a whole lot yet, but he has shown signs of being able to. What I saw out of LJC, I wouldn't devote a roster spot to - and a lot of other people saw about the same. You can make all the snarky comments you want, but you aren't the only person to ever watch young basketball players before.

[Chinook]

Perfect! That's just about how long it took Mahinmi to become a legit NBA player. Of course, Mahanmi has a pretty serious size and strength advantage over LJC, but NBA bigs don't necessarily have to be big. Let's meet back here in 2026, and you can tell us all, "I told you so."

Personally, I look at Dedmon as a legit "prospect" that the Spurs are going to be assessing and developing. Maybe LJC, six years out? Except that he also has NBA size and strength that LJC does not. Dedmon hasn't done a whole lot yet, but he has shown signs of being able to. What I saw out of LJC, I wouldn't devote a roster spot to - and a lot of other people saw about the same. You can make all the snarky comments you want, but you aren't the only person to ever watch young basketball players before.

:rolleyes

That pretty much has nothing to do with what I said. None of that justifies picking two UDFAs over him. It might take time to develop him? Most NBA teams don't have 15 live spots, and as the Spurs continue to move away from the Big Three, that will become more obvious.

And 26-year-old Dedmon is a rotation player (who was a d-leauger three years ago), not a prospect. LJC would likely be the third- or fourth-youngest player on the team. They aren't even remotely comparable.

[Solid D]

It's like people are so used to "Spurs players" that they are struggling with the idea of the team actually developing a prospect.

Speaking of player development, have you or anyone else here seen/heard anything further re: Monty Williams? The Spurs lost one of their better PD resources in Chad Forcier. Monty could certainly fill that role as well as provide defensive tactical support for the coaching staff.

[kaji157]

How did Lapro perform in the Olympics? I failed to turn up his stats. I did notice that he shot .456 and .457 from 3 in the Brazilian league the last two seasons.

He did OK, but was unplayable in some key games. Got injured in one ankle so the stats may be tainted.

To put it short, he is a Good 3pt shooter PG, a bit of a ball hog in my view considering his real scoring abilities, he tends to shoot to much for how good he is. Good passer, not great, good size for his position, average defense and speed.

[Kikoluna]

Here's an idea, what if we give him Kyle's minutes!

[kaji157]

People begging PATFO to cut LJC for UDFAs...

It's one of the strangest developments on ST this summer. Dude is locked up under team control for two to nine years. Plenty of time to see what he has, and instead people are worried about low-ceiling guys. Livio may never amount to anything, but he's definitely a better play than the runner-up of this competition between the 15th-18th guys in camp.

It's like people are so used to "Spurs players" that they are struggling with the idea of the team actually developing a prospect.

Chinook the problem i have with Livio as a prospect is that he has shown NOTHING, granted, he is tied with us for us for a potential 8 year period, but other than that he has not shown he can shine either at france´s level nor europe second tier tournament (Euro Cup). Plus, he is being asked to play a position he has been even worse at the 3 spot.
So while i agree with you, Bertans and Laprovittola are right now, FAR more accomplished players than Livio, and you could also say the same about Garino.

[GSH]

:rolleyes

That pretty much has nothing to do with what I said. None of that justifies picking two UDFAs over him. It might take time to develop him? Most NBA teams don't have 15 live spots, and as the Spurs continue to move away from the Big Three, that will become more obvious.

And 26-year-old Dedmon is a rotation player (who was a d-leauger three years ago), not a prospect. LJC would likely be the third- or fourth-youngest player on the team. They aren't even remotely comparable.


You think he's got the goods to be "developed". I don't. Since the Spurs are keeping him, I guess we'll see which one is right. If it's you, I'll say so. If it's me, you'll make some freaking excuse.

If you want to play semantics games over "prospect", go play with yourself. A prospect isn't just a guy who is shitty now - he also has to show reasons to think he will become a good player. We THINK Dedmon will be good for the Spurs. But no one knows how he will do in Pop's defensive rotations, or whether he will be a guy who can (and will) do all the "little things" like Fabbs or Tiago, on the offensive end. The simple fact is that he was a 12 minute guy on a crappy Orlando team. (His minutes actually went down last season, compared to the season before.) He's a guy that is worth investing time in, because he looks like he could develop into a good player. If you want to define "prospect" as a guy who looks like TOTAL shit, but might develop to become third-tier filler? Well, LJC is your guy. But that's not a prospect, it's just a failed stash experiment. He looked good at the U-20's, but he's had four years to develop and he doesn't look like he's in the same league as the grown men. Just like a shitload of guys who can't make the jump from D-League to the NBA. Failed experiment, cut losses, move on.

All teams don't have 15 live roster spots? You're right. But good teams do. If I remember, you're one of the ones who has insisted that the Spurs are still going to be good this year. Pick a side.

[TD 21]

The other guys I am talking about are Pau (who has a player option and can opt out of his contract for more $) and Dedmon (who has another player option and is more likely to opt out of his own contract bc he accepted a very small deal). They both have more rare skills and difficult to acquire talents than Mills. I would prioritize re-signing them than Mills all things considered. As I said, he really is not that irrepleaceable and in the absence of Manu next season they may even prefer to go with a guard who has more playmaking ability than Mills has for their bench. In addition to that there is the possibility they want to just move Tony to the bench and sign someone else to start. There are any number of ways they can spin things next summer that really do not include prioritizing Mills and his $ demands. I think they have in their minds a figure they are willing to pay him (considering other guys they want to sign, Pau/Dedmon, cap etc) as well as taking into account wage increases for guys they want to retain in a couple of seasons (at least one of Anderson or Bertans) and Mills may command a figure that exceeds what they project to afford. It's really very easy to see why he could be gone in the summer.

Gasol will more than likely end his career a Spur. Expect him to either opt in or opt out and re-sign, with a slight increase, on a 2 year contract, with a possible player option.

Dedmon, barring a debilitating injury, is a virtual lock to opt out and get a massive raise. I suspect he's the one they're most likely to not break the bank for.

They obviously need a play making guard to replace Ginobili, but they also need a shooter/scorer type and as long as the former is big and strong enough to defend shooting guards, they can pair with Mills.

The only Parker upgrade, who might be legitimately available in free agency, is Holiday. He'd be a good fit, but I question whether they'll want to commit what it would take to sign a guard, who's had serious injuries the previous 3 seasons and is good but not great.

[cd021]

His future here is to take up a spot on the roster that would otherwise go to a real basketball prospect that might actually develop. But, the Spurs will keep LJC and gift another team a Forbes or Garino or Lapro or Simmons and get nothing in return, ultimately to dump LJC for nothing either.

My god man, given him two years and see how he looks then before complaining. Posters on ST were calling Cojo a scrub and he's one of the best backup PGs in the league now. Posters are calling KA trash but he is significantly ahead of where Cojo was at the same point in their careers. Point being you have to give a prospect time to try and prove that he can play before saying with certainty that he can't

[cd021]

They can easily retain Mills, if they so choose.

A lot can change in a year, but to say right now that some camp invite is a future replacement for a sixth man, is ridiculous. All camp invites are long shots to be NBA players period, let alone rotation ones. If one of them is on the team in '17-'18, they'll have done well.

Also, having an entire bench of fringe young players, is a good way to piss off Aldridge and to a lesser extent Gasol. Doing so will only make it more difficult to lure the next significant free agent.

They can easily retain him but I doubt that they will. I think Dedmon could have a good season and most of the Spurs cap ( I expect Gasol to opt in, leaving about $10 million) to go to him and I also think they are interested in bringing Simmons back but resigning Mills would likely mean that they lose both Ded and Simmons.

[cd021]

It will be interesting how they develop LJC and Bertans. Are they both more natural at the 4? I heard Bertans say PATFO wanted him at the 4.

I see Bertans as a tall 3 and KA as a 4. Anderson has the tools to a good stretch 4; he has a perimeter game ( excellent mid range shooter, but needs to work on his 3pt range), can post up smaller players ( which means teams may not be able to go small to counter him playing the 4) and has good handles and court vision along with being a good defensive rebounder.

[dabom]

They can easily retain him but I doubt that they will. I think Dedmon could have a good season and most of the Spurs cap ( I expect Gasol to opt in, leaving about $10 million) to go to him and I also think they are interested in bringing Simmons back but resigning Mills would likely mean that they lose both Ded and Simmons.

Those 2 guys are trash compared to Mills.

[dabom]

I see Bertans as a tall 3 and KA as a 4. Anderson has the tools to a good stretch 4; he has a perimeter game ( excellent mid range shooter, but needs to work on his 3pt range), can post up smaller players ( which means teams may not be able to go small to counter him playing the 4) and has good handles and court vision along with being a good defensive rebounder.

Basically none of this. WTF?? :lmao

[dabom]

Fathead is one of the worst offensive players on this fucking team. And I have yet to see him get a contested rebound. :lmao

[dabom]

And SAGirl I'm not trying to fuck with you. I just think fathead is terrible on this team.

[sasaint]

My god man, given him two years and see how he looks then before complaining. Posters on ST were calling Cojo a scrub and he's one of the best backup PGs in the league now. Posters are calling KA trash but he is significantly ahead of where Cojo was at the same point in their careers. Point being you have to give a prospect time to try and prove that he can play before saying with certainty that he can't

No doubt we will have a couple of years to see LJC. Based on what I have seen of him, though, he looks like a very good athlete who has few basketball skills and less understanding of the game. I don't think any of the big college basketball programs would offer him a scholarship at this point. Actually paying the guy to play seems ludicrous. I realize it is comparing apples and oranges, but Cojo looked much more like a basketball player - even if he did look like a scrub! :lol

We shall see...

[gambit1990]

this isn't official yet?

[cd021]

No doubt we will have a couple of years to see LJC. Based on what I have seen of him, though, he looks like a very good athlete who has few basketball skills and less understanding of the game. I don't think any of the big college basketball programs would offer him a scholarship at this point. Actually paying the guy to play seems ludicrous. I realize it is comparing apples and oranges, but Cojo looked much more like a basketball player - even if he did look like a scrub! :lol

We shall see...

I see it as a prospect making next to nothing with a chance to develop into a rotation player down the road if everything goes well. If he stays a Spur the entire length of his deal, the Spurs would only pay out about $3.9 million over the next four years, with a chance that he can outperform that investment. Spurs have spent years filling up the end of the bench with aging vets and now they have prospects that they can develop for cheaper and have a potential to have upside.

As for Cojo, there were flashes but it wasn't until year 4 that I was convinced that he was a full time rotation NBA player.

[sasaint]

I see it as a prospect making next to nothing with a chance to develop into a rotation player down the road if everything goes well. If he stays a Spur the entire length of his deal, the Spurs would only pay out about $3.9 million over the next four years, with a chance that he can outperform that investment. Spurs have spent years filling up the end of the bench with aging vets and now they have prospects that they can develop for cheaper and have a potential to have upside.

As for Cojo, there were flashes but it wasn't until year 4 that I was convinced that he was a full time rotation NBA player.

Yes, keeping Bonner as long as we did AND filling the 15th spot with an old vet hampered the Spurs' player development for years. Admittedly, young 14th and 15th men on the roster are not going to have any real, immediate impact. In some sense all of the guys the Spurs have vying for those slots this year are a crap shoot. I just fear that we will make the wrong choice, send a decent prospect to Austin, and see Bud or somebody snatch him out from under us, while we keep LJC, who I just don't see becoming an NBA-level player. The opportunity cost of keeping LJC and retaining Bonner the last few years is essentially the same, imo.

[T Park]

Speaking of player development, have you or anyone else here seen/heard anything further re: Monty Williams? The Spurs lost one of their better PD resources in Chad Forcier. Monty could certainly fill that role as well as provide defensive tactical support for the coaching staff.



I believe he is hired and on the coaching staff. Olympics broadcast spoke about it many times.

[Sean Cagney]

And SAGirl I'm not trying to fuck with you. I just think fathead is terrible on this team.

Everytime I read fat head I still bust out fucking laughing :lol I am not a fan of his really.

[buttsR4rebounding]

There is a good chance that the Spurs lose Mills 2 years ago if he doesn't have a torn rotator cuff.

[Obstructed_View]

Perfect! That's just about how long it took Mahinmi to become a legit NBA player. Of course, Mahanmi has a pretty serious size and strength advantage over LJC, but NBA bigs don't necessarily have to be big.

Mahinmi was pretty good in summer league when he was with the Spurs. He was one of the top centers his rookie year, and he shut down Demarcus Cousins and nearly made him cry the next year. Everyone with a brain knew Mahinmi could play. The question was could he stop fouling. The answer was no, which is why he could never play for Pop, even today. If LJC showed a fraction of that then people might be excited to have him on the roster, but he topped last year, where he had more personal fouls than rebounds with this year's performance, where he had more turnovers and personal fouls than rebounds.

[Obstructed_View]

My god man, given him two years and see how he looks then before complaining. Posters on ST were calling Cojo a scrub and he's one of the best backup PGs in the league now. Posters are calling KA trash but he is significantly ahead of where Cojo was at the same point in their careers. Point being you have to give a prospect time to try and prove that he can play before saying with certainty that he can't

Joseph was one of the best players in North America in high school, and he was one of the best players in the country his freshman year in college. The only reason he fell to the Spurs is because he came out a year early. People who said he was a scrub are fucking morons.

After watching him have more fouls than boards last year, and then watching him come back this summer to have more fouls AND turnovers than rebounds, it's starting to look more and more like LJC had the game of his life at the Nike Hoops Summit in 2013.

[cd021]

Yes, keeping Bonner as long as we did AND filling the 15th spot with an old vet hampered the Spurs' player development for years. Admittedly, young 14th and 15th men on the roster are not going to have any real, immediate impact. In some sense all of the guys the Spurs have vying for those slots this year are a crap shoot. I just fear that we will make the wrong choice, send a decent prospect to Austin, and see Bud or somebody snatch him out from under us, while we keep LJC, who I just don't see becoming an NBA-level player. The opportunity cost of keeping LJC and retaining Bonner the last few years is essentially the same, imo.

I see your point but the Spurs made a commitment when they drafted in him the first round. His development was much slower than expected, especially after tearing his ACL after getting drafted and playing mediocre ball the two seasons afterward. He may never be worthy of a first rounder but the Spurs can't just preemptively cut him before they know for sure; for all we know, in three seasons he may be a top 12 player for the Spurs and the season after (year 5) maybe he cracks the top 10 in the rotation.

As for Forbes, Arci, and Garino. I would have assumed the 15th would have went to Garino but this signing may point to otherwise. If Garino gets cut then me will likely go oversees while Forbes and Arci may play for the Spurs in the D League. They could be stolen (called up) by another team but if they are on the D league Spurs, the smarter move may be to play out next season and see how the Spurs roster situation looks.

I could see Mills being let to walk and, with Manu retiring and maybe the Spurs moving on from David Lee (depending on KA's development as a 4 and the status of Milutinov. That could mean two or three open roster spots (depending also on whether the '17 draft pick is a stash or not). In that event Forbes or Arci could still be a Spur.

[cd021]

Joseph was one of the best players in North America in high school, and he was one of the best players in the country his freshman year in college. The only reason he fell to the Spurs is because he came out a year early. People who said he was a scrub are fucking morons.

After watching him have more fouls than boards last year, and then watching him come back this summer to have more fouls AND turnovers than rebounds, it's starting to look more and more like LJC had the game of his life at the Nike Hoops Summit in 2013.

Entirely possible LJC doesn't pan out but the point is that posters on ST are already calling for him to be cut. He may be two years away from looking like an NBA player, if he ever does, but the Spurs are going to have him on the roster either way for at least that long to see how he develops. Maybe he progresses year to year and by Year 4 is an Al Aminu type of player and the Spurs would have the ability to lock him up on a long term deal. Judging a prospect so soon accomplishes nothing.

[gambit1990]

Entirely possible LJC doesn't pan out but the point is that posters on ST are already calling for him to be cut. He may be two years away from looking like an NBA player, if he ever does, but the Spurs are going to have him on the roster either way for at least that long to see how he develops. Maybe he progresses year to year and by Year 4 is an Al Aminu type of player and the Spurs would have the ability to lock him up on a long term deal. Judging a prospect so soon accomplishes nothing.
:lol

[kaji157]

Right now LJC Ceiling is Human Victory Cigarette

[Chinook]

You think he's got the goods to be "developed". I don't. Since the Spurs are keeping him, I guess we'll see which one is right. If it's you, I'll say so. If it's me, you'll make some freaking excuse.

It's really hard to refute that a risk makes sense or not. There are reasons independent of their current level of play to put LJC above the second-best of the UDFAs. But this whole, "He'll be Ian in nine years" argument sucks. You know who won't be Ian in nine years? The UDFAs. If LJC is going to be a starting-level big in nine years, sign me the fuck up. But if he's even going to be a fifth big/energy type in his fourth season like Ian was for Dallas, that's more than worth keeping him.


If you want to play semantics games over "prospect", go play with yourself.

:lol It's not semantics. Dedmon is being signed to be the backup center. LJC wasn't brought in to be in the rotation this year and probably not next. If Dedmon fails, the Spurs are in a hole; if Livio fails, no one cares except people like you trying to PMS on people you disagreed with. That is the difference between a rotation player and a low-level prospect. Get over it.

Now is Dedmon a question mark? Yes. He has to fit a role that's been mainly projected, same as Anderson. But those guys are going to be in the rotation. The team isn't just hoping they "develop"'; they NEED them to.


All teams don't have 15 live roster spots? You're right. But good teams do. If I remember, you're one of the ones who has insisted that the Spurs are still going to be good this year. Pick a side.

No they fucking don't. The Warriors carried Looney all year last season despite him being hurt. They're doing the same thing with Jones this season. The Cavs picked up Liggins and McRae last season. OKC had Huestis. The Raptors had Bruno. It's simply not true that teams care about having 15th men who are rotation-calibre. They don't, really, because most don't rest their starters like the Spurs do.

You want to bitch about LJC? Be my guest. But it's idiotic to try to force d-leaguers on the roster ahead of him before he's even had a training camp. Is he likely to bust? Yes, on virtue of being a late-first, and on him already having a major injury and on him being 22 and not established yet. But expecting him to be Dedmon in order to call him worthy is just out of touch with the reality of NBA projects and the Spurs' situation. You need to address that before you go around trying to put folks on blast.

[Obstructed_View]

Entirely possible LJC doesn't pan out but the point is that posters on ST are already calling for him to be cut. He may be two years away from looking like an NBA player, if he ever does, but the Spurs are going to have him on the roster either way for at least that long to see how he develops. Maybe he progresses year to year and by Year 4 is an Al Aminu type of player and the Spurs would have the ability to lock him up on a long term deal. Judging a prospect so soon accomplishes nothing.

First off, you're almost certainly right that the Spurs are going to stand pat. It's what they do. The counterpoint to your post above is that the typical "he sucks, get rid of him" people aren't the only ones on ST saying he stinks. Judging a prospect so soon after signing him accomplishes a lot, but only if the team can bring in a useful player now. Otherwise there's plenty of time to evaluate him, and they can get rid of him almost at any point by any method.

I'm not sure I agree with your predictions being anything other than wildly optimistic. Let's say he takes 2 to 4 years to become Al Farouq Aminu, which means he grows two inches and is ready to average a timely 10 and 6 off the bench. Some people, including me, would say that it's not worth the roster spot for a guy who might look like an NBA player someday if (again IF) there's someone good that the Spurs can have in his place. Maybe we haven't reached that point yet, and it's looking like the Spurs might be moving someone. This could get interesting, though it probably won't.

I didn't say Joseph should be cut. I defended him. I didn't say Mahinmi was trash. I defended him. But I watched all three players in summer league, and it looks that LJC may be two years from looking like a D league player. Mahinmi's PER in summer league was 15. LJC's was 3. There is simply no comparison. Jean-Charles has not been rough, or a work in progress, he has pretty much sucked against summer league talent for two years, something decent NBA players don't often do.

Also have to remember that he's only 6'9". The reality is that by year 4 he's a Jeff Ayres type player. That may not be why people on ST think he's potentially less valuable than his roster spot, but it's damn sure why I think so. As I said, it's really unlikely to come up.

[sasaint]

I see your point but the Spurs made a commitment when they drafted in him the first round. His development was much slower than expected, especially after tearing his ACL after getting drafted and playing mediocre ball the two seasons afterward. He may never be worthy of a first rounder but the Spurs can't just preemptively cut him before they know for sure; for all we know, in three seasons he may be a top 12 player for the Spurs and the season after (year 5) maybe he cracks the top 10 in the rotation.

As for Forbes, Arci, and Garino. I would have assumed the 15th would have went to Garino but this signing may point to otherwise. If Garino gets cut then me will likely go oversees while Forbes and Arci may play for the Spurs in the D League. They could be stolen (called up) by another team but if they are on the D league Spurs, the smarter move may be to play out next season and see how the Spurs roster situation looks.

I could see Mills being let to walk and, with Manu retiring and maybe the Spurs moving on from David Lee (depending on KA's development as a 4 and the status of Milutinov. That could mean two or three open roster spots (depending also on whether the '17 draft pick is a stash or not). In that event Forbes or Arci could still be a Spur.

In your eyes, what kind of commitment have the Spurs made that hasn't been fulfilled by signing him to a guaranteed contract? He is guaranteed more money this season than most people will ever earn, and he can go ply his trade in Europe and continue to make a good living.

As for your projections for the 2017-18 season, they are fairly optimistic regarding Forbes and Garino - possibly even Arci. Not every free agent is so committed to playing for the Spurs that they would decline another offer to remain in Austin or Europe.

As I suggested earlier, LJC wouldn't even see the floor for Kentucky or Duke or Carolina. Why in the world would he play in the NBA. His opportunity cost to the Spurs is too high. Ignoring (for the moment) the 4 or 5 guys vying for the 15th spot, I bet there are several young guys who get waived by other teams in training camp who would be much better than LJC.

[dabom]

Everytime I read fat head I still bust out fucking laughing :lol I am not a fan of his really.

A lot of big heads don't like Fathead. :lol

[sasaint]

There is a good chance that the Spurs lose Mills 2 years ago if he doesn't have a torn rotator cuff.

Very true. I hope the Spurs decide NOW whether they will pay to bring him back. If they bring him back, I am fine with that. But if they aren't willing to pay him, then trade him now when his value is very high after his performance in Rio. What I don't want is for Patty to walk and the Spurs get nothing for him.

[SAGirl]

There is a good chance that the Spurs lose Mills 2 years ago if he doesn't have a torn rotator cuff.
That's true and he hasn't had a good pay day. Neither have Dedmon or Simmons for that matter. Spurs need to evaluate after the season is over which direction they are heading. Obviously how guys played RS and playoffs will matter but also how they want to build the team and who they want to prioritize.

[cd021]

First off, you're almost certainly right that the Spurs are going to stand pat. It's what they do. The counterpoint to your post above is that the typical "he sucks, get rid of him" people aren't the only ones on ST saying he stinks. Judging a prospect so soon after signing him accomplishes a lot, but only if the team can bring in a useful player now. Otherwise there's plenty of time to evaluate him, and they can get rid of him almost at any point by any method.

I'm not sure I agree with your predictions being anything other than wildly optimistic. Let's say he takes 2 to 4 years to become Al Farouq Aminu, which means he grows two inches and is ready to average a timely 10 and 6 off the bench. Some people, including me, would say that it's not worth the roster spot for a guy who might look like an NBA player someday if (again IF) there's someone good that the Spurs can have in his place. Maybe we haven't reached that point yet, and it's looking like the Spurs might be moving someone. This could get interesting, though it probably won't.

I didn't say Joseph should be cut. I defended him. I didn't say Mahinmi was trash. I defended him. But I watched all three players in summer league, and it looks that LJC may be two years from looking like a D league player. Mahinmi's PER in summer league was 15. LJC's was 3. There is simply no comparison. Jean-Charles has not been rough, or a work in progress, he has pretty much sucked against summer league talent for two years, something decent NBA players don't often do.

Also have to remember that he's only 6'9". The reality is that by year 4 he's a Jeff Ayres type player. That may not be why people on ST think he's potentially less valuable than his roster spot, but it's damn sure why I think so. As I said, it's really unlikely to come up.

I mention Aminu as a comp which is probably on the high side for LJC. My point is that the Spurs invested a 1st on him, he is being payed next to nothing by NBA standards for the next two seasons, after that his contract isn't guaranteed. If the Spurs don't see him progressing how they like after two years they can cut bait but doing so now would be silly.

Point taken on the minority of ST and how they talk about prospects, its a pet peeve of mine. I had my doubts about Cojo, though I could see NBA skills. He didn't seem to be able to put it all together until year 4, by then the same people who were calling him D-Leagues were saying that he should have been kept over Mills.

[ceperez]

In your eyes, what kind of commitment have the Spurs made that hasn't been fulfilled by signing him to a guaranteed contract? He is guaranteed more money this season than most people will ever earn, and he can go ply his trade in Europe and continue to make a good living.

As for your projections for the 2017-18 season, they are fairly optimistic regarding Forbes and Garino - possibly even Arci. Not every free agent is so committed to playing for the Spurs that they would decline another offer to remain in Austin or Europe.

As I suggested earlier, LJC wouldn't even see the floor for Kentucky or Duke or Carolina. Why in the world would he play in the NBA. His opportunity cost to the Spurs is too high. Ignoring (for the moment) the 4 or 5 guys vying for the 15th spot, I bet there are several young guys who get waived by other teams in training camp who would be much better than LJC.

LJC hasn't done well is summer league this season, he did better last year though until he was taken out due to injury.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here because PATFO obviously thought him valuable enough to sign him to a rookie contract. He's got elite level athleticism that I am guessing is the reason PATFO have been so high on him. What I wonder though is that I thought he was more like a SF, but it seems that he's going to play PF.

[sasaint]

LJC hasn't done well is summer league this season, he did better last year though until he was taken out due to injury.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here because PATFO obviously thought him valuable enough to sign him to a rookie contract. He's got elite level athleticism that I am guessing is the reason PATFO have been so high on him. What I wonder though is that I thought he was more like a SF, but it seems that he's going to play PF.

I am not exactly giving PATFO the benefit of the doubt, but as a Spurs fan, I hope I am wrong about LJC. In today's NBA of "positionless basketball" I think he is PF-ish but projects to get a little time against some larger SFs and possibly even play some small ball C.

[SAGirl]

Gasol will more than likely end his career a Spur. Expect him to either opt in or opt out and re-sign, with a slight increase, on a 2 year contract, with a possible player option.

Dedmon, barring a debilitating injury, is a virtual lock to opt out and get a massive raise. I suspect he's the one they're most likely to not break the bank for.

They obviously need a play making guard to replace Ginobili, but they also need a shooter/scorer type and as long as the former is big and strong enough to defend shooting guards, they can pair with Mills.

The only Parker upgrade, who might be legitimately available in free agency, is Holiday. He'd be a good fit, but I question whether they'll want to commit what it would take to sign a guard, who's had serious injuries the previous 3 seasons and is good but not great.

Let's just say I really don't think Mills is a guy they should prioritize. He will command salary for a 6th man and won't be worth it, unless the cap keeps rising at this astronomic rate. Maybe it will continue to do that and all this coversation will become ridiculous and academic, but since you are mentioning it will only rise once more, then that raises my concerns with Mills.

When Manu was the 6h man, he carried scrubs. You'd give him a semblance of teammates and he'd make them better and make himself go. Mills last season had a terrific bench with an aged but still productive Manu, his friend Bobo and Dwest. When Manu went down for parts of the season, the guy who increased his production and was coming up with 4-7 assists a game was Anderson. That's just the truth. He was the one setting others and Mills up. He was also the best bench rebounder, drew the assignment on the most difficult targets, came up with 3-5 steals some games, and a block. He was the best all around player in the bench for most of the games when Manu was out. Sure there were times that Mills got hot and had a productive 20+ point shooting night and outscored Anderson but no one who is not an Anderson hater will tell you Mills was the best player of the two. And then there were all those 1-7 or 2-11 shooting nights for Mills and when those happen, he doesn't give you anything else. In the OKC series he had the ball in his hands most posessions and averaged 4 PPG and the bench struggled to score, that's bc he doesn't draw a double team, and doesn't draw fouls since he doesn't get in the paint.

Sure, I like Mills well enough. He's short and bc of that won't present a decent contest on anybody, and tall bench guards like Jamal Crawford, Austin Rivers, Livingston and even others who have less size but are more athletic can overpower him, post him up, blow by him, etc. But I like his effort and due to that, he comes up with loose balls that others deflect and comes up with rebounds when others box out, bc he's not lazily ball-watching the action and he keeps active. I like that. His energy is maybe what separates Mills from many other tiny SG like Cotton. I'd keep him but not if he's overpriced. That is where I have issues. Like so many guys who got overpriced this past summer he won't produce enough for a high contract, and I'd hate it if the overpayment of Mills then makes them lose on someone else (the opportunity cost part of my argument), or if they then have to dump his contract like they did Diaw's and Tiago's because they decide to move on in a different direction the following summer after they rewarded him with his contract.

Since I have my favorites just like everyone else I will put this out there and let the hate brigade do their thing, since they do their thing anyways. The guy the Spurs need to prioritize retaining is Anderson in 2 seasons. He's looked like the guy who can make others better, who will find cutters, who will throw lobs to energy guys who run ahead, who will craft his own shot under duress and who will draw fouls deceptively when the team is in a scoring drought. He is 6'9" rebounds well, defends well, has a high BBIQ and was barely 22 this season. He's far from his prime and will continue to get better and will still be far from his prime at the start of his post rookie contract, which means he will likely be worth his contract health permitting, and might outperform it too. Spurs can at least engage his agent this next summer about an extension. I don't think they will sign him to one, bc they probably want to retain the roster flexibility, but he will get paid in 2 seasons. Playmaking forwards, who rebound, defend and shoot a 3 are at a premium nowadays. Kyle can make the bench work with any Forbes' like shooter. You don't need to overpay guys like Mills if you have Kyle. That's how I see it. Part of the reason Kyle hasn't repeated his SL performances in the big leagues is that the ball is not in his hands, the system is not about him, he plays off other ppl, and he was being made to earn his role. Which has worked out for the Spurs, bc Kawhi did the same. He didn't come in and in his first real season with the team was given the ball and told to go to work. He was instead allowed to become a better shooter and better overall player playing off other people b4 he was thrown into that role and the same is true for Kyle. Spurs are allowing him to improve in every facet b4 he's really thrown into the fray like that but he's grown up as a player in just a single season and is still developing. Sure, there are still ladders he needs to climb to but at 22, he can climb them. Mills is pretty much in his prime already and will remain the same. If overpaying Mills then places the Spurs in a spot that they can't retain their young players the following offseason then I would pass on that (I'd throw Bertans there too, because it's possible that he's just as good of a shooter as Mills is and he's also younger, taller, with an overall higher ceiling--if only bc of his size. He just needs to remain healthy). But anyways, that's just me and everyone is allowed to have a favorite.

Now hate Trolls: Go! (just don't cite me bc I have you on ignore, you know who you are).

By the way, do you know who had a better playoffs than Mills as the 6th man off the bench? Cojo!

[dabom]

Fathead is a blackhole on offense. Like literally. when someone brings up fathead and a good offensive player, I can't take you serious.

And Mills isn't just some short shooter. He is an international player. He is worth his stock. Unlike all these other shitty guards. :lol

[SAGirl]

Very true. I hope the Spurs decide NOW whether they will pay to bring him back. If they bring him back, I am fine with that. But if they aren't willing to pay him, then trade him now when his value is very high after his performance in Rio. What I don't want is for Patty to walk and the Spurs get nothing for him.
He won't be traded in Manu's farewell tour. They were even sad to have to trade Diaw. I am starting to think he's re-signed, then goes the way of Diaw and Tiago, traded when the following season they want to move a different direction.

[sasaint]

He won't be traded in Manu's farewell tour. They were even sad to have to trade Diaw. I am starting to think he's re-signed, then goes the way of Diaw and Tiago, traded when the following season they want to move a different direction.

Could you explain how Manu's "farewell tour" renders Patty exempt from a trade? Also, you have either a much clearer crystal ball than I or great contacts within the Spurs' organization. Who was sad to have to trade Diaw? Pop was mad that he coasted all season - so mad that he finally benched him. But sad to trade him? Idk.

[TD 21]

They can easily retain him but I doubt that they will. I think Dedmon could have a good season and most of the Spurs cap ( I expect Gasol to opt in, leaving about $10 million) to go to him and I also think they are interested in bringing Simmons back but resigning Mills would likely mean that they lose both Ded and Simmons.

Dedmon is a fourth big; a role I don't see them spending big on.

Simmons is a fringe player. Maybe he establishes himself as more next season, but I don't see them spending big on a player that doesn't project as a top three wing and has some overlap with Murray.


Let's just say I really don't think Mills is a guy they should prioritize. He will command salary for a 6th man and won't be worth it, unless the cap keeps rising at this astronomic rate. Maybe it will continue to do that and all this coversation will become ridiculous and academic, but since you are mentioning it will only rise once more, then that raises my concerns with Mills.

When Manu was the 6h man, he carried scrubs. You'd give him a semblance of teammates and he'd make them better and make himself go. Mills last season had a terrific bench with an aged but still productive Manu, his friend Bobo and Dwest.

Mills is obviously a different kind of 6th man than Ginobili and that comparison, for obvious reasons, is foolish for any bench player. No one can truly replace Ginobili, of course, but they can sign Teodosic or Vasquez to fill the role short term and hopefully Murray can long term. Mills can work fine next to any.

I could understand not wanting to break the bank for Mills, but it can't just be assumed that some nobody like Forbes can replace him. Besides, the back court is already underwhelming. People get so caught up in "getting younger", but this is a franchise still trying to contend for championships. To do that, they're going to need more than three prime players and five proven commodities.

[sasaint]

SAGirl, you and I have seen eye-to-eye about Kyle from the beginning. Haters will still hate him when he is a 10/5/5 rotation player - perhaps even a starter. So, this one (like all of your Kyle write ups) is :tu. But I am not sure I agree with your assessment of Patty. You did see how he has bulked up, didn't you? I think that is likely to help him a lot on the defensive side of the ball. And on offense, he is a full season removed from shoulder surgery, and his shooting touch should be better than last season, his "recovery" year. I admit, though, that I hadn't really thought about Patty in light of Bertans' arrival. While Bertans might replace Patty's long range threat, he will not replace him as a ball-handler. Like it or not, he is still our de facto backup PG. And I haven't even touched on his leadership/locker room skill - especially on a team that is facing a leadership hole once Manu hangs 'em up. Really Patty and Kyle are the best leaders we have looking toward the future.

[spurraider21]

Joseph was one of the best players in North America in high school, and he was one of the best players in the country his freshman year in college. The only reason he fell to the Spurs is because he came out a year early. People who said he was a scrub are fucking morons.

After watching him have more fouls than boards last year, and then watching him come back this summer to have more fouls AND turnovers than rebounds, it's starting to look more and more like LJC had the game of his life at the Nike Hoops Summit in 2013.
:lol

[SAGirl]

I mention Aminu as a comp which is probably on the high side for LJC. My point is that the Spurs invested a 1st on him, he is being payed next to nothing by NBA standards for the next two seasons, after that his contract isn't guaranteed. If the Spurs don't see him progressing how they like after two years they can cut bait but doing so now would be silly.

Point taken on the minority of ST and how they talk about prospects, its a pet peeve of mine. I had my doubts about Cojo, though I could see NBA skills. He didn't seem to be able to put it all together until year 4, by then the same people who were calling him D-Leagues were saying that he should have been kept over Mills.
True.
I think the issue with LJC is that he stalled or regressed on his development. He doesn't peeve me personally bc he was a good prospect when he was picked. The 2013 draft was a crapshoot which required teams to do a lot of guesswork and pretty much everyone was a project of some sort. He was a high upside guy considering his size, athleticism, the Nike Hoop Summit 2013 and his age. He just didn't develop and one wonders about that. There are guys who fall on that category every season. They stand out at a young age when they are superior athletes (Anthony Bennet, Cliff Alexander, etc there are others), but they then don't develop any skill other than just being a tall athlete and that is not enough. Three years later guys of his generation have developed and he has not.

I hope he develops into at least a good roleplayer that can help the Spurs at some point while he's under contract, but he has a lot to work on. He is going to need to be more impactful defensively than he has been and needs at least a midrange shot (the last statement was per Becky).

[Play Boban]

Joseph was a 10.4 PPG scorer in college. 42.2% FG. :lol

[SAGirl]

Could you explain how Manu's "farewell tour" renders Patty exempt from a trade? Also, you have either a much clearer crystal ball than I or great contacts within the Spurs' organization. Who was sad to have to trade Diaw? Pop was mad that he coasted all season - so mad that he finally benched him. But sad to trade him? Idk.
Lol They reportedly wanted to keep Diaw and couldn't. I threw the sad part there, but they were not shopping him until they absolutely had to do that to get Gasol. I wouldn't think Mills would be exempted from a trade but I suspect that's how it is. That's a speculation. In reality you are right. Manu got himself a huge payday and if breaking in Murray or someone else instead of Mills is what's due for this season, he ought to be fine with that, but Pop and not altering chemistry and his yada, yada preference for continuity made me think they will try to keep Mills unless it becomes too onerous (salary demands and offers from other teams they are unwilling to match) or unless some team makes an outrageous offer like Mills and Simmons for Noel, Okafor or some surpluses young guy in one of the tanking teams somewhere who just have more young prospects than they know what to do with.

[SAGirl]

sasaint you make a good point about Mills. I agree with what you state about his leadership and the camaraderie that he fosters. Also, I agree he and Kyle have leadership qualities the team needs. The only thing that throws me up for a loop is really what kind of money are we talking about with him and really at that point how that affects the Spurs in the future. One cannot avoid the possibility at some point Tony is going to be benched. Are the Spurs going to start Mills? Is that why he's bulked up?

If he were a starter then the amount of his contract would be commensurate with his role and I won't say a peep. Are the Spurs a championship team with Mills starting? What about Dijon? Might not matter bc he's cheap right now and needs to develop, but there is just a lot there that can't be known right now. Maybe in the end that is why they won't consider a Mills trade, they want to let it all play out then make a choice, but as you said, in that case they will pay him whatever just to keep the asset. It may work out just fine depending on cap increases too.

A lot of this is really speculative at this point.

[Obstructed_View]

I mention Aminu as a comp which is probably on the high side for LJC. My point is that the Spurs invested a 1st on him, he is being payed next to nothing by NBA standards for the next two seasons, after that his contract isn't guaranteed. If the Spurs don't see him progressing how they like after two years they can cut bait but doing so now would be silly.

Point taken on the minority of ST and how they talk about prospects, its a pet peeve of mine. I had my doubts about Cojo, though I could see NBA skills. He didn't seem to be able to put it all together until year 4, by then the same people who were calling him D-Leagues were saying that he should have been kept over Mills.

The reversal by that crowd was extremely funny. Some people just want to bitch about something. :lol

As I said, the only reason to give up on LJC now would be if the Spurs can find someone that can actually fill the rotation. They would be unlikely to do it, even less so to do it for an Argie who has never played NBA ball. As disappointing as he's looked, he really looks like a blown pick. Hope to hell that I"m wrong about that.

[Seventyniner]

Some people just want to bitch about something. :lol

If it wasn't for this, Spurstalk wouldn't exist.

[Solid D]

I believe he is hired and on the coaching staff. Olympics broadcast spoke about it many times.

Thanks, T Park. Yeah, I think I was most interested in finding out if he had been slotted for a specific role with the Spurs, yet. The last article I read, which was in early August, stated that Monty's role was still being determined. Pop told him to take as much of a role with the organization as he feels comfortable...that the Spurs had opened the door to either a coaching and player-development role or a front-office position (or a hybrid), depending on what he prefers.

[Brazil]

Now hate Trolls: Go! (just don't cite me bc I have you on ignore, you know who you are).



:lmao, best part of that long post... tldr but I guess dat was some anderson slurping

[apalisoc_9]

So I heard France is banning freedom of clothing now in beaches, Brazil..? Is this true? I can't imagine wanting to be on the side of coin that forces people to strip less clothing. Seems like a very carnal society.

What I wanna know is if Batum is done or was just being a dick..he didnt look that bad for charlottle last year.

[Brazil]

So I heard France is banning freedom of clothing now in beaches, Brazil (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466)..? Is this true? I can't imagine wanting to be on the side of coin that forces people to strip less clothing. Seems like a very carnal society.

What I wanna know is if Batum is done or was just being a dick..he didnt look that bad for charlottle last year.

yeah apparently some cities want to ban the "burkini" even it is ugly as fuck and most of the time imposed by the husband, this is stupid. Now this is all about next elections, USA have trump we have also our demago who want free publicity. Highest legal instance in France already declared those interdictions unlawful. It seems quite of a non event.

I don't think Batum is done, he is a just a big faggot, he cannot deliver when he is overwhelmed by the pressure and it happens quite often. Dude is also an idiot who opened his mouth before France / Spain putting himself additional pressure, the result has been a ghost performance in the olympics.

[SAGirl]

Nothing concrete yet but rumors still developing that it is a training camp deal.
771838547452006400

Ok apparently the Laprovitolla thing is a confirmed deal:
771825870285578241

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/704288361737908226/dNnfOTNW_bigger.jpg Marc Stein Verified account ‏@ESPNSteinLine (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)

San Antonio has a deal with Argentina guard Nicolas Laprovittola and will give him a shot to win its 15th roster spot, league sources say.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Interesting.

[dabom]

I think garino makes it TBH.

[dabom]

I like his poise .

[jehawk81]

I like his poise .

I bet u do u faggot

[dabom]

I bet u do u faggot

Chill them flaming tendencies dude. :lol

[szkorhetz]

And Hanga is still not signed...

[From Downtown]

And Hanga is still not signed...
Think he has a shot next year...

[Maddog]

And Hanga is still not signed...

Nor am I.
Not looking good for either of us

[Chinook]

And Hanga is still not signed...

Isn't he still under contract with Laboral Kuxta?

[szkorhetz]

Isn't he still under contract with Laboral Kuxta?
He has an NBA out clause every single offseason.

[Chinook]

He has an NBA out clause every single offseason.

Yes, and he's said he wanted to stay over another year. That's a completely different connotation than him being unsigned. He has a contract, and he's wanted. He just isn't coming over yet.

[ace3g]

772200391253565440

772146061938987008

Here is his twitter

Nicolas Laprovittola (https://twitter.com/nicolapro7)Verified account (https://twitter.com/help/verified)

@nicolapro7 (https://twitter.com/nicolapro7)

and his instagram

https://www.instagram.com/nicolapro7/

[T Park]

Really hoping they have someone lined up PD wise. Forcier leaving is a significant hole to fill.

[SAGirl]

Really think Lapro has a good chance to make it. The cue: 1. Garino's agent outing out that he is dleague bound. 2. Last season RayMac didn't earn the coach's trust by the trade deadline and he was cut for a veteran. I don't think they will put the same pressure on Murray, and I think Spurs know that if they get deep into the playoffs Tiny is bound to hurt a hamstring or ankle or get some snag. Maybe Murray surprises Pop, that's the only way they would prefer Garino.

[Solid D]

Think he has a shot next year...

Hanga = Potential Manu replacement in 2017-18F (Yes, I know he cannot ever be actually replaced. He's Manu Ginobili!)

[Maddog]

Really think Lapro has a good chance to make it. The cue: 1. Garino's agent outing out that he is dleague bound. 2. Last season RayMac didn't earn the coach's trust by the trade deadline and he was cut for a veteran. I don't think they will put the same pressure on Murray, and I think Spurs know that if they get deep into the playoffs Tiny is bound to hurt a hamstring or ankle or get some snag. Maybe Murray surprises Pop, that's the only way they would prefer Garino.

I think Lapro is close to a lock. Over the past decade, Pop has always liked 3 point guards. I think it's more imperative now with TP and Manu getting up there in age and Patty being more of a hybrid point.

[kaji157]

Really think Lapro has a good chance to make it. The cue: 1. Garino's agent outing out that he is dleague bound. 2. Last season RayMac didn't earn the coach's trust by the trade deadline and he was cut for a veteran. I don't think they will put the same pressure on Murray, and I think Spurs know that if they get deep into the playoffs Tiny is bound to hurt a hamstring or ankle or get some snag. Maybe Murray surprises Pop, that's the only way they would prefer Garino.

The more time passes the more i convince myself that the Spurs will cut one of the guaranteed contracts.
My bet is on Simmons.
I don´t think the Spurs go on a training camp with so many players to fill just one roster spot. Maybe Simmons is being given this last training camp to show what he cando, and if he doesn´t convince the coaches then maybe 2 invitees make it.

[Chinook]

I think there's also a very legit change that Murray is a shooting-guard in the NBA, so getting a PG in the pipeline is a good thing.

[MaNu4Tres]

Really hoping they have someone lined up PD wise. Forcier leaving is a significant hole to fill.

Player development is a team thing. Forcier is a great guy and worked his ass off for the Spurs for years, but Forcier wasn't the guy coming up with what players need to work on. The planning was collective effort from the guys in the front office and the coaches.

Spurs will still have the same brains in the front office and coaching staff to develop players efficiently.

[Chinook]

Hanga = Potential Manu replacement in 2017-18F (Yes, I know he cannot ever be actually replaced. He's Manu Ginobili!)

I think he's more a replacement for the mid-20s guard who's too old to be a prospect role that Simmons is currently occupying.

[Solid D]

I think he's more a replacement for the mid-20s guard who's too old to be a prospect role that Simmons is currently occupying.

Ouch.

[Chinook]

Ouch.

Jon is fine for the price he's paid (not a great steal like some keep calling him, but fine nonetheless), but he's currently not worth re-signing at any price. He'll have to improve substantially. So having Hanga on a similar deal to the one Simmons signed last year would be idea, especially since he's better than Simmons.

[SAGirl]

There's certainly a chance that Simms doesn't improve at all this summer but I don't think they cut him this early. He reminds me of Austin Daye, not in game but in being a project player of about the same age and it being a risky proposition that guys that old would improve a lot. Anyways, Daye still made it out of camp when in reality Jamychal Green was a better prospect and should have taken that spot. Thus, I don't expect the Spurs to cut Simmons this early, although it wouldn't surprise me if they do it midseason bc he's sucking. They are going to give him a chance though IMO. Garino can always be picked up from the dleague if they need to, it's not like he's lost forever as a prospect.

I also think it's too soon to indeed know what Murray is, but after seeing Pop coerce PG duties out of a series of guards that were clearly not PG I expect him to be trained to play both the 1 and the 2. It doesn't matter this season bc he has so much to work on that picking up a true PG is probably a necessity at this point (Tony and Manu being that old and injury prone).

[Chinook]

There's certainly a chance that Simms doesn't improve at all this summer but I don't think they cut him this early. He reminds me of Austin Daye, not in game but in being a project player of about the same age and it being a risky proposition that guys that old would improve a lot. Anyways, Daye still made it out of camp when in reality Jamychal Green was a better prospect and should have taken that spot. Thus, I don't expect the Spurs to cut Simmons this early, although it wouldn't surprise me if they do it midseason bc he's sucking. They are going to give him a chance though IMO. Garino can always be picked up from the dleague if they need to, it's not like he's lost forever as a prospect.

I also think it's too soon to indeed know what Murray is, but after seeing Pop coerce PG duties out of a series of guards that were clearly not PG I expect him to be trained to play both the 1 and the 2. It doesn't matter this season bc he has so much to work on that picking up a true PG is probably a necessity at this point (Tony and Manu being that old and injury prone).

I don't think Simmons is going to be cut in camp. He's definitely the most vulnerable of the guaranteed contracts, but I think he makes it. But I don't think he's a Spur in 2017-2018. It's just not worth it to have a fourth wing at his price tag. Too many other needs. A guy like Hanga can step in and play a good role for the min while Murray or some two-guard who's a legit scorer will get most of the minutes behind Green. It's not too different than Boban, but Marjanovic had significantly more value.

In the NFL, they have an 80/20 rule. If a replacement player can give you 80 percent at 20 percent of the price, then you should almost always go with that. I think it's very likely that Jonathon fits that situation.

[SAGirl]

I don't think Simmons is going to be cut in camp. He's definitely the most vulnerable of the guaranteed contracts, but I think he makes it. But I don't think he's a Spur in 2017-2018. It's just not worth it to have a fourth wing at his price tag. Too many other needs. A guy like Hanga can step in and play a good role for the min while Murray or some two-guard who's a legit scorer will get most of the minutes behind Green. It's not too different than Boban, but Marjanovic had significantly more value.

In the NFL, they have an 80/20 rule. If a replacement player can give you 80 percent at 20 percent of the price, then you should almost always go with that. I think it's very likely that Jonathon fits that situation.
Agreed with your take on J.Simms unlikely to be resigned. Murray will also make J.Simms strengths' repetitive. He doesn't make sense past this season.

But for this season, I want him to do well bc there are a lot of raw rookies as alternatives right now who have a steep learning curve. Manu is also 39 and what I missed in my Austin Daye analogy was that he was between 13-15 on most nights (even Bonner was ahead of him, and when when Kawhi hurt his hand Anderson leapfrogged Daye in the rotation. That was perhaps the first real sign he was on his way out).

Meanwhile Simmons is probably looking to play and needed to play much more. He might be 8-11 behind a 39 year old guard who will need rest and possibly get an injury or nag somewhere. Already played around 800 minutes as a rook give or take. Spurs will need minutes from him this season there's no other way around it and it won't be,a good thing if he regresses and can't help. I am really hoping he can help. He'll earn himself a contract like Gary Neal so he should be motivated regardless. A good postseason showing helps everyone get a contract.

Edit: have him as early as 8 if there are injuries rest games to Manu, etc.

[Chinook]

Agreed with your take on J.Simms unlikely to be resigned. Murray will also make J.Simms strengths' repetitive. He doesn't make sense past this season.

But for this season, I want him to do well bc there are a lot of raw rookies as alternatives right now who have a steep learning curve. Manu is also 39 and what I missed in my Austin Daye analogy was that he was between 13-15 on most nights (even Bonner was ahead of him, and when when Kawhi hurt his hand Anderson leapfrogged Daye in the rotation. That was perhaps the first real sign he was on his way out).

Meanwhile Simmons is probably looking to play and needed to play much more. He might be 8-11 behind a 39 year old guard who will need rest and possibly get an injury or nag somewhere. Already played around 800 minutes as a rook give or take. Spurs will need minutes from him this season there's no other way around it and it won't be,a good thing if he regresses and can't help. I am really hoping he can help. He'll earn himself a contract like Gary Neal so he should be motivated regardless. A good postseason showing helps everyone get a contract.

Edit: have him as early as 8 if there are injuries rest games to Manu, etc.

Yeah. And it's not just Manu or the wings missing games that affects him. If any of the bigs sits, Anderson is probably sliding to the four with Simmons as the top candidate to get the nod at the vacated SF spot.

[SAGirl]

Yeah. And it's not just Manu or the wings missing games that affects him. If any of the bigs sits, Anderson is probably sliding to the four with Simmons as the top candidate to get the nod at the vacated SF spot.
Agreed. I also dont like any of the Lee lineups. I hope he we plays well but he's not my cup of tea.

I was more originally responding to Kaji. Much as Garino could be nice (and he's a fan) he'd still be dleague bound as a rookie. It's rare the rookie who can help right away in a good team fresh out of college. Guys who do that tend to be so immensely talented as to be lottery picks or a rare snubbed guy who fell out for whatever reason (injury history, character whatever). It's simply not a good idea to hope J.Simms flunks the NBA and drops out of the team right this second.

Going back to my Austin Daye analogy, I guess if we see Murray leapfrog J.Simms midseason we would know what's going on. Probably quality of play having being poor would give us a warning too. The J.Simms story could go any number of ways. I am hoping he does well. He's a nice character guy, father to 4 very young girls (wouldn't surprise me if the girls were the reason he never played overseas) and has overcome a lot. Certainly has as good of a backstory as any marginal player to root for. He could get himself that Gary Neal deal for sure and be set. Has to work hard for it though. Competition should only make him better.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/546463845317767168/wK_vvVcR_bigger.png SlamDunk BasketStore ‏@SDBasketStore (https://twitter.com/SDBasketStore)

¿Cómo ves esta camiseta para la próxima temporada de la #NBA (https://twitter.com/hashtag/NBA?src=hash)? Foto vía @WESTBasquetInfo (https://twitter.com/WESTBasquetInfo)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cs1TU1WWgAAiubr.jpg

[SAGirl]

780554652060413952


Google docs has the scouting report on him the end summary:


Pro Outlook
Can be a nice 3rd PG for insurance purposes this season
Can become a backup PG once Parker retires - will be 27 during season
Will be able to run PNR, shoot, pass plus be a helpful team defender
Solid role player - can lead an efficient offense and have a net positive impact on team

[MaNu4Tres]

780554652060413952


Google docs has the scouting report on him the end summary:



Murray will be the back up next year.

Lappro or Forbes will be the 3rd PG ( Forbes isnt a true play maker, but either is Patty).

Pattys market value will be 9-11 mil per this summer. Hard to imagine Spurs paying Mills for 15-18 minute role if they have Murray, capable for 15 minute role, getting payed 1/10th of that salary. I know people have been saying Murray can play the SG, but his value on both ends is at PG because of his size. Spurs will and shld keep and develop him strictly at PG. Sure he may play SG down the road in stints if other teams play small, but if opposing lineups stay true, Murrays' value optimizes at the PG position.

Also, it makes sense that Spurs brought in Arci, Forbes, Lappro now as Spurs are always ahead of the curve and preparing for the near future. They can move forward with one of them now, and the other two in Austin and prepare them for next yr when theyll need cheap quality piece at PG to add to roster.

Theyll bring over Hanga next yr as well to be that cheap quality piece at back up SG.

[Play Boban]

Murray is a post-lottery pick rookie. The chances of him making it in the NBA as a fringe first round player are actually pretty small. People need to stop pumping him up to be a great one.

[Chinook]

Murray is a post-lottery pick rookie. The chances of him making it in the NBA as a fringe first round player are actually pretty small. People need to stop pumping him up to be a great one.

Boban was undrafted.

[MaNu4Tres]

Murray is a post-lottery pick rookie. The chances of him making it in the NBA as a fringe first round player are actually pretty small. People need to stop pumping him up to be a great one.

Its hilarious youre saying this about a first round pick who played well in Summer League as a 19 year old but not saying this about guys 3-7 yrs older than him who went undrafted.

[Play Boban]

Boban was undrafted.

Yep, and he was unlikely to make it in the league. Few do.

[Play Boban]

Its hilarious youre saying this about a first round pick who played well in Summer League as a 19 year old but not saying this about guys 3-7 yrs older than him who went undrafted.

Lappy is a lot more proven than Murray is.

[SAGirl]

Murray will be the back up next year.

Lappro or Forbes will be the 3rd PG ( Forbes isnt a true play maker, but either is Patty).

Pattys market value will be 9-11 mil per this summer. Hard to imagine Spurs paying Mills for 15-18 minute role if they have Murray, capable for 15 minute role, getting payed 1/10th of that salary. I know people have been saying Murray can play the SG, but his value on both ends is at PG because of his size. Spurs will and shld keep and develop him strictly at PG. Sure he may play SG down the road in stints if other teams play small, but if opposing lineups stay true, Murrays' value optimizes at the PG position.

Also, it makes sense that Spurs brought in Arci, Forbes, Lappro now as Spurs are always ahead of the curve and preparing for the near future. They can move forward with one of them now, and the other two in Austin and prepare them for next yr when theyll need cheap quality piece at PG to add to roster.

Theyll bring over Hanga next yr as well to be that cheap quality piece at back up SG.

You have some good points. The entire thing with Mills being re-signed is obviously unknown. I think Spurs want him back, but they will have to look hard at the cost, together with his performance this season, and the rest of the personnel they project for next season and plans for Tony.

I am not ready to be all #Nostradamus about it, because it's unknown how Murray's development is looking as well, but if Lapro looks serviceable he's a good pickup for this season, regardless of what happens with everyone else. The memory of Ray getting cut bc he wasn't developing his playmaking quickly enough is still fresh in my mind and Murray is very young and raw in PG skills specially. With the very young draftees all I have heard from all of them is that it's a process (Cojo, Anderson and Murray stating this while clearly in developing stages). Spurs are more realistic than the average Joe fan like us and like to bring very young draft picks along with a development schedule that is realistic.

So although Murray is the higher upside/potential guy, Spurs need someone who is steadier and can execute the offense if needed this season, even if it's a lower ceiling player, but who could be more reliable right away and if Murray beats him out, it's a good sign for the youngster, not a bad thing.

[ceperez]

You have some good points. The entire thing with Mills being re-signed is obviously unknown. I think Spurs want him back, but they will have to look hard at the cost, together with his performance this season, and the rest of the personnel they project for next season and plans for Tony.

I am not ready to be all #Nostradamus about it, because it's unknown how Murray's development is looking as well, but if Lapro looks serviceable he's a good pickup for this season, regardless of what happens with everyone else. The memory of Ray getting cut bc he wasn't developing his playmaking quickly enough is still fresh in my mind and Murray is very young and raw in PG skills specially. With the very young draftees all I have heard from all of them is that it's a process (Cojo, Anderson and Murray stating this while clearly in developing stages). Spurs are more realistic than the average Joe fan like us and like to bring very young draft picks along with a development schedule that is realistic.

So although Murray is the higher upside/potential guy, Spurs need someone who is steadier and can execute the offense if needed this season, even if it's a lower ceiling player, but who could be more reliable right away and if Murray beats him out, it's a good sign for the youngster, not a bad thing.

Murray has natural talent and instincts, but I am not going to take the bet that he figures it out in the first season in the NBA. Lap has been playing for a much longer time and in more pressure packed situations, so if the Spurs are short a PG, I expect Lap to fill the vacancy. I don't think Arci will be ready and Forbes isn't a point guard.

The other alternative is more radical, have Anderson do point guard duties and just load up with more defensive talent like Garino.

Remember, Spurs on have one slot open for Garino, Forbes, Arci or Lappy.

parker/mills/murray
green/ginobili/simmons
leonard/anderson/bertans
aldridge/lee/LJC
pau/dedmon

[SAGirl]

Murray has natural talent and instincts, but I am not going to take the bet that he figures it out in the first season in the NBA. Lap has been playing for a much longer time and in more pressure packed situations, so if the Spurs are short a PG, I expect Lap to fill the vacancy. I don't think Arci will be ready and Forbes isn't a point guard.

The other alternative is more radical, have Anderson do point guard duties and just load up with more defensive talent like Garino.

Remember, Spurs on have one slot open for Garino, Forbes, Arci or Lappy.

parker/mills/murray
green/ginobili/simmons
leonard/anderson/bertans
aldridge/lee/LJC
pau/dedmon
I would love to see Anderson as the PG. At least Pop publicly told the press he can play the point, there is no doubt. He did at times last season but it was mostly during garbage time. The thing is, they really need him to play as a forward bc they don't have much depth there. I almost feel like he can really play the point and will do it when Manu is resting a game here or there, but when guys are healthy and well, they need him to play in the frontcourt, so that is where we will see him most.

Like you, I think Murray is simply not going to be ready. Lappy as you call him, is my pick to come out of camp, but we will see them in preseason and see how others look. I agree with you Arci is another rookie without seasoning, though he is a solid player not prone to mistakes, and Forbes is indeed a shooter/scorer. He's no point guard, and not enough of a ball mover, in fact. If the ball gets to him, it's going up in a shot, that is what he does.

[Brian Windhorst]

I could be wrong, but I think there's a 0% chance that Pop goes into the season with Murray as his de-facto backup PG on nights when Tony rests. That means this guy only has to beat out Archie and Forbes for this spot.

That is unless Pop sees what I do, which is that Tony and Patty will simply get run off the floor against the Warriors this year for lack of size. You need Kawhi to guard KD and Danny to guard Curry, and you need whoever ends up on Thompson to be able to guard both in cross matches. Neither Tony nor Patty can switch off on Klay onto Durant or Green. You will need either Manu (what I've always said but he's pretty old this year) Simmons or Anderson to play the other wing spot. Anderson makes the most sense if he proves to be able to run the offense. Pop might just use one of them like a 3rd PG this year.

[TheGreatYacht]

He sucks

[dabom]

This guy isn't even making the team for fucks sake. :lmao

[TimDunkem]

I could be wrong, but I think there's a 0% chance that Pop goes into the season with Murray as his de-facto backup PG on nights when Tony rests. That means this guy only has to beat out Archie and Forbes for this spot.

Pop has thrown a few new guys into the fire in the last couple of years. Murray won't be the de-facto anything to start the season - duh - but there will be plenty of nights he gets plenty of minutes and even starts games. Book it.

[Chinook]

If Murray shows he can defend adequately, I think he'll make it as the third PG and be active any time ANY of the top-four guards are to miss time. While I still like the idea of a throw-away PG to that Murray isn't glued to the bench instead of starting for the Toros, it at least opens up the possibility for another position.

If Murray isn't ready to contribute, it will be Laprovitolla (or Arcidiacono) active and on the roster.

[apalisoc_9]

Murray is nowhere near close to ready.

They need to Send him to Austin and find a suitbale defensive Guard that can shoot.

[urunobili]

There will never be another Manu... Garino may become a cheaper Nocioni though... I think Lapprovitola is a great player but there are some odds to overcome for him to become an NBA starter talent like Godnobiili

[Chinook]

Murray is nowhere near close to ready.

They need to Send him to Austin and find a suitbale defensive Guard that can shoot.

They're saying they've been impressed with Murray's D. That's the important thing. He doesn't have to be a good scorer or shooter right now. He just has to do something better than the other PGs. It shouldn't be hard to for him to become a better defender.

[SAGirl]

They're saying they've been impressed with Murray's D. That's the important thing. He doesn't have to be a good scorer or shooter right now. He just has to do something better than the other PGs. It shouldn't be hard to for him to become a better defender.

That's how Cojo got his time b4 he figured out his game, just hustle and defensive plays. But Cojo was a steady guard who wasn't going to be throwing the ball all over the place or taking crazy shots at a low % so he could blend in. Murray's aggressiveness and daring crazy stuff though is what makes him unique. I think he needs to get better at his own game. Really only one season in college in which he got by on athleticism alone won't cut it at the next level and I want him to get better at his own game bc that's what's going to make him special for the team.

I don't want Murray to play mostly off the ball bc he's not steady enough of a ballhandler to be relied on in games for example. In that case I'd rather he gets dleague and as much ballhandling opportunities as he can handle down there and get better at his own thing.

At the same time though, I feel like if Tony or Manu were a couple of years younger, the Spurs could afford to bring him along. Dijon might find playing time sooner, specially if there are issues with guys injured. (Danny's hammy injury reminds us the iron man can get sidelined too). He might indeed end up playing more than we thought in a smaller role playing off Kawhi and the stars like Cojo did.

Crazy as it sounds I think the faster route to get him ready to play at this level is a mix of NBA whenever there are opportunities, together with tough coaching and as much dleague his first season as he can handle when everyone is healthy. He needs the ball and to work on his overall game and I don't see enough of that in the big team if he's off the ball often, and his own personal overall game is what's going to make him special and help the team long run.

[dabom]

He doesn't need any dleague. He has the primary skill of beating his man off the dribble at an NBA level. Fathead doesn't even have one. :lmao

[Chinook]

That's how Cojo got his time b4 he figured out his game, just hustle and defensive plays. But Cojo was a steady guard who wasn't going to be throwing the ball all over the place or taking crazy shots at a low % so he could blend in. Murray's aggressiveness and daring crazy stuff though is what makes him unique. I think he needs to get better at his own game. Really only one season in college in which he got by on athleticism alone won't cut it at the next level and I want him to get better at his own game bc that's what's going to make him special for the team.

I don't want Murray to play mostly off the ball bc he's not steady enough of a ballhandler to be relied on in games for example. In that case I'd rather he gets dleague and as much ballhandling opportunities as he can handle down there and get better at his own thing.

At the same time though, I feel like if Tony or Manu were a couple of years younger, the Spurs could afford to bring him along. Dijon might find playing time sooner, specially if there are issues with guys injured. (Danny's hammy injury reminds us the iron man can get sidelined too). He might indeed end up playing more than we thought in a smaller role playing off Kawhi and the stars like Cojo did.

Crazy as it sounds I think the faster route to get him ready to play at this level is a mix of NBA whenever there are opportunities, together with tough coaching and as much dleague his first season as he can handle when everyone is healthy. He needs the ball and to work on his overall game and I don't see enough of that in the big team if he's off the ball often, and his own personal overall game is what's going to make him special and help the team long run.

I don't disagree with that. Thing with Cory is that a) He wasn't that great of a defender and b) Even as good as he was, his size limited his versatility. Murray definitely has a higher defensive ceiling. I think it's his offense that is a bit behind where Cory was. Anyway, I think the Spurs can afford to bring him along quickly (for example as a regular rotation player rather than Simmons, Lee or Bertans) if he shows he's the third-best perimeter defender on the team (not counting that Manu and Anderson are both serviceable with Manu being really underrated there so long as he doesn't take tough assignments). Especially in small-ball lineups, his elite rebounding ability would be a plus.

If he can't get into the rotation until he's ready to be a star, he'll have a slower progression than Anderson. If he can show he can some little things that the team needs, he'll have a chance to grow into a star on the fly. Pretty much what Pop was saying about Simmons but for someone seven years younger.

[SAGirl]

I don't disagree with that. Thing with Cory is that a) He wasn't that great of a defender and b) Even as good as he was, his size limited his versatility. Murray definitely has a higher defensive ceiling. I think it's his offense that is a bit behind where Cory was. Anyway, I think the Spurs can afford to bring him along quickly (for example as a regular rotation player rather than Simmons, Lee or Bertans) if he shows he's the third-best perimeter defender on the team (not counting that Manu and Anderson are both serviceable with Manu being really underrated there so long as he doesn't take tough assignments). Especially in small-ball lineups, his elite rebounding ability would be a plus.

If he can't get into the rotation until he's ready to be a star, he'll have a slower progression than Anderson. If he can show he can some little things that the team needs, he'll have a chance to grow into a star on the fly. Pretty much what Pop was saying about Simmons but for someone seven years younger.

That is a good point and you are right, Anderson had to do a lot of blue collar stuff to even earn Pop's trust, and the benchings were defensive lapses related. He can't afford to take his mind off what he's supposed to be doing for even a second bc he's not going to recover in time and Pop drilled that through his head the tough way.

Kawhi is a good example for Dijon. He got on the rotation right away, bc his defensive upside was there from the first day and he was able to contribute right away, and only got better with experience in the league. He worked on his offensive game and improved each season getting to where he is, but he started with the blue collar stuff. Danny got his own spot and playing time due to defense and Pop still gets on him if his attention is not where it needs to be.

It may very well be that Dijon's path to playing time is similar and if he knows it and is ready to work on the blue collar stuff initially, he may end up playing more than I thought. He has more defensive potential than J.Simms who has never grabbed boards or forced TO like Dijon, and has his own issues.

The backcourt is just too fragile with older guys right now and Pop is hopeful J.Simms will be solid, but it remains to be seen.

Bottom line for Lapro, they may still want to pick up a PG that is steady and can help manage the game when they do need it or to bench Dijon if his attention span is all over the place.

[Spurtacular]

I'm not all that impressed so far based on the first 5 minutes of the first preseason game, tbh.

[SAGirl]

Didn't find a church of Lapro.
Dropping this link here:
http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Laprovittola-showing-Ginobili-like-tendencies-9973641.php

[TimDunkem]

I'm not paying a dollar to read that shit. Someone copy and paste the content here.

[ElNono]

www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Laprovittola-showing-Ginobili-like-tendencies-9973641.php?t=d754658b3f927fc3fb&cmpid=twitter-premium

[ceperez]

Spurs 15th Man .... I guarantee it!

:bobo

Just watch:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdSdihAAV00

[SAGirl]

Members of the
Church of Lapro present?
Aye!
:flag:

[NameLess Scrub]

Members of the
Church of Lapro present?
Aye!
:flag:


What are we talking about?

[SAGirl]

What are we talking about?

I raised my flag. I like Lapro. lol so does ceperez. Apparently this church has two members.... A proper insititution will have to be raised. I leave those honors to ceperez. :lol

[NameLess Scrub]

I raised my flag. I like Lapro. lol so does ceperez. Apparently this church has two members.... A proper insititution will have to be raised. I leave those honors to ceperez. :lol

I thought he put on some nasty performance or something. Then checked the results and the Spurs hadn't played :downspin:

[SAGirl]

I thought he put on some nasty performance or something. Then checked the results and the Spurs hadn't played :downspin:

I am not sure what you mean just now...
There was a recent scrimmage that you can check in facebook where he played very well and his last game against the Heat he was fine.

[NameLess Scrub]

I am not sure what you mean just now...
There was a recent scrimmage that you can check in facebook where he played very well and his last game against the Heat he was fine.

Oh I see. I meant that I thought the Spurs played that same night and he played great.

Thanks for the info