Article: Ginobili heard all summer how he should have been finals MVP

[kolko]

Ginobili heard all summer how he should have been finals MVP

By CHRIS SHERIDAN, AP Basketball Writer
October 5, 2005

CHARLOTTE AMALIE, U.S. Virgin Islands (AP) -- The debate over who should have won the MVP award at the NBA Finals did not die down over the summer, at least not in Argentina where Manu Ginobili kept hearing from his countrymen that he should have gotten the nod over Tim Duncan.

``Well, my mom told me many times,'' Ginobili said Wednesday, ``and I heard it many times in Argentina, but it's just a statue. I'm going to have the ring, same as him, and I was feeling as happy as anyone in the world at that moment, so it doesn't make a difference.''

Maybe it didn't matter to Ginobili, but his biggest backers felt the 6-4 vote in favor of Duncan was a slap in the face.

Their argument focused on Ginobili clearly being the Spurs' best player in Games 1 and 2 against Detroit, as well as in the fourth quarter of Game 7 when San Antonio finished off the Pistons. Also, Ginobili was the one who threaded a pass around Rasheed Wallace to find a wide-open Robert Horry for the game-winning 3-point shot in overtime of Game 5.

Duncan's 12 points and six rebounds in the third quarter of Game 7 put the Spurs in control, a factor that carried significant weight in the minds of the six voters -- one each from Detroit and San Antonio, two from national NBA writers and two from broadcasters (all of them Americans) -- who cast their ballots for Duncan late in the fourth quarter of Game 7. Ginobili's four votes came from online balloting, one national NBA writer and one beat writer each from San Antonio and Detroit.

Spurs coach Gregg Popovich heard the MVP complaint several times when he traveled to Argentina during the summer, and the fans in South America even took it a step further.

``I didn't play him enough, we didn't pass it to him enough and all that sort of thing, but that's why they love him,'' Popovich said. ``Either of them could have gotten it, but neither cared because it was irrelevant.''

The NBA championship was the second of Ginobili's career, and he plans to display both his rings alongside with his Olympic gold medal from 2004 when he gets around to removing them from a safe deposit box in Texas.

Ginobili's quest for a third NBA title begins in less than a month, and this time he'll have another of his countrymen playing alongside him.

San Antonio signed Argentine center Fabricio Oberto during the summer, adding another knowledgeable, skilled piece to a roster overflowing with talent.

The Spurs originally had planned to sign Argentine forward Luis Scola, but a complicated buyout clause with his Spanish League team prevented him from making the move to the NBA. San Antonio quickly shifted gears and made a play for Oberto, who was ready to sign with Memphis.

``It was a shock for me. I was talking to Luis on a Tuesday, and he was very confident he was going to join the team. But on Wednesday or Thursday I found out the Spurs were going to sign Fabricio,'' Ginobili said. ``I was in a very awkward situation. I love them both, and I've played with them for years, and I knew that after the decision was made I would feel real happy for one and sad for the other.''

Popovich expects Oberto to begin the season as one of the backups to Nazr Mohammed, though he left open the possibility that his mind could be changed over the course of the preseason.

Neither Mohammed nor Oberto has much range on his jumper, and Oberto is a poor foul shooter.

But Popovich isn't looking for either center to be a primary offensive weapon, hoping instead that they'll embrace the roll of setting picks, battling under the boards and generally pitching in.

Both players have shown themselves willing to accept such a role, and it may come down to a matter of which player's basketball IQ meshes best with Popovich's mental designs.

Popovich has never denigrated Mohammed, but he often speaks reverentially of the hardwood smarts all the players from Argentina players displayed while finishing second in the 2002 World championship and the 2003 Tournament of the Americas and first in the 2004 Olympics.

That level of knowledge, Popovich believes, is a product of their upbringing in Argentina's national program.

``A lot of those kids start so early in a serious program, age 14 or 17 or whatever it is, and it's basically their life. If NBA teams were together since all the kids on those teams were 16 years old, they'd show a greater degree of understanding, too,'' Popovich said. ``Now, on every team maybe there's a couple of guys that really understand the game. Everybody else is an athlete, but very few combine athleticism with a really innate basketball quotient.''

Ginobili is one such player, and his combination of slashing skills, outside shooting and flair is what endears him so strongly to Spurs fans and his countrymen -- even if it wasn't appreciated quite enough last June to earn Ginobili a couple of swing votes.

``When I read the newspapers in Europe and Argentina, they said he was the people's MVP,'' Oberto said. ``But the most important thing is to be a champion.''

Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AoBs5wcpica.gviuTXKZ2Cm8vLYF?slug=ap-spurs-ginobili&prov=ap&type=lgns)

[ducks]

people need to think no duncan in finals no ring

[T Park]

Neither Mohammed nor Oberto has much range on his jumper, and Oberto is a poor foul shooter

so the guy has no jump shot, is 30 years old, what intangibles has the guy got, that makes him better than an improving Mohammed???

[ducks]

Do not believe everything that is written
one western scout said he was quite good

[nkdlunch]

Maybe it didn't matter to Ginobili, but his biggest backers felt the 6-4 vote in favor of Duncan was a slap in the face.


These are the same people that think Maradona is God :lol


Manu doesn't give a damn about the MVP and another thing, I don't think he'll care if he doesn't make AllStar next season.

I think he was dissapointed after playing his first allstar game, 'cause he was the only one actually playing to win that game. he can't play any other way

[PM5K]

It was closer than it's ever been but Tim deserved it....

[ALVAREZ6]

people need to think no duncan in finals no ring
No Ginobili, no ring.

No Horry, no ring.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

so the guy has no jump shot, is 30 years old, what intangibles has the guy got, that makes him better than an improving Mohammed???

Very good Post game, good feetwork
Good Passing (and catching passes too), team player
High Basketball IQ
Good Defense
Rebounding
Hard Work, never gives up
Sets good pics
Decent Shot Blocking
Can play both 4 and 5

I don't know if he is an improvement, he is another weapon for the Spurs. Nazr might be more raw and physical, while Oberto brings something different to the table. That's what is so good about this roster, there are many different options that can be used according to different moments in the season.

[Trainwreck2100]

It was 4-6, can people drop it already.

[ducks]

Most important pickup in my opinion is the (Fabricio) Oberto kid ... He's such a solid post player ... He's thrown in there with Duncan -- opposing teams are going to have major problems ... He is so sound fundamentally, rebounding-wise ... He'll play with a broken nose and two broken hands, he doesn't care ... He is a tough, tough kid
by western scout!

[ducks]

No Ginobili, no ring.

No Horry, no ring.


horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu

[MaNuMaNiAc]

horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu
I think he meant last season. Last season, no Ginobili = No title, no Horry = No title

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu

Are you serious?

2004-05 Playoffs statistics:
GP 23
GS 15
mpg 33.6
FGM-A 145-286
FG% .507
3PM-A 42-96
3P% .438
FTM-A 147-185
FT% .795
Off. Reb. per game 0.8
Def. Reb. per game 5.0
RPG 5.8
APG 4.2
SPG 1.22
BPG 0.26
TO 2.87
PF 3.00
PPG 20.8
EFF per game 21.65
+ intangibles

[diego]

These are the same people that think Maradona is God :lol



why not?

he's got the meek inherits the earth thing,
he survived the devil's temptations,
and now he's resurrected! :king





....
now don't you faithful get upset, i'm just joking

[ALVAREZ6]

I think he was dissapointed after playing his first allstar game, 'cause he was the only one actually playing to win that game. he can't play any other way
I thought the same. I kind of felt bad for him. That gangsta show off shit that all these players do is retarded, and accomplishes nothing, not even entertainment.

Have you ever been in that kind of game? Where you're the only one that's actually trying because basketball is only fun when everyone tries, not when you have a bunch of show off fucks that think they can play, but they spent too much time doing bullshit?

Manu plays to win. He isn't exactly the VC or LeBron type.

[ducks]

dude if spurs did not have manu
they would have had someone else and duncan would have scored more
spurs would have won without manu

[MaNuMaNiAc]

dude if spurs did not have manu
they would have had someone else and duncan would have scored more
spurs would have won without manu thats a moronic thing to say, so basically Duncan + anyone = championship?? What about 98, 2000, 2001, 2002??? Ducks, we all love Duncan, but even he is not that dominant my friend.

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not saying Manu = Tim, we all know Tim is the cornerstone of the franchise, but do aknowledge the fact that Manu is a VERY BIG reason why the Spurs have 3 championships

[ALVAREZ6]

dude if spurs did not have manu
they would have had someone else and duncan would have scored more
spurs would have won without manu
Who can you get for Manu's price that can bring anything close to what Manu brings to the table?

[ducks]

spurs won titles without manu
they can win more without him
ofcourse it would be easier with him

[ducks]

Who can you get for Manu's price that can bring anything close to what Manu brings to the table?




oh manu is not making alot less then say kobe
manu is making more then say amare to

[MaNuMaNiAc]

spurs won titles without manu
they can win more without him
ofcourse it would be easier with him
no, I'm sorry, Spurs won TITLE! not titles, Spurs won TITLE without Manu, and that was with David Robinson in 1999, a Top 50 greatest, so stop talking bullshit. The Spurs would NOT have won last season without Manu, period. Granted that can be said about Duncan, Tony and Horry, but its still true none the less.

[ducks]

thats a moronic thing to say, so basically Duncan + anyone = championship?? What about 98, 2000, 2001, 2002??? Ducks, we all love Duncan, but even he is not that dominant my friend.



he is not that dominant my friend


please he can take over anytime he wants to

[MaNuMaNiAc]

oh manu is not making alot less then say kobe
manu is making more then say amare to Ducks, Amare just got a 77 million dollar extension for 5 years http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif and Kobe Bryant makes close to 15 million a year! stop the bullshit! please! I beg you

[ducks]

no, I'm sorry, Spurs won TITLE! not titles, Spurs won TITLE without Manu, and that was with David Robinson in 1999, a Top 50 greatest, so stop talking bullshit. The Spurs would NOT have won last season without Manu, period. Granted that can be said about Duncan, Tony and Horry, but its still true none the less.


well you are lucky spurs did not sign kidd
because manu would have been a nugget last year

and would the nuggets been the champs last year since they had manu?

[ducks]

Ducks, Amare just got a 77 million dollar extension for 5 years http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif


dude manu would have gotten that much had he signed an extension right now

[MaNuMaNiAc]

well you are lucky spurs did not sign kidd
because manu would have been a nugget last year

and would the nuggets been the champs last year since they had manu?
Ducks... you're beyond help

[MaNuMaNiAc]

dude manu would have gotten that much had he signed an extension right now
but he didn't, did he!!? So quit making shit up, and face facts!

[ducks]

spurs would not have had moeny for manu had they signed kidd......



answer the question!
would the nuggets won it all with manu last year?

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

well you are lucky spurs did not sign kidd
because manu would have been a nugget last year

and would the nuggets been the champs last year since they had manu?

Maybe they could have beaten the Spurs, imagine the team with Jason Kidd running the point... what do you think? would that be an improvement from Tony?

[ducks]

but he didn't, did he!!? So quit making shit up, and face facts!


if the spurs had amare instead of manu they would have won it all last year easily

[ALVAREZ6]

oh manu is not making alot less then say kobe
manu is making more then say amare to
First, that's bullshit.


Second, answer the question.

[boutons]

'an improving Mohammed"

He's been in NBA 7 years, he's 28, what you see is all you're ever gonna get. He may understand the Spurs defense a bit better this season, but that's all.

Nazr may remain the starter, but Fabri will outhustle and outplay Nazr for more MPG.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

if the spurs had amare instead of manu they would have won it all last year easily
If the Spurs had a healthy David Robinson in his prime, they would have crushed all competition aswell, what's your point??

[nkdlunch]

horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu

dumbest post ever!

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

if the spurs had amare instead of manu they would have won it all last year easily

And if the Spurs had drafted MJ they would have more rings now...what's the point?

Answer this:
Maybe the Nuggets could have beaten the Spurs, imagine the team with Jason Kidd running the point... what do you think? would that be an improvement from Tony?

That's a tough question, huh? If you say yes, you are underrating your boy Tony (and apreciating Manu, something you rarely do), if you say no, you are contradicting your previous point where you said that there are better players than Manu at a cheaper price.

[ALVAREZ6]

dumbest post ever!
Not only would the Spurs not have won, they would have been swept. Manu saved our asses in games 1 and 2.

So yeah, it was a pretty bad post.

[nkdlunch]

I seriously think it's a real duck posting on here.

[ducks]

Maybe they could have beaten the Spurs, imagine the team with Jason Kidd running the point... what do you think? would that be an improvement from Tony?


kidd was not that much better then tp last year

this is not a point guard o system


kidd is better at assist but he would be limited with the spurs

[picnroll]

Last year Parker was the Argentines' anti-Christ. Looks like this year they'll be targeting Duncan. :lol

[MaNuMaNiAc]

And if the Spurs had drafted MJ they would have more rings now...what's the point?

Answer this:
Maybe the Nuggets could have beaten the Spurs, imagine the team with Jason Kidd running the point... what do you think? would that be an improvement from Tony?

That's a tough question, huh? If you say yes, you are underrating your boy Tony (and apreciating Manu, something you rarely do), if you say no, you are contradicting your previous point where you said that there are better players than Manu at a cheaper price.
That's a great question, I would like to see Ducks answer that one... Ducks, do you think Kidd is better than Parker? Personally, I don't, but maybe you have a different opinion

[ALVAREZ6]

Last year Parker was the Argentines' anti-Christ. Looks like this year they'll be targeting Duncan. :lol
Hell no, Duncan is the man. We're justt targeting Ducks' stupidity.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Hell no, Duncan is the man. We're justt targeting Ducks' stupidity.
aye, I second that notion

[thispego]

dcuks, you've gotta be shitting me

[Tek_XX]

NO Duncan, no second round

The vote accurately reflected who deserved the MVP award.

[ducks]

no duncan no finals
spurs would have been to finals without manu!

[picnroll]

Yes TD is the man. Remember, Manu's great but there are probably five or six players that could have taken Manu's place and gotten the Spurs a trophy. Nobody, not KG, not Shaq, nobody could have replaced TD and gotten the Spurs the rings. TD is MVP.

[2centsworth]

horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu
That's retarted.

[mookie2001]

Anyone who thinks Manu should have gotten Finals MVP is a dumbass.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

kidd was not that much better then tp last year

So there you go...you can't find what Manu brings at his price. Jeez, I can't believe we are still arguing about this. The guy finished with one of the highest Efficiency ratings per minute played in the Playoffs, he was the team's top scorer in many games (with an insane FG% for a Guard), played awesome defense, made clutch plays, created points in critical moments when no one else was hitting a jumper. And he even accepted coming from the bench.

Seriously ducks, cut the crap, it's ok if you hate Manu, but at least bring a decent take. I don't know, talk about his hair, or go all-George Karlesque on us and complain about his flops, but you can't possibly argue what he meant for the Spurs winning the Larry O'Brien last season.

[ducks]

remember, Manu's great but there are probably five or six players that could have taken Manu's place and gotten the Spurs a trophy.

picnroll gets it
we have a winner!

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

no duncan no finals
spurs would have been to finals without manu!

Yeah, right, probably Hedo Turkoglu or Brent Barry would have created plays when the Nuggets, Sonics and Pistons played tough defense.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

So there you go...you can't find what Manu brings at his price. Jeez, I can't believe we are still arguing about this. The guy finished with one of the highest Efficiency ratings per minute played in the Playoffs, he was the team's top scorer in many games (with an insane FG% for a Guard), played awesome defense, made clutch plays, created points in critical moments when no one else was hitting a jumper. And he even accepted coming from the bench.

Seriously ducks, cut the crap, it's ok if you hate Manu, but at least bring a decent take. I don't know, talk about his hair, or go all-George Karlesque on us and complain about his flops, but you can't possibly argue what he meant for the Spurs winning the Larry O'Brien last season.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/new/8_22/36_1_75.gif

[ducks]

so I hate manu because I do not think he was the finals mvp

I posted I wanted him to win it last year but I did not think he deserved it

if he won it he would get more calls this year!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

remember, Manu's great but there are probably five or six players that could have taken Manu's place and gotten the Spurs a trophy.

picnroll gets it
we have a winner!
yeah, five or six players, BUT NOT AT MANU'S SALARY!! Why is it so hard to grasp that concept??

[mookie2001]

no one is dissing Manu
even if he played 7 good games, which he didn't
he wasnt the MVP
it was Tim Duncan

[nkdlunch]

no one is dissing Manu
even if he played 7 good games, which he didn't
he wasnt the MVP
it was Tim Duncan


what are u 5 yrs old? whats up w/the gay fonts?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

so I hate manu because I do not think he was the finals mvp

I posted I wanted him to win it last year but I did not think he deserved it

if he won it he would get more calls this year!
No, Ducks, stop playing stupid. You know this whole argument is about you not thinking Manu was crucial to last season's success, not about the MVP thing!

[picnroll]

yeah, five or six players, BUT NOT AT MANU'S SALARY!! Why is it so hard to grasp that concept??
Wade? Gotcha.

I'd say LeBron but then I'd have ducks on my back too. :lol

[nkdlunch]

so I hate manu because I do not think he was the finals mvp

I posted I wanted him to win it last year but I did not think he deserved it

if he won it he would get more calls this year!

remember this post?


horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu

maybe that's why ppl think u hate manu?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

no one is dissing Manu
even if he played 7 good games, which he didn't
he wasnt the MVP
it was Tim Duncan
WTF? christ, that is not what is being discussed here mookie, get with the program!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Wade? Gotcha.

I'd say LeBron but then I'd have ducks on my back too. :lol
pincroll, in order to get LeBron, we would have had to have a very high first round pick, I'm talking reality here, not imagining things.

[mookie2001]

i never post in the spurs forum anyone more because the people in here a bunch of lottery picks fools (not yall) and know next to nothing about basketball (maybe yall)
I'm trying to make my point and get out

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

No one is saying Manu is the only reason the Spurs are the Champs.

We are arguing about ducks statement that without Manu (someone who is easily replaced, hell, Stevie Francis would do a much better job, right?) the Spurs would have cruised through the playoffs. Read the Argentinians replies to this post, no one said "Manu was robbed, he's the MVP", they are responding to ducks claim that Manu is "just another player". Well, I'm sorry to inform you, but he's not, he's a difference maker.

To me, the MVP is just a media thingy, the important thing is that the Spurs have another ring. What upsets me is that ducks is saying that it's the same with or without Manu...he's talking about the 2nd. best player on this team.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

i never post in the spurs forum anyone more because the people in here a bunch of lottery picks fools (not yall) and know next to nothing about basketball (maybe yall)
I'm trying to make my point and get out

Oh, I'm sorry, thank you for showing us n00bs the light, you basketball god. Your takes have been very informative, even if you didn't understand what was being discussed.

[ducks]

manu was a big reason they won a title last year
however had they not had him duncan would have done more he is capable of doign more then what he did last year!

[mookie2001]

well Manu was a role player in 03 and we won...
we replaced him with a unproven unheard of steven jackson and won the title

[MaNuMaNiAc]

No one is saying Manu is the only reason the Spurs are the Champs.

We are arguing about ducks statement that without Manu (someone who is easily replaced, hell, Stevie Francis would do a much better job, right?) the Spurs would have cruised through the playoffs. Read the Argentinians replies to this post, no one said "Manu was robbed, he's the MVP", they are responding to ducks claim that Manu is "just another player". Well, I'm sorry to inform you, but he's not, he's a difference maker.

To me, the MVP is just a media thingy, the important thing is that the Spurs have another ring. What upsets me is that ducks is saying that it's the same with or without Manu...he's talking about the 2nd. best player on this team.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/new/8_22/36_1_75.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/new/8_22/18_1_35.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/new/8_22/23_32_7.gif

[nkdlunch]

ok so you basically backing out of this:


horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu

done deal :)

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/new/8_22/36_1_75.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/new/8_22/18_1_35.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/new/8_22/23_32_7.gif

I'm not a girl, bitch! :pctoss

:lol

[ducks]

pincroll, in order to get LeBron, we would have had to have a very high first round pick, I'm talking reality here, not imagining things.

pistons had a very high draft pick when they picked darko

spurs could have traded for a high draft pick

[picnroll]

pincroll, in order to get LeBron, we would have had to have a very high first round pick, I'm talking reality here, not imagining things.
Who said anything about reality? Look I'm not arguing Manu's greatness. I 'm probably as big a Manu homer as any non-Argentinian can be. It's just you could swap Manu for Wade, Kobe, T Mac, and win. You can't take Shaq, put hhim on th Spurs and beat Detroit, same with KG.

But to show you how big a Manu homer I am I'd rather have him than Kobe, T Mac, Wade (although that ones tough). Not because I think he's better just that he exemplifies more what I like about the Spurs, intelligence, personality, mature and he's hella fun to watch.

But TD's MVP.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I'm not a girl, bitch! :pctoss

:lol
I know, but it don't work with "You go guy!" http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[ducks]

Wade? Gotcha.

I'd say LeBron but then I'd have ducks on my back too. :lol
wade
james
melo (maybe)


spurs could have won it all with had they not had manu



not sure with melo though

[picnroll]

ducks you lost me at Melo.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

wade
james
melo (maybe)


spurs could have won it all with had they not had manu



not sure with melo though

So, the Spurs would have won it all with Lebron? Jeez, you are a walking contradiction...or maybe something is lost in translation?

"No Manu, no difference"
"Actually he was important last season"

-Insert one of your 10 million posts saying Lebron James sucks-
"With Lebron Spurs would have been Champs"

[ducks]

So, the Spurs would have won it all with Lebron? Jeez, you are a walking contradiction...or maybe something is lost in translation?

"No Manu, no difference"
"Actually he was important last season"

-Insert one of your 10 million posts saying Lebron James sucks-
"With Lebron Spurs would have been Champs"
\

james has not proven he can carry a team
if was a spurs he would not be the best player and would not have to carry the team

the problem with james is he does not trust his teamates
with the spurs duncan would have to trust HIM NOT JAMES has to trust duncan

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Who said anything about reality? Look I'm not arguing Manu's greatness. I 'm probably as big a Manu homer as any non-Argentinian can be. It's just you could swap Manu for Wade, Kobe, T Mac, and win. You can't take Shaq, put hhim on th Spurs and beat Detroit, same with KG.

But to show you how big a Manu homer I am I'd rather have him than Kobe, T Mac, Wade (although that ones tough). Not because I think he's better just that he exemplifies more what I like about the Spurs, intelligence, personality, mature and he's hella fun to watch.

But TD's MVP. I think that is bullshit, if you think Kobe would be able to fit into the Spurs system, you've got another thing coming. Kobe needs to be the center of his team's offense to be productive, he just wouldn't be that here. I find it funny that whenever the Spurs try to sign a player every Spurs fan in here is worried about chemistry, but now Manu is suddenly replaceable with any guard who happens to score more points. I'm sorry, but neither of those you mentioned can be acquired at the same price Manu is costing the Spurs, with the exception of Wade, but even with him, you're dreaming.

[ducks]

ducks you lost me at Melo.


not sure if melo was a spur instead of manu they would have won it all

[ducks]

I think that is bullshit, if you think Kobe would be able to fit into the Spurs system, you've got another thing coming. Kobe needs to be the center of his team's offense to be productive, he just wouldn't be that here. I find it funny that whenever the Spurs try to sign a player every Spurs fan in here is worried about chemistry, but now Manu is suddenly replaceable with any guard who happens to score more points. I'm sorry, but neither of those you mentioned can be acquired at the same price Manu is costing the Spurs.


why does the other player have to make the same amount?

spurs could trade barry for draft picks and use that saraly for manu's replacement

[nkdlunch]

Basically what we have with Manu is a Superstar that can take control over games BUT IN ADDITION has to also be a team player and do unusual things like give up the ball late in the game and even start at the bench if he has to.

NOBODY MENTIONED ABOVE(WADE,TMAC,KOBE,LEBRON) has both of the above qualifications.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

why does the other player have to make the same amount?

spurs could trade barry for draft picks and use that saraly for manu's replacement
You just don't get it do you?? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif

[picnroll]

I think that is bullshit, if you think Kobe would be able to fit into the Spurs system, you've got another thing coming. Kobe needs to be the center of his team's offense to be productive, he just wouldn't be that here. I find it funny that whenever the Spurs try to sign a player every Spurs fan in here is worried about chemistry, but now Manu is suddenly replaceable with any guard who happens to score more points. I'm sorry, but neither of those you mentioned can be acquired at the same price Manu is costing the Spurs, with the exception of Wade, but even with him, you're dreaming.
I think you underestimate Pop.

And we weren't talking about price. When I brought up those players then you threw price in as a qualifier.

btw Wade is a team player, and I think LeBron is too and I think Pop could get more out of Kobe as a team player than Phil and all his zen can.

[ducks]

I doubt those players would like to come off the bench
but pop might not have asked them to either
he did that with manu because he knew he would be willing to...

lebron has never been asked not to have the ball late in the game so who knows if he would be willing or not

rember duncan does not get the ball late in the game all the time either

[ducks]

You just don't get it do you?? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif


you not get it

manu is not god

[z0sa]

Without Duncan, there would be no championships in San Antonio.

Duncan is definitely, definitely, definitely a more important player than Manu in the spurs system. Hes number 1... then a long ways down Manu is number 2. Just last year it was tony parker who was number 2 - but duncan has always been number 1. Duncan deserved the finals mvp with his game 7 performance. Remember that two of manu's baskets including a three pointer in the fourth quarter of game 7 when he scored 11 points were assists from duncan. The reason Manu had such a big quarter was mainly because duncan was getting doubleteamed in the post and that let manu do his thing unimpeded for the first time the entire series. Also detroit gave up at the end; remember the easy layup manu scored on them with like 2 minutes left? Everyone was talking about Duncan's phenomenal game 7, because it was he who caused everyone else's greatness to show brightly for the first time in a while.

If we win it again this year, Duncan will be finals mvp again. Its just that damn simple.

[nkdlunch]

I doubt those players would like to come off the bench
but pop might not have asked them to either
he did that with manu because he knew he would be willing to...


Dude! he asked Manu 'cause he HAD TO, not 'cause he could. We had no punch off the bench. Which is exactly what would have happened w/any of the other stars. We would have been fucked!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I think you underestimate Pop.

And we weren't talking about price. When I brought up those players then you threw price in as a qualifier.

btw Wade is a team player, and I think LeBron is too and I think Pop could get more out of Kobe as a team player than Phil and all his zen can. just to clarify...



remember, Manu's great but there are probably five or six players that could have taken Manu's place and gotten the Spurs a trophy.

picnroll gets it
we have a winner! yeah, five or six players, BUT NOT AT MANU'S SALARY!! Why is it so hard to grasp that concept??
and then you posted



yeah, five or six players, BUT NOT AT MANU'S SALARY!! Why is it so hard to grasp that concept?? Wade? Gotcha.

I'd say LeBron but then I'd have ducks on my back too.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

you not get it

manu is not god
I never said he was Ducks!! You're the one saying Manu doesn't make a difference!

[ShoogarBear]

Last year Parker was the Argentines' anti-Christ. Looks like this year they'll be targeting Duncan. :lol

Bingo.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

For the 567th. billion time: No one is discussing Tim's MVP Trophy

The article has taken some people's opinions (some who are basketball fans, others who only watched the Finals) as the whole statement of a nation. Anyone who has been watching the Argentina's National Team in the past 5 years knows that for the Argentinian basketball community (fans, coaches, players, journalists -not all, some like to stir things up in order to have something to write about-) individual goals are nowhere near winning trophies.

The discussion here is how much was Manu's influence worth in winning the Larry O'Brien trophy.

[ducks]

Dude! he asked Manu 'cause he HAD TO, not 'cause he could. We had no punch off the bench. Which is exactly what would have happened w/any of the other stars. We would have been fucked!


had theyhad no choice they might have

ai no
but in the playoffs players want to win they might have WHO KNOW"S FOR SURE?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Without Duncan, there would be no championships in San Antonio.

Duncan is definitely, definitely, definitely a more important player than Manu in the spurs system. Hes number 1... then a long ways down Manu is number 2. Just last year it was tony parker who was number 2 - but duncan has always been number 1. Duncan deserved the finals mvp with his game 7 performance. Remember that two of manu's baskets including a three pointer in the fourth quarter of game 7 when he scored 11 points were assists from duncan. The reason Manu had such a big quarter was mainly because duncan was getting doubleteamed in the post and that let manu do his thing unimpeded for the first time the entire series. Also detroit gave up at the end; remember the easy layup manu scored on them with like 2 minutes left? Everyone was talking about Duncan's phenomenal game 7, because it was he who caused everyone else's greatness to show brightly for the first time in a while.

If we win it again this year, Duncan will be finals mvp again. Its just that damn simple.
Do you post without reading what the hell is being discussed often?

[mookie2001]

Ohh
whats the name of this thread?
my screens messed up...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

had theyhad no choice they might have

ai no
but in the playoffs players want to win they might have WHO KNOW"S FOR SURE?
what??

[picnroll]

Okay. I won't argue Manu's not a bargian. But then we go back to Wade and LeBron who do have lower salaries regardless of why and to cover yourself you had to bring in reality.

[ducks]

what??


manu was forced to come off the bench in the playoffs

someone said lebron,mcgrady,kobe, and wade would not

I said players want to win in the postseason

they might be willing to do that in the playoffs if it meant winning a title

they are assuming only manu would do that


they forgot duncan has came off the bench before

[LittleGeneral]

I see ducks still sucks.

Melo > Lebron, eh?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Okay. I won't argue Manu's not a bargian. But then we go back to Wade and LeBron who do have lower salaries regardless of why and to cover yourself you had to bring in reality.
fine picnroll, now that you know I was talking about reality, do you see where I'm coming from?

[Kori Ellis]

Man, this topic turned to crap very quickly. It's just an article saying Manu's family and fans thought he should be MVP and then Manu humbly knows that it's not about individual accolades. End of story.

No Manu, No Championship.
No Tim, No Championship.
No Horry, No Championship.
No Bowen, No Championship.
No Popovich, No Championship ...

Well you get the picture .. Basketball is a team sport.

So get over yourselves.

And Mookie, you say you never post in the Spurs forum anymore because no one knows anything. I don't recall that you've ever posted anything of substance in the Spurs forum. So until you do, don't complain about other people's lack of basketball knowledge.

[ducks]

I see ducks still sucks.

Melo > Lebron, eh?



why do I suck?



because thinking a college player would be better then a unproven highschool player

melo proved in college he was good
college is not the nba but it is closer then highschool

[mookie2001]

I don't recall you ever telling me that before kori

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Ohh
whats the name of this thread?
my screens messed up...


For the 567th. billion time: No one is discussing Tim's MVP Trophy

The article has taken some people's opinions (some who are basketball fans, others who only watched the Finals) as the whole statement of a nation. Anyone who has been watching the Argentina's National Team in the past 5 years knows that for the Argentinian basketball community (fans, coaches, players, journalists -not all, some like to stir things up in order to have something to write about-) individual goals are nowhere near winning trophies.

The discussion here is how much was Manu's influence worth in winning the Larry O'Brien trophy.

You know that journalists can create bullshit generalizing. Should I assume that you are a Republican and love Bush since you live in Texas?

[Kori Ellis]

I don't recall you ever telling me that before kori

Well maybe you should pay closer attention.

[mookie2001]

ROFL^^
dumbass
not you kori

[MaNuMaNiAc]

manu was forced to come off the bench in the playoffs

someone said lebron,mcgrady,kobe, and wade would not

I said players want to win in the postseason

they might be willing to do that in the playoffs if it meant winning a title

they are assuming only manu would do that


they forgot duncan has came off the bench before
we're not comparing Duncan with Manu Ducks! and Duncan is a selfless kind of player like Manu, but I'd like to see you try and make Kobe or TMac come off the bench! I won't say Wade or LeBron wouldn't because I'm not sure, but either way its all bullshit Ducks. You couldn't get LeBron and Duncan in the same team in your wildest dreams, so WHY even bring it up??

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

ROFL^^
dumbass
not you kori

:lol

[mookie2001]

will someone please tell me the name of this thread
seriously
my screen is messed up at the top

[Kori Ellis]

The name of the thread is "Article: Ginobili heard all summer how he should have been finals MVP"

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Man, this topic turned to crap very quickly. It's just an article saying Manu's family and fans thought he should be MVP and then Manu humbly knows that it's not about individual accolades. End of story.

No Manu, No Championship.
No Tim, No Championship.
No Horry, No Championship.
No Bowen, No Championship.
No Popovich, No Championship ...

Well you get the picture .. Basketball is a team sport.

So get over yourselves.

And Mookie, you say you never post in the Spurs forum anymore because no one knows anything. I don't recall that you've ever posted anything of substance in the Spurs forum. So until you do, don't complain about other people's lack of basketball knowledge.
You want to know where it all turned to shit, here you go


horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu

[Kori Ellis]

I know that. I read the stupid thread.

[ducks]

Ginobili heard all summer how he should have been finals MVP
thread title!

duncan would have been the only other choice for mvp this year

so when you are discussing mvp of finals you have to inlcude duncan

[mookie2001]

thanks

[ducks]

You want to know where it all turned to shit, here you go


yep it is all ducks fault

ducks did not force you to post in this thread though
GOT YOU THERE!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I know that. I read the stupid thread.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_20.gif

[picnroll]

fine picnroll, now that you know I was talking about reality, do you see where I'm coming from?
Argentina?

[ducks]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_20.gif^^^

[MaNuMaNiAc]

yep it is all ducks fault

ducks did not force you to post in this thread though
GOT YOU THERE!
Let's all imagine this -->http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_10_5.gifis ducks in his world up in the clouds, and that the ground is common sense.


Result -------> http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_7.gif

[ObiwanGinobili]

The NBA championship was the second of Ginobili's career, and he plans to display both his rings alongside with his Olympic gold medal from 2004 when he gets around to removing them from a safe deposit box in Texas.

.......note to Malik Rose..................

[vsnba]

I am sick of MVP topic. No doubt Ginobali played great Duncan Played great too. Just Imagine Duncan made all Detroit big front line in foul trouble even Shaq did not do. Remember Duncan was not healthy. Up course Duncan can not win himself , He needs support just like Shaq had Kobe

[z0sa]

Do you post without reading what the hell is being discussed often?

Whats the name of the topic????

I was replying to the topic, not anyone in particular. Its clear yall have your own conversation going and I didn't want to butt in... since when is not being rude some kind of offense? Plus this way if someone wants to get back ontopic they can reply to me and we can start discussing the topic again.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I have not even read the front article to this thread, but I know 99.99% the reason why argentinians are bitching is cuz they are viewing NBA basketball through the eyes of a FIBA fan, and still view Duncan as that chode that got choded out in the Olympics.

Screw 'em.

[mookie2001]

Whats the name of the topic????

I was replying to the topic, not anyone in particular. Its clear yall have your own conversation going and I didn't want to butt in... since when is not being rude some kind of offense?

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROF ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL
ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL:lmao ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL
ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLRO FLROFL
ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLRO FLROFL

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I have not even read this thread,


There, I edited it for you, now it makes sense and you don't look like a fool.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I still don't get why alvarez is so biased when he's a 14 year old living in New Jersey

[Cant_Be_Faded]

There, I edited it for you, now it makes sense and you don't look like a fool.

No what is foolish is anyone being such a dumbass when it comes to basketball that they actually think someone NOT named Duncan was the mvp.


It's absolute stupidity

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Last year Parker was the Argentines' anti-Christ. Looks like this year they'll be targeting Duncan. :lol


EXACTLY.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Anyone who thinks Manu should have gotten Finals MVP is a dumbass.



that's my boy

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Whats the name of the topic????

I was replying to the topic, not anyone in particular. Its clear yall have your own conversation going and I didn't want to butt in... since when is not being rude some kind of offense? Plus this way if someone wants to get back ontopic they can reply to me and we can start discussing the topic again.
you're right, I'm sorry I snapped bro, didn't mean to be rude

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

No what is foolish is anyone being such a dumbass when it comes to basketball that they actually think someone NOT named Duncan was the mvp.


It's absolute stupidity

Have you read the thread? Please, take some time, read it (sometimes it's good to read), and then reply.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

No what is foolish is anyone being such a dumbass when it comes to basketball that they actually think someone NOT named Duncan was the mvp.


It's absolute stupidity
ok, thats fine, but still noone in this thread thinks that, so what is your point??

[Cant_Be_Faded]

well Manu was a role player in 03 and we won...
we replaced him with a unproven unheard of steven jackson and won the title


and with that i'd say 0wneD

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Wait my brain just got smashed really hard.

Did or did not the Spurs win a championship in 2003 utilizing manu as a bench player and a totally green-dicked Stephen Jackson as a starter, eventually overcoming the then-known-as "unstoppable lakers" who had won 3 championships in a row, and oh please my brain got hurt again, who was it that single handedly won game 6 against the lakers?

Wait, my brain is affected even more, who made the series winning shot in round 2 this year? Wait, my brain is still being conservative, is everyone with an argentina flag on this website that much smarter than the entire spurs front office to under pay manu that much and over pay duncan that much?

damn i feel stupid

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Wait my brain just got smashed really hard.

Did or did not the Spurs win a championship in 2003 utilizing manu as a bench player and a totally green-dicked Stephen Jackson as a starter, eventually overcoming the then-known-as "unstoppable lakers" who had won 3 championships in a row, and oh please my brain got hurt again, who was it that single handedly won game 6 against the lakers?

Wait, my brain is affected even more, who made the series winning shot in round 2 this year? Wait, my brain is still being conservative, is everyone with an argentina flag on this website that much smarter than the entire spurs front office to under pay manu that much and over pay duncan that much?

damn i feel stupid
well, I don't know how you feel, but I do know you SEEM stupid! Are you deliverately NOT reading the posts in this thread??? Who the hell said Manu was better than Duncan???

[angel_luv]

The NBA championship was the second of Ginobili's career, and he plans to display both his rings alongside with his Olympic gold medal from 2004 when he gets around to removing them from a safe deposit box in Texas.




.......note to Malik Rose..................

HAHAHAHA! That is messed up!

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Wait my brain just got smashed really hard.

Did or did not the Spurs win a championship in 2003 utilizing manu as a bench player and a totally green-dicked Stephen Jackson as a starter, eventually overcoming the then-known-as "unstoppable lakers" who had won 3 championships in a row, and oh please my brain got hurt again, who was it that single handedly won game 6 against the lakers?

Wait, my brain is affected even more, who made the series winning shot in round 2 this year? Wait, my brain is still being conservative, is everyone with an argentina flag on this website that much smarter than the entire spurs front office to under pay manu that much and over pay duncan that much?

damn i feel stupid

:bang

You keep missing the point, damn it!

But it's ok, you are with us or with ducks! :makemyday

:lol

[Cant_Be_Faded]

:bang

You keep missing the point, damn it!

But it's ok, you are with us or with ducks! :makemyday

:lol


i re-read over this thread after my initial post

either you are bitching for manu not making enough money, bitching over the fact that manu was a crucial part of the 2005 campaign (which isn't an argument that should last 5 pages), or just bitching cuz you don't like duncan.

[Mavs<Spurs]

No Ginobili, no ring.

No Horry, no ring.

really.

I thought that Tim Duncan was the only constant on the Spurs who was a starter and won three rings.

Is that incorrect?

Duncan has been awesome with and without David and with and without Ginobili.

:fro

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

i re-read over this thread after my initial post

either you are bitching for manu not making enough money, bitching over the fact that manu was a crucial part of the 2005 campaign (which isn't an argument that should last 5 pages), or just bitching cuz you don't like duncan.

I agree with the bolded statement, however:

Name one, just one poster who said that didn't like Duncan in this thread.

Name one, just one poster who said that Manu is underpaid (saying that he is a great asset in his money/value relation doesn't mean underpaid).

I've had enough of this thread...for the one who posts after this, read this, since it seems to be what we Argentinians are saying:

-yeah, b1tches TD suckz, Manu rulezzz, cuz he is da shit, a balla. Manu wuz robbed MVP cuz he is from Argntena....weall argentiniens think da same thing.

-manu should be slappin asses in Spurs FO, cuz he isn't making enough Bejamins, and ya'll know it.

-spurs don't win LOB bling bling cuz of duncan, manu kicks td's ass.

:rolleyes

[Mavs<Spurs]

no, I'm sorry, Spurs won TITLE! not titles, Spurs won TITLE without Manu, and that was with David Robinson in 1999, a Top 50 greatest, so stop talking bullshit. The Spurs would NOT have won last season without Manu, period. Granted that can be said about Duncan, Tony and Horry, but its still true none the less.


It looks to me like you are missing the point.

Tim is the only Spur period, nevermind the only Spur starter to win three championships and three mvps in the Final and two regular seasons MVPs. There is a reason why!

Even Manu himself said that the game changed when Tim became more aggressive and took over.

It was just like 03 which I watched again today. Tim's dominance in the third quarter forced them to pay so much attention to Tim (including double, triple and virtually quadruple teamed) which left Manu much more open than he would have been. Tim was the initiator of this not Manu.

Did Manu average a double double in the series?
Tim is the only player for both teams who did.
Hubie repeatedly pointed out open looks which Manu got because of the attention that Tim demanded.
He did not once say it the other way around.
Horry, Parker, Bowen and Manu all had open looks off of passes from Tim after they double or triple teamed him due to the pressure that he was putting on Detroit.
:fro

[Mavs<Spurs]

Not only would the Spurs not have won, they would have been swept. Manu saved our asses in games 1 and 2.

So yeah, it was a pretty bad post.


Did I miss something? When did Manu outscore or outrebound Tim?
In which game did this occur?
:fro

[MaNuMaNiAc]

It looks to me like you are missing the point.

Tim is the only Spur period, nevermind the only Spur starter to win three championships and three mvps in the Final and two regular seasons MVPs. There is a reason why!

Even Manu himself said that the game changed when Tim became more aggressive and took over.

It was just like 03 which I watched again today. Tim's dominance in the third quarter forced them to pay so much attention to Tim (including double, triple and virtually quadruple teamed) which left Manu much more open than he would have been. Tim was the initiator of this not Manu.

Did Manu average a double double in the series?
Tim is the only player for both teams who did.
Hubie repeatedly pointed out open looks which Manu got because of the attention that Tim demanded.
He did not once say it the other way around.
Horry, Parker, Bowen and Manu all had open looks off of passes from Tim after they double or triple teamed him due to the pressure that he was putting on Detroit.
:fro
What the hell is you point??? that Tim is the real MVP?? Newsflash!! I NEVER SAID HE WASN'T!!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Alvarez can be summed up in this quote:


"Ive liked the spurs since 2003 and im not from texas
and I'm 15, and argentinian"

[Mavs<Spurs]

Yes TD is the man. Remember, Manu's great but there are probably five or six players that could have taken Manu's place and gotten the Spurs a trophy. Nobody, not KG, not Shaq, nobody could have replaced TD and gotten the Spurs the rings. TD is MVP.


Exactly right

[Mavs<Spurs]

I think that is bullshit, if you think Kobe would be able to fit into the Spurs system, you've got another thing coming. Kobe needs to be the center of his team's offense to be productive, he just wouldn't be that here. I find it funny that whenever the Spurs try to sign a player every Spurs fan in here is worried about chemistry, but now Manu is suddenly replaceable with any guard who happens to score more points. I'm sorry, but neither of those you mentioned can be acquired at the same price Manu is costing the Spurs, with the exception of Wade, but even with him, you're dreaming.


Maybe you missed this, but the Lakers won three straight titles at the beginning of this decade with Shaq as the first option and Kobe as the second.
:fro

[Cant_Be_Faded]

http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL963/3495592/7186711/93409792.jpg

[mookie2001]

http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL963/3495592/7186711/93409792.jpg

[nkdlunch]

i re-read over this thread after my initial post

either you are bitching for manu not making enough money, bitching over the fact that manu was a crucial part of the 2005 campaign (which isn't an argument that should last 5 pages), or just bitching cuz you don't like duncan.


To all those crackheads who came in late this is the reason why all the ppl bitching: (and not only argentinian, 'cause I'm not)


horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu


And this is simply not true. No Manu, no title.


and if you gonna come up with saying: yeah, but if we replace Manu with.....

then, that's different. I'm out. This is the dumbest thread ever, ppl are arguing over different things.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

if thats why this thread went on for 5 pages then you make me look like einstein for posting alvarez's pic

[nkdlunch]

HOLY SHIT!!!!

Alvarez, you look like that kid from BAD EDUCATION!!!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005JNDL.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg




no offense dude! you do though.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

except that guy doesn't have something around his neck that is also in his male friend's mouth

[spurschick]

:lmao I just finished reading this whole thing... it's like we're picking up where we left off in June. Classic. Manu is like crack. He gets you addicted.

[Mavs<Spurs]

What the hell is you point??? that Tim is the real MVP?? Newsflash!! I NEVER SAID HE WASN'T!!


Looking at the topic and hearing you and a couple of the other posters, it sure sounds like you all think that Manu deserved the MVP this year more than Tim.
I am not the only poster in here that understood you to be writing this.
and its certainly not true.

Without Manu and without a great replacement, we certainly would not have won the title this year. Certainly Manu is currently underpaid. Remember that this is the first year that he got to the all star game and was not voted in. Therefore, perhaps his salary is not as unjustifiable as it might seem. Whenever he renegotiates his contract (if he does), he will undoubtedly get more. Manu made a number of important plays that made a difference in whether or not we won the title. However, if somebody else was able to make those kind of plays instead of Manu, then the Spurs still win. Without Manu and with Wade or Kobe or T Mac, I believe that we still would have won the title. At this stage in their careers it is extremely difficult to argue convincingly that Manu is as good as or better than any of those three. I think that there are very few basketball fans who would agree with that proposition because it is pretty clearly untrue.
Anyone disagree with my statement?
:fro
:fro

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Looking at the topic and hearing you and a couple of the other posters, it sure sounds like you all think that Manu deserved the MVP this year more than Tim.
I am not the only poster in here that understood you to be writing this.
and its certainly not true.

Without Manu and without a great replacement, we certainly would not have won the title this year. Certainly Manu is currently underpaid. Remember that this is the first year that he got to the all star game and was not voted in. Therefore, perhaps his salary is not as unjustifiable as it might seem. Whenever he renegotiates his contract (if he does), he will undoubtedly get more. Manu made a number of important plays that made a difference in whether or not we won the title. However, if somebody else was able to make those kind of plays instead of Manu, then the Spurs still win. Without Manu and with Wade or Kobe or T Mac, I believe that we still would have won the title. At this stage in their careers it is extremely difficult to argue convincingly that Manu is as good as or better than any of those three. I think that there are very few basketball fans who would agree with that proposition because it is pretty clearly untrue.
Anyone disagree with my statement?
:fro
:fro
I sure would like for you to show me one, just ONE post where I say Manu should have been the MVP and not Duncan. Just one! You are clearly understanding what you want to understand, and that is not my problem.

[milkyway21]

no one is dissing Manu
even if he played 7 good games, which he didn't
he wasnt the MVP
it was Tim Duncanhe disappeared in finals game 3 loss:rolleyes.

Duncan was the highest ave. scorer/rebounder/shot-blocker in the finals despite playing w/ left/right injured ankles and that game7 3rd qtr.control.
He deserved the MVP. Manu came close.

I hope people would stop arguing over who the real MVP. We both love these two players and they compliment each other.

Let's start the season with team chemistry and nice harmony among Spurs fans around the world. :depressed

[vsnba]

I love manu and I wish him to have future both Final and Regular season MVP and I want Spurs to reapeat but Don't question about 2005 final MVP Duncan

[spurschick]

he disappeared in finals game 3 loss:rolleyes.

Everybody disappeared in game 3... and game 4.

[woodseed]

Umm, I love Manu, and I love Timmy, but I think I can say that Timmy is the MJ of the Spurs and Manu is the Scottie Pippen...

So no matter how great Manu is (like Scottie), you can't justify him being the MVP over Timmy (Jordan).

Nonetheless, Manu was undoubtly a difference maker. :)

[milkyway21]

Everybody disappeared in game 3... .don't think so...Tony made 21 pts., Brent made some 3s...total 10 pts. Manu only contributed 7 pts.

:angel

[Athenea]

Sorry Alvie :)

[Kori Ellis]

^^ Actually that's Alvarez and his friend.

[Athenea]

I hope Alvie forgives me coz he knows I love him.

[Banks91]

YO for real, ya'll need to chill with this Manu nut gobbling. I mean lets see, first ring, he wasnt around, second he was a role player, a very unimportant role player. So he did something this year and suddenly he's supposed to be the difference maker.

I mean, this franchise would 2 titles even without ever drafting him. Also, if manu hadnt been around, Stephen Jackson would be here now, be our starting guard.

Even u Manu homers gotta see that there wouldn't be a fall off if we had Jackson right now. The people that are overrating Manu are probably the same ones who were sayin the Lakers should keep kobe instead of shaq when the break up was close to happening.

[vanvannen]

NOBODY on this board is saying Manu is better than Timmy. I actually don't even agree with those who say he would have gotten the MVP award. Tim is the cornerstone of this franchise. The Spurs live or die by him.
But saying that Manu could have been replaced by any other guard (including sucker puncher SJ) is just idiotic. Even Timmy told Manu he deserved the award too, so if the best player on the planet is saying it, there must be some reason, right?

[Nikos]

YO for real, ya'll need to chill with this Manu nut gobbling. I mean lets see, first ring, he wasnt around, second he was a role player, a very unimportant role player. So he did something this year and suddenly he's supposed to be the difference maker.

I mean, this franchise would 2 titles even without ever drafting him. Also, if manu hadnt been around, Stephen Jackson would be here now, be our starting guard.

Even u Manu homers gotta see that there wouldn't be a fall off if we had Jackson right now. The people that are overrating Manu are probably the same ones who were sayin the Lakers should keep kobe instead of shaq when the break up was close to happening.

Why not go a little futher? You could put any 4 players in the NBA with Duncan and a title would be 100% gurunteed as long as he was healthy. Why even cheer the rest of the team? Why credit them with anything? Every win is ALL because of Duncan. Duncan was perfect throughout the entire playoff run, and if he ever struggled in a game it is because the entire team sucked so much and made him get tired from not helping him.

Your very insightful analysis has made me realize this. Thank you.

[Banks91]

Cmon Nikkos, that argument right there is weak. At least vanvannen said something about my post. You just started rambling about something i did not say.

As for my post, can either of u , or anybody for that matter, dispute my claim that we have 2 titles without any real impact from manu? Manu himself admitted that this championship felt real good for him , considering he didnt really do anything the first time around. i mean how can u argue against that when the player himself said that.

Ok, lets move to this championship. Any body here gonna argue against Jackson = manu? Jackson was our second best player in most of the 2003 playoffs, and i , and all of u im sure, would agree we wouldve won last years title had he been still on our team. With his shooting, and overall clutchness.

[cheguevara]

:lmao at those idiots who say if Stephen Jackson instead of Manu, we still would have won. That's gotta be the most ridiculous shit ever. Even more ridiculous than those morons who say Manu over TD for MVP.

Jackson is only better than Manu at one thing, beating the crap out of little white Detroit fans.

[Nikos]

Cmon Nikkos, that argument right there is weak. At least vanvannen said something about my post. You just started rambling about something i did not say.

As for my post, can either of u , or anybody for that matter, dispute my claim that we have 2 titles without any real impact from manu? Manu himself admitted that this championship felt real good for him , considering he didnt really do anything the first time around. i mean how can u argue against that when the player himself said that.

Ok, lets move to this championship. Any body here gonna argue against Jackson = manu? Jackson was our second best player in most of the 2003 playoffs, and i , and all of u im sure, would agree we wouldve won last years title had he been still on our team. With his shooting, and overall clutchness.

Your post was horrible.

Ginobili wasn't even much worse (if at all) in 2003 than Jackson. Statisically Jackson was a little better while playing a few more minutes. He hit more BIG perimeter jumpshots -- but Manu was finishing most of the games as well and playing his best ball against the Lakers (where Jack was MIA). Parker was at times the Spurs 2nd best player, sometimes Manu was in the Laker series, sometimes Jack was in some of the elimination games. I hardly would say Jackson was a true second star, actually -- no he wasn't even close. 12.8ppg? Just because he has the label of 2nd/3rd scorer and you feel he was the second best player -- doesn't mean his contributions were equivalent to what Ginobili did in this years playoff run.

Ginobili did a lot more in this playoff run than any support player to Duncan in 2003. That is a fact. If you can't acknowledge the difference between 21ppg on 50% shooting and anything the support put up for Duncan in 2003, then you are just plain stupid. Sorry.

(Only reason I even replied to this is because you couldn't understand I was being sarcastic in the previous post).

[cheguevara]

Ok, lets move to this championship. Any body here gonna argue against Jackson = manu? Jackson was our second best player in most of the 2003 playoffs, and i , and all of u im sure, would agree we wouldve won last years title had he been still on our team. With his shooting, and overall clutchness.

Spursdaone? is that u?

:idiot

[MiNuS]

I almost read the whole thread and I have to hand it to ducks & MaNuMaNia for making this a very enjoyable morning read.

I can see the point both are making about Tim & Manu and the only way to remedy this is to win another 4 championships and have Manu win at least one finals MVP.

We can make all the arguements that without Duncan there is no championship but then again we seem to forget that both Duncan & Ginoblili faced off in the Olympics and Manu got the best of Tim. I know its a completely differrent arena but common people basketball is basketball.Let me ask you this: How come America always remembers the Olympic Hockey team of 1980 as one of the greatest triumphs in American sport???????.............??

I just feel damn proud that we can have both Duncan & Ginobili on the same team.
IMO Manu was the MVP of the Finals. After seeing Duncan sobbing with his head down in game 4 he lost alot of my respect or was it game 6??? (Mental block)

[Solid D]

Bruce Bowen switching over to cover Billups the entire 4th qtr. of Game 7 and his defense in general was MVP-type work, in my book.

He also turned Shawn Marion, who had killed Dallas in the prior series with the Suns, into someone who was not open and not an option on offense.

[1Parker1]

:tu Yep, the team had a lot of MVP's and if Duncan and Manu don't seem to care who got it, why are so many of you take it personally?

[Summers]

:lmao I just finished reading this whole thing... it's like we're picking up where we left off in June. Classic. Manu is like crack. He gets you addicted.

Do you have any idea how badly I want to say Manu didn't win the MVP award because he's white? :lmao

[cheguevara]

For those who don't know MVP = Most Valuable Player. MVP of the Spurs, there's only 1, Duncan.

But without: Duncan, Manu, Bowen, Horry. either of those, we would have not won the championship.

[picnroll]

Good to see fans arguing it not the players. If the Spurs players were as concerened about who got the glory as the Spurs' fans are the Spurs would be screwed .... or the Lakers .... or both.

[Mixability]

If I had to choose, I'd rather have TD then Manu. I just feel he's that more dominant. After rooting for the DRob era Spurs and then the TD era Spurs, it would feel weird to not have a dominant big man on the team.

Here's a weird equation:
If Manu=Kobe
and Kobe=no playoffs
does that mean Manu=no playoffs?

Not to start a war, but I couldn't see the Spurs squad getting very far with Manu as the go to guy.

[BigVee]

Cmon Nikkos, that argument right there is weak. At least vanvannen said something about my post. You just started rambling about something i did not say.

As for my post, can either of u , or anybody for that matter, dispute my claim that we have 2 titles without any real impact from manu? Manu himself admitted that this championship felt real good for him , considering he didnt really do anything the first time around. i mean how can u argue against that when the player himself said that.

Ok, lets move to this championship. Any body here gonna argue against Jackson = manu? Jackson was our second best player in most of the 2003 playoffs, and i , and all of u im sure, would agree we wouldve won last years title had he been still on our team. With his shooting, and overall clutchness.

Yeah, right. I am sure all Spurs fans would have felt real comfortable with Jackson standing at the point with the clock running down needing him to dribble and make a play for his team to win a playoff game. Can anyone say turnover? For the 2005 playoffs at least, Manu did things Jackson never could have done.

[cheguevara]

Here's a weird equation:
If Manu=Kobe
and Kobe=no playoffs
does that mean Manu=no playoffs?

Not to start a war, but I couldn't see the Spurs squad getting very far with Manu as the go to guy.

what kind of logic is that? You have to take into account the teams. Spurs >>>> Lakers. Which means Kobe or Manu could have gotten to the playoffs w/Spurs not Lakers.

[Mixability]

what kind of logic is that? You have to take into account the teams. Spurs >>>> Lakers. Which means Kobe or Manu could have gotten to the playoffs w/Spurs not Lakers.

take note of the ? at the end. That means its a question if you don't know. :shootme

[Mixability]

what kind of logic is that? You have to take into account the teams. Spurs >>>> Lakers. Which means Kobe or Manu could have gotten to the playoffs w/Spurs not Lakers.

and I couldn't see Kobe taking any team to the playoffs without a quality big man. A Manu led Spurs team would be exciting, but not very successful.

TD and Manu are the Ying and Yang, they play off of each other, you know the "inside out" game? It would suck to not have either one, but I'd survive without Manu as would the Spurs.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I almost read the whole thread and I have to hand it to ducks & MaNuMaNia for making this a very enjoyable morning read.

I can see the point both are making about Tim & Manu and the only way to remedy this is to win another 4 championships and have Manu win at least one finals MVP.

We can make all the arguements that without Duncan there is no championship but then again we seem to forget that both Duncan & Ginoblili faced off in the Olympics and Manu got the best of Tim. I know its a completely differrent arena but common people basketball is basketball.Let me ask you this: How come America always remembers the Olympic Hockey team of 1980 as one of the greatest triumphs in American sport???????.............??

I just feel damn proud that we can have both Duncan & Ginobili on the same team.
IMO Manu was the MVP of the Finals. After seeing Duncan sobbing with his head down in game 4 he lost alot of my respect or was it game 6??? (Mental block)
wait, wait, wait! Let's get something strait, I said NOTHING about Tim. Everything was going on fine, until duck's stupid comment. In fact, I don't think there is anyone in this thread (with an Argentinian flag) that actually believes Manu deserved the MVP MORE so than Tim, even if that is what they wanted.

People are confusing the topic of the article with a sideline discussion about ducks stupid post, that's all. This is just a bad case of out-of-topic discussion.

This whole mess was NOT about wether Manu was the real MVP or not, this is about how important Manu's contribution to the 2004-05 championship run was. Its interesting to see how some people seem to think Manu is ordinary and easily replaceable now that the championship is under the belt. How easy people forget...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Cmon Nikkos, that argument right there is weak. At least vanvannen said something about my post. You just started rambling about something i did not say.

As for my post, can either of u , or anybody for that matter, dispute my claim that we have 2 titles without any real impact from manu? Manu himself admitted that this championship felt real good for him , considering he didnt really do anything the first time around. i mean how can u argue against that when the player himself said that.

Ok, lets move to this championship. Any body here gonna argue against Jackson = manu? Jackson was our second best player in most of the 2003 playoffs, and i , and all of u im sure, would agree we wouldve won last years title had he been still on our team. With his shooting, and overall clutchness.
yeah, me

[Guru of Nothing]

Nice haul Ducks.

http://www.twofishinn.com/assets/images/db_images/db_FishString1.jpg

[MiNuS]

!This whole mess was NOT about wether Manu was the real MVP or not, this is about how important Manu's contribution to the 2004-05 championship run was. Its interesting to see how some people seem to think Manu is ordinary and easily replaceable now that the championship is under the belt. How easy people forget...I only know that as long as Tim and Manu don't get all fussed up over I don't care.Spurs fans have the best of both worlds.

I am just saying that IMO it doesn't look good for the "MVP" to be sobbing with his head down like a little kid. He made up for it but I don't agree on it.If this was all about points and stats sure Duncan is a clear MVP but as far as leadership Manu heads the class.

Let me tell you,know one opens the middle for Manu.Sure Duncan can open up easy shots but when that isn't happening because sometimes Duncan kept throwing bricks again and again,Manu did something to change the pace.

Im happy as long as Manu doesn't read too much into it and makes this a "Jerry Jones/Jimmy Johnson" deal if you know what Im saying.

I know he doesn't.


We're so fucking loaded this year the waterboy might win MVP!

[Banks91]

looooooooooool ya'll some jokers

[Banks91]

I forgot who mentioned the 21p on 50% shootin, and comparing it too jacksons 2003 stats. U dumb shit, obviously im talkin about this Jackson, not the 2003 jackson.
And considering that the spurs are a class franchise, u dont think Jackson wouldve kept his cool had he been on the spurs??

[manubili]

Tim and Manu are an almost perfect match, both great players, both humble and unseflish. They know it, and that's why they don't care about all this crap.
Tim deserved the MVP, Manu came close, and that's was just awsome.
Spurs got a ring but it seems to be not enough for us. Sad.

Man, we are champs, and it was because of our whole team.

If you want to get overhyped over individuals, go and watch some tennis, and STFU.

[MiNuS]

Man, we are champs, and it was because of our whole team.

:lol


I want to be on the Wheaties box!!!!!!!



NOW!

[Ginobili_20_gold_medalist]

Your post was horrible.

Ginobili wasn't even much worse (if at all) in 2003 than Jackson. Statisically Jackson was a little better while playing a few more minutes. He hit more BIG perimeter jumpshots -- but Manu was finishing most of the games as well and playing his best ball against the Lakers (where Jack was MIA). Parker was at times the Spurs 2nd best player, sometimes Manu was in the Laker series, sometimes Jack was in some of the elimination games. I hardly would say Jackson was a true second star, actually -- no he wasn't even close. 12.8ppg? Just because he has the label of 2nd/3rd scorer and you feel he was the second best player -- doesn't mean his contributions were equivalent to what Ginobili did in this years playoff run.


Just to support your post here are recaps from a Laker fan of all people lol. Anyone that calls Ginobili an "unimportant" role player on the 2003 team is just plain stupid.

http://www.nbahoy.com.ar/playoffs/playoffs03lakerspurs.htm


And I love this quote...
"The Spurs finally did what they needed to win, and that was leaving Manu Ginobili on the court in the final quarter. He is the only Spur with enough character to play in the crucial moments. Without his key plays this series would have been completely different."

[ducks]

man I must have really upset a whole country

[Mixability]

man I must have really upset a whole country

you want them real upset? tell them Manu is hispanic! :lol

[hendrix]

you want them real upset? tell them Manu is hispanic! :lol

What's the problem, he IS hispanic :)

[manubili]

What's the problem, he IS hispanic :)

The only ones with a problem about manu being called hispanic are some americans
It's incredible that we have discussed this for eons, and some still don't get it. :lol

[hendrix]

I love manu and I wish him to have future both Final and Regular season MVP and I want Spurs to reapeat but Don't question about 2005 final MVP Duncan

Whats that about "Dont question"?
The MVP voting was not unanimous, you know? It was like 6-5 or so. So even tho I believe that Duncan is the MVP in most of the single games, every opinion is allowed.
Manu even won the "public" vote.

[Banks91]

LOOOOOOOOl this is gettin funnier by the minute. U kno something, kobe didnt get a gassed head from nowhere ;u kno, its the media and fans. Until the rape thing, and the kickin shaq out of LA, kobe was the golden child.Nobody wouldve though wat happened wouldve happened. So for all you nut huggers, relax, before u turn manu into a prima donna, and dont tell me it cant happen. LA fans wouldve told u the same thing 3 years ago

[nkdlunch]

Kobe was hated by most by his 3d year in the league. apples and oranges

[FoxMulder]

jejeje don´t forget basketball is team sport. One single player never win a championship
Larry Bird, Magic and even Jordan won when they had a team around... with the correct pieces...
I don´t know if the Spurs could win without manu but they win in 99 (don´t forget the asterisk) and lost every playoff until 2003... with Tim Duncan and great players...
I guess Duncan, Manu and Parker make a nice combo, but if they are alone, they can´t make much to win a championship...

thanks God they are together... with a strong team behind them

Oh! and about the MVP... Manu could win if he was playing at high level seven games... he did in games 1-2 and 7
Duncan was a little bit consistent (he had awful games too, like 5 and 6)... not brilliant but that was enough...
And he is still the Spurs main star...
MVP was well deserved by Duncan...

thanks God Manu isn´t kobe and Tim isn´t Shaq...

[TOP-CHERRY]

(don´t forget the asterisk)
Mouse won't ever let us forget it; don't you worry.

[smeagol]

Ducks is to Manu what Brewski is to Tony.

(Probably not as bad, but getting there.)

[TOP-CHERRY]

...Ducks is to Duncan what Smeagol is to Manu.

Kidding. ;)

[batman2883]

Manu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spurschick]

DRINK UP!

http://www.spurschick.com/manukoolaid.jpg

[MaNuMaNiAc]

DRINK UP!

http://www.spurschick.com/manukoolaid.jpg
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_19.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_20.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/new/8_22/36_1_75.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/new/8_22/23_32_7.gif

[TMTTRIO]

Wow this is already up to 8 pages from the discussion from three months ago. Both of them played great and stepped up when we needed them to. Without them we probably wouldn't have made it very far out of the playoffs. It is pretty amazing that someone other than Duncan on the Spurs could even be mentioned in the Finals MVP voting along with getting a good number of votes. That has never happened since Tim's been here and just like David said to Tim now he has the help he's always needed and that takes a lot of the pressure off of him. I'm just glad we have both of them on our team. Tim and Manu are both winners in their own way and will continue doing what it takes to win. By the way Manu the other day talked about the new players and said something to the effect that it's not the player that wins championships but the team. I couldn't agree more and I have always loved his attitude.

[SequSpur]

I agree. Manu should've been the MVP of every other game.

[xcoriate]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_19.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_20.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/new/8_22/36_1_75.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/new/8_22/23_32_7.gif

These emoticons are the lamest things I've ever seen. Good take.

:rolleyes

[MaNuMaNiAc]

These emoticons are the lamest things I've ever seen. Good take.

:rolleyes
What crawled up YOUR ass??

[ALVAREZ6]

Holy shit, this thread grew a lot since the last time I saw it.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

LOOOOOOOOl this is gettin funnier by the minute. U kno something, kobe didnt get a gassed head from nowhere ;u kno, its the media and fans. Until the rape thing, and the kickin shaq out of LA, kobe was the golden child.Nobody wouldve though wat happened wouldve happened. So for all you nut huggers, relax, before u turn manu into a prima donna, and dont tell me it cant happen. LA fans wouldve told u the same thing 3 years ago

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/3696/englishmotherfuckerdoyouspeaki.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[ALVAREZ6]

, but I'd like to see you try and make Kobe or TMac come off the bench!
Last time an all-star was asked to come off of the bench before Manu was Allen Iverson during the 2003-2004 season. It was a punishment for being late.







He didn't even suit up.

[ducks]

this thread keeps getting bigger and bigger like...

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

no kidding
this thread is out of countryI think I ticked off his whole country

Not really "ticked off", but actually, you have really tired us with your IceColdBrewskiness on Manu. You just don't waste a chance to talk shit about him, unlucky you, last season Manu didn't give you many chances to do that. But I'm waiting for Manu's first bad regular season game...and then you'll show your true colours again.

[ducks]

man you did not even give me time to edit my post :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss

[ducks]

Last time an all-star was asked to come off of the bench before Manu was Allen Iverson during the 2003-2004 season. It was a punishment for being late.







He didn't even suit up.


did not duncan come back from his injury off the bench?

[ducks]

Last time an all-star was asked to come off of the bench before Manu was Allen Iverson during the 2003-2004 season. It was a punishment for being late.







He didn't even suit up.


you are talking about ai not all nba players are like him :hat

[ducks]

Not really "ticked off", but actually, you have really tired us with your IceColdBrewskiness on Manu. You just don't waste a chance to talk shit about him, unlucky you, last season Manu didn't give you many chances to do that. But I'm waiting for Manu's first bad regular season game...and then you'll show your true colours again.




yeah manu can do no wrong and deserves all the adwards and nobody on the team deserves any credit for manu's success

[ALVAREZ6]

did not duncan come back from his injury off the bench?
Well that's Tim Duncan recovering from a serious injury, that if it wasn't monitored correctly, it could have fucked the whole play-off run up.

[Spuritista]

ducks ve a que tenden por el culo

[xcoriate]

Meh, Ducks is wrong. But I think his just trying to even it up a little, with all the hate Parker gets someone should answer the toll and bring a little Manus way.

Oh, and Manumania nothing crawled up my ass, keep using em if you want we think your really cool as a result.....

[spurschick]

I think those emoticons are cool :tu

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Oh, and Manumania nothing crawled up my ass, keep using em if you want we think your really cool as a result.....
Don't like them, then deal with it, I like them, and that's all that matters

[Sense]

I hated this stupid article.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I think those emoticons are cool :tu
There you go, spurschick thinks they're cool! That's good enough for me http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smispin.gif

[xcoriate]

I hated this stupid article.


agreed. Why do people keep pumping this shit out. TD won 6-4 thats all move on.

[spurschick]

Personally, I think it is cool that we almost had a co-MVP. It means that we aren't completely dependent on one guy to do everything. It's obviously Tim's team, but he appreciates that he doesn't have to carry it as much as he used to. What if the vote had been 4-3-3 with a third guy in the mix? The deeper the team, the better.

[xcoriate]

Sure but that doesn't mean we want an article written every week about how Manu should have been the MVP instead of TD.

[spurschick]

:lmao Well then I guess you're not a Johnny Ludden fan.

[xcoriate]

:lmao Nah, Guess not.

[duncan_21]

As far as the argument w/ ducks. I have to disagree with ducks. Manu gave the spurs the first legitimate 2nd scorer since drob. Even better manu gives the spurs a consistent 2 who can do everything including the ability to shoot a high % from 3 and the ability to slash.

How many guys can shoot from outside, not need the ball everytime, play defense, slash to the hoop, and pass like manu?

If the pistons wouldn't have made it to the finals I think you could replace manu with say a stephen jackson. But since det did make the finals with the matchups you needed a very good 2 or 3 to play in order to beat det. Guys like pierce, kobe, tmac, allen, would have been needed to beat det.

Could the spurs have went to the finals w/ a lesser player in manu's position? Yes imo.

Could the same be said for winning the finals? No imo.

[nkdlunch]

DRINK UP!

http://www.spurschick.com/manukoolaid.jpg


Wow, this spurschick is my kind of girl.

Manu Flava! :lol

[ShoogarBear]

What if the vote had been 4-3-3 with a third guy in the mix?

It should have been. And Bruce should have won.

[Mixability]

What's the problem, he IS hispanic :)

not according to some of the members of the "Argentine Mafia"! :lol

[TheWriter]

Man, Ducks is officially a retarded ahole.

[smeagol]

not according to some of the members of the "Argentine Mafia"! :lol
:rolleyes

You still don't get the point. The problem with "that" thread was you saying Manu is not white (or does not belong on a "all-white" basketball team).

If the definition of Latino (which I'm still not clear on) means "coming from a Latin Country", then Manu is obviously Latino.

But you, Danyo, have denied that Manu (and probably Oberto too) are white. That says it all. And on top of it, you continue making sarcastic remaks about the Argentines. :lol

[spurschick]

This all sounds like an SAT question...
Manu is to Hispanic as the Pope is to________________

[FoxMulder]

We are still arguing about ethnicity?! C-mon... What ´s the matter... If somebody play good don´t care if he is black, chinese, jew, palestinian, serbian, croatian or whatever...

What is the matter about fighting if somebody is from a specific ethnia?

WE ARE IN XX1st Century....!!!

[Ginobili_20_gold_medalist]

If the pistons wouldn't have made it to the finals I think you could replace manu with say a stephen jackson. But since det did make the finals with the matchups you needed a very good 2 or 3 to play in order to beat det. Guys like pierce, kobe, tmac, allen, would have been needed to beat det.

Could the spurs have went to the finals w/ a lesser player in manu's position? Yes imo.

Could the same be said for winning the finals? No imo.

Judging from what I saw in the playoffs I don't agree with that. Without Ginobili stepping up the Spurs could have gone down in the first round if they had given Denver hope by losing Game 3 or 4. Is a lesser guard going to put the pressure on defenses and repeatedly penetrate while taking a pounding? Could Popovich put Stephen Jackson at the top of the key and ask him to handle the ball in the final minutes of a pressure-filled game and create something for himself or his teammates? We all know Stephen Jackson couldn't take 3 dribbles without it being a turnover lol. Just sitting here thinking about all those close games the Spurs went through with the Suns I can't believe anyone would say we could have made the Finals with a lesser player at the guard position lol. It just doesn't make sense.

[mookie2001]

We are still arguing about ethnicity?! C-mon... What ´s the matter... If somebody play good don´t care if he is black, chinese, jew, palestinian, serbian, croatian or whatever...

REALLY????????
thats so progressive and open minded of you

[MaNuMaNiAc]

REALLY????????
thats so progressive and open minded of you
Was that supposed to be sarcastic?? because he is right

[mookie2001]

well naturally
i hope there arent any racist bastards on here who would have to say that

[mookie2001]

why dont we all just get in a big circle and give eachother hand jobs for not being racists

[MaNuMaNiAc]

why dont we all just get in a big circle and give eachother hand jobs for not being racists
why don't you go blow yourself, and mind your own business

[Mixability]

:rolleyes

You still don't get the point. The problem with "that" thread was you saying Manu is not white (or does not belong on a "all-white" basketball team).

If the definition of Latino (which I'm still not clear on) means "coming from a Latin Country", then Manu is obviously Latino.

But you, Danyo, have denied that Manu (and probably Oberto too) are white. That says it all. And on top of it, you continue making sarcastic remaks about the Argentines. :lol

Damn, I try to make a joke......
We already called truce on "that" thread, must I say "here's a joke" before every post? :rolleyes Does anyone have a sense of humor in Argentina? :lol
Manu isn't white, he isn't hispanic, he's a Spur! Get over it. Move on.

[FoxMulder]

why dont we all just get in a big circle and give eachother hand jobs for not being racists

I try and try really hard, but don´t get your point...
Nope you are not sarcastic... nor funny...
so let´s talk about BBall...

I´ll forget the whole thing... I've got enough about racism and hate...
Oh! Yep I try to be open-minded but sometimes with some brainiac - guys I just simply can´t