Spurs Still Legit Championship Contenders? [Archive]

TD 21

09-13-2016, 06:46 PM

Chinook

09-13-2016, 06:50 PM

Of course.

UNT Eagles 2016

09-13-2016, 06:52 PM

To sum it up: I'd rank them 4th (yes, behind the Clippers) most likely to win it, but I don't think they'll be serious championship contenders in the Leonard-Aldridge era, unless they can find a guard that's good enough to be a lead creator for a championship team.

So you have:::

1. GSW
2. OKC
3. LAC
4. SAS

??

benefactor

09-13-2016, 06:53 PM

Your self-loathing is always so adorable.

TD 21

09-13-2016, 06:56 PM

So you have:::

1. GSW
2. OKC
3. LAC
4. SAS

??

No, Cavaliers 2nd. The Thunder are obviously no longer in the mix.

There's a difference between being an elite team and a legit championship contender. The Clippers have always been the former, but never the latter, in the Paul/Griffin era.

The Spurs may well be the 2nd best regular season team in the league again, but come the playoffs, their shortcomings will again be exposed.

dabom

09-13-2016, 06:59 PM

Paper tigers again. How we forget. So easy, even Chinook got this. :lol

YGWHI

09-13-2016, 07:00 PM

With all PG/top players getting old/bench-depth issues, the Spurs are still 3rd over Clippers.

Spurtacular

09-13-2016, 07:04 PM

Durant or Curry could reaggravate their injuries.

UNT Eagles 2016

09-13-2016, 07:04 PM

No, Cavaliers 2nd. The Thunder are obviously no longer in the mix.

There's a difference between being an elite team and a legit championship contender. The Clippers have always been the former, but never the latter, in the Paul/Griffin era.

The Spurs may well be the 2nd best regular season team in the league again, but come the playoffs, their shortcomings will again be exposed.

Oh shits, I still can't wrap my head around Durant being on GSW instead of OKC. All the long years and playoff series of OKC and Durant torturing the Spurs and OKC being our worst playoff nightmare, can't get it out of my brain.

I'll never forget slamming my bedroom door in at age 18 the summer before my last year in high school (and breaking the door) when the Spurs kept getting crapped on by the refs in games 5 and 6 in 2012.

I was a senior in college and obviously much more mature for the 2016 edition, and I called it all along, but it was nonetheless horrid.

Robz4000

09-13-2016, 07:04 PM

Yes

spurraider21

09-13-2016, 07:19 PM

RJ 24 gonna RJ 24

baseline bum

09-13-2016, 07:23 PM

It's been clear to me since somewhere around the end of '14 and beginning of '15, that they were no longer good enough, even without an obvious team to overtake them (the Thunder were in the midst of being derailed by injuries, the Warriors weren't yet proven, the Cavaliers didn't yet have all the requisite pieces and the Clippers were their usual fringe contender selves).

Then, I briefly bought in again in the off season of '15, hoping that the Aldridge addition and the first extended off season in 4 years would be enough for one final run. It didn't take long to realize that too many key players had declined too much from '14 and that they had too many ill-fitting parts to pull it off.

That brings us to now. The parts will probably fit a bit better, but few issues were solved, 3 of the top 6 are ancient and played in the Olympics (plus qualifiers and exhibitions), they lack depth and the Warriors added the 2nd or 3rd best player in the world.

To sum it up: I'd rank them 4th (yes, behind the Clippers) most likely to win it, but I don't think they'll be serious championship contenders in the Leonard-Aldridge era, unless they can find a guard that's good enough to be a lead creator for a championship team.

They would have been a title contender last year with a healthy Duncan. Now they're not, the defense is going to be much worse with Gasol taking his place and the bench is the weakest it has been since the RMJ/Finley/Bogans era.

apalisoc_9

09-13-2016, 07:26 PM

Yeah. It's going to be a weird season because for the rest of the season we're going to look at GSW and Judge our ability to contend based on their level play.

But if we pause for a second, We're clearly still the third best team in the league and possibly second.

When you're at a level where people expect you to qualify to the western confrence, then yiu are a contender. We really dobt know how far off the warriors are from San Antonio..

Unless you can tell me with absoulte certainty that GSW is winning the west, the second best team in the confrence is going to always be by default a contender.

ElNono

09-13-2016, 07:28 PM

I said last season that once Tim/Manu retire, we wouldn't contend for a while. I don't see the additions this season changing that outlook.

Hope to be wrong, obviously.

apalisoc_9

09-13-2016, 07:31 PM

I said last season that once Tim/Manu retire, we wouldn't contend for a while. I don't see the additions this season changing that outlook.

Hope to be wrong, obviously.

Ask yourself, how many teams in the league are far better than the spurs? 1..you can make an argument for the cavs as the second best team, but they're not far off...

It's one astronomical series against the warriors..thats it. Its not like the spurs have to go through 6 gruelling teams.

baseline bum

09-13-2016, 07:40 PM

timtonymanu

09-13-2016, 07:40 PM

apalisoc_9

09-13-2016, 07:49 PM

I think they'd have a really hard time against the Clippers. Do you see Gasol keeping Jordan off the glass? I wouldn't take this Spurs roster against them in a series. Especially not when we have seen Pop will assign Parker to guard CP3 in the playoffs.

JJ Reddick hasnt been the same player since Feb last season. He's a year older. He's the clippers Version of Klay Thompson. I think they're pretty darn dangerous and I think LA is another team with the same exact mindset as I do.

They Know both San Antonio and Cleveland are beatable and Golden state is the only astronomical team. Any team with that kind of chances/Mindset is a legit contender...

Plus, new formed superteams always take time to GEL. This is why its imperative the team fights for a first seed to avoid an LA-GSW-CLE.

You saw last year how Cleveland fluked out a win. Make no mistake, GSW is a much better team. They needed an injury, a suspension etc to happen..and when you have only one team to worry about regardless of how better they are..you're always going to get your chances.

Imagine a scenario where San Antonio only has to worry about GSW. You get pass that and your're almost equal with the other finalist...

baseline bum

09-13-2016, 08:17 PM

JJ Reddick hasnt been the same player since Feb last season. He's a year older. He's the clippers Version of Klay Thompson. I think they're pretty darn dangerous and I think LA is another team with the same exact mindset as I do.

They Know both San Antonio and Cleveland are beatable and Golden state is the only astronomical team. Any team with that kind of chances/Mindset is a legit contender...

Plus, new formed superteams always take time to GEL. This is why its imperative the team fights for a first seed to avoid an LA-GSW-CLE.

You saw last year how Cleveland fluked out a win. Make no mistake, GSW is a much better team. They needed an injury, a suspension etc to happen..and when you have only one team to worry about regardless of how better they are..you're always going to get your chances.

Imagine a scenario where San Antonio only has to worry about GSW. You get pass that and your're almost equal with the other finalist...

I don't think the Cavs title was a fluke, Cleveland matched up well against them. LeBron by himself made them pretty competitive in the 2015 Finals.

apalisoc_9

09-13-2016, 08:25 PM

I don't think the Cavs title was a fluke, Cleveland matched up well against them. LeBron by himself made them pretty competitive in the 2015 Finals.

There is no way Cleveland wins that series if Raymond wasnt an idiot and curry wasnat least at a 90s. Assume it wasnt a fluke, that doesebt take away from that fact that they're not far away.

It doesnt take away the fact that only one team is a sure shot favourite if the spurs played them in May-June..and thats golden state.
one team.

baseline bum

09-13-2016, 08:37 PM

There is no way Cleveland wins that series if Raymond wasnt an idiot and curry wasnat least at a 90s. Assume it wasnt a fluke, that doesebt take away from that fact that they're not far away.

It doesnt take away the fact that only one team is a sure shot favourite if the spurs played them in May-June..and thats golden state.
one team.

Meh injuries are part of the game. I'm not buying it's a fluke, you don't fluke into three wins in a row with the other team having 2 of the 3 games at home. And the Clippers should be a pretty solid favorite over the Spurs in a series also. The Spurs are going to have to pull of a Drexler / Rasheed / Gasol level steal at the deadline to have a realistic chance at a title this year.

apalisoc_9

09-13-2016, 08:41 PM

Meh injuries are part of the game. I'm not buying it's a fluke, you don't fluke into three wins in a row with the other team having 2 of the 3 games at home. And the Clippers should be a pretty solid favorite over the Spurs in a series also. The Spurs are going to have to pull of a Drexler / Rasheed / Gasol level steal at the deadline to have a realistic chance at a title this year.

Disgaree.

I dont see how an older Paul and Reddick clippers can be heavy favourites.

dabom

09-13-2016, 08:46 PM

Disgaree.

I dont see how an older Paul and Reddick clippers can be heavy favourites.

Especially after that team is injury prone too.

baseline bum

09-13-2016, 08:54 PM

Disgaree.

I dont see how an older Paul and Reddick clippers can be heavy favourites.

Have you not watched Parker and Gasol these last two years? Duncan was the only thing that got the Spurs to a Game 7 vs them in 2015 setting the stage for a 50% CP3 to eviscerate Parker.

dabom

09-13-2016, 09:04 PM

Have you not watched Parker and Gasol these last two years? Duncan was the only thing that got the Spurs to a Game 7 vs them in 2015 setting the stage for a 50% CP3 to eviscerate Parker.

Guess you forgot Tiago was a fucking injured Bum. :lmao

dabom

09-13-2016, 09:05 PM

We beat that clips team 4-0 with a healthy Tiago and shit porker. :lol

dabom

09-13-2016, 09:06 PM

Come on guys. You make this too EASY! :lol

baseline bum

09-13-2016, 09:07 PM

Guess you forgot Tiago was a fucking injured Bum. :lmao

Splitter being injured is a headline like 'Dog Bites Man'

dabom

09-13-2016, 09:08 PM

Splitter being injured is a headline like 'Dog Bites Man'

We were still an injured team both last years. We haven't had a full squad these past 2 years. We haven't done shit these past 2 years. See a comparison? :lol

SAGirl

09-13-2016, 09:08 PM

It's been clear to me since somewhere around the end of '14 and beginning of '15, that they were no longer good enough, even without an obvious team to overtake them (the Thunder were in the midst of being derailed by injuries, the Warriors weren't yet proven, the Cavaliers didn't yet have all the requisite pieces and the Clippers were their usual fringe contender selves).

Then, I briefly bought in again in the off season of '15, hoping that the Aldridge addition and the first extended off season in 4 years would be enough for one final run. It didn't take long to realize that too many key players had declined too much from '14 and that they had too many ill-fitting parts to pull it off.

That brings us to now. The parts will probably fit a bit better, but few issues were solved, 3 of the top 6 are ancient and played in the Olympics (plus qualifiers and exhibitions), they lack depth and the Warriors added the 2nd or 3rd best player in the world.

To sum it up: I'd rank them 4th (yes, behind the Clippers) most likely to win it, but I don't think they'll be serious championship contenders in the Leonard-Aldridge era, unless they can find a guard that's good enough to be a lead creator for a championship team.
Have to agree with the road to a championship being uphill bc Tony and Manu are done as elite players in the postseason. Sure their respective fanbases and Pop are in denial but they are too old to be relied upon this heavily. I agree the team made a huge fanfare about getting younger but they only did that at the edges. Their key guys are old as heck with the exception of Kawhi, LMA and Danny and they already couldn't carry underperforming TOSB.

In general I am optimistic about everyone and everything in the team with the exception of Tony, Manu and Pop knowing he needs make appropriate adjustments.

dabom

09-13-2016, 09:09 PM

Healthy I say we could possibly be in 2 more Finals. Not that hard to see.

dabom

09-13-2016, 09:09 PM

Have to agree bc Tony and Manu are done as elite players in the postseason. Sure their respective fanbases and Pop are in denial but they are too old to be relied upon this heavily. I agree the team made a huge fanfare about getting younger but they only did that at the edges. Their key guys are old as heck with the exception of Kawhi, LMA and Danny and they already couldn't carry underperforming TOSB.

In general I am optimistic about everyone and everything in the team with the exception of Tony, Manu and Pop knowing he needs make appropriate adjustments.

Fathead was a huge reason that second unit sucked ass on offense in the playoffs. :lmao

sasaint

09-13-2016, 09:12 PM

Meh injuries are part of the game. I'm not buying it's a fluke, you don't fluke into three wins in a row with the other team having 2 of the 3 games at home. And the Clippers should be a pretty solid favorite over the Spurs in a series also. The Spurs are going to have to pull of a Drexler / Rasheed / Gasol level steal at the deadline to have a realistic chance at a title this year.

Truth... However, when was the last time the Spurs pulled off a steal for a Drexler/Rasheed/Gasol level veteran player?

baseline bum

09-13-2016, 09:12 PM

We were still an injured team both last years. We haven't had a full squad these past 2 years. We haven't done shit these past 2 years. See a comparison? :lol

I see the team still has a washed up point guard who can't guard anyone. I don't see how that's not an enormous handicap against the Clippers when Pop has insisted on having Parker be the primary defender on Paul.

dabom

09-13-2016, 09:13 PM

I see the team still has a washed up point guard who can't guard anyone. I don't see how that's not an enormous handicap against the Clippers when Pop has insisted on having Parker be the primary defender on Paul.

Warriors lose Bogut in 2014 and 2016. What happened? Explain it to me! :lmao

dabom

09-13-2016, 09:14 PM

This is an easy one guys. Everyone reading this got this too. :lol

baseline bum

09-13-2016, 09:19 PM

Warriors lose Bogut in 2014 and 2016. What happened? Explain it to me! :lmao

How far do you see this team going if healthy?

baseline bum

09-13-2016, 09:20 PM

Best case scenario I could see for this team is losing 4-2 to the Warriors in the WCF.

dabom

09-13-2016, 09:21 PM

How far do you see this team going if healthy?

Championship. If everyone healthy, and Tony doesn't get a knock on his ankles 1st round. If fathead plays under 8 minutes a game in the playoffs.

dabom

09-13-2016, 09:22 PM

If Kawhi plays 38mins a game and doesn't get rested early.

SAGirl

09-13-2016, 09:22 PM

They probably had a higher ceiling last season but I think this year's team can be better than last year's version we saw in the playoffs. Remember the Warriors may look like the favorite but they have to go through their own growing pains too.
I don't even look at other teams. I really think the main backcourt guys are too old and it will show in the playoffs when they can't guard anyone and are getting ate alive plus they have no legs. I don't even know how to read the Pau situation.I get this D west vibe from him like dude is not going to do the blue collar stuff that wins games.

Now I use ElNono phrase but in my own different context: "I hope I am wrong obviously."

baseline bum

09-13-2016, 09:27 PM

Championship. If everyone healthy, and Tony doesn't get a knock on his ankles 1st round. If fathead plays under 8 minutes a game in the playoffs.

I can't see it. Parker has fallen off so far, he is aging like Iverson did. Unless the Spurs can swing a big trade for some backcourt talent I can't see any way they'd even be competitive vs GS.

dabom

09-13-2016, 09:30 PM

I can't see it. Parker has fallen off so far, he is aging like Iverson did. Unless the Spurs can swing a big trade for some backcourt talent I can't see any way they'd even be competitive vs GS.

But Kawhi is getting better too. Manu can bring the magic. We just need to get far enough to play the GSW. We are bigger and stronger than them.

SAGirl

09-13-2016, 09:43 PM

I can't see it. Parker has fallen off so far, he is aging like Iverson did. Unless the Spurs can swing a big trade for some backcourt talent I can't see any way they'd even be competitive vs GS.
Sometimes I think that only something of that nature would propel Pop and RC to do something. Spurs have lost close series. It wasn't a beat down. You know when someone is in denial they find every excuse to justify the loss like "we just didn't make shots down the stretch", etc. Even when it was evident both Tony and Manu were deficient. Here we are on to the third season of more of the same. It would be tragic if they lost for again the same reason.

dabom

09-13-2016, 09:49 PM

Sometimes I think that only something of that nature would propel Pop and RC to do something. Spurs have lost close series. It wasn't a beat down. You know when someone is in denial they find every excuse to justify the loss like "we just didn't make shots down the stretch", etc. Even when it was evident both Tony and Manu were deficient. Here we are on to the third season of more of the same. It would be tragic if they lost for again the same reason.

You make a good point. Fathead was FUCKING ATROCIOUS THEN in comparison. :lmao

Dude's a fucking SACK OF SHIT. Needs to be CUT ASAP! :lol

apalisoc_9

09-13-2016, 10:06 PM

Have you not watched Parker and Gasol these last two years? Duncan was the only thing that got the Spurs to a Game 7 vs them in 2015 setting the stage for a 50% CP3 to eviscerate Parker.

The Spurs were on the heels of a WCF finish with Pop treating Duncan like a 50 year old. Let's not get carried away here. Gasol was an all star caliber offensive player two years ago and still mpst likely going to be am efficient 12-13ppg next year.

Parker's deficinecies is only magnified because he always tries to play a role bigger than his actualy play. When he's just securing the ball and moving it to positions where it should go, he's a useful offensive player. Defensively, they Clippers will most likely only have four players with decent Gravity majority of the time. Their closing team would be Mathews,Paul,Jordan, Reddick-Griffin..that's one player you can hide porker from.

We didnt Have Softridge in 2015. Our Big Rotation in 2017 is a Major upgrade from 2015. Not to mention in 2015, there wasnt a clear cut offensive number one option. (Kawhi 16ppg) it was an offneisvely cobfused team with a Center that played with one leg ( splitter)

tonight...you

09-13-2016, 10:20 PM

kaji157

09-13-2016, 10:47 PM

Spurs are clearly the 3rd or 4th best team in the league right now. So they are pretty legit to me.

I´d rank.
CAVS
Champions deserve the respect.

GS
Finalist and added the best player in the market without loosing much.

Spurs and Clippers
In whatever order you want, Spurs lost Tim and added old Pau, so i think we are a worse team than last season, not by much, but worse, while the Clippers should have a better and more healthy year, they´d be cursed if what happened last season to them repeats itself.

skulls138

09-13-2016, 11:03 PM

I don't think the Cavs title was a fluke, Cleveland matched up well against them. LeBron by himself made them pretty competitive in the 2015 Finals.Agreed. It was Clevelands size. This is the second straight year Curry didnt show up in the Finals, why? Size. Shooting threes three feet behind a three point line is not a strategy for winning. Everything gets tighter in the playoffs and it hurts the little guys first. Look at Parkers game during playoffs, its much harder for him to do all his whirling in the playoffs.

SAGirl

09-13-2016, 11:26 PM

I gots one word: Popovich

Probably the key word.

LittleCriminal

09-13-2016, 11:32 PM

So you have:::

1. GSW
2. OKC
3. LAC
4. SAS

??

Okc with no Durant at the 2nd seed?

therealtruth

09-14-2016, 12:08 AM

There is no way Cleveland wins that series if Raymond wasnt an idiot and curry wasnat least at a 90s. Assume it wasnt a fluke, that doesebt take away from that fact that they're not far away.

It doesnt take away the fact that only one team is a sure shot favourite if the spurs played them in May-June..and thats golden state.
one team.

Part of it also was Ty Lue's coaching change. He stopped playing Delledova and pretty much decided he was going to play his best players the most minutes. It's something I wish Pop would do. There's no point in resting the players if your season's on the line. Leonard/Aldridge should be average 40+ when necessary.

ElNono

09-14-2016, 12:40 AM

Ask yourself, how many teams in the league are far better than the spurs? 1..you can make an argument for the cavs as the second best team, but they're not far off...

It's one astronomical series against the warriors..thats it. Its not like the spurs have to go through 6 gruelling teams.

My main concern is that we're extremely top heavy, but Pop won't hesitate to rest guys, even in the playoffs. That's a pretty huge disadvantage against teams like the Dubs, Cavs, Clippers and potentially some dark horse that might come around.

Obviously, if our bench looks a lot better than last season, Danny is hitting, you can find a way to hide Tony on D, some injury to another team... there's a bunch of variables that can tilt the perception. But we'll know more as the season moves along.

The impression I have is how we finished last season, and there were a lot of question marks (including LMA when the going gets tough, etc)

Now, I do think we're going to keep the 55 win streak going, but that's no guarantee of anything.

spurs10

09-14-2016, 12:41 AM

We have every reason to build chemistry throughout the RS and be ready for a few swings for the fence in the playoffs. We sweep under the radar into the WCF when Durant, Curry, and Thompson start imploding before our eyes in game 6 sending us to the Finals.

It's game 7 in the Finals and it's Manu Ginobili's final game. We are down by 1 with the ball. Manu throws the ball in to Kawhi who bullets it LMA in the post. Manu rolls to the basket catches LMA's pass mid-air and throws it up as the clock expires and it rolls in as 20.000 people explode with cheers of joy. In the trophy ceremony Manu is carried onstage by Green and Tony to get his FMVP trophy saying through tears "Muchisimas gracias San Antonio! I love you all!!"
:flag:

dabom

09-14-2016, 12:43 AM

We have every reason to build chemistry throughout the RS and be ready for a few swings for the fence in the playoffs. We sweep under the radar into the WCF when Durant, Curry, and Thompson start imploding before our eyes in game 6 sending us to the Finals.

It's game 7 in the Finals and it's Manu Ginobili's final game. We are down by 1 with the ball. Manu throws the ball in to Kawhi who bullets it LMA in the post. Manu rolls to the basket catches LMA's pass mid-air and throws it up as the clock expires and it rolls in as 20.000 people explode with cheers of utter joy. In the trophy ceremony Manu is carried onstage by Green and Tony to get his FMVP trophy saying through tears "Muchisimas gracias San Antonio! I love you all!!"
:flag:
:toast

spurs10

09-14-2016, 12:45 AM

:toast :toast

baseline bum

09-14-2016, 07:20 AM

It's game 7 in the Finals and it's Manu Ginobili's final game. We are down by 1 with the ball. Manu throws the ball in to Lebron

fify

szkorhetz

09-14-2016, 07:23 AM

We'll be better than last year.

Uriel

09-14-2016, 07:42 AM

No, but only because there's only one real championship contender this year. Any other year, and we would easily be in the running.

G-Dawgg

09-14-2016, 08:41 AM

UNT Eagles 2016

09-14-2016, 08:51 AM

Too many new faces... Too many youngsters. I don't see this team being serious contenders. MAYBE next year after the team has had some time to gel and develop some chemistry. But even then, I don't really see it....

well, everyone said that before the 2003 and 2012 seasons, other semi "transitionary" years

TheGreatYacht

09-14-2016, 09:25 AM

Warriors have 4 legit stars, Cavs have 2, Clippers have 2, and the Spurs have 1 in Lamarcus.

The others gotta step up

cutewizard

09-14-2016, 12:02 PM

Pau Gasol seems to be underestimated.....

if he is motivated, watch out!!!!

SAGirl

09-14-2016, 12:19 PM

My main concern is that we're extremely top heavy, but Pop won't hesitate to rest guys, even in the playoffs. That's a pretty huge disadvantage against teams like the Dubs, Cavs, Clippers and potentially some dark horse that might come around.

Obviously, if our bench looks a lot better than last season, Danny is hitting, you can find a way to hide Tony on D, some injury to another team... there's a bunch of variables that can tilt the perception. But we'll know more as the season moves along.

The impression I have is how we finished last season, and there were a lot of question marks (including LMA when the going gets tough, etc)

Now, I do think we're going to keep the 55 win streak going, but that's no guarantee of anything.
Problem is that among your top heavy guys you have Manu, Tony and Pau all 35+ and paid hefty sums. They are supposed to carry a large share of the burden and supply that depth. They can't like they used to, and maybe that's that. For the bad outcome to change Pop has to realize that it's 2017, not 2007 and that this is not the Tony and Manu team and incorporate others.

Now my hope is that Pau can give additional firepower that relieves the pressure, while possibly all of Anderson, J.Simms, and Dedmon grow up as players and can contribute in the postseason (Lee to me is in the team in a KMart/Butler role). It's on these 4 to give a different dimension to the team and depth. If they can do it, it changes things. There's less pressure on Tony and Manu. Maybe Mills hits a hot streak somewhere too, while Danny keeps his shooting swag that he finished the season with and the whole team looks very different and all of a sudden a lot younger, similar to the 2014 team. That's what keeps me optimistic. But for that to happen, other guys need to be involved and relied on. The 2014 team wasn't the Tony and Manu show. They each had their moments in that run but so many different guys helped along the way and that's the only way they win again.

Horse

09-14-2016, 12:22 PM

If you don't believe suck a dick!

SAGirl

09-14-2016, 12:37 PM

We'll be better than last year.
:toast
Only if Pop incorporates younger guys. The improvement isn't coming from the same old guys.

I share your optimism though bc I like the team's youngsters and I think they are underrated in these boards just bc Pop doesn't rely on rookies. I think Anderson and Simmons can both contribute and although I don't know Dedmon, I hope he's at least one of those guys that competes by doing the little blue collar things that always go underrated. These 3 can give a very different look to the bench. Pau should help the starters a lot, or the bench if Pop wants to mix and match the bigs up. It's on Pop ultimately how he uses these guys.

ElNono

09-14-2016, 12:39 PM

Problem is that among your top heavy guys you have Manu, Tony and Pau all 35+ and paid hefty sums. They are supposed to carry a large share of the burden and supply that depth. They can't like they used to, and maybe that's that. For the bad outcome to change Pop has to realize that it's 2017, not 2007 and that this is not the Tony and Manu team and incorporate others.

Now my hope is that Pau can give additional firepower that relieves the pressure, while possibly all of Anderson, J.Simms, and Dedmon grow up as players and can contribute in the postseason (Lee to me is in the team in a KMart/Butler role). It's on these 4 to give a different dimension to the team and depth. If they can do it, it changes things. There's less pressure on Tony and Manu. Maybe Mills hits a hot streak somewhere too, while Danny keeps his shooting swag that he finished the season with and the whole team looks very different and all of a sudden a lot younger, similar to the 2014 team. That's what keeps me optimistic. But for that to happen, other guys need to be involved and relied on. The 2014 team wasn't the Tony and Manu show. They each had their moments in that run but so many different guys helped along the way and that's the only way they win again.

I don't really count Manu as part of the top anymore, hasn't in a couple years. Yes, he's been extremely important and normally a good barometer on how our bench is going to work, but minutes-wise, he just doesn't play that much, and if anything, his minutes might just go down even further. There's no chance he's going to give you 30+ mins outside maybe a single game. And frankly, money-wise, he did get a big deal just for this season, but otherwise he's played for a lot less, especially his previous deal, in order for other guys to get paid.

Tony should also be coming off the bench at this stage, tbh, but that's just not how this team is build at the moment. C'est la vie.

Brazil

09-14-2016, 01:06 PM

Individually Parker would benefit greatly to play off the bench and dude is ready for that. Unfortunately and as mentionned by Nono this is not how team is built

SAGirl

09-14-2016, 01:17 PM

I don't really count Manu as part of the top anymore, hasn't in a couple years. Yes, he's been extremely important and normally a good barometer on how our bench is going to work, but minutes-wise, he just doesn't play that much, and if anything, his minutes might just go down even further. There's no chance he's going to give you 30+ mins outside maybe a single game. And frankly, money-wise, he did get a big deal just for this season, but otherwise he's played for a lot less, especially his previous deal, in order for other guys to get paid.

Tony should also be coming off the bench at this stage, tbh, but that's just not how this team is build at the moment. C'est la vie.
Tony really would do better as a bench player I agree. Frankly if I focus on that I get in a self defeatist mood. Perhaps my escape route is to focus on younger players. I actually watched all of Anderson's games in the dleague in 2015 bc at the time the main team hit a series of loosing streaks including I think their only losing rodeo road trip of the Duncan era and it wasn't looking good at all. I knew then the hope was to look to the future and I haven't gone back. I have only gotten more into the younger players so that's my personal perspective.

Either way you will enjoy the Manu tour and I will enjoy watching Pop's mad scientist mode. The Kawhi fan hopefully will enjoy another MVP caliber season from him, hopefully Danny gets his LDN swag back, J.Simms keep dunking (his fans have enjoyed the summer away from the boards but I am sure they will be back). There's going to be something for everybody to enjoy.

In terms of winning yea, it's a tough year there's a super team out there and while they will need to gel, so would the Spurs. Maybe Kawhi goes on another monstrous heck of a year but I want the team in general to do well, including guys 7-12 bc that's how they won a title the last time and I don't want to take these seasons from Kawhi for granted. OKC at one point was very young, then each of their guys got injured in consecutive years and that's at least part of the reason why they didn't get as many cracks at a title as their youth and years would presumably guarantee. I think it would be a shame to waste some Kawhi monstrous years with having him carry too old a team. But there's hope. Ultimately in all this I always go back to Pop bc I distrust him to realize again that it's 2017 and not 2007. Not sure what he can do about the aged backcourt, but POP has experimented and been an innovator in the past. Maybe he will surprise me and shut my yap up trying point forwards out there, bc it seems like he will have to pull some Jason Kidd themed lineups. If he stays same old, same old I guess all I can hope is that he will find the fountain of youth for Tony.

Spur Bank

09-14-2016, 01:37 PM

Forget our feelings. Trust in Vegas: http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

Clippers are #5 at 35/1
Spurs are #3 at 12/1
Cavs are #2 at 3.33/1
Dubs are #1 at.....0.625/1. :wow

3rd in line would normally be an obvious "championship contender," and I'd argue that's still the case but who knows.

It basically comes down to, yes, the Spurs are as awesome as ever, but the existence of GSW as an outlier team makes almost everyone but the Cavs irrelevant for championship purposes.

baseline bum

09-14-2016, 02:42 PM

ElNono

09-14-2016, 02:58 PM

fify

not gonna lie, I :lol

szkorhetz

09-14-2016, 03:15 PM

:toast
Only if Pop incorporates younger guys. The improvement isn't coming from the same old guys.

I share your optimism though bc I like the team's youngsters and I think they are underrated in these boards just bc Pop doesn't rely on rookies. I think Anderson and Simmons can both contribute and although I don't know Dedmon, I hope he's at least one of those guys that competes by doing the little blue collar things that always go underrated. These 3 can give a very different look to the bench. Pau should help the starters a lot, or the bench if Pop wants to mix and match the bigs up. It's on Pop ultimately how he uses these guys.
And Duncan was unplayable post AS-break.

Splits

09-14-2016, 03:24 PM

776134862730366976

Chinook

09-14-2016, 03:29 PM

776134862730366976

All the more reason to get a :lobt2: this season.

Solid D

09-14-2016, 03:31 PM

Spurs are probably still legit contenders but until the new group forms some chemistry in working together, there is no way to know for sure until Spring.

TD 21

09-14-2016, 05:01 PM

They would have been a title contender last year with a healthy Duncan. Now they're not, the defense is going to be much worse with Gasol taking his place and the bench is the weakest it has been since the RMJ/Finley/Bogans era.

That's the biggest myth about last season. Duncan received most of the attention/criticism, but too many key players had declined significantly and the team had too many ill-fitting parts. By season's end, they had become, in many ways, a conventional team. With inferior star power to the other elites, that was never going to cut it.

Yeah. It's going to be a weird season because for the rest of the season we're going to look at GSW and Judge our ability to contend based on their level play.

But if we pause for a second, We're clearly still the third best team in the league and possibly second.

When you're at a level where people expect you to qualify to the western confrence, then yiu are a contender. We really dobt know how far off the warriors are from San Antonio..

Unless you can tell me with absoulte certainty that GSW is winning the west, the second best team in the confrence is going to always be by default a contender.

Ask yourself, how many teams in the league are far better than the spurs? 1..you can make an argument for the cavs as the second best team, but they're not far off...

It's one astronomical series against the warriors..thats it. Its not like the spurs have to go through 6 gruelling teams.

Being the 2nd best team in the league is plausible, but the Spurs aren't clearly better than the Clippers (just like I said all along, they were never clearly better than the Thunder last season, no matter the standings/metrics) and they match up too poorly with 1 for it to matter.

- No superstar or even star creator
- A lack of volume three-point shooting/explosive offense
- Gasol is as ill-suited to defend against them as Duncan was
- No 2nd big or 5th player (Leonard, Aldridge, Green, Ginobili) suited to playing significant minutes against them
- Clark, a fringe rotation player, is the only safe hiding place for Parker/Mills, who are both too important to not play significant minutes
- Ginobili can't handle the workload or play with the consistency they'd need in a series against them

The Clippers at least have a superstar creator, a near or borderline superstar big and another star big, that both have the chops to defend against their preferred lineup.

I said last season that once Tim/Manu retire, we wouldn't contend for a while. I don't see the additions this season changing that outlook.

Hope to be wrong, obviously.

:wow I was expecting something along the lines of . . .

Spurs are probably still legit contenders but until the new group forms some chemistry in working together, there is no way to know for sure until Spring.

A lot of cliche, vanilla takes from the usual suspects. It's a win-win situation. If by some miracle they win, you can pretend to have believed all along and claim that those that didn't aren't "real fans". If they lose, you can claim to have stood by "your" team all along and that those who predicted it didn't.

ffadicted

09-14-2016, 05:09 PM

They will be better than last year tbh

Solid D

09-14-2016, 06:26 PM

A lot of cliche, vanilla takes from the usual suspects. It's a win-win situation. If by some miracle they win, you can pretend to have believed all along and claim that those that didn't aren't "real fans". If they lose, you can claim to have stood by "your" team all along and that those who predicted it didn't.

Yeah, it is sort of cliché - although I didn't realize I was a suspect. I voted "Yes," though, in your very important poll. It certainly won't be a miracle if the Spurs win.

I'm not really concerned about protecting my claims. I've had my misses on guesses such as these and will admit them. In late 2014, you still thought the Spurs were a top 2 team but would need home court advantage. As I recall, you felt the Spurs could win 2 on the road in a playoff series against anyone except OKC but could not win 4 on the road...which was a fairly reasonable take at the time. But you still thought the Spurs were "good enough" at that time to win - with conditions.

Solid D

09-14-2016, 06:41 PM

Here is a quote from a thread in March 2015 entitled: Can 2014 Spurs beat the 2015 warriors?
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245428&page=3&highlight=contend

They're obviously better than the '11 Spurs, but that team was ridiculous record-wise through about three quarters of the season, the '12 Spurs ripped off one of the greatest stretches in league history and the '14 Spurs, as you've detailed, were the great playoff team of all time. Yet not once in that time (nor '13 and it's not as if that Spurs team was too shabby themselves), were they thought to be favorites, let alone overwhelming ones.

Their numbers, though impressive, are due in part to a combination of health and their best players being unable to play virtually unlimited minutes when necessary, two things those Spurs teams have never had in that time. They also have one series win under their belt, their clear cut best player is a PG and they have a rookie coach. There's no historical precedent (that I'm aware of) for this being a championship formula, yet everyone is ready to crown them.

Largely due to a combination of injuries, fatigue and sheer boredom, the Spurs haven't looked like themselves this season, yet instead of being given a well earned mulligan (funny, the Thunder have been) for those things, they've been reduced to being put in the same class as pretenders. Throw out the '12 Mavericks, who had a completely different team and they're by far the most disrespected defending champions in recent memory.

baseline bum

09-14-2016, 06:48 PM

776134862730366976

Fuck him if goes to Golden State tbh

baseline bum

09-14-2016, 06:50 PM

That's the biggest myth about last season. Duncan received most of the attention/criticism, but too many key players had declined significantly and the team had too many ill-fitting parts. By season's end, they had become, in many ways, a conventional team. With inferior star power to the other elites, that was never going to cut it.

What a load of crap, Duncan was easily 1st Team All NBA Defense before his knee got hurt and the team was having its best defensive season since like 2004.

TheDoctor

09-14-2016, 07:34 PM

All the more reason to get a :lobt2: this season.

LMAO :rollin

ElNono

09-14-2016, 08:08 PM

:wow I was expecting something along the lines of . . .

The reality is that in other seasons, this team was built in a way where it was more of a team effort than individuals. You needed to have a throwback season from one or more of Tim/Manu/Tony and then also see if the bench would gel together. With that kind of team, you could only really tell where it was going by mid-season or so.

But since at least last season (especially after TD got hurt), and especially now that TD is gone, this is strictly a top-heavy team. We're going to go as far as the top individuals take us. And it's undeniable there's a lot to prove there. Some will say that Gasol might do a better job than TD at this stage, especially hurt TD, but it's a completely different scenario. Tim was a guy that played with this core forever. I love the Pau signing, but there's going to be a learning curve, and chemistry stuff to work on, and another big question mark there.

IMO, the bench is probably the biggest question mark. They could be pretty good or atrocious. That's why it's hard to realistically count on them being above average at this point.

wildbill2u

09-14-2016, 08:53 PM

I believe because I am a fan. I have hopes because I am an optimist and am excited about the new faces. I have doubts because I am a realist and we have too many new pieces and some older pieces that could break at any time. I am excited because the new season is almost here and look at the fun we will have discussing all our hopes, fears, doubts and excitement. I can't wait.

gambit1990

09-14-2016, 08:55 PM

So easy, even Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) got this. :lol
:lol

don't give him too much credit, even a broken clock is right twice a day :lol

gambit1990

09-14-2016, 09:25 PM

i don't see the cavs winning it. unless lebron has another absolutely stellar finals again. he didn't have kawhi guarding him though.

i don't see kerr losing to them again.

spurs are contenders.

SAGirl

09-14-2016, 09:39 PM

The reality is that in other seasons, this team was built in a way where it was more of a team effort than individuals. You needed to have a throwback season from one or more of Tim/Manu/Tony and then also see if the bench would gel together. With that kind of team, you could only really tell where it was going by mid-season or so.

But since at least last season (especially after TD got hurt), and especially now that TD is gone, this is strictly a top-heavy team. We're going to go as far as the top individuals take us. And it's undeniable there's a lot to prove there. Some will say that Gasol might do a better job than TD at this stage, especially hurt TD, but it's a completely different scenario. Tim was a guy that played with this core forever. I love the Pau signing, but there's going to be a learning curve, and chemistry stuff to work on, and another big question mark there.

IMO, the bench is probably the biggest question mark. They could be pretty good or atrocious. That's why it's hard to realistically count on them being above average at this point.
The thing with Pau too is that he's similar to Tim but not the same where it matters. Tim in his last stages was a blue collar/screener/passer. He only finished plays in PnR for the most part and saved his juice for the playoffs the past couple of seasons. You knew--I knew he had another gear. Pau it's unknown how he will contribute on the defensive end, so it's not the same as Tim who was ever so consistent defensively. The team will miss him. LMA May need to hit another gear if he can. However, when it comes to guys and their defense that's one thing for sure that J can say: "in Pop I trust".

Frankly no one will say it but the team needs not one but about three of the youngest players to step up and not in a stand in the corner hit a 3 when you get the ball way. They are needed to be aggressive and engineer their own stuff too. They are young but I believe in these dudes bc I am a fan. My schtick is not "I told you all so... " but I would love for you all to tell me: yea SaGirl you told us all so, only bc that means the team scaled a heck of a mountain and at least some youngsters busted into the scene as a factor. It would be nice if that happens bc it's always easier to sign your own guys than try to pry a player from somewhere else. I do believe Kyle will be hitting the 3 and looking to score and if there's one thing J.Simms can do is get to the cup or get fouled.

Now the other youngsters are rookies, so I don't include them in my hopes. Maybe Bertans has Marci Belinelli sized balls and can get in a game for a few minutes and hut a couple of shots, well see with him. In reality they are all unknown but that's how the Blazers entered last season with a bunch of unknowns and a whole lot of their guys got better (then cost a hefty sum to keep but that's the business). That's the best possible outcome not just for us fans, but for the team a d the current younger core bc these guys are young and can help the team for several years.

I don't expect guys that don't like these youngster to have much faith. Ultimately there's no vanilla take here or cliche. I really just hope like a team fan that these,guys grow up and improve as players, same as every fan for every other team is wondering whether youngster X or Y is going to take his game to the next level.

Edit: some things here were in reply to TD21, just didn't have the ease to quote different ppl from my tablet. Sorry Nono, to quote you when some things here were not direct reply. Things like cliches and vanilla takes were in response to TD21. I don't think it's cliche to hope some of these guys improve its actually unnatural IMO for a fan not to hope some guys who are still very young grow up as players.

GSH

09-14-2016, 09:57 PM

They would have been a title contender last year with a healthy Duncan. Now they're not, the defense is going to be much worse with Gasol taking his place and the bench is the weakest it has been since the RMJ/Finley/Bogans era.

I said last season that once Tim/Manu retire, we wouldn't contend for a while. I don't see the additions this season changing that outlook.

Hope to be wrong, obviously.

Two words: Davis Fuckng Bertans

:D

SAGirl

09-14-2016, 10:28 PM

What a load of crap, Duncan was easily 1st Team All NBA Defense before his knee got hurt and the team was having its best defensive season since like 2004.
Not only that, there's just no way they lose to OKC with the TD that showed up for the Clippers series 2015. When you lose that TD and instead are stuck with D west from 2016 that's what happens.

024

09-14-2016, 10:44 PM

Spurs are still a top 5 team. But the difference between the top team and the rest is huge. And there is another big gap between the second best team and the tier that the Spurs is on.

dabom

09-14-2016, 10:44 PM

17 faggots on this thread so far. IDGAF. :lol

SAGirl

09-14-2016, 10:50 PM

Two words: Davis Fuckng Bertans

:D
I don't know why TD 21 keeps rehashing 3 pt shooting when the team added a sniper that really that's all he does:Bertans. Manu was really a sniper/cutter last part of the season. Mills is a sniper that just needs a screen to fire and I wouldn't expect Danny to stay at 33%. Kyle shot 43% from 3 over the summer in about 4 attempts per game. Short sample yes, but he hit over 50% from those same spots in college. Kawhi's had a career year last season. Frankly of the perimeter players only J.Simms and Tony don't shoot the 3 and they can make them but don't take a lot. Their thing should be to get to the basket when they are in the game anyways. Heck even Pay is hitting the friking 3. Unless TD 21 expect a down years from several ppl if looks like they will hit the 3 nor frequently. The game is nog just 3 pt shooting though so there's that. My only pessimism is Tony (and Manu to a lesser degree, just bc he'll be nearly 40 and as TD showed us, this late in their careers a year's difference is a lot.)

ElNono

09-14-2016, 11:05 PM

Two words: Davis Fuckng Bertans

:D

that's three words, tbh :wakeup

Chinook

09-14-2016, 11:41 PM

The Spurs a better than Cleveland. That's enough. All this other shit is just overthinking things. They have their holes, but they still have a high ceiling. Parker and Manu just have to hit it.

Solid D

09-15-2016, 12:44 AM

As for me, I am not into a Cartesian theatrics bathed in skepticism and doubt regarding the Spurs' future. Contenders until otherwise proven, for me.

benefactor

09-15-2016, 06:38 AM

I voted "Yes," though, in your very important poll.
:lol

GSH

09-15-2016, 10:52 AM

that's three words, tbh :wakeup

LOL... yeah, that was sort of the point. I guess I should have put it in blue? I was joking about Bertans making up for the loss of a healthy Tim Duncan.

Maybe I should have said "Ryan Fucking Richards"?

GSH

09-15-2016, 11:02 AM

Like Chinook said, Tony and Manu just have to hit it. And Pau. And Danny needs to get his 3P shot going again. And Kyle needs to step up to the next level. Dedmon is still sort of an unknown, but he definitely needs to live up to everyone's hopes. And Patty needs to be at his best.

Any help from Bertans will just be a bonus.

ElNono

09-15-2016, 03:29 PM

LOL... yeah, that was sort of the point. I guess I should have put it in blue? I was joking about Bertans making up for the loss of a healthy Tim Duncan.

Maybe I should have said "Ryan Fucking Richards"?

Oh, that WAS the joke... nevermind... :lol

G-Dawgg

09-15-2016, 04:34 PM

Keep hoping...

BillMc

09-15-2016, 04:52 PM

BillMc

09-15-2016, 04:53 PM

Two words: Davis Fuckng Bertans

:D

:toast (though, that's actually three words, even in Latvian).

Edit: Just saw you were joking. Too bad. I'm hoping from some serious contributions "Pop willing" from him.

SAGirl

09-15-2016, 05:01 PM

We're contenders. What some people here need to feel secure about their team is being "heavy favorites to win it all" which the Spurs are clearly not. But they are one of about 4 teams that realistically could win it, which obviously makes them contenders.

This is probably the best summary of the situation. Too many guys in the team that are unknown to be flat out favorites not just bc of the superteam (but the old guys are a bit injury prone and can't be taken for granted, and then the too young guys are uknown). LMA, Kawhi, Pau, Danny etc makes the team contenders but the the others are X factors.

TD 21

09-15-2016, 05:03 PM

Yeah, it is sort of cliché - although I didn't realize I was a suspect. I voted "Yes," though, in your very important poll. It certainly won't be a miracle if the Spurs win.

I'm not really concerned about protecting my claims. I've had my misses on guesses such as these and will admit them. In late 2014, you still thought the Spurs were a top 2 team but would need home court advantage. As I recall, you felt the Spurs could win 2 on the road in a playoff series against anyone except OKC but could not win 4 on the road...which was a fairly reasonable take at the time. But you still thought the Spurs were "good enough" at that time to win - with conditions.

Here is a quote from a thread in March 2015 entitled: Can 2014 Spurs beat the 2015 warriors?
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245428&page=3&highlight=contend

Yeah, because I said it was "very important".

With this level of guard play and how poorly they match-up with a team they're going to have to go through, it would take a miracle for the Spurs to win.

But you're not making a guess and instead are defaulting to attempting to cover your bases either way.

You're misconstruing what I said on two counts: I said sometime around late '14 - early '15 and that they could win a series, maybe even two without home court, but not four and at that time, it looked like it would have to be three or four.

If you're going to try to pull a "gotcha!", try harder.

What a load of crap, Duncan was easily 1st Team All NBA Defense before his knee got hurt and the team was having its best defensive season since like 2004.

Yet they always had offensive issues (no lead creator for a championship level team, a lack of volume three-point shooting, a lack of rollers and a glacial pace) that were clearly going to be their undoing at some point in the playoffs.

The reality is that in other seasons, this team was built in a way where it was more of a team effort than individuals. You needed to have a throwback season from one or more of Tim/Manu/Tony and then also see if the bench would gel together. With that kind of team, you could only really tell where it was going by mid-season or so.

But since at least last season (especially after TD got hurt), and especially now that TD is gone, this is strictly a top-heavy team. We're going to go as far as the top individuals take us. And it's undeniable there's a lot to prove there. Some will say that Gasol might do a better job than TD at this stage, especially hurt TD, but it's a completely different scenario. Tim was a guy that played with this core forever. I love the Pau signing, but there's going to be a learning curve, and chemistry stuff to work on, and another big question mark there.

IMO, the bench is probably the biggest question mark. They could be pretty good or atrocious. That's why it's hard to realistically count on them being above average at this point.

:tu

I don't know why TD 21 keeps rehashing 3 pt shooting when the team added a sniper that really that's all he does:Bertans.

Bertans won't be in the rotation and talk of Anderson/Simmons improvement is strictly speculative.

Three-point shooting is especially important to this team because they haven't been able to get to the line in ages and without being proficient in at least one of the two, it's not possible to have an explosive offense and in this era, you need that to win a championship.

The Spurs a better than Cleveland. That's enough. All this other shit is just overthinking things. They have their holes, but they still have a high ceiling. Parker and Manu just have to hit it.

That's irrelevant if they're not capable of getting to them and they're not clearly better. They're a better regular season team, but the Cavaliers are more suited for the playoffs.

Parker and Ginobili are no longer capable of fulfilling the role they need at least one of them to fill. They'll be lucky to replicate last season, let alone improve.

BillMc

09-15-2016, 05:24 PM

objective

09-15-2016, 05:25 PM

I voted 'no'

They're too dependent on factors outside their direct control like injuries to the Warriors or unusual improvements from Kawhi to an even higher level or Anderson or Simmons, or unexpected and unlikely comebacks from Manu & Parker.

Further hamstringing them is Pop's choices. Limiting Kawhi's minutes in the playoffs, overplaying guys who can't cut it, refusing to play others because of how that "wouldn't be fair" to the experienced scrubs, etc.

That's just too much. If Curry or Durant are out for the playoffs, then they have a somewhat reasonable chance.

Spurs couldn't hang with the Warriors last year, going to be much worse this year. Parker and Mills can't play against GS at all. No one to hide them on anymore. Both get shredded by Curry. Hell, both get stomped in the post by Livingston. And if McCaw gets in the rotation, he'll dump all over them too.

SAGirl

09-15-2016, 05:27 PM

Bertans won't be in the rotation and talk of Anderson/Simmons improvement is strictly speculative.

Three-point shooting is especially important to this team because they haven't been able to get to the line in ages and without being proficient in at least one of the two, it's not possible to have an explosive offense and in this era, you need that to win a championship.
You have a good point in the speculative nature, but such is the situation of all pre-season predictions. Bounce back season for Danny (speculation), Kyle shooting more 3s (speculation) Ginobili at 39 (by its very nature of aging can't be taken for granted in minutes or production, so speculation), Bertans playing or not playing (speculation), JSimms production as a whole and 3's specially (speculation). But notice all these guys have shot the 3 before (some very well). It's not like predicting Lee or Dedmon will shoot the 3 (ridiculous and baseless).

Plus, the bench is replacing pick and pop long 2 from D'West or Diaw, with guys who, if they are in the game will pop from 3. That alone will make a difference. That was how they played Anderson in SL and Bertans. I don't expect them to go back to the long 2 in the bench (unknown with the starters as Aldridge likes the long 2). Probably the most significant improvement in 3 pt shooting should come from Danny bouncing back and Anderson and Bertans eating up the former DWest/Diaw long 2 shots.

Also, the expectations for Kyle are not unreasonable. He's shot very well from the spots they had him shoot previously in his life. This is not like predicting Lee will shoot a 3 all of a sudden. It's unknown with Bertans, so many things could happen that push him in the rotation (others guys not performing well, injuries, his own good play, etc. but obviously he's a rook so it's speculative)

From there on, I would say the odds are at least in favor of the team in general being a better 3 pt shooting team than last season's team. How guys will do individually of course is entering into the realm of speculation either on the positive or the negative side. I like to enter the season looking at the positive side.

You have a good point on the importance of 3 pt shooting for this team though in that they don't look to get to the line, etc. It is indeed a very important factor. When they have been explosive several guys were getting hot from 3.

Chinook

09-15-2016, 05:41 PM

This whole "Only GS can win" attitude is the dumbest thing I've ever seen on this forum, and this is Spurstalk for fuck's sake. The Spurs can beat the Warriors. They simply have to play well. That's it. It's not fucking alchemy. They aren't moving a damned mountain. It's just a basketball team. The Mavs versus the Heatles was a bigger on-paper mismatch than the Spurs versus the Warriors.

The Warriors needed seven games to beat the third-best team in the West last year and lost to the third- or fourth-best team in the league. Get out of here with this college-football mentality.

BillMc

09-15-2016, 05:51 PM

A lot of cliche, vanilla takes from the usual suspects. It's a win-win situation. If by some miracle they win, you can pretend to have believed all along and claim that those that didn't aren't "real fans". If they lose, you can claim to have stood by "your" team all along and that those who predicted it didn't.

I see it as the reverse. Those who constantly say the Spurs can't win are just playing the numbers so they can shout "I told you so!" and wax their anti-player X agendas, should the Spurs fall short, and, if the Spurs do win they know everyone will be too elated to call them out on it, and, even if they do it will be lost under the euphoria. It happened with all the doom sayers after 2013, who were all too happy to celebrate 2014.

A certain poster (who shall remain nameless), for example, circa 2011, made the bold prediction that the Spurs would never win another championship with Manu on the team. In 2014 he was celebrating along with everyone else, with not a word about his prediction.

Since no franchise wins the title nearly every year since the 60's Celtics, the naysayers and nilists get to feel "right" most the time, they know that game, while others are talking about how the Spurs COULD take the LOB in any given year, even if the odds are stacked against them. I guess those with a positive attitude are vanilla.

BillMc

09-15-2016, 05:53 PM

dabom

09-15-2016, 06:27 PM

I see it as the reverse. Those who constantly say the Spurs can't win are just playing the numbers so they can shout "I told you so!" and wax their anti-player X agendas, should the Spurs fall short, and, if the Spurs do win they know everyone will be too elated to call them out on it, and, even if they do it will be lost under the euphoria. It happened with all the doom sayers after 2013, who were all too happy to celebrate 2014.

A certain poster (who shall remain nameless), for example, circa 2011, made the bold prediction that the Spurs would never win another championship with Manu on the team. In 2014 he was celebrating along with everyone else, with not a word about his prediction.

Since no franchise wins the title nearly every year since the 60's Celtics, the naysayers and nilists get to feel "right" most the time, they know that game, while others are talking about how the Spurs COULD take the LOB in any given year, even if the odds are stacked against them. I guess those with a positive attitude are vanilla.

Amen to this. No one really cares enough to call out another poster when we win.

SAGirl

09-15-2016, 07:02 PM

GSW has their issues too. They have redundancies. They added more of what they already had and were good at, at the cost of further weakening areas that they were poor at when Bogut was injured (and now they don't have Bogut). They will be vulnerable in the paint, dribble penetration will kill them, will give up second chance points, will fail at times to get defensive boards, potentially they will face stars getting in foul trouble, their bigs don't rebound, or defend well in the paint (DWest?) etc. They are a jumpshooting team that will go on insane hot streaks and then face nights when they can't stop fouling or stop anybody themselves and their jumpshots are not falling. They might not even be as good as last season's team. They have their vulnerabilities.

That is why I just based my own opinion on the Spurs themselves and the Spurs own vulnerabilities. Obviously, no team is without weaknesses, that is why the games are played.

objective (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4663) has a pessimistic view but I shared some of that pessimism sometimes. Pop puzzles me to no end. I almost feel he will sacrifice Bertans and Anderson both in the "altar of Lee." He will let Tony and Mills indeed get eaten alive b4 he tries something else. I also feel like he is extremely capable of still going through Tony/Manu when it counts, even though he shouldn't. It's actually frankly very pathetic when I get into that mood paying attention to Pop's headscratching decisions.

I said it before and perhaps will say it again. The whole thing is on Pop, then how he adjusts the team to the current talent he has and manages expectations for Tony and Manu. From the beginning I said, I was positive about everything and everyone in the team except Tony, Manu and Pop knowing when enough is enough.

ElNono

09-15-2016, 07:21 PM

I see it as the reverse. Those who constantly say the Spurs can't win are just playing the numbers so they can shout "I told you so!" and wax their anti-player X agendas, should the Spurs fall short, and, if the Spurs do win they know everyone will be too elated to call them out on it, and, even if they do it will be lost under the euphoria. It happened with all the doom sayers after 2013, who were all too happy to celebrate 2014.

A certain poster (who shall remain nameless), for example, circa 2011, made the bold prediction that the Spurs would never win another championship with Manu on the team. In 2014 he was celebrating along with everyone else, with not a word about his prediction.

Since no franchise wins the title nearly every year since the 60's Celtics, the naysayers and nilists get to feel "right" most the time, they know that game, while others are talking about how the Spurs COULD take the LOB in any given year, even if the odds are stacked against them. I guess those with a positive attitude are vanilla.

It's clearly the easier option to pick "no", because, as you say, the odds are always with you. But that shouldn't preclude discussing why yes or why no (or even why maybe).

I already made my case, which I think it's pretty similar to what objective posted. Way more "ifs" than other seasons, IMO.

Solid D

09-15-2016, 08:28 PM

Yeah, because I said it was "very important".

Kind of spinning it but I get the fact the Spurs blew their chances by dropping to the 6th seed at the end that year, but you still thought the Spurs were contenders and not pretenders on March 15th of 2015. You thought they were worthy of that respect nationally following their 2014 championship, and in their defense as being good enough as a contender you believed that "Largely due to a combination of injuries, fatigue and sheer boredom," the Spurs had not looked like themselves in 2014-15. Still, you thought they were at least a contender back then and worthy of such respect:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245428&p=7874584&viewfull=1#post7874584

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245428&p=7875279&viewfull=1#post7875279

I know, but after the show they put on in the Finals and considering who they did it against, I thought they'd finally receive the proper amount of respect . . . and they did until December-January. This in a league where the defending champion is often given too much respect. If this were the Heat or Lakers, the vast majority would be giving them the benefit of the doubt and bringing up what I brought up about the Warriors.

The Spurs, Thunder (depending on Durant, as you said) and in the East, the Cavs. That's not any different than any other season though, [B]as far as the number of legitimate contenders.

The points you're making about the Spurs I've made myself over the past few months, but I'm talking nationally, the Spurs should be receiving the level of respect the Warriors are and vice versa.

A few other things about the Warriors: 1) I know it's cliche, but they've faced no adversity. Who knows how they'll respond if the Thunder have them down 2-1 in a series, for example. 2) They weren't supposed to be in the position they're in and have never been in the role of favorites. Deep down, even they've got to be wondering if they're really this good and truly better than the Spurs and Thunder.

Anyway, I think they are contenders this year and you don't. The odds are against the Spurs and they are not the favorites but we are not debating that one.

Chomag

09-15-2016, 08:28 PM

Kind of late to the party but I think the Spurs are definitely still an elite team but not a championship team. It would take key injuries to 2-3 top teams to put the Spurs at the top. Anything could happen down the road of course but if talking about current states this is how I'm seeing it.

TD 21

09-17-2016, 06:35 PM

You have a good point in the speculative nature, but such is the situation of all pre-season predictions. Bounce back season for Danny (speculation), Kyle shooting more 3s (speculation) Ginobili at 39 (by its very nature of aging can't be taken for granted in minutes or production, so speculation), Bertans playing or not playing (speculation), JSimms production as a whole and 3's specially (speculation). But notice all these guys have shot the 3 before (some very well). It's not like predicting Lee or Dedmon will shoot the 3 (ridiculous and baseless).

Plus, the bench is replacing pick and pop long 2 from D'West or Diaw, with guys who, if they are in the game will pop from 3. That alone will make a difference. That was how they played Anderson in SL and Bertans. I don't expect them to go back to the long 2 in the bench (unknown with the starters as Aldridge likes the long 2). Probably the most significant improvement in 3 pt shooting should come from Danny bouncing back and Anderson and Bertans eating up the former DWest/Diaw long 2 shots.

Also, the expectations for Kyle are not unreasonable. He's shot very well from the spots they had him shoot previously in his life. This is not like predicting Lee will shoot a 3 all of a sudden. It's unknown with Bertans, so many things could happen that push him in the rotation (others guys not performing well, injuries, his own good play, etc. but obviously he's a rook so it's speculative)

The difference is, Green had a 4 season run as an elite three-point shooter, is only 29 and hasn't suffered a career altering injury, so there's good reason to think it was just an off season, for whatever reason(s).

I doubt Anderson and/or Simmons suddenly morph into high percentage/volume three-point shooters and a few Summer League games damn sure isn't sufficient evidence.

Sure, Bertans could end up a rotation player at some point, but he doesn't project as one coming in and it's unlikely he ends up one.

Kind of spinning it but I get the fact the Spurs blew their chances by dropping to the 6th seed at the end that year, but you still thought the Spurs were contenders and not pretenders on March 15th of 2015. You thought they were worthy of that respect nationally following their 2014 championship, and in their defense as being good enough as a contender you believed that "Largely due to a combination of injuries, fatigue and sheer boredom," the Spurs had not looked like themselves in 2014-15. Still, you thought they were at least a contender back then and worthy of such respect:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245428&p=7874584&viewfull=1#post7874584

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245428&p=7875279&viewfull=1#post7875279

Anyway, I think they are contenders this year and you don't. The odds are against the Spurs and they are not the favorites but we are not debating that one.

That was about the media, for the most part, owing them more respect and my not being sold on any particular team dethroning them.

Keep trying.

I see it as the reverse. Those who constantly say the Spurs can't win are just playing the numbers so they can shout "I told you so!" and wax their anti-player X agendas, should the Spurs fall short, and, if the Spurs do win they know everyone will be too elated to call them out on it, and, even if they do it will be lost under the euphoria. It happened with all the doom sayers after 2013, who were all too happy to celebrate 2014.

I guess those with a positive attitude are vanilla.

I'm not "playing the numbers". I'm saying, they can't beat the Warriors, minus multiple significant injuries to them. Given that they're a lock (again, with that same caveat) to be in the WCF, that means the Spurs can't win the championship.

It's false hope though (something cliche, vanilla fans inexplicably think they have to cling to), as evidenced by the lack of reasons as to why they can win the championship.

This whole "Only GS can win" attitude is the dumbest thing I've ever seen on this forum, and this is Spurstalk for fuck's sake. The Spurs can beat the Warriors. They simply have to play well. That's it. It's not fucking alchemy. They aren't moving a damned mountain. It's just a basketball team. The Mavs versus the Heatles was a bigger on-paper mismatch than the Spurs versus the Warriors.

The Warriors needed seven games to beat the third-best team in the West last year and lost to the third- or fourth-best team in the league. Get out of here with this college-football mentality.

Nah, West being a starting center easily beats it.

I've given a bunch of reasons as to why I think they can't; you haven't given a single reason as to why you think they can. Cliche nonsense like "play well" doesn't count.

WCF: Curry clearly wasn't physically right, the Thunder matched up well with them and had superior star power to the Spurs.

Finals: Curry still not physically right, Iguodala not physically right the final two games, Bogut out most of game 6 and all of game 7, Green suspended for game 5, they matched up decently and had/have superior star power to the Spurs.

spurs10

09-17-2016, 06:58 PM

Solid D

09-17-2016, 09:37 PM

That was about the media, for the most part, owing them more respect and my not being sold on any particular team dethroning them.

Keep trying.

No trying needed. People who care, can read what you said at face value and see for themselves. Spin is just spin and people see through it.

Obi Juan Kenobi

09-17-2016, 09:40 PM

The question is asking if they are contenders...not if they are the favorites...

Obi Juan Kenobi

09-17-2016, 09:41 PM

SAGirl

09-18-2016, 02:08 AM

The question is asking if they are contenders...not if they are the favorites...
A very important point. Frankly though I discussed the bench a whole lot the biggest questions for the playoffs bottom line are in the SL. As much as I chatted with TD 21 about the bench and the 3 pt shooting, the rotation will be cut short in the playoffs and its up to the stars to take the team home. It's Kawhi and LMA team and its on them. It's why I stated somewhere else that if Kawhi doesn't develop as a playmaker the team will be in trouble. Tony and Manu are not who they were and so go missing for games in the playoffs. If Kawhi and the other stars don't have it that is that. No one blames the roleplayers when teams underachive, it's on the coach and the stars bottom line. Roleplayers need to be set up and Tony and Manu are roleplayers right now. Hopefully Pop sees that and tries to address it somehow.

gambit1990

09-18-2016, 03:19 AM

if Kawhi doesn't develop as a playmaker the team will be in trouble.
parker starting/his style of play impedes kawhi's development as a player and playmaker.

the trouble with the team is tony.

sexinthatsx

09-18-2016, 05:00 PM

It's sad to say, but when we have Lamarcus Aldridge on the team, it automatically means second-round exit.

spursistan

09-18-2016, 05:23 PM

It's sad to say, but when we have Lamarcus Aldridge on the team, it automatically means second-round exit.
:wow

dbreiden83080

09-18-2016, 07:31 PM

They'll have a good record again. Maybe 55 or so wins. But no..

MultiTroll

09-22-2016, 11:45 AM

I said last season that once Tim/Manu retire, we wouldn't contend for a while. I don't see the additions this season changing that outlook.

Hope to be wrong, obviously.
About a 90% chance we'll be outcoached in the playoffs.
Unless Pop retires, we won't contend for a while.
Hope to be wrong, obviously. 2014 :wow

Curious to see what kind of shape and effort SoftRidge will put in on D.

ceperez

09-23-2016, 09:30 AM

Just as long as Spurs make it to the WCF then they have a chance. The odds are really high that they make the WCF, now with OKC crippled and no other Western team upgrading.

If either Curry or Durant are injured, then the chances are even that Spurs can beat GSW.

The Spurs are definitely as good as the Cavs.

SAGirl

09-23-2016, 11:20 PM

parker starting/his style of play impedes kawhi's development as a player and playmaker.

the trouble with the team is tony.

Tony is who he is and he is the age he is. It's on Pop to make adjustments and Kawhi has to be more vocal too. We can't continue to blame Tony for everything bad that goes under the sun. If there is something missing for the Spurs is that he can no longer be the player he was and sometimes the team misses that, but nobody else except Dijon once he matures a little bit has that quickness and ability to go by past someone and create havoc off the dribble like Tony used to. It's really on Pop at this point how he addresses that.

Tony is not going to bench himself or not execute what the coach wants and I am not defending Tony, but something has got to give with Pop IMO.

gambit1990

09-25-2016, 02:29 AM

We can't continue to blame Tony for everything bad that goes under the sun.
i've never blamed tony for everything. but i will blame tp for being tp.

it's amazing how much people don't understand his detrimentally.

HarlemHeat37

09-26-2016, 07:10 PM

It's sad to say, but when we have Lamarcus Aldridge on the team, it automatically means second-round exit.

:lol Yep, forever a loser..

SAGirl

09-26-2016, 08:34 PM

Lebron schooling dudes:
780526891602030593

Ice009

09-26-2016, 11:12 PM

Exactly what I've been saying. If you have a chance to compete for a Championship, that is all you can ask for.

SnakeBoy

09-26-2016, 11:18 PM

We'll be better than last year.

YGWHI

09-27-2016, 12:12 AM

We can't continue to blame Tony for everything bad that goes under the sun.
In fact, we can.

Pop made it clear, Parker and Manu, both are the Spurs leaders, not Kawhi/LMA.

"I think those two guys will pick up more of the slack, I’ll look to them to communicate with players..."

So if something goes bad they should take the blame, 'cause their big power as leaders carries a great deal of responsibility in the team success.

MultiTroll

09-27-2016, 01:22 AM

We still have a roster that is contender worthy and Pop can coach in the regular season, so based on that I voted yes.

Now as to what happens in the playoffs.....

Ice009

09-27-2016, 04:15 AM

We still have a roster that is contender worthy and Pop can coach in the regular season, so based on that I voted yes.

Now as to what happens in the playoffs.....

I mean, sure we're not the favourites or anything, but what do people around here expect? Is no-one here going to be happy if the Spurs aren't the favourites going into the season? That's being spoiled and taking it for granted.

I'll use 2003 as an example - That season I had no idea what was going to happen going into it, but I thought the Spurs had a chance to do something even though Pop said it was a rebuilding year. I liked the mix of young players like Manu, Jackson and Claxton with the older players such as Kerr returning and adding a vet like Kevin Willis. We were looking to start with Steve Smith going into the season and it didn't look too good before the season started. We were nowhere near being the favourites before that season started. Spurs have a similar chance and outlook going into this season as they did that one. I just don't understand what people around here want.

How can you not be happy with having a chance? I'd rather take out a Superteam than always looking to form one just to feel comfortable going into the season. I love what Dewayne Dedmon said a month or so ago where he said he'd rather beat a team like the Warriors than join them. That's the kind of players and attitude that I'm looking for. That attitude reminds me a little bit of a young Stephen Jackson. It's kind of a weird coincidence that he's going to wear number 3. Hopefully he can put it all together and be a huge asset/key player for the Spurs. Hopefully a lot of these young players can put it all together this season for the Spurs. Should be an exciting season IMO.

SAGirl

09-27-2016, 10:42 AM

In fact, we can.

Pop made it clear, Parker and Manu, both are the Spurs leaders, not Kawhi/LMA.

"I think those two guys will pick up more of the slack, I’ll look to them to communicate with players..."

So if something goes bad they should take the blame, 'cause their big power as leaders carries a great deal of responsibility in the team success.

I saw those interviews and he meant it in the sense of on the bus, in hotels, etc, try to make others comfortable, incorporate them into the team, establish good chemistry, bc ppl learn easier when they are in a comfortable situation. Almost exactly what Pop said. They also both (Tony and Manu) meant it in terms of teaching the "Spurs way", how they do things, the fact that they place winning and competing for a championship above any personal accolade or personal frustration. One thing that Pop said, is that every time they won a championship, those teams were special and had a lot of chemistry. It's going to be a challenge for a new team with so much turnover, and so many rookies to have that special chemistry and it will require extra effort from all the veterans in making all these dudes feel an integral part of the team.

LMA and Pau also talked about leadership. LMA seems to keep mostly to himself, while Pau is more active and and will get involved when the team faces adversity. Overall, it seems like it will be a collective effort, which might just seem magnified this season because Tim retired, who was the ultimate glue guy and teammate and made everyone feel welcome. How many times did we see Tim just offer comfort or advice to the scrubbiest of dudes in the team? How many times Tim cheered and congratulated his young teammates for a nice play? He's a HoF player, and so many of Tim's former teammates have come out saying how Tim made them feel like they could accomplish anything on the court (S.JaX one of the biggest loudmouths and still swears by Tim, but there were so many, including youngsters still playing in this team). I think that is the kind of leadership that they will be missing and Pop just motivated all the veterans in the team to step in.

Bottom line, I think Pop continues to hope that Kawhi becomes more talkative and make others feel comfortable playing with him etc., but he's still not outgoing enough for what the team needs right now. He's not a guy who is going to be reaching out to others, encouraging others, etc. And all of those things establish good team chemistry.

Chinook

09-27-2016, 10:56 AM

SAGirl

09-27-2016, 12:13 PM

The Spurs' rotation is filled with vets who, with the exceptions of LMA, Anderson and Dedmon, have all won titles. They don't need leadership as much as people are implying. They all know what they are supposed to do. Any of them can be leaders.
I think it was meant in the way Tim made everyone feel welcome, how he knew to offer an encouraging word to someone who was struggling, etc. That may never be replaced, it was a personal quality of Tim, but he was able to lift others when they needed it, thus preventing cancerous feelings from erupting, you know what I mean? A lot of former teammates have talked about that quality from Tim and Danny and Anderson from the current Spurs have both mentioned how Tim was able to offer support when they went through their own struggles, which all young players go through.

Chinook

09-27-2016, 12:54 PM

I think it was meant in the way Tim made everyone feel welcome, how he knew to offer an encouraging word to someone who was struggling, etc. That may never be replaced, it was a personal quality of Tim, but he was able to lift others when they needed it, thus preventing cancerous feelings from erupting, you know what I mean? A lot of former teammates have talked about that quality from Tim and Danny and Anderson from the current Spurs have both mentioned how Tim was able to offer support when they went through their own struggles, which all young players go through.

Tim's obviously one of a kind. But I was just saying that Pop doesn't have to enforce leadership on anyone. Green and Leonard are considered to be relatively new guys still, but they've be more tenured that the large majority of players on other teams. Our perspective is often skewed as Spurs fans, but there is no real absence of experience or continuity with Tim gone. I have no doubt that with guys like Mills on the team, they'll be all right chemistry-wise.

SAGirl

09-27-2016, 02:38 PM

Tim's obviously one of a kind. But I was just saying that Pop doesn't have to enforce leadership on anyone. Green and Leonard are considered to be relatively new guys still, but they've be more tenured that the large majority of players on other teams. Our perspective is often skewed as Spurs fans, but there is no real absence of experience or continuity with Tim gone. I have no doubt that with guys like Mills on the team, they'll be all right chemistry-wise.

Ok. ESSAY time!
POP makes a big deal of it and all the veterans that spoke to the media talked about it, but they all have their style. Pop has talked about Kawhi and leadership multiple times so I think it's important for Pop at least and he has tried to get Kawhi to be more involved with teammates. What happens there we will just have to see during this and future seasons.

Obviously they haven't lost as much chemistry as one would have thought bc they still have a core that has been together for many seasons and been through a lot. Like you said, the most significant rotation guys with the exception of the guys you mentioned above are veterans with experience and former NBA champions. But in perspective, it's for the youngsters. Both Kawhi and Danny himself were once schooled by the big 3 and saw what winning took. Some rookies might not be significant for this season but are part of the team's future and they start getting schooled in the Spurs way from their first year.

But it's more than that. I definitely think for Anderson for example, when he was in the dleague and benched in a suit as a rookie it was probably hard to get focused and keep in perspective that his work was important for future seasons, or even feel like a relevant part of the team back then, but he got the best example in Cojo, who was still in the team at the time. Cojo even called to check up on Anderson while he was in the dleague on the road for weeks at a time, bc I saw it on Anderson's tweet account, how grateful he was CoJo checked up on him. Diaw also went to one of his dleague games. So even though we hardly saw him his rookie season, he was made to feel a part of the team by veterans back then and the guys cared how he was doing. The chemistry in last season's team was special with teammates supporting Ray Mccallum and Boban too while they were in the dleague, the same way.

Anderson also saw how Cojo and Mills helped and encouraged each other even though they competed for playing time and he's done the same with Simmons now, keeping positive and now setting an example for the rookies. Simmons gave an interview about that. That's the example that these rookies see. So I think it's at all levels. They probably feel more comfortable asking questions to J.Simms and Anderson anyways than Kawhi or Tony or Manu, but if we look further the seeds in these two Spurs were planted through a couple of prior seasons already, including the games they played with veterans who have retired or moved on. Having known and seen Tim and the team through the playoffs helps them too.

Finally, in terms of the big team, Anderson himself is young in NBA terms and he was starting to get relied on for real for the first time this past season. The team probably needs more from him. Simmons too. Do you remember how tough it was for Danny when he went cold at the most inopportune time in the playoffs? These guys haven't been through that. Heck Pop didn't even want to put the burden of scoring on Anderson at all and sank the bench in 6 games going to the same guys over and over bc they probably thought he wasn't ready. They can't afford that this season. There's definitely a youngster element. It's possible the bench will fail if they don't perform well. That's the truth bc Manu is a year older, Patty is hot/cold and the bench shouldn't rely so heavily on his long ball that he's taking double the shots everyone else together is taking and Lee doesn't bring the things they can do. The team behind them is a sea of even more raw rookies.

I bet that's where Manu's leadership in the bench will be the most needed. Not to save them from failing or coming to heroball them out of trouble, though I am sure he will find ways to help however he can at times and may still be able to do that on occasion, but overall to encourage, motivate and support when they are struggling. Like Pau said, the leadership thing is needed the most when the team faces adversity and they may in the bench. Hopefully not, but their bench is going to very young and inexperienced once you take Manu out and he will be out at times.

Bottom line, the foundation of Spurs future teams is being laid this season. There are games this season that might be dependent on the youngsters playing well, and in the future it's going to be even more on them. If anything I think the bridge between the present Spurs and the future is being built right now and it needs to be a solid foundation if Kawhi wants to reach the HoF career that he wants. On his way to his own HoF careers both DRob and TD raised the careers of a whole lot of players. Danny himself has talked about this. Kawhi (and LMA) need these guys. It's their team and if Pop looks to others to lead right now its not bc he hasn't asked Kawhi first, it's bc others have to fill in where Kawhi is lacking IMO. And maybe Tim retiring does leave a hole in that department that Pop feels only a village can fill up. Kawhi himself and Danny had Tim to support them just until this past season, now they are the ones that are supposed to support others that's how it goes. I am guessing when Tim was in the team Pop wasn't that concerned with leadership but he has now made a big deal about it to the point all veterans mentioned it.

Chinook

09-27-2016, 02:48 PM

Ok. ESSAY time!
POP makes a big deal of it and all the veterans that spoke to the media talked about it, but they all have their style. Pop has talked about Kawhi and leadership multiple times so I think it's important for Pop at least and he has tried to get Kawhi to be more involved with teammates. What happens there we will just have to see during this and future seasons.

Obviously they haven't lost as much chemistry as one would have thought bc they still have a core that has been together for many seasons and been through a lot. Like you said, the most significant rotation guys with the exception of the guys you mentioned above are veterans with experience and former NBA champions. But in perspective, it's for the youngsters. Both Kawhi and Danny himself were once schooled by the big 3 and saw what winning took. Some rookies might not be significant for this season but are part of the team's future and they start getting schooled in the Spurs way from their first year.

But it's more than that. I definitely think for Anderson for example, when he was in the dleague and benched in a suit as a rookie it was probably hard to get focused and keep in perspective that his work was important for future seasons, or even feel like a relevant part of the team back then, but he got the best example in Cojo, who was still in the team at the time. Cojo even called to check up on Anderson while he was in the dleague on the road for weeks at a time, bc I saw it on Anderson's tweet account, how grateful he was CoJo checked up on him. Diaw also went to one of his dleague games. So even though we hardly saw him his rookie season, he was made to feel a part of the team by veterans back then and the guys cared how he was doing. The chemistry in last season's team was special with teammates supporting Ray Mccallum and Boban too while they were in the dleague, the same way.

Anderson also saw how Cojo and Mills helped and encouraged each other even though they competed for playing time and he's done the same with Simmons now, keeping positive and now setting an example for the rookies. Simmons gave an interview about that. That's the example that these rookies see. So I think it's at all levels. They probably feel more comfortable asking questions to J.Simms and Anderson anyways than Kawhi or Tony or Manu, but if we look further the seeds in these two Spurs were planted through a couple of prior seasons already, including the games they played with veterans who have retired or moved on. Having known and seen Tim and the team through the playoffs helps them too.

Finally, in terms of the big team, Anderson himself is young in NBA terms and he was starting to get relied on for real for the first time this past season. The team probably needs more from him. Simmons too. Do you remember how tough it was for Danny when he went cold at the most inopportune time in the playoffs? These guys haven't been through that. Heck Pop didn't even want to put the burden of scoring on Anderson at all and sank the bench in 6 games going to the same guys over and over bc they probably thought he wasn't ready. They can't afford that this season. There's definitely a youngster element. It's possible the bench will fail if they don't perform well. That's the truth bc Manu is a year older, Patty is hot/cold and the bench shouldn't rely so heavily on his long ball that he's taking over half of the shots everyone else together is taking and Lee doesn't bring the things they can do. The team behind them is a sea of even more raw rookies.

I bet that's where Manu's leadership in the bench will be the most needed. Not to save them from failing or coming to heroball them out of trouble, though I am sure he will find ways to help however he can at times and may still be able to do that on occasion, but overall to encourage, motivate and support when they are struggling. Like Pau said, the leadership thing is needed the most when the team faces adversity and they may in the bench. Hopefully not, but their bench is going to very young and inexperienced once you take Manu out and he will be out at times.

Bottom line, the foundation of Spurs future teams is being laid this season. There are games this season that might be dependent on the youngsters playing well, and in the future it's going to be even more on them. If anything I think the bridge between the present Spurs and the future is being built right now and it needs to be a solid foundation if Kawhi wants to reach the HoF career that he wants. On his way to his own HoF careers both DRob and TD raised the careers of a whole lot of players. Danny himself has talked about this. Kawhi (and LMA) need these guys. It's their team and if Pop looks to others to lead right now its not bc he hasn't asked Kawhi first, it's bc others have to fill in where Kawhi is lacking IMO. And maybe Tim retiring does leave a hole in that department that Pop feels only a village can fill up. Kawhi himself and Danny had Tim to support them just until this past season, now they are the ones that are supposed to support others that's how it goes. I am guessing when Tim was in the team Pop wasn't that concerned with leadership but he has now made a big deal about it to the point all veterans mentioned it.

#EnsayoChica I'll have to read this after work.

SAGirl

09-27-2016, 03:11 PM

#EnsayoChica I'll have to read this after work.
:toast

TD 21

09-27-2016, 05:33 PM

I mean, sure we're not the favourites or anything, but what do people around here expect? Is no-one here going to be happy if the Spurs aren't the favourites going into the season? That's being spoiled and taking it for granted.

I haven't seen a single person convey any of this. You've either misconstrued or more likely made this up.

I'll use 2003 as an example - That season I had no idea what was going to happen going into it, but I thought the Spurs had a chance to do something even though Pop said it was a rebuilding year. I liked the mix of young players like Manu, Jackson and Claxton with the older players such as Kerr returning and adding a vet like Kevin Willis. We were looking to start with Steve Smith going into the season and it didn't look too good before the season started. We were nowhere near being the favourites before that season started. Spurs have a similar chance and outlook going into this season as they did that one. I just don't understand what people around here want.

They won in '03 because Duncan was the best player in the league and authored probably the greatest all around playoff performance of all time.

It also helped that the Lakers weren't a particular match-up issue (they were a talent issue, but it was more so a question of playing well enough) and were running on fumes from 3 straight championships.

This is exactly what I mean by cliche, vanilla takes. No actual reason(s) why they're supposedly contenders, just things like "what about '03?", "they're still one of the best teams", "super teams don't always win in year 1" and my personal favorite "they just need to play well".

tonight...you

09-27-2016, 06:48 PM

I haven't seen a single person convey any of this. You've either misconstrued or more likely made this up.

They won in '03 because Duncan was the best player in the league and authored probably the greatest all around playoff performance of all time.

It also helped that the Lakers weren't a particular match-up issue (they were a talent issue, but it was more so a question of playing well enough) and were running on fumes from 3 straight championships.

This is exactly what I mean by cliche, vanilla takes. No actual reason(s) why they're supposedly contenders, just things like "what about '03?", "they're still one of the best teams", "super teams don't always win in year 1" and my personal favorite "they just need to play well".
Hey man: They're still one of the top 3, uh 4 teams. You know super teams don't always win in year 1 anyways. This team just needs to play well and everything will sort itself out.
Now fetch me that vanilla bean... I'mma rub it all over my body 'cause I heard it was good for the skins.

look_at_g_shred

09-27-2016, 08:41 PM

Hey man: They're still one of the top 3, uh 4 teams. You know super teams don't always win in year 1 anyways. This team just needs to play well and everything will sort itself out.
Now fetch me that vanilla bean... I'mma rub it all over my body 'cause I heard it was good for the skins.
LOL

hsxvvd

09-27-2016, 08:49 PM

Durant or Curry could reaggravate their injuries.

This is, unfortunately, the only way any other team would be considered contenders.

alpha_HaZE

09-27-2016, 09:07 PM

A very important point. Frankly though I discussed the bench a whole lot the biggest questions for the playoffs bottom line are in the SL. As much as I chatted with TD 21 about the bench and the 3 pt shooting, the rotation will be cut short in the playoffs and its up to the stars to take the team home. It's Kawhi and LMA team and its on them. It's why I stated somewhere else that if Kawhi doesn't develop as a playmaker the team will be in trouble. Tony and Manu are not who they were and so go missing for games in the playoffs. If Kawhi and the other stars don't have it that is that. No one blames the roleplayers when teams underachive, it's on the coach and the stars bottom line. Roleplayers need to be set up and Tony and Manu are roleplayers right now. Hopefully Pop sees that and tries to address it somehow.

Very good points as usual! I think Pau should take some of that pressure off of Kawhi with his passing abilities and B-ball intelligence. If Pop can somehow put a strong bench unit together :)

Obstructed_View

09-27-2016, 09:56 PM

No way to tell. The 2013-2014 finals runs wouldn't have been possible without a lot of young players suddenly becoming better than most of us ever imagined. The Spurs are going to have to live by that formula, a deep, talented team that puts constant pressure on the opponent, in order to have a chance. There will need to be some surprises for that to become a reality. I'm really excited to see the evolution of the two-man game with Aldridge and Kawhi.

look_at_g_shred

09-28-2016, 09:59 AM

Pretenders if we have no production out of our bench again. Pretenders if Danny has another down season. Pretenders if Lee is going get big minutes in the post season. Pretenders if it's once again a 2 man show.

benefactor

09-28-2016, 11:57 AM

Things aren't very clear now, but we should know by the end of the playoffs.

TD 21

12-01-2016, 05:55 PM

Anyone ready to concede or is everyone going to stick to "it's early"? :wakeup

I'm at the point now where I think there's a better chance of a 1st round upset than beating the Clippers in the 2nd round.

You look at all the bottom seeds and it's not difficult to envision Westbrook, Harden and even Lillard, playing like the best player in a series.

dabom

12-01-2016, 06:03 PM

Bet we get out of the first series. If you not confident then stop posting it.

HarlemHeat37

12-01-2016, 06:08 PM

They are a fringe contender, as many of us expected, I don't think anything has changed..they may not reach their ceiling, but it's there..even with their struggles, it would still be shocking to lose in the 1st round, considering the competition..

Legit contenders: Cavs, Warriors
Fringe contenders that need some good fortune(hot shooting, cold shooting from the opposition, etc): Spurs, Clippers
The rest

Robz4000

12-01-2016, 06:11 PM

Wouldn't even call the Raptors or Celtics contenders even with a Lebron injury tbh. If that happens Chicago prolly does come out of the East.

TD 21

12-01-2016, 06:19 PM

Bet we get out of the first series. If you not confident then stop posting it.

Not what was asked and :lmao at a guy who repeatedly posts the same few things complaining about someone else being repetitive.

They are a fringe contender, as many of us expected, I don't think anything has changed..they may not reach their ceiling, but it's there..even with their struggles, it would still be shocking to lose in the 1st round, considering the competition..

Legit contenders: Cavs, Warriors
Fringe contenders that need some good fortune(hot shooting, cold shooting from the opposition, etc): Spurs, Clippers
The rest

I asked if they were legit, not fringe (as the 4th or 3rd best team, if you prefer, that goes without saying).

I'd have to see the opponent first, but I'd probably only be mildly surprised at a 1st round exit. The competition may not be great, but the star power is and I don't think there's as much of a gap between the Spurs and the next tier as most think.

HarlemHeat37

12-01-2016, 06:21 PM

The only bottom team I could see as a challenge is Houston, since Harden routinely destroys the Spurs and their style of play could cause some trouble..

I don't think OKC has any chance, same with the Jazz and Blazers..

As for your question, no, they aren't currently legit..they haven't figured out how to effectively run the Kawhi-centric offense, Aldridge doesn't look the same and their biggest problem continues to be the lack of a playmaking guard..there's a contender ceiling there, though..

spursistan

12-01-2016, 06:28 PM

Their ceiling looks low and their struggles are ominous despite getting: (a) bounceback years from Green/Mills + (b) surprising production from backup bigs Dedmon/Lee + (c) Leonard upping his offensive output (though compromising his efficiency and defense) + (d) Pau being who we thought he would be.

I don’t expect either of Anderson/Simmons will breakout in the postseason at this point.

LMA pulling his head out of his ass won’t move a lot the needle since he’s proven to be a low-impact player.

They are basically praying for one of Ginobili/Parker to turn back the clock in 4 of 7 playoffs games to threaten an upset of LAC/GSW..

HarlemHeat37

12-01-2016, 06:31 PM

The Cavs were naturally going to look like the best team(they haven't looked as good, lately, though), considering they have continuity and didn't have to implement any new pieces..they were one of the luckiest teams in NBA history, last year, but still, the same team with a potentially improved Kevin Love(weight gain, looks closer to his Wolves days)..

Warriors will still have a major flaw in the playoffs(rim protection), but they will have a much easier time reaching their ceiling than the Spurs..Durant has fit in perfectly, as expected, and Thompson's early struggles don't appear to have had anything to do with unhappiness..

Clippers have a much more complete team than the Spurs, at the moment(their recent struggles notwithstanding)..I really don't have a reason to doubt them from a basketball perspective, I just can't buy them as a legit contender, considering their history..

So, ya, Spurs don't look nearly as good as any of these 3 teams, so far, despite their nice record(their SRS is significantly worse than GS and LAC, for example)..I still believe there's a ceiling for potential contention, though..

TD 21

12-01-2016, 06:47 PM

To be clear, I'm not predicting a 1st round upset. With no key player injured, I'd pick them to beat any of those teams. I'm just saying, I think there's a better chance of them not than them beating the Clippers.

Clippers have a much more complete team than the Spurs, at the moment(their recent struggles notwithstanding)..I really don't have a reason to doubt them from a basketball perspective, I just can't buy them as a legit contender, considering their history..

So, ya, Spurs don't look nearly as good as any of these 3 teams, so far, despite their nice record(their SRS is significantly worse than GS and LAC, for example)..I still believe there's a ceiling for potential contention, though..

The Clippers have had clearly superior star power to the Spurs since '14, but now they also have continuity and desperation on them. I don't doubt them, so much I trust the Warriors overwhelming star power more. Had they not landed Durant though, I'd have given strong consideration to picking the Clippers to win the championship this season.

I don't see that ceiling. Like spursistan said, they're basically preying for one of Parker or Ginobili to turn back the clock roughly 4 times to have a chance versus the Clippers/Warriors and they've slipped too much to buy it.

ManuTastic

12-01-2016, 08:14 PM

Spurs main problem is they forget to move the ball and just go two-on-five a lot. A LOT. It's getting so that I don't like watching them any more. Realtalk.

hater

12-01-2016, 08:29 PM

Hahahahahahahahahahaahahaahah

Championship contendrs???? Hahahahahaahahahahaahahahaahahaahah

99 Problems

12-02-2016, 03:07 AM

Well here tis the thing. Once a week we look sh#t, but outside of that we hanging in there tbh.

cutewizard

12-02-2016, 07:16 AM

Houston beat GS today!

Yiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiihhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaa aaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Raven

12-02-2016, 07:35 AM

just enjoy the season.

benefactor

12-02-2016, 07:43 AM

Your self-loathing is always so adorable.

SPURt

12-02-2016, 07:53 AM

Ye of little faith...

The Spurs are definitely a contender. I, like many on here, loved the "beautiful game" Spurs more than any version we've seen through the years but it's like people forgot what it was like watching prime Duncan Spurs. Low scoring, defensive minded ball with the majority of the offense going through Duncan. The Spurs have won championships with teams that moved the ball less than this team, granted they were riding the best talent of his generation in Duncan.

To declare the Spurs first round fodder at a point in the season where Pop is clearly trying to figure out this new team is misguided. I have no problem with the Spurs looking like butt some nights if it teaches Pop that certain players shouldn't get playoff minutes. I just hope Pop is willing to make tough decisions based on performance.

Ginobili, Lee, Dedmon, and Bertans all are playing better than I expected this season. Pau is exactly what I expected. LMA and Tony are playing in a "worst case scenario" way too many nights. Patty and Danny are looking the best they have since the championship. Simmons is showing flashes but shooting poorly, especially from 3 (19%). KA has been the biggest disappointment so far. My fear with this bunch is I'd rather have LMA/Pau exceeding expectations over Dedmon/Lee as that impact would be more important to the team.

Still a lot of games left for players to prove they deserve playoff minutes and too much season left to count the Spurs out now.

SAGirl

12-02-2016, 01:59 PM

They are pretenders to me, but it doesn't prevent me from enjoying the season.

dabom

12-02-2016, 02:49 PM

They are pretenders to me, but it doesn't prevent me from enjoying the season.

This is why no one fucking takes you serious. :lmao

I bet if fathead was in the rotation you would think otherwise. :lmao

dabom

12-02-2016, 02:50 PM

That's it man. Putting this troll on my ignore list. :lol

dabom

12-02-2016, 02:51 PM

My friends should do the same. :tu

spurraider21

12-02-2016, 02:57 PM

why do spurfans confuse championship contender with being the overwhelming favorite?

dabom

12-02-2016, 02:58 PM

why do spurfans confuse championship contender with being the overwhelming favorite?

Cause they are fucking retarded. :lmap

Chinook

12-02-2016, 03:00 PM

why do spurfans confuse championship contender with being the overwhelming favorite?

Apparently there's no middle ground between people having this "pretenders" hot take and the threads Uriel started last year suggesting why math said the Spurs would win the title.

dabom

12-02-2016, 03:06 PM

Apparently there's no middle ground between people having this "pretenders" hot take and the threads Uriel started last year suggesting why math said the Spurs would win the title.

I guess both those ideas are fucking retarded tbh. :lmao

SAGirl

12-02-2016, 03:11 PM

I'd love for dabom to put me on ignore and don't quote me or respond or react to anything I post TBH. Dude has the hots for me or something and despite knowing that I do not care for him, he keeps quoting me. Just freaking ignore me dabom. I would love that.

... as for the team they have holes:

Gasol wont be able to stay on the floor when it counts. Not a good omen he has gotten benched several times already in a young season (already more than Tim, I think), and has had his share of 0 scoring or low scoring games when his impact is supposed to be offensively... Is this a result of Pop's Kawhiso based offense freezing guys out? I don't know.

Tony/Manu too old and still have important or vital roles in the team. I don't think they have another gear they can get to when it counts.

LMA looking soft. Maybe this dude will get on a rhythm like last year, but he should be the one in the hot seat considering his role in the team and his pathetic performances in a few games. It's been ppl putting the hot takes on roleplayers and Tony, but LMA has gone under the radar as an early season underachiever. 32 minutes against the Mavs and only has 5 points and not much of anything else but some rebounds. That is unacceptable to me. I bet Pau would have been better in that situation, like he was against the Heat earlier in the season when LMA didn't play.

The youngsters are youngsters. Pop could light a fire under them but if they are not going to have roles in the postseason what they do right now in terms of being contenders doesn't matter. Bottom line, Pop will stick to his old guys and that will be that.

spursistan

12-02-2016, 03:25 PM

To be clear, I'm not predicting a 1st round upset. With no key player injured, I'd pick them to beat any of those teams. I'm just saying, I think there's a better chance of them not than them beating the Clippers.

The Clippers have had clearly superior star power to the Spurs since '14, but now they also have continuity and desperation on them. I don't doubt them, so much I trust the Warriors overwhelming star power more. Had they not landed Durant though, I'd have given strong consideration to picking the Clippers to win the championship this season.

I don't see that ceiling. Like spursistan said, they're basically preying for one of Parker or Ginobili to turn back the clock roughly 4 times to have a chance versus the Clippers/Warriors and they've slipped too much to buy it.

The Clippers throttling of the Cavs on the road last night shows in weird way how underrated they are as basketball team-- mostly because of history-- in contrast to Cleveland’s slight overrating, which is due the circumstances of playing in the East and the peak potential of Lebron. (Cavs put on this high of pedestal is based on the LeBron we saw the last 4 games of Finals; otherwise they have many exploitable flaws).

LAC have probably the second best starting 4 in the league after Golden State. Their star power is much more seasoned and explosive than San Antonio, for example. They have somewhat shored up their bench and majorly improved their D the last two years…Mboute—with his physically-- has emerged as reliable wing defender and has frustrated both Kawhi/Lebron into a putrid games this season..

IMO, this is the Clippers last chance to breakthrough before Golden State address their bench, lack size and rim protection, which has been killing them so far..

Arcadian

12-02-2016, 03:28 PM

I like the Clippers' chances this year. Don't write them off based on history. All it takes is one exception to completely alter the trend. This could be their year to break through.

I. Hustle

12-02-2016, 03:30 PM

Of course they are still contenders. /thread

spurs10

12-02-2016, 03:32 PM

Things aren't very clear now, but we should know by the end of the playoffs. I think I have to agree. Before then there is a chance that I might be just blustering nonsensically, pretending to know what is going to happen.

I will however say that I will base all my opinions on the speculation that none of our players are abducted by any alien spacecraft. However, if any of our chief opponents are abducted by alien spacecraft I believe it could quite possibly play a part in raising our odds for being more successful in the playoffs. I'm not quite certain though.

Spurs9

12-02-2016, 04:35 PM

I like the Clippers' chances this year. Don't write them off based on history. All it takes is one exception to completely alter the trend. This could be their year to break through.

They need to get the whining about calls under control. They can get easily exploited because of how much they complain about everything, especially going against a team like GS in the playoffs with Draymond. Talent wise I think they can hang with them but they aren't mentally tough tbh

DPG21920

12-02-2016, 05:20 PM

My friends should do the same. :tu

You did not need to pluralize that tbh :lol

dabom

12-02-2016, 05:24 PM

You did not need to pluralize that tbh :lol

FYI, I got more than you in here. :tu :lol

DPG21920

12-02-2016, 05:27 PM

FYI, I got more than you in here. :tu :lol

I like it :tu

We have a bet then. Create a poll asking who people like better me or you. Loser is gone from ST forever. Deal?

dabom

12-02-2016, 05:34 PM

I like it :tu

We have a bet then. Create a poll asking who people like better me or you. Loser is gone from ST forever. Deal?

You can like someone without being their friends dumbass. :lmao

And I got more haters. :lmao

But I do got more friends. :lmao

DPG21920

12-02-2016, 05:37 PM

You can like someone without being their friends dumbass. :lmao

And I got more haters. :lmao

But I do got more friends. :lmao

:lol What? So you are saying more people hate you and like me but you have more friends?

You just got punked in front of everyone. Started talking big thinking I would let it slide but once you got called the excuses came flying out.

dabom

12-02-2016, 05:59 PM

:lol What? So you are saying more people hate you and like me but you have more friends?

You just got punked in front of everyone. Started talking big thinking I would let it slide but once you got called the excuses came flying out.

It's true though faggot. :lmao

TD 21

12-02-2016, 06:22 PM

The Clippers throttling of the Cavs on the road last night shows in weird way how underrated they are as basketball team-- mostly because of history-- in contrast to Cleveland’s slight overrating, which is due the circumstances of playing in the East and the peak potential of Lebron. (Cavs put on this high of pedestal is based on the LeBron we saw the last 4 games of Finals; otherwise they have many exploitable flaws).

LAC have probably the second best starting 4 in the league after Golden State. Their star power is much more seasoned and explosive than San Antonio, for example. They have somewhat shored up their bench and majorly improved their D the last two years…Mboute—with his physically-- has emerged as reliable wing defender and has frustrated both Kawhi/Lebron into a putrid games this season..

IMO, this is the Clippers last chance to breakthrough before Golden State address their bench, lack size and rim protection, which has been killing them so far..

:tu

Because of the last part, I've went back and forth on it, but I'll also give them a puncher's chance. They might be able to summon their inner '11 Mavericks or '14 Spurs, even though their top players aren't nearly as old.

why do spurfans confuse championship contender with being the overwhelming favorite?

I didn't confuse shit; I don't think they're contenders period. Not even a puncher's chance.

I'd love for dabom to put me on ignore and don't quote me or respond or react to anything I post TBH. Dude has the hots for me or something and despite knowing that I do not care for him, he keeps quoting me. Just freaking ignore me dabom. I would love that.

:lmao

They are pretenders to me, but it doesn't prevent me from enjoying the season.

I thought I was just being a pessimist?

spurraider21

12-02-2016, 06:50 PM

I didn't confuse shit; I don't think they're contenders period. Not even a puncher's chance.yeah well you've always been a whiny faggot saying the spurs have :cry no chance :cry... heres you making the same generic complaints during the 13-14 season where the spurs rang

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226844

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227371

TD 21

12-02-2016, 07:09 PM

yeah well you've always been a whiny faggot saying the spurs have :cry no chance :cry... heres you making the same generic complaints during the 13-14 season where the spurs rang

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226844

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227371

If Ibaka doesn't miss the first 2 games of the WCF and wasn't hobbled thereafter, who knows how that turns out? But let's pretend that never happened.

spursistan

01-22-2017, 12:33 AM

4-0 on the road vs GSW/CLE/Houston

IF we can find a way out of West, i really think Spurs/Cavs could be a tossup series especially with HCA likely going to SA..But that's easier said than done..

Long season ahead still..Warriors are a cut above but Clippers with dodgy health and Rockets--cooling off lately-- wouldn't be unbeatable if Pop coaches it right..

TD 21

01-29-2017, 09:33 PM

Anyone still buying them?

dabom

01-29-2017, 09:34 PM

Anyone still buying them?

Pop can still bench Cancer. Or he can make another "injury".

Vokun

01-29-2017, 09:35 PM

Anyone still buying them?

Not if Pop continues his horrific coaching that's been going on for 2 1/2 years now.

mexicanjunior

01-29-2017, 09:36 PM

Is this poll a fucking joke? They can't even beat the Pelicans and Mavs...fuck this team.

ElNono

01-29-2017, 09:36 PM

Anyone still buying them?

I mean, looking at the field? yes. This is a season where we beat all the 'better' teams, except the Clippers. It's just hard to read this team at times. Like lacking the discipline and motivation to get up for every game.

Also Pau got some slack, but I think he's actually a guy that works well with Tony. I don't know he would've made a big difference in these loses, but you never know.

spursgu

01-29-2017, 09:38 PM

Yes they are, Tampon21

Robz4000

01-29-2017, 09:38 PM

Only in the sense there's only 2-3 teams with more talent, but regardless this team will be out in the first or second round.

TD 21

01-29-2017, 09:47 PM

Starting Murray isn't saving this team and neither is Pop coaching worth a damn. They're flat out too flawed.

I mean, looking at the field? yes. This is a season where we beat all the 'better' teams, except the Clippers. It's just hard to read this team at times. Like lacking the discipline and motivation to get up for every game.

Also Pau got some slack, but I think he's actually a guy that works well with Tony. I don't know he would've made a big difference in these loses, but you never know.

Again, the field is irrelevant if they can't beat a team that's guaranteed to be in their path.

Beyond them, after an early season reprieve, they're back to their usual poor late game execution/luck and inability to steal games. Although, they were fortunate against the Cavaliers, who generated much better shots down the stretch, only to miss most of them.

spurtech09

01-29-2017, 09:49 PM

Who are we kidding the Spurs are going to get screwed in the play-offs anyways.....(REFS)

ElNono

01-29-2017, 09:50 PM

Starting Murray isn't saving this team and neither is Pop coaching worth a damn. They're flat out too flawed.

Again, the field is irrelevant if they can't beat a team that's guaranteed to be in their path.

Beyond them, after an early season reprieve, they're back to their usual poor late game execution/luck and inability to steal games. Although, they were fortunate against the Cavaliers, who generated much better shots down the stretch, only to miss most of them.

I'm pretty sure we'll win a series against the Mavs or Pelicans if that were to happen. One regular season game won't change my mind about that.

Against other good teams like the Clippers, etc, if they're 100%, then sure, it's more debatable. I don't, however, think the Spurs would just lay down. Maybe the Dubs if firing on all cylinders would route us.

Hoops Czar

01-29-2017, 09:50 PM

Spurs are the 2014 Mavs.

spurtech09

01-29-2017, 09:56 PM

Looks like will be seeing another rigged NBA Finals Cavs vs Warriors.....Book it..............

TD 21

01-29-2017, 10:09 PM

I'm pretty sure we'll win a series against the Mavs or Pelicans if that were to happen. One regular season game won't change my mind about that.

Against other good teams like the Clippers, etc, if they're 100%, then sure, it's more debatable. I don't, however, think the Spurs would just lay down. Maybe the Dubs if firing on all cylinders would route us.

It's not about the irrelevant Pelicans or Mavericks, it's about 2+ years of the same issues.

Route or not, the point is, they can't beat a healthy Warriors in a series and since they're guaranteed to be in the WCF, that means the Spurs aren't contenders.

BillMc

01-29-2017, 10:10 PM

Easily still contenders. Probably second best team in the league and have beaten the best team in the league convincingly in their one meeting.

apalisoc_9

01-29-2017, 10:15 PM

Meh. They're legitimate contender under a few lucky circumstances.

There's highly favourites ( warriors) and there's teams that need abounces to go their way to have a chance even if it was little ( cavs, spurs, healthy LA.)

Any team that can put themselves in a situation of lucky bounces is a legit contender. Obviously some shitty teams like the Raports, Rockets etc would probably need double the luck of those three teams so in their case its almst impossible.

TampaDude

01-29-2017, 10:42 PM

Sure...we're in the hunt...we always have been over the past 20 years.

That said, it's probably gonna be yet another Cavs-Dubs Finals.

BillMc

01-29-2017, 10:49 PM

ElNono

01-29-2017, 10:54 PM

It's not about the irrelevant Pelicans or Mavericks, it's about 2+ years of the same issues.

Route or not, the point is, they can't beat a healthy Warriors in a series and since they're guaranteed to be in the WCF, that means the Spurs aren't contenders.

Maybe they can't, but you can't guarantee a healthy Warriors will show up in a series. And a whole lot of teams in this league right now can't beat even an unhealthy Dubs team, but, the Spurs probably do have good odds in that case.

In sum, would the Spurs need some breaks? Sure. Are they a top 3-4 team in this league, that have a legit shot at a championship? absolutely.

Ice009

01-29-2017, 10:59 PM

Well, I just watched the game and needless to say, I don't think that I can get any madder.

As I said after the last loss, this team is going nowhere with Parker, Green, Mills as the guard rotation.

Mills = Pathetic defender and if not hitting shots is useless
Parker = Ball hog that looks for his own too much and is a pathetic defender
Green = Too inconsistent of a shooter and is now in one of his famous can't hit shots spell. His one on one defense has also slipped to nothing better than average.

Spurs need to see if they can get in on a trade for Butler.

TheDoctor

01-29-2017, 11:02 PM

Save us, Patron Saint of Lost Causes - Mario "Rio" Chalmers

https://m.popkey.co/b91b94/mpb5k.gif

SAGirl

01-30-2017, 12:21 AM

spurs10

01-30-2017, 12:46 AM

Losing to non-playoff teams is not encouraging, but I'm not convinced it means a whole lot to change the big picture. Few expect anyone in the west to get past the Dubs and if anyone could it would be us. Playing like this no, but we have a few areas where we can give them trouble.

I think how Danny is able to defend on the perimeter is very huge. Our guard play in general is the biggest issue, but if Danny can play great defense we have a tag-team of energy players that might help. After horrible losses like tonight it's hard to imagine we could do much, but we might be the second best team in the league when the playoffs start. Anything can happen- as many have said- look at last year's Finals. Now the problem is that the Dubs are us in 2014- they want redemption and- Kevring would sell his mom to the Albanian mob to get a ring.

Mikeanaro

01-30-2017, 01:08 AM

As long as they have Porker...

TD 21

01-31-2017, 05:26 PM

Maybe they can't, but you can't guarantee a healthy Warriors will show up in a series. And a whole lot of teams in this league right now can't beat even an unhealthy Dubs team, but, the Spurs probably do have good odds in that case.

In sum, would the Spurs need some breaks? Sure. Are they a top 3-4 team in this league, that have a legit shot at a championship? absolutely.

My definition of a legit contender, is a team that can conceivably beat anyone at full strength. Sure, every team that wins a championship needs a few things out of their control to break their way, but if you need an injury to a star(s) on another team, you're not legit and I actually think they'd probably need 2 of the Warriors big 4 to be out, to beat them.

This is a unique season and unfortunately it's probably going to last for a few, in that there's more than likely only 1 contender. The thing the Cavaliers have going for them, that the Spurs and Clippers don't, is that as thin as they are right now, they're all but assured of at least being in a series with them and until James proves he can no longer summon the ability to reach a level no other current player can, they have the best player in the world.

ElNono

01-31-2017, 11:16 PM

My definition of a legit contender, is a team that can conceivably beat anyone at full strength. Sure, every team that wins a championship needs a few things out of their control to break their way, but if you need an injury to a star(s) on another team, you're not legit and I actually think they'd probably need 2 of the Warriors big 4 to be out, to beat them.

This is a unique season and unfortunately it's probably going to last for a few, in that there's more than likely only 1 contender. The thing the Cavaliers have going for them, that the Spurs and Clippers don't, is that as thin as they are right now, they're all but assured of at least being in a series with them and until James proves he can no longer summon the ability to reach a level no other current player can, they have the best player in the world.

Yeah, by your definition the Dubs are the sole contenders... and they would've been last season too. But that's why games are played. Stuff like injuries, slumps, bat matchups, etc happens. I remember when the Mavs won, they were totally legit post-facto, but if you look at their regular season, they weren't a sure thing. They just caught fire at the right time, built some momentum and ran the table.

You can tell flaws on a team here or there, but can also hide them against the right matchup. Which teams you end up playing are also breaks. I see people worrying about playing the Clippers again, but you really can't worry until you get there. Maybe you catch a break and you don't have to play them, you worried for nothing. Just let things play out and see what happens, it's not like we as fans can do anything about it anyways.

SpursBig3s

01-31-2017, 11:44 PM

It's not about the irrelevant Pelicans or Mavericks, it's about 2+ years of the same issues.

Route or not, the point is, they can't beat a healthy Warriors in a series and since they're guaranteed to be in the WCF, that means the Spurs aren't contenders.

This is stupid. The warriors picked up the best offensive player in the entire league on top of what they already have. What's anyone supposed to? Like cmon man...

are we the favorites? No. The warriors are. That doesn't mean we're not a contender. We're gonna get to the WCF with a shot at the Dubs to get to the finals. What more do you want?

DAF86

01-31-2017, 11:47 PM

Only the Warriors are better than them, so I guess they are? I don't know.

ElNono

02-01-2017, 12:00 AM

It would certainly be disappointing if we're healthy and get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round again, that's for sure.

GSH

02-01-2017, 12:09 AM

The Spurs played good D tonight. They worked their asses off and did a good job staying in front of Westrbook (held him to 42% on the night). They hustled for loose balls. They got 25 blocks and steals combined. :wow

Until someone proves differently, defense still rules the post-season. They aren't going to out-gun the Dubs. But if they can play this kind of D, and keep their shooters from getting into any kind of rhythm? Maybe. I'd like to see more of this, please.

TD 21

02-01-2017, 05:57 PM

Yeah, by your definition the Dubs are the sole contenders... and they would've been last season too. But that's why games are played. Stuff like injuries, slumps, bat matchups, etc happens. I remember when the Mavs won, they were totally legit post-facto, but if you look at their regular season, they weren't a sure thing. They just caught fire at the right time, built some momentum and ran the table.

You can tell flaws on a team here or there, but can also hide them against the right matchup. Which teams you end up playing are also breaks. I see people worrying about playing the Clippers again, but you really can't worry until you get there. Maybe you catch a break and you don't have to play them, you worried for nothing. Just let things play out and see what happens, it's not like we as fans can do anything about it anyways.

I didn't have them as sole contenders last season. This is different, unlike anything in at least modern history. More than likely, the only way they can lose, is if 2 of Curry, Durant and Green are injured.

This is stupid. The warriors picked up the best offensive player in the entire league on top of what they already have. What's anyone supposed to? Like cmon man...

are we the favorites? No. The warriors are. That doesn't mean we're not a contender. We're gonna get to the WCF with a shot at the Dubs to get to the finals. What more do you want?

No reading comprehension. I wasn't blaming the Spurs for their predicament; on the contrary, I've repeatedly said they've done what they could have to keep pace, but it'll be futile.