The lost streets of Chicago

[DarrinS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbKp8OV6F64

[rmt]

So sad. Why don't they (as that lady says) get out? Instead of spending money on guns or drugs, use that to get out. If I were one of those young men (and survived to age 18), I'd go join the Army, Navy, etc - anything to get out. That neighborhood doesn't look safe enough to walk to school. I'll tie it back to the homeschool post - if a voucher could be used to buy a computer, it's probably safer to homeschool, stay home and get a hs degree online. I wonder if they'd break in for the computer.

[Avante]

Then blacks wonder why the police treat them like they do, sheesh~~~~~~~~~

Dump all that shit music, is a start. Black men actually staying home and raising their kids would help.

What ever happened to...curfew?

Dump shit like this.

[mingus]

So sad. Why don't they (as that lady says) get out? Instead of spending money on guns or drugs, use that to get out. If I were one of those young men (and survived to age 18), I'd go join the Army, Navy, etc - anything to get out. That neighborhood doesn't look safe enough to walk to school. I'll tie it back to the homeschool post - if a voucher could be used to buy a computer, it's probably safer to homeschool, stay home and get a hs degree online. I wonder if they'd break in for the computer.

Truth is, they can get out.

You have to look at it from a psychological POV to understand it. I believe your whole paragraph here shows quite a bit about you.

You must have had it easy growing up. I mean that with all due respect. Like, relatively speaking you had to have had it easy. And when it did get hard, you had people that had your back.

I'm not going to get too into it, because frankly it'd take an essay. But in summary I will say this: The psychological depths of these kids/young adults is such that this is all they think they can be. Think of what they're doing as passive suicide instead of murder. They feel absolutely worthless. Look passed to bravado/thuggery and that's what's at their core.

I grew up around these types of people. In some type of way they've been robbed of their childhood innocence. Once that gets taken away your done for, unless you're miraculously fortunate in some type of way. Once your childhood is lost, you wilt & die. In this case by savagery. For some people it's to drugs. To others it's to suicide.

What's the solution?

Nothing. It's like the guy at the beginning said, a lot of guys have to die for it to get better. Basically, they're irredeemable, generally speaking.

[pgardn]

This is not a peculiar black thing.

This same basic recipe works worldwide. Take human beings, sorround them with poverty and violence with no hope, and the outcome is hell. Some turn to drugs, some turn to a violent religion, but the outcome is very much the same. The cultural aspects of the region add a bit of regional flavor, but the outcome is basically the same.

[Th'Pusher]

Across the board tax cuts and charter schools should fix the issue.

[DarrinS]

I grew up poor and raised by a single mother on the west side of SA, but I didn't have delusions of being a rapper or a pro athlete. Some of my childhood friends ended up junkies or in prison, but that's what happens when you make poor choices.

[Th'Pusher]

I grew up poor and raised by a single mother on the west side of SA, but I didn't have delusions of being a rapper or a pro athlete. Some of my childhood friends ended up junkies or in prison, but that's what happens when you make poor choices.

Your right. I forgot to throw in a dash of personal responsibility with the charter schools and tax cuts.

That's a recipe for success!

[DarrinS]

Your right. I forgot to throw in a dash of personal responsibility with the charter schools and tax cuts.

That's a recipe for success!


A person also has the choice to consider themselves victims of a rigged system and give up. Works wonders, tbh.

[rmt]

Well, if the fathers are absent, (short of getting out) it's up to the mothers to protect/shield the kids from bad influences - join the nearest church (even if you aren't a believer) - get the kids involved in church activities, stress the value of education and have high expectations (hard work and best effort). Ben Carson grew up in Detroit and his mother couldn't read but she had high expectations and he got out - I know that was an unusual example but better than just lying back and having this hopeless acceptance.

Maybe other famous black people (President, basketball players, rappers, etc) on a rotation could go into these communities and give motivational speeches on education and how it's possible to get out/make a success of life, etc. And yes, if vouchers were available for computers, a HS degree can be totally gotten online - not going to drug and gang infested schools. Any extra money these inner cities get should go toward computers for young kids - the internet would open up a whole new world to them and better to be on the computer (even playing games but better reading) than on the streets.

Part of the problem of receiving help is the safety issue. When I first joined the adult literacy program at the library, they sent me into this really rough neighborhood. I told them I would continue in the program but only from my local branch (the person has to drive to me). There are people willing to help but not at the expense of their own safety and Th'Pusher - I already know your opinion on my fear level.

[pgardn]

I grew up poor and raised by a single mother on the west side of SA, but I didn't have delusions of being a rapper or a pro athlete. Some of my childhood friends ended up junkies or in prison, but that's what happens when you make poor choices.

You grow up black in Chicago and it's not even close to the same. And some of those kids in Chicago WILL make it out. But the probability is very low compared to a middle class white boy. It's not an all or nothing, it just makes it relatively tougher to live a decent life.

If conservatives can't see this they are blind.

[pgardn]

Well, if the fathers are absent, (short of getting out) it's up to the mothers to protect/shield the kids from bad influences - join the nearest church (even if you aren't a believer) - get the kids involved in church activities, stress the value of education and have high expectations (hard work and best effort). Ben Carson grew up in Detroit and his mother couldn't read but she had high expectations and he got out - I know that was an unusual example but better than just lying back and having this hopeless acceptance.

Maybe other famous black people (President, basketball players, rappers, etc) on a rotation could go into these communities and give motivational speeches on education and how it's possible to get out/make a success of life, etc. And yes, if vouchers were available for computers, a HS degree can be totally gotten online - not going to drug and gang infested schools. Any extra money these inner cities get should go toward computers for young kids - the internet would open up a whole new world to them and better to be on the computer (even playing games but better reading) than on the streets.

Part of the problem of receiving help is the safety issue. When I first joined the adult literacy program at the library, they sent me into this really rough neighborhood. I told them I would continue in the program but only from my local branch (the person has to drive to me). There are people willing to help but not at the expense of their own safety and Th'Pusher - I already know your opinion on my fear level.

If charter schools all worked like they theoretically should...
But we have already seen the incredible waste of government money they have already produced. I have already visited a few in Austin that absolutely need to be shut down. And thank God some have. They take good kids and families and waste a year or two of their education. I have also visited a private Christian school in a wealthy area of Boerne that is absolutely excellent. But 10,000 a year. And it's capped. But it is a very unique situation in which a well off area has taken ownership of the school. The parents trust the teachers and fully support them.

This is NOT easy.

[rmt]

If charter schools all worked like they theoretically should...
But we have already seen the incredible waste of government money they have already produced. I have already visited a few in Austin that absolutely need to be shut down. And thank God some have. They take good kids and families and waste a year or two of their education. I have also visited a private Christian school in a wealthy area of Boerne that is absolutely excellent. But 10,000 a year. And it's capped. But it is a very unique situation in which a well off area has taken ownership of the school. The parents trust the teachers and fully support them.

This is NOT easy.

I'm not talking about charter schools. iirc, most states (definitely Illinois) have an online, virtual school where one can earn a HS diploma totally online (meaning never leaving your house). It's flexible time-wise (you can work at your pace/hours - not necessarily school hours). This would keep them out of bad schools and maybe off the streets.

[pgardn]

I'm not talking about charter schools. iirc, most states (definitely Illinois) have an online, virtual school where one can earn a HS diploma totally online (meaning never leaving your house). It's flexible time-wise (you can work at your pace/hours - not necessarily school hours). This would keep them out of bad schools and maybe off the streets.

Ideally you would like socialization in front of an actual body. But I see your point.

[rmt]

Ideally you would like socialization in front of an actual body. But I see your point.

You can get socialization from church activities. I know most of you don't believe/agree with stuff taught at church, but on a whole, there are many caring people there and lots of useful activities/skills learned at church - lots of singing, playing instruments (the head of the praise team is teaching our teens to play guitar), arts & crafts, taking care of the toddlers/children, outreach into the community, etc. And I think providing teens/kids with a safe, nurturing environment is more important than whatever philosophical/religious (or lack of) disagreements one might have with the church - it's much better than the streets.

And to add, if I had a daughter living in those neighborhoods, I would put her on birth control - do not get pregnant.

[mingus]

I grew up poor and raised by a single mother on the west side of SA, but I didn't have delusions of being a rapper or a pro athlete. Some of my childhood friends ended up junkies or in prison, but that's what happens when you make poor choices.

It's more than just poor choices.

You don't make a choice to become a savage, you are shaped into one by outside forces.

[mingus]

It comes down to being properly socialized. The problem will never get fixed if we have people believing the solution is as simple as making right choices.

Savages are made not born. It's more than growing up in a single-parent household & it's more than poverty. Those are super important factors, but they really just scratch the surface.

[mingus]

You grow up black in Chicago and it's not even close to the same. And some of those kids in Chicago WILL make it out. But the probability is very low compared to a middle class white boy. It's not an all or nothing, it just makes it relatively tougher to live a decent life.

If conservatives can't see this they are blind.

+1

Truth is though a lot liberals don't know what the fuck they're talking about either on this.

[CosmicCowboy]

So how do you fix it?

[pgardn]

+1

Truth is though a lot liberals don't know what the fuck they're talking about either on this.

No doubt.

[pgardn]

So how do you fix it?

Well we know government mandated integration through busing did not help the education part. You can't just build a fancy new school and expect it to change a neighborhood and poverty. I think we know a bit about what does not work.

Imo when a culture and it's differences are accepted even embraced and considered equals (even to the point where there are no raised eyebrows due to mixed marriages) it helps a great deal. You can see this on a small scale in San Antonio in some neighborhoods where Hispanics and Caucasian are intertwined.

[Th'Pusher]

So how do you fix it?

Unleash the free market!

[Th'Pusher]

Too much government regulation!

[mingus]

Imo when a culture and it's differences are accepted even embraced and considered equals (even to the point where there are no raised eyebrows due to mixed marriages) it helps a great deal. You can see this on a small scale in San Antonio in some neighborhoods where Hispanics and Caucasian are intertwined.

For sure, the thing is Hispanic-Americans in a lot of places--hell, most places--don't suffer from the same sort of generational deficits that Aftican-Americans have. Two reasons why Hispanic-Americans will almost certainly--regardless of what White (or any other race, or culture or nationality), xenophobic, racists think of them is that they can adapt or isolate/distance themselves from the dominant "American" culture & regardless of whichever one they choose still be successful here. Culturally speaking, not having to grow & evolve into what it is today under an oppressive force means a it can do either of those things and still be fine. African-American culture has grown into what it is today from under and within a highly, historically oppressive dominant culture. That history has given & taken from it a certain set of tools & values that are very unique to it. Up until 60 years ago it "grew" in virtual isolation and under devastating oppression.

I don't have the slightest clue how you fix that. It would take something truly revolutionary for it to change. Hopefully it can.

What people need to recognize though is that for the African-Americans that do find a way to make something for themselves now, they probably deserve our respect & admiration more than any other group of Americans.

But what happens instead?

White Racists let em know they are where they are only because of quotas & affirmative action, & Black people call them Uncle Toms.

What a fucking joke of a world we live in.

[rmt]

To me, the difference between the hispanics and blacks in making it/being successful is the support from family. Here in Miami, the Cuban Americans are incredibly close family-wise. When we played soccer, every grandparent, uncle, aunt, cousin comes out to watch regular season games, much less playoffs. In the Asians too, family is all-important and expectations are high - even if income is low in the first generation, they stress education and by the 2nd generation, they're pretty much on their way. There still is the feeling that sons are better than daughters (eg. to my father, my children are not on "equal" standing as my brother's son because they cannot carry on his family name). In the black community, the fathers are absent, too much rests on the mothers financially/emotionally/child-rearing-wise, no model for the young males and they get involved with drugs/gangs and the girls get pregnant young.

[mingus]

To me, the difference between the hispanics and blacks in making it/being successful is the support from family. Here in Miami, the Cuban Americans are incredibly close family-wise. When we played soccer, every grandparent, uncle, aunt, cousin comes out to watch regular season games, much less playoffs. In the Asians too, family is all-important and expectations are high - even if income is low in the first generation, they stress education and by the 2nd generation, they're pretty much on their way. There still is the feeling that sons are better than daughters (eg. to my father, my children are not on "equal" standing as my brother's son because they cannot carry on his family name). In the black community, the fathers are absent, too much rests on the mothers financially/emotionally/child-rearing-wise, no model for the young males and they get involved with drugs/gangs and the girls get pregnant young.

And there are plenty of Black families who do just that. But there are too many especially in the densley populated areas where this disease takes root that just succumb to the obstacles. And you are right to say that the difference is family. But it's also community. These kids go to school & the kids that are there are in the same predicaments as them. When the problems are the very people & places that are the building blocks of living a good, happy life, then it's a cycle of violence. It's not just about "having expectations"--dig deeper than that. Children don't just follow expectations. They follow expectations depending on who's giving it to them. Is his thug dad &/or crack-head, mentally broken mom telling him this? Yeah, he's REALLY going to listen. Or, hell, maybe they got a good mom &/or dad. But if the kids going to school with a bunch of other kids who have a fucked up home, then there's a problem there potentially there too that's just as dangerous long-term. And why don't they change, you ask?

Well, if you gotta ask that than just thank God every day you don't know the answer to that question. Fact: it doesn't matter the animal, even humans. You give it a certain social environment at the beginning of its life, and there's a real, real small chance what comes out isn't reflective of that.

[rmt]

So what - we just give up? I don't accept that. Unlike Hillary, I don't think that people are irredeemable (btw, since she says she's a Christian, she should believe that salvation is available to all - there are no irredeemables).

This is why I suggest the online hs diploma - just don't go to the bad schools, don't mix with those people. Go virtual (evenings/night) and maybe try to get a job (during school hours), save up and get outta there asap. If the parents don't know enough to advise kids or kids won't listen to parents, then the state/county should go into these neighborhoods and advertise virtual schools - it's much cheaper than traditional school - throw in a computer and internet connection - get them out of bad schools and off the streets.

[boutons_deux]

the rightwingnut racist schadenfreude over a human disaster like Chicago gang knitters is blatant

[rmt]

the rightwingnut racist schadenfreude over a human disaster like Chicago gang knitters is blatant

I'm not finding/understanding "gang knitters"

[boutons_deux]

I'm not finding/understanding "gang knitters"

Well, you're stupid, so ...

[rmt]

Well, you're stupid, so ...

C'mon, boutons, explain pls - I'm not scrolling through more Wool and the Gang ...

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm not finding/understanding "gang knitters"

"Knitters" is Boukaki's racist characterization of people of color.

[boutons_deux]

"Knitters" is Boukaki's racist characterization of people of color.

knitters is how you rightwingnuts really think of blacks, so I speak to you on your scummy, racist level.

[rmt]

Thanks.

[rmt]

knitters is how you rightwingnuts really think of blacks, so I speak to you on your scummy, racist level.

Well, I must think very highly of them since that went way over my head :lol

[boutons_deux]

Well, I must think very highly of them since that went way over my head :lol

a lot shit goes over your head, Trash suppoter.

[CosmicCowboy]

knitters is how you rightwingnuts really think of blacks, so I speak to you on your scummy, racist level.

Boo is like the frat boy that calls his buddies my N**** because he just wants an excuse to say it.

[mingus]

So what - we just give up? I don't accept that. Unlike Hillary, I don't think that people are irredeemable (btw, since she says she's a Christian, she should believe that salvation is available to all - there are no irredeemables).

This is why I suggest the online hs diploma - just don't go to the bad schools, don't mix with those people. Go virtual (evenings/night) and maybe try to get a job (during school hours), save up and get outta there asap. If the parents don't know enough to advise kids or kids won't listen to parents, then the state/county should go into these neighborhoods and advertise virtual schools - it's much cheaper than traditional school - throw in a computer and internet connection - get them out of bad schools and off the streets.

The problem is you think "redeemability" is a lot easier than it is in all actuality. And/or that by the time it does happen that person, in his/her savage, evil ignorance, hasn't already blazed a path of Evil behind him. Just because you redeem yourself it doesn't mean that all of a sudden the people you've affected along the way are made righteous. The sins & their affects still wreck havoc through those they've traumatized along the way. And if you read the Bible--like actually read it, from the point of view of persecution & victimization (the audience for which it was originally intended)--you'd have realized that by now.

The sad fact is this--evil exists & persists to remind us we have a responsibility to do everything we can--as a family, community, country, world--to not allow it to take root in neglect & ignorance (forms of Evil themselves) because that will lead to huge problems.

So, yeah, right now the sad fact is though everyone is redeemable, it usually happens later on in life, if it happens at all. Work on preventing the babies born today from growing up the way they will--& not by aborting them, but through some other means. Adoption them into good homes, volunteerism--anything that puts them in a nurturing home/environment. Every solution would require it be done on a huge, almost never before seen scale. And only when that happens will this country truly be the shining light on a hill--for everyone.