"Police shoot unarmed man" is the media headline

[Fabbs]

When actually this is what police had 0.5 seconds to react to:
http://media.10news.com/photo/2016/09/27/ElCajon_OIS_1475039904875_47040004_ver1.0_640_480. jpg

[Fabbs]

Sick of the media stirring up anti police bullshit with their twisted reporting.
Leading to this shit:
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_960w/2010-2019/Wires/Images/2016-09-27/AP/California_Police_Shooting-0096d.jpg&w=480
El Cajon, San Diego

[Chinook]

Horrible without citation.

[Fabbs]

Crowds gather after police kill unarmed black man in California
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-police-elcajon-idUSKCN11Y0SV

CNN originally had "Police kill unarmed man"
Conveniently leaving out that phat phuck had been asked a dozen times to stop and then reached into his pocket and came out looking like the photo in OP.

They have since changed their tune.

Police killing of unarmed black man in San Diego sparks protest The Guardian.

[Fabbs]

Horrible without citation.
Is that enough for ya Sugarplum?
California police officer fatally shoots reportedly unarmed, mentally challenged man
NY Daily News

[Chinook]

Is that enough for ya Sugarplum?
California police officer fatally shoots reportedly unarmed, mentally challenged man
NY Daily News

Not really. You should come correct in threads where you are trying to slam folks for not having journalistic integrity.

And :lol at acting like a grainy (and STILL :lmao) images to our eyes is what the cops like a few yards away saw. Of course it looks confusing to us with nothing to go on but a picture with poor resolution taken from 50 feet away.

[Chinook]

And this really does underscore FromWayDowntown 's points that officers are supposed to be trained to deal with impaired people and that it was obvious that some cops clearly understand that deadly force isn't necessary in these cases. If that guy had some sort of palsy that made his hand like that, there was literally nothing he could've done that would've led to him surviving that situation.

[FromWayDowntown]

And this really does underscore FromWayDowntown 's points that officers are supposed to be trained to deal with impaired people and that it was obvious that some cops clearly understand that deadly force isn't necessary in these cases. If that guy had some sort of palsy that made his hand like that, there was literally nothing he could've done that would've led to him surviving that situation.

Without getting into the facts of this particular case, since I admittedly don't know them, I go back to things I've said here for a while:

1. Why is the first response by officers lethal force? Why not a taser or pepper spray or something else that isn't lethal, particularly when the "suspect" hasn't been suspected of a crime?

2. If there is to be a shooting, why shouldn't the shots be aimed to injure rather than kill the person? Shooting that guy in the leg likely would have stopped any threat against the officers and allowed him to live to see another day instead of facing summary execution on the street.

3. As Chinook again suggests, this scares me for people who might be inclined to comply with commands, but either can't understand or can't hear what they're being told.

I understand this guy went for his pocket and then came up to position that we see in the still posted by OP. Suppose for one second, though, that he's deaf and he went to his pocket to pull out a notepad so that he could write a note to the officers to say "I'm deaf and only communicate in writing or in sign language." But the way that he does it appears threatening to a scared cop because: (1) he has to go to his pocket; and (2) he has to bring something up towards his face to write the note. Instead of trying to figure out the situation, the cop opens fire and kills a completely innocent person who was simply trying to communicate a problem. I understand that wasn't necessarily what happened here, but it has happened before and in the current climate, it seems very likely to happen to some innocent person who wants very much to comply.

It's precisely why #1 and #2 are such relevant questions, to me at least.

[DeadlyDynasty]

From the pic posted in the OP that guy is definitely in notepad stance

[FromWayDowntown]

From the pic posted in the OP that guy is definitely in notepad stance

I didn't say he was. I also don't see anything in the pic that suggested that the cops' only recourse was shooting to kill.

[SpursforSix]

Without getting into the facts of this particular case, since I admittedly don't know them, I go back to things I've said here for a while:

1. Why is the first response by officers lethal force? Why not a taser or pepper spray or something else that isn't lethal, particularly when the "suspect" hasn't been suspected of a crime?

I agree with this. But they need to develop better non lethal force alternatives. Tasers and pepper spray are far from 100% effective.


2. If there is to be a shooting, why shouldn't the shots be aimed to injure rather than kill the person? Shooting that guy in the leg likely would have stopped any threat against the officers and allowed him to live to see another day instead of facing summary execution on the street.

Agree. It's called Tactical Threat Neutralization. Would have been ideal in this case. They could have easily shot the guys hands.

[UZER]

I didn't say he was. I also don't see anything in the pic that suggested that the cops' only recourse was shooting to kill.

Maybe they could've fired a warning shot that just grazed his ear to scare him.

You watch too many movies.

[Avante]

Last time I was pulled over by a cop, it was right in my drive way. As I started to get out he says..."stay in your truck". Which I did. (I was speeding, got a warning) Now if I would have hassled with the guy no telling what might have happened and me being a big guy he would have been afraid if I'd came towards him.

Cops are simply fed up with blacks not respecting their commands, and all the trouble they cause them. You wanna get fired at work, just make your boss have to work harder because of you.

Here in central Cali it's the Mexicans and cops are...."what is wrong with those people, my God they are dumb"....I know a few cops, actually related to a couple by marriage.

[IceColdBrewski]

What else is new. Media loves pushing narratives that will goad the Dindu Nuffin's into rioting and sniping at cops so they'll have even juicer stories to drive up ratings for a few days. Funny how so many of the blm types still show up chanting "hands up, don't shoot!" Apparently they're still unaware how that narrative in Ferguson quickly turned out to be complete bullshit when witnesses started talking to a grand jury. I guess facing possible perjury charges has a way of bringing out the truth. :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

Noncompliance (which for whites is barely a meaningful misdemeanor, in Texas at least) is a capital offense now for black guys, no matter the circumstances, I guess.

[FromWayDowntown]

Maybe they could've fired a warning shot that just grazed his ear to scare him.

You watch too many movies.

There's no alternative -- shoot to kill or nothing, I guess.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I didn't say he was. I also don't see anything in the pic that suggested that the cops' only recourse was shooting to kill.
Lighten, up Francis...you do have to admit that of all the hypothetical scenarios one could conjure up, that was the most asinine given the photographic evidence

[DeadlyDynasty]

Noncompliance (which for whites is barely a meaningful misdemeanor, in Texas at least) is a capital offense now for black guys, no matter the circumstances, I guess.
here we go...:rolleyes

[IceColdBrewski]

I didn't say he was. I also don't see anything in the pic that suggested that the cops' only recourse was shooting to kill.

Sorry, but it's not like in the movies where the quick-draw lawman is able quickly take a little off the shoulder to get the bad guy to stop what he's doing. In real life, cops are still just scared people who are afraid they're about to get shot and killed. Nobody's taking the time to stop and aim at that point.

[FromWayDowntown]

here we go...:rolleyes

Sorry, that seemed to be Avante's point.

[FromWayDowntown]

Lighten, up Francis...you do have to admit that of all the hypothetical scenarios one could conjure up, that was the most asinine given the photographic evidence

I'm not sure why my scenario was asinine; it just didn't describe that particular picture, but its a pretty long way from implausible at this point, given that noncompliance and reaching for a pocket seems to be enough to justify a shooting.

[Avante]

In his book SATCHMO, Louis Armstrong talks about being raised in the Storyville region of New Orleans, that is the black ghetto. He talks about how as a kid he'd be laying in bed at nights hearing screams and gun shots, and fights, and crying and people begging. He talked about how the cops just stayed out of there, they just didn't care about black on black killings, stabbings, and beatings. They had this....let them jiggaboos kill themselves off...stance.

Black men need to raise their kids, those one parent at home kids need to cool peddling drugs and roaming the streets causing trouble, until that happens they need to stop complaining about how they are being treated. Also would help if they cooled rapping shit like....FUCK THE POLICE.

Now look at those African nations and all the troubles they have.

[FromWayDowntown]

Sorry, but it's not like in the movies where the quick-draw lawman is able quickly take a little off the shoulder to get the bad guy to stop what he's doing. In real life, cops are still just scared people who are afraid they're about to get shot and killed. Nobody's taking the time to stop and aim at that point.

So the deaths of innocents is just a cost of doing business when it comes to modern policing?

[Henry Swanson]

Sorry, but it's not like in the movies where the quick-draw lawman is able quickly take a little off the shoulder to get the bad guy to stop what he's doing. In real life, cops are still just scared people who are afraid they're about to get shot and killed. Nobody's taking the time to stop and aim at that point.

This is exactly what is always missed. These geniuses expect cops to shoot cigarettes out of people's mouths. Like the officer is going to be able to shoot potential weapons out of the person's hand

[IceColdBrewski]

So the deaths of innocents is just a cost of doing business when it comes to modern policing?

Yes, that's exactly what I said. :rolleyes

You may not know much about real life policing situations, but you've certainly got the strawman thing figured out. :lol

[DeadlyDynasty]

I'm not sure why my scenario was asinine; it just didn't describe that particular picture, but a pretty long way from implausible.
I'd say it's pretty fuckin' far from plausible, chief. Suppose for one second that an army of deaf-mutes is driving around us...wouldn't they also know what not to do in front of a police officer?

[DeadlyDynasty]

I'm by no means an expert on law enforcement or social justice, but when confronted by an armed police officer it's probably a good idea to obey their commands and not reach for your pockets.

[Chinook]

Lighten, up Francis...you do have to admit that of all the hypothetical scenarios one could conjure up, that was the most asinine given the photographic evidence

That's a still, not a photo. By that I mean that it was part of a sequence that was deliberately isolated for the public to see. For all we know, he pulled out his hand palm up and cradled in his other hand to show that there was something wrong with it (again this is me sort of baselessly assuming he had a type of palsy or something). When the cops kept yelling out him, he lifted both hands so they could get a better look (creating the pose captured in the still), and they shot him.

Who knows what the hell was going on in that guy's head? He was impaired and in a stressful situation. For all we know, he realized that his hand looked like a gun and thought keeping it in his pocket was the best way to stay safe. After all, how can you shoot people through your pocket?

These are reasons why the video might be more enlightening. Instead, Fabbs used this as an example of misleading news. It's very possible that will be majorly ironic.

[Chinook]

I'm by no means an expert on law enforcement or social justice, but when confronted by an armed police officer it's probably a good idea to obey their commands and not reach for your pockets.

No where does it say that the guy reached for his pocket. The hand could've easily been there already. And how often does that western-movie, shoot-a-bunch-of-guys-after-reaching-into-your-pocket thing really happen? That's a serious question. phyzik posted on the NBA Forum some stats implying that police officers are more at risk in these situations than black people are. But how many situations actually start like this and end with two cops dead and the black guy running off?

[DeadlyDynasty]

That's a still, not a photo. By that I mean that it was part of a sequence that was deliberately isolated for the public to see. For all we know, he pulled out his hand palm up and cradled in his other hand to show that there was something wrong with it (again this is me sort of baselessly assuming he had a type of palsy or something). When the cops kept yelling out him, he lifted both hands so they could get a better look (creating the pose captured in the still), and they shot him.

Who knows what the hell was going on in that guy's head? He was impaired and in a stressful situation. For all we know, he realized that his hand looked like a gun and thought keeping it in his pocket was the best way to stay safe. After all, how can you shoot people through your pocket?

These are reasons why the video might be more enlightening. Instead, Fabbs used this as an example of misleading news. It's very possible that will be majorly ironic.
Listen, I get what you, FWD, and the rest are trying to say...I just think you all are hopelessly naive about law enforcement in this country. The majority of these guys are public school graduates with no college education who are making damn-near Mexican wages--all to put up with scumbags on a daily basis. As Henry Swanson and ICB alluded to, I think you have this romanticized view of how all police officers should be (Mensa intelligence, SEAL team decision-making, delta force accuracy, etc). We probably have a lot of SVU and NCIS fans here, imo.

It's an imperfect system, and like any other group of people there's some scumbags among them. Still, I don't know what you're hoping to get with $35K/yr and a limited education. Perhaps liberals should be less gung-ho about taking care of Starbucks baristas and Mickey D's frycooks, and more interested in improving the wages (and subsequently, the vetting process) of police officers. The higher the pay, the more competitive the selection process, which equals more qualified candidates, right?

All that aside, just don't be a jack-ass when you get pulled over. Do what they say for the 10-15 minutes you have to deal with them, then be on your way.

If this guy's just an unfortunate deaf-mute with cerebral palsy, then I sincerely apologize.

[SpursforSix]

If this guy's just an unfortunate deaf-mute with cerebral palsy, then I sincerely apologize.

He shouldn't be fucking driving.

[Clipper Nation]

Noncompliance (which for whites is barely a meaningful misdemeanor, in Texas at least) is a capital offense now for black guys, no matter the circumstances, I guess.

There's "non-compliance," and then there's pointing your gun at a cop. Or reaching for a cop's gun in an attempt to steal it and shoot them with it, for that matter. The stream of excuses spewed by Democrat politicians, left-wing political agitators, and the media have emboldened criminals to keep turning routine stops into kill-or-be-killed situations for police officers. Thus, more high-profile shootings involving police occur, generating more racial tension, more riots, and more ratings and pageviews for media outlets.

[Clipper Nation]

Listen, I get what you, FWD, and the rest are trying to say...I just think you all are hopelessly naive about law enforcement in this country. The majority of these guys are public school graduates with no college education who are making damn-near Mexican wages--all to put up with scumbags on a daily basis. As Henry Swanson and ICB alluded to, I think you have this romanticized view of how all police officers should be (Mensa intelligence, SEAL team decision-making, delta force accuracy, etc). We probably have a lot of SVU and NCIS fans here, imo.

It's an imperfect system, and like any other group of people there's some scumbags among them. Still, I don't know what you're hoping to get with $35K/yr and a limited education. Perhaps liberals should be less gung-ho about taking care of Starbucks baristas and Mickey D's frycooks, and more interested in improving the wages (and subsequently, the vetting process) of police officers. The higher the pay, the more competitive the selection process, which equals more qualified candidates, right?

To be fair, policing is one of those jobs that will probably never attract the best and brightest, no matter how much money is pumped into it. There's the physical risk of death, the social risk to your reputation that comes from actually doing your job in today's world, having to deal with the scum of the Earth, and it doesn't seem like the most intellectually stimulating job to begin with. It takes a certain personality type to want that kind of job. Not saying it's a bad thing, it's just the truth.

[HarlemHeat37]

To be fair, policing is one of those jobs that will probably never attract the best and brightest, no matter how much money is pumped into it. There's the physical risk of death, the social risk to your reputation that comes from actually doing your job in today's world, having to deal with the scum of the Earth, and it doesn't seem like the most intellectually stimulating job to begin with. It takes a certain personality type to want that kind of job. Not saying it's a bad thing, it's just the truth.

While this is true, it depends where you live, tbh..

Canadian police, for example, are extremely well-paid..IIRC, 80% of uniformed Toronto police officers made more than 100k in 2016..considering the relatively low crime rate, salary, benefits and pension, it's a cushy job..

[Chinook]

Listen, I get what you, FWD, and the rest are trying to say...I just think you all are hopelessly naive about law enforcement in this country. The majority of these guys are public school graduates with no college education who are making damn-near Mexican wages--all to put up with scumbags on a daily basis. As Henry Swanson and ICB alluded to, I think you have this romanticized view of how all police officers should be (Mensa intelligence, SEAL team decision-making, delta force accuracy, etc). We probably have a lot of SVU and NCIS fans here, imo.

It's an imperfect system, and like any other group of people there's some scumbags among them. Still, I don't know what you're hoping to get with $35K/yr and a limited education. Perhaps liberals should be less gung-ho about taking care of Starbucks baristas and Mickey D's frycooks, and more interested in improving the wages (and subsequently, the vetting process) of police officers. The higher the pay, the more competitive the selection process, which equals more qualified candidates, right?

All that aside, just don't be a jack-ass when you get pulled over. Do what they say for the 10-15 minutes you have to deal with them, then be on your way.

If this guy's just an unfortunate deaf-mute with cerebral palsy, then I sincerely apologize.

There's a difference between how the police should act and how people should assume the police will react. I'll give that to you. In fact, I was saying that much in the Brown and Martin threads to the ire of the SJWs. But that never takes the burden off the system to have more competent officers, whether that takes money or just better diligence. A poorly paid, uneducated murderer is still a murderer.

Obviously, I'm not for assuming people are murderers off the bat. I believe there should always be an assumption of innocence and all that. I'm just saying that if these people are guilty, and the system made them vulnerable to doing this, then that's all the more reason to protest. And even with that, BLM and just people in general need to push toward spreading awareness about being safe around cops. People need to be taught to speak clearly and to not make sudden moves, to record everything but to cooperate, even if it doesn't seem necessary within a rights framework. Being a martyr still makes you dead.

I think we all know it's an imperfect system and that there are victims of that on both sides. Only way that gets better is to make a stink about it.

[DeadlyDynasty]

There's a difference between how the police should act and how people should assume the police will react. I'll give that to you. In fact, I was saying that much in the Brown and Martin threads to the ire of the SJWs. But that never takes the burden off the system to have more competent officers, whether that takes money or just better diligence. A poorly paid, uneducated murderer is still a murderer.

Obviously, I'm not for assuming people are murderers off the bat. I believe there should always be an assumption of innocence and all that. I'm just saying that if these people are guilty, and the system made them vulnerable to doing this, then that's all the more reason to protest. And even with that, BLM and just people in general need to push toward spreading awareness about being safe around cops. People need to be taught to speak clearly and to not make sudden moves, to record everything but to cooperate, even if it doesn't seem necessary within a rights framework. Being a martyr still makes you dead.

I think we all know it's an imperfect system and that there are victims of that on both sides. Only way that gets better is to make a stink about it.
+1

[Trill Clinton]

Same San Diego cops showed a lot of patience and restraint here

781020712056356864

[SpursforSix]

Same San Diego cops showed a lot of patience and restraint here

781020712056356864

Cherry picking imo. Find a video of a black guy getting killed and then pair it with one of a white guy not getting killed.

[Avante]

I will say all the cops I've known were assholes. An asshole with a gun, not good.

[DarrinS]

What makes me skeptical about so many of these cases is the behavior of the victims.

Sorry, but cops in that situation don't have time to go through a long list of "what if's".

[Chinook]

What makes me skeptical about so many of these cases is the behavior of the victims.

Sorry, but cops in that situation don't have time to go through a long list of "what if's".

Of course that do, especially when they were called by someone asking to help their brother or encounter a person with their car stopped on the highway. Cops shouldn't be looking for reasons not to kill people.

[Fabbs]

Hundreds of protesters gathered and marched in El Cajon Wednesday, demanding*that*police release a video of*an officer who opened fire and killed*an unarmed, reportedly mentally ill black man who nevertheless raised his hands as if holding a gun.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/crime-courts-fire/sd-me-shooting-protest-20160928-story.html

The man reportedly acting erratically at a strip mall in El Cajon was shot and killed by police after pulling an object from his pocket.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/whats-now/sd-me-protest-olango-20160928-story.html

Both separate links are from the San Diego Union Tribune.

[Fabbs]

Hopefully the video gets released to the public.

[Fabbs]

From the pic posted in the OP that guy is definitely in notepad stance
:lol
I'm not laughing at his disability.
Rather that cops need to have this added to the list of things to discern in 0.000000002 seconds.

Agree anytime a 911 call mentions mental, some kind of mental health team should be dispatched.
Taxes we pay in California there is no damn reason not to have a well educated well paid staff.
But I know that ain't how the world, and especially governments work.

[clambake]

dispatch a mental health team?


just introduce the nutcase to dr. glock.

[Clipper Nation]

I will say all the cops I've known were assholes. An asshole with a gun, not good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG4hOjJ9tEs

[DPG21920]

.

[Fabbs]

San Diego news now reporting a number of the protestors are not even locals but "professional protestors".

:lol professional protestors.

[InRareForm]

Is proffesional protestor something you can put on a resume?

[Fabbs]

LA Times reporting he was a head cook at a Hooters restaurant.

[Fabbs]

Is proffesional protestor something you can put on a resume?
Obnoxious, ability to block traffic, ability to stand in front of stores and obstruct customers. Idle handed.

[Chinook]

LA Times reporting he was a head cook at a Hooters restaurant.

A capital offense, obviously.

[Fabbs]

Do you guys think the protestors could be dispersed by offers of free watermelon and chicken?

[Fabbs]

http://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBwLQNq.img?h=373&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=1511&y=817

[Fabbs]

A capital offense, obviously.
No way. Why would it be an offense of any type to be a cook at Hooters?
I'm hoping the media will interview his co workers.

[Fabbs]

City of El Cajon mayor alienating the entire police force:

Mayor Bill Wells said he had seen the video and that it was not "tremendously complicated to figure out what happened."

"I saw a man who was distraught, and a man acting like he was in great pain," Wells said. "And I saw him get gunned down and killed. If he was my son, I would be devastated."

[DarrinS]

Do you guys think the protestors could be dispersed by offers of free watermelon and chicken?

Seriously dude?

[Fabbs]

Seriously dude?
Lighten up, Francis.

[Chinook]

No way. Why would it be an offense of any type to be a cook at Hooters?
I'm hoping the media will interview his co workers.

I will say that CNN's come out and said the object was a vaper (or whatever the name is for those E-cig things). So the palsey angle isn't really going to apply here. Could definitely see people thinking it was a weapon if the guy wanted it to look like one. Still need to release that vid, though. It's mad-sketchy that they released something that painted them in the best light possible while playing the "evidence for an investigation" card when it comes to the rest of it.

[Fabbs]

I will say that CNN's come out and said the object was a vaper (or whatever the name is for those E-cig things). So the palsey angle isn't really going to apply here. Could definitely see people thinking it was a weapon if the guy wanted it to look like one. Still need to release that vid, though. It's mad-sketchy that they released something that painted them in the best light possible while playing the "evidence for an investigation" card when it comes to the rest of it.
The picture clearly shows him in gun pointing mode. :lol
Perhaps the reason for cherry picking that picture, at this moment is so the protesting chimps, the *professional* ones/ and those who have no real interest in any fairness what so ever.....cannot stir up another Ferguson.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Seriously dude?Right? you would have to throw in some pigs feet and a pack of Kools

[Chinook]

The picture clearly shows him in gun pointing mode. :lol
Perhaps the reason for cherry picking that picture, at this moment is so the protesting chimps, the *professional* ones/ and those who have no real interest in any fairness what so ever.....cannot stir up another Ferguson.

Yeah, that's not the way it works. If you purposefully only show something that makes you look as good as possible, people aren't going to take it at face value. Again, this isn't a photo. It's a still. Who knows what it looked like a frame before or after? I'm not keen to bury the cops over this, but the department looks sketchy as shit right now.

[Fabbs]

Yeah, that's not the way it works.
It is exactly the way it works. Instigater Protester looking to stir up shit has NO interest in what really might be true.
Ferguson.

San Diego City, County State et al police depts. have signed off on a protocol for when video will be released. That squaking protester wants it released today is not how it happens. Now as to Legit Protester wanting to see the video, I agree it should be released. In time.

[Chinook]

It is exactly the way it works. Instigater Protester looking to stir up shit has NO interest in what really might be true.
Ferguson.

San Diego City, County State et al police depts. have signed off on a protocol for when video will be released. That squaking protester wants it released today is not how it happens. Now as to Legit Protester wanting to see the video, I agree it should be released. In time.

They've already violated that by releasing a still. It already taints the water. Nothing about it proves the officers' stories. It's only a small step up from talking about a person's criminal record.

[DeadlyDynasty]

It'd be nice if you were as skeptical of sensationalist media as you are with the police. We saw how the media mishandled Ferguson, not to mention the pathetic approach to the Trayvon Martin incident (wittle ol' 12 y/o Trayvon:cry pic juxtaposed with Zimmerman mugshot).

Photograph, still, whatever you want to call it--what the hell is that idiot doing in mexican stand-off posture with the police?

[Xevious]

2. If there is to be a shooting, why shouldn't the shots be aimed to injure rather than kill the person? Shooting that guy in the leg likely would have stopped any threat against the officers and allowed him to live to see another day instead of facing summary execution on the street.
I know this has been touched on already, but if a cop has to fire his gun, they are trained to aim for center mass. Period. It's the biggest target with less chance of an innocent bystander getting hit, and it's usually enough to stop the suspect.

Now whether or not firing the weapon at all was justified is another question.

[SpursforSix]

I know this has been touched on already, but if a cop has to fire his gun, they are trained to aim for center mass. Period. It's the biggest target with less chance of an innocent bystander getting hit, and it's usually enough to stop the suspect.

Now whether or not firing the weapon at all was justified is another question.

Not always the case though. If the guy has a gun and gets shot in the chest, there is still a chance for him to get some shots off. However, if the police were trained in Tactical Threat Neutralization, they could have shot the guy's hands. Which would 1) neutralize the threat and 2) keep the guy alive.

[Chinook]

It'd be nice if you were as skeptical of sensationalist media as you are with the police. We saw how the media mishandled Ferguson, not to mention the pathetic approach to the Trayvon Martin incident (wittle ol' 12 y/o Trayvon:cry pic juxtaposed with Zimmerman mugshot).

You don't remember my posts in those threads, do you?


Photograph, still, whatever you want to call it--what the hell is that idiot doing in mexican stand-off posture with the police?

Because it being a still allows for it to have not been a "posture" and more of a movement. If it were a photo, then someone would have had to get out their camera and actually click the shutter to get the image. Even if you have your phone out, the photo would suggest someone that wasn't transient.

I'm sure you've paused videos at interesting moments and caught the image in an interesting position. If you take that still and show it off, you can create a misleading perception about the contents of the video. That's the type of criticism the police open themselves up to by only sharing a still that makes them seem right. It's extremely sketchy.

[DeadlyDynasty]

You don't remember my posts in those threads, do you?



Because it being a still allows for it to have not been a "posture" and more of a movement. If it were a photo, then someone would have had to get out their camera and actually click the shutter to get the image. Even if you have your phone out, the photo would suggest someone that wasn't transient.

I'm sure you've paused videos at interesting moments and caught the image in an interesting position. If you take that still and show it off, you can create a misleading perception about the contents of the video. That's the type of criticism the police open themselves up to by only sharing a still that makes them seem right. It's extremely sketchy.
at what point would you be engaged in that stance when talking to authorities, even in a moment of passing? ffs he has the same posture as the fuzz. Who reaches for license, registration, a "notepad," a kleenex, fucking anything THAT intently? I'm trying to envision a scenario when I would pose like that in ANY situation, and I can't think of anything.

[Chinook]

at what point would you be engaged in that stance when talking to authorities, even in a moment of passing? ffs he has the same posture as the fuzz. Who reaches for license, registration, a "notepad," a kleenex, fucking anything THAT intently? I'm trying to envision a scenario when I would pose like that in ANY situation, and I can't think of anything.

Did we figure out that the guy wasn't mentally impaired? I can't imagine him being a cook with palsey, but that was just my baseless speculation. But the I thought the article said the guy was impaired.

Anyway, his is just circling back to the conversation we had yesterday. I understand that you can do something stupid and get shot. But that doesn't mean that the people who shot you can write it off. More than one party can be to blame.

[DeadlyDynasty]

and to answer your question...no, I don't remember your posts in those threads (nor anybody else's for that matter). If you called it right in those threads then props. As long as you weren't doing everything to absolve the perp's actions.

I ain't black (obviously), but where I'm currently located Americans in general are treated like scum. That Soviet, anti-west sentiment is still going strong on this side. If you have a blue passport you aren't getting served at restaurants, people are always suspicious of you, and you're unnecessarily searched/interrogated at almost every checkpoint, with either an AK or a PKM pointed in your general direction. I'm further at a disadvantage because I can't effectively communicate with them due to language barrier. I've found that cooperation, keeping my hands visible, and no sudden movements usually works.

I know the circumstances are different...I have no idea what it's like to be a minority in America (well, not yet), but do know what it's like to be hated by people who are looking for any good reason to shoot you. My point is this: I can't change where I'm from, just like they can't change the color of their skin. That being said, knowing you could be unjustly targeted is all the more reason to take very simple risk-mitigation measures when approached by armed personnel who could justifiably take your life.

Situational awareness...it's not a guarantee you'll live, but nobody's come up with a better realistic alternative.

[clambake]

of course they search you.

your name is deadly

[DeadlyDynasty]

of course they search you.

your name is deadly
lol tou-che, salesman

[Chinook]

and to answer your question...no, I don't remember your posts in those threads (nor anybody else's for that matter). If you called it right in those threads then props. As long as you weren't doing everything to absolve the perp's actions.

I ain't black (obviously), but where I'm currently located Americans in general are treated like scum. That Soviet, anti-west sentiment is still going strong on this side. If you have a blue passport you aren't getting served at restaurants, people are always suspicious of you, and you're unnecessarily searched/interrogated at almost every checkpoint, with either an AK or a PKM pointed in your general direction. I'm further at a disadvantage because I can't effectively communicate with them due to language barrier. I've found that cooperation, keeping my hands visible, and no sudden movements usually works.

I know the circumstances are different...I have no idea what it's like to be a minority in America (well, not yet), but do know what it's like to be hated by people who are looking for any good reason to shoot you. My point is this: I can't change where I'm from, just like they can't change the color of their skin. That being said, knowing you could be unjustly targeted is all the more reason to take very simple risk-mitigation measures when approached by armed personnel who could justifiably take your life.

Situational awareness...it's not a guarantee you'll live, but nobody's come up with a better realistic alternative.

Yeah, I was huge into situational awareness being the main focus of Martin and especially Brown. I wasn't a fan of the way Michael was martyred and glorified at all. When I went on my road trip, I kept my license and insurance info in a lanyard around my neck so it was clearly visible to police prior to them asking me to hand it over. There was no reaching into my pocket of glove compartment. Of course, my friend had his in his wallet, so when he reached for it I thought I was about to watch him die.

Anyway, being safe is important given the reality, but I think there's a major gap between what you should prepare to give and what the other people are entitled to take. And that's not just in the case of police or even tense potentially violent situations. Like I think there's a gap between what you should be willing to do for a friend and what a person has the right to expect their friends to do for them. Or how much you should tip versus how much a person should expect you to tip, and so on.

I think we need to make the police force better in all of these cases, because in addition to someone being killed unnecessarily, you've just ruined or at least altered a cop's life by making them a killer. Most people can't shake that reality so easily. It's not fair to them to put them out there with no training, or to put them in situations where the community hates them even to where they are in real danger just trying to do their jobs. Again, a lot that has to stop on both sides, situational awareness or no.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Did we figure out that the guy wasn't mentally impaired? I can't imagine him being a cook with palsey, but that was just my baseless speculation. But the I thought the article said the guy was impaired.

Anyway, his is just circling back to the conversation we had yesterday. I understand that you can do something stupid and get shot. But that doesn't mean that the people who shot you can write it off. More than one party can be to blame.

Absolutely. The problem is that even though the aforementioned "still" might represent only a split-second of what happened, I'd venture to say that shooting somebody is a split-second decision...assuming that you're not a sniper or serial killer.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Yeah, I was huge into situational awareness being the main focus of Martin and especially Brown. I wasn't a fan of the way Michael was martyred and glorified at all. When I went on my road trip, I kept my license and insurance info in a lanyard around my neck so it was clearly visible to police prior to them asking me to hand it over. There was no reaching into my pocket of glove compartment. Of course, my friend had his in his wallet, so when he reached for it I thought I was about to watch him die.

Anyway, being safe is important given the reality, but I think there's a major gap between what you should prepare to give and what the other people are entitled to take. And that's not just in the case of police or even tense potentially violent situations. Like I think there's a gap between what you should be willing to do for a friend and what a person has the right to expect their friends to do for them. Or how much you should tip versus how much a person should expect you to tip, and so on.

I think we need to make the police force better in all of these cases, because in addition to someone being killed unnecessarily, you've just ruined or at least altered a cop's life by making them a killer. Most people can't shake that reality so easily. It's not fair to them to put them out there with no training, or to put them in situations where the community hates them even to where they are in real danger just trying to do their jobs. Again, a lot that has to stop on both sides, situational awareness or no.
Good points. Unfortunately, the funding that was to go to police training has now been re-allocated to feed, clothe, and house Syrian refugees:depressed. I kid, I kid.
I've said my peace, we'll pick up the conversation in the next police shooting thread.

Go Ravens

[DMC]

Bottom line, it was suicide by cop. Cops killed a white man's fucking autistic kid and no one rioted.

[DMC]

Did we figure out that the guy wasn't mentally impaired? I can't imagine him being a cook with palsey, but that was just my baseless speculation. But the I thought the article said the guy was impaired.

Anyway, his is just circling back to the conversation we had yesterday. I understand that you can do something stupid and get shot. But that doesn't mean that the people who shot you can write it off. More than one party can be to blame.

Blame is fine, but your life is in your hands if you pretend to draw down on a guy pointing a firearm at you. It's like a car accident where you weren't at fault but you could have avoided it and you died. Dead is fucking dead, fault be damned.

[Fabbs]

The tragedy has gained attention in Africa, where officials from several countries criticized Olango's death and the succession of police killings of black men in the United States. Source: Yahoo News.

Oh I see. So they wanted their brother back in Africa?

Immigration officials said they tried unsuccessfully multiple times to obtain travel documents from the Ugandan government so he could be deported.

“This is often due to a foreign government’s refusal to accept the repatriation of its nationals,” ICE said.
:rolleyes

Immigration officials tried twice to deport Ugandan refugee fatally shot by El Cajon police

San Diego Union Tribune
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/la-me-ln-alfred-olango-el-cajon-police-20160929-snap-story.html

[Fabbs]

Yeah, that's not the way it works. If you purposefully only show something that makes you look as good as possible, people aren't going to take it at face value. Again, this isn't a photo. It's a still. Who knows what it looked like a frame before or after? I'm not keen to bury the cops over this, but the department looks sketchy as shit right now.
Ok, well you got the video now.
What does this change for you?

[Fabbs]

These are reasons why the video might be more enlightening. Instead, Fabbs used this as an example of misleading news. It's very possible that will be majorly ironic.
You have now seen the video and have been AWOL ever since.
Is it very possible it does not fit your narrative?

[Chinook]

You have now seen the video and have been AWOL ever since.
Is it very possible it does not fit your narrative?

I actually still haven't seen the video. I think you think I was following this story a lot more closely than I actually was. Is it linked ITT?