Where does Tony Parker rank in the best PGs of all-time debate?

[JohnnyMax]

Where do you guys have him ranked?

[apalisoc_9]

Top 15 for sure..Possibly top 10..Top 10 for sure if you dont include shitty 60s players.

[TheGreatYacht]

Inarguably Top 5

[Brazil]

no particular order

Magic
Robertson
Nash
CP3
Thomas
Curry
Kid
Payton
Westbrook

then you have the ones I'm not very familiar with tbh like cousin, frazier... stockton is overrated as fuck imho.. on top of my head

Top 15 is maybe not that of a reach if you give a lot of importance on number of rings tbh

[Brazil]

forgot guys like archibald but short career or jackson but meh

[rastaspur]

He doesn't crack top 15 imo. Barely on the fringe.


Here are 20 better pgs in no particular order:

Iverson
Isiah thomas
Magic
Gpayton
Kidd
Stockton
Westbrook (or will be in 2 years)
Billups
Cp3
Dave bing
Mark price
Lenny wilkens
Dennis johnson
Kevin johnson
Timmy hardaway
Walt frazier
Nate archibald
Bob cousy
Steve nash
Oscar roberson

I say tony is a fringe top 20 pg but better than those near him on my list like:

Norm nixon
Penny hardaway
Fat lever
Mark jackson
Rod strickland
Etc.

One could argue he is better than a cousy, bing, or wilkens but i say no because i compare players as greats by comparing them to their competition and era.

Cousy , bing and wilkens were better players in their era as compared to tony and his era.

Tony is no where near being the top point guard of his era. Imo that has to count for something when compiling a greatest of all time list.

The list cant consist of current point guards. History has to be taken into account

[apalisoc_9]

no particular order

Magic
Robertson
Nash
CP3
Thomas
Curry
Kid
Payton
Westbrook

then you have the ones I'm not very familiar with tbh like cousin, frazier... stockton is overrated as fuck imho.. on top of my head

Top 15 is maybe not that of a reach if you give a lot of importance on number of rings tbh

Nah..TP9 is a sure shot top 15 PG..Possibly top 10.

[Brazil]

Forgot Billups ! I'm a fan tbh..

[Brazil]

Nah..TP9 is a sure shot top 15 PG..Possibly top 10.

:lol if I say that some will say I'm a parkerstan

[tonight...you]

:lol if I say that some will say I'm a parkerstan
Effing Parkerstan. Smelled your raunch ass a mile away... Wait.

[Brazil]

you know I really don't know if he is top 10, 15, 20. I'd say top 15/20 considering the 60s/70s dudes on their reputation because I'm not that familiar with them but the fact he is in this kind of discussion (I just googled that and I find him right there between 10 and 20) is already a great achievement for a skinny 6'1 French guy drafted 28th at 19 y/o tbh

[TheGreatYacht]

ABA basketball :lol

[apalisoc_9]

60s players...:lmao

Cousey wouldnt even make it into today Johnston Highschool Varsity. :lmao

[apalisoc_9]

Mark Price :lmao

[rastaspur]

Mark Price :lmao

Mark price was a baller. You dont know because you have never watched him.

[apalisoc_9]

Mark price was a baller. You dont know because you have never watched him.

:lmao

[SD126]

Top 25...and that is pushing it.

[SASdynasty!]

Easily top 10...could be argued to be top 5 since he usually outplayed the best of his generation and wasn't a statpadder on teams that could never win a championship (Nash, CP3, Westbrook, etc.)

He's also the winningest player of all time (minimum 1000 games) and the leading playoff scoring PG of all time (passed up Magic a few years back). If he has a few more deep runs, there's a chance no point guard ever breaks his playoff scoring record.

[RD2191]

He doesn't.

[Kikoluna]

Prime Tony top 20-25.
Kyle Anderson: 18,499.

[barbacoataco]

Easily top 10...could be argued to be top 5 since he usually outplayed the best of his generation and wasn't a statpadder on teams that could never win a championship (Nash, CP3, Westbrook, etc.)

He's also the winningest player of all time (minimum 1000 games) and the leading playoff scoring PG of all time (passed up Magic a few years back). If he has a few more deep runs, there's a chance no point guard ever breaks his playoff scoring record.

Not sure where I would rate Parker, but I agree with your points. He did outplay or at least ah even in head to head match ups with supposedly better PG's in the playoffs year after year.

In the end it's hard to weigh whether he benefitted from being on a great team, versus how much credit he gets for making those teams great.

[Clipper Nation]

Nowhere even close. It's like asking where Marcus Banks or Reece Gaines ranks in the best PGs of all-time debate.

[Spurtacular]

stockton is overrated as fuck imho.

Yea, the all-time assists and steals leader and Dream Teamer, who shot 51.5 FG on his career and probably could've played til he was damn near 50 "is over-rated as fuck." :lmao

[BillMc]

I'm really amazed at all the love for Nash on here...

[daslicer]

In the last 25 years they have only been 4 PG's who have shot better FG percentage wise than Parker in the playoffs who have played atleast 50 plus playoff games. Those PG's are Kevin Johnson, CP3,Nash,Stockton.

[BillMc]

In the last 25 years they have only been 4 PG's who have shot better FG percentage wise than Parker in the playoffs who have played atleast 50 plus playoff games. Those PG's are Kevin Johnson, CP3,Nash,Stockton.

Not many titles there....

If TD is clearly greater than KG because his titles lead is 5-1, then an argument can be made that TP is greater than those guys when its 4-0. It's not the complete argument, of course. In the end, I'd have Stockton and possibly CP3 ahead of Parker, but not Nash or Johnson. People seem to forget Nash was a sieve on D....

Tony's rep has taken a hit on this site by the incessant anti-Parker pounding, but I'd have him on the low end of the Top Ten PGs all time.

[daslicer]

Not many titles there....

If TD is clearly greater than KG because his titles lead is 5-1, then an argument can be made that TP is greater than those guys when its 4-0. It's not the complete argument, of course. In the end, I'd have Stockton and possibly CP3 ahead of Parker, but not Nash or Johnson. People seem to forget Nash was a sieve on D....

Tony's rep has taken a hit on this site by the incessant anti-Parker pounding, but I'd have him on the low end of the Top Ten PGs all time.

I think a lot of hatred is based on his playoff numbers not being as good as his regular season numbers but I think people don't have a grasp of how the PG position is the easiest position to defend in basketball. The PG being the smallest player on the court also makes him easier to guard. On just about any PG you can always stick an athletic SG or SF defender to take him out of his game. That is pretty much what happened to Parker a lot during the playoffs. During the playoffs after he would burn an opposing PG the opponent would have a big perimeter player switch on him just like what the Thunder did in '12 by having Sefolosha guard him after the first first two games. I remember in '13 during game 7 when Lebron guarded Tony for majority of that game and we saw how that worked out. Whenever that switch happened Parker's game took a nose dive but I don't hold that against him since the majority of PG's offensively in that situation would have suffered the same faith. Look at what happened to Westbrook when Kawhi guarded him during the OKC series. PG's are just easier to guard its the reason why Curry's numbers also take a nosedive during the playoffs. In general I'm a strong believer in that PG's usually can't win championships by being the number 1 option.

With all that being said I would say fair criticism of Parker is that he was never a good defender and at best he was only average. He wasn't a great play maker either and average at best in that department. Also his inability to become a good jump shooter.

[spurs10]

Not many titles there....

If TD is clearly greater than KG because his titles lead is 5-1, then an argument can be made that TP is greater than those guys when its 4-0. It's not the complete argument, of course. In the end, I'd have Stockton and possibly CP3 ahead of Parker, but not Nash or Johnson. People seem to forget Nash was a sieve on D....

Tony's rep has taken a hit on this site by the incessant anti-Parker pounding, but I'd have him on the low end of the Top Ten PGs all time. This. Individual #'s and five bucks will get you a cup of coffee. Was Tony' success largely impacted by TD? Of course, but they won....in fact they have been the most winning team in all team sports for the entire time TP has been on the team. Not so bad.

[313]

How many other PGs in the top 10 have a FMVP? Isaiah Thomas..Chauncey..and? That's it.

[BillMc]

How many other PGs in the top 10 have a FMVP? Isaiah Thomas..Chauncey..and? That's it.

Magic Johnson.

[313]

Magic Johnson.
Yeah, Parker's in good company

[Kawhitstorm]

forgot guys like archibald but short career or jackson but meh

Seems like you skipped over the late 90s:

Kevin Johnson
Tim Hardaway
Penny Hardaway
Mark Price

Terry Porter was also the Billups of his era.

[Clipper Nation]

How many other PGs in the top 10 have a FMVP? Isaiah Thomas..Chauncey..and? That's it.
Don't forget Boobie Gibson in 2007.

[dabom]

Don't forget Boobie Gibson in 2007.

:lol

[sananspursfan21]

Not many titles there....

If TD is clearly greater than KG because his titles lead is 5-1, then an argument can be made that TP is greater than those guys when its 4-0. It's not the complete argument, of course. In the end, I'd have Stockton and possibly CP3 ahead of Parker, but not Nash or Johnson. People seem to forget Nash was a sieve on D....

Tony's rep has taken a hit on this site by the incessant anti-Parker pounding, but I'd have him on the low end of the Top Ten PGs all time.

This. Most people on here are looking through crap stained glasses. TP was the reason the Spurs offense was decent from 07-11. I'd say 8-10 all time

[gambit1990]

Not many titles there....

If TD is clearly greater than KG because his titles lead is 5-1, then an argument can be made that TP is greater than those guys when its 4-0. It's not the complete argument, of course.
cp3 and nash never had duncan on their team.

[gambit1990]

people on here are solely mistaken if they think parker ranks higher than nash all time :lol

[Diego20]

people on here are solely mistaken if they think parker ranks higher than nash all time :lol

:lol

[barbacoataco]

Parker was one of the best ever at getting into the paint and scoring. He was also a better defender in his prime than many (eg Steve Nash.). Once again it should be pointed out that he faced Nash, CP3, Deron Williams, Billups and many other great PG's in the playoffs and did very well most of the time. In his prime Parker was very fast and that gave him an edge that can't be discounted.

One of the problems with ranking all time PG's is they often had very different skill sets and game strengths. Also several of the supposed all time great PG's like Steve Nash and Chris Paul are on my overrated list.

[testies]

Below Nando de Colo

[Richard Simmons]

12. Toby Parker
13. Mike Conley Jr.

[james evans]

:lmao
Mark price was better than Parker. The ONLY thing parker had on Price was quickness. And it aint like Price was slow at all because it wasn't. As far as passing and shooting, it's not even close. Price wasn't a defensive wizard by any means, but he's no worse than Parker. I'll put it like this, a prime Price on the 03, 05, 07, 14, spurs team still win titles. A prime Parker on Cleveland in 92 and 93 are still eliminated by the Bulls. I know this because I've seen Price play since his days at GT, so it's not some shit I've seen on youtube. I still got tons of vhs tapes of Cavs vs Bulls playoff games over the years. All time, I'd have Parker ahead of him for accomplishments.

yeah, Parker isn't in the top 10 and won't ever be

[james evans]

Not many titles there....

If TD is clearly greater than KG because his titles lead is 5-1, then an argument can be made that TP is greater than those guys when its 4-0. It's not the complete argument, of course. In the end, I'd have Stockton and possibly CP3 ahead of Parker, but not Nash or Johnson. People seem to forget Nash was a sieve on D....

Tony's rep has taken a hit on this site by the incessant anti-Parker pounding, but I'd have him on the low end of the Top Ten PGs all time.
Magic, Zeke, Big O, Stockton, Kidd, Cousy, Payton, Fraizer, Archibald, Nash, CP3. Which one of those are you for sure putting Parker ahead of?

[cd021]

Top 10 especially if he hits 20,000 points, and 7,000 assists to go along with 4 championships. Would join Payton, Robertson and Lebron (still working in the assists) to reach those milestones.

[sasaint]

Magic, Zeke, Big O, Stockton, Kidd, Cousy, Payton, Fraizer, Archibald, Nash, CP3. Which one of those are you for sure putting Parker ahead of?

Frazier has been mentioned quite a bit in this thread. But I don't think I have seen Earl Monroe's name. (I think Monroe actually led the Knicks in assists during the 76-77 season.) Back in the day the guard position was not as specialized as it has become. I don't think BB fans or the media regarded either Frazier or Monroe as THE PG. They were just "The Rolls Royce Backcourt", and I loved watching them. (I really liked those Knicks teams of the 70s.)

[sasaint]

Jerry West.

[DMC]

Iverson wasn't a PG.

It depends on what you use to rank PGs. If you use assists he's no where close to the top. If you use the fact he has a finals MVP and 4 rings as a starting PG, then he's in the conversation. If you consider PGs that could break down a defense and score at will and fast break 1 on 3 successfully most of the time, that's TP. Prime TP was a beast.

[DMC]

Magic, Zeke, Big O, Stockton, Kidd, Cousy, Payton, Fraizer, Archibald, Nash, CP3. Which one of those are you for sure putting Parker ahead of?
Chris Paul. He hasn't done anything. Tony used to destroy him when we would play the Hornets.

[DMC]

cp3 and nash never had duncan on their team.

CP3 has a stacked team, can't do shit with it. He had a good team in New Orleans, couldn't do shit with it. Steve Nash was a good offensive PG, couldn't defend a hair on my balls. CP3 is a better defender than either TP or Nash, but CP3 is just a regular season hero. You folks who think he's more than that are sorely mistaken. You don't choke that many times unless you're a fugazi.

[daslicer]

Parker arguably is the best I have ever seen at scoring inside the paint for a PG. I think a few times he led the league for points in the paint.

[daslicer]

CP3 has a stacked team, can't do shit with it. He had a good team in New Orleans, couldn't do shit with it. Steve Nash was a good offensive PG, couldn't defend a hair on my balls. CP3 is a better defender than either TP or Nash, but CP3 is just a regular season hero. You folks who think he's more than that are sorely mistaken. You don't choke that many times unless you're a fugazi.

This to me is the biggest black mark against CP3. He choked against OKC in '14 which was a series the Clippers should have won if it wasn't for his ineptitude in the final 2 minutes of game 5. He also choked against the Rockets in '15 when they were up 3-1.

[SAGirl]

CP3 has a stacked team, can't do shit with it. He had a good team in New Orleans, couldn't do shit with it. Steve Nash was a good offensive PG, couldn't defend a hair on my balls. CP3 is a better defender than either TP or Nash, but CP3 is just a regular season hero. You folks who think he's more than that are sorely mistaken. You don't choke that many times unless you're a fugazi.
:lol straight up made me laugh lol I don't know what a fugazi is lol and I am scared to look it up.

Ppl do forget young Tony was simply amazing.

[gambit1990]

CP3 has a stacked team, can't do shit with it. He had a good team in New Orleans, couldn't do shit with it. Steve Nash was a good offensive PG, couldn't defend a hair on my balls. CP3 is a better defender than either TP or Nash, but CP3 is just a regular season hero. You folks who think he's more than that are sorely mistaken. You don't choke that many times unless you're a fugazi.
cp3's coaches: byron scott, vinny del negro, doc rivers.

nash was a masterful pg while in phoenix.

[gambit1990]

Ppl do forget young Tony was simply amazing.
you weren't even a fan when tony was young :lol

[Ginobili3]

Top 15. Magic, Robertson, CP3, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, Frazier, Isiah Thomas, Gary Payton & AI are all better. He's in that 2nd tier with Steph, Westbrook, Penny etc.

[BillMc]

Magic, Zeke, Big O, Stockton, Kidd, Cousy, Payton, Fraizer, Archibald, Nash, CP3. Which one of those are you for sure putting Parker ahead of?

I'd put him on par with Payton, Frazier, Archibald, and ahead of Nash and CP3 when you consider their body of work.


Top 15. Magic, Robertson, CP3, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, Frazier, Isiah Thomas, Gary Payton & AI are all better. He's in that 2nd tier with Steph, Westbrook, Penny etc.

I assume your top ten is ordered? If so, having CP3 that high isn't really tenable. And Stockton below Nash? John could do everything Nash could on O, and was an All-Defensive Team defender, while Nash was a joke on D. Stockton made the Finals twice, Nash and CP3 can't do it once. Frazier, also doesn't deserve to be that high. Neither does AI if you factor in ego and off-court issues. He wouldn't be worth the trouble after his prime.

Jerry West also played a lot of point. He often is listed as a two, but he could also make the list as a one, I think.

[Ginobili3]

I assume your top ten is ordered? If so, having CP3 that high isn't really tenable. And Stockton below Nash? John could do everything Nash could on O, and was an All-Defensive Team defender, while Nash was a joke on D. Stockton made the Finals twice, Nash and CP3 can't do it once. Frazier, also doesn't deserve to be that high. Neither does AI if you factor in ego and off-court issues. He wouldn't be worth the trouble after his prime.

Jerry West also played a lot of point. He often is listed as a two, but he could also make the list as a one, I think.

It isn't lol, was just listing off names.

[BillMc]

It isn't lol, was just listing off names.

Ok, bro. My bad. :toast

[DMC]

cp3's coaches: byron scott, vinny del negro, doc rivers.

nash was a masterful pg while in phoenix.

Lebron's coaches... Tyronn Lue, Mike Brown, Eric Spoelstra, white guy who's name I cannot recall.

The question isn't who had the best coaches. Doc Rivers didn't turn the ball over.

[sasaint]

Iverson wasn't a PG.

It depends on what you use to rank PGs. If you use assists he's no where close to the top. If you use the fact he has a finals MVP and 4 rings as a starting PG, then he's in the conversation. If you consider PGs that could break down a defense and score at will and fast break 1 on 3 successfully most of the time, that's TP. Prime TP was a beast.

Whether Iverson was a PG or not, I'd take Tony over AI 24-7. Iverson's hands had more "stickum" than Jack Tatum's. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Not bad for the last pick of the first round, tbh.

[sasaint]

I'd put him on par with Payton, Frazier, Archibald, and ahead of Nash and CP3 when you consider their body of work.



I assume your top ten is ordered? If so, having CP3 that high isn't really tenable. And Stockton below Nash? John could do everything Nash could on O, and was an All-Defensive Team defender, while Nash was a joke on D. Stockton made the Finals twice, Nash and CP3 can't do it once. Frazier, also doesn't deserve to be that high. Neither does AI if you factor in ego and off-court issues. He wouldn't be worth the trouble after his prime.

Jerry West also played a lot of point. He often is listed as a two, but he could also make the list as a one, I think.

As I commented above, back in the day, the guard position was not nearly as specialized as it has become. Both Frazier and West were really combo guards. (My favorite backcourt of all time is probably Frazier/Monroe - both really combo guards.) But if you look up career stats for all of these guys, each one would be a very good/great PG - especially West and Payton (another all-time personal favorite). I personally take West, Frazier and Payton over Tony. But I would take Tony over Archibald.

Actually, this thread has been a surprising eye-opener for me. I began reading it with a subconscious skepticism that Tony belonged in the discussion. But he clearly does. I would not put him in the top ten - especially if you include some of the combo guards from back in the day. But I probably would place him in the next 10 - possibly in 11-15.

[spurraider21]

price > parker imo

[SPURt]

Derek Fisher anyone? **crickets**

[sasaint]

Derek Fisher anyone? **crickets**

No. LOL! But on my list of "Players You Hate Who You Would Like to Have on Your Team" he ranks pretty high.

[BD24]

I think somewhere in the 15 - 20 range is probably fair. An argument could be made for him cracking the top 15 though for sure.

[dabom]

you weren't even a fan when tony was young :lol

:lol

[gambit1990]

Lebron's coaches... Tyronn Lue, Mike Brown, Eric Spoelstra, white guy who's name I cannot recall.

The question isn't who had the best coaches. Doc Rivers didn't turn the ball over.
most posters here acknowledge that cp3 ranks higher than tony. you rank tony higher?

[dabom]

CP3 is in another stratosphere than Tony. :lmao

[FkLA]

Top 50 probably. Might even have an argument for Top 45 imo.

[DMC]

most posters here acknowledge that cp3 ranks higher than tony. you rank tony higher?

I don't rank players. I just credit people who are successful and fault those who aren't, after each has had their opportunity to do things their way including where they play and who they play under/with. Tony wins.

[DMC]

CP3 is in another stratosphere than Tony. :lmao

There's only one stratosphere, idiot.

If you think CP3 is on a higher level, it's certainly not the jewelry level. Tony is one of the most successful PGs in the history of the NBA. So then it must be the stats and NBA 2K attributes.

Todays NBA fans.. :lol

[dabom]

There's only one stratosphere, idiot.

If you think CP3 is on a higher level, it's certainly not the jewelry level. Tony is one of the most successful PGs in the history of the NBA. So then it must be the stats and NBA 2K attributes.

Todays NBA fans.. :lol

It's a saying faggot. I'm not surprised you don't understand English, cuck. :lmao

Tim Duncan would have a 6peat with CP3. No fucking lie. Even the Spurs wanted to dump Tony in 2003. :lmao

[dabom]

Jason Kidd saved this cuck's whole legacy. :lmao

[tmtcsc]

This is a joke right?

[dabom]

This is a joke right?

What part faggot? :lmao

[DMC]

It's a saying faggot. I'm not surprised you don't understand English, cuck. :lmao

Tim Duncan would have a 6peat with CP3. No fucking lie. Even the Spurs wanted to dump Tony in 2003. :lmao
Tony 4
Paul 0

:lmao

[dabom]

Tony 4
Paul 0

:lmao

You wrote a whole fucking essay, and I was going to destroy you, then you changed everything to 4>0. :lmao

Get off me kid. :lmao

[DMC]

You wrote a whole fucking essay, and I was going to destroy you, then you changed everything to 4>0. :lmao

Get off me kid. :lmao
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/g_cLBw4xzBaJ2snr8VXXTnKmEQA=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2406578/tony_poll.0.png

Only thing you ever destroyed was a burrito and a box of twinkies.

[dabom]

That "twitter' doesnt include "all time", faggot. :lmao

Twitter poll. :lmao

[gambit1990]

I don't rank players.
how convenient.


https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/g_cLBw4xzBaJ2snr8VXXTnKmEQA=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2406578/tony_poll.0.png



dmc "i don't rank players but here's a twitter poll of other people ranking players" :lmao

[dabom]

how convenient.



dmc "i don't rank players but here's a twitter poll of other people ranking players" :lmao

:lmao

Those cali kids brah. :lol

[SASdynasty!]

Parker also has the best signature floater AND spin move of all time. Not many players can say they are the best of all time at any one move, much less 2.

[SASdynasty!]

CP3 is in another stratosphere than Tony. :lmao
Yah the stratosphere of players who can't get past the 2nd round of the playoffs in a decade with stacked teams and a championship coach.

[dabom]

Yah the stratosphere of players who can't get past the 2nd round of the playoffs in a decade with stacked teams and a championship coach.

Which stacked teams? You meant where he Literally went Supernova against the Spurs all on one leg. :lmao

[SASdynasty!]

It's a saying faggot. I'm not surprised you don't understand English, cuck. :lmao

Tim Duncan would have a 6peat with CP3. No fucking lie. Even the Spurs wanted to dump Tony in 2003. :lmao
Funny because they didn't. 4 championships later, here we are. And they don't even want to dump him now contrary to ST beliefs.

Oh and yah I'm sure we would have 6-peated. Probably 12 peated if we're being realistic. Unless of course CP3 fouled a 3-point shooter at the end of a series or threw the ball to the other team like he does in the early rounds of the playoffs in clutch situations.

[SASdynasty!]

Which stacked teams? You meant where he Literally went Supernova against the Spurs all on one leg. :lmao
Yah the one where it took him 7 games to get out of the first round of the playoffs once the Spurs were past their prime.

[sasaint]

Not bad for the last pick of the first round, tbh.

True. Since the league expanded to 30 teams has any pick in that position come close to the career that Tony has had? Is there any place to go to see such comparisons?

[FkLA]

Parker also has the best signature floater AND spin move of all time. Not many players can say they are the best of all time at any one move, much less 2.

Best spin move according to who? You aka his personal cum guzzler? :lol

[FkLA]

:lol Why are people using rings to compare a third option to a first option? That's like comparing someone like Klay, who is good but is also blessed to be on a great team with a historic player, to someone like OKC KD. Klay can have as many rings as he wants, OKC KD would still be the superior player every single day.

[Obstructed_View]

True. Since the league expanded to 30 teams has any pick in that position come close to the career that Tony has had? Is there any place to go to see such comparisons?

And if you redo that draft, Parker goes in the top three. The only reason it isn't the best pick in team history is because they also have one of the best picks of all time playing next to him.

[DMC]

how convenient.



dmc "i don't rank players but here's a twitter poll of other people ranking players" :lmao

I didn't vote, but it flies in the face of "everyone thinks" bullshit you carbon copy trolls post.

[Diego20]

Parker also has the best signature floater AND spin move of all time. Not many players can say they are the best of all time at any one move, much less 2.

???

This kid is a joke..

:lol

[Diego20]

TP > all PGs that have less rings than him



Parker fans :lol

[gambit1990]

I didn't vote, but it flies in the face of "everyone thinks" bullshit you carbon copy trolls post.
you posted the results of a twitter poll :lmao

[SASdynasty!]

:lol Why are people using rings to compare a third option to a first option? That's like comparing someone like Klay, who is good but is also blessed to be on a great team with a historic player, to someone like OKC KD. Klay can have as many rings as he wants, OKC KD would still be the superior player every single day.
2007: "Third option" = FMVP when Duncan and Manu underperformed in the Finals.
2014: "Third option" = Only All-Star, only All-NBA Player, leads team in scoring AND assists throughout the RS & playoffs (and leads the team in scoring in the Finals).

Lol, "third option"

[SASdynasty!]

Best spin move according to who? You aka his personal cum guzzler? :lol
Who has a better spin move?

[SASdynasty!]

???

This kid is a joke..

:lol
Instead of posting that, why don't you back up your statement and show me who has a better floater or better spin move?

[SASdynasty!]

TP > all PGs that have less rings than him



Parker fans :lol
You could think of it this way...combine all the other PGs (CP3, Westbrook, Curry, Payton, Nash, Kidd, etc.) and they still have less than him.

[FkLA]

2007: "Third option" = FMVP when Duncan and Manu underperformed in the Finals.
2014: "Third option" = Only All-Star, only All-NBA Player, leads team in scoring AND assists throughout the RS & playoffs (and leads the team in scoring in the Finals).

Lol, "third option"

2007: Prime Duncan, Prime Manu
2014: All-time greatest display of team basketball

Thanks for playing. You can resume guzzling his cum.

[lefty]

Mark price was a baller. You dont know because you have never watched him.

This

Injured TOSB Price shits on Porker :lmao

[lefty]

Parker also has the best signature floater AND spin move of all time. Not many players can say they are the best of all time at any one move, much less 2.

Floater : Mark Jackson

Spin move : Magic

Gtfo

[lefty]

Don't forget Boobie Gibson in 2007.

[james evans]

Chris Paul. He hasn't done anything. Tony used to destroy him when we would play the Hornets.
why are you up here lying to these people? :lol I personally hate googling and posting stats cuz that's what a lot of people do when they don't remember games, but I remember them well. I remember

but since you want to go with the "Parker used to kill Paul when he was with the hornets", the only playoff series they played agaisnt each other in 2008:

Paul 23 pts, 10 assits, 2 steals a game 50%
Parker 19 pts, 6 assits per game 49%

The series they went up 2-0 and everyone thought it was over and we had got "old"(we've been hearing that for years). Let's forget about Ginoli and Duncan being on the spurs as well. So if Parker was "killing" Paul, what was Paul doing to him? I won't even bring up the 2 Clipper vs Spurs stats. Tony outplayed him in 2012, but 2015, we know what happened. So in the 3 series they've played against each other, if anyone has the advantage, it's Chris Paul.

[james evans]

Floater : Mark Jackson

Spin move : Magic

Gtfo
Don't forget about Rod Strickland. His game was so smooth. This guy could get to the lane any and every time he wanted for layups and he wasn't a flashy player.

[james evans]

Top 50 probably. Might even have an argument for Top 45 imo.
HELL NO!!! Parker isn't a top 50 all time player haha. Are you crazy?

[J_Paco]

2007: Prime Duncan, Prime Manu
2014: All-time greatest display of team basketball

Thanks for playing. You can resume guzzling his cum.

Yet, he still won the Finals MVP over "prime" Duncan and Ginobili (as if he wasn't also in his prime) in '07.

"The ultimate display of team basketball," yet he was still leading the team in scoring and assists as the first option. Which you attempted to claim he isn't.

Don't know where Tony is ranked "all-time," but his accomplishments and accolades speak for themselves. He's definitely the greatest PG in Spurs history, the greatest guard from Europe and one of the greatest, if not the greatest, PG's from Europe/France.

[J_Paco]

Floater : Mark Jackson

Spin move : Magic

Gtfo

Tony does have one of the best spin moves, up-and-under and floaters for a guard ever. It is literally impossible to say who's was "best" but Tony helped to popularize the floater amongst NBA guards just like Manu and the Euro-Step.

[tmtcsc]

What part faggot? :lmao

Oh look who's back! Its the answer to the question nobody asked. DAFAGGOT! Tony Parker being mentioned in an all-time best PG list is a fucking joke to me...but don't let that stop you from acting like a cackle.

By the way, have you found all those threads that make you believe I'm a Porker fan yet? You little worthless Cuhnt. For fucks sake, I wiped you off my shoe a couple of months ago only to step on you in here again.

Instead of trying to sniff my ass in all these threads you should get back to your job as a glory-hole sucker and stop acting like your opinion means anything to anyone.

[J_Paco]

This

Injured TOSB Price shits on Porker :lmao

Sure, says the known Tony hater. Price was a better shooter and passer, but Tony would blow by him like he wasn't even there.

Mark Price, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Rod Strickland, etc., etc. aren't better than Parker. He isn't near the Magic, Stockton, West level, but he is definitely an all-time great PG. He just did it a different way for in some cases a very ungrateful, spoiled, hateful and whiny fanbase.

It'll be hilarious when the Spurs go back to the (no disrespect intended) Avery Johnson's of the league.

[DMC]

why are you up here lying to these people? :lol I personally hate googling and posting stats cuz that's what a lot of people do when they don't remember games, but I remember them well. I remember

but since you want to go with the "Parker used to kill Paul when he was with the hornets", the only playoff series they played agaisnt each other in 2008:

Paul 23 pts, 10 assits, 2 steals a game 50%
Parker 19 pts, 6 assits per game 49%

The series they went up 2-0 and everyone thought it was over and we had got "old"(we've been hearing that for years). Let's forget about Ginoli and Duncan being on the spurs as well. So if Parker was "killing" Paul, what was Paul doing to him? I won't even bring up the 2 Clipper vs Spurs stats. Tony outplayed him in 2012, but 2015, we know what happened. So in the 3 series they've played against each other, if anyone has the advantage, it's Chris Paul.
if you cannot win in 3 tries when you have the advantage, that says a lot about you.

[james evans]

if you cannot win in 3 tries when you have the advantage, that says a lot about you.
It wasn't solely cuz of Parker. First you said "Parker was killing Paul", now you want to talk about the TEAM EFFORT in what won the series because that "parker killing paul" example was nonsense.

[SASdynasty!]

2007: Prime Duncan, Prime Manu
2014: All-time greatest display of team basketball

Thanks for playing. You can resume guzzling his cum.
"Prime Ginobili" = 18/6 on 37% (lol, garbage)
"Prime Parker" = 25/5 on 57%

2014 Ginobili = 12/4 on 47%
2014 Parker = 17/6 on 50%

Third option, lol

[Brazil]

Yea, the all-time assists and steals leader and Dream Teamer, who shot 51.5 FG on his career and probably could've played til he was damn near 50 "is over-rated as fuck." :lmao

I said he was overrated as fuck I did not say he was a scrub neither Parker is better or something. A lot of dudes put him in the PG Goat discussion in top 3/5 even though he never won a LOB, people are overrating him. He was yes an assist and steal stats whore. Then :lol he is not 51.5 FG career, he is 51.5 RS career and 47.3 POs, not sure why you bring that anyway he was not a scorer

[Brazil]

Glad to see my nigg FkLA back, nothing better than a Parker thread to wake him up tbh... forgot tho to moderate his trolling... when you go to the lines of top 50 you make it too obvious tbh...

:lol

[lefty]

Sure, says the known Tony hater. Price was a better shooter and passer, but Tony would blow by him like he wasn't even there.

Mark Price, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Rod Strickland, etc., etc. aren't better than Parker. He isn't near the Magic, Stockton, West level, but he is definitely an all-time great PG. He just did it a different way for in some cases a very ungrateful, spoiled, hateful and whiny fanbase.

It'll be hilarious when the Spurs go back to the (no disrespect intended] Avery Johnson's of the league.
:lmao holy shit

[DMC]

It wasn't solely cuz of Parker. First you said "Parker was killing Paul", now you want to talk about the TEAM EFFORT in what won the series because that "parker killing paul" example was nonsense.
You said Paul had the advantage as if it was Paul vs Tony. Now you say it's not solely because of Parker. Make up your mind. Was it solely because of Paul?

[DMC]

What hurt TP was that his game didn't evolve as he aged. He peaked and then just kept trying to do the same things over and over and couldn't as he got older. That happened to Tim and Manu but they adjusted. Manu found other ways to turn the ball over and Tim stopped shooting that bank shot almost completely, and just became more of a defensive presence (or as much of one as ever).

[gambit1990]

What hurt TP was that his game didn't evolve as he aged. He peaked and then just kept trying to do the same things over and over and couldn't as he got older. That happened to Tim and Manu but they adjusted.
we know that.

and you're giving him the nod over chris paul :lol

[Spurtacular]

I said he was overrated as fuck I did not say he was a scrub neither Parker is better or something. A lot of dudes put him in the PG Goat discussion in top 3/5 even though he never won a LOB, people are overrating him. He was yes an assist and steal stats whore. Then :lol he is not 51.5 FG career, he is 51.5 RS career and 47.3 POs, not sure why you bring that anyway he was not a scorer

51.5 was his career FG, dude. The point is that he was a really good scorer to keep defenses honest and open up passing lanes and make shots when he needed to. And there's nothing wrong with Stockton being in the top 3-5 PG discussion. For most his career, Magic just lobbed the ball into Kareem and pushed the break at any opportunity, and many people have him GOAT PG if you want to talk over-rated. Stockton was a beast at both ends of the court. When Stockton blew Magic out of the water on assists, it's funny the accounts of him having a good cry about it.

[TheGreatYacht]

He was the second best player from the Big 3, and that's all that matters. It isn't arguable unless you're an Argie faggot

[BatManu20]

Sorry to disappoint the haters but TP is definitely Top 15.


4x Champ, Finals MVP, finished 3rd in MVP voting in 2013, on pace to finish Top 20 all-time in assists, etc. Career averages of 17ppg, 6 asts, and 1 stl on 50% shooting over 15 seasons. Easily Top 15. Y'all are crazy to think otherwise.

[Spurtacular]

At his peak from 07 to 10, I think Parker played like a top PG of all-time. But looking at the career as a whole, I'm not listing him top ten. He was basically too selfish and not at all clutch when the Spurs were making their championship runs. He also loses points for being a sh** teammate.

[TheGreatYacht]

Tony Parker ranks:
#10 all time in playoff points
#5 all time in playoff assists

Manu?

Not even in the same stratosphere :lmao

[Brazil]

51.5 was his career FG, dude. The point is that he was a really good scorer to keep defenses honest and open up passing lanes and make shots when he needed to. And there's nothing wrong with Stockton being in the top 3-5 PG discussion. For most his career, Magic just lobbed the ball into Kareem and pushed the break at any opportunity, and many people have him GOAT PG if you want to talk over-rated. Stockton was a beast at both ends of the court. When Stockton blew Magic out of the water on assists, it's funny the accounts of him having a good cry about it.

no 51.5 is RS career dude.

He was not a scorer, he often passed up shots to stat whore his assists ala Rondo... I know he is in top 3-5 PG discussion, that's why I said in that sense he is overrated. Then I don't see your point about Magic, are you saying Stockton is better than Magic ? :lol

[Spurtacular]

no 51.5 is RS career dude.

He was not a scorer, he often passed up shots to stat whore his assists ala Rondo... I know he is in top 3-5 PG discussion, that's why I said in that sense he is overrated. Then I don't see your point about Magic, are you saying Stockton is better than Magic ? :lol

You need to look again. 51.5 was FG and 54.something was EFG. I didn't even look at RS.

Stockton was a career 38.4 3FG shooter. The Rondo comparison is bunk. He passed on a lot of shots b/c he wanted to encourage his teammates to get open for better shots. I would probably take Stockton over Magic, yes.

[SASdynasty!]

What hurt TP was that his game didn't evolve as he aged. He peaked and then just kept trying to do the same things over and over and couldn't as he got older. That happened to Tim and Manu but they adjusted. Manu found other ways to turn the ball over and Tim stopped shooting that bank shot almost completely, and just became more of a defensive presence (or as much of one as ever).
Hahaha what?!
Parker has not only improved his outside jumper, but he's shot over 40% from 3 the past 2 seasons! How many other people in the league can say that? Then he also willingly has taken a back seat to Kawhi even though it meant the Spurs going from title contenders for 3 years in a row to early round exits the past two seasons.

[dabom]

Shot ZERO fucking percent from 3 in the clips series. :lol

[lefty]

Shot ZERO fucking percent from 3 in the clips series. :lol
That's not true , right?

I mean is he that bad?

[DMC]

we know that.

and you're giving him the nod over chris paul :lol

I don't need to. He beat CP3 consistently. Keep giggling about your shitty takes, CP3 will keep on being ringless.

[DMC]

Hahaha what?!
Parker has not only improved his outside jumper, but he's shot over 40% from 3 the past 2 seasons! How many other people in the league can say that? Then he also willingly has taken a back seat to Kawhi even though it meant the Spurs going from title contenders for 3 years in a row to early round exits the past two seasons.
Tony took very few 3pt shots over the past 2 years. Tony hasn't taken a back seat to anyone as is made painfully evident by how he freezes people out when he's on the floor.

[DMC]

You need to look again. 51.5 was FG and 54.something was EFG. I didn't even look at RS.

Stockton was a career 38.4 3FG shooter. The Rondo comparison is bunk. He passed on a lot of shots b/c he wanted to encourage his teammates to get open for better shots. I would probably take Stockton over Magic, yes.
Oh you're that kind of idiot, the kind who doubles down on stupid as if you've found a 4th dimension of reality. Magic and Malone would have gotten a ring, maybe a wedding ring but still.

[dabom]

That's not true , right?

I mean is he that bad?

:lol

[PublicOption]

He doesnt

[Brazil]

You need to look again. 51.5 was FG and 54.something was EFG. I didn't even look at RS.

Stockton was a career 38.4 3FG shooter. The Rondo comparison is bunk. He passed on a lot of shots b/c he wanted to encourage his teammates to get open for better shots. I would probably take Stockton over Magic, yes.

:lol he is 51.5 RS and 47.3 POs unless POs are not part of career.

oh ok so Stockton passed a lot of shots b/c he wanted to encourage teammates but I guess a guy Rondo just wants to stat padd... makes sense.

For the rest you are probably the only dude in the world that would take him over Magic :lol

[Man In Black]

I'm good with greatest European Point Guard ever.

I'd say he's not Top 10 ever. Not say that he wasn't capable, but he understood like all Spurs player who play for Pop. Your INDIVIDUAL GLORY isn't as important as your TEAM GLORY.

He has more rings than everybody on that Point Guard list except Magic and he's TIED with him.

[NameLess Scrub]

Did this turn into a "Parker vs Kawhi" or "Parker vs Manu" flame fest?

If it didn't OP is probably thinking the thread failed.

:lol

[Spurtacular]

Oh you're that kind of idiot, the kind who doubles down on stupid as if you've found a 4th dimension of reality. Magic and Malone would have gotten a ring, maybe a wedding ring but still.

Stockton and Malone I assume you mean. Jazz were better than those Bulls teams. Just harder when you're playing 8 on 5. That said, Malone choked.

[gambit1990]

I don't need to. He beat CP3 consistently. Keep giggling about your shitty takes, CP3 will keep on being ringless.
so you, sasdynasty, and thegreatyacht would take parker over cp3. got it. you're in good company :lol

[Spurtacular]

:lol he is 51.5 RS and 47.3 POs unless POs are not part of career.

oh ok so Stockton passed a lot of shots b/c he wanted to encourage teammates but I guess a guy Rondo just wants to stat padd... makes sense.

For the rest you are probably the only dude in the world that would take him over Magic :lol

Magic was bigger. There's a school of thought that when in doubt take the bigger player. But I just think nobody could orchestrate an offense like Stockton. And frankly, they were calling him The Glove on defense before Jordan or Payton.

[dabom]

so you, sasdynasty, and thegreatyacht would take parker over cp3. got it. you're in good company :lol

:lmao

[ThomasamohT]

This thread got me thinking about who the truly greatest pg of all time are. Taking a look at the top WS/48 all time, Tony ranks #21 among pg.

3 Chris Paul 0.2494
8 Magic Johnson* 0.2249
11 Jerry West* 0.2134
12 Bob Pettit* 0.2128
14 John Stockton* 0.2087
16 Oscar Robertson* 0.2069
23 Stephen Curry 0.1991
30 Sidney Moncrief 0.1873
33 Sam Jones* 0.1824
43 Kevin Johnson 0.1777
45. Walt Frazier* .1760
47 Chauncey Billups 0.1756
65 Steve Nash 0.1636
69 Jimmy Jones 0.1613
70 Russell Westbrook 0.161
76 Mark Price 0.1582
84 Paul Westphal 0.1551
101 Terry Porter 0.1499
109 Gary Payton* 0.1483
120 Terrell Brandon 0.1469
121 Tony Parker 0.1469

For some other notable pg out there:
177. Jason Kidd 0.1327
---- Isiah Thomas 0.109
---- Lenny Wilkins 0.120
---- Dennis Johnson 0.110
---- Bob Cousy 0.139
---- Tiny Archibald 0.128


I would definitely have trouble putting Tony in the top 10 all time but I'd say hes a lock top 20. I think he probably falls in the top 15.

[DMC]

Stockton and Malone I assume you mean. Jazz were better than those Bulls teams. Just harder when you're playing 8 on 5. That said, Malone choked.
No, you said you'd take Stockton over Magic, but Magic on that Jazz team and MJ probably is light at least one. Put Stockton on the showtime Lakers over Magic and you have the no-time Lakers.

[DMC]

so you, sasdynasty, and thegreatyacht would take parker over cp3. got it. you're in good company :lol
I don't have a team. They don't get career mulligans. They don't get resets. They both had opportunities to win in the NBA and one did and one didn't. "Best" is as much about choice as it is about ability.


:lmao stupid gnsf entry level trolls

[TD 21]

Yet, he still won the Finals MVP over "prime" Duncan and Ginobili (as if he wasn't also in his prime) in '07.

"The ultimate display of team basketball," yet he was still leading the team in scoring and assists as the first option. Which you attempted to claim he isn't.

Don't know where Tony is ranked "all-time," but his accomplishments and accolades speak for themselves. He's definitely the greatest PG in Spurs history, the greatest guard from Europe and one of the greatest, if not the greatest, PG's from Europe/France.

Finals MVP is a foolish award because it doesn't take into account the other 3 rounds. It should be playoff MVP and if it were, Duncan would have won hands down.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2007.html

Parker was very good, but he was clearly the third best player on that team, in what was the collective peak of the big three.


In '14, he made All-Star largely because as the best team in the league, they had to have a representative and his reputation was at an all time high thanks to career best seasons the previous 2, as well as the notion that it was "his team".

He led in points and assists (antiquated criteria) mostly because he led in mpg and usage rate. Though he further declined in the playoffs, on balance, he was probably the 4th best player on that team.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2014.html

[Spurtacular]

No, you said you'd take Stockton over Magic, but Magic on that Jazz team and MJ probably is light at least one. Put Stockton on the showtime Lakers over Magic and you have the no-time Lakers.

:lmao Cos Stockton couldn't figure out how to feed the ball to Kareem in the post....

[J_Paco]

Finals MVP is a foolish award because it doesn't take into account the other 3 rounds. It should be playoff MVP and if it were, Duncan would have won hands down.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2007.html

Parker was very good, but he was clearly the third best player on that team, in what was the collective peak of the big three.


In '14, he made All-Star largely because as the best team in the league, they had to have a representative and his reputation was at an all time high thanks to career best seasons the previous 2, as well as the notion that it was "his team".

He led in points and assists (antiquated criteria) mostly because he led in mpg and usage rate. Though he further declined in the playoffs, on balance, he was probably the 4th best player on that team.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2014.html

Oh, please. A "foolish award" when placed upon Parker, but lauded about endlessly for Duncan, Johnson, Abdul-Jabbar and Jordan. You are very, very selective and bias with your praise sometimes.

You can believe he was the third best player, but he still won Finals MVP and was selected to the all-star team that season.

Duncan was likely the "best" or most important player on all the Spurs championship teams, but Parker was vital in sweeping that series by absolutely annihilating his (lesser) match up.

Parker was still the main key cog offensively on the '14 championship team, but I agree he was beginning to decline and made the all-star team based on reputation. There definitely wasn't 3 players better than him and you are delusional if you believe so.

[Sean Cagney]

Top 25 maybe, not top 10 though by any means. I would have to go over a list of players and see all the names.

[gambit1990]

I don't have a team. They don't get career mulligans. They don't get resets. They both had opportunities to win in the NBA and one did and one didn't. "Best" is as much about choice as it is about ability.
:lmao

you don't deserve to be bolded for thinking tp is better than chris paul.

twitter poll posing bitch :lol

[sasaint]

This thread got me thinking about who the truly greatest pg of all time are. Taking a look at the top WS/48 all time, Tony ranks #21 among pg.

3 Chris Paul 0.2494
8 Magic Johnson* 0.2249
11 Jerry West* 0.2134
12 Bob Pettit* 0.2128
14 John Stockton* 0.2087
16 Oscar Robertson* 0.2069
23 Stephen Curry 0.1991
30 Sidney Moncrief 0.1873
33 Sam Jones* 0.1824
43 Kevin Johnson 0.1777
45. Walt Frazier* .1760
47 Chauncey Billups 0.1756
65 Steve Nash 0.1636
69 Jimmy Jones 0.1613
70 Russell Westbrook 0.161
76 Mark Price 0.1582
84 Paul Westphal 0.1551
101 Terry Porter 0.1499
109 Gary Payton* 0.1483
120 Terrell Brandon 0.1469
121 Tony Parker 0.1469

For some other notable pg out there:
177. Jason Kidd 0.1327
---- Isiah Thomas 0.109
---- Lenny Wilkins 0.120
---- Dennis Johnson 0.110
---- Bob Cousy 0.139
---- Tiny Archibald 0.128


I would definitely have trouble putting Tony in the top 10 all time but I'd say hes a lock top 20. I think he probably falls in the top 15.

Bob Pettit, PG? Must be a different Bob Pettit... Also, Sidney Moncrief played most of his career (by far) as a SG. So, as far as Tony is concerned, if you remove Pettit and Moncrief, he would move up two slots.

[james evans]

What hurt TP was that his game didn't evolve as he aged. He peaked and then just kept trying to do the same things over and over and couldn't as he got older. That happened to Tim and Manu but they adjusted. Manu found other ways to turn the ball over and Tim stopped shooting that bank shot almost completely, and just became more of a defensive presence (or as much of one as ever).
uhhhh, that's what we've been arguing with YOU for years!!!

[SASdynasty!]

This thread got me thinking about who the truly greatest pg of all time are. Taking a look at the top WS/48 all time, Tony ranks #21 among pg.

3 Chris Paul 0.2494
8 Magic Johnson* 0.2249
11 Jerry West* 0.2134
12 Bob Pettit* 0.2128
14 John Stockton* 0.2087
16 Oscar Robertson* 0.2069
23 Stephen Curry 0.1991
30 Sidney Moncrief 0.1873
33 Sam Jones* 0.1824
43 Kevin Johnson 0.1777
45. Walt Frazier* .1760
47 Chauncey Billups 0.1756
65 Steve Nash 0.1636
69 Jimmy Jones 0.1613
70 Russell Westbrook 0.161
76 Mark Price 0.1582
84 Paul Westphal 0.1551
101 Terry Porter 0.1499
109 Gary Payton* 0.1483
120 Terrell Brandon 0.1469
121 Tony Parker 0.1469

For some other notable pg out there:
177. Jason Kidd 0.1327
---- Isiah Thomas 0.109
---- Lenny Wilkins 0.120
---- Dennis Johnson 0.110
---- Bob Cousy 0.139
---- Tiny Archibald 0.128


I would definitely have trouble putting Tony in the top 10 all time but I'd say hes a lock top 20. I think he probably falls in the top 15.
Lol, Terrell Brandon. Chris Paul ahead of Magic. Isaiah at the bottom. Jimmy Jones! Hahahaha!

Just another case for the garbage nature of advanced stats.

[SASdynasty!]

so you, sasdynasty, and thegreatyacht would take parker over cp3. got it. you're in good company :lol
Of course you take a FMVP and 4x champion over arguably the greatest career choke artist in basketball history.

[SASdynasty!]

PGs with at least a FMVP & 4 championships:

1. Magic Johnson
2. Tony Parker

All-time leading playoff scoring PGs:

1. Tony Parker
2. Magic Johnson

Winningest NBA players of all-time (minimum 1000 games):

1. Tony Parker

[DMC]

:lmao Cos Stockton couldn't figure out how to feed the ball to Kareem in the post....

Pretty sure Stockton couldn't have done 42/15/7 as a backup center.

[DMC]

uhhhh, that's what we've been arguing with YOU for years!!!
No you haven't. I pointed this out years ago.

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao Porker stans playing the "playoff choker" card when they're defending one of the biggest chokers in NBA history:

http://s5.postimg.org/rcwjg880n/RS_PO_BPM_differentials_worst.png

[dabom]

:lmao Porker stans playing the "playoff choker" card when they're defending one of the biggest chokers in NBA history:

http://s5.postimg.org/rcwjg880n/RS_PO_BPM_differentials_worst.png

I swear. :lol

[Spurtacular]

Pretty sure Stockton couldn't have done 42/15/7 as a backup center.

I'll tell you what he would've done; established a solid pick n' roll with Worthy that Magic didn't do.

[DMC]

I'll tell you what he would've done; established a solid pick n' roll with Worthy that Magic didn't do.

Solid enough to lose in the Finals?

[DMC]

:lmao Porker stans playing the "playoff choker" card when they're defending one of the biggest chokers in NBA history:

http://s5.postimg.org/rcwjg880n/RS_PO_BPM_differentials_worst.png

Taylor Swift got a banner in Staples before your team did.

[TheGreatYacht]

Taylor Swift got a banner in Staples before your team did.
:lmao

[Spurtacular]

Solid enough to lose in the Finals?

Stockton was a better passer, shooter, defender...... Sounds better to me.

[TD 21]

Oh, please. A "foolish award" when placed upon Parker, but lauded about endlessly for Duncan, Johnson, Abdul-Jabbar and Jordan. You are very, very selective and bias with your praise sometimes.

You can believe he was the third best player, but he still won Finals MVP and was selected to the all-star team that season.

Duncan was likely the "best" or most important player on all the Spurs championship teams, but Parker was vital in sweeping that series by absolutely annihilating his (lesser) match up.

Parker was still the main key cog offensively on the '14 championship team, but I agree he was beginning to decline and made the all-star team based on reputation. There definitely wasn't 3 players better than him and you are delusional if you believe so.

Not by me. It's obviously a significant award, but I've always maintained that it's foolish. I'm not "selective and biased with my praise"; I tell it like it is.

Virtually every stat, advanced and counting, indicates Parker was the 3rd best player on the '07 team. He was definitely vital in sweeping the '07 Finals and deserved MVP for that series, though.

He may have been the "main key cog offensively on the '14 championship team", but he was still probably the fourth best player on balance and definitely not in the top 2.

[james evans]

PGs with at least a FMVP & 4 championships:

1. Magic Johnson
2. Tony Parker

All-time leading playoff scoring PGs:

1. Tony Parker
2. Magic Johnson

Winningest NBA players of all-time (minimum 1000 games):

1. Tony Parker
Pgs with a regular season mvp and 5 or more championships

Cousy
Magic

[Clipper Nation]

Taylor Swift got a banner in Staples before your team did.
Is this you? :wow

387476247359803392

[DMC]

Is this you? :wow

387476247359803392
http://images.performgroup.com/di/library/sporting_news/f9/5c/kobe-swift-082215-ftr-twitterjpg_medk1qo8xqd0122q7qynu88ru.jpg?t=1435678 175

[DMC]

Stockton was a better passer, shooter, defender...... Sounds better to me.
lol sure he was.

[J_Paco]

Not by me. It's obviously a significant award, but I've always maintained that it's foolish. I'm not "selective and biased with my praise"; I tell it like it is.

Virtually every stat, advanced and counting, indicates Parker was the 3rd best player on the '07 team. He was definitely vital in sweeping the '07 Finals and deserved MVP for that series, though.

He may have been the "main key cog offensively on the '14 championship team", but he was still probably the fourth best player on balance and definitely not in the top 2.

Once again, in your opinion.

I wholeheartedly disagree on both opinions. Parker was the second best player in '07 and the best player in '14, although Ginobili and Duncan weren't too far behind him in those respective seasons.

His flaws and limitations were obvious and sometimes glaring, but they are at times severly overstated. He was still an above average and against certain matchups good defender in '07, led the team in assists, second in points, was voted to the all-star team, but was somehow not better than Ginobili? Yeah, believe that nonsense if you want to.

Don't need to even go over '14 since he was the only dependable/consistent scorer on the team that season. He had reached his apex the season prior and was clearly beginning to decline, but no way were anyone of Duncan, Ginobili, Green or Splitter better than him. The argument can be made for Kawhi, although I would disagree, but the rest of them were essentially role players. Parker was still a top 10 PG in '14.

Anyway, the original statement of the Parker hater was that Tony "only won as a 'third' option" which is in tself a lie. Parker has won three championships as the 2nd option and one as the 1st option on offense. So, he was factually incorrect and then you ran with what I said and changed the argument more or less.

[james evans]

I'll tell you what he would've done; established a solid pick n' roll with Worthy that Magic didn't do.
Worthy was still at Carolina during 1980 when that finals occurred. And Wothy didn't need a pick n roll. You just give him the ball and let him go. Especially on the fast break. The celtics found out in 88.

[MaNu4Tres]

Parker being the best player in 07' and 14'?

My goodness.

Top 20. He should thank Tim and Manu.

[ElNono]

IMO, if you look at raw numbers, he's top 10... he's played in the league for too long, and he's done well. I can't compare with players in the 60's-70's, tbh... just from the 80's onwards.

Obviously, the fact that he's played with prime Duncan and Ginobili will always be an asterisk. He's the only member of the big 3 that didn't ring during his own statistical peak (08-13). And he was certainly fortunate that TD, Gino and Kawhi saved the 2014 season, on a playoff run where he was mired with injuries for the second time in a row. But only Spurfans that watched the games really know and remember the nitty-gritty, tbh.

People down the line will just look at the numbers, and it's undeniable that his longevity and general durability until the tail end of his career, along with a solid program and obviously his innate talent as a scorer has allowed him to put solid numbers.

Guys like Nash were fun to watch, but I doubt he had the kind of competitive spirit that pushes you to stare down a teammate. That's a competitor's look, IMO.

I've been mostly reading up, a lot of people bring good points, and obviously threads like this never settle anything, but personally I think history will be kind to Tony, and all of the big 3, actually. Now that TD is gone, gotta enjoy the other two while they're still around.

[tbdog]

Parker dominates (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/parker-scores-29-points-lead-sparks-over-sky-021944479--wnba.html)

[SASdynasty!]

:lmao Porker stans playing the "playoff choker" card when they're defending one of the biggest chokers in NBA history:

http://s5.postimg.org/rcwjg880n/RS_PO_BPM_differentials_worst.png
Nice list, I'll take Finals Dwayne Wade over CP3 every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[SASdynasty!]

Parker being the best player in 07' and 14'?

My goodness.

Top 20. He should thank Tim and Manu.
Haha thanks Manu for shooting 37% in 2007. And thanks for having the worst game of your career in G6 in 2013. And also thanks for your amazing defensive plays in 04 & 06.

[SASdynasty!]

IMO, if you look at raw numbers, he's top 10... he's played in the league for too long, and he's done well. I can't compare with players in the 60's-70's, tbh... just from the 80's onwards.

Obviously, the fact that he's played with prime Duncan and Ginobili will always be an asterisk. He's the only member of the big 3 that didn't ring during his own statistical peak (08-13). And he was certainly fortunate that TD, Gino and Kawhi saved the 2014 season, on a playoff run where he was mired with injuries for the second time in a row. But only Spurfans that watched the games really know and remember the nitty-gritty, tbh.

People down the line will just look at the numbers, and it's undeniable that his longevity and general durability until the tail end of his career, along with a solid program and obviously his innate talent as a scorer has allowed him to put solid numbers.

Guys like Nash were fun to watch, but I doubt he had the kind of competitive spirit that pushes you to stare down a teammate. That's a competitor's look, IMO.

I've been mostly reading up, a lot of people bring good points, and obviously threads like this never settle anything, but personally I think history will be kind to Tony, and all of the big 3, actually. Now that TD is gone, gotta enjoy the other two while they're still around.
Hahahaha what?!

-I love how Parker's "statistical peak" conveniently starts the year after he wins FMVP and the year before he is the only All-Star & All-NBA Spur who also leads the team in scoring throughout the RS, playoffs, and Finals and also leads the team in assists throughout the RS & playoffs. What a joke.

-And I love how the others "saved the season" when the OKC series didn't even go to 7, whereas Parker is the one who steps up in the Spurs only elimination game.

-Also, Parker gets an asterisk for playing with Ginobili? That means everyone who has ever played with a top-100 player (and one that rode the bench his whole career) has an asterisk by their career?! Haha wow!

Other than that, good post.

[BillMc]

Taylor Swift got a banner in Staples before your team did.
:lmao

[Spurtacular]

Worthy was still at Carolina during 1980 when that finals occurred. And Wothy didn't need a pick n roll. You just give him the ball and let him go. Especially on the fast break. The celtics found out in 88.

Worthy was sub par in the half court 'til Kareem aged / left, and he realized he had to pick it up. Stockton would've tapped that potential sooner. That's what he does. Magic wasn't some great maestro in the half court offense.

[lefty]

Worthy was sub par in the half court 'til Kareem aged / left, and he realized he had to pick it up. Stockton would've tapped that potential sooner. That's what he does. Magic wasn't some great maestro in the half court offense.
Agreed

Magic's passing is overrated as fuck

[TD 21]

Once again, in your opinion.

I wholeheartedly disagree on both opinions. Parker was the second best player in '07 and the best player in '14, although Ginobili and Duncan weren't too far behind him in those respective seasons.

His flaws and limitations were obvious and sometimes glaring, but they are at times severly overstated. He was still an above average and against certain matchups good defender in '07, led the team in assists, second in points, was voted to the all-star team, but was somehow not better than Ginobili? Yeah, believe that nonsense if you want to.

Don't need to even go over '14 since he was the only dependable/consistent scorer on the team that season. He had reached his apex the season prior and was clearly beginning to decline, but no way were anyone of Duncan, Ginobili, Green or Splitter better than him. The argument can be made for Kawhi, although I would disagree, but the rest of them were essentially role players. Parker was still a top 10 PG in '14.

Anyway, the original statement of the Parker hater was that Tony "only won as a 'third' option" which is in tself a lie. Parker has won three championships as the 2nd option and one as the 1st option on offense. So, he was factually incorrect and then you ran with what I said and changed the argument more or less.

I posted stats to back up my point; you've posted nothing to back up yours.

Ginobili played less minutes and had lesser counting stats and this was before the advanced stats era, so of course Parker received more individual accolades.

Being the best scorer doesn't automatically make one the best player. Duncan was the best all around player in '14 and had a strong argument for being the best center in the league.

First, second, third option, it's all semantics in this case. Parker was never the best player on a championship team and I never "changed the argument".

[Brazil]

Agreed

Magic's passing is overrated as fuck

you should create a thread about it tbh....

[Brazil]

Parker was never the best player on a championship team and I never "changed the argument".

neither Manu or Kawhi tbh

[Clipper Nation]

Nice list, I'll take Finals Dwayne Wade over CP3 every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

So would I. I'd also take him over Enrique "Point Guard Karl Malone" Porker.

[Clipper Nation]

Parker dominates (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/parker-scores-29-points-lead-sparks-over-sky-021944479--wnba.html)

Dominates what? The ball, as he dribbles the shot clock down to the last second? The competitive eating circuit, after he retires from the NBA?

[TD 21]

neither Manu or Kawhi tbh

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with what I said.

I'm not a Parker hater or a Ginobili fanboy, I just tell it like it is.

[HarlemHeat37]

TP is absolutely a top 10 PG of all-time, tbh..no, he wasn't the best player on a title team(although he was technically the #1 option on the 2014 team, despite being a net negative impact player), but he had a great peak(2013), a bunch of impressive accolades and decent longevity..

1. Magic
2. Curry
3. Nash
4. Stockton***
5. Paul
6. Isiah Thomas(although extremely overrated)
7. Payton
8. Kidd
9. Parker
10. Billups

[Brazil]

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with what I said.

I'm not a Parker hater or a Ginobili fanboy, I just tell it like it is.

did not follow the whole discussion tbh... just pointing out dat fact, a lot of fanboys act their guy were the big thing leading Spurs to a ring forgetting that there is only ONE big thing in San Antonio so far

I'm personally a Tim, Parker, Gino and Kawhi fanboy. The only I hate is Kyle Anderson tbh

[Brazil]

TP is absolutely a top 10 PG of all-time, tbh..no, he wasn't the best player on a title team(although he was technically the #1 option on the 2014 team, despite being a net negative impact player), but he had a great peak(2013), a bunch of impressive accolades and decent longevity..

1. Magic
2. Curry
3. Nash
4. Stockton***
5. Paul
6. Isiah Thomas(although extremely overrated)
7. Payton
8. Kidd
9. Parker
10. Billups

:tu for the list except for Nash... Kidd>Nash
:tu for the ***
and fuck man for the net negative

Do you agree btw that my nigg Billups is severly underrated tbh ?

[HarlemHeat37]

Parker's legacy and reputation would have received a massive boost had 6 not occurred, too, tbh..he was the best player on the team in 2013, had a great playoff run through 3 rounds, and the Memphis WCFs was probably the more impressive series of his career and one of the best playoff series' for a PG in recent history..sucks..

[TD 21]

Parker wasn't the definitive best player in '13 either. Duncan and him were essentially the co-best player.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2013.html

[tbdog]

Dominates what? The ball, as he dribbles the shot clock down to the last second? The competitive eating circuit, after he retires from the NBA?

click the link.

[lefty]

you should create a thread about it tbh....

I did imo

[gambit1990]

TP is absolutely a top 10 PG of all-time, tbh..no, he wasn't the best player on a title team(although he was technically the #1 option on the 2014 team, despite being a net negative impact player), but he had a great peak(2013), a bunch of impressive accolades and decent longevity..

1. Magic
2. Curry
3. Nash
4. Stockton***
5. Paul
6. Isiah Thomas(although extremely overrated)
7. Payton
8. Kidd
9. Parker
10. Billups
westbrook is better than parker.

[J_Paco]

Parker wasn't the definitive best player in '13 either. Duncan and him were essentially the co-best player.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2013.html

LOLOLOL

Now, I know your opinion is biased as hell.

[lilbthebasedgod]

Last

[ElNono]

Parker's legacy and reputation would have received a massive boost had 6 not occurred, too, tbh..he was the best player on the team in 2013, had a great playoff run through 3 rounds, and the Memphis WCFs was probably the more impressive series of his career and one of the best playoff series' for a PG in recent history..sucks..

It wasn't his fault. It's a shame his hammy betrayed him, tbh... he never really looked the same afterwards. That would've been his signature ring, at his peak, like Manu in '05. Just happy Tim, Manu and Kawhi could make up for it a year later, even if it meant landing LMA, tbh...

[Hoops Czar]

TP is absolutely a top 10 PG of all-time, tbh..no, he wasn't the best player on a title team(although he was technically the #1 option on the 2014 team, despite being a net negative impact player), but he had a great peak(2013), a bunch of impressive accolades and decent longevity..

1. Magic
2. Curry
3. Nash
4. Stockton***
5. Paul
6. Isiah Thomas(although extremely overrated)
7. Payton
8. Kidd
9. Parker
10. Billups

Why the * next to Stockton? Was it because he was a white American?

[james evans]

Worthy was sub par in the half court 'til Kareem aged / left, and he realized he had to pick it up. Stockton would've tapped that potential sooner. That's what he does. Magic wasn't some great maestro in the half court offense.


Agreed

Magic's passing is overrated as fuck
:lol this is nonsense. Big game James is a career 20ppg playoff performer with the lakers. Unlike Byron Scott, James turned it up in the post season. Now you guys want to try and make Stockton seem like he's better than Magic by talking bs about James Worthy having a sub par career? I swear you can't make up some of the shit I've heard online concerning basketball discussion.

[james evans]

Worthy was sub par in the half court 'til Kareem aged / left, and he realized he had to pick it up. Stockton would've tapped that potential sooner. That's what he does. Magic wasn't some great maestro in the half court offense.


TP is absolutely a top 10 PG of all-time, tbh..no, he wasn't the best player on a title team(although he was technically the #1 option on the 2014 team, despite being a net negative impact player), but he had a great peak(2013), a bunch of impressive accolades and decent longevity..

1. Magic
2. Curry
3. Nash
4. Stockton***
5. Paul
6. Isiah Thomas(although extremely overrated)
7. Payton
8. Kidd
9. Parker
10. Billups
I hope that isn't an all time listing? hahaha. And if Isiah is overrated, what is Parker? tell me something Parker does/did that Isiah couldn't? I'll wait for an answer. don't rush. Take your time.

[SASdynasty!]

I hope that isn't an all time listing? hahaha. And if Isiah is overrated, what is Parker? tell me something Parker does/did that Isiah couldn't? I'll wait for an answer. don't rush. Take your time.
Jeez, where do you start? He only made the playoffs 9 times in his entire career, whereas Parker will probably double that. Oh, and he shot 45% from the field for his career, lol. And that dropped in the playoffs. He was a bad 3 point shooter also, 29% for his career. He was also a turnover machine compared to Parker. And Isaiah will finish at best with half as many titles as Parker.

[lefty]

:lol this is nonsense. Big game James is a career 20ppg playoff performer with the lakers. Unlike Byron Scott, James turned it up in the post season. Now you guys want to try and make Stockton seem like he's better than Magic by talking bs about James Worthy having a sub par career? I swear you can't make up some of the shit I've heard online concerning basketball discussion.
During that 88 series, Stockton absolutely dominated Magic, despite having shittier teammates

If you can make fucking Bobby Hansen and Mark Eaton score more than 10 pt, then you are pretty good

[BillMc]

TP is absolutely a top 10 PG of all-time, tbh..no, he wasn't the best player on a title team(although he was technically the #1 option on the 2014 team, despite being a net negative impact player), but he had a great peak(2013), a bunch of impressive accolades and decent longevity..

1. Magic
2. Curry
3. Nash
4. Stockton***
5. Paul
6. Isiah Thomas(although extremely overrated)
7. Payton
8. Kidd
9. Parker
10. Billups

Stockton was vastly better than Nash. As good at least on offense, far far far better defender (I love how people forget this) and more successful in terms of winning and playoffs. Kidd and Thomas should be higher, Paul lower and Biliups not even on the list. Curry is the flavor of the day, probably won't end up that high. You've also no presence of any player before 1980.

Parker's about right though. :toast

[Brazil]

Parker wasn't the definitive best player in '13 either. Duncan and him were essentially the co-best player.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2013.html

absolutely like for every Spurs run including 2014 tbh... Tim was a fucking beast tbh even at 38 y/o... how lucky we are, easy all time great top 5

[Spurtacular]

:lol this is nonsense. Big game James is a career 20ppg playoff performer with the lakers. Unlike Byron Scott, James turned it up in the post season. Now you guys want to try and make Stockton seem like he's better than Magic by talking bs about James Worthy having a sub par career? I swear you can't make up some of the shit I've heard online concerning basketball discussion.

To clarify, I mean sub par by his potential and what he ultimately became. Worthy deferred in the half court offense til about the 88 Finals. That's about the time he finally became a number one option. Nobody said his career was not impressive. I'm saying Stockton would've woke him up sooner. James knew to get out on the break with Magic. Any other time, he was in cruise control.

[james evans]

Jeez, where do you start? He only made the playoffs 9 times in his entire career, whereas Parker will probably double that. Oh, and he shot 45% from the field for his career, lol. And that dropped in the playoffs. He was a bad 3 point shooter also, 29% for his career. He was also a turnover machine compared to Parker. And Isaiah will finish at best with half as many titles as Parker.
Isiah finished his career as 3rd all time leader in assists(but has since been passed by a few guys). He retired after only 12 seaons with an achilles tear late in his last season. Being great is not only doing great things with the ball, but knowing a mismatch on your team and allowing your teammates to exploit it(Joe Dumars 89 finals). Jordan wasn't a great 3 point shooter either. I dont know his % but I can guarantee you that it's VERY low. Guys like Isiah and Jordan didn't shoot manny 3's. Isiah came up during a time in which the 3 point shot was still new to the nba. The NBA first got the 3 point line in 1980, Isiah was drafted in 81. Same with Bernard King. These guys simply didn't shoot a lot of 3 pointers so that argument you're making is ridiculous. As for being a turnover machine, I didn't even have to google stats to know that's bullshit. Have watched both players during their time in the NBA. but I did google stats anyway and guess what I found? hmmm, Thomas only averaged 1.4 more turnovers per game than parker, but 3.4 assists more per game. Add in that Thomas played in an era in which you didn't know if were going to be clotheslined, sabbed, or shot driving into the lane and all of those things were just regular fouls. You were aware that Jordan was a shitty 3 point shooter aren't you? Do you know what Jordan's score was during the 1990 3 point shoot out? :lol Do you even know his all time %? You're welcome..

[james evans]

Stockton was vastly better than Nash. As good at least on offense, far far far better defender (I love how people forget this) and more successful in terms of winning and playoffs. Kidd and Thomas should be higher, Paul lower and Biliups not even on the list. Curry is the flavor of the day, probably won't end up that high. You've also no presence of any player before 1980.

Parker's about right though. :toast
U are aware that Cousey and robertson aren't on that list right?

[james evans]

During that 88 series, Stockton absolutely dominated Magic, despite having shittier teammates

If you can make fucking Bobby Hansen and Mark Eaton score more than 10 pt, then you are pretty good
Wasn't really that hard to dominate Magic. his defense was trash. sorta like another point guard we all know

[BillMc]

U are aware that Cousey and robertson aren't on that list right?

That was my point about no one before 1980. No list is complete without them

[dabom]

Wasn't really that hard to dominate Magic. his defense was trash. sorta like another point guard we all know

:lol

[TD 21]

LOLOLOL

Now, I know your opinion is biased as hell.

Once again, I provide stats to back up my point; you provide nothing, but I'm the one who's biased? You're an idiot.



absolutely like for every Spurs run including 2014 tbh... Tim was a fucking beast tbh even at 38 y/o... how lucky we are, easy all time great top 5

:tu

[gambit1990]

tp doesn't even crack the top 5 amongst his own contemporaries.

you take kidd, nash, cp3, westbrook, and curry over him. easily.

[SASdynasty!]

Isiah finished his career as 3rd all time leader in assists(but has since been passed by a few guys). He retired after only 12 seaons with an achilles tear late in his last season. Being great is not only doing great things with the ball, but knowing a mismatch on your team and allowing your teammates to exploit it(Joe Dumars 89 finals). Jordan wasn't a great 3 point shooter either. I dont know his % but I can guarantee you that it's VERY low. Guys like Isiah and Jordan didn't shoot manny 3's. Isiah came up during a time in which the 3 point shot was still new to the nba. The NBA first got the 3 point line in 1980, Isiah was drafted in 81. Same with Bernard King. These guys simply didn't shoot a lot of 3 pointers so that argument you're making is ridiculous. As for being a turnover machine, I didn't even have to google stats to know that's bullshit. Have watched both players during their time in the NBA. but I did google stats anyway and guess what I found? hmmm, Thomas only averaged 1.4 more turnovers per game than parker, but 3.4 assists more per game. Add in that Thomas played in an era in which you didn't know if were going to be clotheslined, sabbed, or shot driving into the lane and all of those things were just regular fouls. You were aware that Jordan was a shitty 3 point shooter aren't you? Do you know what Jordan's score was during the 1990 3 point shoot out? :lol Do you even know his all time %? You're welcome..
You said you would wait until someone could tell you one thing Parker did better than Isaiah. So I gave you like 5 different things to which you started making excuses..."but the 3-point line had just come into the league, but Isaiah only averaged 1.4 more turnovers a game (which is a lot by the way), but Jordan wasn't a good 3-point shooter either" (lol, and..?!?), etc, etc. Then you start saying Isaiah had more assists, I agree. But I'm not the one claiming Parker did everything better than Isaiah like you are but the other way around.

[SASdynasty!]

tp doesn't even crack the top 5 amongst his own contemporaries.

you take kidd, nash, cp3, westbrook, and curry over him. easily.
Parker has twice as many rings as your entire list combined...and infinitely more FMVPs.

[gambit1990]

Parker has twice as many rings as your entire list combined...and infinitely more FMVPs.
derek fisher has more rings than parker.

[J_Paco]

Once again, I provide stats to back up my point; you provide nothing, but I'm the one who's biased? You're an idiot.


You are clearly biased (username says it all) when you claim that a 38 year old, on a minutes restriction, playing a reduced role was better than an all-star, MVP candidate at his very peak (in 2013).

Parker was a playmaker (7.7 APG), scorer (20.6 PPG) and was defensively solid as well. His game will always look poor (within advanced metrics) since he doesn't average high assists, doesn't shot well/consistently from outside and isn't a great gambler on defense (like Manu).

In '07 Parker was second in PPG (18.6), first in APG (5.5), second in steals (1.1), second in MPG (32.5), made the all-star team and won Finals MVP. He did all that complimenting the best player in franchise history, but was the "third best player" because TD 21 and advanced metrics say so.

Your opinion isn't the end all be all regardless of "metrics." I love Parker, Duncan and Ginobili equally and all three have outperformed one another at different points (be it RS or playoffs) which is great because the won a tremendous amount together.

:bobo:bobo:bobo

[gambit1990]

In '07 Parker was second in PPG (18.6), first in APG (5.5), second in steals (1.1), second in MPG (32.5), made the all-star team and won Finals MVP. He did all that complimenting the best player in franchise history, but was "third best" because TD 21 and advanced stats say
pointing out that a starting point guard averaged 5.5 assists and using it as a compliment :lmao

number of assists that season:


1.
Steve Nash (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html) • PHO
884


2.
Deron Williams (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willide01.html) • UTA
745


3.
Jason Kidd (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kiddja01.html) • NJN
736


4.
Andre Miller (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millean02.html) • TOT
625


5.
T.J. Ford (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fordtj01.html) • TOR
595


6.
Chris Paul (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html) • NOK
569


7.
Raymond Felton (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/feltora01.html) • CHA
545


8.
Baron Davis (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/davisba01.html) • GSW
509


9.
Chauncey Billups (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/billuch01.html) • DET
502


10.
Kirk Hinrich (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hinriki01.html) • CHI
500


11.
Jamaal Tinsley (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tinslja01.html) • IND
494


12.
LeBron James (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html) • CLE
470


13.
Allen Iverson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iversal01.html)* • TOT
468


14.
Tracy McGrady (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgratr01.html) • HOU
458


15.
Rafer Alston (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/alstora01.html) • HOU
444


16.
Gilbert Arenas (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/arenagi01.html) • WAS
443


17.
Earl Watson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/watsoea01.html) • SEA
437


18.
Andre Iguodala (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iguodan01.html) • PHI
432


19.
Jason Terry (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/terryja01.html) • DAL
422


20.
Tony Parker (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html) • SAS
420



5.5 assists :lmao

[J_Paco]

pointing out that a starting point guard averaged 5.5 assists and using it as a compliment :lmao

number of assists that season:


1.
Steve Nash (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html) • PHO
884


2.
Deron Williams (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willide01.html) • UTA
745


3.
Jason Kidd (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kiddja01.html) • NJN
736


4.
Andre Miller (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millean02.html) • TOT
625


5.
T.J. Ford (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fordtj01.html) • TOR
595


6.
Chris Paul (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html) • NOK
569


7.
Raymond Felton (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/feltora01.html) • CHA
545


8.
Baron Davis (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/davisba01.html) • GSW
509


9.
Chauncey Billups (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/billuch01.html) • DET
502


10.
Kirk Hinrich (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hinriki01.html) • CHI
500


11.
Jamaal Tinsley (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tinslja01.html) • IND
494


12.
LeBron James (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html) • CLE
470


13.
Allen Iverson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iversal01.html)* • TOT
468


14.
Tracy McGrady (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgratr01.html) • HOU
458


15.
Rafer Alston (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/alstora01.html) • HOU
444


16.
Gilbert Arenas (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/arenagi01.html) • WAS
443


17.
Earl Watson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/watsoea01.html) • SEA
437


18.
Andre Iguodala (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iguodan01.html) • PHI
432


19.
Jason Terry (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/terryja01.html) • DAL
422


20.
Tony Parker (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html) • SAS
420



5.5 assists :lmao

The offense was never reliant on him creating (at that time) offense for other players, but when given more responsibility and opportunity Parker has proved to be a solid passer.

Also:

Kyrie Irving APG Career: 5.5 '14-'15: 4.7

Anyway, none of this back-and-forth matters since Parker is headed to the HOF and is at the very least the greatest PG in franchise history.

[gambit1990]

The offense was never reliant on him creating (at that time) offense for other players, but when given more responsibility and opportunity Parker has proved to be a solid passer.

Also:

Kyrie Irving APG Career: 5.5 '14-'15: 4.7

Anyway, none of this back-and-forth matters since Parker is headed to the HOF and is at the very least the greatest PG in franchise history.
kyrie is trash.

you all of sudden not propping up parker for averaging so little assists :lol

[J_Paco]

kyrie is trash.

you all of sudden not propping up parker for averaging so little assists :lol

He wasn't asked to create offense, you know since Duncan was still the best player in the NBA, for his teammates, jack ass. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

As he was given more responsibility his APG increased to more "respectable" rates. He was never going to be like a Deron Williams, Jason Kidd or Steve Nash being the only playmaker/facilitator on the floor. He shared that responsibility with the equally adapt Ginobili (3.4) and Duncan (3.5) that season and throughout most of his (prime and) career.

[gambit1990]

He wasn't asked to create offense, you know since Duncan was still the best player in the NBA, for his teammates, jack ass. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

As he was given more responsibility his APG increased to more "respectable" rates. He was never going to be like a Deron Williams, Jason Kidd or Steve Nash being the only playmaker/facilitator on the floor. He shared that responsibility with the equally adapt Ginobili (3.4) and Duncan (3.5) that season.
tp averages 5.9 assists for his career.

[gambit1990]

and tony averages even less in the playoffs! 5.2 apg in the playoffs :lmao

[diego]

In the playoffs, 06-14 (apparently parkers best years)-
Parker 2173 fga.. 531ts
Duncan 1952 fga . 543ts
Manu 1421 fga.. 574ts

Tony fans talking about him leading the team in scoring when he took +10% more shots than the next closest player :lol
As a PG :lol
Tony fans talking up his 3pt % as if it were relevant :lol

Tony is a great player, best spurs PG and somewhere in the top 20-25 at his position for me. It's difficult to rate him there because he was more scorer than point and playing in San Antonio all of the big 3 sacrificed personal stats. By the traditional standard Parker was a mediocre PG, but as a scorer / slasher he is top 5 easy.

[SASdynasty!]

Parker has twice as many rings as your entire list combined...and infinitely more FMVPs.
Having 25% more rings than another player is one thing. Having 200% more rings than a group of 5 players is another.

[SASdynasty!]

and tony averages even less in the playoffs! 5.2 apg in the playoffs :lmao
Tell Duncan to make his move earlier if you want to see more Parker assists. In the early days he almost always guaranteed an assist forfeit because of how long he held the ball before he went into his move. He was the anti-Malone in that way, but it worked.

[J_Paco]

tp averages 5.9 assists for his career.

He's played 15 years with a high caliber SG (for most of that time) and the greatest PF/C everlr never being asked to be the sole playmaker until 3 or 4 years ago.

It isn't hard to understand unless you're very stupid or dense as hell.

I'm not propping up his low assists - that was the worse part of his game with outside shooting - just stating that he consistently led the team in that category.

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao Porker stans are now throwing DUNCAN under the bus to prop up their boy. This is a new low.

[lefty]

:lmao Porker stans are now throwing DUNCAN under the bus to prop up their boy. This is a new low.

[lefty]

Isiah finished his career as 3rd all time leader in assists(but has since been passed by a few guys). He retired after only 12 seaons with an achilles tear late in his last season. Being great is not only doing great things with the ball, but knowing a mismatch on your team and allowing your teammates to exploit it(Joe Dumars 89 finals). Jordan wasn't a great 3 point shooter either. I dont know his % but I can guarantee you that it's VERY low. Guys like Isiah and Jordan didn't shoot manny 3's. Isiah came up during a time in which the 3 point shot was still new to the nba. The NBA first got the 3 point line in 1980, Isiah was drafted in 81. Same with Bernard King. These guys simply didn't shoot a lot of 3 pointers so that argument you're making is ridiculous. As for being a turnover machine, I didn't even have to google stats to know that's bullshit. Have watched both players during their time in the NBA. but I did google stats anyway and guess what I found? hmmm, Thomas only averaged 1.4 more turnovers per game than parker, but 3.4 assists more per game. Add in that Thomas played in an era in which you didn't know if were going to be clotheslined, sabbed, or shot driving into the lane and all of those things were just regular fouls. You were aware that Jordan was a shitty 3 point shooter aren't you? Do you know what Jordan's score was during the 1990 3 point shoot out? :lol Do you even know his all time %? You're welcome..

My nigguh


:lmao can't believe Porkerstans are comparing that phaggot to Zele

Actually I do

[J_Paco]

:lmao Porker stans are now throwing DUNCAN under the bus to prop up their boy. This is a new low.

You fucking clowns will claim anything. No one threw the best PF/C ever, arguably the best teammate/leader and a top 5 all-time great "under the bus," you clowns.

Let me rephrase that, I'm not dissing Timmy to prop up Tony.

[J_Paco]

In the playoffs, 06-14 (apparently parkers best years)-
Parker 2173 fga.. 531ts
Duncan 1952 fga . 543ts
Manu 1421 fga.. 574ts

Tony fans talking about him leading the team in scoring when he took +10% more shots than the next closest player :lol
As a PG :lol
Tony fans talking up his 3pt % as if it were relevant :lol

Tony is a great player, best spurs PG and somewhere in the top 20-25 at his position for me. It's difficult to rate him there because he was more scorer than point and playing in San Antonio all of the big 3 sacrificed personal stats. By the traditional standard Parker was a mediocre PG, but as a scorer / slasher he is top 5 easy.

The argument being made against him was that "he never won as a first-option" but that is untrue since the Spurs did exactly that in '14.

His placement on any list, who he is or isn't better than and anything else is subjective, but the 2014 NBA championship (plus 3 more) and his 2007 Finals MVP aren't.

Like you mentioned, the "Big 3" sacrificed personal numbers and glory - Timmy was able to be dominate while also being unselfish - for the betterment of the entire team. Tony and Manu both could have bolted to bigger markets or bigger roles, but the success would likely not have been there.

[TheGreatYacht]

Talking about the Duncan.... He deserved the FMVP in 2014. Easily the best player in that team

[Spurminator]

Here are the PG's I'd rank above Parker in NBA history:

Oscar
Magic
West
Cousy
Stockton
Isiah
CP3
Iverson
Kidd
Payton
Nash
Curry

Most likely Westbrook passes him by the time he's done, but even with that Parker is solidly in the mid-teens as far as all time rank.

Basketball Reference's HOF Index has Parker at #14 all time for PG's. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html

Not bad. Kinda sucks for Spurs fans who chose not to enjoy the ride. When you have even a top 25 all-time point guard, the odds are very high that you'll never see a better PG in a Spurs uniform. Even worse odds you'll have one stick with your team his entire career.

[TD 21]

You are clearly biased (username says it all) when you claim that a 38 year old, on a minutes restriction, playing a reduced role was better than an all-star, MVP candidate at his very peak (in 2013).

Parker was a playmaker (7.7 APG), scorer (20.6 PPG) and was defensively solid as well. His game will always look poor (within advanced metrics) since he doesn't average high assists, doesn't shot well/consistently from outside and isn't a great gambler on defense (like Manu).

In '07 Parker was second in PPG (18.6), first in APG (5.5), second in steals (1.1), second in MPG (32.5), made the all-star team and won Finals MVP. He did all that complimenting the best player in franchise history, but was the "third best player" because TD 21 and advanced metrics say so.

Your opinion isn't the end all be all regardless of "metrics." I love Parker, Duncan and Ginobili equally and all three have outperformed one another at different points (be it RS or playoffs) which is great because the won a tremendous amount together.

:bobo:bobo:bobo


Irrelevant information. By the way, Duncan was also an All-Star and MVP candidate, as well as a DPOY candidate and 1st team All-NBA, in '13.

Typical antiquated, vanilla fan. Doesn't understand advanced stats, therefore they must be wrong. You also clearly don't understand that counting stats are mostly about context (Parker, for example, scored more than Ginobili because he played more and had a higher usage rate), which is why they're largely irrelevant.

I like Ginobili and Parker equally, but Parker was never definitively better than a healthy Ginobili (before you predictably bring up '13, Ginobili had a lingering hamstring injury) for an extended stretch.

I'm tired of overly sensitive types acting as if I've ever said or inferred my opinion was the end all be all. Heaven forbid I have an opinion that differs from yours. It's funny how my opinion and advanced stats supposedly don't count, but yours and your antiquated ones do. That makes sense.

[Robz4000]

Top 5-10 seems right.

[james evans]

You said you would wait until someone could tell you one thing Parker did better than Isaiah. So I gave you like 5 different things to which you started making excuses..."but the 3-point line had just come into the league, but Isaiah only averaged 1.4 more turnovers a game (which is a lot by the way), but Jordan wasn't a good 3-point shooter either" (lol, and..?!?), etc, etc. Then you start saying Isaiah had more assists, I agree. But I'm not the one claiming Parker did everything better than Isaiah like you are but the other way around.
How are you gonna base someone being a better 3 point shooter than someone in which a 3 point line wasn't even available during their high school and college careers. He hardly ever shot them haha. And as for Isiah being a turnover machine, u obviously didn't watch him in his prime and Parker was probably the first player you ever liked growing up. Since Thomas was a turnover machine, what was his assist to turnover ratio vs Parker's? :lol That's how u measure if someone was a turnover machine. I know the answer, I'll let you calculate it or google it hahaha. Dude you have to be under the age of 25, because I had this same argument with a kid at the gym about why Dirk is better than Tim Duncan because Dirk hits 3's. Who even uses that argument other than someone in their 20s? I know I've never used it. If that's the case, then we can just take Magic's name off any pg list

[J_Paco]

Irrelevant information. By the way, Duncan was also an All-Star and MVP candidate, as well as a DPOY candidate and 1st team All-NBA, in '13.

Typical antiquated, vanilla fan. Doesn't understand advanced stats, therefore they must be wrong. You also clearly don't understand that counting stats are mostly about context (Parker, for example, scored more than Ginobili because he played more and had a higher usage rate), which is why they're largely irrelevant.

I like Ginobili and Parker equally, but Parker was never definitively better than a healthy Ginobili (before you predictably bring up '13, Ginobili had a lingering hamstring injury) for an extended stretch.

I'm tired of overly sensitive types acting as if I've ever said or inferred my opinion was the end all be all. Heaven forbid I have an opinion that differs from yours. It's funny how my opinion and advanced stats supposedly don't count, but yours and your antiquated ones do. That makes sense.

I give you the numbers you wanted to justify my opinion, but you claim they are "antiquated" and I'm a "vanilla fan" because they don't support your opinion.

I realize that traditional statistics are being devalued, while advanced metrics are helping to assess players actual skill level.

Basketball still isn't at a point where traditional statistics (and context) are irrelevant. They both have a place and only a basketball snob/elitist would believe otherwise.

There is always going to be context and reasoning behind Parker or Ginobili outperforming one another such as age, injury and role, yet none of those things come into play when discussing Parker's foibles.

No one is sensitive to your stuck up opinion, TD 21. Acting like an elitist is natural for some people, but this is all pointless bantering. None of us are talent evaluators, scouts or anything (and if you are then good on you) of the sort.

Whether you believe Parker was best, 2nd best, 5th best or the absolute worst player doesn't matter because the awards (Finals MVP, 6× All-Star, 4× All-NBA) and success (4 NBA championships) speaks for themselves.

[SASdynasty!]

How are you gonna base someone being a better 3 point shooter than someone in which a 3 point line wasn't even available during their high school and college careers. He hardly ever shot them haha. And as for Isiah being a turnover machine, u obviously didn't watch him in his prime and Parker was probably the first player you ever liked growing up. Since Thomas was a turnover machine, what was his assist to turnover ratio vs Parker's? :lol That's how u measure if someone was a turnover machine. I know the answer, I'll let you calculate it or google it hahaha. Dude you have to be under the age of 25, because I had this same argument with a kid at the gym about why Dirk is better than Tim Duncan because Dirk hits 3's. Who even uses that argument other than someone in their 20s? I know I've never used it. If that's the case, then we can just take Magic's name off any pg list
I wish I was under 25...definitely saw Isaiah play growing up. I didn't claim Isaiah had a 3 point line growing up. But he had one in the NBA and he wasn't good at making them at all. He also had significantly more turnovers per game than Parker. I didn't claim he had a worse assist to turnover ratio, just that he was a lot more turnover-prone. The reason I bring those things up along with his limited resume is that you made an outrageous and unsupportable claim, that Parker literally did nothing better than Isaiah. And obviously that's not true because Parker was a better outside shooter, better at protecting the ball, won more, and had much greater longevity. I could sit here and make excuses about all the ways Isaiah was better than Parker, but I'm not going to because he was better in a lot of ways.

[gambit1990]

so you, sasdynasty, and thegreatyacht would take parker over cp3. got it. you're in good company :lol
dmc thinking parker would rank as a better pg than chris paul :rollin
anyone thinking they were on same level :lol

[james evans]

Tell Duncan to make his move earlier if you want to see more Parker assists. In the early days he almost always guaranteed an assist forfeit because of how long he held the ball before he went into his move. He was the anti-Malone in that way, but it worked.
BULLFUCKINGSHIT!!! That rule was changed before Parker got to the NBA. An assist used to be a pass to a player on the way to the basket or an immediate score. That changed a while ago. That didn't just change recently. Nice try though. You have no shame in your bullshit to the point of it being hilarious:lol

[james evans]

:lmao Porker stans are now throwing DUNCAN under the bus to prop up their boy. This is a new low.
No differen't than Laker fans reducing Shaq to a role player to give Kobe some legendary status for the 2000-2002 titles

[will_spurs]

What's for sure is that when he retires (and also when he gets into the HoF) all you'll see will be articles about how he was underrated, and rightfully so. Writers will have to forget about their beloved statistics (or scratch their heads in disbelief) and just appreciate the player, the achievements, the beauty of the game.

[SASdynasty!]

dmc thinking parker would rank as a better pg than chris paul :rollin
anyone thinking they were on same level :lol
Same level? A FMVP that won 4 championships being on the same level as a statpadder who couldn't make the Conference Finals his whole career is actually pretty laughable, you're right.

[gambit1990]

Same level? A FMVP that won 4 championships being on the same level as a statpadder who couldn't make the Conference Finals his whole career is actually pretty laughable, you're right.
parker had 1 assist tonight.

cp3 had 20 in one game a few nights ago.

[SASdynasty!]

parker had 1 assist tonight.

cp3 had 20 in one game a few nights ago.
Awesome, Parker had a 55 point game. Paul has never even hit 45.

[Dex]

parker had 1 assist tonight.

cp3 had 20 in one game a few nights ago.

You should post this in more threads, because I don't think you have quite made your agenda clear yet. :rolleyes

[gambit1990]

Awesome, Parker had a 55 point game. Paul has never even hit 45.
tony doesn't rank higher than cp3 because he had a 55 point game against a team that finished 22-60.


You should post this in more threads, because I don't think you have quite made your agenda clear yet. :rolleyes
i don't have an agenda. i point to facts. if you have a problem, blame parker.

[james evans]

Awesome, Parker had a 55 point game. Paul has never even hit 45.
do u remember that game agaisnt the wolves and our roster at the time?

[skin27]

Sorry to disappoint the haters but TP is definitely Top 15.


4x Champ, Finals MVP, finished 3rd in MVP voting in 2013, on pace to finish Top 20 all-time in assists, etc. Career averages of 17ppg, 6 asts, and 1 stl on 50% shooting over 15 seasons. Easily Top 15. Y'all are crazy to think otherwise.
Lol Parker finished 6th in MVP voting in 2013!!http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2013.html

[gambit1990]

What's for sure is that when he retires (and also when he gets into the HoF) all you'll see will be articles about how he was underrated, and rightfully so. Writers will have to forget about their beloved statistics (or scratch their heads in disbelief) and just appreciate the player, the achievements, the beauty of the game.
can we forget about the future for a second and reminisce about how tony had 1 assist tonight? let's just appreciate the player, the beatuty of the game.

you must be glad that he's getting a $1 million dollar raise next year, huh?

[SASdynasty!]

tony doesn't rank higher than cp3 because he had a 55 point game against a team that finished 22-60.
Paul's played 22 win teams his whole career and hasn't hit 45 points in a game. That's great he had 20 assists against the 9-18 Pelicans.