Preseason Game Thread: Spurs vs Hawks: 10/8/16 @ 7:30 PM CT

[tmtcsc]

y'all are giving parker the benefit of the doubt for some reason.

it's a shame you guys don't remember how he played against memphis a few months ago. how quickly y'all forget...

Good Lord man, who is that girl in the gif?

[Raven]

I think it's pretty obvious Dedmon is facing massive odds to not be a complete bust signing.

[bklynspursfan]

I think Manu has his ego. It's not like he said he wants to feel important but doesn't know what that means. He knows what he means. It's disingenous to assume he didn't mean what he said. He could have said he wanted to be impactful, but he said he wanted to feel "important."

I do see his ego coming through with so many questions being asked by the press about Pop wanting to develop others. It's an uncomfortable question to begin with. But it does mean he's not going to defer to others and that is the truth.

Again didn't watch this game, but his use of the words wanting to feel important twice already is not a mistake.

I think ego is the wrong choice of words. He is a fierce competitior. If he had such an ego, he would've left years ago to a team where his stats would better reflect the player he was.

He took 10 shots, but without watching it's tough to say anything about it. I saw early on, Pau was working in the post and kicking out to shooters. We just don't know the flow of the game. It's so early and people are forming such strong oponions that PATFO don't even have yet lol

Manu will be who he is. If he feels he needs to score, he'll attack. If he needs to be more of a facilitator he will do that it doesn't mean Anderson or anyone else is less important or anything, but that's just the competitor Manu is, and he has Pop's trust to go out and do what's best for the team

[dabom]

Manu has an "ego" but went to the bench in his prime. :lol

[mbass]

I think ego is the wrong choice of words. He is a fierce competitior. If he had such an ego, he would've left years ago to a team where his stats would better reflect the player he was.

He took 10 shots, but without watching it's tough to say anything about it. I saw early on, Pau was working in the post and kicking out to shooters. We just don't know the flow of the game. It's so early and people are forming such strong oponions that PATFO don't even have yet lol

Manu will be who he is. If he feels he needs to score, he'll attack. If he needs to be more of a facilitator he will do that it doesn't mean Anderson or anyone else is less important or anything, but that's just the competitor Manu is, and he has Pop's trust to go out and do what's best for the team

[Mugen]

Looks like Mugen (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=15519) went to the game, tbh...

784970475378135041

It was a great experience tbh...

[BD24]

So I haven't gotten to watch either preseason game yet. Seems like Bertrans played well this game though. How slow does he look out there? Like Kyle Anderson slow?

[sasaint]

I think it's pretty obvious Dedmon is facing massive odds to not be a complete bust signing.

It is admittedly too early to call, but it is not looking good. Basically, the Spurs have one true, "willing" center who has all the earmarks of a bust and a slew of PF variants. To me that suggests the possibility of a rare Spurs trade.

[SAGirl]

I think ego is the wrong choice of words. He is a fierce competitior. If he had such an ego, he would've left years ago to a team where his stats would better reflect the player he was.

He took 10 shots, but without watching it's tough to say anything about it. I saw early on, Pau was working in the post and kicking out to shooters. We just don't know the flow of the game. It's so early and people are forming such strong oponions that PATFO don't even have yet lol

Manu will be who he is. If he feels he needs to score, he'll attack. If he needs to be more of a facilitator he will do that it doesn't mean Anderson or anyone else is less important or anything, but that's just the competitor Manu is, and he has Pop's trust to go out and do what's best for the team
35% usage. Bigger than Kawhi, bigger than LMA. Whatever, I think it's just one game but that's definitely too high.

[gambit1990]

Good Lord man, who is that girl in the gif?
this is her around a decade later:
https://media.giphy.com/media/LPh0G7RiYmf0Q/giphy.gif

i just made that gif :lol

her name is alizee :toast

[SAGirl]

I think it's pretty obvious Dedmon is facing massive odds to not be a complete bust signing.
Anthony the first to get in the game says it all. The concern is real.

[bklynspursfan]

35% usage. Bigger than Kawhi, bigger than LMA. Whatever, I think it's just one game but that's definitely too high.

It's pre season game #1 for most of the rotational guys. It's not too high, nothing for these guys matters, it's about getting in basketball shape again and starting to learn some tendencies. And again without watching the totality of the game, there's really no room to form any kind of valid criticism or judgment on how much a guy shot.

If you think be has a 35% usg cause of his ego though, I feel that's just wrong, and would respectfully and emphatically disagree. Manu is not that type of guy. Never has been, and I don't just cause Pop might player Anderson or Simmons more means his "ego" will make him play out of character. Playing with no ego is what made this our big 3 so special and unique for so many years

Like Pop once said "He's Manu Ginobili"

[SAGirl]

It is admittedly too early to call, but it is not looking good. Basically, the Spurs have one true, "willing" center who has all the earmarks of a bust and a slew of PF variants. To me that suggests the possibility of a rare Spurs trade.
I agree.

[gambit1990]

Manu has an "ego" but went to the bench in his prime. :lol
:lmao

if manu's ego is so big, then what does that have to say about someone who slept with their teammate's wife?

[SAGirl]

It's pre season game #1 for most of the rotational guys. It's not too high, nothing for these guys matters, it's about getting in basketball shape again and starting to learn some tendencies. And again without watching the totality of the game, there's really no room to form any kind of valid criticism or judgment on how much a guy shot.

If you think be has a 35% usg cause of his ego though, I feel that's just wrong, and would respectfully and emphatically disagree. Manu is not that type of guy. Never has been, and I don't just cause Pop might player Anderson or Simmons more means his "ego" will make him play out of character. Playing with no ego is what made this our big 3 so special and unique for so many years

Like Pop once said "He's Manu Ginobili"
Hopefully you are right. Again it's just one game and he's getting his game shape. But I have my concerns about it. He said he's looking to distribute more but isn't. It won't end well bc he was 16% usage in the playoffs and the other guys need to grow. Hopefully he doesn't go Kobe retirement tour. Though it doesn't matter if the team is a pretender. In that case let him shoot whatever.

But watch out for the examples being set for Dijon.

[gambit1990]

It is admittedly too early to call, but it is not looking good. Basically, the Spurs have one true, "willing" center who has all the earmarks of a bust and a slew of PF variants. To me that suggests the possibility of a rare Spurs trade.
in the summer i posted about a cause for concern in regards to our big man rotation.

[sasaint]

I agree.

More and more I lament that the Spurs did not sign RoLo and another good rotation player instead of LMA.

[sasaint]

in the summer i posted about a cause for concern in regards to our big man rotation.

In the summer I posted that "as Deadman goes, so go the Spurs." Depending on him to be the only "true" center relegates the Spurs to the pretenders' tier.

[TrainOfThought5]

I agree.

im willing to give up substantial resources to secure Okafor or Noel.

[gambit1990]

In the summer I posted that "as Deadman goes, so go the Spurs." Depending on him to be the only "true" center relegates the Spurs to the pretenders' tier.
yeah, i said that him panning out would be crucial.

people were trying to tell me lma and gasol would be good enough defensively...

[Raven]

It is admittedly too early to call, but it is not looking good. Basically, the Spurs have one true, "willing" center who has all the earmarks of a bust and a slew of PF variants. To me that suggests the possibility of a rare Spurs trade.

Gasol is really a center though, he always was.

[Raven]

im willing to give up substantial resources to secure Okafor or Noel.

why would you want Noel... Undersized skinny center with no skills and just athleticism with massive injury flags...

[SAGirl]

More and more I lament that the Spurs did not sign RoLo and another good rotation player instead of LMA.
I miss Boban. Heck I miss Baynes. Spurs needed to bring Milutinov in, not Livio. Sorry Chinook. They brought Livio bc he was in the queue sooner, but they needed a center and still do.

The bench is worse than last season. Dedmon is a concern. I still have concerns with Lee in a two big line-up. I think he's playing bc Dedmon has been a big disappointment and they need Lee to rebound for him and make plays in the paint. They also can't go with a full perimeter lineup bc Simmons is busting too (compared to Pop's expectations). The answer might be Bertans but Popsaid he doesn't look at the rookies this early bc he doesn't want to form an opinion this early (and though he didn't say it, rooks will make mistakes) so he prefers to bring them in slower.

Lee vs Bertans doesn't matter if Dedmon is a total bust.

[sasaint]

im willing to give up substantial resources to secure Okafor or Noel.

Frankly, I don't really want either player - especially not at the expense of "substantial resources." Noel has the defense, Okafor the offense. Neither seems likely to develop into a Very Good/Great all-around NBA player. If I had to choose one, I'd take Noel - but not at a premium.

[sasaint]

I miss Boban. Heck I miss Baynes. Spurs needed to bring Milutinov in, not Livio. Sorry Chinook. They brought Livio bc he was in the queue sooner, but they needed a center and still do.

The bench is worse than last season. Dedmon is a concern. I still have concerns with Lee in a two big line-up. I think he's playing bc Dedmon has been a big disappointment and they need Lee to rebound for him and make plays in the paint. They also can't go with a full perimeter lineup bc Simmons is busting too (compared to Pop's expectations). The answer might be Bertans but Popsaid he doesn't look at the rookies this early bc he doesn't want to form an opinion this early (and though he didn't say it, rooks will make mistakes) so he prefers to bring them in slower.

Lee vs Bertans doesn't matter if Dedmon is a total bust.

BINGO! A lot of people on this board are all on board trading away too much for Okafor or Noel. Just because Deadman is a bust doesn't mean the team would benefit from trading away too much for one of those guys.

P.S. I miss Baynes more than Boban, but I do wish we fans would have had the luxury of seeing Boban develop another season (at least) in SA.

[gambit1990]

does presti wanna do us a favor? :lol

will take adams for parker. open to negotiate.

[bklynspursfan]

Hopefully you are right. Again it's just one game and he's getting his game shape. But I have my concerns about it. He said he's looking to distribute more but isn't. It won't end well bc he was 16% usage in the playoffs and the other guys need to grow. Hopefully he doesn't go Kobe retirement tour. Though it doesn't matter if the team is a pretender. In that case let him shoot whatever.

But watch out for the examples being set for Dijon.

The fact that you have those concerns about Manu is a slight to his character. He's been the epitome of selflessness and a team guy. The younger guys will have their opportunity regardless of how Manu plays. It's up to them to take advantage of their opportunities

[sasaint]

does presti wanna do us a favor? :lol

will take adams for parker. open to negotiate.

I have played with the trade machine since the end of last season, coming up with some beneficial trades that didn't seem ridiculously one-sided to me. But they all involved Tony. Whether you like him or not, the truth is he is destined to be a Spur as long as Pop is.

[Chinook]

I miss Boban. Heck I miss Baynes. Spurs needed to bring Milutinov in, not Livio. Sorry Chinook. They brought Livio bc he was in the queue sooner, but they needed a center and still do.

The bench is worse than last season. Dedmon is a concern. I still have concerns with Lee in a two big line-up. I think he's playing bc Dedmon has been a big disappointment and they need Lee to rebound for him and make plays in the paint. They also can't go with a full perimeter lineup bc Simmons is busting too (compared to Pop's expectations). The answer might be Bertans but Popsaid he doesn't look at the rookies this early bc he doesn't want to form an opinion this early (and though he didn't say it, rooks will make mistakes) so he prefers to bring them in slower.

Lee vs Bertans doesn't matter if Dedmon is a total bust.

They brought Livio in because as a first-rounder he had a right to accept his tender. Milutinov is under contract overseas and couldn't force the Spurs' hands. They could've afforded both. Anyway, depending on a rookie to be that guy is asking for trouble anyway. Not every first-year big is Splitter. What they actually need to do is see if Dedmon or Lee can actually be a center for them and make a move if neither can. There will be chances.

[spursistan]

It is early but this Dedmon dude has a Jeff Ayers 2.0 air to him--somebody who got recommended to Pop by not a very bright basketball person..

[Chinook]

The fact that you have those concerns about Manu is a slight to his character. He's been the epitome of selflessness and a team guy. The younger guys will have their opportunity regardless of how Manu plays. It's up to them to take advantage of their opportunities

I don't think it's fair to put Manu above reproach on this. Him being on the bench allowed him to run the show. Had he started, he would have had to have changed to match Tim and Tony. He deserves credit for staying with the team and having perspective on what being a sixth man can mean. But as far as touches go, he hasn't had to give up nearly as much as Tim or Tony has in recent years.

[gambit1990]

What they actually need to do is see if Dedmon or Lee can actually be a center for them and make a move if neither can.
:lol

[Chinook]

:lol

I'm assuming you'll bump this a million times, even when it's inappropriate?

Lee played center for the Mavs last season and played his best ball in years.

[SAGirl]

The fact that you have those concerns about Manu is a slight to his character. He's been the epitome of selflessness and a team guy. The younger guys will have their opportunity regardless of how Manu plays. It's up to them to take advantage of their opportunities
He said what he said. He wants to feel important and is taking 35% of shots. If that was Tony it would be a headline here. I am entitled to my opinion. I already chalked it up to him getting his rhythm back and all that but it's a concern to me and I am entitled to my opinion. I get it that he's a fan favorite but Tim wasn't getting his rhythm back consuming 35% of the team's possessions at 39 then talking about still wanting to be important. Just saying.

[sasaint]

Gasol is really a center though, he always was.

So is LMA - he just doesn't want to play like it. :lol Pau just isn't the hard-nosed type center that I would like. Perhaps he and LMA will be sufficient - because Deadman is likely to make Spurs fans want Ayres back. :lol

[gambit1990]

I'm assuming you'll bump this a million times, even when it's inappropriate?

Lee played center for the Mavs last season and played his best ball in years.
do you wanna write a short essay about how deep their playoff run was last year?

[bklynspursfan]

I don't think it's fair to put Manu above reproach on this. Him being on the bench allowed him to run the show. Had he started, he would have had to have changed to match Tim and Tony. He deserves credit for staying with the team and having perspective on what being a sixth man can mean. But as far as touches go, he hasn't had to give up nearly as much as Tim or Tony has in recent years.

While all true, when has he ever shown or displayed an attitude that's "me first"? He's been benched for poor play, he's been a great mentor and leader. So now cause we have young players he's automatically supposed to just defer to them? It's ridiculous that people are so up in arms over a pre season game stat. Never fails

[Raven]

So is LMA - he just doesn't want to play like it. :lol Pau just isn't the hard-nosed type center that I would like. Perhaps he and LMA will be sufficient - because Deadman is likely to make Spurs fans want Ayres back. :lol

No LMA has always been a pf.

[sasaint]

I'm assuming you'll bump this a million times, even when it's inappropriate?

Lee played center for the Mavs last season and played his best ball in years.

By what measure? Weren't the Mavs a net minus with Lee on the floor?

[Chinook]

do you wanna write a short essay about how deep their playoff run was last year?

Lamest quip you've posted. And that's saying a lot. That emoticon had more substance.

[Chinook]

By what measure? Weren't the Mavs a net minus with Lee on the floor?

Well by individual net rating, Lee was plus-23. That's absurdly good.

[gambit1990]

Lamest quip you've posted. And that's saying a lot. That emoticon had more substance.
i'm not trying to sound witty you twat.

chinook always trying to divert :lol

[Chinook]

While all true, when has he ever shown or displayed an attitude that's "me first"? He's been benched for poor play, he's been a great mentor and leader. So now cause we have young players he's automatically supposed to just defer to them? It's ridiculous that people are so up in arms over a pre season game stat. Never fails

It's more that he likes to be the one facilitating. If Anderson and Simmons were like Korver and Ariza, then that would be great. But they are both guys who need the ball, so Manu "making plays for them" isn't likely to get the best out of them -- especially Anderson, as he's not a slasher and will want to post-up and face-up for most his points.

[Chinook]

i'm not trying to sound witty you twat.

chinook always trying to divert :lol

Well, you are showing us there's always a way for you to get shittier. I'll give you that.

[gambit1990]

It's more that he likes to be the one facilitating. If Anderson and Simmons were like Korver and Ariza, then that would be great. But they are both guys who need the ball, so Manu "making plays for them" isn't likely to get the best out of them -- especially Anderson, as he's not a slasher and will want to post-up and face-up for most his points.
maybe because he's better at that than anyone else off the bench dumbass :lol

[bklynspursfan]

He said what he said. He wants to feel important and is taking 35% of shots. If that was Tony it would be a headline here. I am entitled to my opinion. I already chalked it up to him getting his rhythm back and all that but it's a concern to me and I am entitled to my opinion. I get it that he's a fan favorite but Tim wasn't getting his rhythm back consuming 35% of the team's possessions at 39 then talking about still wanting to be important. Just saying.

I'm just sayin, 1, it's preseason... these stats are as meaningless as summer league stats. 2, Manu has never been a selfish me first guy. And I know your guy is sort of in competition with him on that 2nd unit, but again Manu has never been a selfish guy. Him wanting to be important to the team (or as I think he meant, helpful/impactful) is a good thing. Him losing his fire cause we have some young prospects would not be good. 3, again.. its pre season.

You are entitled to your opinion of course,. History however disagrees with what you're trying to push here. If you go back and look at other preseason stats and leaders from previous seasons, you'll see what even having this theory from 1 game just screams of over-reacting. Especially without seeing the game

[Chinook]

maybe because he's better at that than anyone else off the bench dumbass :lol

You're almost there. Now you just have to read more than one sentence.

[gambit1990]

Well, you are showing us there's always a way for you to get shittier. I'll give you that.
your possible solution for the spurs is the back up center for a 6th seed.

you're wrong way more often than not. really glad you're not the gm.

[bklynspursfan]

It's more that he likes to be the one facilitating. If Anderson and Simmons were like Korver and Ariza, then that would be great. But they are both guys who need the ball, so Manu "making plays for them" isn't likely to get the best out of them -- especially Anderson, as he's not a slasher and will want to post-up and face-up for most his points.

I'm sure Anderson will get his post opportunities, and Simmons with his athleticism should be more of a slasher. Manu can hit the 3, so if either of those guys handle the ball, Manu is a capable catch and shoot guy.

They'll get their chances. Manu will have the ball sometimes sure, but I know they'll have chances, especially Anderson.

Regardless. I feel like Iverson "we talkin bout practice" cause this overreacting is coming from 1 preseason game lol. It's crazy

[SAGirl]

They brought Livio in because as a first-rounder he had a right to accept his tender. Milutinov is under contract overseas and couldn't force the Spurs' hands. They could've afforded both. Anyway, depending on a rookie to be that guy is asking for trouble anyway. Not every first-year big is Splitter. What they actually need to do is see if Dedmon or Lee can actually be a center for them and make a move if neither can. There will be chances.
We never saw Milutinov so we are at a disadvantage evaluating, but it's possible he wasn't ready as well, so if they had to bring one or the other bringing the guy they had ready made commitments to bring this season made sense. It's quite the real likelihood Milutinov was too raw to help as well. They did bring him in for workouts and saw him.

[sasaint]

No LMA has always been a pf.

I know that is the position he has mostly played (hence, the :lol). (However he did play significant minutes at C last season.) But sarcasm aside, my point is really about the fact that Pau (and, really LMA) is a hybrid - a point center. Unless the Spurs rarely play LMA and Pau together (which Pop won't do), then the team's only "true" center is a bust. That state of affairs will not take the team very far. Lee is tweener - a short big with no midrange game. If LMA, Pau and Lee are the Spurs' top 3 "bigs" regardless of the Program listing of position, then the team is in trouble.

[gambit1990]

Well, you are showing us there's always a way for you to get shittier. I'll give you that.

1) The Report:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1465870

(Basically a recap of chatter from front-office guys during the summer league. Posting the entire Spurs section, but the last point is the most important.)



2) Credibility

Keith Smith is a basketball writer who is a Celtics mod on RealGM (Smitth731). He's basically all of the things you guys like about me and none of the things you guys don't like about me. He's the author of what is easily the most comprehensive spreadsheet out there for NBA salaries:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T2Eg_zvqNqQD_5TpE4Ns6xhElatXdLpYG1roZtRLyvE/edit#gid=1562502222 Like Mark Deeks, he's not the quickest with the news, but he's the most accurate at least when it comes to salaries.

He freely admits he's not a reporter, and if you know of him at all, it's possible that you do because he sort of "broke" a Griffin-to-Boston trade that hasn't happened yet. So right now, he's not on the tier right Woj in terms of dropping bombs. Still, this is Spurstalk, not a court of law.

3) Veracity

I believe Smith did hear the chatter. He has a good track record and does too much other good work for it to make sense for him to damage his credibility about a team/fanbase he probably don't care much about at all. But that's only part of the equation. Who was his source? The big possibility would be RC, since he was there and easily available and would obviously know what the team was thinking. But there were other Spurs' people there, including some FO guys probably and definitely the SL coaching staff. The latter group doesn't really seem to have much credibility, except for maybe Becky. Then there could be their players, but I consider that completely unlikely. Regardless of who said it, I have a hard time believing it. They didn't even know they were going to get Dedmon (although by the time whoever talked to Smith, they did, obviously), I don't think they'd be crazy enough to plan on starting Willie Reed, and he was the runner up.

4) Implications

Like OMG. It's strange to think Pau would be okay with this. But if it were something the Spurs would say during the SL, then you'd have to think they talked to him about it prior to signing him. Whether it works out that Pau comes off the bench or not, it sure does suggest that he's not obsessed with starting. But it does make sense. Off the bench, the Spurs are looking to play one-in-four-out, so he'd probably get a sh'ton of low-post touches he wouldn't necessarily be able to have with the starters. I'd probably be hurt defensively, however, playing without at least one of Green or Kawhi a lot of the time.

For the bench, it would change my projection of their offense. I'd actually expect it to be closer to how the starters roll, with Anderson playing the Kawhi role on offense and Pau playing the LMA role. I don't know how much I would like that. Manu would just sort of be there, like Parker is with the starters. Mills should be fine. And Bertans/Simmons would probably get touches. But I don't think there's a consistent plan of attack with that unit. Just seems like a lot of iso's and jump-shooting. Should help stave off worry about the bench not having talent or go-to offense, though.

For the starters, it sort of allows them to keep their offense from last year. Dedmon doesn't have Tim's upside offensively, but if he can board and finish, he should be able to be more effective than Tim was at the end. Parker gets another PnR partner, which might help him drive more easily. Green gets a dump-off man on his ill-fated drives. For the folks wanting that big roll-man/finisher, you'd be getting your wish. Defensively, the idea of funneling to Dedmon seems interesting. Dude's a talented shot-blocker, and you'd hope Danny and Kawhi would put him in easy-help positions. He can show on the PnR and recover, so that's an improvement over Duncan. But he's also a foul-machine, at least for a potential starter. Tim's best defensive attribute was that he contested so well without fouling. Would be an adjustment.

For Dedmon, I think this would hurt him. The SL won't have the spacing the bench was projected to. I think he's getting third-big minutes no matter where he is in the rotation, so instead of being a pillar of offensive ball-movement as he would be off the bench, he would be the fifth option that'd really only get touches if the third option can't find a way to score. He'd have to live as a garbage man, which is cool, but not as glamorous. Could still end up closing out games if he plays his role well enough, though.

:lmao

[Chinook]

your possible solution for the spurs is the back up center for a 6th seed.

you're wrong way more often than not. really glad you're not the gm.

You do realize that Dallas didn't have him the whole year, right?

[Chinook]

:lmao

Yep, bumping things when they don't make sense. You're nothing if not predictable and trite.

[gambit1990]

You do realize that Dallas didn't have him the whole year, right?
so if the mavs had him the whole year... then they wouldn't have lost against okc in the 1st round? :lol

[sasaint]

It's more that he likes to be the one facilitating. If Anderson and Simmons were like Korver and Ariza, then that would be great. But they are both guys who need the ball, so Manu "making plays for them" isn't likely to get the best out of them -- especially Anderson, as he's not a slasher and will want to post-up and face-up for most his points.

I can't offer any evidence other than my own eye test, however, I thought Manu was transitioning to more of a spot-up 3-point shooter - especially late last RS. I think that will become his role more and more - and I hope so, for the reasons you cite.

[Chinook]

I'm sure Anderson will get his post opportunities, and Simmons with his athleticism should be more of a slasher. Manu can hit the 3, so if either of those guys handle the ball, Manu is a capable catch and shoot guy.

They'll get their chances. Manu will have the ball sometimes sure, but I know they'll have chances, especially Anderson.

Regardless. I feel like Iverson "we talkin bout practice" cause this overreacting is coming from 1 preseason game lol. It's crazy

I don't disagree with you. Manu's said he understand they need room to grow, and I assume that means they need the ball. But a Manu who's had to share the second unit night in and night out isn't something we've seen. Last game had no bearing on things, of course. But it will be something to look at all season.

[tmtcsc]

this is her around a decade later:
https://media.giphy.com/media/LPh0G7RiYmf0Q/giphy.gif

i just made that gif :lol

her name is alizee :toast

:toast Very nice.

[bklynspursfan]

I can't offer any evidence other than my own eye test, however, I thought Manu was transitioning to more of a spot-up 3-point shooter - especially late last RS. I think that will become his role more and more - and I hope so, for the reasons you cite.

Yea , he def did. But if things are stagnant or nothings happening, the competitor he is will definitely try and make something happen. It's who he is... but he def did improve his spot up shooting

[bklynspursfan]

I don't disagree with you. Manu's said he understand they need room to grow, and I assume that means they need the ball. But a Manu who's had to share the second unit night in and night out isn't something we've seen. Last game had no bearing on things, of course. But it will be something to look at all season.

Agreed

[gambit1990]

Yep, bumping things when they don't make sense. You're nothing if not predictable and trite.
the bump is relatable because it has to do with our big man rotation.

[Chinook]

I can't offer any evidence other than my own eye test, however, I thought Manu was transitioning to more of a spot-up 3-point shooter - especially late last RS. I think that will become his role more and more - and I hope so, for the reasons you cite.

I doubt Anderson or Simmons or Murray will be better PnR and PnP facilitators this year. So I think Manu will have room to work. The question is going to be ratio and balance. Well, the real question is whether Anderson or Simmons can be good enough to even warrant this discussion. But assuming that happens, it won't be simple.

[Chinook]

so if the mavs had him the whole year... then they wouldn't have lost against okc in the 1st round? :lol

:rolleyes Who was Dallas' starting center?

[Chinook]

the bump is relatable because it has to do with our big man rotation.

Yeah, bumping me saying "Hey, there's this report out saying the Spurs want to start Dedmon but I'm skeptical" is topical? And you're the king of bumping things when you think they make sense in the short term while ignoring the long term. Dedmon will have good games (hopefully a lot), but I'm not going to be acting like an idiot bumping shit whenever he does.

[gambit1990]

:rolleyes Who was Dallas' starting center?

chinook always trying to divert :lol
try answering the question bitch.

[Chinook]

We never saw Milutinov so we are at a disadvantage evaluating, but it's possible he wasn't ready as well, so if they had to bring one or the other bringing the guy they had ready made commitments to bring this season made sense. It's quite the real likelihood Milutinov was too raw to help as well. They did bring him in for workouts and saw him.

Remember that he got dominated by Papagiannis over in Greece. Georgios is someone I like quite a bit, but that's the level Milutinov would have be at for me to say he's a rotational center.

[Chinook]

try answering the question bitch.

Your dumb ass knows it's backed into a corner, so now it's trying shitty intimidation tactics. Anyway, they might not have been the sixth seed had they had Lee all year. But since you are avoiding the question, Zaza was the starter. As we all know, he never got a starting gig again after OKC beat Dallas.

[sasaint]

I doubt Anderson or Simmons or Murray will be better PnR and PnP facilitators this year. So I think Manu will have room to work. The question is going to be ratio and balance. Well, the real question is whether Anderson or Simmons can be good enough to even warrant this discussion. But assuming that happens, it won't be simple.

Indeed, it is complicated. The Spurs' roster is mostly comprised of a bunch of hybrid/tweener/"uniquely talented" players (depending on whether you are an optimist or a pessimist). Anderson is not a PnP or PnR player - but he does need the ball. Simmons has failed to develop his handles to be reliable in that role, and Murray is too raw... Perhaps the bench will not showcase PnR/PnP...

[gambit1990]

your possible solution for the spurs is the back up center for a 6th seed.

You do realize that Dallas didn't have him the whole year, right?

so if the mavs had him the whole year... then they wouldn't have lost against okc in the 1st round? :lol

Your dumb ass knows it's backed into a corner, so now it's trying shitty intimidation tactics. Anyway, they might not have been the sixth seed had they had Lee all year. But since you are avoiding the question, Zaza was the starter. As we all know, he never got a starting gig again after OKC beat Dallas.
so if the mavs had lee all year and were the 5th seed then they wouldn't have lost in the 1st round against the clippers?

i avoided your question because you avoided mine first :lol how stupid are you?

and no, i'm not trying "intimidation tactics" :lol
the fact that you feel that way shows how much of a pussy you are though tbh.

i'm "backed into a corner"? :lmao yeah, i am when i'm surrounded by your shitty takes.

[SAGirl]

It's more that he likes to be the one facilitating. If Anderson and Simmons were like Korver and Ariza, then that would be great. But they are both guys who need the ball, so Manu "making plays for them" isn't likely to get the best out of them -- especially Anderson, as he's not a slasher and will want to post-up and face-up for most his points.
What puzzles me is that they were RC picks, specially Simmons. You could make the argument--bc they stated it publicly in that particular 2014 draft-- that they couldn't pass up on Anderson bc they evaluated him to be within the top 20 in that class, regardless of what he would turn into the following years. He wasn't brought up for a need, he was just an available talent and that's fine, but JSimms they definitely brought in to fill some perceived need. I have my theories about it but don't want to get into it bc it's a tangent.

Point is though, these two were not added to the team to complement Manu like others were, like Neal, like Marco. So that means he's got to adapt to their games too.

Simmons has been busting hard so it's difficult to make a case for him but he doesn't space the floor for others and if he doesn't shoot well, how is he going to fit in with a ball dominant SG and two non shooting bigs? He doesn't. He can make the occasional 3 pt shot but shooting is not his strength, and he's most useful with the ball and playing up tempo, which playing with two true bigs isn't. Him playing so poorly, specially in the Suns game where he had opportunities to make plays with the ball in the PnR makes it very difficult in fact to make a case for him at this point. If he doesn't turn it around I don't know how he can help the team. Despite my criticism of him, it's kind of sad and not good for the team that he's not panning out. They have invested in him, Pop has praised him and nurtured him and when they brought him in it was bc he filled some perceived need, so him looking unplayable is a loss right now. Like Pop said, the team loses depth. I don't have the answers. So long as he's in the team I will hope jSimms turns it around but he's frustrating me at times.

For Anderson, I can't say I am thrilled to see him in the perimeter as a 2/3 either but since Simmons is not panning out that's what happens. I hope his shot at least comes through bc he will need it. I think to use him as a strict spot up shooter is a waste, which is what happens playing next to a high usage SG and two paint clogging bigs but it is what it is. I think they would be better playing a stretch 4 shooter which Bertans is but Pop is going to try to figure out the other two first b4 Bertans gets a shot I am guessing.

[Chinook]

so if the mavs had lee all year and were the 5th seed then they wouldn't have lost in the 1st round against the clippers?

They might've. That's just a stupid thing to wonder about, though. Lee was injured during the playoffs, so this was never really a good line of attack by you.


i avoided your question because you avoided mine first :lol how stupid are you?

Your question was idiotic. Your whole position is idiotic. Being in the top-40 percent in your conference isn't bad. Look at Gasol. His team didn't even make the playoffs. Were you down on Kawhi because he was the best player on a sixth-seed in 2015? Your takes are like skin-thin, man.


and no, i'm not trying "intimidation tactics" :lol
the fact that you feel that way shows how much of a pussy you are though tbh.

:lol no one's scared of you. It's just silly that you tried to act like a tough guy.


i'm "backed into a corner"? :lmao yeah, i am when i'm surrounded by your shitty takes.

Sorry that we can't all think that players who were key for playoff teams suck because their team lost in the first round. Poor Zaza is just waiting for another chance after being so embarrassed.

[TrainOfThought5]

Frankly, I don't really want either player - especially not at the expense of "substantial resources." Noel has the defense, Okafor the offense. Neither seems likely to develop into a Very Good/Great all-around NBA player. If I had to choose one, I'd take Noel - but not at a premium.

We wont get the #1 overall pick anytime soon. Noel and Okafor are two halves of a coin BUT we have Timmy and Chip on payroll. Lets get Noel and see if we cant get him to overachieve on a championship caliber squad.

[SAGirl]

Indeed, it is complicated. The Spurs' roster is mostly comprised of a bunch of hybrid/tweener/"uniquely talented" players (depending on whether you are an optimist or a pessimist). Anderson is not a PnP or PnR player - but he does need the ball. Simmons has failed to develop his handles to be reliable in that role, and Murray is too raw... Perhaps the bench will not showcase PnR/PnP...
Murray is talented. In fact he reminds me a whole lot of Manu except he can't finish in the paint like Manu could so he shouldn't be forcing so many bad shots. He has a low percentage shooting in the paint, s It's not like he can go Tony and Manu and consume all these possessions just bc he can get into the thick of things. The current state of f his game as far as finishing requires that he plays smarter. He was benched for taking bad shots against the Suns but he's very talented and he can pass to the big on the PnR better than JSimms which together with his youth gives me hope for him. He's just got to get better at his own game and will require tough coaching.

[SAGirl]

Indeed, it is complicated. The Spurs' roster is mostly comprised of a bunch of hybrid/tweener/"uniquely talented" players (depending on whether you are an optimist or a pessimist). Anderson is not a PnP or PnR player - but he does need the ball. Simmons has failed to develop his handles to be reliable in that role, and Murray is too raw... Perhaps the bench will not showcase PnR/PnP...
It's a mess with 2 bigs who can't shoot regardless... perhaps that explains Manu taking so many shots more than anything else.

[gambit1990]

It's just silly that you tried to act like a tough guy.
i'm talking basketball :lmao

if you get the impression that i come off as tough, then good. i'm not acting.

you come off like a bitch.

[Chinook]

i'm talking basketball :lmao

if you get the impression that i come off as tough, then good. i'm not acting.

you come off like a bitch.

No, I get the impression that you're a loser try-hard. There's a difference.

[BillMc]

Didn't see the game. How comfortable did Pau look out there, especially on defense? With all this talk about the bench it'd be nice to see our new starter fit in quickly.

[SAGirl]

I'm just sayin, 1, it's preseason... these stats are as meaningless as summer league stats. 2, Manu has never been a selfish me first guy. And I know your guy is sort of in competition with him on that 2nd unit, but again Manu has never been a selfish guy. Him wanting to be important to the team (or as I think he meant, helpful/impactful) is a good thing. Him losing his fire cause we have some young prospects would not be good. 3, again.. its pre season.

You are entitled to your opinion of course,. History however disagrees with what you're trying to push here. If you go back and look at other preseason stats and leaders from previous seasons, you'll see what even having this theory from 1 game just screams of over-reacting. Especially without seeing the game
As you have seen in other comments I have made here my concern is about them as a whole. They won't survive with flashback Manu taking 35% of the possessions while he's playing (making 40% of those shots isn't exactly flashback though). If anyone else did that it would be an issue. They have to find some balance and right now they don't have it.

[SAGirl]

Didn't see the game. How comfortable did Pau look out there, especially on defense? With all this talk about the bench it'd be nice to see our new starter fit in quickly.
I don't think anyone saw it, unless they were at the game is my guess. It wasn't shown anywhere, no streams.

[sasaint]

Murray is talented. In fact he reminds me a whole lot of Manu except he can't finish in the paint like Manu could so he shouldn't be forcing so many bad shots. He has a low percentage shooting in the paint, s It's not like he can go Tony and Manu and consume all these possessions just bc he can get into the thick of things. The current state of f his game as far as finishing requires that he plays smarter. He was benched for taking bad shots against the Suns but he's very talented and he can pass to the big on the PnR better than JSimms which together with his youth gives me hope for him. He's just got to get better at his own game and will require tough coaching.

The Spurs have really "invested" very little in Simmons. I think he is gone - in favor of any number of young guys. I am just praying that Pop fast tracks Murray (as he did Tony - even with the "tough love"), for a lot of reasons. At any rate I think Pop will scrap the Simmons experiment in favor of the Lapro experiment or the Garino experiment or even the Forbes experiment. What Pop will do with the Deadman experiment is anybody's guess.

[gambit1990]

No, I get the impression that you're a loser try-hard. There's a difference.
wrong again, nothing new.

[sasaint]

It's a mess with 2 bigs who can't shoot regardless... perhaps that explains Manu taking so many shots more than anything else.

On defense opponents will just be able to smother our perimeter guys and ignore the PnP. With the particular mix of the Spurs' potential second unit, I really fear the offense will struggle.

[BillMc]

On defense opponents will just be able to smother our perimeter guys and ignore the PnP. With the particular mix of the Spurs' potential second unit, I really fear the offense will struggle.

At one time couldn't Lee shoot well? Was that a long time ago or am I imagining things?

[c whata11]

Went to the game and although it's harder for me to gauge things in-person rather than watching on TV, I figured I'd at least post my game thoughts.

Coaching
Just an opinion, but Ime seems like the appropriate choice over the other coaches. He gives off a confidence that you don't see with Borrego.

Starters
It's obvious that cohesiveness will increase throughout the season, but they looked better out of the half than at tip-off. LMA, Kawhi, and Parker carried the starters offensively. I felt bad for Pau because he wasn't really needed (at least this game); hopefully that doesn't affect his attitude. There was a concerted effort to evenly distribute possessions, with the posting up of Pau/LMA/Kawhi.

Bench
Looks as if Patty and Manu will start checking in at the same time off the bench. Spurs rolled with the unit most expected: Patty, Manu, Anderson, Lee, Dedmon. Won't really comment on Patty and Manu as they're known commodities. I don't have an opinion on Lee, other than at points during the game him and Humphries were going at each other - which I found entertaining. Dedmon, on the other hand, was hard to find positives for. His hands were horrible. Hopefully that was just this one game, but his hands were the take-away for me. Patty checked back in ~2 minutes left in the half to play with the starters, which was surprising. But then Ime played the rest of the bench as well to close the half.

New Crew
Laprovitolla seemed a bit overwhelmed and turned it over off a bad pass the minute he checked in. Murray was pretty much himself. He checks in with his 'swagger' and confidence but his weaknesses are obvious. Guy has tunnel vision and rarely made the pass; he can get to the rim but isn't strong enough to finish. He definitely has Jamal Crawford vibes. I have no evidence to support my opinion, but I'm tempted to say Joel Anthony looked better than Dedmon. Bertans was the guy I was most excited to see; he delivered and was the best out of the new Spurs. He seems extremely confident, even without showing it. His size is clear once you see him standing at the free throw line. He came in and drained shots which he has to do (unlike Forbes tonight) and ran the floor for his put back slam.

[sasaint]

At one time couldn't Lee shoot well? Was that a long time ago or am I imagining things?

Without researching the question, I think you are about halfway right. Seems like he had a fair "jumper" (:lol) from the elbow when he was with the Knicks.

[BillMc]

Went to the game and although it's harder for me to gauge things in-person rather than watching on TV, I figured I'd at least post my game thoughts.

Coaching
Just an opinion, but Ime seems like the appropriate choice over the other coaches. He gives off a confidence that you don't see with Borrego.

Starters
It's obvious that cohesiveness will increase throughout the season, but they looked better out of the half than at tip-off. LMA, Kawhi, and Parker carried the starters offensively. I felt bad for Pau because he wasn't really needed (at least this game); hopefully that doesn't affect his attitude. There was a concerted effort to evenly distribute possessions, with the posting up of Pau/LMA/Kawhi.

Bench
Looks as if Patty and Manu will start checking in at the same time off the bench. Spurs rolled with the unit most expected: Patty, Manu, Anderson, Lee, Dedmon. Won't really comment on Patty and Manu as they're known commodities. I don't have an opinion on Lee, other than at points during the game him and Humphries were going at each other - which I found entertaining. Dedmon, on the other hand, was hard to find positives for. His hands were horrible. Hopefully that was just this one game, but his hands were the take-away for me. Patty checked back in ~2 minutes left in the half to play with the starters, which was surprising. But then Ime played the rest of the bench as well to close the half.

New Crew
Laprovitolla seemed a bit overwhelmed and turned it over off a bad pass the minute he checked in. Murray was pretty much himself. He checks in with his 'swagger' and confidence but his weaknesses are obvious. Guy has tunnel vision and rarely made the pass; he can get to the rim but isn't strong enough to finish. He definitely has Jamal Crawford vibes. I have no evidence to support my opinion, but I'm tempted to say Joel Anthony looked better than Dedmon. Bertans was the guy I was most excited to see; he delivered and was the best out of the new Spurs. He seems extremely confident, even without showing it. His size is clear once you see him standing at the free throw line. He came in and drained shots which he has to do (unlike Forbes tonight) and ran the floor for his put back slam.

Thanks for the assessment man. Much appreciated. :bobo

[ElNono]

I think ego is the wrong choice of words. He is a fierce competitior. If he had such an ego, he would've left years ago to a team where his stats would better reflect the player he was.

He took 10 shots, but without watching it's tough to say anything about it. I saw early on, Pau was working in the post and kicking out to shooters. We just don't know the flow of the game. It's so early and people are forming such strong oponions that PATFO don't even have yet lol

Manu will be who he is. If he feels he needs to score, he'll attack. If he needs to be more of a facilitator he will do that it doesn't mean Anderson or anyone else is less important or anything, but that's just the competitor Manu is, and he has Pop's trust to go out and do what's best for the team

You gotta add that if he feels "important" it's because that's the message PATFO sent to him. There's no doubt they paid "whatever it took" to keep him for, at least, one more season. The only conclusion you can draw from that is that PATFO feels he's that important to the team.

I don't really get the narratives about Manu's ego. This guy has probably sacrificed the most out of the big 3 in that department throughout his career.

[BillMc]

Without researching the question, I think you are about halfway right. Seems like he had a fair "jumper" (:lol) from the elbow when he was with the Knicks.

:toast Yeah, I knew there was something. Still, LMA he ain't.

[sasaint]

Went to the game and although it's harder for me to gauge things in-person rather than watching on TV, I figured I'd at least post my game thoughts.

Coaching
Just an opinion, but Ime seems like the appropriate choice over the other coaches. He gives off a confidence that you don't see with Borrego.

Starters
It's obvious that cohesiveness will increase throughout the season, but they looked better out of the half than at tip-off. LMA, Kawhi, and Parker carried the starters offensively. I felt bad for Pau because he wasn't really needed (at least this game); hopefully that doesn't affect his attitude. There was a concerted effort to evenly distribute possessions, with the posting up of Pau/LMA/Kawhi.

Bench
Looks as if Patty and Manu will start checking in at the same time off the bench. Spurs rolled with the unit most expected: Patty, Manu, Anderson, Lee, Dedmon. Won't really comment on Patty and Manu as they're known commodities. I don't have an opinion on Lee, other than at points during the game him and Humphries were going at each other - which I found entertaining. Dedmon, on the other hand, was hard to find positives for. His hands were horrible. Hopefully that was just this one game, but his hands were the take-away for me. Patty checked back in ~2 minutes left in the half to play with the starters, which was surprising. But then Ime played the rest of the bench as well to close the half.

New Crew
Laprovitolla seemed a bit overwhelmed and turned it over off a bad pass the minute he checked in. Murray was pretty much himself. He checks in with his 'swagger' and confidence but his weaknesses are obvious. Guy has tunnel vision and rarely made the pass; he can get to the rim but isn't strong enough to finish. He definitely has Jamal Crawford vibes. I have no evidence to support my opinion, but I'm tempted to say Joel Anthony looked better than Dedmon. Bertans was the guy I was most excited to see; he delivered and was the best out of the new Spurs. He seems extremely confident, even without showing it. His size is clear once you see him standing at the free throw line. He came in and drained shots which he has to do (unlike Forbes tonight) and ran the floor for his put back slam.

:toast Many thanks for the observations! In truth, Murray would not be the first Spurs PG with tunnel vision... Just sayin'. I would love to see the team pick up a guy who really was a pass-first PG with great court vision.

[ElNono]

It's more that he likes to be the one facilitating. If Anderson and Simmons were like Korver and Ariza, then that would be great. But they are both guys who need the ball, so Manu "making plays for them" isn't likely to get the best out of them -- especially Anderson, as he's not a slasher and will want to post-up and face-up for most his points.

Let's just be clear that if Anderson doesn't blossom, it has zero to do with Manu. It has to do with how Pop wants the bench to run and assign priorities and how Anderson performs outside what can be considered his comfort zone.

If Kyle "is not a good fit next to Manu" or "is not a good fit next to Patty", then that neither Manu or Patty's fault (nor really Anderson).

[sasaint]

:toast Yeah, I knew there was something. Still, LMA he ain't.

:lol Nor was he ever!

[BillMc]

:lol Nor was he ever!
:lol

[objective]

Remember that he got dominated by Papagiannis over in Greece. Georgios is someone I like quite a bit, but that's the level Milutinov would have be at for me to say he's a rotational center.


Dominated?

Not the footage I watched. It was quite even and the issues Milutinov had were with his size, not skill related.

[apalisoc_9]

Anderson played with Leonard as a two last night so its possible they're looking to stagger his minutes with other twos beside Ginobili.

There is really no reason for Ginobili to give up touches when he's playing the bench, no one in the bench is as effective as he is. Neither Anderson and Simmons can run our bench and Mills already gets his touches.

The problem with both Anderson and Simmons and its going to be a lingering problem unless they improve to a certain point that they are better than Manu is that they're most effective with the ball..and with Manu-Parker-Leonard in the team..thats almpst immpossible.

When's the last time a contender planned around the 8th best player as an offense?

I didnt watch the game. I know sometimes Manu can Hog the Ball even when plays with the starters...But playing with the bench, there is no reason for him to give up any responsibilities if hes still the best player in the bench.


This team still wants to contend not rebuild.

[SAGirl]

The Spurs have really "invested" very little in Simmons. I think he is gone - in favor of any number of young guys. I am just praying that Pop fast tracks Murray (as he did Tony - even with the "tough love"), for a lot of reasons. At any rate I think Pop will scrap the Simmons experiment in favor of the Lapro experiment or the Garino experiment or even the Forbes experiment. What Pop will do with the Deadman experiment is anybody's guess.

The way bench players trying to make the team got in this game tells us where the concerns are: Anthony the first bc Deadman is busting, then Lapro bc Pop is giving Murray the tough love (and he's looking like more of a SG than a PG to be fair to Murray). They still gave a look to Forbes which tells me shooting from the SG spot is still a concern I imagine if Manu is sitting a game (they didn't give a second look to Garino for example).

[apalisoc_9]

They really need to trade simmons for anything...the dude is 27 years old :lol

Still useless in defense...hopefully is out by february.

He's done. If they can get a second rounder for him..that wpuld be fantastic.

[SAGirl]

Let's just be clear that if Anderson doesn't blossom, it has zero to do with Manu. It has to do with how Pop wants the bench to run and assign priorities and how Anderson performs outside what can be considered his comfort zone.

If Kyle "is not a good fit next to Manu" or "is not a good fit next to Patty", then that neither Manu or Patty's fault (nor really Anderson).
I am sorry if I gave that impression. I think they have issues as a unit that start with their bigs and extend to Simmons not being reliable right now (thus pushing him to play as a swingman more often and maybe for the majority of his minutes). I think he's going to have to play whatever the team needs (even if it's not his strong suit) just bc he's swung in between different positions already before and the team has bigger issues than him right now.

I do hope his shot is improved bc it's needed with what they currently have and are doing. It's not the best for him optimally, but it's probably the best for the current makeup of the team.

[Chinook]

Let's just be clear that if Anderson doesn't blossom, it has zero to do with Manu. It has to do with how Pop wants the bench to run and assign priorities and how Anderson performs outside what can be considered his comfort zone.

If Kyle "is not a good fit next to Manu" or "is not a good fit next to Patty", then that neither Manu or Patty's fault (nor really Anderson).

Anderson should be a fine fit next to Patty. But he and Manu don't go together. You're right that it would be on Pop most of all if Anderson or Simmons were good enough to be the lead for the bench and Manu didn't recognize that. But it would have more than zero to do with Ginobili as well.

[sasaint]

The way bench players trying to make the team got in this game tells us where the concerns are: Anthony the first bc Deadman is busting, then Lapro bc Pop is giving Murray the tough love (and he's looking like more of a SG than a PG to be fair to Murray). They still gave a look to Forbes which tells me shooting from the SG spot is still a concern I imagine if Manu is sitting a game (they didn't give a second look to Garino for example).

Agreed, except without a good 3-ball Murray looks like as much of a project at SG as PG.

[sasaint]

Anderson played with Leonard as a two last night so its possible they're looking to stagger his minutes with other twos beside Ginobili.

There is really no reason for Ginobili to give up touches when he's playing the bench, no one in the bench is as effective as he is. Neither Anderson and Simmons can run our bench and Mills already gets his touches.

The problem with both Anderson and Simmons and its going to be a lingering problem unless they improve to a certain point that they are better than Manu is that they're most effective with the ball..and with Manu-Parker-Leonard in the team..thats almpst immpossible.

When's the last time a contender planned around the 8th best player as an offense?

I didnt watch the game. I know sometimes Manu can Hog the Ball even when plays with the starters...But playing with the bench, there is no reason for him to give up any responsibilities if hes still the best player in the bench.


This team still wants to contend not rebuild.

They may want to contend, but competing against the Dubs and Cavs (and possibly others) with a 39-year-old bench leader is a real uphill battle.

[BillMc]

Agreed, except without a good 3-ball Murray looks like as much of a project at SG as PG.

Ceiling: More disciplined Westbrook

Floor: Point guard who can't pass and makes dad decisions, shooting guard who can't shoot.

[apalisoc_9]

They may want to contend, but competing against the Dubs and Cavs (and possibly others) with a 39-year-old bench leader is a real uphill battle.

Then what do you suggest? Compete with Anderson or Simmons as the main bench guys? Its always been an uphill battle. Ginobili is just the best option at this point.

[Raven]

I know that is the position he has mostly played (hence, the :lol). (However he did play significant minutes at C last season.) But sarcasm aside, my point is really about the fact that Pau (and, really LMA) is a hybrid - a point center. Unless the Spurs rarely play LMA and Pau together (which Pop won't do), then the team's only "true" center is a bust. That state of affairs will not take the team very far. Lee is tweener - a short big with no midrange game. If LMA, Pau and Lee are the Spurs' top 3 "bigs" regardless of the Program listing of position, then the team is in trouble.

neither is a hybrid. LMA is a pure pf and Pau is a pure C, the fact that Pau was able to win while playing the pf spot, is just a testament to his skill level. They are as old school a pairing as you can find. What you can argue about, is that they will not be fast in transition defense and in general we will have to be an old school team.

[sasaint]

Anderson should be a fine fit next to Patty. But he and Manu don't go together. You're right that it would be on Pop most of all if Anderson or Simmons were good enough to be the lead for the bench and Manu didn't recognize that. But it would have more than zero to do with Ginobili as well.

To take your point one step further, Anderson does not have a skill set that makes him a stand-in for Manu, either. Both really need the ball and want to facilitate, but their manner of setting up teammates is very different. Kyle will never be the driver/slasher that Manu was nor the PnR player. Just as Diaw was not a good stand-in for Manu, neither is Anderson. It was really Simmons that PATFO hoped might become the Manu stand-in, I believe. And as much as I have rooted for the feel-good story that is Simmons, he is washing out completely.

[GSH]

When was the last time TP DIDN'T lead the team in playoffs assists? Tbh

In the '14 Finals, Diaw led the team in assists. For the whole series.

[sasaint]

Then what do you suggest? Compete with Anderson or Simmons as the main bench guys? Its always been an uphill battle. Ginobili is just the best option at this point.

Manu may be the best option in the short term for a majority of games. But he can only play limited minutes and limited games and is likely to get injured or run out of gas by the playoffs. I have doubts that Simmons even makes the RS roster. Anderson should get the early season nod to either make it or break it. It is time to fish or cut bait with the guy. All of the debate about Anderson on ST is close to the end - one way or another. (Get ready for the Murray debate to replace it.) Granted, the offense will be a lot different with Anderson, but the Spurs need to transition away from the Manu era somehow - even if it means a trade.

[sasaint]

neither is a hybrid. LMA is a pure pf and Pau is a pure C, the fact that Pau was able to win while playing the pf spot, is just a testament to his skill level. They are as old school a pairing as you can find. What you can argue about, is that they will not be fast in transition defense and in general we will have to be an old school team.

However you view those two players, my point is that the Spurs are going nowhere with LMA, Pau and Lee as the top 3 "bigs".

[sasaint]

Ceiling: More disciplined Westbrook

Floor: Point guard who can't pass and makes dad decisions, shooting guard who can't shoot.

A more disciplined Westbrook would be a HoF candidate. I don't really see that happening. For all his chucking and ball dominance, Westbrook still makes a lot of assists. You think Dijon has the court vision for that? Honest question - I don't know.

[BillMc]

A more disciplined Westbrook would be a HoF candidate. I don't really see that happening. For all his chucking and ball dominance, Westbrook still makes a lot of assists. You think Dijon has the court vision for that? Honest question - I don't know.

He (Westbrook) makes a lot of assists but isn't any exceptional passer. Murray (if he hits his absolute ceiling) may be able to do that if he pulls in defenders like Westbrook. But please also note I said Dijon's floor is a PG who can't pass. So, obviously, I don't know either.... :lol He's so young, we'll see.

[Raven]

However you view those two players, my point is that the Spurs are going nowhere with LMA, Pau and Lee as the top 3 "bigs".

does lee count at all?

[sasaint]

He (Westbrook) makes a lot of assists but isn't any exceptional passer. Murray (if he hits his absolute ceiling) may be able to do that if he pulls in defenders like Westbrook. But please also note I said Dijon's floor is a PG who can't pass. So, obviously, I don't know either.... :lol He's so young, we'll see.

I agree; it is kind of paradoxical. Just being a defender magnet is obviously the key, but he still makes the plays. I think the tough love that Pop has shown Dijon is good for him and the team. It worked well on Tony, who became an immediate starter (fingers crossed). Not so good on Beno... :(

[sasaint]

does lee count at all?

Is that a rhetorical question? You call it.

[objective]

If David Lee was so good as a Maverick then why didn't they re-sign him? They had tons of caproom.

Maybe they realized he was garbage on the court. A desperate move in season that they washed their hands of in the off season. Just like the Spurs did with Gooden.

[BillMc]

I agree; it is kind of paradoxical. Just being a defender magnet is obviously the key, but he still makes the plays. I think the tough love that Pop has shown Dijon is good for him and the team. It worked well on Tony, who became an immediate starter (fingers crossed). Not so good on Beno... :(

Pop needs to go full-on Melissa McCarthy on Murray. :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xez7kGgEg-U


Throw the toaster, Pop. Throw the toaster.

[sasaint]

Pop needs to go full-on Melissa McCarthy on Murray. :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xez7kGgEg-U


Throw the toaster, Pop. Throw the toaster.

:lmao Thanks a million! Too funny! Do you have that broken into clips? Can't wait to see the toaster meme the first time a Spur gets burned this season...

[BillMc]

:lmao Thanks a million! Too funny! Do you have that broken into clips? Can't wait to see the toaster meme the first time a Spur gets burned this season...
:toast Don't have the clips. Closest meme I could find was this:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/snl/images/b/ba/Article-2305246-19253CCF000005DC-549_638x356.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130902212452

[sasaint]

:toast Don't have the clips. Closest meme I could find was this:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/snl/images/b/ba/Article-2305246-19253CCF000005DC-549_638x356.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130902212452

Not as good, but it will work. :toast

[toki9]

Not as good, but it will work. :toast

Hope this works...

http://imageshack.com/a/img921/9706/zk1zh9.gif

[sasaint]

Hope this works...


http://imageshack.com/a/img924/3879/SFzkPG.gif

HaHa! Good job! :toast Do you join the game threads?

[BillMc]

Hope this works...


http://imageshack.com/a/img924/3879/SFzkPG.gif

Cool!:toast Many thanks man!

[toki9]

HaHa! Good job! :toast Do you join the game threads?

I mostly lurk.

[toki9]

Cool!:toast Many thanks man!

You're welcome. ;-)

[SAGirl]

Manu may be the best option in the short term for a majority of games. But he can only play limited minutes and limited games and is likely to get injured or run out of gas by the playoffs. I have doubts that Simmons even makes the RS roster. Anderson should get the early season nod to either make it or break it. It is time to fish or cut bait with the guy. All of the debate about Anderson on ST is close to the end - one way or another. (Get ready for the Murray debate to replace it.) Granted, the offense will be a lot different with Anderson, but the Spurs need to transition away from the Manu era somehow - even if it means a trade.
Agreed. I am ready to watch him play somewhere else if a trade improves the team but it won't be a straight up dump. It has to be something that really improves the team. He showed up for games when they needed him this past season, so the hope is not unfounded. Right now it just feels but like there are so many issues elsewhere that Pop will figure him out later. There's no point if they don't figure out other pressing needs.

Bottom line for me, I think Dedmon and Lee for bigs don't make the bench better than if they went with a perimeter line-up that featured Bertans instead of one of them and did involve Anderson in more of a playmaker role, instead of playing the floor spacer role which has been a weakness (and again I hope his 3 pts shooting improves through the season).

What happens when Manu rests its anyone's guess. That's when I think Pop has to bust out his "figuring out" chops and do place him in positions and roles that are good for him, and give him more of a green light. Otherwise, they won't really know what they have there.

[BillMc]

You're welcome. ;-)
:flag:

[SAGirl]

If David Lee was so good as a Maverick then why didn't they re-sign him? They had tons of caproom.

Maybe they realized he was garbage on the court. A desperate move in season that they washed their hands of in the off season. Just like the Spurs did with Gooden.
I think Lee has to play as a center offensively but can't defensively. I tend to think as a 4 there are effects caused by his lack of shooting that make it difficult for everyone else playing together with him. He may have an ok individual line stats wise but still be an overall negative bc his presence eliminates driving lanes for others (like JSimms if he was a viable player...) and even Anderson bc he does like to get to the hoop, it's indisputable and he's effective doing it, either picking his spot or passing to someone. None of that is there playing with Lee as a 4 though.

[sasaint]

Agreed. I am ready to watch him play somewhere else if a trade improves the team but it won't be a straight up dump. It has to be something that really improves the team. He showed up for games when they needed him this past season, so the hope is not unfounded. Right now it just feels but like there are so many issues elsewhere that Pop will figure him out later. There's no point if they don't figure out other pressing needs.

Bottom line for me, I think Dedmon and Lee for bigs don't make the bench better than if they went with a perimeter line-up that featured Bertans instead of one of them and did involve Anderson in more of a playmaker role, instead of playing the floor spacer role which has been a weakness (and again I hope his 3 pts shooting improves through the season).

What happens when Manu rests its anyone's guess. That's when I think Pop has to bust out his "figuring out" chops and do place him in positions and roles that are good for him, and give him more of a green light. Otherwise, they won't really know what they have there.

I wasn't necessarily talking about trading Anderson - although, like you, I am not opposed to one IF it brings value in return. Trouble is, his rookie contract won't really bring much in return to help this season. Frankly, I wonder if some combination of Bertans, Garino and Lapro would make both Simmons and Danny expendable. Dump Simmons and trade Danny for real value.

[sasaint]

I mostly lurk.

Up to you, but I encourage you to join in with "the meme" at least. Cracks me up!

[BillMc]

Up to you, but I encourage you to join in with "the meme" at least. Cracks me up!

This! The more the merrier.

[SAGirl]

I wasn't necessarily talking about trading Anderson - although, like you, I am not opposed to one IF it brings value in return. Trouble is, his rookie contract won't really bring much in return to help this season. Frankly, I wonder if some combination of Bertans, Garino and Lapro would make both Simmons and Danny expendable. Dump Simmons and trade Danny for real value.
Lol sorry cooking at home and lost track of the conversation... :tu

[Chinook]

If David Lee was so good as a Maverick then why didn't they re-sign him? They had tons of caproom.

Maybe they realized he was garbage on the court. A desperate move in season that they washed their hands of in the off season. Just like the Spurs did with Gooden.

Forgot that it was only the Mavs' decision whether to re-up Lee. Even so, Dallas at least doesn't have the habit of letting good role-players go to chase max free aganets.

[BillMc]

I wasn't necessarily talking about trading Anderson - although, like you, I am not opposed to one IF it brings value in return. Trouble is, his rookie contract won't really bring much in return to help this season. Frankly, I wonder if some combination of Bertans, Garino and Lapro would make both Simmons and Danny expendable. Dump Simmons and trade Danny for real value.

Getting better value on Danny's contract will be hard in the current market, I think.

[objective]

Forgot that it was only the Mavs' decision whether to re-up Lee. Even so, Dallas at least doesn't have the habit of letting good role-players go to chase max free aganets.

Wait, so you're suggesting after his best play in years as you put it, and in a role that seems to suit him, Lee then turned the mavs down to spend a month in limbo waiting on a minimum deal from someone else?

And with your second point, it's completely meaningless in this scenario. He had zero impact on trying to sign max players. They got their max Barnes, and had no problem paying for their own role players like Powell or Williams.

[apalisoc_9]

They probably opted not to re-sign Lee because they played him a center. With Bogut in town and Mejri improved play. it's safe to assume that they were looking at a Dirk-Bogut-Mejri-Powell-Barnes as they're main big rotation.

The only problem with that is Bogut is so Injury prone and Mejri just underwent surgery and Missed some games with Tunisia...not to mention it's hard to gauge Mejri proness to injury since he only started getting relevant minutes by the later half of the season last year.

Imagine Bogut and Mejri down..That Bigs rotation is gonna look awful.

[sasaint]

Getting better value on Danny's contract will be hard in the current market, I think.

You mean better value for $10MM/year than Danny, himself? True enough. I thoroughly expect both Danny and Patty to have great bounce-back seasons. But I was just thinking in terms of team needs - especially in light of the young guys' skills and who they might be able to step-in for who is also a trade possibility. (Whew, lots of factors!) It seems clear that PATFO will not move LMA, Kawhi, Tony or Manu. That doesn't leave many contracts that will match any potential trade partner in numbers - if not value.

[Chinook]

Wait, so you're suggesting after his best play in years as you put it, and in a role that seems to suit him, Lee then turned the mavs down to spend a month in limbo waiting on a minimum deal from someone else?

I think he wanted to sign with a contender. This was the off-season of cap space. Worse players than him got deals.


And with your second point, it's completely meaningless in this scenario. He had zero impact on trying to sign max players. They got their max Barnes, and had no problem paying for their own role players like Powell or Williams.

Barnes was not plan A. They wanted Whiteside and finished as runner-up for him. With Zaza in Oakland, they needed a starting center and got Bogut. After also getting Barnes, that's really where their cap space went. Of course, you're acting like it would've made sense to pay Lee, Bogut and Dirk in the same off-season without getting a starting PG. But I'm not there with you on that.

The stats just don't support a theory that Lee was some negative that Dallas learned to stay away from. BBRef loved him while 82games considered him to be Dallas' third-best player behind Dirk and Parsons. I'm not guaranteeing his success in SA at all. But the idea that he can't play center is inaccurate. He can do it an put up great numbers along the way.

[toki9]

Getting better value on Danny's contract will be hard in the current market, I think.

As a comparison, among SGs, Green is the 19th highest paid player this year:

1. Wade ($23.2M)
2. Beal ($22.1M)
3. Batum ($20.9M)
4. Crabbe ($18.5M)
5. Butler ($17.6M)
6. Matthews ($17.1M)
7. Fournier ($17M)
8. Thompson ($16.7M)
9. Turner ($16.4M)
10. Middleton ($15.2M)
11. Ginobili ($14M)
12. Crawford ($13.3M)
13. Afflalo ($12.5M)
14. Gordon ($12.4M)
15. Lee ($11.2M)
16. Ellis ($10.8M)
17. Evans ($10.2M)
18. Burks ($10.2M)
19. Green ($10M)

[SAGirl]

A more disciplined Westbrook would be a HoF candidate. I don't really see that happening. For all his chucking and ball dominance, Westbrook still makes a lot of assists. You think Dijon has the court vision for that? Honest question - I don't know.
Not right now. He's playing a very selfish brand of basketball at 20 years old and he is not nearly effective enough to be green-lighting himself for contested shots in the paint so often. I like that he has good timing in making a pass if he's stopped bc they help off the big. It seems easy watching others do it but seeing guys like JSimms and others getting trapped on the PNR, and TO the ball or pass to the other wing side for a 3 that's not quite open 90% of the time tells me that the timing on that play is tough. Dijon has made many such passes already to the big, which tells me he has some talent passing, but he lacks a lot in other areas as a PG. For example, he's impatient, he often doesn't wait for the play to develop or for the guy that's going to be open to get to his spot bc he's going at 100 velocity all the time. He doesn't have as much hesitation or craftiness to his game so sometimes, very often in fact, he gets somewhere b4 his partner in the play is in position, at which point, you guessed it: he will chuck. Ultimately I don't know if he can be a PG if he doesn't add to his game, but if we have doubts so does Pop, which I suspect means a mixed diet of dleague and garbage time with the occasional appearance for a rest game. He's got too much to learn to really be able to help in a positive impactful way.

I think Pop wanted Lapro heavily bc of this, but now it looks like they need Anthony too.

[SAGirl]

The stats just don't support a theory that Lee was some negative that Dallas learned to stay away from. BBRef loved him while 82games considered him to be Dallas' third-best player behind Dirk and Parsons. I'm not guaranteeing his success in SA at all. But the idea that he can't play center is inaccurate. He can do it an put up great numbers along the way.
^ Then it will be up to Pop to figure that out too. So far he's sticking with some weirdness.

[objective]

"Wanting to sign with a contender" is code for no one else wanting him. Besides, Lee himself said at the end of the mavs season he wanted one more deal for 3-4 years.

It's not like any non contender wanted to sign a faded, flawed old big who was cut by one team last year that took off once they benched him, and his second team didn't bring him back. If it wasn't for the Spurs giving him a minimum he might be in China with Boozer

[sasaint]

As a comparison, among SGs, Green is the 19th highest paid player this year:

1. Wade ($23.2M)
2. Beal ($22.1M)
3. Batum ($20.9M)
4. Crabbe ($18.5M)
5. Butler ($17.6M)
6. Matthews ($17.1M)
7. Fournier ($17M)
8. Thompson ($16.7M)
9. Turner ($16.4M)
10. Middleton ($15.2M)
11. Ginobili ($14M)
12. Crawford ($13.3M)
13. Afflalo ($12.5M)
14. Gordon ($12.4M)
15. Lee ($11.2M)
16. Ellis ($10.8M)
17. Evans ($10.2M)
18. Burks ($10.2M)
19. Green ($10M)

Thanks for the data. As far as Danny's value relative to the salary is concerned, I think even most ST posters would agree that Danny is on one of the great contracts in the league. I tried to explain to BillMc that wasn't really the judgment I was trying to express. I think I consistently defended Danny last season. And I expect him to have a great bounce-back season. I really like the guy, but if the team were to contemplate a trade in order to improve, the assets that PATFO would even consider trading are very few.

[sasaint]

Not right now. He's playing a very selfish brand of basketball at 20 years old and he is not nearly effective enough to be green-lighting himself for contested shots in the paint so often. I like that he has good timing in making a pass if he's stopped bc they help off the big. It seems easy watching others do it but seeing guys like JSimms and others getting trapped on the PNR, and TO the ball or pass to the other wing side for a 3 that's not quite open 90% of the time tells me that the timing on that play is tough. Dijon has made many such passes already to the big, which tells me he has some talent passing, but he lacks a lot in other areas as a PG. For example, he's impatient, he often doesn't wait for the play to develop or for the guy that's going to be open to get to his spot bc he's going at 100 velocity all the time. He doesn't have as much hesitation or craftiness to his game so sometimes, very often in fact, he gets somewhere b4 his partner in the play is in position, at which point, you guessed it: he will chuck. Ultimately I don't know if he can be a PG if he doesn't add to his game, but if we have doubts so does Pop, which I suspect means a mixed diet of dleague and garbage time with the occasional appearance for a rest game. He's got too much to learn to really be able to help in a positive impactful way.

I think Pop wanted Lapro heavily bc of this, but now it looks like they need Anthony too.

Not sure that Anthony is the answer. But the Spurs may not find the answer until the cut deadline - if then. It just seems to make Simmons that much more vulnerable.

You know... First Ayres, now Deadman...(some would add DWest) Seems like PATFO need to change something about their process for evaluating bigs.

[SAGirl]

Not sure that Anthony is the answer. But the Spurs may not find the answer until the cut deadline - if then. It just seems to make Simmons that much more vulnerable.

You know... First Ayres, now Deadman...(some would add DWest) Seems like PATFO need to change something about their process for evaluating bigs.

Unknown on J.Simms. I think Pop keeps him for depth. He's on thin ice, but I am not ready to let go of him and I bet Pop is still hoping, but he definitely needs to turn his game around or he could be gone midseason.

I found this review on twitter. The best review I have read of this game. I had shared another one with some 5 observations that really didn't say much but this one was interesting:
785000131179393024

Of interest:

Aldridge:
"finished with 14 points in 21 minutes, after he displayed his tool box of scoring methods both inside and out, while defensively, he also showed that even though Tim Duncan retired, Aldridge will still be a force opponent’s will have to get through in order to make it to the rim."
http://i.imgbox.com/KfK89DqL.gif

Pau:
"Looked a little tentative and out of place at different times... he connected with Aldridge on a high-low sequence, the way Duncan used to do with Aldridge."

Leonard:
"one interesting method where the Spurs used him midway through the game in the second quarter was at the shooting guard position. Using two different lineups – Parker, Leonard, Kyle Anderson, Aldridge, Dewayne Dedmon, and then swapping Gasol for Dedmon, Leonard played some minutes at the 2 and it showed how much more versatile the team could be offensively. When Leonard was playing the two, he had a smaller defender (Tim Hardaway Jr.) guarding him, and the Spurs quickly attacked the mismatch on multiple possessions. Though it’s just one preseason game, it will be interesting to watch going forward if Leonard and Anderson share more minutes together this coming season."

We saw them some time together in the past, limited opportunities but Anderson was usually a 4 at those times. Him playing the 3 with Kawhi at the 2 is a good experiment. Supersize lol
Tony:
"Finished with a game-high 15 points in 20 minutes. What’s interesting was that Parker wasn’t even that aggressive, but instead, he did his best to play defense, facilitate the offense and mainly push the fast break when the window opened, as 9 of his 15 points came in transition."

784956423008497664

Patty Mills, Manu and Kyle all 3 ran PnR when the bench was in, which is something we didn't know. Manu ended up with some nice passes to Dedmon that resulted in him getting fouled.

Lee -- "played in some of Boris Diaw’s familiar areas in the offense, mostly at the low block using dribble hand offs, or by constantly being a pick-and-roll option."

Bertans--He was the story in the deep bench players.

Another interesting note was how the Spurs used some 1-3-1 zone sets on defense with different lineups during different possessions. Intriguing.

The purple highlights are mine. It's a nice review. Still doesn't answer many questions we have about the team, but it seems overall that guys played better than we thought just looking at stats, and there was a lot of experimentation going on, which is nice.

Next game is Monday against the Pistons and Boban. Huge test for Deadman.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Tony:
"Finished with a game-high 15 points in 20 minutes. What’s interesting was that Parker wasn’t even that aggressive, but instead, he did his best to play defense, facilitate the offense and mainly push the fast break when the window opened, as 9 of his 15 points came in transition."

This is probably the best part of the game for me. Hopefully Parker can settle into a groove to orchestrate and play an all-around game.

[Chinook]

"Wanting to sign with a contender" is code for no one else wanting him. Besides, Lee himself said at the end of the mavs season he wanted one more deal for 3-4 years.

He might've said that. And Anquan Boldin said after the 2012 SuperBowl that he'd retire a Ravens, but he had no interest in reworking his contract only a couple of weeks later, leading to his trade to SF. Players say a lot of things. But acting like older players don't sometimes sign for less with contenders is silly. Maybe you have it in your head that ring-chasers are actually just min guys, but it's really easy to argue that's false.


It's not like any non contender wanted to sign a faded, flawed old big who was cut by one team last year that took off once they benched him, and his second team didn't bring him back. If it wasn't for the Spurs giving him a minimum he might be in China with Boozer

Yeah, faded meaning he had an Indian summer post-ASB last season, flawed in a way that a lot of players are flawed and old as in younger than any rotation big the Spurs had last season except for LMA. No creative interpretation going on there at all.

[ElNono]

Anderson should be a fine fit next to Patty. But he and Manu don't go together. You're right that it would be on Pop most of all if Anderson or Simmons were good enough to be the lead for the bench and Manu didn't recognize that. But it would have more than zero to do with Ginobili as well.

Maybe not zero, but very close, IMO. It's not like Gino didn't have to earn a spot on the team too when he was a youngster and he wasn't sent to park in a corner and wait there. He practices with these guys every day, he's spoken highly of Kyle and his game, but ultimately, the guy that puts the ball in Manu's hands or Kyle's hands is Pop and the coaches. We're not talking dumb players here, when there's a mismatch, they go right to it. The question is more about Kyle becoming a mismatch than actually going there.

[SAGirl]

Maybe not zero, but very close, IMO. It's not like Gino didn't have to earn a spot on the team too when he was a youngster and he wasn't sent to park in a corner and wait there. He practices with these guys every day, he's spoken highly of Kyle and his game, but ultimately, the guy that puts the ball in Manu's hands or Kyle's hands is Pop and the coaches. We're not talking dumb players here, when there's a mismatch, they go right to it. The question is more about Kyle becoming a mismatch than actually going there.

We shall see. I was more surprised at the number of shots Ginobili took coupled with his comment of feeling important and maybe I made a huge issue of it and kicked the hornet's nest. Obviously nothing I expressed about it was based on the "actual game" since I didn't see it. Sometimes guys do end up with shots due to smart cutting or even as the result of a play by someone else. He took 4 3s for example. I am choosing to believe those were not the result of a step back crazy 3 and were rather the result of something else by someone that ended up in him taking the 3. In the context of the game, I can't say anything bc I didn't watch it. Kyle was involved in the PnR for example, something I didn't know and looking at his chart he took 2 midrange shots that he missed. Those could easily have been shots he attempted off a pick.

Overall, it does seem the coaches are experimenting. Also for purposes of this game, it was later made clear to me in reviews that Ime and Borrego were coaching, so Pop wasn't even looking at X and 0 or strategies and are looking at player performance.

Ginobili is in good shape, Kawhi, Tony and LMA seem ready. Patty apparently played well. Bertans can shoot. Other than that, the bench bigs are a project and the Spurs are insistent on experiment on the PnR with a lot of perimeter players beside Ginobili. That can only mean, they are looking for ways to 1) develop others, 2) get them ready so that in the playoffs they can have the ball and it all doesn't fall on Ginobili.

You have a good point as far as I am concerned bc I took the comments in absentia of context or anything else. (something the very patient brooklynfan was pointing out to me, and cheers to him, he's a gentleman!)
:flag:

By the way, I can change my tune. I am often persuaded by others. lol
No soy una terca :lol

Also, as an aside bc it is only marginally relevant, Manu came in pretty much a finished product. The Spurs youngsters are much more undeveloped at this point. Kawhi took several seasons to reach this level himself and some youngsters like Dijon hopefully grow exponentially the coming seasons, there is going to be some growing pains all around once you get to guys 8-15 and you are not talking about the known, albeit limited quantity that is D.Lee.

[ElNono]

We shall see. I was more surprised at the number of shots Ginobili took coupled with his comment of feeling important and maybe I made a huge issue of it and kicked the hornet's nest. Obviously nothing I expressed about it was based on the "actual game" since I didn't see it.

I learned a long time ago that what's discussed here has zero bearing on what the Spurs do. Obviously, I don't know what the plan is for the bench, and we'll get to see that as the season unfolds.

But I do know who makes those plans, and he's a guy that definitely has the authority to change things if he doesn't like what he sees. That, I'm fairly sure about.

[SAGirl]

I learned a long time ago that what's discussed here has zero bearing on what the Spurs do. Obviously, I don't know what the plan is for the bench, and we'll get to see that as the season unfolds.

But I do know who makes those plans, and he's a guy that definitely has the authority to change things if he doesn't like what he sees. That, I'm fairly sure about.

I totally agree with you, which is why I get on Pop so often (and not just about Kyle things, though a lot about Kyle things lol)... I do like to read others bc often I am persuaded or see something from a different light. Sometimes I am not though, and that is fine... but this one, I saw things some way initially that without really having watched the game, there wasn't context.

Pop wasn't even coaching this. It might have been a little bit of a free for all (specially if they wanted to evaluate player performance like it seemed), and a time for the other coaches to experiment with their own ideas... which may even defer from Pop's since he wasn't coaching, again.

[SAGirl]

784940572079382528

[YGWHI]

you're wrong way more often than not. really glad you're not the gm.
I'm still waiting for him to make a thread saying Warriors will win +73 games/4-0 in the Finals, then I'll be sure that the Spurs has a shot at dethroning them in the WCF. :D

[YGWHI]

If LMA, Pau and Lee are the Spurs' top 3 "bigs" regardless of the Program listing of position, then the team is in trouble.


They may want to contend, but competing against the Dubs and Cavs (and possibly others) with a 39-year-old bench leader is a real uphill battle.

Agree. I've said before this is an extremely unbalanced team.

-The two main scorers are frontcourt players

-The other three best players are 34, 36 and 39 years old

-Except one player, there is a completely new rotation of bigs

-Lack quality/young/fast guards to compete and stay in front of elite guards in the West

-A clear lack of overall depth with all these new guys on the team and the rookies


I still hope the best in the season but it wouldn't surprise anyone if things don't work in playoffs.

[YGWHI]

784940572079382528
Nice!
There is a reason why Pop says that Kyle can play PG/point foward


Aldridge:
"finished with 14 points in 21 minutes, after he displayed his tool box of scoring methods both inside and out, while defensively, he also showed that even though Tim Duncan retired, Aldridge will still be a force opponent’s will have to get through in order to make it to the rim."

This new season his defense is vital to the team success.

We already know how great is Kawhi, and Danny's one of the best and most underrated defenders in the league, so it's on LMA to maintain the defensive level in the paint without Tim.

Don't like a lot Moore, he constantly exaggerates things -this time, Pau being negative on defense- but he's right about LMA in his last article.

"Pau Gasol is a step down from Tim Duncan defensively. That's just a fact. Even at Duncan's age, he was better than Gasol, and way more mobile. The idea of Gasol and Tony Parker being put in defensive coverage should keep the Spurs up at night.

Aldridge can help with that. He played great defense last year, better than I thought he was capable of, especially in switching out on guards. The game San Antonio won vs. the Warriors was impacted by Aldridge switching out on Stephen Curry. If Aldridge keeps that up again, along with Kawhi Leonard's suffocation blanket effect, the Spurs will have an elite defensive unit again, with Danny Green adding the bonus touches. (Green is the Spurs' most underrated defender.)
If Aldridge stays sharp, and takes a step forward, the Spurs will be great again. It's a pretty safe bet."

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/breaking-down-the-most-important-defensive-player-for-each-nba-team/