Open scrimmage, October 18th, 7PM

[Mel_13]

At the game, they just announced the details in the thread title.

[raybies]

guess I'll be attending with my daughters. Can't pass on free..

[Mel_13]

Free admission and parking.
$1 beers and sodas.

[raybies]

that's definitely a date

[gambit1990]

Free admission and parking.
$1 beers and sodas.
really doubtful on the beer being just a buck. you sure about that? if they said $1 drinks then i'm pretty sure they just mean soda.

[Mel_13]

really doubtful on the beer being just a buck. you sure about that? if they said $1 drinks then i'm pretty sure they just mean soda.

$1 beers and sodas. Small cups.

They do that as a promotion for the Rampage and the Stars.

[spurs10]

really doubtful on the beer being just a buck. you sure about that? if they said $1 drinks then i'm pretty sure they just mean soda. Yeah they are probably doing a DWI roundup. City council member " Hey let's fill the AT&T Center with 18 thousand Spurs fans and sell beer for $!. I figure we'll make about 18 million in fines and taxes when we arrest them as they leave the parking lot!"

[spurs10]

$1 beers and sodas. Small cups.

They do that as a promotion for the Rampage and the Stars. Well if you're confirming it- it must be true. I actually remember them selling the little cups and once giving small cups away. It's pretty safe really.

[Mel_13]

Well if you're confirming it- it must be true. I actually remember them selling the little cups and once giving small cups away. It's pretty safe really.

Yeah. I've had them before. Probably 10 ounce cups.

[Spurtacular]

really doubtful on the beer being just a buck. you sure about that? if they said $1 drinks then i'm pretty sure they just mean soda.

Sh** I don't know what this thread is talking about, so I'll just ask whose the chick in your gif?

[gambit1990]

Sh** I don't know what this thread is talking about, so I'll just ask whose the chick in your gif?
her name's alizee and she's the opposite of a nightmare. the gif in my signature is from a video over a decade old. she's still hot.

[ElNono]

$1 beers and sodas. Small cups.

http://tekla88.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/small-tea-cup.jpg

[Spurtacular]

her name's alizee and she's the opposite of a nightmare. the gif in my signature is from a video over a decade old. she's still hot.

Indeed. I knew I had come across her before; forgot the name. A classic beauty.

[cutewizard]

:bobo

[hooperflash]

785563220652068864

[Mel_13]

785563220652068864

The San Antonio Spurs are inviting fans to the AT&T Center for the 2016 Silver & Black Open Scrimmage on Tuesday, Oct. 18 at 7 p.m. The free event featuring a Spurs intra-squad scrimmage is a unique opportunity to see the 2016-17 Spurs team in action prior to the regular season home opener on Oct. 29.

The scrimmage will tip off at 7 p.m. and all fans in attendance can take advantage of $1 draft beer and $1 soda at select locations, plus 25 percent off in the Fan Shop and special ticket offers available exclusively at the 2016 Silver & Black Open Scrimmage. Fans in attendance will also have a chance to win special prizes.

The free event will have open seating on a first-come, first-served basis throughout the lower bowl and also feature appearances by The Coyote and Silver Dancers.

Fans unable to attend the scrimmage can watch the event streamed live on the Spurs Facebook page.

The Spurs host the New Orleans Pelicans for their regular season home opener on Saturday, Oct. 29 at 7 p.m.

WHO: 2016-17 San Antonio Spurs Squad
The Coyote
Silver Dancers
Team Energy

WHEN: Tuesday, Oct. 18
Doors Open at 6:30 p.m. (6 p.m. for Spurs Season Ticket Members)
Scrimmage Tips Off at 7 p.m.

WHERE: AT&T Center
One AT&T Center Parkway
San Antonio, TX 78219
PARKING IS FREE

[YGWHI]

Fans unable to attend the scrimmage can watch the event streamed live on the Spurs Facebook page.

Nice!! :flag:

[YGWHI]

Is this the first time they do it? I don't remember that an open scrimmage was streamed in previous seasons.

[TheRemix]

I'll be there, $1 beer sounds pretty good to me

[spurs10]

Is this the first time they do it? I don't remember that an open scrimmage was streamed in previous seasons. I think they showed it on spurs.com in the past. This is the first time on Facebook I'm pretty sure!

[cutewizard]

Gggggggoooooooooooooo SSSSSSSSSSSPPPUUUURRRRSSSSSS goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[YGWHI]

I think they showed it on spurs.com in the past. This is the first time on Facebook I'm pretty sure!

Thanks! :tu

[dabom]

I'll be there, $1 beer sounds pretty good to me

[gambit1990]

was gonna go to the game on friday but i'll be outta town. glad i'll be able to be there for this.

[tonight...you]

Wonder if the Topic of the Day will be discussed...

[dabom]

Wonder if the Topic of the Day will be discussed...

I'm tired. I can probably go...

[tonight...you]

I'm tired. I can probably go...
To the scrim? That would be cool as hell. I won't be able to make it down there until my b-day, early March.

I would look forward to your eye-witness report.

[dabom]

To the scrim? That would be cool as hell. I won't be able to make it down there until my b-day, early March.

I would look forward to your eye-witness report.

I kinda dont wanna go. Slept little bit and worked late.

[jermaine]

Anyone got a link?

[tonight...you]

Anyone got a link?
It will allegedly be streamed on their FB page.

[jermaine]

It will allegedly be streamed on their FB page.

I don't do social media

[jermaine]

There's no way to watch it without a Facebook... I dont have Facebook!

[tonight...you]

I don't do social media
Me neither. I'm looking into alternatives, but don't hold your breath...

[apalisoc_9]

No link in fb..spurs online team fail again

[SAGirl]

LMA not starting in this scrimmage.

[tonight...you]

LMA not starting in this scrimmage.
You're there?

[SAGirl]

Bigs starting Pau/Lee
Bench Dedmon/Bertans

wings starting KYle/Danny
Bench Kiwi/Manu

PG Tony/Patty

Where is LMA?

[apalisoc_9]

Bigs starting Pau/Lee
Bench Dedmon/Bertans

wings starting KYle/Danny
Bench Kiwi/Manu

PG Tony/Patty

Where is LMA?

Give me a lonk gurl

[SAGirl]

no online facebook live...
LMA in bench.

[spursistan]

need a link fellas !

[apalisoc_9]

no online facebook live...
LMA in bench.

There is no link on fb?

[Chinook]

Is this the worst stream every to everyone else, or just to me?

[SAGirl]

https://www.facebook.com/Spurs/videos/

[silverblackfan]

That is one laggy, crappy stream on FB.

[SAGirl]

Is this the worst stream every to everyone else, or just to me?

lagging and quality very bad to me

[Juan]

No Simmons or Aldridge during Scrimmage :wow

[bklynspursfan]

Ok everyone, let's remember it's an open scrimmage. Nothing to make any crazy assumptions or irrational conclusions about

[silverblackfan]

lagging and quality very bad to me

Glad to see it is universal. I don't have a FB account, but the game is still viewable. Laggy as hell.

[Darius Bieber]

No Simmons or Aldridge during Scrimmage :wow

[SAGirl]

Its a bummer this is so laggy... some good plays by Kiwi and Bertans, Pau nice passes, Kyle with an early backdoor cut. nothing much to note.

Lee off, forcing stuff. Bertans length bothers him.

[SAGirl]

Now it's just straight up stopped ... frozen in a frame.

[ceperez]

Bertans deadly from the corners.

[apalisoc_9]

Fiver year olds can come up with better streams than this...

:lmao

[SAGirl]

Hmmm makes me think LMA trade talks are possible if he's not playing here to avoid a risk of getting injured. He hasn't played in this one so far.

I didn't see him in the facebook picutures from yesterday's scrimmage either TBH.

[ceperez]

Hmmm makes me think LMA trade talks are possible if he's not playing here to avoid a risk of getting injured. He hasn't played in this one so far.

I didn't see him in the facebook picutures from yesterday's scrimmage either TBH.

Is that the official statement? Avoid risk of injury?

[apalisoc_9]

would be awesome if LMA and Simmons was traded..

[ceperez]

Bertans just letting it fly!

[SAGirl]

Seriously Bertans killing Lee every time.

Gets easy jumpers for himself, Lee ain't shooting over him in the paint either.

[ceperez]

would be awesome if LMA and Simmons was traded..

Yeah, where's Simmons?

[tonight...you]

http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg6qpo87O31qzdvd4o1_500.gif

[SAGirl]

Is that the official statement? Avoid risk of injury?

No that is speculation based on observation. Nothing official.

[ceperez]

Lee very disappointing... he can't score off Bertans.

[ceperez]

No that is speculation based on observation. Nothing official.

Indeed strange though.... coincidence that there are trade rumors and then now isn't playing.

Maybe there's a trade in the works? Speculation? Lakers?

[apalisoc_9]

Stream ended...

[SAGirl]

Lee very disappointing... he can't score off Bertans.

Lee will be benched soon TBH. He can't score off Bertans bc Bertans length bothers him and since he doesn't shoot he's very easy to guard in his own end.

[bklynspursfan]

Lee will be benched soon TBH. He can't score off Bertans bc Bertans length bothers him and since he doesn't shoot he's very easy to guard in his own end.

Whyd Pop discuss having a role for him then? I just done see it, I know you've wanted that since he signed lol but I think he'll have a role, just cause he does a lot of the dirty work that is lacking on the bench

[SAGirl]

Black team made a run but we missed it bc it of the disconnection.

[itzsoweezee]

So, is there a steaming link? If so, what is it?

[bklynspursfan]

Saw on Twitter Green was banged up and headed to locker room

[SAGirl]

Simmons hasn't played either from what I have seen.

[SAGirl]

Whyd Pop discuss having a role for him then? I just done see it, I know you've wanted that since he signed lol but I think he'll have a role, just cause he does a lot of the dirty work that is lacking on the bench

I don't know, but they wouldn't count on Bertans b4 seeing him or his knee, but if Bertans is clearly the better player it will be evident and Lee benched.

[TheGreatYacht]

Saw on Twitter Green was banged up and headed to locker room
Tank the fucking season.

http://truthcdm.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Sky-is-falling-news-headline.jpg

[SAGirl]

Bertans can attack close outs and pass really well too.

[SAGirl]

I like Garino TBH

[SAGirl]

Garino 3

[tbdog]

No LMA? rumors are true. /s

[SAGirl]

Saw on Twitter Green was banged up and headed to locker room

:depressed I hope he's not hurt for real. He had been bumped and really sat out a good couple of weeks of training camp.

[SAGirl]

No LMA? rumors are true. /s

LMA didn't scrimmage as far as I saw. I didn't see Simmons either.
Scrimamge photos from yesterday didn't show LMA :lma

[SAGirl]

Kyle corner 3

[GSH]

Lee will be benched soon TBH. He can't score off Bertans bc Bertans length bothers him and since he doesn't shoot he's very easy to guard in his own end.



I told you his height was a problem. But "benched" is probably too strong. He's going to have to get minutes.

[SAGirl]

I told you his height was a problem. But "benched" is probably too strong. He's going to have to get minutes.

You are right... demotion is more like it. For me it's not so much the height if he could shoot...

Kyle another 3.. shit needs to shoot that 3...

Bertans 4th 3 of the game, Kyle 2 3s that I have seen, Garino has shot well too.

[spurraider21]

Small cups.
http://cdn02.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2016/03/donald-trump-small-hands1.jpg

[SAGirl]

Lapro shooting hte 3 too.

[tonight...you]

That girl sitting off to the left is kind of cute...

[SAGirl]

Kawhi on fire... game is at the point guys are very lose on defense ... kind of games where jacking up the 3 is green lighted.

[tonight...you]

Bertans is Super Bonner.

[ace3g]

Bertans for 3!!!

[SAGirl]

Anderson midrange jumper... pretty.

[SAGirl]

LIVIOOOOOOO a midrange!!!!!!!!!!!!
:flag:

[tonight...you]

Oh... Bertans... I'm in love.
http://31.media.tumblr.com/815bd0465fa93054f85359bec298ca14/tumblr_n2rijwYf3S1srbrv2o1_250.gif

[ace3g]

I didn't know a redhead could hit 6 3s in a game?

[ceperez]

6 3's by Bertans.... wow.... just wow!

[SAGirl]

Bertans 6 3s... now he has to do this in the RS. He's killing everybody lol

[apalisoc_9]

Nice to see Pau shooting threes..imo.

[ceperez]

LIVIOOOOOOO a midrange!!!!!!!!!!!!
:flag:

Seems to be a reliable set shot.

[SAGirl]

I didn't know a redhead could hit 6 3s in a game?

:flag:

[ceperez]

Bertans 6 3s... now he has to do this in the RS. He's killing everybody lol

He's got a ridiculously good shot. His only problem is he forces it too much .... however at his height, he's not going to get blocked!

[SAGirl]

Well we didn't see LMA or Simmons.

Is it possible Spurs like 2 of the camp training invites and are ready to move on from J.Simms too?

[MaNu4Tres]

Bertans should be taking Kyle's minutes.

[bklynspursfan]

I didn't know a redhead could hit 6 3s in a game?

Bonner made 7 against OKC in 2010

[TheGreatYacht]

Bertans should be taking Kyle's minutes.

[ceperez]

Bertans should be taking Kyle's minutes.

It is more like Lee has no minutes left.

2nd team is Mills/Manu/Anderson/Bertans/Dedmon

[SAGirl]

He's got a ridiculously good shot. His only problem is he forces it too much .... however at his height, he's not going to get blocked!

Well at the end he took a couple of contested ones, but he had already caught fire earlier in the game, and the other ones I saw were open, Lee couldn't guard him in the PnP and close out to him quick enough. Dijon is incredibly quick and you have to help on him. The Dijon/Bertans PnP is very tough to defend for anybody TBH. Only thing you can do is put a defender on Dijon that will make him TO the ball, which Forbes and crew were not going to do.

I see potential in the Spurs youngins.

[SAGirl]

It is more like Lee has no minutes left.

2nd team is Mills/Manu/Anderson/Bertans/Dedmon

Aww well, the Kyle hate crew won't shut up about it, but that lineup is the one I would roll with.

[bklynspursfan]

Bertans should be taking Kyle's minutes.

I disagreed with SAGirls post that his play would bench Lee. Lee will still do other things despite the fact he isn't a shooter, that that 2nd unit lacks.

It'll be interesting to see come Feb/March what rotation Pop goes with. Cause there is so much speculation now, but I'd be shocked if Pop even knows what he wants to do yet

[bklynspursfan]

Also, it's 1 thing playing a pressure free game against your team. Guys who played well tonight need to prove themselves against other teams

There's just too much overreaction to these games in Sept/Oct when we should really evaluate in Jan/Feb.

[Robz4000]

So no LMA or Simmons?

[ceperez]

Aww well, the Kyle hate crew won't shut up about it, but that lineup is the one I would roll with.

Murray, Leonard, Bertans, LJC and Dedmon was also one crazy long team that was fielded. The other team had a really hard time absent any passing lanes!

[ceperez]

So no LMA or Simmons?

Either these two were injured or a trade in the works.

[SAGirl]

I disagreed with SAGirls post that his play would bench Lee. Lee will still do other things despite the fact he isn't a shooter, that that 2nd unit lacks.

It'll be interesting to see come Feb/March what rotation Pop goes with. Cause there is so much speculation now, but I'd be shocked if Pop even knows what he wants to do yet

I have only ever said, Lee's lack of shooting is a problem is he's played as a 4. You just can't play him at that spot. It's caused Lee himself benchings in the league b4 and Spurs are no magicians. If he's not taking a jumpshot--- I didn't see any here by the way, in fact I saw him open and put the ball on the floor to try to post up Bertans, and fail--- you can't play him as a 4, except you know garbage time, like Livio, who I did see hit a wide open midrange jumper by the way. Or he could be a mini small ball 5. I have only seen him be that with Pau. Only way it works.

I will be honest, I just don't like that he can't shoot. It makes life difficult for everyone else. It makes the team TO the ball, it makes it tough for others to get to the paint etc.. in general his defender is allowed to roam and help on others, and Lee himself is easy to defend bc he's not a threat to shoot. Just terrible. Every group I have seen him play with will struggle bc of his lack of shooting. Meantime teams playing with Bertans can swing the ball around and are very difficult to defend.

[GSH]

He's got a ridiculously good shot. His only problem is he forces it too much .... however at his height, he's not going to get blocked!


You think he's taking a lot of shots that he should pass up? And do you think he's a shot hog, or just not always sure yet where/who to pass to?

As well as he strokes them, I'd think he is one of those guys Pop gives a green light. Diaw used to make me ape-shit crazy passing up wide open 3's. I think I'd rather have Bertans take a few lightly contested 3's than to pass up shots like Boris did.

[ceperez]

I have only ever said, Lee's lack of shooting is a problem is he's played as a 4. You just can't play him at that spot. It's caused Lee himself benchings in the league b4 and Spurs are no magicians. If he's not taking a jumpshot--- I didn't see any here by the way, in fact I saw him open and put the ball on the floor to try to post up Bertans, and fail--- you can't play him as a 4, except you know garbage time, like Livio, who I did see hit a wide open midrange jumper by the way. Or he could be a mini small ball 5. I have only seen him be that with Pau. Only way it works.

I will be honest, I just don't like that he can't shoot. It makes life difficult for everyone else. It makes the team TO the ball, it makes it tough for others to get to the paint etc.. in general his defender is allowed to roam and help on others, and Lee himself is easy to defend bc he's not a threat to shoot. Just terrible. Every group I have seen him play with will struggle bc of his lack of shooting. Meantime teams playing with Bertans can swing the ball around and are very difficult to defend.

I agree with you here that Lee is a liability if he can't shoot. I would rather go with Anthony.

[ceperez]

You think he's taking a lot of shots that he should pass up? And do you think he's a shot hog, or just not always sure yet where/who to pass to?

As well as he strokes them, I'd think he is one of those guys Pop gives a green light. Diaw used to make me ape-shit crazy passing up wide open 3's. I think I'd rather have Bertans take a few lightly contested 3's than to pass up shots like Boris did.

He's not shy about taking the shot.

I don't know yet if he can get better, but he did take several shots where he was covered. He also took a couple of them off balance... some of those went in!

I just think thought that some of those off balance shots were way off and he should not have forced them.

My only real gripe is the off balance shots. I think the shots where there's a man guarding is actually fine considering he's tall enough to get it off without a real contest. It's kind of like Durant's shot. You can't really contest it.

[TheGreatYacht]

Not sure if this was posted,

788531525969031168

[tonight...you]

You think he's taking a lot of shots that he should pass up? And do you think he's a shot hog, or just not always sure yet where/who to pass to?

As well as he strokes them, I'd think he is one of those guys Pop gives a green light. Diaw used to make me ape-shit crazy passing up wide open 3's. I think I'd rather have Bertans take a few lightly contested 3's than to pass up shots like Boris did.
I think he's taking the shots he should. A shooter, like him, should throw up some mildly contested shots. Especially at his height and with his superior form.

[tonight...you]

Not sure if this was posted,

788531525969031168
https://media.giphy.com/media/SOd4ewl3JNTck/giphy.gif

[TheGreatYacht]

https://media.giphy.com/media/SOd4ewl3JNTck/giphy.gif
:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

Not sure if this was posted,

788531525969031168

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4681321/tim-duncan-shoves-richard-jefferson-o.gif

[Kawhitstorm]

I have only ever said, Lee's lack of shooting is a problem is he's played as a 4. You just can't play him at that spot. It's caused Lee himself benchings in the league b4 and Spurs are no magicians. If he's not taking a jumpshot--- I didn't see any here by the way, in fact I saw him open and put the ball on the floor to try to post up Bertans, and fail--- you can't play him as a 4, except you know garbage time, like Livio, who I did see hit a wide open midrange jumper by the way. Or he could be a mini small ball 5. I have only seen him be that with Pau. Only way it works.

I will be honest, I just don't like that he can't shoot. It makes life difficult for everyone else. It makes the team TO the ball, it makes it tough for others to get to the paint etc.. in general his defender is allowed to roam and help on others, and Lee himself is easy to defend bc he's not a threat to shoot. Just terrible. Every group I have seen him play with will struggle bc of his lack of shooting. Meantime teams playing with Bertans can swing the ball around and are very difficult to defend.

Lee is similar to Tiago, his bread & butter is PnRs + occasionally postups/offensive rebounds.

[tonight...you]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4681321/tim-duncan-shoves-richard-jefferson-o.gif
So Alpha...

[tonight...you]

Lee is similar to Tiago, his bread & butter is PnRs + occasionally postups/offensive rebounds.
Just without the, you know, superior screens and good help/post defense...

[SAGirl]

Lee is similar to Tiago, his bread & butter is PnRs + occasionally postups/offensive rebounds.
You can't play a guy like that if the other big doesn't shoot. The only big who could shoot in this crew was Pau. Every other time it was trouble.

[GSH]

I have only ever said, Lee's lack of shooting is a problem is he's played as a 4. You just can't play him at that spot. It's caused Lee himself benchings in the league b4 and Spurs are no magicians. If he's not taking a jumpshot--- I didn't see any here by the way, in fact I saw him open and put the ball on the floor to try to post up Bertans, and fail--- you can't play him as a 4, except you know garbage time, like Livio, who I did see hit a wide open midrange jumper by the way. Or he could be a mini small ball 5. I have only seen him be that with Pau. Only way it works.

I will be honest, I just don't like that he can't shoot. It makes life difficult for everyone else. It makes the team TO the ball, it makes it tough for others to get to the paint etc.. in general his defender is allowed to roam and help on others, and Lee himself is easy to defend bc he's not a threat to shoot. Just terrible. Every group I have seen him play with will struggle bc of his lack of shooting. Meantime teams playing with Bertans can swing the ball around and are very difficult to defend.


I think if people would go look at his old stats they would understand better what you are talking about. He's always been pretty damned bad outside of about 6-7 feet. Most of the shot charts show 0-3 feet and 3-10 feet. His 3-10 numbers look adequate, but not great. But what they don't show is that he's a LOT better from 3-6 than from 6-10.

Because of that, he really needs to be at the 5 and not the 4. And he's really not tall enough to play C against full-sized big men. Kanter and Adams would have really had a field day with him.

He's scrappy as hell, and when he can get his shot up around the rim he finishes pretty damned well. But his height is a problem. I think he's better suited to a wide-open offense, and not so much a team that grinds it out in half court sets. But as of right now, I see him getting minutes at the C, because Bertans doesn't have experience rooting for position in the paint, LJC looks like a scarecrow, and Joel Anthony is Joel Anthony. He's not good on D - he just isn't. But I think he can still score against a lot of bench bigs, and this bench is going to need some scoring.

[tonight...you]

You can't play a guy like that if the other big doesn't shoot. The only big who could shoot in this crew was Pau. Every other time it was trouble.
Especially when said player lacks the, you know, superior screens and good help/post defense of a Tiago Splitter...
Whoa! I feel a glitch in the Matrix!

[GSH]

Just without the, you know, superior screens and good help/post defense...


LMAO. Perfect!

[SAGirl]

https://media.giphy.com/media/SOd4ewl3JNTck/giphy.gif

These are some nifty retro videos...

LMA and Simmons are on the trade bubble though... suspicious that neither scrimmaged and I didn't see them in those photos of the scrimmage yesterday either.

[Kawhitstorm]

Just without the, you know, superior screens and good help/post defense...

I'm obviously talking about his offensive game & yeah he does tend to slip the screen to dive to the paint b/c he's a scorer unlike Tiago.

[tonight...you]

These are some nifty retro videos...

LMA and Simmons are on the trade bubble though... suspicious that neither scrimmaged and I didn't see them in those photos of the scrimmage yesterday either.

Vee shall zee, prinzess. Vee... shall... zee...

[tonight...you]

I'm obviously talking about his offensive game & yeah he does tend to slip the screen to dive to the paint b/c he's a scorer unlike Tiago.

Word up homie.

http://i.imgur.com/LPzVN1k.gif

[sasaint]

These are some nifty retro videos...

LMA and Simmons are on the trade bubble though... suspicious that neither scrimmaged and I didn't see them in those photos of the scrimmage yesterday either.

More Russ Meyer on ST... Why the sudden flood? It's purrfect!

[tonight...you]

More Russ Meyer on ST... Why the sudden flood? It's purrfect!
It's all me bud. Been on a binge today...

[sasaint]

It's all me bud. Been on a binge today...

I won't ask what kind of binge... It's all good! :tu

[tonight...you]

I won't ask what kind of binge... It's all good! :tu
Lol... Tura Satana. I just finished watching Astro Zombies a few minutes ago.

[GSH]

LMA and Simmons are on the trade bubble though...


This expression "on the bubble". I do not think it means what you think it means.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-COzNMyeTWO4/VcjHZpGAXAI/AAAAAAAAAmc/lm9kwW04jTA/s1600/aug_sermon.jpg


Simmons is probably "on the bubble" but I doubt many teams will be interested in trading for him. LMA may be getting shopped for a trade (although I doubt it), but he isn't on the bubble.

[sasaint]

Lol... Tura Satana. I just finished watching Astro Zombies a few minutes ago.

Waaay better than some lame scrimmage and a bunch of posters going nuts over McMullen's idle chatter. :tu

[tonight...you]

Waaay better than some lame scrimmage and a bunch of posters going nuts over McMullen's idle chatter. :tu
:toast My brotha... Although your opinion may change when I announce that I'm about to shift into some Italian, 70's B-flicks like: Warriors of the Wasteland, Devil Fish and The Last Shark... And then come the giallos to finish the night, when the wife gets home. She just loves to hate those! I know her! She says she doesn't, but I know she does!

[SAGirl]

This expression "on the bubble". I do not think it means what you think it means.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-COzNMyeTWO4/VcjHZpGAXAI/AAAAAAAAAmc/lm9kwW04jTA/s1600/aug_sermon.jpg


Simmons is probably "on the bubble" but I doubt many teams will be interested in trading for him. LMA may be getting shopped for a trade (although I doubt it), but he isn't on the bubble.
ok I got it mixed lol. It's just suspicious to see neither. So many wanted Simmons to get traded it's possible he's a throw in so they can get sapce for a camp invitee they liked.
wild speculation.

I love that character by the way>.... ^^^^^^

[chasky]

Some boxscore of the scrimage?

[ace3g]

http://nba.cdn.turner.com/nba/big/teams/spurs/2016/10/19/1476841656512-Davis-2-867721-7.576x324.jpg Davis Bertans: Postgame 10/18 (http://www.nba.com/spurs/?tmd=1#)
http://nba.cdn.turner.com/nba/big/teams/spurs/2016/10/19/1476841317053-Pop-Post-10-18-2016-867665-4.576x324.jpg
Coach Popovich: Postgame 10/18 (http://www.nba.com/spurs/?tmd=1#)

[GSH]

ok I got it mixed lol. It's just suspicious to see neither. So many wanted Simmons to get traded it's possible he's a throw in so they can get sapce for a camp invitee they liked.
wild speculation.



I don't want to look like I'm just picking on you. But Biyombo and Aaron Gordon didn't play tonight either. Those two would just about match LMA's salary. Do you think that means LMA is going to Orlando?

I'm just saying that I wouldn't read anything into those two guys not appearing in a scrimmage. You're not the only one to bring it up. But sometimes a banana is just a banana.

[tonight...you]

I don't want to look like I'm just picking on you. But Biyombo and Aaron Gordon didn't play tonight either. Those two would just about match LMA's salary. Do you think that means LMA is going to Orlando?

I'm just saying that I wouldn't read anything into those two guys not appearing in a scrimmage. You're not the only one to bring it up. But sometimes a banana is just a banana.
Wouldn't it blow your mind if, at midnight, that trade actually happens, beyond all logic? I would personally blame you.

[sasaint]

:toast My brotha... Although your opinion may change when I announce that I'm about to shift into some Italian, 70's B-flicks like: Warriors of the Wasteland, Devil Fish and The Last Shark... And then come the giallos to finish the night, when the wife gets home. She just loves to hate those! I know her! She says she doesn't, but I know she does!

We might like slightly different flavors of cheese, but we are both mice, lol! I tend toward the Peplums from Italia.

[tonight...you]

We might like slightly different flavors of cheese, but we are both mice, lol! I tend toward the Peplums from Italia.
Oh yeah... them too. Rome Against Rome is a personal favorite. Mole Men Against the Son of Hercules is another one...

[sasaint]

Oh yeah... them too. Rome Against Rome is a personal favorite. Mole Men Against the Son of Hercules is another one...

We could send our wives out for wine and cheese while we binged on the cinematic variety! :toast

[SAGirl]

I don't want to look like I'm just picking on you. But Biyombo and Aaron Gordon didn't play tonight either. Those two would just about match LMA's salary. Do you think that means LMA is going to Orlando?

I'm just saying that I wouldn't read anything into those two guys not appearing in a scrimmage. You're not the only one to bring it up. But sometimes a banana is just a banana.

I don't know about Biyombo health wise, but Gordon had a nagging injury coming into training camp (hamstring or something) so rest for him is not surprising. Also teams probably want to get a last look at their training camp tryouts b4 deciding on cuts. Magic do have issues with their bigs (Vucevic not happy with his minutes squeezed out and all). I would not be surprised if the Magic make moves this season, they probably need to if Gordon doesn't develop. He's just 21 and too early to give up on, but it is his 3rd season and he's pretty much the same player he's ever been.

You are right though. Simmons could have just had a bump/bruise kinda like Danny did, only he's not a star so it's a blip in our radar if it wasn't bc of LMA.

I didn't believe the rumors but after a bit of shock, I think I am ready for anything now.

I have to think though Pop maybe wanted to get second looks at Anthony, Garino and all the perimeter players and he's running out of time to make up his mind. He seems to be struggling with this one.

I remember I think it was 3 preseasons ago when they brought Jamychal Green and he looked so much better than Daye and/or Ayers but both those were under contract. Sure thing, they stayed with their guys under contract and today Green is a fairly good roleplayer in a good team, whereas the other two are out of the league. I think these training camp cuts are significant. You don't want to miss out on a roleplayer for cheap bc you had some scrub in the team that was under contract. 500k will end up costing so much more down the road.

[YGWHI]

'We're a happy family'

788567387117228032

[SAGirl]

Being nice...
For those who missed it.
788571081854464000

[spurs10]

I don't want to look like I'm just picking on you. But Biyombo and Aaron Gordon didn't play tonight either. Those two would just about match LMA's salary. Do you think that means LMA is going to Orlando?

I'm just saying that I wouldn't read anything into those two guys not appearing in a scrimmage. You're not the only one to bring it up. But sometimes a banana is just a banana. FWIW LMA and Pop were laughing it up before the game. There sure didn't seem to be any weird vibes from either of them. A banana is indeed sometimes just that!

[DPG21920]

Lamarcus looks like he wants out.

[spurs10]

Hope Bill Mc got to see the scrimmage. Bertans was lighting it up!

[SAGirl]

Lamarcus looks like he wants out.

I now tend to think him and J.simms didn't play bc Pop wanted to get good looks at Anthony, GArino and others...

I think this training camp Pop has struggled with the cuts bc he has some guys playing very well.

(see my comment on Jamychal Green above, not to repeat myself... but they probably planned to sit those two to get good looks at the roleplayers competing for spots --and maybe those competing for playing time, like Lee and Bertans.)

[DPG21920]

I now tend to think him and J.simms didn't play bc Pop wanted to get good looks at Anthony, GArino and others...

I think this training camp Pop has struggled with the cuts bc he has some guys playing very well.

(see my comment on Jamychal Green above, not to repeat myself... but they probably planned to sit those two to get good looks at the roleplayers competing for spots --and maybe those competing for playing time, like Lee and Bertans.)

I was just kidding with my comment. LMA looked happy engaging with teammates and Pop.

[spurs10]

I was just kidding with my comment. LMA looked happy engaging with teammates and Pop. This

[YGWHI]

12.000 fans, Spurs aren't trading LMA, Simms 'got something' 'nothing serious', Green hip 'is fine', Kawhi 20/Davis 18 points, Kyle was full on playmaking w game-high 5 asts... :tu

[SAGirl]

12.000 fans, Spurs aren't trading LMA, Simms 'got something' but 'nothing serious', Green hip 'is fine', Kawhi 20/Davis 18 points, Kyle was full on playmaking w game-high 5 asts... :tu

Hey thanks for the reports....
much appreciated YGWHI... :tu

glad to hear J.simms has nothing serious, I speculated that is what that was, but obviously my speculation has been all over the place. Glad to hear Danny is fine too. :toast

[T Park]

I was just kidding with my comment. LMA looked happy engaging with teammates and Pop.



A friend has now texted me that LMA and Pop were chuckling mostly at the BS today.

[DPG21920]

A friend has now texted me that LMA and Pop were chuckling mostly at the BS today.

I'm not even blaming anyone honestly. Spurs fans have been so spoiled with Duncan / Robinson being easy superstars compared to everyone else.

Spurs fans are going to have to get used to things like a little drama and whatever now that Tim is gone. It's ok, its stuff that happens all of the time but fans will have to learn not to go crazy over it.

[ceperez]

I don't want to look like I'm just picking on you. But Biyombo and Aaron Gordon didn't play tonight either. Those two would just about match LMA's salary. Do you think that means LMA is going to Orlando?

I'm just saying that I wouldn't read anything into those two guys not appearing in a scrimmage. You're not the only one to bring it up. But sometimes a banana is just a banana.

Yeah, I was wondering about Orlando. They seem to have real good defensive bigs.... Biyombo and Ibaka.... but not a lot of offense. I think a trade for Ibaka would be nice though.

[gambit1990]

la and simmons were inactive, sitting next to each other on the bench.

ime was sitting next to la throughout the game, talking to him.

pop was cordial to him.

[BillMc]

Hope Bill Mc got to see the scrimmage. Bertans was lighting it up!

I missed it my friend (though I'll be reviewing it on FB) tonight. Sounds like Bertans was lights out. Who was guarding him? Maybe that guy should be cut...:lol

[TheDoctor]

la and simmons were inactive, sitting next to each other on the bench.

ime was sitting next to la throughout the game, talking to him.

pop was cordial to him.

I saw them sharing the same cup of water too.

[Dex]

Being nice...
For those who missed it.
788571081854464000

Kickass....thanks!

[dabom]

I missed it my friend (though I'll be reviewing it on FB) tonight. Sounds like Bertans was lights out. Who was guarding him? Maybe that guy should be cut...:lol

Who was guarding him though? Lol missed it.

[spurs10]

I missed it my friend (though I'll be reviewing it on FB) tonight. Sounds like Bertans was lights out. Who was guarding him? Maybe that guy should be cut...:lol Haha! Don't want to stir the pot with who was guarding him, but a few of his shots were well contested. At one point in the game Gasol posted him up under the basket and that didn't work. He did well against every one else. Enjoy the game!

[spurs10]

Who was guarding him though? Lol missed it. I need to watch it again, but it was a case of musical chairs with him. Lee at one point. The last part of the game was all newbies.

[Chinook]

Just watched it. I thought everyone looked good.

Kawhi can pretty much hit any shot he wants right now. I don't think people truly understand what that can mean. If this is just Kawhi from now on, he'll be the best player in a SA/GS match-up, and that's just insane.

Bertans is much more dynamic than Bonner. He'll shoot with guys in his face, off screens, even off the dribble. Played nice defense as well. He couldn't guard Anderson, but he was able to protect the rim.

Anderson looked really good. No one guarded him well, not even Kawhi. But that's a scrimmage for you. Hit his threes, penetrated and passed off when guys ran out on him. This is the guy who needs to show up this season.

Livio was pretty good, too. Still had trouble holding onto rebounds -- that's his top priority as a d-leaguer. Didn't show much athleticism either. But he is a smart player, and that allowed him to help the offense move along and to get in good position defensively. He needs to find a way to keep what little quickness he still has while also bulking up and getting stronger hands. Long odds, but if he can do it, he'll be that player who makes less than $3 Million a season but still manages to play 12 years.

The centers weren't as exciting. Pau was more aggressive on offense, and the results were good but mixed. He can hit the outside shot as well as any guy that tall. But he let guys harass him into bad plays in the post. Needs to clean that up before playing GS.

Dedmon continues to look competent, which is good. He didn't stand out to me much for anything good. But he had some good rebounds and at least one pretty cool put-back. The things I remember about him are plays other people made at his expense, mainly Danny having a chase-down breakup of the attempted Kawhi/Dedmon alley-oop and Joel Anthony straight taking Dewayne's cookie.

Joel looks the way I hoped Dedmon would look. Dude knows how to play the position to the best of his ability. There was nothing fancy; he simply boarded, scored around the rim and contested shots. His block on Dedmon was amazing, considering Dewayne cocked back and everything. If Lee were a PF, there's no doubt in my mind I'd want Joel to make the team. As it is, I'm not sure.

[Dex]

Just watched it. I thought everyone looked good.

Kawhi can pretty much hit any shot he wants right now. I don't think people truly understand what that can mean. If this is just Kawhi from now on, he'll be the best player in a SA/GS match-up, and that's just insane.

Bertans is much more dynamic than Bonner. He'll shoot with guys in his face, off screens, even off the dribble. Played nice defense as well. He couldn't guard Anderson, but he was able to protect the rim.

Anderson looked really good. No one guarded him well, not even Kawhi. But that's a scrimmage for you. Hit his threes, penetrated and passed off when guys ran out on him. This is the guy who needs to show up this season.

Livio was pretty good, too. Still had trouble holding onto rebounds -- that's his top priority as a d-leaguer. Didn't show much athleticism either. But he is a smart player, and that allowed him to help the offense move along and to get in good position defensively. He needs to find a way to keep what little quickness he still has while also bulking up and getting stronger hands. Long odds, but if he can do it, he'll be that player who makes less than $3 Million a season but still manages to play 12 years.

The centers weren't as exciting. Pau was more aggressive on offense, and the results were good but mixed. He can hit the outside shot as well as any guy that tall. But he let guys harass him into bad plays in the post. Needs to clean that up before playing GS.

Dedmon continues to look competent, which is good. He didn't stand out to me much for anything good. But he had some good rebounds and at least one pretty cool put-back. The things I remember about him are plays other people made at his expense, mainly Danny having a chase-down breakup of the attempted Kawhi/Dedmon alley-oop and Joel Anthony straight taking Dewayne's cookie.

Joel looks the way I hoped Dedmon would look. Dude knows how to play the position to the best of his ability. There was nothing fancy; he simply boarded, scored around the rim and contested shots. His block on Dedmon was amazing, considering Dewayne cocked back and everything. If Lee were a PF, there's no doubt in my mind I'd want Joel to make the team. As it is, I'm not sure.

Good breakdown. Anthony has surprisingly looked like he could be an asset, especially considering the bigman rotation on the bench looking shaky to start. Gonna be a tough decision between his hustle, Forbes' sniping, and Lapro's all-around game.

Really wish the Spurs would just cut ties with Simmons, as he has shown less than all three of the aforementioned players thus far this preseason imo. But I doubt PATFO makes that move, which means at least one person who probably deserves a spot isn't going to get it.

[ceperez]

Livio was pretty good, too. Still had trouble holding onto rebounds -- that's his top priority as a d-leaguer. Didn't show much athleticism either. But he is a smart player, and that allowed him to help the offense move along and to get in good position defensively. He needs to find a way to keep what little quickness he still has while also bulking up and getting stronger hands. Long odds, but if he can do it, he'll be that player who makes less than $3 Million a season but still manages to play 12 years..

So odd that he seems to have lost his athleticism. The good sign though was he was hitting those open mid range jumpers with high accuracy. He is pretty raw, but for some reason PATFO has some faith in him developing into something serviceable.

[Leetonidas]

Bertans is gonna be the Spurs 6th man going forward imo. He plays with confidence and that shot is glorious

[jermaine]

Bertans is gonna be the Spurs 6th man going forward imo. He plays with confidence and that shot is glorious

I remember saying fuck GS because of Bertans. They gotta play defense too! KD ain't known for his defense! F. Green will just straight up grab him by the pussy..

[Chinook]

Bertans is gonna be the Spurs 6th man going forward imo. He plays with confidence and that shot is glorious

I hear Draymond's already starting to recruit him.

[spurs10]

Good breakdown. Anthony has surprisingly looked like he could be an asset, especially considering the bigman rotation on the bench looking shaky to start. Gonna be a tough decision between his hustle, Forbes' sniping, and Lapro's all-around game.

Really wish the Spurs would just cut ties with Simmons, as he has shown less than all three of the aforementioned players thus far this preseason imo. But I doubt PATFO makes that move, which means at least one person who probably deserves a spot isn't going to get it. That about says it about those three. Hate to see either Forbes or Laprovittola slip away and Anthony is much more ready to play now than LJC. I too doubt Simmons is going anywhere, but that does indeed bring up your point that someone deserving won't get a spot. There's one more game and then the tale will be told.

[SAGirl]

I thought Lee was the worst player in that scrimmage. I didn't see him hit a single shot but one put back that rimmed out then in. The lack of spacing was evident when he played too. He tried to post up Bertans about 4 times and always failed. Plays a out of time outs were snuffed bc his defender (Bertans) helped on cutters then recovered to him easily bc he doesn't want to shoot. In a similar play OTO, towards the end, Anderson faked a pass to Forbes, Bertans helped off of him on the cutter, which Anderson used to drain a pretty midrange jump shot. It's things like that which are absent when you play Lee as a 4 and he's a tweener center. In very subtle ways that don't show in a box score no one can score easily. He's horrid, I can't stress that enough.

I am developing a straight up avulsuion to Lee of the kind ppl here have unreservedly on Anderson. To me there's no more cancerous player in the Spurs right now than him bc he simply can't shoot. Even Livio... Livio!! hit 2 midrange open jumpers!! I rarely get on a player's case this strongly. Heck for all of J.Simms ups and downs I still see usefulness in his game and there are some things he can do well, Lee does nothing. Nothing. Nothingggggggg!!!!

Everyone who played had some highlight, something they did to help the team. Lee dud nothing but get blocked by Bertans then get cooked on the other end. I will probably complain too much about him and annoy others but I can't help it. This dude doesn't help the Spurs. He's helped Bertans case by making himself so easy to defend.

Again, I think he will be out of the 10th man rotation when all is said and done. I am afraid that Pop will stick with him too long for his own good, which upsets me about Pop. If that was Livio out there looking like Lee has looked he'd be benched. I thought Livio had a better game for example. Grrrr.

[spurs10]

I hear Draymond's already starting to recruit him. :lol I'm sure!

[Chinook]

Lee's had a strong pre-season. I don't think he's a power-forward either, but if Kyle doesn't do his part of the scoring, Lee for Dedmon makes a lot of sense. The bench needs consistent offense from someone in the front court.

[MaNu4Tres]

Lee's had a strong pre-season. I don't think he's a power-forward either, but if Kyle doesn't do his part of the scoring, Lee for Dedmon makes a lot of sense. The bench needs consistent offense from someone in the front court.

I agree.

I can see a Dedmon, Lee, Bertans, Manu, Mills lineup off the bench being used very often this year. Spurs need Bertans' shooting in the line up from the SF or PF position -- it's an elite weapon. Anderson doesn't have an elite weapon that Spurs have to have in the line up. He's avg at best in different areas -- not one part of his game is great.

[SAGirl]

I agree.

I can see a Dedmon, Lee, Bertans, Manu, Mills lineup off the bench being used very often this year. Spurs need Bertans' shooting in the line up from the SF or PF position -- it's an elite weapon. Anderson doesn't have an elite weapon that Spurs have to have in the line up. He's avg at best in different areas -- not one part of his game is great.
Anderson will not be benched when your cancer is Lee playing out of position, nor will they be better in that lineup, but this is something at will stir the pot all season. Lee plays like a center but is being put in PF spots. It won't work, period. He can be a microball center if you want but he's not a PF period. Bertans is no SF either.

[SAGirl]

Lee's had a strong pre-season. I don't think he's a power-forward either, but if Kyle doesn't do his part of the scoring, Lee for Dedmon makes a lot of sense. The bench needs consistent offense from someone in the front court.
He had a strong pre-season last season fir the Celtics, then when the real games started he struggled, his efficiency was cut by real defenders and he complicated matters fir the Celtics perimeter players. He was out of the rotation by Dec and the team took off without him. I foresee the same for the Spurs in my crystal ball (sarcasm), unless yes used like the Mavs as a small ball center, only if Dedmon struggles and I hope he doesn't.

[spurs10]

On another note it's been mentioned that Pop and LMA were having a good time, but I'm not sure if people saw Pop go into the crowd. He was going around the court shaking hands and thanking the fans. Pretty cool and good spirited. Lee came off the court to take a selfie with a kid. Good vibes all around.

[MaNu4Tres]

Anderson will not be benched when your cancer is Lee playing out of position, nor will they be better in that lineup, but this is something at will stir the pot all season. Lee plays like a center but is being put in PF spots. It won't work, period. He can be a microball center if you want but he's not a PF period. Bertans is no SF either.

Lee has been a PF his whole career. That's the position he defends best.

PF's don't have to be shooters.

Here's where you are wrong, ....

There's no required or strict skill sets for each different position, it's about where they fit offensively and defensively and who they defend. There's point guards in the NBA who are essentially spot up shooters on O but they defend PGs ( Delly w/ Cavs, Fisher w/ Lakers, Chalmers w/ Heat, Mills with Spurs), there's centers in the league who can shoot from 3 or long two's in pick and Pops (Hawes, Marc Gasol, Horford, Cousins). There's SF's or SG's in the league that facilitate the offense for their teams and play like how a "PG" should play. (LeBron, Kobe, Harden, Kawhi, Durant... to name a few).

If teams stay traditional and don't go small, then Dedmon, Lee, Bertans, Manu and Mills makes a lot of sense. IMO

Anderson is closer to a PF than Bertans. Bertans is quicker, more athletic (not saying much) and can space the floor better with his elite shooting. Bertans is like a Dunleavy w/ better shooting but Dunleavy is slightly more athletic and better with the ball.

[TimDunkem]

Anderson is closer to a PF than Bertans. Bertans is quicker, more athletic (not saying much) and can space the floor better with his elite shooting.
Not to mention he's much more decisive offensively, the ball actually moves or gets put in the basket when Bertans gets it. Anderson spends two seconds deciding what he's going to do then he either passes it off, or tries to take his man off the dribble (very slooowly).

And Kyle is the one who's supposed to be a natural point guard. :lol

[SAGirl]

Lee has been a PF his whole career. That's the position he defends best.

PF's don't have to be shooters.

Here's where you are wrong, ....

There's no required or strict skill sets for each different position, it's about where they fit offensively and defensively and who they defend. There's point guards in the NBA who are essentially spot up shooters on O but they defend PGs ( Delly w/ Cavs, Fisher w/ Lakers, Chalmers w/ Heat, Mills with Spurs), there's centers in the league who can shoot from 3 or long two's in pick and Pops (Hawes, Marc Gasol, Horford, Cousins). There's SF's or SG's in the league that facilitate the offense for their teams and play like how a "PG" should play. (LeBron, Kobe, Harden, Kawhi, Durant... to name a few).

If teams stay traditional and don't go small, then Dedmon, Lee, Bertans, Manu and Mills makes a lot of sense. IMO

Anderson is closer to a PF than Bertans. Bertans is quicker, more athletic (not saying much) and can space the floor better with his elite shooting.
Bertans hasn't been defending well perimeter players.... Anyways I don't want to get in a discussion about Bertans or Anderson bc we disagree fundamentally and we won't convince each other. Bertans best defensive moments were against Lee bc he's not a threat to shoot. He's very easy to defend if he doesn't have an advantage created by others and Bertans was able to bother him with his length, but he's been cooked defending perimeter players every time I have watched him against other teams so whatever you say about that has no value over what I have seen.

But whatever, I don't want to get on this about Bertans or Anderson. This is about Lee.

I said my piece already. He doesn't have a PF game in today's game and the team will struggle offensively when he's out there. What he does doesn't help others and it doesn't help himself either. He's so easy to defend and help off of bc he doesn't shoot. It wouldn't surprise me if Dedmon himself is made worse playing next to him too in fact bc they both want to do the same thing and get in each others way.
Again I said my piece and I feel pretty confident about this one bc it's not just based on one scrimmage. This goes back to Lee's play the past couple of seasons and his history already. It's based on things beyond this season. He's a tweener center and if he's played like that he can do things offensively but that's it. Playing 2 non shooting bigs in today's NBA is cancerous. That's what Lee's past couple of season and my own observations so far have shown and you won't change my mind on this,one.

[MaNu4Tres]

Bertans hasn't been defending well perimeter players.... Anyways I don't want to get in a discussion about Bertans or Anderson bc we disagree fundamentally and we won't convince each other. Bertans best defensive moments were against Lee bc he's not a threat to shoot. He's very easy to defend if he doesn't have an advantage created by others and Bertans was able to bother him with his length, but he's been cooked defending perimeter players every time I have watched him against other teams so whatever you say about that has no value over what I have seen.

But whatever, I don't want to get on this about Bertans or Anderson. This is about Lee.

I said my piece already. He doesn't have a PF game in today's game and the team will struggle offensively when he's out there. What he does doesn't help others and it doesn't help himself either. He's so easy to defend and help off of bc he doesn't shoot. It wouldn't surprise me if Dedmon himself is made worse playing next to him too in fact bc they both want to do the same thing and get in each others way.
Again I said my piece and I feel pretty confident about this one bc it's not just based on one scrimmage. This goes back to Lee's play the past couple of seasons and his history already. It's based on things beyond this season. He's a tweener center and if he's played like that he can do things offensively but that's it. Playing 2 non shooting bigs in today's NBA is cancerous. That's what Lee's past couple of season and my own observations so far have shown and you won't change my mind on this,one.
You apparently didn't read anything I posted. You just regurgitated the same post that I quoted.

Lee actually does a lot for the spacing or wide open weakside opportunities when he's the PnR diver. Sure if he's just standing there like in a meaningless intersquad scrimmage, he's going to ruin spacing. But in real games, he won't be implemented as a just stand there guy. He's showed in the preseason by being involved in a lot of PNRs -- finishing around the basket or catching the pass as a roller and swinging it to the weakside when the weakside defense rotates over to prevent the roll around the basket. I've seen it so far this preseason in games more meaningful than an inter-squad scrimmage.

Playing two non shooting bigs is cancerous? It's about how they are implemented! Spurs won from 2012-2014 starting two bigs who couldn't shoot. Sure Duncan hit the occasional mid range jumper but him and Splitter were diving in PnR's 80%-90% of the time as the big on the weakside would be in the dunker spot. I've elaborated on this before but you just don't want to acknowledge it. Either that, or you simply don't get it.

[SAGirl]

You apparently didn't read anything I posted. You just regurgitated the same post that I quoted.

Lee actually does a lot for the spacing or wide open weakside opportunities when he's the PnR diver. Sure if he's just standing there like in a meaningless intersquad scrimmage, he's going to ruin spacing. But in real games, he won't be implemented as a just stand there guy. He's showed in the preseason by being involved in a lot of PNRs -- finishing around the basket or catching the pass as a roller and swinging it to the weakside when the weakside defense rotates over to prevent the roll around the basket. I've seen it so far this preseason in games more meaningful than an inter-squad scrimmage.

Playing two non shooting bigs is cancerous? It's about how they are implemented! Spurs won from 2012-2014 starting two bigs who couldn't shoot. Sure Duncan hit the occasional mid range jumper but him and Splitter were diving in PnR's 80%-90% of the time as the big on the weakside would be in the dunker spot. I've elaborated on this before but you just don't want to acknowledge it. Either that, or you simply don't get it.
They were separated for entire series too and things opened up for them when they played Diaw. TIim is a HoF player too, and it wasn't easy even for him to play like that when it mattered. Again Lee is very easy to defend one on one. I don't want to regurgitate more of the same I guess bc at this point. I have seen and know enough on my own of Lee's past stops and how he affects others shots and himself to know,he needs space himself and opportunities opened up by others and will still be a negative overall even when he has so called good games. If he's not giving you efficiency then it's Celtics 2015.

[Chinook]

Lee wasn't a negative with Dallas, not even defensively. He and Dedmon can totally work together if the team can play a complex offense where both guys know how to get open off each other. That's even more true considering how bigs are rotated. But yes, the ideal second unit doesn't have him on it. The issue is that there's a really good probability (higher than chance), that the bench isn't great and needs Lee's offense more than Dedmon's defense or Bertans' spacing.

[MaNu4Tres]

They were separated for entire series too and things opened up for them when they played Diaw. TIim is a HoF player too, and it wasn't easy even for him to play like that when it mattered. Again Lee is very easy to defend one on one. I don't want to regurgitate more of the same I guess bc at this point. I have seen and know enough on my own of Lee's past stops and how he affects others shots and himself to know,he needs space himself and opportunities opened up by others and will still be a negative overall even when he has so called good games. If he's not giving you efficiency then it's Celtics 2015.

Diaw dove a lot as well though.

He was the secondary play maker as the diver catching the ball and making plays around the basket in 3 on 2 or 2 on 1 scenarios in the paint and he'd either A) Finish inside, B) make dump off passes to Splitter or TD who were in the dunker spot, or C) make the pass to the weakside for the wide open three. When Diaw wasn't the one setting screens, he sometimes was in the Dunker spot and sometimes at the three point line on the weakside.

My point though was that you can play two bigs who can't shoot, it's about how they're implemented. Pop already has the blueprint -- it's been used already with Splitter and Duncan and it was used even with Diaw/Duncan or Diaw/Splitter.

[SAGirl]

Diaw dove a lot as well though.

He was the secondary play maker as the diver catching the ball and making plays around the basket in 3 on 2 or 2 on 1 scenarios in the paint and he'd either A) Finish inside, B) make dump off passes to Splitter or TD who were in the dunker spot, or C) make the pass to the weakside for the wide open three. When Diaw wasn't the one setting screens, he sometimes was in the Dunker spot and sometimes at the three point line on the weakside.

My point though was that you can play two bigs who can't shoot, it's about how they're implemented. Pop already has the blueprint -- it's been used already with Splitter and Duncan and it was used even with Diaw/Duncan or Diaw/Splitter.
That's a poor comparison bc these two do not have the talent of Diaw, let alone Duncan. But they for sure ain't Diaw. Diaw could play with Dedmon very well. He's a versatile player that doesn't score from just one spot and is dangerous in many ways. Lee is not. Again maybe Lee used to be great and used to have a jump shot and be more versatile but right now he's not, length bothers him and you can defend him one on one easily and he can complicate life for others bc he can just do one thing well and needs the ideal conditions for that, space provided by others and advantages created by others.

He's easy to defend one on one and easy to help up off bottom line. No one was helping off Diaw without eventually paying for it. He's dangerous and despite him passing up shots if you don't respect his shot and help up off him he can hurt you. He was at times dared to shoot but he could get hot and shoot if that's what you wanted him to do. Lee is not going to burn anyone if dared to shoot and if it gets to that it's bc the offense is being stuck up and made difficult for everyone else

[SAGirl]

Lee wasn't a negative with Dallas, not even defensively. He and Dedmon can totally work together if the team can play a complex offense where both guys know how to get open off each other. That's even more true considering how bigs are rotated. But yes, the ideal second unit doesn't have him on it. The issue is that there's a really good probability (higher than chance), that the bench isn't great and needs Lee's offense more than Dedmon's defense or Bertans' spacing.
If you look it up in NBA.com/stats the team was a negative with him in the mavs, even with crazy efficiency and ideal conditions for himself as he had. The team was better with others than with him in the lineup. I will post it up from laptop later if you can't find it. I am in a table right now and it's difficult to really annoying to do that, but I am not pulling this our of my ass.

[MaNu4Tres]

That's a poor comparison bc these two do not have the talent of Diaw, let alone Duncan. But they for sure ain't Diaw. Diaw could play with Dedmon very well. He's a versatile player that doesn't score from just one spot and is dangerous in many ways. Lee is not. Again maybe Lee used to be great and used to have a jump shot and be more versatile but right now he's not, length bothers him and you can defend him one on one easily and he can complicate life for others bc he can just do one thing well and needs the ideal conditions for that, space provided by others and advantages created by others.

He's easy to defend one on one and easy to help up off bottom line. No one was helping off Diaw without eventually paying for it. He's dangerous and despite him passing up shots if you don't respect his shot and help up off him he can hurt you. He was at times dared to shoot but he could get hot and shoot if that's what you wanted him to do. Lee is not going to burn anyone if dared to shoot and if it gets to that it's bc the offense is being stuck up and made difficult for everyone else

It's okay. You just don't get it.

I never compared players, I was simply stating the way Spurs implemented the PNR offense with having a diver and a big in the dunker spot. ( Having two bigs who can't shoot in the game together).

You're complaining about how Lee can't spread the floor with shooting and how he can't create double teams in one on one situations -- which is stupid, IMO. No offense, because he's not going to be utilized as such.

Spurs aren't going to feature him in one on one situations. They're also not going to feature him as a stand there guy. Pop has a brain, he's going to implement Lee as a PNR guy only -- like he did Duncan and Splitter. Same goes for Dedmon. They aren't one on one players, and they're not shooters so they're not going to just stand there.

Bottom Line!!

[MaNu4Tres]

No offense, but you sound like the idiots that first complained at potential spacing problems when some of us wanted Tiago to start with Duncan.

[Chinook]

To be fair, there were issues with Duncan and Splitter offensively that the team never got past. That's why they never finished a season as co-starters. They were just so good defensively that it worked out. Lee and Dedmon don't have that going for them. They'd play next to each other because there isn't a better option, not because it makes sense for the team.

[objective]

No offense, but you sound like the idiots that first complained at potential spacing problems when some of us wanted Tiago to start with Duncan.

Lol, it's true, it's true.

Not even starting, just even playing with Duncan was proclaimed as something insane and indefensible.

[MaNu4Tres]

To be fair, there were issues with Duncan and Splitter offensively that the team never got past. That's why they never finished a season as co-starters. They were just so good defensively that it worked out. Lee and Dedmon don't have that going for them. They'd play next to each other because there isn't a better option, not because it makes sense for the team.

They finished the 13', 14' and 15' season as starters. Tiago didn't start vs. Miami because they went small with Bosh at the 5 and LeBron/ Mike Miller/ Shane Battier/ Lewis at the PF.

You're right, there isn't a better option for the team, so it makes sense to play them together, right?

My whole argument is that they CAN play together and spacing won't be as big of an issue as SAGIRL is implying. SAGIRL was trying to justify the reasoning by pointing to Lees' inability to be an effective one on one player or shooter. Which is stupid.

It's like saying Spurs shouldn't play Green because he can't create or can't create double teams in one on one situations. Or saying Spurs shouldn't play Aldridge because he can't create off the dribble from the perimeter.

[dabom]

SAGirl trying to go at a top poster. :lol

So funny to me. She's not very knowledgeable of the game tbh...

[Chinook]

They finished the 13', 14' and 15' season as starters. Tiago didn't start vs. Miami because they went small with Bosh at the 5 and LeBron/ Mike Miller/ Shane Battier/ Lewis at the PF.

Sounds an awful lot like them not finishing the season as co-starters to me. You're right that I did forget that he started against the Clips, and that's on me. But I almost forget that he even played in that series.


You're right, there isn't a better option for the team, so it makes sense to play them together, right?

I didn't say there wasn't a better option. I said that that's the only reason why they would play together. Definitely think they are competing with Bertans and Simmons for minutes right now. Because Lee/Dedmon doesn't have the defensive upside that Tim/Tiago had, I don't think there's the same pressure to go in that direction. That might end up being how they play it, but even so, I think this is going to be a season-long point of observation.


My whole argument is that they CAN play together and spacing won't be as big of an issue as SAGIRL is implying. SAGIRL was trying to justify the reasoning by pointing to Lees' inability to be an effective one on one player or shooter. Which is stupid.

It's not the best argument, indeed. And calling Lee a cancer is harsh. As people may remember, I was a fan of his signing even though I do think he'll be mostly fighting with Dedmon for time by the end of the season. There's just no upside to having and Anderson/Lee/Dedmon front court, and replacing Anderson with Bertans merely trades more confident shooting for worse perimeter defense. If they don't trust another guard or forward to play with Mills, Manu and Anderson, I think they need to be looking for ways to acquire another player, preferably a three-and-D combo-forward like James Johnson.


It's like saying Spurs shouldn't play Green because he can't create or can't create double teams in one on one situations. Or saying Spurs shouldn't play Aldridge because he can't create off the dribble from the perimeter.

It's more like saying the Spurs shouldn't play Green and Mills as the only guards. Those two can definitely play together for stretches to disprove an absolute assertion of that. But there is still logic to the protest.

[ceperez]

SAGirl trying to go at a top poster. :lol

So funny to me. She's not very knowledgeable of the game tbh...

She deserves to be the top poster. Definitely SAGirl is one of the more knowledgeable posters in ST! I can't say the same about you. I don't even recall you even posting!

[tonight...you]

Here it comes...

[Chinook]

If you look it up in NBA.com/stats the team was a negative with him in the mavs, even with crazy efficiency and ideal conditions for himself as he had. The team was better with others than with him in the lineup. I will post it up from laptop later if you can't find it. I am in a table right now and it's difficult to really annoying to do that, but I am not pulling this our of my ass.

BBRef has on/offs now: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02/on-off/2016

They bear out that Lee was positive in most stats but negative slightly in ORtg. And he wasn't great defensively but helped on the boards. Those stats are sort of weird, though, as they account for time when Lee wasn't even on the team.

[ceperez]

Bertans is pretty impressive. Offensively, one area that he needs improvement on is attacking the rim after a close out. In the scrimmage he attacked the rim hoping to make a play when there was nothing there. I don't think he's too familiar with that situation and other team mates aren't anticipating what he's going to do.

I like his length too. He seems long enough to at least be a bit of a bother at PF. Anderson by contrast is a bit small to be at PF.

Oh... one other comment. I like that Pau is taking those 3 point shots. I hope to see Aldridge do the same.

It makes everyone in the starting 5 capable of hitting the 3. Spurs will need that when they are desperate.

[apalisoc_9]

Damn..not sure if SAgirl just recenty started watching basketball..its ok girl, you're good people but you need to dig deeper into how offenses work.

Lee just like Deandre or other good roll guys provide spacing and weakside offense...the deandre is not valuable offensively in a system that relies heavily on PnRs i nothing but short pf comical

[dabom]

She deserves to be the top poster. Definitely SAGirl is one of the more knowledgeable posters in ST! I can't say the same about you. I don't even recall you even posting!

Is this some fucking joke? :lol

This is the equivalent of a Deplorable endorsing you. :lol

Let it be known. I always ignore your shitty takes. This is probably the only 4th reply I have ever done. :lol

[SAGirl]

BBRef has on/offs now: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02/on-off/2016

They bear out that Lee was positive in most stats but negative slightly in ORtg. And he wasn't great defensively but helped on the boards. Those stats are sort of weird, though, as they account for time when Lee wasn't even on the team.
Again still in a tablet. Check out an article I posted written by a Mavs fan/blogger about the negative impact he had on everything, his presence on the court caused more TO, they shot 29% on 3s versus 40% when he was off the court and they took 8 3 pts shots led per 100 posessions. He crowded others and made life difficult for others.. It's in the church of Lee or whatever it's called.. He impacts things on the floor that are not difficult to spell out bc it's not just one thing. It's how his defender is allowed to roam and help on cutters for example and he can't punish them,etc. Help on drives, help on the other big, etc.... and again a negative per NBA.com/stats

[SAGirl]

Damn..not sure if SAgirl just recenty started watching basketball..its ok girl, you're good people but you need to dig deeper into how offenses work.

Lee just like Deandre or other good roll guys provide spacing and weakside offense...the deandre is not valuable offensively in a system that relies heavily on PnRs i nothing but short pf comical
:troll

[apalisoc_9]

:troll

The your a troll argument.

:lol

The fact that you think a good rollman doesnt offer spacing

:lol

[SAGirl]

Bertans is pretty impressive. Offensively, one area that he needs improvement on is attacking the rim after a close out. In the scrimmage he attacked the rim hoping to make a play when there was nothing there. I don't think he's too familiar with that situation and other team mates aren't anticipating what he's going to do.

I like his length too. He seems long enough to at least be a bit of a bother at PF. Anderson by contrast is a bit small to be at PF.

Oh... one other comment. I like that Pau is taking those 3 point shots. I hope to see Aldridge do the same.

It makes everyone in the starting 5 capable of hitting the 3. Spurs will need that when they are desperate.
He has no inside game at all. I think over 70% of his shots in Europe were 3 pts shots. I posted that stat in the church of Bertans and he wasn't very efficient inside. One of the things he has said is that he needs to work on his inside game more and post ups. I have seen him pass very well if he gets run off the 3 though but definitely his game is based on the jumpshot. When he's as good of a shooter as he is, that's a great start, but definitely needs some kind of hook shot or floater for when he's run off the line like Matt used to have and was good at.

[SAGirl]

The your a troll argument.

:lol

The fact that you think a good rollman doesnt offer spacing

:lol

Really I don't concern myself with you Apo you know that. The chat goes right above your head.:lmao

[GSH]

Lee has been a PF his whole career. That's the position he defends best.


I don't want to just be argumentative, but a couple of Lee's best seasons were as a straight-up C. He was even listed as a C by the Knicks those last couple of seasons in NY. And in his first couple of seasons with Golden State, he spent most of his minutes as the only player on the court that could possibly be considered a center.

David West had spent a MUCH bigger percentage of his career as a PF than Lee, and he wound up getting stuck in the middle far too much when he came to SA. I think that's why I had such a negative knee-jerk reaction when I read that SA had signed Lee, because I could just see him getting put into a C role the same way as West, and it being just as big of a disaster. I really don't hate Lee as a player, I just him being a fit for a team coached by Pop. I was the same way when Richard Jefferson came here. Decent player - not a great fit.

Right now, Lee is probably the second most skilled C on the roster, behind Gasol. And that means we're likely to see Pop playing him in that role. And I'm afraid he's going to look a lot like West did, defensively. Offensively, I really think Lee will be better than West, even though he gets his points in a different way. Someone here, I forget who, mentioned that it's more important for the bench to be good at putting up points, and there's some truth to that. But against teams that have decent bigs on the bench (who are legitimately big) Lee is probably going to take a beating. Both on the floor, and from fans.

[dabom]

Ceps and sag in agreement. :lmao

[dabom]

Now I've seen it all folks. :lol

[SAGirl]

It's okay. You just don't get it.

I never compared players, I was simply stating the way Spurs implemented the PNR offense with having a diver and a big in the dunker spot. ( Having two bigs who can't shoot in the game together).

You're complaining about how Lee can't spread the floor with shooting and how he can't create double teams in one on one situations -- which is stupid, IMO. No offense, because he's not going to be utilized as such.

Spurs aren't going to feature him in one on one situations. They're also not going to feature him as a stand there guy. Pop has a brain, he's going to implement Lee as a PNR guy only -- like he did Duncan and Splitter. Same goes for Dedmon. They aren't one on one players, and they're not shooters so they're not going to just stand there.

Bottom Line!!

I get what you are saying, and I am saying they are neither talented, nor good enough together to make that work, and they affect others around him too. Both bigs basically do the same, and when his defender helps off of one of them on someone else they can't punish that, bc they won't space the floor stepping outside the paint for a pass, etc. I see your point and I am saying that is simplistic. It will be pretty evident soon enough, but personally I have seen enough to know that it won't work long term and changes will be needed.

Here is Lee in GSW.. benched, then traded.


On defense, the problems were the same as they've always been (http://grantland.com/the-triangle/courtvision-david-lees-interior-defense-a-k-a-the-golden-gate/). Weak contests at the rim, late and non-instinctive rotations and a chronic case of slow feet. But it was on offense where the cracks really began to show. David Lee's (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21909/david-lee) mid-range shot, which he perfected just before coming over from the New York Knicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/new-york-knicks), went from elite...to good...to dreadful in six years. At one time, Lee shot a spectacular 0.448% from beyond 16-feet (for comparison, LaMarcus Aldridge (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21819/lamarcus-aldridge) has a career best of 0.442%).


In the last two years, that 16-foot shot accuracy fell (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02.html#shooting::none) to 0.357% in 2013-2014, and then a brutal 0.303% this year. Somehow, his percentages from 3-10 feet crashed even harder, all the way to a nauseating 0.314%. Tony Allen (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/4347/tony-allen) just finished up a FIRST TEAM DEFENSE season (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhQQbZRjecI) shooting 0.261% and 0.333% from those two zones, respectively.
As David Lee lost the ability to make a jump shot, he attempted a much greater share of his field goals from the restricted area. This sounds nice in theory, as any 6'10" professional basketball player will shoot well from that range. However, his inability to leave the area cramped the Warriors offense by rule, forcing Kerr to play Lee with four perimeter players to maximize floor spacing. However, this meant Lee playing rim protector center, further compounding his defensive deficiencies.

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2015/7/3/8888067/2014-15-season-review-david-lee-golden-state-warriors

Here is Lee in the Mavs:


http://www.hashtagbasketball.com/dallas-mavericks/content/david-lees-real-on-court-impact

In the same vein of surprising impacts, Lee’s most highly complimented skill is his passing as a big man, but his presence increases turnovers, decreases assists, and depresses the Mavs spacing such that they shoot less three pointers and make a smaller percentage of them in dramatic fashion. With Lee on the floor, the Mavs shoot 8 less three pointers per 48 minutes and make only 26% of them, as opposed to the 40.3% they have made with Lee off the floor.

This last one is a podcast that has as a guest John Karalis of Locked on Celtics. The podcast comes to the conclusion it might have been a huge mistake to sign Lee after all.

http://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/locked-on-spurs-ep-28-was-signing-david-lee-a-huge-mistake

This is a lot more colloquial but the guy giving his opinion is a Celtics fan who observed Lee enough in the Celitcs to become fed up and tired with how he clogged the middle of the paint for othes without being able to do anything from there.

I have seen enough to confirm these and other reports to know he's not helping the Spurs enough for what good he's supposed to be bringing and I do think the team will be better with others. I will just leave it at that, bc these things will bear themselves out. Like I said I already said my piece which is based on personal observation and backed up by Lee's recent experiences in the league getting benched of teams and traded or not resigned. It might come down to him not being that good anymore but we shall see soon enough.

[bklynspursfan]

Again still in a tablet. Check out an article I posted written by a Mavs fan/blogger about the negative impact he had on everything, his presence on the court caused more TO, they shot 29% on 3s versus 40% when he was off the court and they took 8 3 pts shots led per 100 posessions. He crowded others and made life difficult for others.. It's in the church of Lee or whatever it's called.. He impacts things on the floor that are not difficult to spell out bc it's not just one thing. It's how his defender is allowed to roam and help on cutters for example and he can't punish them,etc. Help on drives, help on the other big, etc.... and again a negative per NBA.com/stats

But what he did on other teams doesn't mean much when he's on this team and given a certain role to play.

Diaw was cut by the worst team in the league several years back before joining us, and being in a winning environment again revitalized him. Being with the right teammates/coaching/system was something Bobo benefited from. Should the Spurs have assumed, he had a negative impact in Charlotte, and he's getting cut from the worst team, so let's just ignore him? No, cause Bobo is valuable and versatile, and with the right guys around him they believed he could have a positive impact (Plus, he's TP's boy)

To just assume a player might have a negative impact based off some stats, without factoring who he was playing with on the other team, and the other many variables that come in to play , is not the best way to evaluate a player.

btw, there are other articles/bloggers that will have different takes and show how he had a positive impact.

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/5/22/11710456/david-lee-player-review-mavericks-2016

http://www.mavs.com/david-lee-brings-smarts-consistency-rebounding-to-mavs/

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nba/dallas-mavericks/full-court-press-blog/article62848907.html


Whether it's at the 4 or the 5, Lee will get minutes. Guys will have to learn to play together, and whoever the 3 perimeter guys are will need to be able to run the P&R, and spot up and shoot 3's. Lee provides rebounding that the 2nd unit desperately needs, along with other intangibles. He's not going to be going up against Cousins/Griffin's of the league either. He doesn't have the strongest defense, but he is 1 of the more skilled/hard working bigs we have. And Pop is certainly going to utilize him, as well we should. You have to put your best players on the court, and figure out the best combinations to make it work

[dabom]

But what he did on other teams doesn't mean much when he's on this team and given a certain role to play. Diaw was cut by the worst team in the league several years back before joining us, and being in a winning environment again revitalized him. To just assume a player might have a negative impact based off some stats, without factoring who he was playing with on the other team, and the other many variables that come in to play , is not the best way to evaluate a player.

btw, there are other articles/bloggers that will have different takes and show how he had a positive impact.

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/5/22/11710456/david-lee-player-review-mavericks-2016

http://www.mavs.com/david-lee-brings-smarts-consistency-rebounding-to-mavs/

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nba/dallas-mavericks/full-court-press-blog/article62848907.html


Whether it's at the 4 or the 5, Lee will get minutes. Guys will have to learn to play together, and whoever the 3 perimeter guys are will need to be able to run the P&R, and spot up and shoot 3's. Lee provides rebounding that the 2nd unit desperately needs, along with other intangibles. He's not going to be going up against Cousins/Griffin's of the league either. He doesn't have the strongest defense, but he is 1 of the more skilled/hard working bigs we have. And Pop is certainly going to utilize him, as well we should. You have to put your best players on the court, and figure out the best combinations to make it work

I was just going to point this out. Some people are just fucking twats tbh. :lol

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't want to just be argumentative, but a couple of Lee's best seasons were as a straight-up C. He was even listed as a C by the Knicks those last couple of seasons in NY. And in his first couple of seasons with Golden State, he spent most of his minutes as the only player on the court that could possibly be considered a center.

David West had spent a MUCH bigger percentage of his career as a PF than Lee, and he wound up getting stuck in the middle far too much when he came to SA. I think that's why I had such a negative knee-jerk reaction when I read that SA had signed Lee, because I could just see him getting put into a C role the same way as West, and it being just as big of a disaster. I really don't hate Lee as a player, I just him being a fit for a team coached by Pop. I was the same way when Richard Jefferson came here. Decent player - not a great fit.

Right now, Lee is probably the second most skilled C on the roster, behind Gasol. And that means we're likely to see Pop playing him in that role. And I'm afraid he's going to look a lot like West did, defensively. Offensively, I really think Lee will be better than West, even though he gets his points in a different way. Someone here, I forget who, mentioned that it's more important for the bench to be good at putting up points, and there's some truth to that. But against teams that have decent bigs on the bench (who are legitimately big) Lee is probably going to take a beating. Both on the floor, and from fans.

In his whole career, Lee played all but two seasons as a PF.

When he started his career with the Knicks, Eddy Curry was the starting Center for the first two years he was there. The reason he HAD to play C the next two years is because D'Antoni wanted to go small and implement the Suns fast pace style of play without a C and Jared Jeffries, who was drafted as a SF, played PF.


As for his time with the Warriors, he played PF his entire time as Biedrins, Ezeli, Bogut were the starting centers. I'm sure there were times Lee was the only big on the floor in times GS went small, just like Aldridge is sometimes or just like Diaw was sometimes, but that doesn't mean they're true centers.

True centers are the guys who are at their best when they defend other centers. As long as you have the size, there's no specific skill-set that needs to be met to play a position. It all comes down to matchups, which position you defend best, and how the players' best attributes match the strengths of the teammates.

Let me ask you this. If Spurs saw Lee as a C when they signed him (like you're implying), why would they stock up on third string center (Lee), without signing a back up PF? Why didn't they sign a back up PF then? And then invite ANOTHER C to camp without inviting a PF?

Don't bring up Jean-Charles, he's irrelevant. And Bertans/ Anderson aren't true PFs they are tweeners -- they don't count.

Plus, one of the Bertans/Anderson will be seeing most of the minutes at the SF spot. It's just hard to believe the Spurs came into the year under your perception, which is signing three centers, and not signing a PF in Free agency -- being content and heavily relying on Bertans to be the only back up PF on the Spurs roster. That scenario makes no sense. Common sense is clear that Spurs signed Lee as a PF.

[SAGirl]

But what he did on other teams doesn't mean much when he's on this team and given a certain role to play.

Diaw was cut by the worst team in the league several years back before joining us, and being in a winning environment again revitalized him. Being with the right teammates/coaching/system was something Bobo benefited from. Should the Spurs have assumed, he had a negative impact in Charlotte, and he's getting cut from the worst team, so let's just ignore him? No, cause Bobo is valuable and versatile, and with the right guys around him they believed he could have a positive impact (Plus, he's TP's boy)

To just assume a player might have a negative impact based off some stats, without factoring who he was playing with on the other team, and the other many variables that come in to play , is not the best way to evaluate a player.

btw, there are other articles/bloggers that will have different takes and show how he had a positive impact.

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/5/22/11710456/david-lee-player-review-mavericks-2016

http://www.mavs.com/david-lee-brings-smarts-consistency-rebounding-to-mavs/

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nba/dallas-mavericks/full-court-press-blog/article62848907.html


Whether it's at the 4 or the 5, Lee will get minutes. Guys will have to learn to play together, and whoever the 3 perimeter guys are will need to be able to run the P&R, and spot up and shoot 3's. Lee provides rebounding that the 2nd unit desperately needs, along with other intangibles. He's not going to be going up against Cousins/Griffin's of the league either. He doesn't have the strongest defense, but he is 1 of the more skilled/hard working bigs we have. And Pop is certainly going to utilize him, as well we should. You have to put your best players on the court, and figure out the best combinations to make it work

We shall see. I already said my piece on Lee. He has been in good teams and with good coaches. Obviously context matters, but he wasn't rotting away on some tank team. He wasn't looking disgruntled like Pau in the Lakers or Diaw in the Bobcats. He's been in good/great teams with good coaches that have sought to maximixe his skills.

I think he has been most successful recently as a microball center, but I have not seen Pop place him at that spot and Pop won't want to sacrifice his defense for Lee (or anybody) if he can spare it.

Like I do for every Spur, so long as they guy is in the team and Pop relies on them I hope they play well and I root for them. I can be critical of a guy like anybody if he deserves it or if his game is not helping matters, but I am not the kind to be wishing guys get injured, or traded, or waived. It's not my shtick like its is for a lot here. I haven't liked this addition since the beginning. It has nothing to do with the two young forwards the team have (which by the way, their development is important to the team and if they are better than Lee, so much for the better bc Lee is a passing vet on the decline and the other two are young players still getting better). But this goes beyond them, I was already not enthused by the addition bc I had seen the warning signs elsewhere and my concerns have not been dispelled by what I have seen out of Lee.

But so long as he's here I am wishing him the best...

[SAGirl]

In his whole career, Lee played all but two seasons as a PF.

When he started his career with the Knicks, Eddy Curry was the starting Center for the first two years he was there. The reason he HAD to play C the next two years is because D'Antoni wanted to go small and implement the Suns fast pace style of play without a C and Jared Jeffries, who was drafted as a SF, played PF.


As for his time with the Warriors, he played PF his entire time as Biedrins, Ezeli, Bogut were the starting centers. I'm sure there were times Lee was the only big on the floor in times GS went small, just like Aldridge is sometimes or just like Diaw was sometimes, but that doesn't mean they're true centers.

True centers are the guys who are at their best when they defend other centers. As long as you have the size, there's no specific skill-set that needs to be met to play a position. It all comes down to matchups, which position you defend best, and how the players' best attributes match the strengths of the teammates.

Let me ask you this. If Spurs saw Lee as a C when they signed him (like you're implying), why would they stock up on third string center (Lee), without signing a back up PF? Why didn't they sign a back up PF then? And then invite ANOTHER C to camp without inviting a PF?

Don't bring up Jean-Charles, he's irrelevant. And Bertans/ Anderson aren't true PFs they are tweeners -- they don't count.

Plus, one of the Bertans/Anderson will be seeing most of the minutes at the SF spot. It's just hard to believe the Spurs came into the year under your perception, which is signing three centers, and not signing a PF in Free agency -- being content and heavily relying on Bertans to be the only back up PF on the Spurs roster. That scenario makes no sense. Common sense is clear that Spurs signed Lee as a PF.

I think Spurs intend to play Lee as a 4 and I think that will not work out well. He has the offensive game of a center and that limits what that unit can do offensively. Guys will drive and get stuck, or have to force up shots over contested hands of Lee and Dedmon's defenders (I have seen it already in real games). Guys will pass out to Lee in what should be a shooting spot, but he will not take that shot. He will attempt to drive and put up a contested shot (like he did on Bertans, but I have seen it in real games. He's scored a bit on garbage baskets and put backs, but the story is that the putback was there off a miss by someone else who drove and had to put up a tough shot to begin with.

/sigh. Anyways, I have already talked about it and I don't want to sound repetitive. I just wanted to let you know I am not discounting your insight and I usually enjoy these chats and it's not my intent with these things to come out having the final word or being right. I had already expressed some concern prior to the preseason about Lee (and without even knowing how Bertans or others would look), but what I have seen out of lineups with Lee hasn't been good, so I am concerned about him offensively.

Bottom line, I think Pop will try to make it work but the bench will work out better with others who provide better spacing in general. It could be that Pop tries Lee at different spots and with different guys (I have already seen him with Pau and LMA). It's the combinations with Dedmon where the team struggles.

I will just leave it at that. This is one of those areas that may be changing.

By the way, I am not one to wish a guy plays poorly just for me to be right. I don't know if you care about such things, but just putting that out there, bc that's not the reason why I exchange opinions and such. If I am wrong I was wrong and that be fine by me.

[MaNu4Tres]

I think Spurs intend to play Lee as a 4 and I think that will not work out well. He has the offensive game of a center and that limits what that unit can do offensively. Guys will drive and get stuck, or have to force up shots over contested hands of Lee and Dedmon's defenders (I have seen it already in real games). Guys will pass out to Lee in what should be a shooting spot, but he will not take that shot. He will attempt to drive and put up a contested shot (like he did on Bertans, but I have seen it in real games. He's scored a bit on garbage baskets and put backs, but the story is that the putback was there off a miss by someone else who drove and had to put up a tough shot to begin with.


I'm not saying it may work out great, what I was saying is Lee and Dedmon can work when implemented the right way. You said they couldn't because they aren't good one on one players and they aren't shooters. Spurs wouldn't put them in a position to fail or do the team a disservice by calling 4 down for Lee or telling Lee to spot up on the perimeter. Judging them by aspects that are irrelevant to how they'll be used is just wrong. They will have to be very active, setting good screens for the ball handler, have great timing and be effective when rolling or diving ( which Lee and Dedmon have done well in their past). How effective will it be? That will depend a lot on chemistry and timing between them and the ball handlers in the PNR. It will also depend on how well Bertans or another shooter on the weakside shoots to make the weakside a relevant weapon.

Again, there's no specific type of offensive game of a center. All centers are different. There's no specific criteria or skill-set of the position. Some centers post up, some centers are PNR divers, some are Pn Poppers from long 2, some can shoot 3's, some can't shoot, some can take their man off the dribble, some can't dribble, some can finish inside well, some can't finish inside well. There's different variables on the offensive end for all centers, and all positions -- players are different. It's about skill-sets that best fit around the players they are playing with and which position they defend best.

[SAGirl]

Also, discussion of Knicks and prior Lee is irrelevant, that was his peak and he will now soon be 34. He hasn't had a jumpshot for a few years now, so the Lee of his youth is not this version of him in his latter stages. I didn't see him then but his game has changed as he's aged and while he was possible as a PF back then and quite good, he's not now when his jumpshot deserted him. His last spots have been coaches trying to work around his limitations.

[spurs10]

But what he did on other teams doesn't mean much when he's on this team and given a certain role to play.

Diaw was cut by the worst team in the league several years back before joining us, and being in a winning environment again revitalized him. Being with the right teammates/coaching/system was something Bobo benefited from. Should the Spurs have assumed, he had a negative impact in Charlotte, and he's getting cut from the worst team, so let's just ignore him? No, cause Bobo is valuable and versatile, and with the right guys around him they believed he could have a positive impact (Plus, he's TP's boy)

To just assume a player might have a negative impact based off some stats, without factoring who he was playing with on the other team, and the other many variables that come in to play , is not the best way to evaluate a player.

btw, there are other articles/bloggers that will have different takes and show how he had a positive impact.

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/5/22/11710456/david-lee-player-review-mavericks-2016

http://www.mavs.com/david-lee-brings-smarts-consistency-rebounding-to-mavs/

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nba/dallas-mavericks/full-court-press-blog/article62848907.html


Whether it's at the 4 or the 5, Lee will get minutes. Guys will have to learn to play together, and whoever the 3 perimeter guys are will need to be able to run the P&R, and spot up and shoot 3's. Lee provides rebounding that the 2nd unit desperately needs, along with other intangibles. He's not going to be going up against Cousins/Griffin's of the league either. He doesn't have the strongest defense, but he is 1 of the more skilled/hard working bigs we have. And Pop is certainly going to utilize him, as well we should. You have to put your best players on the court, and figure out the best combinations to make it work Good post! Look forward to checking out those links. Glad you hit on something very important- PATFO didn't get Lee to go against "Cousins/ Griffins." Lee looks like he's got strength and we will need that from our bigs. He can't shoot like Bertans, but has more upper body strength to bang it out in the post when needed.

[SAGirl]

I'm not saying it may work out great, what I was saying is Lee and Dedmon can work when implemented the right way. You said they couldn't because they aren't good one on one players and they aren't shooters. Spurs wouldn't put them in a position to fail or do the team a disservice by calling 4 down for Lee or telling Lee to spot up on the perimeter. Judging them by aspects that are irrelevant to how they'll be used is just wrong. They will have to be very active, setting good screens for the ball handler, have great timing and be effective when rolling or diving ( which Lee and Dedmon have done well in their past). How effective will it be? That will depend a lot on chemistry and timing between them and the ball handlers in the PNR. It will also depend on how well Bertans or another shooter on the weakside shoots to make the weakside a relevant weapon.

Again, there's no specific type of offensive game of a center. All centers are different. There's no specific criteria or skill-set of the position. Some centers post up, some centers are PNR divers, some are Pn Poppers from long 2, some can shoot 3's, some can't shoot, some can take their man off the dribble, some can't dribble, some can finish inside well, some can't finish inside well. There's different variables on the offensive end for all centers, and all positions -- players are different. It's about skill-sets that best fit around the players they are playing with and which position they defend best.
Lee is not a great screen setter either. We are going in circles, but we also haven't seen enough yet and I will give you and brooklynfan that. It's too early in the season. Many times there hasn't been enough screening to begin with and the very early games of preseason saw guys making a lot of mistakes, the scrimmage by its nature is a loose game. Maybe some shots that I saw from Lee there weren't shots he should have taken to begin with (contested drives over Bertans!) The bench has been ineffective with Lee. They play better with deep bench guys than with Lee. They also TO the ball a lot when Lee plays (and that includes lineups devoid of Anderson). Like I said I have observed it closely enough to see that space being cramped, Lee passing up shots when he's open and guys attempting tough passes after getting stuck bc they intended to do something but Lee's defender was in the way has been a factor.

[ceperez]

Did anyone notice how well Laprovitolla played?

As much as there so much press on Forbes, Lapro is just so much better. He's a really crafty point guard that just knows how to setup his team mates. Anderson got two wide open 3 point shots assisted by Lapro. Lapro even hit 2 3 points on the dribble.

[MaNu4Tres]

Did anyone notice how well Laprovitolla played?

As much as there so much press on Forbes, Lapro is just so much better. He's a really crafty point guard that just knows how to setup his team mates. Anderson got two wide open 3 point shots assisted by Lapro. Lapro even hit 2 3 points on the dribble.

Lapro has impressed me over the past two weeks. I was really skeptical of him having a shot at the roster, but he has succeeded my expecations. He's better than Prigioni and Prigioni carved a good back up PG role in this league at a much older age.

If I was running the team, I'd shop Mills for a 1st rounder. Shop Simmons for a 2nd. Then I'd sign Lapro to a 3-4 year cheap contract to compete with Murray the next two years for the back up PG spot.

I'd then use the last two roster spots and sign Forbes to a 2-3 year cheap deal and flip a coin between Garino, Anthony, or another big that may be better than Anthony that another team may buy out or waive. If the coin doesn't land on Garino, I do everything I can to make him feel like he's on the team and keep his rights in Austin for year. Then bring him over next year with Hanga to compete for minutes at the wing.

Just my thoughts.

[SAGirl]

I don't want to just be argumentative, but a couple of Lee's best seasons were as a straight-up C. He was even listed as a C by the Knicks those last couple of seasons in NY. And in his first couple of seasons with Golden State, he spent most of his minutes as the only player on the court that could possibly be considered a center.

David West had spent a MUCH bigger percentage of his career as a PF than Lee, and he wound up getting stuck in the middle far too much when he came to SA. I think that's why I had such a negative knee-jerk reaction when I read that SA had signed Lee, because I could just see him getting put into a C role the same way as West, and it being just as big of a disaster. I really don't hate Lee as a player, I just him being a fit for a team coached by Pop. I was the same way when Richard Jefferson came here. Decent player - not a great fit.

Right now, Lee is probably the second most skilled C on the roster, behind Gasol. And that means we're likely to see Pop playing him in that role. And I'm afraid he's going to look a lot like West did, defensively. Offensively, I really think Lee will be better than West, even though he gets his points in a different way. Someone here, I forget who, mentioned that it's more important for the bench to be good at putting up points, and there's some truth to that. But against teams that have decent bigs on the bench (who are legitimately big) Lee is probably going to take a beating. Both on the floor, and from fans.

You are probably right.

Again, I am wishing the guy the best bc he's a Spurs and Pop will play him and in Bertans' case it's unknown how he will even hold up for the season. He has been fragile.

But with a few exceptions, a lot of benches don't have 2 bruisers. They will have one, like Memphis, Indiana, etc. that is why you need Dedmon. I still have my concerns on Lee, but maybe it is too early to be sound the red alarm.:bobo

It's not that I changed my mind either. It's that the criticism and the opinion is not incompatible with the general hoping for the best I still believe the team will be better if the younger forwards step up than if they don't and they have to rely on Lee. But you can't take rookies and youngsters for granted so considering that, he's good to have.

[Trill Clinton]

lazy rundown from what i saw:

kyle played pretty good defense on kawhi. he bothered some shots and poked away his dribble a few times(don't know if thats all good defense or kawhi still being sloppy with his handles) but i was impressed with what i saw from slowmo

kawhi looked like he was playing at 75% speed but i won't hold it against him since it was a scrimmage. he was out of place defensively a few times which is rare for him. all in all, he still was effective and the best player on the court.

the new argentenians looked like they always do. garino has great defense and it was good to see him hit from distance, d league. i like nico's game a lot. he has a confidence about him and his crossover is slow but very effective. i hope both guys go to the d league and we keep them around.

dejounte played under control which is what i wanted to see but his handles are just too sloppy for me. he needs to chill with the high dribble and work on his jump shot more. he can attach the basket but struggles to finish, he's skinny asf so that should come with time.

bertans was the surprise of the night. excellent shooting stroke and he lets it go with confidence and no hesitation. he's going to be a problem with the more experience he gets.

[SAGirl]

Did anyone notice how well Laprovitolla played?

As much as there so much press on Forbes, Lapro is just so much better. He's a really crafty point guard that just knows how to setup his team mates. Anderson got two wide open 3 point shots assisted by Lapro. Lapro even hit 2 3 points on the dribble.


Lapro has impressed me over the past two weeks. I was really skeptical of him having a shot at the roster, but he has succeeded my expecations. He's better than Prigioni and Prigioni carved a good back up PG role in this league at a much older age.

I have liked Laprovittola a lot myself too. He has been a good shooter (better than I thought and not afraid to let it fly if they don't contest him after a pick, if they go under.) He's a good passer too. Overall, he has played well.

This one is tough for Pop. Lapro being the more versatile player gives him the edge, but I have liked other guys as well.

[ceperez]

Lapro has impressed me over the past two weeks. I was really skeptical of him having a shot at the roster, but he has succeeded my expecations. He's better than Prigioni and Prigioni carved a good back up PG role in this league at a much older age.

If I was running the team, I'd shop Mills for a 1st rounder. Shop Simmons for a 2nd. Then I'd sign Lapro to a 3-4 year cheap contract to compete with Murray the next two years for the back up PG spot.

I'd then use the last two roster spots and sign Forbes to a 2-3 year cheap deal and flip a coin between Garino, Anthony, or another big that may be better than Anthony that another team may buy out or waive. If the coin doesn't land on Garino, I do everything I can to make him feel like he's on the team and keep his rights in Austin for year. Then bring him over next year with Hanga to compete for minutes at the wing.

Just my thoughts.

The difference between Nico and Patty is that Nico is able to elude his man with craftiness. His ball handling skills are incredible and I really like the way he shoots. Really a damn high arc that he fires of similar to Curry. He still has room to grow. It is obvious that he has a natural feel for the game, the way he changes his speed and sets up his team mates.

I had though Forbes was the 15th man, but after comparing both in the scrimage, Forbes just isn't anywhere near as crafty. Forbes at this stage of his career is a bit one dimensional and there are plenty of one dimensional players out there in the D-league.

I think it is pretty much settled, Lapro is the 15th man. Not only is he the 15th man, he likely will be in the 13 man rotation with Murray, LJC hanging out in the D-league.

[TD 21]

I've said it ad nauseam: Lee is neither a power forward or a center, he's a power forward (defensively) and a center (offensively). Ideally, he'd be paired with a floor spacer/rim protector.

Duncan and Splitter had excellent basketball IQ and chemistry and weren't paired with a sub par shooting small forward, yet even they had to be broken up against the other two elites and the game has further evolved the past few years.

[ceperez]

I have liked Laprovittola a lot myself too. He has been a good shooter (better than I thought and not afraid to let it fly if they don't contest him after a pick, if they go under.) He's a good passer too. Overall, he has played well.

This one is tough for Pop. Lapro being the more versatile player gives him the edge, but I have liked other guys as well.

I disagree that its a tough decision for Pop. It is obvious that Lapro is ready. You can't say the same for Forbes, Arcidiacono and Garino. Anthony is experienced, but there's just no room for him this year.

[SAGirl]

I disagree that its a tough decision for Pop. It is obvious that Lapro is ready. You can't say the same for Forbes, Arcidiacono and Garino. Anthony is experienced, but there's just no room for him this year.

You are probably right. :toast

[wildbill2u]

Spurs have years of experience in hiring over-the-hill, but previously productive, veteran big men just for insurance. Lee will only get minutes under Pop if he can produce enough to put someone else's butt on the bench rotation behind him. One of the advantages/disadvantages of playing for Pop is that he rewards players with minutes based on their value on the court on both offense and defense combined. It isn't always about PPG. If it was, Bruce wouldn't have had much of a career with the Spurs.

Some people always bring up Bonner as an example of Pop playing favorites for keeping him in the rotation and on the team. But if you think about it, as Bonner's productivity declined, so did his minutes and other players moved ahead of him in the rotation. Eventually his contract expired and he was not re-signed. Even TD had his minutes reduced as his productivity dropped.

Personally, I think this system of rewarding productivity and hard work is the cornerstone of the Spur System--if there is such a thing. It gives the young guys a fair shake at moving up and keeps the vets on their toes.

[spurs10]

Spurs have years of experience in hiring over-the-hill, but previously productive, veteran big men just for insurance. Lee will only get minutes under Pop if he can produce enough to put someone else's butt on the bench rotation behind him. One of the advantages/disadvantages of playing for Pop is that he rewards players with minutes based on their value on the court on both offense and defense combined. It isn't always about PPG. If it was, Bruce wouldn't have had much of a career with the Spurs.

Some people always bring up Bonner as an example of Pop playing favorites for keeping him in the rotation and on the team. But if you think about it, as Bonner's productivity declined, so did his minutes and other players moved ahead of him in the rotation. Eventually his contract expired and he was not re-signed. Even TD had his minutes reduced as his productivity dropped.

Personally, I think this system of rewarding productivity and hard work is the cornerstone of the Spur System--if there is such a thing. It gives the young guys a fair shake at moving up and keeps the vets on their toes. Exactly, thanks. You have to ask yourself that question, "Why did Pop sign him?" As you said, "insurance." If he's productive he'll play. When he does play he'll most of the time be playing against the other team's bench. Good signing and has looked motivated in the pre-season. To those saying 'it's too early in the season to judge', I'd say 'before the season starts is indeed too early.' All that being said our bench productivity is really important. Many ways for us to go.

[SAGirl]

Spurs have years of experience in hiring over-the-hill, but previously productive, veteran big men just for insurance. Lee will only get minutes under Pop if he can produce enough to put someone else's butt on the bench rotation behind him. One of the advantages/disadvantages of playing for Pop is that he rewards players with minutes based on their value on the court on both offense and defense combined. It isn't always about PPG. If it was, Bruce wouldn't have had much of a career with the Spurs.

Some people always bring up Bonner as an example of Pop playing favorites for keeping him in the rotation and on the team. But if you think about it, as Bonner's productivity declined, so did his minutes and other players moved ahead of him in the rotation. Eventually his contract expired and he was not re-signed. Even TD had his minutes reduced as his productivity dropped.

Personally, I think this system of rewarding productivity and hard work is the cornerstone of the Spur System--if there is such a thing. It gives the young guys a fair shake at moving up and keeps the vets on their toes.

Thanks for sharing :tu

Very well thought out. Also goes right in line with what Pop said this season: that the players themselves tell him who deserves the minutes with the quality of their play. He was also looking at how guys fit with each other and how they play, and he also said he wasn't looking at any new guys yet for the main rotation, bc he didn't want to form an opinion about someone young learning to play in the league one way or another, when those guys are still evolving and once he gained a perception about somebody, it was hard to change.

What this tells me is that the bench specially will be in a transition with the possibility of younger guys eventually getting ahead if they show they deserve it, so that is encouraging.

[SAGirl]

Exactly, thanks. You have to ask yourself that question, "Why did Pop sign him?" As you said, "insurance." If he's productive he'll play. When he does play he'll most of the time be playing against the other team's bench. Good signing and has looked motivated in the pre-season. To those saying 'it's too early in the season to judge', I'd say 'before the season starts is indeed too early.' All that being said our bench productivity is really important. Many ways for us to go.

My thought still stands that they will suffer from the lack of spacing by Lee, I haven't changed my opinion or my mind about that, but I do think Pop will find out ways for it to work, either by lineups he plays Lee in (I have seen him with both LMA and Pau at times) and what they are running.

I did change my view in that I agree it was too early to proclaim him "cancerous"... we just have to see. I probably felt too strongly about him in a negative fashion after seeing him get owned by Bertans in this scrimmage on both ends.

[spurs10]

My thought still stands that they will suffer from the lack of spacing by Lee, I haven't changed my opinion or my mind about that, but I do think Pop will find out ways for it to work, either by lineups he plays Lee in (I have seen him with both LMA and Pau at times) and what they are running.

I did change my view in that I agree it was too early to proclaim him "cancerous"... we just have to see. I probably felt too strongly about him in a negative fashion after seeing him get owned by Bertans in this scrimmage on both ends.
Thanks for your post. It was only the "cancerous" part that I thought was a bit harsh. My thought has been that Pop is indeed going to be figuring out how to use these different looks we can throw at people. Other than experience, Bertans has been really looking like the real deal- hell of a deal we made for Hill! He is obviously an offensive threat and think he has the potential to be a capable defensive player. It's such a long season and throughout we'll probably see every match up under the sun. Who we see in the playoffs will tell the tale. I won't be surprise to see Bertans out there- 'instant offense.'

[wildbill2u]

My thought still stands that they will suffer from the lack of spacing by Lee, I haven't changed my opinion or my mind about that, but I do think Pop will find out ways for it to work, either by lineups he plays Lee in (I have seen him with both LMA and Pau at times) and what they are running.

I did change my view in that I agree it was too early to proclaim him "cancerous"... we just have to see. I probably felt too strongly about him in a negative fashion after seeing him get owned by Bertans in this scrimmage on both ends.

The question isn't whether he will be in front of Bertans in the rotation. At this point a coach will ususally pencil in a vet with good credentials aheand of a rookie. You have to start somewhere. And trying to decide whether one player is so much better than another this early is tricky. Maybe he is. But I remember Austin Daye with 6 3s in a preseason game and thinking he would be pushing the starters. It never happened and he never shot that well again. I hate to see players get tagged with harsh nicknames and even harsher analysis of their games/skill sets when I want to see all of them be as successful as they can be as members of the Spurs team, even at the far end of the bench.

But then I'm a team fan first and foremost. Not a player fan.

[spurs10]

The question isn't whether he will be in front of Bertans in the rotation. At this point a coach will ususally pencil in a vet with good credentials aheand of a rookie. You have to start somewhere. And trying to decide whether one player is so much better than another this early is tricky. Maybe he is. But I remember Austin Daye with 6 3s in a preseason game and thinking he would be pushing the starters. It never happened and he never shot that well again. I hate to see players get tagged with harsh nicknames and even harsher analysis of their games/skill sets when I want to see all of them be as successful as they can be as members of the Spurs team, even at the far end of the bench.

But then I'm a team fan first and foremost. Not a player fan. :tu

[dabom]

The question isn't whether he will be in front of Bertans in the rotation. At this point a coach will ususally pencil in a vet with good credentials aheand of a rookie. You have to start somewhere. And trying to decide whether one player is so much better than another this early is tricky. Maybe he is. But I remember Austin Daye with 6 3s in a preseason game and thinking he would be pushing the starters. It never happened and he never shot that well again. I hate to see players get tagged with harsh nicknames and even harsher analysis of their games/skill sets when I want to see all of them be as successful as they can be as members of the Spurs team, even at the far end of the bench.

But then I'm a team fan first and foremost. Not a player fan.

[dabom]

:tu

[SAGirl]

The question isn't whether he will be in front of Bertans in the rotation. At this point a coach will ususally pencil in a vet with good credentials aheand of a rookie. You have to start somewhere. And trying to decide whether one player is so much better than another this early is tricky. Maybe he is. But I remember Austin Daye with 6 3s in a preseason game and thinking he would be pushing the starters. It never happened and he never shot that well again. I hate to see players get tagged with harsh nicknames and even harsher analysis of their games/skill sets when I want to see all of them be as successful as they can be as members of the Spurs team, even at the far end of the bench.

But then I'm a team fan first and foremost. Not a player fan.
Oh I agree, I like Bertans but his own shooting spree didn't form my opinion, it did make it too emphatic I admit.

I had expressed concerns about the spacing and Lee himself from b4 this scrimmage and its based on observations from b4 Lee joined the Spurs, and the trends that make it very difficult for teams to score with paint clogging bigs, see for example how Greg Monroe and guys like that are getting devalued.

Seeing what I have seen (I don't want to be repetitive but it's here) hasn't eased up the concerns, in terms of how teams that play Led as a 4 struggle. but again it is early specially about fit since lineups have been all over.

[TD 21]

I'm surprised Aldridge not playing isn't getting more run, especially with the rumors.

Pop's reasoning was flimsy too. Something to the effect of him bringing him along slowly after being honored . . . which took place Friday, while the scrimmage did Tuesday.

[gambit1990]

picture i took:
https://s18.postimg.org/srzwylj2h/IMG_0750.jpg

[tonight...you]

picture i took:
https://s18.postimg.org/srzwylj2h/IMG_0750.jpg
Nice brother!

[spursistan]

picture i took:
https://s18.postimg.org/srzwylj2h/IMG_0750.jpg

telling that Udoka was (baby)sitting next to LMA on an afternoon of "trade rumors" :lol.

[TheDoctor]

picture i took:
https://s18.postimg.org/srzwylj2h/IMG_0750.jpg

Awesomeness!

[SAGirl]

I'm surprised Aldridge not playing isn't getting more run, especially with the rumors.

Pop's reasoning was flimsy too. Something to the effect of him bringing him along slowly after being honored . . . which took place Friday, while the scrimmage did Tuesday.

Agreed. The reason that Pop gave that they were taking it slow with LMA seemed flimsy, fabricated. He still could have played a few minutes and get that rhythm back.

Also, when asked about J.Simms he kind of had a blank stare and was at a loss of words, then said Simms had something. I made something out of it within this thread as soon as I noticed it. I initially thought both were being held out to prevent injuries bc of a possible trade. In LMA case, I had checked online the pictures of the scrimmage in 10/17 and he was absent from there.

But being more realistic, I think Pop wanted to see others in this scrimmage, between guys battling for a roster spot, to those competing for minutes.

But what can you do? It's all a wild speculation right now. I definitely think the timing of the rumors don't make sense, as I pointed elsewhere bc they could have gotten more and gone a different direction with the team if they sought a trade b4 the draft and shaped the roster through FA and trades from there on. They didn't do that, so this rumor right now is ill timed. It's not even like the team is floundering or anything like that. This is all b4 a game has been played to inaugurate the season!

[ceperez]

Awesomeness!

Weird stuff going on. LMA looks like he's in uniform, but didn't play a minute. JSims though look like he's not dressed for the game. Go figure. What's the explanation for LMA not playing?

[tbdog]

Weird stuff going on. LMA looks like he's in uniform, but didn't play a minute. JSims though look like he's not dressed for the game. Go figure. What's the explanation for LMA not playing?

I don't know the basketball reasons. Like why is Leonard playing with the second unit?

[ace3g]

Pop said they wanted to bring LMA back slowly after going to Austin for his HoF induction.

[tonight...you]

I don't know the basketball reasons. Like why is Leonard playing with the second unit?
Like, so Pop can, like, look at, like, different personnel combinations and, like, synergy amongst players and like, stuff and shits?

[SAGirl]

I don't know the basketball reasons. Like why is Leonard playing with the second unit?
I spun my own wild speculation about that. I like to speculate about things like that. Lol
Edit but that was way b4 Jackie Mac broke the story....

[TheDoctor]

I don't know the basketball reasons. Like why is Leonard playing with the second unit?

I always thought that it was to balance things out? Putting him with the 1st unit vs the bench would be a fcking rape tbh.