Kawhi vs LeBron: The 2017 MVP Race Starts

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPmJn5J0iNo

[Arcadian]

Good video. I think this is Kawhi's year.

[TheDoctor]

James Harden :rollin

Luke Walton > Kerr

[apalisoc_9]

Lebron didn't look like he cared too much after it was clear they were winning. If Kawhi wins, it's most likely going to be that reason.

Lebron has the Narrative, the apology votes, the Easy top 2 seeds going for him..He's got a lot more going for him, but it's clear he's accepted a decrease in minutes and usage..at least in the regular season. So we'll see.

Would be sweet to Win the MVP over the guy who has been the best NBA player in the last 10 years.

[Robz4000]

I don't know, if Davis finds a way to win 40 games with that Pelicans roster he should win it by default.

[BatManu20]

Lebron will win it imho. He's the best player on the planet and that team is going to win a ton of games again in the Leastern Conference.

[Mal]

Kawhi worked with Kobe this summer ??

[Spurtacular]

I don't know, if Davis finds a way to win 40 games with that Pelicans roster he should win it by default.

Apalisoc_9 with the AD man crush.

[TrainOfThought5]

Kawhi worked with Kobe this summer ??

No. Kobe worked with Kawhi this summer.

[Em-City]

No. Kobe worked with Kawhi this summer.
:lol

[Spursfanfromafar]

When this forum was thinking what could be Kawhi's ceiling ..during his first or second year .. I had said Scottie Pippen and was laughed at. I found the laughing foolish then, but if there were a few who laughed at the comparison because Kawhi was going to break that ceiling.. he/she must have been prophetic. Kawhi is his own man now and looking for a niche that very few NBA players occupied before. He is clearly among the best wing defenders ever (a la Pippen) but offensively he has progressed into a major machine. Soon, we would be talking of who is the next Kawhi rather than who Kawhi is most like.

[Raven]

I don't know, if Davis finds a way to win 40 games with that Pelicans roster he should win it by default.

don't worry, he wont. They just lost against on of the 3 worst teams in the west with him scoring 50.

[TheDoctor]

The dude just want to win Championships for San Antonio as he stated in the after-game interview. If he wins one+ MVP awards hustling for LOBs so be it.

[resistanze]

LeBron will coast. Kawhi is my pick.

[RLT]

Awesome video! He has come so far.

[PopTheGOAT]

KD, Curry (although not likely imo), Westbrook, LeBron, AD and even Paul George and Lillard are in contention for the MVP. I'd say Westbrook, KD, LeBron and Kawhi are the favorites. If the Spurs can stay on the dubs' heels like last season or even somehow get the 1 seed, Kawhi has a great chance. Voters love to give awards to someone new if given the chance. That's why I think it'll be tough to get another dpoy this season. He'd have to force their hand (if he doesn't win MVP).

[TheDoctor]

KD, Curry (although not likely imo), Westbrook, LeBron, AD and even Paul George and Lillard are in contention for the MVP. I'd say Westbrook, KD, LeBron and Kawhi are the favorites. If the Spurs can stay on the dubs' heels like last season or even somehow get the 1 seed, Kawhi has a great chance. Voters love to give awards to someone new if given the chance. That's why I think it'll be tough to get another dpoy this season. He'd have to force their hand (if he doesn't win MVP).

KD and Curry will bust each other votes.
Favs IMO are:
LBJ
Kawhi
Westbrook (depends on wins)
Harden (depends on wins)

[PopTheGOAT]

KD and Curry will bust each other votes.
Favs IMO are:
LBJ
Kawhi
Westbrook (depends on wins)
Harden (depends on wins)
I agree on KD and Curry kinda taking away from each other. Harden's image has been pretty badly damaged lately because he's been called out for his bad defense. Houston would have to get the 3 or 4 seed for him to have a realistic chance. Losing to LA won't help that.

[TheDoctor]

I agree on KD and Curry kinda taking away from each other. Harden's image has been pretty badly damaged lately because he's been called out for his bad defense. Houston would have to get the 3 or 4 seed for him to have a realistic chance. Losing to LA won't help that.

Harden is worst than Tony at defense, but Curry won B2B MVPs and he's not a defensive presence of any kind. If any of them (Harden/Westbrook) manages to avg nearly a triple-double for the season and their teams win at least 50 games they have a very good shot.

[PopTheGOAT]

Harden is worst than Tony at defense, but Curry won B2B MVPs and he's not a defensive presence of any kind. If any of them (Harden/Westbrook) manages to avg nearly a triple-double for the season and their teams win at least 50 games they have a very good shot. Yeah, Curry isn't a great defender but he was able to mask that liabilty because of great team defense/other good defensive players on the team. Harden doesn't have a team that can mask his poor defense.

P.S. I actually think Harden has the ability to be a good defender, he's just a lazy ass...which is worse, arguably.

[TheDoctor]

Yeah, Curry isn't a great defender but he was able to mask that liabilty because of great team defense/other good defensive players on the team. Harden doesn't have a team that can mask his poor defense.

P.S. I actually think Harden has the ability to be a good defender, he's just a lazy ass...which is worse, arguably.
Yup, I think you're right:toast

[SpursIndonesia]

When this forum was thinking what could be Kawhi's ceiling ..during his first or second year .. I had said Scottie Pippen and was laughed at. I found the laughing foolish then, but if there were a few who laughed at the comparison because Kawhi was going to break that ceiling.. he/she must have been prophetic. Kawhi is his own man now and looking for a niche that very few NBA players occupied before. He is clearly among the best wing defenders ever (a la Pippen) but offensively he has progressed into a major machine. Soon, we would be talking of who is the next Kawhi rather than who Kawhi is most like.

Pippen's defense, Kobe's offense, and Duncan's demeanor & leadership, talking about a totally complete franchise player package.

[james evans]

KD and Curry will bust each other votes.
Favs IMO are:
LBJ
Kawhi
Westbrook (depends on wins)
Harden (depends on wins)
you can take harden's name off the list. Houston will struggle to make the playoffs

[GSH]

One key to the whole thing:

LeBron has averaged about 8 FTA/36 mintues. His first two MVP seasons, he averaged about 9. It's an important stat - not just for the voting, but because it has a lot to do with how effective the player is on a night-in, night-out basis. If Kawhi can keep getting ot the FT line like this, it won't matter much what the other guys do - with the exception of LeBron, and possibly Curry if he gets back to shooting like a cartoon hero.

The MVP voting loves offense. They aren't going to want to hand out a DPOY three-peat, just because it's boring. If the Spurs' overall record is good, I think he has a shot. If not, I think they will give the nod to LeBron, as a makeup call for the Cavs ending GSW in the playoffs last year.

I'm taking a position early in the season. If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow. Watch the FTA/36. If Kawhi is above 8, he's going to be the winner, or a close second.

[Cry Havoc]

KD and Curry will bust each other votes.
Favs IMO are:
LBJ
Kawhi
Westbrook (depends on wins)
Harden (depends on wins)

Lillard HAS to be in the conversation. Portland made the 2nd round last year after they were supposed to have the 28th best team on paper. Lillard is a beast and he's going to have free reign this year.

[Cry Havoc]

you can take harden's name off the list. Houston will struggle to make the playoffs

In this West? Where Utah is supposed to win 50 games?

Houston will make it fine. There are a ton of terrible teams in the West.

Kings
Nuggets
Mavs
Suns
Lakers

Most likely have 0 chance.

Then you have Portland OKC and the Pelis who are going to be fringe playoff teams anyway, but Lillard and Westbrook could keep them into the >45 win category.

Houston should easily get 50 wins this year.

[james evans]

I dont think Houston "easily' makes it. Howard was no offensive threat, but he changed a lot of shots. Capela is no Pau Gasol on defense, but he's no Howard either.

[GSH]

Lillard HAS to be in the conversation. Portland made the 2nd round last year after they were supposed to have the 28th best team on paper. Lillard is a beast and he's going to have free reign this year.


Lillard is good. Damn good. But he's a small guy, and basketball is still a bigger man's game. Usually if a small guy wins it, you understand why. I guess if Derrick Rose could win it, Lillard could too. But that had a lot to do with not wanting to give LeBron a 3-peat as MVP. (Ultimately, it would have been a 5-peat.) The year Rose won it, they had Dwight Howard second, and everyone knew he wasn't the league MVP. I think Kawhi would give them every excuse they need not to pick a PG as MVP.

Not dissing Lillard a bit, nor your point. But If I'm starting a team, give me a big(ger) guy every time.

[Spurtacular]

When this forum was thinking what could be Kawhi's ceiling ..during his first or second year .. I had said Scottie Pippen and was laughed at. I found the laughing foolish then, but if there were a few who laughed at the comparison because Kawhi was going to break that ceiling.. he/she must have been prophetic. Kawhi is his own man now and looking for a niche that very few NBA players occupied before. He is clearly among the best wing defenders ever (a la Pippen) but offensively he has progressed into a major machine. Soon, we would be talking of who is the next Kawhi rather than who Kawhi is most like.

I wasn't on this forum at the time; but as a Jimmer follower, I was well familiar with Kawhi (a fellow MWC player); and I told people that he might be the most talented player in the draft. Trolls like apalisoc_9 who trashed him and then put chips on him later will try to say he was ahead of the curve.

[sasaint]

In this West? Where Utah is supposed to win 50 games?

Houston will make it fine. There are a ton of terrible teams in the West.

Kings
Nuggets
Mavs
Suns
Lakers

Most likely have 0 chance.

Then you have Portland OKC and the Pelis who are going to be fringe playoff teams anyway, but Lillard and Westbrook could keep them into the >45 win category.

Houston should easily get 50 wins this year.

Pels will be down there with Suns. Then Lakers and Sactown. Mavs and Nuggets will be much better than those bottom-dwellers and may challenge for eighth place. With a complete make-over Houston is a big question mark in my book. They did not look good against the Lakers last night, though.

[sasaint]

Lillard is good. Damn good. But he's a small guy, and basketball is still a bigger man's game. Usually if a small guy wins it, you understand why. I guess if Derrick Rose could win it, Lillard could too. But that had a lot to do with not wanting to give LeBron a 3-peat as MVP. (Ultimately, it would have been a 5-peat.) The year Rose won it, they had Dwight Howard second, and everyone knew he wasn't the league MVP. I think Kawhi would give them every excuse they need not to pick a PG as MVP.

Not dissing Lillard a bit, nor your point. But If I'm starting a team, give me a big(ger) guy every time.

MVP voters love the traditional stats. Without having to share the ball (and limelight) with Durant, Westbrook may average close to a triple double. He is one of my favorites.

[Spurtacular]

Kawhi averaging 32.5 ppg after the first two games.

[Obstructed_View]

When this forum was thinking what could be Kawhi's ceiling ..during his first or second year .. I had said Scottie Pippen and was laughed at. I found the laughing foolish then, but if there were a few who laughed at the comparison because Kawhi was going to break that ceiling.. he/she must have been prophetic. Kawhi is his own man now and looking for a niche that very few NBA players occupied before. He is clearly among the best wing defenders ever (a la Pippen) but offensively he has progressed into a major machine. Soon, we would be talking of who is the next Kawhi rather than who Kawhi is most like.

I probably laughed at you, and not because I thought Kawhi was going to be better than that. I imagined him being Bruce Bowen with elite rebounding skills for his size, and thought that was probably too optimistic. I can't think of the last player who came out of college with so little fanfare and became this good. I'm not sure anyone ever has. Ever. The lowest drafted MVP in NBA history was Steve Nash, who didn't deserve either of his awards and didn't have to learn how to dribble and shoot after he entered the league.

[Spurtacular]

I probably laughed at you, and not because I thought Kawhi was going to be better than that. I imagined him being Bruce Bowen with elite rebounding skills for his size, and thought that was probably too optimistic. I can't think of the last player who came out of college with so little fanfare and became this good. I'm not sure anyone ever has. Ever. The lowest drafted MVP in NBA history was Steve Nash, who didn't deserve either of his awards and didn't have to learn how to dribble and shoot after he entered the league.

He was a good shooter from the elbow in college (despite overblown reports of how bad his shot allegedly was). I knew he could be a solid contributor in the various facets.

[Obstructed_View]

He was a good shooter from the elbow in college (despite overblown reports of how bad his shot allegedly was). I knew he could be a solid contributor in the various facets.

You are correct that he was a good shooter. ESPN did a sports science thing on Kawhi before the draft, and he shot great when they had him in the studio. It pointed out that his mechanics were poor when he was in college. So you're right that he was working on his shooting even then. But going from a 10-15 foot shooter to NBA three point range is one thing, and he became completely fucking elite at it. Hell, he was a 74 percent free throw shooter in college! And his ball handling improvement is even more mind-boggling than his shooting. Now he's adding getting to the line to his game, and he's facilitating. It's insane.

To be fair, "solid contributor" is a completely reasonable take, but it's miles from being the second or third best player in the NBA. Again, kudos to guys who predicted he'd be this good, but I really don't think there was any real logic behind it, because nobody has ever improved this much.

[Spurtacular]

You are correct that he was a good shooter. ESPN did a sports science thing on Kawhi before the draft, and he shot great when they had him in the studio. It pointed out that his mechanics were poor when he was in college. So you're right that he was working on his shooting even then. But going from a 10-15 foot shooter to NBA three point range is one thing, and he became completely fucking elite at it. Hell, he was a 74 percent free throw shooter in college! And his ball handling improvement is even more mind-boggling than his shooting. Now he's adding getting to the line to his game, and he's facilitating. It's insane.

To be fair, "solid contributor" is a completely reasonable take, but it's miles from being the second or third best player in the NBA. Again, kudos to guys who predicted he'd be this good, but I really don't think there was any real logic behind it, because nobody has ever improved this much.

Well, he'd shoot the 17 to 19 footers from the elbow as a weapon. That was the place where SDSU would get him the ball to score. I can't say I had Kawhi pegged as an MVP candidate (or MVP). But I saw the scoring potential and knew he was a great rebounder for a small forward. Like I say, I considered him top three in the draft and possibly the best. I was bewildered that most "experts" had him eight to fifteen on their lists. It made me second guess my judgment of talent, tbh. But given that, I can't say I was surprised that Kawhi hit all-star level. I can't say I had called his defensive prowess. SDSU didn't even consider him among the top three defenders on their own team.

[Kawhitstorm]

I don't know, if Davis finds a way to win 40 games with that Pelicans roster he should win it by default.

He should have a boarderline All-Star point-guard when Jrue returns otherwise KG used to make the postseason w/ Wally Szczerbiak & didn't get an MVP until the Wolves won 58 w/ old ass Cassell/Sprewell.

[Robz4000]

He should have a boarderline All-Star point-guard when Jrue returns otherwise KG used to make the postseason w/ Wally Szczerbiak & didn't get an MVP until the Wolves won 58 w/ old ass Cassell/Sprewell.

>When Jrue returns
Might not be until halfway through the season. Until then his second best player is fucking Lance Stephenson or Langston "Porker slayer" Galloway. KG didn't have stacked rosters when he took them to the playoffs but they were never this bad.

[TampaDude]

Should be an interesting race. Hopefully, they'll meet in the Finals, too. That would be one for the ages. :hat

[hater]

Lebron already won 2016-17 MVP
Kawhi is a good chance for 2nd place

[Kawhitstorm]

KG didn't have stacked rosters when he took them to the playoffs but they were never this bad.

In '04-'05, he led the league in PER/WS/VORP/BPM/Rebs & finished 11th in MVP voting b/c they "only won 44 games" as Cassell was injured & Sprewell was washed up. Fred Hoiberg was 3rd in win-shares on that squad::lol

Davis isn't finishing top 5 let alone winning the MVP if the Pelicans win 41 games unless that's good enough to make the playoffs.

As far as non-playoff teams, KG had Ricky Davis as his wingman during his last season w/ the Wolves.:lol: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2007.html#all_roster

(http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2007.html#all_roster)

[NameLess Scrub]

The dude just want to win Championships for San Antonio as he stated in the after-game interview. If he wins one+ MVP awards hustling for LOBs so be it.

Basically this.

Not ready to declare Kawhi MVP yet. We should if he can this scoring up while getting wins for the team.
All that while not getting burned out trying to chase an individual award.

I hope he wins it, but under all the right circumstances.

[NameLess Scrub]

LeBron will coast. Kawhi is my pick.

Lebron coasting won't matter imho as long as he's Lebron and nobody takes it from his hands.
Which Kawhi has some chance to do, given that Curry/KD will get penalized for having a super team.
But only if he can give the voters a reason, like a top 2 seed and ~25 ppg, imo.

[NameLess Scrub]

Lillard is good. Damn good. But he's a small guy, and basketball is still a bigger man's game. Usually if a small guy wins it, you understand why. I guess if Derrick Rose could win it, Lillard could too. But that had a lot to do with not wanting to give LeBron a 3-peat as MVP. (Ultimately, it would have been a 5-peat.) The year Rose won it, they had Dwight Howard second, and everyone knew he wasn't the league MVP. I think Kawhi would give them every excuse they need not to pick a PG as MVP.

Not dissing Lillard a bit, nor your point. But If I'm starting a team, give me a big(ger) guy every time.

Howard should've won in 2011. Rose was kinda riding Thibs success in his rookie season as HC.

[el contusione]

:tu

:claw

[Spurtacular]

If 20 on 50 FG is a slow night for Kawhi, I'll take that.

[skin27]

i think kawhi will have a hard time to win the MVP because of playing time!!:lol

[PopTheGOAT]

This article :lmao The cavs announcers blowing that pass up like it wasn't a set play that they STOLE from the Spurs:lmao
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/10/lebron-james-baseline-pass-nba-cleveland-cavaliers
Then Lebron saying "only one guy in the world can make that pass" :rolleyes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5sp6kKSz1s