Dedmon and Lee

[MaNu4Tres]

They can't play together they said...

But Lee played center for the Knicks 8 years ago they said...

Spurs needed these effective rollers last year. So good to see.

[spurraider21]

:lmao david lee a center... can't remember who's take that was

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

David Lee was horrible in the preseason. But you can tell he is listening to Pop and sticking w/ his D. These two games are the best Defense I have ever seen Lee play. Cherry on the Top is Dedmon and his Ben Wallace like performances thus far.

[Mnky]

I was ecstatic for both. People were complaining about the Lee signing, I was jumping for joy. Guy us just a blue collar player that does all the little things, never stops playing. Isn't great at anyone thing, but great at being good to decent at everything.

Dedmon is athletic enough to move out n the perimeter for switching and a good defender and court running big to pair with the running second unit. I get excited to see the second unit come out now. Can't remember that for awhile.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

What's the opposite of the turd towers? The towers of God

[Ditty]

They are both so good together.

:lol Over reacting in the pre season

[HarlemHeat37]

I've been on the Dedmon bandwagon since May, he was the only FA I wanted IIRC..

David Lee has always been a great regular season stat-padder, though..won't get excited about him until he provides some goods in May, tbh(although obviously he's better suited vs. bench players, so he could continue thriving)

[timtonymanu]

Definitely better than the Turd Towers from last season

[jiggy_55]

Dedmon and Lee with huge performances tonight! Dedmon absolutely fantastic activity, defense, and hustle

[Solid D]

Dedmon has played fantastic vs the Kings.

[Obstructed_View]

I've been on the Dedmon bandwagon since May, he was the only FA I wanted IIRC..

David Lee has always been a great regular season stat-padder, though..won't get excited about him until he provides some goods in May, tbh(although obviously he's better suited vs. bench players, so he could continue thriving)

In his defense, he's always been a guy who shows up ready to play and plays as hard as he can every second he's on the floor. When you're on shitty teams, that means a lot of garbage time with people who don't care. Hopefully there will be less of that with the Spurs.

[Solid D]

Dedmon channeling David Robinson.

[DarrinS]

Dedmon has played fantastic vs the Kings.

I thought so, too, tbh.

[YGWHI]

Definitely better than the Turd Towers from last season

Agree. I was so skeptical about Dedmon and Lee working together on the court that I expected a new version of Turd Towers but they're looking great...Blocks, rebounding, some scoring :toast

[Mnky]

In his defense, he's always been a guy who shows up ready to play and plays as hard as he can every second he's on the floor. When you're on shitty teams, that means a lot of garbage time with people who don't care. Hopefully there will be less of that with the Spurs.

Agreed. Cat just plays hard. He's definitely not a stat padded. High IQ, high motor.

[siraulo23]

Its shocking how well theyve played, lee especially. Lee still got a little bit left in the tank

Spurs need that starting lineup to click, and bertans to crack the rotation would be amazing

[TheDoctor]

If they develop a nice chemistry playing together they gonna eat alive other teams 2nd units

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

They should be nicked name the Double D (Dwayne/David) towers. Because game their game is great to watch and they are busting up opposing offenses and putting the letter D in defense twofold.

[Nathan89]

Both are better additions than Pau at the moment.

[MaNu4Tres]

If they develop a nice chemistry playing together they gonna eat alive other teams 2nd units

But theyre both centers.

Its impossible.

I mean, remember when the ST people said Splitter & Duncan couldnt play together back in 11'? Because they were both "centers"? Absolutely must have a true spread the floor big next to one.

[From Downtown]

They were both fantastic vs the Kings, played hard, rebounded, scored efficiently
Lee is just a smart guy who knows how to play and brings it every night, and has the chance to hide his defensive problems by playing vs opposing benches and in the Spurs defensive system
Dedmon is just the athletic big we've been missing for a couple of years
P'n'r with Manu was fun to watch, hope we get more of that

[TheDoctor]

But theyre both centers.

Its impossible.

I mean, remember when the ST people said Splitter & Duncan couldnt play together back in 11'? Because they were both "centers"? Absolutely must have a true spread the floor big next to one.

:lol:tu

[DJR210]

Dedmon has looked really good on both ends of the floor.. Unlike some of the other project big men the Spurs have put out there, he didn't try to do too much. He played solid D around the rim, his length and timing helped him get some tough rebounds, and when he got the ball down low he knew what to do with it.. He seems to have good chemistry w/ Manu already, I expect to see him on the receiving end of some Manu lobs a lot more as they get more familiar w/ each other.

[boutons_deux]

wanted for their defense, but scored 12 each, both outscoring 3 of the starters

[picnroll]

Dedmon so far is the big Spurs haven't had since Robinson. Extremely mobile big that can go out on the floor and cover smalls and get back to the paint. He makes up for a lot of the others defensive lapses. He's the guy Mahinmi and LJC we're supposed to be. If he keeps it up he puts the Spurs solidly in the race with GS and the Cavs for the title. The missing piece.

[313]

David Lee has always been a great regular season stat-padder, though..won't get excited about him until he provides some goods in May, tbh(although obviously he's better suited vs. bench players, so he could continue thriving)tbf he's usually injured by May :lol

[Chinook]

But Lee played center for the Knicks 8 years ago they said...

And played it last year during his resurgence. And played it almost all pre-season. And played it last night. But nah, let's act like a game against a team that plays Cousins at PF is a testament to Lee's ability to play the four...

Don't get me wrong. Lee and Dedmon played together very well, and I totally hope that continues. But nothing so far dispels the notion that Lee is a center. Just like Tim and Tiago were centers. And when they couldn't get away with having two centers, they didn't. Same thing will happen here. And that's when Bertans time will begin.

[MaNu4Tres]

And played it last year during his resurgence. And played it almost all pre-season. And played it last night. But nah, let's act like a game against a team that plays Cousins at PF is a testament to Lee's ability to play the four...

Don't get me wrong. Lee and Dedmon played together very well, and I totally hope that continues. But nothing so far dispels the notion that Lee is a center. Just like Tim and Tiago were centers. And when they couldn't get away with having two centers, they didn't. Same thing will happen here. And that's when Bertans time will begin.

Cute back pedaling.

Truth is, Lees played PF majority of his career.

Spurs brought him in to be the back up PF, but truth is, posts are posts and wings are wings -- C/PF or SF/SG they're interchangeable. As long as they matchup on defense, and as long as their skill-sets blend well with the others around them, then everything's' peachy.

I don't know why people claim that there's a certain offensive skillset of a position. Players come in all shapes and sizes, as well as all different strengths weaknesses and skill sets. It's about who they can defend, and how well their strengths can blend with the players around them.

Ive said numerous times that Dedmon/Lee can work together just fine. And I elaborated countless times on why that is.

[picnroll]

Calling someone a center and someone a PF between Lee and Dedmon is pointless. On offense Lee plays more of a PF role and Dedmon plays a roll to the basket and around the basket garbage man. On defense Dedmon plays the more talented big, particularly if he's agile and can go out on the floor.

[Mr. Body]

I was super dubious about Lee's signing and am happy to see him contribute early.

[Chinook]

Cute back pedaling.

Nah, if you recall, I did argue that they could play together if they had chemistry but that it wasn't ideal. I'm just annoyed at the ST patented move of acting like one game proves anything either way. It's not any more legit to cite this good game than it was to cite the bad preseason games.


Truth is, Lees played PF majority of his career.

And Tim was a PF for most of his. Didn't stop him from being a center once his PF skills left him.


Spurs brought him in to be the back up PF.

That's completely arbitrary. Dedmon plays more PF than Lee does.


And even if Lee had a skill set of a center -- theres no certain offensive skill set of a position.

Yes, there is. That's why Blair was an undersized center rather that a two-guard with a center's game.


Players come in all shapes and sizes, as well as all different strengths weaknesses and skill sets.

This is true, but your extension is completely arbitrary. Because by that logic, we have no idea what position Lee has been playing. He could've just been a 6-9 PG this whole time. Sure, he has the size of a forward and game of a center, but that's all fluid, right?


Ive said numerous times that they can work togethet just fine and elaborated countless times on why that is.

And I didn't disagree with you in the sense that they CAN work -- we both agreed that SAG's comments were extreme. But I think ignoring that they can't ALWAYS work just like Duncan and Splitter didn't ALWAYS work is where we differ. They won't be able to get away with it all the time. And in fact, last night, Lee was benched when the Kings stopped playing three centers and played Tolliver more minutes.

[DesignatedT]

Lee > West. All that matters all we could afford tbh.

[MaNu4Tres]

Nah, if you recall, I did argue that they could play together if they had chemistry but that it wasn't ideal. I'm just annoyed at the ST patented move of acting like one game proves anything either way. It's not any more legit to cite this good game than it was to cite the bad preseason games.

Okay, I'll bump this at the end of every month then. Just to keep reminding you and your daughter SAG.





And Tim was a PF for most of his. Didn't stop him from being a center once his PF skills left him.

As I said before, in the part you didn't include ( of course). Posts are posts, wings are wings. Bigs or posts are interchangeable and SF/ SGs are interchangeable. There's a way two rollers can work together and still provide spacing and there's a way a roller and a spread the floor shooting big can work together. There's not just one way for bigs to work together offensively. Fan boys love labels though to define a player, they'll yell and scream, " but but Lee's a center". Well for one, it doesn't matter.. labels are pointless, bigs are bigs, wings are wings. Secondly, even if labels were relevant, Lee has been labeled a PF majority of his career.




That's completely arbitrary. Dedmon plays more PF than Lee does.

Now you're being ridiculous. Dedmon closed the game in what you would call the center position next to Aldridge. Not that it matters, as long as they matched up well defensively and as long as his skill-set fits well w/ the players around him -- that's what matters.



Yes, there is. That's why Blair was an undersized center rather that a two-guard with a center's game.

Once again, you're stretching what I say so far out to the point to where you're making absolutely no sense. What I said was posts are interchangeable, and wings are interchangeable -- they're separate.




This is true, but your extension is completely arbitrary. Because by that logic, we have no idea what position Lee has been playing. He could've just been a 6-9 PG this whole time. Sure, he has the size of a forward and game of a center, but that's all fluid, right?

Again, you're stretching things so far out it makes me believe you're either trolling or you're just ridiculous. Lee wouldn't fit as a creator or shooter on the perimeter as a wing or "PG". He's a rolling big offensively, that's where his strengths are. And even w/ Dedmon, his skill-set can still work just fine. Centers/ Power Forwards are bigs or posts -- they're interchangeable. That does not mean I'm saying they can play out on the wing as a PG, SG or SF. Get that through your thick skull.


My whole argument was centered around how Dedmon and Lee CAN work together w/ their skill-sets. It had nothing to do with what position they are labeled as. But so many, including your daughter SAG, continued, " but Lee is a center."

Have a fun all day on here. I got to get to work.

Money isn't made posting all day about the Spurs.

[ginobilized]

Lee and Dedmon look great, no doubt. The scrappiness, talent and and cohesion the 2nd unit has shown this early is extremely promising. Manu really sets the tone and that unit seems to match his frenetic intensity. I'm shocked by the level of chemistry in game two. Only 80 more to go to get the starters dialed in.

[TampaDude]

Lee and Dedmon look great, no doubt. The scrappiness, talent and and cohesion the 2nd unit has shown this early is extremely promising. Manu really sets the tone and that unit seems to match his frenetic intensity. I'm shocked by the level of chemistry in game two. Only 80 more to go to get the starters dialed in.

:lol

[Chinook]

Okay, I'll bump this at the end of every month then. Just to keep reminding you and your daughter SAG.
SAGirl (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49524) and I are the same age, IIRC. Anyway, the point is that it's petty to bump threads to try to laugh at people for takes, or takes that are wrong or takes that look wrong from certain perspectives. There's no reason to act high and mighty about a damned game. And I said this in 2013 when people were bumping Green threads to laugh at haters when I spent the whole season defending Danny stronger than SAG defends Anderson. It's like, just chill and enjoy the season without trying to keep tabs on what other people say in idle chat.


As I said before, in the part you didn't include ( of course).

You know damned well you added that in an edit. I'd've included that part and replied to it had it been there.


Posts are posts, wings are wings. Bigs or posts are interchangeable and SF/ SGs are interchangeable. There's a way two rollers can work together and still provide spacing and there's a way a roller and a spread the floor shooting big can work together. There's not just one way for bigs to work together offensively. Fan boys love labels though to define a player, they'll yell and scream, " but but Lee's a center". Well for one, it doesn't matter.. labels are pointless, bigs are bigs, wings are wings. Secondly, even if labels were relevant, Lee has been labeled a PF majority of his career.

There's nothing particularly wrong with this explanation. And I don't disagree that they can play together against a lot of teams. But just as there are multiple ways to employ bigs on offense, there are different ways to defend them. You take away the roll-man, you clog the lane. If you don't allow the pass, you can't get the big-to-big assists that make a combo like Splitter/Duncan work. And none of this mentions that Lee's mobility defensively is atrocious and Dedmon's mobility is somewhat wasted if he has to play on the perimeter rather than protecting the paint.


Now you're being ridiculous. Dedmon closed the game in what you would call the center position next to Aldridge. Not that it matters, as long as they matched up well defensively and as long as his skill-set fits well w/ the players around him -- that's what matters.

Yes, but when they played together, there's no way you can call Lee the PF. Dedmon guarded PFs, provided weakside help and spaced the floor. Lee's only argument is that he was shorter.


Once again, you're stretching what I say so far out to the point to where you're making absolutely no sense. What I said was posts are interchangeable, and wings are interchangeable -- they're separate.

No you didn't. You edited your post afterward because you realized what you really had said was silly. I know you didn't mean it that way, but the way you meant it was arbitrary. You had no other justification for it other than it just being what you believed. And that's fine except your beliefs aren't evidence. In so far as positions mean anything, they are directly related to your skill-set and on-court actions. Can you call Lebron a PG? In a lot of sets you can. Can you call Rudy Gay a PG? No, not really.


Again, you're stretching things so far out it makes me believe you're either trolling or you're just ridiculous. Lee wouldn't fit as a creator or shooter on the perimeter as a wing or "PG". He's a rolling big offensively, that's where his strengths are. And even w/ Dedmon, his skill-set can still work just fine. Centers/ Power Forwards are bigs or posts -- they're interchangeable. That does not mean I'm saying they can play out on the wing as a PG, SG or SF. Get that through your thick skull.

First, once again stop acting like I was responding to your edited post. That's so intellectually dishonest that it's sickening. Secondly, no, there isn't the clear distinction between positions like you want there to be. PFs are not all posts, hence why we're trying to figure out what Anderson and Bertans are. And it's not like wings are guards don't have their own crossovers and separatists. A player's ability to move between your groups is determined by their skill-set. Kyle could never be a dominant roll-man. But he could probably do all right in the dunker role. And yet, he has been on the wing for the past few games after spending most of the preseason at PF. And of course, he was a PG in college. Wade actually played at PF (in the dunker role) for many Miami plays in 2014. He also played PG and even some wing, though not as much as his position would suggest since they started Lewis.

The actual point is that you came out with a thread trying to brag about something that only one person was arguing with you about. And you're claiming victory (and being obnoxious about it) TWO games into the season. Do you want to be right about this so badly?

[GSH]

:lmao david lee a center... can't remember who's take that was


I don't think he's a center, but I know for a damned fact that he's spent a fair amount of time in his career playing the C. You can argue or laugh all you want to, but that doesn't change the facts. David West had spent almost 100% of his playing minutes at PF, but when he came here he got stuck playing center. Lee had spent quite a bit of time at center, so I'm one of the people who was worried that Pop would use him the same way he did West. Whether Lee is a center or not, he could sure as hell be put into that role.

After watching Dedmon in the pre-season, I was feeling pretty sure that Pop would put Lee in the middle this year. After the way Dedmon has stepped up these first couple of games, that's not going to happen. But, for the record, Lee has the skills to play the C. He just doesn't have the height.

[MaNu4Tres]

[B][URL="http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49524"]



No you didn't. You edited your post afterward because you realized what you really had said was silly. I know you didn't mean it that way, but the way you meant it was arbitrary. You had no other justification for it other than it just being what you believed. And that's fine except your beliefs aren't evidence. In so far as positions mean anything, they are directly related to your skill-set and on-court actions. Can you call Lebron a PG? In a lot of sets you can. Can you call Rudy Gay a PG? No, not really.


I edited it before you responded.

Maybe if you weren't so obsessed with the role as ST ego cop, you would have seen the edits before you responded. But no you have to respond to everything within 5 minutes everyday, all day.

[Chinook]

I edited it before you responded.

Maybe if you weren't so obsessed with the role as ST ego cop, you would have seen the edits before you responded. But no you have to respond to everything within 5 minutes everyday, all day.

You edited before I hit send, but not before I quoted you.

I'm sorry that I replied too fast? If you catch me at this time of day, I'm doing nothing but sitting at my work computer checking on assignments for the day. So I have a lot of free time. You reply at like five or six in the evening, I'm probably asleep or running errands prior to staying up to watch a game. Them's just the breaks.

In any event, when you know you edited your post to add something, and it's not in the person's reply, it makes no sense to assume that they specifically took that edited part out just to troll you. You've been around way too long to seriously think that.

[Spurtacular]

But theyre both centers.

Its impossible.

I mean, remember when the ST people said Splitter & Duncan couldnt play together back in 11'? Because they were both "centers"? Absolutely must have a true spread the floor big next to one.

I don't; but those people are idiots who know nothing about Duncan/Oberto.

[100%duncan]

Lee > West. All that matters all we could afford tbh.

Honestly feels good that we have 2 bench bigs who are looking solid.

[Thunder1]

I was pleasantly surprised, as well...wonder how Dedmon will do against Davis this Saturday?...

[mo7888]

They have looked great together so far. The fact is that they are both centers...and yes, post players are interchangeable depending on the line-up you're up against. There will be nights that you can't play them together because of the defensive match-up presented. In those cases you adjust....maybe it's Bertans that gets the nod...maybe KA.... it doesn't matter. What matters is we have options and the players to adjust to most any match-up teams can throw against us.

[apalisoc_9]

Wait, someone actually wanted to play Lee as a center? Specially in a lineup with Dedmon-Aldridge-Pau..Give me some of that weed..

Only reason why Lee played Center last year was because Mejri was an unkown and Powell was severly limited.

[Leetonidas]

I was pretty skeptical about these two but I like what I've seen so far. Lee is good around the basket and he fights for rebounds and Dedmon has done everything we could've hoped in these first two games. So far they are looking like a huge upgrade over 2016 Bobo and D-Worst

[rjv]

all i know is thank goodness the spurs organization actually knows and understands basketball in a way spurstalk clearly does not.

[GSH]

Wait, someone actually wanted to play Lee as a center? Specially in a lineup with Dedmon-Aldridge-Pau..Give me some of that weed..

Only reason why Lee played Center last year was because Mejri was an unkown and Powell was severly limited.


WTF are you yapping about? Who here said that they WANTED Lee as a center? Why do you two always argue about shit nobody said?

You sort of proved the point, though. Lee played center last year, because they didn't have anyone better. And if Dedmon had continued to look as bad as he did in preseason, the Spurs would be in the same situation. Just like they were with West last year.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Nice little write up on Lee - dude's going to be a nice fit.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/david-lee-sacrifice-and-success

[Chinook]

Nice little write up on Lee - dude's going to be a nice fit.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/david-lee-sacrifice-and-success

Indeed, people made too much of him not fitting the culture. Between Dedmon and Lee, we're starting to see the team get back what they lost with Splitter's departure. If you could combine Lee's finishing and offensive savvy with Dedmon's athleticism and defensive timing, you'd get a top-10 big. As it is the Spurs are hopefully going to get a top-five reserve front court.

[JR3]

The way dedmon moves on the court reminds me of David Robinson... just saying... don't take it as a full comparison...

[TheDoctor]

The way dedmon moves on the court reminds me of David Robinson... just saying... don't take it as a full comparison...

Yeah, the way they step-in to the court coming off the bench is pretty similar :toast

[SAGirl]

This is silly about ppl making conclusions based on one game... just like it was silly of me to exaggerate. But they had look abysmal in preseason together, specially Dedmon who had been the most concerning player in all preseason bc he had looked nothing like this and we had high expectations for him. There were games in preseason he came out with a ton of TO, PF and 0 rebounds, so let's not pretend that statements made at the time were not the result of observations that reflected the then current situation. There was a game with precisely this bench lineup that Simmons consistently tried to get into the paint and ended up forcing things and ended up with 5 TO, as passing lanes were closed, or easy to read, and he passed to ppl who were not open thus TO.

I thought the spacing was not ideal for a player like him who likes to drive. Manu himself was quite inefficient in preseason and I saw him too try to drive to be met by Dedmon and Lee's men at the rim and have no space for a clean pass either bc they were all crammed in the paint forcing tough floaters. I saw the same from Dijon, etc. My observations were a reflection of the then current sitaution.

Simmons and the crew have likely looked at film and adjusted what they are doing. But perhaps the most significant change is Dedmon himself playing a lot better than he did his first preseason games. And I don't root for guys to play bad just to prove my points right. I think that is where I differ from a lot of guys here. I don't care if I am wrong bc guys are playing well that I thought wouldn't fit together.

I am 27 currently, I don't think Chinook is aged enough to be my papa. lol I think guys get the sense sometimes he's older than he really is, I am guessing. I respect his opinion same as others here. Ther are a lot of quality posters I like. Even some guys who tend to be arrogant pricks sometimes show some insightful posts, they are just arrogant pricks and I treat them or ignore them accordingly.

I don't pick fights with guys at all, guys pick on me in here. Chinook doesn't. He's actually quite respectful to most ppl, and he has his own opinions, same as many other quality posters who contribute here and who I respect and like to read to but I am not their daughter.

[DrSteffo]

I don't know if SaGirl is Chinook's troll or if they just happen to have equally bad takes and always agree on their bad takes. It does not really matter since there are still some decent posters here.

[Chinook]

I don't know if SaGirl is Chinook's troll or if they just happen to have equally bad takes and always agree on their bad takes. It does not really matter since there are still some decent posters here.

You up for doing a game grades thread, Doc?

[Chinook]

I am 27 currently, I don't think Chinook is aged enough to be my papa. lol I think guys get the sense sometimes he's older than he really is, I am guessing.

Heh, you're actually older than me by a few months, SAG. I don't turn 27 until next year. Unless some timeloop stuff happens, I think we're safely not father and daughter. I think some people use ST to live out fantasies of the folks they wish they were rather than just being chill and saying what they think. They're too caught up the being part of krews or having cred. It's idiotic.

[DrSteffo]

Thanks for the offer, let me see when I can get the time.

[SAGirl]

Heh, you're actually older than me by a few months, SAG. I don't turn 27 until next year. Unless some timeloop stuff happens, I think we're safely not father and daughter. I think some people use ST to live out fantasies of the folks they wish they were rather than just being chill and saying what they think. They're too caught up the being part of krews or having cred. It's idiotic.Agreed. I have noticed quite a few guys who made some terrible predictions and statements in weeks past as well, but since they were based on observations at the time, and not everyone shares my opinions I'd rather respect guys' takes and move on. What I find annoying is guys actually wanting players in the team to do poorly so they can be proved right. That is the really, really idiotic aspiration, (or .... should I say machismo?). Some times I don't know if that kind of behavior is being immature or just a part of male culture TBH.

[Chinook]

Agreed. I have noticed quite a few guys who made some terrible predictions and statements in weeks past as well, but since they were based on observations at the time, and not everyone shares my opinions I'd rather respect guys' takes and move on. What I find annoying is guys actually wanting players in the team to do poorly so they can be proved right. That is the really, really idiotic aspiration, (or .... should I say machismo?). Some times I don't know if that kind of behavior is being immature or just a part of male culture TBH.

Well, I'm gonna have to get off the bus before we pull into Sexism City, but there are some weird folks on this site. I come to ST because I'm often bored at work or when I wake up too early in the morning. And it's also cool to chat about one of my favorite pastimes with other people who follow it. And through that I'm interacted with some really cool-seeming people. Why it can't just be that for everyone is beyond me.

[Chinook]

Thanks for the offer, let me see when I can get the time.

All right. We're full up through the end of November anyway. But I'll try to make the December thread in a couple of weeks. The most diverse the poster pool, the better.

[SAGirl]

Well, I'm gonna have to get off the bus before we pull into Sexism City, but there are some weird folks on this site. I come to ST because I'm often bored at work or when I wake up too early in the morning. And it's also cool to chat about one of my favorite pastimes with other people who follow it. And through that I'm interacted with some really cool-seeming people. Why it can't just be that for everyone is beyond me.I hate to bring it up... but really being a woman.. I really don't know if the obsession with wanting to be right is really a male thing or just childish behavior. I tend to think is a male thing. If this was an all female forum... oh how different it would be. I'll just leave it there.

[Chinook]

I hate to bring it up... but really being a woman.. I really don't know if the obsession with wanting to be right is really a male thing or just childish behavior. I tend to think is a male thing. If this was an all female forum... oh how different it would be. I'll just leave it there.

That's probably for the best, because I'd vote with my caucus on that one if it came down to it.

[DrSteffo]

Yup, because both of you are always wrong.

[Chinook]

Yup, because both of you are always wrong.

That's impossible, because we're clearly disagreeing in these last couple of posts. Can't both be wrong, can we?

[benefactor]

You people get in the strangest fucking arguments.

[GSH]

I hate to bring it up... but really being a woman.. I really don't know if the obsession with wanting to be right is really a male thing or just childish behavior. I tend to think is a male thing. If this was an all female forum... oh how different it would be. I'll just leave it there.


I don't care what gender you are, what color, nationality, or anything else. I read some of your early comments and decided you know about basketball - probably more about X's an O's than I do. And I told you so.

Your biggest problem here is that you have a favorite player, and you lose objectivity when you try to analyze or talk about him. That's not even the problem, really, because most of us are guilty at times. The problem is that you still think you are being objective, and you write off a lot of criticism as, "That guy is an asshole."

1. Even assholes can have good takes
2. Put a group of people together. ANY group of people. And somebody is going to get picked on.
3. Saying "I get picked on AND I'm a woman" is not the same as "I get picked on BECAUSE I'm a woman".

You go looking for a reason for why you get picked on. You're missing the point. You get picked on because you're here. This is a rough place, and always has been. The fact that you catch shit from people here just means that they treat you just like anyone else.

[benefactor]

I hate to bring it up... but really being a woman.. I really don't know if the obsession with wanting to be right is really a male thing or just childish behavior. I tend to think is a male thing. If this was an all female forum... oh how different it would be. I'll just leave it there.
:lol

Go find you an all female forum or start one then. Seriously...you've been here over a year...and you still haven't figured out this is the asshole of the internet? As GSH said, it has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the fabric of this place.

Hang with enough assholes for long enough and you'll get shit on.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't care what gender you are, what color, nationality, or anything else. I read some of your early comments and decided you know about basketball - probably more about X's an O's than I do. And I told you so.

Your biggest problem here is that you have a favorite player, and you lose objectivity when you try to analyze or talk about him. That's not even the problem, really, because most of us are guilty at times. The problem is that you still think you are being objective, and you write off a lot of criticism as, "That guy is an asshole."

1. Even assholes can have good takes
2. Put a group of people together. ANY group of people. And somebody is going to get picked on.
3. Saying "I get picked on AND I'm a woman" is not the same as "I get picked on BECAUSE I'm a woman".

You go looking for a reason for why you get picked on. You're missing the point. You get picked on because you're here. This is a rough place, and always has been. The fact that you catch shit from people here just means that they treat you just like anyone else.

Nice post, GSH!

I
:smokin

[MaNu4Tres]

:lol

Go find you an all female forum or start one then. Seriously...you've been here over a year...and you still haven't figured out this is the asshole of the internet? As GSH said, it has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the fabric of this place.

Hang with enough assholes for long enough and you'll get shit on.

Lol. Some people are so sensitive here.

Its not even personal, its about basketball.

My goodness.

[SAGirl]

I don't care what gender you are, what color, nationality, or anything else. I read some of your early comments and decided you know about basketball - probably more about X's an O's than I do. And I told you so.

Your biggest problem here is that you have a favorite player, and you lose objectivity when you try to analyze or talk about him. That's not even the problem, really, because most of us are guilty at times. The problem is that you still think you are being objective, and you write off a lot of criticism as, "That guy is an asshole."

1. Even assholes can have good takes
2. Put a group of people together. ANY group of people. And somebody is going to get picked on.
3. Saying "I get picked on AND I'm a woman" is not the same as "I get picked on BECAUSE I'm a woman".

You go looking for a reason for why you get picked on. You're missing the point. You get picked on because you're here. This is a rough place, and always has been. The fact that you catch shit from people here just means that they treat you just like anyone else.
That is part of why I get picked on in a delectable fashion by some and I don't care about that bc everyone has their favorite. My thing is just that I like a guy that many hate... and very often I take some of those digs at my person in a humurous fashion TBH. I have learned to accept that if I am going to be that vocal I am going to get digs at me... that is fine. But I do comment a lot about other things like the Dedmon/Lee thing among others and I have started to keep Anderson out of subjects that are not Anderson related myself bc it's become tiring even for me, believe it or not. He gets too much negative attention from guys already and prop ups everywhere, like here, as this is not about Anderson.

It's my observation in general, that some guys just like to be right and have an attitude of wanting to be right on everything and will debate you endlessly when after a certain point, some things are due to observation and appreciation, and then players adapt and change and Pop implements changes etc. That doesn't make an initial observation right or wrong, and the lack of spacing may yet become an issue, and when it does I may come in and tell you I told you all so, but it's not my thing. The dickish behavior is not just for me mind you, it's a general forum behaviour. I tend to think for some guys it's just they are childish and immature, but I do have a general impression that is male related thing: who has the biggest dick here? bc I don't care about that.

[DeRozan m8]

Knew this would work, love having an actual athletic big in the second line up.

Last year was a nightmare I couldn't wait to wake up from.

[palangi]

I don't know if SaGirl is Chinook's troll or if they just happen to have equally bad takes and always agree on their bad takes. It does not really matter since there are still some decent posters here.
SaGirl just parrots whatever chinook says.

[JR3]

Yeah, the way they step-in to the court coming off the bench is pretty similar :toast
Lol I know right?!

[dbestpro]

Read the thread and like the Ben Wallace comparison for Dedmon with Dedmon being taller, and having better offense.

[szkorhetz]

It will be hard to find PT for Timmy after he comes back in February, TBH.

[Thunder1]

That is part of why I get picked on in a delectable fashion by some and I don't care about that bc everyone has their favorite. My thing is just that I like a guy that many hate... and very often I take some of those digs at my person in a humurous fashion TBH. I have learned to accept that if I am going to be that vocal I am going to get digs at me... that is fine. But I do comment a lot about other things like the Dedmon/Lee thing among others and I have started to keep Anderson out of subjects that are not Anderson related myself bc it's become tiring even for me, believe it or not. He gets too much negative attention from guys already and prop ups everywhere, like here, as this is not about Anderson.

It's my observation in general, that some guys just like to be right and have an attitude of wanting to be right on everything and will debate you endlessly when after a certain point, some things are due to observation and appreciation, and then players adapt and change and Pop implements changes etc. That doesn't make an initial observation right or wrong, and the lack of spacing may yet become an issue, and when it does I may come in and tell you I told you all so, but it's not my thing. The dickish behavior is not just for me mind you, it's a general forum behaviour. I tend to think for some guys it's just they are childish and immature, but I do have a general impression that is male related thing: who has the biggest dick here? bc I don't care about that.

Just keep posting...

[phxspurfan]

Kings? That's a WNBA team

[K...]

REally, the whole " i was right" is really "dedmon bailed my ass out"

Lee is who we thought he is. A hustle big. Dedmon was the big Q. Without dedmon being 1) athletic 2) professional, this doesn't work. As with much of what we saw in game one, consistency is the key, but the bench bigs have really met the most bullish expectations available. The people who said "i was right" vary in basketball knowledge but most are, shall we say politely, know big Orlando/dedmon fans.



TLDR...it's was too early to say the bench bigs are perfect,

[Russ]

Cherry on the Top is Dedmon and his Ben Wallace like performances thus far.

Could it be Orlando does it again -- let's an undervalued defensive center go to a contender?

Orlando has the Midas touch in reverse for big men. Ben Wallace is a throw in to Detroit to allow a sign-and-trade for Grant Hill (the ironman of the NBA). Wallace wins a title in Detroit.

Shaq walks and wins titles in LA.

Maybe this time it's the Spurs' turn to profit from the most mismanaged franchise in the league.

[cd021]

Could it be Orlando does it again -- let's an undervalued defensive center go to a contender?

Orlando has the Midas touch in reverse for big men. Ben Wallace is a throw in to Detroit to allow a sign-and-trade for Grant Hill (the ironman of the NBA). Wallace wins a title in Detroit.

Shaq walks and wins titles in LA.

Maybe this time it's the Spurs' turn to profit from the most mismanaged franchise in the league.

If Dedmon turns out to be a legit starting center, this season, then the Spurs may not be able to keep him this off season especially with Simmons potentially having a breakout season.

[BillMc]

If Dedmon turns out to be a legit starting center, this season, then the Spurs may not be able to keep him this off season especially with Simmons potentially having a breakout season.

Isn't Dedmon signed for 2 years? Is there a player option?

[tholdren]

david lee is better than pau gasol. fact

[cd021]

Isn't Dedmon signed for 2 years? Is there a player option?

He has $3.1 million dollar player option, i believe

[BillMc]

He has $3.1 million dollar player option, i believe

Cheers. I didn't know that.

[Raven]

if you expect david lee to play d, i don't know what to tell ya man...

[apalisoc_9]

He has $3.1 million dollar player option, i believe

Yeah...thats worrisome. If Gasol shits the bed, hes going to take that 15 and it would be hard to resign dedmon if he opts out. Simmons is as good as gone and so is mills.

Lee is playing really well right now. He will opt out if this continues.

[BillMc]

Yeah...thats worrisome. If Gasol shits the bed, hes going to take that 15 and it would be hard to resign dedmon if he opts out. Simmons is as good as gone and so is mills.

Lee is playing really well right now. He will opt out if this continues.

Yep. Could be an expensive offseason. Better win NOW! No reason they can't.

[Mel_13]

Cheers. I didn't know that.

Useful link for salary information:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#

[spurs10]

If Dedmon turns out to be a legit starting center, this season, then the Spurs may not be able to keep him this off season especially with Simmons potentially having a breakout season. Yes we can only hope that a desire to stay with the team and to try and reach a suitable compromise will be strong.

[BillMc]

Useful link for salary information:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#

Cheers.:toast That's really useful. Thanks.

[SD126]

Lol. Some people are so sensitive here.

Its not even personal, its about basketball.

My goodness.

[BillMc]

That's impossible, because we're clearly disagreeing in these last couple of posts. Can't both be wrong, can we?

Can I make a joke here about two wrongs not making a right? :lol

[SAGirl]

Yep. Could be an expensive offseason. Better win NOW! No reason they can't.
I agree. Win now mode. Everyone in a contract season is super motivated. The young guys here for a season after this one are competing for playing time opportunities and the coach's trust. I think both selfish and team goals coincide.... I think the team has enough talent and Kawhi's is looking like an MVP to me. It's win now mode!

[BD24]

Dedmon/Lee combo is so nice.

[blizz]

Yeah it is. I'm really liking lee. He fits in so well and his D is surprisingly good.

[SAGirl]

Got to say, they are special. Dedmon could start. He's been surprising every game. Tonight two jumpshots I didn't know he had. Definitely a good duo if they keep it like that, got to admit. I have actually loved Dedmond's play a lot. :toast and Lee's an excellent passer and energy player!

[ace3g]

bench


MIN
FG
3PT
FT
OREB
DREB
REB
AST
STL
BLK
TO
PF
+/-
PTS


D. Lee (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2772)PF

8
3-6
0-0
0-0
1
4
5
1
0
0
0
0
+1
6


J. Simmons (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2579466)SF
12
5-12
0-1
1-2
0
3
3
1
1
1
2
2
+7
11


D. Bertans (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6426)SF
3
1-4
1-2
0-0
2
2
4
0
0
2
2
1
+2
3


D. Dedmon (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2580913)C

9
2-4
0-0
1-2
1
5
6
0
1
2
0
1
+9
5


D. Murray (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3907497)PG
0
0-2
0-1
0-2
0
2
2
1
0
0
1
1
+0
0


B. Forbes (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2994526)SG
6
1-3
0-1
0-0
0
1
1
0
1
0
0
2
+0
2


N. Laprovittola (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2968338)G
9
2-5
0-3
3-3
0
4
4
4
0
0
1
2
+9
7

[spursistan]

So glad those two have supplanted the Turd Towers :tu... their hustle and effort has been unmistakable thus far.

[Hoops Czar]

bench


MIN
FG
3PT
FT
OREB
DREB
REB
AST
STL
BLK
TO
PF
+/-
PTS


D. Lee (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2772)PF

8
3-6
0-0
0-0
1
4
5
1
0
0
0
0
+1
6


J. Simmons (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2579466)SF
12
5-12
0-1
1-2
0
3
3
1
1
1
2
2
+7
11


D. Bertans (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6426)SF
3
1-4
1-2
0-0
2
2
4
0
0
2
2
1
+2
3


D. Dedmon (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2580913)C

9
2-4
0-0
1-2
1
5
6
0
1
2
0
1
+9
5


D. Murray (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3907497)PG
0
0-2
0-1
0-2
0
2
2
1
0
0
1
1
+0
0


B. Forbes (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2994526)SG
6
1-3
0-1
0-0
0
1
1
0
1
0
0
2
+0
2


N. Laprovittola (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2968338)G
9
2-5
0-3
3-3
0
4
4
4
0
0
1
2
+9
7




:wow Only6 6 turnovers by the bench, what changed?

[ElNono]

:wow Only6 6 turnovers by the bench, what changed?

what changed? Bench had 6 against the Dubs and 3 against the Kings...

[DAF86]

Is so obvious Dedmon would fit a lot better with the starters than Pau. Same case with Patty and Tony. But you gotta keep the divas happy.

I wonder if Pop might be able to sell Tony and Pau the all former all-star bench consisting of Tony, Manu, Lee and Pau.

[ulosturedge]

Is so obvious Dedmon would fit a lot better with the starters than Pau. Same case with Patty and Tony. But you gotta keep the divas happy.

I wonder if Pop might be able to sell Tony and Pau the all former all-star bench consisting of Tony, Manu, Lee and Pau.

Tony and Manu would be redundant in the backcourt. Since Tony is relegated to playing a facilitator role these days; And that's what Manu does best at this point in his career. Both need the ball in their hands to be effective. Yeah Manu could defer and just be a shooting guard out there, but do you really want Tony running the offense while Manu is out there. If Tony was a better shooter it could work.

But it is obvious Patty does deserve to start. As long as Pop treats Patty like a prime Manu playing the sixth man role this year. Patty should be playing the majority of closing minutes this year. If he shows Tony too much love we are going to have problems.

[wildbill2u]

I was pretty confident that Lee could contribute more than West. About Dedmon I was less sure of his contribution. He may still be prone to fouls, but as the last big off the bench who cares if he gets five or six in blowouts.

[dabom]

Tres going in. :lol

[DAF86]

Tony and Manu would be redundant in the backcourt. Since Tony is relegated to playing a facilitator role these days; And that's what Manu does best at this point in his career. Both need the ball in their hands to be effective. Yeah Manu could defer and just be a shooting guard out there, but do you really want Tony running the offense while Manu is out there. If Tony was a better shooter it could work.

But it is obvious Patty does deserve to start. As long as Pop treats Patty like a prime Manu playing the sixth man role this year. Patty should be playing the majority of closing minutes this year. If he shows Tony too much love we are going to have problems.

Tony should just retire, tbh.

[BackHome]

I am starting to think without Kawhi starting our bench would be better then our starters.

[ace3g]

starters


MIN
FG
3PT
FT
OREB
DREB
REB
AST
STL
BLK
TO
PF
+/-
PTS


P. Gasol (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/996)PF
31
9-18
1-2
1-2
3
8
11
3
0
2
0
2
-1
20


D. Lee (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2772)PF

25
3-7
0-0
2-2
4
7
11
0
1
0
0
4
-3
8


K. Leonard (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6450)SF
30
8-16
1-3
10-12
0
2
2
6
1
1
4
3
+12
27


T. Parker (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1015)PG
22
1-4
1-1
0-0
0
2
2
4
0
1
3
3
+1
3


K. Anderson (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2993874)SG
20
2-3
1-1
0-0
0
1
1
1
0
0
2
2
+7
5


bench
MIN
FG
3PT
FT
OREB
DREB
REB
AST
STL
BLK
TO
PF
+/-
PTS


J. Simmons (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2579466)SF
25
2-8
0-1
2-2
0
2
2
3
0
0
0
1
-1
6


D. Bertans (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6426)SF
17
2-3
2-3
0-0
1
0
1
0
0
1
0
2
+7
6


D. Dedmon (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2580913)C

16
2-5
0-0
5-6
4
4
8
1
0
0
0
4
+6
9


P. Mills (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4004)PG
25
6-10
4-6
2-2
0
0
0
0
0
0
1
1
+8
18


M. Ginobili (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/272)SG
28
2-8
0-1
0-0
2
4
6
2
2
0
5
3
+1
4


N. Laprovittola (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2968338)G
1
0-0
0-0
0-0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
1
-2
0


D. Murray (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3907497)PG
DNP-COACH'S DECISION


B. Forbes (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2994526)SG
DNP-COACH'S DECISION


TEAM

37-82
10-18
22-26
14
30
44
20
4
5
15
26

106

[spursistan]

^^ this game would have been an automatic L with the Turd Towers on the glass.

[siraulo23]

got damn

you cant ask em to do any more, 9 and 8 from dedmon and 8 and 11 from lee

[BillMc]

Dewayne and David. Nothing better than a nice double D. :eyebrows

[Maddog]

I was pretty confident that Lee could contribute more than West. About Dedmon I was less sure of his contribution. He may still be prone to fouls, but as the last big off the bench who cares if he gets five or six in blowouts.

At least two of his 4 fouls where completely excusable. One he switched on a wing, but still got back to foul Whiteside intentionally, another was a hard foul/block. Make them earn it. Said by Spuristan, with last year's bench big this was a loss.

[Maddog]

Dewayne and David. Nothing better than a nice double D. :eyebrows

Add in Davis Bertans and we have a triple D.

[YGWHI]

Dedmon+Lee=BIG effort :tu

I loved that play where there was a loose ball on the floor and Dedmon went down to get it...It's so good to have bigs who play a high level of energy

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Thing I love about Lee this year, he is listening to Pop. Several times this game Pop was addressing him from the sideline on a dead ball and every time he gave him his undivided attention. You can tell Lee really respects Pop and has elevated his defensive game b/c of it.

[TimDunkem]

Raven! Get in here and tell us about how Lee is trash and the worst defender in NBA history again.

[BillMc]

Raven! Get in here and tell us about how Lee is trash and the worst defender in NBA history again.

Worst defender in NBA history? I'm not saying David has been good but clearly she's never watched Steve Nash or James Harden play.

[100%duncan]

^^ this game would have been an automatic L with the Turd Towers on the glass.

True

[TimDunkem]

Worst defender in NBA history? I'm not saying David has been good but clearly she's never watched Steve Nash or James Harden play.

because he is david lee, one of the worst defenders in nba history. It's one thing to have him spark the offense off the bench, get some empty rebounds and shit... it's a whole different story to have him start...

:lol

[TimDunkem]

Thing I love about Lee this year, he is listening to Pop. Several times this game Pop was addressing him from the sideline on a dead ball and every time he gave him his undivided attention. You can tell Lee really respects Pop and has elevated his defensive game b/c of it.
From Lee in the postgame interview: "Coach was happy and that's all that matters". :toast

[GSH]

Worst defender in NBA history? I'm not saying David has been good but clearly she's never watched Steve Nash or James Harden play.


He's not been known as a good defender, but I can see that it helps a lot to be on a team where he knows he's going to get some help. He may not be a defensive stopper, but I was too hard on him. So far, he's doing what the Spurs need from him, and he's good enough on D. You can't deny that he's working his ass off the whole time he's on the floor.

[BillMc]

He's not been known as a good defender, but I can see that it helps a lot to be on a team where he knows he's going to get some help. He may not be a defensive stopper, but I was too hard on him. So far, he's doing what the Spurs need from him, and he's good enough on D. You can't deny that he's working his ass off the whole time he's on the floor.

Yeah, he's been impressive. He's a two time all star and was key in the Dubs championship. I think he's hungry and certainly good enough as a backup.

Of course, after the preseason I was down on Dedmon and Simmons too, so what the hell do I know? :lol

[Raven]

:lol

what's your point, he was a net negative and that was against an awful team..

[GSH]

what's your point, he was a net negative and that was against an awful team..


Really? 8 points, 11 boards, and a steal, and you're going with the +/- rather than just admit that he played a good game? You want it too badly.

[Raven]

Really? 8 points, 11 boards, and a steal, and you're going with the +/- rather than just admit that he played a good game? You want it too badly.

what's to want tbh, there is nothing to prove about david lee. It's a discussion long gone. Let's hope he can be useful and hope for the best.. not really much to say.

[GSH]

what's to want tbh, there is nothing to prove about david lee. It's a discussion long gone. Let's hope he can be useful and hope for the best.. not really much to say.


Spurs have played 4 games. He's been very useful in all of them. You got your wish.

Now if you stick with the idea that there's not much for you to say, I get my wish too.

[Raven]

Spurs have played 4 games. He's been very useful in all of them. You got your wish.

Now if you stick with the idea that there's not much for you to say, I get my wish too.

yeah, but I mean, with the knowledge that he must not be allowed to be anything more than a 10th option...

[TimDunkem]

Raven, you were wrong about Lee. Accept it.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Actually he was right about Lee. This is the just best D that Lee has played his entire career. Lee has always be a mostly poor to avg defender. Through 4 games, I would rate his D as good to very good. Same happen to LMA last season. Pop does wonders in coaching up players willing to listen to him, especially on the defensive side of the ball. True disciple and testament to Larry Brown.

[TimDunkem]

lol No he wasn't. He said he was one of the worst defenders of all time. Nothing correct about that statement.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Well that is an overstatement. I can name 30 defenders worse than him easily over the past 20 years. But Lee has been a poor defender most of this career, but yes, not close to the worse of all time.

[DPG21920]

Nothing is obvious at this point - it's so damn early, Spurs have been missing Danny and Pau is brand new. It takes time to fit in, especially with Kawhi breaking out, LMA being a key part of the team and all the lineup shuffling already.

Dedmon has looked very good and fills a nice role, but those giving up on Pau when the SL is doing well will probably regret it.

Like last year, SA had one of the most dominant SL's in the league. As Pau learns and DG is back, it will again be that way.

Coming into the season, the bench was my biggest concern by far. The fact that the bench looks better than expected (especially the front court guys with Lee/Ded/Bertans) I would definitley not change that. Spurs need that unit to click so badly and the fact they are doing well early is fantastic. Keep them together!

Then as Pau adjusts and Danny is back, this SL is going to be special. Even if Pau just gives the SL a little more than Tim did (especially offensively) and DG gets his shooting back to normal this SL is scary.

[DPG21920]

Even Pau's line against the Kings was perfect - just the threat to score, move the ball and help out on defense was big. Then you see like tonight what Pau still has left when needed (something that Tim could just not do last year later in the year especially).

Encouraged by the last two games and IMO Danny will really help Pau.

[GSH]

yeah, but I mean, with the knowledge that he must not be allowed to be anything more than a 10th option...


A 10th option? So now you're bashing his offense? Look, I was pretty negative when the Spurs signed him - but one thing I never shortchanged was the fact that he is a DAMN good finisher around the rim. I'm looking forward to the Spurs putting in some plays to take advantage of that.

You have to understand that he's not much of a threat away from the basket. (At least he hasn't been in the past - maybe he'll fool me about that, too.) But get the ball in his hands down low, and he comes up with points a lot. And he can do it against starter-level competition. He's got a lot of junk in his game, and he comes from a lot of different angles. Right now he's getting a lot of garbage man points. But as the second team firms up, I think he will get his number called enough to convince people (even you) that he's a scoring threat in his own right.

Look I'm not trying to just be argumentative. But I think you're selling him short. He's smart. He's a hard worker. He can definitely put up points. And so far he's been much better on defense than I thought he could be, and he's doing his work early on the boards and coming down with his share. It looks like he's going to shore up one of the biggest holes in the Spurs roster. I don't know who they could have realistically picked up who would have been as good.

I'm saying I underestimated him. I think you are, too.

[DPG21920]

Lee is actually pretty good off the dribble and an excellent passer. I really hope he doesn't become a black hole like he has been.

I get it - he's an aggressive player offensively and with the bench I will take that more often than not. But he's a very solid passer in his career, solid off the dribble and if he would just look to make more basketball plays it would really help his value overall (and he's been very good all things considered).

[GSH]

Lee is actually pretty good off the dribble and an excellent passer. I really hope he doesn't become a black hole like he has been.

I get it - he's an aggressive player offensively and with the bench I will take that more often than not. But he's a very solid passer in his career, solid off the dribble and if he would just look to make more basketball plays it would really help his value overall (and he's been very good all things considered).


Don't you think that will come with some more time, and those guys learning how to play with each other?

One thing worth mentioning. Last year he took about 70% of his shots right around the basket (0-2 feet), and he made 75% of them (.663 for his career from close). If he is a black hole, I don't mind as long as he's working near the rim. I know a lot of those are put-backs, but the point is he's a hell of a finisher. His percentages go to shit outside of about 5-6 feet. But working against second-team defenders, I wouldn't mind seeing him being a little bit selfish when they let him get the ball near the rim. Kick it out enough to keep them honest, but it's hard to get the ball to anyone who will shoot a higher percentage than that.

He did have a pretty raggedy shooting game tonight, and he took some shots farther out that I wish he would have had the patience to pass up.

[Raven]

Raven, you were wrong about Lee. Accept it.

what about? I always thought we were going to win...

[DPG21920]

Don't you think that will come with some more time, and those guys learning how to play with each other?

One thing worth mentioning. Last year he took about 70% of his shots right around the basket (0-2 feet), and he made 75% of them (.663 for his career from close). If he is a black hole, I don't mind as long as he's working near the rim. I know a lot of those are put-backs, but the point is he's a hell of a finisher. His percentages go to shit outside of about 5-6 feet. But working against second-team defenders, I wouldn't mind seeing him being a little bit selfish when they let him get the ball near the rim. Kick it out enough to keep them honest, but it's hard to get the ball to anyone who will shoot a higher percentage than that.

He did have a pretty raggedy shooting game tonight, and he took some shots farther out that I wish he would have had the patience to pass up.

I'm not too worried about - seems more of a case of a guy who used to be a focal point seeing himself as the best option now that he's more of a bench player. Plus the fact it's a new team like you said. But he used to make passes that were really good and this year, even though efficient, he's been almost over the top black hole.

Just something to keep an eye on as the season progresses and could really help the 2nd unit even more if that clicks.

[Raven]

A 10th option? So now you're bashing his offense? Look, I was pretty negative when the Spurs signed him - but one thing I never shortchanged was the fact that he is a DAMN good finisher around the rim. I'm looking forward to the Spurs putting in some plays to take advantage of that.

You have to understand that he's not much of a threat away from the basket. (At least he hasn't been in the past - maybe he'll fool me about that, too.) But get the ball in his hands down low, and he comes up with points a lot. And he can do it against starter-level competition. He's got a lot of junk in his game, and he comes from a lot of different angles. Right now he's getting a lot of garbage man points. But as the second team firms up, I think he will get his number called enough to convince people (even you) that he's a scoring threat in his own right.

Look I'm not trying to just be argumentative. But I think you're selling him short. He's smart. He's a hard worker. He can definitely put up points. And so far he's been much better on defense than I thought he could be, and he's doing his work early on the boards and coming down with his share. It looks like he's going to shore up one of the biggest holes in the Spurs roster. I don't know who they could have realistically picked up who would have been as good.

I'm saying I underestimated him. I think you are, too.

well, 5 starters, ginobili, patty, dedmon, KA, Simmons and he's already 10th at best

[GSH]

well, 5 starters, ginobili, patty, dedmon, KA, Simmons and he's already 10th at best

I'm not going to argue with you. Just not. So far, he's got the 6th most points on the team. He's an inside scoring threat, and he doesn't have the opportunity to call his own number. But when he gets the ball down low, he converts at a high rate. Beyond that, you'll just have to argue with yourself.

[r0drig0lac]

Add in Davis Bertans and we have a triple D.

[Raven]

I'm not going to argue with you. Just not. So far, he's got the 6th most points on the team. He's an inside scoring threat, and he doesn't have the opportunity to call his own number. But when he gets the ball down low, he converts at a high rate. Beyond that, you'll just have to argue with yourself.

i don't think anyone argued that he can't score..

[cd021]

Cheers.:toast That's really useful. Thanks.

The way I figure it;
Spurs should have around $10,077,921 committed to;

PG-Parker, Nico Lapr.
SG-Green, Simmons*, Murray, Forbes
SF-Leonard, Bertans
PF-Aldridge, Anderson
C-Gasol, Milutinov*
*Cap hold or QA

I think Mills is almost certainly gone and it will be almost impossible to keep both Simmons and Dedmon under that scenario.

I highly doubt that Gasol opts out of $16 million next season unless he is looking for a 2 year deal with guaranteed $. If he is, then the Spurs could offer him a 2 year deal in the area code of $24 million if he were to opt out. That could give the Spurs around $14.5 million to try and bring back two of those three.

Mills has a cap hold of $6.8 Million, leaving around $7.7 million in cap space for either Dedmon or Simmons in the second scenario. I'm not sure whom the Spurs would pick if that were to happen. Mills is a starting caliber PG, while Dedmon could certainly develop into a starting caliber center as soon as next season, while Simmons has shown that he could be the replacement to Manu as the backup SG.

[Chinook]

They don't need cap space for Simmons. In a scenario where he and Mills are both on the team, you can just count their cap holds. The issue is that Patty's hold is actually going to be larger than it's currently projected to be, about $11 Million. Simmons's cap hold will be around $3 Million - $5 Million depending on playing time.

[BillMc]

The way I figure it;
Spurs should have around $10,077,921 committed to;

PG-Parker, Nico Lapr.
SG-Green, Simmons*, Murray, Forbes
SF-Leonard, Bertans
PF-Aldridge, Anderson
C-Gasol, Milutinov*
*Cap hold or QA

I think Mills is almost certainly gone and it will be almost impossible to keep both Simmons and Dedmon under that scenario.

I highly doubt that Gasol opts out of $16 million next season unless he is looking for a 2 year deal with guaranteed $. If he is, then the Spurs could offer him a 2 year deal in the area code of $24 million if he were to opt out. That could give the Spurs around $14.5 million to try and bring back two of those three.

Mills has a cap hold of $6.8 Million, leaving around $7.7 million in cap space for either Dedmon or Simmons in the second scenario. I'm not sure whom the Spurs would pick if that were to happen. Mills is a starting caliber PG, while Dedmon could certainly develop into a starting caliber center as soon as next season, while Simmons has shown that he could be the replacement to Manu as the backup SG.

I'm not as number savvy as you or Chinook but, based on early returns, if it came down to a choice of Dedmon or Simmons, I'd take the former. When players are roughly equal take the big.

[SAGirl]

Very interesting discussion. I have wondered about that but bc I am not good with cap and contract intricacies, truth is I had no idea how to work it out. All 3 players will be in the prime of their careers for the next contract and will produce well if healthy.

We have to wait for the postseason bc that's where the big bucks are earned. Mills and Dedmon have not gotten a big contract and Simmons needs to get the best $ he can get. I don't expect anyone to give a discount. They will probably chase a role too. It's lime Biyombo and guys like that (its not just only about money but a role)...

If the team and them individually do well in the postseason it doesn't seem possible to retain them all, but again I just don't understand the cap issues enough to speculate about it.

[SAGirl]

I'm not as number savvy as you or Chinook but, based on early returns, if it came down to a choice of Dedmon or Simmons, I'd take the former. When players are roughly equal take the big.
Dijon projects as similar to Simmons too. He should be better next season, just something to watch for. Performance in the postseason is what will really make it happen or not in terms of increased role and $... though they are both NBA players...

[gambit1990]

these two are such an upgrade, thank god.

and no bonner?

:danceclub

[tholdren]

Chinook is a crybaby, and SA Girl thinks that Anderson is a good basketball player. I don't think they are the same person. Chinook knows a lot of contract garbage and legality, but his/her ability to analyze the game is baffling at best, as he/she disregards any eye test and solely does the box advanced stat regurgitation. Back to the topic - Dedmon and Lee are both playing better than Pau - which is expected and sad, but good for the team. Pau needs to stop playing like some dude that gets manicures. Bully people.

[cd021]

They don't need cap space for Simmons. In a scenario where he and Mills are both on the team, you can just count their cap holds. The issue is that Patty's hold is actually going to be larger than it's currently projected to be, about $11 Million. Simmons's cap hold will be around $3 Million - $5 Million depending on playing time.

I was under the impression that Simmons was Arenas FA, like Boban; where the first couple years of his deal are limited to the value of the MLE with the the 3rd and 4th year only limited to the max for his years of experience, say year 1 and year 2 are $5.6 million each and then year 3 was worth $ 9.2, ($21 million) his cap hit would be $7 million to the Spurs in order to keep him.


I heard that they were going to raise cap holds, but I thought that was only for rookies coming off their rookie contracts. Anyhow; while I really like Mills, if the Spurs can lock up Simmons and Dedmon along with bringing over Milutinov, I would be fine with that.

[Chinook]

I was under the impression that Simmons was Arenas FA, like Boban; where the first couple years of his deal are limited to the value of the MLE with the the 3rd and 4th year only limited to the max for his years of experience, say year 1 and year 2 are $5.6 million each and then year 3 was worth $ 9.2, ($21 million) his cap hit would be $7 million to the Spurs in order to keep him.


I heard that they were going to raise cap holds, but I thought that was only for rookies coming off their rookie contracts. Anyhow; while I really like Mills, if the Spurs can lock up Simmons and Dedmon along with bringing over Milutinov, I would be fine with that.

Boban was an atypical Arenas RFA. The Spurs don't need to worry about fitting his contract in, just his hold.

[mudyez]

https://theringer.com/the-spurs-have-unearthed-a-rough-gem-for-the-post-duncan-era-4b01a7173d80#.x9gkc09ci

[jermaine]

He's gonna get tired of them NOT throwing allyoops when he's running the floor.

[playbonner15]

He's gonna get tired of them NOT throwing allyoops when he's running the floor. He might ask for a trade to GS or the Clips just coz they dont do alleyoops in San Antonio :lol

[spursistan]

Zach Lowe heaping praise on Dedmon--though hopefully not prematurely (dude is still shaky with them hands).:lol

Also gotta give pops to my nigga MaNu4Tres (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=5714) who has been endlessly harping on the lack of rolling as the major source of the team's offensive predictability last season..It turns out RC Buford was secretly fretting about the same issue and has moved on to address it this off-season.. :tu..


6. Dewayne Dedmon, no longer with hooves for hands

Two years ago, one GM explained his lack of interest in Dedmon as a cheapo backup with this zinger: "He can block shots, but he has hooves for hands."


The Spurs paid for a hand transplant, apparently:

Salary-dumping Tiago Splitter to free up room for LaMarcus Aldridge was a no-brainer; Splitter is already injured again in Atlanta. But before last season, R.C. Buford, the Spurs GM, told me he was quietly fretting that the moves left San Antonio without a single big man capable of rolling hard to the basket and making plays -- Splitter's speciality. Tim Duncan was aging fast. All three of Aldridge, David West, and Boris Diaw prefer hanging around the perimeter.

It seemed like nitpicking from an over-worrier, but Buford was onto something. The Spurs needed more ways to pressure the rim, and suck in help defenders.


They took a flier on Dedmon to fill that role, and through five games, he looks like a nice addition to their rotation -- the shot-blocking rim-runner type they haven't had in a while. The Spurs expected all Dedmon's hoppy activity, but if he starts easing in soft-touch bunnies around the rim, even San Antonio higher-ups will be shocked. That is found money.


Dedmon is rebounding at a career-best rate, and he and David Lee have formed a shockingly effective backup big partnership.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17950115/zach-lowe-10-things-like

[TheDoctor]

794026436814323712


Through the first five games of the season, Dedmon is averaging 5.8 points, 6.8 rebounds, and 1.6 blocks a game in only 17.1 minutes, making him one of the most productive per-minute rebounders and shot blockers in the NBA.

[Chinook]

Really don't like the narrative that the Spurs unearthed Dedmon. He was already good when they signed him, hence the deal he had them agree to. He's playing a lot better because he isn't being put in awful defensive positions often. But the dude broke out two years ago in Orlando, and if they didn't go through two regime changes in like 14 months, he'd probably be there starting now.

[SAGirl]

Good articles on Dedmon.. thanks for sharing. :tu

[spursistan]

Really don't like the narrative that the Spurs unearthed Dedmon. He was already good when they signed him, hence the deal he had them agree to. He's playing a lot better because he isn't being put in awful defensive positions often. But the dude broke out two years ago in Orlando, and if they didn't go through two regime changes in like 14 months, he'd probably be there starting now.
The Magic post-Howard rebuilding has been a lowkey disaster from hiring the wrong coaches to stacking average talent with one lottery pick after the other..not sure what's the direction there...

[Chinook]

The Magic post-Howard rebuilding has been a lowkey disaster from hiring the wrong coaches to stacking average talent with one lottery pick after the other..not sure what's the direction there...

Only big post-Howard move (prior to this past off-season) I don't like was drafting Payton, and even with that half my critique is the Philly trade. Getting Fournier for Afflalo was great. Gordon and Hezonia are fine picks. They didn't let themselves get stuck to Harris or Frye. But then they made win-now front-court moves when their front court wasn't even the problem. So their back court is subpar but without much hope of getting better. So unless Payton explodes or they find a way to trade for a premiere PG, I don't know what they're going to do.

[TheDoctor]

The Magic post-Howard rebuilding has been a lowkey disaster from hiring the wrong coaches to stacking average talent with one lottery pick after the other..not sure what's the direction there...

Yeah like Phoenix that Franchise has been a clusterfuck the last 4+ years. There's no direction or identity top to bottom.

[MaNu4Tres]

Zach Lowe heaping praise on Dedmon--though hopefully not prematurely (dude is still shaky with them hands).:lol

Also gotta give pops to my nigga MaNu4Tres (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=5714) who has been endlessly harping on the lack of rolling as the major source of the team's offensive predictability last season..It turns out RC Buford was secretly fretting about the same issue and has moved on to address it this off-season.. :tu..



http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17950115/zach-lowe-10-things-like

Thanks man.

It was a big reason why I was in favor of Boban getting minutes over West vs. OKC after game 2. Not only that, but West was useless in every aspect on both ends outside of his ineffective Pick and Pops. Pop never made the adjustment though, and kept giving West the most minutes next to Aldridge.

I'm glad they were able to get two rollers in Lee and Dedmon. So far, it's been paying off for the most part with the 2nd unit.

My only gripe is I wish LA and Gasol would put more energy into the wrinkle in rolling instead of pick and popping > 90% of the time it seems like.

I don't know about everyone else, but it bothers me how LaMarcus doesn't effect most games outside of his pick and pop opportunities. Four rebounds in 35 minutes vs. the Jazz is inexcusable. For the past three games, he's been kind of a ghost if he's not scoring. Wish he was wired like Kawhi to where he puts a stamp on the game in many other ways.

[spursistan]

Thanks man.

It was a big reason why I was in favor of Boban getting minutes over West vs. OKC after game 2. Not only that, but West was useless in every aspect on both ends outside of his ineffective Pick and Pops. Pop never made the adjustment though, and kept giving West the most minutes next to Aldridge.

I'm glad they were able to get two rollers in Lee and Dedmon. So far, it's been paying off for the most part with the 2nd unit.

My only gripe is I wish LA and Gasol would put more energy into the wrinkle in rolling instead of pick and popping > 90% of the time it seems like.

I don't know about everyone else, but it bothers me how LaMarcus doesn't effect most games outside of his pick and pop opportunities. Four rebounds in 35 minutes vs. the Jazz is inexcusable. For the past three games, he's been kind of a ghost if he's not scoring. Wish he was wired like Kawhi to where he puts a stamp on the game in many other ways.

I was about to start picking on Kawhi in this area, but he did pull them vs the Jazz. On the other hand, what heck is going on with LMA and rebounding since the OKC series? Only 4 games, but he is on course to register his worst rebounding rate per 36 minutes since his rookie season. There is a reason he is called Softridge around here: just so averse to the grunt work bigs do (screening, rolling etc..) and no wonder he wants Robyn Lopez/Tyson Chandler type of centers to play alongside him. I’m just not seeing the activity and hustle he showed early last season on the glass. 0.5 BLKs for 6’11 playing 31 MPG is embarrassing..old geezer Pau is averaging more than double of that playing 8 minutes less..

[Chinook]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17950115/zach-lowe-10-things-like

I've had my differences with Lowe's opinions recently, but I totally agree on his fourth thing:


4. Fast-break stoppers

The NBA needs to end this scourge now. You know the play: team snags a turnover, starts an exciting fast break, and then some "heady" defender just standing in the way wraps up the ball-handler -- or clotheslines him -- before the fun really starts. It doesn't count as a clear path foul, since that "heady" defender knows there are plenty of players behind him to nullify that rule.


Anecdotally, it feels like I've seen more of this Euro-ball import over the first week of the season than ever before. It is not a basketball play. It's a wrestling move. It's awful. The NBA has an easy solution: just punish these intentional fouls with the clear-path penalty. Yes, that would have unintended consequences; some players would disguise their hacks with reach-ins that look like normal steals, and dare officials to make a judgment call -- one that could require replay.


Still: An extreme penalty might deter the lamest offenses. It's worth a shot. Good news: League officials are monitoring the issue, and they've already fielded occasional complaints from GMs, per league sources.

It's clearly the most bitch-made thing in the NBA besides the Warriors. Honestly, all intentional fouls should go away, but these on the break are awful, especially when Manu does that when his team had guys back and were already in the bonus.

[MaNu4Tres]

I've had my differences with Lowe's opinions recently, but I totally agree on his fourth thing:



It's clearly the most bitch-made thing in the NBA besides the Warriors. Honestly, all intentional fouls should go away, but these on the break are awful, especially when Manu does that when his team had guys back and were already in the bonus.

Intentional fouls on the break should award the offensive team with 2 free throw and the ball.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Thanks man.

It was a big reason why I was in favor of Boban getting minutes over West vs. OKC after game 2. Not only that, but West was useless in every aspect on both ends outside of his ineffective Pick and Pops. Pop never made the adjustment though, and kept giving West the most minutes next to Aldridge.

I'm glad they were able to get two rollers in Lee and Dedmon. So far, it's been paying off for the most part with the 2nd unit.

My only gripe is I wish LA and Gasol would put more energy into the wrinkle in rolling instead of pick and popping > 90% of the time it seems like.

I don't know about everyone else, but it bothers me how LaMarcus doesn't effect most games outside of his pick and pop opportunities. Four rebounds in 35 minutes vs. the Jazz is inexcusable. For the past three games, he's been kind of a ghost if he's not scoring. Wish he was wired like Kawhi to where he puts a stamp on the game in many other ways.

There's just something abut LaMarcus that doesn't scream confidence to me. He's obviously a very good player, but I feel like he can be a bit of an empty stats player. It was insane that he could have 45 and 50 points in the playoffs and the Spurs go 1-1 (although it probably isn't fair to pin that on LaMarcus since he was godlike in those first two games vs OKC). I think my biggest issue with LaMarcus is that he mentally checks out too easily in games if he doesn't feel involved. And if his shot isn't falling it's not like he's putting up gaudy rebounding numbers are consistently playing stellar defense to make up for it.

He was wonderful in that Warriors game, but the more I see from him the more I wonder if the Spurs feel the same way about him that I do.

[MaNu4Tres]

There's just something abut LaMarcus that doesn't scream confidence to me. He's obviously a very good player, but I feel like he can be a bit of an empty stats player. It was insane that he could have 45 and 50 points in the playoffs and the Spurs go 1-1 (although it probably isn't fair to pin that on LaMarcus since he was godlike in those first two games vs OKC). I think my biggest issue with LaMarcus is that he mentally checks out too easily in games if he doesn't feel involved. And if his shot isn't falling it's not like he's putting up gaudy rebounding numbers are consistently playing stellar defense to make up for it.

He was wonderful in that Warriors game, but the more I see from him the more I wonder if the Spurs feel the same way about him that I do.

It certainly feels that way for the most part -- in regards to him being an empty stats player. I sensed it the start of last year too -- when he came into the year a little heavy ( for NBA standards -- not saying he's fat). As the year went on, he lost about 10-15 lbs and started to become more effective and lighter on his feet which made him more effective on O and on D. The way he scores can be viewed as lazy or content with the plethora of stationary pick and pops. Whether his shot is on or off, he still seems like he's a ghost in other aspects of the game instead of being a force on the boards and defensive end contesting, getting deflections, always being in the right place, being alert after a rebound on all fast break opportunities with long effective outlets that could spark the transition game ( Duncan was elite at all of these -- that's also why he has 5 rings).

The way he's wired just bothers me. He's a very talented shooting big, one of the best in the league, but there's a lot of times and too much of the time where he's a ghost out there. Not effecting the game as much as he should be or how much he could be. Bothers me when players with all the talent in the world are lazy around the intangible parts of the game on both ends. Those intangibles is what separates the Melos from the Leonards or the empty stat fools gold type of players from champions.

[sasaint]

It certainly feels that way for the most part -- in regards to him being an empty stats player. I sensed it the start of last year too -- when he came into the year a little heavy ( for NBA standards -- not saying he's fat). As the year went on, he lost about 10-15 lbs and started to become more effective and lighter on his feet which made him more effective on O and on D. The way he scores can be viewed as lazy or content with the plethora of stationary pick and pops. Whether his shot is on or off, he still seems like he's a ghost in other aspects of the game instead of being a force on the boards and defensive end contesting, getting deflections, always being in the right place, being alert after a rebound on all fast break opportunities with long effective outlets that could spark the transition game ( Duncan was elite at all of these -- that's also why he has 5 rings).

The way he's wired just bothers me. He's a very talented shooting big, one of the best in the league, but there's a lot of times and too much of the time where he's a ghost out there. Not effecting the game as much as he should be or how much he could be. Bothers me when players with all the talent in the world are lazy around the intangible parts of the game on both ends. Those intangibles is what separates the Melos from the Leonards or the empty stat fools gold type of players from champions.

Some posters on ST, including ceperez, were not convinced signing LMA was the best use of cap space at the time. Heart of a champion...?

[K...]

And yet for all of lma's apparent laziness we posted excellent defensive metrics last year. Ho hum.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

And yet for all of lma's apparent laziness we posted excellent defensive metrics last year. Ho hum.

Duncan, Leonard, and Green were a huge part of that as well. LMA isn't a traffic cone on defense, but his effort leaves a lot to be desired.


The most frustrating thing about LMA for me, and this goes with what MaNu4Tres was saying in regards to separating your Melos from your Leonards is that I feel that as good as he is, he can be SO much better if he just put the work in which is downright scary. It's weird because you hear all this talk about LMA wanting to be the big man on campus but it seems like maybe it has more to do with the attention he wants to receive than it does with the leadership. I feel like LMA's ceiling is so much higher than what we've seen, but he keeps drifting in and out of games and it's maddeningly frustrating.

I keep worrying about the Spurs need for a consistent third option to make some real noise come playoff time but right now even our second best player has his fair share of question marks from time to time.

Spurs aren't going to win many games in the playoffs if LMA only gets 12 points and 4 rebounds.

[TheDoctor]

I was about to start picking on Kawhi in this area, but he did pull them vs the Jazz. On the other hand, what heck is going on with LMA and rebounding since the OKC series? Only 4 games, but he is on course to register his worst rebounding rate per 36 minutes since his rookie season. There is a reason he is called Softridge around here: just so averse to the grunt work bigs do (screening, rolling etc..) and no wonder he wants Robyn Lopez/Tyson Chandler type of centers to play alongside him. I’m just not seeing the activity and hustle he showed early last season on the glass. 0.5 BLKs for 6’11 playing 31 MPG is embarrassing..old geezer Pau is averaging more than double of that playing 8 minutes less..

You have to consider that he's playing now with good rebounding bigs.

Pau, Dedmon and Lee are much better rebounders than TD (at 75 y/o) and the Turd Towers.

Even Kawhi rebounds #'s are suffering.

[MaNu4Tres]

You have to consider that he's playing now with good rebounding bigs.

Pau, Dedmon and Lee are much better rebounders than TD (at 75 y/o) and the Turd Towers.

Even Kawhi rebounds #'s are suffering.

Aldridge is only pulling down .8 contested defensive rebounds a game, and only pulling down 16.7% of contested rebound opportunities on the defensive end. In comparison, Dedmon is pulling down 50% of contested rebounds; Gasol 31%, Lee 22%.

It's not just who he's playing with, he's been a very ineffective and inefficient rebounder.

[apalisoc_9]

I've said this has been his traits in Portland before he even played a game of basketball for San Antonio...mainstreams casuals laughed at me said PATFO knows his character is better and now stories in San Antonio are also surfacing.

His attitude is pretty well documented in Portland so I'm not sure why spursfan is acting like this is something I'm mkaing things up to troll..His Diva, empty stat and lack.of effort when touches isnt available have been issues that even Blazers fams had.to complain about at times..

And now its magnified playing for San Antonio and with a Guy like Leonard...

As for the rollman, I've been saying and tellibg spursfan we had nl chance in hell last year because we had Zero rollman and Lamarcus is not a willing rollman. Essentially his UNWILLINGNESS caused the spurs a potential ring...but but you're just a troll :cry.

We're getting dumbasses nowadys who fail to understand the spacing a rollman provides..we get them posting 148383 times a day in spurstalk..and because for some reason they'ee civil and not cursing..somehow they know their basketball..

Ladies and Genetleman..the Mainstream Casual Fan.

[apalisoc_9]

Lee doesnt provide Spacing :cry

What an awful understanding of how offenses work..

[jyra]

Intentional fouls on the break should award the offensive team with 2 free throw and the ball.

The Euroleague already the rule implemented in this way. It was badly needed because Euro teams do it much more frequently than NBA teams.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/790807896443322369/C5EhENTl_bigger.jpg San Antonio Spurs Verified account ‏@spurs (https://twitter.com/spurs)

These two https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f525.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cwd3hzVUUAAEPe9.jpg

[timtonymanu]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/790807896443322369/C5EhENTl_bigger.jpg San Antonio Spurs Verified account ‏@spurs (https://twitter.com/spurs)

These two https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f525.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cwd3hzVUUAAEPe9.jpg

To think both were casted off by Golden State too.

[spursistan]

Bump..

15 pts/12 rebs /3 ast

officially upgrading Lee acquisition to a steal :lol..dude is a bundle of energy and dirty work :tu..

[apalisoc_9]

Bertans-Lee-Dedmon have all been amazing.

lets hope they keep it up because with an aging Manu and Anderson being awful...These guys might be our saving grace.

[timtonymanu]

n/m

[timtonymanu]

I've been satisfied with Lee so far. Even when he makes mistakes or is mismatched. Hoping Dead Man returns soon cause I want to see more lineups with him when one of Gasol or Aldridge is struggling.

[ceperez]

Bump..

15 pts/12 rebs /3 ast

officially upgrading Lee acquisition to a steal :lol..dude is a bundle of energy and dirty work :tu..

For vet. min. player... a steal indeed!

[ceperez]

Bertans-Lee-Dedmon have all been amazing.

lets hope they keep it up because with an aging Manu and Anderson being awful...These guys might be our saving grace.

Manu and maybe Anderson need to take a one month break. They've played too much in the off-season and you can see that their game is just falling apart.

Play the other rookies like Forbes and Laprovitolla.. As far as that guy we drafted, can't recall his name, he needs to go back to Austin.

[dabom]

Manu and maybe Anderson need to take a one month break. They've played too much in the off-season and you can see that their game is just falling apart.

Play the other rookies like Forbes and Laprovitolla.. As far as that guy we drafted, can't recall his name, he needs to go back to Austin.

:lol

[tholdren]

Heh, you're actually older than me by a few months, SAG. I don't turn 27 until next year. Unless some timeloop stuff happens, I think we're safely not father and daughter. I think some people use ST to live out fantasies of the folks they wish they were rather than just being chill and saying what they think. They're too caught up the being part of krews or having cred. It's idiotic.
Really Chinook?

[spursistan]

Probably the biggest surprise for this Spurs season is this combo production and the way they're impacting games in sneaky ways (key reboundings, shot deflection, screen, rollings, loose balls..etc) ..

They have made one of Pau/Aldridge somewhat expendable if PATFO wants to make a mid-season shakeup to address the PG position through a trade..

[MaNu4Tres]

So after 25 games, I think its safe to say Lee and Dedmon can play together just fine.

And the criticism on Aldridge on page 2 & 3 in this thread has continued as well -- not good.

[SpursIndonesia]

If only Lee can hit those open 16-18 feet jumpers consistently, that bench offense will be far more deadly.

[MaNu4Tres]

Still ballin together.

[spursistan]

:wakeup

what a huge energy boost this combo is providing ..Just hoping IT isn't A reg season mirage, tbh..

[boutons_deux]

:wakeup

what a huge energy boost this combo is providing ..Just hoping IT isn't A reg season mirage, tbh..

Lee's a tough vet, Dedmon's cold-hearted hustler, neither intimidated.

[Kawhitstorm]

:wakeup

what a huge energy boost this combo is providing ..Just hoping IT isn't A reg season mirage, tbh..

Teams shorten their rotation & play their starters a lot more in the postseason thus Lee can get exposed against the Cripples/Cavs frontline but Softridge is going to play heavy minutes in the postseason anyways. Pau on the other hand is expendable as long as Dedmon can stay on the floor.

[dabom]

Teams shorten their rotation & play their starters a lot more in the postseason thus Lee can get exposed against the Cripples/Cavs frontline but Softridge is going to play heavy minutes in the postseason anyways. Pau on the other hand is expendable as long as Dedmon can stay on the floor.

Lee wouldn't get exposed actually. I've seen enough to say he would be a good impact player vs all the top teams this year.

[Kawhitstorm]

Lee wouldn't get exposed actually. I've seen enough to say he would be a good impact player vs all the top teams this year.

Lee got his lunch eaten by Blake/DeAndre in 2014 when he was actually in his PRIME.:lol

[dabom]

Lee got his lunch eaten by Blake/DeAndre in 2014 when he was actually in his PRIME.:lol

We'll he can fucking rebound unlike West, and he's playing with an elite center next to him. He won't have a problem this season. :lol

[Capt Bringdown]

Love the way Dedmon seems to know his role.

[spursistan]

814455858667077632

[apalisoc_9]

All we need from Lee is a positive contribution in the 10-12 minutes he's going to play in the finals....

That's it....

[MaNu4Tres]

Still ballin'.

Lee is doing great as the PF off the bench. Good to see the two rollers on the team ballin' with the 2nd unit together.

[TD 21]

It's understandable to be surprised at Dedmon and Lee as a pairing offensively, but there should be no surprise about Lee individually. He's doing what he's almost always done, it's just become popular to criticize him in recent years because his game is somewhat antiquated and group think has become pervasive among fans and media alike.

[Joseph Kony]

Spurs would have beaten OKC last season if they had Lee and Dedmon in place of Diaw/West imo

[cd98]

Spurs struck gold in these two.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs would have beaten OKC last season if they had Lee and Dedmon in place of Diaw/West imo

Without question.

Or if Pop simply staggered LA/Kawhi like OKC did Durant/Westbrook.

[Kawhitstorm]

All we need from Lee is a positive contribution in the 10-12 minutes he's going to play in the finals....

cIbD0Cm9pEs

[timtonymanu]

Spurs would have got past OKC with these two on the roster last season.

[YGWHI]

Energy Duo. Changed everything tonight :flag:

[GSH]

Spurs would have beaten OKC last season if they had Lee and Dedmon in place of Diaw/West imo


Count on it. Lee would have suffered some from the height disadvantage - but no more so than West. But his hustle and toughness would have been so much better. And the thought of Dedmon backing up Tim just makes me sad for what could have been.

[spurs10]

Count on it. Lee would have suffered some from the height disadvantage - but no more so than West. But his hustle and toughness would have been so much better. And the thought of Dedmon backing up Tim just makes me sad for what could have been. :toast

[cutewizard]

All we need from Lee is a positive contribution in the 10-12 minutes he's going to play in the finals....

That's it....


-----------------------------------------------------------------

:lobt2:

[apalisoc_9]

Crazy how the spurs might not even have this two next year..

[ace3g]

Just saw a sign in the stands during the pregame video package: They are a Ded-Lee duo

[spursistan]

When you realize the Spurs replaced washed-up Diaw /West with Dedmon and Lee on the cheap..

https://media.giphy.com/media/I4Jmrcjnr8Zfq/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[spursistan]

832223873261326336

[wildbill2u]

When you realize the Spurs replaced washed-up Diaw /West with Dedmon and Lee on the cheap..

https://media.giphy.com/media/I4Jmrcjnr8Zfq/giphy-downsized-large.gif

Best replacement acquisitions in years if not ever to fill in rotation players. Excellent point :bobo

[cd021]

Best replacement acquisitions in years if not ever to fill in rotation players. Excellent point :bobo

Would certainly like to see both Dedmon and Lee back next season, though Spurs did replace Neal and SJax (both of whom had awful 12-13 seasons) with Mills and Beli (both of whom had career years) they gave Manu help off the bench, along with Diaw 2.0, to have a bounce back season and ultimately helped us win the title, that is probably better. As much hate as West and Diaw got for last years series vs the Thunder, West was probably the 3rd best Spur last year (pretty much every advanced stat has him as either 3rd or 4th).

Lee was solid in Dallas, apparently, but undervalued. Spurs getting him on the Vet min and him having been this productive is reminiscent of West.

[SpursFan86]

Unfortunately I think Dedmon's play this year is going to result in him getting a bigger offer than we can afford...would definitely like to keep him though.

[BillMc]

When you realize the Spurs replaced washed-up Diaw /West with Dedmon and Lee on the cheap..

https://media.giphy.com/media/I4Jmrcjnr8Zfq/giphy-downsized-large.gif

Funny...like a clown. :lol

[ace3g]

San Antonio Spurs‏Verified account @spurs (https://twitter.com/spurs)






Also friendship goals, the #DedLeeDuo (https://twitter.com/hashtag/DedLeeDuo?src=hash)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6IqvilUsAAfPKy.jpg

[Ice009]

These two are awesome. First time in years (possibly since 2003) that I've been really happy with the bench bigs. Honorable mention to 2014 Boris Diaw.

I'm defense first and I always prefer big men to little guys when starting/building a team (I'd never pick Jordan first when building a team if I could choose any player in NBA history), so I'm pleased with our front line so far this season. I can't stand our guard rotation though. They really need to get much better if we're going to go far in the playoffs.

[wildbill2u]

You seldom see any team pick up two bench players in the offseason that bloom and grow to be extremely powerful pieces on the chessboard. I was a little dubious at first on Dedmon because of his reputation for fouling, but wtf, I don't care if he gets 6 if the rest of his game is going good. Lee is so crafty under the boards and can shoot as well.

I love these guys. We got a chance at the championship with them playing well that I don't think we could have without them. POP and RC for executives of the year--again.

[Spur|n|Austin]

#DedLeeDuo

:flag::flag::flag:

[emanueldavidginobili]

What a game by Lee, honestly this dude just really knows the game of basketball.

[BillMc]

What a game by Lee, honestly this dude just really knows the game of basketball.
This

[BillMc]

Nice PTR article on the basics of the situation on signing Dedmon next summer.

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2017/3/5/14797000/spurs-can-resign-dewayne-dedmon-summer

They say it will probably be Dedmon vs Patty if Pau opts in, Lee opts out, we let go of Simmons and Manu retires.

[vander]

Nice PTR article on the basics of the situation on signing Dedmon next summer.

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2017/3/5/14797000/spurs-can-resign-dewayne-dedmon-summer

They say it will probably be Dedmon vs Patty if Pau opts in, Lee opts out, we let go of Simmons and Manu retires.

someone in the comments mentioned the possibility of Spurs offering Pau 3/30 if he opts out, this would allow resigning Mills and Dedmon. I like this idea but only if Mills takes a discount, anything more than 8/yr. and Spurs are better off without him IMO.

[BillMc]

someone in the comments mentioned the possibility of Spurs offering Pau 3/30 if he opts out, this would allow resigning Mills and Dedmon. I like this idea but only if Mills takes a discount, anything more than 8/yr. and Spurs are better off without him IMO.

I wonder if Pau would go for that. While a good citizen, he's never been one for discounts. Had some issues with the Lakers about $$$ as I recall. Of course, he's older now. Some of it might also be how much he resents/accepts being a backup in his NBA golden years.