Dedmon to Start, Gasol to the bench

[playbonner15]

Do it, Poop! :hungry:

Chip just needs to find him some form of jumper and this team's golden :lobt:

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Gasol would never accept a bench role, tbh..

He has been one of the biggest complainers in the NBA since his Laker days..

[cd98]

Don't be too harsh on Pau. Slow bigs past their primes can still be effective defenders in the Spurs system, for example, Duncan. But Duncan knew the defensive schemes perfectly while Gasol is still learning. Give him until mid season to adjust.

[playbonner15]

Pop (or Manu / Parker) has to convince Pau to some degree to come off the bench, or maybe Pop will just substitute him earlier to protect his pride

[Arcadian]

:lol Gasol would never accept a bench role, tbh..

He has been one of the biggest complainers in the NBA since his Laker days..

Can't blame him. He was displaced by Dwight Howard from his job where he won 2 championships...

[jimbo]

a pouting gasol is worthless, you gotta massage that ego tbh

[MaNu4Tres]

:lol Gasol would never accept a bench role, tbh..

He has been one of the biggest complainers in the NBA since his Laker days..

I love how Pop doesn't give a shit.

Pau was the prized signing, many people worshiped the move on here. In the second game of the season, Pop closes with the center they signed w/ the mini-exception. Says a lot.

[HarlemHeat37]

Can't blame him. He was displaced by Dwight Howard from his job where he won 2 championships...

I don't blame him, but if he didn't accept being benched for Howard in his prime, he isn't going to be happy sitting for Dewayne fucking Dedmon:lol

[ElNono]

It's going to be a matchup thing... most NBA teams don't really have a bigs game anyways. Kings, Pelicans, Jazz, Pistons, maybe Clippers... IIRC, that's about it.

[HarlemHeat37]

I love how Pop doesn't give a shit.

Pau was the prized signing, many people worshiped the move on here. In the second game of the season, Pop closes with the center they signed w/ the mini-exception. Says a lot.
Yep, I don't think Pop cares about leaving Gasol on the bench in key moments..however, he would never bench him, he knows the repercussions IMO..

I strongly dislike Pau and opposed the signing, but people are overreacting to his poor start, tbh..he'll never be mobile, of course, but his offense should improve immensely once hes comfortable..

[spurtech09]

Don't be too harsh on Pau. Slow bigs past their primes can still be effective defenders in the Spurs system, for example, Duncan. But Duncan knew the defensive schemes perfectly while Gasol is still learning. Give him until mid season to adjust.
agree

[playbonner15]

If Dedmon becomes foul-prone in the next games coz hes more physical, maybe Gasol will still have his start :lol

[timtonymanu]

It's just 2 games, but I feel good about our bigs right now compared to last season when we were getting desperate for Boban

[Arcadian]

I don't blame him, but if he didn't accept being benched for Howard in his prime, he isn't going to be happy sitting for Dewayne fucking Dedmon:lol

I bet he'd rather have Dedmon as a teammate than Coward.

[Chinook]

As I said in the game thread, you can definitely see why there were folks in the Spurs organization that wanted Dedmon to start. Issue is that right now, even if Dedmon started, I'd want another Dedmon off the bench with Lee.

[HarlemHeat37]

Also, as much as I like Dedmon and wanted him on the Spurs, he's been a foul machine throughout his career..he's better suited for a 15-20 MPG role, at least until he has shown some growth, in that regard..

[MaNu4Tres]

Yep, I don't think Pop cares about leaving Gasol on the bench in key moments..however, he would never bench him, he knows the repercussions IMO..

I strongly dislike Pau and opposed the signing, but people are overreacting to his poor start, tbh..he'll never be mobile, of course, but his offense should improve immensely once hes comfortable..

He needs usage to improve immensely offensively. He won't get it w/ Mega-Kawhi & LA.

Also, Pop can't play Parker and Anderson together. Starters have been killed two straight games w/ the two invisible soles out there. It's 3 on 5 with no spacing.

[313]

Pau was a -13 for the 2nd straight Spurs' victory. That seems hard to do.

[HI-FI]

I'm still an MVPau fan so agree with those who thinks he needs more time. He'll flourish in the system eventually imo. Still, Dedmon is the shit, Spurs could've really used him last year.

[HarlemHeat37]

He needs usage to improve immensely offensively. He won't get it w/ Mega-Kawhi & LA.

Also, Pop can't play Parker and Anderson together. Starters have been killed two straight games w/ the two invisible soles out there. It's 3 on 5 with no spacing.

I fully agree that you can't play those 3 together..watching Parker and Gasol together has been painful, even without Kyle..

[spurraider21]

Yep, I don't think Pop cares about leaving Gasol on the bench in key moments..however, he would never bench him, he knows the repercussions IMO..

I strongly dislike Pau and opposed the signing, but people are overreacting to his poor start, tbh..he'll never be mobile, of course, but his offense should improve immensely once hes comfortable..yeah... even aldridge was pretty miserable offensively to start last season

[Chinook]

Also, as much as I like Dedmon and wanted him on the Spurs, he's been a foul machine throughout his career..he's better suited for a 15-20 MPG role, at least until he has shown some growth, in that regard..

I think four fouls in 24 minutes against Cousins is fantastic. But I agree he needs to show he can do that more consistently.

[objective]

Pau is gonna pout like crazy.

Hopefully his legs are just dead from the summer play and he'll improve as the season goes on

[313]

Anderson is just a place holder til Danny gets back, non issue.

[Chinook]

Pau is gonna pout like crazy.

Hopefully his legs are just dead from the summer play and he'll improve as the season goes on

I think it's the opposite. He's probably still not in shape. Dude is open about the fact that he doesn't work out. Probably can only get used to NBA conditioning by playing in an NBA season.

That's just one of the many reasons why folks thinking the Spurs blew their loads against the Warriors are clueless. The team has so much more room for growth.

[Shipupi]

It's going to be a matchup thing... most NBA teams don't really have a bigs game anyways. Kings, Pelicans, Jazz, Pistons, maybe Clippers... IIRC, that's about it. Yes that's also what i thought for a second, but then i remembered tuesday game, in which you couldn't play him either because he'll get abused in the PnR.

[Nathan89]

:lol Gasol would never accept a bench role, tbh..

He has been one of the biggest complainers in the NBA since his Laker days..

Maybe he'll opt out after this year. Fuck him.

[Nathan89]

According to some posts on here apparently Gasol "likes to play his way into shape", so hopefully he'll be able to not suck in the future.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Yep, I don't think Pop cares about leaving Gasol on the bench in key moments..however, he would never bench him, he knows the repercussions IMO..

I strongly dislike Pau and opposed the signing, but people are overreacting to his poor start, tbh..he'll never be mobile, of course, but his offense should improve immensely once hes comfortable..

But can his offense overcome his horrible defense? That's my biggest concern. We are only two games in, but whatever we can get from Pau on offense he gives right back on the other end. There isn't a single positive thing I can see about his defense. I always heard horror stories about his defense but this is just straight up shocking.

I figure his offense will come with due time, and he's still got some nifty passes left in him. But I find his performances pretty puzzling as he doesn't look motivated at all out there.

[Kawhitstorm]

I strongly dislike Pau and opposed the signing, but people are overreacting to his poor start, tbh..he'll never be mobile, of course, but his offense should improve immensely once hes comfortable..

Pau's best assets is being a stretch 5 at this point of his career but Porker is essentially being phased out of the offense & doesn't even run 1-5 PnRs or the his trademark loop.

Dribble hand-offs w/ Pau/Kawhi might be the way to go similar to how Pau/Butler ran it in Chicago. I'm not even sure what Tony's role in the offense is this season other than running occasional PnPs w/ LMA, other than that he has been looking to score when the play breaks down.

[MaNu4Tres]

But can his offense overcome his horrible defense? That's my biggest concern. We are only two games in, but whatever we can get from Pau on offense he gives right back on the other end. There isn't a single positive thing I can see about his defense. I always heard horror stories about his defense but this is just straight up shocking.

I figure his offense will come with due time, and he's still got some nifty passes left in him. But I find his performances pretty puzzling as he doesn't look motivated at all out there.

I said this back in July. The usage wasn't going to be there on the offensive end and that's where his value is directly tied to.

I wanted Harkless/ trade for Taj.


It's very early though. Hopefully his play is tied to his conditioning and he provides more on both ends as the season goes along.

[Kawhitstorm]

But can his offense overcome his horrible defense? That's my biggest concern. We are only two games in, but whatever we can get from Pau on offense he gives right back on the other end. There isn't a single positive thing I can see about his defense. I always heard horror stories about his defense but this is just straight up shocking.

I figure his offense will come with due time, and he's still got some nifty passes left in him. But I find his performances pretty puzzling as he doesn't look motivated at all out there.

He doesn't play defense when he isn't getting touches on offense, he basically cruised the entire season in 2012-13. He wasn't anywhere near this bad in the Olympics & that was only 2 months ago.

[pgardn]

Not yet.


He makes our second team strong it appears. AND he was in at the end of the game at least forcing Cousins to hit long shots and challenging him physically. These are the nights he is useful. If it is a game that requires some finesse and guile, we will see. The refs don't like Cousins all that much so we can beat on him a bit.

[MaNu4Tres]

Pau's best assets is being a stretch 5 at this point of his career but Porker is essentially being phased out of the offense & doesn't even run 1-5 PnRs or the his trademark loop.

Dribble hand-offs w/ Pau/Kawhi might be the way to go similar to how Pau/Butler ran it in Chicago. I'm not even sure what Tony's role in the offense is this season other than running occasional PnPs w/ LMA, other than that he has been looking to score when the play breaks down.

Parker doesn't move the same without the ball. Tonight he was sleepwalking around screens.

I'll be shocked if Spurs go into next year w/ him starting still.

[Obstructed_View]

Parker doesn't move the same without the ball. Tonight he was sleepwalking around screens.

I'll be shocked if Spurs go into next year w/ him starting still.

Agree. One of two things is going on: Something is really wrong with him, or Pop has him saving himself (which we even heard about last year). My money is on the former just because he hasn't shown up when needed anytime recently.

How did Parker look in international ball this summer?

[Kawhitstorm]

Parker doesn't move the same without the ball. Tonight he was sleepwalking around screens.

I'll be shocked if Spurs go into next year w/ him starting still.

You know he's going to ask for a Kirby style send off::lol

[Kawhitstorm]

Agree. One of two things is going on: Something is really wrong with him, or Pop has him saving himself (which we even heard about last year). My money is on the former just because he hasn't shown up when needed anytime recently.

How did Parker look in international ball this summer?

Raymond Felton looks like an All-Star compared to Porker, I can't believe PATFO passed on him when Doc Rivers signed him to be the 5th guard for the vet minimum.

[Solid D]

Dedmon with the goods @ +21.

[SpurPadre]

It's way too early to write off Pau and I think he'll come through for us. But just a thought: imagine a trade of he and Anderson for Zbo and Tony Allen. I think we'd be clear favorites but it might piss off LMA because he'd move to the 5 unless Zbo comes off the bench with Dedmon starting. Oh well, not gonna happen so we'll have to make due with Pau...and he'll come around eventually.

[Darius Bieber]

It's way too early to write off Pau and I think he'll come through for us. But just a thought: imagine a trade of he and Anderson for Zbo and Tony Allen. I think we'd be clear favorites but it might piss off LMA because he'd move to the 5 unless Zbo comes off the bench with Dedmon starting. Oh well, not gonna happen so we'll have to make due with Pau...and he'll come around eventually.

:lmaoEven the Grizzlies aren't stupid enough to do that trade

[SpurPadre]

:lmaoEven the Grizzlies aren't stupid enough to do that trade

Gasol brothers together would be good marketing and if their season is lost, we've seen worse trades, tbh.

[james evans]

Don't be too harsh on Pau. Slow bigs past their primes can still be effective defenders in the Spurs system, for example, Duncan. But Duncan knew the defensive schemes perfectly while Gasol is still learning. Give him until mid season to adjust.
Gasol wasn't even a good defender in his prime. Now you have a lineup for the next 3 weeks with Gasol, Parker, Aldridge and Anderson. Dammit man.

[playbonner15]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whKRZ5eQvaE

[spursistan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whKRZ5eQvaE

@ :30 sec yelling "get this shit out of here, okay" after the block :lol

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whKRZ5eQvaE

Last play, Parker continued lowlights led to one of his highlights.

[Chinook]

:lmaoEven the Grizzlies aren't stupid enough to do that trade

Spurs would never include Anderson for that poopoo platter. Z-Bo for Pau is fair. I'd include nothing to make that happen.

[r0drig0lac]

@ :30 sec yelling "get this shit out of here, okay" after the block :lol

alpha

[LaMarcus Bryant]

I don't think Pau will be a liability defensively against big-oriented teams and matchups. With a lamarcus, a kawhi, a green on the court in front of him? I just don't see how Pau can't be a great center with that kinda help.

I am not hitting panic mode on him not even close.

[playbonner15]

Dude-mon showed he worked on those jumpshots. I hope Pop rests Pau sometime and let Dude-monsta beast

[John B]

Somehow he reminds of the Admiral, his atleticism. I don't think we had an athletic big since DRob.

[Raven]

we are not a high paced team, there is no reason to start dedmon, but it's great that we can actually entertain the idea

[AFBlue]

Overreaction thread is overreactive. Pau is a much more well-rounded player than Dedmon. Dedmon plays a great role off the bench as part of the "Juice unit." Spurs are 3-0 and Pau is finding his way. You know the old saying...

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[GSH]

I have to admit, I thought this was ridiculous when the thread was started. I like Dedmon's intensity and defense, and Pau SHOULD be able to go wild against bench players. I don't know how Dedmon would stack up against starters, but I'd like to see Pop give it a try.

[james evans]

I have to admit, I thought this was ridiculous when the thread was started. I like Dedmon's intensity and defense, and Pau SHOULD be able to go wild against bench players. I don't know how Dedmon would stack up against starters, but I'd like to see Pop give it a try.
There is no way on earth his defense can possibly be worse than Gasol's against the league's starting centers. It just can't be.

[james evans]

Overreaction thread is overreactive. Pau is a much more well-rounded player than Dedmon. Dedmon plays a great role off the bench as part of the "Juice unit." Spurs are 3-0 and Pau is finding his way. You know the old saying...

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
It's definitely broke now

[dabom]

You don't want big men to wear out. Gasol is pacing himself, but dedmon is the real deal.

[playbonner15]

This is becoming more obvious not just to Spurs fans but almost all the viewers. Only Pop is too stubborn as always..

[GSH]

You don't want big men to wear out. Gasol is pacing himself, but dedmon is the real deal.


I like that. "Pacing himself". I was thinking, "Pau is a lazy fuck who coasts through stretches of just about every game. Hopefully he won't do it in the playoffs." But your way sounds nicer. :lol

[exstatic]

Most nights, Dedmon is a foul machine who couldn't stay on the floor in a starters role. He averages 2.4 fouls in just under 15 minutes. That's pretty horrendous. He needs to clean up his defensive bad habits. As Sean would say, a 7 footer should not be reaching, he should use his length.

[GSH]

Most nights, Dedmon is a foul machine who couldn't stay on the floor in a starters role. He averages 2.4 fouls in just under 15 minutes. That's pretty horrendous. He needs to clean up his defensive bad habits. As Sean would say, a 7 footer should not be reaching, he should use his length.


Actually, since Dedmon came back from his injury, he's been averaging about 4.8 PF/36 minutes. Tiago averaged 4.4 his first two seasons. Blair spent two years as a starter averaging 4.4. Stephen Jackson's first year here, he averaged 4.6, and Malik Rose averaged 5.1 for his whole freaking career.

I don't disagree that Dedmon is still fouling a bit much, and maybe it would be worse against starters. But I like the fact that he is aggressive and tough on defense. There's a reason why Pau is only picking up a couple of fouls a game - he spends too much of his time playing matador. And he's NEVER a factor in transition D.

Maybe you're right, and it wouldn't work. But I'd like to see.

[TheDoctor]

Kyle's no-look-half-court-lob-pass to Ded was dope tbh

[MI21]

Actually, since Dedmon came back from his injury, he's been averaging about 4.8 PF/36 minutes. Tiago averaged 4.4 his first two seasons. Blair spent two years as a starter averaging 4.4. Stephen Jackson's first year here, he averaged 4.6, and Malik Rose averaged 5.1 for his whole freaking career.

I don't disagree that Dedmon is still fouling a bit much, and maybe it would be worse against starters. But I like the fact that he is aggressive and tough on defense. There's a reason why Pau is only picking up a couple of fouls a game - he spends too much of his time playing matador. And he's NEVER a factor in transition D.

Maybe you're right, and it wouldn't work. But I'd like to see.

IIRC exstatic thought Errors was going to be a significant contributor :lol

We all get things wrong, but Errors was awful from the beginning, there was no way to confuse how bad he was.

[SAGirl]

Kyle's no-look-half-court-lob-pass to Ded was dope tbh
He's fun to watch for sure.
I do hope Spurs keep him... but I am not so sure they will be able to. So we have to enjoy watching him this season:

809775131501285376

[Ice009]

I want to get really, really excited about Dedmon, but I'm holding back because I'm worried he's going to leave. I love defense and am really, really excited with what he's shown on that end of the floor. He's also getting better on offense too. Great signing. A few of the posters here on Spurstalk wanted him before most of us (including me) even knew who the heck he was.

[Mnky]

I want to get really, really excited about Dedmon, but I'm holding back because I'm worried he's going to leave. I love defense and am really, really excited with what he's shown on that end of the floor. He's also getting better on offense too. Great signing. A few of the posters here on Spurstalk wanted him before most of us (including me) even knew who the heck he was.

Unless he gets a big head, I doubt they let him leave. He's still very much a system player. His weaknesses haven't really improved. He's just getting better at what he does well with a better supporting cast as should be expected.

[Chinook]

They say the MLE might be twice the size it was this year. That should be enough to keep him if he wants to stay.

[duncan2k5]

bench mob would be better off with pau, starters better off with dedmon...whats the debate?

[playbonner15]

Im thinking Gasol might be better paired with Dedmon in the starting lineup vs Aldridge-Dedmon combo that we're seeing currently

[UZER]

You don't lose your starting job to injury.

:pop:

[spursistan]

Top 5 teams in Defensive rating since Pau got injured (1/19/2017):

1- Spurs 98.4

2- Jazz 102.8

3- Wizards 102.8

4- Warriors 103.0

5- Heat 103.4

[SpursFan86]

Top 5 teams in Defensive rating since Pau got injured (1/19/2017):

1- Spurs 98.4

2- Jazz 102.8

3- Wizards 102.8

4- Warriors 103.0

5- Heat 103.4

To be fair, aren't we like 20th offensively since Pau went down? We've also had a pretty easy schedule in that span...we played the Cavs once and then a struggling Raptors team. Outside of that, seems like the majority of our games have been against scrubs or average teams.

[james evans]

He's fun to watch for sure.
I do hope Spurs keep him... but I am not so sure they will be able to. So we have to enjoy watching him this season:

809775131501285376
of course we won't keep him, he's playing too good. We'll throw throw $10 million a year at Mills and give Ginobli another $14 million severance package

[Hoops Czar]

Top 5 teams in Defensive rating since Pau got injured (1/19/2017):

1- Spurs 98.4

2- Jazz 102.8

3- Wizards 102.8

4- Warriors 103.0

5- Heat 103.4

To be fair, they haven't played a bunch of offensive world beaters during that stretch and when they did, the defense wasn't all that.


@ Cleveland / 3rd off. efficiency / shot 50% from the floor but couldn't make a wide open three to save their life, lucky for the Spurs / James 11-16, Irving 13-22, Thompson 7-13, Love 4-15 :lmao

@ Brooklyn / 28th offensive efficiency

@ Toronto / 4th Offensive efficiency / No Demar DeRosan

@ NO / 27th Offensive efficiency / 52% FG's and 43% from three

vs Dallas / 19th Offensive efficiency / Curry, Matthews and Barnes taking a wet shit on the Spurs defense

vs OKC / 21st Offensive efficiency

vs Philly / 30th Offensive efficiency

vs Denver / 8th Offensive efficiency

@ Memphis / 20th Offensive efficiency

@ Philly / 30th Offensive efficiency

@ Detroit / 23rd Offensive efficiency

@ NY Knicks / 15th Offensive efficiency / 50% FG%, 64% 3-point range (9-14) :lmao

@ Indiana / 14th Offensive efficiency / 48% FG%, 45% 3- point range (9-20)

@ Orlando / 29th Offensive efficiency

[kuato]

Dedmon and Pau will be a very good mix in the playoff, Dedmon is the energy the team needs in some situations and Pau's with his soft touch from 3 against tall centers, with Lee as a free rebound and defense helper, in the mix switching The Klaw, Verde and MvPelon, please freeze Parker and use Murray.

[cd021]

I would hope Dedmon continues to start but i'd doubt Pop would bring Gasol off the bench, and/or Pau would be okay with him doing so.
If he does then, I think, it might be a sign that PATFO may be interested in having him be a Spur past this season. If they are motivated enough, then Gasol may need to be moved in the off season to be able to pay to keep Dedmon.

[playbonner15]

Great move by Pop bringing Pau off the bench. Good thing an NBA coach reads ST from time to time:lol

[spursistan]

Pau has clearly found a better niche with the bench..With more ball movement, he's doubled up his 3PT FGA and is shooting an insane 61% from deep...

Pop best coaching move the entire season...

Traditional stats:

https://i.imgur.com/Uahd5MW.jpg
Advanced stats:

https://i.imgur.com/GPAySHy.jpg