PG position though 2 games

[benfti]

Mills +55
Parker -24

im not a Parker hater but fuck me, we are +79 better with Patty on the floor?

[100%duncan]

The starting lineup hasn't been that good to be fair.

[GSH]

Those are the numbers, so yeah. It doesn't mean what a lot of people think it means though. Last night, Pau and LMA were 0-4 in the first quarter, and Dedmon was 4-4 in the first quarter. And it's not like Pau and LMA didn't get any shots - they just couldn't hit anything. That will fuck up the numbers quite a lot.

There's no doubt, though, that Patty's speed and Parker's lack of speed were on display. But it's hard to say what the King's starters would have done to Patty's effectiveness. I'm pretty sure the +/- gap wouldn't be nearly as big. But the real question is what the gap in the final scores would look like.

[SAGirl]

I think Pop is experimenting with Patty. Last game he seemed to want to close the game out with Patty and he played until around 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter. At that point, Pop brought Tony back in. The game was close enough that an untimely TO or missed possession would have mattered. Tony played well to close out the game, but the PG issue will be interesting to watch bc Patty has made public his ambition to want to start in the NBA.

[gambit1990]

brought the subject up earlier:

after two games:




MP
PER
TS%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
TOV%
WS/48
OBPM
DBPM
BPM
VORP
salary left on contract


tony
52
4.3
.388
3.3
14.6
1.0
10.7
.026
-5.4
-1.3
-6.8
-0.1
$29.8 million


patty
41
18.4
.531
2.8
20.4
4.9
0.0
.235
3.2
0.3
3.6
0.1
$3.5 million

[EIC]

Parker and Pau are gigantic holes in the starting lineup right now. I think Pau will improve as he gets more comfortable with the team's schemes. But Parker is what he is at this point, unfortunately.

[Spurtacular]

The starting lineup hasn't been that good to be fair.

With two all-stars and an MVP candidate; who we blaming here?

[tholdren]

any lineup that has Parker and Gasol is bound for shit.

[Mugen]

Can't believe we are only at -24 tbh.

[lefty]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/oooh.gif

[Nathan89]

With two all-stars and an MVP candidate; who we blaming here?

The blame is on Tony, KA, and Pau obviously(who gives a damn that he was an all-star). Somewhat LMA as well.

[Fireball]

Parker sucked but I do not think Patty played good against the Kings either ... our PG position is weak.

[SAGirl]

Parker sucked but I do not think Patty played good against the Kings either ... our PG position is weak.
I agree. I think Dedmon's impact on defense has been the biggest factor in point differential than the PG play.

It is early in the season though. Tonight it's a chance to see some rookies in comparison. The Pelicans don't have a lot of talent currently though aside of Davis...

[TD 21]

I think Pop is experimenting with Patty. Last game he seemed to want to close the game out with Patty and he played until around 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter. At that point, Pop brought Tony back in. The game was close enough that an untimely TO or missed possession would have mattered. Tony played well to close out the game, but the PG issue will be interesting to watch bc Patty has made public his ambition to want to start in the NBA.

I wouldn't read into that. Mills didn't say he wanted to start unprompted, he said it in response to a question pertaining to it. Of course he answered in the affirmative; who wouldn't? It he didn't, his competitiveness and ambition would be in question, since starting is typically associated with more minutes and money.

Since he's not a starter and it's highly unlikely any team will view him as such, his role should and probably would be the same anywhere. Given his affinity for the organization and the fact that they're an elite team, if the money was relatively equal (not saying it necessarily will be), he'd probably stay.

[SAGirl]

I wouldn't read into that. Mills didn't say he wanted to start unprompted, he said it in response to a question pertaining to it. Of course he answered in the affirmative; who wouldn't? It he didn't, his competitiveness and ambition would be in question, since starting is typically associated with more minutes and money.

Since he's not a starter and it's highly unlikely any team will view him as such, his role should and probably would be the same anywhere. Given his affinity for the organization and the fact that they're an elite team, if the money was relatively equal (not saying it necessarily will be), he'd probably stay.Your guess is as good as mine on this. It's really unknown right now what the off-season holds, it's too early. I think he's sincere in his aspirations, but he did say that wasn't a controlling factor as well. For this season, it wouldn't surprise me to see Pop place him in previously unfamiliar situations. They are giving him more ballhandling and PNR playmaking opportunities. It's just one of those things to watch out for IMO...

[ElNono]

Tony is obviously tired/injured, tbh.... he's getting some rest tonight...

[TD 21]

Your guess is as good as mine on this. It's really unknown right now what the off-season holds, it's too early. I think he's sincere in his aspirations, but he did say that wasn't a controlling factor as well. For this season, it wouldn't surprise me to see Pop place him in previously unfamiliar situations. They are giving him more ballhandling and PNR playmaking opportunities. It's just one of those things to watch out for IMO...

Of course he's sincere in his aspirations, but I think he's realistic enough to know that he's not viewed as a starter and this is just a cliche response.

[dabom]

Tony is obviously tired/injured, tbh.... he's getting some rest tonight...

Season just started. :lol

[dabom]

Your guess is as good as mine on this. It's really unknown right now what the off-season holds, it's too early. I think he's sincere in his aspirations, but he did say that wasn't a controlling factor as well. For this season, it wouldn't surprise me to see Pop place him in previously unfamiliar situations. They are giving him more ballhandling and PNR playmaking opportunities. It's just one of those things to watch out for IMO...

There is a difference between a guess and an educated assumption. You not there yet.

[kobyz]

At this point, i think even when it's 2022, FO will still not address the Parker starting PG situation...

[itzsoweezee]

Starting lineup is doing much better in the scoring department with Patty starting. Not a surprise at all.

You don't need stats to see if massive difference between Patty and Parker in terms of energy. Other than a few minutes against Golden State, Tony has basically looked like a walking corpse out there. It's Speedy Mills versus Zombie Parker.

[raybies]

Starting lineup is doing much better in the scoring department with Patty starting. Not a surprise at all.

You don't need stats to see if massive difference between Patty and Parker in terms of energy. Other than a few minutes against Golden State, Tony has basically looked like a walking corpse out there. It's Speedy Mills versus Zombie Parker.

Yeah and I like Patty willingness to get the ball moving. There was much better ball movement too.

[raybies]

Lol Nico might be better than Tony...

[SAGirl]

Lol Nico might be better than Tony...
I have loved Nicooooooooo :tu

[Spurs9]

Spurs need to trade Parker, Spurs better not let Nico go after this season, he looks legit.

[Mnky]

I was wondering why Pop started Mills instead. He usually doesn't mess the rotation up, but I guess Mills would allow the new starter in pau to mesh quicker since he knows the system alread.

I saw some bad body language plays from Parker last game with the starters, where he seemed to be passive aggressive with his ball movement. Maybe hea getting benched to cool him out too. No telling.

Nico seems legit. Want to see him against legitimate pg threats.

[lefty]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/oooh.gif

[TrainOfThought5]

Spurs need to trade Parker, Spurs better not let Nico go after this season, he looks legit.

Im sliding from being apathetic about Parkers presence to negative. Trading him may be the best option for the team. The only question is who replaces him, who would want him, and what would we want back in return?

[picnroll]

I enjoyed Parker's play for years but truthfully he's done, and not unexpectedly. Small guards who rely on speed don't age well and Parker didn't/couldn't develop the shooting skills to make himself useful when he slowed down. Mills and Nico look like our best PG rotation this year. I, like most, however, doubt Pop will be willing to go that way though. Loyalty is his flaw/strength, a significant part of Spur's culture

[ceds]

Its time for him to start so we can all see what he's capable of.

After the 2014 playoffs (his FIRST season of regular backup minutes) he was poised for a breakout year but then shoulder surgery derailed him.

Now after another very strong showing again at the Olympics he is currently in peak physical condition.... Clearly our fastest player and he is now also + defender.

If he has his shot back circa 14 then 20 & 5 might be possible at 35 mins....They have different attributes but im thinking he would have production similar to the Pistons PG (Jackson) with starter mins and as a 3rd option.

In any case ....we need to see what he can do if turned loose as a starter.. He has served his apprenticeship and It is time for him to get the opportunity as a starter.

would TP accept a bench role like manu??....If not its time to put some feelers out to teams like Philly and try to get some value before its too late.

[Joseph Kony]

I've never been a Parker hater but honestly at this point if the Spurs want to have a chance at winning a title they need to find something to do with him. Because he is really providing nothing out there at this point

[GSH]

If you include playoffs, I think Parker has the fourth most minutes of any PG in NBA history. (I didn't take the time to make sure that's accurate, but it's at least close.) In between NBA seasons, he's logged big minutes playing for the FNT. He may talk about wanting to play 5 more years, but he's got to know he's coming to the end. If Patty steps up and shows that he's the better choice to start, I would expect Parker to be professional enough to accept the transition and help to make it happen.

If he doesn't fuck him.

[SAGirl]

I think Tony doesn't fit the bench either with their current personnel. They have 2 bigs that roll and like the paint, Simmons is a slasher when you play him at his best. They only have 2 floor spacers in Manu and Patty, and if you take Patty and place Tony there, they will be cramped + Tony will take the ball away from either more creative passers like Manu, or better finishers in the paint like Simmons.

Moreover, Tony's passing seems of the choreographed variety. At this point he can run sets and plays... the bench doesn't play like that, they are free wheeling. Maybe they can make it work, but I tend to think Pop will keep trying to make the SL work with Tony but this might truly be his last season starting.

Patty is going to continue to get chances to develop his playmaking with the starters. He has that ambition to start and ppl may disagree on his ultimate potential, but Pop is going to give him opportunities to start when Tony is resting, whereas in the past, he left Patty in the bench and bumped up some other 3rd string PG, like CoJo and Ray Mac. By now, I think Patty has earned the chance to start getting himself tested against starters when Tony is unavailable and his impending FA means Pop wants to keep him happy if they foresee re-signing him.

It is early in the season and the Pellies game had very little backcourt talent, but I do expect Patty to at least keep getting the nod with the starters when Tony is not available and for Laprovittola to be the backup PG then. Lapro's passing skills and his own creativity has meshed very well with the bench.

In general the team looks very good, but Tony's role with the starters is not very clear. He needs to shoot the 3 more and needs to learn to play off other ppl like a true roleplayer. Can he do that?

[TimDunkem]

No. He'll continue to take bad shots, over-dribble while ignoring Kawhi, miss guys on the fastbreak, and pout when he has to sit on the bench. I'll be shocked if any of that changes.

[gambit1990]

No. He'll continue to take bad shots, over-dribble while ignoring Kawhi, miss guys on the fastbreak, and pout when he has to sit on the bench. I'll be shocked if any of that changes.
can't stand that. and he does it all the time. he wants the spurs to play at his speed.

[SASdynasty!]

Mills +55
Parker -24

im not a Parker hater but fuck me, we are +79 better with Patty on the floor?
Wow, using plus minus to compare a starter to a bench warmer. Why don't we bring Boban back into the conversation so you can see how much better he was than Duncan or Kawhi last year while you're at it.

[TimDunkem]

can't stand that. and he does it all the time. he wants the spurs to play at his speed.
He does it almost every game. He'll choose to try and use his ever declining speed to try and beat others to the basket when he can either hand it off to someone running with him or someone standing wide open at the three point line. I've lost track of how many times he's done the latter to guys like Danny, for example. :lol

[gambit1990]

Wow, using plus minus to compare a starter to a bench warmer.
last game tp played in: 4 points on 0 for 6 shooting, 2 assists.

last game patty played in (as a starter): 18 points on 6 of 9 shooting, 5 assists.

[K...]

I have not been against starting patty for at least since the 15 playoffs. The problem is that the low information posters don't ever acknowledge that Patty is a great fit with the bench, we don't need a dynamic PG if we play though KL and LMA; and Patty sucks on defense.

[BackHome]

I have never been on the little bandwagon of "Tony Sucks" he has done a lot for us and we won a lot of games because of him. But after watching the end of last year and the beginning of this year it is clear that his skills have diminished. It happens to everyone as they get old I hope this will be his last year because I don't think he will give us anything next year.

[still.focused]

I have not been against starting patty for at least since the 15 playoffs. The problem is that the low information posters don't ever acknowledge that Patty is a great fit with the bench, we don't need a dynamic PG if we play though KL and LMA; and Patty sucks on defense.


You forgot too mention that Patty fits great with the starters just as well
Meanwhile Parker doesnt fit great with the starters
Parker doesnt fit wit the bench either
And Parker is even worse on defense
I could care less if Patty starts or not but he should definitely be getting the bulk of the minutes as the more productive player
Parker can provide little to this team the way hes playing
Hes basically starting because hes Pops son
Which while endearing is not worth losing Mills

[DAF86]

Wow, using plus minus to compare a starter to a bench warmer. Why don't we bring Boban back into the conversation so you can see how much better he was than Duncan or Kawhi last year while you're at it.

Dude, give it a rest. For ever. We all know Tony is done.

[ceds]

Not only does he need to be given the chance to start....He should also be the 3rd scoring option on this team.

Is there anyone here that thinks TP is the better defender?

[noles1983]

Tony is a fucking turd anchor weighing this team down

[ElNono]

Props to Pop for closing with Patty in a tight game, tbh...

[gambit1990]

Props to Pop for closing with Patty in a tight game, tbh...
no doubt. hopefully pop gets around to opting not to open with parker and not to close with him either.

[Snaq O'Meal]

no doubt. hopefully pop gets around to opting not to open with parker and not to close with him either.

That's not gonna happen.

[K...]

That's not gonna happen.

doesn't even need to. KAwhi is going to iso in crunch time anyway so who ever is PG is just going to bring the ballup dump it off and get ready to defend.

[DAF86]

doesn't even need to. KAwhi is going to iso in crunch time anyway so who ever is PG is just going to bring the ballup dump it off and get ready to defend.

If the defense collapse, we need a guy that is able to hit shots.

[PopTheGOAT]

Parker is going to play this season and be the starter, whether we like it or not. Everyone who isn't delusional can agree that Patty is clearly better at this point. However, moving Patty to the starting lineup would shake up chemistry. Leave parker as the starter and bring Patty in early and often.

One thing is for sure: We need Dejounte Murray to get adjusted fast. If he can learn the offense and be what he is capable of being...damn. Here's to hoping :toast

[SAGirl]

does anyone care to update this through 4 games?

[gambit1990]

does anyone care to update this through 4 games?
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255957&page=21

see post #610.

[SAGirl]

Wow. It wouldn't surprise me if Pop started to make an effort to get Tony going somehow in an upcoming game, get him shots. He needs to bounce back somehow. I know Danny will help the SL, but Danny is low usage, his impact is greatest on defense and Kyle is not getting in Tony's way TBH... Tony is responsible for his own play.... He's got to catch a rhythm, otherwise the talk of benching him for real stops being hypothetical.

Tony may just read spurstalk like J.Simms and bounce back from this..

[kaji157]

Wow. It wouldn't surprise me if Pop started to make an effort to get Tony going somehow in an upcoming game, get him shots. He needs to bounce back somehow. I know Danny will help the SL, but Danny is low usage, his impact is greatest on defense and Kyle is not getting in Tony's way TBH... Tony is responsible for his own play.... He's got to catch a rhythm, otherwise the talk of benching him for real stops being hypothetical.

Tony may just read spurstalk like J.Simms and bounce back from this..


We can only hope.

[SAGirl]

It's chilling but Tony tonight was paired with a dynamic and athletic SG in Simmons. His performance is definitely on him. If anything the team misses Danny bc he covered up for so much on defense.


14
Tony Parker (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html)





Rk
Player
Age
G
MP
PER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%

OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48

OBPM
DBPM
BPM
VORP
▼


1
Kawhi Leonard (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01.html)
25
5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01/gamelog/2017/)
161
37.1
.659
.250
.511
2.0
13.6
7.5
23.4
4.8
0.6
7.7
32.8

1.1
0.3
1.4
.416

12.4
1.7
14.1
0.7


2
David Lee (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02.html)
33
5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02/gamelog/2017/)
82
24.3
.636
.000
.269
14.6
26.6
20.3
10.2
2.5
1.1
9.4
17.7

0.3
0.1
0.5
.284

4.4
2.4
6.7
0.2


3
Patrick Mills (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa02.html)
28
5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa02/gamelog/2017/)
105
24.8
.681
.605
.093
2.1
2.3
2.2
21.6
2.4
0.0
6.3
20.6

0.5
0.1
0.6
.277

9.3
-2.7
6.6
0.2


4
Pau Gasol (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html)
36
5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01/gamelog/2017/)
118
17.0
.514
.116
.093
4.6
32.9
18.0
16.6
0.4
4.5
10.0
19.1

0.1
0.2
0.3
.138

-0.8
3.5
2.7
0.1


5
Dewayne Dedmon (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dedmode01.html)
27
5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dedmode01/gamelog/2017/)
85
20.1
.532
.000
.545
18.0
28.5
23.0
1.8
1.2
8.3
6.8
15.6

0.2
0.2
0.4
.243

-0.4
3.1
2.6
0.1


6
Kyle Anderson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anderky01.html)
23
5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anderky01/gamelog/2017/)
110
8.3
.504
.313
.125
2.0
20.9
11.0
6.2
1.9
2.4
19.2
8.6

0.0
0.2
0.2
.073

-2.2
3.9
1.7
0.1


7
Davis Bertans (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bertada01.html)
24
3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bertada01/gamelog/2017/)
33
17.6
.778
.667
.000
6.6
11.0
8.7
0.0
0.0
8.1
18.2
15.1

0.1
0.0
0.1
.172

2.2
0.2
2.4
0.0


8
Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)
39
4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01/gamelog/2017/)
91
8.9
.439
.500
.156
2.4
17.3
9.5
19.6
2.2
1.0
20.8
21.5

-0.1
0.1
0.0
-0.002

-2.2
1.4
-0.8
0.0


9
LaMarcus Aldridge (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01.html)
31
4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01/gamelog/2017/)
127
20.2
.520
.081
.371
9.4
17.2
13.1
6.9
0.4
1.4
4.0
26.7

0.3
0.1
0.5
.179

0.9
-2.0
-1.1
0.0


10
Nicolas Laprovittola (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/laproni01.html)
27
4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/laproni01/gamelog/2017/)
27
10.3
.554
.600
.600
0.0
18.0
8.5
31.3
0.0
0.0
24.0
13.9

0.0
0.0
0.1
.105

-0.4
-1.8
-2.2
0.0


11
Jonathon Simmons (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simmojo02.html)
27
5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simmojo02/gamelog/2017/)
127
9.2
.460
.233
.256
1.7
10.5
5.9
15.8
0.4
1.4
11.1
19.2

0.0
0.1
0.1
.038

-1.9
-0.6
-2.5
0.0


12
Bryn Forbes (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/forbebr01.html)
23
3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/forbebr01/gamelog/2017/)
19
1.8
.333
.333
.000
0.0
6.4
3.0
0.0
2.7
0.0
0.0
7.1

0.0
0.0
0.0
.016

-3.7
1.0
-2.6
0.0


13
Dejounte Murray (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murrade01.html)
20
2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murrade01/gamelog/2017/)
10
-14.2
.000
.500
1.000
0.0
24.2
11.5
12.8
0.0
0.0
25.8
17.5

-0.1
0.0
-0.1
-0.388

-14.5
-0.1
-14.6
0.0


14
Tony Parker (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html)
34
4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01/gamelog/2017/)
106
5.2
.420
.167
.208
0.0
9.1
4.3
21.3
0.5
0.8
18.6
13.7

-0.1
0.1
0.0
.013

-3.5
-0.7
-4.1
-0.1





Salaries

[aal04]

Tp gonna get a 3 year Kobe farewell tour Treatment.

[DenialTwist]

Starting lineup is doing much better in the scoring department with Patty starting. Not a surprise at all.

You don't need stats to see if massive difference between Patty and Parker in terms of energy. Other than a few minutes against Golden State, Tony has basically looked like a walking corpse out there. It's Speedy Mills versus Zombie Parker.

You're being too kind. Tony has looked worse than a walking corpse. He's practically a ghost. You don't see his impact at all. Notice when he has the ball, he dribbles around as long as he can because he probably feels he'll never see it again. I think he is disinterested out there because he is the veteran but not the leader.

[SASdynasty!]

You're being too kind. Tony has looked worse than a walking corpse. He's practically a ghost. You don't see his impact at all. Notice when he has the ball, he dribbles around as long as he can because he probably feels he'll never see it again. I think he is disinterested out there because he is the veteran but not the leader.
Crazy that a walking corpse is leading the team in assists.

[RD2191]

You're being too kind. Tony has looked worse than a walking corpse. He's practically a ghost. You don't see his impact at all. Notice when he has the ball, he dribbles around as long as he can because he probably feels he'll never see it again. I think he is disinterested out there because he is the veteran but not the leader.

Mods please bold this poster.