Leonard deserves better...Pop needs to get over himself.

[apalisoc_9]

Let me just address all the cliche losers that would post "but its al about the team" " he doesnt care" "I'd rather win a championship"

It's pretty darn clear playing at a level he is playing right now that Leonard clearly has individual award aspirations. David Robinson used to stat pad a lot, and Timmy averaged 39-40 mpgs in his mid 20's and would routinly play even when the game was WAY out of hand.

Those minutes timmy played is clear indication that he cared a lot about inidvidual accolades in his mid 20.....

Actually any player does. You would have to be an extreme a casual delusioneal to think otherwise..or you're too caught up with narrative BS that spurs Players dont care and that they are so humble and so team oriented they dont care about themselves at all. (70% of casual spursfans believe this :lmao)

Today was the perfect example of how Pop needs to get over himself. He's the best coach in the NBA, but the spurs have lost so many games.. the old man is so stubborn in so many way....Not playing Duncan in the OKC series, Benching Duncan etc.

Leonard again is on pace to average less than 31 mpg as a 25 year old. The blwouts are going to come and he's going to end up playing more 22-25mpg than he would be playing 35+....

This attitude of his is also refelctive with how He couls haved used splitter in 2011 but he was so stubborn and full of ego.

It just seems like he does so many things that soley benefits his reputation alone....

Promising Kyle Anderson a bigger role? Ouch.

[100%duncan]

I wanted him to pad more stats but I realized they have a road game in less than 24 hrs.

[DarrinS]

Didn't read your post. You have to limit Kawhi's minutes. I want him around for a long time.

[UZER]

Let me just address all the cliche losers that would post "but its al about the team" " he doesnt care" "I'd rather win a championship"

It's pretty darn clear playing at a level he is playing right now that Leonard clearly has individual award aspirations. David Robinson used to stat pad a lot, and Timmy averaged 39-40 mpgs in his mid 20's and would routinly play even when the game was WAY out of hand.

Those minutes timmy played is clear indication that he cared a lot about inidvidual accolades in his mid 20.....

Actually any player does. You would have to be an extreme a casual delusioneal to think otherwise..or you're too caught up with narrative BS that spurs Players dont care and that they are so humble and so team oriented they dont care about themselves at all. (70% of casual spursfans believe this :lmao)

Today was the perfect example of how Pop needs to get over himself. He's the best coach in the NBA, but the spurs have lost so many games.. the old man is so stubborn in so many way....Not playing Duncan in the OKC series, Benching Duncan etc.

Leonard again is on pace to average less than 31 mpg as a 25 year old. The blwouts are going to come and he's going to end up playing more 22-25mpg than he would be playing 35+....

This attitude of his is also refelctive with how He couls haved used splitter in 2011 but he was so stubborn and full of ego.

It just seems like he does so many things that soley benefits his reputation alone....

Promising Kyle Anderson a bigger role? Ouch.

I'll probably get bashed for it but I agree and have said this myself before. You've got to get the body used to playing 35-38 min a game throughout the season. It's a stamina you have to build over time. You've can't just flip that switch in the playoffs when the intensity goes up by 10 on every possession and just expect to tack on 8-10 more minutes per game. This is something that Phil Jackson understood.

They are definitely nights to take off, so it's not necessarily this game. It's just more so that Pop micro manages this stuff to a fault.

[spurraider21]

mainstream regular season fans tbh

[dbreiden83080]

Under pops guidance he has already won the finals MVP, 2 straight defensive player of the year awards and was first team all NBA. I think pop knows what he's doing. Is it really a big deal he did not get to score 25 tonight as opposed to 20? I don't think so.

[ElNono]

He's really at a disadvantage against any other MVP candidate.... Kerr only saved Curry's legs towards the end of the season, Lebron is his own GM and coach...

Pop will say "he doesn't care about that stuff"... the kid that picked the Jordan brand? Yeah, ok.

I brought this exact topic up on the game thread. Pop does need to get over himself. Not even the potential injury excuse works, he can't control that.

[100%duncan]

He's really at a disadvantage against any other MVP candidate.... Kerr only saved Curry's legs towards the end of the season, Lebron is his own GM and coach...

Pop will say "he doesn't care about that stuff"... the kid that picked the Jordan brand? Yeah, ok.

I brought this exact topic up on the game thread. Pop does need to get over himself. Not even the potential injury excuse works, he can't control that.

It's elnono so im not sure if serious or half trolling

[apalisoc_9]

I'll probably get bashed for it but I agree and have said this myself before. You've got to get the body used to playing 35-38 min a game throughout the season. It's a stamina you have to build over time. You've can't just flip that switch in the playoffs when the intensity goes up by 10 on every possession and just expect to tack on 8-10 more minutes per game. This is something that Phil Jackson understood.

They are definitely nights to take off, so it's not necessarily this game. It's just more so that Pop micro manages this stuff to a fault.

Nate Duncan, Zach Lowe and so many analyst in the OKC series


And I am paraphrasing ..Kawhi looked so gas playing 40mpg...Anyway, Pop's insistance on him playing him less than 32 minutes is really detrimental because he's never used to playing extended minutes.

[Nathan89]

All star players use to play big minutes.

[DarrinS]

It's a LONG season folks.

[apalisoc_9]

He's really at a disadvantage against any other MVP candidate.... Kerr only saved Curry's legs towards the end of the season, Lebron is his own GM and coach...

Pop will say "he doesn't care about that stuff"... the kid that picked the Jordan brand? Yeah, ok.

I brought this exact topic up on the game thread. Pop does need to get over himself. Not even the potential injury excuse works, he can't control that.

Plus, as many analyst have mentioned after the OKC loss..ensuring he plays less than 32mpg really didnt prepare him well enough when they were desperate to play him 40mpg. He looked So Gassed...


A very important aspect that Pop continues to ignore....is he really just going to play him 32mpg the whole year and expect him to play at high level for 40 in the playoffs. :lol

Also recall when everyone was pisses at POP for playing Lamarcus and Kawhi significantly less minutes than the other stars opting for the bench in OKC..only for OKC to manhandle the bench.

[BanditHiro]

Under pops guidance he has already won the finals MVP, 2 straight defensive player of the year awards and was first team all NBA. I think pop knows what he's doing. Is it really a big deal he did not get to score 25 tonight as opposed to 20? I don't think so.

it matters to the matters to the MVP voters

and in turn matters to FA like Kevin Durant. You don't think he would have considered the Spurs if Kawhi had that MVP award?

[apalisoc_9]

I'll probably get bashed for it but I agree and have said this myself before. You've got to get the body used to playing 35-38 min a game throughout the season. It's a stamina you have to build over time. You've can't just flip that switch in the playoffs when the intensity goes up by 10 on every possession and just expect to tack on 8-10 more minutes per game. This is something that Phil Jackson understood.

They are definitely nights to take off, so it's not necessarily this game. It's just more so that Pop micro manages this stuff to a fault.

Yup

[Kawhitstorm]

Today was the perfect example of how Pop needs to get over himself.

Spurs have a home/away B2B, it would be pretty dumb to play the starters against the worst supporting cast in the league when the game has been decided.

[james evans]

what will we see 1st from the spurs again while Popovich is coaching? Someone averaging 30 a game or someone playing all 82 games?

[xtremesteven33]

A liberal like Pop shouldn't be so conservative.

[james evans]

it matters to the matters to the MVP voters

and in turn matters to FA like Kevin Durant. You don't think he would have considered the Spurs if Kawhi had that MVP award?
I'm glad we didn't get Durant.

[GSH]

More than some previous years, the Spurs have some newcomers who really, really need some RS court time. We hadn't even seen Bertans or Lap in the first couple of games. He's clearly trying to give Simmons some room to improve his game. So do you cut Kyle's minutes to play Kawhi that much, or do you put him on the floor on nights when the W looks well in hand?

[dbreiden83080]

it matters to the matters to the MVP voters

and in turn matters to FA like Kevin Durant. You don't think he would have considered the Spurs if Kawhi had that MVP award?

What matters to the MVP voters? This man was the first team all NBA last season. Stat padding? He is going to be a legit MVP candidate all season long without stat padding.

[dbreiden83080]

And in terms of the MVP Russell Westbrook is going to be taking an insane amount of shots all season long. He will win the scoring title easily. MVP voters hopefully aren't so stupid to only look at the man's scoring average.

[Em-City]

Standard un-Spurs-like player-fan post. You are a kawhi fan, but your me-first attitude is more in line with Parker's ideology:

https://twitter.com/PaulGarciaPS/status/792569623027691520


Paul Garcia PS‏@PaulGarciaPS (https://twitter.com/PaulGarciaPS)

"The nights I here it is when I come to the game, but I'll never try to win an award. I'm out there playing for my team"-Kawhi on MVP chants

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Only player fans are concerned about minutes. True fans are looking for the W

[UZER]

Standard un-Spurs-like player-fan post. You are a kawhi fan, but your me-first attitude is more in line with Parker's ideology:

https://twitter.com/PaulGarciaPS/status/792569623027691520


Paul Garcia PS‏@PaulGarciaPS (https://twitter.com/PaulGarciaPS)

"The nights I here it is when I come to the game, but I'll never try to win an award. I'm out there playing for my team"-Kawhi on MVP chants


It's not about the MVP. It's about being able to carry the big load 'in the playoffs'. You can't flip the minutes switch. Kawhi looked exhausted in the OKC series.

[Arcadian]

I wanted him to pad more stats but I realized they have a road game in less than 24 hrs.

This. In general I agree that a 25-yo MVP frontrunner should be playing at least 36 mins/game...but they have another game tomorrow at 5 pm in Miami. I bet Leonard plays more in that game.

[DarrinS]

I care more about a championship than the MVP trophy, tbh.

[Em-City]

It's not about the MVP. It's about being able to carry the big load 'in the playoffs'. You can't flip the minutes switch. Kawhi looked exhausted in the OKC series.
I didn't see that mentioned anywhere in the OP. i did see OP mention Leonard's individual accolade expectations though.

[kxs783kms]

He played the same amount last year and came in 2nd in MVP voting. And probably would have won it, had not Curry and the Warriors won 73 games. He'll be fine.

[UZER]

I didn't see that mentioned anywhere in the OP. i did see OP mention Leonard's individual accolade expectations though.

Fair enough.

[YGWHI]

It's not about the MVP. It's about being able to carry the big load 'in the playoffs'. You can't flip the minutes switch. Kawhi looked exhausted in the OKC series.

Exactly.

Why Kawhi has to learn how to deal -physically and mentally- with fatigue in playoffs games when he could have the whole regular season to do it?

[Laughing Gravy]

OP,

If Kawhi cared so much about individual accolades, he would give SOME indication be it pouting, bitching, moaning, or whining.

The fact is though, he does none of this because hes not a pouty, moaning, whiny little bitch like you.

[PopTheGOAT]

I agree with the point that Kawhi needs to get his body adjusted to playing 40mpg. His jumper needs to be falling in the 48th minute of the game in the playoffs, and that's something that takes time to have happen. In games where the Spurs are trailing or have less than say, a 15 pt lead, Kawhi needs to be playing significant minutes. But in nights like tonight and the warriors game where it's a 20+ pt blowout, sit his ass down. I want to see this man play 82 games for once.

[Mnky]

Spurs have a home/away B2B, it would be pretty dumb to play the starters against the worst supporting cast in the league when the game has been decided.

[SpursIndonesia]

Spurs have a home/away B2B, it would be pretty dumb to play the starters against the worst supporting cast in the league when the game has been decided.

This. :tu

[DeRozan m8]

They flew in at 4:30am after the Kings, and have a game in Miami tomorrow.

Calm down, big fella

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Spurs play again tonight and people bitchin about Pop sitting the starters in the 4th in a BLOWOUT WIN. He didn't do it against GS if you notice when the Spurs WEREN'T playing the next night. It's great for the Spurs young guys to get some reps in games like these.

Kawhi had 16 points in the 3rd. I didn't once see Pop telling Kawhi not to shoot.

[Spur|n|Austin]

They flew in at 4:30am (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/x-apple-data-detectors://0) after the Kings, and have a game in Miami tomorrow.

Calm down, big fella

[picnroll]

Kawhi averaged 3 minutes less per game last year than Curry, 39 to 36. When the Spurs need Leonard to play big minutes, if he hasn't gotten into foul trouble, he'll play big minutes.

This is not one of the more intelligent threads.

[spursistan]

Fuckin Durant--3 years older with a foot scare-- is averaging 38 MPG over two games in a more talented team..How do you expect Kawhi to keep up with dudes who are used to play 42-45 minutes in crucial playoffs games?

[TheGreatYacht]

Talked about this in the game thread..

Patty had more shots than him at halftime. That wouldn't happen with MVParker out there tbh, at least with him Kawhi gets to have the ball more while TP stands in the corner ready to shoot if needed

[spursistan]

It's not about the MVP. It's about being able to carry the big load 'in the playoffs'. You can't flip the minutes switch. Kawhi looked exhausted in the OKC series.

[100%duncan]

Talked about this in the game thread..

Patty had more shots than him at halftime. That wouldn't happen with MVParker out there tbh, at least with him Kawhi gets to have the ball more while TP stands in the corner ready to shoot if needed

However, we all know that shit aint going down

[TheGreatYacht]

However, we all know that shit aint going down
The head of the snake is a team first player :toast

[100%duncan]

The head of the snake is a team first player :toast

I meant tony waiting on the corner for the three....

[Splits]

Faggot OP playerfan will be the first to bitch when Kawhi gets injured in meaningless garbagetime minutes

[Obstructed_View]

Personal accolades don't mean shit, and it's a stupid argument. Robinson didn't stat-pad until Luke became the coach, and Robinson was so worn out from winning the scoring title that he wasn't himself in the playoffs. Kawhi doesn't need more minutes to win MVP, he needs more free throw attempts to win it. He's well on his way this season.

The good point made is about having the wind to play more minutes during the postseason. Kawhi needs to be physically able to average 43 minutes a game in the playoffs and not be worn out. That's a completely valid concern, but I think I'm okay with him not getting his minutes in games where the Spurs are up by 25 points, especially in October. Remember that in any other season this time of the year would still be preseason.

I don't know if we've even gotten far enough into the season to tell what Pop's sub patterns are. The starting lineup has been so rotten that it's probably too early to tell what the plans are for Kawhi. This is something to keep in mind, but I don't think there's any way to tell what's going on until the end of November at the very least.

[BD24]

OP,

If Kawhi cared so much about individual accolades, he would give SOME indication be it pouting, bitching, moaning, or whining.

The fact is though, he does none of this because hes not a pouty, moaning, whiny little bitch like you.
:lol

[weebo]

3 games into the RS and you guys want this guy burnt out on minutes already. :lol

[AFBlue]

Kawhi is clearly option #1 when he's on the court. They force feed him the ball consistently in the half court and he even brings the ball up to initiate the offense at times. He's been the high scorer in every game. I don't understand the take, unless it's trolling.

[james evans]

Kawhi is clearly option #1 when he's on the court. They force feed him the ball consistently in the half court and he even brings the ball up to initiate the offense at times. He's been the high scorer in every game. I don't understand the take, unless it's trolling.
I personally believe we should run the offense through Parker. We'd be undefeated if that happened

[dbreiden83080]

BTW saying he deserves better. He could be stuck in Sacramento or playing for the damn Magic or something. He's playing for one of the great organizations, and great coaches of all time. It's a dream situation.

[spursfaninla]

Fake issue.

You offer no evidence that Kawhi was in fact exhausted any differently than he would have been all things equal in the playoffs, and no evidence, substantiation, or otherwise that playing more minutes during the RS would have helped. In fact the opposite is the case: playing more minutes during the regular season would have resulted in more wear in tear, injury, and fatigue. The season brings cumulative damage to the athlete, and if he played more, he would have been even more worn out. Hence, the current practice of playing star players less if your bench is long.

Calling Kawhi a Liar

Put aside that you are calling Kawhi a total hypocrite. Man states flatly he cares about winning, not about awards, and you say, he actually thinks the exact opposite.

You are living in the past.

Most teams are thinking longer term and have reduced their franchise player minutes, especially if you have depth like the Spurs do. If you only have starters, well yes, you are going to play them into the ground. Teams that over-play their star player almost never win championships: http://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/35752/heavy-minutes-hurt-title-chances

CASE IN POINT: Steph Curry played 32 MPG during his MVP year in 2015-16, and 34 MPG last year. Now that GS has a weak bench, yes, they probably play him more, but that is necessity. If they had the bench, they would keep him minutes down, guaranteed.

Thinking Long Term:

I would prefer that Kawhi play fewer minutes and play an extra 2-3 years, rather than have a higher peak and a shorter career, even if that means he never gets a regular season MVP. Personally, I want him to get at least one. I think he is right there. But MVP is equal parts production (as you note), and popularity contest. Kawhi has severe disadvantage in the marketing department. It is just unlikely, just like Bowen suffered for the same reason and never got a DPOY. Kawhi was just so much more dominant defensively that no one could ignore him, along with him benefiting from having a very flashy defensive style that appears visually disruptive, and being a steals machine which causal fans appreciate.

[GSH]

Faggot OP playerfan will be the first to bitch when Kawhi gets injured in meaningless garbagetime minutesl

Yep. "What was that faggot Pop thinking, leaving Kawhi in the game when it was already won? Worst coach in the league."



I don't know if we've even gotten far enough into the season to tell what Pop's sub patterns are. The starting lineup has been so rotten that it's probably too early to tell what the plans are for Kawhi. This is something to keep in mind, but I don't think there's any way to tell what's going on until the end of November at the very least.


We aren't even close to tell what Pop's sub patterns might be. There is going to be a lot of shuffling and experimenting. We haven't even scratched the surface with Bertans and Lap. I wouldn't be surprised if Pop experiments with Dedmon starting (although I don't think it will be that way for long.) They obviously believe in KA, or they wouldn't have extended him. But if he doesn't step it up, he could get shuffled down the bench. The end of November may be too soon to know. It really isn't that far off.

[SAGirl]

Fake issue.

You offer no evidence that Kawhi was in fact exhausted any differently than he would have been all things equal in the playoffs, and no evidence, substantiation, or otherwise that playing more minutes during the RS would have helped. In fact the opposite is the case: playing more minutes during the regular season would have resulted in more wear in tear, injury, and fatigue. The season brings cumulative damage to the athlete, and if he played more, he would have been even more worn out. Hence, the current practice of playing star players less if your bench is long.

Calling Kawhi a Liar

Put aside that you are calling Kawhi a total hypocrite. Man states flatly he cares about winning, not about awards, and you say, he actually thinks the exact opposite.

You are living in the past.

Most teams are thinking longer term and have reduced their franchise player minutes, especially if you have depth like the Spurs do. If you only have starters, well yes, you are going to play them into the ground. Teams that over-play their star player almost never win championships: http://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/35752/heavy-minutes-hurt-title-chances

CASE IN POINT: Steph Curry played 32 MPG during his MVP year in 2015-16, and 34 MPG last year. Now that GS has a weak bench, yes, they probably play him more, but that is necessity. If they had the bench, they would keep him minutes down, guaranteed.

Thinking Long Term:

I would prefer that Kawhi play fewer minutes and play an extra 2-3 years, rather than have a higher peak and a shorter career, even if that means he never gets a regular season MVP. Personally, I want him to get at least one. I think he is right there. But MVP is equal parts production (as you note), and popularity contest. Kawhi has severe disadvantage in the marketing department. It is just unlikely, just like Bowen suffered for the same reason and never got a DPOY. Kawhi was just so much more dominant defensively that no one could ignore him, along with him benefiting from having a very flashy defensive style that appears visually disruptive, and being a steals machine which causal fans appreciate.
:tu
Good post. I especially liked the link you shared in how teams that run their stars down to the ground rarely win championships. Keeping him healthy for the season and long postseason (hopefully) is the goal, plus in this particular case, the B2B on the road, the uber garbage time against weak competition, the need to develop a young roster that is going to support Kawhi this season and the next (some guys are in 2 year deals, others are FA after this one --Lapro and Simmons. Pop needs to know what he has there). Those guys need to play as well.

On top of that, it's October. His conditioning right now has no direct bearing in April or May...

[Solid D]

:sleep

[Solid D]

Kawhi Leonard now owns more wins (235) than any player in NBA history through his first 300 starts...and he played a big role in making that happen.

[r0drig0lac]

b2b bro..just relax

[SuperCam]

Kawhi is clearly option #1 when he's on the court. They force feed him the ball consistently in the half court and he even brings the ball up to initiate the offense at times. He's been the high scorer in every game. I don't understand the take, unless it's trolling.

OP is playerfan who is mad kiwi won't win MVP


MVP ladder through 3 games, tbh:

1. Alphabrook
2. LeKing
3. Lillard
4. Harden
5. Davis

[Solid D]

It's pretty darn clear playing at a level he is playing right now that Leonard clearly has individual award aspirations. David Robinson used to stat pad a lot, and Timmy averaged 39-40 mpgs in his mid 20's and would routinly play even when the game was WAY out of hand.
.

"It's the beginning of the season. We still can get better," Leonard said. "We want to keep going, moving forward. It's a team game. I'm going to need these guys in the playoffs to play their best basketball and be confident when they get there. [I'm] just picking and choosing where I shoot the ball, run the offense and get guys involved. I see how the defense is playing me and just go from there."

[Obstructed_View]

We aren't even close to tell what Pop's sub patterns might be. There is going to be a lot of shuffling and experimenting. We haven't even scratched the surface with Bertans and Lap. I wouldn't be surprised if Pop experiments with Dedmon starting (although I don't think it will be that way for long.) They obviously believe in KA, or they wouldn't have extended him. But if he doesn't step it up, he could get shuffled down the bench. The end of November may be too soon to know. It really isn't that far off.

What's more, it's pretty clear in the first three games that Tony Parker is the third or fourth best point guard on the team at this point at best. The starting lineup has a chance to change a lot, which will change how Kawhi is utilized.

[pgardn]

"It's the beginning of the season. We still can get better," Leonard said. "We want to keep going, moving forward. It's a team game. I'm going to need these guys in the playoffs to play their best basketball and be confident when they get there. [I'm] just picking and choosing where I shoot the ball, run the offense and get guys involved. I see how the defense is playing me and just go from there."

4 games into the season and the whining starts with the OP. I almost wish KL had not had his career high first game. The GD accolades will follow with a championship.

[ffadicted]

There's only one stat that matters, W-L

[spursistan]

Poop trotting out that shitty late 3rd/early 4th lineup while resting Kawhi :lmao..