Do you now rank LeBron ahead of Duncan on all time rankings?

[hitmantb]

Unfortunately, most media now rank LeBron ahead of Duncan after the legendary 2016 NBA finals, he is considered top 5 all-time and bumped Duncan out of Mount Rushmore which for most writers, is Jordan, Kareem, Magic and either Russell or Wilt, depend on whether you value legendary individual stats or rings on a stacked team in NBA's infancy.

If you compare MVP + FMVP + Rings, they are basically even except LeBron has 2 MVP's vs Duncan's 2 FMVP-less rings.

LeBron has record breaking stats in most categories and a body for the ages, six straight trips to the finals (even if it is in the Eastern Conference) with a seventh one in the bag barring major injuries. And he is ten-times more business savvy than Tim, makes great investments in Beats, Liverpool FC, billion dollar contract from Nike. More importantly, his business acumen makes him the first player in NBA history to play GM role and assemble superstar teams around him. First Miami Heat, then even in a small market like Cleveland he managed to put together a loaded team and slapped Pat Riley in the face. You also can't question his leadership as both Irving, Love matured before our eyes. He even made the type of players Spurs shy away from, JR Smith a great producer. We all laughed about the big contract Tristan Thompson got with 8 points and 8 rebounds, and after the 2016 finals, wow what a steal!

LeBron is an emperor, a king who takes control of his own fate and builds his own empire, exactly the way he wants it, every castle, every piece, must be micro managed. When they were down 1-3, he knew he had to do something to turn this around, and shrewdly stepped over Dreymond Green and got him to retaliate/get banned. And it triggered the dominoes of Bogut injury, Iguodala back injury, and Curry's injury worsening. It gave him a chance to win a historic game 7 and he delivered The Block and few will remember Iguodala's back injury, Green's ban or even Curry's playoff injury. They will just remember LeBron's greatness. More than beating an (injured) 73-Wins team and The Block on someone who could barely stand two nights ago, I will always remember The Step, but everyone else will just remember how he led both teams in every single stats category.

Duncan is a monk, a saint, someone who trusts the organization and leaves it all to Pop/RC Buford. Duncan is my idol, he does things the morally correct way, the old fashioned way. The fact that Spurs looks like a potential championship contender in 2016-2017 WITHOUT HIM, is the testament of his greatness and lasting impact on Spurs culture. He worked with less star power than any all time-great with 3+ championships and seriously offers so many intangibles on both end of the floor. But people will be skewed into thinking it is Pop that makes the Spurs great.

But LeBron, as much as I hate to say it, will win the individual rank over him. You may be able to argue for a tie, but at age 31, he has 50% chance of #2 all time beating Kareem and 10% chance to catch Jordan with another three-peat. And he is the first player to have complete control over his own destiny while doing so. And if any NBA player can run for the president, he is the chosen one whether you believe his public persona or not. The "City of Cleveland, I am here to save you" thing can easily turns to a campaign to save America, 20 years down the road.

[Ice009]

Not in my book. Not even close (unless they want to bump someone else out). Tim is in the top 5 after 2014. He got himself there in 2013 (he would have been the MVP of the finals as he got them in position to win it, but his teammates fucked it up for him) and cemented himself there in 2014 (was the Spurs' best player in the playoffs). Then he backed it up yet again in 2015 by being the Spurs' best player in the playoffs going against a super athletic front court of DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin. He almost got us over the line against them too, but unfortunately he had no help from his front court teammates. Who knows how far the Spurs could have gone that year too if they had of gotten past the Clippers.

To me, it's been all about Tim's teammates. He's always had to carry a heavy load and I wasn't too happy with him having to do it still as late as 2015. If his teammates took some more of that load off up to that point, we might not be having this conversation.

Lebron needs to do a little bit more to get him above Tim in my book.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

All time LeBron might be at the worst top 2-3 all time. He'll never overtake Jordan though.

[apalisoc_9]

Lebron is already the greatest Basketball player of all time.

TD is top 5 though.

[RD2191]

Tim has 5 rings. Tim played in the West against nba giants. How many rings would TD have if he had played against LeBrons competition out east from the last decade? How many rings would Tim have if he had left the Spurs to join up with two stars in their primes? (I know about Orlando)

[Robz4000]

Still have Tim ahead, but if Lebron rings this year he surpasses him.

[Kawhitstorm]

Lebron is already the greatest Basketball player of all time.

You can't be the best player of all-time when you get outscored by Jason Terry in a playoff series at the PEAK of your career.:lol

UHtuQIJ1F1U

Imagine, Jason Terry talking smack to Jorn & coming out on top:

lDBkgwZqtCs

[Arcadian]

Nope. Both top 5, but I still got Duncan > James.

[100%duncan]

Honestly, Im biased so I have tim above but Im not mad when they put lebron ahead. Not like he's kobe or something

[SuperCam]

To LeKing's credit, he has beaten two teams in the finals -- '13 spurs and 73-9 warriors -- that are vastly superior to any team Tim beat in the finals. If he plays the '99 lockout knicks and the Kidd nets in his first two finals he is sitting at 5 rings right now easy, let alone that Cavs team with Larry Hughes as the second best player :lmao

[Proxy]

LBJ solid 2

[spurraider21]

Honestly, Im biased so I have tim above but Im not mad when they put lebron ahead. Not like he's kobe or something

[r0drig0lac]

when all is said and done Lebron will have a top 3 career, Duncan still always have the advantage in h2h

[Obstructed_View]

I couldn't find the "lol" option.

[Spurtacular]

Lebron is already the greatest Basketball player of all time.

TD is top 5 though.

Wouldn't expect a less sh** take from the worst poster on ST, tbh.

[BillMc]

You actually asked two different questions. In the thread title you say "Do you now rank LeBron ahead of Duncan"? To that question, I say 'no", because of Timmy's 5 rings, 5-1 finals record (2-1 against LeBron) and defense, I put Duncan ahead.

But the poll question says "Who will be ranked higher in all time greats?" That has a future tense, as well as broadens the pool from the personal (the "you" in the title) to the general. In other words, while I personally hold Timmy higher, I suspect the media and fans at large will remember LeBron as greater than Duncan. This has more to do with hype, personality, branding, style of play, raw points, etc. It's why some fools think inefficient Kobe is even in the same breath as Duncan (or LBJ for that matter). So, I would predict that LBJ will be remembered as greater than TD by the public at large.

Anyway, I voted for TD.

[Horse]

Fuck no 2 of his rings came from 2 massive choke job and a head coach with his head up his ass

[SASdynasty!]

You can't be the best player of all-time when you get outscored by Jason Terry in a playoff series at the PEAK of your career.:lol

UHtuQIJ1F1U

Imagine, Jason Terry talking smack to Jorn & coming out on top:

lDBkgwZqtCs
Well, to be fair Terry Cummings completely dominated Jordan in the playoffs. And considering Jordan had a losing record for 1/3 of his career, it's not that far-fetched to think. Also, to think Jordan pretty much couldn't win a playoff game until he got a good team around him and definitely couldn't sniff a title until he got the GOAT coach puts some things in perspective. No one is invincible. Maybe if Lebron would have retired a few times in the middle of his career he may have avoided '11.

[Phenomanul]

One played in the "LEastern Conference" his entire career...

'nuff said...

[Brazil]

Honestly, Im biased so I have tim above but Im not mad when they put lebron ahead. Not like he's kobe or something

[Fireball]

do not know about right now, but when Lebron ends his career he will be ... sad as it is

[SuperCam]

Fuck no 2 of his rings came from 2 massive choke job and a head coach with his head up his ass

And two of Tim's rings came from the 99 knicks and 07 Cavs... some of the worst teams to ever make the finals.


LBJ has had the hardest finals opponents overall of any player since Magic, tbqh. '14 Spurs and '16 Warriors alone are much better than any team that MJ, Tim, or Kobe ever faced off against...

[lilbthebasedgod]

Anyone who has thought Duncan was better is a massive player fan.

[cd98]

Duncan has done more over a longer period of time, but Lebron gets closer every year. It's no shame because Lebron is definitely an all-time best and If he is ahead of Duncan it's because of his stellar performance last year in the finals. That Cav team, even with its talent, would struggle to make the playoffs without Lebron.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

WHO CARES!!!!

Totally different positions, Totally different type of players. Duncan should only be compared to other big men.

5 championships (should have been 6), to me, and as a fan, Tim will always be the best. Outside of Jordan/Bird and possibly Magic, (being I wasn't around in prime Kareem/Russell/Wilt etc. I really don't give a shit about the other players.

[MultiTroll]

Duncan ranked higher.
If LeBron adds another legit Championship, we can talk.

:pctoss 2013 gift or we don't even have to listen to this.

[Kawhitstorm]

Well, to be fair Terry Cummings completely dominated Jordan in the playoffs

Yeah, Terry Cummings dominated PEAK Jordan & he wasn't physically bigger than ROOKIE Jordan.:lol In any case, Jordan was matched up against Sidney Moncrief who is the only guard to win multiple DPOY awards.:rolleyes


And considering Jordan had a losing record for 1/3 of his career, it's not that far-fetched to think

LeBron didn't make the playoffs his first two season in the league while playing in the Leastern Conference.:lol
LeBitch got locked up by Bruce Bowen who was no match for LeBron as far as athleticism & physical stature.


Also, to think Jordan pretty much couldn't win a playoff game until he got a good team around him and definitely couldn't sniff a title until he got the GOAT coach puts some things in perspective.

Yeah, Jordan couldn't win a playoff game when he was losing in the conference finals against the 80s Celtics/Pistons who went on to win it all.:lol


No one is invincible.

Bird called Jordan the closest thing to god before he won a championship, Pierce used to take a shyt on LeBron when they were both playing w/ scrubs:

t-YMn3UFy8w


Maybe if Lebron would have retired a few times in the middle of his career he may have avoided '11.

LeBron actually retired in the middle of the 2010 series vs. the Cavs & followed it w/ his second retirement in the 2011 Finals.:lol

Outplayed by Rondo & Terry::lmao

QfnSuVCoazo

[Kawhitstorm]

And two of Tim's rings came from the 99 knicks and 07 Cavs... some of the worst teams to ever make the finals.

You mean the team that was led by LeBitch?


LBJ has had the hardest finals opponents overall of any player since Magic, tbqh. '14 Spurs[

You mean Team Duncan?


'16 Warriors alone are much better than any team that MJ, Tim, or Kobe ever faced off against...

'16 Warriors were a quarter away from being eliminated 4-1 by a team led by Dominos.:lol

[Horse]

Beating Kobe-Shaq lakers, kg and a stacked Portland team in '99 then lebron himself in '07

[Spurtacular]

do not know about right now, but when Lebron ends his career he will be ... sad as it is

No, the posters are right about the conference disparity. People don't realize how close Duncan was to having a modern Bill Russel ring run.

[SuperCam]

You mean the team that was led by LeBitch?



You mean Team Duncan?



'16 Warriors were a quarter away from being eliminated 4-1 by a team led by Dominos.:lol

The team LeBron had as a 22 year old whose second best player was Larry Hughes :lmao Tim wouldn't even get out of the first round if Hughes was the second best player on the roster.


It's okay player fans... Tim is an all time great. But he ringed against some serious dog teams, especially those first 3/4. The one team comparable in quality to the last two teams LeBron has ringed against, he lost to...

[SpursFan86]

Right now I still have Duncan slightly ahead LeBron...but by the end of LeBron's career, it's almost a guarantee that he'll be ahead of Duncan.

[SuperCam]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/after-all-that-the-warriors-arent-even-the-second-best-team-ever/

sorry spursfan, LeKing has had to face two of the top 4 rated teams all time in the finals... that's ridiculous. 3 of the top 15 in fact. Whereas Tim only had to face 1 in the top 30 in the finals, and that was the Miami team he lost to. In fact the 3 teams he played in the playoffs on that list ever he went 0-3 against.

Tim is top ten all time but don't try to put him ahead of LBJ because of rings, when LeBron could probably go 12-0 against the 99 knicks, 03 nets and 07 cavs :lol

[NameLess Scrub]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/after-all-that-the-warriors-arent-even-the-second-best-team-ever/

sorry spursfan, LeKing has had to face two of the top 4 rated teams all time in the finals... that's ridiculous. 3 of the top 15 in fact. Whereas Tim only had to face 1 in the top 30 in the finals, and that was the Miami team he lost to. In fact the 3 teams he played in the playoffs on that list ever he went 0-3 against.

Tim is top ten all time but don't try to put him ahead of LBJ because of rings, when LeBron could probably go 12-0 against the 99 knicks, 03 nets and 07 cavs :lol

Lebron didn't just beat the '13 Spurs and '16 Warriors. He was very lucky in both series.

The thing about Lebron is that he constantly gets the odds stacked in his favor. Hype, super teams, injuries, a weak conference which facilitates a better record and better odds to reach the Finals...
The exception being '15, and his team was still the underdog going into that series.

Some of the Spurs Finals opponents weak, of course, as it was when the Lakers threepeated, but then you have to consider the Western Conference opponents. Early 00's was the time when the WCF was the real Finals.

Lebron is an all time talent, it's just hard to compare him to Timmy who never had massive media love and superstars taking pay cuts to work as his sidekicks.

[Phenomanul]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/after-all-that-the-warriors-arent-even-the-second-best-team-ever/

sorry spursfan, LeKing has had to face two of the top 4 rated teams all time in the finals... that's ridiculous. 3 of the top 15 in fact. Whereas Tim only had to face 1 in the top 30 in the finals, and that was the Miami team he lost to. In fact the 3 teams he played in the playoffs on that list ever he went 0-3 against.

Tim is top ten all time but don't try to put him ahead of LBJ because of rings, when LeBron could probably go 12-0 against the 99 knicks, 03 nets and 07 cavs :lol


I would twist your observation on its head... the opponents that Lebron's teams faced were already weakened by the perennial slugfest in the Western Conference.

[SASdynasty!]

Yeah, Terry Cummings dominated PEAK Jordan & he wasn't physically bigger than ROOKIE Jordan.:lol In any case, Jordan was matched up against Sidney Moncrief who is the only guard to win multiple DPOY awards.:rolleyes


LeBron didn't make the playoffs his first two season in the league while playing in the Leastern Conference.:lol
LeBitch got locked up by Bruce Bowen who was no match for LeBron as far as athleticism & physical stature.



Yeah, Jordan couldn't win a playoff game when he was losing in the conference finals against the 80s Celtics/Pistons who went on to win it all.:lol



Bird called Jordan the closest thing to god before he won a championship, Pierce used to take a shyt on LeBron when they were both playing w/ scrubs:

t-YMn3UFy8w



LeBron actually retired in the middle of the 2010 series vs. the Cavs & followed it w/ his second retirement in the 2011 Finals.:lol

Outplayed by Rondo & Terry::lmao

QfnSuVCoazo

Make all the excuses for Jordan you want. The fact is his resume has a lot of holes:

- 5 seasons under .500 (Duncan never had a single season under .600 and played 4 more years than Jordan)
- 1-9 in the playoffs before Pippen & co.
- Didn't get close to a title before Phil Jackson
- Spent years in retirement in the middle of his career (never had to face Olajuwon, Duncan/Robinson, Shaq/Kobe) because he was retired or not making the playoffs.
- Getting swept in the playoffs in his early years when Duncan was sweeping Shaq & Kobe in his.
- The only team he beat in the Finals who won a championship was a washed-up Lakers team.
- Played on one of the most stacked teams in history (a team that made deep playoff runs without him)

[skulls138]

To LeKing's credit, he has beaten two teams in the finals -- '13 spurs and 73-9 warriors -- that are vastly superior to any team Tim beat in the finals. If he plays the '99 lockout knicks and the Kidd nets in his first two finals he is sitting at 5 rings right now easy, let alone that Cavs team with Larry Hughes as the second best player :lmaoLebron has played in the weaker conference his whole career and if you want to bring up the Heat beating the Spurs...they got lucky, which was proven the next year. Nobody remembers Lebrons conference finals whereas the Spurs have been in major battles with the likes of the Lakers, Phoenix and Dallas, all with at least one future hall of famer in them but some with with multiple. Many times it is the series' before the Finals that show a teams worth.

[Kawhitstorm]

The team LeBron had as a 22 year old whose second best player was Larry Hughes :lmao

Last I checked LeChoke had Wade at his PEAK & Bosh in his prime when he lost to a team whose second best player was Jason Terry.:lmao


Tim wouldn't even get out of the first round if Hughes was the second best player on the roster.

You are right, Tim wouldn't have just gotten out of the first round.....he would have won it all just like he did in 2003 when Stephen Jackson was the second best player in the playoffs.:toast

[Clipper Nation]

All time LeBron might be at the worst top 2-3 all time. He'll never overtake Jordan though.
LeBron is the greatest to ever do it. You old farts just don't want to admit it.

[apalisoc_9]

LeBron is the greatest to ever do it. You old farts just don't want to admit it.

[Clipper Nation]

Also, Duncan is the 2nd GOAT. Dad Killer would have never rang in San Antonio and would have demanded a trade out of town by year three. Without the most stacked teams in NBA history and copious amounts of help from Stern, DK would have been the Antoine Walker/Monta Ellis of his era.

[Kawhitstorm]

Tim is an all time great. But he ringed against some serious dog teams, especially those first 3/4. The one team comparable in quality to the last two teams LeBron has ringed against, he lost to...

Dumbass, the 2nd rd & WCF were the equivalent of the Finals in '99/'03/'07. LeBitch is the one cake-walking into the Finals while facing tomato cans such as the Al Horford's Hawks & DeFrozen's Raptors in the ECF.:lol

If the Duds were able to cakewalk into the Finals without having to face OKC & resting Wardell till the Finals then LeBitch would have been closed out in 5.

[Kawhitstorm]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/after-all-that-the-warriors-arent-even-the-second-best-team-ever/

sorry spursfan, LeKing has had to face two of the top 4 rated teams all time in the finals... that's ridiculous. 3 of the top 15 in fact.

So, the '09 Cavs are the top 15 team & better than the '85 Lakers?:lmao

I'm pretty sure the '14-'15 Hawks are an all-time top 50 team according to that algorithm b/c they won 60 games.:lol