Is Tony Parker the worst starting point guard in the league?

[dabom]

Discuss...

[BD24]

I would assume so. I haven't looked at a list of starting PGs in the NBA though, so can't say for sure. Definitely in the bottom 5 at least.

One of the Spurs biggest problem is we don't have a starting caliber PG on the roster

[RD2191]

Is water wet?
Is Trump racist?
Is SasDynasty a huge faggot?

[MaNu4Tres]

We've discussed it a lot in other threads already. The answer is yes.

Hopefully his play continues to be horrible tbh...

Last thing the Spurs need is Parker to pick up his play just barely enough for Pop to be okay with riding him for the rest of this year and next year.

[dabom]

We've discussed it a lot in other threads already. The answer is yes.

Hopefully his play continues to be horrible tbh...

Last thing the Spurs need is Parker to pick up his play just barely enough for Pop to be okay with riding him for the rest of this year and next year.

:lol

[TheGreatYacht]

Hopefully his play continues to be horrible tbh...
Manuretards arent Spurs fans, everyone already knew but thanks for confirming

[dabom]

Is water wet?
Is Trump racist?
Is SasDynasty a huge faggot?

:lmao

[HarlemHeat37]

He won't be as bad as he has shown during the past few weeks IMO..

Assuming he regresses positively to somewhere close to last year(with a little bit of natural decline due to aging), it's between him, Derrick Rose, Rondo, Elfrid Payton, Mudiay and Sergio Rodriguez, tbh(although Rose and Rodriguez have gotten off to decent starts):lol

If he continues at this pace, the answer is yes, though..

[K...]

I thought Patti was the starter, oh well the answer is still yes, worse pg.

[spursistan]

INb4 the lock..

[bklynspursfan]

Ah this is a new thread idea :tu

[Darius Bieber]

Is water wet?
Is Trump racist?
Is SasDynasty a huge faggot?

[HarlemHeat37]

Is SasDynasty a huge faggot?

:lol

[spurraider21]

excellent, insightful thread that asks a question we've all known the answer to for about 2 years now

[dabom]

Manuretards arent Spurs fans, everyone already knew but thanks for confirming

Biggest faggot in ST dictating who is and who's not a Spurs fan. :lol

[DPG21920]

Well Mills was a -25 and shot 1 for 7 with 4 points so I don't know :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

I'll never forget the abuse that Manu fans took on SpursTalk in June-July of 2013, tbh..it was the online version of the Holocaust IMO..

That was probably my least active stretch on ST, I couldn't stomach seeing all the hate and death threats directed at Manu and his fans..fortunately, the majority brushed it off, they didn't complain and kept posting here..IIRC, they didn't report anything to the mods(which would have been pointless, as that coward Bruno was one of the anti-Manu leaders) or request any bans, etc..quite the contrast vs. ST during the 2014-2015 RS:lol

Real Spurs fans, tbh..

[dabom]

Well Mills was a -25 and shot 1 for 7 with 4 points so I don't know :lol

So we using raw plus minus now? I guess that proves Tony is tbh. :lol

[dabom]

I'll never forget the abuse that Manu fans took on SpursTalk in June-July of 2013, tbh..

That was probably my least active stretch on ST, I couldn't stomach seeing all the hate and death threats directed at Manu and his fans..fortunately, the majority brushed it off, they didn't complain and kept posting here..IIRC, they didn't report anything to the mods(which would have been pointless, as that coward Bruno was one of the anti-Manu leaders)..

Real Spurs fans, tbh..

You can tell that faggot just a Porker fan. As soon as Porker declined, so did that mtfkr. :lol

[DPG21920]

So we using raw plus minus now? I guess that proves Tony is tbh. :lol

I'm using raw 1 for 7 shooting on 4 points tbh :lol

[dabom]

I'm using raw 1 for 7 shooting on 4 points tbh :lol

2015 Playoffs. :lol

[DPG21920]

What does last year's playoffs have to do with this thread and asking about current starting PGs?

[MaNu4Tres]

What does last year's playoffs have to do with this thread and asking about current starting PGs?

For the sake of Kawhi and the fans, hopefully neither are the starting PG for the Spurs next year.

[DPG21920]

For the sake of Kawhi and the fans, hopefully neither are the starting PG for the Spurs next year.

I would agree. I love TP and Patty. But Patty has never shown that he is capable of being a starting PG. That doesn't mean he might not be the best option this year eventually if TP never recovers, but he's not a starting PG on a truly good team.

[Clipper Nation]

No. He's the worst point guard in the league, period.

[MaNu4Tres]

I would agree. I love TP and Patty. But Patty has never shown that he is capable of being a starting PG. That doesn't mean he might not be the best option this year eventually if TP never recovers, but he's not a starting PG on a truly good team.

My exact sentiments.

[DJR210]

We've discussed it a lot in other threads already. The answer is yes.

Hopefully his play continues to be horrible tbh...

Last thing the Spurs need is Parker to pick up his play just barely enough for Pop to be okay with riding him for the rest of this year and next year.

My biggest fear is he plays well enough in Pop's eyes to warrant a lifetime achievement contract in another year

[kaji157]

I now PER is a difficult Stat for PG´s,but this is fucking Brutal.

Hollinger Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Point Guards
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
1 Russell Westbrook, OKC 6 34.2 .556 21.6 11.9 43.0 6.5 21.3 14.1 33.13 67.7 2.3
2 Chris Paul, LAC 6 31.0 .574 32.2 8.0 27.1 1.7 19.2 10.2 30.56 54.3 1.8
3 Damian Lillard, POR 7 36.3 .654 15.1 8.9 31.3 1.8 15.3 8.7 30.05 72.2 2.4
4 George Hill, UTAH 7 33.9 .659 23.1 5.3 23.1 1.5 8.5 5.1 26.60 55.2 1.8
5 John Wall, WSH 4 34.3 .532 27.8 14.6 34.8 4.8 12.8 8.7 25.79 30.2 1.0
6 Isaiah Thomas, BOS 6 34.2 .624 21.5 10.8 30.8 0.6 8.0 4.3 25.78 45.2 1.5
7 Mike Conley, MEM 6 32.8 .618 25.3 10.8 27.5 1.6 8.5 4.9 24.29 39.1 1.3
8 Kemba Walker, CHA 5 33.4 .608 16.7 10.2 29.1 0.6 8.9 4.7 23.45 31.0 1.0
9 Jeremy Lin, BKN 5 26.8 .554 28.0 10.8 25.9 1.5 13.2 7.3 22.52 23.0 0.8
10 Stephen Curry, GS 6 32.2 .583 21.0 9.3 29.0 1.2 8.5 5.0 21.73 30.9 1.0

12 Patty Mills, SA 7 22.7 .636 23.2 6.6 20.1 2.1 5.2 3.6 20.23 21.9 0.7

57 Tony Parker, SA 4 26.5 .420 33.2 12.4 14.7 0.0 8.8 4.3 5.33 -9.0 -0.3
58 Andrew Harrison, MEM 6 24.2 .397 23.6 13.3 16.2 2.2 4.1 3.1 4.78 -13.5 -0.4
59 Greivis Vasquez, BKN 3 13.0 .376 32.6 6.5 11.9 0.0 5.4 2.6 4.59 -3.7 -0.1
60 C.J. Watson, ORL 4 10.5 .102 33.8 11.3 6.8 4.9 8.0 6.4 2.99 -5.0 -0.2
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
61 Trey Burke, WSH 5 12.4 .369 10.2 20.5 17.9 0.0 7.6 3.7 0.26 -9.9 -0.3
62 Tyler Ennis, HOU 6 9.7 .267 30.3 24.2 18.2 4.1 7.9 6.0 -2.91 -12.0 -0.4

And yes, 58 to 62 are NOT starters.

[dabom]

:lol

[GSH]

We've discussed it a lot in other threads already.


In virtually every fucking thread. Every fucking day.

But this one was necessary to get more attention.

[SASdynasty!]

Parker is easily better than these starting PGs. I would argue he's than about 10-15 others as well, but I'll start with these bottom-feeders:

-Emmanuel Mudiay
-Deron Williams
-Matthew Dellavadova
-Sergio Rodriguez
-Kris Dunn
-Ish Smith

[Fireball]

Is water wet?
Is Trump racist?
Is dabom still a huge faggot?

[Kidd K]

I'll never forget the abuse that Manu fans took on SpursTalk in June-July of 2013, tbh..it was the online version of the Holocaust IMO..

That was probably my least active stretch on ST, I couldn't stomach seeing all the hate and death threats directed at Manu and his fans..fortunately, the majority brushed it off, they didn't complain and kept posting here..IIRC, they didn't report anything to the mods(which would have been pointless, as that coward Bruno was one of the anti-Manu leaders) or request any bans, etc..quite the contrast vs. ST during the 2014-2015 RS:lol

Real Spurs fans, tbh..

I don't remember any death threats, but Popovich got a massive amount of blame too. Mostly for overplaying the nightmarishly bad Ginobili in game 6 solely because he had a good game 5 (and shitty games 1-4) and for taking out Duncan for that failed rebounding play at the end of game 6.

Let's be fair though, Manu was in fact trash for the entire Finals aside from game 5 and the heat he got was justified for his reckless play that resulted in repeated failure. I appreciate what he did prior to that, but that year and since then, he has been overpaid and needed to have his role reduced imo.

[dabom]

Manu was a top 3/4 player in 2014 playoffs. :lol

Role reduced. :lol

[SASdynasty!]

Manu was a top 3/4 player in 2014 playoffs. :lol

Role reduced. :lol
2014 NBA Playoffs:

Parker: 17/5 on 49%
Duncan: 16/9 on 52%
Leonard: 14/7 on 51%
Ginobili: 14/4 on 44%

I agree Ginobili was top-4 on the Spurs in the '14 playoff run.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

We all have differing opinions but there is a consensus that you suck.

[FkLA]

Paddy has a bad game, in which the entire team struggled no less, and suddenly he's not a starting caliber PG? Nah. He won't ever be an elite PG but he's earned the right to start in this league.

p.s. SASdynasty! (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=9070) is publicly gargling Enrique's balls again :vomit:

[Obstructed_View]

Probably should wait until he's actually healthy to ask that question, tbh.

[ElNono]

I'll never forget the abuse that Manu fans took on SpursTalk in June-July of 2013, tbh..it was the online version of the Holocaust IMO..

That was probably my least active stretch on ST, I couldn't stomach seeing all the hate and death threats directed at Manu and his fans..fortunately, the majority brushed it off, they didn't complain and kept posting here..IIRC, they didn't report anything to the mods(which would have been pointless, as that coward Bruno was one of the anti-Manu leaders) or request any bans, etc..quite the contrast vs. ST during the 2014-2015 RS:lol

Real Spurs fans, tbh..

You couldn't make this post back then without repercussions, tbh... some posters were banished to downstairs for saying stuff like this...

[ElNono]

The hope is that he was injured, tbh, but then again... he should've sat down if that was the case. It's a long season and you don't want him to end up with something chronic.

[Cklbmk]

Cp3 will be our starting PG next season

[spursistan]

Given the age difference, that would be Rondo, tbh..just empty cancerous #s..

[cutewizard]

Cp3 will be our starting PG next season


-----------------------------------------------

CP3 no longer at peak...

how about John Wall?

[bigfan]

Cp3 will be our starting PG next season No more overpaid oldies please.

[gambit1990]

people who don't want chris paul :rollin

over the summer i thought he join the spurs when he becomes a free agent... the more i see the clippers play the less i feel that way.

still early in the season but they seem like they have a stronger fortitude than before. speights was a good pickup for them.

[spursistan]

Bump.

Not even close..Parker is not as good as his last couple of weeks and not as horrifyingly bad as the first month of season..

Despite a decline that has been precipitous and ugly, I am just glad Parker has never gone cancerous with it to the extent other washed PGs like Rondo/Rose has been doing the past few years..And while it helps that Parker has too much respect for Pop, I do think he is a better person and professional than these two..

[SpursforSix]

Bump.

Not even close..Parker is not as good as his last couple of weeks and not as horrifyingly bad as the first month of season..

Despite a decline that has been precipitous and ugly, I am just glad Parker has never gone cancerous with it to the extent other washed PGs like Rondo/Rose has been doing the past few years..And while it helps that Parker has too much respect for Pop, I do think he is a better person and professional than these two..

His contract is cancerous.

[dabom]

Bump.

Not even close..Parker is not as good as his last couple of weeks and not as horrifyingly bad as the first month of season..

Despite a decline that has been precipitous and ugly, I am just glad Parker has never gone cancerous with it to the extent other washed PGs like Rondo/Rose has been doing the past few years..And while it helps that Parker has too much respect for Pop, I do think he is a better person and professional than these two..

Faggot. :lmao



1
Chris Paul (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2779/chris-paul)
LAC
33
31.4
5.99
3.51
9.50
8.42


2
Kyle Lowry (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3012/kyle-lowry)
TOR
37
37.3
6.29
0.61
6.90
8.65


3
Russell Westbrook (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3468/russell-westbrook)
OKC
38
34.7
6.75
-0.21
6.54
8.33


4
Stephen Curry (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3975/stephen-curry)
GS
38
33.7
5.69
-0.50
5.19
7.17


5
George Hill (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3438/george-hill)
UTAH
15
30.8
2.80
1.10
3.90
1.97


6
John Wall (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4237/john-wall)
WSH
34
36.5
3.78
-0.40
3.38
5.19


7
Kemba Walker (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6479/kemba-walker)
CHA
37
33.5
4.13
-0.90
3.23
4.95


8
Patty Mills (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4004/patty-mills)
SA
37
22.2
3.14
-0.58
2.56
2.98


9
Patrick Beverley (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3964/patrick-beverley)
HOU
25
30.8
0.72
1.51
2.23
2.69


10
Jeff Teague (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4015/jeff-teague)
IND
38
32.0
1.97
-0.06
1.91
4.02


11
Eric Bledsoe (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4238/eric-bledsoe)
PHX
38
32.6
2.02
-0.39
1.63
3.81


12
Damian Lillard (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6606/damian-lillard)
POR
35
36.2
4.22
-2.67
1.55
3.69


13
Mike Conley (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3195/mike-conley)
MEM
28
31.9
3.04
-1.52
1.52
2.47


14
Kyrie Irving (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6442/kyrie-irving)
CLE
31
34.9
3.40
-1.92
1.48
3.20


15
Isaiah Thomas (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6472/isaiah-thomas)
BOS
33
33.7
5.25
-4.04
1.21
3.09


16
Jrue Holiday (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3995/jrue-holiday)
NO
23
31.2
0.03
0.93
0.96
1.89


17
D'Angelo Russell (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3136776/d'angelo-russell)
LAL
28
27.3
1.49
-0.63
0.86
2.00


18
Ricky Rubio (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4011/ricky-rubio)
MIN
32
31.5
-0.20
1.03
0.83
2.48


19
Marcus Smart (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2990992/marcus-smart)
BOS
34
29.9
-0.04
0.58
0.54
2.36


20
Elfrid Payton (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2583639/elfrid-payton)
ORL
39
28.5
0.31
-0.46
-0.15
2.09


21
Jeremy Lin (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4299/jeremy-lin)
BKN
12
25.0
-0.41
0.11
-0.30
0.59


22
Beno Udrih (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2448/beno-udrih)
DET
24
16.0
-0.17
-0.18
-0.35
0.65


23
Ty Lawson (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4000/ty-lawson)
SAC
36
25.2
-0.21
-0.29
-0.50
1.48


24
Tyus Jones (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3135046/tyus-jones)
MIN
21
10.4
-0.36
-0.31
-0.67
0.35


25
Goran Dragic (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3423/goran-dragic)
MIA
31
34.1
1.36
-2.05
-0.69
1.61


26
Deron Williams (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2798/deron-williams)
DAL
29
30.2
0.70
-1.42
-0.72
1.29


27
Raymond Felton (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2753/raymond-felton)
LAC
38
21.2
-1.13
0.32
-0.81
1.19


28
Fred VanVleet (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2991230/fred-vanvleet)
TOR
9
5.0
-1.30
0.47
-0.83
0.07


29
Jerian Grant (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2531047/jerian-grant)
CHI
29
14.3
-1.00
0.13
-0.87
0.57


30
Shabazz Napier (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2530780/shabazz-napier)
POR
24
8.2
-0.54
-0.38
-0.92
0.28


31
Andrew Harrison (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3064511/andrew-harrison)
MEM
39
25.4
-1.52
0.58
-0.94
1.31


32
Tim Frazier (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2488945/tim-frazier)
NO
32
28.9
0.63
-1.58
-0.95
1.28


33
Raul Neto (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2968361/raul-neto)
UTAH
20
7.7
-0.75
-0.23
-0.98
0.20


34
J.J. Barea (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3055/j.j.-barea)
DAL
12
28.1
-0.69
-0.47
-1.16
0.38


35
Zach LaVine (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3064440/zach-lavine)
MIN
36
37.6
1.68
-2.89
-1.21
1.62


36
Tony Parker (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1015/tony-parker)
SA
28
25.5
-0.29
-0.99
-1.28
0.81


37
Matthew Dellavedova (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2489716/matthew-dellavedova)
MIL
31
27.7
-1.00
-0.33
-1.33
0.98


38
Demetrius Jackson (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3059273/demetrius-jackson)
BOS
4
4.3
-0.96
-0.47
-1.43
0.02


39
Jameer Nelson (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2439/jameer-nelson)
DEN
37
24.6
-0.30
-1.25
-1.55
0.91


40
D.J. Augustin (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3415/d.j.-augustin)
ORL
39
20.3
0.55
-2.10
-1.55
0.78

[eric365]

Faggot. :lmao



1
Chris Paul (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2779/chris-paul)
LAC
33
31.4
5.99
3.51
9.50
8.42


2
Kyle Lowry (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3012/kyle-lowry)
TOR
37
37.3
6.29
0.61
6.90
8.65


3
Russell Westbrook (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3468/russell-westbrook)
OKC
38
34.7
6.75
-0.21
6.54
8.33


4
Stephen Curry (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3975/stephen-curry)
GS
38
33.7
5.69
-0.50
5.19
7.17


5
George Hill (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3438/george-hill)
UTAH
15
30.8
2.80
1.10
3.90
1.97


6
John Wall (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4237/john-wall)
WSH
34
36.5
3.78
-0.40
3.38
5.19


7
Kemba Walker (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6479/kemba-walker)
CHA
37
33.5
4.13
-0.90
3.23
4.95


8
Patty Mills (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4004/patty-mills)
SA
37
22.2
3.14
-0.58
2.56
2.98


9
Patrick Beverley (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3964/patrick-beverley)
HOU
25
30.8
0.72
1.51
2.23
2.69


10
Jeff Teague (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4015/jeff-teague)
IND
38
32.0
1.97
-0.06
1.91
4.02


11
Eric Bledsoe (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4238/eric-bledsoe)
PHX
38
32.6
2.02
-0.39
1.63
3.81


12
Damian Lillard (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6606/damian-lillard)
POR
35
36.2
4.22
-2.67
1.55
3.69


13
Mike Conley (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3195/mike-conley)
MEM
28
31.9
3.04
-1.52
1.52
2.47


14
Kyrie Irving (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6442/kyrie-irving)
CLE
31
34.9
3.40
-1.92
1.48
3.20


15
Isaiah Thomas (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6472/isaiah-thomas)
BOS
33
33.7
5.25
-4.04
1.21
3.09


16
Jrue Holiday (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3995/jrue-holiday)
NO
23
31.2
0.03
0.93
0.96
1.89


17
D'Angelo Russell (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3136776/d'angelo-russell)
LAL
28
27.3
1.49
-0.63
0.86
2.00


18
Ricky Rubio (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4011/ricky-rubio)
MIN
32
31.5
-0.20
1.03
0.83
2.48


19
Marcus Smart (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2990992/marcus-smart)
BOS
34
29.9
-0.04
0.58
0.54
2.36


20
Elfrid Payton (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2583639/elfrid-payton)
ORL
39
28.5
0.31
-0.46
-0.15
2.09


21
Jeremy Lin (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4299/jeremy-lin)
BKN
12
25.0
-0.41
0.11
-0.30
0.59


22
Beno Udrih (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2448/beno-udrih)
DET
24
16.0
-0.17
-0.18
-0.35
0.65


23
Ty Lawson (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4000/ty-lawson)
SAC
36
25.2
-0.21
-0.29
-0.50
1.48


24
Tyus Jones (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3135046/tyus-jones)
MIN
21
10.4
-0.36
-0.31
-0.67
0.35


25
Goran Dragic (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3423/goran-dragic)
MIA
31
34.1
1.36
-2.05
-0.69
1.61


26
Deron Williams (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2798/deron-williams)
DAL
29
30.2
0.70
-1.42
-0.72
1.29


27
Raymond Felton (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2753/raymond-felton)
LAC
38
21.2
-1.13
0.32
-0.81
1.19


28
Fred VanVleet (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2991230/fred-vanvleet)
TOR
9
5.0
-1.30
0.47
-0.83
0.07


29
Jerian Grant (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2531047/jerian-grant)
CHI
29
14.3
-1.00
0.13
-0.87
0.57


30
Shabazz Napier (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2530780/shabazz-napier)
POR
24
8.2
-0.54
-0.38
-0.92
0.28


31
Andrew Harrison (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3064511/andrew-harrison)
MEM
39
25.4
-1.52
0.58
-0.94
1.31


32
Tim Frazier (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2488945/tim-frazier)
NO
32
28.9
0.63
-1.58
-0.95
1.28


33
Raul Neto (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2968361/raul-neto)
UTAH
20
7.7
-0.75
-0.23
-0.98
0.20


34
J.J. Barea (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3055/j.j.-barea)
DAL
12
28.1
-0.69
-0.47
-1.16
0.38


35
Zach LaVine (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3064440/zach-lavine)
MIN
36
37.6
1.68
-2.89
-1.21
1.62


36
Tony Parker (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1015/tony-parker)
SA
28
25.5
-0.29
-0.99
-1.28
0.81


37
Matthew Dellavedova (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2489716/matthew-dellavedova)
MIL
31
27.7
-1.00
-0.33
-1.33
0.98


38
Demetrius Jackson (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3059273/demetrius-jackson)
BOS
4
4.3
-0.96
-0.47
-1.43
0.02


39
Jameer Nelson (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2439/jameer-nelson)
DEN
37
24.6
-0.30
-1.25
-1.55
0.91


40
D.J. Augustin (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3415/d.j.-augustin)
ORL
39
20.3
0.55
-2.10
-1.55
0.78




Do you really trust a ranking with Mills > Kyrie and Lillard?

[TheGreatYacht]

spursistan is on an elite posting run :wow

Anyone who disagrees just doesn't know basketball, tbh..

[elemento]

Do you really trust a ranking with Mills > Kyrie and Lillard?

It's not a ranking, it's DRPM, ORPM and RPM.

Kyrie and Lillard have a higher ORPM than Mills (which suggests they have a higher offensive impact), but they're a big negative DRPM (way worse defensively than Mills), hence why their RPM is lower than Mills.

I'd say it's a fair assumption. Mills is pretty much a 6th-man candidate this season.

TP is the only Spur among the starters with a negative RPM and the only Spur among the 10-man rotation negative in both ORPM and DRPM.

[TheGreatYacht]

RPM :lol

These players have a better DRPM than the defending back-to-back DPOY:
Kyle Anderson
Pau Gasol
David West
Salah Mejri
Zaza Pachulia
Kosta Koufus
Robert Covington
Cody Zeller
Nene Hilario
Kevin Love
Aron Baynes

Top-30 players according to RPM:
Zaza Pachulia
Cody Zeller
Lucas Noguiera
Patrick Patterson
Greg Monroe
Jae Crowder
Otto Porter Jr
George Hill
Trevor Ariza
Nikola Jokic

[TheGreatYacht]

95% of "Advanced" statistics are a joke

[elemento]

Most adv stats ALONE are not really useful, But when you confront the eye-test with several other stats and they say the same thing, it probably means something. Sample size is also very important.

Kawhi is still among the elite defenders in the NBA, but I don't think it's unfair to say that his defense hasn't been good as it was last season or the season before. He took his offensive game to a new level, but unfortunately his defense took a hit, something that happened to other great defenders like Butler.

[Brazil]

Most adv stats ALONE are not really useful, But when you confront the eye-test with several other stats and they say the same thing, it probably means something. Sample size is also very important.

Kawhi is still among the elite defenders in the NBA, but I don't think it's unfair to say that his defense hasn't been good as it was last season or the season before. He took his offensive game to a new level, but unfortunately his defense took a hit, something that happened to other great defenders like Butler.

saying his defense is not as good as last year is one thing, seeing him below kyle anderson on defensive metrics is a all other thing

dabom posted some raw stats, the same that KA ahead of Kawhi on Defense, to justify the fact parker is the worst starting pg... he is being rightly so calling out on that

if you think KA is better than Kawhi on defense or that Napier, Beno and co are better than Parker then you are probably a retard

[dabom]

saying his defense is not as good as last year is one thing, seeing him below kyle anderson on defensive metrics is a all other thing

dabom posted some raw stats, the same that KA ahead of Kawhi on Defense, to justify the fact parker is the worst starting pg... he is being rightly so calling out on that

if you think KA is better than Kawhi on defense or that Napier, Beno and co are better than Parker then you are probably a retard

It's only a portion. I can't use all the stats now. :lol

I didn't wanna spend too much time. :lol

[dabom]

Most adv stats ALONE are not really useful, But when you confront the eye-test with several other stats and they say the same thing, it probably means something. Sample size is also very important.

Kawhi is still among the elite defenders in the NBA, but I don't think it's unfair to say that his defense hasn't been good as it was last season or the season before. He took his offensive game to a new level, but unfortunately his defense took a hit, something that happened to other great defenders like Butler.

You are perfectly right. You have to use eye test, total production, per minute production, impact, and role to determine a player. Tony is trash right now. 3 game sample size is nothing out of 30plus games. :lol

[elemento]

saying his defense is not as good as last year is one thing, seeing him below kyle anderson on defensive metrics is a all other thing

dabom posted some raw stats, the same that KA ahead of Kawhi on Defense, to justify the fact parker is the worst starting pg... he is being rightly so calling out on that

if you think KA is better than Kawhi on defense or that Napier, Beno and co are better than Parker then you are probably a retard

That's why I said that sample size matters, along with the eye-test and other stats. KA plays 12 minutes/game, most of it against scrubs. You can't compare him with Leonard. At the same time, it's not an unfair assumption to say that Giannis is playing better defense that Kawhi THIS SEASON. Because the eye-test says so and when you check the stats they say the same thing and the guy is carrying a similar load on both ends.

Napier and Beno are obviously not better than TP, but when you take the 30 teams of the NBA and compare their starting PGs, saying that TP is among the worst is not something out of this world tbh. People shouldn't be so butthurt about the fact that Parker is washed up at this point of his career.

[Cry Havoc]

It's only a portion. I can't use all the stats now. :lol

I didn't wanna spend too much time. :lol

The ol' "I didn't have time to research but I'll still try to justify my argument" argument.

[Brazil]

That's why I said that sample size matters, along with the eye-test and other stats. KA plays 12 minutes/game, most of it against scrubs. You can't compare him with Leonard. At the same time, it's not an unfair assumption to say that Giannis is playing better defense that Kawhi THIS SEASON. Because the eye-test says so and when you check the stats they say the same thing and the guy is carrying a similar load on both ends.

Napier and Beno are obviously not better than TP, but when you take the 30 teams of the NBA and compare their starting PGs, saying that TP is among the worst is not something out of this world tbh. People shouldn't be so butthurt about the fact that Parker is washed up at this point of his career.

nobody is butthurt tbh... All games cumulated he is largely below average if by among the worst means in your mind below average he is, if your among the worst is to qualify bottom 5... well check your eyes... Then last 10 games or so he is far from being the worst

Just to avoid changing goal posts every 5 mn... all started with a poster calling out dabom for posting stats to back up the fact Parker is the worst, same stat showing KA being better than Kawhi. Point being you can find twist all stats you want to fit your agenda which you and him are doing. For the rest I called Parker washed up probably before you.

Finally I disagree on your stans about Kawhi regressing on defense or dude like giannis better than he is. Spurs are #1 on Defense and it is not because Parker and Gasol are elite on the defensive end... Spurs being still #1 after losing Duncan who was even at 40 y/o 10 times better on this end than Gasol and LMA is a nice achievement for MVP Kawhi.

[elemento]

nobody is butthurt tbh... All games cumulated he is largely below average if by among the worst means in your mind below average he is, if your among the worst is to qualify bottom 5... well check your eyes... Then last 10 games or so he is far from being the worst

Just to avoid changing goal posts every 5 mn... all started with a poster calling out dabom for posting stats to back up the fact Parker is the worst, same stat showing KA being better than Kawhi. Point being you can find twist all stats you want to fit your agenda which you and him are doing. For the rest I called Parker washed up probably before you.

Finally I disagree on your stans about Kawhi regressing on defense or dude like giannis better than he is. Spurs are #1 on Defense and it is not because Parker and Gasol are elite on the defensive end... Spurs being still #1 after losing Duncan who was even at 40 y/o 10 times better on this end than Gasol and LMA is a nice achievement for MVP Kawhi.

A lot of fellows get butthurt too easily, especially your french fellow SASsomething. TP had nice a 5-game stretch, not doubt about it. I'm the first guy the praise him in the game thread when TP plays well. Check it. I just wish he could play like that for the rest of the season.

Not sure why you're saying I have an agenda. I've never created a thread criticizing Parker or any SA player EVER, even players that I hated like Richard Jefferson or S-Jax. I simply pointed out that the table was not a ranking. It was simply a ORPM/DRPM/RPM list.

And let's be honest here - Stats don't need to be twisted to show that TP is not very good anymore. (at least in a consistent basis).

As for Leonard, yes I think he is bellow his standards this season and compared to his DPOY seasons, he absolutely regressed. As for SA as the n1 defense, it has more to do with culture/team-defense than Leonard carrying the Spurs defense alone. Don't forget that SA wasn't even a top 10 defense 4/5 weeks ago. SA is getting better as the the season goes and every single player of the main rotation (other than Mills/Parker) is playing solid defense this season.

I don't see Leonard winning another DPOY this season at all. At this point, it's pretty much a race between Green and Gobert as both have more defensive impact THIS SEASON than Leonard.

Playoffs it's another story.

[dabom]

Kawhi is the best defensive player in the league. No one can hold his jock strap tbh.

[Brazil]

A lot of fellows get butthurt too easily, especially your french fellow SASsomething. TP had nice a 5-game stretch, not doubt about it. I'm the first guy the praise him in the game thread when TP plays well. Check it. I just wish he could play like that for the rest of the season.

Not sure why you're saying I have an agenda. I've never created a thread criticizing Parker or any SA player EVER, even players that I hated like Richard Jefferson or S-Jax. I simply pointed out that the table was not a ranking. It was simply a ORPM/DRPM/RPM list.

point taken


And let's be honest here - Stats don't need to be twisted to show that TP is not very good anymore. (at least in a consistent basis).

Yes and we all agree on this, it does not prevent us from saying you can twist stats or those stats are flawed because it is the case... when you use a stat to back up a claim you always have to check what the stat means, what the stat is showing and how the said stat is relevant for the argument you are trying to make. As you said, you don't need stats to show that TP is not very good anymore. Now if you go full stats show he is the worst you better check. Borders of not very good are quite wide open now the player x is the worst border is very narrow.


As for Leonard, yes I think he is bellow his standards this season and compared to his DPOY seasons, he absolutely regressed. As for SA as the n1 defense, it has more to do with culture/team-defense than Leonard carrying the Spurs defense alone. Don't forget that SA wasn't even a top 10 defense 4/5 weeks ago. SA is getting better as the the season goes and every single player of the main rotation (other than Mills/Parker) is playing solid defense this season.

I don't see Leonard winning another DPOY this season at all. At this point, it's pretty much a race between Green and Gobert as both have more defensive impact THIS SEASON than Leonard.

Playoffs it's another story.

Again depends on your definition of below his standards, slightly below, way below etc etc... he has to work more on offense thus his defense is probably slightly less impactful than last year but I don't see that as a significant drop off tbh...

[Brazil]

Kawhi is the best defensive player in the league. No one can hold his jock strap tbh.

if not the best still among the best

I don't buy at all the theory that he regressed from last seasons, if it is the case it is slight stuff... Spurs are #1 on defense, SL is full of terrible to below average defender,,, yeah I don't believe in coincidence

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

if not the best still among the best

I don't buy at all the theory that he regressed from last seasons, if it is the case it is slight stuff... Spurs are #1 on defense, SL is full of terrible to below average defender,,, yeah I don't believe in coincidence

Playing defense at a high level is incredibly draining. Asking Kawhi to be the focal point on both ends of the floor is asking a lot of him...too much in my opinion. The Spurs are better spreading the offense and letting Kawhi focus on his defense. He could probably average 30 ppg if he played defense like Durant does but that's not what the Spurs need him to do, defensively. He's a superior athlete, but he gets gassed trying to do it all, and maintain that defensive intensity throughout a game. Use him opportunistically on offense, and let him concentrate on his D and be dominant.

[TheGreatYacht]

Kawhi is the best defensive player in the league. No one can hold his jock strap tbh.
Not even the first or second best defender on the team

Check DRPM

[dabom]

Not even the first or second best defender on the team

Check DRPM

You don't use one stat to assess a players worth on anything.