Hillary still in hiding...

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao

**** didn't even have enough class to come out and thank her supporters and give a concession speech.

2 billion fucking dollar campaign, outspends her opponent 4-1 and still gets her ass kicked

:lmao

Trump may suck but she managed to out-suck him.

It will be interesting to see what the sale price on her speeches is after yesterday...she will be running ads on Craigslist...:lmao

[Bender]

she was doing a victory jig last night when it was still Hillary 215 and Trump 244... even the election coverage crews said that she probably shouldn't have done that... especially on film...

[DMC]

She went to the reading room and found Dale dancing a jig.

[CosmicCowboy]

zXW0U-yGySM

[hater]

Shes in suicide watch i hear

[baseline bum]

I hope she's dead

[ducks]

she is ASLEEP

[Splits]

She better be seeking asylum. Bitch is the most hated woman in the country, Trump's supporters want to "lock her up" and 90% of those who voted for her agree with them.

Fucking bitch.

[midnightpulp]

She better be seeking asylum. Bitch is the most hated woman in the country, Trump's supporters want to "lock her up" and 90% of those who voted for her agree with them.

Fucking bitch.

You voted for the Don, Splits?

[Captivus]

:lmao

**** didn't even have enough class to come out and thank her supporters and give a concession speech.

2 billion fucking dollar campaign, outspends her opponent 4-1 and still gets her ass kicked

:lmao

Trump may suck but she managed to out-suck him.

It will be interesting to see what the sale price on her speeches is after yesterday...she will be running ads on Craigslist...:lmao

Exactly what I said a few hours ago...invredible. Thats when you see that no matter how much they try to look as part of the "people", they arent.
Disgrace!

[DMX7]

:lmao

**** didn't even have enough class to come out and thank her supporters and give a concession speech.

2 billion fucking dollar campaign, outspends her opponent 4-1 and still gets her ass kicked

:lmao

Trump may suck but she managed to out-suck him.

It will be interesting to see what the sale price on her speeches is after yesterday...she will be running ads on Craigslist...:lmao

She's going to have the flee the country once he sets up the special prosecutor.

[florige]

I'm never believing any poll ever again. They all suck.

[Splits]

You voted for the Don, Splits?

Fuck no.

But I am fucking pissed at Shillary for allowing this monster into power. His win lies at her feet and I want to see her suffer.

[midnightpulp]

Fuck no.

But I am fucking pissed at Shillary for allowing this monster into power. His win lies at her feet and I want to see her suffer.

It's a dark day.

And you know me, I just want fuckin' facts. Don't care about the cute letter beside the name or populist rhetoric. As one economist said, "Trump has a kindergarten view of economics." Scares the Hell out of me.

And the Rust Belt constituency he made promises to are going to be left high and dry. Manufacturing walked out that door in the 80's and it ain't coming back.

And :lol at thinking imposing 35% tariffs on imported goods is to going to do anything. Simple math. That percentage is nowhere near enough to offset what China can produce a widget for. Chinese workers at 1.50 hour + 35% vig is still massively cheaper than paying American workers 12-18.00 hour + benefits to do the same work.

[Axl Rose]

I'm never believing any poll ever again. They all suck.
They're not usually this wrong, the entire establishment including media polls were against trump the outsider. Tried telling y'all D +14 samples weren't gonna work

[SpursforSix]

And :lol at thinking imposing 35% tariffs on imported goods is to going to do anything. Simple math. That percentage is nowhere near enough to offset what China can produce a widget for. Chinese workers at 1.50 hour + 35% vig is still massively cheaper than paying American workers 12-18.00 hour + benefits to do the same work.

That's not true across the board. For instance, MIT did a study on the economics of making the Iphone in the U.S. If the parts were all made in the U.S. and the phones were assembled in the U.S., the cost of the phone could rise from $750 to $850 on the high end. It would rise to only $790 if they were assembled in the U.S. but used imported components.

[RGMCSE]

This bitch still making people wait. MSN click baiting with headlines like "Hillary can still win the popular vote!!" :rollin

[Sportcamper]

The butt-hurt this morning & this election is hysterical.

Van Jones- “This was a white lash”! :cry

MSNBC- This is what happens when you have a nation of uneducated angry white males. :cry

Hillary- Bucket of deplorables. :cry

LA Times- Hillary has at least 300 electoral votes in the bag.:cry

Butt-hurt Bush family voting for Hillary :cry

Moderate Democrats- I am not voting for that B :lol

The Get R Done, NASCAR, Duck Dynasty & biker folks just elected our next President… :lol

[hater]

:lmao shitler

[midnightpulp]

That's not true across the board. For instance, MIT did a study on the economics of making the Iphone in the U.S. If the parts were all made in the U.S. and the phones were assembled in the U.S., the cost of the phone could rise from $750 to $850 on the high end. It would rise to only $790 if they were assembled in the U.S. but used imported components.

Just read the study, and it says manufacturing the iPhone wouldn't bring too many jobs to the US since iPhone manufacture is basically automated.


With assembly already partly automated, and getting more so, it’s not likely that it would bring that many jobs to the USA – especially as any production line created from scratch would take full advantage of the opportunities to maximize the use of robots rather than people.

And I'm not sure if the study factors in the construction of new factories, which cost billions of dollar and would be cost that Apple or any other manufacturer would definitely tack on.

I'm not against going back to those 1950's manufacturing glory days, obviously, I just don't see how it can work.

[boutons_deux]

US steel companies stock goes up because investors think Repugs will impose tariffs on foreign steel? :lol

Repugs will now pass pro-BigCorp TTP/TTIP/etc trade deals that will "globalize" even more, and empower BigCorp even more to screw fleece us all.

Trash is gonna start a trade war with China? What about all those $100Bs of BigCorp investments in China? :lol

[SpursforSix]

Just read the study, and it says manufacturing the iPhone wouldn't bring too many jobs to the US since iPhone manufacture is basically automated.



And I'm not sure if the study factors in the construction of new factories, which cost billions of dollar and would be cost that Apple or any other manufacturer would definitely tack on.

I'm not against going back to those 1950's manufacturing glory days, obviously, I just don't see how it can work.

Those are good points. And I agree that we won't get back to anything significant. In fact...thinking about it...by the time we got to the point of someone actually building any kind of a plant, robots will have captured an even larger % of jobs. Manufacturing and otherwise.

Getting off track but at some point, some serious thought is going to have to be given to how a working population transitions into one where jobs are even more limited.

[Clipper Nation]

It's a dark day.

And you know me, I just want fuckin' facts. Don't care about the cute letter beside the name or populist rhetoric. As one economist said, "Trump has a kindergarten view of economics." Scares the Hell out of me.

And the Rust Belt constituency he made promises to are going to be left high and dry. Manufacturing walked out that door in the 80's and it ain't coming back.

And :lol at thinking imposing 35% tariffs on imported goods is to going to do anything. Simple math. That percentage is nowhere near enough to offset what China can produce a widget for. Chinese workers at 1.50 hour + 35% vig is still massively cheaper than paying American workers 12-18.00 hour + benefits to do the same work.
Please. Fucking MEXICO has become a manufacturing hub now. The idea that manufacturing jobs are dead and never coming back is complete bullshit. We would still have them if not for the combination of NAFTA, overregulation and insanely high taxes. The business environment we've created in this country has been so inhospitable that business owners would rather deal with the headaches of manufacturing in China or Mexico or the third world than stay here.

[baseline bum]

Bitch is onstage with that fake fucking smile. How is that crowd not booing her for being such a loser?

[baseline bum]

She is about to cry.

[Axl Rose]

Please. Fucking MEXICO has become a manufacturing hub now. The idea that manufacturing jobs are dead and never coming back is complete bullshit. We would still have them if not for the combination of NAFTA, overregulation and insanely high taxes. The business environment we've created in this country has been so inhospitable that business owners would rather deal with the headaches of manufacturing in China or Mexico or the third world than stay here.


He is just butthurt and being ridiculous

[Axl Rose]

Those are good points. And I agree that we won't get back to anything significant. In fact...thinking about it...by the time we got to the point of someone actually building any kind of a plant, robots will have captured an even larger % of jobs. Manufacturing and otherwise.

Getting off track but at some point, some serious thought is going to have to be given to how a working population transitions into one where jobs are even more limited.
Would you rather Americans build and maintain the factory and the robots or chinamen? There will always be humans involved even if it's fewer of them. Just means we can open more factories and make more affordable things.

[Splits]

Bitch is onstage with that fake fucking smile. How is that crowd not booing her for being such a loser?

only time I ever want to see this cunt again is in an orange jumpsuit. Only campaign promise I hope El Duce keeps.

I can't believe these faggots in the crowd applauding her.

[DMX7]

Please. Fucking MEXICO has become a manufacturing hub now. The idea that manufacturing jobs are dead and never coming back is complete bullshit. We would still have them if not for the combination of NAFTA, overregulation and insanely high taxes. The business environment we've created in this country has been so inhospitable that business owners would rather deal with the headaches of manufacturing in China or Mexico or the third world than stay here.

Oh NAFTA did a lot of damage for sure because what business wants to pay higher domestic salaries, wages and benefits.

[Warlord23]

Please. Fucking MEXICO has become a manufacturing hub now. The idea that manufacturing jobs are dead and never coming back is complete bullshit. We would still have them if not for the combination of NAFTA, overregulation and insanely high taxes. The business environment we've created in this country has been so inhospitable that business owners would rather deal with the headaches of manufacturing in China or Mexico or the third world than stay here.

2 points:

1. It's a global worker pool that Americans are up against. Unless the manufacturing process involves high-end specialized skills, Mexico and China will always beat developed countries via cost arbitrage. Putting a unilateral 35% tariff would not make Mexico less competitive globally. It will only make American prices rise by 35%. Tariffs will only work if every other consuming market does it too.

2. US tax rates are an afterthought for multinational firms (which coincidentally are the ones that run factories in China and Mexico), because they can always locate an office in a lower tax country and use transfer pricing to recognise all profits in that country. So either you lower the US corporate tax rate to near zero levels, or reach a global tax transfer agreement. The vague "cut taxes and regulations" solution belongs to 80s politics.

[StrengthAndHonor]

only time I ever want to see this cunt again is in an orange jumpsuit. Only campaign promise I hope El Duce keeps.
Not going to happen.

[midnightpulp]

2 points:

1. It's a global worker pool that Americans are up against. Unless the manufacturing process involves high-end specialized skills, Mexico and China will always beat developed countries via cost arbitrage. Putting a unilateral 35% tariff would not make Mexico less competitive globally. It will only make American prices rise by 35%. Tariffs will only work if every other consuming market does it too.

2. US tax rates are an afterthought for multinational firms (which coincidentally are the ones that run factories in China and Mexico), because they can always locate an office in a lower tax country and use transfer pricing to recognise all profits in that country. So either you lower the US corporate tax rate to near zero levels, or reach a global tax transfer agreement. The vague "cut taxes and regulations" solution belongs to 80s politics.

:tu

[baseline bum]

Clinton winning the popular vote is just further twisting of the knife.

[hater]

Clinton winning the popular vote is just further twisting of the knife.

:lmao havent seen baseline so upset since Benchinelli was in the silver n black :lol

[SpursforSix]

Would you rather Americans build and maintain the factory and the robots or chinamen? There will always be humans involved even if it's fewer of them. Just means we can open more factories and make more affordable things.

Of course I would. I support Trump and any effort to bring back manufacturing. I was off on a tangent with the robot thing. Just curious how it's all going to work.

[boutons_deux]

Clinton winning the popular vote is just further twisting of the knife.

It's actually even worse than that

The GOP’s Attack on Voting Rights Was the Most Under-Covered Story of 2016

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-gops-attack-on-voting-rights-was-the-most-under-covered-story-of-2016/

[midnightpulp]

Please. Fucking MEXICO has become a manufacturing hub now. The idea that manufacturing jobs are dead and never coming back is complete bullshit. We would still have them if not for the combination of NAFTA, overregulation and insanely high taxes. The business environment we've created in this country has been so inhospitable that business owners would rather deal with the headaches of manufacturing in China or Mexico or the third world than stay here.

Of course manufacturing jobs are alive...in countries where the price of labor is 1000% (literally) cheaper than it is stateside. The average factory worker in Mexico makes 2.10 per hour http://www.tradingeconomics.com/mexico/wages-in-manufacturing.

You can impose tariffs (at 30ish percent), give corporations 100% tax breaks, deregulate everything in sight (which would be met with serious protest and eventually become something of a PR nightmare for the firm in question if their actions wind up having environmental consequences. Much easier for Corporation X's factories to just pollute the shit out of China or Mexico and not have to worry about any backlash from tree huggers), bust up the unions, and the simple math still winds up way short of what Corporation X can save by outsourcing. The only way to bring those jobs back is for Americans to become "moral consumers" and willingly pay 5-10 times the price of goods as they are now, and even that won't bring those jobs back because the inflated prices will likely kill Corporation X's export markets (I don't think people in Europe would be willing to pay 3K for an Xbox One just to save American jobs).

I know you're a staunch Libertarian. Even Libertarians think free trade between countries is a novel idea. I mean, Libertarians are precisely against NAFTA because it forces firms into trade agreements with Mexico and Canada, thus restricting Corporation X's latitude to hear bids from other countries.

It also baffles me why you, as a Libertarian, are so high on this fucker. He's basically Reagan Jr. And Rothbard and other such Libertarian thinkers didn't think too much of St. Ronnie. Trump's gonna employ second hand Reaganomics all the while spending us into oblivion. He's already vowed to double Hillary's proposed infrastructure budget of 250 billion and increase military spending, which Libertarians aren't usually too fond of. I knew he pisses off SJW and Starbucks Liberals, and even though I'm socially Left, political correctness has reached critical mass and it was entertaining watching Trump ruffle feathers on the campaign trail, but the guy is a total dipshit.

I don't get the appeal here.

PS:

https://mises.org/library/myths-reaganomics


The presidency of Ronald Wilson Reagan has been a disaster for libertarianism in the United States, and might yet prove to be catastrophic for the human race.

And you can replace Reagan with Trump in Rothbard's entire essay here and not miss a beat.

https://mises.org/library/reagan-phenomenon

[baseline bum]

:lmao havent seen baseline so upset since Benchinelli was in the silver n black :lol

If Trump locks that bitch up I'll vote for him in 2020.

[DMC]

Run Hillary Run

[boutons_deux]

Repug policies won't bring back any factories from MX or China. :lol

Where mfg investment goes is decided by BigCorp, not Repugs.

[DMC]

Clinton winning the popular vote is just further twisting of the knife.

Her and Al can roll around on the floor together and in a few years, they can compare scars while hunting a great white shark named Trump. But they are going to need a bigger boat.

[DMC]

Repug policies won't bring back any factories from MX or China. :lol

Where mfg investment goes is decided by BigCorp, not Repugs.

Bitches about bigcorp
Owns a PC built by it

Muricans

[Chillen]

She proved why she isn't president and the American people got it right. She left all her supporters who were there for hours with nothing, no leadership, not even the courtesy to come on stage and show support for her supporters. This is a woman who only makes speeches if someone is paying her, lol. She's an elitest b*tch.

[Splits]

If Trump locks that bitch up I'll vote for him in 2020.

It might require a bit of waterboarding or grabbing her by the pussy video, but this.

[Chucho]

Of course manufacturing jobs are alive...in countries where the price of labor is 1000% (literally) cheaper than it is stateside. The average factory worker in Mexico makes 2.10 per hour http://www.tradingeconomics.com/mexico/wages-in-manufacturing.

You can impose tariffs (at 30ish percent), give corporations 100% tax breaks, deregulate everything in sight (which would be met with serious protest and eventually become something of a PR nightmare for the firm in question if their actions wind up having environmental consequences. Much easier for Corporation X's factories to just pollute the shit out of China or Mexico and not have to worry about any backlash from tree huggers), bust up the unions, and the simple math still winds up way short of what Corporation X can save by outsourcing. The only way to bring those jobs back is for Americans to become "moral consumers" and willingly pay 5-10 times the price of goods as they are now, and even that won't bring those jobs back because the inflated prices will likely kill Corporation X's export markets (I don't think people in Europe would be willing to pay 3K for an Xbox One just to save American jobs).

I know you're a staunch Libertarian. Even Libertarians think free trade between countries is a novel idea. I mean, Libertarians are precisely against NAFTA because it forces firms into trade agreements with Mexico and Canada, thus restricting Corporation X's latitude to hear bids from other countries.

It also baffles me why you, as a Libertarian, are so high on this fucker. He's basically Reagan Jr. And Rothbard and other such Libertarian thinkers didn't think too much of St. Ronnie. Trump's gonna employ second hand Reaganomics all the while spending us into oblivion. He's already vowed to double Hillary's proposed infrastructure budget of 250 billion and increase military spending, which Libertarians aren't usually too fond of. I knew he pisses off SJW and Starbucks Liberals, and even though I'm socially Left, political correctness has reached critical mass and it was entertaining watching Trump ruffle feathers on the campaign trail, but the guy is a total dipshit.

I don't get the appeal here.

PS:

https://mises.org/library/myths-reaganomics



And you can replace Reagan with Trump in Rothbard's entire essay here and not miss a beat.

https://mises.org/library/reagan-phenomenon


Manufacturing jobs aren't coming back because labor prices from an overly spoiled society have made it that way. "Living wage" to most today includes luxuries like cell phones, designer shoes, internet and all-day AC. This is 100% due to our society and not the Government. Nothing can be done to solve our societal issues, except giving harsh doses of reality to people who think luxuries should be gauranteed to every born American. But, inversely, raising the minimum wage is NOT the answer, it will just eliminate more small businesses, the sector that employs 97% of the country, AGAIN, and millions and millions more will be in soup lines. I saw it when we first opened our company and we are seeing it everywhere due to the burdens the shitty Left shifted onto the employers. This is an issue started by our spoiled society and compounded by entitlement pimp politicians.

[midnightpulp]

Manufacturing jobs aren't coming back because labor prices from an overly spoiled society have made it that way. "Living wage" to most today includes luxuries like cell phones, designer shoes, internet and all-day AC. This is 100% due to our society and not the Government. Nothing can be done to solve our societal issues, except giving harsh doses of reality to people who think luxuries should be gauranteed to every born American. But, inversely, raising the minimum wage is NOT the answer, it will just eliminate more small businesses, the sector that employs 97% of the country, AGAIN, and millions and millions more will be in soup lines. I saw it when we first opened our company and we are seeing it everywhere due to the burdens the shitty Left shifted onto the employers. This is an issue started by our spoiled society and compounded by entitlement pimp politicians.

No. It's because you can't live on 6.00 an hour, no matter how much you tighten your belt. This isn't the 1970's.

You probably pine for the glory days of the 1950's, when domestic manufacturing was at its peak and John Q. Public could make a comfortable living as a factory worker, but guess what? The corporate tax rate in those days was higher (meaning John Q. Public carried less overall tax burden) and the US had zero competition in the manufacturing sector from developing countries. Furthermore, you denigrate modern day Americans as "lazy and spoiled" people who don't want to do those jobs for low wages (I take it you want them paid something like 7-8.00 per hour?), but at the same time forget the fact that in 1963, for instance, the average hourly wage for a factory worker was 2.50. Adjust for inflation, and that comes out to about 20.00 per hour, which is near what the average factory workers make now.

We simply can't compete with China, Mexico, Vietnam, India, etc in that sector any longer, no matter how much Americans proverbially tighten the belt or the bumps businesses get from the government in the form of tax breaks, tariffs, etc.

That era is over. We're a service economy now.

[midnightpulp]

More threats posed to the manufacturing sector:

https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/09/trump-promises-to-bring-back-manufacturing-jobs-but-robots-wont-let-him/

"Well, at least some jobs are coming home :cheer"

But this kind of factory will be a far cry from the mega factories of the 50's and such that employed whole towns of thousands of people. You could probably get away with a robot-to-human worker ratio of 20-1 or even more. Conceivably, a couple of guys could run the whole thing from an office. Ah:


Previously, there were 650 employees at the factory. With the new robots, there's now only 60. Luo Weiqiang, general manager of the company, told the People's Daily that the number of employees could drop to 20 in the future.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/chinese-factory-replaces-90-of-humans-with-robots-production-soars/

And the kind of work these "factory workers" will be required to do isn't the type of roll-up-your-sleeves assembly line work someone in the Rust Belt is qualified/used to doing. Basically be IT work. A commentator summed it up nicely:


I agree with the point you're making, however even if this is a viable option, will the former assembly line worker from the rust belt who is 45 years old, be willing to go to college to learn basic circuit theory and engineering required to repair and refurbish these robots? I'm actually genuinely curious. I'm assuming specialized repair would require SOME level of expertise above a few week training course even if it's not from a full blown college program. Are the workers that have been displaced from less critical thinking positions be willing to go through that to get jobs back? Enough to make a noticeable impact on employment numbers? I honestly think we SHOULD persue this as an avenue for potential jobs, but i remain at least somewhat skeptical.

And again, the amount of people this factory could employ won't in anyway buoy cities and communities previously devastated by lost manufacturing jobs. And trust me, I hate this. It essentially forces workers in all sectors (automation is starting to creep into more industries beside manufacturing) to become IT nerds.

The solution would be assign everyone a "robot" who basically acts as their surrogate worker. They're responsible for its maintenance and upkeep. This way, a factory of 300 robots employs 300 workers. Problem is, "robots" can be anything from the cliched idea of individual motorized arms and legs performing tasks or a self-contained single system assembled from conveyor belts, arms and levers that is essentially a single robot. So how many workers can you conceivably assign to the latter?

This eventually all leads to everyone just getting a guaranteed income. Or we can start becoming "moral consumers" and vow not to buy goods from companies that produce goods primarily through automation.

No easy solution in sight here.

[TheSanityAnnex]

If Trump locks that bitch up I'll vote for him in 2020.

Nice to see the old you back.

[hater]

If Trump locks that bitch up I'll vote for him in 2020.

:lmao

[RandomGuy]

Fuck no.

But I am fucking pissed at Shillary for allowing this monster into power. His win lies at her feet and I want to see her suffer.

I don't think you are alone. She is sooo done.

[RandomGuy]

Manufacturing jobs aren't coming back because labor prices from an overly spoiled society have made it that way. "Living wage" to most today includes luxuries like cell phones, designer shoes, internet and all-day AC. This is 100% due to our society and not the Government. Nothing can be done to solve our societal issues, except giving harsh doses of reality to people who think luxuries should be gauranteed to every born American. But, inversely, raising the minimum wage is NOT the answer, it will just eliminate more small businesses, the sector that employs 97% of the country, AGAIN, and millions and millions more will be in soup lines. I saw it when we first opened our company and we are seeing it everywhere due to the burdens the shitty Left shifted onto the employers. This is an issue started by our spoiled society and compounded by entitlement pimp politicians.

No, manufacturing jobs are gone because of automation, and technology.

Most American companies are sitting on record profits and piles of cash. That money is not really helping the economy, and raises in wages would kick start things greatly, simply due to the velocity of money effect.

Economic growth is always tied to demographics due to changing spending patterns, and no aging country EVER will have the kinds of economic growth that growing populations offer.

You should really read more.

[RandomGuy]

No. It's because you can't live on 6.00 an hour, no matter how much you tighten your belt. This isn't the 1970's.

You probably pine for the glory days of the 1950's, when domestic manufacturing was at its peak and John Q. Public could make a comfortable living as a factory worker, but guess what? The corporate tax rate in those days was higher (meaning John Q. Public carried less overall tax burden) and the US had zero competition in the manufacturing sector from developing countries. Furthermore, you denigrate modern day Americans as "lazy and spoiled" people who don't want to do those jobs for low wages (I take it you want them paid something like 7-8.00 per hour?), but at the same time forget the fact that in 1963, for instance, the average hourly wage for a factory worker was 2.50. Adjust for inflation, and that comes out to about 20.00 per hour, which is near what the average factory workers make now.

We simply can't compete with China, Mexico, Vietnam, India, etc in that sector any longer, no matter how much Americans proverbially tighten the belt or the bumps businesses get from the government in the form of tax breaks, tariffs, etc.

That era is over. We're a service economy now.

Eyup. The only constant is change, and that sums it up.

[RandomGuy]

More threats posed to the manufacturing sector:

https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/09/trump-promises-to-bring-back-manufacturing-jobs-but-robots-wont-let-him/

"Well, at least some jobs are coming home :cheer"

But this kind of factory will be a far cry from the mega factories of the 50's and such that employed whole towns of thousands of people. You could probably get away with a robot-to-human worker ratio of 20-1 or even more. Conceivably, a couple of guys could run the whole thing from an office. Ah:



http://www.techrepublic.com/article/chinese-factory-replaces-90-of-humans-with-robots-production-soars/

And the kind of work these "factory workers" will be required to do isn't the type of roll-up-your-sleeves assembly line work someone in the Rust Belt is qualified/used to doing. Basically be IT work. A commentator summed it up nicely:



And again, the amount of people this factory could employ won't in anyway buoy cities and communities previously devastated by lost manufacturing jobs. And trust me, I hate this. It essentially forces workers in all sectors (automation is starting to creep into more industries beside manufacturing) to become IT nerds.

The solution would be assign everyone a "robot" who basically acts as their surrogate worker. They're responsible for its maintenance and upkeep. This way, a factory of 300 robots employs 300 workers. Problem is, "robots" can be anything from the cliched idea of individual motorized arms and legs performing tasks or a self-contained single system assembled from conveyor belts, arms and levers that is essentially a single robot. So how many workers can you conceivably assign to the latter?

This eventually all leads to everyone just getting a guaranteed income. Or we can start becoming "moral consumers" and vow not to buy goods from companies that produce goods primarily through automation.

No easy solution in sight here.

+1

This is what the people who elected Trump simply don't understand. They want the magic ponies he promised.

There are going to be a fuckuva lot of people really pissed when he doesn't deliver anything he promised during the election.

[RandomGuy]

2 points:

1. It's a global worker pool that Americans are up against. Unless the manufacturing process involves high-end specialized skills, Mexico and China will always beat developed countries via cost arbitrage. Putting a unilateral 35% tariff would not make Mexico less competitive globally. It will only make American prices rise by 35%. Tariffs will only work if every other consuming market does it too.

2. US tax rates are an afterthought for multinational firms (which coincidentally are the ones that run factories in China and Mexico), because they can always locate an office in a lower tax country and use transfer pricing to recognise all profits in that country. So either you lower the US corporate tax rate to near zero levels, or reach a global tax transfer agreement. The vague "cut taxes and regulations" solution belongs to 80s politics.

Another +1.

I am going to be happy about the tariffs. We will get a solid lesson in free market economics when prices spike, the jobs don't materialize, and the people who voted for him thinking that the free trade agreements stole jobs will be scratching their ignorant heads going "what happened?"

[SnakeBoy]

No, manufacturing jobs are gone because of automation, and technology.


So companies move their manufacturing to Mexico, China, etc. to take advantage of those countries superior automation & technology.....I did not know that.

[DMC]

+1

This is what the people who elected Trump simply don't understand. They want the magic ponies he promised.

There are going to be a fuckuva lot of people really pissed when he doesn't deliver anything he promised during the election.

No, just the reaction from the liberals in the last two days was worth it. I don't care if he quits tomorrow, this shit is hilarious.

[DMC]

Another +1.

I am going to be happy about the tariffs. We will get a solid lesson in free market economics when prices spike, the jobs don't materialize, and the people who voted for him thinking that the free trade agreements stole jobs will be scratching their ignorant heads going "what happened?"

This is why you're on the bottom looking up right now. You think anyone who doesn't agree with liberal policies is ignorant. See what that kind of rhetoric did for you? Now you have a fucking maniac in the WH. You had it made but was it enough? Fuck no, you had to try to push the middle class white man off the cliff.

[z0sa]

Eyup. The only constant is change, and that sums it up.

"Sorry, we just cant" is why Hillary got dominated.

[z0sa]

So companies move their manufacturing to Mexico, China, etc. to take advantage of those countries superior automation & technology.....I did not know that.

:lol exactly.

[boutons_deux]

So companies move their manufacturing to Mexico, China, etc. to take advantage of those countries superior automation & technology.....I did not know that.

Automation and technology in USA will reduce or kill those low-wage jobs in MX, CN

[z0sa]

Automation and technology in USA will reduce or kill those low-wage jobs in MX, CN

Says who, you? Youre a fucking idiot.

Whoever exports jobs should be paying the government the difference in taxes. If it costs a guy 15 an hr to work the assembly line here, then thats what every company will pay, either to an American, or to a Mexican/East Asian and their state and federal tax collectors.

[Warlord23]

So companies move their manufacturing to Mexico, China, etc. to take advantage of those countries superior automation & technology.....I did not know that.

Factories where automation is more cost-effective than manual labor will get automated - old jobs will be lost and new ones created in developed nations. Factories where manual labor is still viable will rather remain in low-cost locations than in the US. It's just mathematics at work, not ideology.

The US is still a manufacturing powerhouse. Manufacturing output has doubled in constant-currency terms compared to 30 years ago. The problem is that it takes much less labor now to get the same job done.

However I agree with DMC that the Democratic party has ignored this problem for a long time. I'm sure he'll admit that the GOP is guilty of being in the same boat. Trump and Sanders figured out how to talk about the problem, and nobody else did. There is no easy solution to this problem, but that didn't stop Trump from promising one. Now he is on the hook to deliver an impossible outcome.

[Warlord23]

Says who, you? Youre a fucking idiot.

Whoever exports jobs should be paying the government the difference in taxes. If it costs a guy 15 an hr to work the assembly line here, then thats what every company will pay, either to an American, or to a Mexican/East Asian and their state and federal tax collectors.

Here is the problem with your solution. The company which exports jobs is not beholden to the US in any way and will never be. Corporations aren't citizens and can't be unilaterally forced by a single country to pay up. Now if you have half the planet agreeing on this and putting a global tax framework in place, you have a chance.

[z0sa]

Factories where automation is more cost-effective than manual labor will get automated - old jobs will be lost and new ones created in developed nations. Factories where manual labor is still viable will rather remain in low-cost locations than in the US. It's just mathematics at work...

That is fine. Every one of these automated factories need to have every corner on American soil, while being built, engineered, programmed and supervised by Americans.

[z0sa]

Here is the problem with your solution. The company which exports jobs is not beholden to the US in any way and will never be. Corporations aren't citizens and can't be unilaterally forced by a single country to pay up. Now if you have half the planet agreeing on this and putting a global tax framework in place, you have a chance.

Then leave and dont ever come back.

[Th'Pusher]

This is why you're on the bottom looking up right now. You think anyone who doesn't agree with liberal policies is ignorant. See what that kind of rhetoric did for you? Now you have a fucking maniac in the WH. You had it made but was it enough? Fuck no, you had to try to push the middle class white man off the cliff.

not wanting tariffs is a liberal policy? The world has been turned upside down.

[boutons_deux]

Whoever exports jobs should be paying the government the difference in taxes.

You're a fucking idiot.

Who is going to pass such a law, regulation? :lol Your Repug buddies?

If US companies can produce a product with almost no workers in USA, why would they keep or start factories elsewhere?

[Warlord23]

Then leave and dont ever come back.

So economic isolation like North Korea or erstwhile Cuba? You really think that is going to create a strong middle class?

Btw, not trying to be antagonistic ... but this is not a problem with a 1-liner as a solution.

[z0sa]

If US companies can produce a product with almost no workers in USA, why would they keep or start factories elsewhere?

They wouldnt. Which Im perfectly fine with. Why arent you?

[z0sa]

So economic isolation like North Korea or erstwhile Cuba? You really think that is going to create a strong middle class?

Btw, not trying to be antagonistic ... but this is not a problem with a 1-liner as a solution.

I didnt say that. I just think it is time to call Big Whichever's bluffs and see who folds and who calls, that is all. We need honesty, not lip service, WE being the average American citizenry.

[boutons_deux]

"WE being the average American citizenry"

Look up the recent Princeton study on oligarchy in the USA.

99% of the time, BigDonors get their preferences into law, regulations.

1% of the time, citizens get their preferences, and most of those times, BigDonors happen to want the same.

iow, there's no bluff to call. The self-dealing oligarchy holds ALL the cards. Disenfranchised citizens aren't even seated at the table.

[Warlord23]

I didnt say that. I just think it is time to call Big Whichever's bluffs and see who folds and who calls, that is all. We need honesty, not lip service, WE being the average American citizenry.

But that wouldn't solve the whole problem. Tesla's Gigafactory 1 will produce more lithium batteries in 2020 than what the whole world did 3 years back - and they'll do it with a fraction of the workforce. Even if automated factories stay in the US, the rust belt isn't going to recover the jobs they've lost. And Tesla's second gigafactory is going to be set up in Europe, not the US. Do you force Elon Musk to either set up both factories in the US or ask him to get out altogether?

[z0sa]

But that wouldn't solve the whole problem. Tesla's Gigafactory 1 will produce more lithium batteries in 2020 than what the whole world did 3 years back - and they'll do it with a fraction of the workforce. Even if automated factories stay in the US, the rust belt isn't going to recover the jobs they've lost. And Tesla's second gigafactory is going to be set up in Europe, not the US. Do you force Elon Musk to either set up both factories in the US or ask him to get out altogether?

Why do you assume I think every lost job is coming back? This is the problem with the current discourse. I am not living in a fantasy world where every factory job from the Golden Age of the Middle class in the 50s and 60s returns with the same pay and benefits. It is really not even worth continuing the conversation if all you are going to do is repeatedly assume you know the fine details of my position.

As for Tesla, if he opts to build two identical factories and pay the exact same wages in both.... whats the issue?

[Warlord23]

Why do you assume I think every lost job is coming back? This is the problem with the current discourse. I am not living in a fantasy world where every factory job from the Golden Age of the Middle class in the 50s and 60s returns with the same pay and benefits. It is really not even worth continuing the conversation if all you are going to do is repeatedly assume you know the fine details of my position.

As for Tesla, if he opts to build two identical factories and pay the exact same wages in both.... whats the issue?

I didn't imply that you thought the jobs are coming back. But that solution has been sold to Trump's rust belt base. I think we both agree on the nature and magnitude of the problem. The question is how do you solve it.

[DMC]

Jobs aren't coming back. The only new jobs that will be created will be in Trump's cabinet.

[boutons_deux]

"The question is how do you solve it."

The Repugs won't even consider that question.

Having bribed their path clear with globalization rules, treaties, etc, BigCorp exported jobs, and BigCorp owns Repugs.

btw, BigCorp will bring back TPP/TTIP/etc under different acronyms and the Repugs/Trash will approve them all.

[hater]

Jobs aren't coming back. The only new jobs that will be created will be in Trump's cabinet.

and sadly it looks like he's going to fill them with Republican excrement.

this presidency could be as bad as Obama's sadly

[z0sa]

I didn't imply that you thought the jobs are coming back. But that solution has been sold to Trump's rust belt base. I think we both agree on the nature and magnitude of the problem. The question is how do you solve it.

We are imply bringing back the jobs we can. There are other major issues at play here besides just money. We shouldnt sanction "communist" slave labor. We shouldnt massively - and artificially, dare i say - prop up at least one rival superpower's economy. We shouldnt be making trade agreements with countries that have little care for environmental concerns.

[DMC]

You can have the moral high ground once you secure the fiscal low ground. The US cannot afford to ignore their own decay in favor of waving the moral flag for the world.

[boutons_deux]

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