View Full Version : Of course the defense
RD2191
11-10-2016, 12:44 AM
is going to suffer. We lost Timmy and now our best defender the past couple of seasons is our #1 scoring option.
dabom
11-10-2016, 12:45 AM
is going to suffer. We lost Timmy and now our best defender the past couple of seasons is our #1 scoring option.
Our best rebounder
Best stealer
Supposed to be best facilitator too
Best scoring machine too
:lol
Chinook
11-10-2016, 12:47 AM
The D will be fine. Held the Rockets to 38 points in the second half. The offense is by far the biggest issue.
YGWHI
11-10-2016, 12:51 AM
The D will be fine. Held the Rockets to 38 points in the second half. The offense is by far the biggest issue.
And almost 32 in just one quarter.
Do you really think the Spurs don't have a rim-protection issue??
ElNono
11-10-2016, 12:56 AM
The D will be fine. Held the Rockets to 38 points in the second half. The offense is by far the biggest issue.
You just can't keep on giving up 30+ point quarters... you can't. Might happen once or twice if a team gets really hot, but this happens too often now.
I said looking at Danny to be the savior on that just won't work. This has to be a collective effort from the team. It's clear that when they really want to, they can play good to very good D.
YGWHI
11-10-2016, 01:00 AM
You just can't keep on giving up 30+ point quarters... you can't. Might happen once or twice if a team gets really hot, but this happens too often now.
:tu
BG_Spurs_Fan
11-10-2016, 03:20 AM
Pop realized he's got to play small, yet he started Pau in the second half. If Tim Duncan could handle being benched, so should Pau when he's clearly a bad match up.
They also got the LMA on Harden switch whenever they wanted and he carved them with his passing. This game was very much on Pop.
That said, I agree offense is the bigger problem. No one on the team could penetrate consistently and it's not like Houston's defense is even average. Terrible flow offensively throughout the game and not for the first time.
poeticism707
11-10-2016, 03:39 AM
Our best rebounder
Best stealer
Supposed to be best facilitator too
Best scoring machine too
:lol
This.
The Spurs are going to wear Kawhi out.
Get him a fucking pg, Pop.
minuzzo21
11-10-2016, 03:57 AM
Gasol is too soft and I don't like too iso play of Kawhi.
Two new lineups. New players at nearly all spots. It'll take time to learn each other. If they play a fill game of defense, they're looking really good. Not worried, as that comes with time.
This.
The Spurs are going to wear Kawhi out.
Get him a fucking pg, Pop.
He calls for the ball. It's his bad decisions,not a coaching decision. There are still plenty of facilitators on the team.
He wants to do everything, that's his call.he needs to learn balance, and he will with time.
poeticism707
11-10-2016, 04:07 AM
He calls for the ball. It's his bad decisions,not a coaching decision. There are still plenty of facilitators on the team.
He wants to do everything, that's his call.he needs to learn balance, and he will with time.
Wrong.
Parker and Gino are 5 years past being
consistent play makers for the season and playoffs.
Get the a real pg asap,
Or the Spurs may not make the playoffs.
Chinook
11-10-2016, 07:32 AM
You just can't keep on giving up 30+ point quarters... you can't. Might happen once or twice if a team gets really hot, but this happens too often now.
I said looking at Danny to be the savior on that just won't work. This has to be a collective effort from the team. It's clear that when they really want to, they can play good to very good D.
The Spurs were great defensively when Green on the floor. They allowed a pace of 89pp48. Without him, it was 115pp48. Him being out there did pretty much fix everything. Him only being out there 26 minutes while Manu had 21 mostly abysmal minutes on the other hand.... 110pp48 on versus 94pp48 when off. Simmons was 89pp48 on and 110pp48 off. Kawhi was 105pp48 on and 85pp48 when off.
There was definitely an issue of Pop overplaying Kawhi and underplaying Simmons and Green. Leonard's the MVP of the team, but the rest of the guys scored at a 138pp48 clip when he was on the bench. When he was on the floor, they scored 90pp48. That's definitely a contributing factor here. Offense with Green was 111pp48 on and 94pp48 off. Simmons on offense 110pp48 on and 91pp48 off.
Mitigating factors apply, of course, especially playing with Harden in the game or not. But their minutes didn't align exactly anyway.
Raven
11-10-2016, 07:52 AM
not worried just yet.
NameLess Scrub
11-10-2016, 08:12 AM
The Spurs were great defensively when Green on the floor. They allowed a pace of 89pp48. Without him, it was 115pp48. Him being out there did pretty much fix everything. Him only being out there 26 minutes while Manu had 21 mostly abysmal minutes on the other hand.... 110pp48 on versus 94pp48 when off. Simmons was 89pp48 on and 110pp48 off. Kawhi was 105pp48 on and 85pp48 when off.
There was definitely an issue of Pop overplaying Kawhi and underplaying Simmons and Green. Leonard's the MVP of the team, but the rest of the guys scored at a 138pp48 clip when he was on the bench. When he was on the floor, they scored 90pp48. That's definitely a contributing factor here. Offense with Green was 111pp48 on and 94pp48 off. Simmons on offense 110pp48 on and 91pp48 off.
Mitigating factors apply, of course, especially playing with Harden in the game or not. But their minutes didn't align exactly anyway.
Would you say Kawhi ISOs make everyone else worse?
I'm definitely worried about that, and also that his offensive load is too heavy considering they need him to be at his best on defense too.
boutons_deux
11-10-2016, 08:24 AM
"Would you say Kawhi ISOs make everyone else worse?"
kills many chances of The Beautiful Game ball movement, and all-player involvement.
Chinook
11-10-2016, 08:39 AM
Would you say Kawhi ISOs make everyone else worse?
I'm definitely worried about that, and also that his offensive load is too heavy considering they need him to be at his best on defense too.
Despite what his shills think, yes. I don't think the Spurs should be built on Kawhiso. Not to the extent they are. No one can get into rhythm because their touches completely depend on when Kawhi has to pass or wants to pass. If you contrast that to Parker's heyday, the Zipper Series had plays for all five guys, and it wasn't Parker's decision as to who got the ball. The set leveraged Parker's gravity and gave him opportunities to attack without constantly putting the ball in his hands. That's what the Spurs need: An offense that emphasizes Kawhi but also allows the others to be options and not contingencies.
Despite the dearth of playmakers, the team managed to make it work without Kawhi last night. That's not going to always be the case, because Simmons and Nico are inconsistent. But with guys like Mills and Lee, the Spurs can still play a really nice floor game. They just need to figure out how to do that while not marginalizing Leonard.
Wrong.
Parker and Gino are 5 years past being
consistent play makers for the season and playoffs.
Get the a real pg asap,
Or the Spurs may not make the playoffs.
Wrong.
Despite what his shills think, yes. I don't think the Spurs should be built on Kawhiso. Not to the extent they are. No one can get into rhythm because their touches completely depend on when Kawhi has to pass or wants to pass. If you contrast that to Parker's heyday, the Zipper Series had plays for all five guys, and it wasn't Parker's decision as to who got the ball. The set leveraged Parker's gravity and gave him opportunities to attack without constantly putting the ball in his hands. That's what the Spurs need: An offense that emphasizes Kawhi but also allows the others to be options and not contingencies.
Despite the dearth of playmakers, the team managed to make it work without Kawhi last night. That's not going to always be the case, because Simmons and Nico are inconsistent. But with guys like Mills and Lee, the Spurs can still play a really nice floor game. They just need to figure out how to do that while not marginalizing Leonard.
I strongly agree. I'm not calling for the "beautiful" game because that isn't realistic with this roster makeup, but the Spurs need to be a little more unpredictable. The Kawhiso doesn't really do anything but get Kawhi going if he is making shots and it doesn't bend the opposition defense enough to open up other options or suck in the defense enough to get them out of position to allow our guys to punish on the offensive boards.
MultiTroll
11-10-2016, 10:15 AM
Great stretch of D to bring us from 11 down to tied.
Popped puts Gasoft back in, pulls Danny and Simmons.
NameLess Scrub
11-10-2016, 10:32 AM
Despite what his shills think, yes. I don't think the Spurs should be built on Kawhiso. Not to the extent they are. No one can get into rhythm because their touches completely depend on when Kawhi has to pass or wants to pass. If you contrast that to Parker's heyday, the Zipper Series had plays for all five guys, and it wasn't Parker's decision as to who got the ball. The set leveraged Parker's gravity and gave him opportunities to attack without constantly putting the ball in his hands. That's what the Spurs need: An offense that emphasizes Kawhi but also allows the others to be options and not contingencies.
Despite the dearth of playmakers, the team managed to make it work without Kawhi last night. That's not going to always be the case, because Simmons and Nico are inconsistent. But with guys like Mills and Lee, the Spurs can still play a really nice floor game. They just need to figure out how to do that while not marginalizing Leonard.
I strongly agree. I'm not calling for the "beautiful" game because that isn't realistic with this roster makeup, but the Spurs need to be a little more unpredictable. The Kawhiso doesn't really do anything but get Kawhi going if he is making shots and it doesn't bend the opposition defense enough to open up other options or suck in the defense enough to get them out of position to allow our guys to punish on the offensive boards.
Good points :toast
Kawhi's defense has been exposed. He's been reaping the same benefits Bowen did, while they're both fine defenders, they looked a lot better having the best rim protector and defensive coordinator of all time behind them. Not only has our rim protection been bad, the communication on D has been horrific to watch night in and night out.
james evans
11-10-2016, 01:04 PM
Would you say Kawhi ISOs make everyone else worse?
I'm definitely worried about that, and also that his offensive load is too heavy considering they need him to be at his best on defense too.
no, because Mills seems to get a lot of open 3's off Kawhi passes because he moves without the ball. Aldridge just wants to camp out 20 feet from the basket a and Gasol and just soft as wet tisue
HarlemHeat37
11-10-2016, 01:28 PM
Since it's still early in the season and there is plenty of time for experimentation, I'd like to see Pop try Simmons-Green-Kawhi together, tbh..
Despite the short length of the stint last night, I enjoyed seeing Simmons and Green on the floor together(which helped lead the Spurs to a run to tie the game), rather than having 1 sub out for the other..
Horse
11-10-2016, 01:29 PM
Two new lineups. New players at nearly all spots. It'll take time to learn each other. If they play a fill game of defense, they're looking really good. Not worried, as that comes with time.
When the fuck will people get this? You can see many players not where they should be and so many unforced turnovers leading to easy points. This will all improve with time. We never see what the team is gonna be till after the ASB.
SAGirl
11-10-2016, 09:32 PM
Would you say Kawhi ISOs make everyone else worse?
I'm definitely worried about that, and also that his offensive load is too heavy considering they need him to be at his best on defense too.
That kind of offense doesn't lead to good shots for others IMO. He's a terrific scorer, but you might as well throw the Austin Toros out there with Kiwi bc he's not passing or making others better. I agree with Chinook in something he said elsewhere, you can still have him handle the ball and take a lot of shots, be high usage, but add variety to how he gets those shots, so that in some circumstances, the offense places defenders in tough situations on how they are going to defend him and his teammate at the same time, ending up with a good look for one of the two.
Bad offense leads to bad defense, when you have good offense you make shots and it allows for the team to set up their defense how they prefer. When Kawhi is forcing jumpshots looking for a foul that leads to a long rebound and a shot for the other team in transition the other way. It's all tied up together, as well as teammates going cold or not getting good looks bc they have not been involved in spots that are good for them.
MaNu4Tres
11-10-2016, 09:40 PM
Since it's still early in the season and there is plenty of time for experimentation, I'd like to see Pop try Simmons-Green-Kawhi together, tbh..
Despite the short length of the stint last night, I enjoyed seeing Simmons and Green on the floor together(which helped lead the Spurs to a run to tie the game), rather than having 1 sub out for the other..
Expect the village to chime in saying, " but but you need a point guard".
I agree 100%. A Kawhi - Simmons- Green - Aldridge - Dedmon would be a very interesting line up. One I'd love to see.
sasaint
11-10-2016, 10:29 PM
Expect the village to chime in saying, " but but you need a point guard".
I agree 100%. A Kawhi - Simmons- Green - Aldridge - Dedmon would be a very interesting line up. One I'd love to see.
Might be the best lineup the Spurs could put on the floor. I think Simmons could grow a lot in that lineup, really internalizing how to play within himself.
theMatrix
11-11-2016, 10:42 AM
Why not run the loop for kawhi like we have been running for parker for years? run some strong or weak action, some horns action that leads to kawhi having a step ahead of the defender before penetrating, everyone else gets involved, defenders run around and be out of position. Instead, iso kawhi at the top of the key like every other team is doing with their super stars.. its just not spurs basketball anymore.
YGWHI
11-11-2016, 11:41 AM
That's what the Spurs need: An offense that emphasizes Kawhi but also allows the others to be options and not contingencies.
you can still have him handle the ball and take a lot of shots, be high usage, but add variety to how he gets those shots
I wonder who has to design that type of offense, who has to draw those kind of plays...Kawhi? Or Pop?
Kawhi's one of the most coachable superstars in the league, if he is playing in this way that's because Pop, not on Kawhi.
Why not run the loop for kawhi like we have been running for parker for years? run some strong or weak action, some horns action that leads to kawhi having a step ahead of the defender before penetrating, everyone else gets involved, defenders run around and be out of position. Instead, iso kawhi at the top of the key like every other team is doing with their super stars...
Good questions...Ask him -> :pop:
YGWHI
11-11-2016, 11:49 AM
The Spurs were great defensively when Green on the floor.
With Danny on the floor the Rockets outplayed the Spurs in the first minutes of the game.
He's a big upgrade for the team-defense but he won't fix everything on defense.
He won't fix Parker/Patty-Manu weak backcourt on defense or Pau's lack of mobility which makes him a liability defending pick and rolls...
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