Since 2011-2012, when Danny Green hits at least 3 three's....

[Dex]

....the Spurs have won 82% (119/146) of those games. :wow

When Danny is active and doesn't hit at least 3 three's, that percentage drops to 71% (220/312).

Granted, the numbers are a bit skewed since the Spurs have won a metric shit-ton of games in that span either way...but that's a big difference for one shot from one player. Goes to show how important Danny's shooting is to the system.

Here is hoping Verde keeps this form up and keeps bringin' the D! :bobo

[Chinook]

He's not getting enough looks. Dude should be using 10-13 possessions a game. Right now, he's at 7.3. With team having a dearth of bucket-getters, having Green be a consistent offensive threat is a necessity. If his shot holds up, there's no way he shouldn't be averaging 15 pp36/13ppg.

[Spur|n|Austin]

And with the looks he is getting he's either passing or doing his dribble-in and pass out.

[NameLess Scrub]

....the Spurs have won 82% (119/146) of those games. :wow

When Danny is active and doesn't hit at least 3 three's, that percentage drops to 71% (220/312).

Granted, the numbers are a bit skewed since the Spurs have won a metric shit-ton of games in that span either way...but that's a big difference for one shot from one player. Goes to show how important Danny's shooting is to the system.

Here is hoping Verde keeps this form up and keeps bringin' the D! :bobo

Honestly hope that ridiculous double clutch 3 he made in WAS is like a sign the gates are open for him.

[100%duncan]

He's always been a top 4 player on the team. When he's on, he puts us on a whole nother level it's incredible considering his limitations.

[Chinook]

And with the looks he is getting he's either passing or doing his dribble-in and pass out.

I feel like he's taken a couple of moderately contested threes this season and hit them, which is really encouraging for his long-term prognosis. I think if the Spurs don't prioritize getting him the ball, he's not going to get looks. First, the book is out on Danny, so teams aren't going to leave him hope and second, Kawhi will never have Parker's gravity.

The latter case the Spurs have tried to remedy by having Danny be the entry-passer. It didn't work last year, but it's working well enough this year. If Danny is comfortable taking contested threes and hits them at a decent rate, that will help him and LMA a ton.

The former case will only be resolved with plays and actions that give him the ball. The plays are rare but have been working when they get to happen (except the corner Hammer, which has been well-scouted). The actions have been getting him open, but it's not ingrained in the offense to look for him at certain points. He's still being treated mostly as a bailout man or a way to exploit weak defense. There's no "Well at this point in this play, you know so and so is going to make a cut which will leave Danny open about half the time, so look for him then." contingency in their offense.

[Solid D]

Excellent insight, Dex.

[MI21]

Danny is really unselfish. I would like to see him take another 2 3PA per game. The looks are there, they will just be semi contested which for Danny, has never really been a problem anyway.

[100%duncan]

I feel like he's taken a couple of moderately contested threes this season and hit them, which is really encouraging for his long-term prognosis. I think if the Spurs don't prioritize getting him the ball, he's not going to get looks. First, the book is out on Danny, so teams aren't going to leave him hope and second, Kawhi will never have Parker's gravity.

The latter case the Spurs have tried to remedy by having Danny be the entry-passer. It didn't work last year, but it's working well enough this year. If Danny is comfortable taking contested threes and hits them at a decent rate, that will help him and LMA a ton.

The former case will only be resolved with plays and actions that give him the ball. The plays are rare but have been working when they get to happen (except the corner Hammer, which has been well-scouted). The actions have been getting him open, but it's not ingrained in the offense to look for him at certain points. He's still being treated mostly as a bailout man or a way to exploit weak defense. There's no "Well at this point in this play, you know so and so is going to make a cut which will leave Danny open about half the time, so look for him then." contingency in their offense.

I dont know. Kawhi commands 4 players at times when he goes in the paint, you may have meant to say he doesnt have the same playmaking skills that TP does. I agree though with your previous post, Danny needs more looks. Takeaway those turnaround fadeaways from LMA and forced shots from Kawhi and give it to Danny instead.

[Dex]

I dont know. Kawhi commands 4 players at times when he goes in the paint, you may have meant to say he doesnt have the same playmaking skills that TP does. I agree though with your previous post, Danny needs more looks. Takeaway those turnaround fadeaways from LMA and forced shots from Kawhi and give it to Danny instead.

OMG this please.

In fact, I'll give Kawhi his forced shots. His offense has progressed so far that even those he can hit at a consistent clip, and they keep him engaged and fired up. If you had Kawhi worrying about what is a bad shot vs. a good shot, I'm afraid he would become tentative.

As for LMA's turnaround...that shit has got to go.

[sasaint]

OMG this please.

In fact, I'll give Kawhi his forced shots. His offense has progressed so far that even those he can hit at a consistent clip, and they keep him engaged and fired up. If you had Kawhi worrying about what is a bad shot vs. a good shot, I'm afraid he would become tentative.

As for LMA's turnaround...that shit has got to go.

They won't go until LMA goes.

[GSH]

I feel like he's taken a couple of moderately contested threes this season and hit them, which is really encouraging for his long-term prognosis. I think if the Spurs don't prioritize getting him the ball, he's not going to get looks. First, the book is out on Danny, so teams aren't going to leave him hope and second, Kawhi will never have Parker's gravity.

I dont know. Kawhi commands 4 players at times when he goes in the paint, you may have meant to say he doesnt have the same playmaking skills that TP does. I agree though with your previous post, Danny needs more looks.


One of the things that has been bugging the shit out of me about this team is that guys are not moving without the ball. Sometimes they hardly move at all, and when they do move, they aren't making hard cuts and/or creating clean passing lanes. When 3-4 players converge on Kawhi in the paint, you would think someone would be wide open - or open enough to make a second pass to someone who is wide open.

I don't know if it's a chicken-or-egg kind of thing, and guys aren't moving because the plan is to just give the ball to Kawhi and get out of the way. But night after night, I'm watching defenders camp in passing lanes and not have to move more than a step to stay between ball and man. Personally, I think this offense must be operating pretty much the way Pop intends, or he'd be screaming a lot more. But getting an open look isn't just the responsibility of the man with the ball.

[Chinook]

One of the things that has been bugging the shit out of me about this team is that guys are not moving without the ball. Sometimes they hardly move at all, and when they do move, they aren't making hard cuts and/or creating clean passing lanes. When 3-4 players converge on Kawhi in the paint, you would think someone would be wide open - or open enough to make a second pass to someone who is wide open.

I don't know if it's a chicken-or-egg kind of thing, and guys aren't moving because the plan is to just give the ball to Kawhi and get out of the way. But night after night, I'm watching defenders camp in passing lanes and not have to move more than a step to stay between ball and man. Personally, I think this offense must be operating pretty much the way Pop intends, or he'd be screaming a lot more. But getting an open look isn't just the responsibility of the man with the ball.

The two big things affecting that are 1) a lack of high-IQ screens to create open looks and 2) a lack of predictability on where the other guys should be to get good looks.

Splitter being done/gone hurts quite a bit, as he loved setting random back-picks. Duncan did too. You aren't going to get great off-ball movement just from sliding around the perimeter or ineffective cuts.

The second reason is much bigger. Kawhiso and post-up plays for LMA aren't really good ways to get open looks. Kawhi pretty much passes either when he has to or when he sees an opening. That's fine for him, but for the guy playing off the ball, that means he can't move very much. He's running the risk of either faking Kawhi out by not being where he just was before or clunking up the play by cutting through and bringing in a secondary defender. For post-ups the passes come off doubles, which can come at different times and from different places. The spacers can't be moving around, because then LMA doesn't have release valves

Contrast that to a Parker PnR and you have plenty of windows to get passes. You know where to slide depending on where Tony was in his drive. It's easy to stay in rhythm. It's like "You'll get the ball right now, or you'll slide to the corner for the next window to open in two seconds." Then of course, the Zipper Series had a ton of ways to get open since it wasn't based on Tony's passing but his speed. The Spurs offense right now is just too basic to get that kind of movement.

[Kawhitstorm]

I feel like he's taken a couple of moderately contested threes this season and hit them, which is really encouraging for his long-term prognosis. I think if the Spurs don't prioritize getting him the ball, he's not going to get looks. First, the book is out on Danny, so teams aren't going to leave him hope and second, Kawhi will never have Parker's gravity.

The latter case the Spurs have tried to remedy by having Danny be the entry-passer. It didn't work last year, but it's working well enough this year. If Danny is comfortable taking contested threes and hits them at a decent rate, that will help him and LMA a ton.

Yeah, he isn't comfortable taking contested 3s unlike Stephen Jackson who had an unblockable high release & didn't flinch even when defenders were running at him.

[T Park]

Danny Green is so underrated and so un appreciated with the fan base. It's a crime.

[sasaint]

I feel like he's taken a couple of moderately contested threes this season and hit them, which is really encouraging for his long-term prognosis. I think if the Spurs don't prioritize getting him the ball, he's not going to get looks. First, the book is out on Danny, so teams aren't going to leave him hope and second, Kawhi will never have Parker's gravity.

The latter case the Spurs have tried to remedy by having Danny be the entry-passer. It didn't work last year, but it's working well enough this year. If Danny is comfortable taking contested threes and hits them at a decent rate, that will help him and LMA a ton.

The former case will only be resolved with plays and actions that give him the ball. The plays are rare but have been working when they get to happen (except the corner Hammer, which has been well-scouted). The actions have been getting him open, but it's not ingrained in the offense to look for him at certain points. He's still being treated mostly as a bailout man or a way to exploit weak defense. There's no "Well at this point in this play, you know so and so is going to make a cut which will leave Danny open about half the time, so look for him then." contingency in their offense.

Danny must have worked tirelessly on both his dribbling and passing this past offseason. He is dribbling as much or more this season than he did last season. But, whereas last season plenty of ST posters were demanding his head, this season nobody has even commented on how much he has put the ball on the floor. I don't have any stats to back me up, but I would be willing to bet that he has more assists at this juncture than he ever has 17 games into a season. Danny looks much more comfortable and capable with his expanded role. Anybody who thinks Danny was freelancing last season doesn't know Pop. Pop wanted both Kawhi and Danny to expand their games. Both have. Kawhi's becoming so dominant has just overshadowed the fact that Danny has shown some impressive development, too.

[GSH]

You aren't going to get great off-ball movement just from sliding around the perimeter or ineffective cuts.


Yes. "Just sliding around the perimeter" and making ineffective cuts is EXACTLY what I've been wanting to see more of. Now I understand that those things wouldn't help.


"So you see - ineffective cuts are... ineffective."
https://usatcollege.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/178493509.jpg

[SAGirl]

Danny Green is so underrated and so un appreciated with the fan base. It's a crime.Probably just with the "noisy" fanbase here. It gets too negative here. Sometimes you'd think we were talking about a team that is tanking. It's a crime.. I agree. I think Danny has been spectacular to start the season. I know he said his eyesight wasn't it, but he not only is shooting well, he's playing with a lot of confidence. Last season he went through stretches that his confidence was lacking. Anyways, yes he's very underrated even with some fans... though I think there are more that do appreciate his contributions at this point, they are just not as noisy as all the trolling...

[100%duncan]

The two big things affecting that are 1) a lack of high-IQ screens to create open looks and 2) a lack of predictability on where the other guys should be to get good looks.

Splitter being done/gone hurts quite a bit, as he loved setting random back-picks. Duncan did too. You aren't going to get great off-ball movement just from sliding around the perimeter or ineffective cuts.

The second reason is much bigger. Kawhiso and post-up plays for LMA aren't really good ways to get open looks. Kawhi pretty much passes either when he has to or when he sees an opening. That's fine for him, but for the guy playing off the ball, that means he can't move very much. He's running the risk of either faking Kawhi out by not being where he just was before or clunking up the play by cutting through and bringing in a secondary defender. For post-ups the passes come off doubles, which can come at different times and from different places. The spacers can't be moving around, because then LMA doesn't have release valves

Contrast that to a Parker PnR and you have plenty of windows to get passes. You know where to slide depending on where Tony was in his drive. It's easy to stay in rhythm. It's like "You'll get the ball right now, or you'll slide to the corner for the next window to open in two seconds." Then of course, the Zipper Series had a ton of ways to get open since it wasn't based on Tony's passing but his speed. The Spurs offense right now is just too basic to get that kind of movement.

So where did the Kawhi doesnt draw as much as Parker come from? :lol You seem to be making harsh judgement or bold takes but always backtrack after, the problem is the playmaking. Parker didn't really draw 3-4 players every time he PnR'd

[Chinook]

Yes. "Just sliding around the perimeter" and making ineffective cuts is EXACTLY what I've been wanting to see more of. Now I understand that those things wouldn't help.


"So you see - ineffective cuts are... ineffective."
https://usatcollege.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/178493509.jpg

Just waiting for this shtick to run its course, I guess.

[Chinook]

So where did the Kawhi doesnt draw as much as Parker come from? :lol You seem to be making harsh judgement or bold takes but always backtrack after, the problem is the playmaking. Parker didn't really draw 3-4 players every time he PnR'd

You didn't even register what my post was about. The reason why the Parker-led Spurs had a better offense is because the PnR is a timing play. Kawhiso may draw more attention (though that's only if you don't calibrate for the type of play it is), but it has no set timing. Kawhi will pass when he sees a man open or when he can't score himself. PnR plays aren't designed that way. The handler has certain options to pass the ball to depending on where they are in the play.

It's analogous to designed runs in American Football. All the linemen and blockers known where to go on those plays. Some really complex stuff happens, but it's already been practiced to the point that there isn't anything but execution left. Kawhisos and LMA post-up plays are like QBs scrambling or buying time in the pocket. The line have no idea what to do for the most part, and you get a lot more holding calls, because they lose leverage on their men. It's not that the RB is better at running than the QB; it's that when everyone can just do their jobs in a set rhythm, execution is much easier.

[MaNu4Tres]

You didn't even register what my post was about. The reason why the Parker-led Spurs had a better offense is because the PnR is a timing play. Kawhiso may draw more attention (though that's only if you don't calibrate for the type of play it is), but it has no set timing. Kawhi will pass when he sees a man open or when he can't score himself. PnR plays aren't designed that way. The handler has certain options to pass the ball to depending on where they are in the play.

It's analogous to designed runs in American Football. All the linemen and blockers known where to go on those plays. Some really complex stuff happens, but it's already been practiced to the point that there isn't anything but execution left. Kawhisos and LMA post-up plays are like QBs scrambling or buying time in the pocket. The line have no idea what to do for the most part, and you get a lot more holding calls, because they lose leverage on their men. It's not that the RB is better at running than the QB; it's that when everyone can just do their jobs in a set rhythm, execution is much easier.


Its as simple as this.

Parker & Manu had the foot speed, quickness in change of direction and acceleration that enabled them to create significant separation from their man in ISOs or in PnRs. They'd be able to draw in the weakside D a lot quicker, which opened up wider passing lanes and off ball opportunities for their teammates

Kawhi doesn't have the same foot speed, quickness, or acceleration. The times he does turn the corner on PnRs his guy is usually on his hip as Kawhi physically fights his way around the corner. He doesn't have the vision either as sometimes the strong on ball D makes him reverse his dribble right into congested areas of the court where one weakside defender can essentially defend two guys ( Kawhi and his man) at the same time.

Kawhi doesn't have the same quickness, foot speed, acceleration or vision to be as effective in breaking down a defense like Parker and Manu did in their prime.

Sure Kawhi can still be effective in PnR situations with his scoring because of his elite length/strength using his body to get off mid-range pull ups and using his body to get off shots in the paint, but he will likely never be able to break down defenses like Parker and Manu did in their prime.

[spursistan]

Easily the 2nd most impactful player on the team after Kawhi..

That's what I hate the most about LMA in contrast: taking too much volume shooting and overall usage for a paltry sway on the team final results..the advanced metrics back that up..

[dabom]

Its as simple as this.

Parker & Manu had the foot speed, quickness in change of direction and acceleration that enabled them to create significant separation from their man in ISOs or in PnRs. They'd be able to draw in the weakside D a lot quicker, which opened up wider passing lanes and off ball opportunities for their teammates

Kawhi doesn't have the same foot speed, quickness, or acceleration. The times he does turn the corner on PnRs his guy is usually on his hip as Kawhi physically fights his way around the corner. He doesn't have the vision either as sometimes the strong on ball D makes him reverse his dribble right into congested areas of the court where one weakside defender can essentially defend two guys ( Kawhi and his man) at the same time.

Kawhi doesn't have the same quickness, foot speed, acceleration or vision to be as effective in breaking down a defense like Parker and Manu did in their prime.

Sure Kawhi can still be effective in PnR situations with his scoring because of his elite length/strength using his body to get off mid-range pull ups and using his body to get off shots in the paint, but he will likely never be able to break down defenses like Parker and Manu did in their prime.

Kawhi is already a better scorer and pnr ball handler mid-range shooter three point shooter driver to the basket. He draws easily 2 or 3 players on every play. He is light years ahead of any Parker lead offense. Porker had Manu for other guard duties. Kawhi has zero. :lol

[Chinook]

Its as simple as this.

Parker & Manu had the foot speed, quickness in change of direction and acceleration that enabled them to create significant separation from their man in ISOs or in PnRs. They'd be able to draw in the weakside D a lot quicker, which opened up wider passing lanes and off ball opportunities for their teammates

Kawhi doesn't have the same foot speed, quickness, or acceleration. The times he does turn the corner on PnRs his guy is usually on his hip as Kawhi physically fights his way around the corner. He doesn't have the vision either as sometimes the strong on ball D makes him reverse his dribble right into congested areas of the court where one weakside defender can essentially defend two guys ( Kawhi and his man) at the same time.

Kawhi doesn't have the same quickness, foot speed, acceleration or vision to be as effective in breaking down a defense like Parker and Manu did in their prime.

Sure Kawhi can still be effective in PnR situations with his scoring because of his elite length/strength using his body to get off mid-range pull ups and using his body to get off shots in the paint, but he will likely never be able to break down defenses like Parker and Manu did in their prime.

Yes, this is all true. That's a big reason why a Kawhi-led PnR offense probably won't be a thing for the Spurs. He'll run some here and there, especially with LMA but he won't do it all the time. I'd actually like to see him and Green do a 3/2 PnF just to cause switching issues.

Anyway, nothing leveraged Parker's elite speed like the Zipper Series did. Tony was getting good looks for guys without even touching the ball, that's how crazy-good that set was in his prime. When people try to act like Kawhi has that type of gravity, I just shake my head. Having guys collapse on you in the paint is nowhere near being able to just run around the basket and turn a defense inside out. That people can't admit that Parker was a HoF offensive player is beyond me.

[dabom]

Ifs spurs had 5 year younger Manu we'd be thinking of 2peating.

[dabom]

Are people just gonna ignore porker had another ball handler? :lmao

[Drom John]

I don't have any stats to back me up, but I would be willing to bet that he has more assists at this juncture than he ever has 17 games into a season.

You lose the bet. Green has fewer assists at this juncture than Danny ever has 17 games into a season. :sucker

Most assists by Danny Green in first 17 games into a Spurs season.
39 2015-16 (but he played in 17 of those games), 2.29 a/g
29 2014-15 17 games 1.71 a/g
24 2011-12 17 games 1.41 a/g
24 2012-13 17 games 1.41 a/g
24 2013-14 17 games 1.41 a/g
23 2016-17 9 games 2.56 a/g

However, you win the argument. :bobo

[Drom John]

The most assists by Danny Green as a Spur in Danny's first 9 games of a season:

23 2016-17
20 2015-16

[Chinook]

Thanks, as always, Drom. Green is killing it in assists per36 compared to his average. But this is Danny 2.0 time, and we'll see if it tapers off like it tends to do every year.

[sasaint]

The two big things affecting that are 1) a lack of high-IQ screens to create open looks and 2) a lack of predictability on where the other guys should be to get good looks.

Splitter being done/gone hurts quite a bit, as he loved setting random back-picks. Duncan did too. You aren't going to get great off-ball movement just from sliding around the perimeter or ineffective cuts.

The second reason is much bigger. Kawhiso and post-up plays for LMA aren't really good ways to get open looks. Kawhi pretty much passes either when he has to or when he sees an opening. That's fine for him, but for the guy playing off the ball, that means he can't move very much. He's running the risk of either faking Kawhi out by not being where he just was before or clunking up the play by cutting through and bringing in a secondary defender. For post-ups the passes come off doubles, which can come at different times and from different places. The spacers can't be moving around, because then LMA doesn't have release valves

Contrast that to a Parker PnR and you have plenty of windows to get passes. You know where to slide depending on where Tony was in his drive. It's easy to stay in rhythm. It's like "You'll get the ball right now, or you'll slide to the corner for the next window to open in two seconds." Then of course, the Zipper Series had a ton of ways to get open since it wasn't based on Tony's passing but his speed. The Spurs offense right now is just too basic to get that kind of movement.

To some extent iso-ball is just stultifying. That is exacerbated by LMA. When he gets the ball in an iso, he is going to shoot the ball a huge percentage of the time - whether the shot is good or forced. He is not likely to pass out of an iso, and if he does, those passes will rarely result in an assist. He ranks like 12th on the team in assists per 36 mins. In fact his passing game is so terrible that when he does pass the ball it is not unlikely that it will result in a turnover. But his BBIQ is so low and his ego so big that iso ball seems to be about the only offense for which he is suited - either by skill set or by mentality.

[Sean Cagney]

Danny Green is so underrated and so un appreciated with the fan base. It's a crime.^^^ This

[Chinook]

To some extent iso-ball is just stultifying. That is exacerbated by LMA. When he gets the ball in an iso, he is going to shoot the ball a huge percentage of the time - whether the shot is good or forced. He is not likely to pass out of an iso, and if he does, those passes will rarely result in an assist. He ranks like 12th on the team in assists per 36 mins. In fact his passing game is so terrible that when he does pass the ball it is not unlikely that it will result in a turnover. But his BBIQ is so low and his ego so big that iso ball seems to be about the only offense for which he is suited - either by skill set or by mentality.

And yet, he's a decent volume scorer. I think he'll be fine in the long run. Games like the Boston match give me hope that he'll fit in with the offense once it gets humming.

[sasaint]

You lose the bet. Green has fewer assists at this juncture than Danny ever has 17 games into a season. :sucker

Most assists by Danny Green in first 17 games into a Spurs season.
39 2015-16 (but he played in 17 of those games), 2.29 a/g
29 2014-15 17 games 1.71 a/g
24 2011-12 17 games 1.41 a/g
24 2012-13 17 games 1.41 a/g
24 2013-14 17 games 1.41 a/g
23 2016-17 9 games 2.56 a/g

However, you win the argument. :bobo

:lol Yeah, I forgot to deduct the games in which Danny didn't play. Thanks for proving the point I was trying to make! :toast

[YGWHI]

That people can't admit that Parker was a HoF offensive player is beyond me.

WHO? Parker is a HoF player because his offense and speed. Who does not agree with this?

As point guard, he never was the playmaker that Nash was, or even Manu was, so his best attributes were his offensive moves. And I don't read anyone on this forum saying otherwise.

The issue is you can't admit that Kawhi is other GREAT offensive player.

You saying that him doesn't draw many attention like prime Parker when we already see how the defense reacts when he attacks the rim and how teams are planning against him, doesn't help to your case as Kawhi's biggest detractor here.

If you says that Kawhi isn't a great playmaker like LeBron, that's true. If you says that Kawhi doesn't draw defensive attention like other primary scorers, you're wrong.

Kawhi's #1 on PPP in P&Rs, #1 in FG% on drives... He has on him the best opposite defender and has 4 guys on him when he drives to the hoop.

The gravity he has pulling defenders away opens up the offense for Parker now, that's why Kawhi is the main reason for Paker still looking decent.

But I guess there are people stupid enough to continue ignoring this.

[YGWHI]

When 3-4 players converge on Kawhi in the paint
Four players on Kawhi? How you dare to say that? "Kawhi doesn't have that gravity on offense"


So where did the Kawhi doesnt draw as much as Parker come from?
In a very "unknown dimension" =>Chinnok's mind.



You seem to be making harsh judgement or bold takes but always backtrack after
No shit. Is he doing it?




Again?

[YGWHI]

Kawhi will pass when he sees a man open

Which is so bad, right?

4.8 ASP in the last 5 games, career high for him.

"But but those are so ineffective plays :cry!

This guy...SMH

[DPG21920]

Once Danny starts doing the transition pull-up 3's again you will know he's in full-blown DG3 mode.

[Spurs_619]

Which is so bad, right?

4.8 ASP in the last 5 games, career high for him.

"But but those are so ineffective plays :cry!

This guy...SMH


Keep in mind chinook used to say that green>kawhi overall in 2014.

[TD 21]

Its as simple as this.

Parker & Manu had the foot speed, quickness in change of direction and acceleration that enabled them to create significant separation from their man in ISOs or in PnRs. They'd be able to draw in the weakside D a lot quicker, which opened up wider passing lanes and off ball opportunities for their teammates

Kawhi doesn't have the same foot speed, quickness, or acceleration. The times he does turn the corner on PnRs his guy is usually on his hip as Kawhi physically fights his way around the corner. He doesn't have the vision either as sometimes the strong on ball D makes him reverse his dribble right into congested areas of the court where one weakside defender can essentially defend two guys ( Kawhi and his man) at the same time.

Kawhi doesn't have the same quickness, foot speed, acceleration or vision to be as effective in breaking down a defense like Parker and Manu did in their prime.

Sure Kawhi can still be effective in PnR situations with his scoring because of his elite length/strength using his body to get off mid-range pull ups and using his body to get off shots in the paint, but he will likely never be able to break down defenses like Parker and Manu did in their prime.

:tu

This is the primary reason for the decline in the aesthetics of the offense in the past 2+ seasons.


As far as Green, I'm not the least bit surprised. His effectiveness is essentially the product of good offense, so he's the greatest measure of how well the offense is flowing and functioning.

[YGWHI]

Keep in mind chinook used to say that green>kawhi overall in 2014.

Well, I didn't know it.

If he hates Kawhi because he thinks that Kawhi overshadowed Danny as defender/player in previous years and Danny deserved more media/fans attention...I'd understand it.

But I still think it's a very stupid way to show his frustration for not being Danny recognized.

At least Chinnok gets one thing right...Danny's AMAZING and deserves a LOT more credit.

[SAGirl]

Easily the 2nd most impactful player on the team after Kawhi..

That's what I hate the most about LMA in contrast: taking too much volume shooting and overall usage for a paltry sway on the team final results..the advanced metrics back that up..I would have to agree on both counts.

[timtonymanu]

Verde is looking good. Definitely more comfortable and confident than he was last year.

[diego]

Kawhi draws defenders because until very recently he hasn't shown much of a passing game, Chinook point is fair. Kawhi is amazing and easily a top 5 player right now, but he's a forward and he plays like one. He's just not a natural playmaker. I applaud him wholeheartedly for incorporating more drives and getting himself to the line, last year it was probably the only thing I posted about more than once and not only is he doing it, he'd doing it amazingly well. But despite the way he draws defenders most nights, Parker /Manu were guards with much much better ball skills and and could run the whole offense naturally while kawhi has to go one on 4 and power through. At this point saying anything about kawhi is nitpicking, he may as well been sent from another planet. If he continues to improve the way he has for even one more season.. It's incredible. No one could have ever dreamed for him to be this good, but he still has plenty of room to grow as a playmaker/ballhandler

[YGWHI]

Kawhi draws defenders...But despite the way he draws defenders most nights...Chinook point is fair
If you think Kawhi does that, then his point isn't 'fair' because he said otherwise.


but he's a forward and he plays like one
People expecting Kawhi to play point forward like LeBron or a guard like Manu as playmaker, is just stupid.

For most people LeBron is the best player in the NBA history behind Jordan, and Manu was a guard with a whole different skill set.

But Kawhi being different than Parker/Manu, and unique in his own way, doesn't mean that Kawhi isn't a great offensive player. He is. Tim played a game very different from Shaq's but it didn't mean anything.

[diego]

And more on topic green is the spurs x factor for about 4 years now, he can be very inconsistent but when his shot is on the offense goes from adequate to great

[diego]

I still think peak manu/Parker were better offensive players than kawhi right now, if he continues improving he has all the tools and opportunity to be better. It's not necessarily that he has to average 6 assists or whatever, it's more about how he controls the other teams D and finds his shots. If he's drawing four defenders and taking the shot himself, it's probably not a good longterm startegy

[Chinook]

I still think peak manu/Parker were better offensive players than kawhi right now, if he continues improving he has all the tools and opportunity to be better. It's not necessarily that he has to average 6 assists or whatever, it's more about how he controls the other teams D and finds his shots. If he's drawing four defenders and taking the shot himself, it's probably not a good longterm startegy

The idea that gravity=assists is completely wrong-headed, and I'm not surprised that the most intellectually dishonest player fan on this site went with it. Gravity has nothing to do with drawing defenders when you drive or when you pass. That's completely separate. Gravity instead has to do with how the defense guards you when you DON'T have the ball. High-gravity players tend to be dynamic shooters rather than scorers. Like Korver, Curry or Danny a couple of years ago. When those guys have the ball, their relative gravity diminishes to zero.

It's sort of like a dual-star system. The ball is a star and will always have gravity. But the players can have their own gravity off the ball, and when that happens, it changes the orbit of the defense. When the high-gravity guy has the ball, there's only one source, so the defense can play as normal. When Korver had the ball, the pressure he put on the defense pretty much fell apart. Everyone was looking at the ball anyway; they didn't have to be mindful of where Korver was at the moment.

Parker's gravity was very odd, because it wasn't based in shooting. Rather, it was based on his speed. Teams did not want to switch against him, so him running through three screens put a ton of pressure on the defense to not let him get over with a mismatch. That movement allowed Green, Manu or Leonard (the ON-BALL player) to initiate a play, because the entire defense was warped trying to keep up with Parker. Kawhi, not matter how good he is, will never have that effect. That's not a knock on him, even if his fans want to be silly about it. Parker is a HoF-caliber offensive player. It's a god-damned shame that he's so underappreciated for who he used to be.

[YGWHI]

I still think peak manu/Parker were better offensive players than kawhi right now, if he continues improving he has all the tools and opportunity to be better

Kawhi's 25 years old, Manu was 25 in 2002. Call me crazy but I'll take this Kawhi over 2002 Manu.

We have still 3 seasons more to know if Kawhi 28 years old will look how Manu did in 2005, to me the best MG's playoffs, unbelievable performance, co-MVP. That's why I agree with you on that part, he can be better.

[YGWHI]

I'm not surprised that the most intellectually dishonest player fan on this site went with it.

You seem mad. I wonder why?

It's funny because you already read it...How we call a guy who reads and talks about other but doesn't mention him and reply to him quoting other people? Smart? Or just a coward?

Really, I'm not sure why you're mad...After all, they deleted my list of your wrong takes on ST.

It's a safe way to make mistakes when others hide your shit.

[SASdynasty!]

In other news, this season the Spurs have won 92% of their games when Parker starts and 50% of their games when Mills starts.

[dabom]

Do Spurs win 92% of their games if kawhi is injured and Tony starting? Fuck no. :lmao

[ducks]

Danny Green is so underrated and so un appreciated with the fan base. It's a crime.

Tp is much more underrated

[Chinook]

In other news, this season the Spurs have won 92% of their games when Parker starts and 50% of their games when Mills starts.

This season, you mean. No way Parker's career winning percentage is near that high.

[YGWHI]

Well...players fans. We should make a poll to know who player is the most underrated by the fans here.

Chinook our loved Danny's player fan will say Green. So it's Danny? Parker? Kawhi on offense?


Sorry, I guess that poll-thead already exists. Should bump it.

[dabom]

Chinook doesn't know anything about double teams apparently. Can a poster be this wrong all the time? We'lol add it to the other shit he says. :lol

[100%duncan]

You didn't even register what my post was about. The reason why the Parker-led Spurs had a better offense is because the PnR is a timing play. Kawhiso may draw more attention (though that's only if you don't calibrate for the type of play it is), but it has no set timing. Kawhi will pass when he sees a man open or when he can't score himself. PnR plays aren't designed that way. The handler has certain options to pass the ball to depending on where they are in the play.

It's analogous to designed runs in American Football. All the linemen and blockers known where to go on those plays. Some really complex stuff happens, but it's already been practiced to the point that there isn't anything but execution left. Kawhisos and LMA post-up plays are like QBs scrambling or buying time in the pocket. The line have no idea what to do for the most part, and you get a lot more holding calls, because they lose leverage on their men. It's not that the RB is better at running than the QB; it's that when everyone can just do their jobs in a set rhythm, execution is much easier.

So you're agreeing that Parker is a better playmaker? Thanks.

[Chinook]

So you're agreeing that Parker is a better playmaker? Thanks.

Yes. Was that the point of the post? No. The post wasn't about the players. It was about the plays. It's easier for guys to get shots out plays like PnRs, because they know where they have to be and when to get their looks. When you play in the post or iso, the defense dictates the timing, along with the passing player. So the off-ball guys don't know if or when or where they will get the ball. That's why Green's last two seasons have seen his attempts per 36 drop to the lowest they've been since his first years starting.

The problem isn't that Kawhi is selfish or can't pass. It's that the style of offense the Spurs have been playing (perhaps due to his and LMA's skill-sets) is not going to generate a lot of efficient rhythm looks for others. This criticism is much older than the Kawhiso era. It goes back to guys like Kobe, Melo and Joe Johnson at least. Most of the guys complaining about my take here would have had no issue if I were talking about Kobe or Melo instead.

[100%duncan]

Yes. Was that the point of the post? No. The post wasn't about the players. It was about the plays. It's easier for guys to get shots out plays like PnRs, because they know where they have to be and when to get their looks. When you play in the post or iso, the defense dictates the timing, along with the passing player. So the off-ball guys don't know if or when or where they will get the ball. That's why Green's last two seasons have seen his attempts per 36 drop to the lowest they've been since his first years starting.

The problem isn't that Kawhi is selfish or can't pass. It's that the style of offense the Spurs have been playing (perhaps due to his and LMA's skill-sets) is not going to generate a lot of efficient rhythm looks for others. This criticism is much older than the Kawhiso era. It goes back to guys like Kobe, Melo and Joe Johnson at least. Most of the guys complaining about my take here would have had no issue if I were talking about Kobe or Melo instead.

But I reacted to your take that Kawhi doesn't warrant as much defenders as TP did which is completely false. No need to backtrack, I was just pointing out your mistake.

[Chinook]

But I reacted to your take that Kawhi doesn't warrant as much defenders as TP did which is completely false. No need to backtrack, I was just pointing out your mistake.

No, you replied to this post:


The two big things affecting that are 1) a lack of high-IQ screens to create open looks and 2) a lack of predictability on where the other guys should be to get good looks.

Splitter being done/gone hurts quite a bit, as he loved setting random back-picks. Duncan did too. You aren't going to get great off-ball movement just from sliding around the perimeter or ineffective cuts.

The second reason is much bigger. Kawhiso and post-up plays for LMA aren't really good ways to get open looks. Kawhi pretty much passes either when he has to or when he sees an opening. That's fine for him, but for the guy playing off the ball, that means he can't move very much. He's running the risk of either faking Kawhi out by not being where he just was before or clunking up the play by cutting through and bringing in a secondary defender. For post-ups the passes come off doubles, which can come at different times and from different places. The spacers can't be moving around, because then LMA doesn't have release valves

Contrast that to a Parker PnR and you have plenty of windows to get passes. You know where to slide depending on where Tony was in his drive. It's easy to stay in rhythm. It's like "You'll get the ball right now, or you'll slide to the corner for the next window to open in two seconds." Then of course, the Zipper Series had a ton of ways to get open since it wasn't based on Tony's passing but his speed. The Spurs offense right now is just too basic to get that kind of movement.

That was about plays, not players. It was comparing Kawhi iso plays, LMA post-ups and Parker PnRs. You assumed that was a player-fan, anti-Kawhi argument. That was your mistake, which you keep repeating. You should just admit that you either jumped the gun with your interpretation or replied to the wrong thread by mistake.

This thread had nothing to do with how many defenders Kawhi warrants. That's a completely valid point of discussion that can, has and will be discussed in other threads.

[Dex]

Ahh, SpursTalk....where a Danny Green thread can turn into a Parker vs. Kawhi debate.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/George-Costanza-Eating-Popcorn.gif

[Chinook]

Ahh, SpursTalk....where a Danny Green thread can turn into a Parker vs. Kawhi debate.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/George-Costanza-Eating-Popcorn.gif

Ugh, true. But if people want him to be a bigger part of the offense, then the offense has to change. You can't compare 2012-2014 to 2015-2016 without comparing the way the offenses are run. Could you imagine Pop running 10 set plays for Green each game? I can't.

[dabom]

Danny can't even dribble the ball. :lmao

[Dex]

Ugh, true. But if people want him to be a bigger part of the offense, then the offense has to change. You can't compare 2012-2014 to 2015-2016 without comparing the way the offenses are run. Could you imagine Pop running 10 set plays for Green each game? I can't.

Agreed. I think Green was definitely one of the beneficiaries of the Beautiful Game offense. With players moving and the ball kicking in and out and all around, defenses were bound to lose sight of him. Now he posts up outside the arc while Kawhi, Aldridge, or Pau go to work and waits for the kickout. Teams have to choose whether they will leave him to bring help, and I would imagine most teams will elect to bring help from other spots.

I'd be interested to see how Danny's offense and three-point production fare with the bench unit (who still run more motion) vs. the starting lineup.

[Chinook]

Agreed. I think Green was definitely one of the beneficiaries of the Beautiful Game offense. With players moving and the ball kicking in and out and all around, defenses were bound to lose sight of him. Now he posts up outside the arc while Kawhi, Aldridge, or Pau go to work and waits for the kickout. Teams have to choose whether they will leave him to bring help, and I would imagine most teams will elect to bring help from other spots.

Indeed, Danny's gravity was the highest on the team a couple of years ago, and I think it will get up there again if his shooting hold up. Him passing to LMA delays the weakside help significantly. Coaches still seem to get pissed any time Danny hits an open three. He's definitely in the game-plan.


I'd be interested to see how Danny's offense and three-point production fare with the bench unit (who still run more motion) vs. the starting lineup.

Well that's why I loved Pop staggering Green and Kawhi in this most recent game. One was on the court for most of the second half. Doing that and having Simmons and Manu fill in as necessary may be how Pop ends up handling the rotation.

[100%duncan]

Post # 6

I feel like he's taken a couple of moderately contested threes this season and hit them, which is really encouraging for his long-term prognosis. I think if the Spurs don't prioritize getting him the ball, he's not going to get looks. First, the book is out on Danny, so teams aren't going to leave him hope and second, Kawhi will never have Parker's gravity.

The latter case the Spurs have tried to remedy by having Danny be the entry-passer. It didn't work last year, but it's working well enough this year. If Danny is comfortable taking contested threes and hits them at a decent rate, that will help him and LMA a ton.

The former case will only be resolved with plays and actions that give him the ball. The plays are rare but have been working when they get to happen (except the corner Hammer, which has been well-scouted). The actions have been getting him open, but it's not ingrained in the offense to look for him at certain points. He's still being treated mostly as a bailout man or a way to exploit weak defense. There's no "Well at this point in this play, you know so and so is going to make a cut which will leave Danny open about half the time, so look for him then." contingency in their offense.

Post 9 in reaction to the bolded part of post # 6

I dont know. Kawhi commands 4 players at times when he goes in the paint, you may have meant to say he doesnt have the same playmaking skills that TP does. I agree though with your previous post, Danny needs more looks. Takeaway those turnaround fadeaways from LMA and forced shots from Kawhi and give it to Danny instead.

Can you even backread or are you being purposely obtuse? :lol

[100%duncan]

Ahh, SpursTalk....where a Danny Green thread can turn into a Parker vs. Kawhi debate.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/George-Costanza-Eating-Popcorn.gif

Please backread :lol my first post was about Danny, my second post was me reacting to a wrong point chinook made. But oh no, he can never be wrong nor accept his mistakes. But hey it's my fault for turning this into a player vs player thread by pointing out a mistake. :tu

[dabom]

Please backread :lol my first post was about Danny, my second post was me reacting to a wrong point chinook made. But oh no, he can never be wrong nor accept his mistakes. But hey it's my fault for turning this into a player vs player thread by pointing out a mistake. :tu

I was roasting Chinook yesterday until the mods spoiled it. The guy is never straightforward . :lol

[Chinook]

Post # 6


Post 9 in reaction to the bolded part of post # 6


Can you even backread or are you being purposely obtuse? :lol

But that's not what gravity is. It's not about how many guys you attract in the paint. Your critique was irrelevant. I guess, though that you've been trying to harp on it every post for some reason.

It would be like if I said, "Kawhi can't get into the paint like Tony could" and you said, "Haven't you seen his post-up numbers?" The Spurs routinely have three or even four players collapse in the paint. Kawhi's block on Amir Johnson, I think, is a great example of that. That had nothing to do with Johnson having high gravity. However, Pop calling a time-out every time someone failed to close-out on Curry IS a sign of gravity.

[dabom]

Post # 6


Post 9 in reaction to the bolded part of post # 6


Can you even backread or are you being purposely obtuse? :lol

:lmao

[100%duncan]

But that's not what gravity is. It's not about how many guys you attract in the paint. Your critique was irrelevant. I guess, though that you've been trying to harp on it every post for some reason.

It would be like if I said, "Kawhi can't get into the paint like Tony could" and you said, "Haven't you seen his post-up numbers?" The Spurs routinely have three or even four players collapse in the paint. Kawhi's block on Amir Johnson, I think, is a great example of that. That had nothing to do with Johnson having high gravity. However, Pop calling a time-out every time someone failed to close-out on Curry IS a sign of gravity.

Okay, coach.

[dabom]

He still hasn't answered the question. :lol

[Chinook]

Okay, coach.

So here are a couple of articles on gravity:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/11744634/explaining-gravity-basketball

http://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2015/1/1/respect-or-the-value-of-gravity-in-the-nba

I'm posting these in good faith, even though they somewhat contradict that I was saying. The first article suggests that there is an on-ball gravity that is measured by players' ability to drive. That is something that you can use to suggest Leonard has better gravity than Parker, though that same article uses Tony as an archetype for this type. The second article suggests that bigs have the most gravity since they're near the paint. And that's true in my mind for a guy like Deandre Jordan. But I wouldn't say that about a guy like LMA who isn't a put-back specialist.

When I'm talking about gravity, I'm mainly talking about how a player's movement or lack there of affects defensive assignments. Parker's gravity on PnR wasn't tremendous in my mind. His gravity in the Zipper Series was huge, and I don't think there's an offense that will be able to leverage Kawhi's skills enough to get him there. Even Durant inside the paint doesn't have great gravity.

Tony being a HoFer really does mean something. It's unlikely that Kawhi will be better than Parker in everything. It would be like arguing any comparison between Robinson and Duncan that favors David. Kawhi not being able to synergize with an offense like Tony could isn't a strike against his legacy.

[dabom]

Again you didn't answer it. Can we get a quantitative measurement? No you stupid fuck. Everything you say is superfluous. :lmao

[HarlemHeat37]

Not going to read the entire thread(:lol), but I don't think the aesthetics of the offense are a knock on Kawhi as an individual..

Just based on position, it would be very difficult to build the same type of offense around Kawhi..he has improved dramatically as a ball-handler and playmaker, but he's never going to have the same effect as a guard, in that regard, it just isn't natural..

In terms of playmaking, I think his ceiling will probably be Paul Pierce, who had a similar career arc, in that regard..even Pierce needed other offensive anchors(KG) and capable playmakers(Allen) to run a high-level offense, though..

Unfortunately, the Spurs' demise will be their lack of reliable guard options IMO..

[dabom]

Not going to read the entire thread(:lol), but I don't think the aesthetics of the offense are a knock on Kawhi as an individual..

Just based on position, it would be very difficult to build the same type of offense around Kawhi..he has improved dramatically as a ball-handler and playmaker, but he's never going to have the same effect as a guard, in that regard, it just isn't natural..

In terms of playmaking, I think his ceiling will probably be Paul Pierce, who had a similar career arc, in that regard..even Pierce needed other offensive anchors(KG) and capable playmakers(Allen) to run a high-level offense, though..

Unfortunately, the Spurs' demise will be their lack of reliable guard options IMO..

We're talking about gravity though. I can break down all the games where kawhi draws a double or triple on almost every drive or pnr. This team doesn't have 2 play makers. It has one. You can't blame kawhi for lack of packaging either when he already delivers more than anyone. I don't know why people dog him on his play making when he needs to score for the team to do well. The role players are just gonna miss shots in the playoffs.

[dabom]

Instead we need to ask mental midget icy hot to stop missing his wide open shots in the playoffs. It be great if he could produce on all the games in the playoffs instead of showing up for one or two.


And lol at people actually thinking fathead was the xfactor iso scorer in a Spurs warriors 7 game series. :lmao

[NameLess Scrub]

So here are a couple of articles on gravity:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/11744634/explaining-gravity-basketball

http://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2015/1/1/respect-or-the-value-of-gravity-in-the-nba

I'm posting these in good faith, even though they somewhat contradict that I was saying. The first article suggests that there is an on-ball gravity that is measured by players' ability to drive. That is something that you can use to suggest Leonard has better gravity than Parker, though that same article uses Tony as an archetype for this type. The second article suggests that bigs have the most gravity since they're near the paint. And that's true in my mind for a guy like Deandre Jordan. But I wouldn't say that about a guy like LMA who isn't a put-back specialist.

When I'm talking about gravity, I'm mainly talking about how a player's movement or lack there of affects defensive assignments. Parker's gravity on PnR wasn't tremendous in my mind. His gravity in the Zipper Series was huge, and I don't think there's an offense that will be able to leverage Kawhi's skills enough to get him there. Even Durant inside the paint doesn't have great gravity.

Tony being a HoFer really does mean something. It's unlikely that Kawhi will be better than Parker in everything. It would be like arguing any comparison between Robinson and Duncan that favors David. Kawhi not being able to synergize with an offense like Tony could isn't a strike against his legacy.

Dude you must be exhausted. Right or wrong, you're trying to conduct a basketball discussion while a couple of posters act defensively about Kawhi.

[dabom]

I've never seen this beta bitch before. :lol

[Chinook]

Dude you must be exhausted. Right or wrong, you're trying to conduct a basketball discussion while a couple of posters act defensively about Kawhi.

Eh, work's slow, and 100%'s a good dude. There are also a lot of posts that are on ignore, so I don't even know what they say.

[NameLess Scrub]

Eh, work's slow, and 100%'s a good dude. There are also a lot of posts that are on ignore, so I don't even know what they say.

Well that sounds better. This friggin board does help those days :lol

[TD 21]

Not going to read the entire thread(:lol), but I don't think the aesthetics of the offense are a knock on Kawhi as an individual..

Just based on position, it would be very difficult to build the same type of offense around Kawhi..he has improved dramatically as a ball-handler and playmaker, but he's never going to have the same effect as a guard, in that regard, it just isn't natural..

Let me guess, they're a knock on Aldridge (who arrived a season after the aesthetics started to decline)?

What about Bird, Pippen, Hill, McGrady, James, Antetokounmpo?

[MaNu4Tres]

Its as simple as this.

Parker & Manu had the foot speed, quickness in change of direction and acceleration that enabled them to create significant separation from their man in ISOs or in PnRs. They'd be able to draw in the weakside D a lot quicker, which opened up wider passing lanes and off ball opportunities for their teammates

Kawhi doesn't have the same foot speed, quickness, or acceleration. The times he does turn the corner on PnRs his guy is usually on his hip as Kawhi physically fights his way around the corner. He doesn't have the vision either as sometimes the strong on ball D makes him reverse his dribble right into congested areas of the court where one weakside defender can essentially defend two guys ( Kawhi and his man) at the same time.

Kawhi doesn't have the same quickness, foot speed, acceleration or vision to be as effective in breaking down a defense like Parker and Manu did in their prime.

Sure Kawhi can still be effective in PnR situations with his scoring because of his elite length/strength using his body to get off mid-range pull ups and using his body to get off shots in the paint, but he will likely never be able to break down defenses like Parker and Manu did in their prime.


Hopefully some picked up more on this after watching tonight.

Kawhi was a mess.

[Chinook]

Hopefully some picked up more on this after watching tonight.

Kawhi was a mess.

Pop definitely can't expect a great offense built around him. It almost has to be built separately and just have Kawhi segments like episodes of I Am Weasel in the Cow and Chicken series. It's not that Kawhi can't play his game, but the offense can't just be him and LMA taking turns taking shots that would be bad if the average player were taking them and then having Pau come in and do something similar.

[dabom]

I bet ya faggots weren't crying after the first game. :lmao

[YGWHI]

Hopefully some picked up more on this after watching tonight.

Kawhi was a mess.

In this game? Sure.

But Kawhi was driving strong and drawing fouls most games.
He's averaging more FTAs than Parker in his best scoring season, that should be enough for any forward.

Anyway, I'd like to see more of these plays insted of Kawhi being forced to play an unnatural game for him.
803788597165981696

803804510149865472

[YGWHI]

Hopefully some picked up more on this after watching tonight.

Kawhi was a mess.

Like I've said before, better pray that Kawhi can give us more of good games than bad.

Because the Spurs have ZERO options there. Who can score 'consistently' on this team not named Kawhi-LMA? Gasol? Maybe, maybe not.

Parker 0-6? Danny 1-4? Lee 0-4? Old Manu? We have just Patty, Simms on the bench and Kawhi/LMA in the starting lineup.

We can move the ball for open shots but if we'll rely on Manu/Parker to take the shots we won't win many games.

That was part of the issue in OKC series, the Spurs missed more open shots than contested...You know why it happened.