Play Spurs GM Before Trade Deadline

[BatManu20]

Spurs value draft picks. I'd be shocked if they traded theirs, even if for a later one. Would have to be a sweet pot.

[tonight...you]

Spurs value draft picks. I'd be shocked if they traded theirs, even if for a later one. Would have to be a sweet pot.

Lol... hey dabom, who here was smoking lots of pots?
That was funny as hell...

[CGD]

Was going to suggest that Philly could toss in another 2nd, but was shocked that they ONLY had one this year!

I'm in favor of Holmes as bigman insurance in case DD/Lee get offers too rich. Not really a talent drop off btwn Kyle/Holmes, and dropping 5 slots doesn't seem like its that big a lift.

[tonight...you]

Was going to suggest that Philly could toss in another 2nd, but was shocked that they ONLY had one this year!

I'm in favor of Holmes as bigman insurance in case DD/Lee get offers too rich. Not really a talent drop off btwn Kyle/Holmes, and dropping 5 slots doesn't seem like its that big a lift.

I firmly believe Lee is going to be here and on the cheap for a hot minute.
He just loves it here and his role is significant enough for him.

[SAGirl]

I'd say no. The Spurs shouldn't pay to get another big, especially with Manu and Mills leaving.
Good point. Their current weakness is guard play and that will still be the same next season. Maybe worse... consider what happens if Manu retires and Spury reup Simmons.... nooooooo :td
The voice of reason

[CGD]

I firmly believe Lee is going to be here and on the cheap for a hot minute.
He just loves it here and his role is significant enough for him.

I hope you're right about Lee. He's been such a joy to watch.

I still can't get a sense of what he market for DD will be. Is he worth over or under 48m/4y?

[dabom]

Lol... hey dabom (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=47543), who here was smoking lots of pots?
That was funny as hell...

I forgot brah. :lol

[tonight...you]

I hope you're right about Lee. He's been such a joy to watch.

I still can't get a sense of what he market for DD will be. Is he worth over or under 48m/4y?

I can see a few teams throwing some serious loot at him.
Spurs might have to open the check book for him and while I really like him, I just don't know...

I actually wouldn't wince too hard at that deal, but damn... this new CBA shit...
I value Bertans and his upcoming contract after next year more than Dedmon, but he's 1st in line...

[CGD]

I can see a few teams throwing some serious loot at him.
Spurs might have to open the check book for him and while I really like him, I just don't know...

I actually wouldn't wince too hard at that deal, but damn... this new CBA shit...
I value Bertans and his upcoming contract after next year more than Dedmon, but he's 1st in line...

Yeah, that's where I'm at.

[tonight...you]

I forgot brah. :lol
Shit...
I'm still laughing at that.
He smoked lots of pots... LOL.

[SAGirl]

I can see a few teams throwing some serious loot at him.
Spurs might have to open the check book for him and while I really like him, I just don't know...

I actually wouldn't wince too hard at that deal, but damn... this new CBA shit...
I value Bertans and his upcoming contract after next year more than Dedmon, but he's 1st in line...
I doubt Spurs will overpay for a role player. And it's too much to ask for Dedmon or anybody to leave $ on the table, specially Dedmon who is 28 and b4 this season wasn't a rotation big. He needs his next contract to set his life up for the future (same for Simmons but that's a different subject).

[mo7888]

Not a bad deal man, though the only way Chicago takes that is if they get the Nets pick tbh.

They'd definitely have to give them the Nets pick and probably a future pick as well. The part about us getting Avery is only realistic if Chicago is full rebuild and doesn't want the 2 years on his contract and Avery needs to go somewhere to make the numbers work. It's about the only kind of trade that we could make in the regular season....just trying to be opportunistic on the back of others trying to move their pieces around.

[TheGreatYacht]

Kyle for R. Holmes + swap Spurs 2017 first for philly's highest 2017 2nd (currently 34).

Get a cost controlled big prospect and insurance in case Dedmon and/or Lee leave. Give Kyle a chance to reboot his career on a new team.
I would do it. Holmes is filled with potential, unlike Fathead.

Holmes is also on a 3yr/3M contract :wow so if Dedmon (28) gets Mozgov money elsewhere then we have a guy ready to take his spot. You can't get a young big like that just anywhere, where as the Fathead types are all over the D-League...

[TheGreatYacht]

They'd definitely have to give them the Nets pick and probably a future pick as well. The part about us getting Avery is only realistic if Chicago is full rebuild and doesn't want the 2 years on his contract and Avery needs to go somewhere to make the numbers work. It's about the only kind of trade that we could make in the regular season....just trying to be opportunistic on the back of others trying to move their pieces around.
Good trade idea tbh. If there's a shooting guard that can defend AND at least dribble, then the Spurs have to start him.

[DPG21920]

I wonder if DEN would be willing to trade Will Barton. He can shoot, has solid bounce and can actually get into the paint a little.

[DPG21920]

The more I think of it and look at it, I'm all in on Barton. DEN has Harris & Jamal Murray now. This would free up time for Murray and they already play Harris more than him.

His contract is very easy to trade for, he can shoot the 3 (although he's streaky) but he can actually dish decently well. It would add the dimension SA needs help with most while not breaking the bank.

[apalisoc_9]

The more I think of it and look at it, I'm all in on Barton. DEN has Harris & Jamal Murray now. This would free up time for Murray and they already play Harris more than him.

His contract is very easy to trade for, he can shoot the 3 (although he's streaky) but he can actually dish decently well. It would add the dimension SA needs help with most while not breaking the bank.

They're not going to give up Barton for whatever the spurs have right now. Even if Chandlers gets traded and Gallo signs elsewhere after the season ( living a need in the wing) that won't be enough to convince them to trade Barton for simmons and anderson ( only guys that fit their needs)

[dabom]

Can we trade porker...

[TheGreatYacht]

https://j.gifs.com/kRnmNJ.gif
Richaun Holmes
Per-36: 15.4pts, 9.7reb, 1.9ast, 1.3stl, 1.7blk, 56.7TS%





https://i.imgbox.com/kTjE6Omo.gif
Kyle Anderson
Per-36: 7.6pts, 6.9reb, 3.0ast, 1.9stl, 1.1blk, 52.4TS%

[DPG21920]

They're not going to give up Barton for whatever the spurs have right now. Even if Chandlers gets traded and Gallo signs elsewhere after the season ( living a need in the wing) that won't be enough to convince them to trade Barton for simmons and anderson ( only guys that fit their needs)

I don't think he's a big part of their plans now or in the future. They obviously favor Harris (as soon as Harris is healthy Barton's minutes go down). They really like Murray to and have him running point and clearly are trying to get him minutes at all G positions.

The fact that they are in the playoff hunt (8th seed right now) probably means they don't make a move, but I think it's reasonable that if they drop some games in the next few weeks it might crack the door.

I think they woul have interest in someone like Kyle (young, solid prospect can help if Gallo/Faried get moved/leave). It might take a first rounder (which I would not do). If SA is trying to win now, would be trading the 29th pick for Barton be worth it?

[Chinook]

I don't think he's a big part of their plans now or in the future. They obviously favor Harris (as soon as Harris is healthy Barton's minutes go down). They really like Murray to and have him running point and clearly are trying to get him minutes at all G positions.

The fact that they are in the playoff hunt (8th seed right now) probably means they don't make a move, but I think it's reasonable that if they drop some games in the next few weeks it might crack the door.

I think they woul have interest in someone like Kyle (young, solid prospect can help if Gallo/Faried get moved/leave). It might take a first rounder (which I would not do). If SA is trying to win now, would be trading the 29th pick for Barton be worth it?

The Nuggets don't need middling picks when they have plenty of young talent. I think it would take at least Bertans, and probably Simmons and Anderson to match salaries. That's way too much to pay. Maybe shunting Patty to a team like Philly and adding whatever that nets to some asset could get Barton as well, but if Will isn't between Manu and Patty, there's no point in making any deal.

Personally, I think people should limit their searches to people making less than $2.7 Million this season. That's what the Spurs can take back by moving Anderson and Forbes, and that seems like the most the team should give up during this season.

[DPG21920]

The Nuggets don't need middling picks when they have plenty of young talent. I think it would take at least Bertans, and probably Simmons and Anderson to match salaries. That's way too much to pay. Maybe shunting Patty to a team like Philly and adding whatever that nets to some asset could get Barton as well, but if Will isn't between Manu and Patty, there's no point in making any deal.

Personally, I think people should limit their searches to people making less than $2.7 Million this season. That's what the Spurs can take back by moving Anderson and Forbes, and that seems like the most the team should give up during this season.

I would move Mills for Barton. Barton is a better play maker IMO and fills a bigger need with his style of play and has an extra year on his deal vs Mills.

[Robz4000]

I don't think he's a big part of their plans now or in the future. They obviously favor Harris (as soon as Harris is healthy Barton's minutes go down). They really like Murray to and have him running point and clearly are trying to get him minutes at all G positions.

The fact that they are in the playoff hunt (8th seed right now) probably means they don't make a move, but I think it's reasonable that if they drop some games in the next few weeks it might crack the door.

I think they woul have interest in someone like Kyle (young, solid prospect can help if Gallo/Faried get moved/leave). It might take a first rounder (which I would not do). If SA is trying to win now, would be trading the 29th pick for Barton be worth it?

I'd trade a first for Barton in a heartbeat.

[Chinook]

I would move Mills for Barton. Barton is a better play maker IMO and fills a bigger need with his style of play and has an extra year on his deal vs Mills.

You trade for Barton, you still need someone to be Patty. Murray wouldn't do well as the third or fourth ball-handler on the floor.

[DPG21920]

You trade for Barton, you still need someone to be Patty. Murray wouldn't do well as the third or fourth ball-handler on the floor.

Why can't Barton be the back up SG like Mills is now? While he's not nearly as proven as Mills as a 3PT shooter he's shown he can hit it enough. Then instead of a guy like Mills that only spots up, you have a guy that can now also drive and finish/create.

[dabom]

Patty just don't spot up you stupid cuck. :lmao

[Chinook]

Why can't Barton be the back up SG like Mills is now? While he's not nearly as proven as Mills as a 3PT shooter he's shown he can hit it enough. Then instead of a guy like Mills that only spots up, you have a guy that can now also drive and finish/create.

Because the Spurs already have two guys off the bench who do that. They don't need a third, and indeed, I think it would hurt them to try. Barton is really a better Simmons. He's not a PG, and neither is Manu. Maybe they could swing a Simmons for Canaan trade.

[DPG21920]

Because the Spurs already have two guys off the bench who do that. They don't need a third, and indeed, I think it would hurt them to try. Barton is really a better Simmons. He's not a PG, and neither is Manu. Maybe they could swing a Simmons for Canaan trade.

So you value Mill's shooting more than having another (better) Simmons in Mills current role?

[TheGreatYacht]

Why can't Barton be the back up SG like Mills is now? While he's not nearly as proven as Mills as a 3PT shooter he's shown he can hit it enough. Then instead of a guy like Mills that only spots up, you have a guy that can now also drive and finish/create.
Paddy can spot up and create shots using a pick....... for himself

[Chinook]

So you value Mill's shooting more than having another (better) Simmons in Mills current role?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Patty+Mills&player_id1_select=Patty+Mills&player_id1=millspa02&y1=2017&hint=Will+Barton&player_id2_select=Will+Barton&y2=2017&player_id2=bartowi01

I don't think it's even obvious that Barton does the other things better than Mills. But yes, the bench needs shooters, so I don't want to add another guy who wants to drive instead. The Spurs have plenty of those types, especially the ones who aren't good enough at it to be second options.

[MaNu4Tres]

You trade for Barton, you still need someone to be Patty. Murray wouldn't do well as the third or fourth ball-handler on the floor.

I thought Murray actually has done well as the off ball/3rd banana when he has started with Kawhi and LA.


Yes, he's best with the ball in his hands, but he's also been very effective in his catch and shoot or catch and drive opportunities off the ball (he's versatile-- unlike Gary Neal, Patty Mills, Eddie House, Steve Kerr, ect) . Him as a secondary facilitator against a moving defense (when they are rotating or closing out off from the initial action developed from Kawhi/LA) actually has been effective thus far. His first step is so quick he gets in the paint with ease off the catch. Him attacking a moving defense actually enhances his effectiveness with the ball.

[MaNu4Tres]

So you value Mill's shooting more than having another (better) Simmons in Mills current role?

They value Mills' shooting so much that they not only want the Spurs to give him 44-50 million, but they want to impede Murrays growth by playing him at a position where his effectiveness or ceiling is lower.

Fuck economics, lets spend 50 million at a position they don't need to spend it on. 50 million on a 15 minute role instead of utilizing that money more efficiently in other areas -- like competent GMs usually do.

[Chinook]

They value Mills' shooting so much, that they not only want the Spurs to give him 44-50 million but they want to impede Murrays growth by playing him at a position where his effectiveness or ceiling is lower.

What you call Murray's position is irrelevant. He'll play with the best bench guard the Spurs have, as should any player. He's extremely likely to play next to a guy as big or smaller than him. If you want to call him a PG and Mills the SG, I don't care. It won't change his role any more than playing next to 6-3 Williams or Forbes would.

[DPG21920]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Patty+Mills&player_id1_select=Patty+Mills&player_id1=millspa02&y1=2017&hint=Will+Barton&player_id2_select=Will+Barton&y2=2017&player_id2=bartowi01

I don't think it's even obvious that Barton does the other things better than Mills. But yes, the bench needs shooters, so I don't want to add another guy who wants to drive instead. The Spurs have plenty of those types, especially the ones who aren't good enough at it to be second options.

While their numbers look similar, if you watch them play, it's pretty clear to me at least that how Barton gets his assists vs how Mills gets his assists are really different. I think Barton is a better creator.

If you aren't confident in his 3 (I am, not as much as Mills, but enough) I can see it. But I think that if you believe he can be a solid enough shooter, that getting someone who has the ability to get into the paint and create, that has some length and athleticism and that can pitch in a little more on the boards is enough for me.

Plus, you get Barton on a cheap deal for one more year which is a big plus to me.

[MaNu4Tres]

What you call Murray's position is irrelevant. He'll play with the best bench guard the Spurs have, as should any player. He's extremely likely to play next to a guy as big or smaller than him. If you want to call him a PG and Mills the SG, I don't care. It won't change his role any more than playing next to 6-3 Williams or Forbes would.

Nah because with Patty, Murray defends SGs. His size/length advantage, defensive ceiling and value (on the defensive end) disappears in this situation. Which, in turn, lowers his ceiling and at the same time, lowers the Spurs' ceiling or overall effectiveness.

I'm with DPG. Murray/ Barton is much more enticing than Mills/Murray. I look at both ends, not just one aspect of the game -- such as shooting.

[apalisoc_9]

Barton is pretty underrated here, he's basically a rich man Simmons. Barton does the things simmons does but at a higher level.

That being said, it's not even about Den leaning towards moving on from Barton. It's the fact that Denver will get better offers somehwere else.

Barton was a top 5 bench player last year.

Denver is a dumb team, so who knows but its very unlikely.

A logical approach is to just wait the season to end. Don't sign Mills, Have murray take all his minutes, don't sign Simmons for anything over 3/year

The spurs needs to be a position where they can sign match whatever offer Bertans and dedmon gets and still have room for another two years from now.

The money they get from letting Mills and Simmons walk can be signed for shooter. Bertans is more than tlready play as the bench gunner anyway..so that leaves mills as the odd man out.

[Chinook]

While their numbers look similar, if you watch them play, it's pretty clear to me at least that how Barton gets his assists vs how Mills gets his assists are really different. I think Barton is a better creator.

If you aren't confident in his 3 (I am, not as much as Mills, but enough) I can see it. But I think that if you believe he can be a solid enough shooter, that getting someone who has the ability to get into the paint and create, that has some Lenten and athleticism and that can pitch in a little more on the boards is enough for me.

Plus, you get Barton on a cheap deal for one more year which is a big plus to me.

Barton is a just a much better Simmons: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Will+Barton&player_id1_select=Will+Barton&player_id1=bartowi01&y1=2017&hint=Jonathon+Simmons&player_id2_select=Jonathon+Simmons&y2=2017&player_id2=simmojo02

Mills is a much more dynamic shooter, and that's extremely needed on a team that has four wings and a PG who like the ball in their hands. If you look at the important skills, you see Mills is much better than Barton. If you want someone to dribble-drive, take out one of the dribble-drivers. The team is already having to face that they need Bertans to play for spacing issues. It would just be worse with Barton. Not a driving lane in sight.

I like the extra cheap year. But I would be willing to let Mills walk or hang in the wind for a bit over having Barton's contract guaranteed if I really cared about money.

[Ice009]

While their numbers look similar, if you watch them play, it's pretty clear to me at least that how Barton gets his assists vs how Mills gets his assists are really different. I think Barton is a better creator.

If you aren't confident in his 3 (I am, not as much as Mills, but enough) I can see it. But I think that if you believe he can be a solid enough shooter, that getting someone who has the ability to get into the paint and create, that has some length and athleticism and that can pitch in a little more on the boards is enough for me.

Plus, you get Barton on a cheap deal for one more year which is a big plus to me.

Yeah, I'm pretty interested in getting Barton. I like his overall skill set better than Mills just being a better 3 point shooter. How much is he making? More importantly, how is Barton's defense?

[Chinook]

Barton is pretty underrated here, he's basically a rich man Simmons. Barton does the things simmons does but at a higher level.

That being said, it's not even about Den leaning towards moving on from Barton. It's the fact that Denver will get better offers somehwere else.

Barton was a top 5 bench player last year.

Denver is a dumb team, so who knows but its very likely.

A logical approach is to just wait the season to end. Don't sign Mills, Have murray take all his minutes, don't sign Simmons for anything over 3/year

The spurs needs to be a position where they can sign match whatever offer Bertans and dedmon gets and still have room for another two years from now.

The money they get from letting Mills and Simmons walk can be signed for shooter. Bertans is more than tlready play as the bench gunner anyway..so that leaves mills as the odd man out.

Bertans signed a two-year deal. I don't know where the idea that it was a one-year came from. As far as I know, it was reported as two or three years the whole time.

Dedmon is a guy you try to keep but have to be willing to let walk. Just as with him, there are other guys out there. Withey will be a free agent again, for example.

[apalisoc_9]

I wouldn't trade the 29th pick for Barton though. I like Will Barton, but I want to put money on Murray as a ball handler and an off ball kinda guy. He's shown the ability to play off kawhi and Aldridge and still contribute significantly with his Drive Gravity.

Keep the Good and cheap players so San Antonio can afford an expensive star when Aldridge declines even more or signs elsewgere in 2018

[DPG21920]

Patty just don't spot up you stupid cuck. :lmao

Over 70% of Mills FG's are assisted. He really does spot up a lot. Or just runs off screens to get an open look of someone passing to him. It's not bad, it's just who he is.

Barton by contrast is only assisted on 47% of his FG.

[MaNu4Tres]

I wouldn't trade the 29th pick for Barton though. I like Will Barton, but I want to put money on Murray as a ball handler and an off ball kinda guy. He's shown the ability to play off kawhi and Aldridge and still contribute significantly with his Drive Gravity.

Keep the Good and cheap players so San Antonio can afford an expensive star when Aldridge declines even more or signs elsewgere in 2018

Barton can shoot too though. That's what people are missing here. Barton and Murray are both more versatile than Patty, not just on defensive ( which is obvious), but on offense as well.

[apalisoc_9]

Bertans signed a two-year deal. I don't know where the idea that it was a one-year came from. As far as I know, it was reported as two or three years the whole time.

Dedmon is a guy you try to keep but have to be willing to let walk. Just as with him, there are other guys out there. Withey will be a free agent again, for example.

I said two years from now. I didnt make a mistake about Bertans. My mistake was with Dedmon. I keep on thinking his second year is a team option.

[apalisoc_9]

Barton can shoot too though. That's what people are missing here. Barton and Murray are both more versatile than Patty, not just on defensive ( which is obvious), but on offense as well.

I know Bartoon can shoot but if the spurs do trade for him, he's more than likeey going to be a 15/year guy and he is going to get that much..You're basically trading a pick for 1 year and half of will Barton. I just don't think its worth it. Way too much risk involved.

I think the best thing to do right now is to compete with whaever they have right now and some cheap rookies. I can't imagine this team competing at all in 2018 without Another Star when Lamarcus signs elsewhere.

[Chinook]

Nah because with Patty, Murray defends SGs. His size/length advantage, defensive ceiling and value (on the defensive end) disappears in this situation. Which, in turn, lowers his ceiling and at the same time, lowers the Spurs' ceiling or overall effectiveness.

To be honest, none of that is true. Kawhi and Green are both great defender who do just fine playing against bigger guys. Tim guarded bigger guys plenty. Murray learning how to defend SGs just makes sense. He can always go back to "PG" (which he would do for a few minutes every game anyway) later. He's not going to be ruined because he had to learn to maximize his length against 6-4 two-guards rather than against 6-1 PGs. It just doesn't make sense to argue that.

More importantly, a Murray that knows how to defend bigger guys only raises the Spurs' defensive ceiling, since it allows them to switch more effectively. Murray being either good or bad depends completely on him, not who he checks during the few minutes he is with the bench guard. He's currently a horrible defender. Maybe cutting his teeth in match-ups where he doesn't have a huge size advantage is the best way to expedite his growth.

I don't think you're looking at either end, honestly. If you are, it's only in a very 2D way. Nothing is as simple as defense being based on height or offense being based on separating scoring from play-making.

[dabom]

Over 70% of Mills FG's are assisted. He really does spot up a lot. Or just runs off screens to get an open look of someone passing to him. It's not bad, it's just who he is.

Barton by contrast is only assisted on 47% of his FG.

Kinda like that old "Kawhi is a system player" stats. GTFOH with that shit. :lol

[Chinook]

I said two years from now. I didnt make a mistake about Bertans. My mistake was with Dedmon. I keep on thinking his second year is a team option.

Bertans will be Arenas-locked. So his salary shouldn't be a big deal.

[DPG21920]

Barton is shooting 38% from 3 - its respectable. It would be nice to have a better Simmons instead of having to rely on Manu/Mills in the 2nd unit IMO. Spurs were counting on Simmons to really develop as a play maker to offset Manu some and it just hasn't happened.

Mills can't fill that void.

[DPG21920]

Kinda like that old "Kawhi is a system player" stats. GTFOH with that shit. :lol

Get out of here with actual facts? All I did was post what actually is going on. It's not a knock on Mills.

[Chinook]

Barton is shooting 38% from 3 - its respectable. It would be nice to have a better Simmons instead of having to rely on Manu/Mills in the 2nd unit IMO. Spurs were counting on Simmons to really develop as a play maker to offset Manu some and it just hasn't happened.

Mills can't fill that void.

He can't. He can only do his job, which Barton can't do. Simmons can't either. Same with Manu. So now you have three guys trying to be Manu and no Millses.

[dabom]

Get out of here with actual facts? All I did was post what actually is going on. It's not a knock on Mills.

Then why does it matter? :lol

[DPG21920]

Then why does it matter? :lol

It matters because of what the Spurs need vs what our current players offer.

[MaNu4Tres]

To be honest, none of that is true. Kawhi and Green are both great defender who do just fine playing against bigger guys. Tim guarded bigger guys plenty. Murray learning how to defend SGs just makes sense. He can always go back to "PG" (which he would do for a few minutes every game anyway) later. He's not going to be ruined because he had to learn to maximize his length against 6-4 two-guards rather than against 6-1 PGs. It just doesn't make sense to argue that.

More importantly, a Murray that knows how to defend bigger guys only raises the Spurs' defensive ceiling, since it allows them to switch more effectively. Murray being either good or bad depends completely on him, not who he checks during the few minutes he is with the bench guard. He's currently a horrible defender. Maybe cutting his teeth in match-ups where he doesn't have a huge size advantage is the best way to expedite his growth.

I don't think you're looking at either end, honestly. If you are, it's only in a very 2D way. Nothing is as simple as defense being based on height or offense being based on separating scoring from play-making.

I disagree. Murray and the Spurs will be better if he defends the PGs in the league. His size, along with his agility/speed will cause opponents problems once he becomes more consistent with his discipline and IQ.

[dabom]

It matters because of what the Spurs need vs what our current players offer.

Spurs need a tested playoff/olympian performer.

[dabom]

Spurs ain't winning with a rookie. Maybe next year.

[DPG21920]

He can't. He can only do his job, which Barton can't do. Simmons can't either. Same with Manu. So now you have three guys trying to be Manu and no Millses.

I agree SA needs 3PT shooting and Mills does that well. But I guess my question is do you think 38% 3PT shooting is so detrimental vs Mills that the other benefits dont matter (I'm assuming that is exactly what you are saying).

[MaNu4Tres]

I know Bartoon can shoot but if the spurs do trade for him, he's more than likeey going to be a 15/year guy and he is going to get that much..You're basically trading a pick for 1 year and half of will Barton. I just don't think its worth it. Way too much risk involved.

I think the best thing to do right now is to compete with whaever they have right now and some cheap rookies. I can't imagine this team competing at all in 2018 without Another Star when Lamarcus signs elsewhere.

I agree with this 100%.

I just think Murray/Barton is a more valuable back court than Mills/Murray.

And I don't think Spurs will sign an All Star again in FA anytime soon. Those hoping for it are going to wind up disappointed. It's already a rarity as it is ( for the most part), and its going to be even harder for players to leave their teams with the new CBA.

[DPG21920]

Dont get me wrong - 100% would love to keep Mills and add Barton to that. It's not even close. Purely financially (not whether or not DEN would do it) Kyle/Simmons/Forbes does the trick financially so it can be done without Mills or Bertans.

[MaNu4Tres]

I agree SA needs 3PT shooting and Mills does that well. But I guess my question is do you think 38% 3PT shooting is so detrimental vs Mills that the other benefits dont matter (I'm assuming that is exactly what you are saying).

When's the last time Spurs haven't had a 38-40% shooter off the bench? I honestly can't remember a time in the past 20 years. Maybe 2001 -- Antonio Daniels/Charles Smith? Yet here we are worried about losing Mills' 40% shooting from 3. I'd be higher on the great guy and Aussie if he brought more to the table, but he doesn't.

[Chinook]

I agree SA needs 3PT shooting and Mills does that well. But I guess my question is do you think 38% 3PT shooting is so detrimental vs Mills that the other benefits dont matter (I'm assuming that is exactly what you are saying).

Barton is having a career year from three, and it sucks compared to Patty. Five percent is a huge difference both in result and how it affects a scouting report. Add in Mills' speed off the ball, quick release and gunner mentality, and you get a guy whose gravity opens things up more than driving.

[dabom]

Not gonna lie. Chinook stepping up his game. Most Improved Poster of the Year. :tu

[apalisoc_9]

The thing about Barton over Mills though is that Barton is suppose to make up for loss of Manu's ability to handle the ball and attack the basket while offering shooting.

Obviously not better than Mills..but it makes perfect sense.

Honestly, the lakers just took back Magic..maybe we can convince them with Kyle Anderson and Simmons now that hes part of the organization again :lol

[apalisoc_9]

I agree with this 100%.

I just think Murray/Barton is a more valuable back court than Mills/Murray.

And I don't think Spurs will sign an All Star again in FA anytime soon. Those hoping for it are going to wind up disappointed. It's already a rarity as it is ( for the most part), and its going to be even harder for players to leave their teams with the new CBA.

Sure but you give yourself an opportunity. If that fails, at least you got the second best potential scenario out of it and that's internal improvement.

The worst thing is always trying to sign for "decent" guys that can't significantly improve your current chances nor provide help in improving your rookies. That's always the worst.

[SAGirl]

The Nuggets don't need middling picks when they have plenty of young talent. I think it would take at least Bertans, and probably Simmons and Anderson to match salaries. That's way too much to pay. Maybe shunting Patty to a team like Philly and adding whatever that nets to some asset could get Barton as well, but if Will isn't between Manu and Patty, there's no point in making any deal.

Personally, I think people should limit their searches to people making less than $2.7 Million this season. That's what the Spurs can take back by moving Anderson and Forbes, and that seems like the most the team should give up during this season.
And I doubt they do it at all bc both guys are producing when called upon .... Forbes is producing the least, but then he's the 14-15th guy and Spurs have him as a project for eventualities. It's not that they are not picking up the phone about them, but more than that nobody is calling about just one or the other unless they want to unload upon you the equivalent of Austin Daye or some other really awful player Pop would not be able to play at all. He at least still plays Anderson and they are giving time to Forbes to develop. It could be worse than those two guys frankly....

And then despite the belief that if they aren't going to reup Patty it makes sense in the long run to trade him, he's a known Pop favorite and despite the microwave malfunctioning lately, he's still playing above his contract. Teams as good as the Spurs are seldom ship out rotation players, which Mills is...

In the end I always come back to them standing pat bc no trade for edge of the rotation players is going to make an impact and the guy you get back can be significantly worse.... not even a lateral move.

[SAGirl]

Barton is shooting 38% from 3 - its respectable. It would be nice to have a better Simmons instead of having to rely on Manu/Mills in the 2nd unit IMO. Spurs were counting on Simmons to really develop as a play maker to offset Manu some and it just hasn't happened.

Mills can't fill that void.
I would argue several games they lost Simmons was really bad. It could be that selling him while he has value would be better.
I don't see the Spurs reupping him (I could be wrong if of course, but he's not an irreplaceable guy at all... and not good enough that I would like him back personally)... They need him this season, but that's pretty much it. Like Baynes and role players of that nature they are due to get paid and it might not make sense to reup them. He's lately been seeing his minutes diminish too.

[SAGirl]

I agree SA needs 3PT shooting and Mills does that well. But I guess my question is do you think 38% 3PT shooting is so detrimental vs Mills that the other benefits dont matter (I'm assuming that is exactly what you are saying).
Seems like the guy you want to trade is Simmons. He simply becomes irrelevant with Barton on the floor on top of Manu.

[SpursIndonesia]

The more I think of it and look at it, I'm all in on Barton. DEN has Harris & Jamal Murray now. This would free up time for Murray and they already play Harris more than him.

His contract is very easy to trade for, he can shoot the 3 (although he's streaky) but he can actually dish decently well. It would add the dimension SA needs help with most while not breaking the bank.

I am in for this, not a bad candidate for Manu's replacement, from skills & on court capability perspectives.

[TheGreatYacht]

Seems like someone has a desperate "get rid of Simmons so my crush can play" agenda going on :lol

[daledondale]

Seems like someone has a desperate "get rid of Simmons so my crush can play" agenda going on :lolYep, and it's not only SAgirl.

[MaNu4Tres]

Barton is having a career year from three, and it sucks compared to Patty. Five percent is a huge difference both in result and how it affects a scouting report. Add in Mills' speed off the ball, quick release and gunner mentality, and you get a guy whose gravity opens things up more than driving.

Its actually 4% difference. Thats 4 more threes per 100 attempts. Thats not a big difference.

[Chinook]

Its actually 4% difference. Thats 4 more threes per 100 attempts. Thats not a big difference.

It's 4.8 percent. That's probably two brackets difference in terms of shooting ability. But that also ignores the greater pressure Patty puts on with his playing style than Barton does with his shooting. You'd think Patty were Bryn Forbes the way he's being talked about. But he's about as dynamic as a catch-and-shoot guy gets.

[apalisoc_9]

It's 4.8 percent. That's probably two brackets difference in terms of shooting ability. But that also ignores the greater pressure Patty puts on with his playing style than Barton does with his shooting. You'd think Patty were Bryn Forbes the way he's being talked about. But he's about as dynamic as a catch-and-shoot guy gets.

Barton offers two Gravity Dynamic though. That's Manutres point. I've said that Id rather the spurs not go for anyone less than a Star caliber player and just concentrate on cheap rookies.

Any team should be leaning towards a guy that shoots the three at 4% less in percentage but can also offer the ability to drive to the basket.

Barton is a skinny dude, but he's not going to be the liability Patty is on the defensive end either.

[Chinook]

Barton doesn't offer anymore off-ball gravity than Simmons does. At an unproven 38 percent, I'm sure good teams would rather let him shoot a mildly contested three rather than drive. So when Barton is shallow-cutting, I doubt other team is going, "Oh shit, we need to make sure we keep a body on this guy". Meanwhile, the ball always has gravity, whether Kawhi has it or Green. No one wants to let any opponent drive for an uncontested layup.

When Patty drives, he puts just as much pressure on the D as Barton does. They are pretty much equal in terms of their efficiency inside the arc, and Patty assists at a higher while and turns it over at an near-equal rate to Barton. The "other things" are much more equal than people are giving them credit for.

There isn't really a statistical argument to be made that Barton is a better or more useful player than Patty is. There damned sure isn't an argument that the Spurs need Barton more. It makes more sense to trade Green for Barton than it does to trade Patty for him.

[apalisoc_9]

Barton doesn't offer anymore off-ball gravity than Simmons does. At an unproven 38 percent, I'm sure good teams would rather let him shoot a mildly contested three rather than drive. So when Barton is shallow-cutting, I doubt other team is going, "Oh shit, we need to make sure we keep a body on this guy". Meanwhile, the ball always has gravity, whether Kawhi has it or Green. No one wants to let any opponent drive for an uncontested layup.

When Patty drives, he puts just as much pressure on the D as Barton does. They are pretty much equal in terms of their efficiency inside the arc, and Patty assists at a higher while and turns it over at an near-equal rate to Barton. The "other things" are much more equal than people are giving them credit for.

There isn't really a statistical argument to be made that Barton is a better or more useful player than Patty is. There damned sure isn't an argument that the Spurs need Barton more. It makes more sense to trade Green for Barton than it does to trade Patty for him.

Barton is def a more diverse offensive player. They rely on him to provide penetration.

Their roles arensignificantly different too as Barton is responsible for attacking the basket specially now that Jokic is the main guy.

Mills statistically will have better percentages upclose considering all his shots within the rim are wide open. No respects him enough on the drive to committ the wing defenders.

[dabom]

Barton ain't got shit on Patty. Just laying that out there. :lol

[Chinook]

Barton is def a more diverse offensive player. They rely on him to provide penetration.

But the Spurs wouldn't. They'd rely on him for shooting. Except he's at best decent at it. Evan Turner is a "more diverse" offensive player than Green (and people on here considered moving Danny for Evan a no-brainer as late as 2014), but it's obvious why it wouldn't have made sense to switch them.


Their roles arensignificantly different too as Barton is responsible for attacking the basket specially now that Jokic is the main guy.

That doesn't make sense. Jokic being the main guy would imply Barton doesn't have the ball as much, but if that's true, then they aren't dependent on Barton's ability to create. Of course, Jokic actually has little to do with what Will's doing, as they play plenty of minutes apart. Barton's having a career year in terms of AST%, but it would actually be a down year for Patty.

If their roles are different, it's that Barton doesn't pass as often or as well as Mills does. Can't see why that's beneficial.


Mills statistically will have better percentages upclose considering all his shots within the rim are wide open. No respects him enough on the drive to committ the wing defenders

That makes no sense. If Mills is able to finish at a high rate, and no one ever guards him because they don't respect him or whatever, the opponents are stupid. You guard the players who do well against you. You don't give a good finisher open lanes.

[dabom]

The guy has 70 minutes of playoff experience in one series 3 years ago and is a SG is somehow gonna replace a pg(Patty Mills who is a champion and known commodity) ....and that's not even learning the system part yet. :lol

[dabom]

Ya fucking dumb. :lmao

[dabom]

Any more of these stupid trade scenarios ya want me to shut down involving MVPatty? :lol

[SAGirl]

These are the latest trade rumors courtesy of Sports Illustrated:
• Magic Johnson stated his intention to “call the shots” in the Lakers front office going forward. (USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2017/02/10/magic-johnson-shot-caller-los-angeles-lakers/97732992/))
• Rival executives believe Kings owner Vivek Ranadive won’t sign off on trading DeMarcus Cousins and thinks he can keep him in Sacramento long-term. (HoopsHype (http://hoopshype.com/2017/02/09/nba-rumor-notebook-nuggets-could-make-big-move-lakers-may-trade-veterans-and-more/))
• Sixers GM Bryan Colangelo said on the radio Thursday that the team is receiving increased interest in Jahlil Okafor and Nerlens Noel. (Newark Star-Ledger (http://www.nj.com/sixers/index.ssf/2017/02/nba_trade_rumors_sixers_colangelo_says_interest_in .html))
• Other teams think the Lakers will attempt to deal veterans including Nick Young, Lou Williams, Luol Deng and Jose Calderon before the deadline. (HoopsHype (http://hoopshype.com/2017/02/09/nba-rumor-notebook-nuggets-could-make-big-move-lakers-may-trade-veterans-and-more/))
• The Heat have interest in dealing for free-agent-to-be Serge Ibaka of the Magic. (Miami Herald (http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article131653804.html))
• Aaron Gordon’s bone bruise in his right foot could keep him out of the dunk contest at All-Star weekend. (Orlando Sentinel (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-sp-orlando-magic-news-0210-story.html))
• Free agent Derrick Williams signed a 10-day contract with the Cleveland Cavaliers. (Shams Charania, The Vertical (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/829687614517166081))
• Carmelo Anthony may want to stay with the Knicks, despite ongoing criticism from Knicks president Phil Jackson. (Adrian Wojnarowski, The Vertical (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-phil-jacksons-public-actions-steeling-melos-resolve-to-stay-with-knicks-204859718.html))
• The Celtics are keeping their eye on Indiana Pacers All-Star forward Paul George. (Adrian Wojnarowski, The Vertical (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-phil-jacksons-public-actions-steeling-melos-resolve-to-stay-with-knicks-204859718.html))

http://www.si.com/nba/2017/02/10/nba-trade-rumors-latest-news-deals-contracts

[palangi]

You guys need to remember chinook last offseason said Danny Green was irreplaceable. He was the best 3&D player in the league. I wouldn't trust chinook evaluations on players.

Now Mills is irreplaceable.

[HarlemHeat37]

Wizards need to make a move for Lou Williams, tbh..they're 1 piece away from challenging Cleveland..

Nicholson + a 1st..

[palangi]

And I doubt they do it at all bc both guys are producing when called upon .... Forbes is producing the least, but then he's the 14-15th guy and Spurs have him as a project for eventualities. It's not that they are not picking up the phone about them, but more than that nobody is calling about just one or the other unless they want to unload upon you the equivalent of Austin Daye or some other really awful player Pop would not be able to play at all. He at least still plays Anderson and they are giving time to Forbes to develop. It could be worse than those two guys frankly....

And then despite the belief that if they aren't going to reup Patty it makes sense in the long run to trade him, he's a known Pop favorite and despite the microwave malfunctioning lately, he's still playing above his contract. Teams as good as the Spurs are seldom ship out rotation players, which Mills is...

In the end I always come back to them standing pat bc no trade for edge of the rotation players is going to make an impact and the guy you get back can be significantly worse.... not even a lateral move.
And it and it's always good to see chinook lap dog parroting him like always.

[Chinook]

Wizards need to make a move for Lou Williams, tbh..they're 1 piece away from challenging Cleveland..

Nicholson + a 1st..

I actually like Lou for them a lot. Isn't Nicholson on a dubious contract, though?

[HarlemHeat37]

I actually like Lou for them a lot. Isn't Nicholson on a dubious contract, though?

Ya, just checked, little money but long deal(4 years)..I'm sure LA would take a 1st and short-term deals to make the $ work, though, Williams doesn't really make sense for their team, at the moment(he's their best player, but they already have a redundant piece in Clarkson and they aren't trying to win games)..

[mo7888]

I actually like Lou for them a lot. Isn't Nicholson on a dubious contract, though?

3 more years at $6+/yr

[Chinook]

Ya, just checked, little money but long deal(4 years)..I'm sure LA would take a 1st and short-term deals to make the $ work, though, Williams doesn't really make sense for their team, at the moment(he's their best player, but they already have a redundant piece in Clarkson and they aren't trying to win games)..

Yeah, but they could probably get a better deal than that. Nicholson is being paid to be a rotation player, and his rate stats are fine. But the dude isn't seeing the court. I'd be nervous about taking him on if I were LA, especially with the stupid long-term deals they added in the off-season. Though he has stretch-four potential.


3 more years at $6+/yr

Thanks. That contract would be great if Dedmon were on it. But it would be bad if Kyle were on it. Nicholson is pretty much getting Anderson burn if not even less. If he can't actually crack a rotation, I think that's a bad deal.

[HarlemHeat37]

Yeah, but they could probably get a better deal than that. Nicholson is being paid to be a rotation player, and his rate stats are fine. But the dude isn't seeing the court. I'd be nervous about taking him on if I were LA, especially with the stupid long-term deals they added in the off-season. Though he has stretch-four potential.



Thanks. That contract would be great if Dedmon were on it. But it would be bad if Kyle were on it. Nicholson is pretty much getting Anderson burn if not even less. If he can't actually crack a rotation, I think that's a bad deal.

Ya, I wouldn't take Nicholson, after learning that he's on a long-term deal, but I'd still take the 1st and matching salaries..

I don't know how many teams are going to be in the market for Williams, this season, considering he isn't locked up, isn't that young and fills a specific niche..Washington is the perfect match, they have the worst bench in the NBA and are in win-now mode(can't take your title chances for granted)..

Wall
Beal
Porter
Morris
Gortat

Williams
Mahinmi

That's a legit contender in the East IMO..

[Chinook]

They might be able to entice LA with Tomas Satoransky, who's a decent prospect. Burke's contract should be enough ballast.

I think they'd still need a productive eighth man to really have a chance

[palangi]

What about looking into Ben mclemore and wily cauley-stein? Both players are out of favor in Sacramento and don't get much minutes. Wily could start next to Aldridge and mclemore can come off the bench. Be a sixth man for us.

I would use use dedmon in the trade. He is probably getting a big contract. And WCS is a bigger, younger, more athletic version. Pau and Lee would be a good random off the bench. Then bring Corey Jefferson up from the toros.

WCS and Mclemore

for

mills, Dedmon, Simmons, and a second round pick

Parker, Murray, Forbes
Green, Mclemore, Manu
Leonard, Anderson
Aldridge, Lee, Bertans
WCS, Pau, Jefferson

[Spurs9]

Honestly Boston and Wizards look really good in the east. Either team isn't that far away from challanging Cleveland. The east may be more interesting than the West this year.

[TheGreatYacht]

What about looking into Ben mclemore and wily cauley-stein? Both players are out of favor in Sacramento and don't get much minutes. Wily could start next to Aldridge and mclemore can come off the bench. Be a sixth man for us.

I would use use dedmon in the trade. He is probably getting a big contract. And WCS is a bigger, younger, more athletic version. Pau and Lee would be a good random off the bench. Then bring Corey Jefferson up from the toros.

WCS and Mclemore

for

mills, Dedmon, Simmons, and a second round pick

Parker, Murray, Forbes
Green, Mclemore, Manu
Leonard, Anderson
Aldridge, Lee, Bertans
WCS, Pau, Jefferson
Dedmon = WCS
Mills + Simmons > Bustlemore
plus a second??? Naaaa

IMO tbh

[ceperez]

aaron gordon and serge ibaka for aldridge and some other scrub.

[gambit1990]

trade parker.

[TD 21]

They value Mills' shooting so much that they not only want the Spurs to give him 44-50 million, but they want to impede Murrays growth by playing him at a position where his effectiveness or ceiling is lower.

Fuck economics, lets spend 50 million at a position they don't need to spend it on. 50 million on a 15 minute role instead of utilizing that money more efficiently in other areas -- like competent GMs usually do.

More ignorant assumptions and acting as if those who don't agree with them are retarded from Mr. Agree To Disagree . . .

- Though not unrealistic, $44-50M is a figure you've made it, as is the notion that they'd either match or he'd automatically take the highest bid

- 15 mpg is flat out made up. There's no reason to think he wouldn't continue on in the exact same role, as a 20+ mpg backup, who plays significantly more in games Parker doesn't play and occasionally closes close games, even when he does play

- In this economic climate, even if the figure you presume he'll get is true, that's not an astronomical number relative to role/value and if they need the flexibility at some point, they should have no trouble moving him, a la Splitter and Diaw

- Mills has virtually nothing to do with Murray's growth. Consider Mills the offense backup to Green and the defensive backup to Parker and Murray the defense backup to Green and the offensive backup to Parker

- Murray could be in line for 20+ mpg starting next season, if he's up to the task and despite flashes, there's no guarantee of that, nor is a top 2-4 team in a position to hand a significant role to anyone

I'm not guaranteeing he'll be re-signed, but there's no precedent for the Spurs losing a player as beloved and with as much built up equity as Mills. People thought they'd have serious difficult re-signing Splitter, Diaw and Mills and thought Green was as good as gone, yet they managed to keep every one of them.

[palangi]

More ignorant assumptions and acting as if those who don't agree with them are retarded from Mr. Agree To Disagree . . .

- Though not unrealistic, $44-50M is a figure you've made it, as is the notion that they'd either match or he'd automatically take the highest bid

- 15 mpg is flat out made up. There's no reason to think he wouldn't continue on in the exact same role, as a 20+ mpg backup, who plays significantly more in games Parker doesn't play and occasionally closes close games, even when he does play

- In this economic climate, even if the figure you presume he'll get is true, that's not an astronomical number relative to role/value and if they need the flexibility at some point, they should have no trouble moving him, a la Splitter and Diaw

- Mills has virtually nothing to do with Murray's growth. Consider Mills the offense backup to Green and the defensive backup to Parker and Murray the defense backup to Green and the offensive backup to Parker

- Murray could be in line for 20+ mpg starting next season, if he's up to the task and despite flashes, there's no guarantee of that, nor is a top 2-4 team in a position to hand a significant role to anyone

I'm not guaranteeing he'll be re-signed, but there's no precedent for the Spurs losing a player as beloved and with as much built up equity as Mills. People thought they'd have serious difficult re-signing Splitter, Diaw and Mills and thought Green was as good as gone, yet they managed to keep every one of them.

So much fail. ..

[Ice009]

These are the latest trade rumors courtesy of Sports Illustrated:
• Magic Johnson stated his intention to “call the shots” in the Lakers front office going forward. (USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2017/02/10/magic-johnson-shot-caller-los-angeles-lakers/97732992/))
• Rival executives believe Kings owner Vivek Ranadive won’t sign off on trading DeMarcus Cousins and thinks he can keep him in Sacramento long-term. (HoopsHype (http://hoopshype.com/2017/02/09/nba-rumor-notebook-nuggets-could-make-big-move-lakers-may-trade-veterans-and-more/))
• Sixers GM Bryan Colangelo said on the radio Thursday that the team is receiving increased interest in Jahlil Okafor and Nerlens Noel. (Newark Star-Ledger (http://www.nj.com/sixers/index.ssf/2017/02/nba_trade_rumors_sixers_colangelo_says_interest_in .html))
• Other teams think the Lakers will attempt to deal veterans including Nick Young, Lou Williams, Luol Deng and Jose Calderon before the deadline. (HoopsHype (http://hoopshype.com/2017/02/09/nba-rumor-notebook-nuggets-could-make-big-move-lakers-may-trade-veterans-and-more/))
• The Heat have interest in dealing for free-agent-to-be Serge Ibaka of the Magic. (Miami Herald (http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article131653804.html))
• Aaron Gordon’s bone bruise in his right foot could keep him out of the dunk contest at All-Star weekend. (Orlando Sentinel (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-sp-orlando-magic-news-0210-story.html))
• Free agent Derrick Williams signed a 10-day contract with the Cleveland Cavaliers. (Shams Charania, The Vertical (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/829687614517166081))
• Carmelo Anthony may want to stay with the Knicks, despite ongoing criticism from Knicks president Phil Jackson. (Adrian Wojnarowski, The Vertical (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-phil-jacksons-public-actions-steeling-melos-resolve-to-stay-with-knicks-204859718.html))
• The Celtics are keeping their eye on Indiana Pacers All-Star forward Paul George. (Adrian Wojnarowski, The Vertical (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-phil-jacksons-public-actions-steeling-melos-resolve-to-stay-with-knicks-204859718.html))

http://www.si.com/nba/2017/02/10/nba-trade-rumors-latest-news-deals-contracts

Does Paul George want out? I thought they've starting winning and have been playing better lately? And how did Cleveland sign Derrick Williams? I thought he played for the Heat?


Wizards need to make a move for Lou Williams, tbh..they're 1 piece away from challenging Cleveland..

Nicholson + a 1st..

They've been winning a lot of games. I haven't watched any of them, but I didn't realize they've playing that well. Is Scott Brooks a legit coach?

[HarlemHeat37]

Does Paul George want out? I thought they've starting winning and have been playing better lately? And how did Cleveland sign Derrick Williams? I thought he played for the Heat?



They've been winning a lot of games. I haven't watched any of them, but I didn't realize they've playing that well. Is Scott Brooks a legit coach?

The difference in coaching is that players love Scott Brooks(OKC's players loved him, too) and hated Whittman, according to people close to the Wizards..

Biggest difference is Beal staying healthy, Wall getting in shape and Porter becoming the best role player in the league, though..

[Ice009]

The difference in coaching is that players love Scott Brooks(OKC's players loved him, too) and hated Whittman, according to people close to the Wizards..

Biggest difference is Beal staying healthy, Wall getting in shape and Porter becoming the best role player in the league, though..

What's your opinion on Brooks as a coach, though? Do you still find him average. Most people used to say that the reason OKC never could get over the hump was because of Brooks' coaching.

[palangi]

Dedmon = WCS
Mills + Simmons > Bustlemore
plus a second??? Naaaa

IMO tbh
WCS is going to be cheaper. Under more control. And is better than Dedmon, and I'm a Dedmon fan.
mclemore again is younger and could flourish in an actual system. Moving Mills allows Murray to take over the second unit. And Forbes can develop into a bigger Mills clone.
and the second is giving up to get.

[Chinook]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1523443

[CGD]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1523443

Interesting. I like Sabonis and Holiday.

For it to move the needle for me, though, I would need assurances Holiday would re-sign, Abrines, OKC's first rounder this year, and/or a few 2nds to retool the Euro Stash pipeline.

Otherwise I think there would be a better deal out there for LMA.

[Emperor]

This is what I came up with but Pacers probably say no. Would be a shame since we'd get Paul George back finally :lol

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zc69wrf

[tbdog]

Probably say no?

[tbdog]

You guys need to remember chinook last offseason said Danny Green was irreplaceable. He was the best 3&D player in the league. I wouldn't trust chinook evaluations on players.

Now Mills is irreplaceable.

The thing is, Green shots is broken, and has been for 2 season. He isn't automatic from deep wide open anymore. I believe it was the Bucks loss cemented that fact for me. 2 wide open threes from the corner to secure the win. Bricks both, even though he was shooting the rock really well that game. Those shots were a given in 13 and 14.

Fuck it, trade him for Ellis and Miles.

[venitian navigator]

What about looking into Ben mclemore and wily cauley-stein? Both players are out of favor in Sacramento and don't get much minutes. Wily could start next to Aldridge and mclemore can come off the bench. Be a sixth man for us.

I would use use dedmon in the trade. He is probably getting a big contract. And WCS is a bigger, younger, more athletic version. Pau and Lee would be a good random off the bench. Then bring Corey Jefferson up from the toros.

WCS and Mclemore

for

mills, Dedmon, Simmons, and a second round pick

Parker, Murray, Forbes
Green, Mclemore, Manu
Leonard, Anderson
Aldridge, Lee, Bertans
WCS, Pau, Jefferson

I really like this trade. Both Cauley Stain and Maclemore are still on rookie contracts and so (being restricted free agents at the end of their rookie contracts) can both be re-signed if worth of it. Dedmon, Mills and Simmons are all ending their current contracts...and probably we are gonna lose at least two of them in any case this summer. I also agree that at this point we need to play Murray more 'cause the lack af a play making weapon is becoming more and more clear...
imho its a win win situation...maybe not for the present (the new guys need time to learn the system) but for the not so distant future.
For Sacramento the trade is good 'cause they need someone at the point guard that can give good minutes and do some of the Collison things (Mills) plus they replace the same position they are gonna trade us (reserve guard and reserve center) with two guys that are performing well enough to give them a spark for the play off race.
obviously, after the trade, we need to sign a third string point guard...

[DPG21920]

The thing is, Green shots is broken, and has been for 2 season. He isn't automatic from deep wide open anymore. I believe it was the Bucks loss cemented that fact for me. 2 wide open threes from the corner to secure the win. Bricks both, even though he was shooting the rock really well that game. Those shots were a given in 13 and 14.

Fuck it, trade him for Ellis and Miles.

Ugh, Danny's percentages say otherwise.

[gambit1990]

bulls willing to give up doug mcdermott for a first round pick. i'd make that happen asap.

[DPG21920]

bulls willing to give up doug mcdermott for a first round pick. i'd make that happen asap.

Ehh, he has not been very good. For a Spurs type first round pick? Maybe. He's supposed to be a shooter but he's struggled there and he's been clearly a net negative player.

I mean, it's not terrible but I don't see how helps this year. He's still very much an unproven project. Spurs need offense now and creators. He's neither.

[apalisoc_9]

The correct move for the spurs, imo..Is to wait out and let the season play out. Their trade should happen at the start of the season.

[mo7888]

bulls willing to give up doug mcdermott for a first round pick. i'd make that happen asap.

I'd offer a former 1st Rd pick instead....one that isn't that fleet of foot ...

[TheGreatYacht]

I'd offer a former 1st Rd pick instead....one that isn't that fleet of foot ...
Fathead or a white American?

https://media.tenor.co/images/1fc54206eea87ff348fbd313caaf7a40/raw

[SAGirl]

The correct move for the spurs, imo..Is to wait out and let the season play out. Their trade should happen at the start of the season.
I agree. They are just highly unlikely to move pieces that could net a significant contributor. Then guys like to bitch about players 10-15 in the rotation but they have obtained contributions from all of them when needed (Forbes is the most disputable. He has only had a single good game--against the Raptors--but he hardly dresses to play and as a prospect for the future in case they were to let Mills go he's fine.). I thought they could use help from an additional shooter but they are unlikely to get anyone better than Bertans anyways. If they want to solve things up with the guards they could work Dijon in a little. Pop has guys its on him what he does with them.

[mo7888]

Fathead or a white American?

https://media.tenor.co/images/1fc54206eea87ff348fbd313caaf7a40/raw

Either