Kawhi "Carmelo" Leonard is now the most clutch regular season player

[Kawhitstorm]

804900722131238912

[midnightpulp]

:tu

[SAGirl]

:claw

[All Mighty Janitor]

Tiny sample size alert......but fuck it

:claw

[GSH]

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

[Kawhitstorm]

Tiny sample size alert......but fuck it

:claw


Spurs forward Kawhi Leonard has now made 3 of his last 4 potential go-ahead shots in the final 10 seconds of the 4th quarter or overtime, including Friday against the Wizards. Leonard is 4-of-8 on those shots for his career. The NBA field-goal percentage on those shots over the last 5 seasons is 25%.

[itzsoweezee]

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

Well, it's on pop then. I guarantee that was the play that was drawn up.

[spursistan]

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

[Kawhitstorm]

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

He took the shot b/c he got what he wanted: a clean look at his sweet spot. Had he held the ball then he would have been taking a contested 20 footer w/ a defender draped all over him.

[99 Problems]

:claw This

[GSH]

He took the shot b/c he got what he wanted: a clean look at his sweet spot. Had he held the ball then he would have been taking a contested 20 footer w/ a defender draped all over him.


If he takes a shot at the buzzer, even if it's a contested 20-footer, the worst that could happen is OT. Road teams, especially weak road teams, look to go for the 3P to win - and Beal/Wall hadn't missed a 3-pointer between them. I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot.

It was a bad basketball decision to take that shot. The Spurs were fortunate.

[Kawhitstorm]

If he takes a shot at the buzzer, even if it's a contested 20-footer, the worst that could happen is OT. Road teams, especially weak road teams, look to go for the 3P to win - and Beal/Wall hadn't missed a 3-pointer between them. I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot.

It was a bad basketball decision to take that shot. The Spurs were fortunate.

DPOY was confident his team could get ONE stop which is why he took the best shot possible.

There is no telling what might happen in OT since it's a 5 minute period & Wall was getting into the paint at will.:wakeup

[Kawhitstorm]

Career clutch Stats (Finals 4 minutes + OT):

Carmelo: http://bkref.com/tiny/oq5B6

vs.

Kawhi: http://bkref.com/tiny/av4pb

[Hoops Czar]

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

The thread isn't titled "Kawhi "Carmelo" Leonard is the smartest regular season player."

[Hoops Czar]

Career clutch Stats (Finals 4 minutes + OT):

Carmelo: http://bkref.com/tiny/oq5B6

vs.

Kawhi: http://bkref.com/tiny/av4pb

Their postseason accomplishments as the no. 1 option are right on par with each other also.

[GSH]

The thread isn't titled "Kawhi "Carmelo" Leonard is the smartest regular season player."


LOL... fair enough. I got nothing to say to that.

[Hoops Czar]

DPOY was confident his team could get ONE stop which is why he took the best shot possible.

There is no telling what might happen in OT since it's a 5 minute period & Wall was getting into the paint at will.:wakeup

When you say most clutch regular season player, do you mean this week? Last 5 games? on a roster that features Softridge and Gashole as the second and third best options on the team? You didn't finish your sentence.

[YGWHI]

When you say most clutch regular season player, do you mean this week? Last 5 games? on a roster that features Softridge and Gashole as the second and third best options on the team? You didn't finish your sentence.

Someone can think what Kawhi does is even greater having those two players who don't make his life easier and don't draw that much attention in the last seconds.

For this regular seasos and his career.


Spurs forward Kawhi Leonard has now made 3 of his last 4 potential go-ahead shots in the final 10 seconds of the 4th quarter or overtime, including Friday against the Wizards. Leonard is 4-of-8 on those shots for his career. The NBA field-goal percentage on those shots over the last 5 seasons is 25%.

[YGWHI]

I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot.
Really?? I'd rather see Kawhi take a clean shot instead of losing in OT. It seems that you forget that this is the same team who lost to Orlando at home.

[Mnky]

If he takes a shot at the buzzer, even if it's a contested 20-footer, the worst that could happen is OT. Road teams, especially weak road teams, look to go for the 3P to win - and Beal/Wall hadn't missed a 3-pointer between them. I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot.

It was a bad basketball decision to take that shot. The Spurs were fortunate.

This is simple and accurate. He left too much time on the clock. Giving the other team an opportunity to win is never the best option. Great shot, but doesnt change it was a bad decision to shoot so early.

When given the choice of the other team having a shot to win or not, it should be an easy call. Not sure why people are trying to argue against you.

[YGWHI]

Not sure why people are trying to argue against you.

Because he said "I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot."

[MaNu4Tres]

Lol It doesn't surprise me who made this thread.. tbh.. and he couldn't be more clueless.

There's no such thing as a clutch player. There's no such thing as a " clutch gene". Such a big myth that average fans eat up.

Players are who they are. Great players will have the ball in the hands late in the games, and in the long run (with a large sample size), the averages will be right around the season averages ( players are who they are). The percentages regress to the mean as the sample size increases. There's confidence, but there's not clutch. And every NBA player that's in the game late has confidence with the aspects they do well. Whether it be Steve Kerr shooting a 3, or Tony Parker driving in the lane. They've done it their whole career, and in the long run, they will miss some and make some, right around their averages if you're just patient enough to see the sample size grow.

Is Skip Bayless the OP?

How or why do people still believe clutch is a thing?

There's several articles that will make you feel stupid if you are like Skip Bayless and believe in clutch or a clutch gene. Please read any of these links.. these are just a few examples.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/923262-debunking-the-myth-of-clutch-in-the-nba-once-and-for-all

https://cornerthree.net/2014/03/10/does-clutch-exist/

http://www.sbnation.com/2014/1/8/5287484/clutch-nba-frank-deford-random-chaos

[YGWHI]

Never seen more annoying people blaming the best player on the team for making a big shot...than these guys here.

'But but I'd rather PLAY OT instead of him making that shot'

'But but he is NOT clutch, players are what they are'

:lmao

[MaNu4Tres]

Never seen more annoying people blaming the best player on the team for making a big shot...than these guys here.

'But but I'd rather PLAY OT instead of him making that shot'

'But but he is NOT clutch, players are what they are'

:lmao

There is no such thing as a clutch player. If you think there is, then you have selective memory and only remember makes late in the game.

Keep watching Skip Bayless.

[YGWHI]

There is no such thing as a clutch player. If you think there is, then you have selective memory and only remember makes late in the game.

Keep watching Skip Bayless.

Yeah...I wonder why for some strange reason people remember the shots make late in the game....

[MaNu4Tres]

Yeah...I wonder why for some strange reason people remember the shots make late in the game....


Oh and the only reason great players make a shot late in the game isnt because he is who he is...its bc he has a Clutch gene in his DNA.

Lol youre clueless but youre a good guy.

[YGWHI]

Let me see...Because those late shots give a team the win??

Damn. What a rare reason.

[MaNu4Tres]

Let me see...Because those late shots give a team the win??

Damn. What a rare reason.

You just dont get it. No point in trying to explain more.

[YGWHI]

You just dont get it.

Coming from the guy who in an appreciation thread about a big shot says..."there is no clutch players"...Yep. You get it.

[Hoops Czar]

Because he said "I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot."

What he meant was have the Spurs play for the final shot and if they miss, the game goes to OT. He's right. Why would you leave it in the hands of a tissue paper defense to win the game? Furthermore, Kawhi had enough time to drive the lane for an easy lay up or slam dunk and would have eaten at least another 2+ seconds of the clock. Instead, he settled for a half-baked long range two point shot with Oubre JR. draped all over him.

[MaNu4Tres]

Coming from the guy who in an appreciation thread about a big shot says..."there is no clutch players"...Yep. You get it.

Lol big shots dont happen because of clutch dna. They happen because the player is great at what he does and has practiced it over and over for decades. That same player will miss a lot too in closing minutes..usually around their career averages because they are who they are.

You just dont get it. Its okay.

[YGWHI]

And again. 'He gets it'.

Especially, in THIS kind of thread.

[DAF86]

If he takes a shot at the buzzer, even if it's a contested 20-footer, the worst that could happen is OT. Road teams, especially weak road teams, look to go for the 3P to win - and Beal/Wall hadn't missed a 3-pointer between them. I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot.

It was a bad basketball decision to take that shot. The Spurs were fortunate.

It was clearly the play Pop drew. He took the shot just because of that. Good thing he's an elite shooter, tbh.

[SupremeGuy]

Only on ST can you find people dumb enough to actually bitch cause their team's best player made a clutch shot.

[100%duncan]

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

The goal of basketball is get an open look. And by the looks of how the play was designed, it was clear that they expected that kawhi would be open after that LMA screen. It's really on Pop for Kawhi to take it that early.

[GSH]

Really?? I'd rather see Kawhi take a clean shot instead of losing in OT. It seems that you forget that this is the same team who lost to Orlando at home.


Best I can explain it is that it's like the difference between a 5 game series and a 7 game series. One of Pop's big complaints was that anything can happen in a 5 game series, and that too much of the time the best team doesn't win. When the other team has plenty of time to make a last shot to win, the effort of a whole game comes down to a single shot.

Add to that the fact that home court is a big advantage in OT, and I would much rather see the Spurs have an opportunity to grind down an opponent in a full OT period, than to have the chance for Beal to drain a flukey single shot in regulation. And that's IF Kawhi's long, lower-percentage shot falls. If it doesn't, all the Wiz need is a single 2-pointer to steal the W at the end. There's a reason why road teams tend to go for the 3-pointer to win a lot more often in those situations, and a home time down by 2 tends go for a 2-pointer to tie.

You can say whatever you want, but I don't think there's any NBA coach who would rather have the game come down to a single shot by the other team, playing at home. I'm glad Kawhi made the shot. But I'm pretty sure that Pop knows that the longer the shot, the lower percentage.

As for being "clutch"? The guys who tend to make more of those game-winning late shots are also the guys who tend to make more of them earlier in the game.

[GSH]

The goal of basketball is get an open look. And by the looks of how the play was designed, it was clear that they expected that kawhi would be open after that LMA screen. It's really on Pop for Kawhi to take it that early.

Kawhi is without a doubt the best player on the team, and he has a green light from Pop to shoot when he thinks he can make it. He's good, and we all understand that. But he would be just as good in 5 minutes of OT, which would give him lots of opportunities to make higher-percentage shots than that. It was a great shot. It was also the wrong time to take it.



Only on ST can you find people dumb enough to actually bitch cause their team's best player made a clutch shot.


Point to a post - a single person - who has bitched because Kawhi "made a clutch shot". If you can't find one, you should probably consider shutting the fuck up. Nobody needs to read shit that you hallucinate.

[100%duncan]

Kawhi is without a doubt the best player on the team, and he has a green light from Pop to shoot when he thinks he can make it. He's good, and we all understand that. But he would be just as good in 5 minutes of OT, which would give him lots of opportunities to make higher-percentage shots than that. It was a great shot. It was also the wrong time to take it.





Point to a post - a single person - who has bitched because Kawhi "made a clutch shot". If you can't find one, you should probably consider shutting the fuck up. Nobody needs to read shit that you hallucinate.

I dont give a shit who took the last shot or if it went in or not and the wiz would've had a gamewinner or whatever. The point is that it was the designed play, and that's on Pop. Props to them for making it work.

[Kawhitstorm]

Lol It doesn't surprise me who made this thread.. tbh.. and he couldn't be more clueless. There's no such thing as a clutch player. There's no such thing as a " clutch gene". Such a big myth that average fans eat up. Players are who they are. Great players will have the ball in the hands late in the games, and in the long run (with a large sample size), the averages will be right around the season averages ( players are who they are). The percentages regress to the mean as the sample size increases. There's confidence, but there's not clutch. And every NBA player that's in the game late has confidence with the aspects they do well. Whether it be Steve Kerr shooting a 3, or Tony Parker driving in the lane. They've done it their whole career, and in the long run, they will miss some and make some, right around their averages if you're just patient enough to see the sample size grow. Is Skip Bayless the OP? How or why do people still believe clutch is a thing? There's several articles that will make you feel stupid if you are like Skip Bayless and believe in clutch or a clutch gene. Please read any of these links.. these are just a few examples. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/923262-debunking-the-myth-of-clutch-in-the-nba-once-and-for-all https://cornerthree.net/2014/03/10/does-clutch-exist/ http://www.sbnation.com/2014/1/8/5287484/clutch-nba-frank-deford-random-chaos

Someone has their panties in bunches.:lmao

If there is are such thing as CHOKER then there is such a thing as CLUTCH player, can't have one without the other b/c it's all about RELATIVITY. A clutch player doesn't have to make an absurd amount of shots but rather MAINTAIN their level of play even under PRESSURE which is what Kawhi has done for the most part as he has a career eFG of 55% in the final 4 minutes+ OT: http://bkref.com/tiny/Hx2GG

Melting under pressure is a REAL thing, I don't need some analytics dude sitting on his high-horse to tell me Kirby takes TERRIBLE shots & plays hero-ball so he isn't clutch. There are guy who aren't afraid to jack-up shot during crunch time & there are those who don't deviate from their normal game play.

There are a select few who are able to focus MORE under pressure situation, such as Horry. He had a ridiculous eFG of :wow70%:wow in the 4th quarter + OT of three straight championship runs ('02/'05/'07).

Horry was absurdly clutch for the Spurs during the '05 & '07 postseason runs: http://bkref.com/tiny/ca0Vy

[Old School 44]

Did anyone else notice Tony's reaction on the bench after the shot?
He looked unimpressed. :stirpot:

[NameLess Scrub]

Everybody has a point here, imvho. Taking that shot was good because it's his shot and he could make it, regardless of how good it is in general to take or not that shot, and at that point. However they risked getting scored on and the Spurs are struggling to defend certain players. If he missed, even worse.

Taking the shot at the end of regulation was good too as evident, but they risked struggling for a shot, missing, and going into overtime when their defense was struggling vs Wall/Beal.

I guess it's not that simple to determine what was the better course. I guess ideally it was running down the clock with a play good enough to give Kawhi some space.

I think clutch is a real thing if we view it as a combination of high level play and ability to perform under pressure, in general.

[RD2191]

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

Crofl. Get that weak shit outta here.

[RD2191]

Only on ST can you find people dumb enough to actually bitch cause their team's best player made a clutch shot.

Fucking morons tbh. This place is really going down the shitter.

[Kawhitstorm]

Their postseason accomplishments as the no. 1 option are right on par with each other also.

Except Kawhi didn't get outplayed by Luke Walton for the duration of a playoff series: http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2008-nba-western-conference-first-round-nuggets-vs-lakers.html

[Clipper Nation]

Their postseason accomplishments as the no. 1 option are right on par with each other also.
Melo has a championship and Finals MVP as the first option? Since when?

[TheGreatYacht]

Their postseason accomplishments as the no. 1 option are right on par with each other also.
:lol

[TheGreatYacht]

Melo has a championship and Finals MVP as the first option? Since when?
You're right. He's no Duncan or Parker

[MaNu4Tres]

Someone has their panties in bunches.:lmao

If there is are such thing as CHOKER then there is such a thing as CLUTCH player, can't have one without the other b/c it's all about RELATIVITY. A clutch player doesn't have to make an absurd amount of shots but rather MAINTAIN their level of play even under PRESSURE which is what Kawhi has done for the most part as he has a career eFG of 55% in the final 4 minutes+ OT: http://bkref.com/tiny/Hx2GG

Melting under pressure is a REAL thing, I don't need some analytics dude sitting on his high-horse to tell me Kirby takes TERRIBLE shots & plays hero-ball so he isn't clutch. There are guy who aren't afraid to jack-up shot during crunch time & there are those who don't deviate from their normal game play.

There are a select few who are able to focus MORE under pressure situation, such as Horry. He had a ridiculous eFG of :wow70%:wow in the 4th quarter + OT of three straight championship runs ('02/'05/'07).

Horry was absurdly clutch for the Spurs during the '05 & '07 postseason runs: http://bkref.com/tiny/ca0Vy


You sound like Skip Bayless. Great players maintain their level of play late in games in the long run because they are great players. It's not because they are clutch or because they have a clutch gene. They are who they are. A clutch gene doesn't exist, confidence exists, but usually if you're a player in at the end of a big game, every player has confidence in the aspects they contribute through their roles.

You can be like the idiot fan, who called Danny Green a choker after the 2012 playoff run, when in reality he just hit a dry spell shooters go through in basketball. He's one of the best spot up shooters, Spurs have ever had and that's why in 2013 and 2014 playoff runs, his shooting percentages increased to the mean after a tough 2012 skid. Then all of a sudden a lot of idiots like yourself were saying how clutch he now was. Soon after, in the 2015 run, Danny then went 12 for 40 from 3 vs. the Clippers and regressed to his mean after two years of shooting lights out. If there was such a thing of clutch then a player that has a "clutch gene" would perform way over their mean and come through time and time again. That is not the case. They'lll miss and make around their career averages.

I like how you left out 5 years of Horry shitting the bed. For the Lakers in 01', 03', for the Spurs in 04', 06', 08' Horry shot below 30% EFG in those same minutes. If he was clutch or if clutch was a real thing, he would come through every year way above his career averages during regular season. That is not the case though because clutch isn't a real thing. It's the biggest myth in sports that idiots like you eat up year after year.

[SuperCam]

Kiwistans boasting about regular season shot over garbage team :lmao

[SuperCam]

https://bendavidwong.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/screen-shot-2013-06-22-at-7-03-40-pm.png





Stop getting buttfucked by Barnes/Roberson level scrubs as the 1st option in the playoffs before you can call yourself clutch :bang

[TheGreatYacht]

https://bendavidwong.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/screen-shot-2013-06-22-at-7-03-40-pm.png





Stop getting buttfucked by Barnes/Roberson level scrubs as the 1st option in the playoffs before you can call yourself clutch :bang
http://life.partyjollof.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Fainted-gif1.gif

[Clipper Nation]

You're right. He's no Duncan or Parker
I said as the first option. Not as the 12th option being "guarded" by Boobie Gibson.

[SuperCam]

Their postseason accomplishments as the no. 1 option are right on par with each other also.

To be fair, Carmelo got his team to the conference finals as the first option a few years go, so he's actually done more :tu

[benefactor]

https://bendavidwong.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/screen-shot-2013-06-22-at-7-03-40-pm.png





Stop getting buttfucked by Barnes/Roberson level scrubs as the 1st option in the playoffs before you can call yourself clutch :bang
Also the face of a man who doesn't own a bunch of cats tbh

[Joseph Kony]

If he takes a shot at the buzzer, even if it's a contested 20-footer, the worst that could happen is OT. Road teams, especially weak road teams, look to go for the 3P to win - and Beal/Wall hadn't missed a 3-pointer between them. I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot.

It was a bad basketball decision to take that shot. The Spurs were fortunate.

you usually have solid takes but that i have to disagree with, he got a wide open shot, you take it. you don't give up a wide open lead taking shot in the final seconds because someone might hit a 3 pointer, than makes no sense tbh

[Play Boban]

Small sample size. :nope

[Raven]

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

.

[Clipper Nation]

https://bendavidwong.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/screen-shot-2013-06-22-at-7-03-40-pm.png





Stop getting buttfucked by Barnes/Roberson level scrubs as the 1st option in the playoffs before you can call yourself clutch :bang

2:42


http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/mia.png&h=100&w=100
Ray Allen shooting foul (Tony Parker draws the foul)
99 - 97



2:42
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
Tony Parker misses free throw 1 of 2

99 - 97


http://i.imgur.com/I1KWeF8.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oqIUPBzCh4

[RD2191]

2:42


http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/mia.png&h=100&w=100
Ray Allen shooting foul (Tony Parker draws the foul)
99 - 97



2:42
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
Tony Parker misses free throw 1 of 2
99 - 97


http://i.imgur.com/I1KWeF8.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oqIUPBzCh4
:wow:lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

You can be like the idiot fan, who called Danny Green a choker after the 2012 playoff run, when in reality he just hit a dry spell shooters go through in basketball. He's one of the best spot up shooters, Spurs have ever had and that's why in 2013 and 2014 playoff runs, his shooting percentages increased to the mean after a tough 2012 skid. Then all of a sudden a lot of idiots like yourself were saying how clutch he now was. Soon after, in the 2015 run, Danny then went 12 for 40 from 3 vs. the Clippers and regressed to his mean after two years of shooting lights out. If there was such a thing of clutch then a player that has a "clutch gene" would perform way over their mean and come through time and time again. That is not the case. They'lll miss and make around their career averages.

I like how you left out 5 years of Horry shitting the bed. For the Lakers in 01', 03', for the Spurs in 04', 06', 08' Horry shot below 30% EFG in those same minutes. If he was clutch or if clutch was a real thing, he would come through every year way above his career averages during regular season. That is not the case though because clutch isn't a real thing. It's the biggest myth in sports that idiots like you eat up year after year.

You mean to tell me a shooter in a slump maintained his level of play from the ENTIRE game/series.:lmao

Horry had an eFG of 50% in '01 during crunch time which is better than 90% of the league.

vvuKAmLZgkg

Horry was was in a horrible slump during '03....he basically maintained his level play during crunch time, he didn't shrink. He actually stepped up & took what was the biggest shot of the series (despite it rattling out) while other player such as Softridge would have been playing hot potatoes.:rolleyes

Danny is a one dimensional spot-up shooter who can't do anything if a defender is within 3ft of him. He was in a slump the ENTIRE series against the Cripples, it had nothing to do w/ him shrinking. If anything he stepped up in Gm 7 when someone like Peja would have been running away from the ball. Against OKC, he was basically a rookie & lost his composer under pressure.

There is no such thing as a biological :lol"clutch gene":lol, some players are able to stay composed under pressure & guys like Horry can focus more when the stakes are high.

[Kawhitstorm]

https://bendavidwong.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/screen-shot-2013-06-22-at-7-03-40-pm.png





63.4% free throw shooter missed a free throw.:sleep

[Mikeanaro]

Dont call him ¨Carmelo¨ thats discouraging, tbh.

[Hoops Czar]

Melo has a championship and Finals MVP as the first option? Since when?

Neither of them have a championship and Finals MVP as the first option. Kawhi Leonard was the third option in 2013-14. Duncan should have been Finals MVP that year. Btw, it's worth noting that Kawhi Leonard is having his worst defensive season of his career and it isn't even close.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5

I can't help but think Duncan's retirement might have had a little something to do with that. Damn, getting face-fucked by Kevin Durant on defense has got to be a little bit of a humbling experience for the former DPOY (Should have been Tim too).

81st overall!! :lol Give Kawhi the DPOY award right now!!


(http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5)http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/DRPM

[Kawhitstorm]

Neither of them have a championship and Finals MVP as the first option. Kawhi Leonard was the third option in 2013-14. Duncan should have been Finals MVP that year. Btw, it's worth noting that Kawhi Leonard is having his worst defensive year of his career and it isn't even close.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5

I can't help but think Duncan's retirement might have had a little something to do with that. Damn, getting face-fucked by Kevin Durant on defense has got to be a little bit of a humbling experience for the former DPOY (Should have been Tim too).

81st overall!! :lol Give Kawhi the DPOY award right now!!


(http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5)http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/DRPM

If you think DRPM is legit & explain to me how Fat Head is the #1 ranked defender for his position::lol http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/2

[Hoops Czar]

If you think DRPM is legit & explain to me how Fat Head is the #1 ranked defender for his position::lol http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/2

DRPM isn't without its flaws but Kyle is a pretty decent one-on-one defender and a good rebounder for his position. I don't put a ton of stock in one defensive metric because it's impossible to separate team defense from individualized defense since basketball is a team sport and playing alongside bad defenders can cause one's individual defensive numbers to drop. but, I like to look at trends. Who would have funk it that a 39 year old Tim Duncan was still the key to the Spur's defense. :lol

2013-14 ... 2.13
2014-15 ... 4.59
2015-16 ... 3.88
2016-17 ... 0.93

[MaNu4Tres]

You mean to tell me a shooter in a slump maintained his level of play from the ENTIRE game/series.:lmao

Horry had an eFG of 50% in '01 during crunch time which is better than 90% of the league.

vvuKAmLZgkg

Horry was was in a horrible slump during '03....he basically maintained his level play during crunch time, he didn't shrink. He actually stepped up & took what was the biggest shot of the series (despite it rattling out) while other player such as Softridge would have been playing hot potatoes.:rolleyes

Danny is a one dimensional spot-up shooter who can't do anything if a defender is within 3ft of him. He was in a slump the ENTIRE series against the Cripples, it had nothing to do w/ him shrinking. If anything he stepped up in Gm 7 when someone like Peja would have been running away from the ball. Against OKC, he was basically a rookie & lost his composer under pressure.

There is no such thing as a biological :lol"clutch gene":lol, some players are able to stay composed under pressure & guys like Horry can focus more when the stakes are high.

You obviously have different takes in many perspectives -- which is fine. But id be an idiot to sit here for hours all day to try to explain things over and over. What Im explaining has facts and substance behind it. Youre believing in things that cant be quantified and if you try to quantify it, you only bring up stats from certain years and ignoring the big picture and the yrs when a player shit the bed ( Horry for example).


Just agree to disagree. You can have your ficticious beliefs that players have a clutch gene, because thats what it means to say a player is clutch or not.

Youre a constant troll, who mistakes your subjective opinions as facts.

Carry on

[TD 21]

Lol It doesn't surprise me who made this thread.. tbh.. and he couldn't be more clueless.

There's no such thing as a clutch player. There's no such thing as a " clutch gene". Such a big myth that average fans eat up.

Players are who they are. Great players will have the ball in the hands late in the games, and in the long run (with a large sample size), the averages will be right around the season averages ( players are who they are). The percentages regress to the mean as the sample size increases. There's confidence, but there's not clutch. And every NBA player that's in the game late has confidence with the aspects they do well. Whether it be Steve Kerr shooting a 3, or Tony Parker driving in the lane. They've done it their whole career, and in the long run, they will miss some and make some, right around their averages if you're just patient enough to see the sample size grow.

Is Skip Bayless the OP?

How or why do people still believe clutch is a thing?

There's several articles that will make you feel stupid if you are like Skip Bayless and believe in clutch or a clutch gene. Please read any of these links.. these are just a few examples.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/923262-debunking-the-myth-of-clutch-in-the-nba-once-and-for-all

https://cornerthree.net/2014/03/10/does-clutch-exist/

http://www.sbnation.com/2014/1/8/5287484/clutch-nba-frank-deford-random-chaos




Neither of them have a championship and Finals MVP as the first option. Kawhi Leonard was the third option in 2013-14. Duncan should have been Finals MVP that year. Btw, it's worth noting that Kawhi Leonard is having his worst defensive season of his career and it isn't even close.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5

I can't help but think Duncan's retirement might have had a little something to do with that. Damn, getting face-fucked by Kevin Durant on defense has got to be a little bit of a humbling experience for the former DPOY (Should have been Tim too).

81st overall!! :lol Give Kawhi the DPOY award right now!!


(http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5)http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/DRPM

:tu I honestly :lmao reading these. The borderline arrogance, sarcasm and utter disdain and disgust at what you were both replying to was loud and clear . . . it reminded me of someone. :lol

[Kawhitstorm]

You obviously have different takes in many perspectives -- which is fine. But id be an idiot to sit here for hours all day to try to explain things over and over. What Im explaining has facts and substance behind it. Youre believing in things that cant be quantified and if you try to quantify it, you only bring up stats from certain years and ignoring the big picture and the yrs when a player shit the bed ( Horry for example).


Just agree to disagree. You can have your ficticious beliefs that players have a clutch gene, because thats what it means to say a player is clutch or not.

Youre a constant troll, who mistakes your subjective opinions as facts.

Carry on

If you're are claiming there is no such thing as "composure" then I suggest you look into sport psychology. Asafa Powell was by far the best 100m Grand Prix runner before Bolt came onto the scene & has run under 10 second more than any sprinter in history but he NEVER won a Gold medal at ANY global championship race b/c the nerves got to him.

You jumped the shark assuming I was playing the dumb "clutch gene" theory & it blew up in your face::lol....and I'm the one being FICTITIOUS b/c I presented verifiable STATS.:lmao

If you're are claiming that "crunch time" is subjective then I suggest you track when all 5 players ACTUALLY start playing defense for an ENTIRE possession & some players start playing hot potatoes. In any case, this is the definition used by most databases:


4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points



You'll get me next time cowboy, just keep your composure next time.:toast

[Kawhitstorm]

DRPM isn't without its flaws but Kyle is a pretty decent one-on-one defender and a good rebounder for his position. I don't put a ton of stock in one defensive metric because it's impossible to separate team defense from individualized defense since basketball is a team sport and playing alongside bad defenders can cause one's individual defensive numbers to drop. but, I like to look at trends. Who would have funk it that a 39 year old Tim Duncan was still the key to the Spur's defense. :lol

2013-14 ... 2.13
2014-15 ... 4.59
2015-16 ... 3.88
2016-17 ... 0.93

That's doesn't say anything about Kawhi in a vacuum.:sleep

The only variable that changed was Pau being swapped for Tim thus that basically tells you Pau sucks at playing help defense.:lol
You can't change a variable & claim your controls are causing the effect, look up the scientific theory.:wakeup

[Yuixafun]

If there are guys that fold under pressure, then the opposite is true... when the going get tough, the tough get going.

It's simple.

[Clipper Nation]

Neither of them have a championship and Finals MVP as the first option.

http://i.imgur.com/oO2Tm13.jpg

[Clipper Nation]

To be fair, Carmelo got his team to the conference finals as the first option a few years go, so he's actually done more :tu

Chauncey carried him to it.

[Kawhitstorm]

Chauncey carried him to it.

Yeah, Billups destroyed Choke-P3 when the Nuggets annihilated the Hornets & handed them the worst loss in postseason history.:lol

MlYrGvSdbSQ

They lost to the Lakers b/c Fat Melo pulled a Softridge & disappeared when the going got tough. Dude was getting outplayed by JR Smith.:lol

[TheDoctor]

2:42


http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/mia.png&h=100&w=100
Ray Allen shooting foul (Tony Parker draws the foul)
99 - 97



2:42
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
Tony Parker misses free throw 1 of 2
99 - 97


http://i.imgur.com/I1KWeF8.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oqIUPBzCh4

Embracing his roll shit. Porker is such a hypocrite. Guess who's the only one not cheering/rooting for Kawhi after his game winner vs Washington? Yup :wow

https://i.imgbox.com/gD6hAVsO.gif

[Kawhitstorm]

Career high 16pt in the 4th quarter:wow

Wing-man Softridge:worthy:

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Career high 16pt in the 4th quarter:wow

Wing-man Softridge:worthy:

Huh? Leonard missed the GW shot and was bailed out by Aldridge's offensive rebound and putback. I don't get this bump from a KL fanboy perspective.

[Spurs_619]

Huh? Leonard missed the GW shot and was bailed out by Aldridge's offensive rebound and putback. I don't get this bump from a KL fanboy perspective.

Leonard carried the offense in the 4th and LMA played great also.... all hes saying lol

[Kawhitstorm]

Huh? Leonard missed the GW shot and was bailed out by Aldridge's offensive rebound and putback. I don't get this bump from a KL fanboy perspective.

He missed the shot but it was a "Kirby assist" as he drew multiple defenders which allowed LMA to get the board. In any case, Kawhi took over in the 4th quarter after Dedmon led the comeback while Patty was firing bricks trying to give away the game.

[TheDoctor]

He missed the shot but it was a "Kirby assist" as he drew multiple defenders which allowed LMA to get the board. In any case, Kawhi took over in the 4th quarter after Dedmon led the comeback while Patty was firing bricks trying to give away the game.

[YGWHI]

Huh? Leonard missed the GW shot and was bailed out by Aldridge's offensive rebound and putback. I don't get this bump from a KL fanboy perspective.

When KD scored 17 points in the 4th quarter against us..."he's the best offensive player in the world" "what a player"

Kawhi scored 16 points in the 4th quarter against a team that already beat the Cavs/LeBron and almost the Warriors this season..."nah, Kawhi missed a shot"

Never seen a worst fan base...smh. Kawhi has become an absolute 4th quarter monster but "nah..."

[UNT Eagles 2016]

He missed the shot but it was a "Kirby assist" as he drew multiple defenders which allowed LMA to get the board. In any case, Kawhi took over in the 4th quarter after Dedmon led the comeback while Patty was firing bricks trying to give away the game.

hilarious because true... one of those where Shaq/Gasol would have put back for a bucket, foul or and-1. And kobe would get the credit even though he missed the biggest shot of the game.

[MaNu4Tres]

Exactly why this thread was just dumb.

Just like every player who plays in the last 2 minutes, his two misses were just regression to the mean of his average - per par.

[TheGreatYacht]

Kiss of death :lol

[Kawhitstorm]

Exactly why this thread was just dumb.

Just like every player who plays in the last 2 minutes, his two misses were just regression to the mean of his average - per par.

Yeah, this was a 100% Kawhi :lmao

Even then he made a clutch 3 after struggling all game long & had a potential game winner rim out after doing the toilet bowl.

[Hoops Czar]

Yeah, this was a 100% Kawhi.:lmao

More like 90%-10%

[TheGreatYacht]

Yeah, this was a 100% Kawhi.:lmao
Yes it was

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Big Players make Big Shots in Big Games

[Kawhitstorm]

Yes it was

Nobody asked you about 1-5 Choke Porker.

[Kawhitstorm]

Big Players make Big Shots in Big Games

I agree, this game wasn't big enough.:toast

[TheGreatYacht]

Nobody asked you about 1-5 Choke Porker.
You mean 10/18 Parker?

Where did you get 1/5 from? Is that Kawhobe's FGM/FGA in the 4th and OT?

[cd98]

He had two great looks. Just didn't fall. I'm impressed that he could get himself such good looks. That said, no need to diss him or other Spurs because they lost a road game in the regular season.

[TheGreatYacht]

I agree, this game wasn't big enough.:toast
Yup. These ain't the mighty Wizards and Magic (sub .500 teams :lol)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lac_A3wlZVs&feature=share

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtX1SfUvPO0&feature=share

[Kawhitstorm]

You mean 10/18 Parker?

Where did you get 1/5 from?

The sequence at the end of the 4th where Porker turned into Enirique while ignoring LMA:

2:11


http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
LaMarcus Aldridge makes 5-foot two point shot
98 - 93



1:50
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/atl.png&h=100&w=100
Dennis Schroder makes driving layup
98 - 95



1:27
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
Tony Parker misses driving layup
98 - 95



1:24
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
Tony Parker offensive rebound
98 - 95



1:07
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
LaMarcus Aldridge steps out of bounds turnover
98 - 95



1:07
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/atl.png&h=100&w=100
Official timeout
98 - 95



1:07
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
Manu Ginobili enters the game for Jonathon Simmons
98 - 95



0:49
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/atl.png&h=100&w=100
Paul Millsap makes driving layup (Dennis Schroder assists)
98 - 97



0:26
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
Tony Parker misses 21-foot
98 - 97

[TheGreatYacht]

The sequence at the end of the 4th where Porker turned into Enirique while ignoring LMA:

2:11


http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
LaMarcus Aldridge makes 5-foot two point shot
98 - 93



1:50
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/atl.png&h=100&w=100
Dennis Schroder makes driving layup
98 - 95



1:27
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
Tony Parker misses driving layup
98 - 95



1:24
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
Tony Parker offensive rebound
98 - 95



1:07
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
LaMarcus Aldridge steps out of bounds turnover
98 - 95



1:07
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/atl.png&h=100&w=100
Official timeout
98 - 95



1:07
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
Manu Ginobili enters the game for Jonathon Simmons
98 - 95



0:49
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/atl.png&h=100&w=100
Paul Millsap makes driving layup (Dennis Schroder assists)
98 - 97



0:26
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&h=100&w=100
Tony Parker misses 21-foot
98 - 97



Missed a layup (and grabbed the offensive rebound), and missed a BAILOUT mid range jumper.

You pulling numbers out of your ass bro?

[Kawhitstorm]

Yup. These ain't the mighty Wizards and Magic (sub .500 teams :lol)

Too bad he had to blowout the team w/ the best record in 3 quarters that he couldn't takeover in the 4th quarter.:cry

[Kawhitstorm]

Missed a layup (and grabbed the offensive rebound), and missed a BAILOUT mid range jumper.

You pulling numbers out of your ass bro?

He took a fuckin' bail out jumper after eating up the shot clock trying to go 1-on-1 w/ Millsap when LMA had Schroder on him.:lmao

[YGWHI]

Until this game in Atlanta, he was top #6 scorer in the 4th quarter. If stats mean something he's great in the last minutes of the game.
http://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?cid=nbacomsocial_tw_sf48592879#!?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4


He had two great looks. Just didn't fall. I'm impressed that he could get himself such good looks. That said, no need to diss him or other Spurs because they lost a road game in the regular season.

Pretty amazing if we consider his all rusty game. But still got those looks. He has to build on that.

[MaNu4Tres]

Until this game in Atlanta, he was top #6 scorer in the 4th quarter. If stats mean something he's great in the last minutes of the game.
http://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?cid=nbacomsocial_tw_sf48592879#!?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4




Volume has something to do with that since hes shooting 43% and 31% from 3 in 4th quarters this yr. If he was clutch ( or if clutch was such a thing) wouldnt those numbers be better?

Still a small sample but he should improve to around his avg in the long run. Players are who they are.

[YGWHI]

43% and 31%

I'm getting tired of people saying on this forum that Kawhi isn't elite-efficient or he's shooting poorly. 'But but his efficiency is paying the price for...:cry '

814856960537403392

814860766687862784

I'm starting to agree with those guys who post that Kawhi needs a better fan base.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm getting tired of people saying on this forum that Kawhi isn't elite-efficient or he's shooting poorly. 'But but his efficiency is paying the price for...:cry '

814856960537403392

814860766687862784

I'm starting to agree with those guys who post that Kawhi needs a better fan base.

What does any of that have to do with my post? Are you that clueless? Do you understand what I'm posting?

Where did I ever say Kawhi sucks or Kawhi is inefficient?

All I'm saying is there's no such thing as clutch by pointing out Kawhis two misses " in the clutch" tonight. And even further by pointing out he's shooting 43% from the field and 31% from 3 in 4th quarters this year.

The best players in the game miss and make at around their averages in 4th quarters in the long run, so I'm not getting on Kawhi. I'm expecting him to miss often in crucial times because it happens -- there's no such thing as clutch players who come through all the time lol or most of the time. They come through at around their averages in the long run. The only elite player who didn't come through in crucial situations as often as his career percentages was Kobe because he forced and took bad shots more than any elite player in the past 30 years.

Here's some criticism for you that will make you a better poster. Try actually reading what people post instead of being so damn defensive and sensitive about Kawhi -- chalking up anything Kawhi related that has any hint of criticism up to " Kawhi needs a better fan base".

What I said wasn't even a critique, and you're pulling out tweets that have nothing to do with the discussion. My posts in this thread is about the OP and others dumb obsessions about clutch players when there's no such thing. If there was such thing as clutch, numbers in the long run ( over large samples) would be substantially different for non clutch and clutch players -- but that's not the case.

[YGWHI]

Where did I ever say Kawhi sucks or Kawhi is inefficient?
After read your post about the FG% I just remember other people here talking about his numbers.


Last year, his FG% was .506 and his EFG% was .565...This year, his FG% is .471 and his EFG% is .528... So, yeah, I think he's paying a price on both ends.
Drops only 0.3% but 'he's paying the price'

Like I've said, I'm tired of reading about his FG%. But you were right, this wasn't really on your post. My bad.


My posts in this thread is about the OP and others dumb obsessions about clutch players when there's no such thing. If there was such thing as clutch, numbers in the long run ( over large samples) would be substantially different for non clutch and clutch players -- but that's not the case.

IDK. I still think there are players who can handle the pressure better in the last minutes than others.

Great players make great shots in crunch time? Not always. If a top scorer shoots over .50% in the season, that means he should shoot the same % in the last 2 minutes? Not really, that's not always related to talent or regular season efficiency.

[Kawhitstorm]

Volume has something to do with that since hes shooting 43% and 31% from 3 in 4th quarters this yr. If he was clutch ( or if clutch was such a thing) wouldnt those numbers be better?

I'm not sure why you keep defining clutch as a guy going supernova when it's about having to overcome adversity & staying even keel b/c there is a game within the game. Usually, Kawhi doesn't even play in crunch time when he's rolling (there is a reason why his career high is only 35:lol) b/c the game is already a blowout meanwhile if he isn't playing well he's more than likely going to be playing in crunch time unless the team is getting blownout.

There are guys who are white hot then fall apart (not just shooting but turnovers) when the pressure ratchets up then there are guys who struggle all game long then make the moment shifting plays in crunch time. A frontrunner like Durant shooting 80% for the first 43 minute of the game then fumbling the ball or shooting 40% is different than Kyrie shooting 30% then making all the momentum shifting plays. What you need to focus on is the trend that some players persevere while others melt down in pressure situation. Nobody is asking anyone to go supernova in crunch time: if you're playing well then maintain your level of play or if you're struggling then fight through it.

Just from the Hawks game alone, Porker got excited & started playing hero-ball meanwhile Kawhi was struggling all game long but stepped up when his team needed him even if he was denied by two ridiculous misses that occur once a year. There is a reason Pop rarely gave the ball to Porker in crunch time even if he was rolling & put the ball in the hands of Manu even if he was struggling unless he was being extremely sloppy. Porker from day one showed he can't handle adversity & always has a tendency to play hero-ball when he's hot while Manu fight through adversity nor does he let the moment get to him (except for a couple of brain farts:lol).

When Kawhi is rolling & the game happens to be a close game then still maintains his level of play, if he has been struggling all game long then he usually steps up even if he isn't necessarily shooting 47%. (There is a leading MVP candidate shooting 43% for the season:lol)

[Brazil]

:lol Clutch... such yesterday's NBA :lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

After read your post about the FG% I just remember other people here talking about his numbers.
Drops only 0.3% but 'he's paying the price'


It's not 0.3% though, it's 3%.

[bic50]

That was a good win for the Spurs against the hawks. Don't know why you guys are fighting.

[dabom]

Kawhi made a 3 and some freethrows.

[YGWHI]

It's not 0.3% though, it's 3%.
Exactly, only .3%.

He's scoring 3 ppg more than last season and just .3% less.

That's not even .5% and people still whining...smh.

[YGWHI]

(There is a leading MVP candidate shooting 43% for the season:lol)

Doesn't matter if he's a top 10 scorer or Spurs have a good record...People here would demand PATFO to trade Kawhi is he shoots .43% in a season. :D

'But but his efficiency is paying the price :cry :cry'

[MaNu4Tres]

Doesn't matter if he's a top 10 scorer or Spurs have a good record...People here would demand PATFO to trade Kawhi is he shoots .43% in a season. :D

'But but his efficiency is paying the price :cry :cry'

Stop with the shrooms kid. No one here has said that

[YGWHI]

Stop with the shrooms kid. No one here has said that
I already quoted here one of the guys who said that.

[Chinook]

Stop with the shrooms kid. No one here has said that

There's no use in saying that. Y will continue to say that with quotes around it in an attempt to strawman his way to victory.

[diego]

Exactly, only .3%.

He's scoring 3 ppg more than last season and just .3% less.

That's not even .5% and people still whining...smh.

havent even followed the whole discussion but you are reading percentages wrong. if player x shoots .489, he shoots 48.9 percent. thus, if he now shoots .429, his percentage dropped 6 percent. the way you are writing .5%, its unclear if you refer to .500 which would be a sizeable 50 percent, .050 which would be 5 percent or .005 which would be a miniscule half of a percentage point. in the prior example the difference was 3 percent, or .03

[dabom]

There's no use in saying that. Y will continue to say that with quotes around it in an attempt to strawman his way to victory.

No one cares what you think faggot. :lmao

[Ice009]

Have many of you ever played Basketball? Some people/players get tight when the pressure is higher at the end of the game (especially a close game), some don't feel it and still perform at their normal level. That's what I call crunch time ability and play. Playing at your normal level, or even raising it up a notch when the pressure is higher and the game is tight.

Some players miss shots due to the fact that they're scared of missing in those situations, so in cases like that, the ball doesn't have the same chance to go in like it normally would when they're shooting it earlier in the game. Some don't even want to take the shot at all and pass it off (even if it is an open look).

[YGWHI]

in the prior example the difference was 3 percent, or .03

He said his FG% was .506 last season, now .471%... He dropped just .03. I mean only 3%

That's why it's hard to believe that someone thinks that just 3% is 'that much' relevant.

[YGWHI]

There's no use in saying that. Y will continue to say that with quotes around it in an attempt to strawman his way to victory.

You mean people who want to win a bball talk in a sport forum? Nah, I'm not that pathetic and decadent like you.

But I'm getting tired of people talking about his FG% when they don't even look at the FG% of main scorers in the league.

[still.focused]

Big Players make Big Shots in Big Games

Like the Duncan layup in Games 7?
Jordan missed close to 30 game winners
/Hysteria

We all woulda preferred a win
But unless your scheduled to die the second the game ends this should not be considered a "Big Game"
And thats not even to give Kawhi a pass
He damn sure shoulda tried to finish OVER Milsap as opposed to around him especially with the running start

[diego]

He said his FG% was .506 last season, now .471%... He dropped just .03. I mean only 3%

That's why it's hard to believe that someone thinks that just 3% is 'that much' relevant.



As far as fg%, I would say that 2% is marginal and 5% is notable, 3% is not a huge difference but enough to be noticeable; it's also about what you would expect in terms of more volume / less efficiency. It's not enough for me to be upset about, but it is indicative of kawhi's increased volume. I would think that for most players, +/- 3% is a big deal, especially as you get closer to 50%.

[140]

Have many of you ever played Basketball? Some people/players get tight when the pressure is higher at the end of the game (especially a close game), some don't feel it and still perform at their normal level. That's what I call crunch time ability and play. Playing at your normal level, or even raising it up a notch when the pressure is higher and the game is tight.

Some players miss shots due to the fact that they're scared of missing in those situations, so in cases like that, the ball doesn't have the same chance to go in like it normally would when they're shooting it earlier in the game. Some don't even want to take the shot at all and pass it off (even if it is an open look).
That was my first thought as well tbh :lol I can't believe this is having to be explained here

[Ice009]

That was my first thought as well tbh: lol I can't believe this is having to be explained here

Yep. I really do think some people around here or other forums, in general, have played much Basketball outside of pickup games.

[MaNu4Tres]

Yep. I really do think some people around here or other forums, in general, have played much Basketball outside of pickup games.

Nah.

Have you been a top 5 player on a playoff NBA team before? Do you know what kind of confidence you need to have to reach that level? Those are the type of players in at the end of big games -- it's not the 9th or 10th guy on the team. Also, I'm not going to act like I know how they feel, its impossible to quantify. But I guarantee its a lot different than a 18 year old starting for the first time on varsity and having to take a big shot.

These are professionals who have played the game for years and usually the best players ( and the ones with the most confidence) are in at the end of big games. In the long run, they convert shots at around their career averages. If clutch was such a thing, then there would be a substantial difference between their percentages in the long run -- but that's not the case.

Bad players won't perform at the highest level vs. the best competition because they simply aren't good enough to produce consistently enough ( its not because they lack clutch). At the same time, good or great players will perform on the highest level vs the best competition because they are good enough to execute vs. the best competition the same way they do in quarters 1, 2 and 3.

If some NBA players had problems being nervous at crucial times there would be strong supporting evidence to back it up through long run statistics, but that simply is not the case.

[Kawhitstorm]

If some NBA players had problems being nervous at crucial times there would be strong supporting evidence to back it up through long run statistics, but that simply is not the case.

It's called panicking, which happens to folks from EVERY walk of life including trained Navy SEALs who are SPECIFICALLY trained not to panic.

Elite professional basketball players getting rattled by a simple full-court press::lol

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In the biggest game of his college career, Chris Webber panicked & called a timeout (when Michigan didn't have one) AFTER he traveled.

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In the biggest game of his career as a pro, he wet the bed in the final 16 minutes of Gm 7 including picking up a technical in the 4th quarter which came back to bite them as the game went to OT. Mike "Never even been an All-Star" Bibby was the one who stayed composed.

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[MaNu4Tres]

If some NBA players had problems being nervous at crucial times there would be strong supporting evidence to back it up through long run statistics, but that simply is not the case.

This means over the long run, or over a large sample for those people who can't read.

Pointing out ONE TIME " moments" from ONE GAME is something Skip Bayliss does. :lol

Truth is, players miss, players make mistakes a game here or a game there but that doesn't mean the player is unclutch
.
Hit the tape...

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So you were pointing out a few games Webber wasn't clutch or moments he " Panicked" because he made a few mistakes at the end of games? Well, here's a few games he did come through, if unclutch was a thing then why did he come through on these occasions?


Like I said before, in the long run, you can't prove clutch or unclutch because over the long run, players make or miss at around their averages. They also will make a mistake here or there on occasion over the course of their careers.

And :rollin at comparing Navy Seals to NBA Players. Because fighting for your life and your country is comparable to a basketball game. Those men in the Navy Seals are trained not to panick in time their LIFE is on the line. When your LIFE is on the line its understandable to be trained to not panick, but for a basketball game? You can't compare the two, and its hilarious that you did.

[Ice009]

I'll never agree. I disagree completely with your larger sample size averages evening out.

2006 playoffs Spurs Vs Mavs - Brent Barry didn't want to shoot the ball at times in games where we needed him to. He wanted nothing to do with it (even though he's one of the best shooters in the NBA), he didn't want to shoot the ball. I wanted him traded because of him not shooting the ball. He looked scared to at times. Usually, that was in big games.

2011 NBA finals. Lebron James pissed his pants in the 4th quarters of pretty much all those games. Lebron James also looked scared for quite a few years in Cleveland during crunch time and didn't want to shoot the ball with the game on the line numerous times over the years. It's taken him years to improve on that and get over it. Flip that over to Kobe Bryant. The guy never showed any fear taking big shots from the get go with the game on the line. He might not have made many of them, but he shot them with no fear at all since day one of him being in the NBA.

2013 NBA finals. I hate saying this one, but where is that picture of Kawhi? Does he not look shit scared before shooting those free throws?

[MaNu4Tres]

I'll never agree. I disagree completely with your larger sample size averages evening out.

2006 playoffs Spurs Vs Mavs - Brent Barry didn't want to shoot the ball at times in games where we needed him to. He wanted nothing to do with it (even though he's one of the best shooters in the NBA), he didn't want to shoot the ball. I wanted him traded because of him not shooting the ball. He looked scared to at times. Usually, that was in big games.

2011 NBA finals. Lebron James pissed his pants in the 4th quarters of pretty much all those games. Lebron James also looked scared for quite a few years in Cleveland during crunch time and didn't want to shoot the ball with the game on the line numerous times over the years. It's taken him years to improve on that and get over it. Flip that over to Kobe Bryant. The guy never showed any fear taking big shots from the get go with the game on the line. He might not have made many of them, but he shot them with no fear at all since day one of him being in the NBA.

2013 NBA finals. I hate saying this one, but where is that picture of Kawhi? Does he not look shit scared before shooting those free throws?

You don't have to agree. Again, you're pinpointing single moments players didn't come through, but those same players have came through on other occasions.

I'll never believe in players having a clutch gene or being clutch like Skip Bayliss says. Players are who they are -- all great players will come through on occassion and they'll also fail on occasion as well ( make or miss league -- doesn't mean they're clutch or unclutch just after 1 series or 1 game). Successful moments comes with expanded opportunities.

[Kawhitstorm]

This means over the long run, or over a large sample for those people who can't read
..

Comparing championship pressure to regular season pressure is comparing apples to oranges. :sleep

Chris Webber had TWO moments in his career where he had a chance to win a championship & he melted under pressure in both cases when things got tight. He never learned from his failures & redeem himself unlike Dirk/LeBron who both admitted to succumbing under immense pressure.

If you want more sample sizes of Webber short comings in the postseason then look no further than him losing EVERY winner-take-all game in his career (college & pros) which are littered by pitiful performances rather than POSITIVELY memorable ones.:lol

[MaNu4Tres]

Comparing championship pressure to regular season pressure is comparing apples to oranges. :sleep

Chris Webber had TWO moments in his career where he had a chance to win a championship & he melted under pressure in both cases when things got tight. He never learned from his failures & redeem himself unlike Dirk/LeBron who both admitted to succumbing under immense pressure.

If you want more sample sizes of Webber short comings in the postseason then look no further than him losing EVERY winner-take-all game in his career (college & pros) while not putting up any memorable fight.:lol

Yeah because shortcomings ( in regards to Team oriented W's and L's) are not team oriented at all. :lol

One of those moments he was dribbling the ball up the court ( something he's not used to doing).

The other time was when he was facing Shaq and Kobe in their mega prime days in the WCF. During this epic series, Webber averaged 24 and 10 on 53% shooting, taking the one of the best teams in NBA History to an OT in a 7th game. OMG he's so unclutch!!!

No substance behind your clutch or unclutch gene theory, no facts over the long run prove what you're saying. Instead, you pinpoint specific one time moments of A game, or A series when players miss or make a mistake, even though the same players have executed or made shots on other occasions.:lol

What other game or series do you want to bring up when a player failed to prove your point -- which based around such a small irrelevant sample size?

[Kawhitstorm]

Yeah because shortcomings ( in regards to Team oriented W's and L's) are not team oriented at all. :lol
He was being carried by Mike "Never been an All-Star" Bibby in the 4th quarter/OT of Gm 7. :wakeup

Webber's shooting percentage in winners-takes-all games is 38% & much worse in crunch time.:lol


One of those moments he was dribbling the ball up the court ( something he's not used to doing).

Yeah, the guy that was famous for taking it coast-to-coast wasn't used to dribbling the ball up the court.:lmao

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The other time was when he was facing Shaq and Kobe in their mega prime days in the WCF. During this epic series, Webber averaged 24 and 10 on 53% shooting, taking the one of the best teams in NBA History to an OT in a 7th game. OMG he's so unclutch!!!

Bruh, he averaged 24/10 on 53% shooting then turned into a potato in the 4th quarter & OT of Gm 7 which actually supports my argument. If he was struggling throughout the series then that would be one thing but dude disappears in the high stakes games & loses his composure at the wrong moment during those games.

[MaNu4Tres]

He was being carried by Mike "Never been an All-Star" Bibby in the 4th quarter/OT of Gm 7. :wakeup

Webber's shooting percentage in winners-takes-all games is 38% & much worse in crunch time.:lol



Yeah, the guy that was famous for taking it coast-to-coast wasn't used to dribbling the ball up the court.:lmao

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Bruh, he averaged 24/10 on 53% shooting then turned into a potato in the 4th quarter & OT of Gm 7 which actually supports my argument. If he was struggling throughout the series then that would be one thing but dude disappears in the high stakes games & loses his composure at the wrong moment during those games.


You keep pinpointing to one game or one situation (a very small sample size), which is horrible to base end all conclusions off of. This is going in circles, its not worth the time.

You believe in players having a clutch gene. I'm not going to try to change the way you think. You and Skip Bayliss need to share a room though.. tbh..

Have a good day.

[Ice009]

Comparing championship pressure to regular season pressure is comparing apples to oranges. :sleep

Chris Webber had TWO moments in his career where he had a chance to win a championship & he melted under pressure in both cases when things got tight. He never learned from his failures & redeem himself unlike Dirk/LeBron who both admitted to succumbing under immense pressure.

If you want more sample sizes of Webber short comings in the postseason then look no further than him losing EVERY winner-take-all game in his career (college & pros) which are littered by pitiful performances rather than POSITIVELY memorable ones.:lol

Did Lebron actually admit it? That's good to hear because I could almost literally saw him pissing his pants numerous times in pressure situations. That's why I never rated him in the top 10 players ever until recently. He has certainly improved, but he still could be 1-6 in the finals if not for the Spurs handing that 2013 Championship to Miami and Draymond not fucking up last season.

[Kawhitstorm]

You keep pinpointing to one game or one situation (a very small sample size), which is horrible to base end all conclusions off of. This is going in circles, its not worth the time.

:cryBut...but...but....it doesn't fit my narrative.:cry

It's one thing to lose via random circumstances or lacking the prerequisite supporting cast it's another when you're pulling the same shrinkage trick for a decade no matter the supporting cast as an amateur & pro.:lol


You believe in players having a clutch gene. I'm not going to try to change the way you think. You and Skip Bayliss need to share a room though.. tbh..

Have a good day.

You have a reading comprehension issue since I never claimed in the "clutch gene" theory but rather some players stay composed in pressure situation (clutch) while some don't (chokers).

[YGWHI]

Even when Kawhi's FG% dropped a bit in the clutch time after the game in Atlanta, he remains as one of the most efficient scorers in those situations.
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I would think that for most players, +/- 3% is a big deal, especially as you get closer to 50%.
Not sure if they care about that. After all, only 2 of TOP 10 scorers are shooting .50%, the other 8...Russ. 42%, Davis .48%, Cousins .45%, Harden .44%, Thomas .45%, DeRozan .46%, Lillard .45%, Butler .45%

[Kawhitstorm]

817803536989847554

Curry/LeBron aren't even the primary options during crunch-time.:lol (Kyrie/Dominos)

...making Kawhi the most clutch primary option.:toast

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Kawhi should have shot it over bellybedova. Big players make big shots in big games.