This is the worst Spurs defense in 20 seasons after 20 games played..

[spursistan]

and the 8th worst in the last 34 years..

https://s14.postimg.org/6wxwbx38h/Spurs_D.jpg
https://s16.postimg.org/wl8k1ml2d/Spurs_D1.jpg

So far, this team is even managing the terrible feat of sucking more on that end of the floor than in those dark years of 2009-2011..

Yeah, Timmy, even diminished by his knees, was still such monster anchor down low that Gasol can't/won't hold a candle to.But it is time to lay some of the blame on Wing-stop; they have been getting lit up more often by opposing PGs/wings (we're slumping more even after DG return)..

Kawhi can kiss goodbye to his DPOY if he and the team don't pick it up soon..

[dabom]

Spurs don't give a shit about defense.

[K...]

Well losing a top 5 all time talent does weird stuff. as does having 40 yr old guards, but whatever, being average is no sin.

[sasaint]

and the 8th worst in the last 34 years..

https://s14.postimg.org/6wxwbx38h/Spurs_D.jpg
https://s16.postimg.org/wl8k1ml2d/Spurs_D1.jpg

So far, this team is even managing the terrible feat of sucking more on that end of the floor than in those dark years of 2009-2011..

Yeah, Timmy, even diminished by his knees, was still such monster anchor down low that Gasol can't/won't hold a candle to.But it is time to lay some of the blame on Wing-stop; they have been getting lit up so often by other opposing PGs/wings (we're slumping more even after DG return)..

Kawhi can kiss goodbye to his DPOY if he and the team don't pick it up soon..

Pop has piled Kawhi's plate too high for him to carry the additional offensive burden AND play defense at a DPOY-level. The optimal Kawhi was the Kawhi of autumn 2015.

[TrainOfThought5]

Pop has piled Kawhi's plate too high for him to carry the additional offensive burden AND play defense at a DPOY-level. The optimal Kawhi was the Kawhi of autumn 2015.

Having Timmy behind Wingstop was a big reason why wingstop is wingstop. Right now theyre lookin like drive-thru.

[sasaint]

Having Timmy behind Wingstop was a big reason why wingstop is wingstop. Right now theyre lookin like drive-thru.

:lmao True.

[Astray]

Kiwitards will still say Kiwi deserved his DPOYs.

[spursistan]

Having Timmy behind Wingstop was a big reason why wingstop is wingstop. Right now theyre lookin like drive-thru.
:lol

[dabom]

Kiwitards will still say Kiwi deserved his DPOYs.

Guess Pop and Duncan are kiwitards. :lmao

Faggot. :lmao

[TimDunkem]

Kawhi does look slightly overburdened. He's not as sharp as he was even last year.

Then again, he's had to pick up the slack for Anderson (to start the season) and the rest of the guards.

[DeRozan m8]

Kiwitards will still say Kiwi deserved his DPOYs.

Disrespectful fgt

Tim retired because he became a liability

[SAGirl]

I am less enthused by this season than b4 it started.
I don't want to infect anyone with my pessimism, so I have been relatively quiet compared to my usual level of activity but even for me, a new fan of the last 4 season, I am very nostalgic about Tim and find it hard to enjoy this team at times. I haven't liked the turnstile that is Gasol and the lack of effort from LMA.

If you see me in game threads I am active, I am usually posting a picture of Tim blocking a layup. I miss him. This team is not going far in the playoffs without him.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/ce/c8/d7/cec8d79b8ddf1afee939128121876b17.jpg
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/San+Antonio+Spurs+v+Los+Angeles+Clippers+Game+L7mi _6kTCSQl.jpg
https://www.sportsposterwarehouse.com/catImages/lebronblocksduncan13pf-1.jpg

Tim was just incredible on defense. His timing on blocks and help defense was uncanny. This team doesn't have that unfortunately and it's anyone's guess if Pop will make adjustments to the big rotation or any tweaks. He has to know a 13th rank defense is not going to do much overall and that Manu is not going to be having flashback games in the playoffs to bail out the starters.

[TD 21]

:lol At the idiots who thought Gasol could essentially replicate Duncan.

:lmao At the idiot who thought it would be fine when Green and Dedmon returned and that Splitter was ever the best defender on the team.

[RD2191]

Kawhi could win dpoy every year if he wasn't the #1 scoring option tbh. His defense has definitely taken a hit with his new responsibilities on offense.

[Kawhitstorm]

If you adjust for the ridiculous league wide 3 point attempt rate this season then the defense is on par w/ the '10-'11 squads which overachieved & won 61 games. As much as that team was dependent on Manu, this team is just as much dependent on Kawhi. The final numbers for the '10-'11 squad actually mirror the number for the current squad through 20 games (ORtg/DRtg/SRS/Pace/PPG & point-differential isn't that far off either):

Record: 61-21, Finished 1st in NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011.html) Southwest DivisionCoach: Gregg Popovich (http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/popovgr99c.html) (61-21)PTS/G: 103.7 (6th of 30) Opp PTS/G: 98.0 (14th of 30)SRS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#srs): 5.86 (4th of 30) Pace (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#pace): 92.3 (14th of 30)Off Rtg (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#off_rtg): 111.8 (2nd of 30) Def Rtg (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#def_rtg): 105.6 (11th of 30)Expected W-L (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#wins_pyth): 56-26 (6th of 30)

Record: 16-4, 2nd in NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2017.html) Western ConferenceLast Game: W 107-105 vs. WAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201612020SAS.html)Next Game: Monday, Dec. 5 at MILCoach: Gregg Popovich (http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/popovgr99c.html) (16-4)PTS/G: 103.0 (19th of 30) Opp PTS/G: 98.2 (4th of 30)
SRS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#srs): 5.33 (4th of 30) Pace (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#pace): 93.1 (27th of 30)Off Rtg (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#off_rtg): 110.5 (6th of 30) Def Rtg (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#def_rtg): 105.4 (13th of 30)Expected W-L (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#wins_pyth): 13-7 (6th of 30)

The '10-'11 squad started 29-6 the current squad is one pace for a 28-7 start. '10-'11 was also the beginning of "super teams"::wow........too many parallels.
Let's just hope Pop doesn't trot out Kawhi for a meaningless season finale.:madrun

[Kawhitstorm]

:lol At the idiots who thought Gasol could essentially replicate Duncan.

:lmao At the idiot who thought it would be fine when Green and Dedmon returned and that Splitter was ever the best defender on the team.

Shitter's impact had to do w/ him replacing Bonner/Blair & TOSB McDyess.

[sasaint]

If you are Pop and you have Tim Duncan on your team, you can afford to err on the conservative-side. Now we shall see if Timmy's absence has any impact on Pop's typically conservative approach to personnel issues. I believe he will have to adapt his ways in personnel issues and in-game coaching moves. So far, if his in-game coaching is any indication, Pop doesn't seem willing and/or able to make the necessary changes. For instance, he is still the mad scientist despite the fact that the Spurs lack the TD margin of error. Moreover, when Manu was the 2nd/3rd best player on the team, Pop had no problem getting him to go to the 2nd unit - and even embrace the role. How will he handle Pau going forward? Or if an advantageous trade of LMA can be made, would he make it, or would he adhere to the Spurs' loyalty/family mantra?

[Plumblbw]

The defence has been awful without question. The personnel is part of the problem obviously, but there's a lot of things going wrong. They're switching a lot, particularly on the pick and roll, and there is a lot of miscommunication. Kawhi may have regressed slightly due to the offensive load, but he's also having to over help. I noticed quite a few plays where Kawhi is on the weak side with his man camped in the corner and they run a 1-5 pick n' roll on the strong side against Parker and Gasol. As soon as the play runs Kawhi already has one foot in the paint and he can't recover in time for the kick out. I think it's obvious he thinks the rim protection is ass and is trying to cover up for these clowns.

[spurtech09]

Tim Duncan will be missed.....Even at Tim's age he could still get it done.....

[SuperCam]

Tim carried a lot of players and coaches, what's new tbh. The last two DPOY and last FMVP trophy were just another byproduct of Tim's play, and now without him to carry the team those same players and coaches are getting exposed...

[bklynspursfan]

Ok, well here's the other side:

They're 16-4, with this poor defense. They're also 8th in SOS and 4th in SRS.

So, assuming the defense improves a bit, and they clean up some of the offensive issues, (6th in ORTG already), then I guess that should be encouraging to know there's room to improve.

They won't be what they were the last 20 years. But think about the competition this year. There's no one shutting teams down and also amazing offensively.

I know it's lower standards for us because we've been dominant defensively for so long and we're probably spoiled. But we aren't exactly far off from the other top teams, and we've yet to peak . And people can be pessimistic about the team I get it, but honestly I feel pretty optimistic.

[SAGirl]

If you are Pop and you have Tim Duncan on your team, you can afford to err on the conservative-side. Now we shall see if Timmy's absence has any impact on Pop's typically conservative approach to personnel issues. I believe he will have to adapt his ways in personnel issues and in-game coaching moves. So far, if his in-game coaching is any indication, Pop doesn't seem willing and/or able to make the necessary changes. For instance, he is still the mad scientist despite the fact that the Spurs lack the TD margin of error. Moreover, when Manu was the 2nd/3rd best player on the team, Pop had no problem getting him to go to the 2nd unit - and even embrace the role. How will he handle Pau going forward? Or if an advantageous trade of LMA can be made, would he make it, or would he adhere to the Spurs' loyalty/family mantra?

They will stick with loyalty... look at Tony and Manu...

What makes me a bit more pessimistic is knowing both Tony and Pau are here for the season after this one too (unless Pop pisses off Pau and that is very unlikely).

This is too old a group to pair with Kiwi. LMA is fool's gold too. I agree with you Kiwi has too much on his plate. Isn't his defense starting to resemble Jimmy Butler's from last season, who declined overall on defense and was a shade of himself playing next to THIS Pau?/smh... Pau led Chicago into the lottery last season! Butler has had a renaissance without Pau.

[sasaint]

They will stick with loyalty... look at Tony and Manu...

What makes me a bit more pessimistic is knowing both Tony and Pau are here for the season after this one too (unless Pop pisses off Pau and that is very unlikely).

This is too old a group to pair with Kiwi. LMA is fool's gold too. I agree with you Kiwi has too much on his plate. Isn't his defense starting to resemble Jimmy Butler's from last season, who declined overall on defense and was a shade of himself playing next to THIS Pau?/smh... Pau led Chicago into the lottery last season! Butler has had a renaissance without Pau.

I cling to the shred of hope that Tony and Manu have MORE THAN A DECADE with the Spurs to contrast with the brief tenure of LMA and Gasol... :depressed And to the hope that Pop will see the absolute necessity of doing something pretty radical if the Spurs hope to avoid wasting Kawhi's prime - and also forcing him into a role/usage rate to which I believe he is not best suited - not to mention fooling themselves about this season (and next, assuming I am correct about "paycheck Pau"). My fear is that in a couple of seasons the team's fortunes could fall off a cliff.

But anybody who thinks that Pau will opt out with any realistic hope of getting paid more is clinging to an even flimsier shred of hope than I.

[Hoops Czar]

Shitter's impact had to do w/ him replacing Bonner/Blair & TOSB McDyess.

Inb4 someone blames Pau's help defense for the reason why the Spurs are allowing their opponents to shoot 35% (15th in league) from behind the arc compared to just 32.8% (1st in league) last year. :lol

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Having Timmy behind Wingstop was a big reason why wingstop is wingstop. Right now theyre lookin like drive-thru.

Daaaaaaaayum:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

Inb4 someone blames Pau's help defense for the reason why the Spurs are allowing their opponents to shoot 35% (15th in league) from behind the arc compared to just 32.8% (1st in league) last year. :lol

If perimeter defenders don't trust their help defense then they can't play tight which gives shooters air space.:wakeup

[skin27]

Who cares about defense in today's game!!! As long as we're good offensively and hit clutch shots in the playoffs we'll be fine!!! No team today has played defense ,look at the pts allowed of all the teams almost 100pts

[100%duncan]

Ok, well here's the other side:

They're 16-4, with this poor defense. They're also 8th in SOS and 4th in SRS.

So, assuming the defense improves a bit, and they clean up some of the offensive issues, (6th in ORTG already), then I guess that should be encouraging to know there's room to improve.

They won't be what they were the last 20 years. But think about the competition this year. There's no one shutting teams down and also amazing offensively.

I know it's lower standards for us because we've been dominant defensively for so long and we're probably spoiled. But we aren't exactly far off from the other top teams, and we've yet to peak . And people can be pessimistic about the team I get it, but honestly I feel pretty optimistic.

Why do you always speak of the record in all threads? The record means jack when the only relevant teams we've played are the Warriors and Clippers. One game was a total assrape on our homecourt mind you and the other is hard to judge whether we really give the warriors a match-up liability or was it a one time thing. Don't get me wrong, I think we are a match-up problem for the Warriors but that's literally been the only game that we have looked good against a contender, probably the best team in the league. The other game was just an absolute rape, granted that Danny was still injured but still that was very discouraging to watch. The next 2 sets of games who are remotely of the same importance are the 2 rox games, and we split them with the fucking rockets, a pretender (4th-6th seed) at best.

So now you have 2 games that matter. The other 18 games don't mean much on how good we are especially since we are struggling against shit teams. Which means that the record, for better or for worse, doesn't mean a whole lot.

This is a neutral post. I for one, think we have many weaknesses but a 2nd half of the season Lamarcus might change that. But also, it doesn't take away the fact that this team is struggling to find any sort of identity right now. All in all, things don't look bad, but it doesn't look good either. We have the makings of a contender if things fall into place but this is not a situation a fan wishing for a ring should be happy about, good record or not.

[tenbeersbold]

Yeah I can only imagine if Timmy came back for two more years playing 12-15 minutes a night off the bench.D would be solid and he'd have time to mentor Dedmon on all his knowledge of player tendencies.
That might be the most important knowledge lost defensively.
Tim had 19 years of studying the best players tendencies that's why his D was unearthly,not because of his athleticism but because he could predict at a high rate what the offensive player was gonna do

[Mal]

No shit, if Duncan is being replaced by 3 guys, not known for their defensive abilities.

[Mal]

https://www.sportsposterwarehouse.com/catImages/lebronblocksduncan13pf-1.jpg


This is Duncan being blocked :lmao

https://www.sportsposterwarehouse.com/catImages/lebronblocksduncan13pf-1.jpg

[benefactor]

Spurs will be fine tbh.

[NameLess Scrub]

Yeah I can only imagine if Timmy came back for two more years playing 12-15 minutes a night off the bench.D would be solid and he'd have time to mentor Dedmon on all his knowledge of player tendencies.
That might be the most important knowledge lost defensively.
Tim had 19 years of studying the best players tendencies that's why his D was unearthly,not because of his athleticism but because he could predict at a high rate what the offensive player was gonna do

I wish he could coach them up now, even retired.

[raybies]

Balance is key as most know, but I'd rather have a better offense than defense in this era of ball. As long as we are able to get some stops at the end.

[bklynspursfan]

Why do you always speak of the record in all threads? The record means jack when the only relevant teams we've played are the Warriors and Clippers. One game was a total assrape on our homecourt mind you and the other is hard to judge whether we really give the warriors a match-up liability or was it a one time thing. Don't get me wrong, I think we are a match-up problem for the Warriors but that's literally been the only game that we have looked good against a contender, probably the best team in the league. The other game was just an absolute rape, granted that Danny was still injured but still that was very discouraging to watch. The next 2 sets of games who are remotely of the same importance are the 2 rox games, and we split them with the fucking rockets, a pretender (4th-6th seed) at best.

So now you have 2 games that matter. The other 18 games don't mean much on how good we are especially since we are struggling against shit teams. Which means that the record, for better or for worse, doesn't mean a whole lot.

This is a neutral post. I for one, think we have many weaknesses but a 2nd half of the season Lamarcus might change that. But also, it doesn't take away the fact that this team is struggling to find any sort of identity right now. All in all, things don't look bad, but it doesn't look good either. We have the makings of a contender if things fall into place but this is not a situation a fan wishing for a ring should be happy about, good record or not.

Why? Because it's a reminder that despite our obvious struggles, we are finding ways to win games. The Clips just got embarrassed by the Pacers, once without Paul George, and again at home last night, being outscored by 18 in the 3rd. I mean things happen. Re: The Clips, I do want to see us with Danny playing, and while it was an ugly game overall, Aldridge and Leonard were a combined 10-26 that game vs the Clips, Parker was out, Anderson was starting, Mills was starting, etc... The bench is playing better now than it was 7 games in when we lost. I think they will learn from it just as they did when they played the Rox and the Jazz the 2nd time. Both came into SA and won, and we responded on the road with 2 wins, that we were in control of most of the game.

I agree 100% with your last paragraph. Things don't look bad like many make it seem, but we are far from where we need to be. I guess that's where I think we'll improve. LMA didn't get going until like January last year, so hopefully he picks it up again.

I guess I just think despite our obvious struggles, why do people need to cliff jump? We knew heading into this season there would be lots of ?'s with the roster changes and TD gone now. We knew the defense would take a hit, and like I said, what team in the league is a force on both ends at this point? IMO, there really isn't a team head and shoulders above the rest at this point.

If we still look like this in 2 months, then yea it'll suck and look like we're headed for an early exit. But I honestly don't see that happening, I think they'll continue to improve

[313]

Having Timmy behind Wingstop was a big reason why wingstop is wingstop. Right now theyre lookin like drive-thru.
:lmao

[HarlemHeat37]

Too early to be concerned..defensive chemistry is almost as important as offensive, tbh..the Spurs replaced their defensive coordinator/anchor and added a bunch of new faces, it'll take a few months to get it together..

Outside of the chemistry issues, the dropoff from Gasol to Duncan has been the biggest reason for the decline..

Post-up
Duncan: 107 instances, 0.7 PPP
Gasol: 16 instances, 0.89 PPP

Roll man
Duncan: 47 instances, 0.72 PPP
Gasol: 10 instances, 1 PPP

ISO
Duncan: 47 instances, 0.6 PPP
Gasol: 23 instances, 0.91 PPP

Small sample size and still plenty of time to turn it around..

I don't think it helps that Pop rests them so much, though..this team needs chemistry more than any past team, they don't have the continuity of the "big 3" Spurs teams..can't expect Pau and Aldridge to learn to play together when he's resting 1 of them every other game..

[Raven]

it is pretty visible. Playing KA would help a bit, playing David Lee is like shooting yourself in the foot.

[HarlemHeat37]

There's also some bad luck factor that will positively regress, tbh..Spurs are 7th in the NBA at contesting 3-point shots, yet they've been in the worse half of the league in 3-point % allowed..it's pretty typical to get fluky results this early in the season(I think it was last year's Mavs that had a top 10 defense for the 1st quarter of the season, largely due to opponents shooting horribly against them on wide open jump shots)..

I don't think it'll finish in the top 3, since the falloff from Duncan to no-chemistry Gasol is egregious, and Parker is still a huge defensive liability, but still, they should easily finish anywhere from 4-8 IMO..if they still suck halfway through the season, I'll be concerned(not that I think they're a real contender, anyways, I don't)..

[Horse]

Dedmon can certainly help especially with the starters. But the bigger issue is with a different lineup everynight how do we really know much about this team.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Too early to be concerned..defensive chemistry is almost as important as offensive, tbh..the Spurs replaced their defensive coordinator/anchor and added a bunch of new faces, it'll take a few months to get it together..

Outside of the chemistry issues, the dropoff from Gasol to Duncan has been the biggest reason for the decline..

Post-up
Duncan: 107 instances, 0.7 PPP
Gasol: 16 instances, 0.89 PPP

Roll man
Duncan: 47 instances, 0.72 PPP
Gasol: 10 instances, 1 PPP

ISO
Duncan: 47 instances, 0.6 PPP
Gasol: 23 instances, 0.91 PPP

Small sample size and still plenty of time to turn it around..

I don't think it helps that Pop rests them so much, though..this team needs chemistry more than any past team, they don't have the continuity of the "big 3" Spurs teams..can't expect Pau and Aldridge to learn to play together when he's resting 1 of them every other game..

But you think with so many minus defenders on the roster the Spurs can still finish top 5 defensively? Kawhi I think has regressed a bit defensively (I blame it on him having to carry more of the offensive load than ever) and Gasol/Parker/Mills are all crummy defenders.

[HarlemHeat37]

^^I don't think they'll finish in the top 5, but I'd be very surprised if they finish outside of the top 10..

Gasol isn't nearly as bad on defense as he has been, so far IMO..I think they'll improve when/if Pop stops resting him so much, build some continuity with the starters..

[GSH]

^^I don't think they'll finish in the top 5, but I'd be very surprised if they finish outside of the top 10..

Gasol isn't nearly as bad on defense as he has been, so far IMO..I think they'll improve when/if Pop stops resting him so much, build some continuity with the starters..


Top 10 defense probably isn't going to get it done. Westbrook had his 6th triple-double in a row tonight, and Klay dropped 60 points on the Pacers.

The Dubs have three guys who can drop 50+ on any given night. The Spurs' best player has a career high of 33. We aren't going to beat them by matching offense - they're going to have to play great team defense.

The fire I saw out of Dedmon tonight needs to be contagious. That video clip that someone posted of Pau playing matador in the paint? That's a second round exit waiting to happen.

[YGWHI]

The fire I saw out of Dedmon tonight needs to be contagious. That video clip that someone posted of Pau playing matador in the paint? That's a second round exit waiting to happen.

It was tonight. LMA had his best defensive performance of the season, Kawhi was taking pride on the defensive end again...Spurs just needed a bit more of Danny in last games but he'll be fine.

Loved how Giannis said that Kawhi was on him in the last play and had to give away the ball..."I saw Kawhi Leonard...I saw Kawhi Leonard coming..." Kawhi everywhere :tu
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cy939T0UcAAYu7Y.jpg:large
https://twitter.com/eric_nehm/status/805994760611762176

This team can improve defensively, it depends on how much Pop hides Pau/Parker/Patty weaknesses because the rest are good-overall defenders.

[itzsoweezee]

It's the Pau Gasol effect. Ask any Bulls fan.

[Kawhitstorm]

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2016/1205/SpursBPI.PNG&cquality=80

[GSH]

It was tonight. LMA had his best defensive performance of the season, Kawhi was taking pride on the defensive end again...Spurs just needed a bit more of Danny in last games but he'll be fine.

Loved how Giannis said that Kawhi was on him in the last play and had to give away the ball..."I saw Kawhi Leonard...I saw Kawhi Leonard coming..." Kawhi everywhere :tu
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cy939T0UcAAYu7Y.jpg:large


I think Gianni better watch the video of that play. It was Manu that stopped him on that play. He saw Dedmon about to get caught up on a screen, and made the decision to switch super-early, so he was able to get out and body up on the Freak beyond the 3P line and keep him from turning the corner toward the basket. Then Ante re-loaded, and Manu showed some incredible lateral quickness to get in front of him again, and cut him off. Ante turned at the last instant, and backed into Manu, and probably should have drawn the charge. (I've looked at it several times, and Manu didn't flop - Ante assed into him when his feet were planted.)

THEN Kawhi came over and picked up Ante, from the right side. But Kawhi was sideways, and had his arms up to prevent a pass to the right corner. Ante would have blown past him EASILY and gotten a dunk, but Manu was laying on the court in front of him, where he had been knocked down. Kawhi kept Ante from going right, but he would have had a clear lane to the rim if not for Manu's body in front of him to the left. I'm not saying did that part on purpose, just that he absolutely would have gotten to the rim otherwise.

Of course, he knows if it was Kawhi's presence that made him get rid of the ball. But if not for Manu's great defense before that, it wouldn't have mattered. That was pretty damned good defensive effort from the old man.

[YGWHI]

I think Gianni better watch the video of that play...Of course, he knows if it was Kawhi's presence that made him get rid of the ball. But if not for Manu's great defense before that, it wouldn't have mattered. That was pretty damned good defensive effort from the old man.

Obviously, defense is a team effort, but we shouldn't underestimate the Kawhi's D effect on young players like Giannis or Wiggins.

Doesn't matter if Manu or any other Spurs player is there, they only see Kawhi.

[YGWHI]

I mean, it doesn't matter for them.

But our guys working together, doing a great defensive job in a play, it's huge for us.

[tholdren]

Spurs gave defense up when they signed LMA. They underlined it when they signed GAYSOFT.

[HarlemHeat37]

They have jumped to 8th(previously middle of the pack), defensively, as expected:tu

Hopefully the chemistry with Gasol continues to improve enough to finish in the top 5..

[Kawhitstorm]

They have jumped to 8th(previously middle of the pack), defensively, as expected:tu

Hopefully the chemistry with Gasol continues to improve enough to finish in the top 5..

They have played a bunch of mediocre offenses the past 2 weeks, tbh.

-Wizard x2
-Magic
-Bulls
-Mavs
-Bucks

Wolves were the only team w/ a top 10 offense but Kawhi/LMA shut down KAT/Wiggins.

Pau made Robin Lopez & Gortat seem like Moses Malone, no amount of chemistry is going to solve his softness or lack of lateral movement.:rolleyes It was Dedmon that shutdown the Bucks while Pau was waving in Jabari/Giannis to the rim. LMA/Kawhi have picked it up but that's about it.

[TD 21]

Pau made Robin Lopez & Gortat seem like Moses Malone, no amount of chemistry is going to solve his softness or lack of lateral movement.:rolleyes It was Dedmon that shutdown the Bucks while Pau was waving in Jabari/Giannis to the rim. LMA/Kawhi have picked it up but that's about it.

One takeaway from this post is that folks are changing their narrative about Kawhi having enough around him to contend.

[Kawhitstorm]

One takeaway from this post is that folks are changing their narrative about Kawhi having enough around him to contend.
:bobo

[spursistan]

808451024423882752
808451425890172932

:vomit:

[spursistan]

They have jumped back all the way back to 4th in the Def-rating ranking, but it was mostly against below average/mediocre opposition..

The real test will be next week when they face the high-octane offenses of Houston (3rd OffRtg), Clippers (5th OffRtg) , Portland (8th OffRtg) on the trot, all on the road..

[dabom]

News flash. Everyone has also played those shitty teams. :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

Here are some Spurs-related #s 1/4 through the season..obviously a tiny sample size + starters defend other starters and bench guys defend the opposing bench, which should be taken into consideration, of course(sorry for the shitty quality, uploaded on my phone:lol)

Filtered for possessions played, too, fyi..

Top ISO defenders in the league:

http://i63.tinypic.com/14j9jyx.jpg

Worst post defenders:
http://i63.tinypic.com/c43s9.jpg

Worst pick&roll ball-handler defenders:
http://i64.tinypic.com/35ibole.jpg

Worst pick&roll roll man defenders:
http://i66.tinypic.com/j6mx45.jpg

[SAGirl]

Thanks for sharing Harlem.

Pau and Tony... basically what we knew... yikes!

[r0drig0lac]

Here are some Spurs-related #s 1/4 through the season..obviously a tiny sample size + starters defend other starters and bench guys defend the opposing bench, which should be taken into consideration, of course(sorry for the shitty quality, uploaded on my phone:lol)

Filtered for possessions played, too, fyi..

Top ISO defenders in the league:

http://i63.tinypic.com/14j9jyx.jpg

Worst post defenders:
http://i63.tinypic.com/c43s9.jpg

Worst pick&roll ball-handler defenders:
http://i64.tinypic.com/35ibole.jpg

Worst pick&roll roll man defenders:
http://i66.tinypic.com/j6mx45.jpg

damn, this is bad

[YGWHI]

Worst pick&roll ball-handler defenders:
http://i64.tinypic.com/35ibole.jpg


It seems like the Spurs have problem...

810965820146913280

[DAF86]

Conley might have been worth it afterall, tbh.

[Hoops Czar]

It seems like the Spurs have problem...

I suppose Cleveland has a problem too.

[Kawhitstorm]

Worst pick&roll ball-handler defenders:
http://i64.tinypic.com/35ibole.jpg




Mr. 3 & D, Tony Snell:lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

It seems like the Spurs have problem...

810965820146913280

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot//patty_mills_three_deal_070214.jpg

[HarlemHeat37]

One of the fattest PGs in the NBA(makes Tony look fit) destroying Pau in the pick&roll, as expected:lol

[313]

Here are some Spurs-related #s 1/4 through the season..obviously a tiny sample size + starters defend other starters and bench guys defend the opposing bench, which should be taken into consideration, of course(sorry for the shitty quality, uploaded on my phone:lol)

Filtered for possessions played, too, fyi..

Top ISO defenders in the league:

http://i63.tinypic.com/14j9jyx.jpg

Worst post defenders:
http://i63.tinypic.com/c43s9.jpg

Worst pick&roll ball-handler defenders:
http://i64.tinypic.com/35ibole.jpg

Worst pick&roll roll man defenders:
http://i66.tinypic.com/j6mx45.jpgDanny on ball defense > Kawhi

thanks for confirming

[itzsoweezee]

The pick and roll defense is an absolute horror show.

Any chance Popovich figures out he can't play the geriatrics in the lineup at the same time. Pau, Tony, and LMA together is going to get fucking picked apart easily by a good team.

[YGWHI]

The pick and roll defense is an absolute horror show.

Any chance Popovich figures out he can't play the geriatrics in the lineup at the same time. Pau, Tony, and LMA together is going to get fucking picked apart easily by a good team.

Damn...This fact is too evident and Pop still refuses to make a change. :bang

[spursistan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0Vi1nLUcAABEIF.jpg

[YGWHI]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0Vi1nLUcAABEIF.jpg

:shootme

[YGWHI]

Spurs are 3rd in Defense per 100 possessions. :flag:



Games against Suns/Blazers/Bulls helped to improve Spurs defensive numbers...

[dabom]

Spurs are 3rd in Defense per 100 possessions. :flag:



Games against Suns/Blazers/Bulls helped to improve Spurs defensive numbers...

But kawhi lost a step and we should all blame him. :lmao

[bic50]

:claw

[YGWHI]

But kawhi lost a step and we should all blame him. :lmao

Media narrative on Kawhi 'but but he's hurting his team' because they're in campaign for Dray DPOY. But then...Cavs game happened.

Anyway, Spurs defense has a lot of flaws but Kawhi isn't one of them.

[dabom]

Media narrative on Kawhi 'but but he's hurting his team' because they're in campaign for Dray DPOY. But then...Cavs game happened.

Anyway, Spurs defense has a lot of flaws but Kawhi isn't one of them.
Chinook :lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

816980995836497923
816983704870539264

[Chinook]

It's all those bad defenders who are doing it.

[Fireball]

Spurs should be able to stay on top ... still no b2b over the next two weeks with the Cavs being the only considerable challenge

[Seventyniner]

Reading this board, you'd think the Spurs were around #10 on defense.

[dabom]

Reading this board, you'd think the Spurs were around #10 on defense.

The usual perpetrators. :lol

[MI21]

How the fuck can they be so high on D with Gasol/Parker getting significant minutes? :lol

Wingstop + last 2 weeks LMA have been absolute beasts lately.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Not only do they have the best defensive rating this season but their offensive rating is the best they've had in the last 20 years - they've never had such a good offensive rating in the Duncan years. It's also almost as good as during the 2014 playoff championship run.

All of this while having spacing issues and one of the worst starting 1-5 PnR defenders in the league. It shows this team is very talented and they may have a very high ceiling if they're able to keep these as the season progresses and carry it into the playoffs.

Also lol @ those bullshit articles about Kawhi's and the team's defense.

[Spur|n|Austin]

It's all those bad defenders who are doing it.

:lol

It's nice to see the D get progressively better, not an easy task with all the new faces.

[100%duncan]

Regular season numbers tho :lol

Goodluck with Gasol's defense in the playoffs

[Solid D]

Fortunately, the Spurs play a team scheme.

[Mr. Body]

Offensive numbers are extremely high league wide, so OP was misleading to begin with.

[Seventyniner]

Offensive numbers are extremely high league wide, so OP was misleading to begin with.

True. I like to look at ORtg and DRtg in terms of standard deviations away from the mean. Makes it possible to compare different seasons and even different eras.

[NASpurs]

And on the other side of the court... best offensive rating in team history:

http://i.imgur.com/wFUv8QU.png

[Kawhitstorm]

True. I like to look at ORtg and DRtg in terms of standard deviations away from the mean. Makes it possible to compare different seasons and even different eras.

Net rating is what matters the most::wakeup

If you are an elite defense but can't score then it means nothing, if you have an elite offense but can't get stops that also means nothing.

Factoring in the SOS, this team is on the same level as '11-'12 Spurs assuming Porker can somewhat maintain his current form.

[Cry Havoc]

Net rating is what matters the most::wakeup

If you are an elite defense but can't score then it means nothing

Worked pretty well for the Pistons in 03-04. No one would have considered that a great offense.

[Darius Bieber]

It seems like the Spurs have problem...

810965820146913280

We cannot be considered a legit contender if we have the worst starting PG in the west.

[bklynspursfan]

We cannot be considered a legit contender if we have the worst starting PG in the west.

Pretty sure he's not

[Darius Bieber]

Pretty sure he's not

Even if you're a Parker-lover, you've got to admit he's in the bottom-half. Even that isn't good enough to be considered a contender, especially in a league with an abundance of skilled PGs.

[Chinook]

According to TPA, Pau is the best Spur defensively: http://nbamath.com/tpa-database/nba-2016-17-tpa-scores/

Anderson, Leonard and Dedmon round out the top four.

[Chinook]

Total TPA has Kawhi, Gasol, Green, Patty and LMA as the top five.

[Cry Havoc]

We cannot be considered a legit contender if we have the worst starting PG in the west.

If Westbrook is listed as the best defensive PG in any chart, you can basically light that chart on fire and burn it and draw random names in the ashes. The ash-names will be more accurate than that chart is.

[DAF86]

3peat coming

[Chinook]

If Westbrook is listed as the best defensive PG in any chart, you can basically light that chart on fire and burn it and draw random names in the ashes. The ash-names will be more accurate than that chart is.

Here's the methodology: http://nbamath.com/tpa-model/

Can't say I'm a fan of that calculation. Straight Plus-Minus could probably be used this way, BPA? Pretty sure it's way too derivative. It ends up giving counter-intuitive answers. And I can't see what it is trying to do that VORP doesn't already do.

[Chinook]

My guy Briante Weber is second in the d-league (top for guys who are able to be called up) by this stat. It has him as the best defender by far. Wouldn't want to let a potential Beverly 2.0 go without at least getting a look.

[NameLess Scrub]

If Westbrook is listed as the best defensive PG in any chart, you can basically light that chart on fire and burn it and draw random names in the ashes. The ash-names will be more accurate than that chart is.

:lol :lol

[bklynspursfan]

Even if you're a Parker-lover, you've got to admit he's in the bottom-half. Even that isn't good enough to be considered a contender, especially in a league with an abundance of skilled PGs.

It's fine. If he plays close to how he has been, we'll be fine. We need to rely more on LMA and Kawhi showing up for TP's performance to matter.

[bklynspursfan]

If Westbrook is listed as the best defensive PG in any chart, you can basically light that chart on fire and burn it and draw random names in the ashes. The ash-names will be more accurate than that chart is.

Seriously!

[Cry Havoc]

It's fine. If he plays close to how he has been, we'll be fine. We need to rely more on LMA and Kawhi showing up for TP's performance to matter.

If he plays close to how he has been, he's a top 10 PG easily, probably a lot higher than that.

[Raven]

If Westbrook is listed as the best defensive PG in any chart, you can basically light that chart on fire and burn it and draw random names in the ashes. The ash-names will be more accurate than that chart is.

well westbrook is not a clutch defender, but most of the games are played in non clutch minutes, and there he can impact the D just with his length and athleticism. Considering his competitors are curry, kyrie, loliard and wall, it's pretty obvious he can be ranked at the top just doing what he does.

[lofds]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2017_ratings.html

Hilarious thing is that our defensive rating is the best in the league and we know we're playing trash defence. I mean this just shows that the standards aren't particularly high across the league for defence.

Hope the team actually gets their shit together and locks down properly. Imagine how the defensive rating would be with Duncan still playing!

[Kawhitstorm]

My guy Briante Weber is second in the d-league (top for guys who are able to be called up) by this stat. It has him as the best defender by far. Wouldn't want to let a potential Beverly 2.0 go without at least getting a look.

Weber is in the D-League b/c of his defense so he better be at the top of the list.

[Chinook]

Weber is in the D-League b/c of his defense so he better be at the top of the list.

He's at the top of the total list, not just defense. His defense is that high.

[Leetonidas]

Spurs now tops in defensive efficiency and our defense sucks :lol

:lol today's NBA

[SpursIndonesia]

If Westbrook is listed as the best defensive PG in any chart, you can basically light that chart on fire and burn it and draw random names in the ashes. The ash-names will be more accurate than that chart is.

Not to mention Harden is listed as no. 2 with more defensive point saved than Kawhi, that list must be straight out of bizarro world.

[Cry Havoc]

well westbrook is not a clutch defender, but most of the games are played in non clutch minutes, and there he can impact the D just with his length and athleticism. Considering his competitors are curry, kyrie, loliard and wall, it's pretty obvious he can be ranked at the top just doing what he does.

.... No.

[Chinook]

Russ is legit a good defensive PG. However, this stat is heavily based on box-score stats, so a guy like Russ who gets steals and blocks and especially D-boards is going to dominate. Consider him the Carlos Boozer of TPA

[spursistan]

definition of fools gold defense regardless of what the metrics say..

And no it is not only about Pau/Parker..Till the fuckin last second hilarious communication breakdowns leading to open 3s ..they are lucky Love was bricklayer extraordinaire tonight..

[HarlemHeat37]

Defense is down throughout the league, tbh, it's not just the Spurs..the prominence of the 3-point shot..

[bklynspursfan]

829686170611220481

[HarlemHeat37]

Pau's defensive struggles have been well-documented, but it's still a little surprising, since David Lee is even worse, defensively(he has played more minutes than Dedmon during this stretch)..

The overall defensive improvement isn't surprising, though, as Kawhi is Kawhi, Aldridge has been great(defensively) and Green's defense the past few weeks has been back to the level of previous years..

[SAGirl]

829686170611220481
hah!
Thanks for sharing. Dedmon has been impactful and Kyle getting minutes always will improve the defense, Davis has improved a lot too.
They have struggled offensively in some games, but that period includes games that Kawhi and others like Manu have been out too... and it has to be said... Lamarcus offensively has been :td in this period in a few games, as well as the Paddy Microwave apparently having the bulbs defective right now.

[SAGirl]

Pau's defensive struggles have been well-documented, but it's still a little surprising, since David Lee is even worse, defensively(he has played more minutes than Dedmon during this stretch)..

The overall defensive improvement isn't surprising, though, as Kawhi is Kawhi, Aldridge has been great(defensively) and Green's defense the past few weeks has been back to the level of previous years..
Kyle has played... my guy... still underrated by some.

[Dex]

Pau's defensive struggles have been well-documented, but it's still a little surprising, since David Lee is even worse, defensively(he has played more minutes than Dedmon during this stretch)..

The overall defensive improvement isn't surprising, though, as Kawhi is Kawhi, Aldridge has been great(defensively) and Green's defense the past few weeks has been back to the level of previous years..

I mean, the Spurs were like 4th in defense when he went out IIRC. Not defending Pau's defense because it's, well....atrocious. But it's not like they made a huge jump.

Going from 4th ranked offense to a 20th ranked offense is more of a concern imo.

[HarlemHeat37]

I mean, the Spurs were like 4th in defense when he went out IIRC. Not defending Pau's defense because it's, well....atrocious. But it's not like they made a huge jump.

Going from 4th ranked offense to a 20th ranked offense is more of a concern imo.

True, like I said, David Lee is even worse, defensively..

I don't like Pau's game, but he's an asset for the Spurs, especially vs. shitty teams(he feats vs. sub-500 teams)..he would be an asset in a potential playoff series vs. Memphis and Utah, too, since they don't have the player or style to exploit his defense..

[Horse]

I believe we're seeing more and more this team is not really gonna give a fuck till the playoffs. They lose focus too often. I mean how many times have we seen a first half where it's close or they're even trailing at the half only to come out and blow out whatever team they're playing.

[Dex]

I believe we're seeing more and more this team is not really gonna give a fuck till the playoffs. They lose focus too often. I mean how many times have we seen a first half where it's close or they're even trailing at the half only to come out and blow out whatever team they're playing.

:pop:

"Gotta make sure we stay under the radar"

[$pursDynasty]

True, like I said, David Lee is even worse, defensively..

I don't like Pau's game, but he's an asset for the Spurs, especially vs. shitty teams(he feats vs. sub-500 teams)..he would be an asset in a potential playoff series vs. Memphis and Utah, too, since they don't have the player or style to exploit his defense..
That is a good point ST used to roast D.Blair here but the fact that he ate up so many minutes in the regular season was great asset to the team and by the time the playoffs came depending on the matchup you wouldn't see him at all. If nothing else having Pau on the roster are less minutes we might need the KingSlayer to carry the team, and save minutes required for MVParker, Gino and LMAlpha to play during the regular season as well. Since LMA hasn't really dominated as the 2nd scoring option having another player that has played that role before helps to join the '2nd scoring option by committee' crew.

[dabom]

Kyle has played... my guy... still underrated by some.

Fathead is not a reason why the Spurs defense is better you stupid fuck. :lmao

[spursistan]

850800248087859200

Spurs' defense, despite an overall regression and a poor start, has been a more stable and consistent feature for the team performance than their offense..

850797815748067329