Prime Ginobili vs Prime Parker....If you had to choose one for this year's team..

[apalisoc_9]

Supposed you had the ability to magically make one of Ginobili and Parker a Player on his prime again..but Only for this year, who would you pick?

Remeber its only for this year so if you choose Parker he would revert back to shitty parker by next year.

We need a creator/penetrator..so either one makes sense.

Prime Ginobili once finished 10th in MVP voting and was a third Team all NBA player.

Parker best year was 5th in MVP voting and A second team All-NBA.

But those things dont matter since its going to be about need and who fits better with DPOY and first teamer Leonard, Aldridge and the rest of the guys.

Go.

[dabom]

No one would pick porker besides porker fans. We all know how Manu in his playoff prime was. :lol

[midnightpulp]

Manu by a landslide.

[TheGreatYacht]

Oh yea those 16ppg from Prime Manure... :lol

He'd probably foul Wardell on a three when we're up 2 tbh

[Robz4000]

Prime Parker would be perfect for this team right now.

[apalisoc_9]

Minute distribution would be interesting. I think with a Prime Ginobili, we can expect less minutes from Green or Maybe...Pop just decides to play him PG 85% of his minutes which should allw Mills/Green to play more minutes..

Manu would basically be the Main ball-handler and would most likely outscore Aldridge and become the second most in PPG...but Prime Manu did tend to contribute differently when there are other scorers..so

[DAF86]

You need good wings to go at GS, a bunch of them. Manu easily.

[TheGreatYacht]

MVParker owned Curry in the playoffs already

Prime Manure went toe to toe with RIP Hamilton :lol

[apalisoc_9]

Prime Parker would be perfect for this team right now.

Problem is, Prime Porker was a scorer more than anything so teams would just play the spurs defensively the same way. Pack the paint and limit the frontcourt.

Not like Parker can go supernova outside like Manu. But Parker would make for the easiest minite wise adjusment though. They wouldnt even need to change the SL, but mills will play less.

[Robz4000]

You need good wings to go at GS, a bunch of them. Manu easily.

Need a good PG to make Curry work on defense. Unless Pop would play prime Manu strictly at PG he'd take minutes away from Green who is huge against the Dubs. Prime Parker also uses to destroy CP3, which would help the Spurs against the Clips.

[spurraider21]

prime manu is always appealing because he was an excellent defender, too

[dabom]

Prime Manu was tearing up some of the best defenses ever assembled. :lol

Warrior defense. :lol

[DAF86]

Need a good PG to make Curry work on defense. Unless Pop would play prime Manu strictly at PG he'd take minutes away from Green who is huge against the Dubs. Prime Parker also uses to destroy CP3, which would help the Spurs against the Clips.

In my dream scenario Manu plays PG. Prime Parker is still a liability on D against this Warriors teams. Prime Manu, Green and Kawhi could switch anywhere on anyone.

[Robz4000]

Problem is, Prime Porker was a scorer more than anything so teams would just play the spurs defensively the same way. Pack the paint and limit the frontcourt.

Not like Parker can go supernova outside like Manu. But Parker would make for the easiest minite wise adjusment though. They wouldnt even need to change the SL, but mills will play less.

This team right now needs penetrating guards more than ever, and that was MVParker's specialty. His ability to drive opened up shooters which was why LDN was at his best during Parker's prime, so in essence we'd be getting MVParker and LDN at the same time.

[TheGreatYacht]

Problem is, Prime Porker was a scorer more than anything so teams would just play the spurs defensively the same way. Pack the paint and limit the frontcourt.

Not like Parker can go supernova outside like Manu. But Parker would make for the easiest minite wise adjusment though. They wouldnt even need to change the SL, but mills will play less.
The best APG Manure ever had in the playoffs was 6.0 (and 3.0TO)

Not exactly Nash in his prime.

[Robz4000]

In my dream scenario Manu plays PG. Prime Parker is still a liability on D against this Warriors teams. Prime Manu, Green and Kawhi could switch anywhere on anyone.

Like I said, if prime Manu was guaranteed to play strictly PG I'd prolly want him, but MVParker was a menace and we saw how he thrived in today's NBA.

[DAF86]

This team right now needs penetrating guards more than ever, and that was MVParker's specialty. His ability to drive opened up shooters which was why LDN was at his best during Parker's prime, so in essence we'd be getting MVParker and LDN at the same time.

Are you implying prime Manu isn't an elite penetrator as well?

[TheGreatYacht]

This team right now needs penetrating guards more than ever, and that was MVParker's specialty. His ability to drive opened up shooters which was why LDN was at his best during Parker's prime, so in essence we'd be getting MVParker and LDN at the same time.
Good point

[apalisoc_9]

This team right now needs penetrating guards more than ever, and that was MVParker's specialty. His ability to drive opened up shooters which was why LDN was at his best during Parker's prime, so in essence we'd be getting MVParker and LDN at the same time.

I get your point it does sound nice.

But you have to remeber, its for this year specifically. Parker would actually require a major change in the offensive system, He's elite with a legit rollman, while Manu was always better at handling the PnR with a Pick and Pop player.

I do think Parker can potentially turn this team into something much better than Prime Manu...but prime Manu requirs less tinkering with the system..just mlre tinkering with the minutes since he's going to be a ball handling wing.

[DAF86]

Better D, better passing, better 3pt shooting, just as good penetrating and finishing skills. To me is a no brainer, tbh.

[Robz4000]

Are you implying prime Manu isn't an elite penetrator as well?

He is and was, but MVParker was superior at finishing in the paint and better at the drive and kick. Prime Manu was a much better PnR and better at creating in general. The biggest thing for me, though, is we've already seen MVParker play with this team and how well he made things work. The minutes redistribution with MVParker would also be marginal at worst since Green/Kawhi/Simmons wouldn't be affected.

[dabom]

We won 2014 while porker was 0-14 or some shit. :lol

He shrunk like a midget in 2013.

Didn't he heroball us out in 2012?

:lol

Tony's prime. :lmao

[apalisoc_9]

He is and was, but MVParker was superior at finishing in the paint and better at the drive and kick. Prime Manu was a much better PnR and better at creating in general. The biggest thing for me, though, is we've already seen MVParker play with this team and how well he made things work. The minutes redistribution with MVParker would also be marginal at worst since Green/Kawhi/Simmons wouldn't be affected.

With how Mills is playing, Green..simmons, old Manu would actually lose minutes since Pop would be forced to play mills in his natural SG position. Making us virneable defensively.

[spurraider21]

Are you implying prime Manu isn't an elite penetrator as well?Parker is a next level penetrator, just ask the Barry's

[Clipper Nation]

Oh yea those 16ppg from Prime Manure... :lol

He'd probably foul Wardell on a three when we're up 2 tbh
Prime Porker would jack up more shots than Kawhi and single-handedly lose the series against the Dublets, tbh.

[Robz4000]

Parker is a next level penetrator, just ask the Barry's

:rollin

[dabom]

Parker was lucky Steph curry is made of glass and was playing injured that 2013 series. :lol

[Robz4000]

With how Mills is playing, Green..simmons, old Manu would actually lose minutes since Pop would be forced to play mills in his natural SG position. Making us virneable defensively.

Without Tim this team is vulnerable defensively regardless. Now if only the options included Prime Timmy :depressed...

[dabom]

He got locked up by thabo. :lol

[Robz4000]

Parker was lucky Steph curry is made of glass and was playing injured that 2013 series. :lol

:lol injured my ass. Curry just got shut down by LDN while Kawhi shut down Klay. That was the reason the Spurs took over the series following Game 2.

[apalisoc_9]

Without Tim this team is vulnerable defensively regardless. Now if only the options included Prime Timmy :depressed...

Its still a top 10 team defensive team...they can really play elite defense specially with Dedmon-Green-Leonard all in the same floor.

[dabom]

:lol injured my ass. Curry just got shut down by LDN while Kawhi shut down Klay. That was the reason the Spurs took over the series following Game 2.

He got injured trying to juck danny. I know. :lol

[Robz4000]

Its still a top 10 team defensive team...they can really play elite defense specially with Dedmon-Green-Leonard all in the same floor.

Top 10 on defense is nowhere near enough unless the offense becomes more fluid and unpredictable. If they keep with the same offense as last year and this year so far they won't get past the second round (or even the first if they see Houston or Utah).

[TheGreatYacht]

I'm trying to think of an elite player Ginosebleed outplayed in the playoffs... can't think of one. Only role players come to mind.

MVParker otoh has an impressive resume in the golden age of PG's..

[dabom]

I'm trying to think of an elite player Ginosebleed outplayed in the playoffs... can't think of one. Only role players come to mind.

MVParker otoh has an impressive resume in the golden age of PG's..

Getting cucked by a one legged player. :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

Getting cucked by a one legged player. :lol
lol deflecting

answer the first paragraph

[Clipper Nation]

MVParker otoh has an impressive resume in the golden age of PG's..

http://s5.postimg.org/rcwjg880n/RS_PO_BPM_differentials_worst.png

[Clipper Nation]

Porker's playoff resumé:


Might as well have all the data in one place.

http://s5.postimg.org/rey1k3i53/Parker_RS_PS_TS_Comparisons2.png

Just look at the dropoff in every advanced metric from season(RS) to post-season(PS).

19.0 PER RS
16.9 PER PS

.147 WS/48 RS
.085 WS/48 PS

109 ORtg RS
103 ORtg PS

.550 TS% RS
.515 TS% PS

32.7% Assist Percentage RS
27.7% Assist Percentage PS

1.2 BPM RS
0.2 BPM PS


This season's choke:

16.2 PER RS
15.1 PER PS

.142 WS/48 RS
.099 WS/48 PS

108 ORtg RS
103 ORtg PS

.546 TS% RS
.499 TS% PS

29.1% Assist Percentage RS
32.8% Assist Percentage PS (wow, he actually improved at something in the playoffs for once!)

0.1 BPM RS
-0.5 BPM PS


I've covered all this before. Absolute numbers distort relative impact. How about we organize the top 5 assist list by assists per game:

12.3 - Magic
10.1 - Stockon
8.8 - Nash
8.0 - Kidd
5.2 - Parker

:lol Parker's not in the same tier as those guy as a playmaker.

You brought up the top 10 points list. Lets look at the playoff efficiency(true shooting percentage) of all the players on that list(up to Tony) and see how Parker stacks up:

.568 - Jordan
.571 - Kareem
.541 - Kobe
.565 - Shaq
.550 - Duncan
.526 - Malone
.577 - Lebron
.541 - Jerry West
.498 - Havlicek
.551 - Bird
.515 - Parker

Everybody on that list has scored a lot of points in the playoffs on good efficiency. Except for the three bolded players. These three stand out as being considerably less efficient than the others. Malone is a reputed choke artist in the playoffs. His low efficiency reflects that. Parker's another one. Just more proof that these two are the biggest choke artists in post-season history.

How about we compare Parker's .515 TS% to other great PGs past and present:

.595 - Magic
.568 - Stockton
.583 - Nash
.578 - Billups
.577 - Paul
.515 - Parker

Poor Tony isn't even close. Then again, TP never was an elite point guard.


Addressing the "Big 3" myth:

Spurs won three titles in five years from 2003-2007. Here's the playoff stats for all the Spurs rotation players in that time period:

http://s5.postimg.org/om3v3tvdj/Spurs_03_07.png

Tim and Manu are the only two players with:

20+ PER
6+ BPM
10+ win shares
.200+ WS/48(DRob also qualifies for this but he only played in 2003)

These two guys were dominant - by far the two best players on the team. They were pretty much the Shaq/Kobe of the Spurs. Everybody else was a role player. No idea where the big three nonsense came from. Duncan and Manu were a Big Two back then.


What a fucking cancer - those percentages come playoff time is nauseating.

2002 playoffs:

4-11 (36%) vs Sonics LOSS
6-18 (33%) vs Sonics LOSS
5-14 (35%) vs Lakers LOSS
6-15 (40%) vs Lakers LOSS

2003 playoffs:

2-13 (15%) vs Suns LOSS
1-8 (12%) vs Lakers LOSS
6-17 (35%) vs Lakers LOSS
7-18 (38%) vs Lakers LOSS
3-11 (27%) vs Mavs LOSS
1-12 (8%) vs Nets LOSS

2004 playoffs:

4-12 (33%) vs Lakers LOSS
7-18 (38%) vs Lakers LOSS
7-23 (30%) vs Lakers LOSS
4-18 (22%) vs Lakers LOSS

Had to stop after 2004 - too exhausting/depressing looking at all those shitty shooting numbers from Enrique.

[dabom]

O shit. CN going in raw. :lmao

[Clipper Nation]

Meanwhile, Manu's playoff resumé:

594686409136545792

[313]

MVParker owned Curry in the playoffs already

Prime Manure went toe to toe with RIP Hamilton :lol
:lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

MVParker is Top 10 all time in NBA history in playoff points.... Top 5 in assists

:worthy: best guard to ever wear a spurs uniform

702639842132410368
721876280002482176

[313]

Parker, because it fills a bigger need, but I don't think either would fully make up for our utter incompetence at the guard position.

The 1, 2 punch of having both prime Parker and Manu at the same time is what made us so good(outside of Tim, obvs).

[Robz4000]

Parker, because it fills a bigger need, but I don't think either would fully make up for our utter incompetence at the guard position.

The 1, 2 punch of having both prime Parker and Manu at the same time is what made us so good(outside of Tim, obvs).

Having one or the other would catapult the Spurs to favorites to win it all tbh. Either would provide a steady 18-20 PPG while creating shot opportunities for themselves/others that this team currently just can not do.

[apalisoc_9]

One of Parker or Ginobili would fully make up for whatever Guard need this team has...

Seriously..We're talking about guys that finished top 10 in MVP votings and were legit All-NBA players.

Pop just has to play Parker or Ginobili around 32-33 minutes, nothing silly like 29 or some shit.

[Hoops Czar]

Meanwhile, Manu's playoff resumé:

594686409136545792

Quite clowning your pants and start licking your wounds from that Cum Newton tongue lashing! Parker has 3,385 points, 1,112 assists and 612 rebounds throughout his playoff career compared to Manu's 2,903 points, 772 assists and 820 rebounds. Do you really expect the smallest guy on the court to be grabbing rebounds?

[SAGirl]

Tony. PG is a huge need. The team is already stacked with wings (when Kawhi should be playing 40 minutes in the playoffs unless it's a blowout) and a very limited Manu (unless he goes Kirby with his shooting) is good enough for the bench. MVParker meantime can boost your points in the paint to compensate for Softdrige and Gasoft and this team has a lot of good shooters in the SL. LDN would spring back to life and Kawhi would get the chance to be set up for a change on occasion....

If he goes too much hero that's when you go to Kawhi and bring up Mills off the bench.

I just think the hole at PG is so huge right now and the team looks so much better when Tony is playing well, that you'd get more in this current team from MVParker.

You are liable to bang your head UNT style instead if you had prime Manu and still saw washed up Tony playing the PG spot in the playoffs and you know Pop would do it...

I didn't see Manu in his true prime though. That's a loss for me, maybe I'd change my tune if I had.

[TheGreatYacht]

Parker, because it fills a bigger need, but I don't think either would fully make up for our utter incompetence at the guard position.

The 1, 2 punch of having both prime Parker and Manu at the same time is what made us so good(outside of Tim, obvs).

Quite clowning your pants and start licking your wounds from that Cum Newton tongue lashing! Parker has 3,385 points, 1,112 assists and 612 rebounds throughout his playoff career compared to Manu's 2,903 points, 772 assists and 820 rebounds. Do you really expect the smallest guy on the court to be grabbing rebounds?

Tony. PG is a huge need. The team is already stacked with wings (when Kawhi should be playing 40 minutes in the playoffs unless it's a blowout) and a very limited Manu (unless he goes Kirby with his shooting) is good enough for the bench. MVParker meantime can boost your points in the paint to compensate for Softdrige and Gasoft and this team has a lot of good shooters in the SL. LDN would spring back to life and Kawhi would get the chance to be set up for a change on occasion....

If he goes too much hero that's when you go to Kawhi and bring up Mills off the bench.

I just think the hole at PG is so huge right now and the team looks so much better when Tony is playing well, that you'd get more in this current team from MVParker.

You are liable to bang your head UNT style instead if you had prime Manu and still saw washed up Tony playing the PG spot in the playoffs and you know Pop would do it...

I didn't see Manu in his true prime though. That's a loss for me, maybe I'd change my tune if I had.

[Sean Cagney]

To tell you the truth either or and I would take it, both would benefit this team majorly right now.

[ElNono]

I have a bias, so I voted and I'm not going to badmouth Tony to make my point. If Manu wouldn't be an option, I would certainly take prime Parker, tbh...

[From Downtown]

prime manu is always appealing because he was an excellent defender, too

Yeah that was my first thought as well

[William Hung]

2009 Parker > 2005 Manu

[TimDunkem]

Anyone who picks Tony doesn't know basketball.

[tenbeersbold]

No question Tony,far better at running the sets and in his prime unparalleled at finishing at the rim for a pg.Not to mention taking care of the ball and not being foul prone.

[tenbeersbold]

Plus Parker never leveraged the team on his pay like Many did this year.Damn Timmy was taking cuts and he was still the best defensive player in the league last year.

Manu should a walked to Philly,that crap would a been what he deserved tbh

[benefactor]

Parker is a next level penetrator, just ask the Barry's
http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/deandre-jordan-posterizes-brandon-knight.gif

[spurraider21]

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/deandre-jordan-posterizes-brandon-knight.gif:lol... was at that game tbh

[Brazil]

For this particular team I'd pick Parker for his penetration abilities, that would be deadly with Danny, Kawhi, LMA tbh.... plus he plays more minutes, plus he has less risk to be injured

[Clipper Nation]

Anyone who picks Tony doesn't know basketball.

[urunobili]

MVParker would fit like a glove TBH

[Fireball]

:lol injured my ass. Curry just got shut down by LDN while Kawhi shut down Klay. That was the reason the Spurs took over the series following Game 2.

Tiago was important too ... he did not play in game 1

[skin27]

If you put prime manu or prime Parker on this team kawhi will be back on a spot up shooter role tbh....because prime manu/Parker was too ball dominant because of their penetration so it means less touches or ISO for kawhi..

[dabom]

If catfaggot and his alts voted, it might be a close poll. :lol

[SPURt]

Having a starting unit led by LMA and Kawhi only to be followed by a duo of prime Manu and Patty would be fire. I wouldn't mind crunch time being Patty/Prime Ginobili/Kawhi/LMA with the fifth spot between Green, Dedmon, Gasol, or Bertans depending on matchups.

[lefty]

2005 Manu was an unstoppable force

Then fucking senile Pop decided Porkeer should have the ball more the following season

What a fucking retarded move

[Canyonero]

Prime Manu owned Europe, FIBA competitions and was a key player in Spurs titles.

[FkLA]

Prime Enrique would freeze out Kawhi. No thanks. Give me prime Manu.

[Dex]

I agree that Prime Parker would not fit well with this starting lineup. Sure, his speed and penetration would be a huge asset, but he would also be taking most of the shots once he got to the basket. Either LMA / Kawhi would see their attempts go down, or Parker would be passing up perfectly good shots and that asset would be wasted.

Prime Ginobili off the bench, though, would probably give us the most dominant bench in the league, and we'd have another go-to closer at the end of tough games.

[$pursDynasty]

Neither of them (or Prime Timmay for that matter) are walking through that door, but while some are offering valid points some of this thread is all about player popularity and ST established agendas.

[Pocho La Pantera]

Tony.

I didn't see Manu in his true prime though. no kidding:lol

[spursistan]

Tricky choice..Against Warriors I would take prime Ginobili, but against Clippers/Cleveland I would lean to having prime Parker..

LAC becoming a nightmare match up for us has coincided with Tony falloff..Choke-Paul has stopped making appearances against the Spurs mainly because he's been resting on the other end since circa 2014.

[TimDunkem]

no kidding:lol
Technically didn't see Parker's either since she hopped on the bandwagon after 2014...

[GSH]

Prime Manu. He was at least as good a PG as Tony, and a better defender. Put prime Manu in the starting PG position, along with Danny, Kawhi, LMA, and Dedmon. In a heartbeat.

There may not be any such thing as a clutch gene, but there sure as hell is such a thing as clutch skill. Five seconds left and the Spurs down by 1? I like prime Manu's chance of getting to the rack and getting a percentage shot as well as just about anyone who ever played. And I'll never forget George Karl claiming that Manu grew his hair long, so that it would fly around when he flopped, and draw more whistles. That's when you know you're in a guy's head.

[kaji157]

With Todays NBA a closing unit of Patty-Danny-Manu (in his prime)-Kawhi and either LA (Offense) or Deadmon (Defense) would be a great thing to have.

I do agree that Tony´s skill in his prime were great but don´t fit a team unless you want to make Tony the main scorer.

[Phenomanul]

Prime Ginobili led his team to an Olympic gold against NBA players... first ever to claim that victory...

[daledondale]

Prime Manu. He was at least as good a PG as Tony, and a better defender. Put prime Manu in the starting PG position, along with Danny, Kawhi, LMA, and Dedmon. In a heartbeat.

There may not be any such thing as a clutch gene, but there sure as hell is such a thing as clutch skill. Five seconds left and the Spurs down by 1? I like prime Manu's chance of getting to the rack and getting a percentage shot as well as just about anyone who ever played. And I'll never forget George Karl claiming that Manu grew his hair long, so that it would fly around when he flopped, and draw more whistles. That's when you know you're in a guy's head.

[Dre_7]

Prime Manu was the better player (by a hair), but the way this year's team is built prime Parker would be the better fit.

[eric365]

13' Parker until his injury in the finals was a monster
People just don't remember how clutch he was and how many 30 points blowout cost him better stats and to be in the NBA first team + 2nd or 3rd spot in the MVP race

And this team weakness is at the PG spot

But you can't go wrong with Prime Manu either.
I'm not sure he could play PG the whole game like some posters said though

[Clipper Nation]

Tricky choice..Against Warriors I would take prime Ginobili, but against Clippers/Cleveland I would lean to having prime Parker..

LAC becoming a nightmare match up for us has coincided with Tony falloff..Choke-Paul has stopped making appearances against the Spurs mainly because he's been resting on the other end since circa 2014.

Prime Manu was one of the biggest Clipper killers in the league, regardless of who was on our team.

[SpurSwag]

I like prime Manu more as a player but I actually think Prime Parker is better for this team. I hate how Tony's bad play as made some people forget how incredible he was for a few years, but he was legitimately a top 3 point guard for a 2 or 3 year stretch and was one of the best penetrators in the league.

[Pocho La Pantera]

54-16 TGY LTA?

[Raven]

prime ginobili has a good case for best player ever tbh

[BSfromTX]

prime ginobili has a good case for best player ever tbh


I second that. Look at what he did for D.Blair. He made everyone better. This is a very dumb question. Tony could score... thats it. Over the hill Manu stuffs Durant at the rim going for a break away dunk. Ever see Tony do that?

[kaji157]

Not to say that after his prime (2005-2007) Manu declined very slowly, being a diference maker as far as the 2011-2012 season (14.4 ppg for the playoffs that year), and had the 2014 Playoffs run also.

Tony on the other hand, declined quite fast, considering everyone here sets his prime between 2010 and 2013, having declined a lot in 3 years.

That means a "prime Manu" gives you almost 7 years of great to good basketball, while "Prime Tony" gives you 4 or 5.

[Joseph Kony]

Tough choice. Prime Parker's driving ability would make the SL deadly, a lot of their issues stem from the fact that no one can break down the defense and get wide open shots. But prime Manu would be a top 3 SG in today's NBA and his playmaking off the bench and ability to drive would be invaluable...

toss up tbh

[Joseph Kony]

Not to say that after his prime (2005-2007) Manu declined very slowly, being a diference maker as far as the 2011-2012 season (14.4 ppg for the playoffs that year), and had the 2014 Playoffs run also.

Tony on the other hand, declined quite fast, considering everyone here sets his prime between 2010 and 2013, having declined a lot in 3 years.

That means a "prime Manu" gives you almost 7 years of great to good basketball, while "Prime Tony" gives you 4 or 5.disagree...Parker's prime started in 2006 thru 2013 imo, that's 8 years. if we're going by "being a difference maker" as a definition for "prime," Porker definitely was a difference maker for more than 3 years. Manu's prime was 2005-2011 imo

[apalisoc_9]

78% Manu
22% TP

:wow

[SpursforSix]

prime manu is always appealing because he was an excellent defender, too

You could start Prime Manu with Green and let Green cover the opposing PG's. But have Manu handle the ball on the other end.

[SpursforSix]

actually, I'd rather have Prime Parker so we could trade him away for value before he turns to shit.

[daledondale]

Tough choice. Prime Parker's driving ability would make the SL deadly, a lot of their issues stem from the fact that no one can break down the defense and get wide open shots. But prime Manu would be a top 3 SG in today's NBA and his playmaking off the bench and ability to drive would be invaluable...

toss up tbh
I think prime manu would be Nº 1 SG today. Harden, Thompson or Butler aren't good as manu was.

[alpha_HaZE]

That's a tough one! Both great players, don't listen to the haters, they are future hall of famers and if that's not good enough I am not sure what's wrong with you guys.

Anyways, Manu was kobe like good in the last 5min of close games and is one of the best closers the game has even seen. Tony was elite scoring near the basket and did better than most centers! That's unbelievable for a point guard.

My choice would be Manu, simply because he could attack the basket, and create for himself and others at an elite level. Prime Tony might still struggle against CP3 and Steph, at certain nights. But I would take either of them over the current version of themselves we have this year.

[TheDoctor]

You ask Pop and he'll say Manu tbh.

[barbacoataco]

Parker. As great as Manu was, we would still need a PG. Parker in 2007 was a scorer who could get to the basket over and over, and was also an underrated defender. His ability to get in the paint and break down the defense would improve our spacing and get the 3pt shooting open.

If you choose Manu, then he would take a lot of minutes from Green which would diminish the defense. That is why I pick prime Parker for this question, not necessarily the same as who was the best player in their prime- Manu. I rate Manu higher in peak value and Parker higher in career value.

[DAF86]

Manu's prime wasn't even on 2005. Manu's prime was wasted by getting late to the NBA, tbh.

[FkLA]

Tough choice. Prime Parker's driving ability would make the SL deadly, a lot of their issues stem from the fact that no one can break down the defense and get wide open shots. But prime Manu would be a top 3 SG in today's NBA and his playmaking off the bench and ability to drive would be invaluable...

toss up tbh

Prime Manu would easily be the best SG in today's NBA, tbh.

[JohnnyMax]

Tony Parker

[eric365]

prime ginobili has a good case for best player ever tbh


I second that.


I think prime manu would be Nº 1 SG today. Harden, Thompson or Butler aren't good as manu was.


Prime Manu would easily be the best SG in today's NBA, tbh.

When harden is at least top 3 in the MVP race...

You all have a good case for best homer ever tbh

[daledondale]

When harden is at least top 3 in the MVP race...

You all have a good case for best homer ever tbh Or maybe you are a faggot. Manu was a better playmaker and defender than Harden, if you don't see that, maybe you didn't saw Manu play.

[TheDoctor]

Damn

77% vs 23% :wow

[eric365]

Or maybe you are a faggot. Manu was a better playmaker and defender than Harden, if you don't see that, maybe you didn't saw Manu play.

Thanks for calling me a faggot

There is no defending Manu as best player ever. Anyone saying that is a homer or trolling.
Now MVP Harden vs Manu is a lot closer but on any NBA board that wouldn't even be a question

[Phenomanul]

Parker. As great as Manu was, we would still need a PG. Parker in 2007 was a scorer who could get to the basket over and over, and was also an underrated defender. His ability to get in the paint and break down the defense would improve our spacing and get the 3pt shooting open.

If you choose Manu, then he would take a lot of minutes from Green which would diminish the defense. That is why I pick prime Parker for this question, not necessarily the same as who was the best player in their prime- Manu. I rate Manu higher in peak value and Parker higher in career value.

Not necessarily...

On offense:

PG Manu
SG Green
SF Leonard
PF Aldridge
C Gasol

on Defense

Manu guards opposing SG
Green guards opposing PG
and every one else would guard their assigned counterpart.

[313]

:lol at people who can't read

"but Only for this year, who would you pick?"

It doesn't matter who had the longer prime(Parker fwiw)

2009 Parker would turn our starting line up into world beaters, while even with TOSB Manu, our bench is still pretty good with prime Patty leading the way. Easy title favorites.

Meanwhile if you put prime Manu on this team, he would just make our already good bench, better, but our starting lineup would still struggle with TOSB Porker, TOSB Pau, and Fatass LMA.

Putting prime manu in the starting line up wouldn't work, nevermind the chemistry issues. Imagine trotting out Patty and TOSB Parker off the bench :lol Would give up 40 ppg to opposing benches.

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol at people who can't read

"but Only for this year, who would you pick?"

It doesn't matter who had the longer prime(Parker fwiw)

2009 Parker would turn our starting line up into world beaters, while even with TOSB Manu, our bench is still pretty good with prime Patty leading the way. Easy title favorites.

Meanwhile if you put prime Manu on this team, he would just make our already good bench, better, but our starting lineup would still struggle with TOSB Porker, TOSB Pau, and Fatass LMA.

Putting prime manu in the starting line up wouldn't work, nevermind the chemistry issues. Imagine trotting out Patty and TOSB Parker off the bench :lol Would give up 40 ppg to opposing benches.
/thread

[TheGreatYacht]

Thanks for calling me a faggot

There is no defending Manu as best player ever. Anyone saying that is a homer or trolling.
Now MVP Harden vs Manu is a lot closer but on any NBA board that wouldn't even be a question
A poster who would drink Manure's bath water calling you a faggot, lmfao.

Prime Manure wasn't a top 5 SG back then and he surely won't be right now. Good shit calling out the ridiculous homers :tu

[313]

//-- Best assist per game seasons (*per 36*)
Parker:
2012 - 7.7(8.7) - 32 mpg;
2013 - 7.6(8.3) - 32 mpg;
2009 - 6.9(7.3) - 34 mpg;

Manu:
2011 - 4.9(5.8) - 30 mpg;
2010 - 4.9(6.2) - 29 mpg;
2013 - 4.6(7.1) - 23 mpg;
2014 - 4.3(6.8) - 23 mpg;

//-- Best Points Per Game seasons (*per 36*)
Parker:
2009 - 22(23.2) - 50% - 32 mpg;
2013 - 20.3(22.2) - 52% - 32 mpg;
2006 - 18.9(20.6) - 54% - 33.9 mpg;

Manu:
2008 - 19.5(22.6) - 46% - 31 mpg;
2011 - 17.4(20.7) - 43% - 30 mpg;
2010 - 16.5(20.7) - 44% - 28 mpg;

-------------------------------------------

That LeBron efficiency by Tony :wow
LeBron career FG%: 49.8%
Tony career FG%: 49.4%

:worthy: second best Spur ever

[313]

A poster who would drink Manure's bath water calling you a faggot, lmfao.

Prime Manure wasn't a top 5 SG back then and he surely won't be right now. Good shit calling out the ridiculous homers :tu
Top 5 objective poster on this board telling it like it is :tu

[TheGreatYacht]

//-- Best assist per game seasons (*per 36*)
Parker:
2012 - 7.7(8.7) - 32 mpg;
2013 - 7.6(8.3) - 32 mpg;
2009 - 6.9(7.3) - 34 mpg;

Manu:
2011 - 4.9(5.8) - 30 mpg;
2010 - 4.9(6.2) - 29 mpg;
2013 - 4.6(7.1) - 23 mpg;
2014 - 4.3(6.8) - 23 mpg;

//-- Best Points Per Game seasons (*per 36*)
Parker:
2009 - 22(23.2) - 50% - 32 mpg;
2013 - 20.3(22.2) - 52% - 32 mpg;
2006 - 18.9(20.6) - 54% - 33.9 mpg;

Manu:
2008 - 19.5(22.6) - 46% - 31 mpg;
2011 - 17.4(20.7) - 43% - 30 mpg;
2010 - 16.5(20.7) - 44% - 28 mpg;

-------------------------------------------

That LeBron efficiency by Tony :wow
LeBron career FG%: 49.8%
Tony career FG%: 49.4%

:worthy: second best Spur ever
Michael Jordan-esque run you're on :wow

https://m.popkey.co/a1798e/8y9GW.gif

[FkLA]

When harden is at least top 3 in the MVP race...

You all have a good case for best homer ever tbh

Harden is playing PG this year, tbh.

[ElNono]

:lol at people who can't read

"but Only for this year, who would you pick?"

Manu did start in his prime, smh NASF...

People can read just fine, tbh... there's no reason he couldn't start as the lead playmaker with this team's makeup. Fearless Gino was an unstoppable force.

You can then bring Tony off the bench to statpad his numbers, which is a better role for him anyways, since freezing out Dedmon, Fathead or Simmons wouldn't be a big deal...

[Phenomanul]

:lol at people who can't read

"but Only for this year, who would you pick?"

It doesn't matter who had the longer prime(Parker fwiw)

2009 Parker would turn our starting line up into world beaters, while even with TOSB Manu, our bench is still pretty good with prime Patty leading the way. Easy title favorites.

Meanwhile if you put prime Manu on this team, he would just make our already good bench, better, but our starting lineup would still struggle with TOSB Porker, TOSB Pau, and Fatass LMA.

Putting prime manu in the starting line up wouldn't work, nevermind the chemistry issues. Imagine trotting out Patty and TOSB Parker off the bench :lol Would give up 40 ppg to opposing benches.


Logical fallacies left and right...

Prime Parker was never a defensive threat... Prime Ginobili was a two-way player...

Prime Parker was never a threat from 3... Prime Ginobili could score 3-pointers from anywhere on the court... transition/spot-up/step-back no matter... in today's NBA that skill is golden.

The go-ahead buckets of several memorable Spurs playoff games were orchestrated by Ginobili running point --- not Parker...

The series clinching bucket by Duncan in Game 6 vs. The Sonics (at Seattle) was created by prime Ginobili...
The series defining bucket by Horry in Game 5 vs. The Pistons (at Detroit) was created by prime Ginobili...
The series defining 3-point shot to force overtime by Duncan in Game 1 vs. The Suns was created by prime Ginobili...
etc...

Fact is Prime Ginobili could run the point... because HE WAS the Spurs' DEFACTO point guard "in the Clutch" from 2005-2011. Only haters and fools fail to acknowledge this very obvious fact.

[ElNono]

Logical fallacies left and right...

Prime Parker was never a defensive threat... Prime Ginobili was a two-way player...

Prime Parker was never a threat from 3... Prime Ginobili could score 3-pointers from anywhere on the court... transition/spot-up/step-back no matter... in today's NBA that skill is golden.

The go-ahead buckets of several memorable Spurs playoff games were orchestrated by Ginobili running point --- not Parker...

The series clinching bucket by Duncan in Game 6 vs. The Sonics (at Seattle) was created by prime Ginobili...
The series defining bucket by Horry in Game 5 vs. The Pistons (at Detroit) was created by prime Ginobili...
The series defining 3-point shot to force overtime by Duncan in Game 1 vs. The Suns was created by prime Ginobili...
etc...

Fact is Prime Ginobili could run the point... because HE WAS the Spurs' DEFACTO point guard "in the Clutch" from 2005-2011. Only haters and fools fail to acknowledge this very obvious fact.

Some fans started watching the Spurs 2010 onwards, tbh... you can tell right away...

[Phenomanul]

Some fans started watching the Spurs 2010 onwards, tbh... you can tell right away...

The worst part is that this team needs a boost in the arm when it comes to defense...

Two of the biggest defensive deficiencies RIGHT NOW (and cause for the Spurs' slow starts) are Parker and Gasol.

In the context of the OP question - Prime Parker replacing his current self doesn't really address that issue... Prime Ginobili replacing Parker OTOH is a huge upgrade on that side of the ball...

Prime Ginobili was swatting Durant and Wade on breakaway dunk attempts... swatting KG and Brad Miller at the rim... swatting Kobe and Paul Pierce from behind on step-through shot attempts... Ginobili was picking the pockets of some of the best ball-handlers of his era (Iverson, Kidd, Nash) and getting steals in the clutchest of moments... Ginobili was a one-man-wrecking crew... TBH his eye-to-hand coordination is freakishly the stuff of legend.

[TheGreatYacht]

^ probably one of the worst posts I've seen all year.... coming from Phenomanul. I'm sure there's no bias

[Pocho La Pantera]

The worst part is that this team needs a boost in the arm when it comes to defense...

Two of the biggest defensive deficiencies RIGHT NOW (and cause for the Spurs' slow starts) are Parker and Gasol.

In the context of the OP question - Prime Parker replacing his current self doesn't really address that issue... Prime Ginobili replacing Parker OTOH is a huge upgrade on that side of the ball...

Prime Ginobili was swatting Durant and Wade on breakaway dunk attempts... swatting KG and Brad Miller at the rim... swatting Kobe and Paul Pierce from behind on step-through shot attempts... Ginobili was picking the pockets of some of the best ball-handlers of his era (Iverson, Kidd, Nash) and getting steals in the clutchest of moments... Ginobili was a one-man-wrecking crew... TBH his eye-to-hand coordination is freakishly the stuff of legend.Close thread.

[Phenomanul]

^ probably one of the worst posts I've seen all year.... coming from Phenomanul. I'm sure there's no bias

There's no denying Ginobili is one of my favorite players.

That said, all of my statements are substantiated by all of the relevant advanced metrics.

FACT: Ginobili was simply a better defender than Parker (at any point of his career). DRPM validates this premise overwhelmingly so.

FACT: Ginobili was running point for the Spurs in the 4th quarters during his prime. Any observer of the Spurs games from that period can validate this statement - as can a simple YouTube search.


Real bias... such as yours comes from unsubstantiated and uncorroborated statements.

[TheGreatYacht]

I've had enough of these player fans re-writing history so it fits their agenda.


Prime Parker was never a defensive threat... Prime Ginobili was a two-way player...
Who did Pop ever assign Manu to stop? (Besides scrubs like Rick Fox :lol) I mean most coaches put their 2-way players on stars....


Prime Parker was never a threat from 3... Prime Ginobili could score 3-pointers from anywhere on the court... transition/spot-up/step-back no matter... in today's NBA that skill is golden.
Westbrook can't shoot for shit and he's still one of the most dominant forces in the league. Like Parker, you can't stop him from getting to the rim.


The go-ahead buckets of several memorable Spurs playoff games were orchestrated by Ginobili running point --- not Parker...

The series clinching bucket by Duncan in Game 6 vs. The Sonics (at Seattle) was created by prime Ginobili...
The series defining bucket by Horry in Game 5 vs. The Pistons (at Detroit) was created by prime Ginobili...
The series defining 3-point shot to force overtime by Duncan in Game 1 vs. The Suns was created by prime Ginobili...
etc...
Spurs were about to win a championship in 2013 and that Parker dagger over Lebron would've been up there with Sean's Memorial Day miracle. Thank Ginobili for ruining that year. Just like you can thank him for MANY other un-clutch moments in his career like the Dirk foul and all the missed step back bricks he had late in games that you never bring up etc, etc


Fact is Prime Ginobili could run the point... because HE WAS the Spurs' DEFACTO point guard "in the Clutch" from 2005-2011. Only haters and fools fail to acknowledge this very obvious fact.
Both players could run the point. Stats just back up Parker as the better point, as 313 posted :)

[Phenomanul]

I've had enough of these player fans re-writing history so it fits their agenda.
So why do YOU keep doing it.


Who did Pop ever assign Manu to stop? (Besides scrubs like Rick Fox :lol) I mean most coaches put their 2-way players on stars...
Logical fallacy No. 1: Ummmm... How is this a counter argument to me saying that Ginobili was a way better defender than Parker...? Fortunately the Spurs were blessed to have a player by the name of Bruce Bowen playing on the team. You may have heard of him. Bruce is considered one of the Top-5 best perimeter defenders ever - but that isn't a knock on Manu. More importantly, it isn't one that favors Parker.


Westbrook can't shoot for shit and he's still one of the most dominant forces in the league. Like Parker, you can't stop him from getting to the rim.
I'm not saying prime Parker wasn't a force. I was a fan of Tony transition game, his skills in the paint. What I'm saying is that prime Ginobili was a force on both sides of the ball. In the context of the OP question we will also need better defense to stop the likes of Golden State. IT is a very real need on THIS TEAM, RIGHT NOW. Prime Parker simply doesn't provide that skill. Prime Ginobili does.


Spurs were about to win a championship in 2013 and that Parker dagger over Lebron would've been up there with Sean's Memorial Day miracle. Thank Ginobili for ruining that year. Just like you can thank him for MANY other un-clutch moments in his career like the Dirk foul and all the missed step back bricks he had late in games that you never bring up etc, etc
Logical fallacy No. 2: I'm sorry, the question was about Prime Manu. Most here agree that Manu was no longer SuperManu in 2013. And yes, his only unclutch moment in his prime was the foul on Dirk in 2006. Ironically, that mistake occurred right after having put the Spurs up by 3 in one of the clutchest 3 pointers he's ever made. Let's not pretend like that series wasn't one of the wackiest officiated series ever either... the Spurs would've prevailed despite Ginobili's error if the obvious foul on Duncan's game-winning attempt is called. I mean why not? The average FTA for both teams over the course of 7 games was over 31.8 FTA per game - but no, Bavetta and company decided to swallow their whistles on the last play.


Both players could run the point. Stats just back up Parker as the better point, as 313 posted :)
Much of Parker's success at point was his high usage pairing with Duncan. His PNR with Duncan often resulted in points because of Duncan's greatness. This statement is easily validated by analyzing the percentage of Parker's assists that were executed by Duncan vs. execution by the rest of his teammates. OTOH Ginobili's assists throughout his career have been more evenly distributed because the offense he generated wasn't as dependent on Duncan's finishing. Despite lower assist numbers (per game or even per 36) his assist ratio is HIGHER when Duncan is taken out from both of their averages. He made players like DeJuan Blair, Splitter, Nazr, Bonner, Oberto, Nesterovic appear better than they were because he would generate such easy looks for them. Since the Spurs no longer have a low-post dominant player like Duncan, saying that Prime Parker would be the better distributor just based on his higher assist averages would be a fallacy.

[TheGreatYacht]

This is a pointless argument, we'll never change each other's minds Phenomanul

As an unbias fair Spurs fan, I would take Parker. As by your own words, you will take your favorite player Manu.

[313]

Logical fallacies left and right...

Prime Parker was never a defensive threat... Prime Ginobili was a two-way player...

Prime Parker was never a threat from 3... Prime Ginobili could score 3-pointers from anywhere on the court... transition/spot-up/step-back no matter... in today's NBA that skill is golden.

The go-ahead buckets of several memorable Spurs playoff games were orchestrated by Ginobili running point --- not Parker...

The series clinching bucket by Duncan in Game 6 vs. The Sonics (at Seattle) was created by prime Ginobili...
The series defining bucket by Horry in Game 5 vs. The Pistons (at Detroit) was created by prime Ginobili...
The series defining 3-point shot to force overtime by Duncan in Game 1 vs. The Suns was created by prime Ginobili...
etc...

Fact is Prime Ginobili could run the point... because HE WAS the Spurs' DEFACTO point guard "in the Clutch" from 2005-2011. Only haters and fools fail to acknowledge this very obvious fact.
Parker not being a defensive threat didn't stop the Spurs from winning in 03, 05, 07...

We have shooting with Green, and Kawhi.. the starting line up needs a slasher to collapse the defense..

:lol claims I'm the one using logical fallacies
:lol follows it up with logical fallacies of his own
:lol at cherry picking singular possessions as if they're independent from the other 100 or so possessions a game
:lol if there's a 20-2 run in the third that gets a team back in the game, then that's just as important as a go ahead bucket at the end
:lol likewise if a player plays so well there is no need for a go ahead bucket, then how do you quantify that by your methods?

For example. In that series clinching game at Seattle, Tony had a go ahead jumper at 88-89 that gave us a lead until it was tied up at 96-96, ultimately setting Manu up for the game winning assist. He also assisted on a Tim jumper to tie it 80-80 and a Barry 3 to give us the lead at 83-82. Are you seeing the flaw in your logic? I'm not denying Manu had good moments at PG btw, he was the closer for years. Doesn't mean it would've worked out the same for him to be the de facto starting point guard, boyo.

But anyway, I can cherry pick too.

The series clinching, proverbial dagger layup by Tony in game 5 vs the suns(2005). Sealed the deal despite Manu trying his best to choke the game away..
Game 1 vs the Suns in 2007, Tony scores 30, making crucial jumpers to give us the lead while Manu is splitting FTs... again, trying his best to choke the game away :lol
Game 7 vs the Mavs, 2014, Tony scores 14 in the first quarter of an elimination game, Mavs never recover..
Destroying LeBron in the finals in 2007 :wow

And I'm assuming you only want to take examples from years where we won the championship because how many GREAT playoff runs by Duncan(2006) and Tony(2013) were wasted because of boneheaded play by Manu? 2004, 2006, 2013, possibly more if you include his broken down TOSB years like 2012 where he was dragging the team down by not being healthy :lol

Nonetheless, Manu is cemented as fourth best Spur all time, we'll never see another like him :flag:

[313]

Manu did start in his prime, smh NASF...I'm aware he came to the team in his physical prime, but he really hit his stride in the 04-05 season imo..05-11(7 seasons), vs 06-13(8 seasons)...but I mean, it doesn't really matter tbh imo fwiw


People can read just fine, tbh... there's no reason he couldn't start as the lead playmaker with this team's makeup. Fearless Gino was an unstoppable force.He sure was unstoppable in 2004, and 2006..and 2009.. But choking aside, he was great as a situational closer. Him running point on this team, however, would mean we would have to move Porky to backup PG, and mills to backup SG, which would give us a bench unit of Porky, Mills, Simmons(Anderson instead to add length?), Lee, Dedmon? We would get destroyed defensively. Taking prime Parker just works better.


You can then bring Tony off the bench to statpad his numbers, which is a better role for him anyways, since freezing out Dedmon, Fathead or Simmons wouldn't be a big deal...:lol

[daledondale]

Thanks for calling me a faggot

There is no defending Manu as best player ever. Anyone saying that is a homer or trolling.
Now MVP Harden vs Manu is a lot closer but on any NBA board that wouldn't even be a question
I didn't say that Manu is the best player ever. I'm only saying that most people (except haters) would choose prime Manu over Harden, because the reasons i have wrote before, and is not closer. Prime Manu beated Usa Team with Argentina, c'mon.

[daledondale]

A poster who would drink Manure's bath water calling you a faggot, lmfao.

Prime Manure wasn't a top 5 SG back then and he surely won't be right now. Good shit calling out the ridiculous homers :tu
:lol Nigga please, you're the biggest homer in the forum. If i drink that, maybe you eat Parker's shit.

[Phenomanul]

This is a pointless argument, we'll never change each other's minds Phenomanul

As an unbias fair Spurs fan, I would take Parker. As by your own words, you will take your favorite player Manu.

I see you will continue to play the "jump to conclusions" game...

The OP question is subjective by nature. There is no "right" answer. And such responses are based on our views on what the current version of the Spurs needs. What gaps need they address?

To you the answer to the OP is Prime Tony. Fine.

To me the answer to the OP is Prime Ginobili because I feel we've lost a step on defense. That's my opinion. We will need that this season to get by Golden State.

The laughable bit, is you claiming that my opinion is based on just preferential bias alone without anything to substantiate said opinion.

YOU ARE KNOWN ON THIS SITE as a Ginobili hater. It is your shtick. And here's the kicker, you didn't pick in favor Tony. You picked against Ginobili because of your unabashed hatred towards him.

[Phenomanul]

Parker not being a defensive threat didn't stop the Spurs from winning in 03, 05, 07...
Because the Spurs had one Timothy Theodore Duncan, Bruce Bowen and to a lesser degree Manu Ginobili... with those three, Parker's defense just needed to be above average to not be a team sinking liability. A Prime Parker on this team, would be a liability.


We have shooting with Green, and Kawhi.. the starting line up needs a slasher to collapse the defense..
Prime Ginobili was a quintessential slasher... the fact that you keep denying this simple truth is disingenuous.

Yes. I agree Parker was an amazing, if not a better slasher than Prime Ginobili... but Prime Manu gives you some of that slashing capability and then more.



:lol claims I'm the one using logical fallacies
:lol follows it up with logical fallacies of his own
:lol at cherry picking singular possessions as if they're independent from the other 100 or so possessions a game
:lol if there's a 20-2 run in the third that gets a team back in the game, then that's just as important as a go ahead bucket at the end
:lol likewise if a player plays so well there is no need for a go ahead bucket, then how do you quantify that by your methods?

Your missing the point of my examples...

Your point was to suggest that Prime Manu would have to be relegated to the bench, and that the current Spurs team doesn't have a need at the bench. Which is why in the context of your own self imposed constraint you ended up picking Parker. You don't see the circular logic...?

Manu was a bench player not because he was inferior in any way form or fashion, but because it strategically made our team that much more superior during the entire 48 minute stretch. It balanced out our attack and for years, the Spurs were the model team - Ginobili's sacrifice being a big part of that.

My examples then showed that Prime Ginobili did have the gravitas to LEAD, because the floor general mantle was already thrust upon him (appointed by Pop himself) - as he was the DEFACTO closer.



For example. In that series clinching game at Seattle, Tony had a go ahead jumper at 88-89 that gave us a lead until it was tied up at 96-96, ultimately setting Manu up for the game winning assist. He also assisted on a Tim jumper to tie it 80-80 and a Barry 3 to give us the lead at 83-82. Are you seeing the flaw in your logic? I'm not denying Manu had good moments at PG btw, he was the closer for years. Doesn't mean it would've worked out the same for him to be the de facto starting point guard, boyo.

But anyway, I can cherry pick too.

The series clinching, proverbial dagger layup by Tony in game 5 vs the suns(2005). Sealed the deal despite Manu trying his best to choke the game away..
Game 1 vs the Suns in 2007, Tony scores 30, making crucial jumpers to give us the lead while Manu is splitting FTs... again, trying his best to choke the game away :lol
Game 7 vs the Mavs, 2014, Tony scores 14 in the first quarter of an elimination game, Mavs never recover..
Destroying LeBron in the finals in 2007 :wow

Again, none of this shows that A) Ginobili couldn't have been a capable starter. B) a capable PG

The very same reasons you listed while suggesting Parker was the obvious choice.


And I'm assuming you only want to take examples from years where we won the championship because how many GREAT playoff runs by Duncan(2006) and Tony(2013) were wasted because of boneheaded play by Manu? 2004, 2006, 2013, possibly more if you include his broken down TOSB years like 2012 where he was dragging the team down by not being healthy :lol

Nonetheless, Manu is cemented as fourth best Spur all time, we'll never see another like him :flag:

Seriously you are blaming Manu for 2004?

The fact that you feel you have to tear Ginobili down for you to make your arguments is the very same reason why I believe you and the TGY are full of bias.

As for 2006, everybody including Manu will tell you he committed the grandest of sins. But let's not pretend like he didn't contribute. He was far and away the team's second best player in that playoff run against Dallas - averaging 21.3 PPG with a TS% of 67.4, 86.7% from the FT line on 60 attempts. He willed us to victory at Dallas to setup Game 7 - 30 points on 8-14 shooting, 10 rebounds, 3 steals, etc... while Parker went cold shooting 3-15. In other words, you can't win them all... but Ginobili certainly tried.

And 2013? Seriously???? As I said before, no one here would include that year as being part of Manu's prime...

[Clipper Nation]

Porker Pumpers getting BTFO ITT. Losing the poll by a landslide and losing every argument by a landslide.

[tonight...you]

Prime Parker was great, Prime Manu was a Force of Nature. Ask Phoenix. Ask George Karl. Ask Detroit. Ask his hair, that he used to have.

[dabom]

Porker Pumpers getting BTFO ITT. Losing the poll by a landslide and losing every argument by a landslide.
That's why the 3-5 porker stans try to flood the comments. :lol

[tonight...you]

Prime Manu, when called upon, was like a tsunami going against little, green toy soldiers.

[TheGreatYacht]

Porker Pumpers getting BTFO ITT. Losing the poll by a landslide and losing every argument by a landslide.
Putting a Parker vs Ginobili poll in an Argentine ran website and expecting it to be close, is like you and your Chinese country men trying to say the letter L. It ain't going to happen.
lefty can confirm

[Clipper Nation]

Putting a Parker vs Ginobili poll in an Argentine ran website and expecting it to be close, is like you and your Chinese country men trying to say the letter L. It ain't going to happen.
lefty (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=6896) can confirm
:lmao Anti-Porker threads get deleted all the time, but Manu was allowed to be bashed nonstop for a solid year after 6 with no retailation from the mods.

But yeah, there's a vast conspiracy to keep the Porker stans down. Get real.

[313]

Putting a Parker vs Ginobili poll in an Argentine ran website and expecting it to be close, is like you and your Chinese country men trying to say the letter L. It ain't going to happen.
lefty (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=6896) can confirm
:lol

[313]

Because the Spurs had one Timothy Theodore Duncan, Bruce Bowen and to a lesser degree Manu Ginobili... with those three, Parker's defense just needed to be above average to not be a team sinking liability. A Prime Parker on this team, would be a liability.
So in the SL we now have two capable wing defenders(Kawhi/Danny) instead of one with Bruce. So with a non TOSB Parker I think our wing defense would suffice. I do admit Manu has always been the better defender, due to size, reflexes, and instincts. However, Prime Manu isn't so great on defense that it makes up for the other reasons I went with Parker(see ^ my El Nono quote]. Plus, whether we have Parker or Manu, Pau and Aldridge can't anchor the defense like Tim, which is the biggest issue.



Prime Ginobili was a quintessential slasher... the fact that you keep denying this simple truth is disingenuous.

Yes. I agree Parker was an amazing, if not a better slasher than Prime Ginobili... but Prime Manu gives you some of that slashing capability and then more. Manu was one of the craftiest, and entertaining slashers of the 2000s, I wouldn't deny that.


Your point was to suggest that Manu would have to be relegated to the bench, and that the current Spurs team doesn't have a need at the bench. Which is why in the context of your own self imposed constraint you ended up picking Parker. You don't see the circular logic...? If you put Prime Manu in the SL at PG, you move TOSB Porky to the bench. I just don't feel that works as well as having Prime Parker, and keeping the cohesion of the current bench.


Manu was a bench player not because he was inferior in any way form or fashion, but because it strategically made our team that much more superior during the entire 48 minute stretch. It balanced out our attack and for years, the Spurs were the model team - Ginobili's sacrifice being a big part of that.

My examples then showed that Prime Ginobili did have the gravitas to LEAD, because the floor general mantle was already thrust upon him (appointed by Pop himself) - as he was the DEFACTO closer.




Again, none of this shows that A) Ginobili couldn't have been a capable starter. B) a capable PG

The very same reasons you listed while suggesting Parker was the obvious choice.I'll concede that if I said Manu couldn't be a capable starter, or PG, I went too far. He's always been a more gifted passer, and had better court vision than Parker. Prime Parker wasn't as bad a distributor as advertised, though.

This is obviously a Manu vs Parker bait thread, but I think both were great...both had their flaws. I just think Parker fits better schematically.

[ElNono]

He sure was unstoppable in 2004, and 2006..and 2009.. But choking aside, he was great as a situational closer. Him running point on this team, however, would mean we would have to move Porky to backup PG, and mills to backup SG, which would give us a bench unit of Porky, Mills, Simmons(Anderson instead to add length?), Lee, Dedmon? We would get destroyed defensively. Taking prime Parker just works better.

This isn't the '13-'14 Spurs, tbh... this is a top heavy team that will go as far as the starting unit takes them...

[BSfromTX]

:lol at people who can't read

"but Only for this year, who would you pick?"

It doesn't matter who had the longer prime(Parker fwiw)

2009 Parker would turn our starting line up into world beaters, while even with TOSB Manu, our bench is still pretty good with prime Patty leading the way. Easy title favorites.

Meanwhile if you put prime Manu on this team, he would just make our already good bench, better, but our starting lineup would still struggle with TOSB Porker, TOSB Pau, and Fatass LMA.

Putting prime manu in the starting line up wouldn't work, nevermind the chemistry issues. Imagine trotting out Patty and TOSB Parker off the bench :lol Would give up 40 ppg to opposing benches.

Worst post ever

[DAF86]

When harden is at least top 3 in the MVP race...

You all have a good case for best homer ever tbh

Harden being the undisputed best SG in the league is exactly why smart folks know that Manu in his prime would be the best SG in the league right now. Harden is a diluted version of Manu with the chance of statpadding, tbh.

[ElNono]

Harden being the undisputed best SG in the league is exactly why smart folks know that Manu in his prime would be the best SG in the league right now. Harden is a diluted version of Manu with the chance of statpadding, tbh.

Not to mention the SG position is very diluted right now... it's Harden, and maybe... DeRozan as standouts? Back then you had teams building around SGs, like Kobe with the Lakers, Ray Allen in Seattle, Wade in Miami... just tough competition all around in that position...

[SASdynasty!]

Prime Parker outplayed Lebron, Curry, Nash, CP3, Westbrook, etc in the playoffs. Prime Manu outplayed Joe Johnson and Rip Hamilton.

[apalisoc_9]

Prime Parker outplayed Lebron, Curry, Nash, CP3, Westbrook, etc in the playoffs. Prime Manu outplayed Joe Johnson and Rip Hamilton.

:lmao

[ElNono]

:lmao

:lol

[RD2191]

I'd easily take a prime Manu.

[diego]

//-- Best assist per game seasons (*per 36*)
Parker:
2012 - 7.7(8.7) - 32 mpg;
2013 - 7.6(8.3) - 32 mpg;
2009 - 6.9(7.3) - 34 mpg;

Manu:
2011 - 4.9(5.8) - 30 mpg;
2010 - 4.9(6.2) - 29 mpg;
2013 - 4.6(7.1) - 23 mpg;
2014 - 4.3(6.8) - 23 mpg;

//-- Best Points Per Game seasons (*per 36*)
Parker:
2009 - 22(23.2) - 50% - 32 mpg;
2013 - 20.3(22.2) - 52% - 32 mpg;
2006 - 18.9(20.6) - 54% - 33.9 mpg;

Manu:
2008 - 19.5(22.6) - 46% - 31 mpg;
2011 - 17.4(20.7) - 43% - 30 mpg;
2010 - 16.5(20.7) - 44% - 28 mpg;

-------------------------------------------

That LeBron efficiency by Tony :wow
LeBron career FG%: 49.8%
Tony career FG%: 49.4%

:worthy: second best Spur ever

you arent taking into account role, defense, versatility..

split as starter, career

manu 16.5 pts, 4.2 reb, 4.3 ast
tony 16.5 pts, 2.9 reb, 5.9 ast

split as reserve, career

manu 12.3 pts, 3.4 reb, 3.7 ast
tony 11.0 pts, 2.2 reb, 4.2 ast

career 3PAr, FTr, TS%, PER

manu .390 3PAr, .409 FTr, .585 TS, 20.8 PER
tony .101 3PAr, .291 FTr, .550 TS, 18.7 PER

career DWS, DBPM, Stl/36, Blk/36

manu 44.1 DWS, 1.3 DBPM, 1.9 Stl/36, 0.4 Blk/36
tony 42.7 DWS, -0.8 DBPM, 1.0 Stl/36, 0.1 Blk/36

and thats with manu's stats taking a plunge in old age. tony's will only go down from here on out.

lebron is in a different stratosphere than either, but since you want to compare him:

.204 3PAr, .422 FTr, .582 TS, 27.6 PER, 59.5 DWS, 1.9 DBPM



He sure was unstoppable in 2004, and 2006..and 2009.. But choking aside, he was great as a situational closer.


2004 per 36:
manu 16.7 pts, 6.8 reb, 4.0 ast, 2.2 stl, .447 FG
tony 17.2 pts, 2.0 reb, 6.5 ast, 1.2 stl, .429 FG

2006 per 36
manu 20.2 pts, 5.0 reb, 3.32 ast, 1.6 stl, .484 FG
tony 19.9 pts, 3.6 reb, 3.8 ast, 1 stl, .460 FG

of course, 2009 manu didnt play because of injury, which shows how low you have to go. since you posted their best RS years, ill put their unanimous best playoff runs head to head, per 36 for the sake of consistency:

manu 2005 22.3 pts, 6.2 reb, 4.5 ast, 1.3 stl, .507 FG (8.6 FTA /36)
tony 2013 20.3 pts, 3.2 reb, 6.9 ast, 1.1 stl, .458 FG (5.3 FTA /36)



If you put Prime Manu in the SL at PG, you move TOSB Porky to the bench. I just don't feel that works as well as having Prime Parker, and keeping the cohesion of the current bench.


yeah that was my first thought, and even now its hard to imagine parker accepting coming off the bench.

[EVAY]

I picked Ginobili because it IS a subjective call, and all stats aside, I think Ginobili has the best court vision, passing ability and Bball IQ on the team. (especially since Duncan (bball IQ) and Boris Diaw(passing ability) are not on this year's team.

I happen to like both players, and I don't like being asked to choose. In terms of the importance of the role being played, it would likely be Parker, but in terms of who I would like to watch more, it would be Manu.

[Clipper Nation]

Prime Parker outplayed Lebron, Curry, Nash, CP3, Westbrook, etc in the playoffs. Prime Manu outplayed Joe Johnson and Rip Hamilton.
:lmao:lmao:lmao

[duncan2k5]

You could always count on tony to not show up when it counts...many 100%

[Canyonero]

Prime Parker outplayed Lebron, Curry, Nash, CP3, Westbrook, etc in the playoffs.

And Jordan, Magic, Bird, Isiah, etc.

[dabom]

You could always count on tony to not show up when it counts...many 100%

[Phenomanul]

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2017/2/6/14496094/advanced-statistics-manu-ginobili-stands-out

It quantifies what we all could "see," despite the usage rate... Manu on the court made for a better oiled machine.

[Phenomanul]

The worst part is that this team needs a boost in the arm when it comes to defense...

Two of the biggest defensive deficiencies RIGHT NOW (and cause for the Spurs' slow starts) are Parker and Gasol.

In the context of the OP question - Prime Parker replacing his current self doesn't really address that issue... Prime Ginobili replacing Parker OTOH is a huge upgrade on that side of the ball...

Prime Ginobili was swatting Durant and Wade on breakaway dunk attempts... swatting KG and Brad Miller at the rim... swatting Kobe and Paul Pierce from behind on step-through shot attempts... Ginobili was picking the pockets of some of the best ball-handlers of his era (Iverson, Kidd, Nash) and getting steals in the clutchest of moments... Ginobili was a one-man-wrecking crew... TBH his eye-to-hand coordination is freakishly the stuff of legend.

Old Ginobili now swatting Harden

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uoGnzDLDAU

[cutewizard]

Manu with 46 points against Lebron!

Case closed.

Hahahahaha!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6drdXtuXQ8&spfreload=10

[wildbill2u]

Such great arguments for both since their primes were very extraordinary primes. However I voted for Manu simply because while Parker had greatness, Manu had genius.

[kaji157]

Considered how he could be used as Harden on this team or off Kawhi, Manu would be the best option.
Also can cover more positions than Tony and is a threat from 3 which prime Parker wasn't.
Also a great Ft shooter which is important these days.

[Phenomanul]

Manu with 46 points against Lebron!

Case closed.

Hahahahaha!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6drdXtuXQ8&spfreload=10

The funny thing about that game (in relation to this topic) was Parker didn't play. It was against LeBron's reigning Eastern Conference Champs. Manu was the leader, the playmaker, the closer, and was clutch as hell. This game is considered one of the most efficient games of all time. Manu scored 46 points on 15 shot attempts.

[DAF86]

Harden being the undisputed best SG in the league is exactly why smart folks know that Manu in his prime would be the best SG in the league right now. Harden is a diluted version of Manu with the chance of statpadding, tbh.

This statement will always remain true, tbh.

[TheGreatYacht]

Lmfao prime Manu wasn't even close to this Harden, tbh.

Player fans see euro steps and turnovers, and they automatically think they would be the same in their primes Lmfao.....

Ginobili from ages 25-27 PER-36:
16.5ppg, 5.1rpg, 4.4apg, 2.6TO, 57.0TS%, 19.0PER, 24.3WS, 5.2BPM

Harden from ages 25-27:
28.5ppg, 6.6rpg, 8.5apg, 4.8TO, 60.5TS%, 26.4PER, 44.7WS, 8.4BPM

Keep in mind Harden did this against starting units and with teams focusing on stopping him

[DAF86]

Lmfao prime Manu wasn't even close to this Harden, tbh.

I do believe he would match him in turnovers though.....

Ginobili from ages 25-27 PER-36:
16.5ppg, 5.1rpg, 4.4apg, 2.6TO, 57.0TS%, 19.0PER, 24.3WS, 5.2BPM

Harden from ages 25-27:
28.5ppg, 6.6rpg, 8.5apg, 4.8TO, 60.5TS%, 26.4PER, 44.7WS, 8.4BPM

Keep in mind Harden did this against starting units and with teams focusing on stopping him

Why are you comparing stats as if they played the same role and on the same sytem and era?

[Crazymaddopeyo]

Lmfao prime Manu wasn't even close to this Harden, tbh.

Player fans see euro steps and turnovers, and they automatically think they would be the same in their primes Lmfao.....

Ginobili from ages 25-27 PER-36:
16.5ppg, 5.1rpg, 4.4apg, 2.6TO, 57.0TS%, 19.0PER, 24.3WS, 5.2BPM

Harden from ages 25-27:
28.5ppg, 6.6rpg, 8.5apg, 4.8TO, 60.5TS%, 26.4PER, 44.7WS, 8.4BPM

Keep in mind Harden did this against starting units and with teams focusing on stopping him

These are his starting stats? What were his stats when he was a sixth man? That would be a better comparison.

[TheGreatYacht]

These are his starting stats? What were his stats when he was a sixth man? That would be a better comparison.
Ginobili as a starter (349 games, 30.1MP):
16.5ppg, 4.2rpg, 4.3apg, 45.3FG%

Ginobili as a 6th man (643 games, 23.4MP):
12.0ppg, 3.3rpg, 3.6apg, 44.2FG%

Harden as a starter (402 games, 37.5MP):
27.1ppg, 5.9rpg, 7.5apg, 44.1FG%

Harden as a 6th man (213 games, 26.4MP):
12.7ppg, 3.4rpg, 2.4apg, 44.6FG%

Harden was a 20-22yr old kid when he was a 6th man. Ginobili was a grown ass man.

[dabom]

If only haren could play like manu as sixth man, they probably pay the man to stay in OKC and he would have a ring already. :lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

Why are you comparing stats as if they played the same role and on the same sytem and era?
Sorry the stats don't favor your boy :cry

You have no problems throwing stats out there when it favors your boy Messi. Then when they favor a Ronaldo they don't matter anymore, winning does LMFAO. Also, :lol I forgot how elite Mchale and Bickerstaff's systems were.....

Truth is stats don't matter to Ginobili player fans because Parker (and many many many other players) have superior numbers. It's all about :cry heart :cry and :cry ball diving :cry

[Pocho La Pantera]

Sorry the stats don't favor your boy :cry

You have no problems throwing stats out there when it favors your boy Messi. Also, :lol I forgot how elite Mchale and Bickerstaff's systems were.....

Truth is stats don't matter to Ginobili player fans because Parker (and many many many other players) have superior numbers. It's all about :cry heart :cry and :cry ball diving :cry and who's your boy at soccer?

[kaji157]

People prefer Manu, get over it, this is not a competition.

[TheGreatYacht]

It was never a competition. Latinos will stick with Latinos, like in boxing. Real fans know HOTS was and will always be better. End of discussion. Not wasting anymore of my time discussing the obvious (which numbers prove)

[DAF86]

Sorry the stats don't favor your boy :cry

You have no problems throwing stats out there when it favors your boy Messi. Then when they favor a Ronaldo they don't matter anymore, winning does LMFAO. Also, :lol I forgot how elite Mchale and Bickerstaff's systems were.....

Truth is stats don't matter to Ginobili player fans because Parker (and many many many other players) have superior numbers. It's all about :cry heart :cry and :cry ball diving :cry

Son, I'm all in favour of stats, but in context. What's the point of comparing stats of players with different roles, different eras, and different systems. If I want I can come up with trully advanced stats that show that Ginobili is on par with any player of the last decade, tbh.

[DAF86]

It was never a competition. Latinos will stick with Latinos, like in boxing. Real fans know HOTS was and will always be better. End of discussion. Not wasting anymore of my time discussing the obvious (which numbers prove)

https://i.giphy.com/14c4yIVAVWZgnm.gif

[daledondale]

http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/18095021_1438951056125809_8015052824293408768_n.jp g


https://i.giphy.com/14c4yIVAVWZgnm.gif:lmao

[Pocho La Pantera]

Son, I'm all in favour of stats, but in context. What's the point of comparing stats of players with different roles, different eras, and different systems. If I want I can come up with trully advanced stats that show that Ginobili is on par with any player of the last decade, tbh.
:lol

[DMC]

Fan polls are about fans, not players.

Prime Parker was the real HOTS and Manu came off the bench. While it's important to have a great bench, Tony would destroy Houston's weak interior defense in his prime. Manu would do fine as well, but no better than Harden is doing getting to the rim. I'd rather have a PG who pushes the ball in transition and scores 1 on 3 with ease than a crafty player who is prone to committing idiotic fouls in the heat of battle because he just has to do something.

[DAF86]

Fan polls are about fans, not players.

Prime Parker was the real HOTS and Manu came off the bench. While it's important to have a great bench, Tony would destroy Houston's weak interior defense in his prime. Manu would do fine as well, but no better than Harden is doing getting to the rim. I'd rather have a PG who pushes the ball in transition and scores 1 on 3 with ease than a crafty player who is prone to committing idiotic fouls in the heat of battle because he just has to do something.

Another one for the book. :lol

[DMC]

Another one for the book. :lol

:cry countryman

[TheGreatYacht]

When you can't counter stats and facts. Throw some memes, gifs, and emojis in there.

[Clipper Nation]

You want facts and stats? Here goes:


Addressing the "Big 3" myth:

Spurs won three titles in five years from 2003-2007. Here's the playoff stats for all the Spurs rotation players in that time period:

http://s5.postimg.org/om3v3tvdj/Spurs_03_07.png

Tim and Manu are the only two players with:

20+ PER
6+ BPM
10+ win shares
.200+ WS/48(DRob also qualifies for this but he only played in 2003)

These two guys were dominant - by far the two best players on the team. They were pretty much the Shaq/Kobe of the Spurs. Everybody else was a role player. No idea where the big three nonsense came from. Duncan and Manu were a Big Two back then.

[Phenomanul]

Lmfao prime Manu wasn't even close to this Harden, tbh.

Player fans see euro steps and turnovers, and they automatically think they would be the same in their primes Lmfao.....

Ginobili from ages 25-27 PER-36:
16.5ppg, 5.1rpg, 4.4apg, 2.6TO, 57.0TS%, 19.0PER, 24.3WS, 5.2BPM

Harden from ages 25-27:
28.5ppg, 6.6rpg, 8.5apg, 4.8TO, 60.5TS%, 26.4PER, 44.7WS, 8.4BPM

Keep in mind Harden did this against starting units and with teams focusing on stopping him

You are as dishonest as you are disingenuous... Manu's Rookie Year was when he was 25. So you are basically taking Manu's stats from his first three years in the league and comparing it to Harden's 6th, 7th and 8th seasons respectively - as if that didn't matter at all. Statistically, one of Manu's best years of his career was when he was 28 (which was beyond the limit of your criteria).

Then you are always complaining about Manu's turnovers and yet you willfully chose to ignore this category in your comparison. In the age span you chose (given Harden's current age), Manu's PER-36 turnover rate is 2.63 TOV/game - Harden's PER-36 turnover rate is 4.63 TOV/game. But Ginobili actually gives you something on D, his PER-36 steals rate is 2.20 STL/game - Harden's is 1.67 STL/game. In 8 seasons Harden's DRtg has never been below 103. In 15 seasons Ginobili's DRtg has only been above 103 three times. Manu's career NET rating (ORtg - DRtg) is 13 - Harden's is 11.

Harden's recent numbers explosion comes from having the reigns in D'Antoni's 7-seconds or less offense. We never saw prime Manu in such a system but I could assure you that his numbers would be even better than under the plodding pace of Pop's system during those years.

[Pocho La Pantera]

You want facts and stats? Here goes: close thread.

[DAF86]

When you can't counter stats and facts. Throw some memes, gifs, and emojis in there.

Ethered just one post below. :lol

[Phenomanul]

I think prime manu would be Nº 1 SG today. Harden, Thompson or Butler aren't good as manu was.

What's crazy is that Manu could even outplay someone like Klay in their ill-fated series today... way past his prime... playing on pure heart.

[daledondale]

What's crazy is that Manu could even outplay someone like Klay in their ill-fated series today... way past his prime... playing on pure heart.
Of course, klay had some issues to stop a 40 year old manu, imagine against this manu:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t1q_6DMDqWE

[daledondale]

What's crazy is that Manu could even outplay someone like Klay in their ill-fated series today... way past his prime... playing on pure heart.
Of course, klay had some issues to stop a 40 year old manu, imagine against this manu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1q_6DMDqWE&app=desktop

[TDomination]

Man this would be such a tough choice.

Parker had the ability to break down any defense and would be able to drive in all day against these warriors. Parker struggles against big teams, like when thunder would put sefolosha on him, or suns would put Shawn Marion, but warriors are a perimeter team offense being their best defense, he would eat them alive in the paint. Curry wouldn't be able to keep up, neither would Thompson, Durant would be their best bet but he ain't that quick and besides, then at that point he could just feed the ball to the big man. Regardless we would win points in the paint every game.

with Prime manu, he would be a perfect complement off the bench to kawhi. Manu had the ability to run point, play the 2 or even the 3. He also had the ability to break down a defense and force his will. One thing I loved about him was how frustrated players would get by guarding him. I remember him getting elbowed, pushed against Denver back in the day because he tore them up. I can't imagine how frustrated draymond green would get trying to stop Manu, swiping at the ball but instead just creating an and 1 for Manu. Draymond would probably try to nut kick Manu out of frustration. Warriors would have zero answer for Manu.

But i had to choose, I would only choose Manu if we were able to keep the Parker that we saw in the playoffs this year. He did a pretty good job and with prime Manu coming off the bench, I can guarantee patty would find his shooting touch and Pau would be able to get easy looks. Not too mention Simmons, man we'd be a really good team.

[Play Boban]

How would almost 40 year old Manu compare to almost 40 year old Porker tbh? Manu is still scoring 21 points in key games against the Warriors. Porker will probably be in a wheelchair and be 300 lbs. by the time he's Manu's age tbh. :cry

[BSfromTX]

You would never see a key defensive play From Parker like manus block on harden...... Even in his prime.

Manu and it's not even debatable.