Would anyone take Pele over Ronaldo or Messi?

[Bynumite]

Not gonna put Maradona in this conversation because the 80's were not that long ago but Pele to me is like the Bill Russell of football. Accomplished quite a lot but i gotta question the level of competition back when he played in the 50's/60's. The game just feels ancient and quite different whenever i see his highlights. He also spent most of his career playing in Brazil.

Replace Neymar with Pele in today's brazilian NT and is he a game changer? Discuss.

[Canyonero]

I would

[TheGreatYacht]

I'd take Ronaldo over him. Definitely no on the midget though

[Kawhitstorm]

I'd take Ronaldo over him. Definitely no on the midget though

Midget wouldn't last a half against West Germany.:lol

[TheGreatYacht]

Midget wouldn't last a half against West Germany.:lol
:lmao

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol pele the most overrated kent, if he had no wc trophies, would anyone even talk about him?

[lefty]

lol pele the most overrated kent, if he had no wc trophies, would anyone even talk about him?

Messi has no WC trophy yet people talk about him

[diego]

And penaldo has won a wc?

Yknow I dog Pele a lot, IMO he only really won one wc, and no way he scores as many goals ad he did in a more modern era/ outside of brasil, that said, he was way better than penaldo. Penaldo never got hit as hard/often as Pele did, and Pele didn't need hundreds of penalties nor did he trip over himself once a game.

As for messi, they are similar in that they played on mostly stacked teams, but Messi never had the physical advantage Pele did, you could make a good argument for either

[lefty]

And penaldo has won a wc?

Yknow I dog Pele a lot, IMO he only really won one wc, and no way he scores as many goals ad he did in a more modern era/ outside of brasil, that said, he was way better than penaldo. Penaldo never got hit as hard/often as Pele did, and Pele didn't need hundreds of penalties nor did he trip over himself once a game.

As for messi, they are similar in that they played on mostly stacked teams, but Messi never had the physical advantage Pele did, you could make a good argument for either
CR hasn't won a WC and never will, but people like to compare Misty with the GOAT WC winners; sorry, but ............ :lmao


An ROnaldo won the Euro, while Misty had the chance to win CA TWICE


TWICE


So




Yeah






:lmao

[dfens]

And penaldo has won a wc?

Yknow I dog Pele a lot, IMO he only really won one wc, and no way he scores as many goals ad he did in a more modern era/ outside of brasil, that said, he was way better than penaldo. Penaldo never got hit as hard/often as Pele did, and Pele didn't need hundreds of penalties nor did he trip over himself once a game.

As for messi, they are similar in that they played on mostly stacked teams, but Messi never had the physical advantage Pele did, you could make a good argument for either

pele is ranked properly tbh, his football intelligence, in game adaptability and positioning were very underrated, with modern training/eating/coaching he'd do great. Sure, if you'd stick him in the middle of it, without a lifetime of training/eating/coaching he'd suck, but that's valid for anything from 70 years ago.

[Brazil]

what kind of question is that ? :lol does not make any sense

[Brazil]

Its like saying who would you take to run a 100 m today, carl lewis or Viquaut ? :lol dumb

[lefty]

what kind of question is that ? :lol does not make any sense
https://media.tenor.co/images/6e622f32bd634e60889dc22a0d33700f/raw

[diego]

CR hasn't won a WC and never will, but people like to compare Misty with the GOAT WC winners; sorry, but ............ :lmao


An ROnaldo won the Euro, while Misty had the chance to win CA TWICE


TWICE


So




Yeah






:lmao

Portugal lost the final ronaldo played (at home, to Greece) and won the one he didn't. :lmao

Messi > penaldo I don't waste time arguing obvious things lefty, I know you're a Madrid fan but can you honestly root for a child who is constantly crying and throwing tantrums on the field?

[lefty]

So much salt tbh :lol

[Amuseddaysleeper]

lefty knows Messi >>> Penaldo


No manager in the world would take Penaldo over Messi.

[Bynumite]

lefty knows Messi >>> Penaldo


No manager in the world would take Penaldo over Messi.

Every former Argentina manager coach killed by midget would probably take Ronaldo imho.

[lefty]

lefty knows Messi >>> Penaldo


No manager in the world would take Penaldo over Messi.
So no manager would take an Alpha over an HGH abusing midget who can't win shit without Xaviniesta and Neymarez, who can't win shit despite having better NT teammates than CR?

Is this some kind of alternate beta dimension?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

So no manager would take an Alpha over an HGH abusing midget who can't win shit without Xaviniesta and Neymarez, who can't win shit despite having better NT teammates than CR?

Is this some kind of alternate beta dimension?

Penaldo's teammates win a euro without him

Messi's teammates can't even beat Bolivia.

Ronaldo's NT teammates >>>>>>> Messi's.

The argentina NT as a whole is a joke. I could understand if without Messi they played well but that's not the case. Without Penaldo, Portugal looked better than they had all tourney.


So yeah, no manager in the world would take Penaldo over Messi.

[Canyonero]

So no manager would take an Alpha over an HGH abusing midget who can't win shit without Xaviniesta and Neymarez, who can't win shit despite having better NT teammates than CR?

Is this some kind of alternate beta dimension?

I'd take Messi for every game until the final tbh. There I would play Benchlando and sub him 8 minutes later.

[Bynumite]

Penaldo's teammates win a euro without him

Messi's teammates can't even beat Bolivia.

Ronaldo's NT teammates >>>>>>> Messi's.

The argentina NT as a whole is a joke. I could understand if without Messi they played well but that's not the case. Without Penaldo, Portugal looked better than they had all tourney.


So yeah, no manager in the world would take Penaldo over Messi.

Midget's teammates rang at the WC and Euro with Barca's team minus midget :wakeup

Argentina would most likely rang too if they removed the cancer from the team.

[TheGreatYacht]

Every former Argentina manager coach killed by midget would probably take Ronaldo imho.

So no manager would take an Alpha over an HGH abusing midget who can't win shit without Xaviniesta and Neymarez, who can't win shit despite having better NT teammates than CR?

Is this some kind of alternate beta dimension?
:lmao

cant believe I actually saw a Missi fan say "Eder and Pepe >>>> Aguero, ADM, Higuain, Mascherano, Tevez, Zabaleta, Otamendi, Dybala, Higuain, Lavezzi, Pastore, etc, etc"

[lefty]

:lmao

cant believe I actually saw a Missi fan say "Eder and Pepe >>>> Aguero, ADM, Higuain, Mascherano, Tevez, Zabaleta, Otamendi, Dybala, Higuain, Lavezzi, Pastore, etc, etc"

:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

:lmao

cant believe I actually saw a Missi fan say "Eder and Pepe >>>> Aguero, ADM, Higuain, Mascherano, Tevez, Zabaleta, Otamendi, Dybala, Higuain, Lavezzi, Pastore, etc, etc"

We're talking about the same fan base who has claimed Rooney >>> Eto'O & Benzema >>> Ibrahimovic :lmao

[140]

:lmao

cant believe I actually saw a Missi fan say "Eder and Pepe >>>> Aguero, ADM, Higuain, Mascherano, Tevez, Zabaleta, Otamendi, Dybala, Higuain, Lavezzi, Pastore, etc, etc"


We're talking about the same fan base who has claimed Rooney >>> Eto'O & Benzema >>> Ibrahimovic :lmao
:lmao:lmao:lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

We're talking about the same fan base who has claimed Rooney >>> Eto'O & Benzema >>> Ibrahimovic :lmao
:lmao

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Messi has the more talented teammates, but again look at how poor Argentina is when Messi doesn't play. Yet you guys conveniently forget to mention that. And also conveniently ignore the fact that Pepe was one of the best players of the Euro's, their manager was fantastic and the team won a FINAL without penaldo.


The biggest moment of Penaldo's career is him being on the sidelines :lol

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Midget's teammates rang at the WC and Euro with Barca's team minus midget :wakeup

Argentina would most likely rang too if they removed the cancer from the team.


I'm talking National teammates, pay attention. Penaldo's teammates from RM also rang a WC and Euro too, hate to break it to you.


Argentina has consistently been shit even without the "cancer" you speak of. They can't even beat Paraguay or Bolivia without him.


Fact, Messi without Argentina <<<<< Portugal without Penaldo.

[dunkman]

Pelé stayed in Brazil, but at the time they were playing the best football in the world. Out of his +1000 goals, more than 500 were in friendlies, so Ronaldo and Messi are near in official goals. Pelé was very fast, strong and could jump +1m for headers, fantastic technique, I think he would be great in any era. Neymar doesn't have an elite aerial game, neither do Messi.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Pelé stayed in Brazil, but at the time they were playing the best football in the world. Out of his +1000 goals, more than 500 were in friendlies, so Ronaldo and Messi are near in official goals. Pelé was very fast, strong and could jump +1m for headers, fantastic technique, I think he would be great in any era. Neymar doesn't have an elite aerial game, neither do Messi.

But Neymar and Messi have an elite playmaking and building game, they would have had an absolute field day in Pele's era.

[dfens]

But Neymar and Messi have an elite playmaking and building game, they would have had an absolute field day in Pele's era.

Sorry to disrupt this brilliant back and fourth about who is the better player between pepe or misty but tbh pele's era was like that because of several reasons.

based on 70 years of footballing evolution and having access to all possible information from the previous eras included but not limited to:
- tactical (why did brasil fail in '82 with such talent, why england style sucks, why pressing is good, etc)
- technical (how to do a rabona, chilena, etc)
- technological (how to do X)
- nutrition related (what when and how much to eat)
- financial (the game is now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back then in terms of $$$)
- training (what muscles to train, interval training, what position best suits me, how to gain lateral quickness)
- medical (high quality steroids, easier to control drug/alchol addictions)
it's no wonder misty or neymar would look like gods 70 years ago. Without a time machine it's also impossible and pointless. You can't compare a dude outside of his environment. You put misty in the 60s and in 10 years a whole new generation of players would learn all his tricks, the cute fast dribbling style, the barcelona cuts, the skills, everything tbh, how to defend against such a player. In another 10 tactics would also generally improve towards pressing a team with a player like messi to deny the ball. Like anything else the game is quite alive and nobody stays on top without constant adaptation.

Imo the game has also regressed:
- toughness (compare '78 finals with '14 finals :lol). A bunch of faggots these days I tell you.
- mental (access to feminist psychologists, whore-on-call-analtherapist vs niggas learning football on the street or playing in future/past World War encounters)
- too much exposure, no time for the players to disconnect.
- loyalty and effort : too much money and too many sellouts have eroded what football is really about: winning as a team. When players go to their NT they don't give it all, it's just another day at the office.
- fan leniency on flopping -> shitty game.

I will tell you one thing that is lost these days, the true killer instinct/seize the moment superstar, like dad killer, like maradroga, like zidane. This lack of street toughness is making all this new talent stagnate in the face of greatness. These old niggas knew to take the punches head on and to grab a game by the throat in the face of pressure. You wouldn't hear zidane saying "the ball is too far back, xavi pls bring it:depressed". These new soft betas need perfect conditions and they create a fucking circus everytime shit goes bad (kome, lebeta, misty, penaldo, neymar, bra7il). When they start getting older they finally start to man up but they never peak athletically as men. There is no big difference in natural talent imo, just benefits of increased game training/tactical/exposure/financial/etc experience, and yes, 20, 30, 50 or 70 years of game evolution will definately make them better if compared raw, but maradona with today's training would be absolutely crazy. Imagine this nigga without his drug addiction and with proper modern training from age 12.

[lefty]

lol Pele is the one who have a field day in today's era tbh

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Sorry to disrupt this brilliant back and fourth about who is the better player between pepe or misty but tbh pele's era was like that because of several reasons.

based on 70 years of footballing evolution and having access to all possible information from the previous eras included but not limited to:
- tactical (why did brasil fail in '82 with such talent, why england style sucks, why pressing is good, etc)
- technical (how to do a rabona, chilena, etc)
- technological (how to do X)
- nutrition related (what when and how much to eat)
- financial (the game is now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back then in terms of $$$)
- training (what muscles to train, interval training, what position best suits me, how to gain lateral quickness)
- medical (high quality steroids, easier to control drug/alchol addictions)
it's no wonder misty or neymar would look like gods 70 years ago. Without a time machine it's also impossible and pointless. You can't compare a dude outside of his environment. You put misty in the 60s and in 10 years a whole new generation of players would learn all his tricks, the cute fast dribbling style, the barcelona cuts, the skills, everything tbh, how to defend against such a player. In another 10 tactics would also generally improve towards pressing a team with a player like messi to deny the ball. Like anything else the game is quite alive and nobody stays on top without constant adaptation.

Imo the game has also regressed:
- toughness (compare '78 finals with '14 finals :lol). A bunch of faggots these days I tell you.
- mental (access to feminist psychologists, whore-on-call-analtherapist vs niggas learning football on the street or playing in future/past World War encounters)
- too much exposure, no time for the players to disconnect.
- loyalty and effort : too much money and too many sellouts have eroded what football is really about: winning as a team. When players go to their NT they don't give it all, it's just another day at the office.
- fan leniency on flopping -> shitty game.

I will tell you one thing that is lost these days, the true killer instinct/seize the moment superstar, like dad killer, like maradroga, like zidane. This lack of street toughness is making all this new talent stagnate in the face of greatness. These old niggas knew to take the punches head on and to grab a game by the throat in the face of pressure. You wouldn't hear zidane saying "the ball is too far back, xavi pls bring it:depressed". These new soft betas need perfect conditions and they create a fucking circus everytime shit goes bad (kome, lebeta, misty, penaldo, neymar, bra7il). When they start getting older they finally start to man up but they never peak athletically as men. There is no big difference in natural talent imo, just benefits of increased game training/tactical/exposure/financial/etc experience, and yes, 20, 30, 50 or 70 years of game evolution will definately make them better if compared raw, but maradona with today's training would be absolutely crazy. Imagine this nigga without his drug addiction and with proper modern training from age 12.

dfens, damn good post :tu

[Kawhitstorm]

it's no wonder misty or neymar would look like gods 70 years ago. Without a time machine it's also impossible and pointless. You can't compare a dude outside of his environment. You put misty in the 60s and in 10 years a whole new generation of players would learn all his tricks, the cute fast dribbling style, the barcelona cuts, the skills, everything tbh, how to defend against such a player. In another 10 tactics would also generally improve towards pressing a team with a player like messi to deny the ball. Like anything else the game is quite alive and nobody stays on top without constant adaptation.

The contrast b/w the '86 & '90 WC was proof that you can't fool world-class teams w/ the same trick for that long even w/ a prodigious talent.

As far as Missi being better than DieGOAT, Simeone is out there playing 20th century Serie A Catenaccio defense to shutdown Barca while DieGOAT beasted in Serie A.:lol

No striker also shat on Serie A defense as much as Fat Ronaldo did in '97-'98 without poaching.

[dfens]

The contrast b/w the '86 & '90 WC was proof that you can't fool world-class teams w/ the same trick for that long even w/ a prodigious talent.

As far as Missi being better than DieGOAT, Simone is out there playing 20th century Serie A Catenaccio defense to shutdown Barca while DieGOAT beasted in Serie A.:lol

No striker also shat on Serie A defense as much as Fat Ronaldo did in '97-'98 without pouching.

Simeone is playing a brand new style of catenaccio, serie A teams are learning from it imo, not the other way around. This new style has more to do in spirit than in tactics with old school catenaccio tbh. There are no sweepers, no staying deep, no central wings (basically 4 postionally central and 2 lateral), and so on. Simeone is playing a defense in depth kind of strategy, they stay in their half but the defensive pressure mounts really fast and they are very compact while not lying deep. Also their quick counter play is their first defense as it puts positional pressure on the other team. Atletico also need lateral rotation heavily and this style is imo quite taxing on the lateral midfield/lwb/rwb/rb/lb positionally active players, so you can sometimes see their flanks getting demolished in some late games. Imo it's more of a great counter against stronger teams than a full blown team strategy, as it can be seen in atletico's results.
As I always say, teams adapt and teams that can't adapt go through trouble, even stacked teams like barca.

Diego played in a brutal but not exceptionally tactical era in italy imo. Misty wouldn't have survived that era tbh, but he would've been just as effective while healthy.

I was actually thinking with a friend who coaches a d4 team that maradona's style wasn't as close quarters as messi's because the physicality of the game was just that much greater and attacking players naturally sought separation (loose play) instead of direct cutesy penetration (tight) like today, just from self preservation reasons. tbh maradona would probably play a tighter game as it is more efficient in this era. Come to think of it, the whole football game has been tightened and this is a big reason why the physicality has been brought way down and the flopping is waaaaay up. I dislike this style, it's too tight for me, but it's easy to sell this brand of posse player we got today. Hopefully when the masses get bored they'll change the game back. The big boys know where the $$$ is.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The contrast b/w the '86 & '90 WC was proof that you can't fool world-class teams w/ the same trick for that long even w/ a prodigious talent.

As far as Missi being better than DieGOAT, Simone is out there playing 20th century Serie A Catenaccio defense to shutdown Barca while DieGOAT beasted in Serie A.:lol

No striker also shat on Serie A defense as much as Fat Ronaldo did in '97-'98 without pouching.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUBperF3VGE



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUBperF3VGE

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Simeone is playing a brand new style of catenaccio, serie A teams are learning from it imo, not the other way around. This new style has more to do in spirit than in tactics with old school catenaccio tbh. There are no sweepers, no staying deep, no central wings (basically 4 postionally central and 2 lateral), and so on. Simeone is playing a defense in depth kind of strategy, they stay in their half but the defensive pressure mounts really fast and they are very compact while not lying deep. Also their quick counter play is their first defense as it puts positional pressure on the other team. Atletico also need lateral rotation heavily and this style is imo quite taxing on the lateral midfield/lwb/rwb/rb/lb positionally active players, so you can sometimes see their flanks getting demolished in some late games. Imo it's more of a great counter against stronger teams than a full blown team strategy, as it can be seen in atletico's results.
As I always say, teams adapt and teams that can't adapt go through trouble, even stacked teams like barca.

Diego played in a brutal but not exceptionally tactical era in italy imo. Misty wouldn't have survived that era tbh, but he would've been just as effective while healthy.

I was actually thinking with a friend who coaches a d4 team that maradona's style wasn't as close quarters as messi's because the physicality of the game was just that much greater and attacking players naturally sought separation (loose play) instead of direct cutesy penetration (tight) like today, just from self preservation reasons. tbh maradona would probably play a tighter game as it is more efficient in this era. Come to think of it, the whole football game has been tightened and this is a big reason why the physicality has been brought way down and the flopping is waaaaay up. I dislike this style, it's too tight for me, but it's easy to sell this brand of posse player we got today. Hopefully when the masses get bored they'll change the game back. The big boys know where the $$$ is.

This is how I feel about the modern NBA.

[Kawhitstorm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUBperF3VGE



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUBperF3VGE

The the CL happened where Simeone went balls deep.:lol

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The the CL happened where Simeone went balls deep.:lol

They do own us in CL it's true, but m god were Lucho's tactics horrible in last year's CL matchup. Barca has a 2-1 lead on AGG and what does Lucho have the team do? Try to hold the ball for 90 minutes and play as defensive as possible :lol

I appreciate the treble and the two trophies from last season but I hope he leaves after this year.