Is Obama the Worst President Ever?

[mavsfan1000]

I think he is. Attacks Russia. Then goes on vacation. Rinse and repeat. While China actually does some things that are an act of War if Obama was actually a patriot. He doesn't give a damn about this country.

[Winehole23]

do your remember when GWB apologized for the emergency landing of our spy plane in China?

[Winehole23]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/apr/11/china.usa

[Winehole23]

what horseshit

[Nbadan]

:lol

[Winehole23]

Obama, and I'm far from being a fan, isn't the worst president ever.

He came into power at one of our weakest points ever -- the international system of payment was about to fail, if you recall -- and we didn't go tits up. Held shit together somehow. Even kept GWB's defense secretary, which was purely optional.

3rd longest continuous stretch of economic growth in our history.

[Winehole23]

to be sure, the rate of growth has been very low, but that's the debt overhang.

fiscal deficit, greatly reduced.

[Nbadan]

to be sure, the rate of growth has been very low, but that's the debt overhang.

fiscal deficit, greatly reduced.

Well, that's what he did for WS....for the avg joe he gave healthcare...which is preciously why the GOP now wants to yank if from 20 million Americans...

[Nbadan]

Interest rates stayed low, as well as price deflation.....good thing because average people's wages aren't keeping up with price increases....

[Winehole23]

didn't, contrary to rampant speculation, ruin the country forever or turn us into terrorist loving reds.

[Nbadan]

Should have pushed harder for a $10 per hour wage increase....

[Winehole23]

Interest rates stayed low, as well as price deflation.....good thing because average people's wages aren't keeping up with price increases....I wonder. Ask anyone with a hospital bill or kids to send to college. Or a mortgage payment. Shit is still totally out of whack.

[Nbadan]

Should have demanded the closure of Guantanamo....especially in his second term...

[Nbadan]

Shit is still totally out of whack.

But universities are filled....look at the growth rates of Texas Universities..

[Nbadan]

Did the right thing by not putting US boots on the ground in Syria....who needs that quagmire?

[Nbadan]

Stopped the CIA rendition and torture of terror suspects....that alone is why he got the Nobel

[Nbadan]

Got gas below $2 per gallon by keeping clear of frackers.....

[Nbadan]

Although he should have done much more at Standing Rock much sooner....

[Winehole23]

approval rating is right up there with Reagan's for an outgoing President...

[Nbadan]

Yeah, but Reagan had advanced stages of Alzheimer....so there is that..

[Winehole23]

But universities are filled....look at the growth rates of Texas Universities..Good luck to them. We don't have jobs commensurate with the training, and it costs them way too much. The states short shrift students and their future prosperity.

Reserve army of traumatized workers, tbh.

Debt is social control. They're in too deep to complain about the jobs they'll get.

[Nbadan]

Allowed spying of US citizens to continue...

[Thread]

Should have demanded the closure of Guantanamo....especially in his second term...

Rush said it would not close. And by God he was right.

[Winehole23]

Allowed spying of US citizens to continue...Agree 100%. Obama normalized GWB's radical expansion of domestic surveillance.

[Winehole23]

Rush said it would not close. And by God he was right.Too bad. We used to be better than that.

[Nbadan]

Debt is social control. Their in too deep to complain about the jobs they'll get.

True, but you can still get ahead of you keep your nose to the grindstone and live a good life...

[Winehole23]

Stopped the CIA rendition and torture of terror suspects....that alone is why he got the NobelDoubtful. The Nobel was awarded before he did a goddamned thing.

[Winehole23]

True, but you can still get ahead of you keep your nose to the grindstone and live a good life...that's the myth. truth is only half of Americans at age thirty make more than their parents and the trend is downward.

it ain't the 1950s anymore.

[Nbadan]

By not standing up against the wars in Libya and the growing war in Syria he has in a way condoned them....including the expansion of NATO into the Balkans..

[Nbadan]

Doubtful. The Nobel was awarded before he did a goddamned thing.

Maybe, but the US lost its moral ground when Bush lawyers condoned torture..Obama fixed that...

[Nbadan]

that's the myth. truth is only half of Americans at age thirty make more than their parents and the trend is downward.

it ain't the 1950s anymore.

Well.. No one wants to work anymore.....what's gone is not the American dream but the 40 hour work week......

[Winehole23]

Bush lawyers condoned torture..Obama fixed that..no he didn't. what's happening in Gitmo is still torture.

forced feeding? indefinite detention?

[Thread]

Too bad. We used to be better than that.

That was 60 years ago, hole.

[Winehole23]

so you agree. we used to be better than that.

[Winehole23]

tell me, what did we gain by being as bad as everyone else?

[Nbadan]

no he didn't. what's happening in Gitmo is still torture.

forced feeding? indefinite detention?

In previous wars these "prisoners" would have earned a bullet in the head....

[Winehole23]

did our reputation and national prestige improve as a result?

was there some measurable gain in public safety? or did it merely slake the popular cry for blood retaliation, even if the detained were in no way guilty?

remember, most -- about 75% -- of the Gitmo detainees were released under GWB because we had no good cause to detain them in the first place.

[Winehole23]

In previous wars these "prisoners" would have earned a bullet in the head....Humanitarian Dan says shoot em in the head. Is that the American way?

[Nbadan]

Obama did the same thing for the Auto industry that Trump did for Carrier, only saved millions of taxpaying jobs, and got skewered for it...

[Nbadan]

Humanitarian Dan says shoot em in the head. Is that the American way?

Im not saying it's right/wrong, just is...

[Nbadan]

did our reputation and national prestige improve as a result?

was there some measurable gain in public safety?

We gained nothing from torture...but lost any moral high ground we may have had...

[mavsfan1000]

Trump is like Reagan. Obama is like junk food. Eventually, it will catch up to you.

[Nbadan]

Even if you already had private health care, you still benefited from the ACA....kids are now covered on parents policies until they turn 26

[Winehole23]

Obama did the same thing for the Auto industry that Trump did for Carrier, only saved millions of taxpaying jobs, and got skewered for it...Yep. Crony capitalism is back in style. Maybe it never went out of style.

[Winehole23]

Trump is like Reagan. Obama is like junk food. Eventually, it will catch up to you.How trite. WTF does that even mean?

[Nbadan]

Trump is like Reagan. Obama is like junk food. Eventually, it will catch up to you.

would Reagan have trusted Putin?

[Nbadan]

Yep. Crony capitalism is back in style. Maybe it never went out of style.

I don't think its crony when you are saving a whole industry...

[mavsfan1000]

would Reagan have trusted Putin?
Reagan would be more worried about China.

[mavsfan1000]

How trite. WTF does that even mean?
It means Obama was a short fix. But it eventually will grow bad habits for the country. Laziness that will weaken us. Just like a bad diet.

[Nbadan]

Perhaps the most troubling is the Obama Administration took a back seat while the GOP dismantled Voting and Civil rights of minorities...

[Winehole23]

I don't think its crony when you are saving a whole industry...national industrial policy. the auto industry is global. if foreign firms ran their companies better, didn't they deserve to win?

free trade isn't free if you protect the home court.

IN FOR A PENNY IN FOR A POUND: why limit yourself to particular firms when you can get a whole sector, management and workers alike, on your side. that's mega-cronyism.

[Winehole23]

Perhaps the most troubling is the Obama Administration took a back seat while the GOP dismantled Voting and Civil rights of minorities...wasn't in its purview. SCOTUS, a coequal branch of government, set that ball rolling.

[Winehole23]

It means Obama was a short fix. But it eventually will grow bad habits for the country. Laziness that will weaken us. Just like a bad diet.Laziness with respect to what?

[Nbadan]

national industrial policy. the auto industry is global. if foreign firms ran their companies better, didn't they deserve to win?

free trade isn't free if you protect the home court.

Most foreign firms build their cars in the US now....but the Auto industry is one industry that Americans can still be competitive in.....

[Nbadan]

wasn't in its purview. SCOTUS, a coequal branch of government, set that ball rolling.

Maybe, but it was the GOP legislature that gave those ideas the power of the purse...

[Winehole23]

Maybe, but it was the GOP legislature that gave those ideas the power of the purse...you're all over the place. are you talking about redistricting now?

[Nbadan]

...and Obama acquiescence every step of the way...

[Winehole23]

Well.. No one wants to work anymore.....what's gone is not the American dream but the 40 hour work week......bullshit. Americans work longer for less than they have since the first half of the 20th century.

[Winehole23]

...and Obama acquiescence every step of the way...what can Obama do about redistricting in the states?

[Nbadan]

What did Obama in though was his unabated support for Trade deals like the TPP....

[Nbadan]

what can Obama do about redistricting in the states?

Federal challenges....encourage the Judicial branch to look into them....

[Winehole23]

Reagan would be more worried about China.why?

[Winehole23]

Federal challenges....encourage the Judicial branch to look into them....under what authority? SCOTUS already severed it.

[Nbadan]

The Democrats can spin the dislike for Hillary any way they want....had Hillary supported Labor in the Rust Belt she would have won....

[Winehole23]

What did Obama in though was his unabated support for Trade deals like the TPP....What did him in is he's black and has a funny name. Other than that, he's a milquetoast Republican.

[Winehole23]

The Democrats can spin the dislike for Hillary any way they want....had Hillary supported Labor in the Rust Belt she would have won....Dems gave that up 25 years ago, HRC included. She thought coddling coastal limousine liberal elites and throwing sops to identitarian progressives would win. She was wrong.

[Nbadan]

What did him in is he's black and has a funny name. Other than that, he's a milquetoast Republican.

obama campaigned as a populist, but Governed as a Centrist...

[Nbadan]

Dems gave that up 20 years ago, HRC included. She thought coddling coastal limousine liberal elites and throwing sops to identitarian progressives would win. She was wrong.

Was she? She won the popular vote.....

Thanks to the EC, Presidential politics is regional... and that's why it needs to be abolished..

[Nbadan]

....his pro Goldman Sacs policies is why Obama is not a great President.....he should have had the AG go after banksters who robbed people...

[Winehole23]

Was she? She won the popular vote.....

Thanks to the EC, Presidential politics is regional... and that's why it needs to be abolished..it's a feature, not a bug.

you can't ignore the country mouse and so-called flyover country and win.

[Winehole23]

....his pro Goldman Sacs policies is why Obama is not a great President.....he should have had the AG go after banksters who robbed people...I don't think Obama is great, btw.

I merely objected to the highly speculative claim that he's the worst ever.

[Nbadan]

it's a feature, not a bug.

How can a anyone be a legitimate leader when he won by less than 80k votes but really lost by 2.5 million....

[Nbadan]

I don't think Obama is great, btw.

I merely objected to the highly speculative claim that he's the worst ever.

Obama is far from the worst....Bush was much closer.....Probably in the Top 5...

[Winehole23]

The claim seems more emotive than factually based. I'm not even sure what objective basis one could claim for being the worst. Most ineffectual? Most corrupt?

How can one measure the good or harm a President -- all by himself -- does?

[Winehole23]

How can a anyone be a legitimate leader when he won by less than 80k votes but really lost by 2.5 million....we have a snooty republican system. it's according to the foundational compact, so it's legit.

everyone knew the rules going in. HRC lost.

[Nbadan]

How can one measure the good or harm a President -- all by himself -- does?

Well, this is hardly one of the worst Presidential cabinets......that alone disqualifies Obama as "the worst ever"

[Winehole23]

when DJT thought he was going to lose, he bad mouthed the Electoral College too.

would he have been right if the roles were reversed?

[Nbadan]

we have a snooty republican system. it's according to the foundational compact, so it's legit.

everyone knew the rules going in. HRC lost.

The system is rigged, remember? Maybe Trump was justifying Russian hacking to fix a system which was less rigged than anyone imagined....

[Winehole23]

Dan, that barely makes sense

[Nbadan]

All it took was swinging a few thousand votes in the right places, even Silver knew this...

[Nbadan]

Hack those votes, and you have a game changer....

[Nbadan]

There should be an immediate congressional investigation into why Comey reopened the Hillary email investigation so close to the election, only to say that there was nothing there just a few days later...

[Nbadan]

Comey's head should be rolling......

[Winehole23]

you're flailing Dan. even Obama says there's no reason to think the polls were hacked.

[Winehole23]

and HRC lost the election long before Comey reinserted his foot in his mouth.

[Winehole23]

though I do agree that's a good reason to can him. LE is supposed to stay the hell away from election day.

[Nbadan]

you're flailing Dan. even Obama says there's no reason to think the polls were hacked.

The FBI cares to differ....

[Nbadan]

and HRC lost the election long before Comey reinserted his foot in his mouth.

Enough voters to change the outcome in swing states made up their minds the last 2 days before the election...so yeah, the baseless Comey Oct surprise worked against Hillary...

[mavsfan1000]

Laziness with respect to what?
Obamabucks. Haven't you heard? Obama gives out pretty nice welfare. But it discourages working. Socialistic ideals. We know what the ending to countries with Socialism. They all become equally poor.

[Chucho]

No, he isnt. Top Five , maybe top seven.

[mavsfan1000]

why?
China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters - rips it out of water and takes it to China in unprecedented act.

[Thread]

China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters - rips it out of water and takes it to China in unprecedented act.

But, there is no room on the docket for this Drone Situation. We're too busy with Putin & Russia and manipulating that hither & to. Maybe after Monday if the Electors hold fast in the ranks. We've been waiting on that as well. Quietly though, not like the Russia Situation. + stink pot laid his eggs and went to HI.. So there is that.

+ you know Media hasn't told us this Drone Situation is a big deal. Even Fox can't get off the snide. They're too busy choosing Xmas songs to play while the pretty women neatly fold their one leg one over the other so there is absolutely no fucking way you can even glimpse what's up there. And by God they never make a mistake. Ever. I've been watching since Trump took Hillary out and I've yet to see anything.

[Thread]

so you agree. we used to be better than that.

Yes, 60 years ago. That ship will not be coming around again, hole. Ever.

[Winehole23]

So what did we get, Thread? Was it worth it?

In this case, it wasn't even expedient. We got bupkis from torturing people.

[Winehole23]

China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters - rips it out of water and takes it to China in unprecedented act.what sort of response would be sufficiently patriotic, in youe view?

[Winehole23]

China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters - rips it out of water and takes it to China in unprecedented act.why only a partial quote?

DJT sez let em keep it.

[CosmicCowboy]

But, there is no room on the docket for this Drone Situation. We're too busy with Putin & Russia and manipulating that hither & to. Maybe after Monday if the Electors hold fast in the ranks. We've been waiting on that as well. Quietly though, not like the Russia Situation. + stink pot laid his eggs and went to HI.. So there is that.

+ you know Media hasn't told us this Drone Situation is a big deal. Even Fox can't get off the snide. They're too busy choosing Xmas songs to play while the pretty women neatly fold their one leg one over the other so there is absolutely no fucking way you can even glimpse what's up there. And by God they never make a mistake. Ever. I've been watching since Trump took Hillary out and I've yet to see anything.

:lmao

[baseline bum]

+ you know Media hasn't told us this Drone Situation is a big deal. Even Fox can't get off the snide. They're too busy choosing Xmas songs to play while the pretty women neatly fold their one leg one over the other so there is absolutely no fucking way you can even glimpse what's up there. And by God they never make a mistake. Ever. I've been watching since Trump took Hillary out and I've yet to see anything.

But we still got this one cubby


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKMWzK9U2mk

[Winehole23]

lol unpresidented

[mavsfan1000]

what sort of response would be sufficiently patriotic, in youe view?
Not sure exactly. But something should be done. It seems Obama only cares about supporting HRC at all costs. Thus, making Russia the enemy since they need a excuse for why she lost.

[Winehole23]

Trump sez let em keep it. Why don't you repeat that too?

[dbreiden83080]

Wasn't unemployment like 20% when he took over for that genius?

[florige]

Wasn't unemployment like 20% when he took over for that genius?

I'm not sure this thread can be taken seriously.

[boutons_deux]

I'm not sure this thread can be taken seriously.

it typifies the alternate reality these rightwingassholes mistake for real

[DMX7]

I think he is. Attacks Russia. Then goes on vacation. Rinse and repeat. While China actually does some things that are an act of War if Obama was actually a patriot. He doesn't give a damn about this country.

Jesus, you're stupid.

[Rust Cohle]

why?
Russians looks like us. Chinese look all weird and chinky.

[Rust Cohle]

I'm not sure this thread can be taken seriously.
Seems like a kid who just started following politics 3 months ago.

[Wild Cobra]

Seems like a kid who just started following politics 3 months ago.

Is this another Chump ID?

[Rust Cohle]

China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters - rips it out of water and takes it to China in unpresidented act.
Fixed

[Avante]

I didn't realize just how cool Obama was until we got stuck with Trump and Clinton. He has some class, knows how to act. Yep, that black man cool.

I think all of us have...."how in the hell did this idiot become a billionaire"....with Trump. Then again he is the perfect example of....only in America.

[mavsfan1000]

I didn't realize just how cool Obama was until we got stuck with Trump and Clinton. He has some class, knows how to act. Yep, that black man cool.

I think all of us have...."how in the hell did this idiot become a billionaire"....with Trump. Then again he is the perfect example of....only in America.
Obama is an idiot. Talks cool. Stupid thoughts.

[Thread]

He's a race baiter and a divider. Doesn't even have the decency on the way out to try and bring the country together. Oh, no, not this fuck. Has to harangue Republican voters.

The crumb bum.

[Thread]

I didn't realize just how cool Obama was until we got stuck with Trump and Clinton. He has some class, knows how to act. Yep, that black man cool.

I think all of us have...."how in the hell did this idiot become a billionaire"....with Trump. Then again he is the perfect example of....only in America.

Don't speak for me, Avante. Barry has no class. He's a piss pot malcontent who employs the commodity of incite to riot as his main frame.

Get the fuck out.

[Thread]

Fixed

Only pussies & assholes do the spelling indictment.

[boutons_deux]

I didn't realize just how cool Obama was until we got stuck with Trump and Clinton. He has some class, knows how to act. Yep, that black man cool.

I think all of us have...."how in the hell did this idiot become a billionaire"....with Trump. Then again he is the perfect example of....only in America.

To repeat, starting with the $40M (which he lost) from Daddy and needed Daddy to bail him out, Trash has been outperformed by both the stock market and the real estate market.

And of course, we don't know how many $Bs he has, but people think it's a lot less than his $10B lie.

[Pelicans78]

GWB is the worst president in my lifetime. Not even close.

[rmt]

To repeat, starting with the $40M (which he lost) from Daddy and needed Daddy to bail him out, Trash has been outperformed by both the stock market and the real estate market.

And of course, we don't know how many $Bs he has, but people think it's a lot less than his $10B lie.

And again, you're not accounting for his lavish lifestyle. You can't just re-invest and re-invest and take out for his (massive) living expenses.

[SpursforSix]

what sort of response would be sufficiently patriotic, in youe view?

I think the US need to activate the drone and have it start shooting its Chinese captors.

[DMX7]

Wasn't unemployment like 20% when he took over for that genius?


I'm not sure this thread can be taken seriously.

According to Trump, it's like still higher than that even now. :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

U-6 is still almost 10%

[boutons_deux]

U-6 is still almost 10%

Yep it's Obama's fault, right?

[CosmicCowboy]

Yep it's Obama's fault, right?

I didn't say that, fuckwad.

[Th'Pusher]

U-6 is still almost 10%

What was it when Obama took office?

[boutons_deux]

I didn't say that, fuckwad.

but we know you hate the knitter and adore Don The Con, so the subtext is blatant.

[florige]

GWB is the worst president in my lifetime. Not even close.



I would say that Trump would probably wind up topping GWB as the all time worst President in history, but I doubt he will get re-elected. 4 years may not give him the needed time to top GWB. But we are talking about Trump here so I guess anything is possible.

[spursistan]

No, but he is probably the most overrated POTUS ever due to the "coolness" factor and him being scandal-free on personal level..

Bush father and Clinton legacies/achievement in Economy and International politics trump that of Obama's , and that's only speaking of last 25 years or so of US history..

[mavsfan1000]

I would say that Trump would probably wind up topping GWB as the all time worst President in history, but I doubt he will get re-elected. 4 years may not give him the needed time to top GWB. But we are talking about Trump here so I guess anything is possible.
Well you thought wrong. Trump is the next Reagan. Good times are here again.

[Wild Cobra]

Well you thought wrong. Trump is the next Reagan. Good times are here again.

That could very well be true, but I have to see it before I will believe it.

At least he isn't Hillary.

[Spurtacular]

Obama, and I'm far from being a fan, isn't the worst president ever.

He came into power at one of our weakest points ever -- the international system of payment was about to fail, if you recall -- and we didn't go tits up. Held shit together somehow. Even kept GWB's defense secretary, which was purely optional.

3rd longest continuous stretch of economic growth in our history.

If I were to buy your premise that the sky was falling, what can you point to that Obama did to stop it?

[Rust Cohle]

I'm a cock
Fixed

[Rust Cohle]

If I were to buy your premise that the sky was falling
Buy what premise? Reality????? In 2008 this country was in the fucking shit, nobody on earth disputes that.

[Spurtacular]

Buy what premise? Reality????? In 2008 this country was in the fucking shit, nobody on earth disputes that.

It wasn't at a great economic point. Certainly, people had been screwed by the housing gimmicks. I don't buy the propaganda that we were on the verge of a depression though. But again I ask, what do you think Obama specifically did that was so great for the economy?

[Winehole23]

If I were to buy your premise that the sky was falling, what can you point to that Obama did to stop it?I'm not saying Obama stopped the sky from falling, but he didn't hasten it. He might have if he made the wrong move.

At any rate, the sky didn't fall...yet.

[SnakeBoy]

It wasn't at a great economic point. Certainly, people had been screwed by the housing gimmicks. I don't buy the propaganda that we were on the verge of a depression though. But again I ask, what do you think Obama specifically did that was so great for the economy?

If governments around the world hadn't stepped in it would have been a global depression without doubt. The fact that it was a global crisis should put to rest the idea that it was all Dubya's fault.

I give both Bush and Obama credit for playing their small role in dealing with the economic crisis. Putting that aside, they both sucked in terms of general economic policy as well as foreign policy.

[Spurtacular]

If governments around the world hadn't stepped in it would have been a global depression without doubt. The fact that it was a global crisis should put to rest the idea that it was all Dubya's fault.

I give both Bush and Obama credit for playing their small role in dealing with the economic crisis. Putting that aside, they both sucked in terms of general economic policy as well as foreign policy.

Dubya's fault alone? Clinton had no fault?

I think Bush and Obama did nothing to address the crisis. It just played itself out though. The bailouts were nothing but money for benefactors; and their actions only stopped better more fair corrections from occurring. The partisans want you to overlook that crony capitalism is a cancer.

[Rust Cohle]

It wasn't at a great economic point. Certainly, people had been screwed by the housing gimmicks. I don't buy the propaganda that we were on the verge of a depression though.
LOL I'll take the word of experts over some dipshit on SpursTalk.

But again I ask, what do you think Obama specifically did that was so great for the economy?
Doesn't matter. It went to shit on Bush's watch. It recovered on Obama's watch. That's it and that's all.

[Rust Cohle]

Dubya's fault alone? Clinton had no fault?

I think Bush and Obama did nothing to address the crisis. It just played itself out though. The bailouts were nothing but money for benefactors; and their actions only stopped better more fair corrections from occurring. The partisans want you to overlook that crony capitalism is a cancer.
It was fine on Clinton's watch. It went to shit on Bush's watch. It recovered on Obama's watch. That's it and that's all.

[Winehole23]

That's not nothing. In fact, it's slightly better than nothing.

To hand off the republic relatively uninpaired -- or about as good when you got it -- is honorable service to the office and the country.

[Winehole23]

It's basically the definition of Tory conservatism.

[Winehole23]

Obama will hand it off very slightly improved.

[Wild Cobra]

Obama will hand it off very slightly improved.
If by your definition, you mean hurting the middle class... then yes!

[Spurtacular]

LOL I'll take the word of experts over some dipshit on SpursTalk.

Doesn't matter. It went to shit on Bush's watch. It recovered on Obama's watch. That's it and that's all.

The "experts" are paid handsomely to lie to you, "dipshit."

[Spurtacular]

It was fine on Clinton's watch. It went to shit on Bush's watch. It recovered on Obama's watch. That's it and that's all.

I don't think you get the concept of chain effects and metaphorical time bombs. It was Clinton's meddling with the banks that led to the wreckless banking practices that created the housing bubble and led to the horrible economy.

[Winehole23]

If by your definition, you mean hurting the middle class... then yes!that trend preceeds Obama by 30 years. The Panic of 2008-9 was inherited, not caused by Obama.

[Wild Cobra]

that trend preceds Obama by 30 years. The Panic of 2008-9 waa inherited, not caused by Obama.

It started in 2006 when the democrats took congress.

That is a simple fact that cannot be denied. They caused so much fear about taxing the rich.

I'm sorry you still don't recognize that after all these years.

How about a family sedan?

In 2000, a Chevy Impala for example was about 19K base. In 2008, 22K. Wages went up faster than the cars. Obama signed car regulations that shot up the price of cars. The 2016 Impala now has a base price of 27K, lacking way behind wages.

Isn't a car a large part of the middle-class purchase.

I'm sure you can find so many more examples if you look.

Stop listen to the pundits, and look at real facts.

[ElNono]

I don't think you get the concept of chain effects and metaphorical time bombs. It was Clinton's meddling with the banks that led to the wreckless banking practices that created the housing bubble and led to the horrible economy.

And it took him 8 years to figure it out? Not to mention he was handed a surplus (not disputable since dubya himself justified his tax cuts on giving that surplus back to the American public), and handed over a mess. He's also a guy that signed off on unfunded liabilities like Medicare part D. There's a reason almost every republican/conservative in here called him a RINO by the time he left office, tbh

[Winehole23]

It started in 2006 when the democrats took congress.

That is a simple fact that cannot be denied. They caused so much fear about taxing the rich.

Stop listen to the pundits, and look at real facts.like when Obama extended the Bush tax cuts?

Did that strike fear in your heart?

[Winehole23]

I know you like to blame everything on the Democrats, but really,WC, it blinds you to facts.

[ElNono]

The last good administration I remember was Bush Sr. Clinton rode a bubble, but at least at that time, the GOP congress was still willing to negotiate. Dubya was an epic disaster in more ways than one, although he benefited from being a war time president. Barry was better in general, but not great either. He's leaving office with a significant approval rating though, which I personally thought would be much lower due to the polarizing political climate.

[Winehole23]

Barry was better in general, but not great either. He's leaving office with a significant approval rating though, which I personally thought would be much lower due to the polarizing political climate.Yep. Right up there with Reagan. Obama hasn't a lot of time left to screw that up.

[Winehole23]

for WC: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168316

[Spurtacular]

And it took him 8 years to figure it out? Not to mention he was handed a surplus (not disputable since dubya himself justified his tax cuts on giving that surplus back to the American public), and handed over a mess. He's also a guy that signed off on unfunded liabilities like Medicare part D. There's a reason almost every republican/conservative in here called him a RINO by the time he left office, tbh

I'm no fan of Bush. Hated just about everything he did. The tax cuts didn't bother me, tbh. We pay so f'ing much in taxes as it is. It's the corporatists that pushed the narrative that the personal income tax was too low.

[Winehole23]

Obamabucks. Haven't you heard? Obama gives out pretty nice welfare. But it discourages working. Socialistic ideals. We know what the ending to countries with Socialism. They all become equally poor.the bs here is too dense to separate, but if you put Obama at the high water mark of the welfare state, you miscalculated.

[ElNono]

I'm no fan of Bush. Hated just about everything he did. The tax cuts didn't bother me, tbh. We pay so f'ing much in taxes as it is. It's the corporatists that pushed the narrative that the personal income tax was too low.

In hindsight it was a terrible decision. He single-handedly killed any concept of 'trickle down' economics. Even if anybody would argue that the wars and their cost was unavoidable, things like Medicare part D were not. He let Cheney run loose about expanding Executive power, without thinking the next president wouldn't be a Republican and will use the same tools.

I actually dislike that Barry used those powers too instead of reverting them back where they belong (Congress, judiciary, etc), but if you want to know where those come from, look no further than Cheney, Alberto Gonzalez, John Yoo, etc..

[Winehole23]

Obama normalized the radical expansion of executive power under GWB. That's part of his legacy, much for the worse.

What will a petty, vindictive person like Trump do with it?

[Winehole23]

But maybe that's why people are so excited: they want fellow citizens who merely disagree, to suffer at the hand of political force.

[Spurtacular]

In hindsight it was a terrible decision. He single-handedly killed any concept of 'trickle down' economics. Even if anybody would argue that the wars and their cost was unavoidable, things like Medicare part D were not. He let Cheney run loose about expanding Executive power, without thinking the next president wouldn't be a Republican and will use the same tools.

I actually dislike that Barry used those powers too instead of reverting them back where they belong (Congress, judiciary, etc), but if you want to know where those come from, look no further than Cheney, Alberto Gonzalez, John Yoo, etc..

Dude, presidents have been pulling that sh** since practically the beginning.

I don't care to debate trickle down b/c that seems like it just drops along partisan lines; but I just think that you earn your money and keep it and you're better off. Even Obama barely f'd with the tax cuts.

[Winehole23]

The theme of sadism is coming out into the open. Americans increasingly see one another as the foe.

[Spurtacular]

Obama normalized the radical expansion of executive power under GWB. That's part of his legacy, much for the worse.

What will a petty, vindictive person like Trump do with it?

Trump probably doesn't give a sh** about the Constitution. I'm hoping that he has a moralistic streak; but that's only a loose hope.

[Wild Cobra]

for WC: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168316

I was speaking of something totally different. The democrats campaigned of making the evil rich paid. When the democrats won congress in 2006, it wasn't any legislation passed that hurt the economy, but rather the fact they won, and claimed they would hurt the rich. The rich responded.

[Winehole23]

Trump probably doesn't give a sh** about the Constitution. I'm hoping that he has a moralistic streak; but that's only a loose hope.I'm hoping the US Congress will keep him in check somehow. I don't have much hope DJT sees beyond his own estate and his own personal glory.

[Winehole23]

I was speaking of something totally different. The democrats campaigned of making the evil rich paid. When the democrats won congress in 2006, it wasn't any legislation passed that hurt the economy, but rather the fact they won, and claimed they would hurt the rich. The rich responded.They didn't raise taxes or even threaten to. That was BS.

[Winehole23]

Obama extended the Bush tax cuts.

[Winehole23]

Which taxes did he raise?

[Wild Cobra]

They didn't raise taxes or even threaten to. That was BS.

I guess you weren't watching the 2006 election cycle.

The democrats promised to make the rich pay more.

It doesn't matter it never happened. I was the threat that the rich slowed on investing over.

[Spurtacular]

I'm hoping the US Congress will keep him in check somehow. I don't have much hope DJT sees beyond his own estate and his own personal glory.

:lmao

Congress are in the pockets of the lobbyists. The handfuls of moral reps (and that may be a generous number) will not be keeping anyone on the straight and narrow.

[ElNono]

Trump probably doesn't give a sh** about the Constitution. I'm hoping that he has a moralistic streak; but that's only a loose hope.

He gonna grab morals by the pussy, tbh...

I wish him well, he's gonna be the president for all Muricans now, but I don't have any expectations he's going to be what he's not. It's like hoping Jimmer is going to be an NBA star one day, that ship has sailed and that kind of expectations are just setting yourself up for disappointment, IMO.

[Rust Cohle]

I don't think you get the concept of chain effects and metaphorical time bombs. It was Clinton's meddling with the banks that led to the wreckless banking practices that created the housing bubble and led to the horrible economy.
I get the concept of conservatives trying to blame all their failures on the previous Democratic administration. When Trump sends this thing into the toilet I'm sure ":cry but but but Obama caused this" will be the excuse.

It all went to shit on Bush's watch. It recovered on Obama's watch. That's it and that's all.

[mavsfan1000]

I get the concept of conservatives trying to blame all their failures on the previous Democratic administration. When Trump sends this thing into the toilet I'm sure ":cry but but but Obama caused this" will be the excuse.

It all went to shit on Bush's watch. It recovered on Obama's watch. That's it and that's all.
What recovered? It's still shit with even more debt.

[florige]

What recovered? It's still shit with even more debt.



Were you born after 2008 or something?

[Nbadan]

They didn't raise taxes or even threaten to. That was BS.

Perfect example of what we up against IMO....lies built on other lies..

[Nbadan]

And it took him 8 years to figure it out? Not to mention he was handed a surplus (not disputable since dubya himself justified his tax cuts on giving that surplus back to the American public), and handed over a mess. He's also a guy that signed off on unfunded liabilities like Medicare part D. There's a reason almost every republican/conservative in here called him a RINO by the time he left office, tbh

....and why lefty liberals called Bubba Clinton a DINO too IMO....

[mavsfan1000]

Were you born after 2008 or something?
And things sucked with Obama as well. Namely, Obamacare.

[Nbadan]

I think we all need to reevaluate the quality of President George H.W. Bush was IMO....

[boutons_deux]

I think we all need to reevaluate the quality of President George H.W. Bush was IMO....

http://us-presidents.insidegov.com/q/21/9699/What-were-President-George-H-W-Bush-s-accomplishments

the economy was tanking, so he didn't get a 2nd term. "It's The Economy, Stupid"

[Nbadan]

http://us-presidents.insidegov.com/q/21/9699/What-were-President-George-H-W-Bush-s-accomplishments

the economy was tanking, so he didn't get a 2nd term. "It's The Economy, Stupid"

...but he Kept the NeoCons in check....I wonder how this dynamic will play out with Trump and NATO..

[CosmicCowboy]

I think it's funny that anyone thinks either party will ever do anything about the deficit...

We are damn sure hooked on that crack now.

Just gotta keep borrowing and spending till either we can't sell debt anymore or the interest demanded busts the budget wide open.

Lets say Trump runs the debt to 30 trillion in 4 years...that's very possible. Now plug in 10% interest if that's what it takes to roll over the existing debt.

That's three trillion a year in interest without paying any principal.

That's about what the US took in last year in combined corporate and personal taxes.

ALL taxes. Total revenue. We still spent almost a half trillion more than we took in paying shit for interest.

It's pretty simple math.

[Nbadan]

I think it's funny that anyone thinks either party will ever do anything about the deficit...

We are damn sure hooked on that crack now.

Just gotta keep borrowing and spending till either we can't sell debt anymore or the interest demanded busts the budget wide open.

Lets say Trump runs the debt to 30 trillion in 4 years...that's very possible. Now plug in 10% interest if that's what it takes to roll over the existing debt.

That's three trillion a year in interest without paying any principal.

That's about what the US took in last year in combined corporate and personal taxes.

ALL taxes. Total revenue.

As long as it grows the economy, debt doesn't matter, trouble is, it's almost impossible to get economic growth over 2% annually or you'll have to raise interest, and interest payments, on the debt making it a bigger part of the annual budget

[Nbadan]

Lets say Trump runs the debt to 30 trillion in 4 years...that's very possible. Now plug in 10% interest if that's what it takes to roll over the existing debt.

Not in a world where people are willing to earn 0 or even negative interest IMO...

[CosmicCowboy]

As long as it grows the economy, debt doesn't matter, trouble is, it's almost impossible to get economic growth over 2% annually or you'll have to raise interest, and interest payments, on the debt making it a bigger part of the annual budget

We aren't gonna grow our way out of a 20 Trillion Dollar hole, much less 25 or 30 which is where we are quickly headed no matter which party is in power. Just wait till the fat center of the baby boomers hit SS and Medicare and the US has to have the revenue to pay off all those IOU's they wrote to SS and Medicare years ago.

[Nbadan]

Besides, who's the biggest Buyer of American debt (hint: Not China)?

[CosmicCowboy]

Not in a world where people are willing to earn 0 or even negative interest IMO...

You really think that's gonna last forever? :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Besides, who's the biggest Buyer of American debt (hint: Not China)?

Social Security and Medicare, of course. The money we all paid in and that got pissed away years ago.

[Nbadan]

We aren't gonna grow our way out of a 20 Trillion Dollar hole, much less 25 or 30 which is where we are quickly headed no matter which party is in power.

Your right, there is no intention of ever paying off the debt...but the US can't default on its obligations or the whole monetary system will collapse...

[Nbadan]

Social Security and Medicare, of course. The money we all paid in and that got pissed away years ago.

Would you rather it sat around earning no interest?

[Nbadan]

Social Security and Medicare, of course. The money we all paid in and that got pissed away years ago.

IMO your over 50....why won't Medicare be there for you?

[boutons_deux]

Social Security and Medicare, of course. The money we all paid in and that got pissed away years ago.

that's bullshit. that the SS money got put into the general fund and spent is irrelevant.

People on SS are getting their checks. SS is not defaulting and no sending checks. Privatizing is all VRWC/BigFinance propaganda.

[Nbadan]

The 2016 report of Medicare’s trustees finds that Medicare’s Hospital Insurance (HI) trust fund will remain solvent — that is, able to pay 100 percent of the costs of the hospital insurance coverage that Medicare provides — through 2028. Even in 2028, when the HI trust fund is projected for exhaustion, incoming payroll taxes and other revenue will still be sufficient to pay 87 percent of Medicare hospital insurance costs.[1] The share of costs covered by dedicated revenues will decline slowly to 79 percent in 2040 and then rise gradually to 86 percent in 2090.

http://www.cbpp.org/research/health/medicare-is-not-bankrupt

While there maybe a future need to slow cost growth or raise the tax there is little reason to believe Medicare is going broke...

[boutons_deux]

http://www.cbpp.org/research/health/medicare-is-not-bankrupt

While there maybe a future need to slow cost growth or raise the tax there is little reason to believe Medicare is going broke...

ACA has extended Medicare solvency by 11 years.

Let's see how thw Repugs shitjob ACA replacement does in that area.

[CosmicCowboy]

IMO your over 50....why won't Medicare be there for you?

:lol I didn't say I wouldn't get Medicare. Its you guys that are fucked.

And yes boo...we can always print more money and write more checks. We can print lots more money and write a lot more checks. Endlessly, right?

[rmt]

It's amazing to me that people believe any report/stat put out by x government agency. I suppose we swallowed the CBO projections on ACA, or the 4.9% unemployment numbers (but ignore labor participation rate and more people on food stamps), or that there's virtually no inflation (only $4 per month more SS but supermarket prices doesn't agree).

SS, Medicare, Medicaid (ballooned cost AND enrollment projection courtesy of ACA expansion) and servicing the debt are HUMONGOUS.

[rmt]

It's people 55 and under (like most of us) who will be affected. CC is sitting pretty.

[CosmicCowboy]

It's people 55 and under (like most of us) who will be affected. CC is sitting pretty.

It's like this giant train wreck heading straight for us that only very few can see and acknowledge. The blind faith of the boutons crowd just amazes me.

[boutons_deux]

It's like this giant train wreck heading straight for us that only very few can see and acknowledge. The blind faith of the boutons crowd just amazes me.

The train wreck is totally fabricated and easily avoidable.

VRWC/BigFinance and their Repug whores, all of them operating in vicious bad faith, don't want to fix it, and will block all attempts to fix it.

They want $Ts in SS funds paid to Wall St to suck out $100Bs of fees per year. Would be as big a failure as 401s.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.cbpp.org/research/health/medicare-is-not-bankrupt

While there maybe a future need to slow cost growth or raise the tax there is little reason to believe Medicare is going broke...

You trying to call it a "trust fund" is a hilarious joke. There is no trust fund. It's a bag full of IOU's that future governments will have to replace with real money when it's due. That real money will either have to come from tax revenue at the time, more money borrowed adding to the debt, or from printing money. That's the only ways those bills get paid.

Which do you think will be most politically expedient at the time?

[CosmicCowboy]

The train wreck is fabricated and easily avoidable.

VRWC/BigFinance and their Repug whores, all of them operating in vicious bad faith, don't want to fix it.

They want $Ts in SS funds paid to Wall St to suck out $100Bs of fees per year. Would be a big a failure as 401s.
Did I advocate privatizing it dumbshit?

[boutons_deux]

Did I advocate privatizing it dumbshit?

I didn't say you did, parasite.

[rmt]

The train wreck is totally fabricated and easily avoidable.

VRWC/BigFinance and their Repug whores, all of them operating in vicious bad faith, don't want to fix it, and will block all attempts to fix it.

They want $Ts in SS funds paid to Wall St to suck out $100Bs of fees per year. Would be as big a failure as 401s.

It's not avoidable, boutons. People think of it as ONLY $20 trillion in debt but it's the unfunded liabilities (SS, Medicare, Medicaid, pensions) that are "owed" that'll crush us. Try suggesting that we make any change to any of those 4 and see what happens.

[CosmicCowboy]

I didn't say you did, parasite.

That train has already left the station. Social Security and Medicare will inevitably either collapse in your lifetimes or taxes will have to go up so much on everyone that even deadbeats like Boutons will have to pay taxes.

[rmt]

That GOP plan in the Medicare thread would affect me greatly - instead of half of hubby's SS, I'd get half of whatever the average person gets (I guess they think we're all trophy wives collecting half of CEOs benefits) but I'm for trying to fix it NOW - the earlier the better and less painful.

[CosmicCowboy]

That GOP plan in the Medicare thread would affect me greatly - instead of half of hubby's SS, I'd get half of whatever the average person gets (I guess they think we're all trophy wives collecting half of CEOs benefits) but I'm for trying to fix it NOW - the earlier the better and less painful.

That hardly fixes it. It just reinforces the lie that there is a "trust fund" that you contribute to fund you and your spouses retirement. You are at the mercy of whatever the government chooses to give you at the time.

Social Security and Medicare withholding are just an additional 16% hidden tax on everyones wages that the government pisses off every year.

It's actually humorous to me that liberals don't consider this to be a regressive tax.

[boutons_deux]

That hardly fixes it. It just reinforces the lie that there is a "trust fund" that you contribute to fund you and your spouses retirement. You are at the mercy of whatever the government chooses to give you at the time.

Social Security and Medicare withholding are just an additional 16% hidden tax on everyones wages that the government pisses off every year.

It's actually humorous to me that liberals don't consider this to be a regressive tax.

Give us evidence that SS is cutting checks to people based on lifetime earned revenue.

SS is regressive because it's capped at $120K.

[rmt]

That hardly fixes it. It just reinforces the lie that there is a "trust fund" that you contribute to fund you and your spouses retirement. You are at the mercy of whatever the government chooses to give you at the time.

Social Security and Medicare withholding are just an additional 16% hidden tax on everyones wages that the government pisses off every year.

It's actually humorous to me that liberals don't consider this to be a regressive tax.

I know it doesn't fix it, but it's a start. I don't know why they're so afraid of making meaningful change. For instance, they only bump up the age 2 years (to 69) in this plan. They should tie it to life expectancy and bump it up at least 7 years - everybody understands that we're living longer.

[CosmicCowboy]

Give us evidence that SS is cutting checks to people based on lifetime earned revenue.

SS is regressive because it's capped at $120K.

Trust me Boo. I cap SS at 120K every year. My SS check will be a lot bigger than yours.

if you don't believe me, check it out.

[boutons_deux]

Trust me Boo. I cap SS at 120K every year. My SS check will be a lot bigger than yours.

if you don't believe me, check it out.

Tell us again, gratuitously, how much money you make and whine about your taxes. G F Y

[CosmicCowboy]

BTW, they are already means testing SS to a certain extent. My wife was a cradle robber and has been on SS for a couple of years. I had a really good year last year and they just cut her SS in half because of my income.

She worked just as hard as anyone else in her lifetime and contributed her share...they had her "expected" SS return calculated out to the penny when she retired...they just told her they weren't gonna pay her as they had promised because of my income.

[CosmicCowboy]

Tell us again, gratuitously, how much money you make and whine about your taxes. G F Y

*shrug* Yeah, you are right. I don't live in my mama's singlewide.

got me there.

but poverty makes you more noble, right?

[SpursforSix]

BTW, they are already means testing SS to a certain extent. My wife was a cradle robber and has been on SS for a couple of years. I had a really good year last year and they just cut her SS in half because of my income.

She worked just as hard as anyone else in her lifetime and contributed her share...they had her "expected" SS return calculated out to the penny when she retired...they just told her they weren't gonna pay her as they had promised because of my income.

Lol. You're such an ass. You just can't help yourself.

[CosmicCowboy]

Lol. You're such an ass. You just can't help yourself.

well is it a retirement trust fund or not?

It either is or isn't.

[SpursforSix]

well is it a retirement trust fund or not?

It either is or isn't.

I really don't give a shit.

[CosmicCowboy]

I really don't give a shit.

And that, ladies and gentlemen is exactly why they get away with fucking you out of 16% of your income every paycheck.

[SpursforSix]

And that, ladies and gentlemen is exactly why they get away with fucking you out of 16% of your income every paycheck.

Lolz. Hey...can you repost that picture of you holding those hundreds? That was cool.

[CosmicCowboy]

Lolz. Hey...can you repost that picture of you holding those hundreds? That was cool.

:lol that was in response to Kool posting his and was meant in fun. Sorry you got butthurt over it.

[SpursforSix]

:lol that was in response to Kool posting his and was meant in fun. Sorry you got butthurt over it.

Butthurt? No...it was awesome. Do it again.

Wait...you're saying that Kool goaded you into that? Now that sounds like butthurt.

[CosmicCowboy]

Butthurt? No...it was awesome. Do it again.

naaa. I went to his level. Not happening again. I scraped that shit off my shoes long ago.

[CosmicCowboy]

And that, ladies and gentlemen is exactly why they get away with fucking you out of 16% of your income every paycheck.

[SpursforSix]

And that, ladies and gentlemen is exactly why they get away with fucking you out of 16% of your income every paycheck.

You're particularly proud of that post it seems.

[CosmicCowboy]

You're particularly proud of that post it seems.

You seem to be proud of being the poster child for it since you reposted it again.

Thanks for donating 16% of your salary to be pissed off by the government. You might have just bought a tire for the nosewheel of a predator drone!

[Trill Clinton]

BTW, they are already means testing SS to a certain extent. My wife was a cradle robber and has been on SS for a couple of years. I had a really good year last year and they just cut her SS in half because of my income.

She worked just as hard as anyone else in her lifetime and contributed her share...they had her "expected" SS return calculated out to the penny when she retired...they just told her they weren't gonna pay her as they had promised because of my income.

where does that bitch work?

[Trill Clinton]

Lolz. Hey...can you repost that picture of you holding those hundreds? That was cool.

:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

where does that bitch work?

Where does YOUR bitch work, asshole? The corner of Westheimer and Montrose?

[SpursforSix]

where does that bitch work?

Pm me. I'll send you her backpage link.

[CosmicCowboy]

Pm me. I'll send you her backpage link.

Now THATS a good friend. Only pussy Trill will be getting this holiday season is probably backpage.

[Trill Clinton]

Pm me. I'll send you her backpage link.

cool. i'll print up some flyers and pass em out at the haven for hope

[CosmicCowboy]

home sweet home

[Trill Clinton]

Now THATS a good friend. Only pussy Trill will be getting this holiday season is probably backpage.

lol you wish. my queen looks waaaay better than your golden girls old ass http://i65.tinypic.com/2ecm44g.jpg

[CosmicCowboy]

lol you wish. my queen looks waaaay better than your golden girls old ass http://i65.tinypic.com/2ecm44g.jpg

I'm sure he is your queen. That's sweet. Hope you have a great life together.

[Trill Clinton]

home sweet home

back at the trailer eh? nice. the spurs game is on fam. have gertrude go to the fridge and nuke you up a tv dinner and enjoy your evening.

[Rust Cohle]

where does that bitch work?
:lmao

[Spurtacular]

He gonna grab morals by the pussy, tbh...

I wish him well, he's gonna be the president for all Muricans now, but I don't have any expectations he's going to be what he's not. It's like hoping Jimmer is going to be an NBA star one day, that ship has sailed and that kind of expectations are just setting yourself up for disappointment, IMO.

Well, the alternative was most evil cu*nt in the history of the world; I'm not gonna shed a tear.

[Spurtacular]

I get the concept of conservatives trying to blame all their failures on the previous Democratic administration. When Trump sends this thing into the toilet I'm sure ":cry but but but Obama caused this" will be the excuse.

It all went to shit on Bush's watch. It recovered on Obama's watch. That's it and that's all.

Damn, you like your kool aid thick. Obama was a shitty president (so was Bush). Most are for what it's worth. It's not about the people at this point.

[Spurtacular]

He gonna grab morals by the pussy, tbh...

I wish him well, he's gonna be the president for all Muricans now, but I don't have any expectations he's going to be what he's not. It's like hoping Jimmer is going to be an NBA star one day, that ship has sailed and that kind of expectations are just setting yourself up for disappointment, IMO.

We'll see, dude.

[ElNono]

I had a really good year last year

Thanks Obama!

[Rust Cohle]

Thanks Obama!
:lol

[RandomGuy]

Damn, you like your kool aid thick. Obama was a shitty president (so was Bush). Most are for what it's worth. It's not about the people at this point.

Obama will, I think, be regarded as one of the better presidents in the modern era.

If you want to think he was shitty, feel free to say why, and be as specific as possible.

[florige]

Obama will, I think, be regarded as one of the better presidents in the modern era.

If you want to think he was shitty, feel free to say why, and be as specific as possible.


They are just going to continue to bring up Obamacare and stale rhetoric about open borders.

[TDMVPDPOY]

comes in with a huge deficit left over by previous chump

war on going costs,
gfc
stimulus budget to get the economy going again...but in fact didnt do anything

do anything for blacks? lol
do anything for whites? lol

[boutons_deux]

With Trump Disaster Looming, More Americans Recognize How Good Things Are Under Obama

GallupNews (https://twitter.com/GallupNews)
(https://twitter.com/GallupNews)✔@GallupNews (https://twitter.com/GallupNews)

#Obama (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Obama?src=hash) Job Approval: Approve 57% (-); Disapprove 39% (-). Get the full trend http://on.gallup.com/Obama13 (https://t.co/xYJfJ7TmbI).
12:30 PM - 21 Dec 2016 (https://twitter.com/GallupNews/status/811639993676496901)

Obama’s approval rating as he prepares to leave the White House is a whopping 35 points higher than George W. Bush’s was when he was on his way out.

The Gallup poll is no outlier, either.

Two other surveys from Rasmussen Reports (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/obama_approval_index_history) and Reuters/Ipsos (http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7512) peg Obama’s approval rating at 54 percent and 56 percent, respectively.

As Hurricane Trump picks up steam on its way to the White House, the American people are coming to grips with just how good things have been under Barack Obama.

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/12/21/trump-disaster-looming-americans-recognize-good-obama.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+politicususa%2FfJAl+%28Politi cus+USA+%29

[boutons_deux]

Obama: People View Me Through Prism of a ’Fictional’ Obama That TV, Fox, Limbaugh Created

“In 2008 I was never subjected to the kind of concentrated vilification of Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, the whole conservative-media ecosystem, and so as a consequence, even for my first two years as a senator I was polling at 70 percent.”

This, the president continued, did not last:

[T]hey weren’t seeing some image of me as trying to take away their stuff and give it to black people, and coddle criminals, and all the stereotypes of not just African American politicians but liberal politicians.

You started to see that kind of prism being established towards the end of the 2008 race, particularly once Sarah Palin was the nominee.

And obviously almost immediately after I was elected, it was deployed in full force.

And it had an impact in terms of how a large portion of white voters would see me.

And what that speaks to—and this is something I still strongly believe—is that the suspicion between races, the way it can manifest itself in politics, in part comes out of people’s daily interactions and the fact that we’re segregated by communities, and by schools, and our churches, and people’s memories passed down through generations.


Obama recently said (http://www.mediaite.com/online/obama-on-dems-inability-to-reach-voters-part-of-it-is-fox-news-in-every-bar-and-restaurant/) that the Democrats’ inability to reach certain voters is due in part to “Fox News in every bar and restaurant.”

https://thinkprogress.org/tom-cole-trump-not-blind-trust-okay-55dc206821d4#.qiawmcr0w

Repugs LOVE the politics of personal destruction, hyping, fabricating controversies, lying, slandering, lying, etc, etc.

Same happened to Hillary over the past 25 years.

[Spurtacular]

Obama will, I think, be regarded as one of the better presidents in the modern era.

If you want to think he was shitty, feel free to say why, and be as specific as possible.

Could throw a dart at any subject and see how he f'd it up or was mediocre at best. He's not a smart man. He's a puppet of elitists and infiltrators. This was always the reality. Just look at Obamacare. It was a complete fucking disaster. He did nothing to turn this country's fortunes. He perpetuated corruption at every turn. I think it's a joke that you're even saying he was "better" let alone of any value. But that's what partisans like you do.

[boutons_deux]

"see how he f'd it up or was mediocre at best"

got any specifics or just Repug/Fox slander?

[DarrinS]

The answer to the OP is NO.

No need for nine pages of butthurt.

[mavsfan1000]

Obama and Bush both suck. Trump is like if these presidents are going to suck anyways, why not me? Lol

[spurraider21]

It's people 55 and under (like most of us) who will be affected. CC is sitting pretty.this is the case with medicare, social security, and environmental issues. which is why the older crowd are all for status quo and drill baby drill

[rmt]

this is the case with medicare, social security, and environmental issues. which is why the older crowd are all for status quo and drill baby drill

Seems to me that it's the younger people here who are in denial about the health of Medicare and SS and don't want to address any change to try to prolong sustainability. They scream just like the pensioners when anybody suggests privatizing or moving away from a defined benefit (which is what the entire private sector has done).

[boutons_deux]

"in denial about the health of Medicare and SS"

I deny the LIES the Repugs/VRWC/BigFinance are spewing about Medicare and SS

[rmt]

"in denial about the health of Medicare and SS"

I deny the LIES the Repugs/VRWC/BigFinance are spewing about Medicare and SS

Think of it this way, bou, the next time GOP suggests privatizing SS, we should grab hold of that suggestion. It would force them to not spend OUR SS $ and put them in a 401k-type investment (which we would own and not depend on some future govt IOU) but what would they pay the current seniors with?

[RandomGuy]

Could throw a dart at any subject and see how he f'd it up or was mediocre at best. He's not a smart man. He's a puppet of elitists and infiltrators. This was always the reality. Just look at Obamacare. It was a complete fucking disaster. He did nothing to turn this country's fortunes. He perpetuated corruption at every turn. I think it's a joke that you're even saying he was "better" let alone of any value. But that's what partisans like you do.

Then it should be really easy to provide a few specifics.

Go ahead, then. Please.

[dbestpro]

The answer to the OP is yes.

No need for nine pages of butthurt.

[Spurtacular]

Then it should be really easy to provide a few specifics.

Go ahead, then. Please.

It is easy. How about you show us how it's done.