The Clutchest Team in the NBA

[TheDoctor]

Hit 8 out of 10 from three point land in the 4th including MVPatty's game saving trey w/ 12 seconds left on the clock. And what about my nigga LDN? 2 clutch threes in the final minutes plus a game saving steal. The Spurs only allowed 22 points from an offensive juggernaut in the 4th, outscoring them by 9 points :wow

[024]

Missing 4 crucial freethrows and committing multiple bad turnovers is not the clutchest team in the NBA :lol. But Patty and Green delivered when the rest were choking so there's a positive.

[TheDoctor]

Missing 4 crucial freethrows and committing multiple bad turnovers is not the clutchest team in the NBA :lol. But Patty and Green delivered when the rest were choking so there's a positive.

Shut up and get out of my thread :lol

[MaNu4Tres]

If there was such thing as clutch, it would happen every time. It wouldn't just happen as often as their averages in the long run. :lol

[HankChinaski]

It was an ugly 2nd half but they just dug in those last 3 and half minutes and got it done. That kind of mental fortitude to just keep grinding it is commendable. It was amazing come from behind victory.

[boutons_deux]

KL is making think he's FT choker in crunch time. Was he scarred from 2013 Game 7?

[DMC]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9-zC8ErXTu4/TgNhBOwTBoI/AAAAAAAANF4/WQzuncTPwE0/s400/Independence-Day-independence-day-film-13677467-1280-800%2Balwyas%2Bfelt%2Bit%2Bwas%2Bfitting%2Bthat%2B HOU%2Bwas%2Bthe%2Btest%2Barea%2Bfor%2Bnukes.jpg

[dabom]

KL is making think he's FT choker in crunch time. Was he scarred from 2013 Game 7?

Porker with missed free throws. :lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

KL is making think he's FT choker in crunch time. Was he scarred from 2013 Game 7?

Manu bricked two AFTER Kawhi made 2, I guess they're both scarred.:lol

[bigfan]

Frankly, I'd rather have them just beat the shit out of other teams than be clutch. :)

[Kawhitstorm]

If there was such thing as clutch, it would happen every time. It wouldn't just happen as often as their averages in the long run. :lol

Again, clutch isn't suddenly catching fire like NBA Jam but being mentally tough no matter the situation:


The Spurs came back to win Tuesday after trailing by 13 points with under 4:30 to go in the game. Entering Tuesday, teams that were trailing by 13+ points with under 4:30 to go in the 4th quarter were 1-1,388 (0.001) over the last three seasons.

[Kawhitstorm]

Frankly, I'd rather have them just beat the shit out of other teams than be clutch. :)

We know how that worked out last season.:wakeup

[Amuseddaysleeper]

We know how that worked out last season.:wakeup

:lol well played

[pgardn]

We got a long way to go. But tonight we did not give up.
Our guys fully appreciate how stupid James Harden can be.

[Russ]

Rockets 6-38 from three.

That was the game.

[Arcadian]

This team is clutch as fuck. Love it.

[Spur|n|Austin]

We know how that worked out last season.:wakeup

beat me to it!

[skin27]

We know how that worked out last season.:wakeup 2010-2011 team also had a lot of wins in clutch in the regular season too.. but what happen in the playoffs?lol

[Solid D]

2010-2011 team also had a lot of wins in clutch in the regular season too.. but what happen in the playoffs?lol

They got out-clutched by the eventual champs.

[Chews]

You all know we won, right? Lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

2010-2011 team also had a lot of wins in clutch in the regular season too.. but what happen in the playoffs?lol

I've said that this team remind me of the '10-'11 squad except the role players are better than Dick/Bonner/Blair/Neal/TOSB McDyess.:lol

[scanry]

They got out-clutched by the eventual champs.

8 happened.

[rasuo214]

Plus the clutch steals, Kawhi got one (didn't score) but then Danny got the steal that eventually led to the GW.

[skin27]

I've said that this team remind me of the '10-'11 squad except the role players are better than Dick/Bonner/Blair/Neal/TOSB McDyess.:lol
It means it doesn't guarantee a playoff win even if you have a lot of clutch wins in regular season..the 2013-2014 team won a lot of games in the regular season by blowout..and guess what they win the championship..

[cutewizard]

If this Spurs team reaches its absolute potential ceiling,.......

WATCH OUT NBA!

[boutons_deux]

4th

3:33 Kawhi Leonard misses free throw 1 of 2 88 - 96
3:33 Kawhi Leonard misses free throw 2 of 2 88 - 96

[Kawhitstorm]

It means it doesn't guarantee a playoff win even if you have a lot of clutch wins in regular season..the 2013-2014 team won a lot of games in the regular season by blowout..and guess what they win the championship..

The key game in that championship run was Gm 6 @ OKC when they had to dig deep to pull out a win in OT.

[dabom]

The key game in that championship run was Gm 6 @ OKC when they had to dig deep to pull out a win in OT.

I thought it was porker with an "injury". :lol

[TheDoctor]

I thought it was porker with an "injury". :lol

Exactly what he said, hence "digging deep".

[FkLA]

If there was such thing as clutch, it would happen every time. It wouldn't just happen as often as their averages in the long run. :lol

I've heard you say this a bunch of times. That's not true. There's Sport Psychology classes that study this.

[MaNu4Tres]

I've heard you say this a bunch of times. That's not true. There's Sport Psychology classes that study this.

And there's no data that supports clutch once the sample size is big enough for the data to be relevant. You can not quantify clutch.

Here's a good article about it by Tom Ziller.

http://www.sbnation.com/2014/1/8/5287484/clutch-nba-frank-deford-random-chaos

And there's plenty of more articles from people smarter than you and I on why or how there's no such thing as clutch. Every player that is in a tight, highly competitive NBA game in the 4th quarter, has been training and practicing for decades. They have confidence in the one thing they are best at ( playing basketball). There's no such thing as a player being " clutch" or having a " clutch gene". Clutch isn't why they come through late. They come through late because they have prepared for decades and are highly skilled at what they do. There is such thing as players being skilled and having confidence --especially on the NBA level competing in 4th quarters in tight games.

[urunobili]

Some random thoughts I'm parking on this thread...
As is they're 2nd round fodder TBH. I think this game was a mirage. Yet, other teams like the Rockettes celebrate buckets as championships etc... with that being said, class doesn't guarantee ships... it'll be up to Kawhi... if he morphs into a Lebron like level there may be a chance... Manu would at least have to match his 2014 playoffs run level so would Parker...

[Chinook]

As already said, it really depends on what it means to be "clutch". If you mean that guys perform better in crunch time, then that implies that they are purposefully playing worse for most of the game/season. That can be true, but I don't consider it a virtuous quality to have. If being clutch is just being unflappable under pressure, then it seems really easy to see how that can be true.

Patty wasn't clutch because he made a three he'd normally miss. He was clutch because he didn't miss a three he'd normally make.

[MaNu4Tres]

Patty wasn't clutch because he made a three he'd normally miss. He was clutch because he didn't miss a three he'd normally make.

A player can hit a big shot, but that's part of skill, variance, and opportunity. It's not because he is clutch. A player is going to hit and miss shots around their averages ( or around their skill level) in the long run, no matter what part of the game it is.

[apalisoc_9]

Yeah, There is no such thing as clutch genes or Cluth whatever. I understand that a good percentage of casual fans believe in that BS.

But I've always though "clutch" implied playing at your average level in a more tense time of the game. It isn't shot shots either, but just being able to utilize every skill you have in the very last moment of the game at an average.

That's how I personally define clutch. And some do the same thing.

In that sense, "clutch" is a thing.

[MaNu4Tres]

But I've always though "clutch" implied playing at your average level in a more tense time of the game. It isn't shot shots either, but just being able to utilize every skill you have in the very last moment of the game at an average.

That's how I personally define clutch. And some do the same thing.

In that sense, "clutch" is a thing.

There's no data that supports that though. There's only tense part of games for players who are cold or on the bench. Players that are in the middle of battle have the blood flowing and are prepared more than anyone for competition late in games. Players that play in the 4th quarter of big games on the NBA level are the most skilled, and have the most confidence already. They've spent years and decades practicing and playing this game at the highest levels. It has more to do with confidence, skill level, opportunity and variance. It's not because of a player or team being clutch.

[Chinook]

There's no data that supports that though. Players that play in the 4th quarter of big games on the NBA level are the most skilled, and have the most confidence already. They've spent years and decades practicing and playing this game at the highest levels. It has more to do with confidence, skill level, opportunity and variance. It's not because of a player or team being clutch. imo

But if clutch is just anti-anticlutch, then it's rather easy to quantify. Does the play shoot worse in big moments? No? Then they're clutch. Does a player shoot worse? Yes? Then they aren't.

There are guys like Bonner who have plenty of experience sucking it up in big games. It's easy anecdotally to see how people can cave under pressure. We aren't NBA players, but everyone has experienced that feeling in their lives for some reason or another. Some rise above, and some succumb. It's not just chance.

[GSH]

A player can hit a big shot, but that's part of skill, variance, and opportunity. It's not because he is clutch. A player is going to hit and miss shots around their averages ( or around their skill level) in the long run, no matter what part of the game it is.


Except for the ones that don't. I think what most people don't get is that the players who are consistently good in the clutch are the ones who are good consistently good all the time. Some decent-to-good players go to shit in the clutch. But you don't have scrubs that suddenly become assassins in the clutch. Plus the fact that very few of those lower-to-mid tier players get the opportunity to take the last shot in big games. So it's almost always the better players who make the clutch shots, and they do pretty much what they always do. They don't get max contracts to be good just in the last minutes of games.

Is Steph Curry "clutch"? Harden? Westbrook? Sort of. Those fuckers are "clutch" in the first half, and third quarters too. And if they've had a bad game, they sometimes step up in the last minute. But that means they become normal - not better than normal. You should pay more attention to the guys who are anti-clutch, and fall apart under pressure. It's exactly what Chinook said:


Patty wasn't clutch because he made a three he'd normally miss. He was clutch because he didn't miss a three he'd normally make.

[apalisoc_9]

There's no data that supports that though. There's only tense part of games for players who are cold or on the bench. Players that are in the middle of battle have the blood flowing and are prepared more than anyone for competition late in games. Players that play in the 4th quarter of big games on the NBA level are the most skilled, and have the most confidence already. They've spent years and decades practicing and playing this game at the highest levels. It has more to do with confidence, skill level, opportunity and variance. It's not because of a player or team being clutch.


But that's the thing. A 2 point in end game situation is much more maginified as a possession than say the middle lf the second quarter. Players know this.

You can see this with role player, specifically. For example, Danny dribbles and drives mid game but he will only ever do twp things in end game sitautions.

Is it quanitifable, yes..There just isnt anyone willing to do those stats. But its pretty evident that Role players in general, have a difference cobfidence level late in the 4th.

[MaNu4Tres]

But if clutch is just anti-anticlutch, then it's rather easy to quantify. Does the play shoot worse in big moments? No? Then they're clutch. Does a player shoot worse? Yes? Then they aren't.

There are guys like Bonner who have plenty of experience sucking it up in big games. It's easy anecdotally to see how people can cave under pressure. We aren't NBA players, but everyone has experienced that feeling in their lives for some reason or another. Some rise above, and some succumb. It's not just chance.

1. Bonner sucked it up (overall) in big games vs. GREAT competition in playoffs because he simply wasn't good enough. He was a 10th-12th man and sometimes overplayed in scenarios where the game was far over his head. It wasn't because he wasn't clutch, it was because the guy just wasn't good enough.

2. Bonner shot 36% from 3 in only 138 career playoff opportunities (which is fair considering the increased level of defense that is faced in the playoffs). Plus, that sample size isn't large enough to make end all conclusions. On top to that, with Bonner being relatively easy to defend, the better teams ( in the playoffs) made a conscious effort to not leave wide open like the terrible teams that left him open in the regular season. For the sample size comparison, Bonner shot over 1900+ threes in his career in the regular season compared to only 138 in the playoffs. Not making any excuses for Bonner, I know he isn't a great player and I know he shouldn't have played much in any playoff run ( because he simply wasn't good enough). But to call him unclutch just isn't the right word for it -- he simply wasn't good enough and if you want to point to his 36% shooting from 3 against advanced defenses, then I have to disagree bc the sample size is still too small to make an end all conclusion.

[cjw]

4th

3:33 Kawhi Leonard misses free throw 1 of 2 88 - 96
3:33 Kawhi Leonard misses free throw 2 of 2 88 - 96


And Manu missed a pair too that left the door wide open at the end. Meanwhile, Harden had nine points on three fouls on three pointers.

[skin27]

The key game in that championship run was Gm 6 @ OKC when they had to dig deep to pull out a win in OT.
Were talking about hitting clutch shots in the regular season not playoffs..my point is winning close games/in the clutch in the in the regular season doesn't guarantee a championship..

[MaNu4Tres]

Except for the ones that don't. I think what most people don't get is that the players who are consistently good in the clutch are the ones who are good consistently good all the time. Some decent-to-good players go to shit in the clutch. But you don't have scrubs that suddenly become assassins in the clutch. Plus the fact that very few of those lower-to-mid tier players get the opportunity to take the last shot in big games. So it's almost always the better players who make the clutch shots, and they do pretty much what they always do. They don't get max contracts to be good just in the last minutes of games.

Is Steph Curry "clutch"? Harden? Westbrook? Sort of. Those fuckers are "clutch" in the first half, and third quarters too. And if they've had a bad game, they sometimes step up in the last minute. But that means they become normal - not better than normal. You should pay more attention to the guys who are anti-clutch, and fall apart under pressure. It's exactly what Chinook said:

When they do come though its because of how good they are. The five players in at the end of big games are the teams best 5 players most often than not. They are not Bonners, or 10th or 11th guys on the team. Even the greatest players miss shots in the most crucial moments, Curry last year vs. Cavaliers, Manu has on more than one occasion, Jordan has, Kobe has, Duncan has -- its due to variance. No matter how confident a player is at taking a shot, it's still skilled based that will be converted around their averages in the long run.

So if Duncan misses a game winner like he's done on several occasions, that means he's labeled as "anti-clutch" because he " fell apart under pressure"? No, that couldn't be more wrong, because the sample size is too small to make that declaration after just a handful of sample moments.

[GSH]

When they do come though its because of how good they are. The five players in at the end of big games are the teams best 5 players most often than not. They are not Bonners, or 10th or 11th guys on the team. Even the greatest players miss shots in the most crucial moments, Curry last year vs. Cavaliers, Manu has on more than one occasion, Jordan has, Kobe has, Duncan has -- its due to variance. No matter how confident a player is at taking a shot, it's still skilled based that will be converted around their averages in the long run.


We're saying the same thing.

[FkLA]

Yeah, There is no such thing as clutch genes or Cluth whatever. I understand that a good percentage of casual fans believe in that BS.

But I've always though "clutch" implied playing at your average level in a more tense time of the game. It isn't shot shots either, but just being able to utilize every skill you have in the very last moment of the game at an average.

That's how I personally define clutch. And some do the same thing.

In that sense, "clutch" is a thing.

Pretty much this. Heart rate increase, sweaty hands, mental thoughts can all occur when the importance of a possession is magnified even if you're a professional athlete. Clutchness is basically the ability to combat that. Some teams are even hiring sport psychologists, tbh.

[MaNu4Tres]

Pretty much this. Heart rate increase, sweaty hands, mental thoughts can all occur when the importance of a possession is magnified even if you're a professional athlete. Clutchness is basically the ability to combat that. Some teams are even hiring sport psychologists, tbh.

Lol It's called confidence. The teams hiring sports psychologists are hiring them for overall mental balance to deal with all the pressure that comes with being a professional athlete. They aren't hiring them to combat sweaty palms, or increased heart rates or to combat anti clutch lol.

The more prepared you are, the more confident you are and the better you're going to produce. The NBA players in big games and in big moments are more prepared than any players in the world.

[hater]

No team having Kawhi as their leader can be called clutch imo

[dabom]

No team having Kawhi as their leader can be called clutch imo

Thanks for helping out kawhi with that MVP trophy. :lol

[Joseph Kony]

to act like the pressure doesn't increase as the game gets tighter and closer to the finish while some players wilt under that pressure while some embrace it and play better, is just asinine imo.

[Arcadian]

The studies have shown that streak shooting is an illusion. A player is no more likely to make after a make than he is to make after a miss.

However, in this context "clutch" means something different: the ability to come back from a deficit, and to win close games. That can be quantified.

[FkLA]

Lol It's called confidence. The teams hiring sports psychologists are hiring them for overall mental balance to deal with all the pressure that comes with being a professional athlete. They aren't hiring them to combat sweaty palms, or increased heart rates or to combat anti clutch lol.

The more prepared you are, the more confident you are and the better you're going to produce. The NBA players in big games and in big moments are more prepared than any players in the world.

Pros are the best prepared but they're also playing at the highest level for the biggest stakes. It's completely ridiculous to think they're incapable of feeling pressure. There's literally subjects about this being thaught at universities.

[MaNu4Tres]

Pros are the best prepared but they're also playing at the highest level for the biggest stakes. It's completely ridiculous to think they're incapable of feeling pressure. There's literally subjects about this being thaught at universities.

S

Then why do statistics prove that in the long run ( over a large sample), players shoot around their career averages in pressure situations?

If clutch existed, success would be repeatable in these high pressure environments -- but this does not happen. Success in these scenarios is part of confidence, variance and skill. Skill and variance have a bigger part of the outcome than a player having a " clutch gene" or being clutch".

[Kawhitstorm]

Were talking about hitting clutch shots in the regular season not playoffs..my point is winning close games/in the clutch in the in the regular season doesn't guarantee a championship..

Who the hell said anything that happens in the regular season "guarantees" anything?:rolleyes

All I said was that blowing out teams in the regular season amounted to nothing against OKC, so might as well try squeaking out wins since this squad isn't going to be blowing out teams after the 1st rd. The current squad probably wouldn't have botched the Gm 2 ending where Patty shot an airball.:lol

[skin27]

^^I'm not saying you said that but your downdrading last year's team performance in the regular season...that's why i example the 2010-2011 team that win a lot of close games in the regular season Ang get bounce in the first round..

[FkLA]

S

Then why do statistics prove that in the long run ( over a large sample), players shoot around their career averages in pressure situations?

If clutch existed, success would be repeatable in these high pressure environments -- but this does not happen. Success in these scenarios is part of confidence, variance and skill. Skill and variance have a bigger part of the outcome than a player having a " clutch gene" or being clutch".

Where are these statistics you speak of? I highly doubt all players shoot their career averages in pressure situations.

And sure there is no clutch gene that they can turn on and thus guarantee repeated success in high pressure situations. That's common sense. But I also think it's common sense that all humans are capable of feeling pressure. Pro athletes aren't different in that respect. What you're implying is akin to saying a police officer will perform no different in a gun fight than he would at a gun range he frequents.

Clutchness is the ability to remain composed in those situations and it varies depending on the person.

[kaji157]

To say the truth, the "clutch" stat, doesn love kawhi a lot, mainly because he takes bad shots.
Manu and Tony always used to be able to get inside at will and have a high percentage shot. Kawhi still fails to realise which shot to go to, and it reflects on his clutch stats.


During the 2013-2014 title run, the team clutchest players where Tony, Manu, Beli, and Tim. In that order. And then the finals mvp.

[Kawhitstorm]

The more prepared you are, the more confident you are and the better you're going to produce. The NBA players in big games and in big moments are more prepared than any players in the world.

Nick Anderson from the '95 Finals says "hello", the guy completely lost his composure under a high pressure situation despite not being a guy who lacked confidence as he was talking smack to none other than Jordan during the same postseason run. (He did lose his confidence after that incident as he refused to drive so he doesn't have to shoot FTs::lol)

Russell Westbrook certainly doesn't lack confidence but he loses his composure & starts deviating from his normal playing mode when it gets to crunch time. It's not even like the defense is forcing him to play even faster (turnovers) or take quicker shots (terrible shots) but the guy just self-implodes.:lol