Kawhi is doing something only Jordan has done at his age group

[Kawhitstorm]

http://bkref.com/tiny/eJ4kw


Next time you want to pin everything on Kawhi for the team's shortcomings, let me know when you find guys 25 or under who aren't regarded as the best of their respective generations (Jordan/LeBron aka FREAK athletes) who can do better than Kawhi has so far this season as a two-way wing-player.:rolleyes: http://bkref.com/tiny/l69Yf

The only other player that can do what Kawhi does is Durant who is a 7ft tall alien & maybe Giannis (another 7ft tall alien) in the future if he learns how to shoot. (Kawhi was a better scorer than PEAK Pippen aka rich man's Iggy last season)

Kawhi is essentially no more athletic than Carmelo & he is now just as good a scorer as the guy that was once regarded as the best pure scorer in the league: http://bkref.com/tiny/bXQZm

If Kawhi had Paul George's athleticism & height, he would be the best 2-way player since PEAK LeBron.

[dabom]

Kawhi is a great player. He is basically asked to cover every single fucking problem with the Spurs. And fans bitch about it all the time. :lmao

[313]

Stop comparing Kawhi to Jordan :lol

Theyre not even in the same atmosphere :lol

[Kawhitstorm]

Stop comparing Kawhi to Jordan :lol

Theyre not even in the same atmosphere :lol

2013: Stop comparing Kawhi to Paul George, they aren't even in he same atmosphere.:wakeup

[dabom]

2013: Stop comparing Kawhi to Paul George, they aren't even in he same atmosphere.:wakeup

:lol

[daslicer]

:lol OP is up there with Kobetards when it comes to disillusionment.

[r0drig0lac]

All the above posts are correct (this is really weird)

[GSH]

Lowest 2P% on the list, by a pretty good margin. He makes an amazing number of off-balance, fade-away jumpers, but he's forced to take way too many of them. Whether that's his fault, or Pop's, or the rest of his teammates', it's a limiting factor for his game.

You lose a lot of momentum when you start talking about "if" he was taller and stronger. He is who he is.

[apalisoc_9]

Respect.

Easily the least appreciated superstar among his own fambase. When He does win a ring here, I hope he leaves.

These fans dont deserve Kawhi.

[TheGreatYacht]

Stop comparing Kawhi to Jordan :lol

Theyre not even in the same atmosphere :lol
Imagine Jordan getting clamped up by the likes of Matt Barnes, Roberson, and Mbah a Mohte :lol

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Dejounte Murray has more offensive potential. When he takes over the PG position he can move Kawhi to more comfortable offensive role.

[313]

Imagine Jordan getting clamped up by the likes of Matt Barnes, Roberson, and Mbah a Mohte :lol:lmao imagine

[daslicer]

Respect.

Easily the least appreciated superstar among his own fambase. When He does win a ring here, I hope he leaves.

These fans dont deserve Kawhi.

:lol Hopefully you leave with him to.

[Kawhitstorm]

Imagine Jordan getting clamped up by the likes of Matt Barnes, Roberson, and Mbah a Mohte :lol

21 yr old Kawhi who was a 70% shooter splitting FTs in Gm 6 cost the Spurs the series::cry

3omh3nvCcrk

Kawhi shot 47% against the Clippers & OKC::cry

Cy6uigdabDs

I can only imagine how Jordan would fare if he was being guarded by a long armed defender like Kawhi instead of a scrub like John Starks. Too bad I can't find a good comparison::cry


It’s time for the Kawhi Leonard (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/132534/kawhi-leonard)-Bruce Bowen (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21770/bruce-bowen) comparisons to stop. In his NBA career, Bowen took almost 44% of his field goals from three and had a mere 5.5 field goals attempted per game. Those numbers don’t scream offensive talent by any means, compared to Kawhi who has a career 30% of his field goals from three and 10 field goals attempted per game. Popovich would never have talked about Bowen being the face of the Spurs’ franchise (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/31/popovich-says-kawhi-leonard-could-be-face-of-spurs/). On the defensive end, Bowen knew how to get in your head (or on it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edb6bz_C9ms)). Kawhi just makes the opposing ball handler sad (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkUxrM2m31s). So who matches Kawhi’s game better? The answer: Reggie Lewis.

fi5BORi8Rck

[Kawhitstorm]

Lowest 2P% on the list, by a pretty good margin. He makes an amazing number of off-balance, fade-away jumpers, but he's forced to take way too many of them. Whether that's his fault, or Pop's, or the rest of his teammates', it's a limiting factor for his game.

Other than Durant, none of the guys on the list were/are as prolific a 3 point shooter as Kawhi.:wakeup


You lose a lot of momentum when you start talking about "if" he was taller and stronger. He is who he is.

My point is that he's maxing out his talent unlike guys like Carmelo who play one side of the court. It's impossible to dominate like PEAK Jordan without freaky athleticism b/c he was also the most fundamentally sound player. Folks can argue Bird was as good as Lebron b/c Bird's fundamentals trump LeBron's which would make up for the lack of athleticism.

[Kawhitstorm]

Dejounte Murray has more offensive potential. When he takes over the PG position he can move Kawhi to more comfortable offensive role.

You mean like how Pippen ran the offense while Jordan moved to a "more comfortable offensive role".:toast

[99 Problems]

:claw

[Sean Cagney]

You mean like how Pippen ran the offense while Jordan moved to a "more comfortable offensive role".:toast

Hell, it worked out so hopefully ours does as well with Murray and Kawhi in the future.

[ducks]

Respect.

Easily the least appreciated superstar among his own fambase. When He does win a ring here, I hope he leaves.

These fans dont deserve Kawhi.spur fans never even appreciated a prime tp
Who won a finals MVP and was close to regular season mvp

[apalisoc_9]

spur fans never even appreciated a prime tp
Who won a finals MVP and was close to regular season mvp

TP was never a superstar.

[ducks]

fans appreciated aj more then tp and tp was 10 times the player as aj

[apalisoc_9]

fans appreciated aj more then tp and tp was 10 times the player as aj

TP is underappreciated for sure, but again my statement was about the least underapprecaited superstar of all time. TP was never a superstar.

[cutewizard]

There is still a lot of room for Kawhi to improve:

court vision, decision making

when to pass, how to involve his teammates more

how to make his teammates better, like Duncan and Manu

[cutewizard]

TP was never a superstar.

-----------------------------

agree!

our true superstars were Robinson, then Duncan, then Manu

but that's just my opinion (correct me if im wrong)

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16VSqbj9meA

[GSH]

My point is that he's maxing out his talent unlike guys like Carmelo who play one side of the court.


Hmmm... I hope he isn't maxing out his talent. He's improved year-on-year since he came here. I think he's not done. I also think he could be used better, but that's a whole other discussion. I know he would benefit from having at least one big man who actually plays in the paint.

My point is, it's pretty spectacular when he makes those crazy shots. But he would be so much better if he didn't have to make them so often. And I think that Pop featuring (forcing) him on offense this way keeps him from dominating on D the way he could be. That's also another whole discussion.

But I think if you're going to talk about a guy in terms of "greatest of his generation" it ought to be obvious that he is. I don't think Kawhi is there yet. That's no slight, I just don't think you can see him head and shoulders above his generation right now.

[south side spur]

You guys must not live in San Antonio. Most under appreciated? What a joke. All you see across this city are people wearing his jersey and shirts. There's a difference between appreciation and homoeroticism. You do realize that the majority of Spurs fans don't even get on this message board?
True Spurs fans appreciate the franchise not just one player.
Y'all adore Kawhi and that's fine but just understand that holding him accountable for any supposed weakness DOES NOT equate under appreciation or "blaming him for the teams issues."

[GSH]

There's a difference between appreciation and homoeroticism.[QUOTE]


Oh, man. Truth nuke there. From someone with 180 posts even. :lol :toast


[QUOTE=south side spur;8838818]You do realize that the majority of Spurs fans don't even get on this message board?


Looking at the stands most nights, they don't go to the games either.

[Kawhitstorm]

fans appreciated aj more then tp and tp was 10 times the player as aj

....for the same reason Portland fans appreciated Wes Matthews more than Softridge.:wakeup

[Clipper Nation]

Stop comparing Kawhi to Jordan :lol

Theyre not even in the same atmosphere :lol
Agreed. Kawhi is an alpha. DK got carried by Stern, Phil, MVPippen, and the most stacked rosters of his era.

[Kawhitstorm]

TP is underappreciated for sure, but again my statement was about the least underapprecaited superstar of all time. TP was never a superstar.

Porker was a one-way player & he wasn't a top 5 offensive player at any point of his career to be referred to as a "superstar". Isaiah Thomas this season is playing as well as Porker did at his PEAK & nobody is calling him a "superstar".:lol: http://bkref.com/tiny/o0hfb

[skulls138]

There is still a lot of room for Kawhi to improve:

court vision, decision making

when to pass, how to involve his teammates more

how to make his teammates better, like Duncan and ManuI agree. It would be a great way to open his game up. He can pass but doesnt too much

[Kidd K]

2013: Stop comparing Kawhi to Paul George, they aren't even in he same atmosphere.:wakeup

But one of those two is an average star while the other is the best wing of all time. Surely you can draw the difference there. Reaching Paul George level was never unreasonable for Kawhi.

[Mnky]

Kawhi is not even close to Jordan yet. The bad takes are so real on this site. :lol

Jordan would have an entire team defending him and still score. Kawhi gets frustrated by single assignments on a regular basis still. Not to say he isn't improving, he is, and I've clamored he would have a great career because of his ability to improve and learn, but he is not a major offensive weapon. When he's hot, he can be unstoppable.. plenty of non stars can say that though. Like Pop says, bringing that every night is what makes you great. Kid is young and doing amazing for his lack of offensive experience, but no. .nothing like Jordan yet.

Also, he is the reason they win when the spurs win, it's only fair you believe he's the reason the spurs lose when they lose. The double standard goes both ways. If you're giving him credit for the spurs success, he has to share equal credit for their failures.

And another note. He's well regarded as a top 5-10 player without being flashy or building himself up.he gets plenty of appreciation and credit. You're just an insecure spur fan if you think he doesn't get credit.

[Arcadian]

Stop comparing Kawhi to Jordan :lol

Theyre not even in the same atmosphere :lol

He just posted statistics showing that they are in the same atmosphere.

[SuperCam]

Imagine Jordan getting clamped up by the likes of Matt Barnes, Roberson, and Mbah a Mohte :lol


:wow:wow


fkin got em



Kiwi w/o Tim = 3rd team all nba ceiling

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There is still a lot of room for Kawhi to improve:

court vision, decision making

when to pass, how to involve his teammates more

how to make his teammates better, like Duncan and Manu

Yet he already is improving in season. He is starting to find the open man better than he was early in the year. Fewer bad shots and turnovers as he works through dealing with double teams.

He is fun as hell to watch.

[cjw]

Kiwi w/o Tim = 3rd team all nba ceiling

^^ = subjective, and also plain wrong. He'll be at least 2nd team this year.

Fact based: Jordan without Pippen is 1-9 in the playoffs

[south side spur]

^^ =Fact based: Jordan without Pippen is 1-9 in the playoffs

So you're going to "pin the blame on Jordan for the shortcomings" of those Bulls' rosters? I guess that only works when it pertains to Kawhi's accountability. Nevermind the fact that 6 of those losses were to a team considered to be one of the greatest in league history. Yeah that actually makes perfect sense. Jordan should be held totally accountable for playoff losses to the 80's Celtics but we should never hold Kawhi accountable for the playoff losses to the legendary Thunder or Clippers teams. Got it.

[Kawhitstorm]

Kiwi w/o Tim = 3rd team all nba ceiling

Jordan w/o rich-man's Iggy: NEVER got out of the 2nd rd like Choke-P3:lol

[313]

So you're going to "pin the blame on Jordan for the shortcomings" of those Bulls' rosters? I guess that only works when it pertains to Kawhi's accountability. Nevermind the fact that 6 of those losses were to a team considered to be one of the greatest in league history. Yeah that actually makes perfect sense. Jordan should be held totally accountable for playoff losses to the 80's Celtics but we should never hold Kawhi accountable for the playoff losses to the legendary Thunder or Clippers teams. Got it.
:wow

:lmao Kawhi got shit on by Matt Barnes and Andre Robertson in humiliating fashion while the Goat Jordan dropped 63 on one of the greatest teams of all time

[bic50]

:claw

[Kawhitstorm]

So you're going to "pin the blame on Jordan for the shortcomings" of those Bulls' rosters? I guess that only works when it pertains to Kawhi's accountability. Nevermind the fact that 6 of those losses were to a team considered to be one of the greatest in league history. Yeah that actually makes perfect sense. Jordan should be held totally accountable for playoff losses to the 80's Celtics but we should never hold Kawhi accountable for the playoff losses to the legendary Thunder or Clippers teams. Got it.

Dominique Wilkins took the 80s Celtics to 7 & beat Isiah's Pistons with fuckin' Doc Rivers.:lol

He also took a big shit on Jordan:

S-KOBNQoyjg

Jordan w/o Pippen was the equivalent of '13-'14 Dominos.:wakeup

[YGWHI]

he is not a major offensive weapon.
A guy who led the league in PPP on pick and rolls, almost had a 50-40-90 season, is that versatile that he can drive to the hoop, take the mid-j, shoot the three, post-up...And scoring 24.5 ppg in less shots than any other superstar?

That sounds like a true 'major offensive weapon'



Also, he is the reason they win when the spurs win, it's only fair you believe he's the reason the spurs lose when they lose. The double standard goes both ways. If you're giving him credit for the spurs success, he has to share equal credit for their failures.
He isn't responsible for every Spurs' loss.

Kawhi was the best player on the court in the game in Chicago but it's easier for you to say the loss was on him if you forget the horrible game that LMA, Parker and Manu had.

I mean, we should blame him for the loss when he plays bad not just because he's the best player on the team.

[YGWHI]

Reaching Paul George level was never unreasonable for Kawhi.
Kawhi already surpassed PG level a season ago...That's why that comparison sounds that stupid right now in 2016.

[YGWHI]

Dejounte Murray has more offensive potential. When he takes over the PG position he can move Kawhi to more comfortable offensive role.

Like when you said that Kyle was 'a way better offensive player than Kawhi'...? Like when you said that Kawhi should be the 4th option last season?

Hopefully this time you won't ruin Murray's career like you did with Anderson's.

[jehawk81]

So you're going to "pin the blame on Jordan for the shortcomings" of those Bulls' rosters? I guess that only works when it pertains to Kawhi's accountability. Nevermind the fact that 6 of those losses were to a team considered to be one of the greatest in league history. Yeah that actually makes perfect sense. Jordan should be held totally accountable for playoff losses to the 80's Celtics but we should never hold Kawhi accountable for the playoff losses to the legendary Thunder or Clippers teams. Got it.

:wow

DAYUM

[cjw]

So you're going to "pin the blame on Jordan for the shortcomings" of those Bulls' rosters? I guess that only works when it pertains to Kawhi's accountability. Nevermind the fact that 6 of those losses were to a team considered to be one of the greatest in league history. Yeah that actually makes perfect sense. Jordan should be held totally accountable for playoff losses to the 80's Celtics but we should never hold Kawhi accountable for the playoff losses to the legendary Thunder or Clippers teams. Got it.


Never said I don't hold Kawhi accountable for his shortcomings against the Clippers and Thunder. All I did was call someone out for saying he won't make an All NBA Team without Duncan. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I'm also not one of these homers saying that Kawhi is anywhere close to Jordan. But he's on the path to being a HOFer assuming he doesn't pull a Gerald Wallace and fall off (but given he doesn't rely on athleticism and can shoot, I wouldn't expect it).

All I was saying on Jordan is that we'll never know if he'd have won six titles without a Pippen. Sure helped that the talent in the league was trending towards the western conference by then - a lot like the only player with a chance of catching him (Lebron).

[south side spur]

Never said I don't hold Kawhi accountable for his shortcomings against the Clippers and Thunder. All I did was call someone out for saying he won't make an All NBA Team without Duncan. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Point taken but when anyone tries to tear down Jordan to strengthen the argument for (player name) it's always laughable I hope you can at least recognize that.

I mean some of these Kawhidiots point out EVERY SINGLE possible criticism for other players, using metrics and videos as if Kawhi himself is immune to these same devices.

The fact of the matter is I agree with their general position. That we as Spurs fans should be grateful for having a franchise player like Kawhi. I think most Spurs fans realize this fact.

What they're not realizing is Kawhi is now the face of a 5 time championship franchise. The expectations are going to be the highest of any player in the league. We're not going to deflect criticism to other players or shield him.

What the fuck is that? The greatest don't need protection and that's his path right? Isn't that what this thread is about? Kawhi being in the same discussion as the greatest wings?

This current Spurs team is a title contender no matter what some in this forum would have us believe. So where is HE taking this team. It's on HIM no one else. No one can reasonably argue about Kawhi's greatness and how he is on a hall of fame trajectory and then when the team falls short of a championship deflect blame to every other player BUT him.

[Ice009]

^^ = subjective, and also plain wrong. He'll be at least 2nd team this year.

Fact based: Jordan without Pippen is 1-9 in the playoffs

Is that 1 series win to 9 series losses without Pippen?

Who is the wins and losses against?

[south side spur]

Is that 1 series win to 9 series losses without Pippen?

Single games not series

[Mnky]

A guy who led the league in PPP on pick and rolls, almost had a 50-40-90 season, is that versatile that he can drive to the hoop, take the mid-j, shoot the three, post-up...And scoring 24.5 ppg in less shots than any other superstar?

That sounds like a true 'major offensive weapon'



He isn't responsible for every Spurs' loss.

Kawhi was the best player on the court in the game in Chicago but it's easier for you to say the loss was on him if you forget the horrible game that LMA, Parker and Manu had.

I mean, we should blame him for the loss when he plays bad not just because he's the best player on the team.

He's not a curry or a Durant or a LeBron on the offensive side. Those are major. Not hard to tell a difference.
He's pretty good.

If he gets credit for team wins, he should get credit for team loses. Fair way, no more.

[YGWHI]

He's not a curry or a Durant or a LeBron on the offensive side. Those are major. Not hard to tell a difference.
He's pretty good.

I'd say you have a restrictive concept of 'major offensive weapon' ...IMO, there are more than two or three in the league and Kawhi is one of them this season.


If he gets credit for team wins, he should get credit for team loses. Fair way, no more.
Even if he plays good in those loses? That doesn't seem right.

He gets credit for the wins because Kawhi playing good to great is one of the main reasons for Spurs winning record, but he doesn't get credit for the victory when he plays bad in the game.

With the same criteria, we shouldn't blame him if he plays great and the Spurs still lose.

[SASdynasty!]

Porker was a one-way player & he wasn't a top 5 offensive player at any point of his career to be referred to as a "superstar". Isaiah Thomas this season is playing as well as Porker did at his PEAK & nobody is calling him a "superstar".:lol: http://bkref.com/tiny/o0hfb
Hahaha, you're comparing a guy who stat-pads on a bad team, has never won a playoff series or even shot 40% in playoff series to a FMVP who was one of only 2 opponents to ever outplay Lebron in the playoffs?

[Kawhitstorm]

Hahaha, you're comparing a guy who stat-pads on a bad team, has never won a playoff series or even shot 40% in playoff series to a FMVP who was one of only 2 opponents to ever outplay Lebron in the playoffs?

Through their first two playoff series, Isaiah has performed better despite not playing w/ anyone on Tim's level.:sleep

[Mnky]

I'd say you have a restrictive concept of 'major offensive weapon' ...IMO, there are more than two or three in the league and Kawhi is one of them this season.


Even if he plays good in those loses? That doesn't seem right.

He gets credit for the wins because Kawhi playing good to great is one of the main reasons for Spurs winning record, but he doesn't get credit for the victory when he plays bad in the game.

With the same criteria, we shouldn't blame him if he plays great and the Spurs still lose.

Nah, you're making things way Kore complicated than they need to be. Kawhi is a top 5 player, not a top 5 offensive player. Those top 5 are major offensive weapons. Once again, pretty simple logic.

As well, I said there should be a fair amount of credit BOTH ways. Your defense is a perfect world scenario, which we don't live in so we don't have to worry about.

[Kawhitstorm]

This current Spurs team is a title contender no matter what some in this forum would have us believe. So where is HE taking this team. It's on HIM no one else. No one can reasonably argue about Kawhi's greatness and how he is on a hall of fame trajectory and then when the team falls short of a championship deflect blame to every other player BUT him.

Jordan gets a pass for not even getting past the 2nd rd w/o Pippen only b/c he won w/ Pippen.

When Kawhi had a LEGIT supporting cast, he led the demolishing on LeBron & the Heatles. That wasn't the case in '15 & '16 when the only teammates that showed up were 39 yr old Tim against the Cripples along w/ Softridge making a cameo for 2 games against OKC.

You can criticize Kawhi if he wets the bed like LeBron did in the '11 Finals while getting outplayed by Jason fuckin' Terry or Dominos choking the '16 WCF playing w/ a superstar like Westbrook who led the team to 3 wins & Ibaka/Adams demolishing the Duds frontline.

[south side spur]

You can criticize Kawhi if he wets the bed like LeBron did in the '11 Finals while getting outplayed by Jason fuckin' Terry or Dominos choking the '16 WCF playing w/ a superstar like Westbrook who led the team to 3 wins & Ibaka/Adams demolishing the Duds frontline.

What would you call game 7 of the Clippers series? Regardless of whichever player did or didn't show up to that point is irrelevant. You want to compare Kawhi to the greats? It was just the 1st round but this could be considered a legacy building game. You really don't want to get into the metrics and video of this game do you?

You'd rather discuss who didn't show up the previous 6 games right? Be objective. Be honest. He shit the bed. You're a numbers guy it's right there in black and white.

I'm telling you I believe in Kawhis greatness but we can't lie about this shit. I'm not going to link that game because any of y'all so called metrics people know the numbers. It's just how you rationalize them. Having Kawhi be accountable or deflecting accountability to yalls favorite target, Parker.

Look I USED to be a Parker guy but it's evident he's not what he was. I want Murray to start...that's my position. Throw him into the fire. He'd provide a spark to the starting lineup IMO. But that Clippers game 7...as much as y'all would like to blame Parker he arguably had a better game than Leonard.

[Kawhitstorm]

What would you call game 7 of the Clippers series? Regardless of whichever player did or didn't show up to that point is irrelevant. You want to compare Kawhi to the greats? It was just the 1st round but this could be considered a legacy building game. You really don't want to get into the metrics and video of this game do you?

You'd rather discuss who didn't show up the previous 6 games right? Be objective. Be honest. He shit the bed. You're a numbers guy it's right there in black and white.

Kawhi wasn't even an All-Star or All-NBA player in '14-'15.:lol His prime started last season when he was the MAN from day one.

LeBron MISSED the LEASTERN conference playoffs in his second season when he was an All-NBA player.:wakeup

[south side spur]

LeBron MISSED the LEASTERN conference playoffs in his second season when he was an All-NBA player.:wakeup

Except, we're not talking about their 2nd season we're talking about their 4th. Everyone knows the rosters Jordan and LeBron had in their first few years can't compare to Kawhi's supporting cast.

[Kawhitstorm]

Except, we're not talking about their 2nd season we're talking about their 4th. Everyone knows the rosters Jordan and LeBron had in their first few years can't compare to Kawhi's supporting cast.

Yeah Kawhi's lone supporting cast of 39 year old Timmay against the Cripples was incomparable to the Cavs frontline which had All-Star Big Z averaging 17/9/2, Gooden putting up career best 14/9 & Sideshow Bob doing all the dirty work off the bench. (That's the same frontline that took 'em to the Finals)

[Kidd K]

Kawhi already surpassed PG level a season ago...That's why that comparison sounds that stupid right now in 2016.

I know what he was referring to, I was referring to the same thing. 2-3 years ago people were talking about him vs George. That was never unreasonable. MJ though? Yeah, I just don't see it being possible. MJ's offense was god-like. He was multiple tiers above Paul George. Years ago George was only half a tier or so above what Kawhi seemed to be turning in to. Now Kawhi's better than George, but still a far cry from Jordan. I don't see that gap being closed by very much tbh. Kawhi has the D but the offense is just way short.

[TheGreatYacht]

Yeah Kawhi's lone supporting cast of 39 year old Timmay against the Cripples was incomparable to the Cavs frontline which had All-Star Big Z averaging 17/9/2, Gooden putting up career best 14/9 & Sideshow Bob doing all the dirty work off the bench. (That's the same frontline that took 'em to the Finals)
What about the 67 win team last year? Aldridge, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Mills, Diaw, Green, Popovich, etc...

Does Kawhi need the fucking Monstars?

[bic50]

:claw

[Kawhitstorm]

What about the 67 win team last year? Aldridge, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Mills, Diaw, Green, Popovich, etc...

Let's see what happened to that great supporting cast 2 month later:

-Timmay/Bonner/K-Mart/Dre: Retired
-Turd Towers: Dumped
-Manure: Contemplated retirement & only came back b/c of a loyalty back-pay.
-Porker: TGY turned his back on him b/c he's completely TOSB
-Softridge: Trade rumors
-Poop: ST is calling for his head more than ever

The Rest:
-Patty: Couldn't hit a fuckin' shot against OKC
-Danny: had worst season of his career
-Fat Head: :lol
-Simmons: Couldn't get off the pine in the postseason

Kawhi finished 2nd in MVP b/c he carried a bunch of corpses to 60+ wins like LeBron did at the end of his first run w/ Cleveland.

[Kawhitstorm]

I know what he was referring to, I was referring to the same thing. 2-3 years ago people were talking about him vs George. That was never unreasonable. MJ though? Yeah, I just don't see it being possible. MJ's offense was god-like. He was multiple tiers above Paul George. Years ago George was only half a tier or so above what Kawhi seemed to be turning in to. Now Kawhi's better than George, but still a far cry from Jordan. I don't see that gap being closed by very much tbh. Kawhi has the D but the offense is just way short.

Nobody said he's Jordan but name me another two-way wing-player 25 or under that's more comparable to '87-'88 Jordan.:wakeup

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

:lol

Guess who isn't laughing:

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/lebronkawhi.gif

[TheGreatYacht]

Guess who isn't laughing:

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/lebronkawhi.gif
Late substitution, he was interrupted right before shooting the second free throw

[south side spur]

Yeah Kawhi's lone supporting cast of 39 year old Timmay against the Cripples was incomparable to the Cavs frontline which had All-Star Big Z averaging 17/9/2, Gooden putting up career best 14/9 & Sideshow Bob doing all the dirty work off the bench. (That's the same frontline that took 'em to the Finals)

You've deflected right back to that Clippers game 7. If you want Kawhi to be considered with Jordan or LeBron he's going to have to average close to 30 ppg these playoffs. He's got some work to do. He's been improving every season but this would be his biggest jump. It's not probable but I'm hoping he gets close. If he doesn't it won't be anyone else's fault not even Parker or Pop.

[Kawhitstorm]

Late substitution, he was interrupted right before shooting the second free throw

Kawhi did that on purpose to fuck w/ diva Queen Jamie.:toast

[Kawhitstorm]

You've deflected right back to that Clippers game 7. If you want Kawhi to be considered with Jordan or LeBron he's going to have to average close to 30 ppg these playoffs. He's got some work to do. He's been improving every season but this would be his biggest jump. It's not probable but I'm hoping he gets close. If he doesn't it won't be anyone else's fault not even Parker or Pop.

He DOESN'T have to average 30, he just has to maintain his level of play. LeBron didn't average 30 in any series let alone for the entire postseason during the 2013 championship run. He basically maintained his regular season PPG but his TS% actually dipped from 64% to 58%.

Let's compare Kawhi's '16 playoffs performance to '13 LeBron: http://bkref.com/tiny/ROakr
I guess, you guys would also have run LeBron out of town if he was a Spurs.:wakeup


Context: Jordan played in an era where zone defense was illegal thus defense couldn't load up on a player & you couldn't double anyone without the ball b/c of illegal defense which meant he could play 1-on-1 even if he got cracked when he went to the rim. (Hand checking wouldn't have bothered guys like Kawhi/LeBron b/c they are stronger than their peers just like Jordan but finesse guys like Curry would have suffered tremendously)

[south side spur]

He DOESN'T have to average 30, he just has to maintain his level of play. LeBron didn't average 30 in any series let alone for the entire postseason during the 2013 championship run.

Ok so how about 27.5 ppg? And stop with this run him out of town bullshit. This is what he has to do to be mentioned with LeBron and Jordan.

[Kawhitstorm]

Ok so how about 27.5 ppg? And stop with this run him out of town bullshit. This is what he has to do to be mentioned with LeBron and Jordan.
LeBron essentially got run out of town from Cleveland by critiques b/c he couldn't get past Doc's Celtics.:wakeup

[south side spur]

LeBron essentially got run out of town from Cleveland by critiques b/c he couldn't get past Doc's Celtics.:wakeup

That's an interesting way of looking at The Decision. I think most people would say HE ran otherwise why would the people of Ohio feel so betrayed? Because they wanted him gone?

I guess that is a millennial perspective. This is difficult. Hmmmm...I'll run away instead of dealing with it.

Then deflecting blame onto others instead of accepting responsibility.

[Kawhitstorm]

That's an interesting way of looking at The Decision. I think most people would say HE ran otherwise why would the people of Ohio feel so betrayed? Because they wanted him gone?

I guess that is a millennial perspective. This is difficult. Hmmmm...I'll run away instead of dealing with it.

Millennials aren't stupid enough to rot w/ one franchise if they aren't putting the right piece around them b/c it's a player league now.:rolleyes

[south side spur]

Millennials aren't stupid enough to rot w/ one franchise if they aren't putting the right piece around them b/c it's a player league now.:rolleyes

Exactly, LeBron left. He wasn't run off.

[Kawhitstorm]

Exactly, LeBron left. He wasn't run off.

Getting criticized while the media was riding Kirby's dick had a LOT to do w/ why he left.:wakeup

[sasaint]

Hmmm... I hope he isn't maxing out his talent. He's improved year-on-year since he came here. I think he's not done. I also think he could be used better, but that's a whole other discussion. I know he would benefit from having at least one big man who actually plays in the paint.

My point is, it's pretty spectacular when he makes those crazy shots. But he would be so much better if he didn't have to make them so often. And I think that Pop featuring (forcing) him on offense this way keeps him from dominating on D the way he could be. That's also another whole discussion.

But I think if you're going to talk about a guy in terms of "greatest of his generation" it ought to be obvious that he is. I don't think Kawhi is there yet. That's no slight, I just don't think you can see him head and shoulders above his generation right now.

:tu A true, good PG would benefit Kawhi greatly.

[south side spur]

Getting criticized while the media was riding Kirby's dick had a LOT to do w/ why he left.:wakeup

Can we at least agree that Kawhi isn't a wet vagina like LeBron emotionally? He's not going to run away from the Spurs because he's not a fragile bitchass. Kawhi seems to have a healthy self concept and doesn't have the need for attention like LeBron.

Also, regardless of what you might think he's not under any pressure whatsoever playing in San Antonio. Why would he go to LA or another market where he'll obviously be under more pressure from the media. Makes absolutely no sense.

So this whole Kawhi isn't appreciated and he'll get run out of town argument is a reach

[DAF86]

:cry "Kawhi has to be the best defender on the league and average 30 ppg" :cry

[skulls138]

:tu A true, good PG would benefit Kawhi greatly.Parkers always been a scoring PG. True hes not scoring like he used to but hes never been a "true" PG in the sense of CP3 or Nash and weve won 4 titles with him. Maybe 3 because he might have been hurt during one of them. But I think a passing guard can be a detriment sometimes in that the other players become complacent looking for the brilliant pass, weakening their skills. Team passing is the ultimate passing and in that sense TP is definitely good enough.

[Kawhitstorm]

Can we at least agree that Kawhi isn't a wet vagina like LeBron emotionally? He's not going to run away from the Spurs because he's not a fragile bitchass. Kawhi seems to have a healthy self concept and doesn't have the need for attention like LeBron.

Also, regardless of what you might think he's not under any pressure whatsoever playing in San Antonio. Why would he go to LA or another market where he'll obviously be under more pressure from the media. Makes absolutely no sense.

So this whole Kawhi isn't appreciated and he'll get run out of town argument is a reach

Tim almost left when his supporting cast was AARP Admiral. If PATFO oblige & let Porker play until he's 40 like Turnobili along w/ re-signing Softridge then Kawhi might start reconsidering his long term prospects.:lol

Kawhi doesn't have to jump on a championship team's bandwagon or play in a big market, he could play w/ Anthony Davis in New Orleans or Towns in Minnesota & form a dynamic duo like LeBron did when he went to back to Cleveland. (Would be hilarious if Wiggins got traded for a 3rd wheel, again:lol)

[Kidd K]

Nobody said he's Jordan but name me another two-way wing-player 25 or under that's more comparable to '87-'88 Jordan.:wakeup

His offense is nowhere near what Jordan's was though. So you're pretty much just asking me to name a scoring wing who plays good defense.

Sidney Moncrief comes to mind if you want a better comparison for Kawhi. Kawhi's stats are much more comparable to his at 24-25 too than MJ. And neither were close to MJ tbh.

Kawhi's excellent, but comparing to MJ, we should probably stop that.

[Quadzilla99]

Agreed. Kawhi is an alpha. DK got carried by Stern, Phil, MVPippen, and the most stacked rosters of his era.

Do people fall for this?

[r0drig0lac]

Kawhi's excellent, but comparing to MJ, we should probably stop that.

[PopTheGOAT]

[QUOTE=south side spur;8838818]There's a difference between appreciation and homoeroticism.[QUOTE]


Oh, man. Truth nuke there. From someone with 180 posts even. :lol :toast





Looking at the stands most nights, they don't go to the games either.
Its funny how you say that like having thousands of posts somehow gives a poster merit

[Kawhitstorm]

Sidney Moncrief comes to mind if you want a better comparison for Kawhi. Kawhi's stats are much more comparable to his at 24-25 too than MJ. And neither were close to MJ tbh.

It was easier to score 1-on-1 in the 80s/90s b/c they were no zone defense & you couldn't double without the ball b/c of illegal defense. In any case, Kawhi per 100 possession is averaging 37ppg on 25 shots (PPS: 1.43) vs. '87-'88 Jordan's 43 on 30 shots (PPS: 1.43).

Moncrief was more of a combo guard like Joe Dumars rather than a wing-player, he would have ZERO chance of guarding LeBron.

[GSH]

[QUOTE=GSH;8838834][QUOTE=south side spur;8838818]There's a difference between appreciation and homoeroticism.
Its funny how you say that like having thousands of posts somehow gives a poster merit


Is that what I meant? Thank you, Mister Helper, for telling me what I was thinking. :lol

You obviously haven't been paying attention. There are plenty of people with thousands of posts who are absolutely brain-damaged. My point was that even a person who's only been around a short time can recognize and call out the blatant cock-gobblers.

Actually, the guy I was talking about is a consistently solid poster, from what I've seen.

[Kidd K]

It was easier to score 1-on-1 in the 80s/90s b/c they were no zone defense & you couldn't double without the ball b/c of illegal defense. In any case, Kawhi per 100 possession is averaging 37ppg on 25 shots (PPS: 1.43) vs. '87-'88 Jordan's 43 on 30 shots (PPS: 1.43).

Moncrief was more of a combo guard like Joe Dumars rather than a wing-player, he would have ZERO chance of guarding LeBron.

Scottie Pippen then, since you keep moving the goalposts. And if you bring up 3pt shooting, I'll just point out their eFG% being nearly identical using Pippen's seasons at 25-26 years old.

Ofc Pippen was a MUCH better playmaker and passer than Kawhi though, but there's a similarly-sized great defender for you who can also score and contribute on offense at a high level.

[Kawhitstorm]

Scottie Pippen then, since you keep moving the goalposts. And if you bring up 3pt shooting, I'll just point out their eFG% being nearly identical using Pippen's seasons at 25-26 years old.

Ofc Pippen was a MUCH better playmaker and passer than Kawhi though, but there's a similarly-sized great defender for you who can also score and contribute on offense at a high level.

Pippen isn't on the same level as Kawhi as far as scoring in the half-court which is what Jordan is known for & what Kawhi NOW basically does as well as any player in the league while Pippen was an open court player. (Pippen HIMSELF pointed that out in an interview, 22:16 mark: http://www.podcastone.com/the-big-po...FdgUgQod7zwC8A (http://www.podcastone.com/the-big-podcast-with-shaq?gclid=CPm76a-F88sCFdgUgQod7zwC8A))

Iggy at 25 is more comparable to 25 yr old Pippen: http://bkref.com/tiny/6O1sx

If you are hell bent on not comparing Kawhi to Jordan then the next best (other than Durant/Bron) is Wade who was on his way to becoming Jordan 2.0 before he started breaking down at 25 (twice as many assists but twice as many turnovers & higher usage than Harden): http://bkref.com/tiny/oC96a

[AFBlue]

Stop comparing Kawhi to Jordan :lol
Theyre not even in the same atmosphere :lol

You right. Kawhi is a much better defender and rebounder.

[cutewizard]

Yet he already is improving in season. He is starting to find the open man better than he was early in the year. Fewer bad shots and turnovers as he works through dealing with double teams.

He is fun as hell to watch.

-----------------------------------------------

:bobo

[daledondale]

I love Kawhi, but he shouldn't be in the same sentence with Jordan.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I love Kawhi, but he shouldn't be in the same sentence with Jordan.

He models his game on Jordan. His jab step and turnaround look like Jordan.

His technique on pull up and fade-aways off the dribble look like Kobe.

[SpursforSix]

I love Kawhi, but he shouldn't be in the same sentence with Jordan.

I agree. Jordan didn't ring until his 7th year in the league.

[Kidd K]

Pippen isn't on the same level as Kawhi as far as scoring in the half-court which is what Jordan is known for & what Kawhi NOW basically does as well as any player in the league while Pippen was an open court player. (Pippen HIMSELF pointed that out in an interview, 22:16 mark: http://www.podcastone.com/the-big-po...FdgUgQod7zwC8A (http://www.podcastone.com/the-big-podcast-with-shaq?gclid=CPm76a-F88sCFdgUgQod7zwC8A))

Iggy at 25 is more comparable to 25 yr old Pippen: http://bkref.com/tiny/6O1sx

If you are hell bent on not comparing Kawhi to Jordan then the next best (other than Durant/Bron) is Wade who was on his way to becoming Jordan 2.0 before he started breaking down at 25 (twice as many assists but twice as many turnovers & higher usage than Harden): http://bkref.com/tiny/oC96a

And Kawhi isn't on the same level as Jordan.

Kawhi is much closer to Pippen than MJ. Leonard's more efficient (due to the team's style) while Pipp was the better playmaker. Ofc they're different players, but it's a good comparison for sure. Jordan on the other was better at everything offensively besides threes.

I mean you're comparing 24-25 year old Kawhi to people . .bro Jordan was averaging 35-37 PPG at 23-24 years old lol. And nearly double Kawhi's assists. So he was scoring 50% more and assisting 100% more. Getting twice as many blocks and 50% more steals. It's literally not close. At all.

I love Kawhi, but please dude. He's no Jordan and nor was Wade or Durant or Kobe either. I know newer NBA fans like to be hipsters and shit on NBA eras they didn't watch, but uh. . .yeah MJ is not a dude people prop up due to nostalgia. He was an unstoppable force that many, many people aspired to be like.

[dabom]

He models his game on Jordan. His jab step and turnaround look like Jordan.

His technique on pull up and fade-aways off the dribble look like Kobe.

His offense is modeled after both of them. Kawhi has huge hands like Jordan too. Only a few wings can do a one hand'ed pump fake like both of them.

[Mikeanaro]

And Kawhi isn't on the same level as Jordan.

Kawhi is much closer to Pippen than MJ. Leonard's more efficient (due to the team's style) while Pipp was the better playmaker. Ofc they're different players, but it's a good comparison for sure. Jordan on the other was better at everything offensively besides threes.

I mean you're comparing 24-25 year old Kawhi to people . .bro Jordan was averaging 35-37 PPG at 23-24 years old lol. And nearly double Kawhi's assists. So he was scoring 50% more and assisting 100% more. Getting twice as many blocks and 50% more steals. It's literally not close. At all.

I love Kawhi, but please dude. He's no Jordan and nor was Wade or Durant or Kobe either. I know newer NBA fans like to be hipsters and shit on NBA eras they didn't watch, but uh. . .yeah MJ is not a dude people prop up due to nostalgia. He was an unstoppable force that many, many people aspired to be like.
They belong to different eras/systems/team mates so we should not even compare these guys because its impossible to have a fair discussion when they lived very different situations.

[Blackjack]

Jordan is widely considered to be the GOAT.

Kawhi is putting up numbers comparable to MJ at the same age.

Unless I'm missing something, this seems to be a thread of perspective: Kawhi Leonard has become a player that you can can compare to someone who's considered to be the GOAT when it comes to stats at the same age.

That's pretty fucking impressive - and thread worthy.

[Kawhitstorm]

And Kawhi isn't on the same level as Jordan.

Big Dummy, I NEVER said he was on '87-'88 Jordan's level but that he's the only one that has scored at just an efficient rate while playing just as good a defense. It's not like I made the comparison b/c they are relatively the same size, have giant hands & shoot fadeaways.:lol


Kawhi is much closer to Pippen than MJ. Leonard's more efficient (due to the team's style) while Pipp was the better playmaker.

:lmao

So, Kawhi playing w/ Aldridge in a 90s ISO offense is a "better system" than Pippen playing off Jordan in the triangle? If anything Pippen should be more efficient since he got a LOT of transition buckets b/c the Bulls used to generate a lot of turnovers.


Jordan on the other was better at everything offensively besides threes.

Jordan's bread & butter in the half-court was postups & mid-ranges, two things Kawhi does at an elite level. Pippen had a mid-range game where he would jab step & shoot if the defender is back off but his post-ups were more like Magic where he would backdown for layups or find cutters out of the post.

Just look at how many transition buckets 25 yr old Pippen used to get::lol

P6f9AlHWRGg


I mean you're comparing 24-25 year old Kawhi to people . .bro Jordan was averaging 35-37 PPG at 23-24 years old lol.

Bruh, I think I already broke it down for you. Kawhi at 25 is scoring as many points per shot as '87-'88 Jordan. Kawhi is averaging 17 shots while Jordan was averaging 24 shots which makes him as much of a gunner as WestBrick.:wow

Kawhi is WAY MORE EFFICIENT than Kirby who had the luxury of playing off PEAK Shaq in the same system as Jordan under the same coach.

:wakeup

[Kawhitstorm]

Jordan is widely considered to be the GOAT.

Kawhi is putting up numbers comparable to MJ at the same age.

Unless I'm missing something, this seems to be a thread of perspective: Kawhi Leonard has become a player that you can can compare to someone who's considered to be the GOAT when it comes to stats at the same age.

That's pretty fucking impressive - and thread worthy.

Some folks are underestimating the power of the 3 point shot which wasn't part of Jordan's repertoire early in his career but Kawhi has been able to convert those long 2s into 3s which has enable him to be just as an efficient scorer as '87-'88 Jordan while Wade for example had to earn it the hard way which is why I consider him Jordan 2.0

[Benoit]

Wait wait wait wait wait

Jordan???? MICHAEL JORDAN?!?!?!?!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

this guy couldnt even outplay Matt Barnes in a playoff series LMFAO JORDAN????? what the fuck????

He got beat by a lower seed last season lmao doesnt make his teammates better, product of Pops system

[Kawhitstorm]

Wait wait wait wait wait

Jordan???? MICHAEL JORDAN?!?!?!?!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

He got beat by a lower seed last season lmao doesnt make his teammates better, product of Pops system

Yeah, the lower seed had none other than the guy averaging a triple double as the wing-man.:sleep

[Robz4000]

Let's get a few things straight:

-Parker was a superstar caliber player for a few seasons
-He was a Top 5 player in the league in 2012-2013, if not Top 3
-When its all said and done, Kawhi will be remembered as the superior player which is by no means a knock on MVParker (but Porker can fuck off)

[Blackjack]

Wade's definitely the closest I've seen to Jordan. Kobe had great cosmetics, like an Elvis impersonator, but Wade's game and attack - offensively, specifically - were much more MJ.

People who've experienced Jordan mostly through highlights, don't realize his game aged into what Kobe tried to mimic or that the shrug after the 6 threes in Portland was because he wasn't a 3-point shooter. Hell, Wade even got complacent at the free-throw line like Jordan.

Kawhi's his own dude. Pretty damn impressive to be able to draw statistical comparisons to some of the best that ever played, but don't know that there's a direct comparison. Which is pretty fucking cool, too.

[Kidd K]

Big Dummy, I NEVER said he was on '87-'88 Jordan's level but that he's the only one that has scored at just an efficient rate while playing just as good a defense. It's not like I made the comparison b/c they are relatively the same size, have giant hands & shoot fadeaways.:lol



:lmao

So, Kawhi playing w/ Aldridge in a 90s ISO offense is a "better system" than Pippen playing off Jordan in the triangle? If anything Pippen should be more efficient since he got a LOT of transition buckets b/c the Bulls used to generate a lot of turnovers.



Jordan's bread & butter in the half-court was postups & mid-ranges, two things Kawhi does at an elite level. Pippen had a mid-range game where he would jab step & shoot if the defender is back off but his post-ups were more like Magic where he would backdown for layups or find cutters out of the post.

Just look at how many transition buckets 25 yr old Pippen used to get::lol

P6f9AlHWRGg



Bruh, I think I already broke it down for you. Kawhi at 25 is scoring as many points per shot as '87-'88 Jordan. Kawhi is averaging 17 shots while Jordan was averaging 24 shots which makes him as much of a gunner as WestBrick.:wow

Kawhi is WAY MORE EFFICIENT than Kirby who had the luxury of playing off PEAK Shaq in the same system as Jordan under the same coach.

:wakeup

Yeah, I'm a dummy because I pointed out how your logic is easily applied to an even greater effect by pointing out the difference in their offensive ability to debunk your "point". Makes sense; oh wait it doesn't. If you have no defense for your bad logic, say nothing or admit you're wrong instead of be a fag and insult. Be consistent or stop speaking.

Kawhi's scoring is not near Jordan's. Both volume and efficiency both count otherwise we might as well bring up role players too.


Bruh, I think I already broke it down for you. Kawhi at 25 is scoring as many points per shot as '87-'88 Jordan

You didn't break anything down besides common sense. Again, his volume of points is no where near. We might as well include role players then. Kyle Korver scores more points per shot than Jordan, fuck, he's just as good if not better an offensive player as Jordan! I mean, it's a fair argument too right? He scores about as much less than Kawhi as Kawhi does Jordan.

This is why your logic sucks dude. Jordan dominated way more offensive plays and carried a much bigger load. You realize Jordan averaged about as many offensive win shares as Kawhi's first four seasons combined right? And about double Kawhi's best season ever. His offense is not close to Jordan's. There is no argument there. Less shots = more likely to be more efficient since you get to take better ones since you don't have to force anything. This is why roleplayers tend to have high efficiency, and why "stars" who don't take a ton of shots also often have really high efficiency (such as James Harden before leaving the Thunder).

[99 Problems]

I agree. Jordan didn't ring until his 7th year in the league.


That's right and he had to keep elevating his game to overcome frustrations to get there. Kawhi been elevating his game each season at a scary rate tbh.

[Kawhitstorm]

You didn't break anything down besides common sense. Again, his volume of points is no where near. We might as well include role players then. Kyle Korver scores more points per shot than Jordan, fuck, he's just as good if not better an offensive player as Jordan! I mean, it's a fair argument too right? He scores about as much less than Kawhi as Kawhi does Jordan.

Kawhi is top 5 in the number of 20+ games this season & averaging 24 as the first option. Korver has NEVER been the 1st option & was ranked 84th in scoring when he had that ridiculous shooting season in '13-'14.:lol

Your logic sucks:sleep


There is no argument there. Less shots = more likely to be more efficient since you get to take better ones since you don't have to force anything. This is why roleplayers tend to have high efficiency, and why "stars" who don't take a ton of shots also often have really high efficiency (such as James Harden before leaving the Thunder).

Big Dummy, Kawhi increased his scoring from last season by 3 points while MAINTAINING his efficiency.:sleep

When they set their career high PPG season, Curry/Durant INCREASED their EFFICIENCY & so did Jordan.:lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

Wade's definitely the closest I've seen to Jordan. Kobe had great cosmetics, like an Elvis impersonator, but Wade's game and attack - offensively, specifically - were much more MJ.

People who've experienced Jordan mostly through highlights, don't realize his game aged into what Kobe tried to mimic or that the shrug after the 6 threes in Portland was because he wasn't a 3-point shooter. Hell, Wade even got complacent at the free-throw line like Jordan.

Kawhi's his own dude. Pretty damn impressive to be able to draw statistical comparisons to some of the best that ever played, but don't know that there's a direct comparison. Which is pretty fucking cool, too.

Let's compare '96-'97 Jordan who set a career high in 3 point makes to Kawhi: http://bkref.com/tiny/ZLoM4

Most of their per 100 possession stats (including DRtg/ORtg & PER) are basically the same except for Jordan taking 7 more shots to average 4 more points & having 3% more usage rate to average one more assist. I can confidently say Kawhi can match Jordan's scoring average if his TS% took a 4 point hit.:lol

[daslicer]

Too bad he wasn't MJ in the clutch today when it mattered.

[TheGreatYacht]

Poor man's Jae Crowder lmfao

[Kawhitstorm]

Kawhi now has the same NET rating & is averaging the same amount of points per shot as '87-'88 Jordan.:wow: http://bkref.com/tiny/eJ4kw

[dabom]

Kawhi=Jordan. He just needs a pippen. :lol

[apalisoc_9]

Kawhi now has the same NET rating & is averaging the same amount of points per shot as '87-'88 Jordan.:wow: http://bkref.com/tiny/eJ4kw

Should be MVP...the media trying to sell inorganic triple doubles like pancakes.

Disgusting.

[cd98]

Yikes, getting carried away here. Kawhi and Pippen is an interesting comparison. Both great defenders. I give Kawhi the nod in scoring, but Pippen the nod in playmaking. But Jordan? Come on. Kawhi isn't better than prime LeBron, so he's absolutely not better than prime Jordan. Yes, Kawhi is a fantastic defender, probably better than Jordan, though Jordan was damn good (the Bulls used to kill guards with Jordan, Pippen, and Harper playing all at the same time). But as a scorer, Jordan was as good a shooter inside the three point line as Kawhi, but he was even better driver and finisher. His offensive game in the paint is elite. I would say Kawhi is still an average finisher in the paint (not that he isn't an overall great scorer, but he's not elite finisher, just a good one). Plus, as great as Kawhi has been, Jordan willed his team to consistent greatness. Kawhi may get there, but he's not there yet.

[DAF86]

Yikes, getting carried away here. Kawhi and Pippen is an interesting comparison. Both great defenders. I give Kawhi the nod in scoring, but Pippen the nod in playmaking. But Jordan? Come on. Kawhi isn't better than prime LeBron, so he's absolutely not better than prime Jordan. Yes, Kawhi is a fantastic defender, probably better than Jordan, though Jordan was damn good (the Bulls used to kill guards with Jordan, Pippen, and Harper playing all at the same time). But as a scorer, Jordan was as good a shooter inside the three point line as Kawhi, but he was even better driver and finisher. His offensive game in the paint is elite. I would say Kawhi is still an average finisher in the paint (not that he isn't an overall great scorer, but he's not elite finisher, just a good one). Plus, as great as Kawhi has been, Jordan willed his team to consistent greatness. Kawhi may get there, but he's not there yet.

Kawhi has experienced nothing but greatness since he entered the league, tbh. Both individually and as part of a team.

[cd98]

Kawhi has experienced nothing but greatness since he entered the league, tbh. Both individually and as part of a team. He's been great, but not Jordan great. When he came into the league, he had the benefit of Tim, Tony, and Manu. The last two years, he flamed out in the playoffs. To be Jordanesque, he's got to be great in the playoffs, and especially great as the lead dog. He's had the lead dog role for the last two years with somewhat disappointing playoff results, but this year may be different and the shadow of Tim Duncan is gone, so Kawhi will get the credit this year if the Spurs go deep in the playoffs and he'll get the blame if they don't.

[dabom]

Jordan was 28 when he won his first championship. He didn't just start winning them right off the bat. :lol

Kawhi is 25 right now.

[DAF86]

He's been great, but not Jordan great. When he came into the league, he had the benefit of Tim, Tony, and Manu. The last two years, he flamed out in the playoffs. To be Jordanesque, he's got to be great in the playoffs, and especially great as the lead dog. He's had the lead dog role for the last two years with somewhat disappointing playoff results, but this year may be different and the shadow of Tim Duncan is gone, so Kawhi will get the credit this year if the Spurs go deep in the playoffs and he'll get the blame if they don't.

It took Jordan quite some time to accomplish greatness in the playoffs, tbh. Kawhi won finals MVP at age 23. I'm not trying to compare them, MJ is the GOAT, I just wanted to point out that Kawhi has reached a lot more "greatness" earlier in his career than Jordan, tbh.

[Kawhitstorm]

Yikes, getting carried away here. Kawhi and Pippen is an interesting comparison. Both great defenders. I give Kawhi the nod in scoring, but Pippen the nod in playmaking. But Jordan? Come on. Kawhi isn't better than prime LeBron, so he's absolutely not better than prime Jordan. Yes, Kawhi is a fantastic defender, probably better than Jordan, though Jordan was damn good (the Bulls used to kill guards with Jordan, Pippen, and Harper playing all at the same time). But as a scorer, Jordan was as good a shooter inside the three point line as Kawhi, but he was even better driver and finisher. His offensive game in the paint is elite. I would say Kawhi is still an average finisher in the paint (not that he isn't an overall great scorer, but he's not elite finisher, just a good one). Plus, as great as Kawhi has been, Jordan willed his team to consistent greatness. Kawhi may get there, but he's not there yet.

Consistent greatness?:lmao

'87-'88 was Jordan's first MVP season & the Bulls only only won 50 games before eventually losing in the 2nd rd.:lol

The Bulls in '86-'87 were basically the equivalent of the '06 Lakers & Jordan was stat padding like Kirby.:lol

[cd98]

Jordan was 28 when he won his first championship. He didn't just start winning them right off the bat. :lol

Kawhi is 25 right now. Yes, but Jordan was on a lottery like team his first few years. Kawhi walked into a team full of NBA champs and has basically played with all-stars. Even before Pippen was great, Jordan was already ascendant. No disrespect to Kawhi, I hope he is better than Jordan as am not a fan of Jordan and I am a huge Spur fan, but before I start comparing Kawhi to Jordan, he needs to play on Jordan's level for a whole season and the playoffs. He's having a great season, let's see where he takes the Spurs before we start the Jordan comparisons.

[dabom]

Yes, but Jordan was on a lottery like team his first few years. Kawhi walked into a team full of NBA champs and has basically played with all-stars. Even before Pippen was great, Jordan was already ascendant. No disrespect to Kawhi, I hope he is better than Jordan as am not a fan of Jordan and I am a huge Spur fan, but before I start comparing Kawhi to Jordan, he needs to play on Jordan's level for a whole season and the playoffs. He's having a great season, let's see where he takes the Spurs before we start the Jordan comparisons.

Kawhi is an MVP level player. No one cares if you don't like the comparisons. :lmao

[cd98]

Kawhi is an MVP level player. No one cares if you don't like the comparisons. :lmao Ha, I guess not, except you did respond so you must care on some level.

[YGWHI]

Yes, but Jordan was on a lottery like team his first few years. Kawhi walked into a team full of NBA champs and has basically played with all-stars. Even before Pippen was great, Jordan was already ascendant. No disrespect to Kawhi, I hope he is better than Jordan as am not a fan of Jordan and I am a huge Spur fan, but before I start comparing Kawhi to Jordan, he needs to play on Jordan's level for a whole season and the playoffs. He's having a great season, let's see where he takes the Spurs before we start the Jordan comparisons.

Statistically, Kawhi can be there, he's putting numbers than just prime Tim had on the Spurs. But this comparison between Jordan and Kawhi is stupid. No one was, is, or will be better than him. Neither LeBron, who has more flaws than people want to admit.

But I wouldn't use the line of "Jordan was already ascendat" before Pippen. Because when a young player like Kawhi plays on a stacked team with multiple HoFs it's likely he won't have the ball in his hands and won't make an instant impact on offense. That young player won't have the opportunities to develop his whole game until he gets traded or those HoFs get old...

Jordan playing in a weak team in his early 20's was ascendat for the simple reason he didn't have to share the ball with guys like Spurs Big3 and his development was in other way than Kawhi's

[YGWHI]

he needs to play on Jordan's level for a whole season and the playoffs

He won't be MJ but I truly believe that Kawhi will have that type of season in his career.

Anyway, most people say they can't wait to watch Kawhi reaching his prime in two or three years and dominanting the league...I'm not one of them.

I'm just enjoying his present, enjoying the process. Not many fans have the the honor and pleasure to witness the emergence of a superstar on their favorite team.

I was too young in prime Tim's years to understand and value it. Now, I won't miss any minute of Kawhi's path...

[cd98]

Statistically, Kawhi can be there, he's putting numbers than just prime Tim had on the Spurs. But this comparison between Jordan and Kawhi is stupid. No one was, is, or will be better than him. Neither LeBron, who has more flaws than people want to admit.

But I wouldn't use the line of "Jordan was already ascendat" before Pippen. Because when a young player like Kawhi plays on a stacked team with multiple HoFs it's likely he won't have the ball in his hands and won't make an instant impact on offense. That young player won't have the opportunities to develop his whole game until he gets traded or those HoFs get old...

Jordan playing in a weak team in his early 20's was ascendat for the simple reason he didn't have to share the ball with guys like Spurs Big3 and his development was in other way than Kawhi's

That's fair except Jordan's offensive ability was so advanced even for a first year guy. Tim's numbers are down because the pace in that era was slow. Basically they got teams in a half court game and just defended them into oblivion and Tim just posted up, are up shot clock, and then scored or passed for an open three. The offenses now are so different. But hey, Kawhi is having a great year and given how quickly he has progressed in his relatively short career, he could be scary in two years. That said, when we talk Jordan, we talk best ever, and there's a lot of ground to cover for Kawhi to get there.

[Kawhitstorm]

That's fair except Jordan's offensive ability was so advanced even for a first year guy. Tim's numbers are down because the pace in that era was slow. Basically they got teams in a half court game and just defended them into oblivion and Tim just posted up, are up shot clock, and then scored or passed for an open three. The offenses now are so different. But hey, Kawhi is having a great year and given how quickly he has progressed in his relatively short career, he could be scary in two years. That said, when we talk Jordan, we talk best ever, and there's a lot of ground to cover for Kawhi to get there.

Jordan in the 80s was basically the same level of athlete as WestBrick; Kawhi is more like '96-'98 Jordan. The best comparison being '95-'96 when Jordan shot 42% from 3 & was still an elite defender. Many folks forget that he was basically coasting on defense ala LeBron b/w '96-'98.:lol

Kawhi could EASILY match '95-'96 Jordan (including assists) if he was allowed to ball-hog as much as DeFrozen: http://bkref.com/tiny/NKiul

[south side spur]

Where are these idiots now? All that sh*t talking. What a joke.

[Phenomanul]

Jordan in the 80s was basically the same level of athlete as WestBrick; Kawhi is more like '96-'98 Jordan. The best comparison being '95-'96 when Jordan shot 42% from 3 & was still an elite defender. Many folks forget that he was basically coasting on defense ala LeBron b/w '96-'98.:lol

Kawhi could EASILY match '95-'96 Jordan (including assists) if he was allowed to ball-hog as much as DeFrozen: http://bkref.com/tiny/NKiul

Pop wanted to play a brand of basketball that led to back-to-back 60+ win seasons. During those seasons Kawhi's numbers were All-Star level and yet he wanted more. Kawhi it seemed wanted to be treated like a "superstar", or rather Uncle Dennis wanted Kawhi to be treated as such.

Ironically, Pop's "take a back seat" approach was meant to preserve Kawhi's health which then shifted the focus of the offense to a game plan that could be more consistent - LaMarcus Aldridge was the focus of the offense NOT BECAUSE he was a better player than Kawhi, but because Pop knew that this approach maximized wins (and because he was available most games). Kawhi's camp could not understand this, and apparently still don't understand this logic.

Kawhi's legacy would've been greater had he stayed in San Antonio. His uncle is simply just too greedy to realize this.

[daslicer]

PjktqBKDt-M

[ZeusWillJudge]

http://bkref.com/tiny/eJ4kw


Next time you want to pin everything on Kawhi for the team's shortcomings, let me know when you find guys 25 or under who aren't regarded as the best of their respective generations (Jordan/LeBron aka FREAK athletes) who can do better than Kawhi has so far this season as a two-way wing-player.:rolleyes: http://bkref.com/tiny/l69Yf

The only other player that can do what Kawhi does is Durant who is a 7ft tall alien & maybe Giannis (another 7ft tall alien) in the future if he learns how to shoot. (Kawhi was a better scorer than PEAK Pippen aka rich man's Iggy last season)

Kawhi is essentially no more athletic than Carmelo & he is now just as good a scorer as the guy that was once regarded as the best pure scorer in the league: http://bkref.com/tiny/bXQZm

If Kawhi had Paul George's athleticism & height, he would be the best 2-way player since PEAK LeBron.


LOL. And now you've done something that no other fanboy has ever done at your age group.

Starting a "greatest ever" thread, and the clincher last sentence starts with "IF". :lmao IF my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

[RC_Drunkford]

LOL. And now you've done something that no other fanboy has ever done at your age group.

Starting a "greatest ever" thread, and the clincher last sentence starts with "IF". :lmao IF my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

his takes are very "iffy"


Kawhi could EASILY match '95-'96 Jordan (including assists) if he was allowed to ball-hog as much as DeFrozen: http://bkref.com/tiny/NKiul

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[daslicer]

Jordan in the 80s was basically the same level of athlete as WestBrick; Kawhi is more like '96-'98 Jordan. The best comparison being '95-'96 when Jordan shot 42% from 3 & was still an elite defender. Many folks forget that he was basically coasting on defense ala LeBron b/w '96-'98.:lol

Kawhi could EASILY match '95-'96 Jordan (including assists) if he was allowed to ball-hog as much as DeFrozen: http://bkref.com/tiny/NKiul

Harlem why are you so obsessed with Kawhi? It seems like you go back forth with loving Lebron and Kawhi.

[Kawhitstorm]

IF my aunt had balls, I would still be a bitch.

FIFY

[Kawhitstorm]

Pop wanted to play a brand of basketball that led to back-to-back 60+ win seasons. During those seasons Kawhi's numbers were All-Star level and yet he wanted more. Kawhi it seemed wanted to be treated like a "superstar", or rather Uncle Dennis wanted Kawhi to be treated as such.

Ironically, Pop's "take a back seat" approach was meant to preserve Kawhi's health which then shifted the focus of the offense to a game plan that could be more consistent - LaMarcus Aldridge was the focus of the offense NOT BECAUSE he was a better player than Kawhi, but because Pop knew that this approach maximized wins (and because he was available most games). Kawhi's camp could not understand this, and apparently still don't understand this logic.

Kawhi's legacy would've been greater had he stayed in San Antonio. His uncle is simply just too greedy to realize this.

Yeah, his legacy would have been on par with Fatty Mills:bang

[Phenomanul]

Yeah, his legacy would have been on par with Fatty Mills:bang

You're exaggeration here exposes the faulty logic of your position.

[BackHome]

Well this sure didn't age very well "Kawhi is doing something only Jordan has done at his age group (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265372&goto=newpost)
:lol