Bertans and Murray vs Simmons and Anderson

[apalisoc_9]

Can we safely say now that Bertans and Murray are better prospects than Anderson and Simmons in their respective rookie years.

[dabom]

Tons better. Agree with OP.

[ducks]

Simmons has potential just has to shot when open

[Chinook]

That was the case before the season too. Murray is oozing with potential, and Bertans has been a pro for so long. Anderson and Simmons might have been better players as rookies, but Murray and Bertans are possibly the best non-Kawhi prospects the team has had since Parker.

[DAF86]

That was the case before the season too. Murray is oozing with potential, and Bertans has been a pro for so long. Anderson and Simmons might have been better players as rookies, but Murray and Bertans are possibly the best non-Kawhi prospects the team has had since Parker.

You don't consider Manu a prospect?

[apalisoc_9]

Just watching theblast 5 minutes...I mean, those are the minites where Anderson and Simmons should be showing control and better assertivness...but Murray is already showing them how to be assertive.

Bertans has shown more assertivness in the games he played this year than Kyle whole career..

It's a shame really because Anderson is a great help defender

[Mr. Body]

Eh.

[TimDunkem]

But...but...Bertans is hesitant! :cry

[bic50]

Simmons has potential just has to shot when open
simmons is already 42 yrs old. I think he is at his ceiling now but just needs to be more consistent.

[bic50]

I was pulling for Anderson last season but he looks like a lost cause. Maybe the Spurs just aren't a great fit for him.

[Hoops Czar]

Since OP is stricty referring to garbage time minutes, uhm, sure.

[sasaint]

Just watching theblast 5 minutes...I mean, those are the minites where Anderson and Simmons should be showing control and better assertivness...but Murray is already showing them how to be assertive.

Bertans has shown more assertivness in the games he played this year than Kyle whole career..

It's a shame really because Anderson is a great help defender

True

and

True.

[apalisoc_9]

I was pulling for Anderson last season but he looks like a lost cause. Maybe the Spurs just aren't a great fit for him.

Anderson is not a lost cause. He's looked amazing as a 4 and he's actually useful offensively. It's when he's playing the three..he is so useless offensively and defensively he gets exposed against fast wings.

More time at the 4 next year..

[MultiTroll]

Simmons has potential just has to shot when open
And stop the stupid turnovers.
Often he makes his dribble move, needs to pass the ball but hangs on a bit too long and the defense catches on. Should have learned by watching Good Manu vs Bad Manu by now.

[apalisoc_9]

Simmons is like 59 years old. He already peaked..He's not going tl be a different player next year. :lol

Nomrally, great players continue to improve...but Role Players usually stop growing at a certain point in their career.a

[cd98]

Who knows? Murray looked shakey in garbage time. I don't see him playing much this year unless we start tanking.

[apalisoc_9]

Who knows? Murray looked shakey in garbage time. I don't see him playing much this year unless we start tanking.

Of course he's not going to play this year..that would be suicide. He's way too eratic. :lol

[SAGirl]

Anderson is not a lost cause. He's looked amazing as a 4 and he's actually useful offensively. It's when he's playing the three..he is so useless offensively and defensively he gets exposed against fast wings.

More time at the 4 next year..
It's like Harlem says, Kyle may be better off in another team that is willing to give him minutes at that spot, he may yet salvage his career as he's still young. Pop insists Kyle is a wing so that will be that for the Spurs. If he isn't traded, he better use what time he has to work on his shooting bc no matter what he does he needs to shoot more.

For Davis, he has been a pro since he was 15 and he's currently 24, plus he's athletic and is a great 3 pt shooter... In his case, Pop insists the opposite. He's a big and he won't get to play over Lee. His time may be next season... though who knows. Pop needs to find him time. One thing is certain, if Davis doesn't get to play through the season he won't be ready to help in a playoff situation.

Simmons is a 27 year old.. At his age and currently being a rotation player, I don't think he's a prospect. He's an NBA player and will get paid in the offseason based on how he does in the playoffs.

Murray is so young with a lot of potential based on his physical profile and his aggressive mentality. He will be fun to watch develop but it's very early in his career and he has to develop.

[K...]

Kyle and Simmons were picked to be role players. Murray was picked for potential. The spurs could have picked a more athletic player over Kyle, but they saw Kyle as a useful glue guy. He's become that, just not the guy we imagined.

[Chinook]

You don't consider Manu a prospect?

Nope.

[SAGirl]

Who knows? Murray looked shakey in garbage time. I don't see him playing much this year unless we start tanking.
Well there is the factor of novelty.
I thought Simmons last season was a lot more surprising than Murray... His explosiveness was Wham!!!!! It's just he was older and one never could tell if he would fix his issues. Murray is so young that he has time be a tremendously much better player by Simmons age... we just don't know obviously.

[still.focused]

Not for nothing but Murray is trash
I know hes 19 and still has to develop but hes as pro getting paid a pro salary so the criticism is legitimate
Cory is a good defender but 3 possessions in pop took the balll outta Murrays hands because he clearly couldnt handle the pressure
And im actually higher on Bertans than Simmons
Hes so far down the depth chart they should just let him spend extended time in Austin
Anderson prolly woouldnt be in the NBA if not for the Spurs

[SAGirl]

Not for nothing but Murray is trash
I know hes 19 and still has to develop but hes as pro getting paid a pro salary so the criticism is legitimate
Cory is a good defender but 3 possessions in pop took the balll outta Murrays hands because he clearly couldnt handle the pressure
And im actually higher on Bertans than Simmons
Hes so far down the depth chart they should just let him spend extended time in Austin
Anderson prolly woouldnt be in the NBA if not for the Spurs
Murray is 20 now. He's definitely shaky young or not. He can't handle real NBA pressure, which is why I liked the fact he competed against CoJo.
Are you saying Davis is so far down the depth chart that they should send him to Austin?

[cd98]

Well there is the factor of novelty.
I thought Simmons last season was a lot more surprising than Murray... His explosiveness was Wham!!!!! It's just he was older and one never could tell if he would fix his issues. Murray is so young that he has time be a tremendously much better player by Simmons age... we just don't know obviously.

It's all a guess. Simmons has some great parts to his game, but the whole game is inconsistent. He's good enough to get minutes during close games, but he's the ultimate X factor. One game he makes insanely good plays and the next, he's a turnover machine that can't buy a basket. He's just not reliable for 20 minutes every night, but he's played Anderson out of the rotation.

Murray has some tools, but he's got no meat on his bones to take advantage of his best asset, driving to the rim. His jumper is suspect, and Joseph exposed his dribbling. At one point, Simmons had to take the ball up bc Murray couldn't handle Joseph's pressure. But I think you have to give rookies 3 years before you can pass judgment.

[bic50]

Not for nothing but Murray is trash
I know hes 19 and still has to develop but hes as pro getting paid a pro salary so the criticism is legitimate
Cory is a good defender but 3 possessions in pop took the balll outta Murrays hands because he clearly couldnt handle the pressure
And im actually higher on Bertans than Simmons
Hes so far down the depth chart they should just let him spend extended time in Austin
Anderson prolly woouldnt be in the NBA if not for the Spurs
Way too soon to write off Murray.

[MaNu4Tres]

It's all a guess. Simmons has some great parts to his game, but the whole game is inconsistent. He's good enough to get minutes during close games, but he's the ultimate X factor. One game he makes insanely good plays and the next, he's a turnover machine that can't buy a basket. He's just not reliable for 20 minutes every night, but he's played Anderson out of the rotation.

Murray has some tools, but he's got no meat on his bones to take advantage of his best asset, driving to the rim. His jumper is suspect, and Joseph exposed his dribbling. At one point, Simmons had to take the ball up bc Murray couldn't handle Joseph's pressure. But I think you have to give rookies 3 years before you can pass judgment.

Murray couldnt handle it because he was too fancy with it.

Once he understands how simply it is to handle pressure by sheer fundamentals ( instead of behind the back crossovers), he'll be fine. Its an easy fix.

[spursistan]

I need Murray to politely distance himself from Jamal Chuckford..That company doesn't bode well as far as developing sound basketball habits..

[DAF86]

Nope.

Why?

[apalisoc_9]

Why?

Probably because Manu was a prospect before Porker. They just developed him in Europe instead..But that's just too cute of a take, imo.

You're still a prospect regardless if the team had about 5 years of evaluating and developing you in Europe.

[cd98]

Murray couldnt handle it because he was too fancy with it.

Once he understands how simply it is to handle pressure by sheer fundamentals ( instead of behind the back crossovers), he'll be fine. Its an easy fix.

I also think Corey got in there and out muscled him. Murray must put on significantly more weight to handle the strength of the NBA athlete.

[DAF86]

Probably because Manu was a prospect before Porker. They just developed him in Europe instead..But that's just too cute of a take, imo.

You're still a prospect regardless if the team had about 5 years of evaluating and developing you in Europe.

Of course. You never know how a guy will adapt to the NBA. Under that reasoning Bertans shouldn't be considered a prospect either.

[GSH]

Simmons is like 59 years old. He already peaked..He's not going tl be a different player next year. :lol

Nomrally, great players continue to improve...but Role Players usually stop growing at a certain point in their career.a


Simmons is a min-contract, undrafted nobody who is earning right at 19 minutes per game on one of the top teams in the league. How many other min-contract players are getting those kinds of minutes on, say, one of the top 4 teams in their conference? Or even on teams above .500? He's better than a lot of guys who are earning 5x as much or more (Corey Brewer earning over $7M in Houston.:lol) If he doesn't improve at all, he's already way better than anyone could have expected. But he's better than he was last season. He's better than he was in SL and preseason.

No, he's not going to develop into a star. But rosters aren't packed with stars from top to bottom. Every team needs guys like Simmons. Running him down because he's not going to be a starter is kind of pointless.

[GSH]

And im actually higher on Bertans than Simmons
Hes so far down the depth chart they should just let him spend extended time in Austin


Do you even know what a depth chart is? Simmons has played the 7th most minutes this season - 8th most minutes per game. (Manu has played fewer games, but more MPG.) So whether you like it or not, he's not that far down the depth chart. And he's WAY above Bertans in minutes.

[DAF86]

Do you even know what a depth chart is? Simmons has played the 7th most minutes this season - 8th most minutes per game. (Manu has played fewer games, but more MPG.) So whether you like it or not, he's not that far down the depth chart. And he's WAY above Bertans in minutes.

I think he was talking about Bertans, tbh.

[timtonymanu]

Hoping Bertans and Murray can be rotation players next season.

[apalisoc_9]

Hoping Bertans and Murray can be rotation players next season.

Bertans, Maybe...Murry most likely not.

Murray's role is a tough role to cover for most 20-23 year olds..You won't find that many under 23 pgs that contribute positively.

Bertans can be a role spacer as early as next year...heck even this year. He's probably going to play the same amount of minutes simmons is getting right now or at worse Anderson

[GSH]

I think he was talking about Bertans, tbh.


Ah. Okay. Actually, Bertans in Austin might not be such a bad idea - especially if he's not going to get any real minutes. It sure looks like his confidence has taken a hit, and that's never good for a shooter. Actually, I wish the Spurs would give him some time at the 3, which is where we assumed he was meant to be.

[SAGirl]

Simmons is a min-contract, undrafted nobody who is earning right at 19 minutes per game on one of the top teams in the league. How many other min-contract players are getting those kinds of minutes on, say, one of the top 4 teams in their conference? Or even on teams above .500? He's better than a lot of guys who are earning 5x as much or more (Corey Brewer earning over $7M in Houston.:lol) If he doesn't improve at all, he's already way better than anyone could have expected. But he's better than he was last season. He's better than he was in SL and preseason.

No, he's not going to develop into a star. But rosters aren't packed with stars from top to bottom. Every team needs guys like Simmons. Running him down because he's not going to be a starter is kind of pointless.
I get the appreciation for the star... those guys are amazing!! But roleplayers are important to the team and contribute as well, even with their flaws and its fine to root for those guys too.

Simmons has indeed improved a lot. More than I thought and though he may taper off, he could still get better with some confidence shooting for example. We just don't know at what point he will have peaked bc he's older. I won't venture there. He has surprised me already and that's why I keep repeating his value will show in the postseason. I think he will come balling, frankly I am not to worried about him bc he's not dependent on the jumpshots as much, and yet he can't pass them up when open. We shall see. I wish him the best and I wasnt previously so hot about him last season... though I have never been a hater. (Guys just like to paint me in that spot bc they like to troll I guess and some are starving for attention I think). I don't think he will flame out.

[Chinook]

Why?

Manu was like Splitter when he came over. Bertans, despite having been drafted five-and-a-half years ago, is still very much a prospect.

Of course, I admit the distinction isn't all that easy to define. Like is Dedmon a prospect? I'm not sure.

[still.focused]

Murray is 20 now. He's definitely shaky young or not. He can't handle real NBA pressure, which is why I liked the fact he competed against CoJo.
Are you saying Davis is so far down the depth chart that they should send him to Austin?

Cojo almost ruined that lil boys life last night lol
Yes Davis is spending too much time on the bench in SA for my liking
His minutes are super sketchy & almost Bonner-like
When he gets in the game he seems competent but also uncomfortable
Id think finding his shots and getting comfortable with where theyll come from are big for a shooter
Let him go burn down the D League just for the reps even if it leaves SanAn thin



Way too soon to write off Murray.

Definitely not writing him off
I love the pick and the idea of he can become over time
Im just not as willing to give him a pass for just being young
He left school to be a pro & im inclined to treat him more like one
Hes got a hell of a lot to improve on
Luckily hes got the tools, from what I hear hes got the drive and a shitload of resources in SanAn to get it done
And ill be 1st in line to cheer him on when he does

[CGD]

Really excited about the future with these guys.

With respect to Davis, I've been most surprised by the fact that he's not a defensive pushover. I also think the comparisons to Bonner aren't fair to him. I don't expect him to be a star or anything but certainly a rotation big or even a starter to the extent the Spurs go back to pace and space in the next iteration of this team.

2019-2020 Spurs:

Murray - young wing - Kawhi - Dominant post player - Bertans

[silverblackfan]

The real issue here that all four players are cheap and improving. I like it when Pop plays KA and JS at the same time. You can tell the two know how to play with each other well after all the previous D-league time. The bench is looking better every day.

[DJR210]

Hoping that Murray develops quickly enough to have him play alongside Kawhi when he enters his prime

[wildbill2u]

Murray tries too hard to be a one on one star. Maybe it's just that he wants to impress or live up to the hype that he has so much potential--or maybe he's just a kid who won't pass the ball and let the game come to him. Too early and too few minutes to tell if he can adapt his mental faculties to the NBA game where most all the players have similar physical abilities, but most importantly know how to play the game.

[SAGirl]

Murray tries too hard to be a one on one star. Maybe it's just that he wants to impress or live up to the hype that he has so much potential--or maybe he's just a kid who won't pass the ball and let the game come to him. Too early and too few minutes to tell if he can adapt his mental faculties to the NBA game where most all the players have similar physical abilities, but most importantly know how to play the game.
It's in his nature to play like that. On the one hand, I think it's great for him to have an aggressive mentality, on the other, he's not that effective yet at what he does that he can play like that in the NBA and be successful.

He has played differently with the starters lately. He's been off the ball more and doesn't attempt so much aggressive kamikaze stuff. His steady play against Portland motivated Pop to release Nico. He's also flashed defensive potential plenty.

However, for garbage time I think if you are Pop you want to develop the Kamikaze a bit... maybe I need to rename him from Dijon (a nickname someone else came up with on draft day from the pronunciation of his name.. to kamikaze, but we need to see kamikaze more when Pop can spare him.)... anyways Kamikaze needs to continue to develop that stuff which seems reckless/shaky/and like a carcrash waiting to happen bc he can turn it into a magnificent stunt when he perfects his technique...

I hope you like metaphors. :lol He's that young that the kamikaze can maybe turn into the something magnificent at some future point (or not... but he's young and has time to learn from Pop and his teammates).
:flag:

[dabom]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/031/397/dd0.gif

[dbestpro]

I had hope for Anderson, but am a fan no more. I cringe everytime he gets the ball wide open at the three point line. He just won't shoot, and until he does, and makes some, he is an anchor to the offense.

[gospursgojas]

The best we can hope out of Simmons is consistency.
Anderson is not an NBA player.

Bertans is a big who can shoot. Those fit in so well in today's NBA.
Murray has potential but is a ball hog.

IMHO

[still.focused]

Really excited about the future with these guys.

With respect to Davis, I've been most surprised by the fact that he's not a defensive pushover. I also think the comparisons to Bonner aren't fair to him. I don't expect him to be a star or anything but certainly a rotation big or even a starter to the extent the Spurs go back to pace and space in the next iteration of this team.

2019-2020 Spurs:

Murray - young wing - Kawhi - Dominant post player - Bertans

When I said his min are sketchy & Bonner-like i dont mean his actual play
Im talking about the low & inconsistent number of minutes hes given
I like the way he plays when he gets the mins tho
As said before im higher on him than Simmons and tbqh Murray as well

[spursistan]

817941616958861314

Doesn't take a lot for a talented player to show what he got..

[NASpurs]

817941616958861314

Doesn't take a lot for a talented player to show what he got..

http://i.imgur.com/tEzrdMe.jpg

[Spurtacular]

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/2/2f/Breaking-bad-todd-matt-damon.png/revision/latest?cb=20130917063807

[still.focused]

http://i.imgur.com/tEzrdMe.jpg

He looks like a post pubescent Scott Farkus from A Christmas Story

[spurraider21]

http://i.imgur.com/tEzrdMe.jpg
:lmao