Giannis should be an MVP candidate instead of Harden

[Clipper Nation]

816351395687366657

Already on an all-time great career trajectory, and he's doing it without relying on food stamps from the refs like Harden does. He also plays defense, unlike Harden.

The MVP discussion should be Westbrook vs. Giannis, not Westbrook vs. Harden.

[140]

The Bucks have to win more games for that to happen but yeah Giannis has been at least a borderline top 5 player this season tbh (fuck you cuban)

[StrengthAndHonor]

I dont like Harden and yes, credit goes to D'Antoni and yes Giannis is having an incredible stretch, but his name should not be in the MVP conversation yet.

[Fabbs]

Players drafted before him in 2013 :wow

[TDMVPDPOY]

A fluke season doesnt mean u deserve mvp, just like harden who had to prove his peak year at the rockets wasnt a fluke, now his backing it up in antonis system ....

mvp is still wide open man.... if kawhi and the spurs can win the remaining games against those teams with players in contention for mvp, he could steal it...he does have a winning record against them besides 1loss each to rockets and clippers...but his won most of his h2h statement games

[lefty]

He's black tbh

[apalisoc_9]

I love the op, but Harden is argubly a top 5 player in the league with a winning record and only a 1 game behind San Antonio in the West. :lol

[apalisoc_9]

Also those stats are so nitpicked...:lol

[Arcadian]

Not if his team is a 6 seed. The MVP usually goes to the best player on a top 3 team in its conference.

It's between Kawhi, Lebron, and Harden.

[Double-Up]

Not if his team is a 6 seed. The MVP usually goes to the best player on a top 3 team in its conference.

It's between Kawhi, Lebron, and Harden.

Not if Westbrook averages a triple double for the season.

[apalisoc_9]

Not if Westbrook averages a triple double for the season.

And he will..

Which is crazy because he really doesn't need to do much to get it. Sure, for the casual it looks hard but the fact of the matter is that..Westbtrook is averaging 8. something uncontested defensive rebounds a game ( I dont know the the other numbers, but that has got to be top 3 in the league if not the highest number)..In other words, his Bigs are giving him all the rebounds.

That is much easier to do than Finish top 3 in the west or in Lebron Case the top seed in the east.

I suspect the triple double phenomenan will die out next year when mainstream media realizes where those rebounds usually come from

[apalisoc_9]

A really impressive feat, is when bigs do it or possibly wings.

Because In general, when Guards are looking for the uncontested defensive rebounds...It leaves the most dangerous creator without a defender..

Part of the reason why OKC defense is terrible.

[313]

:lol no

[Arcadian]

Not if Westbrook averages a triple double for the season.

Voters are gonna look at the stats and think, "Harden almost averaged a trip-dub, and he won more games. Advantage Harden."

[Kawhitstorm]

Giannis needs to stop getting shat on by the likes Harrison Barnes, Wiggins & Otto Porter before he's an MVP candidate especially when his team doesn't have a better record than Kemba's Hornets.

[spursistan]

Nope..Harden-led team is only 2 games in loss column out of second seed in the West..

I love Giannis, but his (high) ceiling is severely limited if he doesn't develop an outside shot...he would be easy to game-plan for in the playoffs without it when the tempo slows down..

[Clipper Nation]

816720881619791873

:wow :worthy:

[Clipper Nation]

Not if his team is a 6 seed. The MVP usually goes to the best player on a top 3 team in its conference.

It's between Kawhi, Lebron, and Harden.
The Bucks' second-best player (Khris Middleton) hasn't played all season. Kidd is a shit coach. They're overpaying Miles Plumlee and Greg Monroe to warm the bench. The fact that they're even a 6 seed is a testament to Giannis' greatness.

[TimDunkem]

Voters are gonna look at the stats and think, "Harden almost averaged a trip-dub, and he won more games. Advantage Harden."

You overestimate the average NBA fan. All they care about is stats. The higher the better for them.

[140]

816720881619791873

:wow :worthy:
:wow

[DAF86]

I love the op, but Harden is argubly a top 5 player in the league with a winning record and only a 1 game behind San Antonio in the West. :lol

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

[Arcadian]

You overestimate the average NBA fan. All they care about is stats. The higher the better for them.

MVP voters are average NBA fans??

[TDMVPDPOY]

awarding westbrick mvp for posting up triple double avgs = empty stats

[spurraider21]

lol "instead of"

how about they can both me mvp candidates

[313]

816720881619791873

:wow :worthy:1 game over 500 in the Leastern conference

[Kawhitstorm]

Hit a game winner to add fuel to the fire.:lol

[djohn2oo8]

Hit a game winner to add fuel to the fire.:lol
fuel to what fire?

[Spurs9]

Almost made a thread after that shot tbh, unreal. Does Antetokounmpo have the biggest upside in the league? I think so tbh, this dude is ridiculous with his game.

[Clipper Nation]

MVGiannis with the CLUTCH defensive play and game-winner! :wow :worthy:

[djohn2oo8]

Didn't take CN long to piss all over himself...

[Clipper Nation]

The future heir to King James' throne, delivering the win for his team:

816841662450176000

MVGiannis

[313]

The future heir to King James' throne, delivering the win for his team:

816841662450176000

MVGiannisId trade Kiwi for him that's for sure :tu

[lefty]

Didn't take CN long to piss all over himself...
:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

Id trade Kiwi for him that's for sure :tu

....just like you would have traded him for Paul George.:sleep

[Gummi Clutch]

I don't like the Lebron comparisons. I think he will amount to what KD wasn't able to. That space he created was amazing on that shot,this guy is special.

Today's NBA :lol , all this fucking talent :lol

[100%duncan]

:lol not even top 3 in thr shitty Least. Im probably one of harden's biggest haters but if the season ended today, he wins mvp

[Ball Buster]

interesting to see the man crush developing for the newest dominating athletic big

[140]

He leads the Bucks in ppg, rpg, apg, bpg and spg :wow


btw, Jabari doesn't even average 6 rebs per game, gotta step up tbh...

[ambchang]

So the three MVP candidates are a flopper, a stat padder and some guy who can't shoot. Two of which are on teams that suck.
:lol today's NBA.

[Clipper Nation]

Flop So Harden got completely outclassed by Alphabrook tonight, but got carried by the refs and his far superior supporting cast to the win anyway. Time to take him out of the MVP discussion. It's between Russ and Giannis.

[djohn2oo8]

Flop So Harden got completely outclassed by Alphabrook tonight, but got carried by the refs and his far superior supporting cast to the win anyway. Time to take him out of the MVP discussion. It's between Russ and Giannis.

Harden is winning games without a starting center who can rebound. Westbrook got how many of his teammates involved tonight?

:lol clit nation

[Clipper Nation]

Houston has seven players with a positive BPM this season. That includes Harden, the early Sixth Man of the Year favorite Eric Gordon, and lockdown defenders in Patrick Beverley, Trevor Ariza, and pre-leg-injury Clint Capela.

OKC has only two players with a positive BPM this season: Westbrook, and Steven Adams. Westbrook is +14.2. Adams is +1.1.

It's not even a contest - Houston is way more stacked than OKC.

:lol dumbjohn

[djohn2oo8]

Houston has seven players with a positive BPM this season. That includes Harden, the early Sixth Man of the Year favorite Eric Gordon, and lockdown defenders in Patrick Beverley, Trevor Ariza, and pre-leg-injury Clint Capela.

OKC has only two players with a positive BPM this season: Westbrook, and Steven Adams. Westbrook is +14.2. Adams is +1.1.

It's not even a contest - Houston is way more stacked than OKC.

:lol dumbjohn

Yet OKC out rebounded Houston tonight nearly by 10 rebounds. Rebounds kept OKC in the game. You do know constantly giving other teams second chance points and getting owned in the paint makes it harder to win? :lol

[djohn2oo8]

Winning without a shot blocking and rebounding presence without Capela.

:tu Harden.

[Clipper Nation]

With Westbrook on the bench, the Thunder are -128 in net points and -11.6 in net points per 100 possessions:

http://www.82games.com/1617/16OKC1.HTM#onoff

With Harden on the bench, the Rockets are +14 in net points and +1.7 in net points per 100 possessions:

http://www.82games.com/1617/16HOU4.HTM#onoff

Again, Harden clearly has way more help than Westbrook.

[Clipper Nation]

Winning without a shot blocking and rebounding presence without Capela.

:tu Harden.

Winning with less positive-impact players than Philly or Brooklyn have.

:tu Westbrook.

[djohn2oo8]

Westbrook had Durant AND Harden. And did what with that?

[djohn2oo8]

Winning with less positive-impact players than Philly or Brooklyn have.

:tu Westbrook.

OKC had the 3rd easiest schedule so far. Thats about to change.

[Clipper Nation]

Westbrook had Durant AND Harden. And did what with that?

Dragged those two choke artists to the Finals, kicking and screaming.

[djohn2oo8]

Dragged those two choke artists to the Finals, kicking and screaming.

Might want to go back and look at that Spurs series where Harden took over in the 4th quarters and Westbrook shot 37% that series.

[Clipper Nation]

Might want to go back and look at that Spurs series where Harden took over in the 4th quarters and Westbrook shot 37% that series.

Might want to go back and look at the 2012 Finals where Flop So Harden disappeared for all but one game of the series.

[djohn2oo8]

Might want to go back and look at the 2012 Finals where Flop So Harden disappeared for all but one game of the series.

That does nothing to refute that Westbrook played horrible in that series right before getting to.the finals. And thus did not drag Harden and Durant there.

[Gummi Clutch]

lol clitoras asian muddling his way through life

[DMC]

Greek Freak is great, but there's something to be said for team record. We all know Harden will fold under pressure, but he gets the nod over someone with a meh record.

[Seventyniner]

816841662450176000

In real time I thought it was a travel. Not that they would call it anyway. Upon rewatching it, though, it was just one long step, a legal jump stop that went 4 feet caue Giannis's legs are just that long.

I would have loved to see a spin counter move though.

[Clipper Nation]

In real time I thought it was a travel. Not that they would call it anyway. Upon rewatching it, though, it was just one long step, a legal jump stop that went 4 feet caue Giannis's legs are just that long.

I would have loved to see a spin counter move though.
In the SI cover story about Giannis, they mentioned how opposing coaches swear he travels all the time until they go back and watch the tape and see how ridiculous his stride is.

[DMC]

In real time I thought it was a travel. Not that they would call it anyway. Upon rewatching it, though, it was just one long step, a legal jump stop that went 4 feet caue Giannis's legs are just that long.

I would have loved to see a spin counter move though.

He got like 4 feet of separation on that step back, damn near a backcourt lol. His knees won't last doing that shit.

[Seventyniner]

In the SI cover story about Giannis, they mentioned how opposing coaches swear he travels all the time until they go back and watch the tape and see how ridiculous his stride is.

Reminds me of Manu's Euro step. It looks like a travel but according to the letter of the rule it isn't.

[Gummi Clutch]

Houston has seven players with a positive BPM this season. That includes Harden, the early Sixth Man of the Year favorite Eric Gordon, and lockdown defenders in Patrick Beverley, Trevor Ariza, and pre-leg-injury Clint Capela.

OKC has only two players with a positive BPM this season: Westbrook, and Steven Adams. Westbrook is +14.2. Adams is +1.1.

It's not even a contest - Houston is way more stacked than OKC.

:lol dumbjohn
You are fucking stupid. Who knew that freezing teammates out would lead them to play worse? You are using what Harden is doing (making his teammates better) against him.

Back when Dwight went out, he took them to 2nd seed...and WB couldn't even get them to make the playoffs when Durant was out...and that's when Ibaka was on the team.

[140]

That block on Melo :wow

[140]

:lol damn, he fucked it up...

[Kawhitstorm]

Bucks half-court offense.:lmao

[StrengthAndHonor]

Giannis Chokeantekoumpo:lol

[100%duncan]

Got his shit pushed in by porzinGod and a worse version of Kawhi Leonard :lol

[Spurtacular]

:lmao

Player fan thread.

[Spurtacular]

We saw AD with more "historical" PER stats a season or two ago. Anyone popping would about him right? The player fan OP was though.

[Clipper Nation]

Kidd is a fucking moron. The Bucks win that game easily if they don't freeze out Jabari (who had the hot hand) and don't play '90s-style heroball in the 4th. This Milwaukee team needs a real coach who has an actual halfcourt offense - not only for Giannis, Parker and Middleton's development, but also to make deep playoff runs with all that talent.

[DPG21920]

Kidd is a fucking moron. The Bucks win that game easily if they don't freeze out Jabari (who had the hot hand) and don't play '90s-style heroball in the 4th. This Milwaukee team needs a real coach who has an actual halfcourt offense - not only for Giannis, Parker and Middleton's development, but also to make deep playoff runs with all that talent.

If you truly have that much talent, I'm sorry, a coach isn't the difference in being a a playoff team in the East or making deep runs.

[Splits]

817571361006776321

[djohn2oo8]

817571361006776321
:lol

[Seventyniner]

817571361006776321

Hubie Brown: "Oh no."

[djohn2oo8]

CN out here takin L's like Meek Mill.

[Clipper Nation]

CN out here takin L's like Meek Mill.
Nice 0-8 shooting night from three by James Frauden against the shitty Magic last night. Thankfully for him, his supporting cast carried him to the win - a luxury Westbrook doesn't have.

[djohn2oo8]

Nice 0-8 shooting night from three by James Frauden against the shitty Magic last night. Thankfully for him, his supporting cast carried him to the win - a luxury Westbrook doesn't have.

I don't think you get to use shooting as an argument with you ignore Westbrook having plenty of worse shooting % games, you kunt.

[Gummi Clutch]

I don't think you get to use shooting as an argument with you ignore Westbrook having plenty of worse shooting % games, you kunt.
"better team" when nobody predicted them to be in the playoff picture :lol

:Oledipo and Adams were supposed to be better than anything on yalls roster. Freezing them out is of course gonna make them play worse

[djohn2oo8]

"better team" when nobody predicted them to be in the playoff picture :lol

:Oledipo and Adams were supposed to be better than anything on yalls roster. Freezing them out is of course gonna make them play worse

This. The only reason that last game was close was because Kanter was wrecking our bench.

[Clipper Nation]

"better team" when nobody predicted them to be in the playoff picture :lol
FiveThirtyEight had both teams firmly in the playoff picture in preseason:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-nba-picks/

CBS projected that OKC would win around 45 games and Houston would win 43:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2016-17-nba-expert-predictions-each-teams-win-total-can-warriors-top-73/

But who gives a shit about preseason predictions anymore in January? What matters is what's actually happening on the court every night, not what the experts assumed would happen on paper.

The reality on the court is that after Westbrook and Steven Adams, OKC's roster is a dumpster fire. Draft bust Victor Oladipo and Andre Roberson - a terrible offensive player and even worse free throw shooter - are second and third in minutes per game on that roster respectively :lol In fairness, Roberson is a great defender, but it's the same issue the Clippers have with Mbah a Moute. Defense alone just isn't enough to make up for basically playing 4-on-5 on the other end of the court.

In contrast, Houston has a bunch of contributors like Eric Gordon, Ryan Anderson, Trevor Ariza and Patrick Beverley. These are all guys who have made names for themselves before this season, so it's not like Frauden is turning scrubs into stars this year.

It's blindingly obvious from both stats and the eye test that Frauden has a better supporting cast than Westbrook, regardless of what people expected before the season.

[spursistan]

Barely lost to the Wizards without him..Yeah, let's stop acting like he is having Lebron/Russ/Harden-type of impact on teammates..Even without Middleton, the Bucks have talent and much better roster than Pelicans/Thunder etc..

[The Third Man]

Show us on the doll where James Harden hurt you, CN.

[spursistan]

way premature ejac by OP..

20-23 in the East and out of playoffs :lmao

[apalisoc_9]

way premature ejac by OP..

20-23 in the East and out of playoffs :lmao

He's super overrated. I have no ide how he managed to get that voted in. Millsap is having his best season as Hawk. :lol

[100%duncan]

He's super overrated. I have no ide how he managed to get that voted in. Millsap is having his best season as Hawk. :lol

BR just put the latest "superstar" rankings yesterday, giannis was 5, kawhi was 7 lol. and lebron was only 3 smh

[Kawhitstorm]

way premature ejac by OP..

20-23 in the East and out of playoffs :lmao

He hasn't been the same since he hit the game winner against the Knicks at MSG; Jabari Parker is now in the doghouse for speaking out about it.:lol

[Clipper Nation]

Giannis dropping 31 and getting the win against Frauden :tu

:lol Haters

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol team struggling to stay above .500 and this clown is mvp candidate? lol

[100%duncan]

Giannis dropping 31 and getting the win against Frauden :tu

:lol Haters

Are you gonna bump this every 1 game out of 5 tbh?

[UZER]

lol team struggling to stay above .500 and this clown is mvp candidate? lol

In the east too.

[unleashbaynes]

MVPs lead their teams to 50+ wins.

[spursistan]

Losing to an Embiidless' Sixers on a B2B at home :lol...Yeah, MVP material..

[Kawhitstorm]

Losing to an Embiidless' Sixers on a B2B at home :lol...Yeah, MVP material..

Got locked up by a minimum salary player:lmao

[SpursIndonesia]

Got locked up by a minimum salary player:lmao

Robert Covington, right ? This guy (Giannis) is only seeking a pretext for a move to the sunny west coast team IMHO, it must be much better treated as a king in LA than in the sub zero Milwaukee.

[100%duncan]

inb4 cn bumps this after 5 games :lol

[Clipper Nation]

Robert Covington, right ? This guy (Giannis) is only seeking a pretext for a move to the sunny west coast team IMHO, it must be much better treated as a king in LA than in the sub zero Milwaukee.
The Greek Clipper Freak :hungry:

[spurraider21]

The Greek Clipper Freak :hungry:
:lol thinking cock isn't gonna give choke the max

[DAF86]

Giannis will never learn to shoot and his ceiling would be limited by it. Kirilenko looked like he was going to be something special at some point too.

[lefty]

Why do you think he will never learn to shoot? HE seems to have a good work ethic

That's what people said about Lebron because they thought his athleticism is enough but Lebron improved his outside shooting

And :lol at people who thought AK47 was going to be a special player; that guy looked like a scrub from day 1

[DAF86]

Why do you think he will never learn to shoot? HE seems to have a good work ethic

That's what people said about Lebron because they thought his athleticism is enough but Lebron improved his outside shooting

And :lol at people who thought AK47 was going to be a special player; that guy looked like a scrub from day 1

Because his shot looks awful, slow as fuck and one shot is completely different from the other. Lebron's shot never looked so bad. Giannis is in his, what, 3rd or 4th season and he has shown marginal to no improvement on his shot, He might improve it a bit, but he will never develop it to the point he needs to develop it for a superstar playmaker.

[lefty]

Because his shot looks awful, slow as fuck and one shot is completely different from the other. Lebron's shot never looked so bad. Giannis is in his, what, 3rd or 4th season and he has shown marginal to no improvement on his shot, He might improve it a bit, but he will never develop it to the point he needs to develop it for a superstar playmaker.
:lol didn't know he was in his 3rd or 4th season tbh

[Kawhitstorm]

Giannis will never learn to shoot and his ceiling would be limited by it. Kirilenko looked like he was going to be something special at some point too.

AK47 was a soft beta like Batum while Giannis is an ultra aggressive alpha like WestBrick.

Giannis is already better than 22 yr old Garnett: http://bkref.com/tiny/KWA89

[DAF86]

AK47 was a soft beta like Batum while Giannis is an ultra aggressive alpha like WestBrick.

Giannis is already better than 22 yr old Garnett: http://bkref.com/tiny/KWA89

No, he isn't.

[Kawhitstorm]

No, he isn't.

Yes, he is.:sleep

[DAF86]

Yes, he is.:sleep

Giannis isn't the defensive anchor that Garnett was. Let the greek freak get his team over .500, in one of the worst conference of all time, before calling him better than a top 50 player of all time, tbh.

[Kawhitstorm]

Giannis isn't the defensive anchor that Garnett was. Let the greek freak get his team over .500, in one of the worst conference of all time, before calling him better than a top 50 player of all time, tbh.

Dummy, I said 22 yr old Garnett who only made the All-NBA 3rd team & was Paul Millsap status at that point of his career. (Garnett was a better defender but Giannis is a better playmaker/scorer so it evens out)

The only player in NBA history to be as good a rebounder/playmaker/shot-blocker/thief as Giannis has been this season is Garnett during his MVP season: http://bkref.com/tiny/vhbE3

The next closest player is PEAK Admiral: http://bkref.com/tiny/oyTWi

Once his body develops, he's going to be a 4 like Anthony Davis so his shooting won't be that much of an issue b/c he will be blowing past defenders.

[spurraider21]

No, he isn't.


Yes, he is.:sleeplol faggots

[DAF86]

lol faggots

Stay on your own retarded discussions with DMC, you faggot :lol

[DAF86]

Dummy, I said 22 yr old Garnett who only made the All-NBA 3rd team & was Paul Millsap status at that point of his career. (Garnett was a better defender but Giannis is a better playmaker/scorer so it evens out)

The only player in NBA history to be as good a rebounder/playmaker/shot-blocker/thief as Giannis has been this season is Garnett during his MVP season: http://bkref.com/tiny/vhbE3

The next closest player is PEAK Admiral: http://bkref.com/tiny/oyTWi

Once his body develops, he's going to be a 4 like Anthony Davis so his shooting won't be that much of an issue b/c he will be blowing past defenders.

In today's NBA the 4 needs to shoot, tbh. And no, he won't be blowing past defenders, if defenders give him a 5 foot cushion 'cause he can't shot, tbh. He might put good numbers in the regular season, but in the playoffs when defenses stiffen up he will need a jumpshot to open up things for him.

[Kawhitstorm]

In today's NBA the 4 needs to shoot, tbh. And no, he won't be blowing past defenders, if defenders give him a 5 foot cushion 'cause he can't shot, tbh. He might put good numbers in the regular season, but in the playoffs when defenses stiffen up he will need a jumpshot to open up things for him.

Rondo didn't have a problem getting to the rim when he had turbo speed & actually dominated in the postseason.:wakeup

[DAF86]

Rondo didn't have a problem getting to the rim when he had turbo speed & actually dominated in the postseason.:wakeup

Rondo? Are you really bringing up Rondo to try and help Giannis case? :lol

[Kawhitstorm]

Rondo? Are you really bringing up Rondo to try and help Giannis case? :lol

Rondo got injured when he was entering his prime & the Big 3 were getting phased out otherwise he would have been like John Wall.

He was the 2nd best player in the East during the 2012 playoffs where the Celtics almost upset the Heat even w/ Ray Allen playing like 2013 Turnobili: http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2012-nba-eastern-conference-finals-celtics-vs-heat.html

vgjTumIO2Uw

He also gave MVP Rose the business during that season:

5mPR1_3USS0

The best player on the Celtics when they beat the Cavs in 2010 was also Rondo: http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2010-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-celtics-vs-cavaliers.html

QfnSuVCoazo

Playoffs Rondo was REAL:

JmIhIyH1yuU

dR2wdc1XOGc

[DAF86]

So Giannis ceiling is winning a championship as the 4th or 5th best player of his team, have a couple of stat padding seasons and be a cancer for the rest of his career. Gotcha. :lol