Kawhi Leonard Gets Away With More Double Dribbles Than Anyone In League History

[Spurtacular]

I've been noticing this for a long time now. If there's a loose ball, he'll go gather it on a dribble or two and then he'll clutch the ball. Then he'll start an entirely new dribble as if he hadn't already dribble. And the refs let him get away with it all the time. Once, I saw a ref call it; and he was pissed. He either doesn't know the rule, or he thinks it's just something one should not be called on.

[UZER]

:lol I've noticed that as well. He had a bad one tonight. He doed it often on breaks when he steals the ball.

[apalisoc_9]

Leonard is a two time DPOY..He's top 10 in the defensive end in terms of getting away with calls after a defensive play.

Which is crazy because at his level, he should be getting away with all sorts of Murder.

Guys like Draymond, Allen etc get more benefit of the doubt.

At leonards level, he shouldnt bem even be called for touch foulsm

[bic50]

Is this a complaint?

[100%duncan]

Bad habit I guess

[99 Problems]

Dedmon dunking is the guy who gets very little leeway with the refs unfortunately.

[Spurtacular]

Leonard is a two time DPOY..He's top 10 in the defensive end in terms of getting away with calls after a defensive play.

Which is crazy because at his level, he should be getting away with all sorts of Murder.

Guys like Draymond, Allen etc get more benefit of the doubt.

At leonards level, he shouldnt bem even be called for touch foulsm

Player fan / Safe space poster weighing in. :lol

[YGWHI]

Is this a complaint?

Well, you never know with these guys...It seems like they think this "refs let him get away with it all the time" is something bad.

I can hear them...'why the hell refs don't call it? make Kawhi to pay for IT'

Finally a Spurs player has the benefit of refs in some kind of play and then suddenly they're complaining about...

Only Spurs fans. Only on ST.

[DMC]

Refs allow players to gain control of the ball before starting their dribble. Just because the ball hits the floor after hitting his hand doesn't mean it's a controlled dribble. However Tony carries the ball any time he crosses over. His hand goes beneath the ball. In fact, a carry could be called any time the ball suddenly moves parallel to the ground at the top of the dribble, but then every decent PG in the league would be called on every trip down.

[Chews]

lmfao I've noticed it before. It appears to me to be a controlled dribble, I think it's just one of those things that they don't want to call because it's so minute. Hopefully it doesn't fuck us over in a critical moment.

[dabom]

He has some of the most fundamental coaching staff in the world. I rarely if ever see him double dribble.

[100%duncan]

Refs allow players to gain control of the ball before starting their dribble. Just because the ball hits the floor after hitting his hand doesn't mean it's a controlled dribble. However Tony carries the ball any time he crosses over. His hand goes beneath the ball. In fact, a carry could be called any time the ball suddenly moves parallel to the ground at the top of the dribble, but then every decent PG in the league would be called on every trip down.
Tbh :lol from parker and nash before to kyrie and tons of pgs today

[DMC]

lmfao I've noticed it before. It appears to me to be a controlled dribble, I think it's just one of those things that they don't want to call because it's so minute. Hopefully it doesn't fuck us over in a critical moment.

I just hope we have a critical moment.

[100%duncan]

I just hope we have a critical moment.

Bend over Ill give ya a critical moment

[Spurtacular]

He has some of the most fundamental coaching staff in the world. I rarely if ever see him double dribble.

Player fan / safe space poster's alt weighing in. :lol

[DMC]

Bend over Ill give ya a critical moment

You'll fall in love again. Can't have it.

[OrEmuN]

Not as much as Curry getting away with carrying the ball

[Kawhitstorm]

I've been noticing this for a long time now. If there's a loose ball, he'll go gather it on a dribble or two and then he'll clutch the ball. Then he'll start an entirely new dribble as if he hadn't already dribble. And the refs let him get away with it all the time. Once, I saw a ref call it; and he was pissed. He either doesn't know the rule, or he thinks it's just something one should not be called on.

Possession doesn't start until a player has COMPLETE control of the ball, that's why the shot-clock doesn't reset on loose balls where a defender momentarily gains possession of the ball but loses it.

[Leetonidas]

Leonard is my favorite player but it's obvious he is now receiving preferential ref treatment tbh...

[cd021]

Leonard is my favorite player but it's obvious he is now receiving preferential ref treatment tbh...

As do star players, I'd rather it manifest itself at the FT line. he's averaging about 7 a game. If can be an top 10 player in terms of getting to the line during his prime, that would be very helpful.

[GSH]

It's becoming more and more prevalent in the NBA, and the refs just aren't calling it. Not disputing that Kawhi does it. But you just watch the Spurs more, and more closely. Start looking for it and you'll see it everywhere.

And, yes, it's not different than carrying. They all do it, but it's getting more exaggerated. The league has clearly made a choice not to call carrying anymore. Because under the rules we all learned, they would have to call it on every single possession. Eventually they would quit, but that would take a LOT of the highlight reels out of the game. And that would cost ratings.

Bottom line, it's all about the ratings. I will say that Kawhi could survive without the double dribble a lot better than 100% of the PG's could survive without carrying. A few years back, I posed some pictures of Curry, and how incredibly far his hand gets under the ball. Without that, he would still be a great shooter. But a lot of the magic he does moving the ball just wouldn't be possible. The league likes what he does, because it makes money. They aren't going to change how they call games. Period. No sense bitching about it.

[lefty20]

It's merely a crab dribble, tbh.

[urunobili]

He also tends to walk before dunking on wide open dunks

[Horse]

His big hands just create an illusion

[dabom]

His big hands just create an illusion

The guy never fully touches the basketball with his hands. People watching from TV can be tricked.

[sasaint]

:lol I've noticed that as well. He had a bad one tonight. He doed it often on breaks when he steals the ball.

I haven't noticed as many of those as I have his traveling when he is going in for a dunk after a breakaway - a steal or a long pass from a teammate.

[barbacoataco]

I wish the NBA actually respected the rules of basketball and called things like traveling, 3 seconds, moving screens, and double dribbling. I prefer how they officiate in the Olympics.

In the NFl and MLB they are trying to officiate by the rules. The ability of a team to not get penalties is part of the game in the NFL. Why is the NBA more of a playground type game?

[sasaint]

Tbh :lol from parker and nash before to kyrie and tons of pgs today

Why limit it to PGs?

[Kawhitstorm]

He also tends to walk before dunking on wide open dunks

Nobody is calling a travel for an extra step on a breakaway dunk since the player isn't really gaining an advantage w/ no defender in sight.

Corey Brewer basically takes 5 steps when he's leaking out or on a breakaway after a steal.:lol

hfdrP7QX9PM

[barbacoataco]

The rules should be the rules.

[barbacoataco]

The problem is that when you don't follow the rules, you give the officials huge leeway to influence games. At any moment you can call any number of things that aren't usually called.

It's the same thing as giving police discretion when to apply laws. That gives them the option of applying laws to people they don't like and to those they do.

The only way to have s fair game is to apply the rules consistently and "by the book." The more interpretation you give to the officials the more corruption creeps in.

[barbacoataco]

I also don't like the NBA thing of giving star players completely different treatment, as if they have their own set of rules. The best players already have an advantage. Why give them more?

[UZER]

It's becoming more and more prevalent in the NBA, and the refs just aren't calling it. Not disputing that Kawhi does it. But you just watch the Spurs more, and more closely. Start looking for it and you'll see it everywhere.

And, yes, it's not different than carrying. They all do it, but it's getting more exaggerated. The league has clearly made a choice not to call carrying anymore. Because under the rules we all learned, they would have to call it on every single possession. Eventually they would quit, but that would take a LOT of the highlight reels out of the game. And that would cost ratings.

Bottom line, it's all about the ratings. I will say that Kawhi could survive without the double dribble a lot better than 100% of the PG's could survive without carrying. A few years back, I posed some pictures of Curry, and how incredibly far his hand gets under the ball. Without that, he would still be a great shooter. But a lot of the magic he does moving the ball just wouldn't be possible. The league likes what he does, because it makes money. They aren't going to change how they call games. Period. No sense bitching about it.



Like the massive travels when players catch a pass on the permiter now. Guys take 4 steps now before coming to a stop.

It's almost needs a market correction where they reset the basic fundamental calls. But at this point, that cats or of the bag and I'd be to difficult for players to adjust. They'd have to start at the youth level up through college to change the cultural again. Never gonna happen but I wish it would.

It's so hard to guard people nowadays with the carries players get away with.

[GSH]

The guy never fully touches the basketball with his hands. People watching from TV can be tricked.

From my hiding place inside his jock, I have a little peep-hole I can look out of. I would know if he ever touched it with both hands. :lmao


I guess we'll all just have to trust you then.

[james evans]

On james Harden step back 3's, he travels a LOT. Someone here even had a gif in their sig of him traveling on a step back 3 against jimmy butler

[sasaint]

I wish the NBA actually respected the rules of basketball and called things like traveling, 3 seconds, moving screens, and double dribbling. I prefer how they officiate in the Olympics.

In the NFl and MLB they are trying to officiate by the rules. The ability of a team to not get penalties is part of the game in the NFL. Why is the NBA more of a playground type game?

GSH is exactly right in his comments above. Like myself, you are apparently a fan of the sport of basketball. However, David Stern understood that he could expand the popularity/ratings/revenue of the NBA by sacrificing the sport of basketball on the altar of entertainment. So he focused marketing on superstars and their head-to-head matchups, and relaxed the strict application of the rules for superstars and, increasingly lesser luminaries. Inevitably what goes on in the NBA trickles down to the NCAA since it is still the primary source of future NBA talent. For me, the irony is: today's NBA players are such incredible athletes - the best in the world, IMHO - that they would lose very little entertainment value if they were held accountable to the rules of the sport prior to the Stern reign.

[sasaint]

The problem is that when you don't follow the rules, you give the officials huge leeway to influence games. At any moment you can call any number of things that aren't usually called.

It's the same thing as giving police discretion when to apply laws. That gives them the option of applying laws to people they don't like and to those they do.

The only way to have s fair game is to apply the rules consistently and "by the book." The more interpretation you give to the officials the more corruption creeps in.

I hate listening to Mark Jackson or JVG applaud refs for swallowing their whistles on obvious calls during crunch time with lame excuses like "you're not gonna get that call at this point in the game" or "I like the no-call; let 'em play" or the worst: "let the players decide the game."

[dabom]

I guess we'll all just have to trust you then.

You have a creative imagination...

[james evans]

GSH (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1519) is exactly right in his comments above. Like myself, you are apparently a fan of the sport of basketball. However, David Stern understood that he could expand the popularity/ratings/revenue of the NBA by sacrificing the sport of basketball on the altar of entertainment. So he focused marketing on superstars and their head-to-head matchups, and relaxed the strict application of the rules for superstars and, increasingly lesser luminaries. Inevitably what goes on in the NBA trickles down to the NCAA since it is still the primary source of future NBA talent. For me, the irony is: today's NBA players are such incredible athletes - the best in the world, IMHO - that they would lose very little entertainment value if they were held accountable to the rules of the sport prior to the Stern reign.
That's why the NFL's product shits on the NBA. The NFL promotes the NFL as a whole .The NBA promotes players. They're not trying to sell you basketball, they're trying to sell you players. The Texans could play Lions in the superbowl and the numbers would still be large. If the Hawks played the Grizz in the Finals, how much do you think the league would promote it. Shit, it wouldn't even get that far because they'd do all they could to keep one of the teams out. The last NBA finals I remember without a "superstar" that the league has promoted heavily or tried to make a face of the league was 2005.

[GSH]

The problem is that when you don't follow the rules, you give the officials huge leeway to influence games. At any moment you can call any number of things that aren't usually called.

It's the same thing as giving police discretion when to apply laws. That gives them the option of applying laws to people they don't like and to those they do.


Years ago, the league would give "guidance" to the refs, about things that they needed to call more. And they showed the refs videos as examples of the problems. But they would show a half dozen clips of the same player, doing the same thing. So they would tell the refs, "We need to crack down on guys hooking with their off arms". Then they would show a bunch of clips, all of Yao Ming hooking. (For example.) They didn't actually tell the refs to call Yao for hooking - but the next game, he would get two whistles in the first minute or two for hooking, and be in foul trouble the whole game. Jeff Van Gundy found out about it, and had a fit - as he should have. He said something publicly and got find somethin like $100K.

Now if the league wasn't trying to influence the outcome for specific teams, what they did was unforgivable incompetence. I know for a fact that Tim and Bowen were both targets of those video campaigns. It's one thing to crack down on a particular violation. It's another to put one player in front of refs as the example. I'm convinced that the guy who was in charge of officiating at the time didn't like the way certain players played.

That being said, the NBA has cleaned up their act A LOT in the area of officiating. For instance, they used to have people reviewing game film to grade the officiating. But a lot of the people reviewing were just unqualified, and some were never even involved with basketball. I remember one or two were ex-football players. That was stupid, at best. These days they have competent, qualified people reviewing the officials. They may blow some calls, but I don't believe that there is any intentional bias for/against individual players or teams in the system. But they do favor the highlight-reel players, to drive revenues. There is zero doubt about that.

[sasaint]

That's why the NFL's product shits on the NBA. The NFL promotes the NFL as a whole .The NBA promotes players. They're not trying to sell you basketball, they're trying to sell you players. The Texans could play Lions in the superbowl and the numbers would still be large. If the Hawks played the Grizz in the Finals, how much do you think the league would promote it. Shit, it wouldn't even get that far because they'd do all they could to keep one of the teams out. The last NBA finals I remember without a "superstar" that the league has promoted heavily or tried to make a face of the league was 2005.

Yep, true. And I personally find that very sad. To me the sport of basketball is superior to the sport of football.

[GSH]

You have a creative imagination...


Thank you. But I can't take all the credit. You make it really easy.

Just curious - if other people are fooled because they are watching on TV... how can you be so sure it's not you being fooled? I mean, you must be talking about an inch of space or something, between his second hand and the ball. How can you see the space other people can't see?

Answer a serious question, and don't try to baffle us with bullshit.

[dabom]

Thank you. But I can't take all the credit. You make it really easy.

Just curious - if other people are fooled because they are watching on TV... how can you be so sure it's not you being fooled? I mean, you must be talking about an inch of space or something, between his second hand and the ball. How can you see the space other people can't see?

Answer a serious question, and don't try to baffle us with bullshit.

Almost like their aren't 3 fucking refs calling that shit even on an inconsistent basis. :lol

I don't see the opposite players complaining. :lol

And I don't see the opposite coaching staff calling for it. :lol

I can't believe I had to answer a stupid fucking question. :lmao

[BatManu20]

I specifically remember him doing it when he ripped D-Wade in the 2014 Finals and thinking to myself, "Damn that was a blatant carry" lol

[dabom]

I specifically remember him doing it when he ripped D-Wade in the 2014 Finals and thinking to myself, "Damn that was a blatant carry" lol

If you steal the ball, you can grab it underhand and then begin your initial dribble. He is allowed to control the ball first. Underhand grab. Looks funny but it's legal.

[dabom]

Pretend you are standing still and someone passes you the ball. You put it on one hand now. Now push the ball up and then down for the dribble. It's not a carry. Just looks funny.

[sasaint]

Like the massive travels when players catch a pass on the permiter now. Guys take 4 steps now before coming to a stop.

It's almost needs a market correction where they reset the basic fundamental calls. But at this point, that cats or of the bag and I'd be to difficult for players to adjust. They'd have to start at the youth level up through college to change the cultural again. Never gonna happen but I wish it would.

It's so hard to guard people nowadays with the carries players get away with.

Truth.

Carries... Travels... Moving screens... If you relax the rules for offensive players, sooner or later you must relax the rules for defensive players to restore some equilibrium. So, you end up with all the grabbing, pushing, etc., making the game extremely difficult to officiate and calls increasingly arbitrary.

[GSH]

Almost like their aren't 3 fucking refs calling that shit even on an inconsistent basis. :lol

I don't see the opposite players complaining. :lol

And I don't see the opposite coaching staff calling for it. :lol

I can't believe I had to answer a stupid fucking question. :lmao


So you can't answer the question of how YOU know he doesn't touch the ball with no hands, when other people are fooled because they're watching on TV?

Just say you don't know. Or answer the question.

[dabom]

So you can't answer the question of how YOU know he doesn't touch the ball with no hands, when other people are fooled because they're watching on TV?

Just say you don't know. Or answer the question.

I know because I watch a fuck ton of basketball, and I am very intellectual person with an aspect for attention to detail. I KNOW because I CAN SEE HIM NOT DOUBLE DRIBBLING. AND HENCE HE ALSO DOESN'T GET CALLED FOR IT. Faggot.

I said it is tricky watching it on TV. Key word "TRICKY". :lol

[GSH]

Pretend you are standing still and someone passes you the ball. You put it on one hand now. Now push the ball up and then down for the dribble. It's not a carry. Just looks funny.


You can do anything you want on the first dribble, before you've moved your feet. After that, if you put your hand under the ball and then roll it over, you've carried. Your example of just catching the ball doesn't matter. That should be pretty easy for an intellectual to understand.

I just picked the first clip I could find of Steph, and clipped the first carry I could find. Doing this lets him do things with the ball he could never do with a legal dribble. I could find LOTS of worse examples. I may even have some of the old pics I posted before. Doesn't matter. It happens in the NBA on most every possession. Curry is just able to take advantage of it better than most. He's a damn good player, doing what damn good players do.

http://i64.tinypic.com/13zqvyw.jpg

[GSH]

I know because I watch a fuck ton of basketball, and I am very intellectual person with an aspect for attention to detail. I KNOW because I CAN SEE HIM NOT DOUBLE DRIBBLING. AND HENCE HE ALSO DOESN'T GET CALLED FOR IT. Faggot.

I said it is tricky watching it on TV. Key word "TRICKY". :lol


So watching a "fuck ton" of basketball has made you an intellectual?

[dabom]

So watching a "fuck ton" of basketball has made you an intellectual?

One didn't lead to the other. I said I AM Intellectual and ALSO watch a ton of basketball. Are you a fucking retard? :lmao

I'm done with you faggot. :lmao

[dabom]

You can do anything you want on the first dribble, before you've moved your feet. After that, if you put your hand under the ball and then roll it over, you've carried. Your example of just catching the ball doesn't matter. That should be pretty easy for an intellectual to understand.

I just picked the first clip I could find of Steph, and clipped the first carry I could find. Doing this lets him do things with the ball he could never do with a legal dribble. I could find LOTS of worse examples. I may even have some of the old pics I posted before. Doesn't matter. It happens in the NBA on most every possession. Curry is just able to take advantage of it better than most. He's a damn good player, doing what damn good players do.

http://i64.tinypic.com/13zqvyw.jpg

I was talking about that specific play batmanu was talking about. Not this play you stupid fuck. What don't you get? :lmao

[daslicer]

That's why the NFL's product shits on the NBA. The NFL promotes the NFL as a whole .The NBA promotes players. They're not trying to sell you basketball, they're trying to sell you players. The Texans could play Lions in the superbowl and the numbers would still be large. If the Hawks played the Grizz in the Finals, how much do you think the league would promote it. Shit, it wouldn't even get that far because they'd do all they could to keep one of the teams out. The last NBA finals I remember without a "superstar" that the league has promoted heavily or tried to make a face of the league was 2005.

Just for comedy I hope one day we get to see two small market teams such as Utah vs Milwaukee finals. It would be funny to see talking heads like Stephen A Smith cry. I know Silver and sports media would be in tears having to cover that finals.

[HarlemHeat37]

Larry Bird received the most egregious preferential treatment I've ever seen, based on all my years of watching basketball, tbh..not even close..

[Splits]

not sure why/if it hasn't been posted, but...












































:lol today's NBA

[Horse]

The guy never fully touches the basketball with his hands. People watching from TV can be tricked.
Exactly

[Horse]

The guy never fully touches the basketball with his hands. People watching from TV can be tricked.
Exactly

[I. Hustle]

What sort of bitchery is this?

[lefty]

I've been noticing this for a long time now. If there's a loose ball, he'll go gather it on a dribble or two and then he'll clutch the ball. Then he'll start an entirely new dribble as if he hadn't already dribble. And the refs let him get away with it all the time. Once, I saw a ref call it; and he was pissed. He either doesn't know the rule, or he thinks it's just something one should not be called on.
Superstar treatment

Does Porker get away with it?

[lefty]

Larry Bird received the most egregious preferential treatment I've ever seen, based on all my years of watching basketball, tbh..not even close..
Elaborate tbh