Spurs are victims of the Golden Age of basketball

[ViceCity86]

2010-Present. The 3rd Golden Age of basketball.(Along with 1960s and 1980-1993 Era)

The Spurs teams past 5 years have way more talented rosters than Spurs championship teams during their 5 year run from 2003-2007. If you transport Spurs teams from 2012-2017 to 2003-2007, they win the same amount of championships, if not more.

Teams that knocked out Spurs recently

2012 Thunder- Westbrook Durant Harden Ibaka , daunting athletic ability.
2013 Heat- Peak Lebron, prime Bosh& Wade+ Allen and creative offense
2015 Clippers- Griffin Jordan CP3 sniper Reddick
2016 Thunder- Two monsters plus oversized skilled frontline. Possibly best OKC team.

Victims of circumstances. They ran into highly skilled superteams.

2003 Nets 2007 Cavs.:lol 2005 Pistons would get swamped in this era.

We may never win another title, but we're in the Golden Age of basketball. Enjoy it while it lasts, because around the corner might be another Blackhole. The Mikan Era, 70s basketball, talentless ISO 90s slugball.

[DAF86]

:lol yesterday's NBA.
:lol nostalgic old farts.

[Mikeanaro]

2012 2013 2016 REFS
2015 POP

:lol Golden Age... good one.

[sananspursfan21]

Well, when I think of a basketball golden age, I tend to think of a league with more than 3 championship worthy teams...

[313]

:lol yesterday's NBA.
:lol nostalgic old farts.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Well, when I think of a basketball golden age, I tend to think of a league with more than 3 championship worthy teams...

Really? When was that? Surely can't be the 90s or 80's.

[diego]

2010-Present. The 3rd Golden Age of basketball.(Along with 1960s and 1980-1993 Era)

The Spurs teams past 5 years have way more talented rosters than Spurs championship teams during their 5 year run from 2003-2007. If you transport Spurs teams from 2012-2017 to 2003-2007, they win the same amount of championships, if not more.

Teams that knocked out Spurs recently

2012 Thunder- Westbrook Durant Harden Ibaka , daunting athletic ability.
2013 Heat- Peak Lebron, prime Bosh& Wade+ Allen and creative offense
2015 Clippers- Griffin Jordan CP3 sniper Reddick
2016 Thunder- Two monsters plus oversized skilled frontline. Possibly best OKC team.

Victims of circumstances. They ran into highly skilled superteams.

2003 Nets 2007 Cavs.:lol 2005 Pistons would get swamped in this era.

We may never win another title, but we're in the Golden Age of basketball. Enjoy it while it lasts, because around the corner might be another Blackhole. The Mikan Era, 70s basketball, talentless ISO 90s slugball.

05 suns, 04-05 pistons, 06-07 mavs, 08 celtics, 07-09 Lakers were as good or better than those teams. 05-07 Spurs would stomp 15-17 Spurs IMO

[Fireball]

the third golden age is the bronze age tbh

[cd98]

To be honest, I think prime Duncan, Tony, Manu, and Bowen with whoever at center would own this league today.

[NameLess Scrub]

2012 2016 REFS
2015 POP
2013 senseless choke

:lol Golden Age... good one.

FIFY

How is a Golden Era defined? Profits? Quality teams? Transcendental talent?

[r0drig0lac]

facepalm

[Cry Havoc]

2010-Present. The 3rd Golden Age of basketball.(Along with 1960s and 1980-1993 Era)

The Spurs teams past 5 years have way more talented rosters than Spurs championship teams during their 5 year run from 2003-2007. If you transport Spurs teams from 2012-2017 to 2003-2007, they win the same amount of championships, if not more.

Teams that knocked out Spurs recently

2012 Thunder- Westbrook Durant Harden Ibaka , daunting athletic ability.
2013 Heat- Peak Lebron, prime Bosh& Wade+ Allen and creative offense
2015 Clippers- Griffin Jordan CP3 sniper Reddick
2016 Thunder- Two monsters plus oversized skilled frontline. Possibly best OKC team.

Victims of circumstances. They ran into highly skilled superteams.

2003 Nets 2007 Cavs.:lol 2005 Pistons would get swamped in this era.

We may never win another title, but we're in the Golden Age of basketball. Enjoy it while it lasts, because around the corner might be another Blackhole. The Mikan Era, 70s basketball, talentless ISO 90s slugball.

I don't know. 2005 Spurs were incredible. Prime Manu Tony and Tim -- I gotta think that would be enough to completely dismantle most teams today.

That said, some of their supporting case was :lol Malik Rose, I love him but :lol thinking about him playing big minutes in the recent Western Conference playoffs. Or Nazr. Or Speedy Claxton getting big minutes with this team. :lol

[lefty]

:lol Porker getting cucked by Claxton in game 6 vs NJ

[phxspurfan]

We may never win another title, but we're in the Golden Age of basketball. Enjoy it while it lasts, because around the corner might be another Blackhole. The Mikan Era, 70s basketball, talentless ISO 90s slugball.

The PGs today on the whole aren't as good as we had in teh past. For every Westbrook, Curry, Kyrie and Lillard you have MCW, Dragic, Seth Curry, Ray Felton, aging Parker/DWill/Harris/Rose/CP3/Rondo and some basically average guys like Lowry, IT, etc.

I think the SFs will become PGs like Simmons, Giannis etc in the mold of LeBron and everyone will be 6'8" including the centers for awhile.


No more Isaiah (original), Stockton, Payton, Iverson etc 5'10"-6'2" guys will be great anymore besides Curry

[lefty]

CP3 is the only true PG in today's NBA

He is a flopping phaggot, but he is good

[Cry Havoc]

The PGs today on the whole aren't as good as we had in teh past. For every Westbrook, Curry, Kyrie and Lillard you have MCW, Dragic, Seth Curry, Ray Felton, aging Parker/DWill/Harris/Rose/CP3/Rondo and some basically average guys like Lowry, IT, etc.

I think the SFs will become PGs like Simmons, Giannis etc in the mold of LeBron and everyone will be 6'8" including the centers for awhile.


No more Isaiah (original), Stockton, Payton, Iverson etc 5'10"-6'2" guys will be great anymore besides Curry

So there weren't bad PGs in the 80s and 90s? What? I think you could make the argument that of all positions in the last 20 years, PGs have had the largest influx of talent. Maybe 2nd to the new hybrid SF but it's close.

Super rose tinted glasses to suggest that because there are still sub par starting 1s in this league that it's worse than it has been historically.

[DarrinS]

We may never win another title, but we're in the Golden Age of basketball. Enjoy it while it lasts, because around the corner might be another Blackhole. The Mikan Era, 70s basketball, talentless ISO 90s slugball.


How so? You can hardly play defense anymore and teams are taking 30-40 3pt attempts per game.

[Cry Havoc]

How so? You can hardly play defense anymore and teams are taking 30-40 3pt attempts per game.

It's an efficient shot. It takes skill to shoot well. It spreads the defense. Teams play way harder defense now than they did in the 80s and 90s, and defense in the 90s was made easy by hand-checking and offenses were terrible. Both were pretty ugly until the mid 2000s and even then there were only a few teams who had consistent systems.

Basketball has never been a sport of consistency. You're just now seeing teams that are consistent two-way squads and play for a full 48. Just in the past half decade or so. Compare that to football, where players on 3 win teams play hard for pride for the most part, or basketball, which embraced advanced analytics long before the NBA ever thought about doing it.

It's not a coincidence that efficient, complex offenses are on the rise at the same time in-depth stats started being taken seriously in the sport. For too long it's been about individuals and 1 on 1 play.

[r0drig0lac]

with handcheking the 3pt shot would not be as efficient

[DarrinS]

It's an efficient shot. It takes skill to shoot well. It spreads the defense. Teams play way harder defense now than they did in the 80s and 90s, and defense in the 90s was made easy by hand-checking and offenses were terrible. Both were pretty ugly until the mid 2000s and even then there were only a few teams who had consistent systems.

Basketball has never been a sport of consistency. You're just now seeing teams that are consistent two-way squads and play for a full 48. Just in the past half decade or so. Compare that to football, where players on 3 win teams play hard for pride for the most part, or basketball, which embraced advanced analytics long before the NBA ever thought about doing it.

It's not a coincidence that efficient, complex offenses are on the rise at the same time in-depth stats started being taken seriously in the sport. For too long it's been about individuals and 1 on 1 play.


Perfect for James Harden's style. Personally, I think his style is not fun to watch.

[Cry Havoc]

with handcheking the 3pt shot would not be as efficient

And do you know why they took hand checking out?

Because defenses adapted and modernized. They began to develop complex systems to stop offenses. And so you had teams routinely scoring in the 70s in games. The NBA didn't like their offenses being humiliated on a nightly basis, so hand checking went out.

Hand checking is proof that the old defenses in the NBA were terrible, because they could use it and teams STILL scored 100+ points. Imagine someone like LeBron, Giannis, or Kawhi being able to hand check their opponents. :wow Kawhi's man would be lucky to score 5 points in a game. :lol

[Cry Havoc]

Perfect for James Harden's style. Personally, I think his style is not fun to watch.

I agree but it's not due to the 3 point shot, is it? It's more because of the frequency with which he seeks contact.

[r0drig0lac]

Imagine someone like LeBron, Giannis, or Kawhi being able to hand check their opponents. :wow Kawhi's man would be lucky to score 5 points in a game. :lol

on this point, I agree, however I would like to see more physicality in the games (especially for perimeter players). I just think that perimeter players have a lot more facility these days.

I prefer 80-86 than 130-122

[lefty]

on this point, I agree, however I would like to see more physicality in the games (especially for perimeter players). I just think that perimeter players have a lot more facility these days.
Agreed.
And I don't think they are better 3 pt shooters today in terms of skills.
Ffs today they are wide open for 2 hours lol

[Cry Havoc]

on this point, I agree, however I would like to see more physicality in the games (especially for perimeter players). I just think that perimeter players have a lot more facility these days.

I prefer 80-86 than 130-122

Here's the problem with that (and to a point, I agree, FYI, just saying for the sake of argument).

The more contact you allow, the harder it becomes to ref, because the line between "contact that degrades a player's ability to shoot or move freely" and "contact that is incidental or 'competitive'" gets blurred very very quickly. It could also have some pretty big disadvantages for larger players. If contact is called less, you quickly get a system where bigger players cause more "impact" and thus get called for more fouls, whereas a small player can hit you pretty hard without sending you flying. If you've ever played ball, you know that even if you're a smaller player, it doesn't take much to disrupt someone's shot. A hand in the back going up for a jumper is all it takes to completely throw the shot off.

I also prefer tightly contested defensive games, but the general public certainly does not. And I would couch that in the idea that I also like clean, beautiful ball movement -- but if you allow offensive players to get mugged, it not only stops scorers, but it causes havoc on offenses as well. Holding a player for just a half second is sometimes enough to throw off an entire offensive set, if it's timed to allow for picks and screens to rub off one another.

Additionally, I find hand checking an extremely lazy way to play defense. I'm glad to see that gone even if I think more physicality could be beneficial -- although given how much refs are struggling in this era with calls, I don't know if it's something we actually want.

[Cry Havoc]

Agreed.
And I don't think they are better 3 pt shooters today in terms of skills.
Ffs today they are wide open for 2 hours lol

That's silly. Go watch NBA finals games from the 80s. Players were given open jumpers at the elbow. There wasn't even an attempt to close out on them. A guy would be standing at the dots and just letting his opponent shoot from the top of the key all damn day. At least today you have closeouts.

If you see an open shot in today's playoffs (let alone the Finals), it's the result of an offensive play that has completely fooled the defense into misrotating.

Also, I do think that by and large players are better shooters today than they were in the 90s and 00s, the hard collapsing of defense has caused a need for that skill to redevelop.

And Steph Curry is a fucking freak, no one has ever shot the 3 like he can, from any angle or position.

[r0drig0lac]

^^I understand your point (especially about the general public), I just think today the defenses are with a absurd disadvantage

[DarrinS]

Why develop any good basketball fundamentals when you can just work on your shot? Idolizing players like Curry is going to ruin youth basketball.

[DarrinS]

Sometimes a good PnR is better than an iso 3. Ask Draymond. :lol

[Cry Havoc]

Why develop any good basketball fundamentals when you can just work on your shot? Idolizing players like Curry is going to ruin youth basketball.

What's weird is that for years the narrative has been, "Nowadays players have fancy dribbles but they can't shoot. I miss the old days when players were fundamentally sound and could shoot the rock." What alternate universe have we warped into where a good shooting stroke isn't part of the fundamentals of basketball?

Also, it's kind of baffling that you're crucifying Curry. He has some of the best handles in the entire league. He's a 10/10 shot, I would put his handles at an 8.75/10, and his passing is probably slightly weaker but still well above average for a PG -- just not out of this world for a superstar. Youths truly emulating Curry would be a lot better off than they would be trying to be Jordan or Westbrook.

[Mikeanaro]

FIFY

How is a Golden Era defined? Profits? Quality teams? Transcendental talent?
I say Quality teams.

[DarrinS]

What's weird is that for years the narrative has been, "Nowadays players have fancy dribbles but they can't shoot. I miss the old days when players were fundamentally sound and could shoot the rock." What alternate universe have we warped into where a good shooting stroke isn't part of the fundamentals of basketball?

Also, it's kind of baffling that you're crucifying Curry. He has some of the best handles in the entire league. He's a 10/10 shot, I would put his handles at an 8.75/10, and his passing is probably slightly weaker but still well above average for a PG -- just not out of this world for a superstar. Youths truly emulating Curry would be a lot better off than they would be trying to be Jordan or Westbrook.


There are other fundamentals besides dribbling and shooting.

Some of those could've been used here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGYSkJEATo0

[Cry Havoc]

There are other fundamentals besides dribbling and shooting.

Some of those could've been used here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGYSkJEATo0

So, what fundamentals do you feel Curry lacks?

[PÒÓCH]

So in essence what OP is saying is that this is the Golden Shower age.

[NameLess Scrub]

I say Quality teams.

Makes sense.. produces quality competition.

[phxspurfan]

So there weren't bad PGs in the 80s and 90s? What? I think you could make the argument that of all positions in the last 20 years, PGs have had the largest influx of talent. Maybe 2nd to the new hybrid SF but it's close.

Super rose tinted glasses to suggest that because there are still sub par starting 1s in this league that it's worse than it has been historically.

Def not saying the PGs of the current era as a group aren't one of the better eras for PGs. Just saying many of the PGs in the group are aging and their replacements aren't as good on the whole. OTOH the 6'8"-6'11" guys are pretty kick ass. For instance old school HOF guys like Clyde the Glide wouldn't hold a candle to guys like DeRozan. And old school all stars like Ron Harper aren't even sixth men in today's NBA

[Cry Havoc]

Def not saying the PGs of the current era as a group aren't one of the better eras for PGs. Just saying many of the PGs in the group are aging and their replacements aren't as good on the whole. OTOH the 6'8"-6'11" guys are pretty kick ass. For instance old school HOF guys like Clyde the Glide wouldn't hold a candle to guys like DeRozan. And old school all stars like Ron Harper aren't even sixth men in today's NBA

Hmm, not sure I agree. The new breed of PG seems to be able to not only open up defenses but man, some of these young guys can launch from downtown.

I could very well see the NBA in a decade being comprised of hybrid teams with PGs that can carve inside or fire away from long range, setting up do or die moments for the defense based on what they want to cover, and then running several 6'7-6'10 guys in the 2-3-4-5 spot who are all super mobile and rangy. We're already seeing the emergency of the "3 and D" center with guys like love. Can you imagine that in the 90s? :lol Hell most PGs until the recent era have historically been terrible shots. We're rapidly approaching a spot in the league where you absolutely cannot afford to have >1 guy who is not a capable shooter on the floor. The 4-5 top teams in the league are full of guys that can hurt you out to and including the 3 point line. Cavs Spurs Warriors and Rockets are all chock full of gunners.

[r0drig0lac]

Youths truly emulating Curry would be a lot better off than they would be trying to be Jordan

Do not you like it when a guy like Demar (even with 1/10 of MJ's talent) proves that it's possible to be an effective scorer even without a 3pt shot? particularly, I find this fantastic, only shows what more devastating MJ would be today

[Cry Havoc]

Do not you like it when a guy like Demar (even with 1/10 of MJ's talent) proves that it's possible to be an effective scorer even without a 3pt shot? particularly, I find this fantastic, only shows what more devastating MJ would be today

I think you're selling Demar pretty short there. Have you watched him play this year? He's a monster in every sense of the word. Jordan would be a freak in any era, no doubt, but he's not unapproachable by modern standards.

[r0drig0lac]

I think you're selling Demar pretty short there. Have you watched him play this year? He's a monster in every sense of the word. Jordan would be a freak in any era, no doubt, but he's not unapproachable by modern standards.

Maybe, I just see MJ being much much better on all the atributes, so maybe I disagree with you about someone (except prime Lebron) getting close to MJ currently, I just think it would be even easier for him these days

[phxspurfan]

We're rapidly approaching a spot in the league where you absolutely cannot afford to have >1 guy who is not a capable shooter on the floor. The 4-5 top teams in the league are full of guys that can hurt you out to and including the 3 point line. Cavs Spurs Warriors and Rockets are all chock full of gunners.

Arms race and all sure but there's only one ball. I think the playoffs show having some shooters on the floor, a defensive stopper, rim protection and a 6'8" guy who can see over defenses (aka LeBron) can win over super teams like the Dubs with all shooters. Even guys like Roberson should retain great value.

[Arcadian]

The Spurs aren't "victims" of anything. They won a championship during the time frame you cited. :lol

If you're gonna talk about victims, use a team that hasn't won as your example. Such as...the Thunder! They're victims, not us.

[DarrinS]

Rockets vs Warriors, Dec. 1

Rockets 14 of 44 on 3 pt attempts
Warriors 12 of 44 on 3 pt attempts

Ah, the "Golden Age" of basketball

[lefty]

Here's the problem with that (and to a point, I agree, FYI, just saying for the sake of argument).

The more contact you allow, the harder it becomes to ref, because the line between "contact that degrades a player's ability to shoot or move freely" and "contact that is incidental or 'competitive'" gets blurred very very quickly. It could also have some pretty big disadvantages for larger players. If contact is called less, you quickly get a system where bigger players cause more "impact" and thus get called for more fouls, whereas a small player can hit you pretty hard without sending you flying. If you've ever played ball, you know that even if you're a smaller player, it doesn't take much to disrupt someone's shot. A hand in the back going up for a jumper is all it takes to completely throw the shot off.

I also prefer tightly contested defensive games, but the general public certainly does not. And I would couch that in the idea that I also like clean, beautiful ball movement -- but if you allow offensive players to get mugged, it not only stops scorers, but it causes havoc on offenses as well. Holding a player for just a half second is sometimes enough to throw off an entire offensive set, if it's timed to allow for picks and screens to rub off one another.

Additionally, I find hand checking an extremely lazy way to play defense. I'm glad to see that gone even if I think more physicality could be beneficial -- although given how much refs are struggling in this era with calls, I don't know if it's something we actually want.

Interesting post tbh

[cutewizard]

Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell say "hello!"

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O63ohddcYM

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM64y9nTtTg

[100%duncan]

The Spurs aren't "victims" of anything. They won a championship during the time frame you cited. :lol

If you're gonna talk about victims, use a team that hasn't won as your example. Such as...the Thunder! They're victims, not us.

Tbh :lol even the clippers or the rockets who are clearly a tier below the league's top.

[ViceCity86]

2017 Warriors. :wow

[GSH]

So, what fundamentals do you feel Curry lacks?


If they called carrying they way they did in the Jordan era? He wouldn't be half as dangerous with the ball in his hands. That's just fact. Not saying it's limited to him, but since this thread is comparing NBA teams and players of different eras, that has to be part of the discussion. Curry is still the best pure shooter I've ever seen, but his "fundamentals" as a PG depend on being in the league at a time when they have crippled defense, and allowed ball-handlers to carry, so that they can create a lot of highlight reel plays. Forget better or worse, or "Golden Age". The game is being played under a different set of rules now.

Make modern golfers play with the clubs and balls of the 70's, they would look like duffers. You simply can't do some of the things they do now with those old clubs. (At least not often enough to count.) The same goes for the incredible moves we see on a basketball court. They couldn't do a lot of those things on the court if they were still calling carrying. And Bruce Bowen wouldn't be nearly the same defensive stopper today, because they wouldn't allow him to play the same way.

The old ABA was known as the "no-defense league". But after the merger, a lot of ABA players turned out to be really good defenders - some of the best, in fact. The problem had been that the rule structure in the ABA prevented them from playing defense aggressively, instead rewarding wide-open offense. The NBA hasn't reached the level of the old ABA, but it's heading that direction. I'm not saying good or bad, just naming the tune.

[ViceCity86]

How would the 99 Spurs fare in today's NBA with a perimeter cast of A.Johnson, Elie, ******, Kerr, Daniels, Kersey, Jackson?

FTR, 2014 Spurs would mopped 2005 Pistons seven man bandit off the floor. Superior roster and style of play.

Current Spurs roster 10-13 is better than Bulls 72 win team 7-10 players.

[james evans]

It's an efficient shot. It takes skill to shoot well. It spreads the defense. Teams play way harder defense now than they did in the 80s and 90s, and defense in the 90s was made easy by hand-checking and offenses were terrible. Both were pretty ugly until the mid 2000s and even then there were only a few teams who had consistent systems.

Basketball has never been a sport of consistency. You're just now seeing teams that are consistent two-way squads and play for a full 48. Just in the past half decade or so. Compare that to football, where players on 3 win teams play hard for pride for the most part, or basketball, which embraced advanced analytics long before the NBA ever thought about doing it.

It's not a coincidence that efficient, complex offenses are on the rise at the same time in-depth stats started being taken seriously in the sport. For too long it's been about individuals and 1 on 1 play.
you guys really don't know what handchecking was. You're under the impression, because you heard one person say it and it began to spread through the internet community, that handchecking meant grabbing and holding your opponent. NO!! It simply means what the name is. "handchecking". Handchecking will not keep your from getting crossed over. Handchecking will not keep you from getiting dunked on. Handcheckign will not keep you from hitting a 3. It just means you could put a hand on the defender. Dale Ellis hit a lot of 3s int he handchecking era. Jordan averaged 37 a game. So did Nique. When they got rid of handchecking(during 94--95 nba season), you could only use your forearm in the paint when defending and no longer the palm of your hand. That didn't stop Hakeem from tearing Robinson a new asshold that season in the WCF. Didn't stop Shaq from tearing thru the east. So in the future, please do some researching before you go around repeating shit you hear others say online to prop up these pussified players of today.

When I was growing up, if you went to a basketball try out and was on a fast break but stopped at the 3 point line to shoot a 3, more than likely, you wouldn't have came back the next day. Now you have centers pulling up shooting 3s. Multiple 3's per game and it's celebrated :lol

[tbdog]

Just remember there was no zone defense of any kind back in the days. A defender must be defending someone, not sure if it was arms length or not. So there was no doubling off ball, no loading up one side. So the game was very two-man games and iso's.

[james evans]

Just remember there was no zone defense of any kind back in the days. A defender must be defending someone, not sure if it was arms length or not. So there was no doubling off ball, no loading up one side. So the game was very two-man games and iso's.
there were also shot blocking centers in damn near every game. On the worst night, you were seeing Duane Causwell with the Kings in the middle during the 90s. Every game a 7 foot center guarding the paint challenging you coming in. Now, you have teams playign small ball in which the tallest player on the floor might be 6'9 at times and then he's shooting 3's.

[Kidd K]

Golden Age of the Western Conference*

Let's not go including the east because it doesn't deserve a mention. East's Finals berth has been in question maybe 3 times in practically the last decade and a half and they rarely ever won until LeBron and Bosh went to Miami to play with Wade.

Spurs would have beaten the best east team in a series probably 15/19 times during Duncan's career.

[Cry Havoc]

you guys really don't know what handchecking was. You're under the impression, because you heard one person say it and it began to spread through the internet community, that handchecking meant grabbing and holding your opponent. NO!! It simply means what the name is. "handchecking". Handchecking will not keep your from getting crossed over. Handchecking will not keep you from getiting dunked on. Handcheckign will not keep you from hitting a 3. It just means you could put a hand on the defender. Dale Ellis hit a lot of 3s int he handchecking era. Jordan averaged 37 a game. So did Nique. When they got rid of handchecking(during 94--95 nba season), you could only use your forearm in the paint when defending and no longer the palm of your hand. That didn't stop Hakeem from tearing Robinson a new asshold that season in the WCF. Didn't stop Shaq from tearing thru the east. So in the future, please do some researching before you go around repeating shit you hear others say online to prop up these pussified players of today.

When I was growing up, if you went to a basketball try out and was on a fast break but stopped at the 3 point line to shoot a 3, more than likely, you wouldn't have came back the next day. Now you have centers pulling up shooting 3s. Multiple 3's per game and it's celebrated :lol

I was alive and watching the NBA during the hand-check era, and what I said was mostly over-simplification, but I was echoing what the others said about how "impossible" it is to play defense today by comparison.

So in the future, please refrain from assumptions just because you think you're the only OG on the forum. :lol

None of this changes the fact that after hand-checking was eliminated, NBA defenses evolved and they eventually had to change the rules again because defenses (without hand-checking) were too good and were shutting down opponents. That's the reason for the modern NBA rules, not that players have "become pussified". :lol

[$pursDynasty]

The Spurs aren't "victims" of anything. They won a championship during the time frame you cited. :lol

If you're gonna talk about victims, use a team that hasn't won as your example. Such as...the Thunder! They're victims, not us.
seven year period, Spurs have been in two finals and have won one, the only team during that stretch that did better was the Heat that were in 4 and won 2. We have done equally as well as the Dubs and the Cabs over this golden age so I agree with Arc.

[r0drig0lac]

you guys really don't know what handchecking was. You're under the impression, because you heard one person say it and it began to spread through the internet community, that handchecking meant grabbing and holding your opponent. NO!! It simply means what the name is. "handchecking". Handchecking will not keep your from getting crossed over. Handchecking will not keep you from getiting dunked on. Handcheckign will not keep you from hitting a 3. It just means you could put a hand on the defender. Dale Ellis hit a lot of 3s int he handchecking era. Jordan averaged 37 a game. So did Nique. When they got rid of handchecking(during 94--95 nba season), you could only use your forearm in the paint when defending and no longer the palm of your hand. That didn't stop Hakeem from tearing Robinson a new asshold that season in the WCF. Didn't stop Shaq from tearing thru the east. So in the future, please do some researching before you go around repeating shit you hear others say online to prop up these pussified players of today.

When I was growing up, if you went to a basketball try out and was on a fast break but stopped at the 3 point line to shoot a 3, more than likely, you wouldn't have came back the next day. Now you have centers pulling up shooting 3s. Multiple 3's per game and it's celebrated :lol
That makes a big difference, and it's not necessary to be as smart as you to understand.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

you guys really don't know what handchecking was. You're under the impression, because you heard one person say it and it began to spread through the internet community, that handchecking meant grabbing and holding your opponent. NO!! It simply means what the name is. "handchecking". Handchecking will not keep your from getting crossed over. Handchecking will not keep you from getiting dunked on. Handcheckign will not keep you from hitting a 3. It just means you could put a hand on the defender. Dale Ellis hit a lot of 3s int he handchecking era. Jordan averaged 37 a game. So did Nique. When they got rid of handchecking(during 94--95 nba season), you could only use your forearm in the paint when defending and no longer the palm of your hand. That didn't stop Hakeem from tearing Robinson a new asshold that season in the WCF. Didn't stop Shaq from tearing thru the east. So in the future, please do some researching before you go around repeating shit you hear others say online to prop up these pussified players of today.

When I was growing up, if you went to a basketball try out and was on a fast break but stopped at the 3 point line to shoot a 3, more than likely, you wouldn't have came back the next day. Now you have centers pulling up shooting 3s. Multiple 3's per game and it's celebrated :lol

Handchecking will help you when someone crosses you over. You can reach out and impede their progress if beat. Now its a foul It is really useful in going over screens where you can again impede their progress. Mario Elie used to maul people going over screens and he sure as hell grabbed guys. It was the difference between a guy like Jaren Jackson being able to defend at the NBA level and its why Gary Neal has no shot despite his size.

I have no idea what point you think you are making naming big guards and forwards from 20 years ago. The point to be taken is that guys like Curry and Westbrook would not be able to operate like they do now because big guys could just reach out to push/grab them to impede their progress. The only analog from that era was AI and he was extremely physical and still got hammered regularly. That was so impressive about him: he kept getting up and going back for more.

Who gives a shit what it was like in your HS basketball team? You obviously didn't play at anything resembling a high level.

[james evans]

Handchecking will help you when someone crosses you over. You can reach out and impede their progress if beat. Now its a foul It is really useful in going over screens where you can again impede their progress. Mario Elie used to maul people going over screens and he sure as hell grabbed guys. It was the difference between a guy like Jaren Jackson being able to defend at the NBA level and its why Gary Neal has no shot despite his size.

I have no idea what point you think you are making naming big guards and forwards from 20 years ago. The point to be taken is that guys like Curry and Westbrook would not be able to operate like they do now because big guys could just reach out to push/grab them to impede their progress. The only analog from that era was AI and he was extremely physical and still got hammered regularly. That was so impressive about him: he kept getting up and going back for more.

Who gives a shit what it was like in your HS basketball team? You obviously didn't play at anything resembling a high level.
that is bullshit. if someone had you beat on a cross over, you could not reach out and grab them to stop their movement. you would have had to have your hands in position from the start. Stop deceiving people with nonsense:lol . If it truly was that simple, then Tim Hardaway or Mahmoud Abdul Rauf wouldn't have every drove past anyone. Handchecking was NOT, and i repeat, NOT, sticking your hand out, holding your defensive assignment in front of you. You could touch players here and there even touch them on the hip and force them in a direction, but you couldn't just grab and hold. fuck outta here with that bullshit

[FuzzyLumpkins]

that is bullshit. if someone had you beat on a cross over, you could not reach out and grab them to stop their movement. you would have had to have your hands in position from the start. Stop deceiving people with nonsense:lol . If it truly was that simple, then Tim Hardaway or Mahmoud Abdul Rauf wouldn't have every drove past anyone. Handchecking was NOT, and i repeat, NOT, sticking your hand out, holding your defensive assignment in front of you. You could touch players here and there even touch them on the hip and force them in a direction, but you couldn't just grab and hold. fuck outta here with that bullshit

:lol This is amusing.

So you think that you cannot reach out and block someone with your arm or hand when they are trying to pass you particularly if you already have your hands up? This notion that the refs didn't allow grabbing and holding is also amusing. They allow it from time to time now when they decide to let players play.

No one is saying it was foolproof, couldn't miss, or the like but if you didn't notice the grabbing, pushing, and other malfeasance back then then you weren't paying attention. The SPurs in particular used to do it a lot under early Pop.

:rollin Abdul Rauf :rollin

You're a maroon.

[HarlemHeat37]

I hate yesterday's NBA, it's absolute garbage to watch and doesn't hold up today, tbh..too many goons, white American players(nothing against them being white, but there's a reason they have been phased out of the NBA), etc..

However, I can't imagine anybody arguing that handchecking doesn't have a major effect on an offensive player:lol..have you ever played basketball against handchecking? There's nothing I hate more on a basketball court than some out of shape or unathletic nigga putting his hands all over me and/or impeding my progress because he doesn't have the athleticism or lateral quickness to keep up, tbh..having a defender put both his hands and weighted force on your body absolutely affects your game(impeding progress, forcing you off balance, frustration, etc), especially if he's bigger/stronger..

You can call it "soft", but handchecking alters the game to the point where it essentially becomes a contact sport(considering you need to be physical in return to combat the handchecking defender)..it creates hideous basketball..

[james evans]

I hate yesterday's NBA, it's absolute garbage to watch and doesn't hold up today, tbh..too many goons, white American players(nothing against them being white, but there's a reason they have been phased out of the NBA), etc..

However, I can't imagine anybody arguing that handchecking doesn't have a major effect on an offensive player:lol..have you ever played basketball against handchecking? There's nothing I hate more on a basketball court than some out of shape or unathletic nigga putting his hands all over me and/or impeding my progress because he doesn't have the athleticism or lateral quickness to keep up, tbh..having a defender put both his hands and weighted force on your body absolutely affects your game(impeding progress, forcing you off balance, frustration, etc), especially if he's bigger/stronger..

You can call it "soft", but handchecking alters the game to the point where it essentially becomes a contact sport(considering you need to be physical in return to combat the handchecking defender)..it creates hideous basketball..
In the handchecking era, there were things you could do and things you couldn't do. Of course it's harder to score under handchecking rules than today, but the game was more physical back then. The pump fake, jump into the defender for 3 free throws wasn't a big thing because 3 freethrows off a 3 pointer didn't even get to the NBA until 93(pippen fouling Hubert Davis in the 94 ECSF was the first big play that helped an opponent benefit from it in the playoffs.) Waht these mfs do in the gym is just straight grabbing and using their arms to stop you. I just hate when people try to talk bullshit about something they know nothing about to prop up their favorite players. For example, curry fans will claim that after handchecking, Gary Payton's career was basically over while not being aware of Payton winning DPOY AFTER handcheckng was banned haha