No love for Pau?

[midnightpulp]

Another target of a certain "crew" for some inexplicable reason, yet MVPau has a +11 net rating (off 113, def 102), ranks 2nd on the team in raw BPM (not the best stat, admittedly), second in VORP, maintaining a healthy +1.84 RPM (a wonky stat, indeed), and averages a 23.5 PER against opposing centers who are averaging 17.5 PER against him.

"But he's a liability against pick-and-roll small ball lineups."

That's why we got David Lee. But Pau should matchup perfectly if we find ourselves against a team like Memphis or if the complexion of the game turns into a grindfest where size and rebounding matters, as playoff games often do, regardless of the offense ran.

[BatManu20]

Great game tonight obviously. If only he play against his former team that got rid of him every night, tbh.

[cutewizard]

There was a time when Pau Gasol was the best player on the planet.......

:bobo

[Emperor]

There was a time when Pau Gasol was the best player on the planet.......

:bobo

When?

[SpursIndonesia]

When?

When he dragged a lottery bound all star SG to back to back championships, of course.

[Mr. Body]

He's been great. Maligned on this board probably for taking Duncan's spot, he's been a great fit. He's not the fastest and is slowing down but he's not the liability so many claim.

[silverblackfan]

He has been great all year for a first year vet big man. He still has a ton of offensive tricks in his bag and is coming around on defense. Half of the defense is learning that your team will back you up if you stop the first move. That trust seems to be there a lot more now. Hell, he is even blocking shots.
He is a very savvy veteran and I got to believe he has another gear for the playoffs if his history (international and NBA) is any indicator.

[Play Boban]

He's a huge upgrade over Duncan over the last season or two. Truth bomb.

[boutons_deux]

All Pau needs now, even at his age, is playing aggressively and a pair of balls.

[BillMc]

He's been great. Maligned on this board probably for taking Duncan's spot, he's been a great fit. He's not the fastest and is slowing down but he's not the liability so many claim.

[MaNu4Tres]

While he's been solid more often than not, Spurs also play poor teams more often than not because of how watered down the league is.

Gasol has been very solid, but he's not the difference maker against these terrible teams, since Spurs can handle these teams without him. While his game last night was impressive, I also know it's somewhat irrelevant because of the competition.

The true measurement of his impact will be measured against the top 5 teams in the league. Him being able to stay on the floor and remain effective against the top teams in a playoff series is where I'll assess his true impact.

I just want the playoffs to start already.

[Fireball]

better competition would be appreciated ... cannot wait for upcoming games against Toronto, Cleveland and OKC ...

[apalisoc_9]

While he's been solid more often than not, Spurs also play poor teams more often than not because of how watered down the league is.

Gasol has been very solid, but he's not the difference maker against these terrible teams, since Spurs can handle these teams without him. While his game last night was impressive, I also know it's somewhat irrelevant because of the competition.

The true measurement of his impact will be measured against the top 5 teams in the league. Him being able to stay on the floor and remain effective against the top teams in a playoff series is where I'll assess his true impact.

I just want the playoffs to start already.

We're Technically, not even half way through...:lol

These games against shitty teams are really tough to watch.

[$pursDynasty]

Pau had a heck of a game you could tell he really wanted to stick it to the Lake Show (and there ain't nothing wrong with that). If he can bring that intensity to the big games (Dubs, Cavs, Clips and Rox) it is just another weapon to be used on the road to number six.

[Chinook]

He increased the talent level of the team, and that's always important. And he has fit the culture pretty well. I still think he can get tougher and try harder, and hopefully he is just pacing himself. Because if he plays with the mentality he had when he carried the Lakers to back-to-back titles, the Spurs will be the best team in the league.

[DMC]

How did Pau go 9 for 9? I swear he shot an airball hook shot.

[sasaint]

While he's been solid more often than not, Spurs also play poor teams more often than not because of how watered down the league is.

Gasol has been very solid, but he's not the difference maker against these terrible teams, since Spurs can handle these teams without him. While his game last night was impressive, I also know it's somewhat irrelevant because of the competition.

The true measurement of his impact will be measured against the top 5 teams in the league. Him being able to stay on the floor and remain effective against the top teams in a playoff series is where I'll assess his true impact.

I just want the playoffs to start already.

Noooo! Not yet. Simmons and Bertans are starting to show real improvement and consistency. I want to give them as much time as possible to maximize their potential.

[NameLess Scrub]

Whenever I see Pau looking lazy on defense and rebounding.. I don't like it.

[NameLess Scrub]

While he's been solid more often than not, Spurs also play poor teams more often than not because of how watered down the league is.

Gasol has been very solid, but he's not the difference maker against these terrible teams, since Spurs can handle these teams without him. While his game last night was impressive, I also know it's somewhat irrelevant because of the competition.

The true measurement of his impact will be measured against the top 5 teams in the league. Him being able to stay on the floor and remain effective against the top teams in a playoff series is where I'll assess his true impact.

I just want the playoffs to start already.

You're anxious to be eliminated by Jamal Crawford, Austin Rivers and Mbah a Moute?

[Chinook]

How did Pau go 9 for 9? I swear he shot an airball hook shot.

His first make as a push-shot that looked like it died on the way there. But it just conked through the hoop without bouncing off anything. Anderson's last two looked exactly the same way.

[boutons_deux]

JSimm beginning to make some cool plays

[cutewizard]

He increased the talent level of the team, and that's always important. And he has fit the culture pretty well. I still think he can get tougher and try harder, and hopefully he is just pacing himself. Because if he plays with the mentality he had when he carried the Lakers to back-to-back titles, the Spurs will be the best team in the league.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

:lobt2:

[TheGreatYacht]

Another target of a certain "crew" for some inexplicable reason,
Im sure Pau doesn't care, tbh..

He's been thrown under the bus before by Kobetards, what are 5 helmet wearing Kawhobetards going to do?

[gameFACE]

Sometimes he looks lethargic. Other times he looks like a solid fit. But last night he was Dirk Diggler.

"You've got the touch. You've got the PAUer......."

[SAGirl]

Whenever I see Pau looking lazy on defense and rebounding.. I don't like it.
It's probably that... It's not that I don't appreciate his gifts offensively but I have been turned off by too many poor defensive possessions to be ohhhing and ahhhing.... That said, he's playing better when he shows the effort... maybe he's pacing himself?

[SnakeBoy]

Pau is a monster on both ends. Only thing this team needs to ring this year is for Pop to give Kyle a chance to shine. #freeSloMo

[BatManu20]

I have hope that the Pau's laziness on the defensive end and when it comes to rebounding may just be a sign of him coasting in the regular season, especially at his age. I hope/think he will turn it on in the playoffs.

[MultiTroll]

I have hope that the Pau's laziness on the defensive end and when it comes to rebounding may just be a sign of him coasting in the regular season, especially at his age. I hope/think he will turn it on in the playoffs.
I thought Pops interview where he said "I shouldn't have to give rah rah speeches to get these guys ready to play. If you're a plumber, you come ready to do good work or you don't get work" etc

was aimed at Pau and LMA. Fitted both of them.
Since then we have definitely seen more effort out of Pau. LMA still slacks occasionally on defense but also has been much better since that.

[NameLess Scrub]

It's probably that... It's not that I don't appreciate his gifts offensively but I have been turned off by too many poor defensive possessions to be ohhhing and ahhhing.... That said, he's playing better when he shows the effort... maybe he's pacing himself?

It seems we all think and hope is that.

I understand, mid-late 30s suck.

[HarlemHeat37]

I didn't mind the Pau signing and figured he would be an upgrade over Duncan, but Pau is just a nice stat-padder against garbage teams, tbh..to be fair, so was Duncan last season, as well..their advanced metrics appear to be better than they actually are due to the number of games they play against bad teams in a league that is top-heavy..it's very easy to mask their flaws on a team with the Spurs system and continuity where they just have to catch and finish..

Worst pick&roll defenders among starting bigs the past 2 seasons:

Jokic 1.1 PPP
Valenciunas 1.09
Drummond 1.06
Plumlee 1.02
Pau 1.02

It won't be as much of a concern against the Warriors(his post game sucks now, though, so that will be a larger concern vs. GS), since they don't utilize their bigs in pick&roll, nor do their wing players attack the rim through it, either, but Gasol will be unplayable vs. teams that rely on it for primary offense like the Rockets and Clippers..


Pau's raw numbers, this season:

vs. lottery teams: 18 games, 15 PPG on 57.5% eFG
vs. West playoff teams: 9 games, 9.7 PPG on 49.3% eFG

He's a nice gimmick during the RS, he will be unplayable against athletic playoff teams..

I also find it funny that Mid had to include a caveat for using BPM to defend Pau, since it's a stat that supports players he argues against, while ranking a certain player he loves as the least valuable player on the team(in regards to the way he plays his role):lol

[apalisoc_9]

I didn't mind the Pau signing and figured he would be an upgrade over Duncan, but Pau is just a nice stat-padder against garbage teams, tbh..to be fair, so was Duncan last season, as well..their advanced metrics appear to be better than they actually are due to the number of games they play against bad teams in a league that is top-heavy..it's very easy to mask their flaws on a team with the Spurs system and continuity where they just have to catch and finish..

Worst pick&roll defenders among starting bigs the past 2 seasons:

Jokic 1.1 PPP
Valenciunas 1.09
Drummond 1.06
Plumlee 1.02
Pau 1.02

It won't be as much of a concern against the Warriors(his post game sucks now, though, so that will be a larger concern vs. GS), since they don't utilize their bigs in pick&roll, nor do their wing players attack the rim through it, either, but Gasol will be unplayable vs. teams that rely on it for primary offense like the Rockets and Clippers..


Pau's raw numbers, this season:

vs. lottery teams: 18 games, 15 PPG on 57.5% eFG
vs. West playoff teams: 9 games, 9.7 PPG on 49.3% eFG

He's a nice gimmick during the RS, he will be unplayable against athletic playoff teams..

I also find it funny that Mid had to include a caveat for using BPM to defend Pau, since it's a stat that supports players he argues against, while ranking a certain player he loves as the least valuable player on the team(in regards to the way he plays his role):lol

Midnughtpulp cheering for Porker, Pau and LMA..Players who are known for lockerrom issues, diva, stat padding etc.

Found himself in the wrong end of the spectrum :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

^^:lol Parker is fine, tbh, he's a champion and a HOF..I cheer for him just like Mid and others do..I just found his BPM disclaimer to be transparent..

[BillMc]

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2017/0113/Gasol.PNG&cquality=80

[dabom]

I didn't mind the Pau signing and figured he would be an upgrade over Duncan, but Pau is just a nice stat-padder against garbage teams, tbh..to be fair, so was Duncan last season, as well..their advanced metrics appear to be better than they actually are due to the number of games they play against bad teams in a league that is top-heavy..it's very easy to mask their flaws on a team with the Spurs system and continuity where they just have to catch and finish..

Worst pick&roll defenders among starting bigs the past 2 seasons:

Jokic 1.1 PPP
Valenciunas 1.09
Drummond 1.06
Plumlee 1.02
Pau 1.02

It won't be as much of a concern against the Warriors(his post game sucks now, though, so that will be a larger concern vs. GS), since they don't utilize their bigs in pick&roll, nor do their wing players attack the rim through it, either, but Gasol will be unplayable vs. teams that rely on it for primary offense like the Rockets and Clippers..


Pau's raw numbers, this season:

vs. lottery teams: 18 games, 15 PPG on 57.5% eFG
vs. West playoff teams: 9 games, 9.7 PPG on 49.3% eFG

He's a nice gimmick during the RS, he will be unplayable against athletic playoff teams..

I also find it funny that Mid had to include a caveat for using BPM to defend Pau, since it's a stat that supports players he argues against, while ranking a certain player he loves as the least valuable player on the team(in regards to the way he plays his role):lol

OP using BPM. :lmao

What about porker? :lol

[DMC]

His first make as a push-shot that looked like it died on the way there. But it just conked through the hoop without bouncing off anything. Anderson's last two looked exactly the same way.

Nah I think it was him that did that airball shot right after Manu turned the ball over. LA didn't take the ball out of bounds.

[DMC]

^^:lol Parker is fine, tbh, he's a champion and a HOF..I cheer for him just like Mid and others do..I just found his BPM disclaimer to be transparent..

Today's HOFers :lol

[RD2191]

Crofl. Go ducks yourself faggot ass OP. Bitch ass nigga.

[GSH]

Midnughtpulp cheering for Porker, Pau and LMA..Players who are known for lockerrom issues, diva, stat padding etc.

Not only that, but they refuse to use gender-neutral pronouns. And Pau man-spreads on the shuttle from the airport. There is some very serious shit going on with this Spurs roster.

[MaNu4Tres]

I didn't mind the Pau signing and figured he would be an upgrade over Duncan, but Pau is just a nice stat-padder against garbage teams, tbh..to be fair, so was Duncan last season, as well..their advanced metrics appear to be better than they actually are due to the number of games they play against bad teams in a league that is top-heavy..it's very easy to mask their flaws on a team with the Spurs system and continuity where they just have to catch and finish..

Worst pick&roll defenders among starting bigs the past 2 seasons:

Jokic 1.1 PPP
Valenciunas 1.09
Drummond 1.06
Plumlee 1.02
Pau 1.02

It won't be as much of a concern against the Warriors(his post game sucks now, though, so that will be a larger concern vs. GS), since they don't utilize their bigs in pick&roll, nor do their wing players attack the rim through it, either, but Gasol will be unplayable vs. teams that rely on it for primary offense like the Rockets and Clippers..


Pau's raw numbers, this season:

vs. lottery teams: 18 games, 15 PPG on 57.5% eFG
vs. West playoff teams: 9 games, 9.7 PPG on 49.3% eFG

He's a nice gimmick during the RS, he will be unplayable against athletic playoff teams..

I also find it funny that Mid had to include a caveat for using BPM to defend Pau, since it's a stat that supports players he argues against, while ranking a certain player he loves as the least valuable player on the team(in regards to the way he plays his role):lol

This.

Harlem knows his shit... tbh..

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Hi defense will always negate whatever he does on offense

[All Mighty Janitor]

Not only that, but they refuse to use gender-neutral pronouns. And Pau man-spreads on the shuttle from the airport. There is some very serious shit going on with this Spurs roster.
:rollin

[midnightpulp]

I didn't mind the Pau signing and figured he would be an upgrade over Duncan, but Pau is just a nice stat-padder against garbage teams, tbh..to be fair, so was Duncan last season, as well..their advanced metrics appear to be better than they actually are due to the number of games they play against bad teams in a league that is top-heavy..it's very easy to mask their flaws on a team with the Spurs system and continuity where they just have to catch and finish..

Worst pick&roll defenders among starting bigs the past 2 seasons:

Jokic 1.1 PPP
Valenciunas 1.09
Drummond 1.06
Plumlee 1.02
Pau 1.02

It won't be as much of a concern against the Warriors(his post game sucks now, though, so that will be a larger concern vs. GS), since they don't utilize their bigs in pick&roll, nor do their wing players attack the rim through it, either, but Gasol will be unplayable vs. teams that rely on it for primary offense like the Rockets and Clippers..


Pau's raw numbers, this season:

vs. lottery teams: 18 games, 15 PPG on 57.5% eFG
vs. West playoff teams: 9 games, 9.7 PPG on 49.3% eFG

He's a nice gimmick during the RS, he will be unplayable against athletic playoff teams..

I also find it funny that Mid had to include a caveat for using BPM to defend Pau, since it's a stat that supports players he argues against, while ranking a certain player he loves as the least valuable player on the team(in regards to the way he plays his role):lol

I just included BPM because the Helmet crew loves to use it when comparing Parker and House.

I don't really like BPM. Nor do I like RPM. The latter of which commits a huge fault by its Bayesian inference model. This means that a player can pad for 2 minutes in garbage time, and then the model "infers" that production over 48 minutes. It supposedly adjusts for competition, but at best it could only be an arbitrary guesstimate. It's a highly overrated stat.

In general, basketball "advanced stats" are garbage. I used to be a big defender, but since I've gotten more into baseball stats over these past couple of years, basketball advanced stats are in the stone age by comparison. We still don't have a consistency metric (i.e take two players who average 11ppg. The raw stats and even advanced metrics might have them as equals, but if one player obtains his 11ppg by way of scoring 20 this game, 2 the next game, 17 this game, 5 the next game while the other does it in a 12, 10, 9, 13 way, the latter player is more consistent and easier to gameplan for in an offense).

The stats I trust most right now are empirically harder stats. I don't necessarily even like TS% because of how it essentially equalizes 4-10 from three to 6-10 from two. 6-10 from two, especially from 0-10 feet, is more effective than 4-10 from range. The former is easier to offensive rebound for and produces 4 less potential fast break opportunities, while a missed 3 point shot is the worst miss in basketball because of how it can initiate the fast break.

I digress. Stats I like the most:

- Raw FGA and FG% broken down into 0-3 feet, 3-10 feet, 10-16 feet, 16-23 feet, 23 feet and beyond.

This illustrates how a player attacks and his efficiency in those areas, obviously. It will also tell us if player is generally taking good shots (his comfort zone/hot spots) or chucking/forcing. But it can better define the effectiveness of player than something like TS%. Example: Westbrook (2017, 32ppg) vs. Curry (2016, 31.5ppg). Last season, Curry's TS% was 125 points higher than Westbrook's TS this season. Russ is shooting a cool .427 from the field, but from 0-10 feet (the paint) he's shooting about 50% with 50% of his overall attempts coming in that area. By contrast, Curry only generated about 31% of his offense in the paint. Purely going by metrics such as TS% and PPS, Curry demolishes Westbrook in offensive efficiency, but when you consider where Russ generates his offense, his lack of efficiency won't be much of a detriment, since his offensive style prevents more fast break opportunities and is easier to offensive rebound for.

Point is, you can't just flat out declare one player more offensively effective by looking at TS% and PPP without considering where a player is operating from. I'd rather have a paint attacker than a shooter, even if the shooter has better offensive efficiency. Though there is a tipping point. I obviously wouldn't want a paint attacker with an egregiously low efficiency.

- FT%. Goes without saying.

- Freethrow Rate. Ditto.

- Turnovers. Pretty black and white stat. A player gave the other team the ball.

- Steals and blocks. These need to be supported by an eye test (if a player is gambling a lot for steals and blocks, he might produce a nice per game stat, but gave up a lot of easy looks in the process). Tells us how many times a player produced an extra possession for his team and how many times he prevented a shot attempt.

- Fouls. Underrated stat. A foul prone player who plays an important role can be a big detriment (i.e. Dwight Howard).

- Rebound rate.

/end stat diatribe

As for Gasol's numbers against playoff teams, I don't think 10ppg on 49% is bad for his price, role and age. I'm sure you've seen how poorly the more expensive Mozgov is playing, for example?

Who's the player I love? Parker? :lol

No. I'm just all in him. No other choice. House isn't a solution to that problem.

[midnightpulp]

Oh, team advanced stats are fine because they overcome the difficulty/near impossibility of trying to quantify individual effectiveness (using a variety of statistical guesstimate models that statisticians don't even agree on) in a game where the whole (team) is much, much greater than the sum of its parts.

You don't need to apply much inference to team stats. Spurs beat a team by 20, they are clearly +20 over that team over 48 played minutes.

[Arcadian]

I've been a Pau fan since his Vancouver Grizzlies days.

[tholdren]

There was never a time when Pau Gasol was the best player on the planet.......

:bobo

FIFY

[Seventyniner]

I've been a Pau fan since his Vancouver Grizzlies days.

He never played in Vancouver. The Grizzlies' first season in Memphis was Pau's rookie season.

[Arcadian]

He never played in Vancouver. The Grizzlies' first season in Memphis was Pau's rookie season.

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder747/37463747.jpg

[spursistan]

This soft giraffe needs to go and work on his free throws again..Dude is getting the Deandre treatment and it going to kill us in close playoffs games..he's been abysmal at the line this year (67%) and opposing coaches have taken notice......

[Darius Bieber]

1-6 FT shooting. Pathetic. Fuck him. Hope he never makes it back from Mexico.

[gambit1990]

In general, basketball "advanced stats" are garbage.

did you forget to read your original post?


MVPau has a +11 net rating (off 113, def 102), ranks 2nd on the team in raw BPM (not the best stat, admittedly), second in VORP, maintaining a healthy +1.84 RPM (a wonky stat, indeed), and averages a 23.5 PER against opposing centers who are averaging 17.5 PER against him.

[TheGreatYacht]

Truly the greatest 6th man in franchise history. Only Belinelli comes close.

http://airalamo.com/files/2016/10/9621104-pau-gasol-nba-preseason-san-antonio-spurs-orlando-magic.jpg

Pay that man...

[BillMc]

Pau could seriously be a 6MOY contender if he did this all season. Especially with fumblin', foul prone Dedmon playing like 9 minutes ahead of him. :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

Pau could seriously be a 6MOY contender if he did this all season. Especially with fumblin', foul prone Dedmon playing like 9 minutes ahead of him. :lol
:lol

[midnightpulp]

By far the best 6th man we have right now. :tu

[BillMc]

By far the best 6th man we have right now. :tu

Which is impressive considering we've got Patty, Lee, and Manu among others.

[baseline bum]

By far the best 6th man we have right now. :tu

I have wanted Gasol as a sixth man for years. He is incredible in that role.

[Robz4000]

At the end of the day he's still a soft piece of shit that can't defend.

[TheGreatYacht]

19/10/3 off the bench for the big man :tu

[Robz4000]

He was a big reason the Knicks got back into it tbh. Hernangomez raped him on both ends.

[SAGirl]

Pau could seriously be a 6MOY contender if he did this all season. Especially with fumblin', foul prone Dedmon playing like 9 minutes ahead of him. :lol
Still...
he ended up with just 3 for the game in 21 minutes...
Simmons ended up with 5 and should some minutes not have gone to Kyle he likely would have fouled out.

At the end of the day in the playoffs it probably doesn't matter bc neither guy would play enough minutes to be in danger of fouling out ... but it does diminish their contract values I think.

[SAGirl]

He was a big reason the Knicks got back into it tbh. Hernangomez raped him on both ends.
Yes...

[TheGreatYacht]

Pau was +15, Deadman was -3.

Who closed the game again?

[mudyez]

Am I the only one, that hates him bitching about every call and doing his raised hand thing when someone made a shot over him?

Always thought, that I just hated it, with him beeing on other teams, but now I even can't stand him as a Spur. I was never a hater. Not Tony, not Bonner, not Blair,..., maybe only a little bit Jefferson. But now I feel dirty.

[BillMc]

Pau was +15, Deadman was -3.

Who closed the game again?
:toast

[Arcadian]

Pau-erful Gasol

[stu scotts eye]

Mudyez,

Im with you. It is annoying watching him make that "are you kidding me" face after every shot made over, under, or around his heavy feet. I'm not hating either. I hope he helps us win a ship. But its OK to be annoyed at his constant pleas to the ref.

[Mr. Body]

Am I the only one, that hates him bitching about every call and doing his raised hand thing when someone made a shot over him?

Always thought, that I just hated it, with him beeing on other teams, but now I even can't stand him as a Spur. I was never a hater. Not Tony, not Bonner, not Blair,..., maybe only a little bit Jefferson. But now I feel dirty.

Fuck off, Duncan made those faces all the time.

[lefty]

Our best European playet

[Seventyniner]

Fuck off, Duncan made those faces all the time.

Exactly. Though that annoyed me too.

At least David "AND ONE!!!!!!!!" West is off the team now.