PTR On the Spurs Defense

[BillMc]

Really solid article on what is going on with the Spurs defense and what will likely happen in the playoffs.

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2017/1/16/14270668/spurs-excellent-defense-glaring-problem

Some interesting points.

They pin down why Kawh's defensive metrics are down this year. And it is not because offenses are isolating him as that CBS article said last month:


Last season, he defended an average of 9.4 shots per game; that number’s down just slightly, to 9.2, which suggests teams haven’t removed him from the equation. Beyond that, Leonard’s steal rate and block rate remain roughly what they have been in previous years.


The real issue is that Pop is, using his best defender to prop up his worst. Kawhi plays more minutes with Pau (828 (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612759/lineups-advanced/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=2&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*gasol)) and Parker (660 (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612759/lineups-advanced/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=2&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*parker)) than anyone else on the team. One reason his numbers look bad relative to Tony and Pau (who have a 103.7 defensive rating) (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612759/lineups-advanced/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=2): those two rarely play together without Kawhi on the floor. Out of the 638 minutes (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612759/lineups-advanced/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*parker:GROUP_NAME*E*gasol&GroupQuantity=2) the pair have spent together on the floor, only 78 (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612759/lineups-advanced/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*parker:GROUP_NAME*E*gasol:GROUP_NA ME*NE*leonard) have been without Leonard.
That’s important, because as mediocre as Parker and Gasol are individually, their deficiencies are compounded when teams attack them at the same time.

They also talk about what will likely happen in the playoffs with different lineups:


In 126 minutes of playing together (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612759/lineups-advanced/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=3&sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*leonard), the frontcourt trio of Leonard, Aldridge and Dedmon has a 95 defensive rating (and a 21.6 net rating). That’s a grouping we’ll very likely see more of in the postseason. Add Simmons to the mix (33 minutes thus far (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612759/lineups-advanced/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=4&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*dedmon:GROUP_NAME*E*leonard:GROUP_ NAME*E*simmons)) and that defensive rating goes down to 92.1 (while the offensive rating jumps up to 128.1). That fifth player can be either Parker or Mills and the Spurs are fine defensively, while getting something different out of each PG on the offensive end.
Put Dedmon and/or Aldridge behind Kawhi and you see him get a lot more aggressive on pick and rolls -- similar to how he played with Duncan behind him — and that’s where he can really change games. If he doesn’t blow the initial play up with his length, strength and speed, the Spurs’ more mobile bigs are able to buy Leonard enough time to recover and make a play.

[BillMc]

Having posted this I really hope this thread does not devolve into an anti-Tony or Pau thread.:lol

[Chinook]

I think PtR is being "optimistic" if it assumes Dedmon is going to get a lot of playoff burn. If Dewanye gets second-big minutes in a series, it's likely because the Spurs are down big and Pop is FINALLY willing to try something.

[Chinook]

Having posted this I really hope this thread does not devolve into an anti-Tony or Pau thread.:lol

Oh, and Tony and Parker are terrible and should be traded for Payton and Miles Plumlee. Include Fat Head and D-League too.

[BillMc]

Also was interesting talking about how the switching was great against the Dubs and got us killed by the Clips.

[BillMc]

I think PtR is being "optimistic" if it assumes Dedmon is going to get a lot of playoff burn. If Dewanye gets second-big minutes in a series, it's likely because the Spurs are down big and Pop is FINALLY willing to try something.

True. And if he does play will he collect fouls? And will he clog up the offense?.. there are reasons why Pop wants to stick with Pau.

[BillMc]

Oh, and Tony and Parker are terrible and should be traded for Payton and Miles Plumlee. Include Fat Head and D-League too.
Hoping you forgot the blue font. :lol

[UZER]

True. And if he does play will he collect fouls. And will he clog up the offense... there are reasons why Pop wants to stick with Pau.

I think alot of this has to do with reputation. I know Dedmon commits fouls, but I also think he has a rep for it. If pop played him more, and hes becomes a prominent consistent part of the teams minutes, refs will adjust and stop calling some of the ticky tac stuff they call on him, especially in the playoffs. But it has to start building now. Pop can't just expect to turn up minutes in the playoffs for someone who's been a scrub his entire career.

[MI21]

Yeah, it's almost like they have never watched the Spurs when they say Dedmon will get significantly run in the PO's. If anything, he might get less if Pop keeps his status quo from the last 6/7 seasons.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Dedmon has not played awfully lot with the other starters in place of Gasol, however the defensive rating of the starting unit + Dedmon is ridiculously bad. Can't draw conclusions but it's interesting.

[GSH]

That's a damn good article, Bill. Thanks for posting.

I know that people keep claiming that the Spurs have the #1 defense in the league. But they have to know that the Spurs don't have the best defense in the league - especially against certain teams. I don't "hate" Pau or Tony. (I'm actually really glad that the Spurs were able to sign Pau in the offseason.) I'm just realistic that I don't think they are enough to allow the Spurs to beat the better teams that they will meet in the playoffs, in 7 game series. And Pau's defense is a big part of that. A good defensive team really, really needs an anchor in the middle. Pau isn't that.

I'm glad that this writer had enough sense to correct the BS that Kawhi's defensive numbers somehow indicate that he is "hurting the team". Reading that was sort of like watching an episode of MythBusters - I don't know what the truth is, but I know that's not it. This article talks about how he is covering for the team's two worst defenders, and that fits with what we're seeing. You would expect Pop to be willing to sacrifice individual numbers, for the overall good of the team. It's what he's always done. That even makes sense, but it's a problem when the whole is still so watered down that it can't get the job done.

I know I've said it more than a few times, but: Pau and Tony are good enough for most nights and most teams. Good enough to let the Spurs rack up a very good regular season record. Against teams with the personnel and coaching to exploit their weaknesses? (Meaning the teams still standing after the first round of the playoffs.) Everything would have to align perfectly for them to make it to the Finals - much less win the Championship. That's not hate, and it's not pessimism. I'm not "failing to support my team". It's just my best assessment of what this team has to work with.

The good news is, if they can upgrade those two positions, they have one hell of a core. (Maybe Murray grows up fast, and becomes the PG version of Kawhi - the overachiever that lasted too long in the draft.) I've lobbied for quite a while that Simmons is underrated and underappreciated here. He's been much better on defense than most people seem to think - some nights he's come in and really changed the tempo of the game with his D. This writer also gives LMA credit for his defense, which is sadly missing here on ST.

[HarlemHeat37]

I was probably the first poster to mention Dedmon in the off-season, he was my first choice and I've been a fan for a while, but you're delusional if you think he will play significant playoff minutes, tbh:lol..Pop's trust is an obstacle, as is his tendency to be a foul machine..he's a 15MPG big that might be able to give 20 if everything is going smoothly..

They're also delusional if they think Simmons will play serious minutes..he's a turnover machine that can't function in the half court, most of his damage is done against 2nd and 3rd stringers + garbage time..wouldn't be shocked if Anderson takes his spot by the playoffs..

[james evans]

Yeah, it's almost like they have never watched the Spurs when they say Dedmon will get significantly run in the PO's. If anything, he might get less if Pop keeps his status quo from the last 6/7 seasons.
exactly. How he's coaching now is exactly how he's gonna coach in the playoffs. He's not gonna use the best lineups possible, he's gonna use his veterans

[GSH]

I was probably the first poster to mention Dedmon in the off-season, he was my first choice and I've been a fan for a while, but you're delusional if you think he will play significant playoff minutes, tbh:lol..Pop's trust is an obstacle, as is his tendency to be a foul machine..he's a 15MPG big that might be able to give 20 if everything is going smoothly..

They're also delusional if they think Simmons will play serious minutes..he's a turnover machine that can't function in the half court, most of his damage is done against 2nd and 3rd stringers + garbage time..wouldn't be shocked if Anderson takes his spot by the playoffs..


You were consistent about hoping Dedmon could be signed. I still disagree with you about Simmons. Especially disagree that he won't see minutes in the playoffs. I don't think Pop has any choice. We'll meet back here in June and talk about it. :toast

[HarlemHeat37]

You were consistent about hoping Dedmon could be signed. I still disagree with you about Simmons. Especially disagree that he won't see minutes in the playoffs. I don't think Pop has any choice. We'll meet back here in June and talk about it. :toast

I think he'll see minutes, but I'd bet that it won't be a substantial amount..

[UZER]

We all know Pop doesnt give a horse's ass about any of this and will continue to play Manu/Parker and Pau in crunch time. He'll wait until the second half of an elimination game.

[sasaint]

I think alot of this has to do with reputation. I know Dedmon commits fouls, but I also think he has a rep for it. If pop played him more, and hes becomes a prominent consistent part of the teams minutes, refs will adjust and stop calling some of the ticky tac stuff they call on him, especially in the playoffs. But it has to start building now. Pop can't just expect to turn up minutes in the playoffs for someone who's been a scrub his entire career.

:toast

[RD2191]

Pop probably won't even play dedmon until we're in an elimination game. Same old story as tiago and cojo to a lesser extent.

[spursistan]

Mainstream Spurs blogs-- PtR and the now defunct 48 minutes of Hell-- are no different from national/local media in their uncritical stance and total obeisance to Pop as this kind of infallible coaching deity despite his recent dismal playoffs performances..

Like many have said, Dedmon and Bertans won't gain the trust of Poop until this team is staring down elimination..We have seen this fuckin movie before..

And the worshiping at the altar of our washed-up coach will continue, nonetheless..:sleep

[GSH]

I think he'll see minutes, but I'd bet that it won't be a substantial amount..


Well you could be right. I said the same thing about Kyle last year. The biggest thing, IMO, is that the team really has to have some foot speed on the floor - especially at the wing. I could write a couple of paragraphs, but you know that much is true.

As for Simmons' turnovers? I don't think Anderson is an upgrade in that department. 82games has a "hands rating" stat. Yeah, I know, no stat is perfect. But it at least gives a look to turnovers and offensive fouls. Simmons' hands rating is better than Anderson. Simmons gets to the FT line a LOT more than Anderson (one of my pet stats) - like twice as often. Simmons dishes out more AST's, and gets almost as many blocks. Really, the only place Anderson is better is in rebounding, which sort of reinforces what I keep saying about Kyle not being a 2.

So what does that leave? Right now, at least, Manu doesn't look up to getting extended minutes. Increase Danny's minutes? Murray at the 2? Actually I kind of like Murray at the 2, but not this year.

I've learned not to think I can predict what Pop might do. But unless the Spurs make an acquisition before the deadline, I don't see how Simmons can fail to get some significant minutes.

BTW - Dedmon wasn't even on my radar before I started reading your posts about signing him. If he was on anyone else's radar before that, they weren't talking about it. He's looking like one hell of an offseason steal right about now. Definitely a piece the Spurs needed, and I don't know who they could have actually gotten who would have been as good.

[spursistan]

To be honest, Dedmon playing time is the least of my worries. Right now, I am not even sure Kawhi will play 35 MPG in the playoffs vs the other contenders..

This is the same senile coach who let Kawhi and Green chill next to him on the sideline as Durant -- leading OKC 2nd unit-- was destroying our hapless bench..

[will_spurs]

We'll meet back here in June and talk about it. :toast

You two still talking about it in June sounds like a best-case scenario to me :)

[GSH]

You two still talking about it in June sounds like a best-case scenario to me :)


:toast There are several things that I will happily be wrong about, too.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

If Pau sees any time in the final minutes of a playoff game the Spurs are doomed. He might be the laziest defender for a big that the Spurs have had in I don't even know how many years.

I agree a lot with GSH



I know that people keep claiming that the Spurs have the #1 defense in the league. But they have to know that the Spurs don't have the best defense in the league - especially against certain teams. I don't "hate" Pau or Tony. (I'm actually really glad that the Spurs were able to sign Pau in the offseason.) I'm just realistic that I don't think they are enough to allow the Spurs to beat the better teams that they will meet in the playoffs, in 7 game series. And Pau's defense is a big part of that. A good defensive team really, really needs an anchor in the middle. Pau isn't that.


I also find their defensive ranking absolutely baffling because more often than not they fail the eye test. It's always a layup drill and if they are going up against any decent bigs or anyone remotely athletic the Spurs tend to suffer a lot.

I don't get how Spurs are okay closing the game out with a very slow when Dedmon is the one the deters other teams from attacking the rim. What little Pau gets on the offensive is negated tenfold on the defensive end.

[HarlemHeat37]

^^
The reason SA's defense looks worse than its overall ranking is because there has been a colossal defensive drop-off, league-wide, this season..

Utah is ranked #1 with a defensive rating of 104, this season..last year's #1 defense had a 99 rating..if you put the 2016-2017 Jazz in the 2015-2016 season, their defense would be ranked 8h..

[gambit1990]

https://j.gifs.com/mwknoR.gif

[Amuseddaysleeper]

^^
The reason SA's defense looks worse than its overall ranking is because there has been a colossal defensive drop-off, league-wide, this season..

Utah is ranked #1 with a defensive rating of 104, this season..last year's #1 defense had a 99 rating..if you put the 2016-2017 Jazz in the 2015-2016 season, their defense would be ranked 8h..

:tu

[Chinook]

https://j.gifs.com/mwknoR.gif

Parker tripped, but the actual breakdown was on Pau/LMA. Gasol was supposed to come out instead with Green filling in for him. But LMA moved up when he was "one pass away", which gave them no ability to rotate to help him.

[BillMc]

That's a damn good article, Bill. Thanks for posting.

I know that people keep claiming that the Spurs have the #1 defense in the league. But they have to know that the Spurs don't have the best defense in the league - especially against certain teams. I don't "hate" Pau or Tony. (I'm actually really glad that the Spurs were able to sign Pau in the offseason.) I'm just realistic that I don't think they are enough to allow the Spurs to beat the better teams that they will meet in the playoffs, in 7 game series. And Pau's defense is a big part of that. A good defensive team really, really needs an anchor in the middle. Pau isn't that.

I'm glad that this writer had enough sense to correct the BS that Kawhi's defensive numbers somehow indicate that he is "hurting the team". Reading that was sort of like watching an episode of MythBusters - I don't know what the truth is, but I know that's not it. This article talks about how he is covering for the team's two worst defenders, and that fits with what we're seeing. You would expect Pop to be willing to sacrifice individual numbers, for the overall good of the team. It's what he's always done. That even makes sense, but it's a problem when the whole is still so watered down that it can't get the job done.

I know I've said it more than a few times, but: Pau and Tony are good enough for most nights and most teams. Good enough to let the Spurs rack up a very good regular season record. Against teams with the personnel and coaching to exploit their weaknesses? (Meaning the teams still standing after the first round of the playoffs.) Everything would have to align perfectly for them to make it to the Finals - much less win the Championship. That's not hate, and it's not pessimism. I'm not "failing to support my team". It's just my best assessment of what this team has to work with.

The good news is, if they can upgrade those two positions, they have one hell of a core. (Maybe Murray grows up fast, and becomes the PG version of Kawhi - the overachiever that lasted too long in the draft.) I've lobbied for quite a while that Simmons is underrated and underappreciated here. He's been much better on defense than most people seem to think - some nights he's come in and really changed the tempo of the game with his D. This writer also gives LMA credit for his defense, which is sadly missing here on ST.

Nice post man. :toast I think we see the same thing, the difference is whether we think its a fatal flaw or not regarding Tony and Pau. And I completely agree with your point on Simmons. His defense has come a long way. And LMA deserves a lot more love on here. He was never known for his d in Portland and he's really put in the effort since coming to SA. As a matter of fact LMA has sacrificed money (Portland could have paid him more), stats, and being the alpha dog to come be on a winner. And I haven't seen much diva from him. He deserves a lot of ST love, tbh.

If Murray has even 80% the trajectory of Kawhi. Watch out. :flag:

[GSH]

Nice post man. :toast I think we see the same thing, the difference is whether we think its a fatal flaw or not regarding Tony and Pau.


I've been wrong before. Twice, I think. :lol


Some people here have good points. I guess comparing the Spurs' defense to past Spurs' defenses doesn't mean much. Looking at the other teams, the Spurs are still better than most. When it comes to playoffs, though, I'd still rather think the Spurs were counting on riding a smothering D. It's not going to happen. I might as well just get used to it.

[Brazil]

:lol that's exactly what a lot of people in ST are saying for weeks

- Kawhi did not regress defensively significantly anyway
- Kawhi numbers are heavily impacted by the fact he is playing without Tim Duncan
- Kawhi is playing with a SL with Pau and Tony, LMA D is underrated but he is no Duncan even 40 y/o Duncan
- Spurs D is among the best this year but significantly worst than last year like the rest of the NBA
- Dedmon impact on D is huge as highlighted a lot here

also as said, I doubt Dedmon and Simmons see a lot of minutes in POs

[SpursforSix]

:lol that's exactly what a lot of people in ST are saying for weeks

- Kawhi did not regress defensively significantly anyway
- Kawhi numbers are heavily impacted by the fact he is playing without Tim Duncan
- Kawhi is playing with a SL with Pau and Tony, LMA D is underrated but he is no Duncan even 40 y/o Duncan
- Spurs D is among the best this year but significantly worst than last year like the rest of the NBA
- Dedmon impact on D is huge as highlighted a lot here

also as said, I doubt Dedmon and Simmons see a lot of minutes in POs

I agree with you that it seems to fall on Parker.

[Brazil]

I agree with you that it seems to fall on Parker.

Stick with what you do best.... trolling avante and creating weird thread in the club that nobody gives a fuck about tbh

[SpursforSix]

Stick with what you do best.... trolling avante and creating weird thread in the club that nobody gives a fuck about tbh

So you think Parker is worth his salary?

[GSH]

I agree with you that it seems to fall on Parker.


Stick with what you do best.... trolling avante and creating weird thread in the club that nobody gives a fuck about tbh


LMAO, Brazil - "Don't you fucking agree with me, troll!" :lol

[YGWHI]

:lol that's exactly what a lot of people in ST are saying for weeks

- Kawhi did not regress defensively significantly anyway
- Kawhi numbers are heavily impacted by the fact he is playing without Tim Duncan
- Kawhi is playing with a SL with Pau and Tony, LMA D is underrated but he is no Duncan even 40 y/o Duncan
- Spurs D is among the best this year but significantly worst than last year like the rest of the NBA
- Dedmon impact on D is huge as highlighted a lot here

also as said, I doubt Dedmon and Simmons see a lot of minutes in POs

Every wing defender gets his defense affected by the lack of decent rim protector.

A a good wing defender will:

1-play the line pass

2-deny his man the ball

3-contest his man's shots

4-forced his man to the weak hand

5-funnel him down to his team-rim protector.

So it's not about Tim, it's about the guy who is replacing Tim.

Spurs lost a great defender in the paint but the new guy isn't even decent to good. They could have signed a better defender to complete the starting five but looked for an offensive big.

[YGWHI]

Also was interesting talking about how the switching was great against the Dubs and got us killed by the Clips.
Thanks for posting the article :tu

The switching also killed us against Cavs on the road last regular season.

LeBron finished at the rim a lot wih Mills and Manu defending him because Kyle and Boris switched on their guards, Cavs exploted mismatches with Spurs switching.

I'm not a big fan of switching in every play against every team. We have the best perimter defensive duo in the league and letting our bigs switching in their guys, anulate our advantage in the perimeter on defense.

[MaNu4Tres]

^^
The reason SA's defense looks worse than its overall ranking is because there has been a colossal defensive drop-off, league-wide, this season..

Utah is ranked #1 with a defensive rating of 104, this season..last year's #1 defense had a 99 rating..if you put the 2016-2017 Jazz in the 2015-2016 season, their defense would be ranked 8h..

More teams are shooting more threes, which leads to more points per possession in the long run across the board. That's why we are seeing a spike in points or points per 100 possessions.

[YGWHI]

exactly. How he's coaching now is exactly how he's gonna coach in the playoffs. He's not gonna use the best lineups possible

Agree. It was the same thing with him in last playofffs.

In last season, we said here "Bobo and DWest are having rebounding issues but it's just regular season, in playoffs Pop won't put them together and will play LMA more minutes with Bobo or West depending who is having the better night..."

Guess what? Pop played Bobo-West together like he did in the regular season and they get outplayed by OKC bigs.

Pop won't change his lineups in playoffs until the elimination game and that will cost the Spurs other loss in playoffs.

[GSH]

More teams are shooting more threes, which leads to more points per possession in the long run across the board. That's why we are seeing a spike in points or points per 100 possessions.


I hadn't looked since early in the season. I knew the 3PA were up, but damn. Just a quick glance - it looks like teams are taking about 2.5-3 more 3PA's per game, from top to bottom. That's a big increase. Looks like pace is up overall, too.

One thing that hasn't changed so much is FG% and 3P%. But they're definitely jacking up a lot more 3's than they used to. Today's NBA, I guess.

[cd98]

Having posted this I really hope this thread does not devolve into an anti-Tony or Pau thread.:lol

Per Lowe, with Pau and Tony in the line up, they are no 5 defense in the league. If Spurs fans hate on those guys for defense it's bc they were going to do it no matter what the stats say.

[Ice009]

The whole point to me about finishing games with Gasol is that he doesn't really provide much offense, so why isn't Dedmon closing games with his superior defense? Overall, Gasol is the much better offensive player, but at the end of games, his offense doesn't really come into play. It doesn't make sense closing games with him.

[GSH]

The whole point to me about finishing games with Gasol is that he doesn't really provide much offense, so why isn't Dedmon closing games with his superior defense? Overall, Gasol is the much better offensive player, but at the end of games, his offense doesn't really come into play. It doesn't make sense closing games with him.

Pau - 12 PPG, 16 points per/36 minutes. Against starters.
Dedmon - 4.7 PPG, 11 points/36 minutes. Mostly against subs.

Pau scores at a better pace than Dedmon. Much as I hate to mention it, when Pau does drop out to the 3P line, he's shooting 46%. (Averaging about 1 attempt per game.) Pau is more of a scoring threat than Dedmon. It's his lousy-ass defense that's a problem at the end of a close game.

[cd98]

But again Pau and Tony with other starters are around no 5 in the league on defense. He's not good at pick n roll d, but Pau is long so he does provide some rim protection (and Tim wasn't good against PNR last year either). But Pau shoots 50% from long 2s, over 40% from 3, and he is a great passer. So I can see the Spurs gambling with his D to take advantage of his offensive skills in a close game. Obviously it also depends on the team and matchups.

[YGWHI]

But again Pau and Tony with other starters are around no 5 in the league on defense. He's not good at pick n roll d, but Pau is long so he does provide some rim protection (and Tim wasn't good against PNR last year either). But Pau shoots 50% from long 2s, over 40% from 3, and he is a great passer. So I can see the Spurs gambling with his D to take advantage of his offensive skills in a close game. Obviously it also depends on the team and matchups.

A recipe for disaster.

Look at the last play against Suns. For a stupid reason they gave the ball to him, he won't make the last shot and it's likely he'll miss his FTs if he gets fouled.

No, I wouldn't close playoffs games with three vet players like Parker, Manu and Gasol together on the court, it can't be good... Choose one of them but not the three.

[SnakeBoy]

Oh, and Tony and Parker are terrible and should be traded for Payton and Miles Plumlee. Include Fat Head and D-League too.

Tony is terrible but not Parker. Trade Tony but keep Parker.

[YGWHI]

821184971993845760
This play is similar to last Spurs play against Bucks, drive and dish...Manu missed his shot. Sure, Danny missed other shots, Bertans too. But I like Spurs chance with an open Danny/Davis' shot over a tired Manu's.

If Pau wasn't fouled, he would have passed Manu the ball to shoot the 3...? Two close games in a week with a last Manu' shot. Like it's 2005?? Like the previous Bucks game wasn't happened?
820444535821975552

820441552833024001
Not a knock on Manu. But it's pretty obvious that old players get tired at the end of the games. They can't make the shots they usually do, they can't beat their man, can't run back to defend after a turnover...Can't compete against elite teams in playoffs with 3 slow guys together.
Pop should stop relying on them at the end of games.

[Ice009]

Pau - 12 PPG, 16 points per/36 minutes. Against starters.
Dedmon - 4.7 PPG, 11 points/36 minutes. Mostly against subs.

Pau scores at a better pace than Dedmon. Much as I hate to mention it, when Pau does drop out to the 3P line, he's shooting 46%. (Averaging about 1 attempt per game.) Pau is more of a scoring threat than Dedmon. It's his lousy-ass defense that's a problem at the end of a close game.

Maybe you're not getting what I'm saying. I'm saying Pau does hardly any scoring at the end of games, so why finish games with him? He scores more of his points earlier in the game. He doesn't do much on offense the last 5 minutes of the game and he's also a liability to miss free throws. No reason to close games with him over Dedmon.


A recipe for disaster.

Look at the last play against Suns. For a stupid reason they gave the ball to him, he won't make the last shot and it's likely he'll miss his FTs if he gets fouled.

No, I wouldn't close playoffs games with three vet players like Parker, Manu and Gasol together on the court, it can't be good... Choose one of them but not the three.

This is exactly what I'm saying.

[Brazil]

So you think Parker is worth his salary?

I think basketball talk is not your strength.. your stuff is being a weirdo and troll avante.. thats what you are good at

[Brazil]

Every wing defender gets his defense affected by the lack of decent rim protector.

A a good wing defender will:

1-play the line pass

2-deny his man the ball

3-contest his man's shots

4-forced his man to the weak hand

5-funnel him down to his team-rim protector.

So it's not about Tim, it's about the guy who is replacing Tim.

Spurs lost a great defender in the paint but the new guy isn't even decent to good. They could have signed a better defender to complete the starting five but looked for an offensive big.

:lol I see we are perfectly in line and we agree with each other tbh :tu

[Chinook]

Tony is terrible but not Parker. Trade Tony but keep Parker.

I'd love to have Jabari on the team

[BillMc]

But again Pau and Tony with other starters are around no 5 in the league on defense. He's not good at pick n roll d, but Pau is long so he does provide some rim protection (and Tim wasn't good against PNR last year either). But Pau shoots 50% from long 2s, over 40% from 3, and he is a great passer. So I can see the Spurs gambling with his D to take advantage of his offensive skills in a close game. Obviously it also depends on the team and matchups.

This is exactly it. Dedmon does nothing on O other than lobs and playoff teams will figure that out too. From another PTR article:


With the Spurs, Pau’s shooting percentage is almost back to his pre-Bulls numbers. Playing in a real offense helps. He is now shooting 51% from the floor, leading all Spurs who play 20+ minutes per game, even after the altitude (or something) led to a pretty terrible game by Pau against Los Suns in Mexico City. Note that he is also shooting over 46% from the three point line, something he didn’t really do before coming to the Spurs.Even though his minutes are down from his Laker heyday and his last year with the Bulls, Gasol is putting up remarkable similar numbers on a 36 minute basis: 17 points, 11 boards, 3.9 assists and 1.7 blocks. One of the amazing things about the Great Duncan was his amazing consistency over the years. While Gasol is not a perfect replacement for TD – no one could be --Pau is what some would call a “reasonable facsimile”. Put another way, Gasol is the best the Spurs could have gotten to try to replace the irreplaceable, and he has fit in well.

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2017/1/16/14288094/its-time-to-remember-how-awesome-danny-green-is

Not saying we don't need to play Dedmon, but I do think people are making too much of him because he is new and he makes up for a weakness of Pau's, without considering what strength's of Gasol's are lost. Grass is greener effect to some degree. Not sure what the answer is, maybe Pop isn't sure either. Of course, that's what the regular season is for.

[cd98]

This is exactly it. Dedmon does nothing on O other than lobs and playoff teams will figure that out too. From another PTR article:



http://www.poundingtherock.com/2017/1/16/14288094/its-time-to-remember-how-awesome-danny-green-is

Not saying we don't need to play Dedmon, but I do think people are making too much of him because he is new. Grass is greener effect to some degree. Not sure what the answer is, maybe Pop isn't sure either. Of course, that's what the regular season is for. Agreed. Spurs aren't going to Pau for the last shot of the game, necessarily. But by the numbers, if Kawhi is doubled and he has to pass it out to a shooter, you would want Pau taking that shot before you would want Dedmon doing it. In fact, by the numbers, you'd want Pau taking that shot before a lot of the more popular guys on the Spurs.

[NameLess Scrub]

I hadn't looked since early in the season. I knew the 3PA were up, but damn. Just a quick glance - it looks like teams are taking about 2.5-3 more 3PA's per game, from top to bottom. That's a big increase. Looks like pace is up overall, too.

One thing that hasn't changed so much is FG% and 3P%. But they're definitely jacking up a lot more 3's than they used to. Today's NBA, I guess.

We used to play a lot of the original NBA JAM back in the 90s, when Pippen/Grant were Chicago's team, Hardaway/Mullin were the Warriors, and Mourning/Johnson were the Hornets.

The game was designed to dunk a lot, but the kid who used the Hornets decided to shoot 3s almost exclusively. My brother grabbed the Warriors to counter. I stuck with the Bulls, playing hard defense and taking high percentage shots.

It was very hard to beat them, as of course 3 is more than 2, and we also learned how to push players on the air, so all dunks had to be regular, short dunks. I had to take more mid range jumpers too.

As the world goes around, the NBA is now played like NBA Jam in the 90s was played in my neighborhood.

Probably a completely useless story, but well.. I'm posting it anyway. Probably not the first time :lol

[I. Hustle]

We used to play a lot of the original NBA JAM back in the 90s, when Pippen/Grant were Chicago's team, Hardaway/Mullin were the Warriors, and Mourning/Johnson were the Hornets.

The game was designed to dunk a lot, but the kid who used the Hornets decided to shoot 3s almost exclusively. My brother grabbed the Warriors to counter. I stuck with the Bulls, playing hard defense and taking high percentage shots.

It was very hard to beat them, as of course 3 is more than 2, and we also learned how to push players on the air, so all dunks had to be regular, short dunks. I had to take more mid range jumpers too.

As the world goes around, the NBA is now played like NBA Jam in the 90s was played in my neighborhood.

Probably a completely useless story, but well.. I'm posting it anyway. Probably not the first time :lol

Nah dude. It makes perfect sense. I get it. Like right now, I fight exclusively like Eddy Gordo because that is what people who didn't know how to play Tekken used whenever they started playing. They would just spin and shit and would catch you with some lucky shit.

Capoeira is the only style I use now.

[NameLess Scrub]

Nah dude. It makes perfect sense. I get it. Like right now, I fight exclusively like Eddy Gordo because that is what people who didn't know how to play Tekken used whenever they started playing. They would just spin and shit and would catch you with some lucky shit.

Capoeira is the only still I use now.

:lol:lol

Button mashing FTW.

[UZER]

We used to play a lot of the original NBA JAM back in the 90s, when Pippen/Grant were Chicago's team, Hardaway/Mullin were the Warriors, and Mourning/Johnson were the Hornets.

The game was designed to dunk a lot, but the kid who used the Hornets decided to shoot 3s almost exclusively. My brother grabbed the Warriors to counter. I stuck with the Bulls, playing hard defense and taking high percentage shots.

It was very hard to beat them, as of course 3 is more than 2, and we also learned how to push players on the air, so all dunks had to be regular, short dunks. I had to take more mid range jumpers too.

As the world goes around, the NBA is now played like NBA Jam in the 90s was played in my neighborhood.

Probably a completely useless story, but well.. I'm posting it anyway. Probably not the first time :lol

I used the warriors for that exact reason. The Pistons were another team that could drain with Thomas and Dumars.