Will Pop Rely More On Inexperience In Playoffs?

[TD 21]

Though still a ways off, I'm always thinking big picture. The stock answer is no, but I think we might actually see it because they're extreme underdogs, so the pressure it not what it usually is . . .

- Pop's loyalty is overstated. While true that he had more experienced players to turn to, he slashed Duncan's and Parker's minutes and started to go away from the big 3 as sure fire close game closers last season, dropped Diaw to fourth big and finally fringe rotation status by season's end and buried Bonner on the deep bench

- This year, to a certain extent, he'll have to rely on inexperience more, as that's all they have past the top 8 and given his micromanaging of minutes, he's not sticking to a strict 8 man rotation

- The game has evolved the past few years to the point where low or no volume three-point shooting, slow footed bigs like Gasol, have become marginalized, especially against teams like the Rockets, Warriors and Cavaliers, which is probably going to be their exact path

- Ginobili has dropped another level to the point where, in the games where he doesn't have it, he's no longer being force fed 20-25 minutes

- Unlike recent seasons, they haven't had a weapon like Bertans on the deep bench. If the defense can't slow the Rockets and Warriors enough to give the methodical offense a chance (a virtual certainty against the latter), he's the natural counter

[TheGreatYacht]

Simmons will be placed in the doghouse later due to a dunk, and he will trot out Fathead when it matters. You know it's coming

Durant won't see that 0.47MPH slomo-shake-pass-out-to-a-contested-guy move coming

[Robz4000]

No, he'll stick to his guns until the end. The main reasons we saw some differentiation last year was because of the presence of West and Duncan's rapid decline. This year he'll feel obligated to give Gasol 30+ minutes even if he is a massive negative just like he did West, and we won't see Bertans until it's far too late. I've seen this song and dance way too much to assume otherwise.

[apalisoc_9]

Juding from this year's sometimes unexplainable rotation, i think pop is more than ready and willing to allow "inexperienced players" play a role depending on matchups and specific needs based on that specific series.

However, he's not going to play simmons extended minutes or anderson extended minutes.

Playing the "inexperienced" player largely depends on specific skillsets and Dedmon and Bertans are the only two guys that have specific talents that is absent from the more experienced players (Gasol-Lee-Aldridge)

Yes or No ansswer...he won't do anything if its between simmons/Anderson vs Ginobili/Green.

[ElNono]

Tim lost minutes last playoffs to West... and due to injury... doesn't really strike me as inexperience....

He'll go to war with the guys that brought him there. Manu nowadays, plays 25 mins on good nights, and as low as 10-15 mins on bad nights. That should stay the same (provided Simms keeps looking like an average player).

The rest of the rotation shouldn't change much, barring injury. I do expect him to go more to Dedmon against big frontlines (like today), but he's been doing that anyways.

[SAGirl]

I expect experimentation through the season bc if there's a guy injured you need your young guys to be serviceable.

In the playoffs Pop will stick to his 10 guys and shorten that rotation, or minutes, if needed. With the vets he has being inconsistent and capable of TOSB looking nights, maybe others Get more minutes but these others should be guys already in the rotation.

I only see Davis or any other youngster making a playoff appearance if there's foul trouble, injuries or a blowout.. maybe like the CoJo of 2014, Baynes, etc.

[MultiTroll]

If he has to go against the likes of Doc Rivers* and Billy Donovan again i don't see how you can expect so much from Pop.

The likely hood that he will overplay Parker Pau and GNob -even when they are getting killed and Manu is having an Alzheimers attack? Huge. Book it Dano.

*Throw in Austin Rivers and i cmon.

[MultiTroll]

- Unlike recent seasons, they haven't had a weapon like Bertans on the deep bench. If the defense can't slow the Rockets and Warriors enough to give the methodical offense a chance (a virtual certainty against the latter), he's the natural counter
I remember Gary Neal firing freaking bullets vs Miami in Giveaway Finals. I think it got him benched.

[Splits]

I remember Gary Neal firing freaking bullets vs Miami in Giveaway Finals. I think it got him benched.

Too bad Manu's 8 turnovers and clutch missed FT didn't get him benched...

[cd98]

What does this even mean? Will he play the rookies? Not much. Look at the last 5 times to win a title. How many had rookies playing huge minutes in the playoffs?

[Chinook]

If Pop doesn't think he can get by with his main guys, he'll probably look for a vet wing/guard for the last spot. I don't think he's particularly worried about having to play Simmons or Anderson in big games at this point, but he's likely not going to be forced into it. With the way this post-season is looking, there will be a lot of guys who might be looking to ring-chase. While I hope they use the slot on a prospect unless someone like Evans wants to come to SA, they will have options.

[YGWHI]

How many had rookies playing huge minutes in the playoffs?

Dedmon isn't a rookie...in the strict sense of the word. I'd be happy if at least Pop put him there in the last 2 minutes if the other team is killing Pau with their guards in P&Rs

[YGWHI]

This year he'll feel obligated to give Gasol 30+ minutes even if he is a massive negative just like he did West, and we won't see Bertans until it's far too late. I've seen this song and dance way too much to assume otherwise.
Pretty much this

[Mikeanaro]

He should, thats what saved tonight´s game and not Porker playing 30 minutes when he is not the answer (sometimes he is but its the coach job to figure out the best lineups against every team)
Danny wasnt the answer either... Gasol brrrrrrrrr, David Lee Dedmon Patty were the saviors and thats a fart on Pop´s face I dont know why.

[gambit1990]

pop should be experimenting NOW.

[100%duncan]

No. Kawhi and LMA 1-2 punch but we will still go as far as manu and tony take us. For better or for worse.

[cd98]

Pretty much this He'll see minutes. Pop has never completely benched solid bigs off the bench that have some NBA experience. Maybe Dedmon will have to prove in the minutes he gets in the playoffs that he is ready so that he can get an increase in minutes. That said, green guys like Betrans and Murray won't see the light of day unless something goes horribly wrong or the Spurs are up by 30 in the 4th.

[Brazil]

Nope

[AFMadison]

No, he'll stick to his guns until the end. The main reasons we saw some differentiation last year was because of the presence of West and Duncan's rapid decline. This year he'll feel obligated to give Gasol 30+ minutes even if he is a massive negative just like he did West, and we won't see Bertans until it's far too late. I've seen this song and dance way too much to assume otherwise.
I see Bertans being kinda similar to how Belinelli was for us in '14. Comes in, hits some big 3s, only Bertans has better size and defense.

[GSH]

Will Pop rely on inexperience more in the playoffs? Well let's see. Duncan had 18 years of experience, Diaw and West both had 12. They're all gone, and have been replaced with less-experienced players.

Simmons has 1 year of NBA experience, KA has 2 years, and Dedmon has 3 years. None of the three of them got a hell of a lot of minutes in those seasons. In addition to that, the Spurs have 3 NBA rookies on the roster.

So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that Pop will have to rely more in inexperienced players in the playoffs. I'm not trying to be a smartass. (It just comes naturally.) I'm just saying that it's pretty much unavoidable.

[itzsoweezee]

This is all wishful thinking. Teams don't go through training camp, practices, and 80+ games playing one way and then completely change up their style of play. Only a completely desperate team would do that.

[cd98]

This is all wishful thinking. Teams don't go through training camp, practices, and 80+ games playing one way and then completely change up their style of play. Only a completely desperate team would do that.

Teams do shorten their rotations in the playoffs and guys play heavier minutes. The Spurs will go 11 deep during the regular season, but I could see them going 9 deep in the playoffs.

[alpha_HaZE]

Pop treats reg season as an extended training camp. I am sure he will give the youngsters time and plenty of opportunities to grow both inside and outside the court. I am really excited to see Dejounte develop, Danny and others have spoken highly of him and Timmy has taken him under his wing so to speak. Davis is also another intriguing young player. I think Pop would play him in round 1 against the right opponent to see what they have got to offer.

I think he will keep playing Dedmon, Simmons, and Lee like he has all season. Not so sure about Kyle, however I could see him getting minutes against the warriors, he did a good job guarding KD last year.

[itzsoweezee]

Teams do shorten their rotations in the playoffs and guys play heavier minutes. The Spurs will go 11 deep during the regular season, but I could see them going 9 deep in the playoffs.

I understand that, and that is consistent with what I'm saying. But other people are expecting bench guys to supplant Spurs' starters. That's definitely not going to happen. Pau and Parker are going to get major minutes in any playoff series. On the other hand, Bertrans will probably only get minutes if there's a blowout.

[spursistan]

Yeah, that didn't take long..

How the fuck does Murray go from producing +10 PT/+20MPG for an entire week to 2 straight DNPs?

[MultiTroll]

This is all wishful thinking. Teams don't go through training camp, practices, and 80+ games playing one way and then completely change up their style of play. Only a completely desperate team would do that.
Oh he's done it before.
2006's all but ours repeat had Tall Balls going 63-19 for #1 seed.
1st round rolling of Sacramento 4-2.
Then Popped decides to get cutesy vs Dallas with Michael Finley at the PF spot *locking down* Dirks ABitchsky. Benched Nazr and Rasho Nest. Got cornholed 4-3 on the infamous Manu f up. Should have never gotten anywhere close to that.

Worked by rookie coach Avery Johnson.

[MaNu4Tres]

Yeah, that didn't take long..

How the fuck does Murray go from producing +10 PT/+20MPG for an entire week to 2 straight DNPs?

It wouldn't be fair to the team..

Just like when Pop wouldnt play Splitter over Bonner and Blair in 2011.

Same thing with Murray and Parker and Mills.

[cd98]

Playoff basketball is not the same as regular season basketball. People have a little too much faith in believing that Murray and Bertans can turn up their games a few notches in the playoffs. Rookies generally disappear in the playoffs unless they are Tim Duncans. Murray and Bertans are not Tim Duncans. So I don't see them getting much, if any, floor time, though I could see Bertans getting more floor time than Murray.

[MaNu4Tres]

Playoff basketball is not the same as regular season basketball. People have a little too much faith in believing that Murray and Bertans can turn up their games a few notches in the playoffs. Rookies generally disappear in the playoffs unless they are Tim Duncans. Murray and Bertans are not Tim Duncans. So I don't see them getting much, if any, floor time, though I could see Bertans getting more floor time than Murray.

Such a dumb myth. " Rookies generally disappear in the playoffs". What a terrible and dumb take.

If a rookie disappears in the playoffs its because he's not in the top 10 in the rotation or if Pop just sits him for no other reason than .. " It's not fair to the others".

If a player is good enough, he's good enough -- rookie or veteran. Now if they perform well in the short sample size of "A" playoff run -- that's another story and a by product of randomness and variance. Because at the same time, there's a lot of veterans who shit the bed or disappear in the playoffs too from time to time ( you saw it last year with a lot of vets). Robert Horry even has shit the bed on multiple occasions in the playoffs for the Spurs and Lakers. However, his career was filled with 15 years of deep playoff runs year after year and everyone claims he's some messiah for coming through with a big shot in 3 or 4 playoff runs out of 15 -- totally overlooking the years where Lakers didn't want to re-sign him or the years he fell on his ass and didn't help the Spurs repeat.

If a rookie is good enough, he's good enough and Murray and Bertans are good enough to compete and contribute to the Spurs come playoff time. Now their role would be reduced because Pop optimizes minutes for starters but they'd be more than able to handle any bench minutes thrown their way.

[dbestpro]

What the team lacks is passion. Very mechanical. We need a Mario Ellie. We need some players to argue with Pop and maybe each other. They need to do something to get the blood flowing.

[MaNu4Tres]

What the team lacks is passion. Very mechanical. We need a Mario Ellie. We need some players to argue with Pop and maybe each other. They need to do something to get the blood flowing.

The team lacks a fluid play maker that can not only get his own shot, but in the process of getting his own shot, he can create easier and more efficient opportunities for others. Kawhi and Aldridge are not those types of play-makers or scorers. Sure they'll have their moments here or there, but they aren't close to being consistent enough in this phase. Both are Melo type of scorers where they can create and make tough shots for themselves. Unfortunately, this makes the job a little bit easier on the defense as a unit.

This is why Murray is very important for the future moving forward.

[cd98]

Such a dumb myth. " Rookies generally disappear in the playoffs". What a terrible and dumb take.

If a rookie disappears in the playoffs its because he's not in the top 10 in the rotation or if Pop just sits him for no other reason than .. " It's not fair to the others".

If a player is good enough, he's good enough -- rookie or veteran. Now if they perform well in the short sample size of "A" playoff run -- that's another story and a by product of randomness and variance. Because at the same time, there's a lot of veterans who shit the bed or disappear in the playoffs too from time to time ( you saw it last year with a lot of vets). Robert Horry even has shit the bed on multiple occasions in the playoffs for the Spurs and Lakers. However, his career was filled with 15 years of deep playoff runs year after year and everyone claims he's some messiah for coming through with a big shot in 3 or 4 playoff runs out of 15 -- totally overlooking the years where Lakers didn't want to re-sign him or the years he fell on his ass and didn't help the Spurs repeat.

If a rookie is good enough, he's good enough and Murray and Bertans are good enough to compete and contribute to the Spurs come playoff time. Now their role would be reduced because Pop optimizes minutes for starters but they'd be more than able to handle any bench minutes thrown their way. Well, it's not as dumb as you think. Sure the Spurs have a history of playing veterans over rookies, even talented rookies (see Tiago Splitter and George Hill), but not always (see Tony Parker except when he got benched for Terry Porter in one of the Laker games to bad effect). But teams in general take that stance in the NBA unless it is a wonder rookie like Tim Duncan, but there aren't many of those and most of them are on lottery teams and don't even make it to the playoffs. Teams go deeper during the regular season, which gives guys like Bertans and Murray minutes, but in the playoffs, teams shorten their rotations because they can't afford turnovers (like getting pocket picked as has happened several times to Murray and Bertans mental mistakes on passing the ball under pressure). That means that the rookies are good enough to play in the 10 to 11 man rotation for the regular season, but not that 8-9 man rotation for the playoffs. Supposedly the 10-11 man rotation has reduced the veterans minutes so they can play heavier minutes in the playoffs.

I don't know if Bertans and Murray are good enough to have consistent roles on the team even during the regular season. I guess we'll see if they earn more minutes after the all-star break or if there are more injuries. I hope they do play big playoff minutes if only to show that the grass isn't always greener. You may love Murray and Bertans today, but you have a relatively small sample size. The more minutes they get doesn't always equate into more productivity and may give greater diminishing returns than the veterans that you prefer to be on the bench. In fact, you don't even know if those rookies are outperforming veterans in practice. At this point, they are beloved because of the unknown. They could both get playoff minutes and turn into a disaster and blow a winnable series, which is more likely given their lack of playoff experience, then they are to win a playoff series. With the veterans, you know what you have, with rookies, you don't really know.

[Old School 44]

Unfortunately, Spurs rookies are on a 3-4 year plan. The Spurs hold them back somewhat in relation to their rookie contract. Not so much in development, but showcasing them during games. The exception in recent time is Kawhi, because he was that good, and they knew they were going to keep him at all cost.

As much as PATFO professed their love for George Hill, they didn't want to pay him the money they knew he'd get offered after his rookie deal was up, so they traded him away for a fresh rookie contract. They also held back Splitter and Mahinmi, and now Bertans and Murray.

[SAGirl]

Unfortunately, Spurs rookies are on a 3-4 year plan. The Spurs hold them back somewhat in relation to their rookie contract. Not so much in development, but showcasing them during games. The exception in recent time is Kawhi, because he was that good, and they knew they were going to keep him at all cost.

As much as PATFO professed their love for George Hill, they didn't want to pay him the money they knew he'd get offered after his rookie deal was up, so they traded him away for a fresh rookie contract. They also held back Splitter and Mahinmi, and now Bertans and Murray.
Interesting take.

Good thread overall so I am bumping.

[Ice009]

If we're not going to win the Championship, why not play the young guys/rookies? Does Pop really think we have a chance with Parker, Mills, Green against the elite guards in the west? You gotta be able to provide some sort of resistance defensively.

[Old School 44]

Interesting take.

Good thread overall so I am bumping.
I forget what year, but there were a string of games where Mahinmi played well, similar to Murray. You just knew he'd be given a chance in the rotation. Just 8-12 minutes in the guts of the game. BUT instead, it was followed up with a string of "DNP Coaches Decision". No explanation, no questions from the local media, nothing. There was a thread about it, some said Ian was foul prone and made too many defensive mistakes. Also, others were saying the local media wouldn't ask Pop because he would curtail their access or worse, get them fired. I'm not saying Murray or Bertans are going to be franchise saviors or anything, who knows. I just think their play warrants more time.

[UZER]

Unfortunately, Spurs rookies are on a 3-4 year plan. The Spurs hold them back somewhat in relation to their rookie contract. Not so much in development, but showcasing them during games. The exception in recent time is Kawhi, because he was that good, and they knew they were going to keep him at all cost.

As much as PATFO professed their love for George Hill, they didn't want to pay him the money they knew he'd get offered after his rookie deal was up, so they traded him away for a fresh rookie contract. They also held back Splitter and Mahinmi, and now Bertans and Murray.

Thats damn stupid. Let's keep these guys in hiding for three years while Kawhi and Aldridge waste 3 years of there prime.

[ElNono]

The whole 'pecking order' thing is not totally untrue, IMO. But you could also argue that whatever rook that has really shown to be a special talent has been fast-tracked (Kawhi and Manu come to mind).

[Old School 44]

Thats damn stupid. Let's keep these guys in hiding for three years while Kawhi and Aldridge waste 3 years of there prime.
I agree. TD needed a shot-blocking/athletic big to play next to him, but they opted not to play/develop on the court a decent one in Mahinmi.